ep8 Leeroy Stagger is a light

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Glen Erickson (00:00):
Are you familiar with the characters in the
Canadian streaming televisionprogram Letterkenney referred to
as the skids?
The All black wearing meth headswho appear to have no career in
a small Canadian town of 5,000,but instead spend their days
playing video games, but mostlyhanging outside the singular

(00:20):
small town confectionary store.
Dancing on broken downcardboard, doing meth, selling
meth, chirping the regulars,then dancing some more to their
boombox, industrial electronicamusic.
There is a Spotify playlist, bythe way, for Letterkenney Skids.
You can look it up, but if youhave seen one episode of

(00:41):
Letterkenney, of course you knowexactly what I'm talking about.
Now imagine that one of thosepopular skids hits rock's bottom
and decides to clean up hislife, maybe get a job, pursue
his dreams, and to get into atreatment program.
I am pretty sure step one ofsaid treatment program is to
never return to Letterkenneyconfectionary corner, or hang

(01:04):
out with the skids.
Again, if you wanna stay clean,you just can't go back.
This is the problem with themusic industry.
Today our guest is LeeroyStagger, and while a big part of
Leeroy's story is how alcoholismalmost robbed him of the most
promising career, but he wasthankfully able to get help and

(01:25):
turn it around, and now he has along career.
It's unfair to assume that's thewhole story just because I made
this entire intro an adjacentmetaphor about it.
But Leeroy has continued acareer in the music industry
and.
Historically, the music industryhas been the primary enabler for

(01:47):
a life of substance abuse.
It's like going back to theconfectionary corner with every
single show you play and everyevent that you attend.
Leeroy Stagger is a roots rock,Americana.
Alt country.
You get it.
Really cool singer songwriterout of Victoria bc.
In the spirit of Steve Earl, TomPetty, Ryan Adams and Jeff

(02:10):
Tweedy, and not just in thespirit of, he literally
possesses the actual spirit ofall those guys.
He has released 13 albums in 20years, toured the world shared
stages with his idols, all whileovercoming personal demons and
losses and multiple start overs.
He continues to make incrediblemusic, including his most recent

(02:32):
3 AM revelations and is agenuine light in dark times.
My name is Glen Erickson.
This is almost famous enough.
Thanks for spending your timewith us.
This is Leeroy Stagger.

(03:01):
It's really nice to see you.
Uh, it's been a really longtime, but

Leeroy (03:06):
It's been a very long time.
God, five

I can't remember, I can't remember to be
completely honest.
I, I know I've crossed pathswith you since all the peak
performance things, but I can'tplace exactly where.

Leeroy (03:20):
yeah.

Very minimally other than just watching all the
things you're doing, all thestuff that's coming out.
So

Leeroy (03:26):
of life has happened since then.

yeah, a lot of life has happened.
But I hope to get into it alittle bit here with you, if
that's okay.
I know you must be, prettyoccupied with a brand new
release out.
Like you just released your new,it's your 13th album, 3 AM

Leeroy (03:43):
Yeah.
Revelations Yeah.

uh, Wikipedia and Spotify have two different years
for your first record, but onesays 20 2004, one says 2005.
regardless, doesn't matterexcept when I want to do math,
so I'll just make it more, evenlike 13 full albums in 20 years
is a pretty feat for an artist.
Has that been part of yourcurrent reflections all?

(04:07):
Is that what happens when we getolder and you're still making
music?

Leeroy (04:11):
yeah, I guess to some degree more so right now because
I just got all my publishingback and

Can you explain that?

Leeroy (04:19):
yeah.
So, um, I guess just over sevenyears ago, uh, I signed a
publishing deal with True North,

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (04:28):
it was, that was right after Peak Performance Project.
and they

Okay.
Yeah.

Leeroy (05:11):
don't know.
Yeah, we'll see.
We're talking about it and I'm,of course, I'm, I've got two
records that are in the Vaultthat have never been released,
and I'm starting a record nextweek with Joel Plaskitt.
So, I mean, we'll just kind ofsee how it all shakes down.

So for people who are listening and don't sort of
understand, you know, thepublishing bit when someone else
owns those for seven years.
Because for example, likethere's some pretty famous deals
that have happened over the lastthree or four years, right?
Where some artists are sellingtheir catalogs for ridiculous
amounts of money, some of thesemarquee people.

(05:48):
and then you're restricted, Ithink people might who don't
understand that business.
Curious to know what are therestrictions when someone else
owns your publishing.

Leeroy (05:58):
yeah.
That's an interesting, I mean,you kind of wanna sign a deal
where there, where it's a mutualpartnership.
Uh, my deal with True North wasgreat for me and for, I mean, I
don't know if it was as good forthem as they would've liked, but
I think it was, it was a, it wasa great relationship throughout
the whole term.
Um, so the word is they get to,you know, the wording in the

(06:19):
contracts is, or whatever, isthat they get to exploit.
Those records for the time thatthey own them.
So they wanna try and get themon television shows, um, and
films on commercials, whatever.
Um, or I guess potentially haveother artists cover your work.

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (06:37):
ev anytime that your song gets played on the radio,
they get a percentage.
And think like, there's themechanical side, there's
mechanical and what's the otherside?
I still get 50% of, of whatever

Yeah,

Leeroy (06:55):
the, the thing is.
So that was always great.

you just don't get the say in it.
If someone wants to use theirsong for a political rally and

Leeroy (07:04):
well, yeah, I, I don't know.
I think like any, you know, ifBob Dylan's selling his catalog
for whatever he sold it for,

yeah.

Leeroy (07:12):
that in the clause that it is, I bet you anything that
he's, he probably still has thefinal say.
I

Hmm,

Leeroy (07:19):
I, I think, you know,

yeah.

Leeroy (07:22):
anytime I would get a placement or a sink, they would
always ask permission if, if,that was cool with me.

Yeah.
That's good.

Leeroy (07:29):
I

It's not,

Leeroy (07:30):
con contract,

yeah.
It's not always the horror storythat we hear about By the time
it hits the media, right, ofpeople who are getting kind of
taken advantage of or they feellike they weren't, uh, included
anymore or corporate blah, blah,blah.

Leeroy (07:46):
I've always had, I've always had pretty good record
deals for the most part.
I kind of, there was some grayarea with some things with a
European deal that I had for along time with accounting at the
end.
but I will say that the, thelast record deal that I had with
True North was, it was a dreamcome true for me.

That's great.
So, I mean, obviously as a, as aguy who's put out 13 records
over 20 years, you've seen a lotof different things happen in
your artistic career, obviously,from what, maybe the typical up
and coming trying to build acareer in the early stages to
being signed, to not beingsigned, to having a pretty full

(08:28):
team, maybe to the do ityourself version, and maybe
that's come and gone over theyears.
so I'm, I'm always interested toask people because I think.
to, to ask you to go all the wayback and think like, does this
20 year career look at all likewhat you thought it was when
you've made your first record2004?

(08:51):
But, so actually

Leeroy (08:53):
Yeah, go

I, no, I was gonna say, actually, let's back
up before that.
'cause I'd, I'd like to hear alittle more about where you came
from.
I know you grew up and you weremore playing in punk bands and
you were in bands before yousort of decided to go your own
way and do the name thing.
how did that come about and whattimeframe?
And am I right thinking you wereout on the island growing up

(09:16):
kind of in those formativeyears.
How did that sort of developinto, I wanna play music.
Maybe my parents want me to dosomething else, um, but I'm
gonna do this, and then peoplestart responding and you start
doing stuff.
How did that happen for you?

Leeroy (09:30):
yeah.
Well, my parents have neverreally said boo about what they
wanted me to do.
I don't think they ever talkedabout anything like that

Okay.

Leeroy (09:39):
They've always been very, they've always been
supportive of my career.
Um, I just think they alwaysare.
You know, my parents were nevertogether while I was, conscious
of it.
my, I come from a blue collar.
Upbringing.
My dad's a car mechanic.
My brothers are all in thetrades.
so I grew up on the island herewith very much hunting, fishing,

(10:01):
race cars, dirt bikes, and Iguess, you know, I'm a product
of, like I said, parents werenever together.
And then stepparents, there'sdivorces.
So I was always kinda left to myown devices a lot of the time.
especially with emotionalissues.
I grew up in a pretty abusivesituation for the kind of

(10:23):
formative years of my childhoodand just kind of, escaped into
music and radio, uh, when I waslittle.
So what I was hearing on theradio was things like souls,
runaway train, um, Madonna's.
This used to be my playground.
bands.
That, I don't know, I guess likeREM it was like kind of that era

(10:44):
of nineties, late eighties,nineties

Hmm.

Leeroy (10:48):
of roots, pop rock, bottle rockets, bands like that,
that were

Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

Leeroy (10:55):
in Victoria.
Um, and then of course I wouldget the radio from across the
Georgia Strait into Vancouverand into Seattle.

Yeah.

Leeroy (11:04):
I was hit, I was listening, you know, I late at
night when I was supposed to besleeping, I would put my covers
over my head and I'd take mylittle clock radio and I'd tune
into KISM outta Seattle or, or,um, Z 93 out of, out of
Vancouver and just kind of getlost in these little worlds.
And was the first time that Iactually felt, felt moved by

(11:29):
art, you know?

Mm.

Leeroy (11:31):
Um, so that, and then my grand, my grandpa was in
radio for 50 years and I didwork experience at the radio
station.
That would, you know, later ongo to add my songs, which is
really, really cool to

Yeah.
That's very cool.

Leeroy (11:45):
experience in elementary and high school.
And I remember they actually putme on air for 15 minutes.
They're like, okay, you just gofor it.
And, uh, you know,

A different era.
A different era back then.

Leeroy (12:01):
Yeah, it was cool.
It was cool.
Um, then, you know, yeah, outtahigh school I was really into
punk rock in high school and uh,I remember going to see the
Rolling Stones.
I was probably in junior highand that was the first time that
I'd ever been exposed toanything like that,

Mm,

Leeroy (12:21):
in a live setting.
And I was like, huh, that's kindof, kind of what I wanna do.
Which is a blessing and a curse,you know?
'cause you're set the bar high.

absolutely.

Leeroy (12:32):
yeah.
I mean,

So what was the draw to punk?
What was the draw to punk?
Was there a version of punk?
I mean, that would've been what,earlier, mid nineties.
Punk wherein it was like,there's the version that was
always underground.
Like there was like the S nfugoing around and playing all the
small things, but then there wasall of a sudden Green Day signs
of mainstream record deal andyou have a whole new version of

(12:56):
punk.
What was the draw?
I mean, I, you know, there's alittle analysis that isn't a
hard reach of.
You know, teens who wereescaping things and escape into
music way into that genre.

Leeroy (13:10):
Heavier

sub-genres, even heavier music.
Yeah.
That had a lot of angst andexpression.
Um,

Leeroy (13:17):
Well, in hindsight,

a piece for you?

Leeroy (13:20):
yeah, of course.
In hindsight it started withGreen Day, uh, with Dukey for
sure.
You

Hmm.
Yeah.

Leeroy (13:26):
because there's angry music.
I declare I don't care no more.
You know, it's just like when akid hears that who comes from a
troubled home, oh shit, okay,finally Art.
That, that speaks to how I feel.

Yeah.

Leeroy (13:42):
you know, green Day Offspring, I was still, you
know, probably junior high maybeeven late elementary school or
middle school or whatever it wascalled.
And I remember distinctly, but Iremember also hearing like
through, through friends, oldersiblings, hearing the Lemonheads

(14:02):
and um, of those other kind of,those like nineties alt bands.
But, you know, as soon as Iheard Green Day, it was, it was
on.
And then of course through GreenDay, and skateboarding, you kind
of get into, remember thosecompilations were.
Really huge.
So then it was no effectspropaganda.

(14:23):
But then when I

Hmm.

Leeroy (14:23):
to high school and started going to punk shows here
in Victoria, of course we havethe day glow portions here in
Victoria.
So

Hmm.

Leeroy (14:31):
you go see the day glows and you're like, this is a
whole nother level of aggressionand punk rock and humor.
And um, and so then you start toget into those kind of bands,
which I guess would be, delos.
And then I, I always was kind ofattracted to the bands that were

(14:52):
on the rock and roll spectrum ofthings.
So Super Suckers were one of myfavorite bands.

Hmm.

Leeroy (14:58):
Uh, black Halos was my favorite band quite a long time.
And I befriended the guys in theBlack Halos.
Um, I was even gonna try out forbass for them for a while.
And I remember I was living withthe hot, hot heat guys, uh, and
basically

Yeah,

Leeroy (15:14):
them, begging them to show me how to, uh.
play bass

that's great.

Leeroy (15:19):
Kayla's records.

I.

Leeroy (15:21):
Um, but I, I chickened out from auditioning, but, uh,
which is for the better I think.
But, um, so heavy music and thenprobably through the super
suckers I heard Steve Earl andthrough my best friend Tyson,

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (15:34):
he played me El Corozon one day and I was like really
into it and I thought lookingthrough the booklets on the cd,
which is, you know, a shame thatthat is kind of gone by the
wayside.

Hmm

Leeroy (15:46):
I looked at, at the, the credits and I'm like, holy
shit.
The super suckers are on thisrecord.
about just over 10 years ago Iwas opening up for Steve in
Chicago and I told the storyabout how I came to his music
and, um, Ron Heathman from theSuper Suckers who's passed away
a couple years ago now, but hecame up to me and said, I'm Ron
from the Super suckers.

(16:07):
Like, thank you for, for

Oh, wow.

Leeroy (16:09):
Yeah.
So it

What a moment.

Leeroy (16:11):
it's come full circle.
so, you know, through that,through that period of punk
rock, which was important ingoing to all ages shows, but
then kind of getting into theharder punk rock, which led to
harder drinking, harder drugsfor me.
Um, you know, I don't regretthat period of time and I still

(16:32):
love that kind of music, but Ijust wish I was a little more
aware of the pitfalls

Yeah.

Leeroy (16:39):
were available for a young kid that looked up to
older people that were maybe notthe best role models at the
time.

Yeah.

Leeroy (16:50):
and then, you know, that just naturally through
bands like the super suckersbands like Social

Yeah.

Leeroy (16:56):
starts to lead to roots music, right?
Like Mike Ness would, we wassing Johnny Cash covers and, and
you start to go, oh, what's,what's all this stuff about?
And, and then I came into RootsMusic through Steve Burl and
Ryan Adams and.
Ryan Adams was like a big onefor me back then because I'd
never seen anybody with JetBlack hair in a Ramone's t-shirt

(17:19):
playing an acoustic guitar andmaking music that sounded like
Tom Petty.
And I went, oh, okay.

Yeah.
I'm glad you said that, Leeroy,because I like, I wanted, I,
I've wanted to put you right onthat one for a long time, but
it, it's felt not right to, evenfor the last three or four
years, he's, he's had a bit of acloud over his name obviously.
Um, but aside from that, he wasvery formative for me too.

(17:44):
And I,

Leeroy (17:44):
yeah.

I know from, not from when I like, so I, I, I
began, you, you got on mypersonal radar around your
Radiant land record, I think.

Leeroy (17:54):
cool.

but you know, it was honestly, yeah, I would say
it was the, everything is realrecord, which came out I think
after I.
When we met and got to hang outat the Peak Performance Project
stuff, um, that felt like therock and roll album to me from
Ryan Adams, uh, so much.

(18:14):
And besides a lot of that stuff.
So I love that, you know, thatthat's just an honest influence
for you because I can hear it somuch.
They just seem to fit and blend.
I mean, I mean, there's a couplethings I definitely want to talk
about you'cause I love yourexperience and that you're
willing to talk about it.

(18:34):
And, but to sort of move wherewe were moving, I'm, I'm curious
then, like, so you're, you hadentries and you had gateways
into essentially the kind ofcareer in music that you've
created as far as sort of, uh,genre and what quote unquote
lane you ended up in.
So you didn't make a record,like your first record lands you

(18:56):
in that.
You know, as Leeroy Stagger, I'mwondering how that specifically
came to you starting to makemusic, and that was the kind of
music you made, what people werearound you were responding to,
or whether you just needed tomake sort of a thing.

Leeroy (19:14):
No, it was very much the people who were around me at
the time.
So, um, like I said, I'd come, Iwas in a punk rock band called
The Staggers with, um, my bestfriend Tyson, who you, you've
definitely met

Yep.
Yep.

Leeroy (19:26):
he's coming in from Alberta today actually to visit.
so the Staggers was great,really fun, ridiculous, you
know, lots of stories, thatdisbanded.
I piled up with the Hot, hotHeat guys'cause they had, we
played some shows together andthey really liked what I was
doing and liked that I was,crazy and, and had these great

(19:47):
antics and was, you know,inspired by Billy Hopeless from
the, the, um, the Black Halos.
And so we became fast friendsand I toured around with them
for a couple years, lived withthem, made some music with them.
and uh, and we used to hang outat this bar called Logan's.
I was, I remember being on the

Is it still there?
Logan's Pub still there?

Leeroy (20:10):
it's shut down, which

Uh, that's too bad.

Leeroy (20:13):
But I remember being on the Hot, hot heat bus with Ryan
Adams, uh, rock and roll.
I think it was the Rock and Rollrecord maybe gold.
And they were just, they wereso, they were pissed off that I
was listening to, but I was soobsessed with this sound.
so after that tour, you know, Istepped off the bus and was
like, here I go, like, this iswhat I'm gonna do.

Hmm.

Leeroy (20:36):
that time in Victoria was insane.
It was so cool for Roots music,and it was all based around
Carolyn, mark and Tolan McNeiland their house, um, on Chambers
Street and, and also the HootNanny that Carolyn would host
every Sunday at Logan's.
And this thing, it was nuts.
It was just, it was essentiallyan open mic for roots musicians.

(21:00):
would pick kind of the.
of the songwriters

curate, actually curate an open stage.
Yeah.

Leeroy (21:08):
And, and I mean, and then after, after, um, the Hoot
Nanny, we'd go to Carolyn andLin's house and we'd party we'd
play guitars in the kitchen andwe'd smoke and drink and there
would be some, sometimes somesnacks.
and that was what we did everySunday, unless Carolyn was on
tour, then we wouldn't go to herhouse, but we'd still do the

(21:30):
Hoot Nanny.
so through that, I can'tremember who it was that was
maybe, maybe Carolyn had got meup, or someone had got me up at
the Hoot Nanny to play some ofmy songs.
And, you know, I was young andhad black hair and looked like
Ryan Adams in a leather jacket,and it was a punk kind of
transitioning into roots music.

(21:51):
so Tolan Tolan would makerecords in the basement of that
house.
finally when I was stupid enoughto convince him to make a record
on me when I really had nobusiness making a record.
we made a record called SixTales of Danger, which was an EP
turned into a, a record calledDear Love.
And, um, right off the bat, alabel called Magic Teeth who put

(22:15):
out, some really cool indierecords at the time, run Chico
Run.
And, uh, I can't remember whoelse right now.
They decided to put out DearLove, and through that I had met
Danny Michelle.

Hmm.

Leeroy (22:31):
I'd become a fan of his.
and we had talked about making arecord.
So at that time, magic Teeth hadput out some money to go make a
record with Danny.
A label called Bupa came out ofVancouver

Yep.

Leeroy (22:45):
decided to sign me.
In the midst of that.
you know, I don't think theyever really did pay Gareth for,
for magic teeth for putting out,uh, putting all that money out.
But plus Gareth, he is a patronof the patron saying of the
arts, you know, at this point.
and we had a good laugh aboutthat a couple years ago too.
But, um, I, you know, so, uh,right off the bat, and I

(23:07):
remember through the hot, hotheat connection too, I remember
I got a phone call my mom at mymom's house and my mom called
and, or my mom says, someone'son the phone from New York and
they, or from a record labelfrom New York and they were
interested in signing me rightoff the bat.
And I was just like, what?
Oh, ah, what?

(23:27):
This is

Wow.

Leeroy (23:29):
Um, so I didn't end up signing that, but I signed with
Bopa out of Vancouver.
'cause I thought, you know, Iguess I had some foresight to
think, well, something, someoneout of Vancouver is gonna be
easier for me than, than New

Yeah.

Leeroy (23:41):
Um.
started a very long relationshipwith Bupa.
Uh, they managed me and they putout my records and we had a
really good run, you know, forthe most part.
And then of course, the businesscollapsed in whatever that was,
2003 or 2006 or something, 2008maybe,

yeah,

Leeroy (24:00):
everything was transitioned to streaming and,
and Napster and, and basicallypirating music.
Um, so that label collapsed.
Uh, sadly, I mean, I rememberbeing on tour in the States and
in all the magazines and I wasmeeting every big city I'd go
into.
I would go to the distributorand play for all the people.

(24:21):
And by the end of the tour, allthose folks that I just met and
who were championing my recordwere all, they were all losing
their jobs.

yeah,

Leeroy (24:28):
so, you

yeah.

Leeroy (24:30):
I was still, still too young to understand any aspect
of the business, and I wasdrinking heavily and.

And were you still navigating, were you
navigating that stuff byyourself?
Had you.
Formed any relationship with anykind of a manager or agent or
anybody, or we just trying tofigure it out or talking to your
buddies and,

Leeroy (24:50):
I had management through, um, through mpa.
Shannon Martin managed me for along

Okay.
Yeah, I know Shannon.

Leeroy (24:57):
yeah, which she managed Dan for a while too, so, so
like, yes, guiding, yes.
Like they were good at thebusiness end of things.
and, you know, maybe I just,maybe they had life just advice
for me at the time and maybe Ijust didn't wanna listen to it.
But,

Yeah.

Leeroy (25:15):
I was also kind of around great business music
business people, like my friend.
Blaine Kaplan, who, um, manages,he managed well.
He tour managed hot, hot heat.
That's why I ha how I knew I gotto know him we'd stayed good
friends.
I'd go hang out with him inCalifornia and do all sorts of
dumb stuff with him.
But he managed, um, the sublimeestate at the time and managed

(25:39):
Cornelius from, um, and hemanages Guitar Romanos now.
so he

Okay.

Leeroy (25:46):
a really good, good business mentor for me.
but I just don't think I wasready or fully formed as an
artist then to kind of doanything significant.
I wasn't mentored artisticallyand know, can't go

Is anybody who, I mean, how do we mentor

Leeroy (26:08):
that

people?

Leeroy (26:09):
I, I work with a lot of young artists now and I do my
best

Well, I mean, that's a good point.
Like you have, you have arecording studio, you do
producing, so you now you, know,for that window of time you're
in a relationship with them.

Leeroy (26:24):
yeah,

Um, yeah, that's a really good point.
I just asked the question, howdo we mentor artists?
And now I can think of off thebat, people telling stories of
how some producer really kind ofpeople on the right path.

Leeroy (26:38):
Well,

cool.

Leeroy (26:39):
I think I, I make an, I make a point to, to do as much
as I can because for that exactreason, not because I need the
accolades or whatever, because Iwant artists to make healthy
decisions and also, make sounddecisions on where their next
step is, because nobody, I mean,I did have great mentors and

(27:01):
people like John Alice and stufflike that, but that, you know,
that lasts

Yeah.

Leeroy (27:06):
so long.
I guess, I don't know.
I'm working with a band rightnow called Pony Gold.
And, um, I chop in the recordfor them and send it.
I sent it to three

Yeah, yeah.

Leeroy (27:16):
You know what I mean?
And they've, it's like, if Idon't do that, who else is gonna

Well, I know what you mean.
I remember Chris Winters ofCaptain Tractor recorded our
first, my band's first recordwith us, and he, he put his neck
on the line all over the place.
He didn't have to, but he wasdoing the same thing.
Uh, it's pretty significant toa, to an up and coming artist.

Leeroy (27:39):
Well, I, I had, uh, I had eight songwriters at the
house yesterday for a songcircle.
It was the first time

Wow.

Leeroy (27:45):
that.
And, um, because I, you know,I've been back here on the
island for five years and onething I, I just like, there's no
community here.
There's like that I had inSouthern Alberta.
It

Hmm.

Leeroy (27:58):
exist it did back in the day when I was kicking
around Carrot with

Yeah.

Leeroy (28:03):
and all those guys.
So I thought, well, instead ofbitching about it and
complaining about it, why don'tI do something about it?

Yeah.
Who else but you?
Yeah,

Leeroy (28:10):
we hosted the Song Circle last night, and it was
amazing.
And it was so great.
you know, I'm not gonna sayanything unless I'm asked, but a
lot of these young artists areasking me, what do you think
about this bridge?
What do you think about this?
And it's like, as a producer,you know, you

yeah,

Leeroy (28:25):
I'm happy to get my hands dirty.
And like that is a mentorship.
I,

yeah.
Yep.

Leeroy (28:30):
that growing up and I wish I did.
And I mean, I, I, in, in a lotof ways I did, I did have that
through people like Tolan DanWeisenberger who taught me how
about guitar tone or somethinglike that.

Yeah.

Leeroy (28:42):
um,

Well that's a great point.
Leeroy, like, like I, it makesme think of,'cause I've actually
had the good fortune already.
A couple of the guests on thepodcast have been involved in
that peak performance projectdevelopment program slash
contest, and you were in thesecond year of the Alberta one
in 2015, I believe.
And so you got to experience thething that we sort of laughed

(29:05):
about, which was at the, thebootcamp where people would play
a three song set and then they'dalmost have like an American
Idol panel of people give themsome feedback.
And a, it's a palpable memory ofhow many artists had never
actually had somebody stand upand tell them what they thought
about their song structure.
Like I'll never forget, uh, RyanGoldman of Mother, mother.

(29:28):
Always telling everybody, itbecame a bit of a, a meme around
the camp afterwards of, youknow, that chorus is actually a
pre chorus.
You need to go write a realchorus all the time.
and there's not a lot of placesfor people to get mentored.
I think that's, uh, it's prettysweet if your songwriting circle
turns into an opportunity foryou to use you've learned, help

(29:52):
people out.

Leeroy (29:53):
it's gonna only make me a better songwriter too, right?
Being around songwriters isgreat, but so many of them are
just kind of out and outer spacewith no mentorship on how to,

Yeah.

Leeroy (30:05):
you

Yeah.

Leeroy (30:06):
be in the world.
Like, so much of it is just howdo you, how do you be in the
world healthily in this worldthat we do?
so I'm just, I wanna, if, ifthere's people that need that,
I'm, I'm always here to help.
And I try to do that with peoplethat I work with sometimes.
Like, you know, I, I've got apretty good bullshit detector

(30:26):
for nefarious people, and, andI've tried to get into
mentorship positions withartists that I admire, and I've
seen good and the bad of that,

Yeah.

Leeroy (30:38):
you know what I mean?
So, um, I.
So I'm, I'm a little bit pickywith who I bring into my circle,
but always available for advice,I guess.

if it's okay, let me dive into that a little bit
about your life and how you've,I think, accumulated a lot of
the right, uh, the, a lot of theright experiences to give the
right kind of advice, um, fromwhat I've observed, like I,

Leeroy (31:03):
in, in doing the

well, okay.
Yeah.
That's a great way to put it.
Right.
That's a great way to put it,the right experience in doing
the wrong thing.
Um, you already alluded to yourearly days, which I think are
pretty typical of.
People who are just losingthemself in music and they're
seen and maybe trying to escapefrom whatever's happening in
their life or their whatever,um, about alcoholism and

(31:26):
partying and just being crazy.
which, uh, you know, is maybe arite of passage for adolescence,
obviously for just, uh, age, butit kind of gets fueled at, at
it's different now.
And you can maybe comment onwhat scenes and industry is like
now, but I know like thenineties into the two thousands
was still the stereotype heydayof, of pretty

Leeroy (31:51):
and

sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
Absolutely.
And I know that's a big part ofyour story and I'm wondering if
you can tell a little bit aboutthat.
'cause I know it was a big partof your story, how you,

Leeroy (32:02):
Yeah.

as I've heard you tell it before, it got lost in
it for a while.
And if you could sort of

Leeroy (32:06):
Yeah.

a picture about what that looked like and how
you're able to get out of it andhow.
You know, I don't know, like, itthis way, I, I've talked to a
few people in who are in, intreatment or in aa right?
And you hear them

Leeroy (32:20):
Yeah.

and recovery and they, and for them, they
couldn't go back to the jobperhaps if the job was part of
the,

Leeroy (32:28):
sure.

introduced them to it.
Right.
But you, the music industry, youcan't get away from it.

Leeroy (32:35):
Well, my version of the industry is very different now
than, than it used to be.

Yeah.

Leeroy (32:41):
but yeah, no, you're right.
And also that era was reallydark.
I mean, it was fun, but inhindsight it was, it was rough
and there wasn't, I.
There wasn't a lot of peoplekind of check in things and
going, Hey, are you okay?
know, maybe let's just put itthis way.
I had, my situation hadprogressed to a point where I,

(33:05):
the last thing I cared aboutwas, was performing.
I just couldn't wait to get offstage so I could drink myself to
sleep.
to the point, it got to thepoint where I couldn't get
myself from gig to gig.
The last, the last kind of tourbefore I got s, first time I got
sober, I couldn't physically getmyself from Kona to Edmonton.

(33:25):
And someone in the other band Iwas touring with had to drive my
vehicle with me in it

Hmm.

Leeroy (33:32):
to Edmonton.
And then I realized I'd kind ofhit my rock bottom, on that end
of that tour.
And, uh, I.
Realized I needed to change,change because I, I did want to
play music and to be in, in thatworld, but I realized that I
wasn't gonna be able to.

(33:53):
and so I, so I ended up gettingsober.
I got sober in on tour in Alaskawhile places in the

What year?
What year was this?

Leeroy (34:01):
uh, 17 years ago.
So whatever that is, I don't

Okay.

Leeroy (34:05):
that would be, but 17 years this year.
and, I'd got, well, I'd gottensober for a month and then I
flew to Scotland to tour overthere and I thought, well, I'll
just try scotch, because I'dnever really gone down that road
yet.
And, uh, so then, yeah, andthen, and then that was in like
a November of that year, andthen by January was in Alaska

(34:26):
and realized I needed, I endedup going to an AA meeting, just
by chance by these two artists Iwas touring with.
They were going, and, um, Isaid, where are you going?
And they're like, oh, we're justgoing to a thing here.
And I kept pushing'em, well,where are you going?
And they finally said, well,we're going to an AA meeting.
And I said, well, I'll go.
And they're like, really?

(34:46):
I said, yeah.
And they're like, we figured youhad a good 10 years left and you
still, but, um, I went to an AAmeeting and I, I, that was it.
I never drank.
I haven't drank in since, youknow, knock on

Yeah.

Leeroy (34:58):
and I worked a program and still, you know, still work
a program and, there was aperiod, there was a period for
about three years after I'dgotten sober.
I felt pretty lost in the musicbusiness.
I felt like I'd burnt a lot ofbridges.
I felt like people weren'treally, Paying attention to what

(35:19):
I was doing.
I think I'd lost my record deal.
And, I mean, the business wasbad enough, but maybe that, you
know, now that I'm saying it outloud, maybe that was just a
result of, of getting as anartist in the last couple years
and kind of falling into myaddiction.
So I felt like I had to reallystart to dig myself out of that
pit.

(35:40):
And, peak performance projectwas kind of the first time where
people started to take meseriously again.
And of course I won thing and,and, you know, I don't, I don't
have anything bad.
It was an incredible experience.
Um, I think I went into thatthing different than most of the
other artists there.

(36:00):
And I know me and you have

percent.
You did?
Yep.

Leeroy (36:03):
but, um, I was, I had something to prove, you know
what I

Yep.

Leeroy (36:08):
said, I felt like I was pretty low going into that thing
As it progressed, I realizedlike I've got, actually got a
lot to offer, what's

Hmm.

Leeroy (36:19):
here.
And I have to prove it to myselfthat, I'm an artist.
I'm also entertain.
I I need to be entertaining.
I need to find my spirit and getmy spirit back.
so, so of course, you know, I, Iwon that thing.
And then right before I won, ofcourse there was management
offers, label offers,

Yep.

Leeroy (36:41):
and I said, um, to the management offers, lot of it was
like, let's just wait and seeyou win.
And I was like, nuh, either yousign me now before they announce
winners or fuck you.

Yeah.

Leeroy (36:56):
And Kate, while he was like,yep, I'm in, let's do it.
Um, so I've been with Katesince, so I guess that's coming
up on 10 years.

That's great.

Leeroy (37:06):
And I

I.

Leeroy (37:06):
True North, uh, right away, like yeah, I signed with
True North.
They bought two records, two newrecords, and they bought my
whole back catalog.
and so it was like game on afterPeak and it was like, okay,
you're an artist.
I built this studio, I built theRetone Ranch in Lethbridge.

(37:27):
was incredible.
I made, love verses, which is,you know, my most successful
record to

Hmm.

Leeroy (37:33):
I made Strange Path and, you know, we had Pete
Thomas from, from theAttractions come up from la and
Paul Rigby and Brad Barr and theBarr Brothers come in to produce
my records

Yeah.

Leeroy (37:45):
And it was,

That's cool.

Leeroy (37:47):
fantastic.
And I, I worked with some, um,great artists in there, BL and
Misha and the Span and tipTaylor rolled in one day and we
cut a really cool song.
It was great.
And then of course, you know,strange Path had just come out.
We were touring that was, was, Ithink it confused some people.

(38:11):
And then of course the pandemichits and

Yeah.

Leeroy (38:15):
halfway through April maybe, oh, I'd, I'd made, I'd
started a record.
I'd made a record calledDystopian Weekends Vancouver in
March of 2020.
So that session cut, cut short,but the day that we finished, I
was racing home'cause they werestarting to close all the
schools.

Yeah.

Leeroy (38:36):
and we thought the world was ending.
So then, you know, that goes onfor a couple months and I just
looked at my wife Kobe, and Isaid, I don't, I think it's time
to leave.
Like, I think I need to leaveAlberta.
I don't think, you know, I waskind of like, I don't know if
this is where I wanna ride outGlobal Pandemic and.
I saw what was happeningpolitically.

(38:56):
and we, so we sold our housewith that beautiful studio and
we came out here to the coastsand I had my small little studio
and I loved it.
It was great.
It was like I had this littleapartment a

Yeah.

Leeroy (39:10):
it was a recording studio.
then, um, of course in 2021, wehad a major atmospheric river
through and it put three feet ofwater in my studio and
completely destroyed the studio.

Yeah.

Leeroy (39:24):
Yeah, so that was traumatic.
There's actually a documentaryjust saw the first cut
yesterday, and it's beautiful.
It's about the last three yearsof my life I guess, based around
the flood, and it has a hugetrauma piece.

(39:46):
Of course, we talked a littlebit about my childhood, which
was very traumatic.
I lost, uh, a brother veryyoung.
So this documentary this andthen, and then the last couple
years of kind of regaining myspirit, finding who I truly am
through art.

(40:06):
Um, it's a, it's a beautifulfilm.
My friend Erica Chan made it.
I'm, I'm excited.
We're trying to figure out how,

How to put it out and how to, yeah.

Leeroy (40:14):
how do, how do you get eyeballs on this

Yeah.

Leeroy (40:17):
it also talks about, so the flood and then the rebuild
of this new studio space that,um, I have now, which was,
again, built from the ground up.
Like Lethbridge.
It's about

Yeah,

Leeroy (40:27):
half the size, maybe even a little smaller.
So it's a small version of that.
But it's, it's a

it's beautiful.
The pictures are beautiful.
I've seen you post online.
Um, I wanna ask you, Leeroy.
Leeroy,'cause you know, so thisover 20 year span, it's not just
restricted to when you releasedalbums, obviously, that you've
just pursued this life.
I mean, we've just brieflytouched on in a few minutes some
like incredible highs andincredible lows that someone

(40:55):
might go through, right?
Like, like being able to escapefrom the thing.
Maybe you want to escape from,even if when we're young, it's a
little more subconscious thanconscious, but to be able to
get.
The kind of responses you had tostart to get some success, get
calls from a New York recorddeal.
I think the very first time Iheard your name was someone

(41:17):
saying, have you heard aboutLeeroy Stagger?
He like, landed a song at theend of Grey's Anatomy or
something, which back then paida lot of money.
Right?
So then artists, artists aregonna talk to each other about
that.
Like, Hey, this like localCanadian guy got a song, a
placement and that was just a, abrand new world at the time.
Yeah.
Twice.
So, um, so you've had thesethings happen, and then you hit

(41:42):
rock bottom, as you said, inyour personal life.
Um, and the alcoholism caught upwith you and you have to rebuild
that.
You get into the peakperformance project.
you win a hundred, you win ahundred grand.
Yeah, I haven't even talkedabout some of this stuff.
And you've got these like upsand downs, and then you build a
studio, the, you, you move, yourebuild a studio again, it, it

(42:04):
floods.
You have to rebuild it.
Again, I guess the thread I'mreally curious about you,
Leeroy, is, uh, what's the thingthat keeps you going?
Most artists can't even putsecond or a third record
together, alone 13 through thosekind of highs that make you

(42:25):
think I'm gonna be okay foreverto probably feeling like I don't
know what tomorrow is, quiteoften.
So, what's, what's the thing,what's it been for you?
I know I've, I've watched youmake some choices with your
health and and, and be openabout that.
I'm just wondering what thethings are that have kept you

(42:46):
going through these kinds ofebbs and flows, man.

Leeroy (42:50):
Probably stubbornness more than anything.
that kind of, I told you sobecause I've just been told so
many times along the way.
or pushed aside as not the coolperson.
I mean, of course I've had thosemoments where I, I've been the,
the cool person.
but honestly, I, I really dofeel like all of that, and even

(43:12):
the film kind of portrays thishas led up to now, which is,
this is what it's beenportraying or pushing me,
funneling me towards, which is,is maybe, maybe I'm supposed to
be a light in the wilderness, amentor for these great artists
to, to do this.

(43:32):
To not have to suffer the wayways that maybe I've had to.
but also, like for mepersonally, I'm more content
with myself than I've ever havebeen.
And you know, I don't, I'm notas, as I famous or big as an
artist as some of my friends.

(43:54):
but I've managed to have acareer this.
And, you know, I live in areally home with a beautiful
studio attached to it with tworeally lovely artistic kids and
a in a healthy marriage.
how, you know, like I don't,I've, I've kind of won the

(44:15):
fucking lottery.
What more could I ask for?
Like, I see some of my friendsthat are, you know, more famous
and, and busier, I see theterror in their eyes a lot of
the time where, you know, it'sjust the,

Yeah.

Leeroy (44:30):
kind of scooted this great, like, middle way, you
know, as, as a Buddhist, we talkabout the middle way, a lot.
And so I think the way thatI've, answer your question, I've
just held on the whole timenever, I just never backed down.

(44:54):
know what I mean?
I just never backed down frombeing told certain things.
And also like having moments inmy life in this career where
I've been pushed around by somereally big people and it's
broken my spirit.
it's broken my spirit, but I.
There has always been some sortof underdog quality heart that

(45:15):
says, well, okay, you broke myspirit, but now I'm gonna build
it up better.
And not to spite you, I'm gonnaprove to myself that I'm as a
creator, worthy as a human beingto, help people and, and in the
process heal myself.

(45:36):
you know, in, in aa we talkabout the, the 12 step and as of
being of service

Yeah.

Leeroy (45:43):
people in recovery.
So in, in some ways, my careeris a 12 step for people, not
necessarily in recovery, butpeople that need some sort of
guiding help, you know, havehaving a a sober voice in a
pretty chaotic landscape.

(46:04):
kind of why I'm

Yeah,

Leeroy (46:06):
I choose to, to stay here.

that's a, that's a really beautiful sentiment,
bud.
I mean, I feel like the older Iget, obviously I, I think I'm
farther along than you.
I just, it becomes even more andmore polarizing the longer I
meet the people who have beenaround to be, are you in the
jaded.
Camp, uh, or you in anoptimistic camp.

(46:31):
And it can often feel like thejaded or the louder voices,
especially if you still attendmusic conferences or any of
these panel discussions orindustry sessions or, or I can't
imagine now, like that used tobe for us, the only way we
actually heard from all thosepeople.
And now obviously in, in the waythe world is in social media

(46:52):
and, and accessibility toinformation, you could be
literally just overwhelmed withall of these different messages.
So, um, being a light, being alight to people is pretty,
pretty incredible.
I think also, and tell me, I, I,I wondered this observation and
then you started talking at thevery beginning, just about your

(47:12):
family and where you come fromand, you know, the way your
music has evolved, uh, I feelover this time and even reading
what, what's been written aboutthe new record.
I mean, everybody always, theirbio always says it's like their
best work to date, but it feelslike there's a different kind of
sincerity with you in this one,in this record about saying

(47:35):
that.
And I think it's interestingthat it this sort of zen ness
of, being at peace withyourself, but even sitting in
the pocket musically feels sowell tied to where you came from
and the land you're talkingabout and the hunting, the
fishing, there were blue collarworkers, were that version

(47:58):
society, right, of of, of howpeople sort of live together.
It feels like it sits in thatpocket really well.
And I'm wondering if you feltlike there was that kind of, uh.
if I want to use that word, uh,with the past,

Leeroy (48:15):
that's a good, good observation.
truth be told, it took me threetimes to make this record.
Like I recorded it three timesand to the, to mastering and
everything.

like the songs, the same songs, the whole works

Leeroy (48:31):
yeah,

through.

Leeroy (48:32):
the first,

I.

Leeroy (48:33):
version of it is a really cool version.
I recorded it in the, the, the,the basement studio before it
got destroyed, and it was kindof, I made it in lockdown.
So the drums were recorded inLos Angeles.
Pete, Pete Thomas, tracked it inLos Angeles.
and that was a cool version.
And then, I had a bit of afalling out with the co-producer

(48:57):
at the end of it, and that justkind of ollied it for me.
And then I realized, okay, well,out of the lockdown shit, you
just felt icky about all thatstuff, right?
And I just felt like

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (49:10):
raw and real and I, I need, so then I booked a session
in, in, in Vancouver atafterlife, and it was seven a
seven piece band live off thefloor, no headphones.
So that was the second iterationof it.
And then that session on thethird or fourth day, the
engineer got covid and shut thewhole session down.

(49:30):
I

Oh man.

Leeroy (49:31):
know, I had half the band had flown in for the
session,

that's heartbreaking.

Leeroy (49:36):
yeah.
So we, we finished the recordand it was cool.
but again, it just, it, andthen.
I something, I was ready to pullthe trigger on it.
It was ready to go.
We mastered it.
And then again, I just balkedagain.
Once again, I balked at it.
And I had just finished my newstudio and started kind of

(49:56):
messing around on some things.
right.
And there was a couple managersin my circle that were like,
this record's great Leeroy.
It's a, but it's a bedroomrecord.
It's a headphone record and itdoesn't have any singles.
motherfucker, like, okay.
all right.
And again, it's that fuckingall.
Well, I'll show you then.
So I wrote, I wrote, what did Iwrite?

(50:17):
I wrote, um, watermelon Pink,which is, you know, it's a
single, it's a banger.
And then we, we tried to put itwith the other stuff.
I'm like, this doesn't fit.
Let me just

Hmm.

Leeroy (50:26):
it.
Let me rewrite this wholerecord.
Let me recut it.
and then I cut DennisEllsworth's count to 10, which I
think is fucking brilliant song.
Also I wrote, um, mediocrityPill with Jay from Bedwin Sound
Clash, and I just kind of was onthis whole nother tangent of
this record that became 3:00 AMRevelations.

(50:48):
So yeah, it does, it feels likea really, like, um, it just
feels like a really, uh, I don'twanna say confident record, but
it does, it feels like that'swhat I wanted to do, and it
feels very settled.
and, uh, you know, yeah, I, Ido, I think it's the best rec
record I've written.
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I think it's close.
It's up there.

(51:08):
It feels really, really solid tome.
You know, love versus Is isevery time I go back to that
record I was like, wow.
I was like, I was into it onthat one.
Um, strange path I'm reallyproud of too, actually.
But, 3:00 AM Revelations isgreat.
I mean, you know, we live in abus, a world now where,
everything's so quick.
Right.

Yeah.

Leeroy (51:28):
And I've always been an artist where, you know, I'm
always onto the next thing.

Hmm.
Well that kind of shows then howmuch you've produced.
That's for sure.

Leeroy (51:37):
well, yeah, and I don't feel like I, I'm super prolific,

You just keep, but you just keep moving.
You just keep doing.
That's it.

Leeroy (51:46):
it's also like, if we're fucking disciplined and
we're professionals, like I, whycan't I write 12, 10 to 12 songs
in a year?
You know what I

Well a hundred percent like that doesn't get
talked about.

Leeroy (51:57):
yeah.
And, and to, to that res forthat respect.
Like, I'm not making a record ayear anymore.
I'm, I, and I'm writing, I'mwriting a lot, but.
also abandoning a hell of a lotmore than I ever have or

Hmm.

Leeroy (52:11):
songs.
'cause I'm going, they're not,they're not as good as, as they,
I

Yeah,

Leeroy (52:15):
be.
Especially when I'm producing somany great artists right now,
setting the bar, you know what Imean?
So

that's pretty great.

Leeroy (52:23):
Yeah,

Yeah.

Leeroy (52:25):
Um,

Well I was gonna ask you about that.
Well, I was gonna ask you aboutthat because I always find it
you, I mean, you made thestatement.
I'm always kind of onto the nextthing, and I'm always interested
if you, we've been in it thislong, what is still inspiring
you?
Like when we're first starting,we're just.
We're always inspired.

(52:46):
Right.
Those first handful of records.
So just trying to recreate thething that our heroes were
making.
We,'cause we want to be part ofthat same fabric.
Right?
Like for you Steve Earl, and youhad a great chance to actually
play with him and, and meet theman who was a, an inspiration
and idol.
But you know, you get another 10years down the road.

(53:06):
Like what's the thing that'sinspiring you now when it comes
to creating?

Leeroy (53:10):
Yeah, it's not, I think it, it, I've abandoned trying to
be my heroes in the

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (53:17):
records, and

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (53:18):
they're so good and people respect them more than
ever.
Um, I am just really, I mean, Ihave no desire to be, I don't
think I have, I don't think,anyway, I don't have any desire
to have a hit song on the radioor, you know, you talked about
Ryan Gilderman from Mother.
Mother.

(53:39):
I just like, I'm, they're so bigright now.
I'm so happy for their success,but I.
I can't help but feel thatthere's a lot of suffering in
that success.
I don't know.

Well, he has, he has a history.
Go ahead.
Sorry.

Leeroy (53:54):
No, no.
I saw them at the other day atthe airport and I, I mean, I
don't know if Ryan recognizednot, but I was kind of just, I'd
just flown in and was, I wastired, but I just looked at it.
I'm like, that doesn't look likesomebody who's getting what they

Well,

Leeroy (54:08):

well he's got a history like you of, of some.
Overcoming substances and stuffand Yeah.

Leeroy (54:16):
that it's great and I hope it's everything that they
wanted, but I know a lot offamous people and I don't want
that what they, what they haveto deal with or, the kind of
people that it's kind of turnedthem into or, or like the
self-importance of it all.
'cause at the end of the day,it's like, you know, are people
gonna be listening to ourrecords in a hundred years?
Are people gonna be listening tothe Beatles in a hundred years?

(54:37):
Probably not.

Hmm.

Leeroy (54:39):
I mean?

Yeah.

Leeroy (54:40):
what we do is like, it matters in the moment and it
matters in the people that wetouch.
And it matters in our circles,in our

Yeah.

Leeroy (54:47):
in our

Yeah.

Leeroy (54:48):
and in, and in the relationships that we have with
our kids and the people thatneed us.
You know, like I, I, I time foranybody that comes to my shows.
I hang out at the merch table,at, at all the breaks, and I
talk to everybody that is thereto see me or that needs me or
needs to tell me how my music ormy voice and on the radio, help

(55:12):
them through a really toughtime.
have time for all those people.
And if I was, you know, somebodyelse or I, I more my more famous
friends, they don't have thetime for that.
And I think that that's, that'sthe whole reason where, why I, I
guess, Where I am, I suppose, isthat I'm actually, I have the

(55:34):
opportunity to connect withthose people in a real,
tangible,

Yeah.
Well that's, that's very well,that's very inspiring all by
itself.
Just I think anytime you seesomebody who's in alignment.
I've been using this word in mylife a lot lately.
I recently had to deliver aspeech at my father-in-law's
funeral, and, you know, I justtalked about.
How impacting it is.

(55:59):
Like you never, I, I guess Iused the word, you never really
know how crooked you are untilyou're pushed up against
somebody so perfectly aligned.
Right?
And, and you know, it's anotherversion of being a light to
people, I think, where you'renot doing it, you know, to spite
them or to hold other peopledown, but you're just, you're

(56:20):
willing to allow that version ofyourself impact the people
around you.
And, and it does like it.
It can't help but do so.
And, um, I just want you toknow, I find that really
inspiring.
It was really interesting toknow at where you're at now
based on your music as the thingI can most observably, uh, take

(56:42):
in and understand.
Um, but also just wanting toknow a about your personal
journey and your, and yourperspectives on the things.
So you.
Is there, is there tours plannedfor the new record, or is there
the typical rollout, or is it,is that different at this stage
for you as well?

Leeroy (56:59):
it's different at this stage.
I don't really have the desireto, to push like I used to.
So I go on tour, I go, uh, I'vebeen on tour for the last year.
just don't tour, uh, long like Iused to anymore.
But I've opened up a bunch ofnew markets that, like the
Maritimes and Ontario and Quebecare finally starting to happen

(57:22):
for me, which is really, reallygreat.

Well, that's cool.

Leeroy (57:26):
so yeah, so, uh, you know, I've toured pretty
extensively.
Last year I toured with SteveEarl.
I toured a bunch on my own,toured with Frazee Ford, a
little bit before that.
So I just toured in Alberta forfive shows.
Um, I go on tour in May, that'sthe next run is May.
So I'm, I'm

Okay.

Leeroy (57:46):
producing, producing records.
I'm starting a, a Leeroy recordnext week with Joel Plaskitt.
we're just putting that,figuring out how the technical
aspects of that,'cause

the opposite ends of the country still.

Leeroy (57:59):
No, Joel's here.
He's,

What?

Leeroy (58:02):
um,

know that.

Leeroy (58:03):
he lives, lives, um, most of the time here.
He still goes back to Halifaxquite a bit, but he's

I,

Leeroy (58:11):
he's got an eight track tape machine here that at my
studio he wants to make thisrecord on.
So we're gonna try that out next

wow.
Wow.

Leeroy (58:20):
seeing how that works.
And it's a completely differentrecord than I've ever made.
so like, and again, you know,like that, that'll be the next
journey to see where that goes.
And, and I, I mean, talk about amentor.
He's just a beautiful mentorand, and brilliant mind

Mm-hmm.

Leeroy (58:39):
one of my f favorite artists who we've just become
great friends through, justthrough life and philosophy and,

Hmm.

Leeroy (58:48):
but, uh, as far as like the old traditional ways, like
I, I have actually very littledesire to.
To do an album cycle thing?

Yeah.

Leeroy (58:58):
I don't know.
I think I don't, I don't know.
Like, I just don't know.
Well, a I don't know that I'llbe going to the United States
at,

Yeah.

Leeroy (59:07):
for the

Yeah.

Leeroy (59:09):
foreseeable future, if ever again.
I don't know.
You know, I don't wanna

Yeah,

Leeroy (59:13):
but that's kind of where things were starting to
take off for me.
But I just, you know, also likephilosophically, like I have to
decide what's best for my spiritand

yeah.

Leeroy (59:27):
there is not what I wanna do.

So you have, you have a record then, I mean, you
have lots of ways to promotethat.
Thankfully, you don't have toget on the road in the streets
the same way as we used to.
But I mean, and you, you're,seems like you always have a, a
record.

Leeroy (59:43):
I don't have any, I don't have any desire to promote
anything other, like peopleshould, you know, I want people
to come to that, to that recordon

Yeah.
I get that.
I get that.

Leeroy (59:55):
I've been,

I,

Leeroy (59:56):
been out for a while and I've toured a fair bid on it
already and

Glen Erickson (01:00:00):
yep.

Leeroy (01:00:01):
you know, sold a bunch of copies that have gotten off
my shelves, which is at thehouse, which is great.
And then I'll go

Yeah.

Leeroy (01:00:07):
in May and I'll probably tour the summer on it,
and then I'll probably put outeither that film in the, in the
fall, um, or I'll put out thisrecord with Joel in the fall and
um, and then I'll see where thatgoes.

And, and a cycle might be, I'm gonna guess a
little, not just harder, butless appealing.
You, you've filled some spacesin your life with like your, it
seems you're producing work forother people at the studio.

Leeroy (01:00:36):
Yeah,

Um, you have the radio show on CKUA still, uh,
dirty Windshields.

Leeroy (01:00:42):
yeah.

which is, is that, that's a once a week
program.

Leeroy (01:00:47):
a week.
Once a week.
I mostly prerecord it.
we'll do it live if I'm forfundraiser or if I'm in Alberta.
the studio, yeah, the, the, the,the producing is, is very, it's
busy.
It's too busy.
And I do, I am craving touring abit more, but it's gotta be

(01:01:08):
quality touring.
I'm very picky with how I tournow, just

Uh, you've, you've earned the right to be
picky.

Leeroy (01:01:15):
No, I have, and it's not like I can go and play big
theaters like some of mycontemporaries, but I could play
small theaters.
I'm selling and I mostly sellout the shows that we play now,
which is, is great, is great.

Yeah.

Leeroy (01:01:30):
so yeah, so I mean, you know, but I do have a desire to,
I think we might go to Australialater in the year for the first
time.

Hmm.

Leeroy (01:01:39):
so anywhere that's like exciting that culturally I wanna
go, I'm interested in.
Um, I don't, we just don't havethe desire to slog out on the

Yeah.

Leeroy (01:01:50):
like I

Yeah.

Leeroy (01:01:52):
and it's great when your support act on a bigger
tour'cause it's,

Takes the pressure off.

Leeroy (01:01:58):
it does take the pressure off.
It's kind of my favorite way todo it.
And it's

Hmm.

Leeroy (01:02:02):
pretty comfy.
As long as the other, the groupthat you're supporting or the
artists that you're supportingare, are kind and not assholes.

Very true general rule, right?
Well, I mean, this is, uh.
This has been a blast, buddy.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to meet with me and
talk a little bit about your,obviously, your journey and your
experiences.
I, I think it's alwaysincredible to talk to anybody
who's been able to stay in itthis long and yet, and maybe

(01:02:30):
it's directly just due tostubbornness.
Um, I'm sure there's a lot ofother great factors in there.
Uh, none the least of which isthat you are an incredible
talent.
you've made some great music,consistently throughout your
career.
Obviously.
Uh, it's music that connectswith people, uh, which is
probably the thing I loved beingable to witness firsthand, being

(01:02:54):
so close to you around that peakperformance time and seeing some
of your performances and justthe way you approached people.
And you were like a soft placeto fall for a lot of, uh,
artists that would be able tocome and talk to you and be
around you.
And, I think that's a.
characteristic that, alwayskinda struck me.
So I just wanna say thanks fortaking the time, talking a

(01:03:17):
little bit about, you know, thethings that you've experienced
and gone through.
yeah.
And it's, you're a superinspiration to me and, uh, I
just wish you best of luck.
I'm really looking forward to,I'm really looking forward to
this documentary film, so I'mgonna super keep my eyes.
I hope that you release that inthe fall and not sit on it too
long.
'cause now I'm reallyinterested, but yeah.

Leeroy (01:03:39):
can, I'll see if I can send you a rough cut.
You can have a look.

Oh, I would love it.

Leeroy (01:03:43):
and

would love it.

Leeroy (01:03:44):
you for the, the kind compliments, and you've always
been one of the, the good ones.
So I, I appreciate you

Oh, that's nice.
Thank you.

Leeroy (01:03:52):
your spirit and I appreciate your, um, taste in
music and I, I don't know, I'm,I'm stoked for you, uh, with
your podcast and

Thanks, man.

Leeroy (01:04:02):
what you got coming up too.

Okay bud.
this is what we're doing.
Anyhow.

alexi (01:04:14):
Yep.

Now people know.
anyhow, how are you doing?

alexi (01:04:18):
Oh, I am good.
How are you?

Okay.
I'm fine.
I just feel like I haven'ttalked to you much today, but

alexi (01:04:23):
we have not been friends,

I don't know that I'd clarifi it that way, but
that's all right.
yeah, we didn't know, we didn'tsee very much of each other.
And then, uh, supper was alittle disappointing.
And then you had to run errandsand now.

alexi (01:04:38):
so you found, you found that too?
'cause I was just complaining tomom about that.

Yeah, no, I think we're absolutely done with
trying those roasts in acrockpot.
I am, you know, the world hasfigured it out.
There's, I've Googled lots ofthings.
I don't know

alexi (01:04:53):
Yeah,

what's going on.
We need some kind of revolution,a crockpot revolution, or it's
completely done in this house.

alexi (01:05:00):
I think we're cursed.
I think that's all.

Maybe like we figured a lot of cool things out
in the last couple years when itcomes to cooking supper and that
that is like, you know, when youthink that someone looks really
good and then they take theirsocks off and then their toes
are disgusting.

alexi (01:05:17):
No.
It's

The crockpot meal is the ugly

alexi (01:05:20):
came off.

during covid.

alexi (01:05:23):
Yeah.

Okay, that's it too.
They have

alexi (01:05:25):
off and it like, it smells so

exactly.

alexi (01:05:28):
excited, the lid comes off and you're like, oh.

That's a little better of analogy.
Okay, so our crockpot roasts arethe bad mask, unveil the bad
mask, reveal of, of the Covidera.
Very good point.
Okay.
Leeroy Stagger a guy that I'vealways had so much respect for.
so I guess right off the bat,like what I didn't go into with
him, quick little story for you.

(01:05:52):
You want to hear my quick littlestory about Leeroy?

alexi (01:05:55):
Always.

Okay, so I was the, so we, we sort of
referenced him winning the peakperformance project the second
year that it was in Alberta, thea hundred thousand dollars
prize, back in, I guess thatwould be maybe 2015.
And, I.
When I first went out to thebootcamp for that, which was
like right at the end of August,the last week of August, I was

(01:06:18):
really looking forward tomeeting him because that would
be the first time him and I hadactually sort of met other than,
uh, passing in hallways or inback stages or things like that.
So.
I really, I had to tell him thatstory of, okay, well I think I
told you this story recently,Lexi, do you remember my friend
Brett gave us tickets to theGrapes of Wrath Little.

(01:06:40):
They had a show that old, likelate eighties, nineties band,
Canadian band that I loved, andso we went out to Sherwood Park
and we saw them play.
That was just like Novembermaybe.
Yeah.
That was very recent.
Okay.
And maybe you overheard metelling this story to Brett and
his wife, about this story,which was that I was a huge

(01:07:02):
grapes WR fan when I was incollege, all that kind of stuff.
and so then when I was in theband, the Wheat Pool, we were
playing a local show.
We got added as an opener.
To Leeroy Stagger, who wastouring and doing pretty well at
the time.
Is it coming back to you rightnow?
Okay.
So the, yeah.
Yeah.
So the, as the story goes, wedid our sound check.

(01:07:23):
But I was just wanting to clearmy stuff off the stage to a
degree and clean it up so itlooked nice and all that kind of
stuff.
'cause I had my stuff all over.
So I'm trying to pack it up andthen I, it's almost like the
old, you know, when you pick upa suitcase and it spills open,
it was kind of that scenario andI had a bunch of my gear go over
and there's like.
Uh, an Ebo hits the stage and mybatteries go all over.

(01:07:46):
And then this guy from the,who's playing with Leeroy kindly
bends down and cleans my crap upwith me and is super nice.
And I'm like, oh, that's areally nice guy.
You know, he doesn't have to dothat.
And there's no, I was, you know,I'm noticing the lack of ego
from a, you know, he plays with.
The main band, all that kind ofstuff, whatever.

alexi (01:08:05):
Yeah.

that kind of registers, I go backstage, I
tell the guys, ah, he's a reallynice dude, blah, blah blah.
That was really sweet.
And then I'm walking aroundgetting ready for the show and I
just see all the road cases forthe band that's there and a
whole bunch of road cases havelike Grapes of Wrath written all
over them and it grapes, a wrathsticker and stuff.
And I go backstage into thelittle green room and I say to

(01:08:28):
the guys in the band, I'm like,man, someone.
Has it really bad for the Grapesof Wrath.
Like they've got this stuff allover their cases and they're
like, dude, are you like stupid?
Like the guitar player forLeeroy is Kevin Kane, one of the
founding members

alexi (01:08:44):
Yeah.

The Grapes of Wrath.
And I was just like, oh, thatwas Kevin Kane who helped me
pick all my stuff up.
But I'm like, that was one ofmy, like Ahm, I'm a total idiot
moments, but I had to tell thatstory to Leeroy.
Years later because I was like,I was kind of fan fanning out
over the whole thing.
I didn't wanna say fangirlingsomehow I feel like that's not

(01:09:04):
appropriate for me to say, but,but that's what I wanted to say.
So anyhow, funny story, but Iwas like, I think I told Leeroy
that.
I don't need to tell him thatagain on the podcast, but that
was kind of a funny moment forme.
And when I think of Leeroy, thatsomehow always ends up at one of
the top of the list things.
'cause I like to make it aboutme.

(01:09:25):
No.
anyhow, so I, it was a quickerconversation.
It was a good conversation.
I really

alexi (01:09:30):
Mm-hmm.

liked his sense of, um, well he's always, I've
known him to have this realpositivity.
Uh, he used this phrase onceabout he just wants to be a
light wherever he goes, stufflike that.
So I'm just curious because Idon't know if you had ever heard
Leeroy before this,

alexi (01:09:49):
but

okay?

alexi (01:09:50):
like that's the extent.

Yeah.
Anything stick out to you aboutthe conversation?

alexi (01:09:56):
I mean in, the least, like.
Negative sounding way, like theconversation like, although
obviously very there was likeless moments of like, I don't
know, like grade school teacherscall, like aha moments where
like, you know, other peoplewith podcasts like say something
or like talk about this likerevelation they had.

(01:10:18):
you're just like, oh, like wow.
Like I've never thought aboutthat.

Yeah.

alexi (01:10:22):
Or, you know, talked about something that's like very
novel to their life and that islike obviously then what sticks
out?
I mean, the conversation I had,like the whole conversation was
interesting.
There wasn't peak moments whereI was like, whoa.
but kind of nearing the end, hestarted kind of like, know,
talking about how like he wasproducing now and you were

(01:10:43):
asking him about like with the.
A new album coming out, like ifhe was gonna tour and, he was
just kind of about contentnesswith like, where he was at as an
artist.
and saying that, you know, I'm,I'm not trying to make like a
hit that's gonna, you know, goviral or beyond played on the
radio and I'm not.
you know, trying to marketmyself so hard.

(01:11:04):
'cause if, if people find mymusic and they come to me like,
and my music, like, then thatwas like what was meant.
And like, just like the way hewas talking, it was just like he
wasn't trying to chase thisartist high of being the most
famous to the point of when hewas talking about like, seeing
other artists and his friendswho are artists who have made it
big.

(01:11:25):
And like not feeling envious ofwhere they were at.
I just thought that feels sounique to hear.
I feel like with so many, if notall artists, you either hear
them say that they're chasingthat high and being that big not
like, you know, that's

Yeah.

alexi (01:11:43):
always a goal or that like.
That was their goal and itdidn't work.
And like what they're doing now,you, you never really hear like,
I'm not trying to get there.
Like, that's not my goal.
yeah.

Yeah.

alexi (01:11:55):
just wondering, like, I mean, and it leading me into
what I was gonna ask you and Iwas gonna ask you I was gonna
save it for the podcast though,which is what I've done.

good for you.

alexi (01:12:04):
but yeah, I was just wondering like how, how you felt
about that and like, if.
That's, I mean, as someone who'sin the music industry and like
who's been in the scene, like,do you find him saying that
unique or is that kind of like alot of people who, trying to
like go for that and

I think that's a really good question actually,
Lexi, like, um.
So just hearing you say thatimmediately made me think to the
way he was saying it.
Not just what he was saying, butthe way he was saying it.
Right.
To which I would have a bullshitmeter on maybe, at this point in
my life and career like, like Ihear that sort of conversation.

(01:12:44):
I'll, I'll just say likebackstage at the Folk Fest when
I talk amongst people who aresort of in the twilight of their
career, let's put it that way.
And, well, I got two littlepieces to say to it, but
specifically to what you ask, Ido think it was unique and the
reason I think it was so uniqueand heartwarming because it was

(01:13:05):
so true.
And the truth is, the thing thatyou wouldn't see, I think, on
the side of the industry, uh,yet, is that usually that gets
delivered by somebody who'sprobably quite jaded, not
content, right?
There would always be sort of anunderlying tone or, or something

(01:13:27):
in the conversation would'vealready set that up in the
context of.
you know, I'm done with it.
So when he, because he named afew things like you just said.
He talked about his friends whoare still doing it and some very
successfully, and he's like, Idon't know how they still do it.
I don't, I don't envy that atall anymore.
In other words, the grind andthe rat race and the cycles that

(01:13:47):
you have to go through.
and he seemed very sincere whenhe said, I don't really envy
that anymore.
And he's just sort of tired ofhaving to do a cycle of albums.
He'd rather just make.
The music that inspires them andput it out and

alexi (01:14:01):
Yeah.

go play shows when the opportunities come out.
And I to him to say, I preferthese opening acts roles where
there's no pressure on me to bethe one to fill the room.
And you know, it's especiallygreat if people are nice.
Like there's just a sincerity toall that of just accepting.
That because for most people'scareer, they don't want to

(01:14:23):
accept being anybody's opener.
Right?
Like there's,

alexi (01:14:27):
Mm-hmm.

and so when you hear people talk about it as far
down the career as he is, ifthere's that kind of a reduction
from the early days of, ofthings, it's usually because
they, there's just a jadednessunderneath it all, and he didn't
have it.

alexi (01:14:43):
gonna say like, I mean, two things is like, I was kind
of comparing it in my mind oflike, um, like athletics, like
you don't have

Yep.

alexi (01:14:52):
wanted to

Yeah.

alexi (01:14:53):
you know, make the NHL.
And then they go and like theyplay all the way up into like,
you know, the league before it.
And then you, like, you neverhear those guys be like, oh,
like, you know, I actuallydidn't wanna play NHL, I'm
really happy with where I got.
You.
Always hear them be like, eitherown it or have that jaded sense
of like, whatever.
Like, I didn't really even wantto, like, that'd be too much

(01:15:14):
work.

Yeah,

alexi (01:15:15):
kind of like

that's a good one.

alexi (01:15:17):
they're just happy with where they made it.

I'd take that even a step further to say, I
feel like where, and I don'tknow if the guys would agree
with me.
I feel like where our band, theWheat Pool got to was like, you
know, junior and not quite tothe show.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, we, it just always feltthat way.
I, I feel like Leeroy's morelike the guy who, you know, had

(01:15:43):
a career.
for quite a while, but you know,if in hockey say the really good
ones play to their mid latethirties and some guys are done
by the time they're 30 years oldor it's starting to wind down or
whatever, whatever.
Not to get into the metaphor toomuch, but yeah, he seemed
content with that version,whatever it was.

alexi (01:16:05):
Yeah.
And also like he even kind oftook it a step further and was
like content with how it's been,but also actively being like,
oh, I'm happy for that fact evenlike now.
And was like, you know, thankfulfor like where he was living and
the studio he has and like thefamily and the

Yeah.

alexi (01:16:23):
his

Yeah.

alexi (01:16:23):
and like.
Uh, yeah, I just, I was like,that's, I think very being so
grounded in like who you havebeen and also who you are, like,
especially in that scene.
I just thought that was, know,kind of special.
I.

Uh, I totally agree, and I think that, I just
love the sincerity of himcommunicating all of that.
And I guess the thing thatstruck me about the conversation
and his arc and his career,which I think fed right into the
part that you just pulled out,which is he, he's seen a lot of
rising and falling or, or noteven, I won't even call it

(01:16:58):
rising and falling.
Let's call it in his pursuit upthe mountain, he kept having his
legs knocked out from underneathhim, like over and over again.
you know, and I think he's kindof got to the point where it's
like, ah, I, I'm just gonnawalk.

alexi (01:17:12):
Yeah.

okay with it just being a stroll wherever I'm
going now instead of this madpursuit up the hill.
So we're just jumping all overmetaphors tonight, but.
That's all right.

alexi (01:17:23):
Apparently,

Anyhow, that was, uh, that was pretty cool.
And I, I agree.
I think that was a really coolmessage to hear.
And I guess from my perspective,since you asked the question, I
don't hear, I don't hear thatsincerity a lot from somebody
who is like, at the place wherehe's at in his career.
You either hear peopledesperately trying to hold on.

(01:17:45):
If that makes sense.
Do you know what I mean?
Uh, you hear them talk aboutthings like how they're just
struggling with redefiningthemselves.
They use that term.
You'll see, or you hear peoplechirping about how they hate
that.
It's all content creation andsocial media and, and they'll
just talk really negativelyabout that.
And, and there's just theseangles that all tell you that

(01:18:08):
they're not a, in a good place.
Because they still want thepicture that they were chasing
when they were young.

alexi (01:18:14):
Yeah.

But, he's not that guy and I think it's pretty
cool.

alexi (01:18:19):
Yeah.

So, that's pretty cool.
Other than, um, ourdisappointing supper.
let's talk about two thingsreally quickly.
one is we're into March now.
And we started going to the gymtogether three days a week,
Monday, Wednesday, Friday, rightfrom the start of January, and

(01:18:40):
we're in March and we're stilldoing it no matter what.
We're getting up and going, how,how are you feeling about it?
Good.

alexi (01:18:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm feeling good.
I love a routine.
I love, yeah, I love, I've beenwanting to, we've both been
wanting to do that since we, wewent together What?
Before Covid?

No, during

alexi (01:19:00):
During

like when they would reopen the rec center and
I had a membership.
Yeah.
And then we would go, rememberwe, I used to have to like go
online and schedule your time.
'cause they would only allow somany people in.

alexi (01:19:13):
Yep.

yeah, that's when you and I would go, but

alexi (01:19:16):
I was gonna say we did that and I was, mean, I was
young like just feels like along time ago.
Five, six years now.
And then as soon as we fell off,

it wasn't five, six years, but you're allowed to
get the math wrong for Covid.
It was probably four years agothat we started doing that.

alexi (01:19:36):
2020.

2020 is when it started, but it wasn't until
2021 that we, that it opened upagain, that we could go back to
the gym like that.

alexi (01:19:45):
Oh, okay.

It's okay.
The, the math, it pandemic Mathis not

alexi (01:19:49):
it

accurate.
It's okay.

alexi (01:19:51):
no, but my point was We, we fell off of it eventually and
then the entire time we were notgoing, we talked about going

Yeah.

alexi (01:20:04):
I'm glad that we found a time and space that works

especially the previous, especially the
previous six months in which wewere lamenting about ourselves
and our inactivity and abilityto do it.
So it's good.
Like you aren't feeling, I guesswhen I say are you, how are you
feeling about it?
I just mean, do you feel likeyou're.
Sometimes when you get back toit and you're trying to do
stuff, it's not a, I don't knowif the plateau is the right

(01:20:29):
word, but sometimes you hit thatfirst plateau of I've been doing
the same thing now for twomonths or more.
And,

alexi (01:20:36):
Yeah.

you know, you get a little bored or you get a
little, you're feeling okaythough, not, not that.

alexi (01:20:43):
There's parts of my, my kin kinesiology brain where I'm
like critiquing myself and then,

Like your form or whether you're choosing the
right exercises, even maybe,

alexi (01:20:55):
just like general routine and exercise at the gym.
And then I'm like able to affirmmyself with like, you know,
other knowledge.
And then I'm like, you knowwhat?
At the end of the day, like I'mgoing to the gym three days a
week.
I'm running once a week nowoutside.
I'm like, I'm moving.
It's

You,

alexi (01:21:14):
Like,

created some self affirmations to get you through.

alexi (01:21:18):
Ugh.

Good.

alexi (01:21:19):
to start.

You need some self affirmations.
Okay, well that's fair.
I feel great.
I've been like, oh yeah.
I mean, I've been, I haven'tgotten bored.
I haven't plateaued.
I've been introducing, I.
A couple of new either machinesor exercises or, I've been
asking your brother cause hejust loves being able to tell
people what he knows about thatstuff.

(01:21:40):
So he's been helping me and I'vebeen pushing the numbers up and
yeah.
So

alexi (01:21:46):
Love it.

I'm really glad that we made that choice
together.

alexi (01:21:48):
Yeah.

yeah.
And then I think the last thingI was gonna tell you, but I
think you already know, is Ithink I'm absolutely obsessed
with that new song, flowers.

alexi (01:21:58):
Oh, you

By Nathaniel Rale Rateliff and Alan Gregory.
Alan Isikoff.
I do that wrong every singletime I go to say it.
Greg Lee Gregory, Alan Isikoff.
Oh my goodness.

alexi (01:22:11):
Yes.

Did you know, did you know that his career went
viral and broke open because ofa song, called Big Black Cars
that was on a McDonald'scommercial.

alexi (01:22:22):
I did actually.

good for you.

alexi (01:22:24):
Your knowledge?
Well, I knew it was because ofthat song for a long time.
Only recently did I learn why itwas that song,

Hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, I don't wanna dwell onthat, but this song Flowers is
so good and any, anybody,anybody who knows me, which is
probably most of the people whoonly listen to the podcast so
far, are still people, P whoknew me, but know that the
guitar tone of like gettingloud.
breaking up almost screamingbecause you're not because of

(01:22:56):
volume, but because of howyou're playing the, the tones
and the frequencies together,and you have it so deeply washed
in reverb and it swells is thething that literally makes my
soul melt.
Right.
And.

alexi (01:23:10):
Yeah.

This song, it comes outta nowhere and does
that despite how incredibletheir voices sound together.
I have a, I'm having right now ahard time believing some other
song is going to replace it asmy favorite in 2025.
And it's only the first week ofMarch or whatever.
So,

alexi (01:23:28):
Yeah, well,

that's how much every time I listen to it, I'm
liking it more, so

alexi (01:23:32):
it's, um,

It is going on the playlist is what I'm saying.

alexi (01:23:35):
Well, obviously it's going on the playlist.
I was gonna say it's your, it'syour, uh, you're pulling a me
you're repeating the same

I am.
It's literally all I've beenlistening to, but yeah.

alexi (01:23:46):
so good.

Yeah.
Okay.
Well, speaking of the gym, youneed to get to bed'cause we're
gonna be up at 5 45 to go to thegym together tomorrow.

alexi (01:23:54):
true.

So it's a tough life for a girl.

alexi (01:23:58):
it is, especially when you're just a

Just a girl.

alexi (01:24:01):
Oh well.

Okay.
Thank you for this.
Appreciate your time.

alexi (01:24:04):
Always.
I'll see you in the

I'll see you in the morning.
Bye-bye.

alexi (01:24:07):
Bye.

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