Episode #9 "Always Creating Value™ Podcast for Successful Businesses" guest: Lynn Kitchen

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:15):
Good morning, everybody. This is Mark Fowler.
And this is always the alwayscreating value podcast that we
started sometime back inSeptember, I forget those we
meet every second Wednesday ofthe month. So whatever that was,
was, it was an excitingexperience. And now we're on our
knife interview. And it's evenmore exciting than it's getting.

(00:39):
We actually know what we'redoing. We're having a good time,
too. So I'm to remind people,business reengineering
specialist, CPA, I work withcompanies in transition, whether
it's bankruptcy, crisismanagement, growth, merger and
acquisition, senior managementissues with companies. Along the

(01:02):
way, one of the things that hasbeen an inherent value
proposition for us, and beingable to help these companies go
from where they are to wherethey need to be, is tapping into
their ability to create value ona consistent basis, not one time
shots, not when we need it, notwhen when we're just in trouble,
but on a consistent basis. Andin the work that we've done,

(01:27):
sometimes we find companies whoare doing a great job with that.
And what we have to do isenhance that ticket to the next
level, but we don't strugglewith, you know, having to define
what always creating value hasbeen. And then there's other
situations where people don'teven know they're being
creative. And we need to tapinto that and help them become

(01:47):
much more comfortable with thefact that, you know, just
because they don't knowsomething, that doesn't mean
they don't have something tooffer, they can't offer that on
a consistent on a consistentbasis. And one of the reasons
we're here today to talk to Lynnkitchen is that she like all the
other people that we're going tohave in the future are people

(02:08):
that we've had before,understand the value of being
able to consistently look atthings and say, What can we do
better? What do I have to learn?
What kind of things can we turnfrom bad to good, and be
thinking about doing the rightthing. And in many cases,
stepping up to be more moreethical and more truthful, you

(02:28):
know, more on the same page withthe people we work with. And
more on the same page with thepeople that we serve. On the
president and founder of stoneManagement Corporation in the
business, business reengineeringpart of part of my practices.
And then I'm the co founder andauthor and CEO of revolutionary

(02:48):
conversations, which Behind meis our book, multi multi award
winning book about conversationand how it can be much more
effective and much more engagingfor for all of us today, and I
hope you enjoy us our eventtoday. Lynn kitchen. I've known

(03:10):
legend when for a number ofyears for the United Nations
Association, for her herfriendship with my co author,
Barbara. And she's always amazedme with the things that she
does. Every time we talk, everytime we meet, she's got a new, a

(03:30):
new card on the table. And it'sit's a robust card. It's
something that all of us areinterested in. She's helped me a
bit with. And our partner, Jaredhave helped me a bit with our
previous book as well as aforthcoming book. They're always
exciting to talk to. And one ofthe things that amazes me is how

(03:56):
Lynn has been able to just keepgoing and going and raising the
raising the octave that she hasone of the things that she has
to offer and I'm going to lether talk about those right now.
When kitchen.
Hi, Mark. Oh, I'm so excited tobe here. Why I love your topic.

(04:19):
I just love always add value,always create value. It kind of
reminds me of that old sayingalways be selling. But in this
case, it's always add valuealways be creating value. I'm
just so excited about thattopic. First of all, because I'm

(04:42):
a proponent of that. I study it.
I want to be the kind of personthat brings more value every
day. Almost like it's a way oflife mark. So I'm excited to be
here. Thank you for inviting me.
Oh, you're welcome. You'vealways created value for For me,
and you know, my team, Iremember and I put it in the

(05:06):
introduction to your, yourpodcast was that you showed up
at the revolution ofconversations power of peace
interview. And you were the onlyperson to do this having read
the book and having having ideasand having actually, not only
showed us your homework, butshowed you showed us the three
or four things you couldaccomplish with it. So you

(05:28):
created value from the momentyou showed up on
it? Well, it was a pleasure todo So Mark, and I, you know,
thank you for saying that,because I really love that book
as well. It is one of my go tobooks ever since I, you know,
bought it and have it in myhands and have it on my desk.
And it is something that Iactually use, and this is no

(05:51):
joke, I use it right before Iknow I'm going into a
potentially difficultconversation, or one that I'm
nervous about. And I use it withfamily members. And I have, you
know, if you want, I havesomething to add right here
right now on how I'm using itnewly to add value to my life.

(06:14):
Now. And I'm excited about thisis a brand new way of using it,
it may not be brand new to you,Mark, because since we've spoken
last, you've probably hadmillions of people using that
book in millions of differentways. And I know, I hope so.
Yes, I know, you've beenteaching it, you know, at UCLA

(06:35):
and places. But may I share whatthat is? Sure. All right. Um, I
love the book i The titleitself, is so inspiring
revolutionary conversation, Istarted to ask myself, Is there
a possible way that I could havea revolutionary conversation

(06:58):
with myself? And just thequestion I've never asked myself
before, what is a revolutionaryconversation with me. And you
often talk about how, when youare coming alongside a client,

(07:19):
to be on the same side of thedesk as the client, so that
you're looking at circumstancesin the same way as them and then
you stop together and you usethe tools together? And you ask,
you know, how can I help you?
And also, what risks can we taketo further an understanding of
the circumstances that you'represented with. And I'm actually

(07:41):
using the tools now to do that,with myself. And two people on
this side of the desk are mycurrent little self and my
future big self.
Oh, those are your current selfand your future self,
my future self. And I starteddoing that with things that are

(08:06):
bothering me. And asking myfuture self, who's already
solved the problem, and also,who represents perhaps a higher
power, who's in league with myfuture self. And together, we
were looking at circumstances.
And I've been having somebreakthroughs. And I just, I'm

(08:27):
excited all over again, with therevolutionary conversations book
and how you can how I am usingthe tools for my own self
growth, but more than that, itis adding value. It's adding
value to, to an acceleration ofmy of moving through blockages

(08:49):
moving through resistances thatperhaps are of my own making any
way. I love it.
Well, first of all, I I numberone, I want to thank you and in
several ways, you're right. Thatis something we I've been using

(09:12):
it for a long time. And, but wenever brought it out. We never
brought it out because it itbumped into it bumped into
people's. A lot of people don'tknow how to do that. And you
know, when I was reading our prepre interview meeting, I was

(09:34):
actually thinking about the factthat you were doing some of that
already. I didn't it was justvague thoughts. We were talking
about, like you were talkingabout how your major decision to
be in the investment firm andyou were thinking about, you
know, you stopped yourself tosay, Well, wait a minute, you
know, how do I make thisdecision? What kind of help do I

(09:55):
need to understand that and you,you discover that by what do I
want We were talking about, youknow, you were you were doing.
No wonder you tapped into thisso well, you were already doing
some of the some of it?
Well, yeah, and I think thatthat's why this topic is so easy
to tap into also, because we areall interested in growth, you

(10:18):
know, even, it's the way of theworld, it's the, it's the way of
nature, its value is created, byexpansion. And by increasing by
moving into the best people thatwe can be, you know, and this,
the book that you have is one ofthe tools that really is makes a
lot of sense, it's easy to use,and I just love it.

(10:41):
Well, thank you. Well, you know,we have kept that, you know, the
internal, I mean, we do talkabout it, but, you know,
stopping and thinking andwhatever, but we don't talk
about doing the conversation,possibly, because it has a
prayer like aspect to it. Wejust, we knew we were bringing

(11:04):
out something new, and I didn'twant it to be something so new
that people would, I didn't wantto give people the opportunity
to say no, you know, that'sgetting into other territory.
I'm just saying the, there, theapplication is there. And, you
know, it's, I am, I'm very awareof how growth really is hand in

(11:32):
hand with spiritual expansion.
Because every one of us, youknow, is is a part and we are
we're doing this together,whether you're a part of an
organization, that corporation,we are individuals who are co
creating, you know, coordinatedmovement, in in a same
direction, hopefully, and addingvalue to, you know, everything

(11:55):
that we choose to do in life.
And a lot of that is meaningful.
And there is you cannot divorce,the, you know, the the whole of
us the spirituality, the wealthbuilding, you know, the
relationship building health,wealth, every part of it is

(12:18):
value, adding, it's adding valueto who we're becoming, and who
we become,including yourself. And, you
know, if we look at our we lookat our world today, we're not,
we're not stopping to, toconsider and, and have those
little conversations withinourselves to say, you know, I

(12:41):
know, first of all, you know, amI doing the right thing? You
know, why am I here? What, youknow, I think one of the things
that people don't do today, andthat is to pay attention to what
they don't know, they don't takethe time, they don't say, let me
understand what I don'tunderstand. And if you're not
doing that, you know, in yourhead, just to just to keep

(13:05):
yourself straight. When you godown a rabbit hole, you tend to
go off track with what you'redoing. And it sounds like, you
know, again, reading the preinterview, this, this quality of
you was always there. Andrevolution conversation, you

(13:27):
were able to tap into it soquickly, because you're already
doing a great deal of selfreflection, you talked about the
reflection of being able toreflect on something and pay
attention to the kinds of thingsthat were important to you, like
you've talked about with yourwealth management clients, you
needed to be conservative, butwith a reasonable amount of

(13:48):
risk. But you also talked aboutthe different kinds of client
you might have and the differentthings that you had to reflect
on about them. And you had to beintuitive about this, touching
yourself a bit in order torelate to somebody else in
there, I think. And maybe I'mjust talking off off the cuff,

(14:09):
but I just kept reading and Ikept saying you are constantly
reflecting on what you're doing.
And actually now more than ever,Mark and that's why I'm so
appreciate you and and you'rebuilding a podcast around this
topic. It's so refreshing, andthat you're collecting points of

(14:33):
views from all of theprofessionals and I am so
honored to be here today, justbecause of the value that you're
bringing to us by just talkingabout how can we, how can we be
in that reflective space? Sothat the value that we do bring
is conscious. So it isreflective. It's conscious and

(14:59):
it's meaningful, and then itlands on doing the right thing
and doing better, and doing moreof the right thing and more
better. And so that's that'scalled, you know, creating
future values. And youmentioned, the, my being in the

(15:19):
investment advisory world. Forthose who don't know, Mark's
referring to the fact that I, myfirst career was in about 35
years in the investment advisoryworld. And I was just reflecting
back today on that experience,working with clients who, you

(15:40):
know, it's your holding hands onwealth creation, it is what you
are doing with them, to helpthem not only understand what it
takes to create wealth, but alsoinvestment advisor really takes
the reins and creates thoseportfolios for you, with the
idea that that is a, you know, atwo way street and, and

(16:03):
communication. But I wasreflecting today on all of the
use of the word value,profession, you know, you have
economic value added, we used toactually teach what is e va
economic value added. Andbecause I was a teacher, as well
as an investment advisor, andspent, I think, 15 years as

(16:25):
teaching, portfolio managementin the Pacific School of
Finance, and economic valueadded was one of the concepts
that we taught, not an easyconcept, to understand or to
teach, but a very, veryimportant concept. And then we
would teach well, what is value?
And what is present value? Andwhat is future value? And how do

(16:48):
you make decisions based uponvaluation? You know, in it is
really kind of interesting howwe, today make decisions all day
long, how many decisions do youmake all day long, based upon
our perception of value? Youknow, and and I want to have a
little conversation today abouthow value is changing how our,

(17:12):
our, you know, intrinsicunderstanding of the value in
this world is changing, I mean,not just the dollar in terms of
its value and what it can buynow, and of course, everyone
knows we're in an inflationarymode, you know, which shrinks
the value of the dollar and thepurchasing value. But, you know,

(17:37):
it's, it pulls into question,what, what value do we need to
create? How much more value dowe need to create to accomplish
the goals that we want? But inaddition to that, I think it
brings into question, what isthe future value that we want to
create as, as, as a family, asan individual, as a family, as a

(18:04):
city, as a state as a countryfor, you know, for God's sakes,
as an as an, you know, as aworld? What, what are what are
our values and I know, Mark, youdo a lot of teaching around, you
know, this concept and I'm, Iwas just I had a moment to

(18:26):
reflect how we Bandy about theword value without really
understanding value.
Well, let me let me stop for asecond. One of the things that
impressed me in our in our preinterview was your consciousness

(18:48):
about the different stages ofyour clients? World? Are you
married or you're newly married?
Do you want children? Do youhave adult parents that are
somewhere along the line, you'regoing to have to, you're going
to have to address their needs,their needs, as well. And as

(19:10):
people get older, and they startthinking about retirement, the
kinds of different things thatthat need to kick in. And then
each stage, you are not onlyreflecting on but putting on the
table for other people'sdiscussion, you know, as your,
your customer, your, your, yourclient, you're talking about how

(19:30):
they participate in that value.
And the reason I reflecting backon this, they use every, we've
repeated that term quite a bit.
But to reflect back on that, asit relates to the things you're
talking about the future is thatI think in the future, where we
are today is we don't thinkabout what's on the other side
of the table as much as we used.

(19:53):
And, you know, I think you're agood example and you bring you
bring an awful lot of wealth. Tothat ability for us to be able
to not just come to the tablewith my agenda, and this is the
way I want to do what I want todo it by, oh, hopefully I didn't
I got rid of somethingaccidentally. And so I want to

(20:18):
go back to that. So could you dothat a little bit? And then we
can go?
Yeah, you know, it's, I actuallyretired from my first career,
it's been 10 years ago now, butI loved noticing and studying
what it what the values aredifferent, it's a, it's a

(20:40):
lifecycle of wealth, it's thelifecycle of means it's a
lifecycle of in, in wealthcreation over a life time, it
just, as you mentioned, youknow, people who are clients who
are in the early stage ofgetting a job and creating a
family, their needs aredifferent, and their values are

(21:02):
different. And therefore,creating wealth has a different
understanding, and teachingthere in that particular case,
and different from the 45 yearold couple, or a 50 year old
couple, who are, you know, nowmaking shifts and changes
completely different from peoplewho then you know, their

(21:24):
children are grown, emptynesters, after they had put them
through college, you know,perhaps utilized a lot of the
assets that they had built uptill now well, how did they
replace all those assets? Andnow how do they prepare for
retirement and the values thatare important to them at that
stage completely different? Onceagain? And how do you connect

(21:47):
with someone whose values arechanging all the time? Now,
those that, that takes a lot ofcompassionate understanding, and
compassionate capitalism, Ibelieve, is there's room for
compassionate capitalism basedon our understanding of what's

(22:12):
important to, for to and forothers, and moving them people
through to a later lifeexperience in which their needs
change when change once again,they're no longer having an
income, but they're nowrequiring to draw upon their
assets to live, you know, inretirement, completely different

(22:35):
and what is the the arc of one'slife? And how then do you create
wealth to leave to another,another generation beyond you,
and maybe their generation ofgenerations and your
grandchildren and so forth. Soit's a whole dynamic, wonderful
way of creating synergy withinsomeone's understanding of your

(23:01):
wealth isn't just money, it'snot just your portfolio, it is
how you create the, you know,the relationships along the way
what, you know, what monetarystrengths can you bring to the

(23:21):
table, and I always took theunderstanding that was my job to
be extremely sensitive, but morethan that, there's a whole
amount of emotions underneaththose values that come to play
in wealth management, you know,the ups and downs market.

(23:45):
So, how do you ascertain, youknow, you know, people you know,
I was in public accounting for10 years, so I had clients for
10 years, a lot of the work I dotoday is not you know, not
working for clients for a long,long, long time where you come
in fix things and you know,change them and move forward.
But when you when you work withpeople for a long period of

(24:06):
time, even as they're changing,sometimes you don't even see it
sometimes you know, that you'rein my case it was year to year
and I you know, with you itmight well have been a quarterly
amount or whatever. So how doyou go about tapping into that?
Those changes now obviously, weas we get older, we get older,

(24:28):
so we we can see some of thathow do you tap into their value
proposition is changing how theysee value, how do you tap into
that perceptional perceptualdynamic?
Well, I thank you for it's agreat question. And I can only
look back and in with thebenefit of hindsight and say I

(24:49):
think I did a pretty good job. Idid the best job I could. And
that I had a my own valuessystem of I'm having regular
conversations with the clients.
So that I was the one reachingout, I didn't wait for them to
call me when they were upsetwhen they opened the, you know,

(25:09):
the monthly statement and sawthat there was a decline in the
market, therefore, there was adecline in the market value, I
anticipated the possibility ofwhat what emotional impact was
going to happen when they didopen that monthly statement, of
course, back then we hadeverything come in the mail, we
didn't have the instantaneousthings of the computers that

(25:32):
investment managers have today.
But I did really feel thatconversations, just like in your
book, was a very, very largepart of reaching out to connect
with what is going on? And whatchanges. Can you share with me

(25:55):
that that you're going through,and the other part is education.
Most people I find are afraid toadmit that they don't know what
they don't know, in the field ofwealth creation and money
management, and even incounting, there's so much
misinformation and so much fear.
And and should I do this? Andshould I do that and looking at

(26:18):
other people who have, you know,made an overnight fortune or
something just because theyhaven't done make a decision to
buy something right before itwent up. Other people may have
sold it five minutes before andthey lost everything. So there's
this constant, roiling andbroiling of emotions that happen
alongside an education is reallyimportant. So that's why I feel

(26:43):
like I was a good teacher aswell, as a good educator. That
doesn't mean that I ran acompany that was extremely
large, either, we really were ata smaller boutique company. And
we liked it that way. Because itgave us an opportunity to really
serve and be of service in theway that we wanted to. And and

(27:07):
that I feel proud of.
I would, if I had been a client,I know that I would have been
very happy because youobviously, number one are
proactive, you know, you talkedabout, you know, getting getting
there before the mail getsthere. And you're right, a lot

(27:30):
of things have changed. And alot of people because of the
internet. I mean, we saw it inour consulting practice,
reengineering practice, youknow, people know more about,
they think they know more aboutraising money for their business
than than we do have done it fordecades. Because they saw it on
the internet, you know, there'sbeen so much of that. And

(27:52):
that's, that's beginning to andfrom my case has began to
diminish a bit, because peopleare beginning to realize that
they can't keep up, you know,and
that overwhelming, it's trulyoverwhelming.
You mean, you have people nowthat do their own brokerage, you
know, they become their ownbrokers, they are they, you

(28:14):
know, they spend their day, theyquit their job, and all they do
isbuy, do it yourself trend is its
enormous. It's self empowering,of course. And it you know, the
more you know, the more there isthat you are aware that you
don't know. It, I mean, hugegaps of knowledge are dangerous.

(28:36):
And we don't we only had asprofessionals to look at
2007 2008 at the amount of riskthat was inherent in the current
economy that none of us reallyunderstood or are really
admitted. And certainly werecaught on too late. Making

(28:58):
changes in clients portfolios,because, you know, it, it was a
dump. And those kinds ofexperiences are shocking. Of
course, I you know, have gonethrough that before as on in the
crash of 1987. When you just wedid not anticipate a sharp

(29:20):
increase in the monetaryinterest rates that was Volker.
It was it was an It was a shock.
It was out of the blue and themarkets were shocked. And so
when when you have an economicshock that people don't see
coming, how do you move throughthose? How do you navigate as an

(29:45):
investment advisor as aprofessional in your in your
case, Mark? And those kinds ofthings are interesting because
it's kind of like I look upon itas a divorce. We have We divorce
or you know, things that canhappen to Get to us on a
personal level, it's a shockshocks happen. Whether it's an

(30:06):
economic shock, a personalshock, a spiritual shock, things
happen in our lives that we, youknow, cards are dealt that, you
know, may or may not have beenany of our doing or any of our
fault. But the arrogance withwhich most people think that
they can, you know, trade themarkets, it's, it's kind of

(30:31):
interesting to me now more thanever. It's always been part of
the lexicon of, you know,winning, one person wins great.
And that creates eyeballs andsells newspapers out. And, and
what I always took the practiceof not listening to a lot of the

(30:54):
hype and going in the otherdirection, very much of a
contrarian myself so that Icould stay calm, centered,
centered, and look for the realfacts. And even then that was

(31:14):
very difficult to discern, withthe level of knowledge, even
after 30 years, you just think,Okay, well, even that amount of
knowledge, in certaincircumstances don't even doesn't
even serve me. Because, youknow, the tidal wave has that
tsunami, just took everythingout with it, and what can you

(31:37):
do? What can you do, so there'san impact on
what you can, what you canimpact and what you can't and
then a lot of the time off forme, is helping people
recover. We're, I would like to,before we talk about your books
work and the mentoring work thatyou're doing, I would like to go

(31:59):
back to the what you weretalking about your future self,
and you were talking about thethe need to being focused on
being more value creation in thefuture in the present. And I
asked you to go back and look atwhat you've done. So, you know,
for five minutes, let's let's,let's talk a little bit about

(32:22):
what we just talked about, andhow it reflects to what you
believe needs to happen in thefuture.
Hmm, what a great question. The,what I think needs to happen in
the future for each one of us isto understand that we have a, we

(32:43):
have a present self, and afuture self. That that that that
is just like every corporationhas a present value, and a
future value. And what I used todo in, in evaluating companies
to make a decision, whether itwas a buy or a sell in any

(33:05):
particular moment, that's adecision. It was to evaluate the
difference between your presentthe present value of that
corporation in that time, andits inherent future value. And
if that inherent future valuelooked like pretty promising, it
was a by all right, I think wecan do the same analogy as

(33:27):
individuals now. So the presentvalue of my circumstantial is my
life and all that my, the allthat I've ever done, ever been
all of the accumulation ofknowledge and experience, which
has great value, right? Youwould agree?

(33:49):
We don't we don't have intuitiveenough, that's
for sure. Right? And so righthere right now in the present
value of who we are and what webring to the table. Let's, let's
learn to value it all that morein a in an appreciation sense,

(34:12):
let's let's bring some gratitudeto ourselves on how well we've
done rather than looking only towhat's missing. That's the
difference that I would like tosee in myself first. And maybe
someone out there needs to hearthat today. But in myself, I'm

(34:32):
endeavoring on a daily basis tobring more appreciation to my
experience. I was mad last yearthat I turn just turned 70 mad.
It took me a long time to reallyjust get over being angry and
self deprecating that I hadn'taccomplished a certain amount of

(34:55):
things that that was on myaccomplishment list. Up till
that point until a few monthsago, as I've been caring, caring
for my 99 year old mother andwitnessing how much in grace,
that she is right where she is.
And that is a potentially awindow to look at my future

(35:16):
self. You see? So I'm lookingdown the road now to and say,
Well, what can I do? And who canI be? What is the value of my
future self? 10 years from now20 years from now, at 70. We
look forward and it medically weprobably have 30 more years,

(35:37):
most of us who are healthy nowat 70? Or if you're 60, you
know, you're gonna live another3040 years. How can we create
value now? In what does it meanto us? What will bring value to
us in the future? What will makeus feel expansive? What will

(36:01):
make us feel more loving, moregenerous, more giving? It's not
always in the having. I thinkit's in the beginning, who can
we be? How can we be morepeaceful? How can we be more
grateful? How can we be moreappreciative? How can we bring

(36:22):
value to others withoutexpecting so much in return? I
have a friend who goes intoevery meeting. And I'm inspired
by him. He goes into everymeeting and he said, I'm going
to teach you a new mindset ofvalue. So I've got this from
him. So this is not mine, but Iwant to share it right now. He

(36:45):
calls it the 120 rule. You'veheard
I'm sorry, this is who was this?
A friend of mine. Okay. I'llgive him credit. His name is
David Meltzer. He's one of thekeynote speakers in the

(37:08):
television show that I produced.
He's he's one of the keynotespeakers in that television
show. And he's a motivationalexpert, and a mindset
specialist. So his he has thisrule called the 120 rule. It's
not the 8020 rule. You've heardof that? Yes, of course. But
here's is the 120 rule. And itsays, he says Know your value,

(37:32):
be your value, bring your valueto it to the table, whether it's
a negotiation table, whether itis the relationship table,
whether it is the table ofcreation, where you're creating
value, and CO creating withothers, to create a corporation,
organization. So what he saidfor every timed and I'm going to

(37:58):
heat this, this are his props,$100 and $20. He says, so he
said, I bring $100 worth ofvalue. But I only charged $20
for it. But I'm always bringing$100 of myself a value, even
though it's only 20 that I'mexpecting in return. And what

(38:23):
does that do for me, he says,that is a mindset of value in
which I'm always ready toprovide more value than what is
expected or more value thananything that I expect in return
and that by bringing more valueto any situation, he says, I
then have the opportunity tochange the destiny of any

(38:47):
organization that then I'minvolved with, and bringing
value as a way of life andbringing value in a mindset that
shifts who and what I'm beingWhy am I being in this world, if
not to bring more value of thatwhich is within me anyway,

(39:09):
inherent. And it brings out thisidea. In my mind, he doesn't
really go into this teachingmore deeply. But I have sat in
the in awe of the idea longenough to come up with this idea
of my own and that is that thevalue is that you're tapping
into an unlimited source. Withinthat we speak about resources

(39:34):
and wanting to add value byfinding resources, more
resources, when in fact, thegreatest resource we have is the
source within which iswell known in the world in the
world today and I'm going toshift a bit but in the world
today we find ourselvessurprised that when there's a

(39:57):
challenge substantial challenge,we all pull together. And we all
get creative. But for whateverreason, we seem to believe that
we need to, we need thatchallenge. In order to do that,
when in reality we we should bedoing that every day doesn't
mean we have to do it in that,that level of dramatic, you

(40:18):
know, what happens when thingsfall apart and you know, your
house burns and whatever. But,you know, on a regular basis, we
should be thinking about it, itdoesn't again, it does not have
to be as dynamic. But as long asit's consistent, I think
exactly. Yeah. Let's talk alittle bit about what happens
after wealth management. Let'stap into the books, let's tap

(40:38):
into the invention, your TVShow, and let's go to mentoring.
Because obviously, yourenthusiasm is a key to your own
creativity. Along with yourability to reflect and
understand and pace yourself,you were talking about making
sure that the distractions andmaking sure that you're staying

(40:59):
centered, are all things thatmake it make you powerful when
you sit down across the tablefrom others. So how did you get
into books? And how did you getinto mentors?
A little bit by accident, butnot totally by accident. I
retired from investment advisoryin 2010. That was after a

(41:27):
medical diagnosis that took me awhile to recover from so I
decided to retire one industryand then look around and say,
Well, what more is there for,for the old gal here. And I just
got into tennis, I did just funthings like one would do to
retire. But I got bored. Andthen I thought, well, what is

(41:51):
next, I jumped in to personaldevelopment, I was curious, I
had worked with Reverend MichaelBeckwith agape church as a
spiritual practitioner. And Iloved his motivation,
motivational style. And he hadthe ability to, to, you know,

(42:17):
help through words, shift one'sperception without being
religious. And I began to lookinto that idea for myself. And I
found a lot of mentors who spoketo my heart. And I began to
study with those mentors. Andwhen I did that, I decided that

(42:42):
there's that part within me thatloves mentorship, and the power
of mentorship where we can helpothers give back, take knowledge
that we've experienced in, youknow, from our past, and pass it
on, pass it forward and do good,good deeds in the world. So a

(43:03):
lot of this is all kind ofcoming together when I met Jared
Rosen, whom you met mentioned,who had an opportunity to create
a new company called Dreamsculpt books, and media, and
asked me to be part of thatendeavor, so that we could help

(43:25):
others who wanted to publishtheir good deeds and their good
works. And every one of thosebooks had something in it that
would help others. And that gotme interested. What can we do as
a medium that can help otherswhile books is one medium, TV or

(43:46):
media is another medium. And soI just began to get curious and
fascinated with the differentways that we can help other
people through the power ofmentorship. And books is a
great, great way of doing that.
Videos are a great way of doingthat.

(44:08):
Take us talk a little bit aboutwhere they could see you for the
mentorship because I think it'syou're on you're on, you're on.
You're on television, you're onspectrum or something like that.
Yeah.
Well, I think you're referringto. In addition to that book,

(44:29):
business, I then decided Iwanted to create something
special on my own. And so Igathered all of the mentors that
I have been working with, asmany of them were my own
mentors. And then I asked themwho they would look up to. And
so I decided, well, let'sproduce a whole show. Let's get

(44:51):
all these mentors together andproduce a television show
because I don't didn't think ithad been done. But let's do it
in a way where people couldreally They experience
motivational speakers from thestage and feel that rising
conviction, you know, when youget motivated, what you can do

(45:12):
with your own rising convictionand how the EFA how you feel the
next day, you just go out andhard charge it. And I love that
feeling. I wanted more of thatfeeling. And I wanted to be able
to produce that feeling forothers. So I became a producer,

(45:33):
which is something I neverthought I would do. Never had
any clue on how to do that hadno background in the
entertainment world or oranything like that. But I did
find some inspiration from WaltDisney. It's kind of a moron.

(45:55):
Well, some inspiration from WaltDisney. Oh, well, Disney. Okay,
gotcha. And I'll tell you thatstory in a minute if you'd like
to hear it. But what I did isnot just with me, but along with
my partner, Julie Jones,Hamilton and our other

(46:16):
production partner, DavidMeltzer, whom I mentioned, had
the rule 120 rule. He was alsothe executive producer of the TV
show called world's greatestmotivators. And that TV show has
1314 episodes, half hourepisodes, and it was aired on
national cable television inright at the beginning of the

(46:41):
pandemic 2020. And it aired allthat year, on a different cable
stations. And now we aredistributing it on live stream.
streaming services, includingHulu, Hulu, and crackle TV, and

(47:04):
Plex TV and many distributorshave of the show. And just
recently, we have an offer for aGerman company who wants to take
it internationally to Germany inthe German language. So that
means that we're just beginningto syndicated overseas where I
believe the hunger really is in,you know, in other worlds for

(47:27):
the power of mentorship, and thecan do attitude. And all of the
messages that are in that showis that you know, you can do it
if you believe you can. And whatis this can stuff that I'm
talking about? Really it isadding value.
Right. Are you one of thementors? Because you know,

(47:49):
you're mentoring the daylightsout of us here.
Oh, thank you. I'm not becauseit was the best of the best. We
did a show that was the best ofthe best. And that included
people who've been, you know,speaking on stages for 4050
years, we had Bob Proctor, hejust passed away, unfortunately.
But we were so proud that wehave him on our marquee to bring

(48:12):
His message worldwide. JackCanfield, Les Brown Brian Tracy,
John Azur if Sharon Lechter,these Mary Morrissey, these are
names that have been at the toptop top of the personal
development field for years, andthey've all been trained from,

(48:36):
you know, people before themlike Earl Nightingale, and so
forth. So there's a wholehistory of mentorship, upon
whose shoulders I'm standing bybeing the producer. So it's not
me. But I you know, I was veryfortunate to have the vision
first of all, and then make ithappen with the help of a lot, a

(48:57):
lot of contributors.
Well, I could keep continue tointerview you, I but I know that
James and n o have questions foryou. But before we go to that, I
want to thank you for bringingup revolutionary conversations,
first of all, but alsorevolutionary conversations in
our head. And you've now forcedme now that it's out of the box,

(49:18):
so to speak. We have to dealwith it. And I think, look, I
will be looking to you. And youprobably you've probably refined
it in ways that I never thoughtof so. So anyway, I'll be
back to you with any way I canhelp. That would be wonderful.
Yeah. Wouldn't bewonderful. It was interesting to
hear you mentioned some namesthat I haven't heard for a very

(49:40):
long time. And that was when youmentioned Beckwith my
introduction to him was back.
Remember in 2006 when the secretYes, was first introduced to us
and it brought about that thatwhole idea of, of your own value

(50:06):
and bringing what you value toyourself. And it seems to have
gotten lost. And it's it wentinto a pocket that became very
commercial. But I think thatit's unfortunate that so many
younger people coming up todaydon't have the kind of

(50:28):
enthusiasm that people hadaround the secret back all those
years ago, is there somethingthat I'm missing that's
happening today that I don't seethat was as, besides what you're
doing, bringing those kinds ofpeople to for?
Well, and thank you, that's,that's wonderful, acknowledging

(50:49):
and the secret definitelyopened, it was historic, and it
opened our awareness. It's notthe first time that's that that
has happened. I mean, most of uswho are on this panel, lived
through the Vietnam War, when,you know, we were just moving
through the 1960s of awakening,all kinds of, of new ideas,

(51:12):
love, peace, rock and roll. Andthen, you know, we kind of went
dormant for a while the secretwas, was the first pop up
because of the internet. And itwent viral because of the
internet. And so thank you foracknowledging that actually, on
the world's greatest motivatorshow, we do have Reverend

(51:33):
Michael Beckwith, as youmentioned, is one of the stars
but also Bob Proctor, and alsoJohn Azur F, and also Lisa
Nichols, and also and also, sothese same voices are still
around, and they are still veryeffective, in my opinion, of
helping to elevate what's reallyimportant today. And that is

(51:59):
that, yes, the law of attractionis part of it. But it's so they
do, I think you've done a betterjob because we are in an
evolutionary stage of thepersonal development messaging.
And they every one of them nowtalk about the law of vibration
is that to be in the vibrationof a higher idea, always Trump's

(52:24):
the vibration of a lower idea.
And that's why I love thisprogram so much, Mark. And what
you've done here is because thatthe idea of adding value as a
way of life becomes a high,highly beautiful idea. That's
attractive. And however, and Ijust want to say this, I am

(52:49):
aware that young people now doknow about the law of
attraction. As a matter of fact,I just heard the other day, this
is really cute. There are Ithink it was Bezos, or one of
the main influencers, I think itwas Bezos, who had who has his

(53:09):
particular rules of attraction.
And so a lot of the youngerpeople are on their videos, on
their iPhones and othersmartphones, doing a lot of
attraction work. And it'sfascinating because that younger

(53:30):
generation, I think, already hasit in their DNA a little bit
more than, you know, an oldergeneration, they get it faster,
that law of attraction makessense to them, of the law of
vibration makes sense to them.
They assimilate things so fastnow that they actually, you
know, can manifest much fasterthan I think I ever could or
did. Does that does that? Ithink so I have a great deal of

(53:54):
hope, a great deal of hope forthe future.
I agree. It's when it's theabundance. You know, so many
people live in a world wherethere's a lack of abundance.
And, you know, if I give them Ihave to take away from something
else. And and that's what Ithink Mark is trying to focus on

(54:14):
the fact that you come in to asituation not to see what's
wrong, but to see what's right,and what abundance we can build
on. And when you look at things,for example, like tick tock,
when we thought social media wasdone and had been exposed, and
then comes along this newbie,not taking anything away from

(54:34):
anybody else, just adding moreabundance to an environment that
we all can share and be part of.
And it's that type ofenvironment that I think you are
trying to expand for people.
Yeah, well said and I think allof us are. Certainly it takes a

(54:55):
lot of understanding and andwilling to change right now. Oh
my goodness that the level ofchange, it just gets more and
more rapid.
Exactly, exactly. Now I thinkwhat you bring to the table is,
is exciting. And I like to hearit spoken of again, when. And if
it brings you back to so many ofthose, not that I ever, ever

(55:18):
truly left them because I'vealways lived in world abundance.
But I'm, it sometimes get battedaround by those who find it,
that they don't have that muchto give, because they have to
take from themselves in order togive Hmm.
It's interesting you say that,because when you go in many
companies, you've got the higherups and the, you know,

(55:43):
supposedly the one, you know,down the bottom. And what's
interesting is that when youknow, in a turnaround situation,
or a crisis situation, it'soften the people down below that
make it happen, not the ones upabove. Because they're more in
touch with what they need.
They're more in touch what'shappening there. And they don't
know it until somebody in manyways, you know, we raised the

(56:07):
question or like, and then said,we come alongside them, and
don't treat them like they'reabove or below. But we're doing
this together type of situation.
You know, I didn't really get achance to introduce and and
James that was something Inormally do, and is quite the

(56:31):
Pioneer herself. You're talkingabout you being one of 50 and,
and jump forward, we wegraduated from college together
we were we both shared a verytreasured friend, Ken Johnson,
Kenny Johnson, and he was myroommate. And I knew Ann and but

(56:54):
Ann was worked in big business,he was the head of Hallmark
retail. And she was the head ofFTD FTD and worked on several
other major companies as as CEOor vice president or whatever,
she's, in many cases, she wasthe only female in the

(57:15):
boardroom, that's for sure. Soyou have a bit in common with
eachother. So kudos, kudos to you.
And thank you, Lynn, one of myfavorite stories is one
corporate meeting when someone Iheard someone turn to someone
else and say, did somebody bringtheir wife

(57:35):
and I was president of retail, Iwas president of a division for
Vanity Fair at that point. Andthey had never had a woman
president up up until thatpoint. And it was you had to be
a little more gymnasticpossibly. Because you had to
figure out your how you weregoing to use some of the things

(57:58):
that the men would use to youradvantage, while bringing in the
nuances that a gal can bring tothe table that they've had
sorely overlooked at that point.
Wow, that's, well, I'm sure thatyou were not only breaking the
glass ceiling. But being a greatrole model for those who

(58:22):
followed your footsteps.
You know, it's so interestingthat you bring that up plan. And
I wonder if you've experiencedthis as a mentor in exactly what
you're speaking, I found sooften that women coming through,
were unwilling to take threesteps back to get 10 steps
forward. Because they work sohard to get those three steps,

(58:47):
it was impossible to move backto go forward. And sometimes you
have to do that. Sometimes youhave to make, you know, not make
a complete 180 to get to whereyou want to go. And they just
weren't willing to do it. And sothat's when they often got happy
with being called administrativeassistant instead of a

(59:09):
secretary. Well, what did youWhat did you mean by step back a
little bit, you know, well,sometimes when you when you want
to make a bold career move, youhave to come in at a spot that
isn't possibly at the same levelof the spot you're in right now.

(59:31):
But you can read the tea leavesand see that the potential for
that is so great, that that'swhere you should be going.
And so what's the future? That'sthe future self right?
That's right, that's talking toyour future self and not looking
at where you're landing so muchis where you want to be.

(59:53):
That's very powerful. Andlooking back on my career. I can
see times when I would haveliked to have a had a mentor to
outline for me what it couldmean to me the value that it
could bring to me but no,really, I didn't, didn't have
that. Nor was, you know, you'rejust like you said, coping,

(01:00:18):
taking every day to just getthrough the day as a woman in
that stressful situation where,you know, you're you're really,
you're you're breaking groundwhen you're breaking ground,
it's like takes all that you'vegot to move that, you know,

(01:00:39):
bulldozer ahead. Now, I thinkthat we have a little bit more
elegance in CO creatingcoordinated movement as more
elegant way of management. But Ithink that was sorely missing
very few mentors. And that's whyI'm passionate about the power
of mentorship. How we can bemore conscious to be mentors,

(01:01:04):
not, you know, not only askingfor mentorship, because that's
also a skill set. Know when youneed to ask for mentorship, but
also to offer it and to see whenit's needed. But the skill of
communication again, it's arevolutionary conversation, when
you can mentor someone well.
Yes.

(01:01:30):
I'm going to interrupt for aquick second. I want to get back
to James and if Ann has otherquestions as well, I'd like to
tap into those. But I don't wantto forget because sometimes I
forget to close the loop on somethings and and will remind me
later we always ask theinterviewee after the, in the

(01:01:51):
last parts of the interview, isthere something that came up to
from you, from us or from you orfrom the environment today, the
interaction today that that youhad never thought of? Or the
surprised you. And surprise,surprise you in some way are?

(01:02:14):
Like my my late partner in thein the in the revolutionary
conversations program, GloriaAxelrod used to say, How do I
know what I mean? Until I hearwhat I say. And that has
happened to me many, many timesin presentations, being able to
say, I'll be talking a lot, I'mdoing the doing the
presentation, and all of asudden, something will come out

(01:02:35):
of me that I would I I neverplanned on saying and probably
never even said to myself. Andanyway, is there anything that
comes to mind as you were goingthrough this? Like, I'm glad I
said that or? I never thoughtabout that or whatever?
Interesting question. I thinkthe concept of future self

(01:03:01):
future value is one that rangtrue for me, and I want to stick
a pin in that for myself andcome back and explore it more.
How can I be my best self? It'sa question that I believe we can

(01:03:24):
all really ask ourselves.
There's the whole personaldevelopment industry is based on
that? How can we motivate othersto be their best selves? Or what
does that mean? So what I reallyloved was the opportunity for me
personally, since I do have thisinteresting financial background

(01:03:47):
of 35 years of helping to craftportfolios and build wealth for
people over time to look backand look at the meaning of
economic value added, presentvalue, future value, those are
all economic terms that youknow, we used to live and die by

(01:04:07):
and measurement sticks. Butputting those measurements six
to oneself and say, Well, whatis it that I'm here to be? What
am I called to do? What is itthat's within my spirit that is
yet to be done in excites me?

(01:04:28):
Those things, I want tocontemplate those things I want
to have a revolutionaryconversation with myself about
those things. I want to dreammore within myself and see that
the dream state is the seed theseeding the place of seeding for

(01:04:49):
that future value.
Thank you. Thank you, James. Idon't want to forget you
here. Thanks for not forgettingme. I did. Just been super
stimulated by this conversation,I mean, and I want to sort of
comment off of the, there was acomment from our participant

(01:05:15):
from Pakistan. That sounds, yes,expressing his appreciation for
you bringing these things to theworld stage because I feel like,
you know, you, you came in andso often we have these
conversations, and it's aboutwhat people at my level, you
know, can do to start this wholewave of improvement versus

(01:05:39):
people at the top and the levelof integrity that has to occur,
you know, at the top, and, andso much of this, we had Rinaldo
last, that our last guest, and,and he was talking about some of
the stuff that happened in thelate 70s, where I became
actually sort of aware of, ofthe, you know, the country I

(01:06:02):
lived in, and how we, there's alittle bit of a difference in,
in certain kinds of economicsituations. And, and by now, you
know, often I feel like, youhave to have an attorney, you
know, present to walk out yourfront door. And there's, you
know, there's so many rules, tobe a guy that, that wants to

(01:06:27):
moonlight and have a smallbusiness on the side and a full
time job and try to inventsomething and write a book, you
know, there's so manyliabilities to being a guy that
wants to do a lot of differentthings, if you're going to pay
your taxes correctly, andpublish things right and not,
you know, not go bankrupt, or,or you behave with in a certain

(01:06:53):
out integrity manner to survivethat whole arc. And so, I feel
like, you know, this whole ideaof compassionate capitalism, you
know, this, this whole sort ofas within so without kind of
approach you have, and even thelexicon, you know, that you use

(01:07:13):
is sort of spiritual in nature,you know, it's, the idea of a
higher power being brought intoany kind of financial planning.
Is, is revolutionary to me. So,you know, I don't know, if
that's just a comment, oranything that you can speak to,
because I have about eight or 12bullet points here things

(01:07:35):
like, for games, that's prettybrilliant. I think it's
wonderful, thank you so much forpointing out some of the
resistances resistances that wedo have, and we face and in our
normal everyday life, there's nodoubt that we are in a world of

(01:07:58):
liability. And it's always goodto have an attorney as your best
friend. I think certainly, inthe investment advisory world,
the number one thing that I wasthe most expert at and made sure
I was was was the the legalitiesof what it takes to operate

(01:08:26):
correctly in in the investmentadvisory world. Which is all,
you know, the laws that governour financial institutions. And
the laws that govern oureconomic institutions and
corporate institutions are realthough through like, you know,

(01:08:46):
guardrails that we have withinwhich to navigate and operate.
And there's no question thatthere has been abuse in,
especially in economic terms,countries politically and so
forth. That's a deeper topic,James, but the main thing that I

(01:09:07):
get that I'm feeling from you isthat what does one do? I mean,
it's just, it takes a lot ofawareness, to bring your best,
and all your gifts to the worldand still have. Have that part

(01:09:28):
of you. That's that has to crossthe t's and dot the I's and make
sure that the paperwork is donecorrectly. And that is just the
world that we live in. Nodifferent from any other time in
history. No different from Imentioned, Walt Disney. I loved

(01:09:49):
to give you a story about thatin just a second. But Walt
Disney back in the high creativedays of the beginning of that
corporation, and remember thatcorporation has has been a
wellspring of wealth for peoplearound the world, not just
Americans who happen to buy theDisney stock at any point in

(01:10:09):
over the last 40 years, but alsofor their employees. And just in
in terms of ideology, the hope,the hope that the that has been
marketed and consumed, I thinkspiritually even have been the
young children who listen to themovies that are created by Walt

(01:10:32):
Disney and the ideology ofdream. And you can do anything,
just dream it. Just try it, justdream it. You have the power
it's within it comes fromwithin, you know, be with your
dreams, allow your dreams to bereal. Allow your dreams to pull
you forward. Yes, you do have,you know certain conditions?

(01:10:54):
Yes, we're all on a hero'sjourney. Yes, compassionate
capitalism is being birthedright now, after a grudge
egregious problems all over theworld, which still happen, and
still are going on. But there isa higher awareness that I choose
to stick myself in and geteducated about, so that we can

(01:11:18):
all do better together. I hopethat helps a little bit. I
really do believe that we are,we're making progress.
Well, and I also think it reallyhelps for people like yourself
to point out to people like methat this is no different than
any other time in history. Therewas, you know, doing business
during the Roman Empire was justas difficult. Oh,

(01:11:39):
my gosh, you're so right. In theRoman Empire, all of the
progress was done by slaves.
Come on, the whole place wasbuilt by their slaves. Even the
Egyptians, the slaves, I mean,you know, we, we have made some
progress.
Yeah, sometimes we want to thinkthat it's all you know, today's

(01:12:02):
problem, and it's just part ofbeing human. And I really
appreciate you bringing rightsizing. And, you know, as a man
who, um, you know, who's who'snot afraid to admit that he's
cried at the end of marijuana?
Yes. That he had a deepspiritual experience watching
the end of that animated Disneyshow.

(01:12:26):
So I think this is a perfectopportunity for me to tell my
story about Walt Disney, if it'sokay with you, Mark.
And I just want to be careful ofthe time for Ann and James,
because they may.
Go ahead, okay, I'll make itfast. Back when I was probably

(01:12:48):
1988 or so I came across anarticle in Fortune Magazine.
That was a illustration, datingback to 1957. Illustrated by
Walt Disney himself. And it wascalled Walt Disney's theory of
value creation. Oh, really, WaltDisney's theory of value

(01:13:12):
creation. And on oneillustration, one piece of
paper, he did this, he, heoutlined visually, what his
future value was going to looklike. And in the middle, he had

(01:13:35):
his content creators, who werethe value creators, the value
creation of everything came fromthe dreamers here, they were
dreamers, they're the ones whodid the movies and everything.
And then down here wasDisneyland, and over here was
the record company, and overhere was the TV shows, and over
here was, and they all kind ofwere working together from the

(01:13:59):
central place from which thevalue was being created. And he
ended and the article went on tosay that the implicit future
evolution that this particularthing provided guidance
concerning the competitiveterrain that Disney eventually

(01:14:23):
faced, but that the assets andthe capability, that combination
of his theory that that weevolve forward through time that
theory has not fundamentallychanged by Disney Corporation is

(01:14:44):
still operative today. And Ijust think for you know, that
particular thing has excited mefor about three decades now
since I saw that and I wanted toshare that because Mark, what
you're doing here Are is soimportant. One man built an

(01:15:04):
empire and really created wealtharound the world for people
based upon a theory of valuecreation.
And for that wonderful,wonderful example.
And the fact that thank you forfor this particular opportunity
to be on your show.
Well goes both ways, it goesboth ways. You know, one of the

(01:15:27):
reasons why we focus onindividuals like you is that
oftentimes, people look atsuccessful people, and they
don't believe they can also besuccessful. They don't realize,
in the nine episodes that we'vedone, everybody's had a
different way of, you know,finding that their their value

(01:15:51):
of where it came from, we didn'teven talk a lot about, you know,
your mom being, you know, a rolemodel for you. And now here you
are also with your mom doing aTV show, from a podcast of your
own about your mom. And, youknow, and obviously, there's a
lot of reflective and creativeand evolutionary things going on

(01:16:11):
for you in that process withyour mom. But everybody is
doesn't different. And I hopethat you know, when we keep
going and going that people lookat interviews like yours and
say, I can relate to that and Ican relate to you know how I can

(01:16:32):
do it myself, I can, I cantouchstone, where I came from,
and several people have had somepretty big aha says to where
that came. I never thought aboutthat before. You know where in
so they can go back and touch onit. It's, it's been very
exciting. And that then it'skind of like there's no rules
about how you create value, youjust gotta tap into what, what

(01:16:55):
the universe or you you know,what comes with you? What's the
package, you've got an awful lotgoing on. So how do you tap into
it? So, so thank you. Next Nextmonth, we have Marty Cooper
already invented the handheldcell phone. And he has a lot to

(01:17:18):
talk about the history of phonesfrom from mobile phones, meaning
that they used to have carphones back in 1939. To where he
kicked off in the early 70s Inthe mid 80s. So when Thank you
very much, you are always aninspiration. And if if I'm

(01:17:41):
grumpy and and I don't have asmile on my face, all I have to
do is do an interview with you.
Thank you. Well, I hope youinvited me back. It's been a lot
of fun. I appreciate you andthank you, Ann and James so much

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