The Ghost Question, Part Two

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:50):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Alternatively We are.
I still don't know what episodes and Brandon this is
because we're recording it this seventeen now, yeah, we're recording
it the same day, just a few minutes after we
finished recording last week's episode. That wibbly wobbly tibe Winmi
is so fun. But yes, we are launching back into

(01:12):
the conversation that Liz was leading.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Since the Ghost Question Part two.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yes, the Ghost Question Part two, And I felt I
was holding back a lot of emotion in the last episode,
and I'm kind of worried it's going to come out
in this one. I really don't want to cry or
get into stuff, but this is I'm just warning everybody
I've gotten the conversation has made me a little bit

(01:36):
raw over, just kind of looking back on the years
of our experiences living in some of these places that
had these really dark yeah, ghost, demonic, polder guests, whatever
you want to call it, just to recap a little
bit for everybody's sake. Yes, since you guys have to

(02:00):
go the long way around time line, there were so
many experiences that we had from a pretty young age
living in a whole bunch of different houses from when
we were kids to when we were young adults. For
me up to the point where my husband and I
purchased a house, that owning the house is when my

(02:22):
experiences with these dark things ended. And for you, it's
been renting from a Christian woman like a strong like
there were plenty of other times we were renting from Christians,
but this seems at stronger situation. But I found just
a real heaviness looking back at a lot of these

(02:44):
memories of like, why would God allow that kind of
oppression on believersm Like we weren't living in I mean,
we weren't living in sin like. Of course we were
still sinful. Of course we're still in perfect people. But
it's not like you and me were like playing with
Wigi boys in these houses, or or living in sexual
ciner like any anything that you could point to to

(03:06):
be like, oh, yeah, they were holding the door open
for these days. It felt like we were in a
constant state of pushing this stuff back and praying against
it and feeling kind of powerless because we weren't the
owners of the house that we could like kind of
push it out of our rooms for a time. But
it would always come back in and always oppress us,
especially in the spaces outside of our immediate facilities. And

(03:30):
there are memories I have of just being so frightened,
especially outside our homes, but especially that one memory we
talked about where I came home and you. It was
the glass door. It was at night. It was a
glass door. You made a silly face, and I saw

(03:50):
something incredibly evil in between our two faces. She didn't
think I looked evil, No, no, it was not.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
It was and she could see me behind it. Yeah,
it was mail.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
It was something. It was a face that came in
between and just the like, I haven't thought about that
in a long time. The memory of that.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Is like, I have never seen you that shaken before.
I don't think like I've seen you shaken. And there
was other stuff in that in that that was I think,
aside from the house in Maine, that was the worst
place we've lived.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
My ear is itchy. Sorry, it's okay. You have your
moment with your ear.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Where like it's hard to even explain to someone, especially
to someone who's skeptical of the level of stuff that
happened there. And the whole time you're like this stuff
doesn't really happen, so like you're also kind of like
trying to find a way to deny it, like I have.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
I have seen a lot of weird.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Stuff, and still at the end of the day, I'm like,
I don't even know if this stuff is real, and
it's like.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I've literally been in it. Especially when we were younger,
it was like a we were kind of taught that
those things weren't real, that even though we believed in demons,
that we still didn't believe when it came down to it,

(05:06):
we believe they didn't actually interact with the right And
like the some of it, the some of all these
experience has been like a slow drip of like evil
stuff over my shoulder for a lot of my life.
And I know our mom watches these episodes, so I

(05:31):
don't want to be harsh, but I think it's it
would be wrong to not give the context that like
our dad was sitting in a way that would leave
the door open for these things. And I think that

(05:54):
there were times where we were in a house where
the history of something was really long, like the house
in Maine where there.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Was already a foothold.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, our our grandmother talked about playing in that house,
and she already knew it was haunted when she was
a little girl. And then you know, two generations later
were in the same house having similar experiences. Our neighbors say,
oh haha, you live in the haunted house, and of
course our family was just like, well, we don't believe

(06:24):
in and haunted houses. So mom had an experience there
where she was really shaken for a bit and she's
she's extremely like, like we said, skeptical about these things.
But even she she was downstairs and she heard someone
walk across the bedroom floor and I think it was
like open a windoor, close the window, and then sit down,
and she was like, oh, my dad, my dad, her

(06:46):
husband home. She went upstairs and there was no one there,
but like what she heard was like I heard distinctive
human movements. It wasn't like creaking that you could misconstrue.
And the house was creaky, but you could care what
was creaky, Yeah, it was. It was funny, like the
house was creaky. There were a lot of bats, I
especially in the like areas around my room. I constantly

(07:08):
heard bats. Yeah, so like that was a regular part
of our experience, and so we kind of chalked up
a lot of the haunting to that, but there was
also just a reality of darkness around the house. That like,
there was this incredible infestation of spiders every year every summer,
these massive, like horrifying spit Yeah, huge bulbous But I've

(07:31):
never seen them anywhere else. Yeah, but I mean they
exist other places. I'm not trying to say this was
a special type of I had the build of black widows,
but they weren't black widows, but that like that big
juicy rump. Yeah, and they would completely take over both
of our porches. We couldn't be on our porches without
being overrun with spiders. It was just a constant, even
if we kept trying to kill them. They were just

(07:53):
so there. And I'm not saying that like that that
was demonic, but there was there was There was something
to be said for this is a known haunted house,
and it's infested with bats, and it's infested with spiders,
and to the extent that it was difficult to be

(08:15):
on our porches and just enjoy God's creation because it
was an inhospitable place. Now, she what was my thought?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
It was abandoned for a bit, like it was owned,
but when we moved in there had to be a
lot of clean up before because there was like a
lot of baguano in the house that it was just
pretty bad. And I do feel like there is something
in the spiritual world. This ties into what I had
mentioned before, but like the extra extra biblical understanding that
demons are legalistic when it comes to like clams on
a place. I think when you sort of abandon your

(08:50):
right to a place the Bible to talk about, like
the deserted places or whatever it is, something might try
to move in. I have found, even just in the
place where I'm living now, certain thoughts mentalities can creep
in that are like a little bit more oppressive, But
I wouldn't call it like there's something, you know, showing up.
And when I actively take control over my environment and

(09:12):
like steward my room, cleaned my room, organize my room,
that stuff, it's almost like I'm just taking a claim
by actively participating in my space.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yes that, and I tell yeah, I do want to
say because I think there are times where we felt
so powerless over the places we were living to the
extent that I think that it was wrong. Like I
think that that we we got to a point where
we were like we had an unbiblical, untrue feeling of

(09:42):
helplessness about our spaces, that we might have been able
to do something. Wow, And there's it's probably true that
our dad could have gone out and got like spider
spray and like dealt with the spider problem and he
just didn't.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, that checks out.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
But I don't I don't know what to say say
about some of that stuff other than like, looking back
at it, I'm just kind of horrified in the pit
of my stomach over just the sheer number of years
that we had this sort of demonic oppression over our
living spaces. And I think that there's like a way

(10:18):
I'm trying to almost quantify right now, like what effect
does that have on your life or your spiritual health
and your belief about God and your belief about whether
or not God takes care of you? And your ability
even just on the baseline to feel safe and not
stressed out all the time, like higher quarter and you're
that yes, and your agency, your feeling of agency over

(10:45):
your life and particularly over your spiritual life. What does
that do to you to live so long in a
context like that. And I will say I did not
feel that way in college, and I didn't feel that
way at camp. And the best part of my life
was always like my childhood was always going and spending
the summer at camp, and it was always extremely hard
to come home after a summer at camp. And camp

(11:07):
was hard work. It was like hard work, not a
lot of sleep, not particularly great conditions, and there was
a I remember being around like a lot of other
people who would complain so much about the experience of
life at camp, and I'm like, this, but this is
so much better than my home life. What are you
talking about? Yeah, And they'd be like, this sucks. I
was like, well, that's concerning that. This is better than Yeah.

(11:28):
I don't consider as secutude by comparison. And I think
some of it was like I loved the lake and
I love some of like the the things about camp
that like if you focused on them instead of on
the hard work. Like some of it was work ethic,
some of it was well, I grew up in Africa,
so of course living in this dorm is not doesn't

(11:50):
feel bad to me. But so it wasn't all an
indictment on what home life was like for us, but
the spiritual lightness of living at camp was you know,
it's difficult to quantify, and the heartbreak I felt going
home every summer was was heavy, and I think, I'm

(12:15):
just I'm starting to process this stuff more of like
why why did we have these so much of these experiences?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
So sorry, that was a lot.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Of upfront context talking about it, But this has been
a lot of the seeding of our years of conversations
around these things of like what is going on here?
And what can we do about it? Yeah, this is
why Like.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Most of the time, I'm like, I don't think it
really matters if we know exactly what's going on. But
then I realized that there's a part of me that's
like I really would like to know it happened. There
was a stage where I did a lot of reading
on like poldergeist activity and like spiritual activity to try
to get a feel for like what is even happening,
Like how to explain in that house that we lived
in in Maine with like the spiders and stuff, I

(13:03):
had very frequently the same kind of recurring dream where
there'd be a demonic presence in my closet was like
a walk in closet where you could lock the door
and it was like a hook and eye latch, and
dreams about that or in the shed. There was like
a shed on the other side of our driveway, and

(13:23):
in those dreams there would be an extra presence.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I knew it hated me. I knew it was aware
of me.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I could sense its thoughts and what it was doing
to try to to frighten me. And I would pray,
like I would tell it to leave in Jesus' name.
This was like a common dream, and it would leave.
But there was like I've never had other dreams with
like that white hot terror, and I don't even know
how to describe it. And I stopped having those dreams
after moving out of that house. The one, the one

(13:48):
dream I had of that ilk that was like while
we were still between, like we were still moving our
stuff out of that house, but we were sleeping in
the new One is that I dreamed that that thing
was now standing in the my new room, looking out
the window at me and throwing my totes of stuff
out the window at me in the yard.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
And that was the last dream. It was like it
was protesting us leaving. Oh so anyway, but yeah, I
think like it's funny in the last In the last episode,
you were talking about how I how I saw the
face in the window between us and I was crying
in terror, and I, yes, yes, But the thing that

(14:29):
I I caught I catch on there is like but
it's heartbreak. Like it's not just that I've been so scared,
it's that I've been heartbroken and I don't I don't
entirely get it other than like, am I have I
just been like heartbroken that that I.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Didn't think God was protecting me.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
M h that like that that I have. I've been
with God since I was very little. I've I've believed
in him. I've known his presence since I was four.
I have really keen memories when I was four accepting
Him into my heart and talking to him. And there
was like a little girl who tried to get me
to like steal money from my parents, from my mom's

(15:12):
purse and she's like, oh, just take five dollars, and
I was like, no, I'm a Christian. And it was like,
I just have really keen memories of like God being
very real to me, and I wonder and feel as
if like I just I know from a young age
I felt really abandoned by God. Of like, I love
you and I'm being faithful to you, and I'm reading

(15:33):
the word, and I know that in a lot of ways,
I'm reading the word and praying more than the kids
around me, And yet I'm watching you take care of
all their needs and you're not meeting mine, and you're
not protecting me. And for a long time of the
parable of the Samaritan Woman where she comes to God

(15:54):
and she comes to Jesus and she's like, can you
heal my kid? And he's like, I'm I'm this is
for the juice. I shaw I take the food from
Should I take the food from the Jews and give
it to you? And she's like the dogs, oh yeah,
Should I give it to the dogs? And she's like,
but the dogs eat the scraps. And that's kind of

(16:14):
how I felt. Which we've talked about that parable, yes, recently,
so we don't need to go into it, because she
just wasn't being mean to her. It was a test,
but I've taken it. I've felt that way where I'm like,
I'm just a dog getting scraps off the table, and
why can't I be at the table? Even though I've
been a pastor's kid, and I've been a missionary kid,
and I'm like, I should have been at the table.

(16:36):
Why am I not at the table? And I don't understand.
I don't I continue to not understand why I've had
the relationship with God that I've had. And it's not
that I think I deserve better treatment than other people,
but I'm like, why am I not at like the
baseline of other people? And I think there's a way
that we compare ourselves to other people, and we don't

(16:57):
see everything that God has done for us, or we
don't see everything that they're struggling with that they're not
necessarily talking about. But yeah, that's kind of my emotion
from the past from the last episode.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
And I think with regards specifically to the ghost stuff,
or not ghosts, but like spiritual stuff happening, I think
that there's a reason why God shows for these things
to happen to us, to inform our view of the world,
to inform how we approach things in inpreparation for what
we are supposed to be able.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
To see what's real that's probably real for other people
to and just affecting them in much more subtle ways. Yeah,
and also like these things never physically harmed us, like yes,
psychological harm, but we were always we were always safe
from them in terms of like they did try to
torment us, but they never injured us. Like the time
that something tried to push me over the staircase, something

(17:47):
pushed me back right like it legitimately, I firmly believe,
and I know this sounds crazy, but I firmly believe
it did try to kill me because if I had
fallen over the staircase, that would have been awful, like
the angle and everything, but it was God was very
clear of like this is yeah, you can't go that far.
And there were there are stories our mom told us about,
Like there's a couple different stories. One was when she

(18:11):
was young and one when when she was an adult
where she felt like an angel stopped her from falling.
So you might be combining. So there was one time
when she was five, her dad was building a building
their house, and he had not put in the staircase
for the second story, so it was just a ladder.
But there was like a hole in the ground and
she was leaning over that hole and she started to
fall and she felt hands pushing her back. But then

(18:32):
there was one time, this might be what you're thinking of.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
We were walking to church, So I was there, Abby
wasn't I think Abby was at college. No, Yeah, I
think I just wasn't there. I think I was still
in Maine. You were somewhere. Maybe you were at camp. No,
because it was there's still in the record.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
So she slips on ice, and I know that like
time moves slower when something happens, But like I watched
her get lowered slowly to the ground, and I know
it was actually her being lowered solely to the ground
because she didn't hurt herself, like she hit very gently,
as if she had just been like laid down, Like
the look on her face that was kind of like
surprised with like I haven't landed yet.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, Like there's a way that your Malcolm Glable talks
about this in the book Blink. There's a way that
your mind slows down in a crisis, but that doesn't
actually your.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Mind speeds up.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Your mind speeds up to slow down your thought process
on the crisis and like address it moment by moment.
So well, a lot can happen in a blink, which
is the title of this book. But it doesn't make
somebody lay it on the ground softer. Yeah, it doesn't
make them slow down in the crisis. She just like
got back up and we're like okay, and she's like, yeah, that.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Was really weird.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
And I am certain that there there's like a I
don't know how much I've been saved from. There's that
line from I do not recommend the movie Bullet Train.
I was just thinking about this the other night. It's
so bloody. I like that. It's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
It is it is, it is bloody, it is.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
It is an objectively good movie. It's an objectively storytelling
But I was remembering the Other House, like, holy crap,
that was bloody and awful. But no, I did I
did like it. I liked the story. I liked the
idea and the central ideas like you do not know
what fate your bad luck has saved you from? Yes,

(20:18):
And that stuck with me of like, who knows how
many really crappy experiences I had directly saved me from
something bad, And even potentially our awareness of these really
oppressive things saved us from being taken by them in
a way that we could have been well that HAIs
into the burnt host theory of like, just like even

(20:39):
being delayed in your breakfast because you burnt your toast,
did that save you from a crash on ninety five
or something?

Speaker 5 (20:44):
Right?

Speaker 1 (20:45):
And you just don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
And also just like God has to go through different
boot camps because he has different purposes from us, different training,
but anyway to take a kind of a hard swerve
so that we because we have we have a fair
amount to cover. I thought this was all gonna be
onepoe and now I'm like, I didn't even know if
we can fit this in two episodes. But well, we'll
be circling back to this discussion throughout because obviously it's

(21:07):
going to be the same topic.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
But let's watch a couple of videos. So I think
we're starting with the ring footage. The ring footage, O
ring doorbell footag. Yeah okay, yes, I was disturbing thing
caught on cameras. This one's weird, Okay.

Speaker 6 (21:24):
So before she can even enter the laundry room, she
can be seen pausing and the audio from the clip
makes it clear as to why.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Please please lady. So what I will say here, yeah,
is that the words are kind of. I am not
sure I would know what the words were if the
person wasn't.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
It is a strange voice.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And yeah, if we weren't being said what the words are,
I'm not sure I would have picked them out mysel.
That doesn't mean that that's not right. The words being yeah,
please help me, oh please, Oh.

Speaker 6 (22:10):
A voice can be heard desperately pleading for help. It's
unclear as to where the voice is coming from. Clearly
disturbed and worried it could have been someone hiding around
her property. The woman would end up calling the police.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm looking at and see anybody out on the road
or any cards or anything.

Speaker 7 (22:28):
So I went back from.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
The ring video to make sure.

Speaker 8 (22:40):
Here's somebody saying well, I quested it on.

Speaker 6 (22:44):
The police would search the whole property but find absolutely nothing,
And to this day it's still unclear whose voice was
talking or even where it was coming from.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Let's listen to that again without voice of verst that
we can hear exactly.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
What it is.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, I will point out before we do that that
the cop is like it's saying something, but he's not
suret like he's not saying oh, it sounds like somebody
pleading or Yeah, he's hearing. He's hearing something he's marking
as human speech, but yeah he's not. Yeah, I was
saying okay, oh.

Speaker 6 (23:18):
Before she can even enter the laundry room, she can
be seen pausing. And the audio from the clip makes
it clear as to why a voice can be heard

(23:38):
desperately pleading for help.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
First of all, that narrator, the like intonation he uses,
I hate it so much, like I cannot even express
I will usually not watch videos when they have.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
To talk with that.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's like it's like when when you can tell that
the person is just making it clickpick for contents. Yeah,
and there's like almost that juxtaposition between stop cheapening this
really real thing by you just trying to get likes
and clicks on the internet because somehow it makes it worse.

(24:09):
And also it's just like their intonations, like the way
their sentences go down, like they're trying to sound dramatic,
but they're they're bad at it. Yeah. Yeah, and it's
very common that intonation. I think that people will hear
it and think that that's it's weird because it just
feels like they're not remotely affected by the videos that
they're posting. To affect other people, and it's just feels

(24:29):
it's not how a human talks. But if it might be AI,
I don't know, it could be. I wasn't thinking of
that as just thinking that like they just sound robotic.
But anyway, the content of the video, I have no clue.
I have no theories, but it is really weird to
hear something, especially because it's not clear human language, but
it is something of like obviously there could have been
someone there, but if it's someone calling for help like

(24:51):
that who legitimately needs help, you think that she would
have found them when she checked the property, right, And
if it wasn't, I mean, this could be the case
of like a serial real killer playing a recording trying
to get her to come out, but then why wasn't
she serial killed? Her reaction is interesting to me because
I think a lot of times Gavin di Becker talks

(25:11):
about this in The Gift of Fear, which we've offerced
many times at the show, where a lot of times
your baseline instinct knows more than you know. And if
any part of her actually believed that somebody was actually
pleading for help, I think she would have like immediately
put her laundry down in God and like tried help,

(25:31):
but instead she pauses and then she kind of moves
away from it into the laundry room, and then like.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
She's trying to finish out her thought of the laundry.
It is although Gavin de Becker does talk about how
you like you try to talk yourself out of your instincts,
but it is odd to hear something. But she might
have been like, did I actually hear that?

Speaker 9 (25:47):
I was?

Speaker 1 (25:48):
I like, was the audio that bad in person? Or
was it more distinct and clear? Is this something that's
happened before? She didn't mention it happening before, But so
like for me, and maybe this is a little bit
of different story. But like if I thought I heard
a kid scream for help, Yeah, a kid, So this
is obviously different, a little bit different. But like if

(26:08):
I thought I heard someone scream for help, I think
I would immediately run outside and then ascertain if in
my gut I believed that somebody might need help. But
if in my gut I believed, oh, I don't something's
wrong here, I shouldn't go's wrong here. I'm at least
going to like go into the laundry room and like,

(26:29):
think about it for a minute. I think the chilling
thing for me is that it knows she's a lady,
so it can see her, but she can't see it.
Or if it actually said the word lady, right right,
that's true.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
So you know that's just like a choco it up
to that happened. Yeah, Because what I would say is,
I don't think this is a stage thing, because I
don't think someone would go so far as to call
the police.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, no, I don't think it's staged. I don't think
it's staged at all. I do think it's real. But
I think that she knows something about it that she's
not even recognizing that she knows. And it could be like,
and you can see it in her behavior that she
knows it. Like you almost think she's maybe going to
close herself in the laundry room, yeah, and just not leave.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
There's probably her brain is probably picking up on a
lot of subtle cues of like I didn't see anything
when I was coming out, there's nothing in my field
of view that coupled with the direction the sounds coming from.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
How weird it is, how hard it is maybe to
understand other things, like there's a lot of subtle things
that your intuition is just preloading and processing without you
even knowing what's going on. Right, I do think I
want to compare this to your experience with that thing
in your back seat. Yeah, where like this you felt
like you described to me as if you felt like
the thing was was trying to ask you, like just

(27:49):
let me stay here, and I didn't hear anything. Yeah,
and you just got that impression from him it was
severely injured and wanted me to feel bad for it. Yeah, pity,
and it's pity is the thing. And so many of
these types of things, this is like a common theme.
It's not. It's a cross section. It's not. It's not

(28:09):
a common theme in every ghost encounter or whatever you
want to call these incidents, but it is one thing
crops up a lot. Is like it's always it's usually
a woman who's the intended target, and then a appeal
to empathy. Empathy, but it's asking her for some agreement,

(28:31):
like the thing in your back seat was asking you
to agree to let it stay, and the reason it wanted,
like the reason given was empathy. Right with her, the
reason has helped me help me please? It kind of
calls to mind the black Eyed children, and I learned
about those after that incident, and I was like, this
makes me think of that of like, these things come

(28:53):
up and they ask for help, and they ask to
be let inside, and then something bad happens when you've
given them that permission into your space. So yeah, so
I think, like you trust your gut on this, like's
not right, and this is this is such a cultural
thing for women. I think this is this gets women
more than much more than men. It does. It does

(29:14):
get men, but as women in particular, I think we
especially have to watch out for it. This like appeal
to empathy above all other all other things, where like
ignore your instincts, just be empathetic. Don't recognize that criminals exist,

(29:34):
Just be empathetic. Don't recognize it evil exists, just be empathetic.
Don't recognize it the demonic existence. Just be empathetic. Don't
have morality, just be empathetic. I think that oftentimes we don't.
We don't recognize how much Satan works this way where
he's instead of saying, oh, abandon every good thing, He's like,

(29:57):
here's the one good thing. You're going to abandon every everything,
But this one, you're going to do this to the
extent where it becomes a vice?

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Also, oh shoot, what was I going to say? It's
connected to empathy? Yeah? Well, so let's go on to
the next video. And that's what the Blonde Lady. And
this is a little bit of a longer video, but
it's interesting, okay, blood.

Speaker 10 (30:21):
Lady terms weird stuff that happens around the second met
statue in Egypt. This is part two of me trying
to explain the weird anomalies that happen when I visited
a out of bound statue in Egypt, because not only
was there some pretty visceral weird experiences, but also our
cameras kept freaking out.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
And wait till you see the pictures. So where was I?

Speaker 10 (30:43):
This is a professional photograph done by a photographer who
had his camera that he's had since he was sixteen
years old, and this camera is particularly good at taking
very clear photos in low light conditions. He absolutely freaked
out when he discovered that he could not focus his
camera on this statue and this weird like double exposed

(31:03):
photo really baffled him and he sent this photo off
to his team back in Saudi Arabia to say, is
there an issue with the camera. Is this a double
exposed photograph of like two photos over another?

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Is this camera broken? What's going on?

Speaker 10 (31:16):
So the camera forensic people got back to him and said, no,
this photo is not motion blur and it is not
double exposed. This is some weird This is what the
camera captured when it was trying to focus.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
On the statue and couldn't.

Speaker 10 (31:30):
For reference, here is a photo taken in another similar
chamber with similar lighting, same camera, in the same temple complex.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
It's Chris, it's like startledly.

Speaker 10 (31:43):
Similar lighting.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Just to confirm you do have your sound on in
your computer because I know you, Okay.

Speaker 10 (31:49):
Thing, this is the kind of photo that you should
be able to take. And the other one was his
camera freaking out. Now for reference, this is a straight
on photo of sec Ma right here.

Speaker 11 (32:00):
It is here, she is.

Speaker 10 (32:01):
It's very very low light. The only light source is
a tiny hole in the temple scening, which gives us
a little bit of sunlight. Okay, So the photos before
was taken on my last tour in September twenty twenty two.
This photo was taken this week on the most recent tour,
also taken by a professional photographer with his camera. Now,
at first, I didn't notice in anything wrong with this photo. Right,

(32:23):
it's just a person who's walking in front of the
statue and his gobbet blurry. Except that's not a person
that the man took a photo of the statue with.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Nobody in the room. This is not a person.

Speaker 10 (32:37):
This is nobody on the tour. Okay, here is an
enhanced image of the photograph before, and you can you
can see that that that this is not like a
solid purp or this was not a human that was
in the room. Nobody on the tour was wearing a hat,
Nobody was wearing a kind of coat like that. This
is not a reflection of anybody. It's not a reflection

(32:59):
of the statue, because I don't see how that matches
or would even do that. Can someone explain what is
going on?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
How?

Speaker 10 (33:06):
I didn't believe in ghosts. I've never personally experienced like
a ghostly supernatural experience, so I had no frame of reference. However,
one of the Egyptologists that was on the group, when
she saw this photo, she pointed out that this weird
person here looks a hell of a lot like this
Egyptian dude, like it's the same clothes, it's the same hat.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
What like what she had said given some sort of
like the My big criticism for her, I think she
ran out of time to be yeah, but that she
doesn't say what the Egyptian dude was. Where are the
reliefs of him were?

Speaker 12 (33:47):
Like?

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Who could have been? Well, I think that it's not
a specific dude. That's like a common Egyptian dress in hieroglyphics.
I think, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Just a common like reoccurring this is this is what
an Egyptian person might have worn. That I dress did
look more like Pharaoh, sort of like the there's two
different versions of the pharahead dress. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
So to me, I'm like, I don't know when I
say what to make of this, but those sort of
things happen a lot, and it could be just this
is all edited photos. But the way she tells the
story at least makes me think she believes it.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
It's really compelling, and she has she brings her receipts.
I believe her. I believe her. When I first saw
the video a couple of years ago, I want to say,
I'm inclined to believe her as well. I couldn't give
you an explanation as to what's happening. And in some
ways it's because the statue is out of bounds that like, yeah,

(34:35):
they don't usually let people go to it. I'm like,
that's why I'm going on, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
I mean they might they might claim like, oh, this
is because it's you know, not as safe to go
in or not as refurbished, but like I.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Also appreciate like something that makes it compelling. I think
to me is like she doesn't try to suggest anything
in particular interesting. This happened, She says, this happened. This
is another picture that was taken by the same camera,
the same chamber. The phase shift is weird. There's two
like almost they feel like very different things, but they're

(35:08):
clearly kind of the same phenomenon, where one is like
the doubling of the statue and then one is a
different type of doubling of the statue. But instead it's
almost like the priest who's still guarding it or something. Yeah,
but she doesn't she doesn't really suggest.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
What she thinks.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, all she's saying is there wasn't a person when
that photo was taken, but there is a person in the.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, and the and the garb matches these other reliefs
in this particular, like the sleeves and the hat. Yeah,
and it really does directly match.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
And I mean, this is me just extrapolating on a
limb with logic. If someone were to try to stage
a photo like that to make it look they would
probably want the human to look a little bit more clear.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
It's it's zee through before it's enhanced. It see through,
and it's not just because it's in motion. I don't think. Yeah,
I'm not an expert. Yeah, so that could tie into Yeah, actually,
let's stop talk about stone tape theory next. Okay, I
had thought we were going to do a couple more
videos I think in a second. But let's this is
a good segue if you could bring up that article

(36:19):
starting at the section that says.

Speaker 13 (36:20):
Ghosts stone tape theory scientific corn the page paranormal stone tape. Yeah, okay,
that's fine. I sent you the wrong page, so you're
not gonna be able to see it. I don't know
how that happened. It's probably because I was super caffeinated
when I did this. So you don't have to keep
sharing the screen. That's not the right articles confusing. I mean,

(36:41):
that's a useful article, but is it from the same place?

Speaker 2 (36:44):
No, but I saved.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
I have something told me something was going to go
wrong with my things, so I have all three three
paragraphs that I was going to read saved here. Okay,
although actually, if you open up the tab and go
to source material, there's two tabs on this document that
I've shared with you for my notes. If you open
up the tabs section and look for source material, it's
the top link I think, or this it's the second one.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
I think. Let me open sorry on your notes or
or that article. So on my notes there's tabs there
are I will do. Okay, it's a second link down.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
I had backups on backups because I knew something we
were gonna happen. So then scroll to the thing that
says ghost and don't forget to share screen.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I'm having trouble opening it. It's fine if you can't
open I can. I can still, I can just read it,
or I can. Is it still not opening for you here?
Let me like literally show you what's happening. I'm like clicking, I'm.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Still showing the other article.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Oh okay, yeah, you're clearly clicking clicking on it. There
you go.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Oh, because so if you go to the ghost section,
have that there.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I'm just gonna read from my notes because I need
it a little bigger read.

Speaker 13 (38:00):
This is from Malvern PANalytical Duck.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
I don't know what that website even is, because it
seems like it. I'm not even sure, but so it says.
A ghost is commonly considered a residual energy replay. The
cause of an apparition of a past event is sometimes
thought of as being due to stone tape theory. A
tape recorder works by sending an audio signal through the
coil of wire to create a magnetic field. A magnetic
flux forms a fringe pattern to bridge the gap between

(38:25):
the magnet and the tape. This flux is what magnetizes
oxide on the tape and records sound. As iron oxides
are major component of household bricks, it is thought that
extreme emotional trauma can record a flux pattern within oxides
within a building, which can be triggered to form a
replay of energy, which is experienced by an individual after
the event has taken place. We know it is possible

(38:46):
for a living organism to create a bioelectromagnetic field, but
to what extent. What is interesting about hauntings is that
they are commonly associated with tragic or unfortunate circumstances, and
it is thought that during this high trauma that a
magnetic field could be created by the human body which
is strong enough to record a flex pattern within oxides
and building material. This accounts for ghost settings, which are
commonly reported at the same location and often described in

(39:07):
the same way. The challenge with this hypothesis is that
it would be extremely difficult and highly unethical to replicate
and reduce.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, not very testable. I'm not sure many volunteers would
sign up to trial being to a trial being in
a high trauma situation for someone to gauge the level
of bi electrical input and then try an attempt to
create a flux oxide recording which could somehow be naturally replayed.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
It is, however, an interesting theory which may forever remain
a mystery.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
This is not a suggestion. But if the CIA is listening,
only you can.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Do, only you can stop.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
This is the level of evil type of science that
the CIA has done. Yeah, that the Nazis did, that
the KG be due to Japanese prisoner.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I think if Japanese prisoner of war camps, that's why
we know how much water is in a human body,
because they weighed people and then they dehydrateed them in
ovens and then they wait them again. We know how
much water is. That's so great. So then I have
my mind it's this little line. Can our environment act
as a computer being programmed by the things done in it? Okay,

(40:10):
I'm glad you had more thoughts about that, because I
did too. The idea that.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
We have developed these technologies that after their development and
after we've lived with them as long as we've lived
with them, recordings, Internet, all of this stuff feels really
really divorced from nature. Yes, but we built it from nature.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
And so the idea that there could be a naturally
occurring version or form of the thing that we built
the long way round that gave us more control over
it is not outside of imagination at all.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
And the reason I made that note is because I
mentioned him in the previous episode. Charles Babbage, the guy
who believed that sound waves still hung around and that
could be heard again under the same under the right circumstances.
A computer programmer it was one of the first computer
programmers or something. I can interest early computer science or something,
and if you go back to the article, but I

(41:08):
you know, so that's what made me connect. Is like
he might be thinking in terms of computer too, So
obviously it's it's a fun theory. It's not provable or
disprovable ethically, but ethically exactly, but it raises some interesting
questions as to how our strength of emotion impacts the environment.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
And also kind of.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
I don't know where my rest my thought was gonna go.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Okay, suggestion for a way that you could potentially do this,
yes ethically ethically, build a set of townhouses, yes, that
are identical, identical building materials, identical context, and then rent

(41:57):
amount as low income housing to the types like the
types of people to do crime and stuff and abuse.
Basically yeah, yeah, but keep one empty as a control,
and then keep one.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
With a healthy family, and you would have.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
To be very careful about what healthy family you had there,
or some other type of control. Like I don't even know,
I think that there is a way to design an
experiment where you are not causing the trauma, but you
are kind of basically creating the conditions where trauma is
likely to happen over the course of you'd have to
have fifty years, Like it would have to be a
long term.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
You have to thing like sensors and cameras in order,
because you have to record the moment of traumatization, what
that person's electro magnetic field is, which you It might
be like when you observe light, it changes. It might
be that if you have the things in place to
record trauma, the people who cause that sort of thing
would not behave that way with accountability.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
There would I wonder what level of censor you could
put in to a house to record without it crossing
the line into unethical observation. And there might not be
any level sensor, but like, yeah, it isn't illegal to
have a carbon monoxide sensor, so you could potentially have

(43:23):
an EMF sensor. Yeah, some like there might. All I'm
saying is there might be a way to design an
experiment that would be ethical, but it would be difficult.
It would it would be a gray area.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
There'd be some gray areas there.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
So pairing out to this, let me cover this next
little paragraph of my notes, and then let's go back
to a couple of videos. I put a conservation of energy.
So this is a quote from John Kachuba, who's a
ghost researcher in Ghost Hunders, which makes me automatically believe
everything he says. But it is an interesting point, he raises,
But then I have an immediate rebuttal so or not.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
But we'll get there. So he says, Einstein proved that
all the energy of the universe is constant and that
it can neither be created nor destroyed. So what happens
to the energy when we die? If it cannot be destroyed,
it must then, according to doctor Einstein, be transformed into
another form of energy. What is that new energy? Could
we call that new creation a ghost?

Speaker 3 (44:18):
So my response is, but if God is the one
breathing life into everything, that energy is his, so of
course it is neither created nor destroyed.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
It just returns to him. It's on loan from him.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Uh huh. I mean that goes to the verse that says,
like you can't you can't decide when the spirit leaves you.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
You can't stop solve the spirit from leaving you. Now
the question is, though, has it actually been returned to God?
And that in the way that you picture of like
just you know, absorb back in or does it remain
on loan And it's some different aspect.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Until such times as the final amendment. Yeah, that that
is also a question had of like why does God
judge at the end? Like doesn't he know immediately at
the end of your life?

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Right, and he does?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Why don't you just immediately get judged? Like what is
the purpose of this end judgment? And I think part
of the answer is like the story isn't completed, and
what God is doing in the story, Like, yeah, if
he had been judging people before Jesus like that, they
wouldn't have had the benefit of Jesus. And so it

(45:28):
makes me wonder, like what is he still going to
do such that the story isn't over? Even for those
of us today.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
There's definitely when the Boble talks about the mysteries of God,
it's it's not that trite God moves in mysterious ways.
It's that he has not disclosed everything of his plan
to us or how he works. It's a need to
know basis them. We don't need to know, You.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Don't need to know, and he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
I doubt he was, Yeah for now, So actually I
think because I had thought about us going back to
those two other videos that I didn't know where it
wanted to put them. But I actually think the best
thing to do next, because since we're talking about residual
energy is those two videos the two parter. This one
is a little bit scarier, right, trigger warning. It feels
more demonic. This is mostly trigger warning for Abby, but

(46:12):
also to our sensitive yours.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well is trying to call me really since well, I just.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
Know that I mean this disturbed me too, So okay, yeah, okay,
let's see.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I am going to get rid of the segment one
and this these couple of y so I don't have
a bazillion tabs here.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Okay, Okay, have.

Speaker 11 (46:34):
You guys seen this yet?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
You are looking away at the responsible time you're gonna
have to restart.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
As you can see, I kind of saw it, but okay,
the music is all wrong.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Yeah, I just yeah, I don't know why.

Speaker 11 (46:51):
Okay, have you guys seen this yet?

Speaker 8 (47:04):
One of you guys tagged me in this, so I
did as I normally do, enhance the brightness applied. Some
filters tried to find something around her ankle that could
have been pulling her across the floor, not only did
I not find anything around her ankle. After enhancing the
brightness and applying this filter, the back room doesn't look
so empty anymore. So this is the original.

Speaker 11 (47:28):
The back room looks totally pitch black.

Speaker 8 (47:30):
But when she starts running towards the camera, tell me
you don't see something weird? Right as she's running out
of the room, she almost seems to glitch totally out
of focus for a second, like the camera just doesn't
pick her up.

Speaker 14 (47:42):
For a whole frame.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Look, oh yeah, yeah, you stare in that room.

Speaker 8 (47:47):
Tell me you don't see a little black mass that
goes straight across the.

Speaker 11 (47:51):
The back of the doorway there, like up against the
back wall.

Speaker 14 (47:55):
Am I the only one seeing that?

Speaker 4 (47:56):
Uh?

Speaker 15 (47:57):
What?

Speaker 3 (47:57):
I don't really see the black mass he's talking about.
I've I see something that could be what he's talking about.
It's really hard to see.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
It feels like potentially just a shift in light as
she is running in, Like.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Yeah, the video is he's he's really enhanced like brightness
and like it's gonna cause artifacts.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah or whatever. I'm not really buying the back room thing.

Speaker 14 (48:14):
But again, it only shows up with the brightness all
the way up in this filter.

Speaker 11 (48:18):
A lot. It also seems to be moving in there
as she's approaching.

Speaker 8 (48:23):
This manager was to check it out in the original Yeah,
when he's in there, only her as she's running out, though,
Look at her body.

Speaker 11 (48:33):
Tell me you don't see like a burst of energy
coming off of her right before she glitches out of
a camera view.

Speaker 14 (48:39):
I guess you can call it.

Speaker 11 (48:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (48:41):
Look at this, it's like a little burst of energy,
and she almost looks like a different person.

Speaker 14 (48:47):
Before and after.

Speaker 8 (48:49):
I want you to look at two things here. Look
at her legs, okay, and look at her face. Looks
like a pretty normal human girl's legs and face, right,
and then that little glitch happens, okay, and then she
looks like this immediately after.

Speaker 14 (49:06):
It goes from normal glitch to this in milliseconds. Again,
look at her legs, look at her face.

Speaker 6 (49:15):
Now.

Speaker 8 (49:16):
It could obviously be nothing at all, but I just
find it very straight.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, I mean the change between the two frames is
it's just the quality gets worse. I feel like he's
putting too much emphasis on the wrong thing. Yes video, Yeah, Yeah, how.

Speaker 8 (49:33):
Much her appearance changes right after that little burst of
energy comes off of her. They also showed that after
she runs by on her way out of whatever room.

Speaker 11 (49:43):
This is the.

Speaker 8 (49:44):
Camera stationary security camera seems to move all on its own. Again,
it's probably nothing at all.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Oh it does. It moves to follow her. Yeah, which
makes me feel like it's fake. No, No, there are
a security footage. The camera is supposed to follow a movement. Oh, okay,
But I think what he's commenting on is once she's
out a frame, it moves again for some reason. But
he doesn't fully show that part. Oh, as if there
was more movement than it was going back.

Speaker 14 (50:10):
To Okay, just find it kind of wild.

Speaker 11 (50:15):
She goes from this to this in milliseconds, and then.

Speaker 8 (50:19):
The black thing in the room when she's being pulled
and the camera moving by itself.

Speaker 11 (50:24):
I don't know if I'm her, I'm putting in my
two minute notice. I don't really care how much she makes.
It's not enough to go on this ride.

Speaker 14 (50:31):
No Surrey, she grabs.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Okay, yes see, you're right, he's focusing on the wrong part. Yeah, okay.
So she gets pulled a long way across the room,
and as she is getting to that like threshold place,
she has got herself turned around and she grabs her
own leg. Yeah, and it's like this like, no, I
do not consent. And and that is when she gets

(50:54):
free of it, she's able to get up and run.
And I think that that is more because from what
I can tell, from everything I've been able to tell,
biblically extra biblically, consent has a lot to do with
whether or not these things can hurt you or not. Yeah,
And that she in that moment, especially on the threshold,

(51:17):
doesn't let herself get houlfully into the dark, but gets
herself flipped over. She houlds her leg out And I've
watched it a bunch of times, and I really can't
see how you could read in there's something tight around
her angle dragging her and she unloops it really quick.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, that doesn't look right.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
And also, yeah, it just to me it seems like
something is legitimately dragging her. That's not a Also, the
way she's dragged the way at tension of a rope
would be. I think her foot would have stayed loaded
the ground or would have stayed up. It wouldn't have
been like she's like raised her leg and it's still
dragging her.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
I don't know. I could be thinking too hard about
the wrong.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I have more thoughts, but they're like bubbling up from
and I'm gonna save them for after the second part
because I'm also seeing something else here.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
But I want to wait. Yeah, so let's watch the
second part.

Speaker 14 (52:00):
Nope, Nope, this.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Might show they So let's do that second.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (52:09):
I posted this video the other day, right, and uh,
you guys pointed something out to me.

Speaker 14 (52:14):
That I didn't even notice. In the background.

Speaker 11 (52:17):
Here you see this evil little thing.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Well, it looks like Moana, but it's like evil Simpsons.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
Okay, what is that from, you might ask, Yeah, this
little pinata has been causing nothing but problems for this man,
Mario Lara from Mexico in.

Speaker 14 (52:41):
His party store where she is trouble is not.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Far away.

Speaker 11 (52:49):
Like that something like or that or that.

Speaker 8 (52:56):
I had no idea when I was making that video
that it came from his store until I saw the
evil little pinada. After reaching his breaking point with the
paranormal activity going on in his store, he ended up
having a shaman take this.

Speaker 14 (53:07):
Pinata because he believed that's where it all came from.

Speaker 8 (53:11):
But after the shaman took the pinyada, things just got worse.

Speaker 14 (53:17):
Things got much worse.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Also, you burn it and they release the thing in it.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Go back a few seconds because there's like a one point,
I go back a little bit further, sorry, further before
this clip to the clip previous. So there's one point
where like a little particle goes across the thing. Often
in videos where there's something crazy happening, there's like a
weird amount of particles that float in front of the thing.
And that's supposed to be so yeah, and it could
just be desp but it is.

Speaker 8 (53:44):
After took the pinata, things just got worse. Things got
much worse. The activity just got more frequent, more violent,
just crazier in general. As you see here, things flying
all over the store, things spinning.

Speaker 14 (54:07):
Stuff flying off the wall.

Speaker 8 (54:09):
Here he had workers trying to stalk the shelves and
objects just flying off the shelves at them.

Speaker 14 (54:16):
Same thing. What happened to customers here? You see him in.

Speaker 8 (54:19):
His I believe son playing toss with a balloon in
the store. What the hell is that, guys? So he
went to get the pinata back from the shaman. Well,
during his trip, something was spotted in the backseat of
his car. Cut to present debt. One of Mario's employees
volunteered to stay the night at the show.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
Here you see him playing a v R.

Speaker 8 (54:40):
Game before going to bed, watching the back.

Speaker 14 (54:45):
What in the world is that?

Speaker 1 (54:49):
This kind of thing makes me start to be like, Okay,
now you're just maybe not faking something, but like monetizing it,
And I think that is a We're gonna talk about
that more in the Poltergeist. Then okay, but yeah, well
but I also think if you are going through something
like that, I can see being like, I could.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Use this to make.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Money, right, But like why if somebody and this is
where I start to like have questions, Yeah, if you
genuinely believe that all this creepy stuff is happening in
your store, and then what you you stay there alone?
This guy?

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Who is it?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Who volunteer? Was it just a worker?

Speaker 3 (55:28):
I might not believe This might guy might be like,
I think you guys are all full of bunk, and
I'm going to stay here to prove it.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
That's how I took it.

Speaker 8 (55:33):
Okay, This little apparition forms, works its way across that
stacked dry wall, and then.

Speaker 14 (55:42):
Eventually just a little child full sends it across the room.

Speaker 11 (55:45):
Yeah, he eventually lays down to go to sleep.

Speaker 14 (55:48):
Notice the tube TV that.

Speaker 8 (55:51):
Is not plugged in, turning on, working its way over
to him, and then shutting off. Mario then went live
on YouTube to go over the footage with his viewers.

Speaker 14 (56:01):
Look at this doll in the background. What why is
it blinking? Yeah, this is live.

Speaker 8 (56:10):
A few days later, he's doing work in the back
of the store and this happens. Notice the drill is
not plugged in and it does not take a battery.

Speaker 14 (56:25):
So, yeah, now that I know that this came from.

Speaker 8 (56:28):
Mario's store, it just makes it so much crazier to
me and explains why I saw something moving in that
back room.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
So the one thing about the drill thing is it's
briefly not in frame. I could almost see I don't
know if there's time for but I could almost see
someone turning it on quickly unplugging it and it's just
winding down. Sure, but I don't know how they would
have staged that well enough to make it because it
does come back in frame fairy.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
So there's a level of sick I feel after watching that.
I did warn you it was very bad. Yeah, no,
it's it's that like pit of my stomach sick, and
I don't. I don't. I don't even know entirely how
to describe it. So it's almost subsumed the earlier feeling

(57:10):
that I had. So the earlier feeling I had was
just like the emptiness of the video of like oh,
what you were going to say to talk about? Yeah,
of the original with her getting pulled across the floor.
It's like how almost soulless the video feels of like
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Like a mindless force is just acting on her. It's
not like something intentionally trying to hurt her. It's just
the thing that happens.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Like there's a level of I don't even feel like
revulsion or fear about the video because it just doesn't
feel even real. But it's not that I don't think
it's real, because it's like too soulass to even be staged.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Right, It's it's there is another video I don't I
don't have it to play it where this guy's working
out alone in a gym and something similar happens with
the dragging, and it's very clear from the from the
image that nothing.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Is attached to him.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
It's like that weird of like I don't.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I don't know how to continue speaking. It's like the
camera's only catching such a small portion of what's actually
happening that it feels like you're watching a too, like
a bad drawing, like a bad animation of like I

(58:26):
know that there's a story here, but so much of
it is missing, like that there's no it's there's a
there's a massive disconnect. It's like the absence of something
is in and of itself startling. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
And it's just like it's so random of like she's
just doing her thing, minding her business right, and then
something like a like what is what is the intention
of the thing?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Like had she not escaped, what would have then happened? Right?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Or is it just to terrify her and it was
going to let go anyway?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yeah, And then it makes me like even more disturbed
that they know all these things are good, because then
there's a level of participation if you are regularly filming things,
regularly monetizing them, making content out of them, continuing to
employ people in this store, hang out in this store
with your child as these things are happening, Like at

(59:20):
some point have you not partnered with it and then
that seems extremely evil.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Well, it then raises the question, do you maybe know
why it's there? Do you maybe know what you did
to invite it? Because it does to me first blush,
I like, I can't. I can't say I can claim
to know what is causing it. But I do think
that at least most of the things in that video
were legitimate without doing some further research as possible, further
digging would show that it's And we're going to talk
more about this in the Poldergay stuff of like there's

(59:48):
a there's something that happens when a haunting sort of
becomes famous where then you start to see fake stuff
crop up. But I'm going to save that rightfully. Yeah,
I want to break real quick. Yes they're back.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
We had some emotional support foods and I I think
I will more than just he need to use the bathroom, things,
things of that nature. I needed to process one thing
I was thinking because I was like, is this a
correct response? And I don't think that it is this
being this being I hate them, my I have this

(01:00:29):
visceral response to the people who own the shop. M hm,
that of like visceral disgust, and I hate them, and
I think that that is what the demonic realm feels
about them, that they are continuing to play with this
evil thing as if it is a game. Yep, and

(01:00:51):
they're like, oh, it's bad, very scared.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I think they're foolish.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
There are such fools, and I think that there is
I'm not I don't think that I am having demonic emotions,
but there is like a there's something so gross on
them that it's difficult not to hate them. I think
what you might be missed labeling maybe is that you

(01:01:16):
hate the demonic and you hate that they are engaging
with it because the actual well I could be I
could I hate what's gotten on them, like the the
and it's it's oh. And maybe that goes back to
like the emptiness I felt in the original clip, even

(01:01:36):
though I didn't have context of like I don't feel
anything for the girl who's being dragged across the room,
but it's like I think she's the same girl. And
in the other clip where the thing like flies out
at her and she runs away because she runs very similarly,
I could be I didn't even notice, and it's like,
at some point I don't feel like I'm watching, so

(01:02:00):
something bad, do something evil to somebody innocence.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
It's like they deserve this because they're messing with it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, these are all characters in this same play that's
being I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
I think it is interesting this is connected, but not
really all the people making all the horror movies that
are like really intense and you hear about or is
it the Exorcism where there were there was one where
there were a lot of accidents and maybe even some
deaths on set related to it, and then there were
a lot of I've heard several horror movies probably do
a whole episode on the Exorcism series or the is

(01:02:34):
it the I think it's a series. And like the
supernatural stuff that happens in the theaters, people leaving the
theater is not being able to fit. Like there is
I think an extent to which it can happen in
both directions where something is happening and then you start
engaging with it. But there's also when you start engaging
with it before it happens. You can invite it to

(01:02:56):
happen in that way of like oh you want you
want a ghost, I'll show you a ghost or something
like that. I actually did change the order of my
notes a little bit because I do want to just
launch into Poulder guys stuff, because I feel like then
after we finish all of this heavier stuff, we can
then discuss some of the more benign theories to end out. Sure,
so I did want to talk about like some of

(01:03:19):
this I talked ahead of time where I did like
a lot of research on Poldergeist and it never even
just like knowing that I believed it was demons, it
never full It felt like the explanation didn't quite hit right.
It wasn't like I was trying to deny that it
was demons, but it felt like that's not the whole answer,
or there's something else going on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
And that's what I think I felt about the these
are nephelum ghosts, like it might be part of the answer,
but not all of the answer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Like there's something satisfactory of like but you're missing something
or I don't know, I don't know exactly how to
explain it. But there in all my research on Poldergeists stuff,
it ended up feeling like there was a mix of
things happening. So there's a general trend in every Poulter
Gez's haunting that I've read about, where you start with

(01:04:05):
some things happening in most that are legitimately strange and
that are tormenting the family. So you'll hear of like
beds let thetating in the night, things flying cross the room,
chairs getting stucked. That's a very common thing in these hauntings.
Stuff catching fire randomly, Like there was one family where
they could not have a peaceful night sleep because they're

(01:04:26):
staying up all night trying to like deal with the
next thing that's catching fire in their house. Yeah, so
there's some legitimate like I don't know how you could
fake all of this, right, And so it looks in
most cases it looks like something legitimately is happening. But
then as it continues and as it's getting notoriety, you
do start to notice some things that like, oh, I

(01:04:47):
think we caught you, like palming something that you were
gonna throw later or something. So it would be easy
to based on that, and I think people would want
to because like they don't want this to be real.
It would be easy to be like, Okay, I guess
they are lying. Then I do think it would be
worthwhile to study the psychology of the specific and unique
mental illness that would cause someone to do this if
they were faking it, because that in itself is its

(01:05:09):
own thing. And it's usually centered around children just entering puberty.
There are some cases where it's around adults. So this
is not one hundred percent, but it does seem to be.
Like there's one adult where she had like a really
traumatic thing happened just before she had like necrosis of
the gums caused by a boris hair toothbrush I think

(01:05:29):
I recall, And she was lying in bed like horrible fever,
and then as she's coming out of this fever, these
things start happening. This was like I want to say,
eighteen hundreds, maybe nineteen hundreds.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Oh wow. So there's a prevailing theory.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I say prevailing. I've run across it several times. It
seems to maybe be within these people the circles that
study polter Guy stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
It seems to be the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Theory that there is a reason why it's centering around
children just sort of just entering puberty or going through
something traumatic. Is that right as they're going through this
intensely traumatic period, they unlock something inside them kind of
like they pull a carry some uncontrollable telekinetic abilities that
they may not even they usually probably are not even

(01:06:12):
aware they're doing it. This is a theory, okay. And
then this gets them a lot of attention, and that's
a lot of validation. Like they are, they are traumatized
by these things happening, and they're not doing this on purpose,
but it's also filling in need.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
It is filling in need like this is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
It's not happening to emotionally well people, and so they
get a lot of validation from the adults in their life,
and everyone's rushing to answer the question and document the thing,
and so they kind of structure their existence around this haunting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
This becomes their meaning for them, so to speak. And
then as they begin to grow out of this phase
and stuff kind of stops happening, because it's like this
burst of psychic energies, if you will, that does dissipate
over time as you're coming out of puberty, sure or
or out of whatever. Start at this they don't want
to lose that validation and attention, and that's when you
do catch them starting to fake things to interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
I mean, I think you can make the same argument
even without the telekinetic piece, that there is a okay
I have Okay, there's like two lines of thinking that
are happening at the same time. Let's start with a
traumatic Yeah, because vig Joy Anderson talks about this a

(01:07:17):
lot around sleep paralysis, that it seems like just kind
of across the board with stuff around children, oftentimes there's
this heavily traumatic thing, and many times it is a
medical it's a medical trauma. Yeah, that that seems to
originate this thing, and that seems to be a different

(01:07:40):
conversation maybe related, but still like distinct from something that's
around around puberty. M h. And it's hard to like
come to a conclusion about both of them at the
same time. I would wonder with a medical trauma where

(01:08:01):
the kid feels so out of control and none a
being comes to them and goes, I can help you.
And so it's as they have accepted the help that
the things start. But that because they're a child, that

(01:08:21):
God might not necessarily allow that to be a consent
for their whole life, but that as they reach the
like as they reach puberty, puberty, as they reach an
older age, that that being's power over them wanes if
they're not continuing to be in agreement with it, or
even if they cut off agreement with it because they

(01:08:43):
start realizing this is scaring me or whatever. Right, because
kids will often like the things that bother adults do
not bother children. Like a child will happily set something
on fire. They're like, this is amusing to me, right,
and then as they as they mature, they're like, wait
to say it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Yeah, so in in like that respect, like the child
seeing all this chaos is like, ooh, chaos, this is fun, right,
and then they start realizing, oh, this is actually getting scary.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Yeah, but they can still be faking it for the
attention around it, especially if they weren't getting enough attention
prior to the thing or the child you think it's
about is not the child it is about, as one
child is having a medical trauma and so it's getting
a ton of attention on the other one's the one

(01:09:28):
who's actually causing the stuff to happen. But my my, okay,
I'll like you respond to that because my other idea
is like a completely different can of worms. Okay. They
I haven't seen a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Of cases where it's like a really medically involved situation.
But the reason while the pinpoint on a specific child
is because there's usually one person that it seems to
be targeting, like all the activity is, it's most active
around this person. But sorry, go in actually to the context.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Yeah, so it to be clear it is the same
person who had the trauma that the poltergeist activity seems
to be targeting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Yes, and this activity will still happen even when they're
not home, So you can to a certain point be like,
this child is just really clever and faking a lot
of it. But you cannot explain ever, and a lot
of these things, you cannot explain every single occurrence unless
the entire family is in on it and the film
and crew. And I do think there's almost like this
guilelessness where a child can make a deal with the

(01:10:25):
devil in the same way that we've talked about people
in Hollywood making deals with the devil, but they're like
much smaller deals for much smaller periods of time, for
much smaller things. It's just I want to feel better
because like it's yeah, the medical trauma is so big,
and I.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Think that, like you shared with me about a mutual
friend who had like as a kid, kind of made
a deal with the devil of like I just want
to sit around and play video games all all my
all day and it so it's like those like at

(01:11:02):
four for yourself. Yeah, yeah that that something like that.
It's like, oh, how seriously is that taken in the
spiritual realm. Do they have to continue to re up
that deal as they get older or does it have
a grip on them until they have some sort of
repentant moment in it? Because I don't think God is

(01:11:26):
would go sex to be you. You made this deal
when you were foreign. Now I won't save you. I
don't think that that's how it works at all, Because
the devil doesn't own you, so you're you don't own
your soul. Your soul is not yours to sell to
the devil, so the devil cannot own you, right right.
God can always redeem those situations at any age. But
my other theory was around the puberty thing, because this

(01:11:51):
is another complex thought putting a couple things together. Yeah,
it seems pretty clear when we look not too hard
at sex magic and God's commands around marriage and sex,
that there is something happening in the spiritual world with
sexuality that we don't understand. So that's peace number one.

(01:12:15):
Peace number two. There is a lot of in our
culture today, an incredible amount of demonic activity around puberty
happening right now with the trans stuff them with them, yes,
where it seems like puberty is the moment that the
demonic is attacking kids in one way or the other.
And I think in different generations it's been maybe different

(01:12:38):
primary ways and secondary ways, but right now one of
the primary ways is the trans stuff.

Speaker 14 (01:12:42):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
And three, I wonder if that is because it is
the age of content. It is the age when they whatever.
I don't know if God has a hardline age. I
don't think he does have a hardline age. I think
the age of like understanding or the age where God
holds you accountable is different person a person. But I
think at least in Jewish culture, the barmit'spa batmansvah happens

(01:13:07):
around fourteen, and that puts it right in that realm
of puberty. Different cultures put it different places. In I
think our Western culture has moved it all the way
to eighteen, and so it's it's completely divorced that from puberty.
But I wonder if that line is there and that's
why there's so much demonic interest around you around that age.

(01:13:28):
It could very well be so I wouldn't. I don't
think I buy the teleconesis thing. What do you think
about the telecnesis thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
I can't dismiss it out out of hand, the reason
being like I had done a lot of reading before
I encountered this theory, and as soon as I read it,
I was like, that's the thing that makes the most
sense of this specific situation in terms of if you're
ignoring like the demonic explanation, like this explains why it
seems to take on these specific qualities. But I do

(01:13:58):
think that your idea of like some sort of deal
with the devil that's happening around that time would make
a little bit more sense.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Or at least like some sort of demonic oppressions. It's
like trying to get at that moment of not ever
letting them have a moment where they could choose God
and lock in on God. But like at the moment
that they're crossing that line into when they can be
held accountable, they're catching them as soon as possible and
trying to trap them in something.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Yeah, it's it's a good question, and I feel like
there's there's still so much that I just don't understand
because I don't have, you know, all of the knowledge
in the world, which is irritating to me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
But I, yeah, what was I gonna say? It was connected?

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
There is something so poltergeist means noisy ghost, there is
something that sets apart those things. And let me circle
around to why I've fixated on that more than other things,
because you're not I don't think you're I don't think they.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Ever see anything. There's no like apparitions of something, but
it's just it's like something is just trying to destroy
your peace at every possible moment of just like things
breaking stuff that is specially to you. There are a
few cases it is rare with blood seeming to see
from the walls or from things, which is like, okay,
that is weird where I'm sure this will be a

(01:15:11):
completely separate conversation, but I think we see the same
sort of stuff around and Catholics call it like miracles
of stuff around.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
Certain No, there's a lot of crossover. Yeah, yeah, And
to me, I guess part of the thing is like
they it doesn't feel like I mean, it feels evil,
but it doesn't feel like the kind of thing you're
seeing when you see it, like a ghost. Like this ghost,
there's a story behind it. It appears it's this person who
was wronged, like the Poldergeist thing. It doesn't seem to

(01:15:40):
have any clear starting point aside from like there's trauma
around it, but there's no like, Okay, you can pinpoint
this exactly is why it started, right, It just it
starts and then it goes on like a storm, and
then it just stops, and it's like the chaos is
it's like chaos. Yeah, it's like there's some amp in
the house, just like he I'm throwing things, and then

(01:16:00):
it goes away. It's not like it's trying to seek
to possess a person. It's it's just weird.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
It just it torments into and then it burns itself
out almost kind of. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
And part of the reason why I fixated on this
specifically is that I felt like almost got a taste
of it living in the Halls Mills House. The main
one because there were times I'd be lying in my
bed at night and I would hear stuff falling off
my shelves that wasn't near the edge of my shelves,
And there were so many times when you and Mom
would be like, like you lost this thing, Like how
could you lose keep track of this thing? After moving

(01:16:31):
out of that house, I did not lose track of
things in the same way, like I was still messy,
and so would I would lose stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
I don't ever have this problem now, But it was
to there to the degree where it was like, I know,
I'm not being this careless or forgetful. My stuff is
moving without my knowledge, like to get me in trouble,
which sounds like like a persecution complex, but like it
just it felt. I felt like I got a taste

(01:16:59):
of like something like that happening, but not to the
same out of control degree. But also like that that
walking closet I mentioned. I chose that room because I
wanted to plan in that closet and build a fortinite right.
And then I realized I there was something it felt
very wrong sitting in it. And this could be checked
up to the house being old. But the hook and

(01:17:20):
I latch, you could close the door and it would
stay closed until suddenly one day it just wasn't closed,
having not gone into it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Yeah, I can I can back up all this. I
felt creepy sitting in there. I want to I was
excited about all the time we were going to spend
playing in there. I mean literally never, because I spent
one time scoping it out and I was like, nope,
I'm out. Like I almost got the feeling of like
something was going to close me in there.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
But yeah, so I'll have to say that's kind of
what got my fascination about this thing, where it almost
feels like this is something outside the normal supernatural and
the more diggy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
I was like, this doesn't even feel demonic in the
way that other things feel demonic.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
It feels that's why the telepath was a telekinetic thing
sort of clicked to me because it felt like this
is a different creature altogether.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
I do think it's a different creature. And if you
look at like the mythologies, yes, you have the Fay,
you have the like actually demonic beings, yeah, and then
you have these like imps and sprites and gnomes and
little little elves that are.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Varying degrees of maliciousness. Yeah. So we do have one
more we have more clips. We have one clip associated
with this type thing. This is the one with that
same dude. I forget the title that's on it, but
I think you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 8 (01:18:37):
Yes, this dude footage you guys are about to see
was captured by my favorite paranormal investigation team Mine Seed TV.
Never done this before, but I am going to put
a little disclaimer here. For one, there is a jump
scare at the end, and for two, this whole thing
was shot with no cuts. Heard the ongoing request from
k C. Tanner and Colton subscribers, they left one camera rolling.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
It's a little mist leading when he says that because
the whole video that they have a shot with no cuts,
he does cut it himself in the footage, but the
actual original footage is uncut.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Okay, from start to finish.

Speaker 8 (01:19:10):
I'm gonna show you what I can fit on TikTok,
but I am begging you guys to please go watch
this video on their channel when you're done.

Speaker 11 (01:19:15):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
I appreciate that he he doesn't like explicitly say I
cut it, but like yeah, he heavily implies that he'd
cut it, like go to the source, Matania.

Speaker 8 (01:19:21):
Yeah, I've been doing this a long time. I've never
been this scared watching a YouTube video simply for the
fact that it is not humanly possible to fake a
couple of things that happen here.

Speaker 6 (01:19:32):
Just watch.

Speaker 15 (01:19:33):
Viewers request is constantly no cuts, no edits, and that's
where we're gonna give you right now.

Speaker 11 (01:19:40):
Pay attention to the chairs at the table in the kitchen.

Speaker 15 (01:19:44):
I love it is, so do not turn off and
it's locked. Why would they want somebody turn.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
In these things? Chair stacking?

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
Oh and all that sound you just heard was the
chair stacking.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Oh he's going back to shouther. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:20:13):
I think, oh my god, how what speed at which
it was happening, and just the precision of how they
were stacked.

Speaker 14 (01:20:33):
There's just no way that a person could have done this.
He is not joking.

Speaker 11 (01:20:37):
I mean you see Casey literally points his camera into
the kitchen right all the chairs are at the table
to where they're supposed to be. Knocks on the door,
turns back and they didn't even see him at first
because everything on the ceiling was swinging.

Speaker 14 (01:20:49):
But then one of them sees it. They all freak out. Guys,
when you.

Speaker 8 (01:20:52):
See this video and the way those chairs are stacked,
it just doesn't make sense. So I cut it out here.
But after that they go fix all the chairs. That's
why they're back where they're supposed to be. Points his
camera in the kitchen again, takes what three steps upstairs,
and then boom, there's four of them perfectly stacked behind him,
and I'm talking if they're off a hair, they're all

(01:21:14):
on the floor.

Speaker 14 (01:21:15):
Period.

Speaker 8 (01:21:15):
So then they take all those chairs, put them on
the floor the way they're supposed to be, and then
they head upstairs to see if they can tell where
the bang came from.

Speaker 11 (01:21:20):
I don't have time in this video, but the upstairs
was eventful.

Speaker 8 (01:21:23):
Then Casey and Tanner's flashlights start bugging right out, high
quality flashlights, brand new batteries, so they start getting overwhelmed
with this really dark energy. They head downstairs and then
this happens.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Colton behind me, But it wasn't Coulton.

Speaker 15 (01:21:42):
Those footsteps.

Speaker 8 (01:21:49):
Please just go watch the original, then come right back
here and let me know what you guys thought in
the comments.

Speaker 14 (01:21:54):
Just amazing yet terrifying.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Tilin there are operations connected to Poltia stuff, So what
is your initial thought?

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
I feel like I don't have enough information, especially for
the apparition part, because he like did cut out a
lot of stuff. I would have to watch the original.
It always should raise alarm bells when somebody their entire

(01:22:25):
income stream is this stuff, and like that's what the
footage is. I'm a little bit less leery of the
guy commenting because he's just commenting like, yes, that's the
content he makes. I'm still a little bit like maybe
that's not a good idea. But the chair stacking is

(01:22:46):
creepy in a way that I don't know how to
like explain.

Speaker 3 (01:22:49):
And that's a very and I know I mentioned it,
but that's a very common element, like it's almost I
think it happens in every Pouldergeist thing. Don't quote me
on that, but it's the very like chair stacking or
other things getting stacked and probably and really fast, like
you leave a room when you come back at stacked,
like you don't even know how it could have had
time to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
Is it a metaphor? Like what is trying to be communicated?

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
I don't know if it's anything past. This is clearly supernatural.
And I'm trying to scare you because like you can
tell with your human mind that this didn't a person
didn't do this, Like like, let me do something that
proves that there's something at play beyond humans, if.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
The repetition of the stuff across experiences could be evidence
for everybody faking the same things. But it's interesting that
they would choose the same things. Yeah, and then the
way that they're stacked, there's something like viscerally off about
the way that they're stacked. And I don't know why
my brain is feeding me tower of Babbel because I

(01:23:52):
don't know what the connection there would be other than like, look,
I can stack things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
I can build towers too, I don't I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Know the apparition thing.

Speaker 12 (01:24:02):
I am.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
I'm kind of just unwilling to interact with the apparition, yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
There's not enough context.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
Yeah, and I like, I was kind of surprised it
was in there, because most of my research, if not
all of it, has not included apparitions is involved in
these things.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
That doesn't mean there can't be two things happening at
once in a house.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
But it's like you tell, you tell somebody at the
beginning of your video there's a jump skirt at the end,
and it ensures that someone's gonna watch your whole video,
and then it's like, Okay, maybe your whole video was
real up until that point where you bake that in
for the con like, wait, just I have questions.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
That's the editing guy doing it where he's like, oh,
I see a video where this thing happens, let me
cut my video so that I can use it as
a teaser. So I don't know if that speaks to
the The.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Originals didn't say, hey, there's a jump skirt at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
I forget if they did. Maybe they did that, maybe not, Yeah,
so I would I would have to watch the original.
I am a client, like my personal thing, I am
inclined to believe there is something doing something and people
did something.

Speaker 15 (01:25:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
So there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
There are the people who come in and who investigate
poltergeists stuff. They are really thorough and they will watch
and they they will often if you can think of
a of a natural explanation for something, they are going
to choose that over the other thing because they are
trying to be very strict in And this isn't the
case for everyone. I'm not talking about these dudes, but
I' talking about people who are coming in to observe

(01:25:28):
a family.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
This is happening too, and.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
They will often catch and record when they have caught
someone in the act of doing something, so you can
tell their invested interest is not like, oh, well, we
want it so badly to be true that we're going
to cover up when someone's faking something. So when researchers
have said I can explain all these things, but these
two things I couldn't, and it really felt different. I'm
inclined to believe. Oh yeah, yeah, sifting through there was
something happening. I couldn't give you an explanation as to

(01:25:55):
what's causing it. Yeah, it's so hard in the culture
of it's becoming in the world we're in so much
harder to sift out what's true and what's false because
of the incentive structure of the algorithm.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Yes, because if someone is are making money for this.
Although I will say sorry, you had to just mentioned
something earlier and I meant to come back to it
about like someone's entire income stream being something, I agree
with you. However, I do think when you are the
kind of person who goes from haunted place to haunted place,
not only are you going to invite something to come
with you. That was actually my whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
I did not only thing, like there is an extent
to which you become a focal point.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
I think in the spiritual world.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Yeah, and stuff does happen with greater frequency because you
are there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Because you're there, and because you're consenting to it, because
you want it to happen, because you want the content,
like your whole heart is like I hope something happens
and we get it on camera and it's good.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
Some of these people might even be doing some sounds
as originals ahead of time to try to invite something too.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Yeah, you know, you never know. So like there are
different levels of because I think that there's there's a
level of fear that a believer could get to where
it's like what if this happens to me? Especially for us,
where it's like it did happen to us to an
extent and like what do you do about that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
I do really like what Kevin de beckhast to say
in his book The Gift of Fear, where he's like,
I'm really gonna just paraphrase the spirit of what you're saying,
where he's like talking to someone and she's like, well,
I'm just afraid that is if I'm walking the dark,
I'll see someone walking towards me, and he's like, would
someone walking towards you be harmful to you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Or are you afraid of what they'll do to you?
But like we misplace our fear of like the image
of someone walking toward us is just so terrifying, but
that if the person is walking toward us, they're not
actively hurting us, and they might not even you might
just Also, speaking of which I meant to mention earlier,
it's not really connected, but it's connected to Mom's alfa pie.
There was one time my friend and I we would

(01:28:01):
work together to close It was just as too. We
were walking to our cars.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
This is not supernatural, but it was creepy and it's
dark out and as we're walking, this guy darts behind
a bush to hide, and I was like, I.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Didn't I think there was a car nearby. I associated
the car with him, but I was like, hey, Katie,
let's just walk a little faster and get in her cars.
Like I just kept it really calm, and ever since,
I was like, I don't know what was he doing
because he didn't come after us. He didn't want to
be seen what was going on because it was very shady,

(01:28:34):
like anyone who's there for legitimate reasons, wouldn't need to
dart behind a bush. But you know, no one broke
into the building that night, you know, anyway, was I there? No?
I don't think you still. I don't think you were,
because I know one time John was like hiding behind
the dumpster because he didn't want me to see him
until after the ship. I was like, wait, have we
secretly accidentally got a chill in siding. No, it was

(01:28:58):
only one day anyway, and this wasn't near the dumpster,
and it was it was just me and Katie closing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:01):
So unless he was very confused and then never fessed up,
you know, it's also not as big as John. I
don't think, Yeah, what was I thinking here? I do
wonder if one reason for our experiences could be that
I am because I know these things and because I have,
like I have seen things that are worth being afraid of.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
I am much less scared of what people think of
me or just random like things that concern normies. I
guess I'm just like and like they called you racist, okay, Like, yeah,
are you racist?

Speaker 16 (01:29:39):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Okay, Like there are just little things like that where
I don't connect with the fear of them, and maybe
that's why, and I don't know, but.

Speaker 3 (01:29:49):
I also think someone explained it to me, and I
don't like that person and they greatly betrayed me, but
I do think that they had a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
It was Phil from the church.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
Oh. He explained to me that love how were just
naming names. I didn't give his last name, which is
Phil Pride and prejudice. So oh no, that's Christians secret.
Were not to be so clear, never not talking to
not sue us. Phil, you have excellent music and you're not,

(01:30:19):
as far as i'm aware, an evil person anyway. Uh,
and I don't think you're bald either, and anyway, it
doesn't matter. And so Phil was explaining to me that
he has seen this was after for context.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
The reason he was telling me about this is that
I had had a dream about a shooting happening at
the church, and there's a lot of weird stuff that
happened around that time, and it was such a very
clear It was not a scary dream. It's just very clear, precise.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
I remember this, yeah, yeah, And then I had nightmares
every night after until I told people at the church.
I was like, just in case, and uh, it was
really hard getting the church people on the phone because
both of our phones kept dying as we were trying
to make that phone call. By my battery went from
full to empty in two seconds. Like anyway, it was
really weird. So I told him about that, and then

(01:31:11):
something weird did happen at the church that indicated like
possibly something was about to happen, but because they had
a greater security presence, it's really hard to tell if
it was a legitimate dream or not. But the context
was he was explaining he has had more experience with
missionaries who it seems like if you have been in
a country like Ivory Coast, which is like a very
animistic culture, and you've had those experiences, you are much

(01:31:32):
more aware of all that stuff that's happening, Like you
see through more clearly. And I think that there is
a way in which maybe you are marked in the
spiritual world by some of your experiences. So if you
do encounter something once you're tagged and then it keeps
showing up around you. Again, I could be wrong on that,
but I do think that they like it when someone
can see them.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
Hmm, I don't know, so yeah, that's my thoughts.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
On that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:58):
If you don't have any more thoughts on Polder, guys,
I'll move on to the next theory I.

Speaker 11 (01:32:05):
Could.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
I can definitely be with you that whatever poltergeist are,
they are not They're not ghosts, they're not dead people.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
I would almost it reminds me I had a thought
and I forgot about it. I would almost say the
things that we have thought of as demonic, of like
ghost separation stuff, those are actually ghosts, and the Poultergeist
is actually what's genuinely demonic. I know I said I
didn't feel demonic, but like I'm reclarifying my position genuinely
so in terms of so.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say genuinely fallen angels, Like, well, no,
that's what I was.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
I was, Okay, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:32:40):
In that context, demonic is is what we what we
have understood to be demonic is actually what's happening in
poltergeist stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
But ghost stuff is a separate thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
What yes, Okay, the children their angel always sees my
face in heaven. Okay, uh huh, what.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
What if their angel has fallen your guardian angel?

Speaker 1 (01:32:59):
Is? This is probably so off? Okay, I want to
be very careful not blaspheming angels. So God, I pray
against that, because this is not my intention to blaspheming angels.
It's the thing the Bible wints about. I'm trying to
decide in my spirit if the thing I was gonna

(01:33:20):
say is actually not okay to say, wow, I don't know,
I really don't know. I mean I would err on
the side of caution then, or if there's is there
a way you can kind of talk around the edges
of it without saying the actual thought. Dear Lord, please

(01:33:46):
please either make it clear that I shouldn't say it
or give me a way to say it. I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
I'm trying to keep them from dead air, so that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
Yeah, I know, I think that the thing I was
going to say would hinge on the idea that angels
are continually falling for really dumb reasons, for reasons of
wanting to continue having power past the point of puberty,
which I think is probably in blasphemy against angels and

(01:34:24):
just in general.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Well, I think if you're asking is this something that happens,
I don't think that counts as blasphemy. If you're saying,
this is something that happens it could be.

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
I don't know. I'm not afraid, but I am afraid
that I do think that the rule against blaspheming angels
is something to the effect of these beings are so
much higher above you that to like minimize them into
these little things with like stupid little human motivations or
whatever it is, would be really wrong, or to cast

(01:34:54):
it such a serious thing to suggest that this angel
has fallen when it's not. What is the verse about
blasphemy angels? I couldn't tell you off the top of
my it exists. No, I believe you. I was trying
to find it. So the thing I was trying to

(01:35:18):
answer was this, like, why does it get really around puberty?
Why does it get extra active around puberty? And then why.

Speaker 2 (01:35:29):
Does it stop?

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
Yeah? So, but I don't think I'll say it like this.
I think I would answer my question to say, I
don't think any angel that loves seeing the face of

(01:35:53):
God every day because they are the guardian angel of
a child would fall with the motivation of I'm losing
my grip on this child because it's going through puberty.
Moved to another child, Yeah, if they got reassigned. So
I think that my idea made no sense. But yeah, yeah,
and it made no sense that I think it was

(01:36:14):
inappropriately disparaging. Uh huhick. So I didn't have any more
to stay on the subject. If we have more thoughts
to come back to, I'm happy to return to that.
But I was wondering if maybe we should do our
next two video so then we can get to go
through the more harmless theories and then close off feeling less.

(01:36:36):
I don't feel kryptoup, but I feel like you feel
krypt up. Yeah, but like the issues of so Thorny,
I could keep like on them forever, right, And that's
what I've you know, done off and on when I've
done the research. Is like I just kind of want
to get a handle on what's happening, and I don't
think that's a possible thing, and I don't think we're
meant to, which is kind of what I've landed on
more recently. Okay, so is it the do we only have?

(01:36:56):
We have two left?

Speaker 3 (01:36:57):
It doesn't really matter which order we the man the
this is the Iraq one, Yeah, let's do that first
and then we can do the dogs freaking out one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Okay, so this one is potentially a little disturbing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
It's this archaeologistticking up burial ground in Iraq when he
started hearing some crying out from underground. You can hear
shackles and grunting, like a growl.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
That was a good dinosaur.

Speaker 16 (01:37:58):
Yeah, it's not yet.

Speaker 7 (01:38:03):
M almost like a scary almost of times. Yeah, or
like a weird I've.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
Nothing like that.

Speaker 16 (01:38:23):
That's a weird sound. Instruments, a lot of them.

Speaker 5 (01:38:53):
Yeah, it's just coming out of a tiny little hole there.

Speaker 11 (01:39:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
I think that's what he's trying to show, is like
they dug was it like a burial place they said,
dug into it was saying that it's like linked.

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
Yeah, I think he's feeling the ground to see he's
feeling vibrations.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
That's my guess. Maybe there's like a wind coming out
of there or something. So there are times where it
sounds like a human sound, like it's like someone's calling out,
in which I would case, I would believe. No, like
the humans are just legitimately changed up under there for
some reason. There's some other access and they're you know,

(01:39:42):
in distress. But there are some sounds that I'm like,
I don't know if a human vocal cord could make
that sound, yeah, even even to fake it. I don't
know what you would do to fake it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
Yes, And it's such a varied sound. It's not the
same thing playing over and over where it's a recording.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
Yeah, because I could have almost said you just took
the soundtrack from Jurassic Park right right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
There was a couple of moments in them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:04):
But there's a couple of moments where it's like it
almost sounds like the rubbing of an engine, but not
really like there's just too much variation in the sound.

Speaker 3 (01:40:10):
It was like if a vocal cord could make a
rubbing engine sound really well, like the reason the rubbing
engine thing. To me, I was trying to think of
the best way to explain it of I think if,
like the the layout of something that's just right, the
wind can make sounds that sound really weird like that,
like the whistling of the wind, but worse, I don't

(01:40:31):
know what to make of that. It is deeply off putting, yeah,
to be clear, and I would be inclined to think
whether it's supernatural or not, something nefarious is happening.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
Those aren't nice sounds.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
I will say.

Speaker 12 (01:40:48):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
I didn't read all of the text on it. Maybe
I should have, but the idea was that this is
potentially the site they were looking at. They were trying
to say, is potentially linked through underground tunnels to a
location where it's speculated that perhaps is where the the
angels an Enochware chained.

Speaker 3 (01:41:08):
Yeah, I was talking about Raphael chain these four angels.
It does connect in my head to a video that
it's not as it's not supernatural, but I don't because
it's connected to my thoughts.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
I'll just talk about it. So there's this area. I
do not know what it's called.

Speaker 3 (01:41:22):
I think it's like the Devil's Hole because I remember
being like this sounds inappropriate, but it's a swimming hole
that's not swimming. It's it's a cave. It's it's there's
water in it, you swim down into it. It's very
dangerous to swim into, so it's not a swimming hole.
These three guys go to explore it, and like you
have to have scuba dear scuba dear tanks and stuff,
and so they go down and then they come back

(01:41:42):
up and the two of the guys realized the third
one didn't come up, so they're like, we're gonna go
back down to look for him, and it's really dark
down there, and as they're going down, one of them
is going much faster than the other and he gets
out of sight and the other guy can't keep up,
and he reaches the point where he's like, I just
need to get back to the surface because something's wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
So he goes up.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
The others never resurface. They send in some divers, like
professional divers who often dive in this area to try
to find it because there's there's a there's a tight
area that you squeeze through, and what can happen is
if you're trying to swim back up through that tight area,
there is a little side pocket that you can accidentally
get into instead of going up. So he checks the
side pocket because there's a pocket of air in there,

(01:42:22):
and they're not in there. So he swims to the
bottom and this is when he and his dive partner
realized there is a hole in the bottom of what
we thought was the bottom of the cavern, and there's
actually current that tugs toward it. It's not super strong,
but it is strong, and so they unfurl like a
measuring weight hanging thingy that goes to like nine hundred

(01:42:44):
and thirty two feet or whatever, and hells it the
whole way, so it's at least that deep. And he's like,
we're not We're not diving down there because the current
is probably strong enough to not get.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
Out, and so they did.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
They suspect that the people who are down there developed
nitrogen narcosis from running out of oxygen and did get
sucked down there, and so they tried to do some
more research, but they did find a few years later
there was a really big earthquake two thousand miles away
in Mexico and a tsunami came up out of that hole.
And they're like, the best we can figure is there

(01:43:14):
is an underground ocean that is connected from.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
This hole too, that far out.

Speaker 3 (01:43:21):
So the idea of like vast areas of the underground
that are connected has nothing to do with Okay, does
that mean that there's ghosts.

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
In them or whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
But you're like, is this if if shield is a
physical place and it's in this, could you hear what's happening?

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
If there were like plot twists, there are still dinosaurs.
They just never ever lived on the same They just
live underground, yeah, or they used to live above ground,
but they've gone underground. Yeah, Or they used to come
up more, but they don't come up more as much anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
Yeah, because we don't feed them as many chimckens. But yeah,
I to me, I'm inclined to think.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
They stop sacrificing versions. Yeah. Yeah, this is me just
my my self made metric for whether something legitimate or not.
If it were fake, I feel like there'd be a
lot more playing it up of people talking over the
sounds and be.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
Like, oh man, you heard that sound, You hear that sound,
And it's just.

Speaker 3 (01:44:13):
Like, I'm just filming the sound that's happening, right, And
even if he's kind of used to it, yeah, well,
or just like he's trying to figure out what it
is too, and like the whole it seems like he's
maybe trying to feel like what's happening on the screen
doesn't seem like that special or interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:44:30):
It doesn't feel like he's trying to film something. It
feels like it looks like he's shaking a little bit.
Oh yeah, at the beginning, I was going to bring
that up, like it's a very shaky cam. But yeah,
he seems to be trying to show with his hand
with like how big the little hole is, yes, and
like how big the area around is, to like give
you some scientific data on it, which I appreciate. Yeah,

(01:44:50):
but sorry, I finished the thought from earlier. Yeah, what
I do want to warn about because I I don't
know yet why, but it seems that this obsession with
the Enoch legend, yes, and everything that flows from it,
including this like oh, angels are bound somewhere here, yeah,

(01:45:11):
seems to be feeding into part of what's going to
become the Great Deception. And so I think I would
just know what it is, know where it comes from,
know what you believe and why, but also be so
careful because I think that this has, like I said earlier,
the Nephlum stuff has become I might have said this
earlier in last week's episode, but it's become almost this

(01:45:32):
thing of like, you're not a real Christian, you're not
a good Christian unless you understand that the Bible and
this is the thing that opens up the entire Bible.
And if you don't accept that, this reading of Genesis six,
blah blah blah blah blah, and it's like, at some
point if it was that important. God would have been
quite a bit more clear about it, one of the

(01:45:55):
New Testament authors would have talked about I mean you
could argue that you did, like it's a little bit there.
I think there's a enough there, like, and.

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
There is a Peter, one of the Peters does a reference.
It could be construed as.

Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
It right, but it's it's certainly not in like if
you don't read the entire Bible this way, Yes, and
you disagree because I think that there's a compelling argument
for the other way of looking at things. Yeah, that
the angels never have any sexual contact with humans. Ever,

(01:46:25):
I do think that there's something dangerous there, and I
can't quite put my finger on what, but I've been
getting unquiet about it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:31):
Yeah, well, and I think part of it is I
think it's the same thing that's happening with the rapture stuff,
where we have people who aren't even Christian coming in
and coopting this thing of like this the Bible says
us about the rapture or and then like there was
a while where everyone was obsessed with the euphrates drying
up and these angels, and it was like people who
had no frame of reference for biblical stuff, but they

(01:46:53):
just like they glombed onto this thing and then it
just kind of it commercialized it. Let me tell you
what it feels like.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
It feels like they want the angels to be released
so that they can have sex with them.

Speaker 3 (01:47:08):
I mean, at least they want the angels to be
released to cause chaos. But yeah, it is it is
possible that that's what's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
Because it feels like the interest, like it is a
prurience interest. Yeah, the obsession about it seems to be
a little bit like and I'm not accusing I'm sure
there are people listening who are like heavily interested in
I'm not accusing you of wanting to sleep and we're
talking about like the sort of the non Christians who
are co opting this mythos. But yeah, some of the
like and some of it is like what is the

(01:47:37):
driving spirit, like the driving demonic spirit that's even driving
good people to be interested in this in good faith?
It does feel like, why are you so obsessed with
the idea of trapped angels and why are you so
obsessed with the idea of meeting with angels and producing giants?
Like it is a very odd fixation on a very

(01:47:57):
like massive sexual crime. But also what was I gonna say?

Speaker 3 (01:48:04):
I think something like this, like they slap that on there,
and we just have to take their word for it
that this is happening in the context they're saying it's happening,
and this could be some random other place they've just
found this really horrifying audio connected to the video. Like
I do think the video on its own, but that
the explanation, Like I would just disregard the entire commentary
on it and just be like, wherever this is happening,

(01:48:24):
this weird thing is happening, and come to your own
conclusions about whatever that thing is. Aside from Nick, I
would be more likely to believe that like they stumbled
across a dinosaur fite underground yea, than that we're actually
talking about. I mean the shackle, yeah you did you
hear the clinking of yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
And it is actually probably possible.

Speaker 3 (01:48:47):
This feels like a cop out, but it is possible
that there is some underground work going on. And the
way sound happens in these caverns, like the way sound
is taken by the pockets underground, it is sort of
morphing and sounding unearthly, but it is.

Speaker 1 (01:49:00):
It's just you know, or they caught footage. They caught
footage of the the lizard the lizard people keeping the
dinosaurs in chains in their lizard.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
People for their lizard milk.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
Yes, yes, that's where I was going with that lizard
milk was definitely it's gonna be my next thing that
I was gonna say. I knew That's why I said it,
because I was going help me out with your thought.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
Okay, so moving on from this, because we're part two
of the show that I thought would I was worried
wouldn't have enough material in. It's going to be also
over two hours, so let's do that final video and
then we'll do the final discussions. I've definitely made this
longer bite.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
No, let's see. I heard my dogs going ballistic outside
and found the same woman just standing outside of the
gate at minute, same woman as what the context is
she's been showing up the past few nights. Same woman.

Speaker 17 (01:49:55):
Yeah, listen, did you leave now?

Speaker 4 (01:49:59):
I'm telling you now, I'm gonna let them out. It's midnight.
What are you doing here? Leave now?

Speaker 17 (01:50:07):
It's midnight. We're not we're not playing any more games.
You are educating my dog. I told you late at night,
my guard dogs are out, and they're out. I'm not
gonna be babysitting. You broke into the property three in
the morning. They're gonna come out, bless you.

Speaker 4 (01:50:26):
You need to leave now, which you need to leave now.
I'm letting them out. Don't come any clothes. I'm gonna
let them out. I'm gonna let them out. They're here
and they're waiting.

Speaker 17 (01:50:40):
I'm gonna get leave. The police has been looking for
for four days now. There's no one around. This is
my place.

Speaker 4 (01:50:48):
I don't know where you're coming from.

Speaker 17 (01:50:50):
I don't know where you're coming from.

Speaker 4 (01:50:54):
You I'm letting my dogs out, right.

Speaker 9 (01:50:58):
He's absolutely right. She's gone, wow, like really gone.

Speaker 4 (01:51:15):
What the hell? Listen? You need to leave now. I'm
telling you a.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
Couple of things here because some of this is my
take from people in the comments too. The dogs are
legitimately flipping out in the beginning, so he would have,
if this is stage, she would have had to find
a way to make them flip out. They do randomly
stop flipping out, and then at the end that last
sounds sounds more of like a whiny bark of like scared.
It's not that weird how fast she disappeared. They made

(01:51:40):
it sound like she vanished. She probably just like there
was enough time where he's turned around opening the gate
that she's yeah, and there's like a vanishing point in
the dark air that she could easily cross back and
what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Interesting that she's standing right near at the end of
the vanishing point is which is the edge of the light,
so she would know that that's there. Part of me
makes me.

Speaker 3 (01:51:59):
I still wonder if this stage because he does say
some things that are a little expository. However, it makes
sense that he would be saying them to her. The
fact that he pans the camera to show his property
also doesn't necessarily mean anything, because he might be instinctively
like pointing, oh yeah, like he yeah yeah, like using
his hand to like this all of this.

Speaker 2 (01:52:18):
It is what is your tick.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
So there's a couple of different ways you could take
it too, because one comments is I feel she's not
by herself, which yes, yes, it's a lot of people
were saying that that there are some of these criminal
cons that people run. Where you start the first contact
is a very innocent it's contact. It's a feeler to

(01:52:51):
see how on defense you are right. But there's something
that feels and maybe it's just because we've been talking
about demonic stuff this whole time, but there's definitely something
it feels demonic about it, the way that she's like,
don't do that, don't do that. Coming closer. He's telling you, Elise,
she's coming closer. She keeps saying, I'm here to bless you.
I'm here to bless you. There's there's a spiritual level
to it where she seems to be waiting for him

(01:53:13):
to completely risend permission. Yeah. That that in a lot
of ways, him not releasing his dogs and like taking
as long as he did to release his dogs seem
like it gave her some steam for a minute.

Speaker 3 (01:53:27):
She felt she was getting some permission. Yeah, And he
mentioned that, like you showed up at three three am,
because I guess this is one of the other times
she's shown up, and she's like, that wasn't me, which
is a little odd.

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
Like two, she seems to not be like it wasn't me,
but I know who it was. Kind of like what
which is coven is is? Because it's like, if it's
you showing up to bless me like, yeah, I've been
showing up because I want to bless you.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
Like you're already being super freakin weird. You don't have
to pretend you weren't that weird person too, right, And
the fact that she's showing up at midnight and three am,
like these are not normal times to show up to
bless someone, right, So it feels like, yeah, there's also
this is maybe me putting too much stock on the
wrong thing for the wrong reason. It could be that,

(01:54:16):
like it makes sense that she would stay there so
that she can run if there's an issue, but she
doesn't seem afraid.

Speaker 1 (01:54:21):
Yeah, sounds really weird.

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
So it makes me wonder is there something supernaturally keeping
her at that edge or she cannot go further until
she has permission.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
Maybe she keeps like inching forward. Her shoes are very shiny,
which is interesting to me. That gives a little bit
of credence to the potentially staged thing, because they want
the creepiness of you seeing her shoes move. Maybe, but
I don't know if I were staging video that, I
don't think that you would think about it. And the
other thing is she when she says, don't do that,

(01:54:50):
don't do that. She sounds really dangerous. Like that's the
creepiest part of me of the don't do.

Speaker 3 (01:54:54):
That thing to me, because it sounds like a don't
do that because you'll get hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
Yeah, it sounds like a threat. Yeah, not like oh
please don't do that, like, yeah, I just want to
bless you. I don't want your dogs to hurt me, Like, no,
don't go and do something stupid now, right, Yeah, yeah,
that that part is the scariest part, I think to me,
It's also like this could be just like a bonker's lady,
but there does seem to be like it's the kind
of bonkers that comes from being possession right right, not

(01:55:22):
just yeah, yeah, she's not scared of the dogs and
that that's that's scary.

Speaker 3 (01:55:30):
And the dogs aren't rushing out to get her when
the gates open.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
Yeah, that's that's creepy. But that also is a little
bit of evidence of like is that because they know
her or is that because they heard their master talking
to her for long enough that they stopped clucking her
as an immediate I.

Speaker 3 (01:55:50):
Don't I don't think so, because he's not using a
friendly tone of voice and they were like they were barking,
very aggressively threatening at the beginning, so it wasn't like
they didn't recognize her initially as someone friendly. I would,
I would honestly assume that she's a witch and this
is demon possession and that she scared the dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:56:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's my take. Or if not possession,
then collusion.

Speaker 3 (01:56:17):
So now that we've covered all of our videos as
far as I'm aware, let's go and talk about the
next theory as to ghosts, and this one I do like.
I don't know if I put much stock in it,
but time slip slash, dimensional rift slash similar.

Speaker 1 (01:56:33):
I like this one. I like all of the ones
that are a little bit like what is the nature
of time?

Speaker 3 (01:56:38):
Actually, yes, so a lot of the idea is that
time can loop back in on itself and then the
walls that are kind of brushing up against each other
are thin. As someone I forget the meme, but someone
was like, imagine if it's like some little kid in
Victorian period is like jumping on his bed a bunch
having fun, right, and then some random person futuristic clothes

(01:57:00):
appears to him and is like, stop freaking doing that,
because it's like on the other side of things, It's like,
why is the random Victorian Chelton, I was jumping on
my bed where things just brush up against each other.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Right, And if it was if that was a normal type,
if it wasn't so often the traumatic, violent, sad, creepy
history stuff, and it was just like, yeah, sometimes there's
just this kid jumping on a bed, Like I don't
think people the collective consciousness would be so creeped out

(01:57:30):
by it. Yeah, And this is where I wonder if
there is some of this happening sure, and this could
maybe explaination of fu. There is one famous incident called
the Moberly Jordaane incident, and y'all are probably pretty familiar
with it. I don't know, if you do the kind
of researcher that I've done, you've run into it a bunch.
But there's basically there's two women, Charlotte and Moberly eleanor Jordayne.

(01:57:53):
This is the eighteen hundreds or maybe it was the
early nineteen hundreds, and it happened they wrote about it
in the early nineteen hundreds. So basic they are at
the Versailles Palace and they're walking around and they claimed
that they kind of walk into a separate time period
where they actually see a Mary antoinette and all of
these people dressed in that time period stuff. And they

(01:58:14):
decided they didn't talk about it initially between themselves, and
they decided to write down their accounts separately before talking
to each other. Oh okay, and.

Speaker 3 (01:58:22):
They stuck with the story their whole lives. They were
the kind of women who, like they would have it
would have been social suicide for them to do this.
They were relatively normal women.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
There are some talks.

Speaker 3 (01:58:31):
I think that there is some question did their stories
kind of change and get a little bit more dramatic,
But there is an extent to which when you are
unpacking something that's happened, you do remember more details as
time passes.

Speaker 1 (01:58:40):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:58:41):
Exactly what to make of it, except that it is
it is true that there was no re enactment happening
at the palace when they had this experience. Sure, so
it's been classified as like a time slip of did
they for a moment end up back in time and
then they ended up coming back. So there's there's a
lot of stuff like that where it's you know, there's
like a separate phenomenon, but it could intersect in a

(01:59:02):
way that also could explain some ghosts, and they were.

Speaker 1 (01:59:06):
In the correct location for that to happen, like they
were they were in Marie Antoinette's palace.

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
Yeah, they were at the helper per sekah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:15):
So I mean that's what it's looking to.

Speaker 4 (01:59:16):
More.

Speaker 1 (01:59:17):
That would be if I were to talk about the
incident more, I would want to do an episode on
time slips, which I would like to That would be,
But that's there is one book. There's one book where
someone did like a scientific breakdown of timeslip stuff and
a lot of these stories, and it's like six hundred
dollars per copy. And so I tried to find a
pdf online and the only PDF version you can find online,
I kid you not is a Russian paraphrase translated by

(01:59:41):
AI back into English.

Speaker 3 (01:59:42):
So oddly specific. Yeah, I might be getting some of
the details wrong. It might be in English.

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
It might be a Russian translation paraphrase and translated back
in English bay or something like that where it's like
I could read it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:52):
I don't know if it's going to be beneficial.

Speaker 1 (01:59:54):
I have it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:55):
Also, that's so specific, and there's no PDFs of it.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
Just normally. It makes me wonder if like this thing
is like that's actually the whole thing. If you were
to buy the book, you would also say it was that,
and that's the conceit of it. I don't know, it
doesn't make sense, but anyway, that's not the point of
this episode, So shut up. Listah, go ahead, Sorry, No,
you're good. I you should, Yeah, you should do an

(02:00:18):
episode on time slips because I would also wonder if
the if a place in which a lot of violence
has happened, violence has been done to the fabric of time.

Speaker 2 (02:00:30):
Hey, that's a good question.

Speaker 3 (02:00:31):
Yeah, And there's enough to do a whole episode that's
going to be further out because it would take a
lot of research, which I'm happy to do. I kind
of wish like I did so many listening to I
listened to so many podcasts back in the day, so
I remember learning about some of these things that I
never took notes, and I'm like, dang it, past the list,
you should have taken notes.

Speaker 1 (02:00:49):
It would have come in handy. So I don't know
if I'll find the same sources, but yeah, no, I'm
happy to do that. My next theory, it's not mine personally,
but it's been mentioned that one of my favorite explanations
favorite not because I think it's the most true, but
just it the most like silly, is that in old
houses they often have poorer insulation on the wiring. Thus

(02:01:13):
it occupants are exposed to hire EMF from the wiring.
EMF causes visual and auditory hallucinations, also like a feeling
of mala is, like something is wrong, like you're being watched.
So then you go in with EMF detectors predisposed to
think that you're reading the energy of the supernatural. But
it's just EMF from the house. I could buy this

(02:01:34):
as far as like even the little house we John
and I rented in that like sick place, I would
wonder if like it was just built really badly, of
like this little little house built really sloppily. So I
don't think it was old, but it could have.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
Although and this this does tie in, I promise, well,
I don't know why I said it that way. The
most activity I felt was pretty far away from that house,
out into the book, where it felt like there was
like this dizzying sensation. I got vertigo, like I was
standing at the top of a I don't have the
fear pipes to be clear, but I felt like what
you would probably have from the fear pipes, like a sickening,

(02:02:10):
dizzying motion sickness.

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
Yes, I thought that all the time there.

Speaker 3 (02:02:14):
Yeah, and coming out of the woods because I went
in with you guys further than I have been before
because I couldn't take much of it, and I had
to go back and I had to sit on a
log in the yard and just like I felt like
I was spinning.

Speaker 1 (02:02:25):
So my my my thought would be.

Speaker 3 (02:02:26):
Connected is if it is an EMF cause thing, is
there something out there like an electrical box?

Speaker 2 (02:02:32):
I don't know why would be it was pretty far
into the woods.

Speaker 3 (02:02:34):
Or this is my connection, is there are there some
natural latent sources of electricity ignoring static electricity because I
know that's you know, but this leads you back into
the circle of well, maybe the natural latent source of
electricity is spirits who are producing electricity for themselves.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
So then you go full selectal to square.

Speaker 3 (02:02:51):
Yeah, but I do I do think this is I
think this is like the missing four one one thing
where a lot of things are happening and when you
put them all under the same umbrella, you get a
lot of confusion because they're all kind of different, and
what's happening is there's a bunch of different things with
a bunch of different explanations. So you may find a

(02:03:13):
decent portion of hauntings and old houses are because of
this emf thing. However, that would not explain everything, because
there's stuff that has been like you couldn't film an emflucination, right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:27):
I do wonder if if we could, if we fully
understood the nature of time, and we fully understood the
nature of like sound and electricity in the way that
like can like the stone tape theory, if we fully
understood all of that, if it would answer a lot
of these quests.

Speaker 3 (02:03:43):
Yes, I think there's maybe like twenty different things happening
with twenty different explanations, and they all just kind of
have some intersection of where they look like you know
enough alike to be explained as demons or goes through it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:56):
And I would probably argue that they may all be
very connected to human trauma, human bloodshed and violence, and
that that does feel like it's the lynch pin.

Speaker 3 (02:04:07):
Yeah, Like, for instance, the life of a soul from
blood that's been spilled, does it give off emf sure
you had a thought you said it was connected to No, no,
you flushed as the thought, Okay, never mind. And then
my last theory that I listened at. There are others,
but I just grabbed the ones that to me seemed
most compelling that I ran across, or that I have

(02:04:30):
been thinking about all this time. So the next one
is elementals or the last one is elementals. So I
don't necessarily have a lot to say about the theory.
It's more of a floor opening for organic discussion. However,
I do think it might be worth mentioning there are
different It seems potentially like there are different angels responsible
for different things, and when you encounter them, they are

(02:04:52):
scary and onspiring, but not necessarily because they're going to
torment you. Like every person who runs into an angel
in the Bible seems or almost everyone, I don't know
if it's everyone. It seems to be like I'm gonna
fall down to worship now, I'm going to fall as
if dead and I could cheehorn into this the discussion
of we just we assume that everything is just angels

(02:05:14):
and humans, But what if God created all sorts of
other kinds of life to inhabit all the other dimensions
with stories so vastly different from ours that we barely
know anything about it because it's just not really our
business and it's not something we're going to understand because
we're not equipped for it. But it is going on
and it might intersect with us. So, having loved all
this stuff in front of you, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (02:05:35):
I have wondered if some, if not some, yes, of
things that we are kind of chalking up to the
demonic is not necessarily something that is in a being
that is in rebellion to God that like, I don't
know what level of playing tricks on humans, scaring humans

(02:06:00):
God would allow, if any before that being would necessarily
be in violation, right, Yeah, So I have wondered if
there are just some beings that are like they don't
care if they don't love humans, they don't hate humans,
they don't wish us harm. But perhaps when they are children,
like when they are in their childhood they attached to

(02:06:25):
a young human and create chaos, they do the little
gremlin gnome thing, and then they grow up and they're like, Okay,
I'm done messing with humans. Yeah. I don't know. I
don't think that there's a there's not a lot of
room for the in the Bible for it, I don't think.

(02:06:47):
I don't think that there is, but there there is
a significant amount of mythology that would suggest that maybe Naiads, dryads,
river gods for lack of some of the creatures that C. S.
Lewis did not see as being evil, that he included
as just regular inhabitants of Narnia that were part of

(02:07:08):
the mythologies that he worked off of. I don't know.
I like to think that CS Lewis had the discernment
to not take demonic beings from mythologies and put them
into his stories. But I can also see like he
wanted to redeem them because they're kind of a beautiful idea.

Speaker 3 (02:07:25):
Yeah, of like this is what they would have been,
updated invulve right. One that gets lumped in with this
that like upsets me because it's so stupid, like if
it's real, Oh my gosh, I hate it so much.
As leprechauns most ridiculous thing ever. Please do not insult
my intelligence. But they're actually when it comes to leprechauns,
they are creepier and dirtier and more evil than you
would realize, like they'll just show up in people's houses

(02:07:47):
and stare at them. But there is one story that
I heard on this episode where this guy's a cop.

Speaker 1 (02:07:52):
I'm assuming he lives in Ireland. He's driving and he
hits this like small, dirty, red headed man with his
police car and he gets out see if he's okay,
and the guy's like and he like runs off like
this frickin leprecaun dude, And he left a dend in
the bumper of the car or the fender or whatever
the front part of the car. And the cop was like,
he never wanted to tell the story to people, and

(02:08:14):
he would have just pretended it didn't happen if there
was an a dent, and it was like for it
to happen to someone like that who is not prone
to making something something up and you know, is not
going to say, you know, I saw this thing unless
they're sure that they saw, Like what, what the frick
is that? Excuse me? Are there animals that have escaped

(02:08:37):
classification because they look look like so we have net
we we haven't admitted that they are real mm hmm
because they look too humanoid. So we've whenever we've actually
run up against them. We either think that they are
something like spiritually whatever, like leprechauns, or we think that

(02:08:58):
they are humans, but we don't think, oh, this is
just another monkey or looks.

Speaker 2 (02:09:04):
Too humanoid, could be feral humans. Yeah, let's talking about
that before.

Speaker 3 (02:09:10):
I don't know, like the descriptions of leprechauns are too
human for me to think it would be an animal
without being racist against the redheaded people because like the
law involves like they're short red head people short redheaded.

Speaker 1 (02:09:24):
Oh ye, no, they're not people.

Speaker 2 (02:09:27):
I'm kidding.

Speaker 3 (02:09:28):
Mostly there's enough lare a but like them talking about
but they seem to have like magical abilities where they'll
show up in like a super high rock and then
disappear off.

Speaker 1 (02:09:37):
I don't know. I don't I don't ever want to.

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
Research them because I just they discussed my sense of
order in.

Speaker 1 (02:09:43):
The world, which makes me think that they're actually demonic.
Yeah yeah. And also they're just not aesthetic and there
may be creatures that are fallen that do fall after
the devil, but like don't actually care what humans enough
to mess with us all that much.

Speaker 2 (02:10:01):
Like genuine dwarfs do exist and they are evil, all.

Speaker 1 (02:10:04):
Right, right, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:10:07):
It's one of those things where, like the human the
Bible is very much about God's faithfulness to humans and
it doesn't preclude there being other things, and humans do
have the tendency to be like the world is all
about me and I'm the center of the world. But
at the same time kind of hard not to believe
that one. That's kind of how God wrote the story exactly.
And it does raise the question of if there are

(02:10:30):
say there's leprechauns and there are a separate kind of
being than humans, but they are fallen, is there a
redemption story for them? Or is are humans the only
one who get their redemptions. I know one person you
know him too, and I'm not gonna name drop who
believes that there are aliens and that Jesus went to
all the different planets of all the aliens and died
on all of them. And I think that is an
affront to salvation, that is an affront to who God is,

(02:10:54):
his victory over death.

Speaker 1 (02:10:56):
You could make an argument, I'm not you could make
an argument then in the same way that God, God
started off with one person, Abraham, and then he expanded
out to all Jews, and then he expanded out to
all humans in the world, and then is there a
further expansion maybe like if you're taking the one salvation
and putting it like that's less of an affront in

(02:11:17):
my mind. It also it could go and preach the
Gospel to all creatures. So humans are made in the
image of God and angels aren't. So there's something about
humanity that is created as an image bearer, and that
is why I think that's what the salvation story centers around.

(02:11:41):
Animals are not made in the image of God, and
Jesus didn't die for animals, So in the same way,
it could be that, like there are these other things,
but they're in the classification of animal or angel and
they're not made in the image of God, whatever those
implications are, and so there isn't a salvation story for
them because they don't have the same soul, spirit body.

Speaker 3 (02:11:58):
They might just like animals have spirit and body, which
is why they're so frickin'.

Speaker 1 (02:12:05):
Or there could be a different sort of fall and
redemption for everything, like Cislos did this with the Space Trilogy,
where on the Mars planet there's a different sort of
fall it's a much more one dimensional sort of fall,
and there's a different sort of redemption, much more one dimensional.
And then on the Venus planet Parilandra, there's a much

(02:12:26):
thicker world. And I won't give spoilers, but the idea
is the question the whole book long is are they
going to fall?

Speaker 15 (02:12:34):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:12:34):
And it is said that like if they fell, it
would be even a like more extreme dimension and whatever
God would have to do about it would have to
be so much bigger, a greater fall and a greater salvation. Yeah.

(02:12:54):
I don't, I don't. I don't know what to do
with that. I think Cslo's ideas were like fun to
think about, But if I believed anything, it would be
that the story is just going to continue expanding out
that God's like, Okay, here's what I did with humans,
and I'm going to use what I did with humans

(02:13:15):
to do something bigger in the same way that he
was like, here's what I did a Jews, and here's
how I'm going to make that bigger. Here's another thought.
So we were put on the earth to steward it
and bring everything into submission. That implication of bring everything
into submission means that doesn't naturally submit to us. So
if there is something let's say laprachaus, because I brought

(02:13:36):
them up and I'm just chewing on that, if those
are like some sort of animal type creature in terms
of not calling short redd ed people journals, but laprins, Yeah,
that this type of creature is not human. It is
you know, spirit and body like an animal, and so
it's not capable of sin in the same way, and

(02:13:57):
it in some respects fall short of the glory of
humans as opposed to being guilty of because Shin entered
the world through Adam's defiance of God. Defiance of man
is different. I don't know, I'm just spoballing here. No,
the idea that like, there are forces that are not
necessarily in rebellion against God, but they are in rebellion

(02:14:17):
against humans, and so there may be a level of
like once the dentic area, like the identic thing is restored,
that we will go back to Oh, okay, we were
actually supposed to be exerting authority and these things will
be curbed. Yeah, bringing all this under and I will

(02:14:38):
have leper conservants. It's okay because they're not black wild.
I don't know's it's an interesting that I've never once
considered it in that direction, so I have to. But
it does.

Speaker 2 (02:14:51):
It does fit with the old like lion lying down
with lamb.

Speaker 3 (02:14:53):
Like lions don't cease to exist as a species after
the restoration just because like they weren't saved. Of course,
it's not the same lions. There will be new generations
of lions born right there. Ones a lot today probably
won't be eaten.

Speaker 1 (02:15:08):
And I do wonder if there's something like wrong with
this line of thinking. I don't maybe I just feel
like kind of full up with all the weirdness of
the whole conversation and a weird conversation, but I do
there's something gross about the Leprechaun piece, Like you have
a revulsion to it and I have a revulsion to it,
So maybe we should leave it alone for now.

Speaker 3 (02:15:24):
Yeah, it's I might end up happy to make an
episode in them. It is what it is, okay, But
so that's my my conversation. I do, like I've said before,
I've I've probably teased it Nazi, and I do still
want to do an episode, and knowing me, it's probably
gonna be two part, I hope, not of what the
Bible says about angels slash demons, slash the spirit world

(02:15:46):
slash the ancient and modern takes on exorcism like exorcism history.
I don't know if that will come together into a
long episode or not really at this point, because I
thought this was going to be a shorter episode, and
it's two episodes thinking, so I don't know if there's
any hope of getting it done before the break.

Speaker 2 (02:16:03):
If I get it done written like this week.

Speaker 3 (02:16:06):
Yeah, this week being last week sequentially for you guys,
and then we pre record on like the coming Friday,
like a seventh or whatever it.

Speaker 2 (02:16:13):
Is, that seventh, ninth, tenth.

Speaker 1 (02:16:16):
We're gonna know very soon whether John's gonna have to
leave sooner rather than later. So yeah, I also realized
I have inadvertently This was not planned on my part,
but I'm inadvertently using Spooky Month to talk about ghosts
and stuff. And it was gonna like it looks like
I put a lot of thought into it, and I
was just like, I'm gonna tease the stot out and
then I keep getting more material. This was all supposed
to be one episode, including the Soul Sleep one. I'm
very good at what I do. This was this was

(02:16:37):
one episode that turned into three. So I'm really glad
I cut you off.

Speaker 3 (02:16:41):
Yeah, this is how I approach Yeah, honestly, like, let
me squeeze in four more hours of content.

Speaker 2 (02:16:46):
Sorry, that's we're not I can't remember that.

Speaker 3 (02:16:49):
I was gonna reference the podcast that does do that,
and I couldn't remember the name.

Speaker 2 (02:16:53):
So it falls apart. But I was gonna say so.

Speaker 3 (02:16:57):
I can't guarantee if that will come before the break,
cause I don't know if I could even finish it
this week or if that be amenable to that.

Speaker 1 (02:17:03):
We're gonna burn each bridges. We're crossing it. I've accidentally
given you October theme spookiness go me. Yeah, I love
you guys. I hope I haven't traumatized you too much.
I do think we should close up, for I feel
that you prey, but I feel like I have one
more thought and I'm trying to, like, I do apologize
if this has triggered anyone, Like, the last thing I
want is for us to sit and dwell on to
an unhealthy degree what was happening. I think it's important

(02:17:25):
to show curiosity about the world within the scope of
what does God say and Honestly, at the end of
the day, it really doesn't matter what these things are,
and it doesn't matter that we don't have the full story,
because we do have. If we're in christ in covered
in the blood of Jesus, we do have authority over
these things.

Speaker 3 (02:17:38):
They do not have permission to dwell us. I take
it when I approached, it's sort of like a fascination
that I would have with like hyaenas or lions, like
these dangerous things that I just want to understand because
like that's how my mind works. So like when we
had to watch Jazz as a kid and I was eight,
and I was traumatized. I'd then learned everything about sharks
and then I was like, Okay, I'm good, I've have
my fun.

Speaker 1 (02:17:57):
I now the andy. I get it. So anyway, happy
if you want to go ahead and pray, Okay, good Jylah,
thank you so much for today. Thank you that we
were able to get two shows out of this. Thank
you for Liz and all the words that she did
on this. I pray that you would just guide the
thinking of everyone who's listening to this and us as
we go forward. I pray that you would help us
to rest easy in the knowledge that you were in control,

(02:18:19):
and that these things are all ultimately super weak compared
to you, and they can't hurt us, and that you
are in control, and that you have given us the
tools to combat these things. If and when we are
put in these positions, that you allow us to be
in these positions, and I pray that you would just
give us more wisdom and insight and comfort surrounding these things,

(02:18:41):
and pray we focus on your name and the name
of Jesus. Amen. Amen. All right, good night everybody, Thank
you for being here.

Speaker 18 (02:18:49):
Bye Boo

Speaker 4 (02:19:19):
Di

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