Leviticus and Hebrews: Part Two

In tonight’s Bible Study we read and discuss Hebrews chapter 2 and Leviticus chapters 6-7. Our conversation took a rabbit trail into a discussion of homosexuality. We hope you enjoy reading the word and thinking through difficult things with us!
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Follow our new Bible Study Channel - No Wrong Questions on YouTube!
https://www.youtube.com/@NoWrongQuestions

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https://ratethispodcast.com/conspiracypilled 

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Because swords are awesome!

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Use code CONSPIRACY10 to get 10% off your order! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hello, and welcome to No Wrong Questions Bible Study the
Bible Study of Alternatively show. We just recorded the AI
Relationship Boyfriend episode for Wednesday, so you're seeing the Bible
Study on Monday and what we already record, and my
brain feels really dirty.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
So I'm really pleased.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
If we're turning around and doing the Bible Study on
the heels of that quick. Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
I had told people in my last show that I
hosted that I would be doing like the Freemason Read
Gnosticism episode next. I had that written that's gonna be
my next episode. We put the A one in because
we needed to have a show that would record a
little bit more quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Just do it.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Time constraints. Yes, but it's still coming. Sorry continue Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, so would you would you pray? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Oh Jesus, thank you so much for your goodness and
your provision to us at least help us to discern
your meaning in the text and to not read our
own thoughts into it, but to see what you have
to say. I asked that you help watch out for
all of our listeners and their mental health and their
spiritual walk. And I asked just that you help us
to edify and just name him.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
In Amen caveat that.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
We always say up front we are not pastors, we're
not preachers, We're not trying to be teachers. We're just
trying to be here with you as a community, reading
the Bible together and discussing. We will read every verse.
Every verse is true. The things that we say about
the verses may or may not be true. That is
for you to discern, and you to go to the

(02:24):
scriptures and check and verify. Be like the Bahreans, Yes,
who checked and verified Paul. And if we think we
got something wrong, please let us know. We hold things loosely.
I think that as Protestants that's kind of what you
have to do, that that you don't get to rely
on that like we believe we're one hundred percent right

(02:45):
because the Church said these things. I think that there's
a comfort in that, and we don't believe that it's
valid as Protestants, but I fully understand the comfort of it,
And so there's there's as a Protestant.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I know that I.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Struggle through the discomfort of like, but what if I
heard you wrong? What if I got this wrong? And
I think that that is something that just calls us
into deeper and deeper relationship with God and encourages more prayer,
and encourages more sinking because we admit that, in our
humanity and our fallenness, that we don't hear perfectly, and
we do read things in that we shouldn't be reading in,

(03:23):
and we do get confused, and we have to keep
going back to to God, the.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Author of all truth, who.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Loves us to spite us getting things wrong and then
and mistaking our voice for his right, and that at
the end of the day he There's a verse I
can't remember where it was, a Psalm seventy eight seventy nine.
Somewhere in there he remembers that we are but flesh.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Oh yes, seventy eight.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yes, that, and that's really comforting that it is okay
to get theology wrong.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
It's butt dust, but dust. He remembers the year but dust.
It might be both anyway. Sorry, there might be more.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Than one verse that says similar things or a translation difference,
but that we should be walking in that humility of
maybe I'm wrong, and God please reveal to me, and
then I'm where I'm wrong, and then not condemnation of
oh my gosh, I was wrong. That's the worst thing.

(04:18):
I'm going to help for being wrong about this theology.
I'm going to help for saying something wrong about it online.
That's why it's called no wrong questions is that we're
supposed to be asking questions. We're supposed to be trying
to understand, and it's okay if we ask a question
that's super heretical and then we're like, Nope, no, that's
contradicted by other scripture that was completely wrong, and then
you just you just go on because the whole point

(04:40):
of this is to get to know God.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
So to be clear, it's okay to ask cretical question,
it's not okay to push heresy. So that's what we're
trying to avoid. It's not to make that distinction.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, correct, correct, Ah, Okay, Yes, the Bible's pretty harsh
about wolves in cheap scoping, people who know that what
they are saying is false and they lead people into
it anyway.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
And there's a difference.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Between that and just being wrong and when God corrects
you going back to the people that you said something
to you and going.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm so sorry I got that one wrong.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, So in this one we are we usually do
just one book at a time. But Hebrews does a
lot of interpreting for us, making meaning in a post
Jesus' theology of Leviticus. So we are doing one chapter
of Hebrews, and then, however, many chapters of Livid because

(05:39):
we can get to in the time. So we're in
Hebrews too today in this for a Hebrews two, verse one. Therefore,
we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard,
lest we drift away from it. For since the message
declared by angels prove to be reliable, and every transgression
or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we esca

(06:00):
if we neglect such a great salvation. It was declared
at first by the Lord, and it was tested to
us by those who heard, while God also bore witness
by signs and wonders and various miracles, and by gifts
of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. So
this message of the Gospel was was declared by angels.

(06:20):
The Angel that came to Mary and said, you know,
you're going to have a son, and he's going to
be the Messiah, and the same the angel that came
to Joseph and said the same thing, and I think.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
There's one more. The Angel that came to Zachariah and said,
did I talk about the Messiah? I forget. Oh, that's
a good question. I mean, obviously he was talking about
John the Baptist coming.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, that he was going to pave the way for
something it might. Yeah, that's a good question. We read
this at the beginning of Luke, but that was months ago,
and I don't remember. But so, yes, angels were the
first to proclaim it. And then and then Jesus came
doing all these signs and wonders to prove that what

(07:03):
he was saying was true. And then the gifts of
the Holy Spirit that were given in acts. This is
what all these references are too.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Verse five. For it was not two.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Angels that God subjected the world to come of which
we are speaking. It has been testified somewhere somewhere, being p.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Eight.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
What is man that you are mindful of him? Or
the son of Man that you care for him? You
made him, You made him for a little while lower
than the angels. You have crowned him with glory and honor,
putting everything in subjection under his feet. Now in putting
everything in subjection to him he left nothing outside his control.
At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection
to him, but we see him who, for a little

(07:42):
while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned
with glory and honor because of the suffering of death,
so that by the grace of God he might taste
death for everyone.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
So Jesus, when he became a.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Man, was, for the period of time that he was
in a human body, purely human body before his resurrection body,
a little lord than the angels. That's what it is
explicitly saying.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, because humans are lower than the angels.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, yeah, yeah, so that by the grace of God
he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting
that he, for whom and by whom all things exist,
in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder
of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies
and those who are sanctified, all have one source. That

(08:25):
is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
saying I will tell of your name to my brothers.
In the midst of the congregation, I will sing your
praise and again, oh sorry, that was from so I'm
twenty two And again from Psalm eighteen and Isaiah eight.
I will put my trust in him. And again Isaiah eight,
behold I and the children God has given me. Since

(08:45):
therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself
likewise partook of the same things, that through death he
might destroy the one who has the power of death,
that is the devil, and deliver all those who, through
the fear of death, were subject to lifelong slavery. For
surely it is not angels that he helps, but he
helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be
made like his brothers in every respect, so that he

(09:07):
might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the
service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of
the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted,
he is able to help those who are being tempted.
So Jesus was tempted to sin, and we see the
temptation of Jesus in the wilderness in the beginning of
the Gospels. But he did not sin. And there is

(09:28):
a difference between being tempted and following through, and that's
clearing the Bible. So this Hebrews too is following and
expanding on the things from Hebrews. One is explaining to
the listeners that this was written to that Jesus was
not an angel, that for a while he became a

(09:49):
human lower than the angels, but that he defeated death
and defeated the devil and is now going to rule
over everything. That was the end of Hebrews two. Do
you have any more comments? Hebrews is a difficult text.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
I kind of jumped ahead of the stuff last week
by commenting on Hebrews too, so I think all my
comments are then in the previous one. But I think
just reiterating, Jesus didn't just come to wear a human body.
He came to be a human to experience everything human,
including the temptation that comes from the flesh.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
But he defeated that temptation.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
He perfected mankind through himself by living a perfect sinless life.
So it's not just about his death on the cross,
but it's about what led up to it. It's not
just like it wouldn't have mend anything if a sinful
man dined on the cross, right, But it's the whole package, right.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
And he Yeah, I think there's a different I think
we understand like there's a difference between putting on the
aesthetic of something and actually being something. And Jesus was
a human. Yeah, it's a really good point.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
And like he defeated sin and death and so he
defeated sin through his entire life. Yeah, and then he
defeated sin and death on the cross.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah. Yeah, really good point. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Okay, we are on to Leviticus chapter six. We got
five chapters laid. Yeah, okay, so we are just smack
in the middle of the law and pick it up here.
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, if anyone sins and
commits a breach of faith against the Lord by deceiving
his neighbor in a matter of deposit or security, or
through robbery, or if he has oppressed his neighbor, or

(11:24):
has found something lost and lied about it swearing falsely
in any of all the things that people do and
send thereby, if he has sinned and has realized his
guilt and will restore what he took by robbery, or
what he got by oppression, or the deposit that was
committed to him, or the lost thing that he found,
or anything about which he has sworn falsely, he shall
restore it. In full, and shall add a fifth to

(11:44):
it and give it to him to whom it belongs
on the day he on the day he realizes you
can't dither. Yes, yeah, And he shall bring to the
priest as his compensation to the Lord a ram without
blemish out of the flock, or its equivalent for a
guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him
before the Lord, and he shall be forgiven for any
of the things that one may do, and thereby become guilty.

(12:07):
I like here that the first thing he's supposed to
do is make restitution. Yeah, and then he comes to
God for the forgiveness of his sin. And I think
so often in churches today it's like, oh, well, this
person has confessed their sin for God and he's forgiven,
and so you victims of what he did need to

(12:29):
just shut up.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, you have to forgive him as now used as
you have to just let him off the hook for
all of the everything. Also, I do think it's interesting
the distinction that's made of, Like, when you realize the guilt,
you can you can be in this like kind of
holding period where you've done something wrong in your head,
you feel like you've done an okay thing, and then

(12:50):
it takes well for your kindness to be like, well,
actually yeah, and that's when you have to respond yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
That's when God is holding people responsible for the he's not.
I do find this interesting. Ooh, I'm glad you said this.
I'm glad you said this. Quick diversion, this is this
is exactly how I feel about homosexuality. Okay, where and
anything like this where I am completely convicted that that
is a sin. But I think that I believe that

(13:18):
there were people because he's a public person, I will
name him. Sitzer Claven is my example in this. I
believe this Spencer loves the Lord and he's in a
homosexual relationship. I don't believe it's a real marriage, but
it is a like committed he's not being a whore.

(13:38):
It's a committed, loving relationship. And I think that they're
in those cases. Because I don't know what's gone on
between him and God, I am going to assume with
grace that he's in that holding period before he has
been convicted of that.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
People have.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
I remember I had a friend who were still technically
have her as a friend. We're just not as you
don't talk as much. Yeah, who went through this deconstruction
where she was trying to get me to read all
these resources on why homosexuality actually wasn't condemned by the Bible,
like all these context of like, oh, you're not supposed
to sleep with the male prostitute and you're not, but
like that's not the only things referred to the Bible.
But I can see where you can be firmly in

(14:21):
this delusion of I think that all the ways that
the Bible condemns homosexuality are because people have interpreted that way.
I disagree with that the Bible does condemn, but I
can see where I know from my own experience, it
is very easy to be like did God actually say
and to convince yourself something is fine for a while
and then be like, oh, shoot, no I was wrong,

(14:44):
and I don't so like I would be very careful
that I'm not like continuing your delusion that homosexuality is fine.
But I do see where there could be like a
longer gap between conviction, and I don't understand, you know
why God waits so long to convict people.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Or I think that there there are this could be incorrect,
but I'm assuming I am. I imagine sin as being
like built in layers in that like some things are
maybe not that God can't but for the for the
health of okay, that like some things are the first

(15:21):
order things like that God is working with them on
this sin and this thing, and then as he works
down through the layers, you will get there. And God
is the one who knows what order those things are in.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
And I do think it's fair to point out, like
I go back and forth because I think that there
are sins that are just overtly more egregious than others.
Like I would not like in saying something spiteful to
living in open unrepentance sin for years. But I'm not
saying that's what Clayven's doing, because if he's not being
convicted then it's it doesn't matter. But I do think

(15:57):
it is interesting that we don't make the same fuss about, well,
this person has been consistently abusing his wife.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
He is always harsh to her, he is always failing.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
To live up to what God, you know, said to
love your wife as the weaker partners, also breaking the
sacetity of marriage. Yes, yeah, we don't see that as like, well,
how could he be claiming to be a Christian if
he's living in this. Some people do, but it's not
seen as universally condemned of Like, this man is clearly
not a Christian because you know he hasn't responded to
this conviction. And I would argue, if you are an abuser,

(16:27):
you are facing more of God's conviction on a daily
than someone who's just deluded themselves. I forget where I
was going with that, but I.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Just think I think we should be consistent and call
out the respectable sins too. Yes, I also think that
everybody has one, maybe one or two sins that are
really really core to them, that like those are going
to be the hardest ones to ever get through, that
that those are the ones you will be struggling with
for your whole life. Paul ring to you, Yeah, there's

(16:59):
a bunch of different possible interpretations for the thorn and
the whole I was referring to that I was refriend
to the things that I don't want to do I do.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes, you're right, yep.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Be the thord that his flash was a probably a
parishioner who was just really I'm just kidding. That is
one of the theories that it was the whole Corinthian
Church was.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I probably that the Lord will remove you from me.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Luck like Jodah, like please just fire broomstorm court, like
I just do we need them?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
No. It is of course possible that God has convicted
Spencer and he's rejected it of that particular sin, but
that is not my business.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Like I think that.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
His relationship with God is his relationship with God, and
I think that's the case with with everything. And this
is how I have responded to Christians who have come
to me and gone, abby, why are you eating pork?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Why are you like that?

Speaker 1 (17:55):
That they have a set of rules that they're following
that they think all Christians should be following. And they
think that I'm wrong for doing that, and I will
be I always will say to them, if that's what
God wants from me, I am willing, but I need
to hear that from him, and you pray that God
will convict me of that if he needs to, and

(18:18):
then I will sit with that and go God, if
and when you want to convict me of this, I
don't believe that he will because I think that the
law has been fulfilled and all of this. That's where
I'm at right now, But there's always that, like holding things, Lucy,
it is possible I will reach a point at some
point down the line where God will convict me of

(18:38):
something that I have been doing and felt was completely fine.
That certainly happened before in my life where I was
doing something I thought was completely fine, and then there
I reached a point where God opened my eyes to
it and was like, yeah, you got to stop lashing
out an anger like this or whatever it is. I
think everybody has those things, yeah, And I think it's.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Easy to really harshly. There's two things that are really.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Easily to harshly judge in other people as far as
sins go. The sins that you are guilty of that
you don't want to you don't like seeing in others
because it's the mirror and you haven't admitted there in yourself,
so you're really harsh about those, and the ones that
are so far away from what you were ever tempted
to do that it makes you feel good to dunk
on those people for their sins because you would never

(19:22):
commit those like you are just completely heterosexual. Homosexuality completely
grosses you out, and you can see of why someone
would want to do that right, and so you are
like it makes you feel good as a Christian that like, well,
I'm not I'm not like those sinners and like that's

(19:42):
the tax collector and the pharisee. And look that we
did in the Lukes covered in the Luke study where
the tax collector was like, God, have mercy on me
a center and the Pharisee was like, thank you that
I'm not like this text collector, the sinner.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
And I think that there are.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Spencer's relationship is between him and him and God. And
I'm only naming him because I think he's a good
example of this, and because I really love him and
he's a really kind person and I see I believe
that I see the Holy Spirit's work in his life,
and so I have confidence that God is doing with
him what he wants to do with him in the
timeline that he wants to do it. With another example

(20:23):
before we get back to this, I've watched two now.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's been really cool. Two examples on Instagram reels.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I think TikTok as well, but I watched them on
Instagram of former trans men who are trans women, but
men who have recently come to Jesus and given up
their given up their trans identity. They've cut their you know,
they're cutting one of them cut his hair.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
That was the viral.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I might have seen that one, Yeah, viral real that
he was getting his hair cut. It was his last
thing he had been holding on to. That one struck
me because he was so flagrant, still so flagrantly gay
in that, and I was wrestling with it a little bit,
like do I accept this as a beautiful thing that
God is doing when he's still so gay? I'm like, yes,

(21:15):
because the first sin that God released him from was
the trans thing, and then God will get to the
next thing when he gets to it, and you are
allowed to have it. You are allowed to be saved
and have a testimony that says God like released me
from this sin. And I think that we hold other
people to and you have all your sin has to

(21:37):
be gone right now, instantly made perfect.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
But I get to I get to keep my secret
little sins. God gets to I get to like, let
God work on my anxiety forever. I get to let
God work on my gluttony forever. I get let get
to let God work on my horrible anger. You know,
every time I tell someone in traffic to die in
a hole. That's's that Like, this is one that God's
been convicting me on lately, where it's like I'm like, oh, well,

(22:02):
I just got really angry. It's like, well, yeah, but
you it's not a sin to be angry, but it
is a sin to mistreat people in your anger. And
so God's begun convicting me and showing me, like, you
really get like really bad when you're angry. Sometimes we're
working on that right now, and so recognizing that, and

(22:23):
like I've been a Christian since I was like four,
and God is just now getting to this one with me.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
So yeah, I do still struggle with a bit of
cognitive dissonance with the Spencer one because I agree with you,
but and then I'm like, I think there's two things happening,
Like I don't know Spencer that well, so I can't
really speak to like what I've seen the in Spencer.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, I know that there is.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
A tendency in the homosexual community to try to rebuild
a Jesus in their own image.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I don't knowss.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
I think that's what I'm getting from Spencer. But the
people who are like, well, Jesus would love the queer people,
and you know he ate the prostitutes.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
That means x y Z.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
And there is a point at which you are following
a fake Jesus because you I think that that's part
of and this is broadening the topic, part of the
reason why Jesus and people will be like, Lord, Lord,
didn't we do all this in your name? And He's like,
I never knew you. People who think that they are
following God, but they're not following him because if they
were following him, they would know his voice.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
And you can I think.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
A really good litmus test for that is, are those
gay Christians consider themselves brothers and sisters in Christ with
somebody who is worshiping in Jesus who they and they
believe worshiping Jesus and they believe it is a homosexuality,
is a perversion, like they believe the worst possible things

(23:41):
about it.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
And Spencer is publicly.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Stated about Megan Basham that even though Megan, he's like
Megan and I could not more differ on this topic,
but I consider our sister in Christ and like highly
respector and like, and so there's been like a we
absolutely worship the same God. I claim you, you claim me.
We disagree that this is a sin, but that's okay

(24:08):
as opposed to I think that most of the time
with homosexuals who say that they're Christian, I find that
they refuse to have anything to do.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'm a real question, right, and.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
They'll they'll say, oh, you know, your Jesus is so
hateful because he you know, your Jesus doesn't respect and
they'll yes. So that's kind of my litmus test. But
it's honestly, it's between Spencer and God, and if he's
not in heaven, that'll be heartbreaking and I'll be surprised.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
It's similar in some respects, different in aspects because like
there's one time sin and repetitive sin, but I would
consider baptizing babes to be sinful. But like Presbyterians, I
don't think they're not Christians because of it. I think
they're just they're just wrong, very vastly misinterpreting scripture, right,

(24:57):
And there's.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like good faith misinterpretation too.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, of like we're trying to obey God's word, but
we've you know, we've also if you're believing what you
were taught, you're inclined to have conviction with what you're taught.
So it's kind of hard to get that heart aspect.
People feel threatened when you question what they were taught
by their parents.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
I do have more compassion to for or more compassions
the wrong word, but great, probably grace for somebody who
was a homosexual or was in any sin that they're
in before they come to Jesus, and then it's like, Okay,
I'm going to trust God to work back your sin
in as opposed to somebody who grew up in the
church knew what was wrong and walked into homosexuality. Yeah,

(25:41):
already from a point of being a Christian and was
already where he was before getting saved. His whole family
was saved in adulthood.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
There's also one thing that I think is an interesting
example because I was thinking of, well, you're kind of
in a quandary if you come to Jesus and you're
already technically married.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
He's saying you, like, divorce is a sin? Is its
technically divorced?

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Likes That's I don't envy anyone having to navigate that
that thing, because I'm sure there's a lot of confusion there.
But our pastor I say, hours a pastor that we've
been to his church before.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
This was years ago.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
He was talking about a guy who I think, I
don't know if he just newly got saved. I think
he either newly got saved or newly started walking again
with the Lord. He had been married prior he had divorced.
He'd remarried, that's important. He had kids with this new
person and everything. As he's like coming to the Lord,
he thinks he's experienced in conviction that he needs to
go back to his old wife. So he, despite the

(26:41):
pastor's attempts to get him to remain faithful to his
current wife, he leaves his family that he has currently
goes back to the old wife. Had he read the Bible,
he would know in the law, if you divorce someone
and marry another one, you cannot go back to the
person that you were married to before. But that's that's
where there's that's not connected to this spender thing. It

(27:03):
was connected only by the divorcing. But it's just like.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
He was right to be convicted of his sin, and
he was wrong to use that as an excuse to
get out of.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
And I don't think he was using as an excuse
like I think that he did love his current wife,
but he felt like the only way to make right
his sin was to do.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
The sin again. Ah yeah, people, that's all to say.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Conviction is is very hard and not straightforward for some people,
and it can be we are stupid people.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
It can be a legalistic thing, and that's why people
I think genuinely believe that they're feeling conviction from the
Holy Spirit to follow a legalistic.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Law, and it's not.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
And people often mistake their guilt for conviction. And guilt
doesn't necessarily even mean you did something wrong. Because I
can feel guilty when I throw away something because it
still had some use left in it, but it's I
didn't hurt its feelings by throwing it away.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I can see the selfishness in it too. Of like
I can assuage my guilt in leaving my wife, and
because Jesus I don't have to feel guilty, I'm doing
it for religious spiritual reasons, wouldn't stand. Yeah, right, And
it's a way like this can be so hard. This
is so hard for Christians, particularly Christians who have done

(28:18):
something that is considered particularly heinous, like divorce. Instead of
giving their guilt to God and letting Jesus like not
letting but for lack of a better word, please forgive
my imprecise, perfect language, but letting Jesus take their sin,
letting Jesus actually bear the guilt of their sin instead

(28:39):
of in their pride going I have to go fix this,
no matter who it hurts. I'm going to reverse my
guilt and do my penance rather than letting.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
God do what he did.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
That's the thing about penance that really bugs me because
it's like either you're forgiven or you're not. If you're
forgive then it's struck. It's been struck from the record,
So why do you still have to do penance? And
that's not to say I sound like I'm contradicting. Institution
is at difference penance it's punishment.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Penance is you paying.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
For your own sin as opposed to making it right
with the person you heard.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Penance.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
It's like an arbitrary of like, oh, I crawled on
my knees for five minutes.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Penance.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
It's like the fleshly punishment. It's like Jesus took that
like the death on the cross. Do you not think
that was horrible enough?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Anyway?

Speaker 1 (29:30):
No, it is interesting too that people often would rather
do a private penance where they go through some sort
of you know, discomfort, rather than going to the human
being that they sinned against and making it right. That's
more uncomfortable. I mean it is, yep, it is. And

(29:52):
and in the cases where you can't make it right
because it's irreversible, sitting sitting in the guilt and letting
Jesus take it and having that humility.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
All right.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
So this is a good transition back to no on
a transition because this restitution part is it's very specific
and you have to be careful how you are applying
the law to now post Jesus. But the same God

(30:24):
instituted this law. So there are certainly lessons about like
what is right and what is just that we can
take from the law.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
And I think it's I think it's maybe we keep
the spirit of the law because like the Holy Spirit
has written a lot in our hearts, so the reasons
why this happens still exists, so it's less about the
actual thing and the right.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
The law has not been abolished, it's been fulfilled, so
obviously the spirit of it still applies to all of us,
even if this specific statutes either only apply to is
because there are still things where there are things that
no one has to follow them anymore because they've been fulfilled.
But there are things that are written to the text

(31:04):
this israelcial juice throughout its generations. There's no limit, there's
a specific like you're going to keep doing this and
those ones. I think that it would be wrong for
a Jewish person to stop doing That's what it seems
to imply. Yeah, and it has to do with some
of the practices that create memory.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, it's the ceremonial stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, because there's a certain amount of preservation of memory,
preservation of prophecy, like prophecy that's worked into certain feasts
and rituals that the Jewish people have been passed with preserving.
And I think that's a good to point out there
of if God fully meant to eradicate any distinction between
gentile and Jew, you would not have set up a

(31:46):
mandate for the Jewish people to maintain their identity throughout
the years that is only applying to the Jews.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
That's where I think replacement theology falls short, because we
don't pick up those things as if we are the
Jews and Jews didn't cease to because otherwise it doesn't
make it. But some things like, for example, he was
Peter who had the vision about all of the animals,
and God was like, these are all clean, go kill
and eat. And Peter's a Jew, So that was a

(32:14):
very specific like Okay, we're in Rome. Now we have
a better understanding of you know, God's like you humans
now know how to cook things.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Right without dying.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
So this law that I instituted in the desert when
you were wandering around and I knew that you were
going to get really sick from eating pork and shrimp
no longer applies. I'm releasing you from it. So I
think there's examples of things like that where I don't
think anyone, any Christian or Jew, needs to continue following

(32:50):
those laws because the purpose of the law was specific
to a certain context.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
But also it does seem like even earlier Jesus I think,
correct me if I'm wrong on the interpretation of this,
but it seems like Jesus might have released people from
the clean unclean even sooner. In Matthew fifteen ten to eleven,
he says, summoning the crowd, he told them listen and
understand it's not what goes into the mouth that defiles
a person, but what comes out of the mouth. This
defiles a person. I think in a lot of ways.
Not only was the clean unclean thing important for keeping

(33:19):
them healthy, but also to teach them the concept of
something in your mouth defiles you. And this whole time
you're thinking, it's what you're taking in. Guess what the
defilement comes from. It's you're the unclean person.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
It's that progression of.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Moral education where there are things that I remember we
in our science program, the guy who wrote our science program,
doctor J. Wile, talked about how sometimes you have to
lie to the student in the textbook because they're not
at a level where they can understand the higher concept.
So you like simplify it to the point where it's

(33:54):
not exactly true. And God never lies to us. But
the correlation to the moral development is like you you
give them the thing that they can understand, and then
later you go but actually it's not what you put
in the defiles you.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
It's like you give them a thing that it teaches
a thing. You know they're going to understand it in
the wrong direction. But it's still going to teach. It's
like the wax on wax off.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah. Yet you think you learn you're learning how to
wax something, you're actually learning how to fight.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
And so those layers of moral development, which I think
goes back to what we were saying about conviction and homosexuality.
Of like he's in the same way that he brought
like all the generations of humans through. I think this
moral development of like understand this and then this and
then this. I think in each individual person's life, he
is choosing the order of sin to work with you

(34:38):
on in your own personal moral development because like maybe
he could work with you on the anger issue, but
that's rooted in something like deeper, so like there's an
order of operations that he understands.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Like we can't fix the anger yet until we fixed
this other thing first.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
That right, It's like, yeah, he knows where the roots are,
he knows what the underlying causes are. And while I
don't think that trauma is an excuse to sin in
your own moral development, God, maybe you know this thing
needs to be healed before you're going to be ready
to be convicted of this sin before, Like that's up

(35:16):
to God.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah, it's like unloading a truck. You have to unload
the part that's closest to you first. You can't unload
from the back.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
But if you ever catch yourself saying I don't have
to stop doing x y Z sin because of x
y Z trauma, that is not valid at all.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Also, I will say I think it's important to note
just because you are not feeling convicted. If scripture lays
something out black and white and it says that shall
not murder and you're like, I don't really feel convicted
about that, guess what still wrong? And if you're going
off of your feelings as to whether you're going to
beg God or not.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, the Bible says your conscience can be seared that
if you basically if you do what sin too many times,
then you'll start to get a numb to that particular
conviction and so you may have to just.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Just obey, just obey.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
But I think it depends on how you are defining conviction,
because conviction can be a feeling. But I think more
oft of and it's that cognitive You read it in
the word and you go, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
And that's why I think a lot of people sidestep
conviction and I've done it myself, or it's like, well,
it doesn't seem like I see where it could be
saying this thing, but maybe it's saying this other thing
and I just don't feel it. Yeah, And it's like,
but you do know in your heart and you're using
that to kind of speak around.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah. Yeah, very human trade, very human trade.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
But as soon as you realize your guilt, you make
it right.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, okay. Verse eight, the.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Lord spoke to Moses, saying, command Aaron and his son, saying,
this is the law of the burnt offering. The burnt
offering shall be on the hearth on the altar all
night until the morning, and the fire of the altar
shall be kept burning on it. And the priest shall
put on his linen garment and put his linen undergarment
on his body. And he shall take up the ashes
to which the fire has reduced the burnt offering on
the altar and put them beside the altar. Then he

(37:02):
shall take off his garments and put on other garments,
and carry the ashes outside the camp to a clean place.
The fire on the altar shall be kept burning on it.
It shall not go out the priest shall burn wood
on it every morning, and he shall arrange the burnt
offering on it, and shall burn on it the fat
at the peace offerings. Fire shall be kept burning on
the altar continually. It shall not go out. It's interesting
to me how many of these items of the law

(37:24):
had two purposes. One to like teach that foundational thing
about sin that stepping stone piece, but also just basic
like food safety and like when you remove this burnt carcass,
then you're.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Gonna change your clothes, You're gonna take it outside the camp.
Like this is very like so that you don't die.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
You don't understand why this is a thing, but just
like but God knows about bacteria.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, yeah, looking at it with what we know now,
I find it really funny.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Well, because like I need you to do this very
specific thing. I need you to do it very specifically.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Yes, it's like looking back on the guy who invented
hand washing. Yeah, and how doctors previously would go from
autopsying a dead body to helping a woman deliver a
baby m and the like.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Why does she die?

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Why are so many women knowing?

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Well, it's just a thing that happens and now look back,
you're like you you absolute muppet moron, and it's it's
but that's also like how like blind we can be
in our sin of like not realizing you're literally handling
a dead body and then killing someone and you just
have no conception that there's anything wrong, right.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
I think that like we can watch somebody doing us
and that we've been convicted. Yeah about I know about
hand washing. Now we're so sure about it, and then
we watch somebody do it, and you can go, how
can they be a real Christian? How could they possibly
not be convicted about this thing? And you can you know,
realize that, like there were literal medical doctors who did
not have that knowledge of bacteria, so they were doing

(39:02):
those things and then when they finally realized it's not yeah,
So yeah, I think some of it is like we
have more grace for other people's sin when we have
humility about our own sin and our own.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Tendency to be deceived and stupid and all this.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
And also don't be sneaky and try to convince yourself
you're not convicted yet as a response to conviction.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
And it's I think people also, particularly with regard to
homosexuality with someone like Spenser, like realize that me giving
up my fits of anger.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Is a lot easier.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Than Spencer giving up his husband and.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
So, and yet I'm.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Still having t giving up my anger because it feels involuntary,
and homosexuality feels involuntary to the people who struggle with it.
So there are these things that I I'm not trying
to excuse them, because I do believe that their sin.
I do believe that they grieve God. I do believe
that they're a violation of the sactity of marriage. I
do believe that they're a perversion. I could be very harsh,

(40:20):
and I have been very harsh about these sins. And
at the same time, I think that we are called
to humility and grace toward other people's sin, and we're
supposed to We're supposed to not lie to them. Yeah,
we're not supposed to you know, make excuses for them
and all this, but that at the same time, I
think we're supposed to like leave leave them.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
In God to an extent, it is hard to give
up the sin that you want. But also I do Again,
I'm going to sound like I'm really picking on Spencer.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
I shouldn't need.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
So Corinthians. Yes, he has to write them. They are
the thrown his flesh, and they're like, so I have
heard one of you people here is sleeping with his
Was it stepmom or something like that? Uh, this ought
not to be And I will point out I just
I just am small into my entire things about Uh,

(41:17):
there is in church discipline if you are living in
consistencin that is against the Bible. I don't think you
do get to play the I'm not convicted card, and
I don't think Spencer's playing that card. But I don't
think you get to play it for other people where
there is a point at which that is not allowed
to continue in the church and they're excommunicated, and tell
the point of ex communication is for them to feel

(41:39):
convicted and to respond like that is actually to be restorative,
so that the rest of the church is not, oh well,
he's doing it. So I guess it might be right,
It might be fine, like so that the sin is
like the Bible takes sins so seriously, and that habitual
sin so seriously. But I think one of the things
that like you can get as communicated for is reviling,
which is like verbal abuse that but.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
From the perspective of church leadership, yes, like if Spencer
was going to my church and my pastor had never
said anything either from the pulpit or directly to Spencer
or both, making it clear you know where the church
stood not not to because even the Paul doesn't name

(42:21):
the person doing it, He just said.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Somebody is doing it. You know who you are.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
So yeah, there's that fine line. But I think that
there's like a directional like I don't keep I've not
kept it a secret from Spencer in our friendship.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
That like that's where I stand.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, And I think this is this is something that
you're free to disgree with me because I don't know
if I fully agree with myself. There are certain kinds
of like sin and intentionality and where it's coming from.
I think that homosexuality comes from a place of being
deeply broken in your worldview, your perception, your reality, et cetera.

(43:02):
And I think that sleeping with your stepmom comes from
being a pervert, right, And I do think it is
like you have blatant homosexuals who are leaning into perversion.
But I think like that that temptation to be homosexuality
comes from I mean usually it seems like it comes
from someone who's been abused as a kid. Yeah, I'm

(43:25):
not saying that about Sencer, because I don't think that
applies to everyone. I think the Romans makes the distinction
of like, because of like your rejection of God, you've
been turned over to these sins. It's like a symptom.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
It seems generational, like this generation has been turned over
to this because of the evil of this generation, like you.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Know, struggle with this. So like I think I would
I would classify.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Having the struggle with homosexuality as the same as struggling
with lust.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
And where was I.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Going with that?

Speaker 3 (43:54):
There's a difference between like I struggle to keep my
thoughts pure, I struggle with this, and I am looking
for new forms of perversion. So if there is another
aunt out there who's looking for a nephew like something
like that, I don't know. I feel like I'm parsing
Hares and at a certain point it doesn't matter. But
I also feel like it's just how you respond to

(44:14):
people in the church, how you're handling something like versus
homosexuality is an abomination. But I think the reasons why
people do something matter and how you're dealing with the
individual person.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Right, because I think that you can say it is
an abomination in society, the society has been turned over
to this thing, and then in an individual, it's not
that the truth changes, but the reason why that individual
might be in that m is different. It's like, necessarily
I became gay because I was hurt, so like I

(44:51):
responded to hurt with sin, and that the sin is
wrong versus I don't think you can use the excuse
of like I cheated on my wife because I was
as a child, I don't know, or like I was
exposed to pornography from a young age and it created
these pathways in my mind and convinced me I was
attracted to this thing and I was longing for the

(45:11):
attention of an older man, And like, there are layers,
and this is why I think that sometimes a big
sin is like layers of things God has to address
before it is able to be broken off of you.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
And sin feels right when you're in it, Like that's
that's debate on the trap. So I can see why
when you're in it, you're like, no, I feel like
I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, But I
don't know if you can use that, like if you
would feel right when you're doing something, especially I don't know.
I'm getting sidetracked and I'm trying to chase in a
thought that's like running away from me, screaming and oiled
up and naked, so I can't grab onto it, so.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
You and I can, Spencer in order to get out
of his sin, would have to deeply hurt someone he loves. Yeah,
he would have to deeply hurt that the man he's
married to. And I can also understand why even if
he was experiencing conviction, that it would still feel wrong
for him to break his marriage. And so that that's
like a just there's levels of complexity that I'm like,

(46:10):
that's between him and God. Like at the end of
the day, like I just do not envy his position,
not at all, Like this is this sounds like me
being the Pharisee.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
And I'm not saying that, but like I am thank.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
God, Yes, I'm thankful that this isn't an issue that
I have to work through myself. That yeah, I'm thankful
that I only have to deal with the sin that God,
I don't his positions. That's what I try to say,
but for the grace of God, there go I. But
I have my own things that are also not fun.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
But right exactly, yeah, And I think that that's where
he come down to, is like we we do have
that sober understanding of like, I'm still struggling with my
own sin, so who am I to judge?

Speaker 2 (46:47):
And there's that.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Judging whether or not something is a sin is different
from judging an individual.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
If you know what I'm saying of like.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Sitting in in haughty judgment over somebody as opposed to going.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yep, that's a sin.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
And I think it is easy to be like, well,
this person is doing this since to the clearly not Christian,
but in the Corinthian Church. I don't think Paul was
saying that that person is sleeping with his mother in
law or whoever.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Wasn't a Christian.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
He just said he needs to stop, like he's part
of the church, right, And I think the understanding is
if you are going to be a Christian, you are
going to be held accountable for these actions by the
Church who loves you. Yeah, this is for your own
good and so that the sin doesn't affect the rest
of the And I think it points out that like
even even Christians can just be really stupid and sinful. Yeah,
it's not a path to be stupid and sinful. Just

(47:40):
because you're stupid and sinful doesn't mean you get to sin.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, that was a long aside about that. But I
do think that these conversations are really important.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
But let's try to get through Leveticu's six. I don't
know if we're going to get.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
And I also feel free to disagree with everything I
said because I'm still over whether I was even right.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
So this is I think this is a difficult This
is a very difficult topic. And I think that depending
on what position you were in you're what the stance
you're called to take according to a certain sin is
going to be different. For example, if you're a pastor,
you may be called to be a lot firm or
harsher on something than somebody whose role in someone's life

(48:25):
is a friend.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
And I also think there's a difference. Sorry, this is
what I was trying to get at earlier. I don't
know when there's a difference between someone coming into the
church who has just gotten saved, has all this sin,
being allowed to come in and be having a grace
period of working through some stuff. And I don't know
how long that period is. I don't you know, I'm
not church leadership, but there's a difference between that and
someone who's actively in the church falling into this thing.

(48:48):
It shouldn't they should not be permitted to fall into
this thing. So we should snatch them out of the fire.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah percent. And that's going to be on the wisdom
of the church leadership of like, how long for the
sake of the health of the rest of my flock,
do I allow, you know, somebody who is actively in
this lifestyle, yeah, to continue in this lifestyle, especially if
they're public publicly.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
And that's another position I don't envy, elder. Yeah, yeah, okay, mm.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Hmm. Let's start at first fourteen verse fourteen. Okay, and
this is the law of the grain offering. The sons
of Aaron shall offer it before the Lord in front
of the altar, and one shall take from it a
handful of the fine flower of the grain offering and
its oil, and all the franknsons in frankincense that is
on the grain offering, and burn this as its memorial
portion on the altar of pleasing aroma to the Lord,

(49:44):
and the rest of it Aaron and his sons shall eat,
shall be eaten, unleavened, in a holy place in the
court of the tent of meeting. They shall eat it. It
shall not be baked with levin. Levin was a metaphor
for sin, and it was important that they acted out
this metaphor in a ritual manner to understand.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Exactly how thoroughly sin permeates. Yeah, oh, oh, like if
you have a sinful person in your church at living
in unrepentant sin, how that apates our Yeah, I have.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Given it as their portion of my food offerings. It
is a thing most holy, like the sin offering and
the guilt offering. Every male among the children of Aaron
may eat of it as to creed forever throughout your
generations from the Lord's food offerings, whatever touches them shall
become holy.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Then sorry.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
The Lord's booke to was a saying, this is the
offering that Aaron and his sons shall offer to the
Lord on the day when he is anointed, a tenth
of an ephah of flying fine flower as a regular grain,
offering half of it in the morning and half of
it in the evening. It shall be made with oil
on a griddle. You shall bring it well mixed in
baked pieces, like a grain offering, and offer it for
a pleasing aroma to the Lord. The priest from among
Aaron's sons, who was annointed to succeed him, shall offer

(50:45):
it to the Lord as to creed forever, not until, Yeah,
you know, such time as the law is. It's interesting,
it's de cree forever. The whole of it shall be burned.
And God doesn't make mistakes in how he writes things,
So when he specifies that something is forever, I think
it's going to continue, and the kingdom it's going to continue.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
In heaven.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
It's forever. The whole of it shall be burned. Every
grain offering of a priest shall be holy burned. It
shall not be eaten. The Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
speak to Aaron and his son, saying, this is the
law of the sin offering. In the place where the
burnt offering is killed. Shall the sin offering be killed
before the Lord. It is most holy. The priest who
offers it for sin shall eat it in a holy place.
It shall be eaten in the court of the tentive beating.

(51:26):
Whatever touches its flesh shall be holy, And when any
of its blood is splashed on a garment, you shall
wash that on which it was splashed in a holy place.
And the earthenware vessel in which it is boiled shall
be broken. But if it is boiled in a bronze vessel,
that shall be scoured and rinsed in water. Again, this
is a food safety thing. You if you use a
earthenware vessel that is permeable. It just it shows because

(51:51):
we have decent dates on like when this was written
that you would be hard pressed to explain how they
knew to make up these laws without understanding bacteria. Yeah,
but if it is boiled in a bronze vessel, that
shall be scoured and rinsed in water. Every male among
the priests may eat of it, it is most holy.

(52:13):
But no sin offering shall be eaten. From which any
blood is brought into the tentive meeting to make a
toma in the holy place, it shall be burned up
with fire.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Speaking of single use clay, I had a dream once
that I worked at a coffee shop and we used
clay cups like single use clay cups. So we were
in the back of the furiously throwing more clay cups,
trying to keep up with the Yeah, that's the long
time in the head that dream, I just remembered it.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, let's speed run at chapter seven as well, because
we have about ten more minutes, and I would feel
bad if we only did one chapter.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Will take.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Too much of our own words, not enough of gods.
This is the law of the guilt offering. It is
most holy in the place where they kill the burnt offering.
They shall kill the guilt offering, and its blood shall
be thrown against the sides of the altar, and all
its fat shall be offered, the fat tail, the fat
that covers the entrails, the two kidneys, with the fat
that is on them at the loins, and the long
lobe of the liver that he shall remove with the kidneys.

(53:03):
Every time I read long Ove with the Liver, I
get embarrassed again about an interaction I had at the
butcher shop when I was pregnant, because I went in
asking for caliver, which I had no except for the Bible,
which I hadn't read this part of the Bible in years,
so I didn't remember this long lobe of the liver phrase,
which would have perhaps reminded me how big a caliver is.

(53:28):
But in my pregnancy state, I was like, he was like,
how much do you want? And I was like five
and he was like five. What I said, five livers?
And he's like, you know, you don't want five flippers
so much.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
He was like, I want five pounds and I was like, okay,
five pounds of liver was still a ton of fliver.
I love that he recognized that you didn't know what
you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
It. I like five livers and he didn't treat.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Me like I was stupid.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, which is also really sweet and long livers.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Room for the kidneys free shall burn.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Above the altar is the food offering to the Lord
is It is a guilt offering. Every male among the
priests may eat of it. It shall be eaten in
a holy place. It is most holy. The guilt offering
is just like the sin offering. There is one law
for them. The priest who makes atonement with it shall
have it, and the priest who offers any man's burnt
offering shall have for himself the skin of the burnt offering.
That he has offered. So if you do the work

(54:33):
of the offering, you get the priestly parts of the
offering that makes sense, be paid for your labor. And
every grain offering baked in the oven, and all that
is prepared on a pan or a griddle shall belong
to the priest who offers it. And every grain offering
mixed with oil or dry shall be shared equally among
all the sons of errands. So some things go directly
to the priest who who did it, and some are

(54:55):
going to be shared among the lly fights or specifically
sons of arrant, so specifically the levites who are so
I guess if you were a priest who was working
in a different part of the temple, you're still going
to get some portion of, okay, the offer. That's what
it looks like to me. I'm not a scholar on this.

(55:15):
And this is a lot of the sacrifice of peace
offerings that one may offer to the Lord. If he
offers it for a thanksgiving, then he shall offer with
the thanksgiving sacrifice unloven loaves mixed with oil, unloved wafers
mired with oil, and loaves of fine flower well mixed
with oil, with the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving.
He shall bring his offering with loaves of love and bread,
and from it he shall offer one loaf from each

(55:36):
offering as a gift to the Lord. It shall belong
to the priest who throws the blood of the peace offerings.
I don't know if this is fair from a metaphorical standpoint,
but I do appreciate that there are times where you're
just if you want to just bring an offering of
thanksgiving to God, you can bring love and bread of like, you.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Don't have to be perfect to give something to the Lord.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Yeah, I think it's less about giving something to the
Lord and more about like expressing your gratitude that God
isn't policing how you I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, like when when you're making atonement for your sin. Yeah,
like it can't be a blemish. I mean there's I
think there's never an appropriate time where you can bring
a blemish and to God or level or leven bread
in some cases. But but there are other offerings where
it's like, yeah, you can bring a love and love
like in your sin, you can still give thanks Maybe

(56:32):
that's the Yeah, Yeah, you can still bring a peace
offering to God. You can still have.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
A peace offerings for that. Okay, you're right, You're you're right.
I was put attention.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
So I think that this idea of like, when you're
bringing guilt offering, a sin offering, you're not at peace
with God, but a peace offering is one that you
bring when you are.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
It's just for whatever. Love isn't automatically evil, so it's
not like, oh my gosh, I could bring Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
So maybe you don't make too much of the metaphor there,
but I think there are times where I'm like, oh,
I can't read my bibble right now.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I was just mean to my husband, and.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
I'm like that, No, that's probably the perfect You definitely
should read the Bible. Probably when you know the Bible,
I'm more ashamed especially like to read it, but I
know the feeling is like, yeah, I'm scared to read
it now.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
You're right. I can't listen to worship music now I'm unworthy.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
And there's part of me that's like, I don't I
don't want to hurt somebody in my life. And then
turn around and go, look AS's to who shall I am?

Speaker 3 (57:34):
And this verse really suck to me. Today about however,
need samina is such a thing, Yeah, all right, verse fourteen.
And from it he shall offer one loaf from each
offering as a gift to the Lord. It shall belong
to the priest who throws the blood of the peace offerings,
And the flush of the sacrifice of his peace offerings
for thanksgiving shall be eaten on the day of his offering.
He shall not leave any of it until the morning.
But if the sacrifice of his offering is a vow
offering or a free will offering, it shall be eaten

(57:56):
on the day that he offers his sacrifice, and on
the next day what remains of it shall be eaten.
But what remains of the flesh of the sacrifice on
the third day shall be burned up with fire. Again,
this is a food safety thing. You can keep it
one day, not three.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Can not sit out on the counter for trada. You
can eat it on the next day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
If any of the flush of the sacrifice of his
peace offering is eaten on the third day, he who
offers it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be
credited to him. It is tainted, and he who eats
of it shall be or his iniquity.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
And his diarrhea.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Right, it is funny that at this point in time,
being physically defiled with bacteria in a way that would
make you sick is like absolutely equivalent with being defiled
with sin that makes you spiritually sick. Another metaphor, the
little bacteria bacteria fides the whole lump the love the person.
Flesh that touches any unclean thing shall not be eaten.

(58:45):
It shall be burned up with fire. All who are
clean may eat flesh. But the person who eats at
the flush of the sacrifice of the Lord's peace offerings
while an uncleanness is on him, that person shall be
cut off from his people. And if anyone touches an
unclean thing, whether a human uncleanness, or an unclean beast,
or any unclean, detestable creature, and then eat some flesh
from the sacrifice of the Lord's peace offerings, that person
should be cut off from his people. This is like

(59:05):
so serious, Yeah, And there's a part of me that's like,
why is it so serious? I like, because sin is
so serious, yeah, And this thing is like so set
apart as holy and you just completely disregarded you touch
something unclean and then you touch this thing, you spread
the bacteria. And some of this is like really serious
because God's trying to keep these people alive, and some

(59:26):
of it is really serious, Like these two things are
happening at the same time, right, Like God's really trying
to keep them alive, and that the metaphor that He's
working with to teach them this moral development is so
important that it's tricked.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
And it's it's also not a difficult ask.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
It's not like it's not yeah, yeah, you have to
I think some of these things are like you have
to be really intentional to do this. You have to
not care about God's holiness. You're not going to accidentally Yeah,
what if I accidentally have a gun and I'm going
through tsa Yeah, But like when you're about to bring
an offering to the Lord, there's like you better make
sure you're clean, Like, yeah, I think that we'll get

(01:00:07):
to that in later chapters.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Pilitic but all right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Verse twenty two. The Lord spoke to Moses saying, speak
to the people of Israel, saying you shall eat no
fat of ox or sheep, or goat the fat of
an animal that dies of itself, and the fat of
one that is torn by beasts, maybe put to any
other use like tallow or candle, whatever, But on no
account shall you eat it. For every person who eats
of the fat of an animal of which a food

(01:00:31):
offering may be made to the Lord shall be cut
off from his people. Moreover, you shall eat no blood, whatever,
whether are of foul or of animal, in any of
your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall
be cut off from his people. These are because remember
they're wandering around the wilderness. They don't have like right now,
they don't have homes that they're eventually they are, they
are going and they're still going to be keeping this law.

(01:00:52):
But like they don't refrigerators. God knows that. So the
food safety stuff is strict. It needs to be now
that we have the technology to safely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
I think there's also something spiritual about not drinking blood.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, one d percent.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
I still wouldn't eat any blood. Don't consume someone else's
life force or something else's life force.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
But eating fat just have no problem. Don't eat road kill, Yeah,
that you didn't hit yourself, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
The Lord's booke to Moses, saying, speak to the people
of Israel, saying, whoever offers the sacrifice of his peace
offerings to the Lord shall bring his offering to the
Lord from the sacrifice of his peace offerings. His own
hands shall bring the Lord the Lord's food offerings. He
shall bring the fat with the breast, that the breast
may be waved as a wave offering before the Lord.
The priest shall burn the fat on the altar. But
the breast shall be for Aaron and his sons, And

(01:01:44):
the right thigh you shall give to the priest as
a contribution from the sacrifice of your peace offerings. Whoever
among the sons of Erin offers the blood of the
peace offering and the fat, shall have the right thigh
for a portion for the breast that is waved, and
the thigh that is contributed. I have taken from the
people of Israel out of the sacrifices of their peace offerings,
and have given them to Erin and the Priest into
his sons, as a perpetual do from the people of Israel.
This is the portion of Aaron and of his sons

(01:02:06):
from the Lord's food offerings, from the day they were
presented to serve as priests of the Lord commanded this
to be given them by the people of Israel from
the day that He anointed them. It is a perpetual
do throughout their generations. So what this sounds like is
that peace offerings at least are going to be perpetually
in the kingdom.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Yeah, I want to look into this more because like
I always had him, I had that they wouldn't be
doing any more sacrifices. But yeah, that does unless there's
a translation of forever, because I know it's like through
their generations. I would want to look at what scholars
are saying. But yeah, it seems to indicate that, Yeah, well,
and sometimes this is forever, and sometimes it says throughout
their generations. And I wonder if there's a point where

(01:02:48):
like generations end right of like oh, actually there's no
one anymore in Aaron's son's line, like there's Stivilievites, but
not Aaron's or we reached up because it seems in
easy Kuelt because in is Egal, you see, the sacrifice
is still happening in a millennial reign. But it seems
that even though Jesus is ruly and reigning on earth,
there's still things that are like slowly being put into

(01:03:09):
subjection to him, so like, yeah, hear this carefully because
I'm not certain, but it seems that like sin is
still slowly being worked on as Jesus reigns, and so
there is still like a call for sin and guilt
offerings something the opportunity when the devil's released at the

(01:03:32):
end of it for people to fall into sin.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Right, fall into Also.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I forget which verse, but there's a verse that Catholics
used to indicate like, oh, sacrifices are supposed to be perpetual.
So that's why the egoist is a perpetual sacrifice. Which
there's a whole thing you can go into about whether
it's the sacrifice or not. But if this is what
it's saying, that these to be perpetual, then yeah, it's
not about the Eugosi's about like this exact literal thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah, but I after the Millennial Rain, I don't know
if we're still having generations. I don't know if we're
still having children after the millennial Well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Because Jesus said like in the Resurrection, it'll.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Be right, will be like angels right, not marrying and
given a manage. So yeah, there's and that's after the
Millennial Rain. Yeah, the there's a lot of prophecy about
the millennial rain that I'm like, what, because it's a
little bit different. It's a lot different from what I
thought growing up, from what I'm now reading it as,
especially at the end of Ezekiel and in some of

(01:04:31):
the other prophets of all, like, oh, it does seem
like there's a transition period where they're still sin on
the earth and Jesus getting it under his feet and
Satan is bound, but He's still like, there's still something
that's going on there in our moral development.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
All the millennials are raining, right, wouldn't it be funny?

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Wouldn't it be funny? It's a kid just for millennials
to finally make up for the fact that boomers hated
on them so much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
They get their own special citation needed Bible, verse needed,
verse thirty seven. This is the law of the burnt offering,
of the Great offering, of the sin offering, of the
guilt offering, of the ordination offering, and of the peace offering,
which the Lord commanded Moses on Mount Sinai on the
day that he commanded the people of Israel to bring

(01:05:19):
their offerings to the Lord in the wilderness of SINAI
that's a really good place to end that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Like a couple verses wraps up the last seven chapters
that we just read, and the next thing we'll get
into in the next episode. It's going to be the
consecration of Aaron and his sons. So thank you so
much for being with us, thank you for holding on
through our kind of excessive talking, and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Sorry about that I got a fund tracked.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
But I think that it was important. I think that
these even if we're wrong, even if we're wrong, I
think that these conversations are important to have. I think
it's these conversations in a generation where this sin is
so rampant in our generation, in our context, that makers
have to talk about it. And if we're wrong, I
hope that we just started the conversation for you and

(01:06:02):
that you are able to search the scriptures and pray
and arrive at a more completely true place. And I
pray for my own wisdom on it, particularly as I
continue to have friends in my life who struggle with
the sins and any other sins, that God will continue
to give me wisdom on how to interact with that
in a way that he would he would approve of

(01:06:24):
and that would actually be helpful to that person in
their journey and in him. Obviously, my heart is that
God breaks the sin off of those people in the
best possible way with the least possible hurt. Like I
think the ideal thing in Spencer's life, if I was God,
which I'm not, would be the God God convicts both

(01:06:46):
of them at the same time so that it is
a joyful thing and they can be free together and
be friends and have a relationship like David and Jonathan
acting biblical. Yes, yeah, okay, Love you guys. Thank you
for being here, Thank you for talking with us.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Good night.