June 3, 2024 • 44 mins
Ever wondered why Dolby Atmos towers over the surround sound landscape, or how an Auro-3D setup can change your home theater experience? Join Justin and Neil as they unravel the mysteries behind these audio formats. You’ll discover how Dolby Atmos became the industry benchmark and why Auro-3D, despite its early innovation, remains a hidden gem in the U.S. We’ll also break down the speaker setup recommendations and playback environments that make each format unique, and reveal how an Auro-3D configuration can seamlessly accommodate DTS and Atmos setups—though the reverse isn't as versatile.
Get ready to transform your home theater into an audio powerhouse as we tackle the nuances of Dolby Atmos speaker placement. Starting with a lighthearted chat about mastering movie theater popcorn at home, we then get into the nitty-gritty of optimizing your speaker layout. Learn how improper angling and spacing of your overhead speakers can ruin your audio experience, and gather tips on precise measurements and tools to help you get it right. We’ll also discuss the benefits of strategic front and rear height speaker placement and the capabilities of the latest Denon receivers that support extensive configurations for an immersive sound environment.
Finally, we take a deep dive into the world of DTS:X and DTS:X Pro audio formats, comparing them to IMAX Enhanced setups. Discover the unique speaker positioning required for IMAX Enhanced and how DTS:X Pro can support up to 32 speakers for a truly enveloping sound experience. We’ll also touch on the role of the Trinnov receiver in managing these advanced configurations and share our excitement about experiencing such a sophisticated system firsthand. This episode is your ultimate guide to understanding and optimizing your home theater sound systems for an unparalleled audio experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So here we go.
(00:42):
We're not dull, we're not dull,we're not dull.
Welcome to amateur audiophile.
(01:14):
I'm justin, I'm neil, what's up, man?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
what's going on guys?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
good yourself doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Chris, you want to give me my womp, womp, womp.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Mm-hmm, you want a womp, womp, womp.
Yeah, I want a womp, womp, wompIn.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Three, two, one.
Yeah, what's up?
All right, I just wanted tobring that back, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Today we got a pretty cool topic Neil and I have been
talking about this for a littlewhile now and so we want to
talk about the differencebetween Atmos and Well, aura 3D
and DTS, DTS-X IMAX Enhanced Imean there's so many of them to
where you go shopping for areceiver and it says all these
weird acronyms on you Like whatthe hell does that mean?
(02:03):
What is the difference?
What does it?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm gonna need you to school me a little bit, because
atmos is what I've messed withthe most yeah, so a lot of this
other stuff.
I just I haven't even screwedwith this, I don't really even
know, so you know.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oddly enough, you know, I don't know that I can
say that atmos is better thandtsx or 3d.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know, I can't, because I haven't worked with
both of them.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, you know, when you even look at the technical
specs of it all and everythinglike that, when it comes down to
nitty-gritty, the biggestdifference is it really came
down to marketing when it firstkind of took off right.
So, you know, used to, we hadDTS and DTS was your 5.1 setup
Right, right, so that's the wayit was mixed in the studio.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's what we've used for years.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's how it was recorded.
So we use DTS for the longesttime Now.
From there on, it kind of umDolby Atmos kind of came out and
they really pushed their system, their, their code essentially,
and so a lot of the big moviecompanies and stuff like that
(03:10):
kind of adapted that first.
I think it's really where thatcame into.
Oddly enough, though the salesof it sounded cool it is it
really is a selling thing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, fully enveloping sound.
It really is a selling thing.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, fully enveloping sound.
There was a long time ago Iwatched something or saw
something that was talking aboutAura 3D and how long Aura 3D
has been out.
Well, aura 3D apparently wasone of the earlier object-based
audio systems.
Yeah, it was developed overseasand they just never really
(03:50):
focused focused, I guess, onselling it and getting it out
there, and so a lot of peopledon't even know about it here.
Yeah, um, you go over to someproductions overseas, some movie
productions they actually douse aura 3d.
Um, one of the biggest thingthat aura 3d now has started
really taken off on is, uh,music.
Okay, so apparently peoplereally started using music and
mixed their music tracks with or3d in mind, which really kind
(04:13):
of brings you into a new levelof of enveloping yourself with
the music versus, you know, likeyou're just five speakers, with
all stereo coming out at thesame time.
So so I got some stuff, uh,prepared to kind of show some
differences.
One of the biggest differences,though when we talk about what
is the real differences betweenall of these, you know, in the
(04:34):
end of the day, all of themreally achieve very similar
things, or the same thing.
There there's minutedifferences on it.
The biggest difference is that,did you really see?
Is what is the recommendedsetup from the developer right?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
yeah.
What was it tuned for?
What the sound engineers andeverything like?
What were they intending it tobe played on?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
and so that is one of the things that dolby atmos has
has an advantage on, because itdoes have a lot of flexibility
as well as DTS-X right, and thatis one thing where Aura 3D kind
of left off there's not a lotof movies to watch.
No, it's not the movies I'mtalking about the setup we're
talking about, like the, theconfiguration of your speakers.
(05:19):
Aura 3D is very specific in theway they want you to set up the
speakers whereas Atmos.
So if you set up the speakersWhereas Atmos, so if you set up
your system for that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
that's all you're going to be using, so a good
receiver.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I mean going back to what we've talked about in the
past, like your, your trend offaltitude, you know they're.
They're so advanced that it,once you configure everything
correctly, it can really kind ofup mix to whatever you want to.
But the biggest thing that I'veseen is if you set your system
up for Aura 3D, it'll work bestfor all three of them, versus if
(05:55):
you set your system up for,like Atmos in a certain way, it
will not work well for Aura 3D.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, so if you set up for Aura, it will work for
DTS and Atmos, correct.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So I got a couple, uh , couple, screenshots here.
Um, so, one of the first oneshere, number one okay, that's
not, that's not number one.
So this is probably the basicsetup that most people would
recognize, right, right?
So we got three differentoptions here.
(06:27):
You got a 5.1.2.
And so you got the first setupthere is with the speakers that
fire up and then come back downon you, which is probably the
simplest thing you could install, because you don't have to put
overhead speakers in the ceilingright, so that's huge there.
Now the second setup would behaving that, but with the
ceiling right, so that that'shuge there.
Now, the second setup would behaving that, but with the
(06:49):
ceiling speaker.
So you got your bed layer five,center, right, your five
speakers, you got your threefronts, your two surrounds and
then two up above you and thenthe.
The third one basically does itwith a 4.1, 5.1.4.
So you're giving yourself fouroverheads?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, it looks like those are upfiring.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It is upfiring again, so I kind of want to talk about
the differences there too.
So when you really experiencethe upfiring stuff, I've
listened to some upfiringspeakers and it is so hard to
get an upfiring speaker to soundcorrectly, so personally I
would shy away from using those.
Just because your room has tobe absolutely perfect.
(07:33):
You have to be calibrated andset up 100% correctly to be able
to get the correct effectcoming from the speaker bouncing
off and coming back down to you.
So you got time alignment anddistance alignment, right and
perfect angle alignment yeah,and then there's really one seat
(07:55):
.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well, it's also going to get dispersed even more once
it reflects right, and soyou're going to have even more
dispersion, more reflections.
It's a lot harder to controlwhere that sound is going.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So you know, now you're talking about the
engineering side of things.
Of course.
You know we'll kind of touch onthe base with you in a second.
We'll just install that side ofthings.
And I think sometimes there's alittle bit of a disconnect
there too, like what's easier toinstall or what looks better,
but what is actually theoriginal intent.
So that was kind of like ourfirst basic setup right, like, I
would say, a good startingpoint 5.1.2.
(08:32):
If you can start there, it'sgreat.
So now I want to go to thesecond image here.
So this just kind of steps outof that one, right, yeah, and so
one of the things that I wantto point out on these two here
specifically is so you got a7.1.6 with an overhead speaker
mix setup or you got alloverheads.
(08:55):
So on the first image you'llsee there's actually some height
speakers up at the top, rightnext to the TV, right or next to
the screen, your front heights.
So they're front heights, sotheir front heights, which?
but not technically overheadcorrect, they're not technically
overheads but from therethere's been some some
controversy there.
I guess too right, because youtalk about the ease of
(09:17):
installation and the purpose ofit right.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, it's a lot easier than putting speakers in
or on the ceiling.
It is a lot like you just movethem up the wall and screw them
into a stud and mount them, justlike you do your surrounds.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Right, but that's not even the important part.
So this is one of the biggestthings that you'll see is like
your seating position is in themiddle of the room, so now
you've got some front heightsthat are firing straight down.
Are you going to hear those?
Or how good are you going tohear those?
Or how good are you going tohear those as an overhead effect
of your seating position?
being further back so that's whynot because it's not really
(09:52):
overhead exactly, just kind ofup and forward so that that
second image was really isreally my favorite configuration
to having two overheads rightup above me and then front
heights and rear heights.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's what I prefer, if your room is big enough to
allow for it.
That's where you get that realdome effect, to where you're
actually being completelysurrounded overhead with the
sounds, because, as things aregoing overhead in the movie,
you're going to notice thatthey're traveling up and over,
so like it's coming from thefront and it's going over your
(10:27):
head.
Well, if you've just got twospeakers, it's all coming from
one spot.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right, or even if you have the four speakers right,
but your seating position is inthe middle and then your two
speakers are behind you and infront of you there's a gap in
the middle.
There's a gap and they'refiring straight down Right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So it's kind of hard to point those at you.
That's where it's alsoimportant, especially with
atmospeakers, is to aim yourspeakers right.
Like I, I prefer theatmospeakers like the front one
should be aimed in and forward,the the middle one should be
aimed in towards the listeningarea and then, you know, the
rear one should be aimed in andforward, and they should also be
most likely if, if it's at allpossible, the same width as your
left and your right.
They should be in alignment,they shouldn't be too close
(11:10):
together and they shouldn't betoo wide.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
As perfect as you can get it correct.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now the last Atmos setup that I wanted to show is
basically like, probably theballer setup that you could go,
which is the nine, the nextimage.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Okay there, so you got 9.1.6 yeah, so you've got
your six overheads plus yourfront heights.
So now, no, you've got extra.
What you got?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
ultra wides so well, no, this one here, you still got
your left side, okay, you gotyour heights in front of you and
your heights behind you, andthen your elevation is right up
above you, right versus thesecond image.
You're still doing the six, sixheights, but they're all just
straight up above you, so you'renot getting that that same
effect coming down to thatseating position, because, if
you see, the center heights arethe only two that are sitting
(11:58):
over that couch.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Now, all of these images, of course, talking about
ideal world situations, right,and that that's kind of one of
the the hard parts with a lot ofthese setups is it's so hard to
set this up for more than oneperson.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, parts with a lot of these setups is it's so
hard to set this up for morethan one person?
Yeah, because you said youalways want to point these at
your listening position yeah, soa lot of times the best you're
going to get is two seats right.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So so having that does allow you to get a little
bit more maneuverability,because you do have total of
nine bed layers and sixoverheads, so that does give you
a little bit more room to playwith.
Um, and that was one of thethings that, uh, again going
back to that trino system, thatthey really kind of come out and
said, okay, well, we want to goall out with this is most
(12:42):
people don't notice, but the thedolby atmos system does with
this.
The mixing track, the trackthat comes from the movies, yeah
, is actually mixed in 32channels yeah which is crazy.
But well, it's made for a movietheater right, but I mean still
32 channels, that's, that'sintense well, if you go to a
movie theater, I mean all your,your side and rear surrounds.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There's not two on the sides and two in the rear,
there's four, five, six,depending on the size of the
theater, because there's so manyseats in there.
You've got a couple of hundredseats and so everybody.
They're trying to tune it towhere everybody's going to kind
of hear the same thing, right,and so it's harder to do.
But that's also why you can geta better sound at home, because
everything is targeted to onemain seat 100, you know you can
(13:28):
get much better bass managementand all that stuff there so
that's why I prefer watching amovie at home than going to the
theater, anyways.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well, and that and a couple other reasons.
I guess the only thing my wifealways complains about is the
popcorn at home or at thetheater.
She wants that theater pop like, yeah, the unlimited butter
machine, I don't care I don'tcare what kind of popcorn you
make at home, it's just never asgood as it is at a movie
theater.
Apparently, I'm not a real biglike popcorn guy.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean neither, I don't.
I'm not not like that type ofpopcorn.
Like my dad always madehomemade popcorn in in a kettle,
I could tell us about thepopcorn.
Bro, it's, it's killer.
Yeah, popcorn anyways my dadmakes the best popcorn in the
world, so I don't really careabout the popcorn.
(14:15):
I like the candy, right, I'm amuncher.
So yeah, with with atmos, Ithink where a lot of people
screw up is is they don't placethe speakers properly.
Um, they start going withoverhead speakers and they think
just getting them up there isall you need, and then they'll a
lot of times you'll see themway too wide, too far out and
then again they're just straightdown firing instead of actually
being angled, and you thinkabout, like a lot of people are
(14:38):
pretty good about angling intheir bed layer speakers like
they should, but then theyforget about it when they go up
top and they think, well, oh,it's just extra noise from up
top just to give a little bit of, you know, ambiance sound or
whatever, and they don't anglethem properly.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And it does to a point.
And the problem that you alsonotice is when people do it that
way, they listen to it and theyjust be like eh, it really
didn't change that much.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, I'm not that impressed.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm not impressed.
Where's all the hype comingfrom?
I can't tell that it's there orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So then they start cranking up the height speakers
and all that stuff.
So you're, you're overpoweringthem to give yourself the
compensate because you set themup right, right, exactly, yeah,
it's.
It's a very tricky thing likeyou've got.
Uh, when I set up atmospeakers,I'm, I'm bringing out the
protractor, the string, like I,I like to set a um, like I'll
usually build some kind of standwith um, like a ball or
something, or a box or whatever,where the center ear height is
going to be, and then I, Imeasure out all the angles and
(15:41):
then run strings exactly whereit's going to go, so all the
angles are exactly the same allright, but that's that's.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Uh, that's kind of the odd person out for for an
installer, because mostinstallers don't necessarily
think of the, the audio, thatmuch more of the appeal and the
look that's the differencebetween the speakers.
How can I make it look the best?
Yeah, right, and where am Igoing to put the speakers to be
the most seamless?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
well, that's the difference in just an installer
and somebody that actuallydesigns layouts right they, they
don't think about they, they.
They think about like oh, theybought these speakers, I need to
put them in and they should gothere and there and that looks
pretty good.
And, like you said, put them ina place where they look good.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Center with the room.
Right yeah, you want, you wanteverything to look kind of
squared off or whatever.
So you center it with the room.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
They're never going to be centered in the room,
because your seating position isnot going to be centered in the
room, correct, you know your.
Your seating position shouldnever be all the way back
against the wall and it shouldnever be in the middle of the
room.
It's typically going to beabout two thirds of the way back
, is going to be your prime seat, and so those, those six Atmos
speakers, should be in the backhalf of the theater typically,
(16:46):
or you know, it's the back twothirds at least.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Right.
So that's why I'm saying havingthe front heights and the rear
heights makes it so much better.
Anyways, in my opinion and I Ithink that's a, because now you
can actually put the speakers upabove your front stage, because
in the system it doesn't saythe sound is forward five feet
and then up.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, it just goes up first right, right, and then it
starts kind of moving backwardsand so yeah, if you don't have
those front heights, there's ahuge gap between your center
channel and your left and rightbefore you get to your Atmos
speakers, yeah, and then alsofrom your front uh, your front
soundstage to your sidesurrounds.
There's a huge gap there aswell.
(17:29):
So if you can add front heightsand extra wides, you're really
covering all of that which Imean at that point.
With six Atmos speakers, you'regetting into 17 speakers at
that point, and then you'retalking extra processors and
amps and you know four morespeakers and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And that's in an ideal world, um, obviously, but
so, and that's one thing I want,I kind of want to point point
out Actually.
So the 7.1.6, if I'm notmistaken, the latest Denon
receiver, which is the 3800,actually supports that many
speakers.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
The 4800 does.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No the 3800.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The 3800 will the 3800 is the smallest, the
smallest one you can get, thecheapest Denon receiver that
they offer in their lineup.
That has 13 power channels andit now has 13 power channels.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, 13 power channels plus two additional
channels.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
You can hook up an m2 yes, you can also run front
heights with that, if you havean external amp so yeah that's
pretty baller.
Yeah, the last dinner I did wasthe 4800 and it was 13 power
channels and it's more thanenough 100 especially for the
size room that we put in.
I think the room was like 22 by14 and it only had two rows of
seats.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So we had seven, seven seats total and it was
more than enough so, uh, goingforward, now let's, uh, let's
pull up the, the next, uh nextimage here which kind of goes
into um aura 3d.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now okay, so this is something that I'm not uh 100
familiar with.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So so this is something that aura completely
changed and does differently.
Um, so when you look at it, yousee that one lonely speaker in
the top, yeah, and so that islike literally your only above
speaker that or does and in intheir setup they actually call
it the voice of god becomes.
It comes straight from aboveyou, okay, and the the argument
(19:11):
that Aura kind of wants to bringin to saying that that speaker
is not as important as some ofthe other speakers is because of
the way our ears are designedand we really don't hear
anything directly from above.
Our ears are kind of focusedmore around us in a pattern.
So when you look at that image,it talks about angles and
(19:32):
degrees.
So when you look at that image,it talks about angles and
degrees.
So it wants to put everyspeaker at a certain degree,
facing you in a very specificangle.
So all your height level wouldbe in front of you and behind
you, specifically pointed at a30 degrees to the listening
(19:53):
position is optimal which isoptimal situation, so they
always want that 30 degree angle.
Though, regardless of what youdo, regardless how big the room
is, which you should be doingwith the atmos setup, too, hey,
but the other atmos, most peoplejust put the ceilings in the
ceiling.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So how do you?
Why they mess?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
up?
How are you going to set thisup on a 30 degree angle when
they're in the ceiling?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
well, you have to get a speaker that has a tweeter,
or a speaker that is tiltedinside the box, or you build
your own box, like I typicallydo, or you can take your
bookshelf speakers and mountthem to the ceiling, just like
you would your Shrouds.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
There's ways around it and I'm glad you're bringing
that up, because at the very endof some of these I got a couple
sweet couple of speakers that Ijust kind of took Not, I'm not
trying to like say brandspecific, yeah, these are just a
couple that.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I just found.
No, there's some brands that dothat great.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I know.
So there was just a couple thatI wanted to show, but so that
that's kind of where where Aurareally sets itself apart and
that's why I'm saying does.
But when you do the aura setup,yeah, it kind of fits in with
that most of yeah, yeah, I seewhat you're saying now and it's
something that is is verydebated in the in the industry.
(21:02):
Really, to be honest with you,yeah and, at the same time, it's
not something that's talkedabout with the more average
people so there's like notmarketed as much it's not
marketed at all.
So there there's your leadest.
I guess that really know aboutthe stuff, that know how this
all works, and then there's.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, you're just getting into that world where
it's all custom because, like,even with an atmos system that's
six overhead speakers if you'rejust hiring a basic installer
to put this in, it's never goingto sound good because they're
not like to properly set them upand install them the right way.
It's a full.
It's nine times out of 10 goingto be a really custom install
(21:37):
and if you're just hiring youknow Magnolia store or whatever
Best Buy, they're not going tohave that capability and you're
not paying that premium price tohave it installed properly.
So to actually get an Atmossystem that is set up the right
way, the speakers that areangled the right way, designed
the right way, everything,you're either having a full
(21:57):
custom build or you're doing ityourself, which is a lot of the
guys that we talk to that have.
These systems are set up right,they're building them
themselves, just like you and Iare, and so that's I think
that's where Atmos gets a badrap is the majority of people
that are buying these systems.
They're just having them put inby just normal installers and
(22:17):
they're just slapping them inand they're not getting the
benefit.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And not just that.
Even worse, and I hate when Isee it, because I'll go to, like
you know, best Buy, walmart,whatever, and they have a
soundbar sitting there that saysit's a 7.4.
And I'm like it's a sound bar.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, yeah, but we're bouncing sound off the
wall.
So it has one singular speakerand if you would unwrap that
sound bar, you can see thatthere is a bunch of speakers
pointed in all kinds ofdifferent directions to bounce
it off the wall.
Bounced it off the wall andagain, who's got that setup
that's going to make thesethings bounce off the wall?
(22:54):
To where the sound comes from,where the sound engineer
designed the?
sound to come from in the movie?
Nobody, it sounds like crap.
So, uh, moving on to the.
The next one is just anotherexample for the aura 3d setup,
just kind of a bigger speakersetup, um, just adding an
additional set of layers there.
So this is a 13.1, essentiallyright.
(23:14):
So that actually gives you fivebed layers.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Chris, can we bring that up full screen so I can see
it a little better?
There we go, all right.
So kind of break this downbetter for me, like where is
your?
Where are you sitting in thissetup, right in the middle?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Right in the middle right, where that dot is at yeah
, 100%, they want to be in thatmiddle.
Right in the middle right,where that dot is at yeah, 100,
they want to be in that middle.
So the other thing you'llnotice too is that the center is
set further back than yourfront and left right, because
they want that encompassingexactly.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
yeah, well, that's what I was saying, like on the
last episode, when, when I setup my left and right, they're
never the same distance from thesidewall back, like they're not
in a straight line across theback wall.
I like to have them kind of onan axis like that to where the
distance from the middle seatingposition is the same, so as you
(24:01):
go, as you go out to your leftand right, the speakers are
coming in and forward.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But I promise you, most people wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
They push them right up against the wall I mean, even
if you pull them off the wallbecause their wife tells them
they have to well, I understandthat.
But so you pull them away fromthe, from the wall for one or
two feet right, which, yeah, forsound, ideally you do want to
have them at least, at leastminimum, I'd say 12 to 14 inches
away from the wall.
Yeah, but all you do is you towthem in, yeah, but you're not
moving them inwards, so you'renot having your center further
(24:29):
back and then pulling your frontleft out into the middle of the
room, so to create thatcurvature right.
But again, for aura 3d, theywant that 30 degree offset from
everything, so everything's kindof set up in that 30 degree
angle, and I think that's whyone of the reasons why aura
didn't make it as far in thatfield, because it's just harder
(24:51):
to accomplish this yeah, it'sharder to do that like in a
living room setup, becauseyou're gonna have speakers just
out in the middle of your inyour room so now you run into an
issue, of course, where all thethe movie makers make it and
either dolby atmos or dtsx andor it's kind of left off to the
sideline, right.
So you know, with that there'sbeen a huge debate of should you
(25:14):
take a receiver that can use ordo Aura 3D and up-mix that.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So you take a Dolby Atmos track and up-mix it to
Aura 3D and does that soundbetter, or are you better off
leaving it on the Dolby Atmosmix in my opinion, just based on
what I'm seeing here, thatyou're showing me from what I
like to do it's kind of how Ilike to set up my speakers
(25:42):
anyways is keep that same angle,and it's almost like in a
circle as it is, and I think itsounds better that way, using
Atmos and DTX.
So, yeah, I would think that ifyou're setting it up for Aura
and then you're listening totracks that are meant for Atmos
and DTSX, it's going to soundbetter because your, your setup
(26:03):
is already going to be better tobegin with.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So so you're saying you are going to up mix and
that'll sound better.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I think so because I think your speakers are going to
be placed more optimally.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So you know, and that's one thing that I wish I
could experience for myself,yeah, I've, I've watched some
other people kind of talk aboutthis and say that they tried it
and they thought it soundedbetter, and then other people
say, no, it sounds worse.
It's just, it's overpowering thethe height speakers now, and I
feel like there's too muchcoming from up top yeah and so
that's one thing that I,personally, really would love to
(26:33):
play with one day, but it'sgoing to come down to personal
preference in your tuning wellthat, and of course you have to
have the right equipment to beable to do it, like my receiver
I don't have, or 3d optionreceiver anyways, yeah, um, I do
know that all I think the newthe 4800, I think, has it in it
I think I think there was anoption in that, but we were
doing an atmos setup.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
But, like I said, the way that I kind of usually lay
out my speakers, yeah, but see,you didn't even know, it's like
a mix.
I didn't even know because Ihadn't even looked into it.
That's just how I prefer to doit and and that's due to
marketing, right?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
yeah, because all the marketing has been dolby atmos,
dolby, atmos, dolby yeah,here's the, here's the, the
layout, here's the map.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Follow it and this is how you should lay it out,
because this is what our studiolooks like Exactly, and, from
what I've heard, it's typicallynot how it's actually set up,
anyways.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean, if you ever watched one of those, if
you ever looked at a video of amixing studio, it's wild the way
they look.
They really do have it set uplike that picture, almost, with
like there's like a desk with amonitor sitting in the middle of
the room and they're likeencompassed in a circular avenue
.
Yeah, exactly those mixingstudios.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's how they do it .
It's everything is equidistantaround and it's.
It's all at the same angle fromside to side, so you don't have
any dead zones, you're nothaving sound that's getting
skipped from your front, left toyour, to your, uh, your side
surround, because there's such abig gap and so everything is is
better set up equally aroundyou that's optimal like so.
(27:54):
You can't do that in a livingroom.
I mean, what are you gonna haveone recliner in the very middle
of your living room and thenjust speakers all the way around
?
Heck, yeah, I mean, if you'resingle for the rest of your life
yeah, you can have that.
Nobody's wife's gonna put upwith that crap she don't like
watching the same movies anywaythat's where you need to buy a,
uh, a storage shed from it andconvert it, to convert it to a
(28:15):
theater.
Then you set it up however youwant to.
I mean, I've always wantedsomething like that, where it's
just literally just for me likemaybe a love seat, at the very
most just like two, two seats,because, uh, I think that's how
it's going to sound the bestyeah, I mean two to three seats.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I think I think you can set up a system very good
for three seats.
Um, I think you get a littlebit more complex when you say,
like, if you do dedicated hometheater and you get into adding
multiple rows into the system,um, I think you're getting a
little bit more complex there.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I think the problem where you really run into issues
with making everything soundgood with multiple seats is when
you have a smaller room and themore seats you add, the closer
you're getting to those sidespeakers and the surround
speakers, so the closer you get.
So if you're sitting off to theright the very far right chair
and you've got a surroundspeaker that's two feet off of
(29:04):
your head and then your leftsurround is 10 feet off your
head over there, now you'regetting blasted.
Yeah, you're getting blastedover here, and this is all you
can hear.
So if you've got a room bigenough to where you can still
keep everything spaced outoptimally that's where it's it's
going to be it's just reallyhard to sit closer to the walls.
So if your room's 12 to 15 feetwide, it's going to be really
(29:24):
hard to have more than threepeople in one room.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
And two at that point is still optimal.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So now to the last one, and the last one kind of
goes into two avenues.
Actually we mentioned DTS-X andwe mentioned IMAX Enhanced, and
actually I don't know that alot of people realize this, but
the IMAX Enhanced was somethingthat uses the DTS codec, but it
basically tried to do somethinglike they did with Dolby Vision.
(29:52):
You got Dolby Atmos and DolbyVision, so with the IMAX
enhanced that really justsupposed to bring in the image
side of it to correlate with theaudio soundtrack, like Dolby
did.
So that was kind of theiranswer to that.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
But so we're going to the next image.
This is like your basic DTSXsetup.
You'll see, that is the flatsetup, the way they suggest to
do it.
Now, of course, we're talkingabout those height speakers
again, and when you look at this, this looks almost identical to
what your basic Atmos setup isyeah.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Look at the gap between your left surround and
your front left.
Look how big that gap is whereit's just a dead zone in there
so, and that's that was onething.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That goes with tuning again, right, and I don't think
that's an issue, I think youcan fix all that with tuning.
You know, you got the tone inthe back, which is fine, and
there again we got that straightline across the front with the
speakers, with your speakersjust towed in that 30 degrees to
get you back onto thatlistening position, right but I
(31:00):
still feel like, optimally, youmove that couch forward a little
bit and you're almost in themiddle, and then you move those
side surrounds up and then Ilike everything to be in a
straight line.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So you see, like the the front left to the rear right
, how it comes in and then kicksout.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But but think about, like most people set up like I
mean, how much room are yougoing to waste and if you want
to be able to have a big enoughof a screen, so at what point am
I going to say, well, I want tobe further in the middle to
optimize my speakers to the rear, or I want to sit further back
to be able to have a biggerscreen?
And enjoy the larger screen.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, that's where I think, with a setup like that,
the optimal thing to do is toput ultra wide, uh, extra wides
in to to cut that distancebetween your, your left surround
and your front left, and Ithink that's where wides come in
really well.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Wides is really an offset.
Offset, though, I mean that'sreally well.
Wide is really an offset,though I mean that's kind of an
oddball.
There's not a lot of people todo them, unless you have a
really, really large room.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, if you've got a narrow long room and you're
looking front to back, it'sreally hard to do it because you
can't get any wider than thatwall.
So that's really your odd manout, to be honest with you, it
really is, and typically you'regoing to have a window or a door
there or something in you knowuh, in an actual house where
(32:16):
you're not having just adedicated theater room.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Now so you get limited.
Now, one of the things that wassupposed to be really cool with
dtsx is that the way theprocessing works.
It says, well, this is yourideal setup, but in reality do
whatever you want.
And I say that in an extremekind of way.
But they're basically sayingthat their calibration setup is
so good that they can compensate, as long as everything is set
(32:41):
up correctly, that they cancompletely offset speaker
placement by using the rightcodec and the right mixing
platform to still give you theimpression that everything's
coming from where it's supposedto be coming from.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
To a degree, I mean, I feel like it's a percentage
thing.
It is Like they can onlycompensate, like such a
percentage to where you get pastthe point where your setup is
so bad they can't compensate forit.
And the better your setup is,the higher of a percentage
you're going to get.
You see what I'm saying of apercentage you're going to get.
You see what I'm saying, yeah,like you're going to get the
most optimal.
(33:14):
So like, yeah, they cancompensate for a little bit, but
a better laid out system, abetter setup for speaker
placement is always going tosound better, always so I mean
absolutely, I agree with thatstatement there.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Um so, so the next one here, and this this kind of
goes.
So you see the imax enhancedright.
So this is kind of what I wastalking about.
It's the same setup as yourregular dtsx right so they they
kind of really put that in thesame thing.
I think that illustration kindof has those speakers up a
little high maybe, um, butthat's kind of where they want
them to be, I guess are thosehigh speakers up in the corners?
(33:53):
Those are your high speakers upin the corner, so which really
goes.
So there's nothing overhead,really like nothing, like right
above you which, again, if youpoint those speakers down, you
will get a better immersiveheight effect than you would
having those in the ceilingdirectly yeah so.
So now going to the next one, Ishould be the the dtx, uh, the
(34:14):
pro no, and this is somethingthat up big, so I can really
this is something that mostpeople don't even know about
exists.
I don't think, to be honest withyou, and I kind of want to show
the difference side by sidethere.
So you got your dtsx setupright, which again we're talking
about your.
You know your five bed layersor your seven bed layers with
your four heights, and now thedtx pro can take that into new
(34:36):
level and really bring in awhole bunch of more speakers and
and the acronym is thissomething that's like a you're
gonna need a trinov receiver yes, to run this you would have to
have.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
How many speakers is this?
I can't even count them all um,I'm not.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I'm not sure exactly how many speakers is this?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I can't even count them all.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I'm not.
I'm not sure exactly how manyspeakers.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Good Lord, I didn't give it a countdown, but Okay.
So are the different colorsdifferent heights?
Yes, so, like the orangespeakers, are your bed, your bed
layer, correct?
And then the blue is what Up,like up the wall.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I think, actually, if I'm not mistaken.
I think the next image willwill illustrate this a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
So I got.
Can I see like a picture of,like an actual holy crap?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So that that kind of supposed to give you a little
bit different view of it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So it does look like those blue speakers are like up
the top of the wall.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And the green is overhead overhead.
Wow, that's crazy.
So it gives you like multiplelayers to really to really get
that full motion, like if youhave an airplane taking off it
really does, yeah, go from onelevel to the next level, to the
next level and you like, have tohave a curved screen I don't
think you'd have to have a curveman to like really get the
(35:46):
effect like you really need likea curved screen there.
I mean, now we're talking likefull IMAX movie screen.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Hey, man, it's if you can afford all these fricking
speakers.
I mean again, how many speakersis this?
One, two, three, I don't know,it's like 24 or something.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Well, I mean ideally, the Trinov does support 32
speakers.
That's nuts man.
And I just got one more image,really kind of displaying the
same thing.
I just kind of wanted to.
Where do we have to go?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
to hear one of these.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I don't know.
I don't know if there's anyoneclose by.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Put the camera on me.
Chris, whoever has a setup likethis, please get ahold of us.
We will travel to wherever youare.
I want to hear this crap.
I want to hear this in person,because 15 channels is the most
I've gotten to hear.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So this kind of just encompassed that that image
again one more time it lookslike a math problem.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I feel like I'm in calculus again, so again, just
kind of showing those layersright.
And in a better way.
Yeah, I can really really kindof grasp it.
This is like my wet dream.
I mean, this is like you.
If you turn me loose with nobudget and a room to just do
whatever I wanted to, that'spretty much what I would come up
with.
Yeah, I mean that's like I.
I mean that's your dome.
(36:58):
It is a dome of speakers, likeyou can't get any better than
that.
There's there's there's noempty space there.
There.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
There's no huge gaps, there's no dead zones, like
nothing, like that so, and thatthat is again going back to what
I said earlier with dtsx, isthat it tries to compensate and
mix up a lot of things, right,yeah?
So again with the dtsx pro, andhere's a, an example that shows
that.
There you go, how thatprocessing is supposed to work.
Um, it is supposed to be ableto take a, a more basic mix and
(37:31):
up, mix that into that dtsx pro.
That's crazy man.
So so this is probablysomething like the two, like I
said, you know, the dtsx pro andthe war 3d.
If you don't look for thisstuff, you never, you never find
it, you don't know it's outthere, like I.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I mean, this stuff is just like lived in my head
forever, like, hey, I want tocreate a dome of speakers, but
like I never really even lookedinto it because it never pops up
.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Let's be honest, it doesn't pop up on my youtube
feed and so one more thing withthe dts pro 2, there's actually
an option to have a lower levelspeaker.
So, and that's, I don't knowthat I've ever seen that yet.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right, but I that's what I was asking you about
earlier to my understanding thatexists right.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I've never personally seen it.
I've always wondered that to tomy understanding is they have a
lower set of speakers that youcan set up to be down low, so
that way if you have a scenethat goes from top to bottom and
right below your eye level,yeah, I mean, think about you're
watching a movie where your um,your point of view is from a
helicopter, or you're watchingan avatar, where you're, you're
(38:35):
flying through and there's soundgoing underneath you.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Well, you don't talk about dead zones.
In a theater Like the, the, theentire floor is a dead zone
because there's no sound comingfrom it.
But sometimes in movies, you'rein the air from your point of
view and there's sound happeningunderneath you.
So why has nobody come up withspeakers that come up and angle
up at you?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I mean, I mean really like, think about it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I mean, even if you're like you're, you're in a
movie scene where you're on aboat and something splashes in
the water down below you likewhere's that sound actually
coming from?
I mean like your center channel.
Usually you know and you cantell it's not coming from below
where you're looking at.
Yeah, I mean that's true,that's true.
So I mean, if you're in, if, ifyou've got a setup like this
(39:20):
where you've got 32 freakingspeakers, like you've got the
money to kind of build whateveryou want to, at that point, like
let's talk about like you'regoing to have your seats are
going to be on a riser anyways.
So, why not bump that riser up afew more feet and then have
some speakers down in the floorpointing up at you, because
you're not putting any furniturebetween your first row and the
screen anyways, which istypically about half of your
(39:42):
room anyways, like you're notusing that space for anything
sidebar question.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
You got 32 speakers.
How many subs you got?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
you better have like 24 man, and they should all be
in the corners right I'm goingwith.
I'm going with eight speakers.
No, let's see, I'm going withuh 12 subwoofers bottom, top and
center of every single corner.
I don't know that that's.
(40:12):
We're shaking the neighborhoodyeah yeah, and then I'm doing
one infinite baffle in theceiling.
Speaking of which, I saw some,uh some pictures in that
infinite baffle group.
Uh, the other day they wereputting them in the floor for
houses that had crawl spaces andusing the crawl space as the
baffle, and so they built thespeakers opposing to each other,
(40:33):
dropped the box in the floorand then put a metal grate on it
, so it looks like an air return.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I don't think I want an air return on my floor,
though.
Anyways.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
No, it's not an actual air return.
It's just a speaker box, but itlooks like an air return and
that's where all your bass iscoming from.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I don't know.
I'd rather have it in theceiling than with the floor.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
personally, Well, it depends on what your setup is.
If you've got a two-story house, you can't put it in the
ceiling.
Yeah, that's true.
Again, it goes back to whereyour dedicated room is.
That's true, dude affirmative.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
So so I got I got just a couple more images, and
these are just quick images.
Um, I just kind of want toshout talk about a couple more
speakers, so to show some ofthese different options I've
talked about, let's hit thesereal quick.
So those are just a couplequick options.
So this would be like our basicin-ceiling speaker yes this
would be the the most commonthing that people would go with
simple, you just plop up inthere and you're done.
(41:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
That would be probably the only one that I
would say is, if you're going toput it in, that one has to go
right up above you it's got togo right over above you unless
you've got some uh, somecarpenter skills or some
sheetrock skills where you canbuild you a box, and angle that
in right, which no one's goingto do so that's why?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
yeah well, so that's why I wanted to show.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I love these, yeah, so that one now that one.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Now that's a Focal brand.
I mean, I wasn't necessarilylooking for Focal brand.
There's a couple of otherbrands that make them like this,
but this actually does angle itin already for you.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
And, if I'm not mistaken, those are set at 30
degrees.
I believe they are supposed tobe at that 30 degree angle to
the listener, and so what youwant to turn them in so that
they're pointing towards yourmain listening.
Don't just put them to wherethey're.
They're firing in and down,because then you're still
missing the point.
You want to turn them in just alittle bit and get that angle
(42:12):
right as well.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, you want to make sure you get that listening
position Take advantage of thatspeaker.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
That's a bad-ass speaker there.
These also are not too bad.
This is what I was talkingabout earlier.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You take like a bookshelf speaker and just mount
it on the ceiling so those areactually very specific bookshelf
speaker company svs makes those, but they're actually already
set up to be at that 30 degreeangle.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
They have a flat mounted wall bracket so this is
typically how I build them.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
When we build atmosphere, when we build the
boxes, they'll mount us flatright to the wall already, with
the bracket comes in it.
This is super easy install,mounts flat to it and puts you
right in that perfect listeningposition, and that gives you
that idea.
We can put them up on the wallup in front of you, up above
your actual speakers, and thennot worry about having them in
the ceiling yeah, you can buyyou, uh, eight of those and be
good to go, so if you want tostay a little more basic.
(42:56):
This is like the basics.
Yeah, I don't really like thatyou know.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I mean it's if it's a dedicated room and you can
paint it black and everything'sgoing to blend in.
It's not your living room,that's, that's fine.
If you're all about sound andnot about the aesthetic at all,
it's okay, and that's probablyyour cheapest and easiest.
It's definitely gonna be thecheapest option.
Cheapest and easiest becauseyou can run some dayton audio
bookshelf speakers with those Imean you can buy those brackets,
you can.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
you can essentially use whatever cheap little
speakers you want.
Right, and use those bracketsand mount a speaker up there.
The great thing is is is it'slike, okay, I can get the effect
that I want and get this set upand really enjoy it and then
realize I need to get somebetter speakers to go in that
same spot.
Yeah, and now you've alreadygot all your wires ran and all
that stuff, so it's really easyto kind of upgrade from that.
(43:39):
But I kind of wanted to havethat starting point there.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Awesome dude, great homework brother.
That.
That that's starting pointthere.
So awesome dude creatinghomework brother.
That was awesome.
That.
That was a good talk.
I like that.
That was right up my alley man.
I loved it.
So cool.
All right guys.
Well, thanks for tuning in withus.
I'm justin, I'm neil.
This is amateur audiophile andwe will catch you on the next
one.
Take us out.
Chris Outro Music.
So here we go.
(00:42):
We're not dull, we're not dull,we're not dull.
Welcome to amateur audiophile.
(01:14):
I'm justin, I'm neil, what's up, man?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
what's going on guys?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
good yourself doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Chris, you want to give me my womp, womp, womp.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Mm-hmm, you want a womp, womp, womp.
Yeah, I want a womp, womp, wompIn.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Three, two, one.
Yeah, what's up?
All right, I just wanted tobring that back, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Today we got a pretty cool topic Neil and I have been
talking about this for a littlewhile now and so we want to
talk about the differencebetween Atmos and Well, aura 3D
and DTS, DTS-X IMAX Enhanced Imean there's so many of them to
where you go shopping for areceiver and it says all these
weird acronyms on you Like whatthe hell does that mean?
(02:03):
What is the difference?
What does it?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm gonna need you to school me a little bit, because
atmos is what I've messed withthe most yeah, so a lot of this
other stuff.
I just I haven't even screwedwith this, I don't really even
know, so you know.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oddly enough, you know, I don't know that I can
say that atmos is better thandtsx or 3d.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know, I can't, because I haven't worked with
both of them.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, you know, when you even look at the technical
specs of it all and everythinglike that, when it comes down to
nitty-gritty, the biggestdifference is it really came
down to marketing when it firstkind of took off right.
So, you know, used to, we hadDTS and DTS was your 5.1 setup
Right, right, so that's the wayit was mixed in the studio.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's what we've used for years.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's how it was recorded.
So we use DTS for the longesttime Now.
From there on, it kind of umDolby Atmos kind of came out and
they really pushed their system, their, their code essentially,
and so a lot of the big moviecompanies and stuff like that
(03:10):
kind of adapted that first.
I think it's really where thatcame into.
Oddly enough, though the salesof it sounded cool it is it
really is a selling thing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, fully enveloping sound.
It really is a selling thing.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, fully enveloping sound.
There was a long time ago Iwatched something or saw
something that was talking aboutAura 3D and how long Aura 3D
has been out.
Well, aura 3D apparently wasone of the earlier object-based
audio systems.
Yeah, it was developed overseasand they just never really
(03:50):
focused focused, I guess, onselling it and getting it out
there, and so a lot of peopledon't even know about it here.
Yeah, um, you go over to someproductions overseas, some movie
productions they actually douse aura 3d.
Um, one of the biggest thingthat aura 3d now has started
really taken off on is, uh,music.
Okay, so apparently peoplereally started using music and
mixed their music tracks with or3d in mind, which really kind
(04:13):
of brings you into a new levelof of enveloping yourself with
the music versus, you know, likeyou're just five speakers, with
all stereo coming out at thesame time.
So so I got some stuff, uh,prepared to kind of show some
differences.
One of the biggest differences,though when we talk about what
is the real differences betweenall of these, you know, in the
(04:34):
end of the day, all of themreally achieve very similar
things, or the same thing.
There there's minutedifferences on it.
The biggest difference is that,did you really see?
Is what is the recommendedsetup from the developer right?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
yeah.
What was it tuned for?
What the sound engineers andeverything like?
What were they intending it tobe played on?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
and so that is one of the things that dolby atmos has
has an advantage on, because itdoes have a lot of flexibility
as well as DTS-X right, and thatis one thing where Aura 3D kind
of left off there's not a lotof movies to watch.
No, it's not the movies I'mtalking about the setup we're
talking about, like the, theconfiguration of your speakers.
(05:19):
Aura 3D is very specific in theway they want you to set up the
speakers whereas Atmos.
So if you set up the speakersWhereas Atmos, so if you set up
your system for that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
that's all you're going to be using, so a good
receiver.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I mean going back to what we've talked about in the
past, like your, your trend offaltitude, you know they're.
They're so advanced that it,once you configure everything
correctly, it can really kind ofup mix to whatever you want to.
But the biggest thing that I'veseen is if you set your system
up for Aura 3D, it'll work bestfor all three of them, versus if
(05:55):
you set your system up for,like Atmos in a certain way, it
will not work well for Aura 3D.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, so if you set up for Aura, it will work for
DTS and Atmos, correct.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So I got a couple, uh , couple, screenshots here.
Um, so, one of the first oneshere, number one okay, that's
not, that's not number one.
So this is probably the basicsetup that most people would
recognize, right, right?
So we got three differentoptions here.
(06:27):
You got a 5.1.2.
And so you got the first setupthere is with the speakers that
fire up and then come back downon you, which is probably the
simplest thing you could install, because you don't have to put
overhead speakers in the ceilingright, so that's huge there.
Now the second setup would behaving that, but with the
ceiling right, so that that'shuge there.
Now, the second setup would behaving that, but with the
(06:49):
ceiling speaker.
So you got your bed layer five,center, right, your five
speakers, you got your threefronts, your two surrounds and
then two up above you and thenthe.
The third one basically does itwith a 4.1, 5.1.4.
So you're giving yourself fouroverheads?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, it looks like those are upfiring.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It is upfiring again, so I kind of want to talk about
the differences there too.
So when you really experiencethe upfiring stuff, I've
listened to some upfiringspeakers and it is so hard to
get an upfiring speaker to soundcorrectly, so personally I
would shy away from using those.
Just because your room has tobe absolutely perfect.
(07:33):
You have to be calibrated andset up 100% correctly to be able
to get the correct effectcoming from the speaker bouncing
off and coming back down to you.
So you got time alignment anddistance alignment, right and
perfect angle alignment yeah,and then there's really one seat
(07:55):
.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well, it's also going to get dispersed even more once
it reflects right, and soyou're going to have even more
dispersion, more reflections.
It's a lot harder to controlwhere that sound is going.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So you know, now you're talking about the
engineering side of things.
Of course.
You know we'll kind of touch onthe base with you in a second.
We'll just install that side ofthings.
And I think sometimes there's alittle bit of a disconnect
there too, like what's easier toinstall or what looks better,
but what is actually theoriginal intent.
So that was kind of like ourfirst basic setup right, like, I
would say, a good startingpoint 5.1.2.
(08:32):
If you can start there, it'sgreat.
So now I want to go to thesecond image here.
So this just kind of steps outof that one, right, yeah, and so
one of the things that I wantto point out on these two here
specifically is so you got a7.1.6 with an overhead speaker
mix setup or you got alloverheads.
(08:55):
So on the first image you'llsee there's actually some height
speakers up at the top, rightnext to the TV, right or next to
the screen, your front heights.
So they're front heights, sotheir front heights, which?
but not technically overheadcorrect, they're not technically
overheads but from therethere's been some some
controversy there.
I guess too right, because youtalk about the ease of
(09:17):
installation and the purpose ofit right.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, it's a lot easier than putting speakers in
or on the ceiling.
It is a lot like you just movethem up the wall and screw them
into a stud and mount them, justlike you do your surrounds.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Right, but that's not even the important part.
So this is one of the biggestthings that you'll see is like
your seating position is in themiddle of the room, so now
you've got some front heightsthat are firing straight down.
Are you going to hear those?
Or how good are you going tohear those?
Or how good are you going tohear those as an overhead effect
of your seating position?
being further back so that's whynot because it's not really
(09:52):
overhead exactly, just kind ofup and forward so that that
second image was really isreally my favorite configuration
to having two overheads rightup above me and then front
heights and rear heights.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's what I prefer, if your room is big enough to
allow for it.
That's where you get that realdome effect, to where you're
actually being completelysurrounded overhead with the
sounds, because, as things aregoing overhead in the movie,
you're going to notice thatthey're traveling up and over,
so like it's coming from thefront and it's going over your
(10:27):
head.
Well, if you've just got twospeakers, it's all coming from
one spot.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Right, or even if you have the four speakers right,
but your seating position is inthe middle and then your two
speakers are behind you and infront of you there's a gap in
the middle.
There's a gap and they'refiring straight down Right.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So it's kind of hard to point those at you.
That's where it's alsoimportant, especially with
atmospeakers, is to aim yourspeakers right.
Like I, I prefer theatmospeakers like the front one
should be aimed in and forward,the the middle one should be
aimed in towards the listeningarea and then, you know, the
rear one should be aimed in andforward, and they should also be
most likely if, if it's at allpossible, the same width as your
left and your right.
They should be in alignment,they shouldn't be too close
(11:10):
together and they shouldn't betoo wide.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
As perfect as you can get it correct.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Now the last Atmos setup that I wanted to show is
basically like, probably theballer setup that you could go,
which is the nine, the nextimage.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Okay there, so you got 9.1.6 yeah, so you've got
your six overheads plus yourfront heights.
So now, no, you've got extra.
What you got?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
ultra wides so well, no, this one here, you still got
your left side, okay, you gotyour heights in front of you and
your heights behind you, andthen your elevation is right up
above you, right versus thesecond image.
You're still doing the six, sixheights, but they're all just
straight up above you, so you'renot getting that that same
effect coming down to thatseating position, because, if
you see, the center heights arethe only two that are sitting
(11:58):
over that couch.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Now, all of these images, of course, talking about
ideal world situations, right,and that that's kind of one of
the the hard parts with a lot ofthese setups is it's so hard to
set this up for more than oneperson.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, parts with a lot of these setups is it's so
hard to set this up for morethan one person?
Yeah, because you said youalways want to point these at
your listening position yeah, soa lot of times the best you're
going to get is two seats right.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So so having that does allow you to get a little
bit more maneuverability,because you do have total of
nine bed layers and sixoverheads, so that does give you
a little bit more room to playwith.
Um, and that was one of thethings that, uh, again going
back to that trino system, thatthey really kind of come out and
said, okay, well, we want to goall out with this is most
(12:42):
people don't notice, but the thedolby atmos system does with
this.
The mixing track, the trackthat comes from the movies, yeah
, is actually mixed in 32channels yeah which is crazy.
But well, it's made for a movietheater right, but I mean still
32 channels, that's, that'sintense well, if you go to a
movie theater, I mean all your,your side and rear surrounds.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There's not two on the sides and two in the rear,
there's four, five, six,depending on the size of the
theater, because there's so manyseats in there.
You've got a couple of hundredseats and so everybody.
They're trying to tune it towhere everybody's going to kind
of hear the same thing, right,and so it's harder to do.
But that's also why you can geta better sound at home, because
everything is targeted to onemain seat 100, you know you can
(13:28):
get much better bass managementand all that stuff there so
that's why I prefer watching amovie at home than going to the
theater, anyways.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Well, and that and a couple other reasons.
I guess the only thing my wifealways complains about is the
popcorn at home or at thetheater.
She wants that theater pop like, yeah, the unlimited butter
machine, I don't care I don'tcare what kind of popcorn you
make at home, it's just never asgood as it is at a movie
theater.
Apparently, I'm not a real biglike popcorn guy.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean neither, I don't.
I'm not not like that type ofpopcorn.
Like my dad always madehomemade popcorn in in a kettle,
I could tell us about thepopcorn.
Bro, it's, it's killer.
Yeah, popcorn anyways my dadmakes the best popcorn in the
world, so I don't really careabout the popcorn.
(14:15):
I like the candy, right, I'm amuncher.
So yeah, with with atmos, Ithink where a lot of people
screw up is is they don't placethe speakers properly.
Um, they start going withoverhead speakers and they think
just getting them up there isall you need, and then they'll a
lot of times you'll see themway too wide, too far out and
then again they're just straightdown firing instead of actually
being angled, and you thinkabout, like a lot of people are
(14:38):
pretty good about angling intheir bed layer speakers like
they should, but then theyforget about it when they go up
top and they think, well, oh,it's just extra noise from up
top just to give a little bit of, you know, ambiance sound or
whatever, and they don't anglethem properly.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And it does to a point.
And the problem that you alsonotice is when people do it that
way, they listen to it and theyjust be like eh, it really
didn't change that much.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, I'm not that impressed.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm not impressed.
Where's all the hype comingfrom?
I can't tell that it's there orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So then they start cranking up the height speakers
and all that stuff.
So you're, you're overpoweringthem to give yourself the
compensate because you set themup right, right, exactly, yeah,
it's.
It's a very tricky thing likeyou've got.
Uh, when I set up atmospeakers,I'm, I'm bringing out the
protractor, the string, like I,I like to set a um, like I'll
usually build some kind of standwith um, like a ball or
something, or a box or whatever,where the center ear height is
going to be, and then I, Imeasure out all the angles and
(15:41):
then run strings exactly whereit's going to go, so all the
angles are exactly the same allright, but that's that's.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Uh, that's kind of the odd person out for for an
installer, because mostinstallers don't necessarily
think of the, the audio, thatmuch more of the appeal and the
look that's the differencebetween the speakers.
How can I make it look the best?
Yeah, right, and where am Igoing to put the speakers to be
the most seamless?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
well, that's the difference in just an installer
and somebody that actuallydesigns layouts right they, they
don't think about they, they.
They think about like oh, theybought these speakers, I need to
put them in and they should gothere and there and that looks
pretty good.
And, like you said, put them ina place where they look good.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Center with the room.
Right yeah, you want, you wanteverything to look kind of
squared off or whatever.
So you center it with the room.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
They're never going to be centered in the room,
because your seating position isnot going to be centered in the
room, correct, you know your.
Your seating position shouldnever be all the way back
against the wall and it shouldnever be in the middle of the
room.
It's typically going to beabout two thirds of the way back
, is going to be your prime seat, and so those, those six Atmos
speakers, should be in the backhalf of the theater typically,
(16:46):
or you know, it's the back twothirds at least.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Right.
So that's why I'm saying havingthe front heights and the rear
heights makes it so much better.
Anyways, in my opinion and I Ithink that's a, because now you
can actually put the speakers upabove your front stage, because
in the system it doesn't saythe sound is forward five feet
and then up.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, it just goes up first right, right, and then it
starts kind of moving backwardsand so yeah, if you don't have
those front heights, there's ahuge gap between your center
channel and your left and rightbefore you get to your Atmos
speakers, yeah, and then alsofrom your front uh, your front
soundstage to your sidesurrounds.
There's a huge gap there aswell.
(17:29):
So if you can add front heightsand extra wides, you're really
covering all of that which Imean at that point.
With six Atmos speakers, you'regetting into 17 speakers at
that point, and then you'retalking extra processors and
amps and you know four morespeakers and all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And that's in an ideal world, um, obviously, but
so, and that's one thing I want,I kind of want to point point
out Actually.
So the 7.1.6, if I'm notmistaken, the latest Denon
receiver, which is the 3800,actually supports that many
speakers.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
The 4800 does.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No the 3800.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The 3800 will the 3800 is the smallest, the
smallest one you can get, thecheapest Denon receiver that
they offer in their lineup.
That has 13 power channels andit now has 13 power channels.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, 13 power channels plus two additional
channels.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
You can hook up an m2 yes, you can also run front
heights with that, if you havean external amp so yeah that's
pretty baller.
Yeah, the last dinner I did wasthe 4800 and it was 13 power
channels and it's more thanenough 100 especially for the
size room that we put in.
I think the room was like 22 by14 and it only had two rows of
seats.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So we had seven, seven seats total and it was
more than enough so, uh, goingforward, now let's, uh, let's
pull up the, the next, uh nextimage here which kind of goes
into um aura 3d.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now okay, so this is something that I'm not uh 100
familiar with.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So so this is something that aura completely
changed and does differently.
Um, so when you look at it, yousee that one lonely speaker in
the top, yeah, and so that islike literally your only above
speaker that or does and in intheir setup they actually call
it the voice of god becomes.
It comes straight from aboveyou, okay, and the the argument
(19:11):
that Aura kind of wants to bringin to saying that that speaker
is not as important as some ofthe other speakers is because of
the way our ears are designedand we really don't hear
anything directly from above.
Our ears are kind of focusedmore around us in a pattern.
So when you look at that image,it talks about angles and
(19:32):
degrees.
So when you look at that image,it talks about angles and
degrees.
So it wants to put everyspeaker at a certain degree,
facing you in a very specificangle.
So all your height level wouldbe in front of you and behind
you, specifically pointed at a30 degrees to the listening
(19:53):
position is optimal which isoptimal situation, so they
always want that 30 degree angle.
Though, regardless of what youdo, regardless how big the room
is, which you should be doingwith the atmos setup, too, hey,
but the other atmos, most peoplejust put the ceilings in the
ceiling.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So how do you?
Why they mess?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
up?
How are you going to set thisup on a 30 degree angle when
they're in the ceiling?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
well, you have to get a speaker that has a tweeter,
or a speaker that is tiltedinside the box, or you build
your own box, like I typicallydo, or you can take your
bookshelf speakers and mountthem to the ceiling, just like
you would your Shrouds.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
There's ways around it and I'm glad you're bringing
that up, because at the very endof some of these I got a couple
sweet couple of speakers that Ijust kind of took Not, I'm not
trying to like say brandspecific, yeah, these are just a
couple that.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I just found.
No, there's some brands that dothat great.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I know.
So there was just a couple thatI wanted to show, but so that
that's kind of where where Aurareally sets itself apart and
that's why I'm saying does.
But when you do the aura setup,yeah, it kind of fits in with
that most of yeah, yeah, I seewhat you're saying now and it's
something that is is verydebated in the in the industry.
(21:02):
Really, to be honest with you,yeah and, at the same time, it's
not something that's talkedabout with the more average
people so there's like notmarketed as much it's not
marketed at all.
So there there's your leadest.
I guess that really know aboutthe stuff, that know how this
all works, and then there's.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, you're just getting into that world where
it's all custom because, like,even with an atmos system that's
six overhead speakers if you'rejust hiring a basic installer
to put this in, it's never goingto sound good because they're
not like to properly set them upand install them the right way.
It's a full.
It's nine times out of 10 goingto be a really custom install
(21:37):
and if you're just hiring youknow Magnolia store or whatever
Best Buy, they're not going tohave that capability and you're
not paying that premium price tohave it installed properly.
So to actually get an Atmossystem that is set up the right
way, the speakers that areangled the right way, designed
the right way, everything,you're either having a full
(21:57):
custom build or you're doing ityourself, which is a lot of the
guys that we talk to that have.
These systems are set up right,they're building them
themselves, just like you and Iare, and so that's I think
that's where Atmos gets a badrap is the majority of people
that are buying these systems.
They're just having them put inby just normal installers and
(22:17):
they're just slapping them inand they're not getting the
benefit.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And not just that.
Even worse, and I hate when Isee it, because I'll go to, like
you know, best Buy, walmart,whatever, and they have a
soundbar sitting there that saysit's a 7.4.
And I'm like it's a sound bar.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, yeah, but we're bouncing sound off the
wall.
So it has one singular speakerand if you would unwrap that
sound bar, you can see thatthere is a bunch of speakers
pointed in all kinds ofdifferent directions to bounce
it off the wall.
Bounced it off the wall andagain, who's got that setup
that's going to make thesethings bounce off the wall?
(22:54):
To where the sound comes from,where the sound engineer
designed the?
sound to come from in the movie?
Nobody, it sounds like crap.
So, uh, moving on to the.
The next one is just anotherexample for the aura 3d setup,
just kind of a bigger speakersetup, um, just adding an
additional set of layers there.
So this is a 13.1, essentiallyright.
(23:14):
So that actually gives you fivebed layers.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Chris, can we bring that up full screen so I can see
it a little better?
There we go, all right.
So kind of break this downbetter for me, like where is
your?
Where are you sitting in thissetup, right in the middle?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Right in the middle right, where that dot is at yeah
, 100%, they want to be in thatmiddle.
Right in the middle right,where that dot is at yeah, 100,
they want to be in that middle.
So the other thing you'llnotice too is that the center is
set further back than yourfront and left right, because
they want that encompassingexactly.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
yeah, well, that's what I was saying, like on the
last episode, when, when I setup my left and right, they're
never the same distance from thesidewall back, like they're not
in a straight line across theback wall.
I like to have them kind of onan axis like that to where the
distance from the middle seatingposition is the same, so as you
(24:01):
go, as you go out to your leftand right, the speakers are
coming in and forward.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But I promise you, most people wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
They push them right up against the wall I mean, even
if you pull them off the wallbecause their wife tells them
they have to well, I understandthat.
But so you pull them away fromthe, from the wall for one or
two feet right, which, yeah, forsound, ideally you do want to
have them at least, at leastminimum, I'd say 12 to 14 inches
away from the wall.
Yeah, but all you do is you towthem in, yeah, but you're not
moving them inwards, so you'renot having your center further
(24:29):
back and then pulling your frontleft out into the middle of the
room, so to create thatcurvature right.
But again, for aura 3d, theywant that 30 degree offset from
everything, so everything's kindof set up in that 30 degree
angle, and I think that's whyone of the reasons why aura
didn't make it as far in thatfield, because it's just harder
(24:51):
to accomplish this yeah, it'sharder to do that like in a
living room setup, becauseyou're gonna have speakers just
out in the middle of your inyour room so now you run into an
issue, of course, where all thethe movie makers make it and
either dolby atmos or dtsx andor it's kind of left off to the
sideline, right.
So you know, with that there'sbeen a huge debate of should you
(25:14):
take a receiver that can use ordo Aura 3D and up-mix that.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So you take a Dolby Atmos track and up-mix it to
Aura 3D and does that soundbetter, or are you better off
leaving it on the Dolby Atmosmix in my opinion, just based on
what I'm seeing here, thatyou're showing me from what I
like to do it's kind of how Ilike to set up my speakers
(25:42):
anyways is keep that same angle,and it's almost like in a
circle as it is, and I think itsounds better that way, using
Atmos and DTX.
So, yeah, I would think that ifyou're setting it up for Aura
and then you're listening totracks that are meant for Atmos
and DTSX, it's going to soundbetter because your, your setup
(26:03):
is already going to be better tobegin with.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So so you're saying you are going to up mix and
that'll sound better.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I think so because I think your speakers are going to
be placed more optimally.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So you know, and that's one thing that I wish I
could experience for myself,yeah, I've, I've watched some
other people kind of talk aboutthis and say that they tried it
and they thought it soundedbetter, and then other people
say, no, it sounds worse.
It's just, it's overpowering thethe height speakers now, and I
feel like there's too muchcoming from up top yeah and so
that's one thing that I,personally, really would love to
(26:33):
play with one day, but it'sgoing to come down to personal
preference in your tuning wellthat, and of course you have to
have the right equipment to beable to do it, like my receiver
I don't have, or 3d optionreceiver anyways, yeah, um, I do
know that all I think the newthe 4800, I think, has it in it
I think I think there was anoption in that, but we were
doing an atmos setup.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
But, like I said, the way that I kind of usually lay
out my speakers, yeah, but see,you didn't even know, it's like
a mix.
I didn't even know because Ihadn't even looked into it.
That's just how I prefer to doit and and that's due to
marketing, right?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
yeah, because all the marketing has been dolby atmos,
dolby, atmos, dolby yeah,here's the, here's the, the
layout, here's the map.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Follow it and this is how you should lay it out,
because this is what our studiolooks like Exactly, and, from
what I've heard, it's typicallynot how it's actually set up,
anyways.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean, if you ever watched one of those, if
you ever looked at a video of amixing studio, it's wild the way
they look.
They really do have it set uplike that picture, almost, with
like there's like a desk with amonitor sitting in the middle of
the room and they're likeencompassed in a circular avenue
.
Yeah, exactly those mixingstudios.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's how they do it .
It's everything is equidistantaround and it's.
It's all at the same angle fromside to side, so you don't have
any dead zones, you're nothaving sound that's getting
skipped from your front, left toyour, to your, uh, your side
surround, because there's such abig gap and so everything is is
better set up equally aroundyou that's optimal like so.
(27:54):
You can't do that in a livingroom.
I mean, what are you gonna haveone recliner in the very middle
of your living room and thenjust speakers all the way around
?
Heck, yeah, I mean, if you'resingle for the rest of your life
yeah, you can have that.
Nobody's wife's gonna put upwith that crap she don't like
watching the same movies anywaythat's where you need to buy a,
uh, a storage shed from it andconvert it, to convert it to a
(28:15):
theater.
Then you set it up however youwant to.
I mean, I've always wantedsomething like that, where it's
just literally just for me likemaybe a love seat, at the very
most just like two, two seats,because, uh, I think that's how
it's going to sound the bestyeah, I mean two to three seats.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I think I think you can set up a system very good
for three seats.
Um, I think you get a littlebit more complex when you say,
like, if you do dedicated hometheater and you get into adding
multiple rows into the system,um, I think you're getting a
little bit more complex there.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I think the problem where you really run into issues
with making everything soundgood with multiple seats is when
you have a smaller room and themore seats you add, the closer
you're getting to those sidespeakers and the surround
speakers, so the closer you get.
So if you're sitting off to theright the very far right chair
and you've got a surroundspeaker that's two feet off of
(29:04):
your head and then your leftsurround is 10 feet off your
head over there, now you'regetting blasted.
Yeah, you're getting blastedover here, and this is all you
can hear.
So if you've got a room bigenough to where you can still
keep everything spaced outoptimally that's where it's it's
going to be it's just reallyhard to sit closer to the walls.
So if your room's 12 to 15 feetwide, it's going to be really
(29:24):
hard to have more than threepeople in one room.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
And two at that point is still optimal.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So now to the last one, and the last one kind of
goes into two avenues.
Actually we mentioned DTS-X andwe mentioned IMAX Enhanced, and
actually I don't know that alot of people realize this, but
the IMAX Enhanced was somethingthat uses the DTS codec, but it
basically tried to do somethinglike they did with Dolby Vision.
(29:52):
You got Dolby Atmos and DolbyVision, so with the IMAX
enhanced that really justsupposed to bring in the image
side of it to correlate with theaudio soundtrack, like Dolby
did.
So that was kind of theiranswer to that.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
But so we're going to the next image.
This is like your basic DTSXsetup.
You'll see, that is the flatsetup, the way they suggest to
do it.
Now, of course, we're talkingabout those height speakers
again, and when you look at this, this looks almost identical to
what your basic Atmos setup isyeah.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Look at the gap between your left surround and
your front left.
Look how big that gap is whereit's just a dead zone in there
so, and that's that was onething.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That goes with tuning again, right, and I don't think
that's an issue, I think youcan fix all that with tuning.
You know, you got the tone inthe back, which is fine, and
there again we got that straightline across the front with the
speakers, with your speakersjust towed in that 30 degrees to
get you back onto thatlistening position, right but I
(31:00):
still feel like, optimally, youmove that couch forward a little
bit and you're almost in themiddle, and then you move those
side surrounds up and then Ilike everything to be in a
straight line.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So you see, like the the front left to the rear right
, how it comes in and then kicksout.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But but think about, like most people set up like I
mean, how much room are yougoing to waste and if you want
to be able to have a big enoughof a screen, so at what point am
I going to say, well, I want tobe further in the middle to
optimize my speakers to the rear, or I want to sit further back
to be able to have a biggerscreen?
And enjoy the larger screen.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, that's where I think, with a setup like that,
the optimal thing to do is toput ultra wide, uh, extra wides
in to to cut that distancebetween your, your left surround
and your front left, and Ithink that's where wides come in
really well.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Wides is really an offset.
Offset, though, I mean that'sreally well.
Wide is really an offset,though I mean that's kind of an
oddball.
There's not a lot of people todo them, unless you have a
really, really large room.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, if you've got a narrow long room and you're
looking front to back, it'sreally hard to do it because you
can't get any wider than thatwall.
So that's really your odd manout, to be honest with you, it
really is, and typically you'regoing to have a window or a door
there or something in you knowuh, in an actual house where
(32:16):
you're not having just adedicated theater room.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Now so you get limited.
Now, one of the things that wassupposed to be really cool with
dtsx is that the way theprocessing works.
It says, well, this is yourideal setup, but in reality do
whatever you want.
And I say that in an extremekind of way.
But they're basically sayingthat their calibration setup is
so good that they can compensate, as long as everything is set
(32:41):
up correctly, that they cancompletely offset speaker
placement by using the rightcodec and the right mixing
platform to still give you theimpression that everything's
coming from where it's supposedto be coming from.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
To a degree, I mean, I feel like it's a percentage
thing.
It is Like they can onlycompensate, like such a
percentage to where you get pastthe point where your setup is
so bad they can't compensate forit.
And the better your setup is,the higher of a percentage
you're going to get.
You see what I'm saying of apercentage you're going to get.
You see what I'm saying, yeah,like you're going to get the
most optimal.
(33:14):
So like, yeah, they cancompensate for a little bit, but
a better laid out system, abetter setup for speaker
placement is always going tosound better, always so I mean
absolutely, I agree with thatstatement there.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Um so, so the next one here, and this this kind of
goes.
So you see the imax enhancedright.
So this is kind of what I wastalking about.
It's the same setup as yourregular dtsx right so they they
kind of really put that in thesame thing.
I think that illustration kindof has those speakers up a
little high maybe, um, butthat's kind of where they want
them to be, I guess are thosehigh speakers up in the corners?
(33:53):
Those are your high speakers upin the corner, so which really
goes.
So there's nothing overhead,really like nothing, like right
above you which, again, if youpoint those speakers down, you
will get a better immersiveheight effect than you would
having those in the ceilingdirectly yeah so.
So now going to the next one, Ishould be the the dtx, uh, the
(34:14):
pro no, and this is somethingthat up big, so I can really
this is something that mostpeople don't even know about
exists.
I don't think, to be honest withyou, and I kind of want to show
the difference side by sidethere.
So you got your dtsx setupright, which again we're talking
about your.
You know your five bed layersor your seven bed layers with
your four heights, and now thedtx pro can take that into new
(34:36):
level and really bring in awhole bunch of more speakers and
and the acronym is thissomething that's like a you're
gonna need a trinov receiver yes, to run this you would have to
have.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
How many speakers is this?
I can't even count them all um,I'm not.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I'm not sure exactly how many speakers is this?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I can't even count them all.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I'm not.
I'm not sure exactly how manyspeakers.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Good Lord, I didn't give it a countdown, but Okay.
So are the different colorsdifferent heights?
Yes, so, like the orangespeakers, are your bed, your bed
layer, correct?
And then the blue is what Up,like up the wall.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I think, actually, if I'm not mistaken.
I think the next image willwill illustrate this a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
So I got.
Can I see like a picture of,like an actual holy crap?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So that that kind of supposed to give you a little
bit different view of it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So it does look like those blue speakers are like up
the top of the wall.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And the green is overhead overhead.
Wow, that's crazy.
So it gives you like multiplelayers to really to really get
that full motion, like if youhave an airplane taking off it
really does, yeah, go from onelevel to the next level, to the
next level and you like, have tohave a curved screen I don't
think you'd have to have a curveman to like really get the
(35:46):
effect like you really need likea curved screen there.
I mean, now we're talking likefull IMAX movie screen.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Hey, man, it's if you can afford all these fricking
speakers.
I mean again, how many speakersis this?
One, two, three, I don't know,it's like 24 or something.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Well, I mean ideally, the Trinov does support 32
speakers.
That's nuts man.
And I just got one more image,really kind of displaying the
same thing.
I just kind of wanted to.
Where do we have to go?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
to hear one of these.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I don't know.
I don't know if there's anyoneclose by.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Put the camera on me.
Chris, whoever has a setup likethis, please get ahold of us.
We will travel to wherever youare.
I want to hear this crap.
I want to hear this in person,because 15 channels is the most
I've gotten to hear.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So this kind of just encompassed that that image
again one more time it lookslike a math problem.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I feel like I'm in calculus again, so again, just
kind of showing those layersright.
And in a better way.
Yeah, I can really really kindof grasp it.
This is like my wet dream.
I mean, this is like you.
If you turn me loose with nobudget and a room to just do
whatever I wanted to, that'spretty much what I would come up
with.
Yeah, I mean that's like I.
I mean that's your dome.
(36:58):
It is a dome of speakers, likeyou can't get any better than
that.
There's there's there's noempty space there.
There.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
There's no huge gaps, there's no dead zones, like
nothing, like that so, and thatthat is again going back to what
I said earlier with dtsx, isthat it tries to compensate and
mix up a lot of things, right,yeah?
So again with the dtsx pro, andhere's a, an example that shows
that.
There you go, how thatprocessing is supposed to work.
Um, it is supposed to be ableto take a, a more basic mix and
(37:31):
up, mix that into that dtsx pro.
That's crazy man.
So so this is probablysomething like the two, like I
said, you know, the dtsx pro andthe war 3d.
If you don't look for thisstuff, you never, you never find
it, you don't know it's outthere, like I.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I mean, this stuff is just like lived in my head
forever, like, hey, I want tocreate a dome of speakers, but
like I never really even lookedinto it because it never pops up
.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Let's be honest, it doesn't pop up on my youtube
feed and so one more thing withthe dts pro 2, there's actually
an option to have a lower levelspeaker.
So, and that's, I don't knowthat I've ever seen that yet.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Right, but I that's what I was asking you about
earlier to my understanding thatexists right.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I've never personally seen it.
I've always wondered that to tomy understanding is they have a
lower set of speakers that youcan set up to be down low, so
that way if you have a scenethat goes from top to bottom and
right below your eye level,yeah, I mean, think about you're
watching a movie where your um,your point of view is from a
helicopter, or you're watchingan avatar, where you're, you're
(38:35):
flying through and there's soundgoing underneath you.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Well, you don't talk about dead zones.
In a theater Like the, the, theentire floor is a dead zone
because there's no sound comingfrom it.
But sometimes in movies, you'rein the air from your point of
view and there's sound happeningunderneath you.
So why has nobody come up withspeakers that come up and angle
up at you?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I mean, I mean really like, think about it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I mean, even if you're like you're, you're in a
movie scene where you're on aboat and something splashes in
the water down below you likewhere's that sound actually
coming from?
I mean like your center channel.
Usually you know and you cantell it's not coming from below
where you're looking at.
Yeah, I mean that's true,that's true.
So I mean, if you're in, if, ifyou've got a setup like this
(39:20):
where you've got 32 freakingspeakers, like you've got the
money to kind of build whateveryou want to, at that point, like
let's talk about like you'regoing to have your seats are
going to be on a riser anyways.
So, why not bump that riser up afew more feet and then have
some speakers down in the floorpointing up at you, because
you're not putting any furniturebetween your first row and the
screen anyways, which istypically about half of your
(39:42):
room anyways, like you're notusing that space for anything
sidebar question.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
You got 32 speakers.
How many subs you got?
Speaker 1 (39:49):
you better have like 24 man, and they should all be
in the corners right I'm goingwith.
I'm going with eight speakers.
No, let's see, I'm going withuh 12 subwoofers bottom, top and
center of every single corner.
I don't know that that's.
(40:12):
We're shaking the neighborhoodyeah yeah, and then I'm doing
one infinite baffle in theceiling.
Speaking of which, I saw some,uh some pictures in that
infinite baffle group.
Uh, the other day they wereputting them in the floor for
houses that had crawl spaces andusing the crawl space as the
baffle, and so they built thespeakers opposing to each other,
(40:33):
dropped the box in the floorand then put a metal grate on it
, so it looks like an air return.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I don't think I want an air return on my floor,
though.
Anyways.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
No, it's not an actual air return.
It's just a speaker box, but itlooks like an air return and
that's where all your bass iscoming from.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I don't know.
I'd rather have it in theceiling than with the floor.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
personally, Well, it depends on what your setup is.
If you've got a two-story house, you can't put it in the
ceiling.
Yeah, that's true.
Again, it goes back to whereyour dedicated room is.
That's true, dude affirmative.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
So so I got I got just a couple more images, and
these are just quick images.
Um, I just kind of want toshout talk about a couple more
speakers, so to show some ofthese different options I've
talked about, let's hit thesereal quick.
So those are just a couplequick options.
So this would be like our basicin-ceiling speaker yes this
would be the the most commonthing that people would go with
simple, you just plop up inthere and you're done.
(41:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
That would be probably the only one that I
would say is, if you're going toput it in, that one has to go
right up above you it's got togo right over above you unless
you've got some uh, somecarpenter skills or some
sheetrock skills where you canbuild you a box, and angle that
in right, which no one's goingto do so that's why?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
yeah well, so that's why I wanted to show.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I love these, yeah, so that one now that one.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Now that's a Focal brand.
I mean, I wasn't necessarilylooking for Focal brand.
There's a couple of otherbrands that make them like this,
but this actually does angle itin already for you.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
And, if I'm not mistaken, those are set at 30
degrees.
I believe they are supposed tobe at that 30 degree angle to
the listener, and so what youwant to turn them in so that
they're pointing towards yourmain listening.
Don't just put them to wherethey're.
They're firing in and down,because then you're still
missing the point.
You want to turn them in just alittle bit and get that angle
(42:12):
right as well.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, you want to make sure you get that listening
position Take advantage of thatspeaker.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
That's a bad-ass speaker there.
These also are not too bad.
This is what I was talkingabout earlier.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
You take like a bookshelf speaker and just mount
it on the ceiling so those areactually very specific bookshelf
speaker company svs makes those, but they're actually already
set up to be at that 30 degreeangle.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
They have a flat mounted wall bracket so this is
typically how I build them.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
When we build atmosphere, when we build the
boxes, they'll mount us flatright to the wall already, with
the bracket comes in it.
This is super easy install,mounts flat to it and puts you
right in that perfect listeningposition, and that gives you
that idea.
We can put them up on the wallup in front of you, up above
your actual speakers, and thennot worry about having them in
the ceiling yeah, you can buyyou, uh, eight of those and be
good to go, so if you want tostay a little more basic.
(42:56):
This is like the basics.
Yeah, I don't really like thatyou know.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I mean it's if it's a dedicated room and you can
paint it black and everything'sgoing to blend in.
It's not your living room,that's, that's fine.
If you're all about sound andnot about the aesthetic at all,
it's okay, and that's probablyyour cheapest and easiest.
It's definitely gonna be thecheapest option.
Cheapest and easiest becauseyou can run some dayton audio
bookshelf speakers with those Imean you can buy those brackets,
you can.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
you can essentially use whatever cheap little
speakers you want.
Right, and use those bracketsand mount a speaker up there.
The great thing is is is it'slike, okay, I can get the effect
that I want and get this set upand really enjoy it and then
realize I need to get somebetter speakers to go in that
same spot.
Yeah, and now you've alreadygot all your wires ran and all
that stuff, so it's really easyto kind of upgrade from that.
(43:39):
But I kind of wanted to havethat starting point there.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Awesome dude, great homework brother.
That.
That that's starting pointthere.
So awesome dude creatinghomework brother.
That was awesome.
That.
That was a good talk.
I like that.
That was right up my alley man.
I loved it.
So cool.
All right guys.
Well, thanks for tuning in withus.
I'm justin, I'm neil.
This is amateur audiophile andwe will catch you on the next
one.
Take us out.
Chris Outro Music.
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