October 13, 2025 • 57 mins
When Simone stepped back in Tokyo and Naomi walked away from the mic, the world paid attention. Their decisions didn’t show weakness—they redefined strength. This episode explores the rise of mental health awareness in sports, the science of sport psychology, and how athletes are proving that mental resilience is just as critical as physical skill. From sports gambling pressure to the youth sports grind, we break down why mastering the mind might be the most important game of all.
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Chapters
- 0:00 - Sport Psychology Unveiled
- 5:00 - Simone Biles' Olympic Challenge
- 15:00 - Naomi Osaka Sets Boundaries
- 25:00 - Kevin Love's Panic Revelation
- 35:00 - Prop Bets and Mental Strain
- 45:00 - NCAA's New Mental Health Rules
- 55:00 - Mental Health: Your Winning Edge
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
So, what I hope that our listeners hear from Simone's
story is that mental health canoftentimes be an indicator that
a break is what's needed, thatactually taking time off and
stepping back is performancecare.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Have you ever wondered why people get so hyped
about their favorite sportsteams?
Well, it turns out it's not justabout the game, it's about the
community.
My name is Taryn.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
And I'm Amber.
Welcome to Almost Fans, thesports podcast that's fun, a
little bit educational, and willgive you plenty to say when
you're trying to keep up withthose die hard sports fans in
your life.
Welcome back to Almost Fans, thepodcast where we dig into the
stories, the moments, and thepeople that make sports
(00:52):
unforgettable.
But before we dive into that,we've got our hat trick segment.
Taryn and I agreed on the topicahead of time, but we haven't
compared notes until now.
Today's hat trick topic is topthree favorite drinks.
Taryn, will you get us started?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so favorite drinks.
So simple, but not because holycow, there are a lot of great
drinks out there.
My first favorite drink, okay.
Don't call me an alcoholic,okay?
Two out of my three arealcoholic drinks, but lessen up.
They're just they're a treat,okay?
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
And the third one's caffeinated for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Well, you know what the third one is if that's the
other two.
So okay, and then so the firstone is none other than the
brandy sweet old fashioned.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Oh, that a girl.
SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
You probably don't even know what you're missing on
one of these unless you havelived or have been in Wisconsin.
I'm not even a full Wisconsiniteby any means, but this one
thing, the people of this state,we've got it right.
The old fashions should havebrandy in them.
Period.
Not whiskey, not bourbon, andthey should be sweet.
(02:01):
Muddled orange, cherry, sugar,bitters, topped with seven upper
sprite, and another cherry andanother orange.
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
All the soup, all the people, the weird preserved
fruit in the world.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
I mean, yes, there's no other way to have an
old-fashioned.
If you get an old fashioned inany other state, in any other
place, it's wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even if you say a brandy sweetold fashioned and they don't
know sweet and they get thebrandy, they're not gonna get
all the other components.
So don't even try it.
Just come to Wisconsin,basically.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Yeah.
My first one, I don't drink thisoften, but it is so good.
And I meant to buy theingredients for it, and then I
forgot on July 4th weekend.
It's a homemade strawberrymojito, like with all the
crushed strawberries and mint.
Mint.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Oh, mojito was like a close number four on mine.
I love a mojito.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, same.
And I love them in the summer,but I also kind of just like
them all the time.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Strawberry like stuff.
Strawberry mojito.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
What you got next?
Your next cocoa.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Number two.
No, no.
So number two is my caffeinatedbeverage, and it is any flavor
of latte.
So more often than not, it'slike vanilla latte or caramel,
and it's usually hot, but don'ttempt me with a good time.
I'll try a butterscotch, asalted caramel, a maple syrup
situation.
The barista tells me it'sphenomenal.
(03:27):
I can be convinced and I willtry it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
Okay, can we just take a quick pause?
You know, those people out therewho are like, I'm really not
picky.
And then they like totally are,or at least moderately are.
Taryn is not.
Homegirl will eat or drinkanything.
SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
I thought you were gonna say I was that person.
I'm like, really?
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
No, anything.
I've never seen you turn down asingle food or beverage or
nothing.
Nothing else.
I always say I'll try anythingtwice.
I believe that.
I'll get Taren coffees once in awhile, and I'll just walk in and
be like, I don't really know.
Like what looks fancy andseasonal right about now?
And it's usually something like,yeah, caramely or maple-y or
(04:08):
sugary or vanilla.
Yeah.
So it always works.
Um you might not believe this,but my number two is also a
vanilla latte.
But to be, I know I miss it.
I don't drink them anymore, butit's my like, oh, they're so
good.
But specifically, I know it is atreat.
Specifically from that littlecoffee shop right off of the
(04:29):
square around the Capitolbuilding.
Um, and on a morning in Augustwhen we're doing the cross
country picnic, when we're doingan e a picnic event, and it
we've finished all the stuff.
We're just waiting for thepeople to arrive and we're just
chilling in a really prettyplace.
Drink it, but like that one.
Yeah, it's a good vibe drink.
(04:50):
There's that cute little coffeeshop.
I never remember the name of it.
I just know where to walk.
It's like down that it's alwaysright by the same place.
We yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
You know, anyway, that's mynumber one.
SPEAKER_02 (05:01):
Okay.
My number one favorite drink ofall time.
You're not gonna be surprised bythis in any way, shape, or form.
It's a spicy margarita.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
I knew it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
But specifically, I love the spicy margarita from
Full Mile Brewing Company.
It's here in Sun Prairie.
Oh, it's the perfect mix ofspicy, and sometimes it is
really spicy, depending on whatbartender you get that day.
But it just reminds me of likesitting out, they have the like
garage doors, so it's like youcan either sit outside or you
(05:29):
can be like half outside, and itjust reminds me of summertime.
I love, love, love the spicymargarita there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:36):
I love that.
You're not gonna love my finalanswer.
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
It's water, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
It's freak, it's water.
I love water.
I love water.
I love water, I love water, Ilove water.
It makes me a better person.
I promise.
I mean, it makes us all better,honestly.
I mean, I I get at least 80ounces, maybe more like 100
(06:02):
ounces a day.
Insane.
It's my routine.
I pee for like three hours in arow in the morning because I'm
usually drinking the most in themorning, but I just feel like a
better person when I drinkenough water.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
Yeah.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Maybe we all should drink a little bit more water.
I know.
I wrote this down and I waslike, Taryn's gonna be so mad.
She's gonna roll her eyes atthis one.
But I can't.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
I knew you were gonna put water down from the
beginning of this.
I just knew.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
I know.
I'm so vanilla.
I know you too well.
You're the spicy one, I'm thewatery one.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
Yeah, seriously.
The differen You guys, this is athis is a really good example of
the difference between Amber andTaryn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
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All right, so now we're headedin to the main part of today's
(07:26):
episode where we're talkingabout sport psychology.
And Taryn and I just want togive a really quick disclaimer
before we hop into this topic.
It is coming up more and moreoften in conversations around
sports.
Taryn, you and I have had somany guests on in the last this
(07:48):
whole year.
And this topic is coming up in aton of different ways and shapes
and forms.
And I don't think that thisconversation, that this topic is
coming up more often becauseit's happening more often.
I think it's coming up moreoften because more people, more
athletes, especiallypro-athletes with their big
stages and big numbers offollowers are talking about it,
(08:11):
are normalizing it, which isamazing.
And to that, we say to you, welldone and thank you.
But today's conversation, we wejust want to give this
disclaimer.
We are not clinicians.
What we're doing today issharing information, sharing
stories about athletes and evensome of our own personal
(08:35):
experiences.
So, and a message for youlisteners if sport is part of
your life, mental skills andmental health should also be
part of your toolkit as well.
And remember, if you or someoneyou know is struggling, you can
always call or text 988 to getsupport.
(08:56):
So, what actually is sportpsychology?
I'm gonna rattle off some thingshere without sounding like a
textbook, I hope.
But really, it is the science ofmind in sports.
So it studies how a person's andathlete's thoughts, emotions,
behaviors could affect theirathletic performance.
(09:16):
Sport psychology is tools likegoal setting, self-talk.
This made me think of rightaway.
I I thought of playing hockeythis morning and I missed just
the easiest pass.
The easiest pass, Taryn, it wentright by.
And it was at the blue line.
Those of you who know hockeyknow that when the puck goes
over the blue line, your wholeteam has to exit that part of
(09:40):
the ice before you can put itback in play.
So I was like, uh, if I couldhave just gotten my stick in
like a better position, youknow, so like in my head, and
like, why couldn't I just havestopped the puck there?
Um, but I, Taryn, you know Ilove this.
I love the be a goldfish.
And so my self-talk, Iliterally, as I was chasing this
puck down and failing becausethere was somebody way faster
(10:02):
than me who was already on it.
Um, I was saying to myself, be agoldfish, you know, just on to
the next play.
Yeah, let it go on to the nextthing.
So sport psychology includesthese sorts of tools like
self-talk visualization.
I've never used that.
It sounds silly to me, but Iknow that there are a lot of
people who do use this.
(10:22):
Focus control, pre-competitionroutines.
I eat the same cliff barchocolate mint granola bar
before hockey every morning.
It says protein on it.
It's lying.
It has no more protein, sugar,any other sugary, chocolatey,
but it is the thing that I eat.
And I don't, it's just it, it'smy my routine and my tradition.
(10:46):
Yeah.
Sport psychology is also healthand safety connection, um, you
know, recognizing that mentalhealth directly influences
injury risk, directly influencesrecovery, decision making, and
one of those things that we loveto um clap for, which is
longevity in sport.
(11:07):
So sport psychology affects allthose things.
And it is not just for the pros,it is for anyone who is playing
a sport, including me in my be agoldfish self-talk, apparently.
So okay.
I wanted to, you know, reallybring this conversation to a
(11:29):
start by telling some famousstories and talking about some
people who pro athletes who havestruggled with mental health,
who have come back from it, hadsuccess.
Obviously, probably the firstone that comes to mind is Miss
Simone Biles.
So um her and the 2021 Olympicsin Tokyo.
(11:51):
Taryn, what do you rememberabout her and this sort of
situation that happened at theOlympics?
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think I can tell from, I mean, I
obviously know the story nowbecause I've watched her
documentary and all the things,but from the outside looking in,
she was doing her, you know, herroutines, and we're all watching
on TV, and then all of a suddenshe walks out of the gym.
Like it's like it was so itseemed so out of the blue.
(12:21):
I think she was on vault maybeat the time.
Yeah, I can't remember becausethe vault's the one that's the
scary one for her.
She does that double back flipcraziness, yeah, and um, yeah,
and if you get the twisties,which is what they call it in
gymnastics, it's very unsafebecause you just don't know
where your body is when you'rein the air, and that's what
happened to her.
(12:41):
So she it's a it's it is amental thing, but it like throws
your body and your mind off sothat you can't like really feel
where your body is in the air,which is like so essential when
you're flipping a hundred timesin the air.
Um, but yeah, so she just leftand she said that she called her
mom and she said, I can't do it.
(13:02):
I can't, I can't keep going.
And I don't want to like, Idon't wanna make let everyone
down.
I want to let my team down, Idon't want to let you down, I
don't want to let me down, butlike for my safety, I just know
that I can't.
And then she proceeded to staythere in Tokyo, and this was
COVID times, so her parents werenot there.
(13:23):
It was the first time she'd evercompeted without her parents
being in the gym.
And so wow, how hard.
Um, and she stayed and cheeredon the rest of her teammates and
um was a great teammate to allof them, but yeah, she could she
didn't want to compete the restof the time.
She might have competed a littlebit, but just took out some
certain moves.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, she might have done some maybe some like
individual um events.
Yeah, I can you imagine yeahhaving the I don't having the
gumption, I don't even know whatthe word is, but maturity,
honestly.
Maturity, that's the word to beable to come after you walk out
and make that decision.
(14:04):
By the way, and I rememberbecause we had segment or we had
spotlighted Simone for a she'sgot game segment earlier this
year.
But I remember uh when shecalled her mom.
I'm picturing myself in mom'sshoes.
You know, hey mom, I just can'tdo it.
If I were the mom, I would say,Well, what's going on?
Tell me more.
I would try, I would try toconvince my daughter to like,
(14:26):
well, you know, like let me tryto help you now.
No, no, no.
Mrs.
Biles, Simone's mom, who I thinkis her maternal grandmother,
maybe.
Yeah.
But Simone's parent, her mom,said, Okay, honey, then don't.
Then just stop.
I mean, like, what an amazingsupport system.
It is a bummer that she couldn'tbe there in person, you know, to
support Simone that way.
(14:47):
But I mean, exactly what Simoneneeded to hear.
And I think probably this is notthe first time that Simone was
really mature and her mom knewthat Simone had the ability to
make a decision for herself.
But and then to walk back in,knowing every single set of
eyes, every single camera istrained on you, will be trained
on you for the rest of theOlympic Games.
(15:10):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
And to have just I can't even stability not even
imagine.
And she I would be in a cloudhiding.
Blew up.
Like people were talking sobadly about her.
Oh, it just crushes me.
And she knew it.
I mean, people were asking herso many questions, and that's
when you just want to go in ahole and be like, Yeah,
(15:31):
everybody leave me alone.
And and also you want to explainyourself, but like she didn't,
she didn't like go out of herway to be like, everybody
deserves to know every detail.
Like, she's like, they don'tneed to know, which that's the
hardest thing for me.
Like, I I have a really hardtime.
This is just me being reallyhonest.
I have a hard time when I knowthe truth about what I'm
(15:52):
thinking, feeling, doing,whatever, and everybody else
doesn't.
Like, I want to really explainmyself.
So to me, I'm like, oh, good forher, right?
Like that's the goal, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
To not care what other people think or I mean,
defending yourself from just anonslaught of criticism.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, what maturity?
Um, honestly, amazing.
So, uh, a couple of otherdetails about this.
The twisties is technicallyspeaking, you nailed a bunch of
this already, but it's a mentalblock that creates a dangerous
(16:25):
disconnect between mind andbody.
A gymnast can have this, also adiver, martial arts, other
athletes who are doing thingswhere they're jumping in the air
and usually twisting, so need tohave some sort of sense of where
they are in the air.
But basically, it's a disconnectin the feedback loop in the
(16:45):
brain.
Like your brain and body are nolonger talking to one another.
And it, you know, as we saw withSimone, it can be incredibly
dangerous.
By the way, I feel like I kindof live in this state most of
the time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
Like it's just knowing where your body is.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Yeah.
Where's my car keys?
Where's my life?
What's happening?
What's going on?
I think.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
But I just looked into things sometimes, and I'm
like, oh, how did I not knowthat I was there?
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Let's call it mom twisties, maybe.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's mom mental twisties.
I think that there's definitelyan association there.
Yeah, I'll give you that forsure.
But in some interview, Simonegave the explanation about
twisties like this.
And I quote, every day you drivea car, and then one day you wake
up and have no idea how to drivethat car.
(17:37):
Your legs are all over theplace.
You have no control of yourbody, you've been doing
something for so long, but nowyou have no control and it's
terrifying.
So that was how she sort of, youknow, described the twisties.
What causes it?
Everything and anything.
It's literally what I found inthe research.
It could be doubt, it could bestress, a quest for perfection.
(17:59):
I feel like she probablyexperienced all of these.
And just like any other timethat you should be good at
something, you have been good atsomething, and that talent, that
technique, that whateverfalters, it's really easy to get
into your brain and then make itworse.
And it compounds.
Now I can't do it.
(18:19):
Now I'm in my head, now I'mdoubting everything.
Do I actually have talent?
So all of these things weregoing through her brain.
How to fix this?
Take a break.
It's actually really simple andstraightforward and boring, but
take a break.
Simone had to step back.
Taryn, you probably saw this inthe documentary, but she
basically cold turkeyed it.
She just stopped doinggymnastics.
(18:41):
And then after a certain periodof time, came back to the gym
and just had fun.
Flipped around with no purpose,no goal, nothing, just to sort
of keep in shape.
And then very, very slowlystarted relearning some of the
basic skills, started adding on,visiting with coaches and
trainers, talking about maybewhat a return to gymnastics
(19:03):
could look like.
But it was a really long roadand started at exactly square
one.
So what I hope that ourlisteners hear from Simone's
story is that mental health canoftentimes be an indicator that
a break is what's needed, thatactually taking time off and
(19:26):
stepping back is performancecare.
So I think Simone's story isreally amazing.
Obviously, her incrediblesuccess gives her a really big
stage to share it on as well.
And um, I've read, I've seen alot of her stuff.
I think she's done an amazingjob at bringing this topic to
media attention, to ourattention as well.
(19:47):
Okay, next story.
Story number two out of three.
Naomi Osaka.
Do you remember much about hertennis player?
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I mean enough.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Yeah.
So she she was a young phenomtennis player, you know, those
tennis players who, just likeher, in her teens, you know,
turns pro and wins against somereally high profile athletes.
And so everybody starts talkingabout her.
Woo, you know, the newest, thebiggest thing.
And she really was.
Um, she's a multi-grand slamchampion.
(20:19):
And with that, especially whenshe's young and you know,
noteworthy and media worthy,comes a lot of scrutiny and a
lot of speculation, a lot ofpressure, a lot of expectations.
So a few years ago, after atennis match that she lost, I
believe, she opted to notparticipate in a press
(20:41):
conference.
And I did not know thatprofessional tennis players have
a I don't know if obligation orduty, responsibility, or
requirement to participate inpress conferences.
And I looked up okay, I say thiswith some sarcasm.
Um the tennis association, USTennis Association, I don't
(21:02):
know, tennis governing body,gave the response when this came
to light when she did refusethis um media press conference.
The reason why they have proathletes attend these media
press conferences is because ithelps to promote the sport and
share the athlete's perspective.
(21:24):
I hear cha-ching cha-ching,media press conferences are how
they keep tennis in thespotlight, how they get
viewership, TV contracts, money,tickets is my um sort of jam.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
And if it wasn't required, who would do it?
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
And if it wasn't required, everybody'd be like,
no, thank you.
Yeah, then pass.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
Especially after I've just lost.
No thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
Yeah.
When I'm feeling vulnerable, andof course, that's when the
media, let's be real, I alsolove to see like somebody like,
you know, really breaking downsome that's terrible, right?
I don't want to say suffering,but yeah, like to, yeah, a
little bit of drama sometimes isis good for media.
Anyway, so she was penalized,she was charged$15,000 in fines,
(22:10):
yeah, for skipping this pressconference because she set these
boundaries, because she wasreally going through a hard
time, and then this loss is sortof all compounded.
She also made comments about howshe's not a big fan of public
speaking anyway.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:26):
So then to do it.
She's super soft spoken.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Yeah, she really is like super soft spoken and kind.
But to do this public speakingon a world stage after you just
got epically beaten in a match,is you know, sort of like all of
the all of the um things on topof you.
Later on, she pulled out of theFrench Open, one of those Grand
Slam tournaments.
(22:49):
She mentioned she pulled outbecause of mental health
struggles, and she got a hugewave of support from other
athletes, which was really cool.
So this was a number of yearsago.
Since then, she's had a baby.
Not so yeah, yeah, she's had ababy.
Um, she's 27 and she's lived alot more life, and I think maybe
(23:12):
gained a lot of perspective.
And the amount of years betweenher withdrawing from the French
Open and now, she when she didenter into tournaments, she
didn't really do well until thisyear.
At the US Open, she had anamazing showing.
She beat Coco Goff, which I feelmakes emotions about.
(23:35):
I love Coco.
She's a US player.
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
So cute watching them play each other.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
They're both just like the young, cute, like
lovable, so nice and like scaryathletic.
Um, but yeah, so it was a bummerto see Coco lose, but also
really amazing to see Naomisucceed.
So folks are calling this acomeback for Naomi Osaka.
(24:00):
This it's at the US Open, it'sway further than she's gotten in
any recent tennis tournament.
So that's fantastic.
But the moral of the story, whatI hear from her story, is a
setting of boundaries.
Yeah.
So she set this boundary.
I don't feel well enough toattend this press conference.
I don't feel well enough toparticipate in this very
prestigious and important tennistournament.
(24:24):
I mean, I'm sure that wasincredibly hard for her to
withdraw.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
Probably the amount of money she loses.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
And sponsorships and yeah.
So I'm sure that was a reallyhard decision, but lots of
respect for her and the way thatshe set boundaries in order to
protect her mental health.
(24:52):
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Okay, I've got one more story.
(25:34):
Do you know who Kevin Love is?
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
Yeah, sure do.
Uh play for the Heat.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
Yes.
Um, NBA player, obviously, then.
So he's also been reallyoutspoken about mental health.
Here's his story.
He was playing in a game, andduring warm ups, it felt like as
he was running around, his heartrate got really high really
fast, doing things thatshouldn't make him out of
(26:02):
breath.
Tried to write it off, you know,and thought it's just a little,
you know, some nerves or, youknow, whatever.
And then somewhere during thegame, his coach called a
timeout.
He went over into the huddle,and the symptoms got worse as he
was standing there, and healmost couldn't focus.
So his heart rate was racing.
(26:22):
He was even more out of breath,couldn't catch his breath.
He said everything was spinningas though his brain was trying
to climb out of his head.
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Can you pick it up?
I mean again, I can I can kindof like relate to that in some
aspects of parenting.
But yeah, everything wasspinning, like his brain is
trying to climb out of his head.
What a feeling.
So this is a panic attack.
So he goes into the locker roomand he says he ran from room to
room trying to get his heart tostop racing.
(26:54):
And he ended up at the end ofthis episode lying on the floor
in the training room, trying toget enough air to breathe.
So the next day they ran allthese tests.
Of course, they were reallyworried.
Everything came back normal.
And you know what his teammanagers, team personnel said?
They said, Kevin, dude, yougotta see a therapist.
(27:15):
So he says this about the stigmaaround pro-athletes and mental
health.
And I quote, growing up, youfigure out really quickly how a
boy is supposed to act.
You learn what it takes to be aman.
It's like a playbook.
Be strong, don't talk about yourfeelings, get through it on your
own.
So for 29 years of my life, Ifollowed that playbook.
(27:37):
And look, I'm probably nottelling you anything new here.
These values about men andtoughness are so ordinary that
they're everywhere and invisibleat the same time, surrounding us
like air or water.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Like the these, I can't, I mean, I feel so bad for
men and the expectation thatthey have.
Like, yeah, it's not fair thatthey have to be that way.
And it's not fair to women, youknow, like selfishly, like it's
not fair to women that men haveto be that way when you know
(28:12):
that's not what we need, and wedon't expect that from them,
right?
Because we want to talk aboutour feelings, we want to do
these things, and it's just sohard.
I mean, you know, you have twoboys, I have one boy, like
trying to raise boys to like benot that, you know, it's hard,
it's very hard, and it's hardfor me, and I'm aware of it,
right?
(28:32):
Like, yeah, you know, likesetting like stigmas that I
maybe like just come out of mymouth sometimes, and I'm like,
blah blah blah, that's not whatI meant.
I meant yeah, it's okay to cry,you know, but we're not gonna do
this in addition, you know,whatever it is.
But yeah, oh, it's so hard and Ican't imagine.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Like, I so many times one of my kids have eaten
it, fallen on rocks, gravel,roads, grass, whatever.
Yeah, and I'm like, it's allright, bud, just rub it, hop
back up, you can keep playingthis if it's a sport, or like
keep doing, you know, whatever,or come on, you know, get into
your car seat.
The number of times where I'veencouraged them to just sort of
(29:12):
brush it off and keep going.
I can't even count, I can't evencount in the decade that I've
been a parent how many times I'msure I have done that.
And it's so because it'scelebrated, right?
It's celebrated in sport, it'scelebrated in life.
Yes, mostly from the perspectiveof men, but also women in sport.
(29:33):
I was encouraged, like you falldown and you scrape something
and you just like you know, wipeit, wipe the blood off or
whatever, and keep rolling ifyou, you know, as long as
nothing's broken.
So and sometimes even when itis, you know, sometimes even if
it is, yes, very terribly brokenor injured.
Yeah, okay.
So so Kevin Love, he beginsseeing a therapist and says he
(29:56):
was actually surprised that thetherapist did not want.
To talk about basketball at all.
Kevin's like, uh, you know, likewe talked about anything else.
And he said, and I found thistoo with my therapists, that
it's never what you think isbothering you, which is the
beauty I think of therapy or hasbeen for me.
(30:19):
A therapist can ask you enoughquestions so that you walk
yourself around to what isactually going on.
And for Kevin, he learned thatwhat was what was actually going
on was related to the passing ofhis grandma.
Um, the two of them wereincredibly close, incredibly,
incredibly close.
She sounds like a really sweetwoman and her health
(30:41):
deteriorated really quickly.
He never had a chance to say aproper goodbye.
And he learned in a lot of workwith his therapist that that
actually had caused a lot ofanxiety and concerns.
I know you're cutting onionsover there.
Onions over here?
Yeah.
But it has crept into thatanxiety, that sense of loss,
(31:01):
that feeling of incompletenesshas sort of crept into a lot of
different areas of his life inways he didn't expect.
And now he says he sees histherapist a couple of times per
month every time he's, you know,in town and not traveling.
So just a really cool story fromthe perspective of a man, which
I think is incredibly valuableand one that is told less.
(31:23):
More and more, but still lessthan the stories of women who
are struggling with mentalhealth.
So I just want to wrap up thesethree stories with a couple of
takeaways.
First off, I've mentioned acouple times, but let me just
reiterate wow, the power ofsport to bring important topics
to the front of the conversationand how awesome it is when
(31:44):
athletes like these three usetheir platform to tell that
story and normalize mentalhealth struggles in sport, but
just in general.
And also, I love to mention toanyone who will listen that I
see a therapist, that it is goodfor me, that it helps me, that
it is healthy for me.
But I always think of this in mybrain like I see a dentist, I
(32:08):
see a general physician, I see achiropractor, I see other
practitioners, a dermatologiston a regular basis.
And sometimes that's becausesomething hurts or doesn't look
right.
That mole looks a little bitfunky.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Or sometimes it's just I'm concerned that you're
going to your dermatologist thatsomething hurts.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
No, no, no, no, no.
If it hurts, chiropractor.
LSM shout out.
If the mole is a funky color,that's a dermatologist
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
Those two things combined in the same thing.
If something hurts, I'm gonna gosee my dermatologist.
Like, oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
What about a sunburn?
If a sunburn hurts, maybe thatwould call me visit.
It's mallow.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
Amber's got a one appointment today.
I was like, I have a dailydoctor appointment today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I'm not at that level, although, although there,
I mean, I could probably, if Ididn't have a day job, I'm sure
I could find more doctors tovisit.
Like a nutritionist, how greatwould that be?
Like our guest, Grace Payne.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Um no, dermatologist for a funkymole.
And also, but also, okay.
(33:22):
Also, I want to make this point.
Also, we see doctors for justmaintenance and general upkeep,
not only when something iswrong.
And that's how I view mytherapists.
I see her when I'm having atough week, but also I just see
her every other week, even ifI'm not having a tough week.
And at the bottom of all ofthis, Taryn, is that mental
health is health.
Right.
(33:43):
It is not a separate category.
It is in the same, we take careof our bodies.
Why not take care of our brainsas well?
So, Taryn, quick question foryou.
When you were playing sports, oreven now, did you, if you're
open to sharing or anyone youknow ever deal with mental
health connected, mental healthstruggles connected to sport?
SPEAKER_02 (34:04):
Um, I would say, like for my personal experience
with sport, I don't know if it,I mean, I think it's all sort of
rel relative, but for me, a bigpart of it was when I was out of
sport.
I tore my ACL after my freshmanyear, um, in the summer of my
freshman year going into mysophomore year.
And so that was really tough.
(34:25):
Not only did I like have to missmy seasons, but then it was a
lot slower going back to it.
And that, you know, it made mefeel slower physically.
And also, like I think mycoaches were like, oh, she
didn't play last year, so likeshe's not as good.
And that made it really tough tolike, you know, get through
sitting on the bench, right?
Basketball.
(34:46):
I sat on the bench my likejunior year, I think, because
you know, after my sophomoreyear, it was like, oh, I don't
know.
She's in, I don't know if she'sany good at this point.
But um, yeah, so that was reallytough for me.
I I wouldn't say that I likeneeded a like a therapist at the
time, but it was really hard.
Like I remember going intocollege being like, this is
(35:07):
shows my privilege, right?
Hardest thing I've done in mylife is that I tore my ACL and I
had to sit out of sports, andthen I had to like come back and
try and like get back to my oldself.
And that was just like, it wastough.
It was really hard for forsomeone who put a lot of their
identity in sports.
And I think that's a big part ofit right there was that like I
(35:28):
was a sports girl, you know.
My dad was a coach, like mybrother played sports, he my dad
played sports, and I playedthree sports almost all the way
through high school.
So yeah, it was it was myidentity being kind of like
pulled away from me and tryingto figure out like who am I
outside of sports.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Yeah.
Wow.
I can totally relate to that aswell.
And still sort of relate tothat.
Yeah.
I run around and I play allsorts of sports, and it's the
talking point that I use withcoworkers and family and
friends, and you know, they'reasking about hockey or my golf
lessons or whatever, but to nothave the physical ability to do
(36:07):
those things, my conversationtopics would be much less.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
For sure.
And I think this podcast is alsopart of that too, right?
Like, I think you and I have agood dynamic because like you
don't pretend to like knoweverything there is to know
about sports.
But I feel like my sort ofpersona was that like I knew
more about sports than you.
So sometimes when I don't know,it really affects like I'm like,
yeah, why don't I know that?
Or like I'm not sure about that.
(36:32):
And that affects how I viewmyself when I'm when we're
talking on here.
And I think probably a lot ofour listeners feel the same way,
right?
Like they want to join in onconversations, but they're too
scared to because they're like,if I become sports girl and I
don't know the answer, or if Isay something wrong, I'm
constantly like, doesn't thatguy play for so and so?
And like some dude is alwayslike, no, they play for so and
(36:55):
so now.
And I'm like, I can't keep up.
Okay, no, there's so much tokeep up with.
There's so much.
I have a child and a yeah, fourjobs that can't do it all, you
know.
So, but that it is, it doesaffect me.
It does affect me when I likedon't know something or can't
get something right, saysomething wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Um, I hadn't even personallyprepared for this question, but
I'm thinking back to uhobviously identity identity tied
up in sports, but then also somelevel of body image.
So when I was in college andgrad school, I did a lot of long
distance running and I used upmy knees.
(37:35):
I can't do that any longer.
But I had to stay active.
I I loved the adrenaline of it,but also it was a body image
thing.
If I wasn't working out and Iwasn't staying fit, if I didn't
have the physical shape that Iwanted to have, uh it would
really impact me.
And I could, you know, my shapecould change just a little bit
(37:58):
and I would know it, I wouldfeel it, and it would just sort
of sit in the back of my mindand follow me everywhere I went.
So on the mental health side ofthings, I think that's probably
where I, in the span of mycareer in sports, probably have
struggled the most and still doin some respect.
(38:19):
You know, eating a cheeseburgeris gonna say it's gonna it's
gonna do something to my brainfor sure if I haven't, you know,
played a sport or done a workoutthat day.
So and all things my therapistand I are currently unpacking.
All right, natural.
That's good.
Keep at it.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Anyway, but really awesomeconversations.
(38:41):
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, no, super cool.
Thank you.
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
Okay, so I want to transition now.
We've talked a lot about proathletes, at least three of them
in their stories.
I want to segue just sort ofbriefly into some hot topics in
college sports.
And this one particular hottopic is connected to gambling.
I'm so tired of hearing aboutgambling.
(39:37):
I feel like every othercommercial is for some sort of
sports gambling.
Save money and gambling.
It's fine, but I'm just tired ofhearing about gambling.
But here we are talking about itanyway.
Tanner, do you know what a propbet is?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Yeah.
That's like the I mean, I'mprobably not gonna give the
right definition of this, but mymy perception of it is it's
basically the the atypical kindof bet.
So kind of more like the notlike moneyline or not like
win-loss or spread.
It's the color of Gatoradethat's gonna be dumped on the
coach.
Or like, is the national anthemgonna go X amount of time?
(40:16):
Like the kind of weird one-offones.
SPEAKER_00 (40:18):
Yep, exactly.
Basically, what I found anythingthat is other than win loss or
point spread, like those veryhigh-level um sorts of bets.
So, where this leaks into mentalhealth is that a lot of prop
bets now are based on anindividual player's performance.
(40:40):
So I bet that Taryn will score Xnumber of three pointers in the
following game, basketball game,college basketball game, right?
Or I bet this baseball player isgonna hit a home run in this
game.
So why this matters is becauseit turns the view and the focus
(41:01):
from the team as a whole, theArkansas Razorbacks, the Florida
Gators, to that one specificperson.
And then, you know, when itcomes to gambling, I am tying my
money to this team to win or tothat person to hit a home run.
So all of a sudden it becomes alittle bit higher stakes.
I got money on this.
(41:21):
And now when my money is tied toone individual person, it is a
lot easier for that to lead tosocial media harassment, to even
something as simple as someoneposting on social media, tagging
a college athlete.
I'm betting the under on you inyou know tonight's game.
Something as simple as that, allthe way up to you're worthless,
(41:45):
you're useless.
Like, how could you not havescored at least this many
points?
Threats, harassment, yeah.
And it uh for these collegeathletes, y'all, they're
students, they're like 20 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
20 years old.
SPEAKER_00 (42:01):
Some like give them some space.
I mean, but but prop bets, Imean, you know, like we as fans
have always discussed games anddiscussed players' performance,
but prop bets assigns money, soit elevates the emotions, and
then prop bets helps us narrowin on one player, so all of a
(42:23):
sudden, all of these emotionsare connected to this one player
in this one time frame, so itcan really quickly spiral into
something that's reallynegative.
So the NCAA, there are somestates, by the way, who have
legislation in place to protectathletes, and it's all over the
place.
Some states say no prop bets atall, some states say no prop
(42:47):
bets on in-state teams, youknow, it's sort of all over the
place, but not all states haveprotections in place.
So the NCAA is lobbying, um,encouraging states to put some
sort of protections in place forthese poor, poor college
athletes, these 20-year-olds whoare just trying to play a game
(43:10):
and take some classes and do abunch of stuff that is already
really, really hard.
So now that was really aninteresting tie-in between
sports and mental health.
And the NCAA is doing some otherstuff as well.
Policies, absolutely, matter.
So the NCAA now expects allschools to have clear mental
(43:32):
health plans, not just posters.
I'm picturing like in PE class,you know, you had like the
pyramid of whatever and how muchphysical activity.
Okay, not just posters, butactual plans.
And maybe coming from a reconsport management background, I
will call this with a grain ofsalt because I have a lot of
questions on, you know, how isthis going to be enforced?
(43:54):
It's uh, you know, there's somany schools, so many programs.
But some of the some of thethings NCAA has put into place,
and this is in 2024, so it'spretty recent.
Schools are now expected to haveclear referral pathways when you
are concerned about when youpersonally are struggling, if
you see someone else who youfeel like is at risk, is
(44:16):
struggling with mental health umconcerns.
Is there an easy and very clearway for you to refer that person
or yourself?
Emergency action plans.
So after that referral happens,or if there's, you know, other
um higher level concerns, whatexactly is the way that
athletes, coaches, teampersonnel can get help for that
(44:38):
person?
And also education for coachesand athletes on all of these
things, but just in general, howto identify somebody who's
struggling, what's the rightthing to say in that moment, you
know, how to help, sort ofthing.
So the NCAA with these mentalhealth policies, there were
other things wrapped in as well,which makes me more impressed
because what I've just said isgreat.
But also listen to this.
(44:58):
They've also passed legislationum along with information about
the following topics theintersection of mental health
and sports betting.
Great, just talked about that.
Social media, corruption insports, suicide contagion, which
sounds terrifying, but is anofficial term.
I know deep breath.
NIL.
(45:19):
Yep.
And then also includes somespecific considerations for
student athletes of color,LGBTQ, student athletes,
international student athletes,and student athletes with
disabilities.
So um, I think I need to digfurther here, maybe in a
separate episode.
This all sounds really, reallyamazing.
(45:39):
I think it's gonna beinteresting to watch how it's
executed.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Especially in today's time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
Especially in today's time.
How is it executed and how isNCAA enforcing and making sure
that these policies actuallybring value to the athletes?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:57):
I have my doubts on how well they can.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
I have some skepticism as well, which is so
unfortunate.
And I hope that we are umbrutally incorrect.
Yeah, but we'll have to see sortof how it plays out, and
hopefully, you know, the nextcrap of student athletes can
get, you know, more support fromtheir schools.
All right, now it is time forour final segment of the day,
(46:23):
which is She's Got Game, wherewe highlight a woman doing
something awesome in gymnasticstoday.
So, Taryn, I want you to picturethis.
It's the day of a gymnasticsmeet at UCLA.
What is a brewing, by the way?
Do you know what a brewin is?
Is it a bear?
Yes.
(46:43):
I think so.
I meant to look this up ahead oftime.
All right.
Anyway, it's the day.
We're gonna get a lot of umwe're gonna get roasted if it's
not.
SPEAKER_02 (46:52):
It's the I'm gonna Google it before we do this
because then I'll just cut thisout.
SPEAKER_00 (46:57):
Fair enough.
It's the day of a gymnasticsmeet at UCLA, a super successful
and prominent gymnasticsprogram.
Not as prominent as Oklahoma, aswe know from Kaylee, but still
has won some championshipsrecently.
But like you're picturing this10 years ago.
Okay, so the UCLA Bruins have agymnastics meet today, and the
(47:19):
pride of their team is JordanWeber, Olympic gold medalist,
world champion.
She's won six major all-aroundtitles and captured three
American Cups.
At this point, again, the storyis back a few years.
At that point, she's only 19.
She's healthy, she's strong, shecan even do push-ups on parallel
(47:39):
bars.
And during UCLA gymnasticsmeets, she displays her talents
in all the ways that she can,including moving mats, refilling
water bottles, firing t-shirtguns, selecting matching
leontards for the athletes, butshe doesn't get to wear one.
Whispers ripple through thecrowd.
(48:01):
Is that Jordan Weber, theOlympic medalist?
Yes, she is an Olympic medalist,but she can't compete because 10
years ago, when she was apro-gymnist, she accepted a
sponsorship deal, which made herineligible to compete in
college.
This was 2015.
(48:21):
We know now 10 years later,after the NIL court ruling has
come down, NCAA eligibility is alot different.
But back then for Miss Weber, itwas a super challenging decision
whether to make some money inher gymnastics career or to be
eligible to go do gymnastics andcompete at the collegiate level.
(48:46):
So let's back up a little bit toget the whole story here.
Jordan started gymnastics at theage of four and really started
getting into competitions by age11.
At just the age 17, she helpedlead Team USA to Olympic gold in
London.
This is 2012.
(49:06):
She was part of the legendaryFierce Five.
Um, Allie Raceman was there, andGabby Douglas, and I didn't
recognize the other girls.
Um, she wasn't just a member ofthe team, she was totally an
anchor and had some had somepain as she was competing at
those Olympics.
Speaking of, you know, womengymnasts who were competing
through the pain, later foundout she had a stress fracture in
(49:27):
her shin, regardless, stillcrushed it.
So an amazing, amazing gymnast.
But at 17, before, you know, asshe was getting ready for the
Olympics, she did turn pro andshe signed with a media group,
did commercials, gave speeches,and basically became financially
(49:48):
secure, but it came at the costof being able to compete at the
collegiate level.
So again, this is very differentnow.
But back then, gymnasts had thisreally difficult decision to
face.
A gymnast's career is reallyshort.
So Taryn, gym little gymnast,talented Taryn, could either
decide to compete in theOlympics or, you know, go the
(50:11):
pro route.
Maybe she's 16 years old, getsome sponsorship dollars, make
some money, or she could not doany of that, play in college,
and then maybe have a role atthe Cirque de Soleil.
I don't know, like aftercollege, you know, 22, like your
career as a gymnast is probablyover for, you know, most
(50:33):
gymnasts.
So it was a really toughdecision, and she went the route
of being financially secure.
However, she still decided thatshe wanted to be in that
culture.
She wanted to be in the gym incollege, right?
Like she was pursuing apsychology degree.
Even if she couldn't be in thatleotard, she still wanted to be
(50:54):
supporting all the other girlswho were in those leotards.
So she would go in when shefirst started college at UCLA.
She'd go into the gym.
She was a volunteer sort ofstudent manager.
She'd go in and she'd train inthe morning because she hadn't
totally decided if she wanted toretire yet or not.
So 2012 Olympics had wrapped upgold medal for the team.
(51:15):
She was sort of waffling on, youknow, do I want to go for 2016
gymnastics?
So that would be in Rio.
You know, do I wanna, do I wantto aim for those games or not?
She hadn't decided.
So when she was first incollege, she was a student
manager of the college team, butshe was also doing her own
workouts and her own training.
Um, she did, however, in 2015decide that she, it was her
(51:38):
time.
It was time for her to be done.
I don't really know what was thehard stop, you know, like was it
an injury that wouldn't go away?
Was it, you know, somethingelse?
I'm not really sure.
But in 2015, just one year shyof Rio Olympics, she decided
that she was hanging up theleotard and the scrunchie and
the bun and whatnot.
However, her career ingymnastics was not complete, as
(52:03):
we know, because she took a jobas a head coach with the
Arkansas Razorbacks, WhoopigSuey.
That's where I went to gradschool.
So I was so excited to read thisabout her.
Um, and she took this head coachjob when she was just 23 years
old.
Taryn, basically one year olderthan maybe the oldest gymnast on
(52:26):
this team.
Crazy.
I mean, you know, so but she hadthis great experience.
The coach at UCLA is fantastic.
Field condos, I can't rememberher first name.
So Jordan got to really learnfrom her, mentor with her,
shadow her.
When Jordan was hired to be thecoach with the Razorbacks, she
was, yes, very young, 23 yearsold, but also at that point, she
(52:48):
was the first ever Olympicchampion to become a head coach
in NCAA women's gymnasticshistory, which is both exciting
and also very sad that it tookthat long.
She's done a fantastic job withthe Razorbacks.
They've had several top 10national rankings record
attendance at their meets.
I went to a couple of meets whenI was in grad school, amazing
(53:12):
postseason finishes.
They don't have any number one,you know, championship titles to
their name yet, but it's yet.
And I say yet because hercontract takes her all the way
to 2028.
So she's got lots of runway.
I do want to talk, though, abouthow she coaches.
We've talked about some of theolder mentality of gymnastics.
(53:36):
Push yourself, push throughinjury, push through, work as
hard as you possibly can,burnout, what's that?
Just keep going.
But Jordan does not subscribe tothat philosophy.
She got a degree in psychologyfrom UCLA, for goodness sake.
So she knows a little bit abouthow to motivate people.
She knows a little bit about theinner workings of the human
(53:58):
brain and emotions, etc.
So she draws on some of thatexperience when she's coaching
her team.
She actually, instead ofencouraging these girls to push
through pain or push throughstruggle, burnout, whatever, she
encourages emotional openness,communication.
She empowers her athletes totake care of their bodies.
(54:19):
She says that she's not justcoaching gymnastics routines,
she's rebuilding a culture.
And her athletes don't justcompete well.
They feel heard, they feelvalued, they feel safe.
So I just want to go back tothat moment that I started the
segment with when she's, youknow, refilling water bottles
(54:40):
and firing the t-shirt gun andhelping everybody else, even
though she's so qualified toactually be competing.
You know, you might think ofthat moment like, oh, she really
missed out, or oh, you know,like that's so unfortunate for
her.
But I think it's impressive thatshe turned that.
And she's known for her mentalfortitude.
(55:01):
You know, her coaches and herteammates say that too.
But I think that's just onemoment where she was faced with
something really hard, reallytough decision, you know, and
sort of stood tall and said, youknow what, maybe I can't
contribute in that way, but Iknow that I can contribute in
this way.
And her ability to make thatdecision is, I'm guessing, you
know, part of why she was hiredat Arkansas and now is making an
(55:25):
impact in even more awesomeways.
So we talk about how hard it isto leave your sport, how hard it
is to make those transitions,but um, you know, Jordan really
did it with a lot of grace andnow is taking on all those
things that she learned in hercareer and helping other people
learn them.
So she's fantastic.
But anyway, so for all thesereasons and so many more, is why
(55:48):
we have chosen to spotlight MissJordan Weaver, Olympic gold
medalist and head coach of theArkansas Razorbacks gymnastics
team, as our she's got game ladytoday.
That is a wrap on today'sepisode.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this really important
(56:08):
conversation on sportpsychology.
From youth sports to the biggeststages in the world, we've seen
how mental health isn't separatefrom performance.
It's actually part of it, areally integral part of it.
So if sport is part of yourlife, we want to reiterate
mental skills and mental healthshould be part of your toolkit
(56:32):
too.
And remember, if you or someoneyou know is struggling, you can
call or text 988 to get support.
And our hope is that today'sstories, information,
conversation gave you newperspective on what it means to
support athletes, teammates,kids, and even ourselves.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please share it on Instagram and
(56:54):
tag us at AlmostFans Podcast.
We love seeing your tags, and itreally helps us reach more
people like you.
So thanks again for listening,and we will see you next week.
So, what I hope that our listeners hear from Simone's
story is that mental health canoftentimes be an indicator that
a break is what's needed, thatactually taking time off and
stepping back is performancecare.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Have you ever wondered why people get so hyped
about their favorite sportsteams?
Well, it turns out it's not justabout the game, it's about the
community.
My name is Taryn.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
And I'm Amber.
Welcome to Almost Fans, thesports podcast that's fun, a
little bit educational, and willgive you plenty to say when
you're trying to keep up withthose die hard sports fans in
your life.
Welcome back to Almost Fans, thepodcast where we dig into the
stories, the moments, and thepeople that make sports
(00:52):
unforgettable.
But before we dive into that,we've got our hat trick segment.
Taryn and I agreed on the topicahead of time, but we haven't
compared notes until now.
Today's hat trick topic is topthree favorite drinks.
Taryn, will you get us started?
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so favorite drinks.
So simple, but not because holycow, there are a lot of great
drinks out there.
My first favorite drink, okay.
Don't call me an alcoholic,okay?
Two out of my three arealcoholic drinks, but lessen up.
They're just they're a treat,okay?
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
And the third one's caffeinated for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Well, you know what the third one is if that's the
other two.
So okay, and then so the firstone is none other than the
brandy sweet old fashioned.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Oh, that a girl.
SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
You probably don't even know what you're missing on
one of these unless you havelived or have been in Wisconsin.
I'm not even a full Wisconsiniteby any means, but this one
thing, the people of this state,we've got it right.
The old fashions should havebrandy in them.
Period.
Not whiskey, not bourbon, andthey should be sweet.
(02:01):
Muddled orange, cherry, sugar,bitters, topped with seven upper
sprite, and another cherry andanother orange.
SPEAKER_00 (02:10):
All the soup, all the people, the weird preserved
fruit in the world.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
I mean, yes, there's no other way to have an
old-fashioned.
If you get an old fashioned inany other state, in any other
place, it's wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even if you say a brandy sweetold fashioned and they don't
know sweet and they get thebrandy, they're not gonna get
all the other components.
So don't even try it.
Just come to Wisconsin,basically.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Yeah.
My first one, I don't drink thisoften, but it is so good.
And I meant to buy theingredients for it, and then I
forgot on July 4th weekend.
It's a homemade strawberrymojito, like with all the
crushed strawberries and mint.
Mint.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Oh, mojito was like a close number four on mine.
I love a mojito.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, same.
And I love them in the summer,but I also kind of just like
them all the time.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Strawberry like stuff.
Strawberry mojito.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
What you got next?
Your next cocoa.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Number two.
No, no.
So number two is my caffeinatedbeverage, and it is any flavor
of latte.
So more often than not, it'slike vanilla latte or caramel,
and it's usually hot, but don'ttempt me with a good time.
I'll try a butterscotch, asalted caramel, a maple syrup
situation.
The barista tells me it'sphenomenal.
(03:27):
I can be convinced and I willtry it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
Okay, can we just take a quick pause?
You know, those people out therewho are like, I'm really not
picky.
And then they like totally are,or at least moderately are.
Taryn is not.
Homegirl will eat or drinkanything.
SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
I thought you were gonna say I was that person.
I'm like, really?
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
No, anything.
I've never seen you turn down asingle food or beverage or
nothing.
Nothing else.
I always say I'll try anythingtwice.
I believe that.
I'll get Taren coffees once in awhile, and I'll just walk in and
be like, I don't really know.
Like what looks fancy andseasonal right about now?
And it's usually something like,yeah, caramely or maple-y or
(04:08):
sugary or vanilla.
Yeah.
So it always works.
Um you might not believe this,but my number two is also a
vanilla latte.
But to be, I know I miss it.
I don't drink them anymore, butit's my like, oh, they're so
good.
But specifically, I know it is atreat.
Specifically from that littlecoffee shop right off of the
(04:29):
square around the Capitolbuilding.
Um, and on a morning in Augustwhen we're doing the cross
country picnic, when we're doingan e a picnic event, and it
we've finished all the stuff.
We're just waiting for thepeople to arrive and we're just
chilling in a really prettyplace.
Drink it, but like that one.
Yeah, it's a good vibe drink.
(04:50):
There's that cute little coffeeshop.
I never remember the name of it.
I just know where to walk.
It's like down that it's alwaysright by the same place.
We yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
You know, anyway, that's mynumber one.
SPEAKER_02 (05:01):
Okay.
My number one favorite drink ofall time.
You're not gonna be surprised bythis in any way, shape, or form.
It's a spicy margarita.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
I knew it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
But specifically, I love the spicy margarita from
Full Mile Brewing Company.
It's here in Sun Prairie.
Oh, it's the perfect mix ofspicy, and sometimes it is
really spicy, depending on whatbartender you get that day.
But it just reminds me of likesitting out, they have the like
garage doors, so it's like youcan either sit outside or you
(05:29):
can be like half outside, and itjust reminds me of summertime.
I love, love, love the spicymargarita there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:36):
I love that.
You're not gonna love my finalanswer.
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
It's water, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
It's freak, it's water.
I love water.
I love water.
I love water, I love water, Ilove water.
It makes me a better person.
I promise.
I mean, it makes us all better,honestly.
I mean, I I get at least 80ounces, maybe more like 100
(06:02):
ounces a day.
Insane.
It's my routine.
I pee for like three hours in arow in the morning because I'm
usually drinking the most in themorning, but I just feel like a
better person when I drinkenough water.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
Yeah.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Maybe we all should drink a little bit more water.
I know.
I wrote this down and I waslike, Taryn's gonna be so mad.
She's gonna roll her eyes atthis one.
But I can't.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
I knew you were gonna put water down from the
beginning of this.
I just knew.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
I know.
I'm so vanilla.
I know you too well.
You're the spicy one, I'm thewatery one.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
Yeah, seriously.
The differen You guys, this is athis is a really good example of
the difference between Amber andTaryn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
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(07:03):
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So thanks for supporting theshow.
All right, so now we're headedin to the main part of today's
(07:26):
episode where we're talkingabout sport psychology.
And Taryn and I just want togive a really quick disclaimer
before we hop into this topic.
It is coming up more and moreoften in conversations around
sports.
Taryn, you and I have had somany guests on in the last this
(07:48):
whole year.
And this topic is coming up in aton of different ways and shapes
and forms.
And I don't think that thisconversation, that this topic is
coming up more often becauseit's happening more often.
I think it's coming up moreoften because more people, more
athletes, especiallypro-athletes with their big
stages and big numbers offollowers are talking about it,
(08:11):
are normalizing it, which isamazing.
And to that, we say to you, welldone and thank you.
But today's conversation, we wejust want to give this
disclaimer.
We are not clinicians.
What we're doing today issharing information, sharing
stories about athletes and evensome of our own personal
(08:35):
experiences.
So, and a message for youlisteners if sport is part of
your life, mental skills andmental health should also be
part of your toolkit as well.
And remember, if you or someoneyou know is struggling, you can
always call or text 988 to getsupport.
(08:56):
So, what actually is sportpsychology?
I'm gonna rattle off some thingshere without sounding like a
textbook, I hope.
But really, it is the science ofmind in sports.
So it studies how a person's andathlete's thoughts, emotions,
behaviors could affect theirathletic performance.
(09:16):
Sport psychology is tools likegoal setting, self-talk.
This made me think of rightaway.
I I thought of playing hockeythis morning and I missed just
the easiest pass.
The easiest pass, Taryn, it wentright by.
And it was at the blue line.
Those of you who know hockeyknow that when the puck goes
over the blue line, your wholeteam has to exit that part of
(09:40):
the ice before you can put itback in play.
So I was like, uh, if I couldhave just gotten my stick in
like a better position, youknow, so like in my head, and
like, why couldn't I just havestopped the puck there?
Um, but I, Taryn, you know Ilove this.
I love the be a goldfish.
And so my self-talk, Iliterally, as I was chasing this
puck down and failing becausethere was somebody way faster
(10:02):
than me who was already on it.
Um, I was saying to myself, be agoldfish, you know, just on to
the next play.
Yeah, let it go on to the nextthing.
So sport psychology includesthese sorts of tools like
self-talk visualization.
I've never used that.
It sounds silly to me, but Iknow that there are a lot of
people who do use this.
(10:22):
Focus control, pre-competitionroutines.
I eat the same cliff barchocolate mint granola bar
before hockey every morning.
It says protein on it.
It's lying.
It has no more protein, sugar,any other sugary, chocolatey,
but it is the thing that I eat.
And I don't, it's just it, it'smy my routine and my tradition.
(10:46):
Yeah.
Sport psychology is also healthand safety connection, um, you
know, recognizing that mentalhealth directly influences
injury risk, directly influencesrecovery, decision making, and
one of those things that we loveto um clap for, which is
longevity in sport.
(11:07):
So sport psychology affects allthose things.
And it is not just for the pros,it is for anyone who is playing
a sport, including me in my be agoldfish self-talk, apparently.
So okay.
I wanted to, you know, reallybring this conversation to a
(11:29):
start by telling some famousstories and talking about some
people who pro athletes who havestruggled with mental health,
who have come back from it, hadsuccess.
Obviously, probably the firstone that comes to mind is Miss
Simone Biles.
So um her and the 2021 Olympicsin Tokyo.
(11:51):
Taryn, what do you rememberabout her and this sort of
situation that happened at theOlympics?
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think I can tell from, I mean, I
obviously know the story nowbecause I've watched her
documentary and all the things,but from the outside looking in,
she was doing her, you know, herroutines, and we're all watching
on TV, and then all of a suddenshe walks out of the gym.
Like it's like it was so itseemed so out of the blue.
(12:21):
I think she was on vault maybeat the time.
Yeah, I can't remember becausethe vault's the one that's the
scary one for her.
She does that double back flipcraziness, yeah, and um, yeah,
and if you get the twisties,which is what they call it in
gymnastics, it's very unsafebecause you just don't know
where your body is when you'rein the air, and that's what
happened to her.
(12:41):
So she it's a it's it is amental thing, but it like throws
your body and your mind off sothat you can't like really feel
where your body is in the air,which is like so essential when
you're flipping a hundred timesin the air.
Um, but yeah, so she just leftand she said that she called her
mom and she said, I can't do it.
(13:02):
I can't, I can't keep going.
And I don't want to like, Idon't wanna make let everyone
down.
I want to let my team down, Idon't want to let you down, I
don't want to let me down, butlike for my safety, I just know
that I can't.
And then she proceeded to staythere in Tokyo, and this was
COVID times, so her parents werenot there.
(13:23):
It was the first time she'd evercompeted without her parents
being in the gym.
And so wow, how hard.
Um, and she stayed and cheeredon the rest of her teammates and
um was a great teammate to allof them, but yeah, she could she
didn't want to compete the restof the time.
She might have competed a littlebit, but just took out some
certain moves.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah, she might have done some maybe some like
individual um events.
Yeah, I can you imagine yeahhaving the I don't having the
gumption, I don't even know whatthe word is, but maturity,
honestly.
Maturity, that's the word to beable to come after you walk out
and make that decision.
(14:04):
By the way, and I rememberbecause we had segment or we had
spotlighted Simone for a she'sgot game segment earlier this
year.
But I remember uh when shecalled her mom.
I'm picturing myself in mom'sshoes.
You know, hey mom, I just can'tdo it.
If I were the mom, I would say,Well, what's going on?
Tell me more.
I would try, I would try toconvince my daughter to like,
(14:26):
well, you know, like let me tryto help you now.
No, no, no.
Mrs.
Biles, Simone's mom, who I thinkis her maternal grandmother,
maybe.
Yeah.
But Simone's parent, her mom,said, Okay, honey, then don't.
Then just stop.
I mean, like, what an amazingsupport system.
It is a bummer that she couldn'tbe there in person, you know, to
support Simone that way.
(14:47):
But I mean, exactly what Simoneneeded to hear.
And I think probably this is notthe first time that Simone was
really mature and her mom knewthat Simone had the ability to
make a decision for herself.
But and then to walk back in,knowing every single set of
eyes, every single camera istrained on you, will be trained
on you for the rest of theOlympic Games.
(15:10):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
And to have just I can't even stability not even
imagine.
And she I would be in a cloudhiding.
Blew up.
Like people were talking sobadly about her.
Oh, it just crushes me.
And she knew it.
I mean, people were asking herso many questions, and that's
when you just want to go in ahole and be like, Yeah,
(15:31):
everybody leave me alone.
And and also you want to explainyourself, but like she didn't,
she didn't like go out of herway to be like, everybody
deserves to know every detail.
Like, she's like, they don'tneed to know, which that's the
hardest thing for me.
Like, I I have a really hardtime.
This is just me being reallyhonest.
I have a hard time when I knowthe truth about what I'm
(15:52):
thinking, feeling, doing,whatever, and everybody else
doesn't.
Like, I want to really explainmyself.
So to me, I'm like, oh, good forher, right?
Like that's the goal, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
To not care what other people think or I mean,
defending yourself from just anonslaught of criticism.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, what maturity?
Um, honestly, amazing.
So, uh, a couple of otherdetails about this.
The twisties is technicallyspeaking, you nailed a bunch of
this already, but it's a mentalblock that creates a dangerous
(16:25):
disconnect between mind andbody.
A gymnast can have this, also adiver, martial arts, other
athletes who are doing thingswhere they're jumping in the air
and usually twisting, so need tohave some sort of sense of where
they are in the air.
But basically, it's a disconnectin the feedback loop in the
(16:45):
brain.
Like your brain and body are nolonger talking to one another.
And it, you know, as we saw withSimone, it can be incredibly
dangerous.
By the way, I feel like I kindof live in this state most of
the time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
Like it's just knowing where your body is.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Yeah.
Where's my car keys?
Where's my life?
What's happening?
What's going on?
I think.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
But I just looked into things sometimes, and I'm
like, oh, how did I not knowthat I was there?
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Let's call it mom twisties, maybe.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's mom mental twisties.
I think that there's definitelyan association there.
Yeah, I'll give you that forsure.
But in some interview, Simonegave the explanation about
twisties like this.
And I quote, every day you drivea car, and then one day you wake
up and have no idea how to drivethat car.
(17:37):
Your legs are all over theplace.
You have no control of yourbody, you've been doing
something for so long, but nowyou have no control and it's
terrifying.
So that was how she sort of, youknow, described the twisties.
What causes it?
Everything and anything.
It's literally what I found inthe research.
It could be doubt, it could bestress, a quest for perfection.
(17:59):
I feel like she probablyexperienced all of these.
And just like any other timethat you should be good at
something, you have been good atsomething, and that talent, that
technique, that whateverfalters, it's really easy to get
into your brain and then make itworse.
And it compounds.
Now I can't do it.
(18:19):
Now I'm in my head, now I'mdoubting everything.
Do I actually have talent?
So all of these things weregoing through her brain.
How to fix this?
Take a break.
It's actually really simple andstraightforward and boring, but
take a break.
Simone had to step back.
Taryn, you probably saw this inthe documentary, but she
basically cold turkeyed it.
She just stopped doinggymnastics.
(18:41):
And then after a certain periodof time, came back to the gym
and just had fun.
Flipped around with no purpose,no goal, nothing, just to sort
of keep in shape.
And then very, very slowlystarted relearning some of the
basic skills, started adding on,visiting with coaches and
trainers, talking about maybewhat a return to gymnastics
(19:03):
could look like.
But it was a really long roadand started at exactly square
one.
So what I hope that ourlisteners hear from Simone's
story is that mental health canoftentimes be an indicator that
a break is what's needed, thatactually taking time off and
(19:26):
stepping back is performancecare.
So I think Simone's story isreally amazing.
Obviously, her incrediblesuccess gives her a really big
stage to share it on as well.
And um, I've read, I've seen alot of her stuff.
I think she's done an amazingjob at bringing this topic to
media attention, to ourattention as well.
(19:47):
Okay, next story.
Story number two out of three.
Naomi Osaka.
Do you remember much about hertennis player?
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I mean enough.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Yeah.
So she she was a young phenomtennis player, you know, those
tennis players who, just likeher, in her teens, you know,
turns pro and wins against somereally high profile athletes.
And so everybody starts talkingabout her.
Woo, you know, the newest, thebiggest thing.
And she really was.
Um, she's a multi-grand slamchampion.
(20:19):
And with that, especially whenshe's young and you know,
noteworthy and media worthy,comes a lot of scrutiny and a
lot of speculation, a lot ofpressure, a lot of expectations.
So a few years ago, after atennis match that she lost, I
believe, she opted to notparticipate in a press
(20:41):
conference.
And I did not know thatprofessional tennis players have
a I don't know if obligation orduty, responsibility, or
requirement to participate inpress conferences.
And I looked up okay, I say thiswith some sarcasm.
Um the tennis association, USTennis Association, I don't
(21:02):
know, tennis governing body,gave the response when this came
to light when she did refusethis um media press conference.
The reason why they have proathletes attend these media
press conferences is because ithelps to promote the sport and
share the athlete's perspective.
(21:24):
I hear cha-ching cha-ching,media press conferences are how
they keep tennis in thespotlight, how they get
viewership, TV contracts, money,tickets is my um sort of jam.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
And if it wasn't required, who would do it?
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
And if it wasn't required, everybody'd be like,
no, thank you.
Yeah, then pass.
SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
Especially after I've just lost.
No thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
Yeah.
When I'm feeling vulnerable, andof course, that's when the
media, let's be real, I alsolove to see like somebody like,
you know, really breaking downsome that's terrible, right?
I don't want to say suffering,but yeah, like to, yeah, a
little bit of drama sometimes isis good for media.
Anyway, so she was penalized,she was charged$15,000 in fines,
(22:10):
yeah, for skipping this pressconference because she set these
boundaries, because she wasreally going through a hard
time, and then this loss is sortof all compounded.
She also made comments about howshe's not a big fan of public
speaking anyway.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:26):
So then to do it.
She's super soft spoken.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
Yeah, she really is like super soft spoken and kind.
But to do this public speakingon a world stage after you just
got epically beaten in a match,is you know, sort of like all of
the all of the um things on topof you.
Later on, she pulled out of theFrench Open, one of those Grand
Slam tournaments.
(22:49):
She mentioned she pulled outbecause of mental health
struggles, and she got a hugewave of support from other
athletes, which was really cool.
So this was a number of yearsago.
Since then, she's had a baby.
Not so yeah, yeah, she's had ababy.
Um, she's 27 and she's lived alot more life, and I think maybe
(23:12):
gained a lot of perspective.
And the amount of years betweenher withdrawing from the French
Open and now, she when she didenter into tournaments, she
didn't really do well until thisyear.
At the US Open, she had anamazing showing.
She beat Coco Goff, which I feelmakes emotions about.
(23:35):
I love Coco.
She's a US player.
SPEAKER_02 (23:37):
So cute watching them play each other.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
They're both just like the young, cute, like
lovable, so nice and like scaryathletic.
Um, but yeah, so it was a bummerto see Coco lose, but also
really amazing to see Naomisucceed.
So folks are calling this acomeback for Naomi Osaka.
(24:00):
This it's at the US Open, it'sway further than she's gotten in
any recent tennis tournament.
So that's fantastic.
But the moral of the story, whatI hear from her story, is a
setting of boundaries.
Yeah.
So she set this boundary.
I don't feel well enough toattend this press conference.
I don't feel well enough toparticipate in this very
prestigious and important tennistournament.
(24:24):
I mean, I'm sure that wasincredibly hard for her to
withdraw.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
Probably the amount of money she loses.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
And sponsorships and yeah.
So I'm sure that was a reallyhard decision, but lots of
respect for her and the way thatshe set boundaries in order to
protect her mental health.
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Okay, I've got one more story.
(25:34):
Do you know who Kevin Love is?
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
Yeah, sure do.
Uh play for the Heat.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
Yes.
Um, NBA player, obviously, then.
So he's also been reallyoutspoken about mental health.
Here's his story.
He was playing in a game, andduring warm ups, it felt like as
he was running around, his heartrate got really high really
fast, doing things thatshouldn't make him out of
(26:02):
breath.
Tried to write it off, you know,and thought it's just a little,
you know, some nerves or, youknow, whatever.
And then somewhere during thegame, his coach called a
timeout.
He went over into the huddle,and the symptoms got worse as he
was standing there, and healmost couldn't focus.
So his heart rate was racing.
(26:22):
He was even more out of breath,couldn't catch his breath.
He said everything was spinningas though his brain was trying
to climb out of his head.
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Can you pick it up?
I mean again, I can I can kindof like relate to that in some
aspects of parenting.
But yeah, everything wasspinning, like his brain is
trying to climb out of his head.
What a feeling.
So this is a panic attack.
So he goes into the locker roomand he says he ran from room to
room trying to get his heart tostop racing.
(26:54):
And he ended up at the end ofthis episode lying on the floor
in the training room, trying toget enough air to breathe.
So the next day they ran allthese tests.
Of course, they were reallyworried.
Everything came back normal.
And you know what his teammanagers, team personnel said?
They said, Kevin, dude, yougotta see a therapist.
(27:15):
So he says this about the stigmaaround pro-athletes and mental
health.
And I quote, growing up, youfigure out really quickly how a
boy is supposed to act.
You learn what it takes to be aman.
It's like a playbook.
Be strong, don't talk about yourfeelings, get through it on your
own.
So for 29 years of my life, Ifollowed that playbook.
(27:37):
And look, I'm probably nottelling you anything new here.
These values about men andtoughness are so ordinary that
they're everywhere and invisibleat the same time, surrounding us
like air or water.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Like the these, I can't, I mean, I feel so bad for
men and the expectation thatthey have.
Like, yeah, it's not fair thatthey have to be that way.
And it's not fair to women, youknow, like selfishly, like it's
not fair to women that men haveto be that way when you know
(28:12):
that's not what we need, and wedon't expect that from them,
right?
Because we want to talk aboutour feelings, we want to do
these things, and it's just sohard.
I mean, you know, you have twoboys, I have one boy, like
trying to raise boys to like benot that, you know, it's hard,
it's very hard, and it's hardfor me, and I'm aware of it,
right?
(28:32):
Like, yeah, you know, likesetting like stigmas that I
maybe like just come out of mymouth sometimes, and I'm like,
blah blah blah, that's not whatI meant.
I meant yeah, it's okay to cry,you know, but we're not gonna do
this in addition, you know,whatever it is.
But yeah, oh, it's so hard and Ican't imagine.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
Like, I so many times one of my kids have eaten
it, fallen on rocks, gravel,roads, grass, whatever.
Yeah, and I'm like, it's allright, bud, just rub it, hop
back up, you can keep playingthis if it's a sport, or like
keep doing, you know, whatever,or come on, you know, get into
your car seat.
The number of times where I'veencouraged them to just sort of
(29:12):
brush it off and keep going.
I can't even count, I can't evencount in the decade that I've
been a parent how many times I'msure I have done that.
And it's so because it'scelebrated, right?
It's celebrated in sport, it'scelebrated in life.
Yes, mostly from the perspectiveof men, but also women in sport.
(29:33):
I was encouraged, like you falldown and you scrape something
and you just like you know, wipeit, wipe the blood off or
whatever, and keep rolling ifyou, you know, as long as
nothing's broken.
So and sometimes even when itis, you know, sometimes even if
it is, yes, very terribly brokenor injured.
Yeah, okay.
So so Kevin Love, he beginsseeing a therapist and says he
(29:56):
was actually surprised that thetherapist did not want.
To talk about basketball at all.
Kevin's like, uh, you know, likewe talked about anything else.
And he said, and I found thistoo with my therapists, that
it's never what you think isbothering you, which is the
beauty I think of therapy or hasbeen for me.
(30:19):
A therapist can ask you enoughquestions so that you walk
yourself around to what isactually going on.
And for Kevin, he learned thatwhat was what was actually going
on was related to the passing ofhis grandma.
Um, the two of them wereincredibly close, incredibly,
incredibly close.
She sounds like a really sweetwoman and her health
(30:41):
deteriorated really quickly.
He never had a chance to say aproper goodbye.
And he learned in a lot of workwith his therapist that that
actually had caused a lot ofanxiety and concerns.
I know you're cutting onionsover there.
Onions over here?
Yeah.
But it has crept into thatanxiety, that sense of loss,
(31:01):
that feeling of incompletenesshas sort of crept into a lot of
different areas of his life inways he didn't expect.
And now he says he sees histherapist a couple of times per
month every time he's, you know,in town and not traveling.
So just a really cool story fromthe perspective of a man, which
I think is incredibly valuableand one that is told less.
(31:23):
More and more, but still lessthan the stories of women who
are struggling with mentalhealth.
So I just want to wrap up thesethree stories with a couple of
takeaways.
First off, I've mentioned acouple times, but let me just
reiterate wow, the power ofsport to bring important topics
to the front of the conversationand how awesome it is when
(31:44):
athletes like these three usetheir platform to tell that
story and normalize mentalhealth struggles in sport, but
just in general.
And also, I love to mention toanyone who will listen that I
see a therapist, that it is goodfor me, that it helps me, that
it is healthy for me.
But I always think of this in mybrain like I see a dentist, I
(32:08):
see a general physician, I see achiropractor, I see other
practitioners, a dermatologiston a regular basis.
And sometimes that's becausesomething hurts or doesn't look
right.
That mole looks a little bitfunky.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Or sometimes it's just I'm concerned that you're
going to your dermatologist thatsomething hurts.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
No, no, no, no, no.
If it hurts, chiropractor.
LSM shout out.
If the mole is a funky color,that's a dermatologist
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
Those two things combined in the same thing.
If something hurts, I'm gonna gosee my dermatologist.
Like, oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
What about a sunburn?
If a sunburn hurts, maybe thatwould call me visit.
It's mallow.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
Amber's got a one appointment today.
I was like, I have a dailydoctor appointment today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I'm not at that level, although, although there,
I mean, I could probably, if Ididn't have a day job, I'm sure
I could find more doctors tovisit.
Like a nutritionist, how greatwould that be?
Like our guest, Grace Payne.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Um no, dermatologist for a funkymole.
And also, but also, okay.
(33:22):
Also, I want to make this point.
Also, we see doctors for justmaintenance and general upkeep,
not only when something iswrong.
And that's how I view mytherapists.
I see her when I'm having atough week, but also I just see
her every other week, even ifI'm not having a tough week.
And at the bottom of all ofthis, Taryn, is that mental
health is health.
Right.
(33:43):
It is not a separate category.
It is in the same, we take careof our bodies.
Why not take care of our brainsas well?
So, Taryn, quick question foryou.
When you were playing sports, oreven now, did you, if you're
open to sharing or anyone youknow ever deal with mental
health connected, mental healthstruggles connected to sport?
SPEAKER_02 (34:04):
Um, I would say, like for my personal experience
with sport, I don't know if it,I mean, I think it's all sort of
rel relative, but for me, a bigpart of it was when I was out of
sport.
I tore my ACL after my freshmanyear, um, in the summer of my
freshman year going into mysophomore year.
And so that was really tough.
(34:25):
Not only did I like have to missmy seasons, but then it was a
lot slower going back to it.
And that, you know, it made mefeel slower physically.
And also, like I think mycoaches were like, oh, she
didn't play last year, so likeshe's not as good.
And that made it really tough tolike, you know, get through
sitting on the bench, right?
Basketball.
(34:46):
I sat on the bench my likejunior year, I think, because
you know, after my sophomoreyear, it was like, oh, I don't
know.
She's in, I don't know if she'sany good at this point.
But um, yeah, so that was reallytough for me.
I I wouldn't say that I likeneeded a like a therapist at the
time, but it was really hard.
Like I remember going intocollege being like, this is
(35:07):
shows my privilege, right?
Hardest thing I've done in mylife is that I tore my ACL and I
had to sit out of sports, andthen I had to like come back and
try and like get back to my oldself.
And that was just like, it wastough.
It was really hard for forsomeone who put a lot of their
identity in sports.
And I think that's a big part ofit right there was that like I
(35:28):
was a sports girl, you know.
My dad was a coach, like mybrother played sports, he my dad
played sports, and I playedthree sports almost all the way
through high school.
So yeah, it was it was myidentity being kind of like
pulled away from me and tryingto figure out like who am I
outside of sports.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Yeah.
Wow.
I can totally relate to that aswell.
And still sort of relate tothat.
Yeah.
I run around and I play allsorts of sports, and it's the
talking point that I use withcoworkers and family and
friends, and you know, they'reasking about hockey or my golf
lessons or whatever, but to nothave the physical ability to do
(36:07):
those things, my conversationtopics would be much less.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
For sure.
And I think this podcast is alsopart of that too, right?
Like, I think you and I have agood dynamic because like you
don't pretend to like knoweverything there is to know
about sports.
But I feel like my sort ofpersona was that like I knew
more about sports than you.
So sometimes when I don't know,it really affects like I'm like,
yeah, why don't I know that?
Or like I'm not sure about that.
(36:32):
And that affects how I viewmyself when I'm when we're
talking on here.
And I think probably a lot ofour listeners feel the same way,
right?
Like they want to join in onconversations, but they're too
scared to because they're like,if I become sports girl and I
don't know the answer, or if Isay something wrong, I'm
constantly like, doesn't thatguy play for so and so?
And like some dude is alwayslike, no, they play for so and
(36:55):
so now.
And I'm like, I can't keep up.
Okay, no, there's so much tokeep up with.
There's so much.
I have a child and a yeah, fourjobs that can't do it all, you
know.
So, but that it is, it doesaffect me.
It does affect me when I likedon't know something or can't
get something right, saysomething wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
Um, I hadn't even personallyprepared for this question, but
I'm thinking back to uhobviously identity identity tied
up in sports, but then also somelevel of body image.
So when I was in college andgrad school, I did a lot of long
distance running and I used upmy knees.
(37:35):
I can't do that any longer.
But I had to stay active.
I I loved the adrenaline of it,but also it was a body image
thing.
If I wasn't working out and Iwasn't staying fit, if I didn't
have the physical shape that Iwanted to have, uh it would
really impact me.
And I could, you know, my shapecould change just a little bit
(37:58):
and I would know it, I wouldfeel it, and it would just sort
of sit in the back of my mindand follow me everywhere I went.
So on the mental health side ofthings, I think that's probably
where I, in the span of mycareer in sports, probably have
struggled the most and still doin some respect.
(38:19):
You know, eating a cheeseburgeris gonna say it's gonna it's
gonna do something to my brainfor sure if I haven't, you know,
played a sport or done a workoutthat day.
So and all things my therapistand I are currently unpacking.
All right, natural.
That's good.
Keep at it.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Anyway, but really awesomeconversations.
(38:41):
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, no, super cool.
Thank you.
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
Okay, so I want to transition now.
We've talked a lot about proathletes, at least three of them
in their stories.
I want to segue just sort ofbriefly into some hot topics in
college sports.
And this one particular hottopic is connected to gambling.
I'm so tired of hearing aboutgambling.
(39:37):
I feel like every othercommercial is for some sort of
sports gambling.
Save money and gambling.
It's fine, but I'm just tired ofhearing about gambling.
But here we are talking about itanyway.
Tanner, do you know what a propbet is?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Yeah.
That's like the I mean, I'mprobably not gonna give the
right definition of this, but mymy perception of it is it's
basically the the atypical kindof bet.
So kind of more like the notlike moneyline or not like
win-loss or spread.
It's the color of Gatoradethat's gonna be dumped on the
coach.
Or like, is the national anthemgonna go X amount of time?
(40:16):
Like the kind of weird one-offones.
SPEAKER_00 (40:18):
Yep, exactly.
Basically, what I found anythingthat is other than win loss or
point spread, like those veryhigh-level um sorts of bets.
So, where this leaks into mentalhealth is that a lot of prop
bets now are based on anindividual player's performance.
(40:40):
So I bet that Taryn will score Xnumber of three pointers in the
following game, basketball game,college basketball game, right?
Or I bet this baseball player isgonna hit a home run in this
game.
So why this matters is becauseit turns the view and the focus
(41:01):
from the team as a whole, theArkansas Razorbacks, the Florida
Gators, to that one specificperson.
And then, you know, when itcomes to gambling, I am tying my
money to this team to win or tothat person to hit a home run.
So all of a sudden it becomes alittle bit higher stakes.
I got money on this.
(41:21):
And now when my money is tied toone individual person, it is a
lot easier for that to lead tosocial media harassment, to even
something as simple as someoneposting on social media, tagging
a college athlete.
I'm betting the under on you inyou know tonight's game.
Something as simple as that, allthe way up to you're worthless,
(41:45):
you're useless.
Like, how could you not havescored at least this many
points?
Threats, harassment, yeah.
And it uh for these collegeathletes, y'all, they're
students, they're like 20 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
20 years old.
SPEAKER_00 (42:01):
Some like give them some space.
I mean, but but prop bets, Imean, you know, like we as fans
have always discussed games anddiscussed players' performance,
but prop bets assigns money, soit elevates the emotions, and
then prop bets helps us narrowin on one player, so all of a
(42:23):
sudden, all of these emotionsare connected to this one player
in this one time frame, so itcan really quickly spiral into
something that's reallynegative.
So the NCAA, there are somestates, by the way, who have
legislation in place to protectathletes, and it's all over the
place.
Some states say no prop bets atall, some states say no prop
(42:47):
bets on in-state teams, youknow, it's sort of all over the
place, but not all states haveprotections in place.
So the NCAA is lobbying, um,encouraging states to put some
sort of protections in place forthese poor, poor college
athletes, these 20-year-olds whoare just trying to play a game
(43:10):
and take some classes and do abunch of stuff that is already
really, really hard.
So now that was really aninteresting tie-in between
sports and mental health.
And the NCAA is doing some otherstuff as well.
Policies, absolutely, matter.
So the NCAA now expects allschools to have clear mental
(43:32):
health plans, not just posters.
I'm picturing like in PE class,you know, you had like the
pyramid of whatever and how muchphysical activity.
Okay, not just posters, butactual plans.
And maybe coming from a reconsport management background, I
will call this with a grain ofsalt because I have a lot of
questions on, you know, how isthis going to be enforced?
(43:54):
It's uh, you know, there's somany schools, so many programs.
But some of the some of thethings NCAA has put into place,
and this is in 2024, so it'spretty recent.
Schools are now expected to haveclear referral pathways when you
are concerned about when youpersonally are struggling, if
you see someone else who youfeel like is at risk, is
(44:16):
struggling with mental health umconcerns.
Is there an easy and very clearway for you to refer that person
or yourself?
Emergency action plans.
So after that referral happens,or if there's, you know, other
um higher level concerns, whatexactly is the way that
athletes, coaches, teampersonnel can get help for that
(44:38):
person?
And also education for coachesand athletes on all of these
things, but just in general, howto identify somebody who's
struggling, what's the rightthing to say in that moment, you
know, how to help, sort ofthing.
So the NCAA with these mentalhealth policies, there were
other things wrapped in as well,which makes me more impressed
because what I've just said isgreat.
But also listen to this.
(44:58):
They've also passed legislationum along with information about
the following topics theintersection of mental health
and sports betting.
Great, just talked about that.
Social media, corruption insports, suicide contagion, which
sounds terrifying, but is anofficial term.
I know deep breath.
NIL.
(45:19):
Yep.
And then also includes somespecific considerations for
student athletes of color,LGBTQ, student athletes,
international student athletes,and student athletes with
disabilities.
So um, I think I need to digfurther here, maybe in a
separate episode.
This all sounds really, reallyamazing.
(45:39):
I think it's gonna beinteresting to watch how it's
executed.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Especially in today's time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:46):
Especially in today's time.
How is it executed and how isNCAA enforcing and making sure
that these policies actuallybring value to the athletes?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:57):
I have my doubts on how well they can.
SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
I have some skepticism as well, which is so
unfortunate.
And I hope that we are umbrutally incorrect.
Yeah, but we'll have to see sortof how it plays out, and
hopefully, you know, the nextcrap of student athletes can
get, you know, more support fromtheir schools.
All right, now it is time forour final segment of the day,
(46:23):
which is She's Got Game, wherewe highlight a woman doing
something awesome in gymnasticstoday.
So, Taryn, I want you to picturethis.
It's the day of a gymnasticsmeet at UCLA.
What is a brewing, by the way?
Do you know what a brewin is?
Is it a bear?
Yes.
(46:43):
I think so.
I meant to look this up ahead oftime.
All right.
Anyway, it's the day.
We're gonna get a lot of umwe're gonna get roasted if it's
not.
SPEAKER_02 (46:52):
It's the I'm gonna Google it before we do this
because then I'll just cut thisout.
SPEAKER_00 (46:57):
Fair enough.
It's the day of a gymnasticsmeet at UCLA, a super successful
and prominent gymnasticsprogram.
Not as prominent as Oklahoma, aswe know from Kaylee, but still
has won some championshipsrecently.
But like you're picturing this10 years ago.
Okay, so the UCLA Bruins have agymnastics meet today, and the
(47:19):
pride of their team is JordanWeber, Olympic gold medalist,
world champion.
She's won six major all-aroundtitles and captured three
American Cups.
At this point, again, the storyis back a few years.
At that point, she's only 19.
She's healthy, she's strong, shecan even do push-ups on parallel
(47:39):
bars.
And during UCLA gymnasticsmeets, she displays her talents
in all the ways that she can,including moving mats, refilling
water bottles, firing t-shirtguns, selecting matching
leontards for the athletes, butshe doesn't get to wear one.
Whispers ripple through thecrowd.
(48:01):
Is that Jordan Weber, theOlympic medalist?
Yes, she is an Olympic medalist,but she can't compete because 10
years ago, when she was apro-gymnist, she accepted a
sponsorship deal, which made herineligible to compete in
college.
This was 2015.
(48:21):
We know now 10 years later,after the NIL court ruling has
come down, NCAA eligibility is alot different.
But back then for Miss Weber, itwas a super challenging decision
whether to make some money inher gymnastics career or to be
eligible to go do gymnastics andcompete at the collegiate level.
(48:46):
So let's back up a little bit toget the whole story here.
Jordan started gymnastics at theage of four and really started
getting into competitions by age11.
At just the age 17, she helpedlead Team USA to Olympic gold in
London.
This is 2012.
(49:06):
She was part of the legendaryFierce Five.
Um, Allie Raceman was there, andGabby Douglas, and I didn't
recognize the other girls.
Um, she wasn't just a member ofthe team, she was totally an
anchor and had some had somepain as she was competing at
those Olympics.
Speaking of, you know, womengymnasts who were competing
through the pain, later foundout she had a stress fracture in
(49:27):
her shin, regardless, stillcrushed it.
So an amazing, amazing gymnast.
But at 17, before, you know, asshe was getting ready for the
Olympics, she did turn pro andshe signed with a media group,
did commercials, gave speeches,and basically became financially
(49:48):
secure, but it came at the costof being able to compete at the
collegiate level.
So again, this is very differentnow.
But back then, gymnasts had thisreally difficult decision to
face.
A gymnast's career is reallyshort.
So Taryn, gym little gymnast,talented Taryn, could either
decide to compete in theOlympics or, you know, go the
(50:11):
pro route.
Maybe she's 16 years old, getsome sponsorship dollars, make
some money, or she could not doany of that, play in college,
and then maybe have a role atthe Cirque de Soleil.
I don't know, like aftercollege, you know, 22, like your
career as a gymnast is probablyover for, you know, most
(50:33):
gymnasts.
So it was a really toughdecision, and she went the route
of being financially secure.
However, she still decided thatshe wanted to be in that
culture.
She wanted to be in the gym incollege, right?
Like she was pursuing apsychology degree.
Even if she couldn't be in thatleotard, she still wanted to be
(50:54):
supporting all the other girlswho were in those leotards.
So she would go in when shefirst started college at UCLA.
She'd go into the gym.
She was a volunteer sort ofstudent manager.
She'd go in and she'd train inthe morning because she hadn't
totally decided if she wanted toretire yet or not.
So 2012 Olympics had wrapped upgold medal for the team.
(51:15):
She was sort of waffling on, youknow, do I want to go for 2016
gymnastics?
So that would be in Rio.
You know, do I wanna, do I wantto aim for those games or not?
She hadn't decided.
So when she was first incollege, she was a student
manager of the college team, butshe was also doing her own
workouts and her own training.
Um, she did, however, in 2015decide that she, it was her
(51:38):
time.
It was time for her to be done.
I don't really know what was thehard stop, you know, like was it
an injury that wouldn't go away?
Was it, you know, somethingelse?
I'm not really sure.
But in 2015, just one year shyof Rio Olympics, she decided
that she was hanging up theleotard and the scrunchie and
the bun and whatnot.
However, her career ingymnastics was not complete, as
(52:03):
we know, because she took a jobas a head coach with the
Arkansas Razorbacks, WhoopigSuey.
That's where I went to gradschool.
So I was so excited to read thisabout her.
Um, and she took this head coachjob when she was just 23 years
old.
Taryn, basically one year olderthan maybe the oldest gymnast on
(52:26):
this team.
Crazy.
I mean, you know, so but she hadthis great experience.
The coach at UCLA is fantastic.
Field condos, I can't rememberher first name.
So Jordan got to really learnfrom her, mentor with her,
shadow her.
When Jordan was hired to be thecoach with the Razorbacks, she
was, yes, very young, 23 yearsold, but also at that point, she
(52:48):
was the first ever Olympicchampion to become a head coach
in NCAA women's gymnasticshistory, which is both exciting
and also very sad that it tookthat long.
She's done a fantastic job withthe Razorbacks.
They've had several top 10national rankings record
attendance at their meets.
I went to a couple of meets whenI was in grad school, amazing
(53:12):
postseason finishes.
They don't have any number one,you know, championship titles to
their name yet, but it's yet.
And I say yet because hercontract takes her all the way
to 2028.
So she's got lots of runway.
I do want to talk, though, abouthow she coaches.
We've talked about some of theolder mentality of gymnastics.
(53:36):
Push yourself, push throughinjury, push through, work as
hard as you possibly can,burnout, what's that?
Just keep going.
But Jordan does not subscribe tothat philosophy.
She got a degree in psychologyfrom UCLA, for goodness sake.
So she knows a little bit abouthow to motivate people.
She knows a little bit about theinner workings of the human
(53:58):
brain and emotions, etc.
So she draws on some of thatexperience when she's coaching
her team.
She actually, instead ofencouraging these girls to push
through pain or push throughstruggle, burnout, whatever, she
encourages emotional openness,communication.
She empowers her athletes totake care of their bodies.
(54:19):
She says that she's not justcoaching gymnastics routines,
she's rebuilding a culture.
And her athletes don't justcompete well.
They feel heard, they feelvalued, they feel safe.
So I just want to go back tothat moment that I started the
segment with when she's, youknow, refilling water bottles
(54:40):
and firing the t-shirt gun andhelping everybody else, even
though she's so qualified toactually be competing.
You know, you might think ofthat moment like, oh, she really
missed out, or oh, you know,like that's so unfortunate for
her.
But I think it's impressive thatshe turned that.
And she's known for her mentalfortitude.
(55:01):
You know, her coaches and herteammates say that too.
But I think that's just onemoment where she was faced with
something really hard, reallytough decision, you know, and
sort of stood tall and said, youknow what, maybe I can't
contribute in that way, but Iknow that I can contribute in
this way.
And her ability to make thatdecision is, I'm guessing, you
know, part of why she was hiredat Arkansas and now is making an
(55:25):
impact in even more awesomeways.
So we talk about how hard it isto leave your sport, how hard it
is to make those transitions,but um, you know, Jordan really
did it with a lot of grace andnow is taking on all those
things that she learned in hercareer and helping other people
learn them.
So she's fantastic.
But anyway, so for all thesereasons and so many more, is why
(55:48):
we have chosen to spotlight MissJordan Weaver, Olympic gold
medalist and head coach of theArkansas Razorbacks gymnastics
team, as our she's got game ladytoday.
That is a wrap on today'sepisode.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this really important
(56:08):
conversation on sportpsychology.
From youth sports to the biggeststages in the world, we've seen
how mental health isn't separatefrom performance.
It's actually part of it, areally integral part of it.
So if sport is part of yourlife, we want to reiterate
mental skills and mental healthshould be part of your toolkit
(56:32):
too.
And remember, if you or someoneyou know is struggling, you can
call or text 988 to get support.
And our hope is that today'sstories, information,
conversation gave you newperspective on what it means to
support athletes, teammates,kids, and even ourselves.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please share it on Instagram and
(56:54):
tag us at AlmostFans Podcast.
We love seeing your tags, and itreally helps us reach more
people like you.
So thanks again for listening,and we will see you next week.
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