November 26, 2024 • 60 mins
What happens when you abandon conventional medication for a more holistic approach to mental health? Tara from Brooklyn shares her eye-opening journey with bipolar disorder, highlighting the challenges and triumphs of navigating life without pharmaceutical intervention. Listen as we explore the invisible nature of health struggles and uncover the transformative power of kindness, alongside the crucial roles that spirituality, career, and relationships play in maintaining mental wellness.
Growing up in a household that shied away from mental health discussions, she recount her own battles with depression and anxiety from a young age. The road to understanding bipolar disorder was paved with trial and error, and it took years to find the right therapist and medication. Yet, it was the integration of alternative practices, like traditional Chinese medicine and massage therapy, that truly shifted her perspective. Discover the resilience found in listening to one's body and the importance of holistic practices in achieving mental clarity.
Journey with us as we delve into the realm of nutrition and substances like cannabis, discussing their roles in mental health management. Our conversation sheds light on the empowering process of weaning off medication with the support of diet, therapy, and mindful reflection. Tara and I challenge the norm, illustrating how moderation, self-awareness, and personal choice can redefine your relationship with mental health. Join us in creating a space where shared experiences foster hope and healing for those on similar paths.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
When I hear a part of my story, I try to hide in the
glory and spit under the tableso you would never know.
Sometimes I feel like anaccident.
People look on their path and Inever check on the passenger.
They just want the free show.
Yeah, I'm constantly trying tofight something that my eyes
can't see.
My mind and me we don't getalong sometimes and it gets hard
(00:35):
to breathe, but I wouldn'tchange my life and all of the
crushing and burning andbreaking.
I know now If somebody sees melike this Then they won't feel
alone now, hello, hello, mypeeps.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's a rainy, rainy Tuesday morning and that is the
best time to do a podcast,because there's nothing else to
do.
Well, if you have to go to your9 to 5, I get it, but for
someone like me who works fromhome, who have my private
practice, who you know that'sone of the perks.
(01:19):
Mind you, I do work 80 hours aweek, but that's the perk is I
can do something like this on arainy morning and I hope you
like my song.
Selena gomez is my mind and me.
I've always loved that song andit's really in the mood of
today's discussion.
(01:40):
I have my beautiful friendsvisiting Hi, and you know,
october was Mental HealthAwareness Month and I didn't do
a podcast for that.
I did plan one and I recordedit, but I didn't release it and
I think there was a reasonbehind that.
Because here comes thisconversation that I think is
(02:02):
going to be so helpful, so sohelpful, not just because
October was Mental HealthAwareness Month, but you know, I
am in my 50s now and they dosay if you have any episodes of
depression in your life when youhit men menopause, this is so
(02:26):
easy to get triggered and tosink into depression and, if I'm
honest, the last few monthshave been really kind of weird,
to say, to put it mildly for me.
But because of the work that Ido, I know my triggers, I can
feel it coming on.
I'm okay, this is happening.
(02:47):
Let me go do a workout, let mego for a walk, let me play music
, and so this is the episodewhere we're going to be
discussing things related to ourmind, our emotions, and you
know it has so much to do.
You know I'm I'm into nutritionand I was just talking about
(03:08):
primary foods and secondaryfoods and in that terminology,
in the wellness world, primaryfoods relate to our life, or
joys or spirituality, or job orcareers, and all those things do
play a part in our mentalhealth.
And that's our primary food andthen the secondary food.
(03:31):
Secondary food are the thingswe eat every day.
You know, the healthiest stuff,the unhealthiest of the
processed foods, the unprocessedfoods.
You know we'll talk about thatanother day, not today, not
today.
Today we're sticking to primerfoods and mainly our emotional
mind or well everything, becausemental health it, it touches
(03:54):
all of our lives, orspirituality or job, or careers
or relationships, everything.
So we're in real primary foodterritory so I'm gonna let my
friend introduce herself in away that she whatever she wants
to tell you about herself if shedoesn't want to tell you her
name, she doesn't have to tellyour name.
Mind your own business.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So I love the uh, the caveat there.
Um, my name is Tara.
I'm from Brooklyn, new YorkShout out Brooklyn and I have
journeyed to Turks and Caicos,to this beautiful land of
Lorraine's.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
She's at Eitel Retreat TCI.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes, the most beautiful place to go and to
truly retreat from whatever yourwoes are or if you just need to
rejuvenate, for whatever reason.
Yeah, I've been on my mentalhealth journey for I don't know,
I guess my whole life, butprobably seriously, the last 10
(04:58):
years, yeah, and I'm just sograteful to be here and talking
to Lorraine and all of you aboutwhat I've learned and what I
have yet to learn.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So while we were here , you know, tara shared with me
about the fact that and that shewas diagnosed with bipolar,
that she was diagnosed withbipolar, and I would never have
guessed it, and that started aconversation about her journey
(05:35):
living with bipolar and Inoticed I did not say the word
disease because it's just aliving condition.
It is what it is, and she isamazing and stunning and
beautiful and brilliant, and soit reminded me of the fact that
we really don't know people justby looking at them.
(05:58):
Health is such a sometimes aninvisible situation and that you
know, I always stress, you knowI'm always talking about just
be kind, be kind, just be kind,just be a kind human.
It's so important.
It goes a long way.
And I say kind, not good andnot nice, because nice people
(06:24):
and good people, uh no, you canbe nice and be a horrible person
because you're just nice forthe show, and you can be good
but not kind, and so that's.
I always stress about kindness.
But tara shared with me aboutthe fact that she made a
(06:46):
decision to to relieve herselffrom pharmaceutical medication
and I'm meeting her in this in astate where she is
non-medicated, and so we Iwanted to talk to her about what
(07:06):
that journey was like, whatwent into making that decision,
where did you go for the?
Where did you go, what was theprocess, what was the experience
like and how is life after?
So I'm going to turn it over toTara for a little bit and let
her share her story.
(07:27):
We're going to hold space forher and I know this conversation
is going to help someone, asthat's what we're here to do.
We exist in the world to shareour gifts, and our gifts could
be our life experiences thatcould help someone heal, and so
(07:47):
that's what Tara is going to dofor us.
I'm sure I'm going to learn somuch from it as well, in a not
just as a practitioner, but alsoas someone who struggles with
mental health issues every nowand again.
You know it's a constantprocess and we just have to work
at it.
So, without much delay, myfriend Tara is gonna take it
(08:09):
from here oh, what a beautiful,beautiful segue.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Um, yeah, I started, I I guess, taking from the
beginning.
I started experiencing, youknow, depression, anxiety, anger
, a lot, a lot of anger.
Uh, when I was about 12 yearsold.
Um, I was pretty young, it'sright when you get through
puberty, so it makes a lot ofsense.
(08:35):
Um, the world was changing, uh,I was changing, and I was not
best suited at that time to takecare of myself, as a lot of 12
year olds are not, and so Istarted acting out a lot.
I was not, you know, the bestchild to my mother, I think at
(08:58):
that time.
But you know, I think I wastrying to cope and get through
those emotions without the bestmechanisms in front of me.
And so I didn't really starttreating my mental health issues
until I was in high school.
I'm from a family, I'm from anIrish family.
(09:20):
We do not, or at leasthistorically we do not, uh, talk
about our mental health verymuch.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
We are strong because we are strong as a, as a as a
chocolate woman myself.
What is with that?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, oh yeah, we are resilient.
We can do it ourselves.
Um, we'll get over.
It is just you know um.
You know, someone else hassuffered worse someone else, and
we've all conquered that.
Right so yeah, we didn't reallytalk about it in my family and
so I did not feel at the timethat I would get support from my
(10:00):
family, so I have been ababysitter my entire life.
I was always babysitting kidsand that's how I made an income
from a really young age.
So I was able to afford atherapist out of pocket.
Whoa, yeah, because I wasscared that the insurance would
show up on my healthcare accountthat my mom obviously had in
(10:22):
her name and then my familywould know I was going to
therapy healthcare account thatmy mom obviously had in her name
and then my family would know Iwas going to therapy.
So, yeah, I started by going tothis therapist.
Uh, I was thinking I was like16 or 17.
She was like 150 bucks for asession, which is crazy.
Uh, it's very normal now, butit was crazy.
Then it was just like the bestsolution I had.
(10:42):
I thought, and I actually had areally terrible time.
She forgot everything I toldher the second time I went in.
It was like the first time Ihad really opened up and been
honest about a lot of things.
I was feeling, um, yeah, it wasa really bad experience for my
first time.
um, and that stunted me a bit um, um, because I was just, you
(11:04):
know, I was young, I was likethis is it, this is what therapy
is.
I, you know, I didn't know thatshe had really bad reviews on
the internet, right, I didn'tknow how to do that research.
So that was kind of my wholeworld.
When it came to therapy, I waslike, okay, this is not the
solution.
I'm just going to go back totaking care of myself Like I.
(11:26):
Go back to taking care ofmyself like I, maybe I don't
need this, maybe this isn't theway, um, and so I attempted to
do that for several more years,um until I was in college.
My freshman year of college, Ihad a really, really hard time,
um.
And then I ended uptransferring to a new school, my
sophomore year, um, which wasgreat, because freshman year was
definitely not.
Uh and there they had free,like college counseling um which
(11:48):
again didn't go throughinsurance.
So again I was like, okay, I canget healthcare from like a
licensed, like someone who'sreal, someone who knows what
they're doing, but also, itwon't, you know, there'll be no
evidence of it.
Um, and that is where I met anamazing therapist who truly did,
uh, change my life in a lot ofways and really started me on my
(12:10):
journey.
Um, and it was that year Ithink it was about 20 at that
point that I was diagnosed withbipolar disorder.
Um, and I started medication.
Um, and that the way I wasdiagnosed was through trial and
error, by medication.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, yeah, Idon't know if this is.
You know truly what should behappening.
(12:31):
But, yeah, they put me.
They were like, okay, you havedepression, they put me on
medication for that, and thenthat didn't really work and they
tried a few other ones, andthen they put me on I think it
was like Prozac, and they werelike my reaction to Prozac was
so bad, um, that made me worse.
And I go, oh, that must meanthat you're bipolar and
(12:51):
therefore you need moodstabilizer.
And that's how they theydiagnosed me.
I mean, of course, it was likeon top of like other symptoms, I
suppose.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Um, I do you know, I think I agree with that
diagnosis, um, or whatever thatmeans for a group of symptoms.
Anyway, that's how theydiagnosed me and that's how they
put me on mood stabilizers.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And for eight years I was on a concoction of mood
stabilizers and anti psychoticswhich they often kind of couple
with the mood stabilizer forwhatever scientific reason they
they have.
And it was, it was good.
Uh, it was.
You know, it was important forme to do that.
(13:30):
Uh, definitely, during thosepoints in my life where I
couldn't support myself in otherways, I didn't have the
emotional bandwidth or someonejust like I mean I was younger,
I wasn't able to be independentin a lot of the ways, I wasn't
able to make decisions all thetime, that were, you know,
solely based on what I needed.
And I and I just I mean I alsowas doing therapy throughout
(13:51):
that whole thing, off and on,and that was incredibly helpful
to me to kind of realize,reflect on and know myself a bit
better so that I can makedecisions for myself as I aged
and became a real human, makedecisions for myself as I aged
and became a real human.
Um, and you know I still hadups and downs, um, that that's,
(14:11):
you know, par for the course.
And I, again, I do think beingon medication was incredibly
important, um, for my journey,for a lot of people's journeys,
um, but I, um, but I I've alwayssaid I think it was like may
2023, so over a year ago now,almost two.
Uh, I had like the worst downI'd had in a really, really long
(14:36):
time.
I ended up having to go on fmlaright, which is where you take
like a break from it's a it's aus law that, where you take a
break from the US law, that youcan take a break from your job
for about two to three months Ifyou're experiencing mental
health illness.
You can also do it if, like youhave a sick family member or
something it's called the.
Family Medical Leave Act.
(14:56):
It's a great opportunity.
It's not paid all the time.
I'm almost positive mine wasnot paid.
Paid all the time.
I'm almost positive mine wasnot paid.
Um, sometimes it can be, but,um, I was able to, you know,
take two months off without fearof losing my job.
Like they wouldn't be able toyou know, uh, fire me as a
result of that.
So I did.
(15:16):
My boss was amazing during thetime.
Oh my God, marta, we love her.
Um, and she was supersupportive the whole time.
I was working at Housing Works,which is a health clinic
organization advocacy group thathelps folks, oh, okay that's
great yeah and they help folkswith mental health issues and
just it's a healthcare clinic sothey do everything but focusing
on LGBTQ folks and underinsuredfolks.
(15:39):
So that was great that, like Iwas in that kind of work
environment, I was supersupportive.
My boss is amazing.
So, yes, I took those twomonths off.
Um but, yeah, it really wasn'tgetting better until, honestly,
I I was also, you know, tryingto figure out what next cause
this just wasn't working, what,what I was doing in my life
(16:00):
wasn't working, um, and so Ireally felt most, most.
A lot of my family lives inIreland.
I have traveled to Ireland forevery year almost my entire life
um, and I've been.
I love traveling.
I love the idea of beingindependent.
I travel alone a lot, um.
I've done a lot of solo trips,um, and it brings me a lot of
(16:20):
joy and stability to beindependent in that way and
knowing that if things hit thefan, like I have to rely on
myself, yeah, um, and so I wasreally having this itching to go
abroad to live somewhere elseon my own, um, and I was
(16:41):
applying to jobs and a lot ofthe jobs I was looking at really
needed a master's degree.
So I was like, ok, maybe I cancouple these two things.
And I applied to go to schoolat the University College London
and it was in what?
June I found out that I got in.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So, although I was like, or maybe July.
And although I was like, ormaybe July, so it was like I was
in the worst part of my lifebut there was this, like you
know, shining light that wascoming in Something was
functioning.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes, your emotional and your mental was low, but
your career and that was, theopportunities were there and it
was just something to hope for.
And a lot of the time, I think,through my mental health
journey, like I have always, youknow, tried to have something
to hope for, something in thefuture that I plan for, so that
there's always again that thinglike okay, well, at least I'm,
(17:35):
you know, and a lot of it hasbeen travel, because travel
brings me so much joy and um andeverything.
So this was yeah a beautifulcoupling of that Um, and things
were definitely.
You know, at least I had thathope again, which I really was
hopeless for for quite a quite awhile at that point, um, which
(17:55):
was always the scariest part ofmental illness, right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's when.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
That's when the alarm bells ring and you're like okay
, well, let's, let's figure thisone out, um, because without
hope you're not doing well.
Um, and oh yeah, and at thatpoint, like I think it was like
june, they also put me on um ananti-anxiety.
So I was on those three meds Iwas on anti-anxiety, a mood
(18:21):
stabilizer and an antipsychotic.
And because of all this,lorraine, I almost missed the
most important part.
My body was starting to likedeteriorate.
So I had gained a lot of weightwhich I had never had weight on
me my whole life.
I just am very much geneticallyblessed in that way and I was
always active and I was alwaysalways like a kid playing soccer
(18:44):
and stuff, um and so like,really the first time in my life
I had, like you know, 50 poundson me, um, which feels like a
lot when you're holding that um,and you know, I mean ego and
self-esteem and everything rightwhen that goes down, yeah, yeah
it's just you really have to re.
Yeah, it's stupid.
(19:04):
It's the world we live in, butit's real um and it really, um,
affected how I saw myself andhow other people people do treat
you different and they do it's.
It's a weird feeling, um, andso it had a lot of weight on me.
And then also my gosh was veryfunny.
One day I was sitting next tomy mom on the couch.
She's just like on the otherside of the couch and she
screams and she's looking at meand she's screaming and I think
(19:26):
there's like a bug on me or likesomething's great, the crawling
all over me.
I'm like, oh my god, get it off, get it off.
She grabs my hair and she'slike, looking through my hair,
I'm like, oh my god, there'ssomething in my hair.
And she's like, oh my god, whatis this?
And she's found a bald spotthat's like bigger than a
quarter in my hair that likesomehow none of us realized
before this moment.
(19:46):
Of course, it's going to be yourmom to realize you have a bald
spot, um, and you know it wasscary.
It was scary because it's likewhat would cause that why?
Would that be happening?
Um, I don't know.
You start going to all thecrazy things.
It could be right, um, and so Igo to a doctor and that's when I
find out I have hypothyroidismso my thyroid is basically just
(20:09):
like clunked out, um, and I hadto start a thyroid medication.
Oh yeah, yeah, so that that waslike a whole thing, and the
thyroid med did help.
Um, I didn't really lose any ofthe weight, but my hair did
grow back.
Thank, god um and I Now fastforward, so I'm on those three
meds for my brain, but then Ialso am on a thyroid med for my
(20:31):
body, and let me tell you whenthis happened.
You know we love Google, welove WebMD right, so I'm.
Googling, I'm like, oh my God,what could this be?
Like no one else in my familyhas this, but all the doctors
are saying you're a woman.
So many women have this.
Because I'm like when, when Igoogle it, there's a few
(20:53):
articles that are like, oh um,lithium, which is one of the
mood stabilizers I was on, itcould cause this, um, but then I
said that to my doctors.
I was like, is there any waythis could be a result of my
medication?
They're like no, that's so rare.
That's definitely not it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's because you're a woman oh, the curse of curse of
being a woman.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
They're like does anyone inyour family have it?
I was like no, they're like Idon't know.
And I was like, okay, oh, thisdoesn't feel right, but they're
doctors.
Who am I?
Just a feeble woman?
So I am just going to take thisman and continue my life, um,
so that's how I leave thecountry.
Uh, that's how I leave.
(21:29):
Uh, this is about, yeah, youknow, a little over a year ago
now, um and I land in London, um, and I did have some family in
London, um, I had an aunt and acousin who lived there, uh, who
was pretty close with growing up, um, so I was able to stay
there off and on, um, but it wasvery much, you know, you know,
(21:52):
supporting myself, living off mysavings, um, and going to
school, which was always a bitof a trigger for me, um, but I,
you know, more than anything, Ijust felt, I felt happy that I
left the anxiety definitelyreduced.
Like I stopped grinding my teethas much I just.
(22:12):
I mean, I used to grind.
I'm already grinding back tobeing in the United States for
like a few days um, you know,just like little things.
It was getting better.
Um, and then I, you know, I hadother issues happening, like
acid reflux was like really abig problem which again never
had before, like the last year.
And then I had oh my god, Iforgot it's called it's called
(22:34):
like pill dysphagia or something.
It's basically when you takepills it's really hard to
swallow.
Oh my like it's incrediblydifficult.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
The body was telling you oh yeah, enough oh yeah, oh
yeah, my body said we're doneyeah your body, your body was
screaming out to you oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
And I think I finally was in a place where I could
hear it Right.
And so, and it's you know and Ido not recommend this to you.
Know the listener, who, whodoesn't have?
All the things that I had inplace during this time the
listener, who doesn't have allthe things that I had in place
during this time.
But I would listen to my bodyand I did slowly because it was
physically almost impossible toswallow.
(23:15):
I slowly stopped taking my medswhich again not not good for
generally speaking?
But, at the same time I startedseeing.
It was actually quite random,but I went in for a massage I've
always used massage as a formof self-care and retreat and I
(23:36):
there was a masseuse in the areawho actually ended up being a
traditional Chinese medicalhealer that I just randomly
signed up for Like I just kindof like hole in the wall
situation I go in and I did not.
I kept just going for like sixmonths.
I mean, these people changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And this is where you know.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Traditional medicine, traditional, yes, holistic
treatment of your body.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Oh, yes, and they were the ones also who were
encouraging.
You know they're like youshould stop taking these
medications, like we will.
You know, take ownership ofthat, we will make sure you know
.
They gave me herbs to help thetransition.
Um, and they we did intense,very painful, intense, uh
massage therapy for twice a weekfor about six months.
(24:24):
Um, and that, like, coupledwith coming off the meds
completely, um, truly.
I think was like the last thingI needed to do for for now,
right In my healing journey.
Every day, you have to continueto reflect and see what you
need.
But in terms of being able tocome off my meds and be, you
(24:45):
know, resilient with the toolsin front of me and not
pharmaceuticals.
That was kind of the last thingI needed to do.
Yeah, it was amazing.
I you know it wasn't easy.
Nothing is easy and still thereare days.
you know you make it sound easy,but no it's not, it was not, it
was not and it was probably notfun, no, no, there are so many
(25:08):
days where, you know, I mean, Iwas traveling a lot of it alone,
you know, in different places,where sometimes I didn't speak
the language and it was lonely,and I was on time zones where I
couldn't even call my friendsbecause they'd be asleep when I
was awake, and vice versa.
And you know, you just, I hadto learn a lot of things, um,
(25:36):
and the first one being, um,routine and discipline.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, and that is what kills us.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh yeah, routine and discipline.
Oh yeah, cause, trust me, likelately I've been like I'm going
to, I'm going to get up everymorning.
I'm going to go on theelliptical, then do some weight
training just because at thisage you're supposed to build
muscle.
You don't need to do a lot ofcardio, but you need to build
muscle and I'm telling youhonestly, sometimes if I get
(26:02):
four days in, it's good.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, yeah and you gotta own that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
You have to celebrate that as well if you get four
days in and then there are weekswhen I don't get any days in,
like, yeah, for the last sevendays I've got no days in.
Yeah, the most I've done is mytapping yeah in my, at my
meridians, okay to do to helpwith lymphatic drainage but
self-care and discipline is soimportant, which is hard if you
(26:29):
are going through a mentalhealth drought yeah, if you're
in a situation where your moodis low and thing, it's hard to
have that focus and discipline.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And it's only when you, after you've been working
on yourself yourself some a bit,and you're able to see the
triggers and see the sign there,you go like, oh no, no, no, no,
no, no.
Why am I doing this, why am Idoing that?
And you, you start to do thingsthat you know will help yeah
but routine and discipline yeah,no, they're so important.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
They're so important and you, I don't think I was
ever good at them before thelast year, to be honest.
I mean I.
I mean I even things like youknow and also like deep
reflection, right, and likereally holding space for
(27:28):
reflection and checking in withyour body, right.
So for a long time, noticing mydepression was always easy, I
feel like, for me anyway, right,it was like okay, you know.
I'm seeping into hopelessness.
Right, I don't have a lot ofenergy.
I'm feeling really sensitive.
You know all these things I waslike okay, I'm definitely on
the verge of being depressed, orI'm fully there.
(27:49):
Um, that was always simple forme, but the mania was always
really, really hard for me tonotice, um, and you know I'd be
doing, you know impulsive thingsand acting out of character,
and wouldn't notice it untillike a weekend or you know,
until I did something that maybehurt someone's feelings or hurt
(28:10):
my own feelings, or you know,yeah, I made a choice that
wasn't the most healthy, um, butnow you know, in this last year
, I was able to start noticingmy anemia like hours before it
even hit.
Um, wow, which was?
You feel the changes?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
in your yeah, which is true.
You know that's something thatyou don't.
That you feel the changes inyour, which is true.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
You know that's something that you don't that
you feel the changes in yourbody?
Oh, yeah, you do.
If you listen, if you sit, ifyou sit, you listen.
Uh, you do, you feel them, um,and I you know, and and not only
I'm at the point where I canfeel them, but now almost I'd
say you know 80% of the time,90% of the time, I can actually
associate it with something,right?
(28:51):
So, um, for instance, I my,really my one of my best friends
, uh, came to Italy with me, um,and for my birthday, uh, this
past year, and we were sittingand I had coffee that morning,
and generally I have milk in mycoffee, um, and there was no
milk, so I do drink black coffee, so I don't know why I did this
(29:13):
this morning, but I was like oh, I don't want it to just be
black.
So I'm gonna put a little bit ofsugar in it and, um, I don't.
I don't really like the tasteof sugar in my coffee,
especially not there's milk init, like that's just.
It tastes like dessert and Idon't need that, um, but I did I
put sugar in my coffee and Ihad an empty stomach Right, and
within an hour I felt souncomfortable, I felt like I was
(29:36):
crawling out of my skin, like Ifelt trapped, I was irritable,
I was really um, but Iimmediately knew, like, okay, I
did something, something likeI'm about to have mania, and I
knew that, like, more thanlikely, it was because of this
coffee sugar combination, and Ihad an empty stomach.
(29:56):
So the best thing I could do isfill my stomach with something
hearty, uh, that would like help, um, maintain those glucose
levels and really like justbring equilibrium to my system,
um, and sit for a bit right, um.
And you know, another lessonfrom that was I don't think I
really could explain that to mybest friend.
(30:17):
And also it's, it's embarrassing, right, it's embarrassing you
don't want to talk about it.
Yeah, you don't want to talkabout it, and it's like you feel
like, oh, a little bit of sugarand coffee, and now you're like
not able to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Because people don't understand Until the they say
until you walk in a man's shoe,you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
And my best friend, like she has her own
neurodivergence and she is veryunderstanding.
But even then, like even withthe people you know and
understand it.
Just it takes you a bit toadmit, and I think mania is my
most like my depression I don'treally get embarrassed about for
some reason I guess, it's likemore understood.
It's more like every you knoweveryone's depression, whatever
um mania, is just like it's.
(30:58):
I mean it's characterized in away that's very uh.
Yeah, I mean you're gonna feela different way about that yeah,
people think, oh, that's acrazy person yeah, yeah, you're
the one in the middle of thestreet screaming um, so I, you
know.
So I was like trying she was,you know, trying to get
everywhere on time and we werekind of running late because I
was like I need to get food andshe's like can we just eat later
(31:20):
.
I was like, no, I need food nowand I wasn't really explaining
why, um and so then we had tolike kind of, you know, debrief
that later.
And then I had to explainmyself and she was like, oh my
God, if I knew that, like itwould have been very different.
I'm like, I know, I'm wellaware, I'm sorry, like, but that
was hard and again, we weretotally fine within that
conversation.
(31:40):
But you just lessons that thatwhole day was a big lesson,
right Of like.
Okay, I have to be careful whatI put in my body I have to be
careful, but also I have to bereally willing to be
communicative and vulnerable andhonest and transparent around.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, the ones who deserve it, the ones who are one
who deserve because you knowand that also brings reminders
of the point of being observantof who you are around and who
you allow into your space.
In some instances, if you're inwork and you're going through
life, you can't always controlit- yeah but in, in, in spaces
(32:15):
that you can, you have to bemindful of who you have in your,
in your, in your periphery yeah, no 100, I have one question a
few questions like when you wereon medication, how did that
make you feel?
because you, you function, youwent, you finish your college
(32:37):
degree, you work in, you'redoing all of that.
Yeah.
How did the medicationpositively impact on you being
able to get through that andwhat were they?
Any negative points?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, I think that when you're experiencing
symptoms and you don't know whatthe cause of these symptoms are
I mean, if you're feeling sick,whether it's physical or mental
, right you want an answer.
That's just like human nature,um, mental health.
It kills you, right, cause veryoften it takes a long time to
(33:15):
get those answers and even thenthey could be wrong.
And then it's trial and errorand everything Right.
So it's a it's a hard process,um, but getting it right,
finally getting that diagnosis Imean I've talked about it with
a lot of people it's a goodfeeling.
It's a feeling of I know what'swrong with me, so now there's
hope that we can fix it right.
So I think getting my diagnosisand starting medication
(33:36):
definitely started with thatlike okay, at least there'll be
an answer to my anger, there'llbe an answer to my inability to,
you know, function during theselike large swaths of time where
I'm not able to get out of bedor I'm not able to be productive
.
So I think initially it camewith a lot of relief in that way
(33:56):
.
But then it also comes withwhat happens when it doesn't
work right.
So what happens when thedepression comes back?
What happens when the maniacomes back?
Because did it never was?
I was never a hundred percent?
Um, and it got bad.
You know I was on medicationthe whole time.
You know when, when I got, whenI got really bad in May, and
(34:17):
before that there are severaltimes it got really bad.
Um, I'd broken my ankle.
Oh my god.
That was a whole time.
It was like four months ofrecovery.
I had this huge surgery and it,I mean, that was terrible for so
many reasons but you know thatalso, of course, affected my
mental health, because I had torely on other people and I
wasn't able to be independentand all these things that really
mattered to me, I wasn't ableto do what I was unable to get.
(34:38):
You know, physical exercise andstuff like that, right, or take
care of my dog, um, so it, um.
There's, there's moments where,right, it wasn't the end, all
be all.
And I think now, after I mean,I'm almost I'd say I'm about a
year now of like basically beingfully off it.
I think I took my last pill inFebruary, but at that point I'd
(34:58):
been titrating off for fourmonths, which I did do.
I did like a full four monthsof titrating off my meds.
My meds, um and uh, I neverknew I was actually just staying
.
When I was living in phillythis past three months, I was
staying with my one of my bestfriends from college, who I
(35:18):
lived with in college, um, andis.
We're extremely close.
She knows basically everythingabout me and you know she's seen
me and when I was in college Iwas a straight A student.
I was the head of, like severalclubs.
I had three jobs you were highfunctioning, oh, very high
functioning, very highfunctioning, and she saw me in
these last three months againfully unmedicated for now over a
(35:40):
year, and she's like I havenever seen you this productive
wow she was like you.
It's like scary, how productiveyou are.
She's like like what would ithave been?
She's like what would it havebeen?
I was like, well, I would neverhave been here.
It had to be a hair out of bed,but you know, and she was like
this is kind of crazy.
She's like you are reallykilling it in a way.
(36:01):
I've never seen you kill it Um,which meant a lot, because I
know that she's seen me in all,all areas you know, and she has
seen me be tested a lot in mylife.
And even she was like okay,there, this is different.
Um, and a lot of my friends,you know they have picked up on
and I think I see a lot of mygrowth in what my friends are
(36:21):
telling me and how my myfamily's perceived me Um.
I do a lot of reflection myself,but I think we're all our own
critics Um, and yeah, they'reall like wow, like you are
handling this really stressfulsituation with grace and with
resilience.
Um, and I think when I wasmedicated I don't know, it's
(36:42):
like it's this crutch that cango away at any moment.
Almost that's how I felt thewhole time.
I was like, okay, I have thisthing, but maybe I'll have to go
up, right, maybe have toincrease my dose.
That was always a thing, right.
And then I've had friends andfamily members who are bipolar
and they had to go up to such adegree that it no longer worked
(37:04):
and that was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
For me, that was a terrifying concept, so when
you're on medication, you canget to the point where it no
longer works.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, and then you have to try a different
medication, or um, I mean, it'slike.
I mean not to make a completecomparison, but it's like when
you're an alcoholic right andyour body gets used to the
alcohol.
So, it takes more and more andmore to receive that relaxation
or joy or whatever you'regetting from it Right, it's like
that, um, and so I have had,yeah, like friends and and, um,
(37:37):
family members.
Uh, yeah, get to that point, um,where they have to either
change or figure something out.
You know, and that alwaysterrified me.
The idea of the medication wasalways there, right, to help me,
and the idea that it would nolonger be able to service me in
that way terrified me.
I mean, I spent a lot of mylife as suicidal and I it was
terrifying to think that one dayI wouldn't have the one thing
(38:00):
that that was going to keep mefrom from getting there Right.
So, and that's what it wasRight, and I think that the
medication I again, I was intherapy and that was really
important, but I think in someways it got me through a lot of
hard times.
A lot of hard times it did, butthere was a part that
(38:22):
definitely held me back becauseI wasn't as needing these other
other outlets, these other waysto support myself, because I had
the medication.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So I it stunted me, I think, in those areas a little
bit so describe some more to methe last year, during the
process of weaning yourself fromthe medication, what were some
of the support we know you did?
You had the massages and youhad this chinese herbs, etc.
(38:54):
What were some of the othersupport systems?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
that you had, so I also one.
Okay, one thing I probablydon't recommend, but I did it
this way for good reason, formyself.
I didn't tell anybody except mydoctor, um, because, um, you
know, it's actually kind offunny.
I've made this relation a fewtimes, but there's a show called
(39:18):
the gentleman I don't know ifyou're yes, it's really really
good, yes, I love that movie sogood.
And so there's a scene where onethere's.
It's about a family, right, andthey're crazy.
It's a crazy family.
But the sister comes back andthey haven't seen her in a long
time.
It turns out she's pregnant.
She's like fully like eightmonths pregnant and um, they the
(39:40):
brother looks at her oh my god,like why didn't you tell us?
And she's like because I wantit to be my decision, right, and
that was always like a reallybig like I when I watched that I
immediately was like, yes, likesame.
Um, not that I was pregnant,having a pregnancy, but it
really felt like that rightCause, when you're, when you're
going through mental healthillness, when you are
(40:01):
neurodivergent and you tellpeople and you're vulnerable,
which you should, it comes witha lot of things, um, and it
comes with people being scaredfor you and with you, um, and it
comes with people being scaredfor you and with you, and it
comes with people having a lotof opinions on how you should
get through those times and takecare of yourself and what
you're doing right and whatyou're doing wrong.
And I just didn't.
(40:22):
I knew I was being safe becauseI was going to the doctor.
I was reflecting every day, Iwas writing every day.
I was reflecting every day, Iwas writing every day.
One of the things I highlyrecommend is the actual the
iPhone.
I'm sure, like there's otherfunctions and different, like
Android, situations, but theiPhone has a health app and in
(40:42):
the health app there is, youknow, a section where you can
record your feelings every day.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, and it actually prompts you.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Prompts you twice a day.
And what I love about that is,it's not a whole thing where you
can write a bunch.
I think that the max amount ofletters is like 20 or something,
and so you just pick on asliding scale how you're feeling
and you pick a few words.
It gives you a few options forlike, general words of like, why
you're feeling this way, whatyou're feeling, and then it
(41:11):
gives you like a few, like maybeone sentence that you can write
in addition, uh, to give itsome context.
And I was very again,disciplined, very, very
disciplined, and did that everysingle day, um, the minute I
came off my meds, because Ithought it was incredibly
important that if I were goingto do this, I needed data, um,
and I needed to make sure thatit wasn't just and I think,
throughout a lot of my journey Iwas like I think I've been
(41:32):
feeling this way.
I remember going to therapy allthe time being like I think
it's been a good week, andthey're always like write it
down, write it down.
I don't know why somethingwasn't, it wasn't able to do
that, the discipline wasn'tthere um, but for this I was
like okay, if I'm doing this,you know why?
because it was your decision,yeah yeah, yeah and I had it
Right and I had to beindependent and I had to protect
(41:52):
myself and I had to back myself.
And I'm a scientist at heart.
I started my career in cancerresearch and I'm like, ok, I
need the data, I need to makesure that this experiment, I
know what's happening, I knowhow it's working and, yeah, make
sure I was safe, whatever.
And you know, and I kept all mymy support systems I had
(42:18):
friends in school, I would getcoffee.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Oh the more important thing is I was sober.
This is the very important part.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I always forget this part.
Yeah, I fully went sober forthose three months.
Um, so I didn't drink, I didn'tsmoke, I didn't do anything.
Um, because, again, I wastrying to be incredibly
disciplined in what was goinginto my body.
Um, so, even coffee, I drankmatcha mostly for those three
months, even though I was inschool.
Um, I made sure I was beingincredibly careful about what
(42:42):
was going into my body.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Um, because I need it again for science once again
that that that core nutritionalsupport yeah, oh, I also ate a
lot of fish like sardines um,which is good yes, exactly which
a therapist did tell me a longtime ago and again, I just you
know yeahI said okay, I was a lot a week
ago.
(43:04):
I was talking, I had a talk atthe diabetes awareness thing,
and I focus on alzheimer's anddementia and I'm like people yes
, you don't kill yourself likeoh, salmon is so expensive, yeah
, good old sardines, yeah, ithas.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You need that that that, that, that efficient yeah
to to help with your cognitiveand if it's helping your
cognitive, function it does tohelp with your cognitive and if
it's helping your cognitivefunction, it does will help with
stabilizing absolutelyabsolutely, you know, and I and
you know I didn't have a lot ofmoney right, so I was living off
my savings.
So that kind of helped in termsof like overeating right, like
(43:45):
I wasn't overeating because Icouldn't afford to um, which is
a beautiful thing, um.
And yeah, I was in places likeI was traveling a lot because
London was really expensive forrent and I was in school, so I
was already paying for that andI found out pretty quickly that
attendance wasn't mandatory, soI was like okay.
(44:06):
I'm just going to go somewherecheaper.
So I just started traveling tocheaper places.
I went to Greece because I hadmy sister's best friend lives
there, so I was able to staythere for free, um and like,
like cheap hostels.
And also in Greece there'sreally good Mediterranean food
right, so a lot of so manysardines were eaten in Greece.
Uh, I was in Italy, so that wasso much fish.
(44:27):
I ended up going to South Africafor a month, so there was a lot
of fish, sushi there, um, andyou know I just tried to try to
eat local, tried to eat as muchfish as possible and so you?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
you ended up in places where you were not eating
a lot of processed food.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
No, I tried my best.
I tried my best and I cookedand I don't only cook like
traditional, like historically.
Yeah, I do not cook, um, Idon't know why I hated it so
much.
I did, though, and just cooking, like taking the time to cook
like it just slows it down, yeah, and it's cheaper.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Uh, famously you know what's going in your body?
Yeah and and yeah, so onceagain nutrition, nutrition,
nutrition.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And I never I was so picky about fish before this
year Like I never had sushiuntil I was in South Africa.
Like literally, which is acrazy place to try sushi.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
But it was delicious.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
It was really, really good.
I highly recommend, highlyrecommend.
People are sleeping on that.
Um, and like salmon.
I I swore that I would neverlike salmon.
I hated salmon.
I remember growing up my bestfriend, her family, always had
salmon for their dinners andthey'd invite me for the dinners
and I always had to pretend toeat it and, um, like I still
talk about that on there, I'mlike, ah, but now I love it and
(45:44):
now I can cook it and you know,and it's just, I saw you cooking
your salmon?
Yeah, I know, you know, and it'sjust I saw you yeah.
Yeah, I know that's a littleembarrassing, but yeah, I can
usually cook it better than that.
Um, and you know I, yeah, Ijust got really into cooking and
eating a lot of fish and justtrying my best.
You know, I do still write eatat restaurants every once in a
(46:04):
while.
I treat myself, I still, and Ido drink now, right, I have a
you know glass of wine here, andthere um, you know, up to like
three um, but.
I again, I'm just like supercautious about it, right, I'm
not gonna go crazy, because Iknow I'm gonna feel really bad
in the morning and that one youhave built your self-awareness
yeah you have built yourself-awareness, you're building
(46:28):
your self-awareness, so you'rein tune.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
You're self-aware yeah, people don't understand
how much that counts in beingself-aware and being truly
listening to yourself and andstopping and knowing what.
(46:51):
I am very proud of you, thankyou.
I'm so proud of you.
It's, it's um, it's it's it'slisten to your journey and I'm
sure there's so much we could.
I think we could talk for theentire afternoon but, um, one of
the things as it relates tomental health that I discussed
(47:16):
recently.
The episode that I recordedthat hasn't been released was
discussing someone who used ummushroom ios treatment, and this
was not the first time I'vediscussed it with someone, but
her conversation really openedmy eyes to the possibilities of
(47:39):
it for people you know for fortreating treating situation,
because traditionally I've notbeen that person.
I'm the person who advocatecannabis and I still advocate
cannabis.
I'm currently um been writing apaper on cannabis medicine.
You know with yeah to cornellthat you know, when I do serious
(48:02):
stuff I do it with cornell.
Yeah, um, and it's well overdue, but that's because I've just
been busy with everything.
But you know, have you knownanyone or have you tried any of
these and did it have any effect, positively or negatively?
(48:23):
And you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Great question.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I have.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I am from Brooklyn, new York, so cannabis Um yeah, I
mean it has I smoked weed formost of my life.
Um, I think it is incrediblyhelpful in a lot of ways.
Um, I think you know, um Ithink you know small doses um in
(48:57):
like treatment settings, interms of like you're hanging out
, you're relaxed, um you're not,you know, at the amusement park
.
Yeah right, um, you're not atthe movie theater, like you're
not just doing it, whatever, andI think that for a large part
of my life, I probably, um,didn't need to be doing it as
much as I was doing it andbecause you were on medication.
Yeah, also that also that, um,and I actually because I moved
(49:20):
abroad, right You're, I couldn'tget it yeah, um, so, and I
remember, you know, my entirelife I was like I'm not addicted
and I never.
I don't again.
I don't really think itactually can be chemically
addictive, but you know, Idefinitely think in in
retrospect I was dependent on itin a lot of ways and like not
that I did it every daynecessarily, but I needed to
know I could.
So, like I needed it in thehouse, like I needed it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
And again, you know why it?
Speaker 3 (49:43):
it calmed your mania, yeah exactly and and my friend
of my depression.
It just like gave me thislittle bit of out of body, in
the sense that like I wasn't inmy depressed body Right, like I
was able to be lifted a littlebit.
It's also a social thing.
I did do it alone, but veryoften it was with friends.
Again in New York, it's verymuch part of the culture and,
(50:04):
again, I think there are so manygood things about weed.
I also know that a huge part ofmy journey was not smoking it
every day yeah, all things inmoderation yes, all things in
moderation.
It's crazy now because I havesmoked it since um and it's like
like my, tolerance is likenothing uh it's like I it just
(50:26):
because you've been off it, yeah, for a while and your body?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
has cursed it so now, when you do indulge, you don't
want, you don't need much.
And two, because you're nowself-aware and your physical
body and your mental body is intune with what is it?
You've set the intention foryour life.
You've set an intention andyour body and your mind is
(50:53):
flowing with that intention soit stops you from going
overboard absolutely.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
and you know, what I always found when I was on the
medication was I found that Ifelt like you know that uh,
character of like the seal.
I mean he's like carrying allthe plates, all the plates are
turning and he has a ball on hisnose and I often felt I needed
to add to that to feel atequilibrium, which was always a
(51:21):
weird experience and hard toexplain, but it was like
drinking or smoking, like addingto.
It's like when something's kindof off and you just flick it
Right and then all of a suddenit's kind of, you know, rotating
and sink Like.
I was never calm, but I wantedto at least not be like shaking,
I wanted to be like spiralingcorrectly in uniform, which was
(51:44):
all I could hope for, because Ihad so many things going on
inside of me.
That's all I could hope forRight, um and I think you're
right is now that I am socentered and now that I am, from
all of the deep uh work I didwith my healer, but also from
the years and years and years ittook to get here, um, and from
being purged of so much of theshit that was in my body.
(52:07):
Um, now, if I drink, if I smoke, it's like it's the thing
putting me off which is like Ihave never had before, and so
now it's like, oh, I don'treally like that actually, um,
yeah, that's you know, the um,the, the, the episode I'm gonna,
that's pre-recorded.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
That's what she said.
She said after her firsttreatment, she went to four
years, yeah, of of this to getshe was, you know depression.
She was an alcoholic, shesmoked, you name it.
She was, yeah, you name it, andshe lived in hollywood.
So it was, yeah, she said it'snot.
(52:51):
She said it was cold turkeywith the drinking, but it wasn't
cold turkey in the sense thatshe stopped drinking, but the
first drink she had, instead ofher body going, yes, her body
went no bitch, no yeah yeah,literally, and but even with
(53:12):
that, she said it still took hereight months before she took
her last drink because she wasan alcoholic for so long.
But it took even when she sheher body was saying no she was
like this tastes horrible.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, she still went on for another eight months,
yeah, and I feel that because,like, I still smoke right and
again, um, I think I smoked, youknow, like once a month for the
past three months or somethingright, and those three to four
times right, I, I, I didn't likeit really, um, but I kept doing
(53:54):
it Right.
And then I was like, but maybeit will feel good this time, and
you're searching for that RightCause you're like, oh, but it
used to feel so good and it usedto be so relaxing and it used
to be everything I needed.
And then you're like, oh, it'snot there anymore and it sucks
Right, right so you keepsearching for it and I think,
just continuing to do thereflection of like was this fun?
Was this what I wanted?
(54:14):
Was this what I expected?
And now, like I don't thinkthere's a world in which I will
never, I don't think I need tonever smoke weed again as of
right now, but that's it.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Like you really, you get back into it and it's not
the same thing because, again,your chemistry has changed your
body has changed, they're alldrugs yeah you, you, it doesn't
work for everyone for somepeople the use of cannabis as a
as a mental health um to assistpeople coping with mental health
(54:48):
.
It's a tool that's veryvaluable, yeah, but also it's
not for everyone.
No, it's.
It's.
It's what we call bioindividual.
Yeah, exactly.
Everyone is different, yeah, sowhat works for so?
your body chemistry, becauseduring those months I think you
were you were being exposed inyour body to other alternative
(55:11):
music, the chinese medicine andthe massages, and that's a whole
ball game there, oh yeah soyour system got rewired, oh yeah
with that.
And so when you attempted tointroduce what used to work,
yeah, your body was like nah,yeah, you don't need that
(55:31):
anymore.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
In the meantime, there's someone else that the
cannabis can be the perfectsolution and again, I think it
was a was a great tool duringthose years where I needed that
or whatever.
At the time I think I didn'tneed medication and I think that
it was a good way to off again,just put to make it all kind of
work again from time to time.
(55:54):
I think, definitely not the wayI needed it all the time.
But, um, I mean it was a copingmechanism and sometimes you do
need to cope a little bit.
I mean, if you don't have allthe tools that you need and
you're not at the place that youneed to be at, coping is okay.
Coping can be a lifeline, yeah,um, but doing the reflection to
know when it's coping and thenthe reflection to be like do I
need this right now or do I needto do the work right now?
(56:16):
Yeah, right, um, and I thinkeveryone should get to the point
where, hopefully, they're doingthe work most of the time, but
we can all cope a little bithere and there, and that that's
life and that's how we getthrough it.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
That's it, yeah, get through it yeah with kindness,
yeah with kindness and kindnessto yourself.
I think like the main thingthat I took away from this
experience was a very scaryrevelation that I had never
loved myself like for my entirelife until this past year um and
(56:51):
, yeah, like I now very muchlove myself um and I love my
life and although it's sometimesreally hard, and although
sometimes, uh, the environmentis not one that you can choose,
but it's one that's, uh, youknow, created around you.
Um, that's okay, uh, and I feelvery like trust myself.
(57:12):
I trust that I will remainresilient that I will do the
work um and that I will neverlose that love again boom, drop,
mic, mic, drop, boom, boom,boom.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
It is, uh, this has been so good and I'm off here.
We will be continuing our talkand everything, but I think
that's all we have for you.
I hope the conversation hasbeen helpful.
I hope you've learned somethingfrom it.
(57:47):
I know I have, not just as anindividual, but as a
practitioner in the work that Ido with my clients and um, so we
are going to sign off with areminder to take care of
yourself today.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
I hope that you are loving yourself today.
You deserve the love you, sogive away.
I hope you know that you'rebeautiful today.
I am sending love to you frommy heart.
(58:43):
I hope you know that you are awork of art when it feels like
your world is falling apart.
Please remember that you arenever alone exactly we are never
alone.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
As much as we think it sometimes, we are never alone
.
I personally got reminded ofthat yesterday you were never
alone yeah, I was like, oh mygosh, until next time.
This is Chef Lorraine signingoff, and remember you can find
(59:25):
me at the elephant rooms in TCIif you're visiting, I do see.
That's where I practice andit's a practice that covers all
issues related to mental health,physical, you know, mental
health, neurodiversity, um,nutrition, wellness, and there's
(59:45):
someone there with the toolsthat is perfect for your
situation, for you, each by yourindividual need.
So go ahead and live your idlelife until next time when we
continue on this personaljourney that we're all on bye.
When I hear a part of my story, I try to hide in the
glory and spit under the tableso you would never know.
Sometimes I feel like anaccident.
People look on their path and Inever check on the passenger.
They just want the free show.
Yeah, I'm constantly trying tofight something that my eyes
can't see.
My mind and me we don't getalong sometimes and it gets hard
(00:35):
to breathe, but I wouldn'tchange my life and all of the
crushing and burning andbreaking.
I know now If somebody sees melike this Then they won't feel
alone now, hello, hello, mypeeps.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's a rainy, rainy Tuesday morning and that is the
best time to do a podcast,because there's nothing else to
do.
Well, if you have to go to your9 to 5, I get it, but for
someone like me who works fromhome, who have my private
practice, who you know that'sone of the perks.
(01:19):
Mind you, I do work 80 hours aweek, but that's the perk is I
can do something like this on arainy morning and I hope you
like my song.
Selena gomez is my mind and me.
I've always loved that song andit's really in the mood of
today's discussion.
(01:40):
I have my beautiful friendsvisiting Hi, and you know,
october was Mental HealthAwareness Month and I didn't do
a podcast for that.
I did plan one and I recordedit, but I didn't release it and
I think there was a reasonbehind that.
Because here comes thisconversation that I think is
(02:02):
going to be so helpful, so sohelpful, not just because
October was Mental HealthAwareness Month, but you know, I
am in my 50s now and they dosay if you have any episodes of
depression in your life when youhit men menopause, this is so
(02:26):
easy to get triggered and tosink into depression and, if I'm
honest, the last few monthshave been really kind of weird,
to say, to put it mildly for me.
But because of the work that Ido, I know my triggers, I can
feel it coming on.
I'm okay, this is happening.
(02:47):
Let me go do a workout, let mego for a walk, let me play music
, and so this is the episodewhere we're going to be
discussing things related to ourmind, our emotions, and you
know it has so much to do.
You know I'm I'm into nutritionand I was just talking about
(03:08):
primary foods and secondaryfoods and in that terminology,
in the wellness world, primaryfoods relate to our life, or
joys or spirituality, or job orcareers, and all those things do
play a part in our mentalhealth.
And that's our primary food andthen the secondary food.
(03:31):
Secondary food are the thingswe eat every day.
You know, the healthiest stuff,the unhealthiest of the
processed foods, the unprocessedfoods.
You know we'll talk about thatanother day, not today, not
today.
Today we're sticking to primerfoods and mainly our emotional
mind or well everything, becausemental health it, it touches
(03:54):
all of our lives, orspirituality or job, or careers
or relationships, everything.
So we're in real primary foodterritory so I'm gonna let my
friend introduce herself in away that she whatever she wants
to tell you about herself if shedoesn't want to tell you her
name, she doesn't have to tellyour name.
Mind your own business.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So I love the uh, the caveat there.
Um, my name is Tara.
I'm from Brooklyn, new YorkShout out Brooklyn and I have
journeyed to Turks and Caicos,to this beautiful land of
Lorraine's.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
She's at Eitel Retreat TCI.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes, the most beautiful place to go and to
truly retreat from whatever yourwoes are or if you just need to
rejuvenate, for whatever reason.
Yeah, I've been on my mentalhealth journey for I don't know,
I guess my whole life, butprobably seriously, the last 10
(04:58):
years, yeah, and I'm just sograteful to be here and talking
to Lorraine and all of you aboutwhat I've learned and what I
have yet to learn.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So while we were here , you know, tara shared with me
about the fact that and that shewas diagnosed with bipolar,
that she was diagnosed withbipolar, and I would never have
guessed it, and that started aconversation about her journey
(05:35):
living with bipolar and Inoticed I did not say the word
disease because it's just aliving condition.
It is what it is, and she isamazing and stunning and
beautiful and brilliant, and soit reminded me of the fact that
we really don't know people justby looking at them.
(05:58):
Health is such a sometimes aninvisible situation and that you
know, I always stress, you knowI'm always talking about just
be kind, be kind, just be kind,just be a kind human.
It's so important.
It goes a long way.
And I say kind, not good andnot nice, because nice people
(06:24):
and good people, uh no, you canbe nice and be a horrible person
because you're just nice forthe show, and you can be good
but not kind, and so that's.
I always stress about kindness.
But tara shared with me aboutthe fact that she made a
(06:46):
decision to to relieve herselffrom pharmaceutical medication
and I'm meeting her in this in astate where she is
non-medicated, and so we Iwanted to talk to her about what
(07:06):
that journey was like, whatwent into making that decision,
where did you go for the?
Where did you go, what was theprocess, what was the experience
like and how is life after?
So I'm going to turn it over toTara for a little bit and let
her share her story.
(07:27):
We're going to hold space forher and I know this conversation
is going to help someone, asthat's what we're here to do.
We exist in the world to shareour gifts, and our gifts could
be our life experiences thatcould help someone heal, and so
(07:47):
that's what Tara is going to dofor us.
I'm sure I'm going to learn somuch from it as well, in a not
just as a practitioner, but alsoas someone who struggles with
mental health issues every nowand again.
You know it's a constantprocess and we just have to work
at it.
So, without much delay, myfriend Tara is gonna take it
(08:09):
from here oh, what a beautiful,beautiful segue.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Um, yeah, I started, I I guess, taking from the
beginning.
I started experiencing, youknow, depression, anxiety, anger
, a lot, a lot of anger.
Uh, when I was about 12 yearsold.
Um, I was pretty young, it'sright when you get through
puberty, so it makes a lot ofsense.
(08:35):
Um, the world was changing, uh,I was changing, and I was not
best suited at that time to takecare of myself, as a lot of 12
year olds are not, and so Istarted acting out a lot.
I was not, you know, the bestchild to my mother, I think at
(08:58):
that time.
But you know, I think I wastrying to cope and get through
those emotions without the bestmechanisms in front of me.
And so I didn't really starttreating my mental health issues
until I was in high school.
I'm from a family, I'm from anIrish family.
(09:20):
We do not, or at leasthistorically we do not, uh, talk
about our mental health verymuch.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
We are strong because we are strong as a, as a as a
chocolate woman myself.
What is with that?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, oh yeah, we are resilient.
We can do it ourselves.
Um, we'll get over.
It is just you know um.
You know, someone else hassuffered worse someone else, and
we've all conquered that.
Right so yeah, we didn't reallytalk about it in my family and
so I did not feel at the timethat I would get support from my
(10:00):
family, so I have been ababysitter my entire life.
I was always babysitting kidsand that's how I made an income
from a really young age.
So I was able to afford atherapist out of pocket.
Whoa, yeah, because I wasscared that the insurance would
show up on my healthcare accountthat my mom obviously had in
(10:22):
her name and then my familywould know I was going to
therapy healthcare account thatmy mom obviously had in her name
and then my family would know Iwas going to therapy.
So, yeah, I started by going tothis therapist.
Uh, I was thinking I was like16 or 17.
She was like 150 bucks for asession, which is crazy.
Uh, it's very normal now, butit was crazy.
Then it was just like the bestsolution I had.
(10:42):
I thought, and I actually had areally terrible time.
She forgot everything I toldher the second time I went in.
It was like the first time Ihad really opened up and been
honest about a lot of things.
I was feeling, um, yeah, it wasa really bad experience for my
first time.
um, and that stunted me a bit um, um, because I was just, you
(11:04):
know, I was young, I was likethis is it, this is what therapy
is.
I, you know, I didn't know thatshe had really bad reviews on
the internet, right, I didn'tknow how to do that research.
So that was kind of my wholeworld.
When it came to therapy, I waslike, okay, this is not the
solution.
I'm just going to go back totaking care of myself Like I.
(11:26):
Go back to taking care ofmyself like I, maybe I don't
need this, maybe this isn't theway, um, and so I attempted to
do that for several more years,um until I was in college.
My freshman year of college, Ihad a really, really hard time,
um.
And then I ended uptransferring to a new school, my
sophomore year, um, which wasgreat, because freshman year was
definitely not.
Uh and there they had free,like college counseling um which
(11:48):
again didn't go throughinsurance.
So again I was like, okay, I canget healthcare from like a
licensed, like someone who'sreal, someone who knows what
they're doing, but also, itwon't, you know, there'll be no
evidence of it.
Um, and that is where I met anamazing therapist who truly did,
uh, change my life in a lot ofways and really started me on my
(12:10):
journey.
Um, and it was that year Ithink it was about 20 at that
point that I was diagnosed withbipolar disorder.
Um, and I started medication.
Um, and that the way I wasdiagnosed was through trial and
error, by medication.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, yeah, Idon't know if this is.
You know truly what should behappening.
(12:31):
But, yeah, they put me.
They were like, okay, you havedepression, they put me on
medication for that, and thenthat didn't really work and they
tried a few other ones, andthen they put me on I think it
was like Prozac, and they werelike my reaction to Prozac was
so bad, um, that made me worse.
And I go, oh, that must meanthat you're bipolar and
(12:51):
therefore you need moodstabilizer.
And that's how they theydiagnosed me.
I mean, of course, it was likeon top of like other symptoms, I
suppose.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Um, I do you know, I think I agree with that
diagnosis, um, or whatever thatmeans for a group of symptoms.
Anyway, that's how theydiagnosed me and that's how they
put me on mood stabilizers.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And for eight years I was on a concoction of mood
stabilizers and anti psychoticswhich they often kind of couple
with the mood stabilizer forwhatever scientific reason they
they have.
And it was, it was good.
Uh, it was.
You know, it was important forme to do that.
(13:30):
Uh, definitely, during thosepoints in my life where I
couldn't support myself in otherways, I didn't have the
emotional bandwidth or someonejust like I mean I was younger,
I wasn't able to be independentin a lot of the ways, I wasn't
able to make decisions all thetime, that were, you know,
solely based on what I needed.
And I and I just I mean I alsowas doing therapy throughout
(13:51):
that whole thing, off and on,and that was incredibly helpful
to me to kind of realize,reflect on and know myself a bit
better so that I can makedecisions for myself as I aged
and became a real human, makedecisions for myself as I aged
and became a real human.
Um, and you know I still hadups and downs, um, that that's,
(14:11):
you know, par for the course.
And I, again, I do think beingon medication was incredibly
important, um, for my journey,for a lot of people's journeys,
um, but I, um, but I I've alwayssaid I think it was like may
2023, so over a year ago now,almost two.
Uh, I had like the worst downI'd had in a really, really long
(14:36):
time.
I ended up having to go on fmlaright, which is where you take
like a break from it's a it's aus law that, where you take a
break from the US law, that youcan take a break from your job
for about two to three months Ifyou're experiencing mental
health illness.
You can also do it if, like youhave a sick family member or
something it's called the.
Family Medical Leave Act.
(14:56):
It's a great opportunity.
It's not paid all the time.
I'm almost positive mine wasnot paid.
Paid all the time.
I'm almost positive mine wasnot paid.
Um, sometimes it can be, but,um, I was able to, you know,
take two months off without fearof losing my job.
Like they wouldn't be able toyou know, uh, fire me as a
result of that.
So I did.
(15:16):
My boss was amazing during thetime.
Oh my God, marta, we love her.
Um, and she was supersupportive the whole time.
I was working at Housing Works,which is a health clinic
organization advocacy group thathelps folks, oh, okay that's
great yeah and they help folkswith mental health issues and
just it's a healthcare clinic sothey do everything but focusing
on LGBTQ folks and underinsuredfolks.
(15:39):
So that was great that, like Iwas in that kind of work
environment, I was supersupportive.
My boss is amazing.
So, yes, I took those twomonths off.
Um but, yeah, it really wasn'tgetting better until, honestly,
I I was also, you know, tryingto figure out what next cause
this just wasn't working, what,what I was doing in my life
(16:00):
wasn't working, um, and so Ireally felt most, most.
A lot of my family lives inIreland.
I have traveled to Ireland forevery year almost my entire life
um, and I've been.
I love traveling.
I love the idea of beingindependent.
I travel alone a lot, um.
I've done a lot of solo trips,um, and it brings me a lot of
(16:20):
joy and stability to beindependent in that way and
knowing that if things hit thefan, like I have to rely on
myself, yeah, um, and so I wasreally having this itching to go
abroad to live somewhere elseon my own, um, and I was
(16:41):
applying to jobs and a lot ofthe jobs I was looking at really
needed a master's degree.
So I was like, ok, maybe I cancouple these two things.
And I applied to go to schoolat the University College London
and it was in what?
June I found out that I got in.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So, although I was like, or maybe July.
And although I was like, ormaybe July, so it was like I was
in the worst part of my lifebut there was this, like you
know, shining light that wascoming in Something was
functioning.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes, your emotional and your mental was low, but
your career and that was, theopportunities were there and it
was just something to hope for.
And a lot of the time, I think,through my mental health
journey, like I have always, youknow, tried to have something
to hope for, something in thefuture that I plan for, so that
there's always again that thinglike okay, well, at least I'm,
(17:35):
you know, and a lot of it hasbeen travel, because travel
brings me so much joy and um andeverything.
So this was yeah a beautifulcoupling of that Um, and things
were definitely.
You know, at least I had thathope again, which I really was
hopeless for for quite a quite awhile at that point, um, which
(17:55):
was always the scariest part ofmental illness, right?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's when.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
That's when the alarm bells ring and you're like okay
, well, let's, let's figure thisone out, um, because without
hope you're not doing well.
Um, and oh yeah, and at thatpoint, like I think it was like
june, they also put me on um ananti-anxiety.
So I was on those three meds Iwas on anti-anxiety, a mood
(18:21):
stabilizer and an antipsychotic.
And because of all this,lorraine, I almost missed the
most important part.
My body was starting to likedeteriorate.
So I had gained a lot of weightwhich I had never had weight on
me my whole life.
I just am very much geneticallyblessed in that way and I was
always active and I was alwaysalways like a kid playing soccer
(18:44):
and stuff, um and so like,really the first time in my life
I had, like you know, 50 poundson me, um, which feels like a
lot when you're holding that um,and you know, I mean ego and
self-esteem and everything rightwhen that goes down, yeah, yeah
it's just you really have to re.
Yeah, it's stupid.
(19:04):
It's the world we live in, butit's real um and it really, um,
affected how I saw myself andhow other people people do treat
you different and they do it's.
It's a weird feeling, um, andso it had a lot of weight on me.
And then also my gosh was veryfunny.
One day I was sitting next tomy mom on the couch.
She's just like on the otherside of the couch and she
screams and she's looking at meand she's screaming and I think
(19:26):
there's like a bug on me or likesomething's great, the crawling
all over me.
I'm like, oh my god, get it off, get it off.
She grabs my hair and she'slike, looking through my hair,
I'm like, oh my god, there'ssomething in my hair.
And she's like, oh my god, whatis this?
And she's found a bald spotthat's like bigger than a
quarter in my hair that likesomehow none of us realized
before this moment.
(19:46):
Of course, it's going to be yourmom to realize you have a bald
spot, um, and you know it wasscary.
It was scary because it's likewhat would cause that why?
Would that be happening?
Um, I don't know.
You start going to all thecrazy things.
It could be right, um, and so Igo to a doctor and that's when I
find out I have hypothyroidismso my thyroid is basically just
(20:09):
like clunked out, um, and I hadto start a thyroid medication.
Oh yeah, yeah, so that that waslike a whole thing, and the
thyroid med did help.
Um, I didn't really lose any ofthe weight, but my hair did
grow back.
Thank, god um and I Now fastforward, so I'm on those three
meds for my brain, but then Ialso am on a thyroid med for my
(20:31):
body, and let me tell you whenthis happened.
You know we love Google, welove WebMD right, so I'm.
Googling, I'm like, oh my God,what could this be?
Like no one else in my familyhas this, but all the doctors
are saying you're a woman.
So many women have this.
Because I'm like when, when Igoogle it, there's a few
(20:53):
articles that are like, oh um,lithium, which is one of the
mood stabilizers I was on, itcould cause this, um, but then I
said that to my doctors.
I was like, is there any waythis could be a result of my
medication?
They're like no, that's so rare.
That's definitely not it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's because you're a woman oh, the curse of curse of
being a woman.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
They're like does anyone inyour family have it?
I was like no, they're like Idon't know.
And I was like, okay, oh, thisdoesn't feel right, but they're
doctors.
Who am I?
Just a feeble woman?
So I am just going to take thisman and continue my life, um,
so that's how I leave thecountry.
Uh, that's how I leave.
(21:29):
Uh, this is about, yeah, youknow, a little over a year ago
now, um and I land in London, um, and I did have some family in
London, um, I had an aunt and acousin who lived there, uh, who
was pretty close with growing up, um, so I was able to stay
there off and on, um, but it wasvery much, you know, you know,
(21:52):
supporting myself, living off mysavings, um, and going to
school, which was always a bitof a trigger for me, um, but I,
you know, more than anything, Ijust felt, I felt happy that I
left the anxiety definitelyreduced.
Like I stopped grinding my teethas much I just.
(22:12):
I mean, I used to grind.
I'm already grinding back tobeing in the United States for
like a few days um, you know,just like little things.
It was getting better.
Um, and then I, you know, I hadother issues happening, like
acid reflux was like really abig problem which again never
had before, like the last year.
And then I had oh my god, Iforgot it's called it's called
(22:34):
like pill dysphagia or something.
It's basically when you takepills it's really hard to
swallow.
Oh my like it's incrediblydifficult.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
The body was telling you oh yeah, enough oh yeah, oh
yeah, my body said we're doneyeah your body, your body was
screaming out to you oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
And I think I finally was in a place where I could
hear it Right.
And so, and it's you know and Ido not recommend this to you.
Know the listener, who, whodoesn't have?
All the things that I had inplace during this time the
listener, who doesn't have allthe things that I had in place
during this time.
But I would listen to my bodyand I did slowly because it was
physically almost impossible toswallow.
(23:15):
I slowly stopped taking my medswhich again not not good for
generally speaking?
But, at the same time I startedseeing.
It was actually quite random,but I went in for a massage I've
always used massage as a formof self-care and retreat and I
(23:36):
there was a masseuse in the areawho actually ended up being a
traditional Chinese medicalhealer that I just randomly
signed up for Like I just kindof like hole in the wall
situation I go in and I did not.
I kept just going for like sixmonths.
I mean, these people changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
And this is where you know.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Traditional medicine, traditional, yes, holistic
treatment of your body.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Oh, yes, and they were the ones also who were
encouraging.
You know they're like youshould stop taking these
medications, like we will.
You know, take ownership ofthat, we will make sure you know
.
They gave me herbs to help thetransition.
Um, and they we did intense,very painful, intense, uh
massage therapy for twice a weekfor about six months.
(24:24):
Um, and that, like, coupledwith coming off the meds
completely, um, truly.
I think was like the last thingI needed to do for for now,
right In my healing journey.
Every day, you have to continueto reflect and see what you
need.
But in terms of being able tocome off my meds and be, you
(24:45):
know, resilient with the toolsin front of me and not
pharmaceuticals.
That was kind of the last thingI needed to do.
Yeah, it was amazing.
I you know it wasn't easy.
Nothing is easy and still thereare days.
you know you make it sound easy,but no it's not, it was not, it
was not and it was probably notfun, no, no, there are so many
(25:08):
days where, you know, I mean, Iwas traveling a lot of it alone,
you know, in different places,where sometimes I didn't speak
the language and it was lonely,and I was on time zones where I
couldn't even call my friendsbecause they'd be asleep when I
was awake, and vice versa.
And you know, you just, I hadto learn a lot of things, um,
(25:36):
and the first one being, um,routine and discipline.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, and that is what kills us.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh yeah, routine and discipline.
Oh yeah, cause, trust me, likelately I've been like I'm going
to, I'm going to get up everymorning.
I'm going to go on theelliptical, then do some weight
training just because at thisage you're supposed to build
muscle.
You don't need to do a lot ofcardio, but you need to build
muscle and I'm telling youhonestly, sometimes if I get
(26:02):
four days in, it's good.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, yeah and you gotta own that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
You have to celebrate that as well if you get four
days in and then there are weekswhen I don't get any days in,
like, yeah, for the last sevendays I've got no days in.
Yeah, the most I've done is mytapping yeah in my, at my
meridians, okay to do to helpwith lymphatic drainage but
self-care and discipline is soimportant, which is hard if you
(26:29):
are going through a mentalhealth drought yeah, if you're
in a situation where your moodis low and thing, it's hard to
have that focus and discipline.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And it's only when you, after you've been working
on yourself yourself some a bit,and you're able to see the
triggers and see the sign there,you go like, oh no, no, no, no,
no, no.
Why am I doing this, why am Idoing that?
And you, you start to do thingsthat you know will help yeah
but routine and discipline yeah,no, they're so important.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
They're so important and you, I don't think I was
ever good at them before thelast year, to be honest.
I mean I.
I mean I even things like youknow and also like deep
reflection, right, and likereally holding space for
(27:28):
reflection and checking in withyour body, right.
So for a long time, noticing mydepression was always easy, I
feel like, for me anyway, right,it was like okay, you know.
I'm seeping into hopelessness.
Right, I don't have a lot ofenergy.
I'm feeling really sensitive.
You know all these things I waslike okay, I'm definitely on
the verge of being depressed, orI'm fully there.
(27:49):
Um, that was always simple forme, but the mania was always
really, really hard for me tonotice, um, and you know I'd be
doing, you know impulsive thingsand acting out of character,
and wouldn't notice it untillike a weekend or you know,
until I did something that maybehurt someone's feelings or hurt
(28:10):
my own feelings, or you know,yeah, I made a choice that
wasn't the most healthy, um, butnow you know, in this last year
, I was able to start noticingmy anemia like hours before it
even hit.
Um, wow, which was?
You feel the changes?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
in your yeah, which is true.
You know that's something thatyou don't.
That you feel the changes inyour, which is true.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
You know that's something that you don't that
you feel the changes in yourbody?
Oh, yeah, you do.
If you listen, if you sit, ifyou sit, you listen.
Uh, you do, you feel them, um,and I you know, and and not only
I'm at the point where I canfeel them, but now almost I'd
say you know 80% of the time,90% of the time, I can actually
associate it with something,right?
(28:51):
So, um, for instance, I my,really my one of my best friends
, uh, came to Italy with me, um,and for my birthday, uh, this
past year, and we were sittingand I had coffee that morning,
and generally I have milk in mycoffee, um, and there was no
milk, so I do drink black coffee, so I don't know why I did this
(29:13):
this morning, but I was like oh, I don't want it to just be
black.
So I'm gonna put a little bit ofsugar in it and, um, I don't.
I don't really like the tasteof sugar in my coffee,
especially not there's milk init, like that's just.
It tastes like dessert and Idon't need that, um, but I did I
put sugar in my coffee and Ihad an empty stomach Right, and
within an hour I felt souncomfortable, I felt like I was
(29:36):
crawling out of my skin, like Ifelt trapped, I was irritable,
I was really um, but Iimmediately knew, like, okay, I
did something, something likeI'm about to have mania, and I
knew that, like, more thanlikely, it was because of this
coffee sugar combination, and Ihad an empty stomach.
(29:56):
So the best thing I could do isfill my stomach with something
hearty, uh, that would like help, um, maintain those glucose
levels and really like justbring equilibrium to my system,
um, and sit for a bit right, um.
And you know, another lessonfrom that was I don't think I
really could explain that to mybest friend.
(30:17):
And also it's, it's embarrassing, right, it's embarrassing you
don't want to talk about it.
Yeah, you don't want to talkabout it, and it's like you feel
like, oh, a little bit of sugarand coffee, and now you're like
not able to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Because people don't understand Until the they say
until you walk in a man's shoe,you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
And my best friend, like she has her own
neurodivergence and she is veryunderstanding.
But even then, like even withthe people you know and
understand it.
Just it takes you a bit toadmit, and I think mania is my
most like my depression I don'treally get embarrassed about for
some reason I guess, it's likemore understood.
It's more like every you knoweveryone's depression, whatever
um mania, is just like it's.
(30:58):
I mean it's characterized in away that's very uh.
Yeah, I mean you're gonna feela different way about that yeah,
people think, oh, that's acrazy person yeah, yeah, you're
the one in the middle of thestreet screaming um, so I, you
know.
So I was like trying she was,you know, trying to get
everywhere on time and we werekind of running late because I
was like I need to get food andshe's like can we just eat later
(31:20):
.
I was like, no, I need food nowand I wasn't really explaining
why, um and so then we had tolike kind of, you know, debrief
that later.
And then I had to explainmyself and she was like, oh my
God, if I knew that, like itwould have been very different.
I'm like, I know, I'm wellaware, I'm sorry, like, but that
was hard and again, we weretotally fine within that
conversation.
(31:40):
But you just lessons that thatwhole day was a big lesson,
right Of like.
Okay, I have to be careful whatI put in my body I have to be
careful, but also I have to bereally willing to be
communicative and vulnerable andhonest and transparent around.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, the ones who deserve it, the ones who are one
who deserve because you knowand that also brings reminders
of the point of being observantof who you are around and who
you allow into your space.
In some instances, if you're inwork and you're going through
life, you can't always controlit- yeah but in, in, in spaces
(32:15):
that you can, you have to bemindful of who you have in your,
in your, in your periphery yeah, no 100, I have one question a
few questions like when you wereon medication, how did that
make you feel?
because you, you function, youwent, you finish your college
(32:37):
degree, you work in, you'redoing all of that.
Yeah.
How did the medicationpositively impact on you being
able to get through that andwhat were they?
Any negative points?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, I think that when you're experiencing
symptoms and you don't know whatthe cause of these symptoms are
I mean, if you're feeling sick,whether it's physical or mental
, right you want an answer.
That's just like human nature,um, mental health.
It kills you, right, cause veryoften it takes a long time to
(33:15):
get those answers and even thenthey could be wrong.
And then it's trial and errorand everything Right.
So it's a it's a hard process,um, but getting it right,
finally getting that diagnosis Imean I've talked about it with
a lot of people it's a goodfeeling.
It's a feeling of I know what'swrong with me, so now there's
hope that we can fix it right.
So I think getting my diagnosisand starting medication
(33:36):
definitely started with thatlike okay, at least there'll be
an answer to my anger, there'llbe an answer to my inability to,
you know, function during theselike large swaths of time where
I'm not able to get out of bedor I'm not able to be productive
.
So I think initially it camewith a lot of relief in that way
(33:56):
.
But then it also comes withwhat happens when it doesn't
work right.
So what happens when thedepression comes back?
What happens when the maniacomes back?
Because did it never was?
I was never a hundred percent?
Um, and it got bad.
You know I was on medicationthe whole time.
You know when, when I got, whenI got really bad in May, and
(34:17):
before that there are severaltimes it got really bad.
Um, I'd broken my ankle.
Oh my god.
That was a whole time.
It was like four months ofrecovery.
I had this huge surgery and it,I mean, that was terrible for so
many reasons but you know thatalso, of course, affected my
mental health, because I had torely on other people and I
wasn't able to be independentand all these things that really
mattered to me, I wasn't ableto do what I was unable to get.
(34:38):
You know, physical exercise andstuff like that, right, or take
care of my dog, um, so it, um.
There's, there's moments where,right, it wasn't the end, all
be all.
And I think now, after I mean,I'm almost I'd say I'm about a
year now of like basically beingfully off it.
I think I took my last pill inFebruary, but at that point I'd
(34:58):
been titrating off for fourmonths, which I did do.
I did like a full four monthsof titrating off my meds.
My meds, um and uh, I neverknew I was actually just staying
.
When I was living in phillythis past three months, I was
staying with my one of my bestfriends from college, who I
(35:18):
lived with in college, um, andis.
We're extremely close.
She knows basically everythingabout me and you know she's seen
me and when I was in college Iwas a straight A student.
I was the head of, like severalclubs.
I had three jobs you were highfunctioning, oh, very high
functioning, very highfunctioning, and she saw me in
these last three months againfully unmedicated for now over a
(35:40):
year, and she's like I havenever seen you this productive
wow she was like you.
It's like scary, how productiveyou are.
She's like like what would ithave been?
She's like what would it havebeen?
I was like, well, I would neverhave been here.
It had to be a hair out of bed,but you know, and she was like
this is kind of crazy.
She's like you are reallykilling it in a way.
(36:01):
I've never seen you kill it Um,which meant a lot, because I
know that she's seen me in all,all areas you know, and she has
seen me be tested a lot in mylife.
And even she was like okay,there, this is different.
Um, and a lot of my friends,you know they have picked up on
and I think I see a lot of mygrowth in what my friends are
(36:21):
telling me and how my myfamily's perceived me Um.
I do a lot of reflection myself,but I think we're all our own
critics Um, and yeah, they'reall like wow, like you are
handling this really stressfulsituation with grace and with
resilience.
Um, and I think when I wasmedicated I don't know, it's
(36:42):
like it's this crutch that cango away at any moment.
Almost that's how I felt thewhole time.
I was like, okay, I have thisthing, but maybe I'll have to go
up, right, maybe have toincrease my dose.
That was always a thing, right.
And then I've had friends andfamily members who are bipolar
and they had to go up to such adegree that it no longer worked
(37:04):
and that was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
For me, that was a terrifying concept, so when
you're on medication, you canget to the point where it no
longer works.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah, and then you have to try a different
medication, or um, I mean, it'slike.
I mean not to make a completecomparison, but it's like when
you're an alcoholic right andyour body gets used to the
alcohol.
So, it takes more and more andmore to receive that relaxation
or joy or whatever you'regetting from it Right, it's like
that, um, and so I have had,yeah, like friends and and, um,
(37:37):
family members.
Uh, yeah, get to that point, um,where they have to either
change or figure something out.
You know, and that alwaysterrified me.
The idea of the medication wasalways there, right, to help me,
and the idea that it would nolonger be able to service me in
that way terrified me.
I mean, I spent a lot of mylife as suicidal and I it was
terrifying to think that one dayI wouldn't have the one thing
(38:00):
that that was going to keep mefrom from getting there Right.
So, and that's what it wasRight, and I think that the
medication I again, I was intherapy and that was really
important, but I think in someways it got me through a lot of
hard times.
A lot of hard times it did, butthere was a part that
(38:22):
definitely held me back becauseI wasn't as needing these other
other outlets, these other waysto support myself, because I had
the medication.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So I it stunted me, I think, in those areas a little
bit so describe some more to methe last year, during the
process of weaning yourself fromthe medication, what were some
of the support we know you did?
You had the massages and youhad this chinese herbs, etc.
(38:54):
What were some of the othersupport systems?
Speaker 3 (38:57):
that you had, so I also one.
Okay, one thing I probablydon't recommend, but I did it
this way for good reason, formyself.
I didn't tell anybody except mydoctor, um, because, um, you
know, it's actually kind offunny.
I've made this relation a fewtimes, but there's a show called
(39:18):
the gentleman I don't know ifyou're yes, it's really really
good, yes, I love that movie sogood.
And so there's a scene where onethere's.
It's about a family, right, andthey're crazy.
It's a crazy family.
But the sister comes back andthey haven't seen her in a long
time.
It turns out she's pregnant.
She's like fully like eightmonths pregnant and um, they the
(39:40):
brother looks at her oh my god,like why didn't you tell us?
And she's like because I wantit to be my decision, right, and
that was always like a reallybig like I when I watched that I
immediately was like, yes, likesame.
Um, not that I was pregnant,having a pregnancy, but it
really felt like that rightCause, when you're, when you're
going through mental healthillness, when you are
(40:01):
neurodivergent and you tellpeople and you're vulnerable,
which you should, it comes witha lot of things, um, and it
comes with people being scaredfor you and with you, um, and it
comes with people being scaredfor you and with you, and it
comes with people having a lotof opinions on how you should
get through those times and takecare of yourself and what
you're doing right and whatyou're doing wrong.
And I just didn't.
(40:22):
I knew I was being safe becauseI was going to the doctor.
I was reflecting every day, Iwas writing every day.
I was reflecting every day, Iwas writing every day.
One of the things I highlyrecommend is the actual the
iPhone.
I'm sure, like there's otherfunctions and different, like
Android, situations, but theiPhone has a health app and in
(40:42):
the health app there is, youknow, a section where you can
record your feelings every day.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, and it actually prompts you.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Prompts you twice a day.
And what I love about that is,it's not a whole thing where you
can write a bunch.
I think that the max amount ofletters is like 20 or something,
and so you just pick on asliding scale how you're feeling
and you pick a few words.
It gives you a few options forlike, general words of like, why
you're feeling this way, whatyou're feeling, and then it
(41:11):
gives you like a few, like maybeone sentence that you can write
in addition, uh, to give itsome context.
And I was very again,disciplined, very, very
disciplined, and did that everysingle day, um, the minute I
came off my meds, because Ithought it was incredibly
important that if I were goingto do this, I needed data, um,
and I needed to make sure thatit wasn't just and I think,
throughout a lot of my journey Iwas like I think I've been
(41:32):
feeling this way.
I remember going to therapy allthe time being like I think
it's been a good week, andthey're always like write it
down, write it down.
I don't know why somethingwasn't, it wasn't able to do
that, the discipline wasn'tthere um, but for this I was
like okay, if I'm doing this,you know why?
because it was your decision,yeah yeah, yeah and I had it
Right and I had to beindependent and I had to protect
(41:52):
myself and I had to back myself.
And I'm a scientist at heart.
I started my career in cancerresearch and I'm like, ok, I
need the data, I need to makesure that this experiment, I
know what's happening, I knowhow it's working and, yeah, make
sure I was safe, whatever.
And you know, and I kept all mymy support systems I had
(42:18):
friends in school, I would getcoffee.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Oh the more important thing is I was sober.
This is the very important part.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I always forget this part.
Yeah, I fully went sober forthose three months.
Um, so I didn't drink, I didn'tsmoke, I didn't do anything.
Um, because, again, I wastrying to be incredibly
disciplined in what was goinginto my body.
Um, so, even coffee, I drankmatcha mostly for those three
months, even though I was inschool.
Um, I made sure I was beingincredibly careful about what
(42:42):
was going into my body.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Um, because I need it again for science once again
that that that core nutritionalsupport yeah, oh, I also ate a
lot of fish like sardines um,which is good yes, exactly which
a therapist did tell me a longtime ago and again, I just you
know yeahI said okay, I was a lot a week
ago.
(43:04):
I was talking, I had a talk atthe diabetes awareness thing,
and I focus on alzheimer's anddementia and I'm like people yes
, you don't kill yourself likeoh, salmon is so expensive, yeah
, good old sardines, yeah, ithas.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You need that that that, that, that efficient yeah
to to help with your cognitiveand if it's helping your
cognitive, function it does tohelp with your cognitive and if
it's helping your cognitivefunction, it does will help with
stabilizing absolutelyabsolutely, you know, and I and
you know I didn't have a lot ofmoney right, so I was living off
my savings.
So that kind of helped in termsof like overeating right, like
(43:45):
I wasn't overeating because Icouldn't afford to um, which is
a beautiful thing, um.
And yeah, I was in places likeI was traveling a lot because
London was really expensive forrent and I was in school, so I
was already paying for that andI found out pretty quickly that
attendance wasn't mandatory, soI was like okay.
(44:06):
I'm just going to go somewherecheaper.
So I just started traveling tocheaper places.
I went to Greece because I hadmy sister's best friend lives
there, so I was able to staythere for free, um and like,
like cheap hostels.
And also in Greece there'sreally good Mediterranean food
right, so a lot of so manysardines were eaten in Greece.
Uh, I was in Italy, so that wasso much fish.
(44:27):
I ended up going to South Africafor a month, so there was a lot
of fish, sushi there, um, andyou know I just tried to try to
eat local, tried to eat as muchfish as possible and so you?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
you ended up in places where you were not eating
a lot of processed food.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
No, I tried my best.
I tried my best and I cookedand I don't only cook like
traditional, like historically.
Yeah, I do not cook, um, Idon't know why I hated it so
much.
I did, though, and just cooking, like taking the time to cook
like it just slows it down, yeah, and it's cheaper.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Uh, famously you know what's going in your body?
Yeah and and yeah, so onceagain nutrition, nutrition,
nutrition.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And I never I was so picky about fish before this
year Like I never had sushiuntil I was in South Africa.
Like literally, which is acrazy place to try sushi.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
But it was delicious.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
It was really, really good.
I highly recommend, highlyrecommend.
People are sleeping on that.
Um, and like salmon.
I I swore that I would neverlike salmon.
I hated salmon.
I remember growing up my bestfriend, her family, always had
salmon for their dinners andthey'd invite me for the dinners
and I always had to pretend toeat it and, um, like I still
talk about that on there, I'mlike, ah, but now I love it and
(45:44):
now I can cook it and you know,and it's just, I saw you cooking
your salmon?
Yeah, I know, you know, and it'sjust I saw you yeah.
Yeah, I know that's a littleembarrassing, but yeah, I can
usually cook it better than that.
Um, and you know I, yeah, Ijust got really into cooking and
eating a lot of fish and justtrying my best.
You know, I do still write eatat restaurants every once in a
(46:04):
while.
I treat myself, I still, and Ido drink now, right, I have a
you know glass of wine here, andthere um, you know, up to like
three um, but.
I again, I'm just like supercautious about it, right, I'm
not gonna go crazy, because Iknow I'm gonna feel really bad
in the morning and that one youhave built your self-awareness
yeah you have built yourself-awareness, you're building
(46:28):
your self-awareness, so you'rein tune.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
You're self-aware yeah, people don't understand
how much that counts in beingself-aware and being truly
listening to yourself and andstopping and knowing what.
(46:51):
I am very proud of you, thankyou.
I'm so proud of you.
It's, it's um, it's it's it'slisten to your journey and I'm
sure there's so much we could.
I think we could talk for theentire afternoon but, um, one of
the things as it relates tomental health that I discussed
(47:16):
recently.
The episode that I recordedthat hasn't been released was
discussing someone who used ummushroom ios treatment, and this
was not the first time I'vediscussed it with someone, but
her conversation really openedmy eyes to the possibilities of
(47:39):
it for people you know for fortreating treating situation,
because traditionally I've notbeen that person.
I'm the person who advocatecannabis and I still advocate
cannabis.
I'm currently um been writing apaper on cannabis medicine.
You know with yeah to cornellthat you know, when I do serious
(48:02):
stuff I do it with cornell.
Yeah, um, and it's well overdue, but that's because I've just
been busy with everything.
But you know, have you knownanyone or have you tried any of
these and did it have any effect, positively or negatively?
(48:23):
And you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Great question.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I have.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I am from Brooklyn, new York, so cannabis Um yeah, I
mean it has I smoked weed formost of my life.
Um, I think it is incrediblyhelpful in a lot of ways.
Um, I think you know, um Ithink you know small doses um in
(48:57):
like treatment settings, interms of like you're hanging out
, you're relaxed, um you're not,you know, at the amusement park
.
Yeah right, um, you're not atthe movie theater, like you're
not just doing it, whatever, andI think that for a large part
of my life, I probably, um,didn't need to be doing it as
much as I was doing it andbecause you were on medication.
Yeah, also that also that, um,and I actually because I moved
(49:20):
abroad, right You're, I couldn'tget it yeah, um, so, and I
remember, you know, my entirelife I was like I'm not addicted
and I never.
I don't again.
I don't really think itactually can be chemically
addictive, but you know, Idefinitely think in in
retrospect I was dependent on itin a lot of ways and like not
that I did it every daynecessarily, but I needed to
know I could.
So, like I needed it in thehouse, like I needed it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
And again, you know why it?
Speaker 3 (49:43):
it calmed your mania, yeah exactly and and my friend
of my depression.
It just like gave me thislittle bit of out of body, in
the sense that like I wasn't inmy depressed body Right, like I
was able to be lifted a littlebit.
It's also a social thing.
I did do it alone, but veryoften it was with friends.
Again in New York, it's verymuch part of the culture and,
(50:04):
again, I think there are so manygood things about weed.
I also know that a huge part ofmy journey was not smoking it
every day yeah, all things inmoderation yes, all things in
moderation.
It's crazy now because I havesmoked it since um and it's like
like my, tolerance is likenothing uh it's like I it just
(50:26):
because you've been off it, yeah, for a while and your body?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
has cursed it so now, when you do indulge, you don't
want, you don't need much.
And two, because you're nowself-aware and your physical
body and your mental body is intune with what is it?
You've set the intention foryour life.
You've set an intention andyour body and your mind is
(50:53):
flowing with that intention soit stops you from going
overboard absolutely.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
and you know, what I always found when I was on the
medication was I found that Ifelt like you know that uh,
character of like the seal.
I mean he's like carrying allthe plates, all the plates are
turning and he has a ball on hisnose and I often felt I needed
to add to that to feel atequilibrium, which was always a
(51:21):
weird experience and hard toexplain, but it was like
drinking or smoking, like addingto.
It's like when something's kindof off and you just flick it
Right and then all of a suddenit's kind of, you know, rotating
and sink Like.
I was never calm, but I wantedto at least not be like shaking,
I wanted to be like spiralingcorrectly in uniform, which was
(51:44):
all I could hope for, because Ihad so many things going on
inside of me.
That's all I could hope forRight, um and I think you're
right is now that I am socentered and now that I am, from
all of the deep uh work I didwith my healer, but also from
the years and years and years ittook to get here, um, and from
being purged of so much of theshit that was in my body.
(52:07):
Um, now, if I drink, if I smoke, it's like it's the thing
putting me off which is like Ihave never had before, and so
now it's like, oh, I don'treally like that actually, um,
yeah, that's you know, the um,the, the, the episode I'm gonna,
that's pre-recorded.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
That's what she said.
She said after her firsttreatment, she went to four
years, yeah, of of this to getshe was, you know depression.
She was an alcoholic, shesmoked, you name it.
She was, yeah, you name it, andshe lived in hollywood.
So it was, yeah, she said it'snot.
(52:51):
She said it was cold turkeywith the drinking, but it wasn't
cold turkey in the sense thatshe stopped drinking, but the
first drink she had, instead ofher body going, yes, her body
went no bitch, no yeah yeah,literally, and but even with
(53:12):
that, she said it still took hereight months before she took
her last drink because she wasan alcoholic for so long.
But it took even when she sheher body was saying no she was
like this tastes horrible.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, she still went on for another eight months,
yeah, and I feel that because,like, I still smoke right and
again, um, I think I smoked, youknow, like once a month for the
past three months or somethingright, and those three to four
times right, I, I, I didn't likeit really, um, but I kept doing
(53:54):
it Right.
And then I was like, but maybeit will feel good this time, and
you're searching for that RightCause you're like, oh, but it
used to feel so good and it usedto be so relaxing and it used
to be everything I needed.
And then you're like, oh, it'snot there anymore and it sucks
Right, right so you keepsearching for it and I think,
just continuing to do thereflection of like was this fun?
Was this what I wanted?
(54:14):
Was this what I expected?
And now, like I don't thinkthere's a world in which I will
never, I don't think I need tonever smoke weed again as of
right now, but that's it.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Like you really, you get back into it and it's not
the same thing because, again,your chemistry has changed your
body has changed, they're alldrugs yeah you, you, it doesn't
work for everyone for somepeople the use of cannabis as a
as a mental health um to assistpeople coping with mental health
(54:48):
.
It's a tool that's veryvaluable, yeah, but also it's
not for everyone.
No, it's.
It's.
It's what we call bioindividual.
Yeah, exactly.
Everyone is different, yeah, sowhat works for so?
your body chemistry, becauseduring those months I think you
were you were being exposed inyour body to other alternative
(55:11):
music, the chinese medicine andthe massages, and that's a whole
ball game there, oh yeah soyour system got rewired, oh yeah
with that.
And so when you attempted tointroduce what used to work,
yeah, your body was like nah,yeah, you don't need that
(55:31):
anymore.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
In the meantime, there's someone else that the
cannabis can be the perfectsolution and again, I think it
was a was a great tool duringthose years where I needed that
or whatever.
At the time I think I didn'tneed medication and I think that
it was a good way to off again,just put to make it all kind of
work again from time to time.
(55:54):
I think, definitely not the wayI needed it all the time.
But, um, I mean it was a copingmechanism and sometimes you do
need to cope a little bit.
I mean, if you don't have allthe tools that you need and
you're not at the place that youneed to be at, coping is okay.
Coping can be a lifeline, yeah,um, but doing the reflection to
know when it's coping and thenthe reflection to be like do I
need this right now or do I needto do the work right now?
(56:16):
Yeah, right, um, and I thinkeveryone should get to the point
where, hopefully, they're doingthe work most of the time, but
we can all cope a little bithere and there, and that that's
life and that's how we getthrough it.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
That's it, yeah, get through it yeah with kindness,
yeah with kindness and kindnessto yourself.
I think like the main thingthat I took away from this
experience was a very scaryrevelation that I had never
loved myself like for my entirelife until this past year um and
(56:51):
, yeah, like I now very muchlove myself um and I love my
life and although it's sometimesreally hard, and although
sometimes, uh, the environmentis not one that you can choose,
but it's one that's, uh, youknow, created around you.
Um, that's okay, uh, and I feelvery like trust myself.
(57:12):
I trust that I will remainresilient that I will do the
work um and that I will neverlose that love again boom, drop,
mic, mic, drop, boom, boom,boom.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
It is, uh, this has been so good and I'm off here.
We will be continuing our talkand everything, but I think
that's all we have for you.
I hope the conversation hasbeen helpful.
I hope you've learned somethingfrom it.
(57:47):
I know I have, not just as anindividual, but as a
practitioner in the work that Ido with my clients and um, so we
are going to sign off with areminder to take care of
yourself today.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
I hope that you are loving yourself today.
You deserve the love you, sogive away.
I hope you know that you'rebeautiful today.
I am sending love to you frommy heart.
(58:43):
I hope you know that you are awork of art when it feels like
your world is falling apart.
Please remember that you arenever alone exactly we are never
alone.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
As much as we think it sometimes, we are never alone
.
I personally got reminded ofthat yesterday you were never
alone yeah, I was like, oh mygosh, until next time.
This is Chef Lorraine signingoff, and remember you can find
(59:25):
me at the elephant rooms in TCIif you're visiting, I do see.
That's where I practice andit's a practice that covers all
issues related to mental health,physical, you know, mental
health, neurodiversity, um,nutrition, wellness, and there's
(59:45):
someone there with the toolsthat is perfect for your
situation, for you, each by yourindividual need.
So go ahead and live your idlelife until next time when we
continue on this personaljourney that we're all on bye.
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