December 11, 2023 • 49 mins
On this episode of America Stories, Jeff, Luke, and Jack discuss the origin of Christmas in the colonies and traditions in American celebration of the holiday. We talk about classic Christmas activities like dressing up as demons and doing some drunken late night caroling. The ban on Christmas, and how the modern railroad may have played a large part in spreading various cultural traditions and formed the eclectic mixture of customs we know today.
Join us as we discuss parties, food, drink and even a poem that encapsulates the heartfelt, somber, yet hopeful time of year. We even ask the question. "How does Jesus fit into all of this?" We may not have an answer but we certainly ask.
So grab a sugar cookie and sip some hot cocoa because it's time for a Christmas episode of America Stories!
Join us as we discuss parties, food, drink and even a poem that encapsulates the heartfelt, somber, yet hopeful time of year. We even ask the question. "How does Jesus fit into all of this?" We may not have an answer but we certainly ask.
So grab a sugar cookie and sip some hot cocoa because it's time for a Christmas episode of America Stories!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
What you're gonna do brother, whenJeff Townsend Media runs wild on you.
America Stories. All right, allright, all right, this is another
(00:28):
episode of America Stories. I'm Jeff, their Luke and Jack. He has
the C capitalized in his name.Yeah yeah, yeah. Every week,
like I say, he thinks it'sreally cute to modify his name in different
ways. So today it's that wayanyways. So yeah, welcome to America
Stories, the podcast where we coverAmerican history in a light, fun hearted
(00:51):
yet educational manner. And speaking ofwhich, so we've been going along the
timeline here. We talked about thedf I the last couple of weeks,
the Deck of the Deck of IndieIndependence. I thought that sounded cool.
But since the holiday season is approachingus and Luke is the ever loving Christmas
(01:14):
he is not the a umbug.He loves Christmas, so he has done
some research here we're going to talkabout I guess really like Christmas history for
it like a pretty lengthynt like goingway back in American history. Correct,
Yeah, this is going to beChristmas history from the founding colonies up until
(01:37):
eighteen seventy. It's a true thatthere's there was purging then kind of.
Actually, some of the old Christmastraditions are pretty weird, and I'm looking
forward to going over this. Theymight classify something that could all be done
during the annual purge, that's whatyou're saying. Yeah, it's almost it's
almost that level. It's almost,say, I don't know, I don't
(01:57):
know if it's quite that extreme.Yeah, that might be. That might
be a little stretch. So you'regoing to kick us off here. We're
going to go into some Christmas asit relates to American history. All right,
So the first settlers in Jamestown,that first James, like Jamestown,
Virginia. Oh, okay, jamesonaa is not too far, I guess
(02:19):
said, no, it's not.So in sixteen oh three, they were
still having hard times getting set upwith the new colony, but they still
observed Christmas as a day of restin Jamestown. So in sixteen oh three
or all the way back then,it was still kind of celebrated. This
(02:40):
was extremely different from what happened inPlymouth though. Plymouth, Massachusetts, when
it was founded, was founded bythe Puritans. And the Puritans are pure,
yeah, very pure, and they'revery pure. They're staunchly against anything
that the Church of England was upto, and especially really Christmas. The
(03:00):
Puritans hated Christmas, kind of areal like Grinch on top of the mountain
type thing. It is, Ican't have that. They decided that new
arrivals to the Plymouth Colony that didn'tcome with them originally they would give the
one year to get Christmas out oftheir system, but then the next year
(03:23):
you had to fall in line withhow does they want to beat Christmas out
of their system? You're allowed tocelebrate in your home that one year,
you cannot do it outside and ifthey catch you outside playing any Christmas games
or observing any traditions, you'll befined. Is this like death or not
death? Per se? But itwas definitely a staunch fine. For the
(03:46):
time we'll write you a letter,it will be very angry. I mean,
yeah, I guess, I guessthat is a good question. It
is like like I wonder how manypeople like rebelled against it, or just
like I don't I'm doing it anyways. Taking the fine so early on,
like before a certain thing happens,it was technically you could probably get away
(04:09):
with it, and you wouldn't bein too big of a trouble. But
in the sixteen forties, the Churchof England and the monarch was overthrown by
the Puritans in England for a time. And when that happened, the Puritans
flat out outlawed Christmas allotted in Englandand they outlawed it. Here. They're
not violent people, I mean,how do you overthrow something? But they
(04:31):
were words. They were violent enough. Yeah, they were just throwing amount
of violence they were through the wholereligion they were. They were violent enough
to depose the Mark and their planon cutting his head off. All right,
people, maybe it was kind oflike the Purge. Maybe that was
(04:56):
damn Yeah, well it was.It was the Civil War in England.
The Massachusetts government and the other NewEngland colonies that were founded in those twenty
or so years, they all outlawedChristmas. Now, the southern colonies of
Virginia on downwards they did not.They didn't outlaw and they still maintained Christmas
(05:16):
traditions that were from imported from Europe. Even all the way back then,
the Germans would bring would do Christmastrees. They were the only ones though
to do it for many many years, roughly two hundred years. Why were
they against the Christmas tradition? Whatwere the Christmas traditions has to have some
(05:38):
deeper meaning, that's to get against, right. There were a lot of
traditions that they felt were too paganbecause the Christmas was co opted by the
Roman Catholic Church in four hundred ADfrom the celebration of Saturnalia that they would
celebrate in Rome by the Pagans.This was then taken over by the Christian
(06:01):
Church then and so some paganry stuffhas always been part of Christmas. And
yeah, still today. The treeitself is a pagan symbol. Little pagan
tree, little pagan tree that didn'thurt I mean a little tree didn't hurt
nobody. So it just starts withthe tree. Jack, It just starts
with the tree. It starts withthe tree. Okay, it's like a
(06:23):
slippery slope. There were two majorthings that they disagreed with, and that
was the traditions of watling and mummy. What mumming as in like the word
mummy, but it's of a whyit's I in g well, wotling.
That goes back to what the theDruidic people would do in England. They
(06:48):
would have their apple orchards and theywould make hard ciders and they would get
drunk on them, and they wouldsing songs to and treat the spirits to
protect their orchards. They would goout and they would pour cider and beer
all over the roots to ensure agood harvest next year. It's slowly merged
(07:09):
with Christmas celebrations, and they wouldthen go and sing through the town,
getting drunk and getting into fights.That's like a more extreme version of karl.
I guess yeah. The to properlywas wastle, though you had to
have a bowl of the drink waswastle. Now the words are the same,
(07:30):
but they have two different meanings.Wastling the act means in good health.
It's like toasting someone's good health.Wastling the wastle. The drink is
a corruption of the word lamb's wool, because it was made from warm beer
and apple sauce and toast, andit looked like the wool of a lamb
(07:54):
laying on top of the drink,and you would drink that down. It
doesn't sound doesn't sound very appetizing.I don't like that. I had a
little layup with my Anyway, sowhistling made its way over and to the
English the colonies. And what doesit mean when somebody has to be wastled?
That's a that's a different story fora different times. Well, if
(08:15):
you wastled somebody, you would goto their house. You would knock on
the door and you would you know, start drinking and singing in front of
their house, and they had togive you food and drink or else you
would cause some sort of mischief.You could purge them close, you could
wreck some uh, I want totalk to us about. Mumming is also
like an even crazier form of thatthough. Okay, so mumming is like
(08:39):
how we would look at trick ortreating today. You would get dressed up,
and the things people dressed up forwere ghosts or demons. There was
a horsehead demon in Welsh mythology thatthey would bring to your door a horse
and act like an actual one.Well they use an actual horse skull,
but it was like a demon thatthey created. I can't remember the name
(09:01):
of that one right now. Oh. They also dressed up in opposite genders.
This was a big thing then too. That was considered super taboo.
So like the man who addresses womenand women dresses men. And then they
also demons and stuff. And thenthey would come up to your door and
they would demand food and drink orelse they would curse you. Or technically
they said they would bless them ifthey gave it, but the implication was
(09:24):
if you didn't give food and drink, you would be cursed by evil spirits.
So this is like a game though, right, I mean, by
by the sixteen hundred, it's definitelya game. But when it started out,
it was definitely, you know,a belief, a religious belief for
the Druids. Well, I'm wondering. I'm just thinking to myself, would
I want like a roving band ofdrunk people whostling wostling every night? You
(09:48):
know, I don't know, likedress dressed up. They're full full of
adults. You know. It's notlike raising hell? Right, yeah,
raising hell and not exactly my pictureof an ideal Christmas mone but I guess,
but sounds like a lot of thestems from alcohol. I it' that's
what they're trying to say. Yeah, alcohol was definitely a big part.
Well it's still kind of a bigpart of Christmas, but it was more
(10:09):
so then. So this was,you know, behind why the Puritans outlawed
it, because it was still celebratedelsewhere, though it did continually morph a
little bit over time, drinking andyou know, basically ransacking the town in
a caroling. That kind of wentaway a little bit and it became more
(10:30):
about just having parties. In fact, Christmas was also celebrated, not for
one day. It was twelve daysof celebration starts on Christmas Day and it
goes to January sixth, which iscalled twelfth Night. Wait, so twelve
days of Christmas started on twenty fifth, Yes, it starts on the twenty
fifth, not twelve days before,and then it continues on. The Puritans
(10:52):
lost control of England after a shortperiod of time, it was about twenty
years, and then after that slowlyin the colonies. They also released their
restrictions on Christmas by sixteen eighty,but by that time a good generation of
(11:13):
people in the New England territories didn'tcelebrate Christmas, so it didn't really catch
on again there for many years.Let me let me ask you a million
dollar questions for you to continue,Yeah, when did this not? When
was this not about Jesus? Andwhen did this start becoming about Jesus again,
Yeah, because like we haven't gotany of that so far. I
(11:35):
mean, you're talking to me,you're still I mean, you're we're talking
BC times here. Jesus was Actuallythat was actually a problem that the Puritans
also had with it. They saidthat the English Church had moved away even
more from Jesus than what they originallysaid they was about. They also said
that they're nowhere in the Bible doesn'tsay when Jesus was born, so they
(11:58):
were just like saying, this istheir interpretation that it was. They just
basically they knew that the Church ofEngland and before them, the Roman Catholic
Church, had co opted a holidaythat they then declared as their own holiday,
and so they're kind of pointing outthe hypocrisy of that, is using
a pagan holiday to celebrate the birthof Jesus, and so they wanted to
(12:22):
sort of shine a light on that. They're actually, in my opinion,
they're wildly wrong in doing this though, because like, it doesn't matter if
the outcome it works in your favor, right, if more people listen to
your preaching and go to your masses, which what the Roman Catholics did.
(12:43):
They did three masses on Christmas,and people showed up for those in any
other time of year. I feellike, if you were getting people to
listen to your religion, doesn't matterif the day is a little bit wonky,
you know. I think their stanceon that was a little bit of
ridiculous. But you know, callingout the Puritans three hundred years ago,
(13:05):
I can't really say much. Yeah, so it took. Like I said,
sometime before, it was still popularin the South, but not popular
in the Massachusetts area for a longtime. Is it Massachusetts or is it
what my grandma calls it Massachusetts?Well, they called that because of their
Puritans. Oh okay, okay,sorry, go ahead. Slowly, as
(13:28):
the everything morphed, though, inearly seventeen hundreds, the traditions started to
be a little bit closer to whatwe have now, still not quite.
They started giving gifts in the earlyseventeen hundreds of the two children and servants.
The gifts at the time was usuallylike either a small envelope of cash
(13:50):
or a book such as the Bible, or if it's a young kid,
get a horn book, which islike a like a paddle with a verse
on it with sliver of horn laidover to keep it secure. An older
child would get like a rifle.The rifle. So I mean, okay,
so now we're getting into Christmas story, right, Ralfie and the be
(14:11):
begun. Yeah, very much,but you know they're already well but okay,
so I'm I'm a little confused aboutthe horn book. Why was it
a paddle? I mean, no, I don't know. As it was,
it was a mixed message. Yeah, it is a big It was
easier for a kid to hold onto, like a stick in their hand,
(14:33):
and they just keep it with themand walk around with it when they're
studying it during the day of today. I always walk around when I
study. Yeah. And because itwas also cover, like the words were
covered in that horn, uh andthe rest was a solid wood they couldn't
really bring and they couldn't Yeah,So it was so this is for like
young kids. Yeah, this wasfor like four year olds, gotcha,
(14:56):
they can't read. But the Quakersthey were also really against Christmas early on
too, and they controlled Philadelphia andthose colonies. But Benjamin Franklin, you
know, coming from Philadelphia and stufflike that, and in his he had
(15:16):
an almanac he wrote, which isThe Poor Richard's Almanac, seventeen thirty four.
In the calendar section he put alittle poem. It was between December
twenty third and twenty ninth, ifyou would have guests, marry with cheer,
be or so yourself, or atleast appear. He was like saying,
(15:37):
you know, if you're going tohave a bunch of guests and they're
having fun, try to have funtoo. Another one he put in it
later on is oh blessed season lovedby saints and sinners for long devotions or
longer dinners. He was really intothe party in aspect of Christmas. Yeah,
I was gonna say this is likeit was trash Venor of Franklin.
He was. He was. Hewas not so much concerned with the religious
(15:58):
aspect anything. As long as therewas a party to be had, he
was. He was all about someparty and some sex. It was a
yeah. Christmas was still very muchlocal holidays though you had your different enclaves
of different European settlers celebrating their ownversions of Christmas, and it was not
(16:18):
a national holiday, partly because itwasn't a nation at the time. But
even after we became a nation,they still didn't have a holiday for in
seventeen eighty nine, actually, theContinental Congress had a day of work on
December twenty fifth. They didn't eventake day off. This was, you
(16:40):
know, wildly different than this.Today. You know, we see Christmas
is like this all encompassy thing,but back then it really wasn't. People
celebrated it in parts of the country, but not everywhere. And it's partly
because of the differences that people hadwith how they celebrated. The English traditions
definitely didn't gibe with something the others. The French traditions are like a little
(17:03):
more severe and talk about the punishmentsof like not observing it properly and being
solemn. So like, you know, this was this was not a real
holiday because of how different everyone feltabout it. Controversial, it was.
Yeah, I mean, all right, I hate, I hate to interrupt,
but I gotta type out something becauseI'm still are you looking at a
(17:27):
horn book? If you have ahorn book? I'm still I'm still curious
about the horn books because all right, all right, it's experiens exactly what
you think it looks like exactly hedescribed, Yeah, it's it yeah,
you got it, as he pullsout one. I got a hornbook,
right, I go no, ifI have actually looked up and I'm like,
(17:47):
I kind of want to make somehorn books. I don't know,
this seems like a fun project.Anyway. It wasn't until eighteen hundreds that
things started to change with Christmas,you know, the advent of mostly being
about kids having fun and the waythat changed because like I said, seventeen
hundred started giving gifts, that startedgiving gifts of kids, and then they
(18:11):
they're like, you know, wehave fun doing fun things for kids.
And so the drunken revelries and mummingand all that kind of went out the
purging. The purging kind of wentout the window. And slowly but surely
people started adopting other people's traditions.So like the Germanic traditions of mistletoe and
(18:37):
holly and ivy and the tree startedgetting adopted by the boisterous you know English
who wanted to have a party andinvite people over. So now you had
your your decorating your house to havea big feasts and and a gift giving
is dramatic, actually is dramatic Actuallya word Germanic. Yeah, like the
like the Germanic countries, gotcha,I like it all right, role of
(19:00):
that. But actually what's interesting isyou were not given a gift on Christmas
Day. You were actually giving agift on New Year's Day. It had
something to do with the fact thatit was like celebrating the next year.
You were giving a gift. Soit was like midway through the twelve days
of celebration you got a gift.Then the various different local holidays though still
(19:21):
survived. You had, you know, still pockets of the country doing things
one way and others doing it anotherway. It wasn't until the eighteen fifties
when railroads became very popular that everyonemixed together. And it happened immediately.
Christmas sort of geled in exactly thetype of holiday we have now almost overnight
(19:47):
within a year or two of differentpeople traveling for the holidays and then you
know, moving across country bringing theirtraditions. It just snapped into the place
as a That's why Jack likes trainedso much. Yes, why everybody those
trains. Trainings brought the country together. I mean, I live by I
(20:10):
live I get stopped going to workevery day by train. So I'm my
opinion of trains is not what it'slike us. They do stuff us too
a lot. At the end ofeighteen fifties, though, we move into
the Civil War that actually made Christmaseven more popular. Christmas was already you
know now like a like a solidholiday that was pretty codified by this mixing.
(20:34):
But at this point the idea ofpeace being nice to people not have
to deal with the dark alone andbe able to talk to other people and
not worry became infinitely more preferable tothe grind of this war that's going on.
So it helped make people happy tocelebrate Christmas. So Christmas became a
(21:00):
massive holiday during the war. Peoplecouldn't spend a ton of money then,
that wasn't done then, but itwas just a meeting people celebrating being nice,
sending Christmas cards. That became athing during this time, and the
war, for all its horror,besides freeing slaves, also did the country
(21:22):
of service in making Christmas like thebackbone of the of the year. During
the Civil War, there was aman named Henry Wats for Longfellow. He
is a prolific writer in root poems. A lot of novels. They were
(21:42):
mostly religious, and he kind oftaught, like, you know, being
a decent person was like his thing, and like all of his novels and
poems. But he had a somewhattragic life. In sixty one, his
wife was burnt to death in afire. He tried to savor, but
(22:03):
in doing so he was scarred allover his face. So he grew a
full beard and mustache to cover thescars. Ne were healed. He's about
to tell us that's how Santa Clausstarted. It could very well be Henry
la Unfortunately not so. Then hisson joined a civil war in sixty one
(22:26):
or sixty two, and he didn'ttell that he was going to war.
He sent a letter after he hadleft. His son was injured terribly.
He survived, but he was foreverlike a mangled from the battle. Henry
Longfellow fell into a deep depression.He was thinking of on it one day,
(22:49):
and it happened to me Christmas Day, and he was nineteen sixty three
or eighteen sixty three. Sorry,he heard the church in the town playing
Christmas bells, and he was thinkinghimself, during all this going on in
the country, they're still celebrating,and it occurred to him that this idea
(23:15):
that celebrating this holiday will help itstruck a chord with him, and he
sat down. He wrote a poem, and it's one of the biggest poems
at the time, and it becamethe rallying cry to make Christmas a national
holiday. It's called the Bells onChristmas Day. It's a really good poem,
(23:37):
kind of wall read through it realfast. Here I heard the bells
on Christmas Day, their old familiarcarol's play, and mild and sweet,
the words repeat of peace on Earth, goodwill to men. And it's not
how as the day had come,the belfries of all Christendom had rolled along
(23:57):
the unbroken song of peace on Earth, goodwill to men, till ringing singing
on its way, the world revolvedfrom night to day, a voice,
a chime, a chance sublime,of peace on Earth, goodwill to men.
(24:18):
Then from each a cursed mouth.The cannons thundered in the south,
and with the sound the carols drownedof Peace on Earth, goodwill to men.
It was as if some earthquake rentthe heart zones of a continent and
made forlorn the households born of peaceon earth, goodwill to men. And
(24:42):
in despair I bowed my head.There is no peace on earth, I
said, for hate is strong andmocks the song of peace on earth,
goodwill to men. Then peeled thebells more loud and deep. God is
not dead, nor doth he sleep. The wrong shall fail, the right
(25:06):
prevail with peace on earth, goodwillto men. Amen. It's a prayer.
Yeah, it kind of is.Yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah. It was in eighteen seventy, after a few years after ward been
over, that they finally made Christmasa national holiday. It's been like the
(25:32):
very essence of every year since then. Everyone looks forward to it. You
know, we may have our disagreementson how celebrated, whether or not it
should be so lavish and commercialized asit is today, And that's hon say,
a choice that people need to makethemselves, Like do you go not
spending millions of dollars or do youjust simply have a fun time turkey and
(26:00):
a few friends over and drink somegross wastle. Yeah, or you could
have a person like they did backin the six Yeah, we'll bring back
mommy and we'll purge you still haven'texplained when Jesus comes into play. I
guess they I guess there's did thateven that guess never happened. It's all
(26:21):
right, it goes back to thefour hundred eight. Uh, I guess
yeah. I guess it was justkind of like just kind of also Jesus.
Also Jesus, you never once mentionedit. Oh gosh, I mean
yeah, I guess it's actually becauselike all the particulars, they never really
(26:41):
they never really tie it in.It's kind of it's just kind of like
in the background the whole time.Well, it is a religious holiday,
so it's it's implied to each hisown. Yeah, yeah, what else
you got, Luke? Oh thatthat's that's the end of my speel on
the history of Christmas, if youhave any questions. So I definitely probably
(27:03):
clarify some stuff, except for whenJesus comes in. Okay, that's the
one thing we can't quite pin down. So I guess my question is one
of them. I have many.When did it? So? At what
point do you think it became ordo you think you just continued to evolve
(27:26):
with the luxury of the gifts?I guess you could say, so,
Yeah, that comes later. Duringthe Roaring twenties nineteen twenty onwards, there
was a big push by like marketingchains to our market supermarkets and stuff to
get people to buy these new giftsthat were coming in from Europe after your
(27:51):
war, because you have people importinggoods from Europe to help rebuild their economy,
and so they're selling them hard herebecause we had the only economy that
wasn't wrecked by the war. Sowe were, you know, being kind
of sold on a a thing tobe patriotic by buying this stuff. At
(28:12):
the same time, it's like tohelp other nations, and it's kind of
a gross I guess you could say, like, you know, it's we
were pushed to buy this stuff tohelp someone else, So that kind of
makes sense, I guess. Butat the same time it kind of made
Americans addicted to spending on commercial goods. Damn roar in twenties. I mean,
(28:37):
it's less it's less happy than someof these other stories, but yeah,
it's kind of it's it was kindof a marketing trick that's suppressing check
with question do you have before Iasked more, Yes, I have a
question about the wastle. Okay,so we talked about how it looks like
wool floating in a bowl, whichyou know that would make the im they
(29:00):
say, why are we drinking this? But you said that they put toasters,
Like are you saying they put likeand by ten you mean yeah,
So they there's two different things thatthey could put in. One was a
slice of bread that was toasted wouldbe at the bott of your cup and
(29:22):
they pour that stuff on there andwith the apple sauce and the beer.
Wait, before we started out withthe second base, why would they do
that? That's actually really good question. The exact reason why I don't know,
but it has something to do withthe way it ate. A lot
back then, you would dip yourbread or you're eating into into beer and
(29:45):
that was just kind of like justthe accepted norm. So for them it
wasn't super weird to do. Andactually the the to say, you know,
you're toasting someone comes from that gamepunch with a toast piece and that
you give it to you like dipyour toast in their drink. No,
no, you would give them givethem their toast. Oh okay, all
(30:08):
right, yeah it makes more sensebecause you give them your toast. I
would be I would be very toastdrink the drink to get that toast away
from a drink. The other thingthat they would put in there a lot
is a baked seed cake, aCarraway seed cakes. They would be made
(30:30):
in what they're called wigs and theywere kind of like a size of a
modern day biscuit that they would cutinto. They would put like a marking
the quarret, and then they wouldbake that and you put that into your
drink as well. That was anotherone. You could do a lot of
pudding in drinks. Yeah, nevernever fly today. No, No,
(30:55):
you can't tabor of drinks like thattoday. I can't just put But aren't
you a little bit curious? Areyou a little bit curious to how it
tastes? Yeah, I mean I'mcurious. It's kind of sounds disturbing,
but yeah, there's always that intriguingfactory to it, for sure. Yeah,
I kind of want to drink itthis week, and well what it'd
be like a strawberry shortcake commas.Well that sounds good, but with beer,
(31:19):
I guess, instead of strawberries andbeer. I never thought about that
wostling. So when did the Iknow I mean, I know it's always
been in the winter, I getit, But when did it become so
try to how to word it winterized? You said germanized. There's something earlier.
I wasna Germanic. You're talking aboutlike I'm gonna say winterized. When
(31:42):
did it become so winter rized?Sleigh bells and the white PRIs all bells.
The reason why they would, like, you know, jingle bells exist
and stuff like that was it actuallygoes back to paganism again. I was
a belief that during the dark months, the veil was thin and the spirits
(32:02):
would walk the earth and keep youaway. You would shake bills and make
noise scare the demons away. Yeah, so that's where Yeah, okay,
so that that that feels like thatand save selves served a function of let
you know that it's a sleigh comingdown the road and so you don't step
(32:23):
in front of it. So likecombating like the demons with with bills and
stuff like that. That See,that seems like something the Catholic Church or
some served church would do. Uh, I'm not so sure about the dressing
up as demons and singing. TheCatholic Church actually still uses bells in mass
(32:44):
they'll jingle them at specific points aslike a a ward. Okay, all
right then yeah, it just seemslike and all that stuff that you said,
you didn't talk about winter that much, and like today, it seems
like heavily connected to winter. That'swhy I brought it up. So like
(33:04):
the the you know, the evergreenstuff and all in the winter berriers like
holly and ivy and uh, mistletoe, stuff like that. While that came
from German influence on it because theywere big about that there and it has
to do it. They're druidic hof bringing in and like Norse mythology and
stuff like that. Germanisms. Yeah, Germanism, Germans, Germans. I
(33:30):
gotta look up this word now.He couldn't making up stuff all a long.
We wouldn't know. I guess Istarted to think that about the toast,
but but I guess if it's real, yeah wow, yeah, so
and and I think I keep seeinga million dollar question is but you know,
(33:52):
you didn't talk about Santa Claus.So you know, I didn't talk
about Santa Claus because you don't believein them. No, I did kind
of gloss over like some of theother stuff that came in in like the
mid eighteen hundreds, and Santa Clausbecame like a fixture then, you know,
(34:13):
he was it was a patron SaintNicholas, and you know there were
stories how Saint Nicholas left wedding dowryfor people in there in their homes,
and so that's how I evolved,you know, Like so, like I
said, they gave cash and envelopesas gifts early on. It's kind of
the whole thing like that. Andthen Santa Claus became like the myth then
(34:37):
of Saint Nicholas going out and givinggifts to people, and that's kind of
how you bold. But it startedmostly that was mostly European until like the
eighteen fifties, and that actually thatso it actually gives me the other question
I've come from the other question.So speaking of speed of Santa Claus.
(35:00):
So there's obviously we've we've all kindof sort of heard that there's multiple types
of Santa Claus and different cultures,right, is uh, do those show
up at early American Christmases or dowe like we always like just Santa Claus.
You know, we know that allthese other cultures have other you like
(35:22):
we've got Germanistic Santa Clausistic Santa Clausand or what was it, like the
the Yule Lads. There's like fifteenof them or something like that. So
it was like, no, SantaClaus is the only one work. They
did all show up actually early on, like I said earlier, the French
(35:43):
where they had like a very moresevere and like reserved Christmas or any early
days, and then they end uphaving their version of Santa Claus, which
the name escapes here right now,but basically he would beat you at the
Cat nine Tales if you misbehaved,my gosh. But yeah, it's also
(36:06):
the German versions, like you said, the eu ole Ad and that's that's
what he would say. So thosethings were all celebrate early on too,
and that then once every day startedmelding together, Santa Claus became like the
only one in the US. Itwas kind of curious, and I wonder
if they're just like, you knowwhat, this was like the easiest one
(36:29):
to kind of like pass around,because like it pretty much was. It
was like the most popular version becauselike the kids didn't like the ones that
teach them lessons and beat them.Yeah, yeah, I mean understandably they
get all their listens from the Hornbook. Yeah, they that's what the horn
(36:50):
Book meant. So yeah, theythe kids preferred the jolly elf of Santa
Claus rather than the others. Whatwould you say is the biggest and you
know, you covered some of them, but what is the biggest Americanized Americanism,
Americanized Christmas tradition that came out ofall this? We talked about the
(37:19):
trees coming from I don't remember which, what Germany? Yes, the Germanism
trees, But what like was themost it was it the gift giving?
Was it the like? Like?What was the most American thing to come
out of and kind of morph intoits own thing version of Christmas? Would
you say that's a good question.Uh. I would have to say it
(37:44):
would be the changing of certain drinksand things such as that, because like
we mentioned that, you know,while Saul was either made with beer or
cider. Well, in the UnitedStates, if you think of apple cider,
it's usually a not alcoholic drink.They have hardsiders, like they specifically
(38:05):
call it hardsiders. Well, inEngland it's just called cider when it's heartsider,
So just apple juice yeah, soearly on or not early on.
Later on they switched out making alcoholicwascles with non alcoholic drinks here in the
United States, so it was madewith apple cider and other juices. What
(38:28):
about eggnog? When does the eggnogcoming to play? You know what's weird?
I didn't look up agnolg eggnog.Well, I know what I know
about egnog is that George Washington hasa fantastic Well supposedly, we go off
of what we think was the reality. But there is a recorded recipe for
George Washington's eggnog, and I makeit every year. Actually it's it's very
(38:54):
boozy and it's fantastic. I wasgonna say, interestingly to kind of contrasts
the non alcoholic version of like Wassaleand Insider. It seems that America has
Are you ready for what? Wikipediasays? Okay, all right, let's
go for it. Eggnog historically alsoknown as milk punch or egg milk punch.
(39:16):
While culinary historians debate its exact lineage, most agree eggnog originated from the
mid evil British drink called It's speltp O S S E T, which
was made with hot milk and wineand ale and flavored spices. And also
in the mid mid Middle Ages,it was used as cold and flu remedy.
(39:39):
That's interesting where you see that becauseof a lot of the warmer because
it's it's uh, because it canbe served hot as well. Never had
it hot those be used for likeyou know, like the hot Toddy friends.
It would be like a cold andslid remedy and that would be also
alcoholic. And it's also there's asimilar drink to a Comma Jerry Tomah Jerry,
(40:05):
yeah, and that's also served warYeah. So I was just like,
I just was just already bringing upto Tom and Jerry when you start,
I knew year it's what you're goingfor there. So Tom and Jerry
is also kind of uniquely American versionof eggnog, and it came in in
the holidays in the mid to lateeighteen hundreds and it was served in the
(40:28):
Midwest areas, so where it wasa little bit colder. They would make
this drink that was basically eggnogged,but with some different steps. You would
take the eggs and you would beatthem together with a stiffener like cream of
tartar and you would make like awhat they call it batter and have sugar
(40:50):
in there, and then you wouldtake a scoop of that batter put it
into your cup, and then youwould pour hot brandy into that and mix
it up with or also hot wateror milk as well, and you mix
that all up and then you drinkthat milk water, same king. You
can use either one for oak oatmeal. Yeah, it's pretty much what it
(41:14):
was. You could do milk orwater because it was where we had it.
Wow. So the drinks, thefeasting, I would say these aren't
necessarily unique to America, but aredefinitely something that we've lashed on to considerave
changed some like feasting and like Englandwas almost exclusively goose, but here it's
(41:35):
turkey and ham. Yeah you're notif you're eating goose. What do you
know? I don't know the turkeypopulation of England though, I can't speak
to that. Yeah, I guessthat's true. Is that just are the
turkeys in other countries? Yeah,I mean I'm sure, but yeah,
there's there's a Germanistic approach and turkeys. They are very like harsh turkeys.
(42:05):
So I'll leave it off with astory about a turkey. Okay, so
growing up says nothing to do withChristmas, but you might this might help
it. This might give you agood laugh if you listening to this near
Christmas. So growing up, mydad would we would go to this trading
event like an hour away and atthis flea it was like a flea market
(42:25):
but outside it open and basically peoplewould bring everything there and sell and trade
it fruits, vegetable stands, guns, toys, hound dogs, hunting dogs,
also anything literally. So one timeand I had to go there like
once a month. It was terribleas a kid. But one time we
(42:49):
went and we brought our turkey andmy dad want to get rid of this
turkey because this turkey was a violentturkey. And he actually got this turkey
at this place a couple months before. I don't know what he traded for
the turkey. I can't remember,but you could get I'm serious, you'd
trade stuff for you just trade.So we had this turkey at our house
(43:10):
and it was meter the hell whenyou try to feed it. Now how
one goes about feeding a turkey.It was terrible. You had to go
under the coop because it was ina coop, which you can imagine irritated
this turkey. But anyway, Iwasn't allowed to feed the turkey because it
tried to attack me once. Well, once my grandpa fed the turkey,
(43:30):
he went into the coop to feedthe turkey. And this is a true
story, by the way, andthat sounds ridiculous, but the turkey flew
at him to attack him as muchas one can fly in the coop,
and he had to hit it withthe bucket that he was using to feed
it. And when it did that, it actually formed a big knot on
its head. So my dad calledthe turkey not head. So we went
(43:52):
back to the market to get ridof this market thing, to get rid
of, to get rid of nothead. And I think my dad trade
did not head for like a smallrifle that he was going to give me
or something back. Then this isa true story. I can't believe I'm
telling this to the world here.But uh So, after the exchange was
made and the guy was holding thecage with the cage with the turkey was
(44:15):
loaded the back of his truck andwe had whatever we got, he said,
is he how is he? Mydad said, he's meaner than hell,
but he's yours now I walked away. That's the story of Turkey and
the Turkey. You're not head.I can't tell if you're screwed. No,
no, believe I'll take this touh Facebook is proof, you know.
(44:40):
I'll copy you guys on it.Yeah. Anyway, I know your
dad, so I'm sure he'll commenton it. Yeah, but no,
my dad, this shouldn't surprise youtoo much. That that's why I was
like, I believe this completely.So I have a different view on turkeys
anyway. It's nothing to do withChristmas, but it's it's a good it's
a good American story. Some wouldsay it is, Oh it is still
(45:07):
that's the nightmares about that flea marketand be so damn hot, and I'd
have to be there all day.It is literally like a big lot and
they and you'd it's like a biggrass lot in the country, middle of
nowhere, nowhere, middle of nowhere, and you'd go and you'd set up
stands there. Interesting anyway, Soyeah, uh, you guys have anything
(45:28):
else before I start to segue outof here. I don't think so we
this episode will be the one thatcomes up closest to Christmas because we normally
release on Monday. Christmas is ona Monday, so we'll release an episode
the day after. So we'll goahead and release this one two weeks before
Christmas, just to give everybody theopportunity to listen to it and let the
(45:49):
Christmas spirit develop, Let it,let it. What words could we use
that? Look you you used here? Muzzle? Yeah? Oh, mummy,
whatever the hell it was? Mummy, yeah, mummy. Yeah.
So yeah, so, yeah,this is a little bit of a celebration
of Christmas because it is Christmas,your guy's favorite holiday. Honestly, Yeah,
(46:13):
yeah, I would say so.Yeah, it's not mad right up
there with the Fort July and Christmas. Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'm just
a old man anyway. So yeah, No, seriously though, yeah,
we appreciate you listening to the podcast. This will be a little bit of
a Christmas gift for you. Areour Christmas gift to you, the American
Stories History version of Christmas. Sothis has been a fun episode. Well,
(46:36):
I don't know what we'll bring afterthis. Maybe Luke will have some
New Year's or crazy or we'll justget back to into the storyline. Who
knows. Oh yeah, we'll findout that New Year's is secretly evil holiday
too or something. Yeah, horsesheads and raising hell and drinking and purging.
By the way, that I didwatch the show The Purge in the
last week. There's a television showof it, and that's why there's been
(46:59):
so many perdrafts, per instance.Yeah, not like some deeper meaning or
anything. I literally just watched theshow. We talked about it for a
few us for the show. Yeah, before we have recorded. I gave
the recap on season one and two, so don't don't. They'll take it
to heart there anyways. So withthat being said, we have a bunch
of episodes you can listen to inthe in the back catalog that are great.
(47:22):
I'm going to pass it over toJack to take us all the way
home here. Yes, if youwant to follow us on Twitter, we're
America Stories, America's story pod andjust because there's a character limit, yes,
yes, and we've got our linkson there as well, so if
you want to follow there. Butyou can also email us at America Stories
(47:45):
Pod at gmail dot com if youhave a questions or just want to get
in contact with us or have episodeideas or something like that. And you
can also go to our website towatch all for episodes at Americastories dot U
s. Wow, he's got better, has any Luke? Yeah, you
(48:07):
definitely check out the button episode onewe did just for this Ston's revenge.
Yeah, it was open to all. He would connect with Christmas, but
he's just too much of a humbugto connect. He didn't believe in Christmas
terribly. He was a funny daddy. Well yeah, everybody listening, Merry
Christmas, and we appreciate you supportingthe show. So until next time,
(48:30):
keep being you and keep being great. Got the kind of fix everybody knows
ut around there for wed You likehim and you do as well. People
(48:53):
know the thank the d inside thebest us. Take care on you all
you so to some of us dothis, wee can some of must do.
(49:35):
Jeff Townsend Media said you good night. And the question is do I
stay here? Will you be back? Are you going to come back?
Will you be back? Are youcoming back
What you're gonna do brother, whenJeff Townsend Media runs wild on you.
America Stories. All right, allright, all right, this is another
(00:28):
episode of America Stories. I'm Jeff, their Luke and Jack. He has
the C capitalized in his name.Yeah yeah, yeah. Every week,
like I say, he thinks it'sreally cute to modify his name in different
ways. So today it's that wayanyways. So yeah, welcome to America
Stories, the podcast where we coverAmerican history in a light, fun hearted
(00:51):
yet educational manner. And speaking ofwhich, so we've been going along the
timeline here. We talked about thedf I the last couple of weeks,
the Deck of the Deck of IndieIndependence. I thought that sounded cool.
But since the holiday season is approachingus and Luke is the ever loving Christmas
(01:14):
he is not the a umbug.He loves Christmas, so he has done
some research here we're going to talkabout I guess really like Christmas history for
it like a pretty lengthynt like goingway back in American history. Correct,
Yeah, this is going to beChristmas history from the founding colonies up until
(01:37):
eighteen seventy. It's a true thatthere's there was purging then kind of.
Actually, some of the old Christmastraditions are pretty weird, and I'm looking
forward to going over this. Theymight classify something that could all be done
during the annual purge, that's whatyou're saying. Yeah, it's almost it's
almost that level. It's almost,say, I don't know, I don't
(01:57):
know if it's quite that extreme.Yeah, that might be. That might
be a little stretch. So you'regoing to kick us off here. We're
going to go into some Christmas asit relates to American history. All right,
So the first settlers in Jamestown,that first James, like Jamestown,
Virginia. Oh, okay, jamesonaa is not too far, I guess
(02:19):
said, no, it's not.So in sixteen oh three, they were
still having hard times getting set upwith the new colony, but they still
observed Christmas as a day of restin Jamestown. So in sixteen oh three
or all the way back then,it was still kind of celebrated. This
(02:40):
was extremely different from what happened inPlymouth though. Plymouth, Massachusetts, when
it was founded, was founded bythe Puritans. And the Puritans are pure,
yeah, very pure, and they'revery pure. They're staunchly against anything
that the Church of England was upto, and especially really Christmas. The
(03:00):
Puritans hated Christmas, kind of areal like Grinch on top of the mountain
type thing. It is, Ican't have that. They decided that new
arrivals to the Plymouth Colony that didn'tcome with them originally they would give the
one year to get Christmas out oftheir system, but then the next year
(03:23):
you had to fall in line withhow does they want to beat Christmas out
of their system? You're allowed tocelebrate in your home that one year,
you cannot do it outside and ifthey catch you outside playing any Christmas games
or observing any traditions, you'll befined. Is this like death or not
death? Per se? But itwas definitely a staunch fine. For the
(03:46):
time we'll write you a letter,it will be very angry. I mean,
yeah, I guess, I guessthat is a good question. It
is like like I wonder how manypeople like rebelled against it, or just
like I don't I'm doing it anyways. Taking the fine so early on,
like before a certain thing happens,it was technically you could probably get away
(04:09):
with it, and you wouldn't bein too big of a trouble. But
in the sixteen forties, the Churchof England and the monarch was overthrown by
the Puritans in England for a time. And when that happened, the Puritans
flat out outlawed Christmas allotted in Englandand they outlawed it. Here. They're
not violent people, I mean,how do you overthrow something? But they
(04:31):
were words. They were violent enough. Yeah, they were just throwing amount
of violence they were through the wholereligion they were. They were violent enough
to depose the Mark and their planon cutting his head off. All right,
people, maybe it was kind oflike the Purge. Maybe that was
(04:56):
damn Yeah, well it was.It was the Civil War in England.
The Massachusetts government and the other NewEngland colonies that were founded in those twenty
or so years, they all outlawedChristmas. Now, the southern colonies of
Virginia on downwards they did not.They didn't outlaw and they still maintained Christmas
(05:16):
traditions that were from imported from Europe. Even all the way back then,
the Germans would bring would do Christmastrees. They were the only ones though
to do it for many many years, roughly two hundred years. Why were
they against the Christmas tradition? Whatwere the Christmas traditions has to have some
(05:38):
deeper meaning, that's to get against, right. There were a lot of
traditions that they felt were too paganbecause the Christmas was co opted by the
Roman Catholic Church in four hundred ADfrom the celebration of Saturnalia that they would
celebrate in Rome by the Pagans.This was then taken over by the Christian
(06:01):
Church then and so some paganry stuffhas always been part of Christmas. And
yeah, still today. The treeitself is a pagan symbol. Little pagan
tree, little pagan tree that didn'thurt I mean a little tree didn't hurt
nobody. So it just starts withthe tree. Jack, It just starts
with the tree. It starts withthe tree. Okay, it's like a
(06:23):
slippery slope. There were two majorthings that they disagreed with, and that
was the traditions of watling and mummy. What mumming as in like the word
mummy, but it's of a whyit's I in g well, wotling.
That goes back to what the theDruidic people would do in England. They
(06:48):
would have their apple orchards and theywould make hard ciders and they would get
drunk on them, and they wouldsing songs to and treat the spirits to
protect their orchards. They would goout and they would pour cider and beer
all over the roots to ensure agood harvest next year. It's slowly merged
(07:09):
with Christmas celebrations, and they wouldthen go and sing through the town,
getting drunk and getting into fights.That's like a more extreme version of karl.
I guess yeah. The to properlywas wastle, though you had to
have a bowl of the drink waswastle. Now the words are the same,
(07:30):
but they have two different meanings.Wastling the act means in good health.
It's like toasting someone's good health.Wastling the wastle. The drink is
a corruption of the word lamb's wool, because it was made from warm beer
and apple sauce and toast, andit looked like the wool of a lamb
(07:54):
laying on top of the drink,and you would drink that down. It
doesn't sound doesn't sound very appetizing.I don't like that. I had a
little layup with my Anyway, sowhistling made its way over and to the
English the colonies. And what doesit mean when somebody has to be wastled?
That's a that's a different story fora different times. Well, if
(08:15):
you wastled somebody, you would goto their house. You would knock on
the door and you would you know, start drinking and singing in front of
their house, and they had togive you food and drink or else you
would cause some sort of mischief.You could purge them close, you could
wreck some uh, I want totalk to us about. Mumming is also
like an even crazier form of thatthough. Okay, so mumming is like
(08:39):
how we would look at trick ortreating today. You would get dressed up,
and the things people dressed up forwere ghosts or demons. There was
a horsehead demon in Welsh mythology thatthey would bring to your door a horse
and act like an actual one.Well they use an actual horse skull,
but it was like a demon thatthey created. I can't remember the name
(09:01):
of that one right now. Oh. They also dressed up in opposite genders.
This was a big thing then too. That was considered super taboo.
So like the man who addresses womenand women dresses men. And then they
also demons and stuff. And thenthey would come up to your door and
they would demand food and drink orelse they would curse you. Or technically
they said they would bless them ifthey gave it, but the implication was
(09:24):
if you didn't give food and drink, you would be cursed by evil spirits.
So this is like a game though, right, I mean, by
by the sixteen hundred, it's definitelya game. But when it started out,
it was definitely, you know,a belief, a religious belief for
the Druids. Well, I'm wondering. I'm just thinking to myself, would
I want like a roving band ofdrunk people whostling wostling every night? You
(09:48):
know, I don't know, likedress dressed up. They're full full of
adults. You know. It's notlike raising hell? Right, yeah,
raising hell and not exactly my pictureof an ideal Christmas mone but I guess,
but sounds like a lot of thestems from alcohol. I it' that's
what they're trying to say. Yeah, alcohol was definitely a big part.
Well it's still kind of a bigpart of Christmas, but it was more
(10:09):
so then. So this was,you know, behind why the Puritans outlawed
it, because it was still celebratedelsewhere, though it did continually morph a
little bit over time, drinking andyou know, basically ransacking the town in
a caroling. That kind of wentaway a little bit and it became more
(10:30):
about just having parties. In fact, Christmas was also celebrated, not for
one day. It was twelve daysof celebration starts on Christmas Day and it
goes to January sixth, which iscalled twelfth Night. Wait, so twelve
days of Christmas started on twenty fifth, Yes, it starts on the twenty
fifth, not twelve days before,and then it continues on. The Puritans
(10:52):
lost control of England after a shortperiod of time, it was about twenty
years, and then after that slowlyin the colonies. They also released their
restrictions on Christmas by sixteen eighty,but by that time a good generation of
(11:13):
people in the New England territories didn'tcelebrate Christmas, so it didn't really catch
on again there for many years.Let me let me ask you a million
dollar questions for you to continue,Yeah, when did this not? When
was this not about Jesus? Andwhen did this start becoming about Jesus again,
Yeah, because like we haven't gotany of that so far. I
(11:35):
mean, you're talking to me,you're still I mean, you're we're talking
BC times here. Jesus was Actuallythat was actually a problem that the Puritans
also had with it. They saidthat the English Church had moved away even
more from Jesus than what they originallysaid they was about. They also said
that they're nowhere in the Bible doesn'tsay when Jesus was born, so they
(11:58):
were just like saying, this istheir interpretation that it was. They just
basically they knew that the Church ofEngland and before them, the Roman Catholic
Church, had co opted a holidaythat they then declared as their own holiday,
and so they're kind of pointing outthe hypocrisy of that, is using
a pagan holiday to celebrate the birthof Jesus, and so they wanted to
(12:22):
sort of shine a light on that. They're actually, in my opinion,
they're wildly wrong in doing this though, because like, it doesn't matter if
the outcome it works in your favor, right, if more people listen to
your preaching and go to your masses, which what the Roman Catholics did.
(12:43):
They did three masses on Christmas,and people showed up for those in any
other time of year. I feellike, if you were getting people to
listen to your religion, doesn't matterif the day is a little bit wonky,
you know. I think their stanceon that was a little bit of
ridiculous. But you know, callingout the Puritans three hundred years ago,
(13:05):
I can't really say much. Yeah, so it took. Like I said,
sometime before, it was still popularin the South, but not popular
in the Massachusetts area for a longtime. Is it Massachusetts or is it
what my grandma calls it Massachusetts?Well, they called that because of their
Puritans. Oh okay, okay,sorry, go ahead. Slowly, as
(13:28):
the everything morphed, though, inearly seventeen hundreds, the traditions started to
be a little bit closer to whatwe have now, still not quite.
They started giving gifts in the earlyseventeen hundreds of the two children and servants.
The gifts at the time was usuallylike either a small envelope of cash
(13:50):
or a book such as the Bible, or if it's a young kid,
get a horn book, which islike a like a paddle with a verse
on it with sliver of horn laidover to keep it secure. An older
child would get like a rifle.The rifle. So I mean, okay,
so now we're getting into Christmas story, right, Ralfie and the be
(14:11):
begun. Yeah, very much,but you know they're already well but okay,
so I'm I'm a little confused aboutthe horn book. Why was it
a paddle? I mean, no, I don't know. As it was,
it was a mixed message. Yeah, it is a big It was
easier for a kid to hold onto, like a stick in their hand,
(14:33):
and they just keep it with themand walk around with it when they're
studying it during the day of today. I always walk around when I
study. Yeah. And because itwas also cover, like the words were
covered in that horn, uh andthe rest was a solid wood they couldn't
really bring and they couldn't Yeah,So it was so this is for like
young kids. Yeah, this wasfor like four year olds, gotcha,
(14:56):
they can't read. But the Quakersthey were also really against Christmas early on
too, and they controlled Philadelphia andthose colonies. But Benjamin Franklin, you
know, coming from Philadelphia and stufflike that, and in his he had
(15:16):
an almanac he wrote, which isThe Poor Richard's Almanac, seventeen thirty four.
In the calendar section he put alittle poem. It was between December
twenty third and twenty ninth, ifyou would have guests, marry with cheer,
be or so yourself, or atleast appear. He was like saying,
(15:37):
you know, if you're going tohave a bunch of guests and they're
having fun, try to have funtoo. Another one he put in it
later on is oh blessed season lovedby saints and sinners for long devotions or
longer dinners. He was really intothe party in aspect of Christmas. Yeah,
I was gonna say this is likeit was trash Venor of Franklin.
He was. He was. Hewas not so much concerned with the religious
(15:58):
aspect anything. As long as therewas a party to be had, he
was. He was all about someparty and some sex. It was a
yeah. Christmas was still very muchlocal holidays though you had your different enclaves
of different European settlers celebrating their ownversions of Christmas, and it was not
(16:18):
a national holiday, partly because itwasn't a nation at the time. But
even after we became a nation,they still didn't have a holiday for in
seventeen eighty nine, actually, theContinental Congress had a day of work on
December twenty fifth. They didn't eventake day off. This was, you
(16:40):
know, wildly different than this.Today. You know, we see Christmas
is like this all encompassy thing,but back then it really wasn't. People
celebrated it in parts of the country, but not everywhere. And it's partly
because of the differences that people hadwith how they celebrated. The English traditions
definitely didn't gibe with something the others. The French traditions are like a little
(17:03):
more severe and talk about the punishmentsof like not observing it properly and being
solemn. So like, you know, this was this was not a real
holiday because of how different everyone feltabout it. Controversial, it was.
Yeah, I mean, all right, I hate, I hate to interrupt,
but I gotta type out something becauseI'm still are you looking at a
(17:27):
horn book? If you have ahorn book? I'm still I'm still curious
about the horn books because all right, all right, it's experiens exactly what
you think it looks like exactly hedescribed, Yeah, it's it yeah,
you got it, as he pullsout one. I got a hornbook,
right, I go no, ifI have actually looked up and I'm like,
(17:47):
I kind of want to make somehorn books. I don't know,
this seems like a fun project.Anyway. It wasn't until eighteen hundreds that
things started to change with Christmas,you know, the advent of mostly being
about kids having fun and the waythat changed because like I said, seventeen
hundred started giving gifts, that startedgiving gifts of kids, and then they
(18:11):
they're like, you know, wehave fun doing fun things for kids.
And so the drunken revelries and mummingand all that kind of went out the
purging. The purging kind of wentout the window. And slowly but surely
people started adopting other people's traditions.So like the Germanic traditions of mistletoe and
(18:37):
holly and ivy and the tree startedgetting adopted by the boisterous you know English
who wanted to have a party andinvite people over. So now you had
your your decorating your house to havea big feasts and and a gift giving
is dramatic, actually is dramatic Actuallya word Germanic. Yeah, like the
like the Germanic countries, gotcha,I like it all right, role of
(19:00):
that. But actually what's interesting isyou were not given a gift on Christmas
Day. You were actually giving agift on New Year's Day. It had
something to do with the fact thatit was like celebrating the next year.
You were giving a gift. Soit was like midway through the twelve days
of celebration you got a gift.Then the various different local holidays though still
(19:21):
survived. You had, you know, still pockets of the country doing things
one way and others doing it anotherway. It wasn't until the eighteen fifties
when railroads became very popular that everyonemixed together. And it happened immediately.
Christmas sort of geled in exactly thetype of holiday we have now almost overnight
(19:47):
within a year or two of differentpeople traveling for the holidays and then you
know, moving across country bringing theirtraditions. It just snapped into the place
as a That's why Jack likes trainedso much. Yes, why everybody those
trains. Trainings brought the country together. I mean, I live by I
(20:10):
live I get stopped going to workevery day by train. So I'm my
opinion of trains is not what it'slike us. They do stuff us too
a lot. At the end ofeighteen fifties, though, we move into
the Civil War that actually made Christmaseven more popular. Christmas was already you
know now like a like a solidholiday that was pretty codified by this mixing.
(20:34):
But at this point the idea ofpeace being nice to people not have
to deal with the dark alone andbe able to talk to other people and
not worry became infinitely more preferable tothe grind of this war that's going on.
So it helped make people happy tocelebrate Christmas. So Christmas became a
(21:00):
massive holiday during the war. Peoplecouldn't spend a ton of money then,
that wasn't done then, but itwas just a meeting people celebrating being nice,
sending Christmas cards. That became athing during this time, and the
war, for all its horror,besides freeing slaves, also did the country
(21:22):
of service in making Christmas like thebackbone of the of the year. During
the Civil War, there was aman named Henry Wats for Longfellow. He
is a prolific writer in root poems. A lot of novels. They were
(21:42):
mostly religious, and he kind oftaught, like, you know, being
a decent person was like his thing, and like all of his novels and
poems. But he had a somewhattragic life. In sixty one, his
wife was burnt to death in afire. He tried to savor, but
(22:03):
in doing so he was scarred allover his face. So he grew a
full beard and mustache to cover thescars. Ne were healed. He's about
to tell us that's how Santa Clausstarted. It could very well be Henry
la Unfortunately not so. Then hisson joined a civil war in sixty one
(22:26):
or sixty two, and he didn'ttell that he was going to war.
He sent a letter after he hadleft. His son was injured terribly.
He survived, but he was foreverlike a mangled from the battle. Henry
Longfellow fell into a deep depression.He was thinking of on it one day,
(22:49):
and it happened to me Christmas Day, and he was nineteen sixty three
or eighteen sixty three. Sorry,he heard the church in the town playing
Christmas bells, and he was thinkinghimself, during all this going on in
the country, they're still celebrating,and it occurred to him that this idea
(23:15):
that celebrating this holiday will help itstruck a chord with him, and he
sat down. He wrote a poem, and it's one of the biggest poems
at the time, and it becamethe rallying cry to make Christmas a national
holiday. It's called the Bells onChristmas Day. It's a really good poem,
(23:37):
kind of wall read through it realfast. Here I heard the bells
on Christmas Day, their old familiarcarol's play, and mild and sweet,
the words repeat of peace on Earth, goodwill to men. And it's not
how as the day had come,the belfries of all Christendom had rolled along
(23:57):
the unbroken song of peace on Earth, goodwill to men, till ringing singing
on its way, the world revolvedfrom night to day, a voice,
a chime, a chance sublime,of peace on Earth, goodwill to men.
(24:18):
Then from each a cursed mouth.The cannons thundered in the south,
and with the sound the carols drownedof Peace on Earth, goodwill to men.
It was as if some earthquake rentthe heart zones of a continent and
made forlorn the households born of peaceon earth, goodwill to men. And
(24:42):
in despair I bowed my head.There is no peace on earth, I
said, for hate is strong andmocks the song of peace on earth,
goodwill to men. Then peeled thebells more loud and deep. God is
not dead, nor doth he sleep. The wrong shall fail, the right
(25:06):
prevail with peace on earth, goodwillto men. Amen. It's a prayer.
Yeah, it kind of is.Yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah. It was in eighteen seventy, after a few years after ward been
over, that they finally made Christmasa national holiday. It's been like the
(25:32):
very essence of every year since then. Everyone looks forward to it. You
know, we may have our disagreementson how celebrated, whether or not it
should be so lavish and commercialized asit is today, And that's hon say,
a choice that people need to makethemselves, Like do you go not
spending millions of dollars or do youjust simply have a fun time turkey and
(26:00):
a few friends over and drink somegross wastle. Yeah, or you could
have a person like they did backin the six Yeah, we'll bring back
mommy and we'll purge you still haven'texplained when Jesus comes into play. I
guess they I guess there's did thateven that guess never happened. It's all
(26:21):
right, it goes back to thefour hundred eight. Uh, I guess
yeah. I guess it was justkind of like just kind of also Jesus.
Also Jesus, you never once mentionedit. Oh gosh, I mean
yeah, I guess it's actually becauselike all the particulars, they never really
(26:41):
they never really tie it in.It's kind of it's just kind of like
in the background the whole time.Well, it is a religious holiday,
so it's it's implied to each hisown. Yeah, yeah, what else
you got, Luke? Oh thatthat's that's the end of my speel on
the history of Christmas, if youhave any questions. So I definitely probably
(27:03):
clarify some stuff, except for whenJesus comes in. Okay, that's the
one thing we can't quite pin down. So I guess my question is one
of them. I have many.When did it? So? At what
point do you think it became ordo you think you just continued to evolve
(27:26):
with the luxury of the gifts?I guess you could say, so,
Yeah, that comes later. Duringthe Roaring twenties nineteen twenty onwards, there
was a big push by like marketingchains to our market supermarkets and stuff to
get people to buy these new giftsthat were coming in from Europe after your
(27:51):
war, because you have people importinggoods from Europe to help rebuild their economy,
and so they're selling them hard herebecause we had the only economy that
wasn't wrecked by the war. Sowe were, you know, being kind
of sold on a a thing tobe patriotic by buying this stuff. At
(28:12):
the same time, it's like tohelp other nations, and it's kind of
a gross I guess you could say, like, you know, it's we
were pushed to buy this stuff tohelp someone else, So that kind of
makes sense, I guess. Butat the same time it kind of made
Americans addicted to spending on commercial goods. Damn roar in twenties. I mean,
(28:37):
it's less it's less happy than someof these other stories, but yeah,
it's kind of it's it was kindof a marketing trick that's suppressing check
with question do you have before Iasked more, Yes, I have a
question about the wastle. Okay,so we talked about how it looks like
wool floating in a bowl, whichyou know that would make the im they
(29:00):
say, why are we drinking this? But you said that they put toasters,
Like are you saying they put likeand by ten you mean yeah,
So they there's two different things thatthey could put in. One was a
slice of bread that was toasted wouldbe at the bott of your cup and
(29:22):
they pour that stuff on there andwith the apple sauce and the beer.
Wait, before we started out withthe second base, why would they do
that? That's actually really good question. The exact reason why I don't know,
but it has something to do withthe way it ate. A lot
back then, you would dip yourbread or you're eating into into beer and
(29:45):
that was just kind of like justthe accepted norm. So for them it
wasn't super weird to do. Andactually the the to say, you know,
you're toasting someone comes from that gamepunch with a toast piece and that
you give it to you like dipyour toast in their drink. No,
no, you would give them givethem their toast. Oh okay, all
(30:08):
right, yeah it makes more sensebecause you give them your toast. I
would be I would be very toastdrink the drink to get that toast away
from a drink. The other thingthat they would put in there a lot
is a baked seed cake, aCarraway seed cakes. They would be made
(30:30):
in what they're called wigs and theywere kind of like a size of a
modern day biscuit that they would cutinto. They would put like a marking
the quarret, and then they wouldbake that and you put that into your
drink as well. That was anotherone. You could do a lot of
pudding in drinks. Yeah, nevernever fly today. No, No,
(30:55):
you can't tabor of drinks like thattoday. I can't just put But aren't
you a little bit curious? Areyou a little bit curious to how it
tastes? Yeah, I mean I'mcurious. It's kind of sounds disturbing,
but yeah, there's always that intriguingfactory to it, for sure. Yeah,
I kind of want to drink itthis week, and well what it'd
be like a strawberry shortcake commas.Well that sounds good, but with beer,
(31:19):
I guess, instead of strawberries andbeer. I never thought about that
wostling. So when did the Iknow I mean, I know it's always
been in the winter, I getit, But when did it become so
try to how to word it winterized? You said germanized. There's something earlier.
I wasna Germanic. You're talking aboutlike I'm gonna say winterized. When
(31:42):
did it become so winter rized?Sleigh bells and the white PRIs all bells.
The reason why they would, like, you know, jingle bells exist
and stuff like that was it actuallygoes back to paganism again. I was
a belief that during the dark months, the veil was thin and the spirits
(32:02):
would walk the earth and keep youaway. You would shake bills and make
noise scare the demons away. Yeah, so that's where Yeah, okay,
so that that that feels like thatand save selves served a function of let
you know that it's a sleigh comingdown the road and so you don't step
(32:23):
in front of it. So likecombating like the demons with with bills and
stuff like that. That See,that seems like something the Catholic Church or
some served church would do. Uh, I'm not so sure about the dressing
up as demons and singing. TheCatholic Church actually still uses bells in mass
(32:44):
they'll jingle them at specific points aslike a a ward. Okay, all
right then yeah, it just seemslike and all that stuff that you said,
you didn't talk about winter that much, and like today, it seems
like heavily connected to winter. That'swhy I brought it up. So like
(33:04):
the the you know, the evergreenstuff and all in the winter berriers like
holly and ivy and uh, mistletoe, stuff like that. While that came
from German influence on it because theywere big about that there and it has
to do it. They're druidic hof bringing in and like Norse mythology and
stuff like that. Germanisms. Yeah, Germanism, Germans, Germans. I
(33:30):
gotta look up this word now.He couldn't making up stuff all a long.
We wouldn't know. I guess Istarted to think that about the toast,
but but I guess if it's real, yeah wow, yeah, so
and and I think I keep seeinga million dollar question is but you know,
(33:52):
you didn't talk about Santa Claus.So you know, I didn't talk
about Santa Claus because you don't believein them. No, I did kind
of gloss over like some of theother stuff that came in in like the
mid eighteen hundreds, and Santa Clausbecame like a fixture then, you know,
(34:13):
he was it was a patron SaintNicholas, and you know there were
stories how Saint Nicholas left wedding dowryfor people in there in their homes,
and so that's how I evolved,you know, Like so, like I
said, they gave cash and envelopesas gifts early on. It's kind of
the whole thing like that. Andthen Santa Claus became like the myth then
(34:37):
of Saint Nicholas going out and givinggifts to people, and that's kind of
how you bold. But it startedmostly that was mostly European until like the
eighteen fifties, and that actually thatso it actually gives me the other question
I've come from the other question.So speaking of speed of Santa Claus.
(35:00):
So there's obviously we've we've all kindof sort of heard that there's multiple types
of Santa Claus and different cultures,right, is uh, do those show
up at early American Christmases or dowe like we always like just Santa Claus.
You know, we know that allthese other cultures have other you like
(35:22):
we've got Germanistic Santa Clausistic Santa Clausand or what was it, like the
the Yule Lads. There's like fifteenof them or something like that. So
it was like, no, SantaClaus is the only one work. They
did all show up actually early on, like I said earlier, the French
(35:43):
where they had like a very moresevere and like reserved Christmas or any early
days, and then they end uphaving their version of Santa Claus, which
the name escapes here right now,but basically he would beat you at the
Cat nine Tales if you misbehaved,my gosh. But yeah, it's also
(36:06):
the German versions, like you said, the eu ole Ad and that's that's
what he would say. So thosethings were all celebrate early on too,
and that then once every day startedmelding together, Santa Claus became like the
only one in the US. Itwas kind of curious, and I wonder
if they're just like, you knowwhat, this was like the easiest one
(36:29):
to kind of like pass around,because like it pretty much was. It
was like the most popular version becauselike the kids didn't like the ones that
teach them lessons and beat them.Yeah, yeah, I mean understandably they
get all their listens from the Hornbook. Yeah, they that's what the horn
(36:50):
Book meant. So yeah, theythe kids preferred the jolly elf of Santa
Claus rather than the others. Whatwould you say is the biggest and you
know, you covered some of them, but what is the biggest Americanized Americanism,
Americanized Christmas tradition that came out ofall this? We talked about the
(37:19):
trees coming from I don't remember which, what Germany? Yes, the Germanism
trees, But what like was themost it was it the gift giving?
Was it the like? Like?What was the most American thing to come
out of and kind of morph intoits own thing version of Christmas? Would
you say that's a good question.Uh. I would have to say it
(37:44):
would be the changing of certain drinksand things such as that, because like
we mentioned that, you know,while Saul was either made with beer or
cider. Well, in the UnitedStates, if you think of apple cider,
it's usually a not alcoholic drink.They have hardsiders, like they specifically
(38:05):
call it hardsiders. Well, inEngland it's just called cider when it's heartsider,
So just apple juice yeah, soearly on or not early on.
Later on they switched out making alcoholicwascles with non alcoholic drinks here in the
United States, so it was madewith apple cider and other juices. What
(38:28):
about eggnog? When does the eggnogcoming to play? You know what's weird?
I didn't look up agnolg eggnog.Well, I know what I know
about egnog is that George Washington hasa fantastic Well supposedly, we go off
of what we think was the reality. But there is a recorded recipe for
George Washington's eggnog, and I makeit every year. Actually it's it's very
(38:54):
boozy and it's fantastic. I wasgonna say, interestingly to kind of contrasts
the non alcoholic version of like Wassaleand Insider. It seems that America has
Are you ready for what? Wikipediasays? Okay, all right, let's
go for it. Eggnog historically alsoknown as milk punch or egg milk punch.
(39:16):
While culinary historians debate its exact lineage, most agree eggnog originated from the
mid evil British drink called It's speltp O S S E T, which
was made with hot milk and wineand ale and flavored spices. And also
in the mid mid Middle Ages,it was used as cold and flu remedy.
(39:39):
That's interesting where you see that becauseof a lot of the warmer because
it's it's uh, because it canbe served hot as well. Never had
it hot those be used for likeyou know, like the hot Toddy friends.
It would be like a cold andslid remedy and that would be also
alcoholic. And it's also there's asimilar drink to a Comma Jerry Tomah Jerry,
(40:05):
yeah, and that's also served warYeah. So I was just like,
I just was just already bringing upto Tom and Jerry when you start,
I knew year it's what you're goingfor there. So Tom and Jerry
is also kind of uniquely American versionof eggnog, and it came in in
the holidays in the mid to lateeighteen hundreds and it was served in the
(40:28):
Midwest areas, so where it wasa little bit colder. They would make
this drink that was basically eggnogged,but with some different steps. You would
take the eggs and you would beatthem together with a stiffener like cream of
tartar and you would make like awhat they call it batter and have sugar
(40:50):
in there, and then you wouldtake a scoop of that batter put it
into your cup, and then youwould pour hot brandy into that and mix
it up with or also hot wateror milk as well, and you mix
that all up and then you drinkthat milk water, same king. You
can use either one for oak oatmeal. Yeah, it's pretty much what it
(41:14):
was. You could do milk orwater because it was where we had it.
Wow. So the drinks, thefeasting, I would say these aren't
necessarily unique to America, but aredefinitely something that we've lashed on to considerave
changed some like feasting and like Englandwas almost exclusively goose, but here it's
(41:35):
turkey and ham. Yeah you're notif you're eating goose. What do you
know? I don't know the turkeypopulation of England though, I can't speak
to that. Yeah, I guessthat's true. Is that just are the
turkeys in other countries? Yeah,I mean I'm sure, but yeah,
there's there's a Germanistic approach and turkeys. They are very like harsh turkeys.
(42:05):
So I'll leave it off with astory about a turkey. Okay, so
growing up says nothing to do withChristmas, but you might this might help
it. This might give you agood laugh if you listening to this near
Christmas. So growing up, mydad would we would go to this trading
event like an hour away and atthis flea it was like a flea market
(42:25):
but outside it open and basically peoplewould bring everything there and sell and trade
it fruits, vegetable stands, guns, toys, hound dogs, hunting dogs,
also anything literally. So one timeand I had to go there like
once a month. It was terribleas a kid. But one time we
(42:49):
went and we brought our turkey andmy dad want to get rid of this
turkey because this turkey was a violentturkey. And he actually got this turkey
at this place a couple months before. I don't know what he traded for
the turkey. I can't remember,but you could get I'm serious, you'd
trade stuff for you just trade.So we had this turkey at our house
(43:10):
and it was meter the hell whenyou try to feed it. Now how
one goes about feeding a turkey.It was terrible. You had to go
under the coop because it was ina coop, which you can imagine irritated
this turkey. But anyway, Iwasn't allowed to feed the turkey because it
tried to attack me once. Well, once my grandpa fed the turkey,
(43:30):
he went into the coop to feedthe turkey. And this is a true
story, by the way, andthat sounds ridiculous, but the turkey flew
at him to attack him as muchas one can fly in the coop,
and he had to hit it withthe bucket that he was using to feed
it. And when it did that, it actually formed a big knot on
its head. So my dad calledthe turkey not head. So we went
(43:52):
back to the market to get ridof this market thing, to get rid
of, to get rid of nothead. And I think my dad trade
did not head for like a smallrifle that he was going to give me
or something back. Then this isa true story. I can't believe I'm
telling this to the world here.But uh So, after the exchange was
made and the guy was holding thecage with the cage with the turkey was
(44:15):
loaded the back of his truck andwe had whatever we got, he said,
is he how is he? Mydad said, he's meaner than hell,
but he's yours now I walked away. That's the story of Turkey and
the Turkey. You're not head.I can't tell if you're screwed. No,
no, believe I'll take this touh Facebook is proof, you know.
(44:40):
I'll copy you guys on it.Yeah. Anyway, I know your
dad, so I'm sure he'll commenton it. Yeah, but no,
my dad, this shouldn't surprise youtoo much. That that's why I was
like, I believe this completely.So I have a different view on turkeys
anyway. It's nothing to do withChristmas, but it's it's a good it's
a good American story. Some wouldsay it is, Oh it is still
(45:07):
that's the nightmares about that flea marketand be so damn hot, and I'd
have to be there all day.It is literally like a big lot and
they and you'd it's like a biggrass lot in the country, middle of
nowhere, nowhere, middle of nowhere, and you'd go and you'd set up
stands there. Interesting anyway, Soyeah, uh, you guys have anything
(45:28):
else before I start to segue outof here. I don't think so we
this episode will be the one thatcomes up closest to Christmas because we normally
release on Monday. Christmas is ona Monday, so we'll release an episode
the day after. So we'll goahead and release this one two weeks before
Christmas, just to give everybody theopportunity to listen to it and let the
(45:49):
Christmas spirit develop, Let it,let it. What words could we use
that? Look you you used here? Muzzle? Yeah? Oh, mummy,
whatever the hell it was? Mummy, yeah, mummy. Yeah.
So yeah, so, yeah,this is a little bit of a celebration
of Christmas because it is Christmas,your guy's favorite holiday. Honestly, Yeah,
(46:13):
yeah, I would say so.Yeah, it's not mad right up
there with the Fort July and Christmas. Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'm just
a old man anyway. So yeah, No, seriously though, yeah,
we appreciate you listening to the podcast. This will be a little bit of
a Christmas gift for you. Areour Christmas gift to you, the American
Stories History version of Christmas. Sothis has been a fun episode. Well,
(46:36):
I don't know what we'll bring afterthis. Maybe Luke will have some
New Year's or crazy or we'll justget back to into the storyline. Who
knows. Oh yeah, we'll findout that New Year's is secretly evil holiday
too or something. Yeah, horsesheads and raising hell and drinking and purging.
By the way, that I didwatch the show The Purge in the
last week. There's a television showof it, and that's why there's been
(46:59):
so many perdrafts, per instance.Yeah, not like some deeper meaning or
anything. I literally just watched theshow. We talked about it for a
few us for the show. Yeah, before we have recorded. I gave
the recap on season one and two, so don't don't. They'll take it
to heart there anyways. So withthat being said, we have a bunch
of episodes you can listen to inthe in the back catalog that are great.
(47:22):
I'm going to pass it over toJack to take us all the way
home here. Yes, if youwant to follow us on Twitter, we're
America Stories, America's story pod andjust because there's a character limit, yes,
yes, and we've got our linkson there as well, so if
you want to follow there. Butyou can also email us at America Stories
(47:45):
Pod at gmail dot com if youhave a questions or just want to get
in contact with us or have episodeideas or something like that. And you
can also go to our website towatch all for episodes at Americastories dot U
s. Wow, he's got better, has any Luke? Yeah, you
(48:07):
definitely check out the button episode onewe did just for this Ston's revenge.
Yeah, it was open to all. He would connect with Christmas, but
he's just too much of a humbugto connect. He didn't believe in Christmas
terribly. He was a funny daddy. Well yeah, everybody listening, Merry
Christmas, and we appreciate you supportingthe show. So until next time,
(48:30):
keep being you and keep being great. Got the kind of fix everybody knows
ut around there for wed You likehim and you do as well. People
(48:53):
know the thank the d inside thebest us. Take care on you all
you so to some of us dothis, wee can some of must do.
(49:35):
Jeff Townsend Media said you good night. And the question is do I
stay here? Will you be back? Are you going to come back?
Will you be back? Are youcoming back
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.