ep6 Kurt Dahl is lawyerdrummer

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think if there's one thingthat everyone can use more of,
it's free legal advice.
So, disclaimer about thisepisode, I totally did not ply
our guest for free legal advice.
I don't want to turn you away ifthat's what you're hoping for.
I.
But you're gonna find outanyway, right?
I'm not sure.
The expectation was if you bringa lawyer on your podcast that

(00:23):
you're going to attempt to getsome free legal advice from
them, or that you will carefullydisguise your leading questions
to sneak out some free legaladvice.
Okay?
I might have done that a littlebit and honestly, kind of hoping
the game respects game here.
but Kurt Dahl is anentertainment lawyer by day.

(00:44):
Drummer in the Canadian rockband, One Bad Son by night.
Yes, it sounds a littlesuperhero"ish" Kurt references
Superman.
But we all know this isDaredevil, right?
Like this is totally Daredevilif the lawyer by day swapped the
suit and the case notes fordrumsticks and ripped jeans
instead of a skin tight red bodysuit with cute horns.

(01:06):
Yeah, he's the rock and rollDaredevil, and I really hope he
agrees.
One Bad Son recently celebrated20 years accomplishing five top
10 singles and a number one inCanada, and a long list of
touring and appearances.
Opening for the biggest names inrock and roll.
Rolling Stones being all youneed to say there.

(01:28):
He has been practicing law since2010 and balanced both demanding
careers alongside building afamily with his wife in
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
My name is Glen Erickson.
This is almost famous enough.
Thanks for spending your timewith us.
This is Kurt Dahl.

Glen Erickson (02:00):
Well, first of all, Kurt Dahl, uh, thank you so
much for spending some time, uh,with me here and in some
conversation.
And this is our first timeactually.
meeting.

Kurt Dahl (02:10):
Yeah.

that's really, that's really cool to me.
I've known about you for, uh,quite a while.
I think maybe going back to2016, I'm thinking maybe when
you, um, I think when you becamepresident of Sask Music, the
provincial association, I was aformer, past president, past
chair of Alberta Music.
So, and stayed involved.

(02:32):
So, so little common ground tostart on.
And, I know that that's when, Istarted sort of.
being more aware and knowing whoyou are.
But, yeah, I appreciate thetime.
I'm doing this podcast about thelife pursuing the dream and all
the different things it lookslike.
And, and I knew when I was firstconceiving a list of guests, I

(02:52):
knew I wanted to talk to you forobvious reasons.
You've done a lot of great work.
You've done a lot of great workas a lawyer in the entertainment
business.
And obviously you've been anactive musician with a career,
uh, which is, uh, incrediblyunique.
And so I'm sure lots of peoplecome and ask you to talk about
that, but, uh, I just think youmost likely have some great

(03:14):
behind the veil insights, foreverybody about the business and
if it's okay, we'll justorganically see where that goes.

Kurt Dahl (03:22):
Yeah, I love it, man.
And honestly, yeah, I, I dofeel, I feel lucky that I get to
do sort of both have a foot inboth careers, you know?
And, um, yeah, I don't take itfor granted, that's for sure.

Yeah, well, let's, let's start.
Right at that point with youadopting the moniker and running
with lawyer drummer, you know,which is, you know, your social
handles, I think it's so great,right?
Because I mean, there's lots ofpeople who might have spent the
majority of their adult careersin a duality.
Maybe there's a plumber painter,but.

(03:54):
They don't probably, you knowwhat I mean?
Like grab the handle orsomething and run with it that
way.
And that's, uh, the on the nosething has really worked, for
you.
So I'm, I'm definitely going tobe interested in seeing what
that has looked like over thecourse of time.
with where you're at right now,entering 2025, what, which side

(04:16):
of those two is, uh, grabbingthe greater share?

Kurt Dahl (04:23):
you know, honestly, I think now at this stage in my
life, the le the lawyer sidetakes up more time, right?
I mean more, more bandwidth.
But that doesn't mean it's.
I get less enjoyment orfulfillment from the music side.
Cause to me, you know, the musicside, I guess the good way to
put it is it takes up less of myoverall time, but gives me so

(04:44):
much joy, you know what I mean?
So it's like, uh, I'm so luckythat I still have that.
Right.
So for example, I mean, to goback a few years, um, you know,
in say 20, well, probably thetime you heard of.
Heard of me the first time 2016around that time.
I mean, one bad son was touringlike eight, nine months of the
year.
Um, you know, we had, we're, Ijust lost memory on Facebook.

(05:07):
Like we were the ninth mostplayed band, uh, on Canadian
rock radio.
So we were, that's a reflectionof just how much we were
touring, right.
How much work we're putting inat that point.
And this is, so I guess, yeah,2016, let's say, I was, you
know, burning the candles,burning the candle at both ends
and gone all the time.
And, and, you know, while Iloved it, I mean, music was just

(05:30):
the, the, the, the main focus ortook up more of the bandwidth.
It's also like incredibly,incredibly demanding, right, to
be on the road that much.
And, it's hard enough if you're,if you don't have like a family
at home, but, but I do.
So, um, yeah.
So I guess fast forward to now,like I would not want, I would
not want to be on the road ninemonths of the year, even if

Yeah,

Kurt Dahl (05:52):
if things were going amazing, I still.
You know, I love my kids toomuch.
I love my wife too much.
So,

especially knowing the ebb and flow, right?
Like, so the music career ispeaks and valleys and cycles,
right?
Whereas, you know, a full timejob, like, well, any full time
job, I would consider,especially a lawyer, work is
pretty steady, pretty steady,offering of work.
So, I can see, How that gets,you said, like, let's jump back.

(06:21):
So I'm going to ask to jumpwell, before I jump all the way
back, cause I do want to jumpall the way back with you and
then start going.
But, Let's just go back to thename Lawyer Drummer really
quick.
So how did you decide, start, Imean, I'm sure you knew you were
living, you've been living in aduality since, you know, since
you started pursuing all of thisand deciding that you could, you
could actually pull this off.

(06:43):
So when did that, when did youdecide you needed to sort of
hang on that brand?
I'm just really curious aboutit.
Yep.

Kurt Dahl (06:52):
enough, in the early days, I tried to keep the two
sort of identities separate fromeach other and keep them sort of
secret from each other almost.
Right.
I didn't want people because atthe time I was, I was, I hadn't,
I was a nobody on both sides ofthose equations.
I wasn't proven as a lawyer andwe hadn't, I had, I wasn't
proven as a musician.
We hadn't had our first realsuccess yet.

(07:13):
So I didn't let people in thelegal world know that I was a
musician and in the music world,I didn't want to tell people I
was a lawyer.
Cause you know, to mostmusicians, lawyers aren't very
cool, you know?
So, So I kind of kept themsecret from each other and then
both kind of ironically, Iguess, started to happen around
the same time, started to createa buzz around the same time that

(07:35):
was around, I mean, I guess 2012we had our first breakthrough
with Scarecrows as our firstsingle.
and then around that time, I hadbeen working my ass off in
Vancouver as an entertainmentlawyer, and, you know, I was
just living and breathing themusic biz, and I was obsessed
with entertainment law andbecoming the best entertainment
lawyer in the country, so Istarted to get a name for myself

(07:57):
there.
And then I was trying to keepthe two identities separate, but
people are like, Hey, aren't youthe guy that, you know, we just
interviewed for this about yourband and now you're, we're doing
this thing about the lawyerside.
And so I just, at one pointthere was an article written in,
in Saskatoon and it was by alate great dear friend of mine
named Cam Fuller, and he was ajournalist here in Saskatoon and

(08:18):
he wrote this article and hesort of coined the term.
It's, it's lawyer drummer,almost like a, like a superhero,
you know?
Um, And so, so myself and theband and my wife had a good
chuckle.
It's like, Hey, lawyer drummer,you know, it sounds like, you
know, like it has that ClarkKent sort of Superman vibe.
So then I just like, you knowwhat, I'm just going to stop
pretending to be something.

(08:39):
I'm not, I'm both those things.
Right.
I'm.
Like you said, we often havedualities.
Sometimes we embrace them,sometimes we don't, but that's
who I am.
I'm a lawyer who also is a longhaired rock and roll drummer.
Um, and I happen to be reallypassionate about both.

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (08:57):
I embraced it and that was probably around that
time, like 2012

Okay.

Kurt Dahl (09:02):
yeah.

Yeah, that authentic admission is, I think
that's pretty significant to alot of things we talk about with
developing artists, right?
Or people coming up in the waywe would like to give advice.
Now, Because you're right, I, I,there's lots of opportunities to
be unsure about that, but Iguess part of my whole passion
project of creating this podcastand trying to pull the veil back

(09:26):
is making it so obvious andclear how there is no one same
path that all of us follow tokeep our feet on the ground.
In the music business when welove it so much.
And, you know, and, and you sortof just gave a perfect example
of that.
I, I'm going to be completelyhonest with you.
There was this part of me thatreally, there's a nerd and a

(09:47):
geographical history, part of methat wondered if there was any
impetus that you needed to sortof set yourself apart, a lawyer
drummer, because, I honestly hadyou confused with Kurt Dahl.

Kurt Dahl (10:00):
Ha

And I, I know about your reaction.
You've heard this so many times.

Kurt Dahl (10:04):
other Kurtal,

What are the F and Ods of a Kurt Dahl, but with
an E at the end?
So nobody would know the silentE at the end of his from Regina,
Saskatchewan.
So I, I spent most of my teenageand college years in Regina.
So that's a significantdevelopmental upbringing out of,
Regina.
So, and I was like a massivelimb lifter and new

(10:27):
pornographers guy.
So in the early 2000s, so veryfamiliar with the name.
So when I first started hearingyour name, I literally, of
course.
Assumed that Kurt Dahl, thedrummer from Limblifter, I mean,
it's a drummer too, like, likehow, like, what are the odds?
You're both from the prairies.
You're both drummers.
Um, I just thought that wascrazy.

Kurt Dahl (10:47):
And both moved to Vancouver.
Cause so I like, so

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Kurt Dahl (10:53):
like three multiple layers of confusion.
And I remember, and yeah, andgood point.
I mean, looking back, I didn't,the lawyer drummer alias, it had
nothing to do with that becausepeople still, I want people to
still know my name, right.
Cause people,

Mm

Kurt Dahl (11:08):
people, as soon as they go to my page, it's like
lawyer drummer is Kurt doll,whatever.
But, but it's a good point, likemaybe subconsciously, but it's a
quick funny story.
in the early days in Vancouver,again, through my website,
through my socials, I alwaysencourage people to reach out
and call me or email me, youknow, and.
Which resulted, especially inthe early days, getting some
really weird calls.
And I used to foolishly pickthem up at all hours to be like,

(11:31):
to

hmm.
Ha

Kurt Dahl (11:33):
I always wanted to give back and help out.
So it was all good.
But I remember I got this callone time.
It was like, you know, 9 PM on aFriday.
My wife and I were having dinnerat, our apartment in Vancouver.
And I get this call and he, he'slike, Hey, Curt, like I, I got,
I'm a musician.
I got this questions.
And I said, I'm a big fan ofyou.
And And I love your band andstuff.
So I'm, I'm thinking he knowsone bad son and I give him like

(11:57):
probably way too, way too muchof my time, but I gave him like
maybe half an hour of free legaladvice and then at the end of
the closet.
Yeah, man, thanks so much.
That's so helpful.
And he's like, do you rememberthe time that you and I did acid
back in 89?

ha ha ha.

Kurt Dahl (12:13):
And I

Oh my gosh.

Kurt Dahl (12:14):
was, I was eight years old in 89.
I think, I think you've got meconfused with the other.
So, there's been many calls likethat where people, yeah,
obviously get the wrong Kurt.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a real pain in
the ass for anybody, I'm sure.
But you seem to, by yourdemeanor have, uh, rolled it off
your shoulder pretty easily, uh,Or at least that's how or or
you're really good at putting ona face and I brought it up and
you're going to go home to yourwife.
But

Kurt Dahl (12:46):
and, and I'm a fan.
Like I'm a fan, like, like yousaid, I was a big limb lifter
fan, agent electric, even newpornographers.
So and I have met a couple oftimes.
We, we got a photo together.
This was again, back when Ilived in van at some cool, like
music venue, I forget what itwas called, you know, the
railway club or something, but,um,

that's the classic mover.
Yeah,

Kurt Dahl (13:08):
So we're there and people are like, it's the two
Kurt dolls.
Let's get a photo, you know?
And, he was cool about it.
And he's, he, he, he saidsomething interesting.
He's like, what'd he say?
He's like, people keep asking,calling me for legal advice.
Yeah.

starts for you in like 2004, right?
Which is you're, you're, you'reIt looks like you got your
undergrad in 2004 and you startwriting songs with your buddies
and, and deciding you're goingto start making music under
that, you know, formation, whichI'm sure you had been playing
drums for a long time beforehandand maybe had some different

(13:49):
iterations and attempts with,with, with people, but that's
sort of when everything Beginsto take off for you, right?
Like 2004 South Katoon was thatyou had your undergrad.
I mean, it's, it's interestingtiming.
I guess the question for mealways is, were you thinking
what was, what was the end goal?

(14:09):
What did you think was going tohappen?
Was it like, I need to make therockstar thing happen.
And this is a, I guess a lot ofpeople use the term fallback, or
were you always convinced youwere going to try to like grow
both things at the same time?
Or what was.
What was the focus kind of inthat real young, like, initial
stage?

Kurt Dahl (14:28):
Yeah, good question, man.
I mean, honestly, if I'm beingtotally honest, like, yeah, I,
I, I wanted to become a rockstar for sure.
you know, and we always jokeShane and I in one bad sound,
like we always, we started in ohfour, we thought we'd have like
a record deal by like, oh five,you know, we thought we'd a
major

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (14:46):
by oh six, you know, and, we wanted to, we wrote
songs that, thought, you know,we're meant for arenas and
eventually we got there.
It just took us, you know, 15years.
But, um, know, and I think thelaw thing, I wouldn't say it was
a backup.
I mean, you know, I read so manybiographies of all my idols, all
the rock star biographies, and.

(15:07):
The common was they all gotscrewed over by someone in a
suit.
You know, they got screwed overby someone a contract.
Right.
And so I did, I do recallclearly, and it's funny what you
remember, what you don't, but Iremember thinking if I could
become like a long haired lawyerwho represented and saved all

(15:27):
the musicians from those shittycontracts, That'd be a pretty
cool career.
I didn't think about the money.
I didn't really care.
I mean, I didn't come from moneyand I was naively, you know,
that, that was not a drivingfactor.
It was just like, it just seemedlike a noble thing to do and a
cool thing to do.
And of course, fast forward.
Now I am that guy, which is kindof.

(15:48):
Cool.
In a lot of ways that itactually played out that way,
but really it was like, and alittle bit selfishly too, like I
want to make sure my band didn'tget screwed over.
So I was going to become alawyer.
I never intended to become aregular lawyer.
Like, and I always joke that I'mnot, I don't hang out with other
lawyers.
It's not my, you know, my, mypeople are the music industry

(16:08):
and entertainment industry.
People, if I go to lawyerevents, I just, you know, just
like, Get me out of here.
You know what I mean?
and I don't know anything aboutfamily law or, you know, um,
property law, like, you know,buying a house, that kind of
law.
I don't know that stuff.
It's not my passion.
It was my goal was always to dothis, you know, because This is

(16:30):
what I know and what I love.
So, and then, but again, Icould, I've imagined that, guess
I couldn't have imagined that Icould have this balance in this,
like, I love what I do.
I absolutely love it.
And I love that I can still playone bad son 20 years in, like, I
never would have guessed that I,you know, even back then I was a

(16:51):
dreamer, but I, I couldn't havepicked this outcome if I, if I
tried, you

So were you a really smart kid?
Were you the high grades thing?
Was it that version of astereotype?
Was that true for you?
For someone who goes on to lawschool or at least, I guess the
appearance of.
The path straight from yourundergrad to sort of staying
right on that, that path wasthat just, were you just always,

(17:16):
you know, well educated, likegood in school type guy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (17:26):
so the LSAT is like, yeah, the test you write to get
into law school or to try to getinto law school, right?
These days, so many kids aretrying to get into law school
and you have to, it's a lot ofpressure to write the LSAT.
And I know this because peoplecall me and I give them advice.
so I, but for me, I wrote it ona whim.
It was like some summer I wasworking, for a company called

(17:47):
weed man.
I was doing lawn care around,around the city.
I was the weed man, which withlong hair, you could imagine the
jokes that I got.
But, um, know, and I was like,I'm just gonna go.
I, I, I took a business lawcourse in commerce and it was, I
just found law to be superintriguing, you know, and I was
kind of bored with commercealready.
I was like, I guess I'm not abusinessman.

(18:08):
So I literally got one summerday on a whim.
I mean, I signed up ahead oftime, but I went and wrote the
LSAT, did very, like next to nopreparation for it and had zero
pressure going into it.
And then as you can imagine, Idid quite well.
Otherwise I wouldn't be here.
I wouldn't have applied.
So I did very well on the LSATand then I was like, okay, I

(18:29):
guess this is a sign.
You know, I was very, I was verykind of hippie ish, And just
like, this is a sign from the,from the universe, I should do
this.
So, but to your question, Imean, was I a smart kid?
I mean, I think that there's, ifI applied myself, yes, I say
that because, you know, it'sjust a fun little aside, but
like in grade eight, I was like,you know, top of the class kind

(18:51):
of thing when I got to highschool.
And.
Got in with, you know, the wrongcrowd or a crowd that didn't
care about school and marks.
And they were kind of like arough crowd, but I thought they
were cool.
And my marks went from like hereto just like, they just
plummeted and my parents arelike, what the hell is going on,
Kurt?
So I guess my point is, and thena year I realized these kids

(19:12):
aren't actually very cool andactually not very nice.
So I found a new crowd thatactually were good people and
cared about school.
So my marks went right back upand is now as an A student.
So.
The only say this because as adad, and I guess just to just as
a human, I think who you chooseas your friends and who you
choose to be around with as akid or as an adult has such a

(19:34):
huge, huge impact on your life,you know, so, um, I mean, so I
went from a to like D and waslike, my parents said, what's
going on?
And really, It was just thepeople I was hanging out with.
so yeah, you

Were you pursuing music back then at the same
time?
Was that a developing passion inhigh school already?

Kurt Dahl (19:54):
know, interestingly enough, I was very much, and
then maybe you've found thiswith other guests.
It's like, I was very much alate bloomer.
I didn't pick up the drumsticksuntil grade 12.
And which, as you know, like somany musician friends of mine,
you know, their parents got theminto it.
They started playing guitar atage like six or seven.
or there's like the childprodigies who start even

(20:15):
earlier.
And that was not me.
I was not the cool musician.
I was a big music fan, allthrough high school and Pearl
Jam, Nirvana, Soundgardenchanged my life.
and I, I credit those bands forme becoming musician.
And I guess by extension, anentertainment lawyer, but I was
not, I was not a musician.
I just had long hair, similar towhat I have now and a pearl jam

(20:37):
shirt on all through highschool.
And then grade 12, I was like, Iwant to just be, be a musician
now.
And I picked up the drumsticksand guess what?
I was shitty at first.
So it took me a lot of time towork at it.
So, you know, by the time OneBad Son formed in 2004, I just
started to sort of hone my chopsas a drummer.
It wasn't like I was, doing itfor 20 years, you know.

So you really kind of built, you built that
skill out with that band.
Do you probably, I, I'm going tomake an assumption that that's
perhaps how you look back andfeel like it.
That's when it really, that'swhen it really clicked in and
you were able to sort of growyour, which is kind of a cool
thing.
You can tell me whether this isthe way it worked out for you.
Cause I know it's worked out.
As a musician, for me, this wayis when that sort of syncs up

(21:20):
like that, you have a muchhigher potential to develop your
own style, which is, you know, Ithink an interesting point of
conversation amongst musicians,right?
Whether you just mimickedsomebody and then just tried to
be known as the great version orthe great all around drummer,
like whether you want to be astudio or whether you want a.

(21:42):
To be known for particularstyle, when I click in with a
band at a time, I feel like thenyou start playing that.
And you don't try to beeverything else.
Is that, did that happen for youthat way?

Kurt Dahl (21:56):
Yeah, totally.
It's a, it's a great point.
I mean, I was forced to createmy own style because you know,
one bad son and again, when westarted out, it wasn't like we
had, it took us a while to findour sound, but it wasn't like
one bad son was exactly the typeof music that I was listening to
or that I worshiped, you know,like for me,

Mm hmm.

Kurt Dahl (22:16):
Number one and two.
So the who and Zeppelin, I lovethat stuff.
Right.
But one bad son was definitelynot that right.
So especially early years of ourband, it was a lot heavier.
So then it, it forced me tocreate my own style, which is,
which was a good thing.
Right.
If, if we had just.
If my, if my band mates were allhuge Zeppelin fans like me, we
would've ended up sounding likeGreta Van Fleet, you know?

hmm.

Kurt Dahl (22:38):
thankfully they weren't, they were in more
heavier stuff.
So then we had sort of a mix oflike Zeppelin meets Sound Garden
or, the who mi with

Mm hmm.

Kurt Dahl (22:46):
or whatever, right?
So it was like those seventiesinfluences, which I loved mixed
with a heavier sort of ninetiesgrunge vibe.
And then the end result was mysort of heavy hitting style,
which

Which is where the good stuff always comes
from, don't you think?
Like, maybe not solely, but whenyou hear or get the back story
on people and you see two sortof upbringings or influences
collide and then see what comesout of it, Collaboration like
that always seems to be a bigthing.

(23:18):
So, so 2010, you guys are likemessing around from 2004, 2010,
accepting that you didn't havethe major label deal in the
first, you know, 18 months.
but you keep at it, right?
So you're keeping at it.
And 2010 is when I think a lotof things Seem to happen for
you, between, moving toVancouver, signing with 604,

(23:42):
passing the bar, which is allagain, keeping that balance
going, but all like, that's alot of big stuff in one year,
did the grind.
Yeah.
Between like.
Did those six years feel like agrind?
Were there the moments of maybethis isn't happening for us?

(24:02):
Or was there a straight, thatbeautiful pie eyed rockstar
dream belief that kept you onthis trajectory?
What did, what did the grindlook like through those six
years?

Kurt Dahl (24:12):
no, that's, that's a, and that's, uh, I think people
often avoid like the hard yearswhen they, when they tell their
sort of success stories, youknow, or their origin stories.
Right.
I mean, but you're right.
Those six years.
And I guess I would extend thatto eight because we kind of
broke through in 2012.
So those first eight years as aband.
Um, and not to mention obviouslybeside the band, there's my, my

(24:34):
personal, my, my personal life,you know, my real life.
Uh, those eight, those eightyears were super tough.
Like we, you know, we wereliterally, mentioned, we're
trying to find our sound, we'realso trying to find our
audience, you know, and so we'retouring.
We had a bit of help from somelocal agents or one agent, but
we drive like, you know, 18hours to go like Thunder Bay or

(24:55):
something and play to like

Good old right.
A passage here.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.

Kurt Dahl (25:05):
drive 18 hours, play to six people, of which hated
us.
and then the other two were likedistant relatives or something.
get paid a case, a case of beer.
Lose money, obviously, cause youhad gas and hotels and then, but
also drive home defeated, right?
Like thinking you're drivingthere with hope.
Maybe this is a great rock barthat's going to be packed with

(25:27):
people that want to find thenext big rock band.
And you get there and it's like,no, it's just horrible.
or we drive, I remember we droveone time to yeah, Southern
Alberta, kind of by, Watertonnational park, but there's like
the small town.
it was like, we played, it waslike a three nighter and three
sets a night.

(25:47):
And I sort of bluffed and said,we had all these cover songs,
which we didn't.
And so we're playing originalstoo much.
People that don't give a shitabout us.
And you know, by day, night two,we were just like, Defeated
again.
And, but it's those kinds of,then I remember the final quick
story is we played a threenighter in Regina.

(26:09):
It was a long weekend.
And again, I sort of lied andsaid, we had all these covers.
We get there and we had threenights at the venue and they
gave us three nights of hoteland our first night we play, it
was like a Thursday, let's say,and.
The crowd is non existent andthose that are there don't like
us.
we get back to the hotel thatnight and the hotel's like, you

(26:30):
don't have a room here.
And I was like, well, we have,we have a room for three nights.
And she said, no, the venuecalled and said, it's canceled.
You guys suck.
Go

Oh, oh, oh,

Kurt Dahl (26:41):
So.

harsh.

Kurt Dahl (26:43):
it's also, that's how you build character, right?
So then that's also, I got toemploy my, my burgeoning legal
skills.
I called the venue.
I said, after a lot of, um,swear words, I said, you're
putting us up for tonight, causewe're here.
It's 1.
A.
m.
We're.
So you say, fine, so we gothotels that night got up that
next morning, got our gear outof the venue, drove home and

(27:06):
again, that sense of defeat.
Now, be fair, we weren't thatgood at the time, so our songs
weren't that great, but it'sthose moments that really made
us look inward as a band and asindividuals and say, We're not,
we're not as good as whatever'son the radio right now.
Even though I didn't likeNickelback, et cetera, know, I

(27:26):
thought we were better, but weweren't at the time.
Right.
Our songs weren't good enough tobe on the radio.
So we'd sort of make thosemental leaps.
Like, how do we, even though wedon't like what's on the radio,
how can we write stuff that's soeffing catchy that radio can't
deny it.
And that took us eight years,but we eventually did it, you
know?

So let me, let me put a pin right on that one
because, that truth tellinginside of a band when you're
working with people and, and itmight be similar with, because
almost every solo artist I knowhas, you know, latched on to a
guitar player that plays othergigs with them or some musicians
or some people who are alongevery step of the way, right?

(28:04):
And.
You know, you have to have thisbelief that what I'm doing is
great, you know, but you'veprobably read the 5, 000 entry
bios for, you know, Juno awardsor Western Canadian or factor
grant submissions of, and peoplewrite their bios, like they,

(28:24):
they, they pretend like whatthey think they're going to be
right.
But they're

Kurt Dahl (28:28):
Right.
Right.

years old from like, small town, Saskatchewan.
So, it just reeks of.
All those things that makepeople a little just turn some
people off, but but you kind ofhave to have that still because
everybody who tells their storywho made it big has that in
their story still.
So you just sort of pointed thatout, right?

(28:50):
That you were like, I thinkwe're that good, but we're
obviously not that good.
So what were, what were, and Iknow that I'm asking you to pull
some thoughts out from a longtime ago, but what, what were
some of those things that werecoming out?
Do you feel that you had towrestle with, like in trying to
say maybe we're not that good?

(29:11):
What were, what was the truthand what was the direction that
you feel it gave you to work on?

Kurt Dahl (29:16):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
You're right.
I think to succeed as amusician, I guess the same would
apply if you're an actor or anysort of creative, you have to
have a little dosage of naivete.
Like, you have to of drink yourown Kool Aid to a certain
extent.
You have to believe in yourselfwhen no one else does, right?
Because whether you're, youknow, You know, whether you're

(29:36):
Tom Cruise or you're Bob Dylan,like there's a time when nobody
believes in you except you.
Maybe your parents believe inyou, but they don't know you're
going to be as big as Tom Cruiseor Bob Dylan, right?
So, there has to be, you have tobe a bit insane, I guess, as
part of it, right?
And that's why we, that's why welove great artists, you know?
Um, They have to be, you have tobe insane to do it.

(29:57):
and then, and you have to sortof create yourself, right?
Then Bob Dylan always said, it'slike, life's not about finding
yourself.
It's about creating yourself,which I love that, right?
but then you have to be able to,the, the, the, the second
ingredient, which a lot of oursdon't have is that harsh.
Sort of self analysis, right.
And being completely trying tobe objective when it comes to

(30:19):
yourself and say, you know, Imean, Bob Dylan knew he had
talent, but he knew he wasn't asgood as Woody Guthrie, his idol.
So he's like, how can I becomeas good as Woody Guthrie?
You know?
Um, and some same actors,whatever, like you, have to be
really your own harshest critic.
Right.
And so it's, it's that weirdduality of being sort of insane

(30:39):
and drinking your own Kool Aid,but also being like, How good is
the Kool Aid really?

Yeah, yeah,

Kurt Dahl (30:45):
and I think if I'm being honest, and speaking with
self awareness, I think I was, Ihad a pretty good dose of that.
Like I was like, guys, our songisn't that good.
It's got, our song is sevenminutes and it's got a 85 intro
before any, before any vocalscome in.
That's not going to work.
Just look, turn the radio on.
No one's ever going to playthis.

(31:06):
So I think

yeah, yeah.

Kurt Dahl (31:12):
you know, sort of brought that real self analysis
element our songwriting.
and then, so once you're aware,a good way to do it is look at,
look at your idols, you know,and, and compare, right?
So again, Bob Dylan and WoodyGuthrie, for us, it was like One
Bad Son comparing it to LedZeppelin.
It's like, listen, record,nothing compares to, uh, you

(31:35):
know, Whole Lot Of Love.
So let's.
let's do better.
Let's practice more.
And so for One Bad Son, I meanas a band, I mean we just We all
moved into a house together.
It was like this decrepit,should have been condemned old
house that had black mold in thewalls.
And we lived there and jammedlike literally seven days a

(31:57):
week.
We just jammed.
And, It's, it was great to be,it was a great way to become
better songwriters andmusicians.
It was a bad way to have anysort of balance in life.
Cause that's all we did was playin the band.
and I guess, I mean, similarthing applies on the legal side.
I mean, I poured myself into it.
Like I wanted to become the bestentertainment lawyer in the
country.
So I read everything about themusic industry.

(32:19):
I read every book.
I, I, you know, read everybiography.
So I understood what's happenedin the industry and blah, blah.
and eventually, like anythingyou put in your 10, 000 hours
and, and the results come.

Yeah, I that's amazing.
well, then let's look from.
2017, which again, I sort oftongue in cheek to the right of
passage, like making that longdrive through Thunder Bay and
Sault Ste.
Marie and, Oh, I forgot the nameof those venues.
It's every band.
I know that's made those tripsand knows that's the worst band
house above a venue.

(32:52):
I think it's Either Sault Ste.
Marie or Sudbury.
Maybe the townhouse in Sudburyhas the worst band room in
history.
but you know, from an outsiderperspective, you look like
you're on that rite of passagefor Canadian rock bands, right?
Between 2010 and 17 of, of,We're going to do a little more
than the last time.
We're going to play a few moreshows than the last time.

(33:13):
We're going to try and get a fewmore people out and we're just
incrementally running the samecycle and the same circuit and
just keep doing it and hustlingand dreaming and, and connecting
with people and all of thatthing.
So that's what it looks like.
Your trajectory is, is that anaccurate assumption?
Is that how you felt it washappening for you on the inside?

(33:34):
Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (33:39):
it.
I mean, We didn't get sort ofany breaks, you know, um, know,
some bands like, Oh, you getpicked up or song goes and that
nowadays the song goes viral orsome other bands as we're taking
you across doing a big tour,you're the opening act, or you
get a bunch of grant funding,which we never really got.
you know, whatever, like justdifferent, everyone's got some

(34:01):
sort of moment for us.
It was eventually just getting abunch of hits on the radio, but.
We did, we earned every fan thehard way, you know, like touring
the country.
So we had, you know, a van andtrailer, we'd go back and forth
and back and forth, you know,and, and again, like the, you
know, I'm not saying that tocomplain.
It's that's how we have suchhardcore fans, every fan we

(34:22):
earned like by melting theirface in a live setting.
Right.
So, and then we got really good.
at performing live.
And, so that was, you're right.
From 2010 to 2017, I mean, thatwas just nonstop touring.
I remember one time we, again,we never got to the bus level.
Cause to get to a bus level, asyou know, costs a lot of money.
You gotta be making a lot ofmoney to have afford a bus.

(34:44):
we never got there.
We could have maybe towards theend, but then it would have made
no money on tour.
So we'd go on tour, be gone fortwo months and then, Have
nothing to show for it except wewere in a bus so, but I remember
oftentimes doing like want tojust get home after tour is
done.
So we finished off one year, onetour on the east coast.
It was like Halifax final showand we saw when we're living in

(35:06):
Vancouver at the time.
And so we're like, let's justget home to our girls into our
own beds.
So let's just drive nonstop.
What would we take turns?
Of course, there's four of usand we just two hour shifts.
So the driver and the shotgun,obviously stays awake to make
sure the driver is safe and thetwo guys in the back and lay
down on the bench, the twobenches and sleep.

(35:28):
we did that.
So it's a two hour shift.
So you do a full cycle and thatyou've driven eight hours.
we did that and we just didnonstop from Halifax to
Vancouver, which I mean, youcould Google map it.
I'm not sure how many hours itsays, but.
It was a

That's ridiculous.

Kurt Dahl (35:43):
Yeah.
It

We used to, we used to nonstop it, Edmonton to
Vancouver, like a 14 hour,whatever you know what I mean?
Or one time I remember leavingthe.
The Western Canadian MusicAwards and Brandon and, and
deadheading it through the nightto Edmonton.
I mean, that felt crazy.
I can't even imagine all the wayfrom Halifax.

(36:04):
I mean, that first eight hoursrotation, you probably would
feel like we haven't even gottenit anywhere yet.

Kurt Dahl (36:10):
And so it says

that's legendary, right?
Like, does anybody do thatanymore?
Does anybody even do thatanymore?

Kurt Dahl (36:16):
I

Right.

Kurt Dahl (36:17):
hope they comment, but so if I

Oh man.

Kurt Dahl (36:19):
it's actually cool if you map it, cause it really does
show it's literally, I mean,aside from Newfoundland or, you
know, the island, like it'sreally is coast to coast and a
lot of that's through the U S soyou're on the interstate.
So it's a bit, the, the better

I was going to ask, did you, did you skip the
Thunder Bay up and around

Kurt Dahl (36:37):
it.

Detroit

Kurt Dahl (36:39):
a,

and

Kurt Dahl (36:39):
that, that

yeah,

Kurt Dahl (36:40):
day.
So it says 56 hours and that'snonstop, but I felt like I'm
sure we have to stop for gasevery two hours and stop for to
stretch out and change yourposition.
So probably end up taking usprobably 70 hours straight.
So that's what three full days,nonstop

did you ever get hassles at the border?
Like a lot of bands have a lotof stories because you've got a
trailer behind you, you can'thide all that shit in your merch
and they're like, you're cominghere to play a show for secret.
And I've heard a lot of storiesthat way.
Did you ever, and just thatinnocent, we're just trying to
cut, we're just trying to cutsome time off of our trip.

(37:18):
You never had that issue.

Kurt Dahl (37:20):
not too bad.
I mean, I always made sure thatwe were at all of our ducks and
oaks.
I knew that I would screw usover.
I remember one time our, our,our singer had like a belt that
had like bullets on it.
Like it was like a, like, youknow, just a cool rock and roll
belt made of bullets, you know?
And they're like, do you haveany guns or ammo?
And we're like, no.
and they, they just were, youknow, it's luck of the draw when

(37:43):
it comes to whatever agent youget.
And usually they were great.
one of them, one time one guywas like, I love you guys as a
band, which I was like theultimate, you know, we've got a
full pass, you

Oh my God.
Yeah,

Kurt Dahl (37:53):
no, no, no full, no cavity searches, you know?
Um, and, but this, this othertime is like, this guy was just
in a bad mood or was bored orwhatever.
But so he, he tore apart, toreapart everything in the van and
the trailer.
And then we have to put it allback in, of course, and organize
it again, which is a pain in theass.
But he found this belt that hadbullets on it.

(38:13):
And he's like, you told methere's no ammo here.
I was like, dude, I was at thispoint, I was just so,
frustrated.
I was like, try, try to putthose bullets in a gun and see
what happens, right?
Like they're, they're, they'restitched

yeah, yeah.

Kurt Dahl (38:26):
the belt and they're not even real, but like they're
old, whatever.
But anyway, so we got kind ofbusted for that.
They're like, who had thebullets?
You know, we all kind of freakedout.
And then when they showed us thebelt, we had a good laugh, but
you know, that's the only timeever.
The time has been great.
Although I'm sure it's differentnow in soon to be Trump's
America.
I'm sure it's going to be just apain in the ass even more, but,

(38:47):
that's, that's a whole otherpodcast, you know?

Yeah, that's very, very true.
So, well, if there was ever agood time, though, to have the
lawyer in the band, you can seewhere that'd be valuable.
Have your ducks in a row, likeyou said, for

Kurt Dahl (39:01):
Yeah,

crossing, stuff like that.
so that's what was going on withthe band.
So what's happening with KurtDahl during this time?
Are you, is it still feel like asteady trajectory of your, your
law career and practicing?
Are you married at this point?
What, and you know, now you havea new set of future aspirations

(39:24):
and, and that stuff plays in.
So deeply, and I don't know ifyou ever had this experience
before you answer, but did youever come across people who
like, didn't believe you were, Idon't know what the right word
is.
Didn't believe that you werelike, all in maybe is the word
or didn't believe that you couldpull both of those things off.

(39:44):
I asked because I didn't startthe iteration of a touring band
for me.
Didn't start till I was 33 yearsold and I You know, and I had my
second child, you know, shortlyafter that, within that time,
and I'll never forget sittingon, uh, sitting in the booth
alive with Grant Lawrence whenhe was doing Radio 3, to promote

(40:05):
our second record coming out,and he kept wanting to ask
questions about, Me trying topull off being a full time dad
and at this age and now justtrying to break a band, you
know, across Canada type thing.
So, I would get those questions.

Kurt Dahl (40:19):
Right.
He, he

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (40:20):
back to it.

Yeah.
They just, people get stumped onit and I would often get told,
I'll never forget also sittingwith a potential, I was trying
to, you know, talk to someoneabout signed and, they, they
didn't think that we were.
You know, for whatever reason,you met people in those
positions, make their guesses.
They didn't see the signs thatwe're all in because we're

(40:43):
still, we haven't given up ourcareers.
We haven't essentiallysacrificed everything worth any,
any meaning in our lives formusic.
And so they weren't willing tojump on, on that.
And I'm curious about your owndevelopment of being married, a
relationship, a career, like alawyer, what your experience was
trying to break a life in musicthat way.

(41:04):
Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.

Kurt Dahl (41:08):
at the end of the day, I've always been someone in
the States back to when I was akid, like no one could tell me.
What to do, you know what Imean?
I don't like being told what Ican't do, especially.
and I imagine that's a commontrait of, of you might
interview.
you know, for me, it's like, ifsomeone said, you know, you
can't be married and be in aband, or you can't be faithful

(41:28):
and be in a band, which that'salso part of the thing.
Or if you like, or if you can't,you can't be a lawyer and be in
a bad, I was just like, F you,I'll do what the hell I want.
I'm Kurt Dahl, you know?
so I was happily married and itdoesn't mean it doesn't come
without work.
You have to work to be like inany relationship, but I would
see guys out on the road.

(41:49):
Who I knew had a wife or evenkids at home.
Maybe, you know, cheating ontheir wives and stuff.
And I just like, I, I, it's therock and roll cliche.
And I just, it was not, I wasnever going to, I always said do
one or the other, like, youknow, if you're, if you're going
to be, married and then we goout and cheat on your girl, when
you're on tour, you know, Don'tget married in the first place,
dude.
You know?
and then the same would apply onthe lawyer side.

(42:11):
People are like, well, you can'treally, you can't be a lawyer
and a musician.
And I'd be like, don't tell mewhat I can't do.
I mean, I think there issomething to be said.
Like I remember, You know, LouReed once said like the best
artists are ones that have nobackup plan.
They go all in.
And, and I love Lou Reed.
And I agree with almosteverything he said, but, in this

(42:33):
situation, I'd say he's wrong.
I mean, I, you know, if anyonedoubted what I could do as a
musician, I mean, I'd easilyprove them wrong once I got on
stage, you know?
Um, so I think it's, you know, Ithink it's, I'm able to do both
careers and do them very well ifI can speak with, you know, sort
of some self analysis, butbecause I cut out a lot of other

(42:57):
things in my life, you know, Idon't really watch TV.
I don't second guess myself.
You know, once I commit tosomething, I just go and do it.
I've always been good at justlike getting, getting tasks
done, right?
So if I know, you know, If Iknow we got a record to record,
in, in a month, I'll just get,go on the garage and hammer out
my parts and do it until I'm,I'm great at it.

(43:17):
You know?
And I mean, the same applies onthe, the legal side.
Like I just, I put in the time,right?
So, and I guess, and that's, andthis is not at all meant to be
braggy by any means more justlike, because

No, be braggy.

Kurt Dahl (43:31):
I mean, people always ask this sort of question, like,
how do you do it?
Right.
And it's like, you know, Iusually, I kind

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (43:37):
I write it off with some sort of deferring, um,
answer, but I mean, like, itdoes help that I'm passionate
about both, right?
Like find things you're it'sagain, the cliche, right?
Find, find something you'repassionate about and you never
work a day in your life.
Right.
So, you know, I, I work my assoff on both those careers.
Because I love both of them,right?
If I was, there's things I hatedoing, like, uh, my taxes, you

(43:59):
know, like, um, so if I, if Iwas an accountant, I, I, I'd
kill myself, you know?
So, um, find things you love,right?
And that's, that's how I'm ableto do both, I think.
And that's, so when, if anyoneever said, well, you can't do
both that good, or youshouldn't, you shouldn't do
that.
It's not allowed.
I just, again, my attitude oflike, don't tell me what to do.
I'll do what the hell I want.
I'm going to create my

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (44:20):
that's always been my, my sort of guiding light,
you know?
Wow,

heard that Lou Reed quote an awful lot as well.
And it's a great quote.
And, and I have, and I have, andI have friends in the business
who have great story.
Like my very first interview onhere was Dan Mangan and, you
know, his story.
Yeah.
And Dan's story about, you know,very embryonic stage in his life
when he was driving all the wayto South by Southwest.

(44:46):
And one of his best songs cameout of that road regrets of, of
driving,

Kurt Dahl (44:50):
yeah.

driving, you know, he's, he's with all these
dreams, right?
Like, I'm going to getdiscovered at South by and then
he does not get discovered.
And then the drive home is, Verylong and very hard, but he made
a choice and it's part of hisstory of like, this is when I
need to like jump off the cliff,right?
The, or the, the blind, likeleap into all of this.
But the truth is, and I guessthis is why these stories and

(45:14):
everybody's stories are soimportant for me to tell here
is, is that the percentage ofpeople who get to actually make
the choice that Lou Reed issuggesting and then live Achieve
that and live in it is a smallpercentage, right?
And that's why it's the rock androll dream.
I think it's wonderful.
It's beautiful.
The truth is that there is thismassive percentage underneath it

(45:37):
of people who get to, as I havealways put it, be a part of the
fabric of history of.
the music scene and the musicbusiness.
And, and for some people, youknow, it's, they become a
songwriter or they adapt toanother part of the industry, or
in my case, wore a lot ofdifferent hats in order to keep

(45:58):
my feet dipped in it.
And you're in your case tofollow two very large, distinct,
demanding passions, sort of witheach other.
equal fervor through a career.
So I think that's, that's wheresome really interesting stories
are.
And I think that's what peopleshould be asking.
How did you do it?
Right?
If they're asking, how do you doit, man, they should be

(46:21):
listening for, can I see myselfin that, right?
Can I believe that I I'mpassionate about this other
thing too?
I don't have to give everythingup.
A lot of times it's.
a relationship with a lot ofpeople I've, I've met that, you
know, they allow a relationshipto suffer for the glory of
chasing a rock and roll dream.

(46:42):
How, when did you get married?
How far back did that,

Kurt Dahl (46:44):
Yeah.

that go?

Kurt Dahl (46:45):
it was that same year, 2010, that big sort of
like,

Oh my ear for you, Kurt.
Oh my God.

Kurt Dahl (46:52):
was, it was everything.
Yeah.
It was, it was crazy.
It was actually all within amonth too.
So I got called to the bar andbecame a lawyer Saskatoon.
Then I got married.
then, uh, moved to Vancouver andgot a new job and that is all
within a month.
So like, and a lot of lookingback at the time, it's like, we
just, this is what we got to do.
Let's just go.
And I mean, for a lot of peoplethat could have really broke

(47:15):
them, I mean, or, or one ofthose things could have not gone
as, as they had hoped.
I mean, thankfully, and again, Igive a lot of credit to my wife.
She's always been the rock, youknow, and, And I couldn't have
done any of this without her.
Right.
So, you know, I think that'spart of it.
It's like, I always had that bigsupport at home.
And then it also gave me likethe motivation to be like a good

(47:36):
husband and a good dad, all thatstuff.
Right.
So, yeah, so that was really,you know, that laid the
groundwork for everything elsethat came from, came afterwards,
you know,

And how many years married before children
came along?

Kurt Dahl (47:51):
our first kid, 2015, so we were married five years.
Yeah.

Okay.
Not too long.
So, so a large chunk of a largechunk of doing this lately has
been with kids, which Completelychanges, things.
What was, what was the veryfirst thing that you were like,
this, this has to change.
This is changing now when kidscame along.

(48:16):
Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (48:20):
touring like crazy.
And I'd seen how that, thatstory ends in terms of like, you
know, it's hard to be on theroad, like, and it's things I
love about being on tour, ofcourse, and I, you know, I often
miss it if I haven't done it fora while, but.
It's a lot of times it's hard,right?
Like you're not, you're not inyour own bed and you're away
from people you love and missingbig events.

(48:41):
Like I always hated missinglike, you know, I wouldn't miss
Christmas, but like missing kidsbirthdays or, you know, wife's
birthday or whatever, right?
Those kinds of things.
Or even just like, there's a bigevent happening with all your
friends and your family inSaskatoon, but you're You know,
we're, I'm really picking onThunder Bay today, but, uh, um,

(49:04):
you know, that's just, that'spart of, and that's what I would
say.
Any, any band that's made it ona, on a, on any sort of level,
got so much respect for, youknow, because your average fan
just doesn't see all this.
They see all the positives,whether it be on social media
or, or, or on stage.
They don't see all thesacrifice, right?
Like you're to get to thatlevel, to be, you know, to be

(49:27):
The Tragically Hip, think aboutall the things they missed at
home.
Right.
And, and I think about thepeople that have supported them
to get them there and all thatstuff.
So I just have so much love andrespect for, for artists that
really do

Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll never forget.
So, so my band had a greatfortune that one of the members
worked for WestJet during itstime.
And he would, he would partnerpass whatever his brother, who
was also in the band, cause itwas his brother and then buddy
pass myself and the drummer.
and so we would go do that 401tour, right.

(49:58):
From Windsor to Ottawa back andforth, like three times a year
over touring Western Canada.
Um, Even once.
So, I'll never forget.
I had started getting used tothis great validation where all
we'd have to do is go there andcome back to Edmonton.
And then, you know, either insome articles in the street

(50:19):
rags, we'd get talked about,like, something's happening,
right?
It looks really validating toeveryone in your own scene that
you're the ones consistentlygoing.
It does something.
It elevates you.
And I was enjoying that feeling,but I'll never forget sitting
outside.
I don't know if you're familiarwith the Phog, in Windsor, the P
H O G.

(50:39):
The is this tiny corner venuebar with this corner stage that
could fit maybe 25 people intothis room.
They got some folklore aroundthem from CBC radio three.
and I always wanted to play itcause I was an indie rock guy
and wanted to play all the wellknown venues at the time.
But I'll never forget sitting inthe parking lot outside.
It was the night before father'sday, feeling like the lowest

(51:05):
pieces of shit that I could haveever felt like, what the hell am
I doing here?
You know, and there was, it, itrobbed, I couldn't come home
from a tour and ever feel like,yeah, I'm cool.
I'm going to, you know, peopledon't really, people didn't
really know what was going on orhow you felt.
Um, it was a harsh feeling.
And to, to your point.

(51:25):
the, one of the largest impetusis to our, my band ending was my
personal, you know, when thequestion is like, do we keep
this going, I had just gonethrough, you know, my, seven
year old daughter, you justinnocently in my arms, just
saying, I like it better whenyou're not gone.
You can't shake that when youhear it.

Kurt Dahl (51:46):
that's

Right.

Kurt Dahl (51:47):
Yeah, exactly.
it.
That's

Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (51:50):
And so, and so

okay.
So

Kurt Dahl (51:52):
just so I

yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Kurt Dahl (51:54):
old, how old is your daughter now?
That, that daughter.

Well, this is the very fun part about all this
that she is 19 and she is goingto listen to this episode and
then we are going to do what Icall post-fame where we're going
to talk for 15 minutes about hertake on an episode together like
you and I are doing right now,her up in her room.
And then we, we share musicinspirations and things like

(52:18):
that all the time.
So we're just going to talkabout whatever, in those little
post epilogue kind of pieces.
So, maybe my greatest thrill inthis podcast is, being able to
incorporate my daughter, intoit.
She's wonderful.

Kurt Dahl (52:31):
I love it.
And you know what?
And to me that that is, it kindof relates to what you're saying
to some extent, but like, yeah,like I always, those early years
were tough when my kids areyoung and I was still touring
and, and now two are verylittle, but like, you know, not
quantity sort of touring, but

Hmm.

Kurt Dahl (52:48):
things ever is like, obviously I've, or not obviously
I should say, but I've got agreat relationship with my kids.
And.
But getting able to being ableto like have them experience the
band now, cause now they're abit older.
We played, we played a show twoweeks, weeks ago in town and you
had a thousand people out andthe kids came to sound check.
And now it's like the band, itused to be a thing that took me
away from my family.

(53:09):
And now it's a thing that like,you know, they can see that dad
is cool and they can see thesacrifice that I, the payoff to
all the sacrifice I made, youknow?
So I love that you and yourdaughter can share that and
share music and all that sort ofstuff.

Yeah, it's incredible.
I mean, that's incredible foryou as well.
Like, I, I would have loved tohave been able to also have that
experience, right?
I think it's pretty awesome.
like I said before, like you hadgotten on my radar around 2016
2017.
And I started to know who youwere and then sort of see some
of the things that you weredoing.
And I, and I think I immediatelynoticed that you were pretty

(53:45):
active as in your voice in thecommunity, which is pretty
great.
So I don't know whether you knowor not, but I mean, there's a
number of things that you'vebeen a part of different
charities and fundraisers andactivist voice.
the one that had real particularinterest to me, and I don't know
if it was late in 2018, early2019, where you made a, social

(54:07):
media post about wearing thisshirt that you had made
feminist,

Kurt Dahl (54:13):
Right.

which, uh, by the way, I, I had ordered one.
I don't know if you know, I wasone of the,

Kurt Dahl (54:18):
know that.
Nice.
Nice.

six years, but, um, I love I love the shirt.
So here's why I want to ask youabout that.
First of all, I want to ask whatwere the seeds behind printing a
shirt, wearing it, publicizingit, and then even following
through people's demand andprinting extras and allowing
them to order and also wear itand have that voice as a man in

(54:48):
our culture right now and allthe things going on.
I'm curious where that comesfrom.
I'm sure everybody who orderedone has their own angle and take
about why.
Uh, but what I want to tell youbefore you tell me that it's
like, the interesting thing tome is like, I ordered that
because I'm pretty outspoken.

(55:08):
I'm extremely supportive of.
the female voice in our societyabout equality and all the ways
that it's ridiculous that thingshaven't changed, everything that
we've gone through over the lastsix years of, you know, either
whether it's largely brandedlike me too, or just these crazy

(55:29):
continual challenges like what'shappening in the States, uh,
against freedoms of women andtheir bodies.
Um, I've always been 100 percentadvocate, like, to me, there's
no difference other than, youknow, the differences that we
can make between us.
And, but with all of that said,I remember putting the shirt on
and thinking, should I bewearing this shirt?

(55:52):
You know, I've probably been adick to women.
A number of times in my life,I've said a lot of things the
same way I do with privilege.
I've said to women withoutunderstanding what I was really
saying, because I'm a man, andI'm allowed to have so many
short sighted shortcomings,right?
The things I don't even see,like the first time, the first

(56:13):
time I learned.
That a woman checks doors andlooks who's coming on the
sidewalk and makes a choicewhether or not to cross the
street because of how safe shefeels.
I've never had to do that in mywhole life, right?
Um, and once you do that, itchanges you.
And yet, with all of thatknowledge, I remember the
feeling of, should I be wearingthis shirt because I was afraid

(56:35):
of being called out as a fraud?
Um,

Kurt Dahl (56:38):
yeah, no, they're.

those little feelings are.
In, so I'm just really curiousabout what the seeds were for
you and what brought aboutsomething like that.
And I know it's just one of alot of things that you sort of
stood for, but I'm, I'mdefinitely interested.

Kurt Dahl (56:51):
Yeah, I know.
100%.
I think at the time it was, likethe, the U.
S.
Supreme Court judge had beenappointed.
He was, you know, Kavanaugh,whatever, the guy that

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Kurt Dahl (57:04):
by like three different women and he got
appointed.
then, The worry was at the timefor, from, for a lot of people
was that they were going to makeabortion illegal again, which
now it is essentially.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm

Kurt Dahl (57:16):
it's just so sad that things have gone the way they've
gone since then.
But that, for me, it was like,know, I want to just use my
voice, and my platform to kindof create awareness and raise
some money and whatever.
And I think that, I mean, forme, You know, my definition, uh,
and everyone's got differentdefinitions, I, I imagine, but
my definition of feminism is,you know, that women and men

(57:39):
should have equal rights.
Um, and I think that, you know,in hindsight, even like some,
mostly the, most of the responseto that was really positive.
And, and sometimes in life, whenyou get a couple of negatives,
you focus on those, but somepeople were like, well, you
know, you're a white privilegedmale lawyer.
Like, how dare you.

(58:00):
You know, think you can,whatever, whatever.
I think that also I think thosepeople are just really negative.
Um, because, because of coursethe alternative is that I say
nothing and do nothing.
Right.

Yeah.
Good point.

Kurt Dahl (58:11):
so I feel like you're always going to get shot down if
you try to make a difference.
Right.
so it raised some money and.
The response is great.
Raise some awareness and thenjust donate it to a local
women's shelter in Saskatoon.
But, for me, it's just, and yousee this happening in the U S
more and more now, especiallywith Trump coming back in.
It's like, there's a sense oflike men have all the power

(58:35):
again, and it's just reallyscary.

So, cause I recognize that I, I wasn't doing
a podcast with you to get awhole bunch of Free legal advice
for musicians, that wasn't thegoal at all.
though there's lots of questionsI could ask that are typical,
like, what are the things thatcome up the most, et cetera, but
you made a fantastic post onInstagram recently where you
said.

(58:58):
Here's, here's 14 things I'velearned in the last two decades,
which I thought, Oh my God, likehow well timed Kurt with the
fact that I was going to betalking to you right away
because I want to pull out frompeople what those are.
So, I mean, I'll tell everybodylistening first and foremost,
obviously they should go to thelawyer drummer, Instagram page
and find that a post where youtalk about these 14 things,

(59:20):
which are all spot on, by theway,

Kurt Dahl (59:22):
Thank you.

maybe then rapid fire.
I pull a couple of them out andjust, You give sort of the
broader context about how that'scome to be really important to
you in like

Kurt Dahl (59:32):
Yeah.

quicker rapid fire So the very first one you
said was success in quotes Inthe music biz comes in the long
term not the short termestablished daily habits and
routines that work towards thatsuccess and watch them Manifest
so i'm really been curious aboutthe place of how careers get
developed in music and howthat's changed i've been

(59:53):
fascinated by like the contestTV show and whether that's
actually a valid placement nowthat it's existed for 20 plus
years in how artists find acareer.
Yeah, everything from Idol tothe talent shows and, you know,
versus this idea where artistswho are more pure would think
people are skipping those steps.

(01:00:13):
Everyone should have to go upthe same number of rungs on the
ladder right in their career andwhich to me just whether I like
those shows or not isn't truelike everyone's trying to skip
skip ahead to fame and fortuneand not have to like you know go
through all the the pain and theheartbreak and the way you

(01:00:34):
described Those years for you.
So I'm just wondering what youfeel about, you know, this idea
of how you establish that andbuild that, you know, is there a
version where you can't skip thesteps or what does that look
like for you?

Kurt Dahl (01:00:48):
Well, I mean, I think for me, I just seen like some,
some of my biggest clients, and,and even just friends that have
done well in the music biz, likereally, It really is long term.
And, and like, I'm thinking ofsomeone like say, Chris
Stapleton, who, you know, spenthow many years in Nashville,
just writing songs for otherartists, you know, and he was an
absolute nobody and did thatfor, I mean, I don't know, 15

(01:01:11):
years or something, I, I, I'mnot sure, maybe not that long,
but,

Glen Erickson (01:01:15):
Yeah.

Kurt Dahl (01:01:15):
something like that, but, and then eventually just
came up with like his own thingand then put all together and it
was like this perfectlyformulated artist and identity.
And then he blew up that debutrecord.
So, I mean, and they did it hisown way to, so people.
He didn't have to pretend to besomeone else.
Right.
And that's another point inthere.

(01:01:36):
but I think so many artists,again, a lot of them are my
clients where it's like, you,you take the road less traveled
takes a bit longer, but when youget to the destination, you, you
arrive fully formed, you knowwhat I mean?
And, um,

You're you're 13th point is about the most
successful people areauthentically themselves.
So don't try to be someone else.
And I guess you're kind ofpointing at that one too, with
that is sometimes it just takesyou longer to find.
Maybe your authentic self.
Maybe we shouldn't put such aquick timeline on what we think
is our

Kurt Dahl (01:02:10):
yeah, look at someone like Bruce Springsteen.
I mean, you know, his first tworecords bombed Bob Dylan's first
two records bombed, you know,it's like, Yeah, it took a while
to find themselves, but theydidn't change just cause the
first record didn't succeed.
They didn't try to be someoneelse after that.
Right.
So,

Hmm.

Kurt Dahl (01:02:28):
and then once you, if you stick to your guns and
define who you are, and, then Ithink you've got a longer career
ahead.
Right.
And, um, you know, Colter wallis a good example.
You know, someone who's justalways just done his own thing.
It hasn't tried to, doesn't goto Nashville and do co writes,
try to change the sound orwhatever.
He just kind of does his ownthing.
And people love him for that,you know?

(01:02:49):
So I think that's kind of whereit was coming from.

Okay.
your number seven you had talkedabout and you alluded this
earlier about you eitherclimbing up the mountain or on
your way back down.
You can't stay at the top forvery long.
so you said enjoy the climb aswell as the descent.
You had talked about how nobodytalks about the grind and the
hard part of their story.
do you have a little picture ofwhat the descent looks like in a
career of music when you're, youknow, it's peaks and valleys,

(01:03:16):
it's ebbs and flows.
What does the descent look like?

Kurt Dahl (01:03:19):
Yeah.
You know, it's interesting.
I mean, well, I experienced itwith one bad son.
I mean, every client of mine hasexperienced it.
You know, a good example wouldbe someone like Neil young, who,
you know, at one point wastouring arenas and then, you
know, in the, in the seventieswith like, say Crosby, Stills,
Nash and Young, and then all ofa sudden.
In the eighties come along andhis records tank and now he's

(01:03:39):
back to like the midsize venues.
And then at the end of theeighties, he's as rocking in the
free world and he's back up tothe top.
He's back in arenas.
And then, the nineties were kindof weird for him.
So kind of smaller venues andthen his big comeback album with
harvest moon.
So now he's back on it.
So I think it's like, that's agood example.
I mean, you can't, or even thebiggest pop star, whether

(01:04:03):
you're, I mean, Lady Gaga is agood example.
Every song of hers for a time,there were just was a mega
smash, but her last few releaseshaven't been right.
But does that mean she's goingto be done?
Well, I, I really hope not.
can't stay at, no one could stayat the top.
Whether you're who are thebiggest artists of all time.
I mean, Elvis, a lot of hissingles tank towards the end.
You mean we've all, or I've seenthat movie, right?

(01:04:24):
It's towards the end.
It's like his singles weren'tdoing anything.
Michael Jackson.
I mean, look where, how thatended up.
I mean, no one can stay at thetop.
Right.
So, almost getting to theabsolute top, it can be a curse
in some ways.
Right.
So sometimes you,

Yeah,

Kurt Dahl (01:04:38):
You're almost better to kind of be just kind of going
around the bottom rung of themountain or the middle of the
mountain, right?

well, it makes me think while you were saying
that, that, you know, whenyou're trying to grow a career
and you're aspiring to this,right?
Like that mountain isn't thebiggest, you know, it's not the
number one signal singles andbeing on all of those things
like that mountain for me when Iwas going to say, I just wanted
to play all those iconic venuesacross Canada.
If I could play the railway andthe sidetrack here in Edmonton,

(01:05:04):
if I could play the Dakota andin Toronto, like, Like at one
point, that was my mountain,right?
And then I get to that point andthen I see a higher plateau.
You're going to have descentsoff of all of those little ones
too.
So I think that's a great pointthat it it's, it's like nobody
stays in that place forever.
And, and creating a career, isdefinitely about, figuring out

(01:05:26):
how to ride it up and enjoy itand ride it down and wait for
the next.
Opportunity, right?
well, I'm not going to keep you.
I appreciate it.
I agree.
And I would suggest people goand read those things because I
think they're spot on.
the other one that I like thebest, by the way, which is
applies to the number one rulein the music scene about your
reputation having swing.

(01:05:47):
Wings, sorry, the reputationhaving wings.
It's a small industry and thisis so true, especially in
Canada.
Everyone knows everyone.
It's really the golden rule ofdon't be a dick.
Um, because in our, our musicbusiness and scene is so small.
back when I was trying all myhand at this, Same time as you
really, the early or mid 2000s,2010, 2012.

(01:06:11):
it seemed like everybody knewwho each other's agents were,
who the managers were, who thepublicists were.
Nobody knew who a lawyer was.
Nobody knew who to ask.
Nobody thought they needed ituntil maybe they were going to
get major label signed.
And then I guess I talked to alawyer.
All of that's really.
Changed, I think, in yourpresence, on the scene, by the
way, Kurt, I think, is, deeplyappreciated, even if people

(01:06:35):
don't know it, yet they, theyshould understand, like, how
important it is to have someone,active and advocating, such as
yourself, in, in entertainmentlaw and being available, which
kinda, who, who needs to reachout to you?
Where are people at in theircareer when they need to talk to
you?

Kurt Dahl (01:06:54):
Yeah.
Good question, Glen.
I think obviously if you get acontract put in front of you,
like that's an obvious one,because I've had so many artists
come to me after they signed adeal and could be a week after
it could be a year after.
And they're like, I need to getout of this deal.
It's horrible.
I can't do a lot of work with asigned contract.
I mean, sometimes you get likethe silver bullet.
You can be lucky.

(01:07:15):
There could be something wrong.
You can get out of the deal, butmost of the time, no, otherwise
system would fall apart ifcontracts were easy to get out
of.
Right.
So.
Come to me before you sign acontract.
I think a lot of people think,uh, a common misconception or a
common I guess, is that theycan't afford a lawyer.
So why reach out to one?
I mean, I would say reach out tome first.

(01:07:37):
If you get a one page deal andit's super easy and no issues
with it, I might not chargeanything.
That being said, if it's a 20record deal, Because it's an
important deal.
but I always give a quote, soyou'll, you'll know ahead of
time.
and then I guess other thanthat, I think if you don't have
a contract in front of you, Imean, would say that if things

(01:08:00):
are happening in your career,whether people are getting
interested in you, whether itbe.
You're adding team members likea manager or an agent or a
whatever, even publicist.
Like people are starting to say,Hey, let's, let's work together.
That's reach out and justestablish a connection with
someone like myself.
We can have a phone call, get toknow each other, whatever.
So when the time comes andsomething's like urgent, you can

(01:08:20):
just pick up the phone and callme.
And I mean, yeah, in general, Ithink if you're, if you're co
writing songs with someone, youcould use a co writer agreement
probably if you're featured on arecording, like you're a
vocalist or a whatever sessionplayer, it might be worthwhile
to see what kind of, you know,rights you have to revenues and
that sort of stuff.
So, I think if you're, if you'rewatching this and you've got

(01:08:41):
questions and think maybe Kurtcould help just shoot me an
email or message

Yeah,

Kurt Dahl (01:08:45):
and

for sure.

Kurt Dahl (01:08:46):
a call.
You

What would a band agreement cost?
Cause I think this is a killerfor everybody who ends up in a
band that they don't get a bandagreement.
And, uh, I think it's crucial,like they should have it at the
start, right.
And everybody doesn't thinkabout talking to a lawyer until
later, but they need a bandagreement and they trust the
ones they get off the internetsomewhere.

(01:09:09):
Or should they.
Should they make that a point?
Always.

Kurt Dahl (01:09:14):
I mean, I honestly say that the stuff you get on
the internet, especially nowbecause you can, you can draft
contracts with AI, but the thingis like what you're paying a
good lawyer for is theirexperience in the industry.
So which AI, I mean, it justdoesn't have, I mean the life
experience that I have.
Right.
So, Every band agreement'sdifferent.

(01:09:34):
It really, you want someonewho's going to draft something
that's tailored to your band,you know, cause you can be
rolling stones or Pearl jamwould have different band
agreements, right?
Like the stones.
It's like two people are kind ofrunning, steering the ship Pearl
jam.
It's more all of them, whatever.
Right.
So.
Every band is different.
Every band agreement'sdifferent.
As far as cost.

(01:09:54):
I mean, I, I always say like, Ineed to find out what's the
nature of the band and what'sinvolved.
So, but that's where I have aphone call for free and then I
can send you a quote.
You know what I mean?

That's brilliant.
I did apply you for some freelegal advice anyhow, so I
apologize.
I lied, but, but I, I appreciateyou giving those tips and that
advice to people.
I think it's really important,but, uh, most of all, I just
appreciate.
you Kurt taking the time to kindof unpack your life a little bit
for us and, and get a peek in, Ithink your career is super

(01:10:26):
interesting and probably amillion things we could have
talked about and, and had somany things to learn from.
So, thank you for taking thetime with me and spending the
time as well as the, the workyou do in the community.
And I continue to wish you greatsuccess.

Kurt Dahl (01:10:42):
Thank you.
Glen it was a great, a greatdiscussion, man.
Appreciate it.

Thanks Kurt.
Bye bye.
Hi Lexi.
okay, so we're gonna, talk aboutepisode six,

alexi (01:11:00):
yes.

dah, uh, lawyer drummer.
Lawyer, drummer, which, he, hedove into a little bit, which
was kind of interesting.
It's a little take on it, but,um, yeah.
Kurt Dahl, this is the first, sowe're at number six, right?
This is the first time I'vetalked to somebody that I didn't

(01:11:23):
already have history with.

alexi (01:11:25):
True.
Yeah, I was gonna mention it wasthe first person who I didn't
have, not a personal connectionwith, but I hadn't, like I.
Heard of him as much as everyoneelse, nor had I like obviously
met him or had any relationshipor ties to.

yeah.
I mean, if you kind of gothrough that all, you're right.
Like a few people, you'veprobably heard their name.
I mentioned a lot in differentways, uh, and some of them
having a bunch of history with,and other people just, uh, act
more actively having donethings, with or even I guess
met, in that case.
But yeah, so this was, I wasreally looking forward to it for

(01:12:04):
that reason and I think it waspretty a great opportunity.
I'm really happy.
and it, and it's so funny'causeI have those.
Uh, I wouldn't call themapprehensions, but I, I had, I
don't know, you know what Imean?
Like, the whole thing in my headlike, this is gonna be
different.
The other ones were easy and Isort of, I, I kind of served
myself up a softball with thefirst handful, uh, of podcasts,

(01:12:26):
which you probably should do.
I mean, I think that's, I shoulddo to get things started.
And then this one's like, okay,this is where I'm actually, you
know what I'm saying?
So.
He, again, just like all theothers, he was extremely kind
and generous and, uh, verytransparent and open in talking,
and made it really, really easyfor me.

(01:12:48):
And I really appreciated, uh,all of that about the
conversation for sure.
I, Did you, um, you know what wedidn't get into about.
with him that I wanted to, uh,you probably picked up on at the
end is like, I really thought,okay, we'll talk about his
history and we'll do a segmentjust sort of laying the
groundwork of how he got to be,who he is and where he is and,

(01:13:10):
and the things that came withthat.
And then I thought, I'm gonnaspend a good chunk of time on
those, uh, 14 things that he hadposted in his social media.
At the end, um, that were likea, you know, a pretty accurate
like, music industry summaryfrom his perspective.
Um, and I thought that it woulddovetail into the fact that I

(01:13:32):
could ask him a bunch ofquestions from the legal angle
of the music industry that Ithought maybe a lot people would
wanna know or would expect me totry to like hammer out some free
legal advice from him.
But, uh, we ended up talking solong of on.
Just his career development andall the things that we left
ourselves no time for, for thatat the end, which is a little

(01:13:55):
unfortunate.
There was a lot there we couldhave gone, you know?
Yeah.
But, um, the biggest one, and Iwas gonna say, I can't remember
actually off the top of my headright now, if.
We got into it, but, um, he saidhalf the people in the music,
amazing, intelligent, talented,thoughtful, generous, kind

(01:14:17):
people in the world.
The other half are snakes.
Um, I'm lucky to workexclusively with the former.
So that was from his posts,which I thought was pretty, I
don't know.
It is like, it's pretty bold andbrave because I think a lot of
even want to make a sniff ofcalling people up.

alexi (01:14:38):
snakes.
Yeah.
I mean though, like, I meanobviously he didn't delve into
it, but, he, he was mentioninglike, well, no, he was
mentioning though, like, um, anumber of times during the
episode, like not falling intothe wrong like, uh, studios and
like producers and people whosign you and like.

(01:14:59):
I don't know.
I feel like the general themealong that topic was like you
can sign with some pretty badpeople and like end up working
in pretty bad situations becauseof people, which I mean kind of
alludes to that, to that pointhe makes.

Yeah, and I mean, you can tell me what you think
from your perspective and sortof the amount of time that
you've spent in your life sofar.
Paying attention to, I guess,the perception that the music
industry kind of creates, likethe mainstream music industry,
primarily a hollywoodish versionof music of, you know.

(01:15:36):
Of this story of, yeah, there'slike these awful record
companies who want to takeadvantage, and then the artist
is always the person who ismaybe the hero of the story who
just wants to do the right thingand maybe gets taken advantage.
Like that's an old story that Idon't know whether you that
still gets spun or if it looksdifferent.

alexi (01:15:56):
I mean, I also think though, like you gotta take into
account that like you are mydad.
Like, I think I hear a lot moreinsight I mean, if anything,
more the wonderful good partsthan like the horror stories.
But not to say that I don'talso, you know, kind of get to
hear about that side.

There's a little bias in your interpretation now.
So you, you I've, I've sort oftainted any ability for you to
have a completely clearperception.

alexi (01:16:26):
take.
Yeah.
I mean, like, maybe, I think

That's a good point.
I.

alexi (01:16:30):
you just described is like kind of that the, the, the
age old story of like how themusic industry is portrayed.
Like, I mean that's kind ofaccurate, like of how I see it
in a sense.
I mean, you see it on socialmedia too,

Yeah, I think sometimes people in this day and
age.
I hate, I can't believe I usethat phrase in this day and age.
Like if there's anything thattells anybody what, how old you
think you are.
Uh, it's when you use a phrasein this day and age, I think
that when I look aroundcurrently, because there's been
obviously so many changes in themusic industry, but it's

(01:17:06):
different the way you look at itwhen you've been in the
industry.
I guess it's just that abil,that inability to have.
well for myself to have, uh, uh,an unbiased version of it
anymore.
And you're sort of suggestingthat by, uh, adjacency, by
proximity, you're not completelyclear of having an unbiased or,

alexi (01:17:30):
Yeah.

or perception of it either.
But I do think that for peopleright now who are looking
around, um.
I guess my assumption is thatit's a different story because I
know how much has changed in thebusiness, but I guess what's
interesting, yeah, thebreakthroughs are similar and

(01:17:52):
different, so I think a lot ofpeople feel like they're
different or how it happens.
So it used to happen thatsomebody had to discover you,
right?
And the person who discoveredyou had to have the backing.
Of a company usually big enoughand with enough resources to
actually make something happenfor you.
And that's what it meant to bediscovered.

(01:18:13):
And the decentralization of thatis that right now, and I, and
that's kind of a joke, which itcurrently, which is being
discovered, is you finding a wayto go viral on some form of
social media, right?
So you.

alexi (01:18:31):
Like the rules have reversed.

Yeah, but the whole thing is actually the
same.
Like you are looking for a quickmethod to get fast exposure to
millions instead of hundreds ofpeople.
You wanna make that big of ajump, and it used to have to be
through a gatekeeper.
And now it's almost exclusively.
Through these quote unquoteorganic means.

(01:18:55):
Yeah.
But, but so, but the point he'smaking is actually the same,
right?
Because before the snakes werethose gatekeepers who abused
that privilege and tookadvantage of people, versus the
ones who were gatekeepers, whoactually.

(01:19:15):
Created beautiful careers forpeople and gave people
opportunities when they saw itreally deserved it.
But we always focus on thesnakes.
So, yeah.
But, and now, you know, in thesame way though, there's still a
thing where the snakes of theworld are the ones who are
sitting there being like, I canmake you go viral.

(01:19:36):
I can, you know what I mean?
Like, I, I can do all the,anyhow, all the same.
It's a different version of asnake who's playing the exact
same game, who's saying, I canget you to millions of people
and they don't actually haveyour best interest in mind.
And so being careful of those, Ithink that was the interesting
point to me is like, it feelslike everything's changed, but

(01:19:58):
it's really the same.
It's still, still, it's stillthe same thing going on.
Uh, I mean, real quick, just'cause I like to tell stories,
it makes me think of.
a story, and I don't rememberhow much I ever told you about
this, but one of the biggestopportunities that ever came to
fruition in my life in the musicindustry that I really wanted to

(01:20:20):
happened.
Uh, a couple of, I'm gonna say acouple, maybe a year before
Covid.
'cause nobody remembers how muchtime is anymore.

alexi (01:20:30):
Yeah.

pandemic.
But I think it was maybe only ayear.
Did I ever tell you about how Igot introduced to that?
Billionaire in Edmonton here,and his daughter is an aspiring
musician in the city, uh, who Iknew of.
And then through another friendwho he had contacted because he
was looking for a way, he, hejust thought like he had been

(01:20:54):
exposed to the snakes.
Right.
So his daughter had been sort ofcontacted and, and sort of.
I know you used the term, but Idon't like it.
Wooed to come out to Toronto andrecord some demos with some DJs
and producers, which is kind ofthe way certain aspects of the
industry work that way.
It's like, come out here, we'llwe'll do some recordings and

(01:21:17):
then I'll see what I can do withthose and then maybe we'll end
up working together.
And once she went out and onceand, and her dad thankfully.
Great guy.
Was involved, right?
And he asked questions and hegot involved and and was able to
sort of sniff out less thantrustworthy people who the deal

(01:21:37):
was never gonna be in her favorif things worked out.
And you know, obviously as aastute business guy, he was very
much bothered and he was like,and so his concern was there's
snakes.
And so a lot of these.
As he would put it, kids, theyneed a break.
You know?
They need to be able to not haveto go.

(01:21:59):
Uh, we've alluded to it in acouple of these episodes about
skipping some steps on theladder and, and he wanted, well,
his big idea, I guess, was tocreate like a local version of
like an American Idol slashlocal TV show contest.
So it would almost be like you'dget a partnership with local.

(01:22:20):
Tv, like Telus or something, andthen we would have people
competing for votes from thelocal audience and, and sort of
contest it up.
And anyhow, and I was pitching adevelopment program to'em
instead.
I was like, I don't think thatreally works.
But I had all that experiencewith the development programs at
Peak and the project wilds andstuff.

(01:22:42):
So.
so that was probably one of themost interesting times in my
life.
All the meetings with him, he isa wonderful guy.
Um, it didn't turn out maybealso one of my bigger
disappointments'cause I thoughtit would've been awesome and I
would've loved to run all ofthat and run with it.
But, it was a cool relationshipand it was all based on his
exposure to the typical six inthe industry.

(01:23:05):
But yeah.
yeah, but Kurt was a great, Kurtwas a great guy.
He had all kinds of cool thingsto say and I could tell like, he
does a number of these and hegets asked a lot of the similar
questions.
I tried to avoid all the samequestions he would normally get,
but I, he's also a guy I couldtell, I could talk to for easily
another hour about all kinds ofthings, and he would have so

(01:23:27):
much to say and so many storiesand, and stuff.
So I appreciated that a lot.
so real quick, uh, I would, Ineed you to remind me again of
the artist you played me thismorning, and I've asked you
twice.
You played me a song and yousaid you just had it shared to
you and you shared it to me, andthat's my favorite thing.
This goes.
So I want you to tell me again.

(01:23:47):
So now we're sharing it witheverybody else.

alexi (01:23:50):
So is like, it's okay.
'cause I put this on myInstagram story, so I can't even
say I've been gate keeping it.

Oh yeah.

alexi (01:23:56):
so it's true.
I put it on my Instagram storywith a photo, but, was Sick
Dogs, but the artist was, Hey,comma, nothing.
Um, and.
I keep mentioning this on thepodcast of like the songs that I
repeat and I swear I don't evendo it that often, but it keeps
coming up.
But I, but here we are.

(01:24:19):
Apparently I'm discovering thatI do it more often than I think.
but yeah, I had it sent to meby, my partner and then I was
like, this is like such a greatsong.
Kind of like threw it on aplaylist.
Um, forgot about it.
For maybe a few months, and thenrediscovered it and was like,
this is the song that fits likemy timeline.

(01:24:41):
Like right now.
Kind of feeling

Hmm.

alexi (01:24:44):
just click and you're like, this feels like very, like
right now.
Maybe that's just me.

Well, I, I don't know I've ever thought about it
that way, but I get what you'resaying.

alexi (01:24:54):
Sometimes I hear songs and I'm like, yeah, this is like
a great song representation oflike how I feel about like.
The point in my timeline I'm inright now in my life, like it
just clicks in my head and I'mlike, yeah.

Sense.
I don't know if I've thoughtthat thematically of a song for
a while, but I know like, justlike musically or tonally, it
literally just felt like, likeit was, I guess I use the term
soundtrack because soundtracksare more about how a song makes
you feel while a scene ishappening.

(01:25:28):
And I definitely feel likethere's soundtrack songs in my
life, like, definitely that.
People watching by Sam Fender inthe fall.
Uh, late fall was that for me.
And, uh, I mean, his full albumjust came out this week too, by
the way, and I, and reallyenjoying it.
But yeah, that was a, that was asoundtrack song for me.

(01:25:51):
And then there's other oneswhere I've never even gotten
into like the whole album ortheir whole discography.
Right.
Um.
There's one, oh dude, I forgotthe name.
How could I forget the nameright off the bat of the band?
shoot.
I'm gonna have to like, come upwith,

alexi (01:26:07):
hop

oh, I know.
It's really crazy, but it's asong.
Uh, I'm pretty sure it's calledCalifornia, but I'm gonna like
dig it up here.
But it's definitely like asoundtrack song for me.
So I don't know, like, I thinkit's cool if you found in
another song that you're playingover and over again.
I think lots of people have.
Soundtrack songs and can totallylike, totally relate to that.

alexi (01:26:31):
yeah.
And it's not the lyrics either.
Like it's just Yeah, it'sdefinitely that feeling like,
also I put it on my story, witha picture from a night out with
a lot of people and two othersfrom that night out used the
same song in their stories

Oh,

alexi (01:26:47):
too.

you

alexi (01:26:49):
And I

such an.

alexi (01:26:49):
no, this isn't me flexing that I put people on.
This is, I was just like, yeah,like it's just such a like right
now song.

That's great.

alexi (01:26:56):
fit the energy of the night.
So I was like, that was

Yeah.

alexi (01:27:00):
Fun.
Find

The song is called California.
I Was right.
It's by Delta Spirit and itlike, um, when I made my
workouts playlist,

alexi (01:27:10):
yes.

quite a while ago, I.
That was like a song that assoon as I heard it, I'm like,
how did I not hear this before?
Because you know, you look it upand you're like, oh, it was
released like two years agoprevious, or something like
that.
And I'm like, how did I miss it?
How disappointing.
But then it becomes, in thatmoment, it becomes everything
about your life.
So I totally get what you'resaying.

(01:27:33):
Yeah.

alexi (01:27:34):
It.

Yeah.
I totally get it, Lex.
Um, okay.
Okay, well then I'm gonna go andtry to remember, Hey, comma
shoot, dude, what is my problemtoday?

alexi (01:27:48):
it.

Everyone?
Hey everyone.
It's not, Hey comma, everyone.

alexi (01:27:54):
No.

Hey.
Hey, comma, dude.
Hey comma.
Uh, I'm not gonna get it.
I.
Hey, comma.
Oh, that makes, oh, that seemsso on the nose, actually, when I
think about it, but, okay.
I'm not gonna write it downbecause that would make me even
older than I am.
So I'm gonna go and add it to alist here.

(01:28:15):
I'm gonna add it to our playlisthere.
What am I talking about?
I'm gonna add it to our almostfamous enough playlist on
Spotify, and it'll be there.
And then if other people want tohear it.
They don't have to re-listen tothe podcast, like I'm gonna have
to probably to remember thename.
Just kidding.
Okay.
Thanks for your time.
Appreciate it.

alexi (01:28:35):
Okay.
Love you.
Bye.

love you.
Bye.

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