December 14, 2022 • 29 mins
On this episode of Indiana Stories:Jeff Townsend talks to Dave Dynasty, Host of the Wrestling Nostalgia Podcast.Jeff and Dave discuss Dick the Bruiser- Indiana native Professional Wrestler. They talk about Dick's life pre wrestling, some of the achievements throughout his career, and how important of a role he played in the Professional Wrestling industry.Thanks for listening to the podcast, listen to more episodes to hear more Indiana Stories.Indiana StoriesCheck out the Wrestling Nostalgia Podcast!More information on Dick the Bruiser.Theme music provided by the ElmsUse Poddin for your podcast transcript, they've got all the tools that make it easy and great!Use PodcastPage to create a professional website for your content. Use the code INDIEPODCASTER to get 15% off!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This podcast is a Jeff Townsend Mediaproduction. This is Jeff Townsend. Thank
you for joining us for another episodeof Indiana Stories. It's time for another
(00:23):
Indiana Story. Welcome to Indiana Stories. I'm the host, Jeff Townsend,
and I'm glad that you are checkingthis episode out today, and I hope
you've been enjoying the podcast so far. We've got a lot of positive feedback.
If you're trying to get caught upor you're just now getting into it,
you can go to Indiana Stories dotcom and check out all the previous
episodes. We've covered the Delphi casein detail with updates as they come out,
and then we've covered such things asVincen's Indiana's First City, the Great
(00:47):
Squirrel Stampede that happened in Hamilton County, the haunting at the Willard Library,
and Evansville. So we're sharing allsorts of cool Indiana stories. So yeah,
go to Indiana Stories dot com andcheck it out today. Actually going
to talk about a legend from Indiana. So Dick the Bruiser had a big
impact on professional wrestling and being bornin Delphi then being located really in Indianapolis.
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The majority of his life thereafter andrunning a wrestling promotion there. He
was a significant part of Indiana's professionalwrestling history and then professional wrestling as well.
Because he's a Hall of Famer,I'm not an expert on this topic,
so I did reach out to anexpert that was we'll call him Nostalgic
Dave Dynasty. He actually has areally awesome podcast, Wrestling Nostalgia with of
course he's Dave Dynasty, and hecovers great things in wrestling history. I
(01:32):
can't tell you enough how cool itis just to hear these great stories and
details from the past. But thisconversation I had with him, he comes
in and he walks through Dick theBruiser's career and also his impact that he
had on the industry. So it'sa really awesome conversation. I think the
big takeaway here is you don't heara lot about those stories Forredict the Bruiser
anymore, so we're so by sharingthem, people are doing their part and
(01:52):
preserving them, and Dave does agreat job with that, and that's what
we're trying to do on this podcastas well. So Yeah, if you
want to reach out to me andcontact me, you can email me at
Jeff at Townsend dot media. Alsoa contact form on Indiana Stories dot com.
You'll find it in the contact sectionthere. And before we roll into
this, I do want to thinkthree different people like I do every episode.
You're all familiar with it now.The first one's podon dot io.
(02:14):
Best transcription service that there is themost accurate. I use it for all
my episodes and all the content Icreate, So check out poden dot io.
Of course, we have Boomcaster.I recorded this conversation with Dave.
Heck, I'm even recording this introright here on Boomcaster. It is a
content creators alternative to zoom by farmore superior and better quality. Also checkout
(02:36):
podcast page dot io. That's whatI manage all of my website off of
The teams are great there and isreally the easiest way to create a website,
especially if you have a podcast.You just plug in your RSS feed.
It generates everything from there. It'sincredible, it really is. Okay,
well, we'll go ahead and jumpinto this conversation that I have with
Dave about Dick de Bruiser, Andthis is another Indiana story that I hope
you enjoy. I have Dave Dynastwith me from the Wrestling Nostalgia podcast,
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and we're gonna be talking about anIndiana legend wrestler a wrestler today. But
Dave, the floor is yours tokind of talk about yourself and how long
you've been on this topic because Icould tell you're a huge fan just by
looking at what's behind you. Thenhow excited are you to talk about what
we're gonna talk about today? Iam always I'm always excited to talk about
wrestling. It's one of my favoritethings to talk about. I've been a
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wrestling fan my entire life, aslong as I can remember. My grandma
was a wrestling fan. She watchedindie wrestling that was on and so at
a very young age when I spentweekends with her and so, we we'd
always watch wrestling and that included theWrestling out of Indianapolis that was on every
Saturday. I think a lot ofus have stories like that, like right
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where childhood big influences, some ofus stick stick to it. So you
have a podcast about wrestling, well, I'll make sure I get it in
the show notes and everything. Buthow long have you been doing that?
Um? Four years? We aregetting ready to release our two hundredth episode
on our next one, so we'vewe've kind of been on hiatus for a
little bit. I am. I'moriginally from Indiana. I'm from Columbus,
Indiana born and raised. But thelast three or so years I've lived in
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North Carolina for work moved here.So since moving here and taking a new
work position, it's my podcasting schedulehas been a little off. Well,
this podcast really I share Indiana stories, right, cool people, significant events,
stuff like that, And I thinkDick the Bruiser is a significant person
for what he did for the wrestlingindustry in general, but then also in
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Indiana. So I'm excited to takea few minutes to talk to you about
him today. Yeah, Bruiser's Imean, he's one of the biggest names
ever and professional and not even justIndiana. Yeah, I mean it was
obviously a different a little different timethan the current product, but yeah,
I mean in his time, hewas one of the biggest draws and biggest
attractions in professional wrestling. Yeah.So he's born in nineteen twenty nine.
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His name is William Afflis. Ithink I'm saying that, right, Am
I saying that right, do youknow, Yep, yep, correct,
Delphi. Right, He's born indel Fight, relocated to Indianapolis at a
young age, and that's where heactually grew up. Correct, he did
well. They actually moved back toDelphi, I think during his high school,
but when he went into he wasborn in Delphi, moved to Indianapolis
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and played football in high school,and then I think his mom took a
different position. His mom was veryactive in the Democratic Party in the state
politics, state politics. She wasvery big in the Democratic Party and actually
a lot of her letters and differentthings around the Indiana Public Library. Her
name's Margaret. You can find those, you know, they're at the indian
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Public Library. She was a veryprominent figure at that time in the Indiana
Democratic Party because of her work inher positions and everything else. They end
up moving back to Delphi, wherethey didn't have a football program, but
he Dick actually lived at a localy MCA and Lafayette stayed there, which
enabled him to go to high schoolin Lafayette and continue to play football Lafia,
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Jeff, wasn't it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He moved around a little bit,like I said, because of his mom's
job. But yeah, he wasfrom Delphi, lived in Indianapolis, and
then went back to the Delphi Lafayettearea then for college. That was significant
I assume as part of football aswell. Correct, he went to Purdue
for a bit, but then ultimatelylanded at the University of Nevada Reno,
And yeah, I played college footballthere. Was kind of developed a reputation
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as a bit of a roughneck anda little rough on the field, but
yeah, he played college football.I'm just reading here. I'm not gonna
lie on eighty six overall pick,sixteenth round nineteen fifty one football draft.
That's actually pretty cool. Green BayPackers three years stint there as a lineman.
Correct, he wasn't what you wouldcall a big star, but he
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did make the roster, did playfor them. Again, was a bit
of a roughneck. There's lots oftalks about what happened in the end.
He was known for taking liberties onthe field, so ultimately I think that
kind of led to his release.He was kind of a what you might
call a little bit of a dirtyplayer, an aggressive player. Why he
did play professional football. He didsuffer a larynx injury which kind of resulted
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in that gravelly, rough voice thathe was known for during his professional wrestling
career. It was kind of aresult of that injury he sustained while playing
pro football for the Packers he gotinto wrestling. And excuse me, he
got into wrestling in pretty young age, right because he has a few years
with the Packers and then right afterwardsthat's when he starts training for professional wrestling.
He's trained by vern Gania, legendaryvirn Gania. I'll let you touch
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up on that for a minute.I know that was nineteen fifty four,
so yeah, he's not even twentyfive yet and he's already getting into what's
it like being trained by verne Gania. From what the stories are, it's
very tough. Yeah, training atthat time. They wanted to first weed
out the people who were not seriousabout it, so there was that you
got stretched. There were some libertiesprobably taken to make sure that you would
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come back the next day. ButBruiser, like I said, he was
a tough guy. I mean hewas already established, you know, as
is being tough through this football careerand his football days, so he made
it. Verrn Gania liked guys withthose kind of backgrounds with amateur kind of
backgrounds, whether it be in football, professional wrestling, whatever else. He
liked guys that had legitimate athletic backgrounds. And Dick the Bruiser, I mean,
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because of his luck, his size, that gravelly voice, he was
custom made to be a professional wrestlingbad guy. Yeah, sure, nineteen
a little bit. I don't knowhow long you're trained. But for us
to say the next year he's alreadywrestling. It looks like in the local
scene, like maybe Chicago, Yeah, priarily in Chicago. He kind of
you know, all over the Midwest, but Chicago was a huge market at
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the time. There was wrestling thatwas taped at the Marigold Hotel in Chicago
that was on the Dumont television network, and that was a huge television program
at that time. Chicago wrestling wasone of the first television programs that was
almost national. You know, thatcomes more into the eighties. You know,
we think with Vins mcman in theWWE, but Chicago wrestling at the
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Marigold Hotel was almost national in theDumont network in the fifties and sixty in
early sixties, and Bruiser was ahuge star as a hell wrestling for them,
wrestled and you know, you knowVern Gaya and Wilbur Snyder and different
guys like that. He was,like I said, he was the perfect
foil for those good guys. LikeI said, he's a roughneck so and
he had that luck in that voice. So. But yeah, he first
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became a star there in Chicago,and the mid fifty started in fifty five.
It really in Chicago. I think. One of the cool things that
I read just a couple of yearsinto it, he is in tag team
matches at Madison Square Garden in NewYork City in front of you know,
over ten thousand fans. That's probablyquite the accomplishment back then he was.
But that didn't laugh. It didn'tlast very long because in fifty seven he
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was teaming with doctor Jerry Graham againsta Toni Roca and Edward Carpi Carpeeria.
We have trouble with that name.They After the bell rang, the brawl
continued on right in professional wrestling style, and it led to a full scale
riot right there in the inn thegarden. There was you know where there
was police officers injured, fans injured. It was it was a huge melee
huge thing and it resulted and Bruiserhe was banned by the New York State
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Athletic Commission from wrestling in New Yorkfor life after that. Like I said,
that was a fifty seven. Thatwas very early in his career,
but he kind of gained a namewith that Riot. Bruiser was very good
about doing stuff like that. Hewas a very good at the self promoting
and doing things kind of outside thering and outside the realm of the the
show to kind of draw some attention, some of it you know, legal,
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some of it, uh whatever,but but drawing that attention on him.
But yeah, he was. Hewas a big star there in New
York for a while until that thatband came in. That barral and that
Riot also a legitimate tough guy,right, you know, there's there's lots
of stories about Bruiser and things likethat. Uh. You know, in
the early sixties in Detroit, hewas going to wrestle Alex Carriss, who's
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an NFL player. A lot ofus most know Alex Carris as being the
dad and the TV show Webster fromthe eighties. Yeah, that was Alex
Carris. They were going to havea match and it was, you know,
a big deal, and as tokind of promote the match, they
had agreed Bruiser was going to goto Carriss's bar and they were going to
stage a brawl, you know,to kind of get some attention, some
you know, some hopefully some mediaattention. Well the thing is some of
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Karis's family was there and it workedin the bar, and they no one
kind of smartened them up or cluethem in, and they got in bar
involved in the brawl. So Bruisierdidn't back down and he ended up fighting
back. The bar was almost asignificant damage of the bar, lots of
people injured, police officers injured.You hear wild tales about how many people
were injured in this brawl. ButBruiser was arrested and charged with assault,
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mostly for because of the brawling withthe police officers, and you know,
and he had to end up payingI think fifty thousand dollars to help cover
the damages of the bar and someof the expenses for the police and stuff
like that. So he liked todo that kind of stuff to promote things
and get that media attention. Hewasn't afraid to take it too far,
and he was fully capable of backingit up. You know physically, that's
a lot of money back then,when you really think about it, that's
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a heavy fine for his actions backthen, especially so obviously moved on to
other promotions, and this is whenkind of like the territories are really shape
it out and there are certain onesthat are bigger than others. Can you
speak on where he really that likewhat that next step for him was when
he got past this, like withthese incidents were talking about, Bruiser was
a little different, right. Hewas, like I said, he was
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a roughneck. He looked like ayou know, this tough guy. But
he was born into a wealthy familyand it was was educated. He understood
things very well. So Bruiser veryquickly realized the big money was in the
promoting side, in owning your ownterritory, owning your own promotion. Bruiser
partnered up with wil Ward Snyder andthen began promoting out of Indianapolis as the
World Wrestling Association. Bruiser he hadaspects that people call kind of shady and
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things because the actual company was actuallyin Snyder and Will and Bruiser's wives names
so that they could continue to wrestlewithout being you know, the quote unquote
promoters or owners of the business.Lots of people say that he bought the
Indianapolis territory. That's that's really notnot not true. He actually there was
Actually I've kind of researched and donesome things, and there are newspaper ads
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where he actually ran opposition to JimBart who was the promoter Indianpolis at that
time. A lot of people thinkhe bought the promotion from Jim Barnette,
but he started running prior to Barnetteleaving Indianapolis in opposition to pretty much ran
him out of business and ran himout of Indiana. I don't think Bruiser
was the type that was going tobuy into anything. If he wanted something,
he was just going to go inand take it. I mean,
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years later he tried to do thatwith the Detroit promotion, which was ran
by the Sheik. He tried tomove in and run at the Olympian Detroit
and just he ran an opposition andtried to just take Detroit from the Chik.
And it was several years this bigbattle and big war that kind of
resulted in neither one of them reallyprevailed and Bruiser eventually just backed off.
But to make a long story short, though, Bruiser realized the money was
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in promoting, so his kind ofhis next step after after that was running
his own promotion, which he ranfor over twenty years in Indiana, and
they did just going back to likesome of the other territories. He did
connect with verting Gania again correct usingthat resource and wasn't The AWA was pretty
involved with What's WWA. Yeah yeah, Him and Verne always had a good
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relationship and even when he started runningthe WWA were kind of him. Verne
and Wilbert Snyder partners in Chicago.They ran Chicago as together, so the
Chicago shows were kind of a mixof WWA talent in AWA talent. There
were kind of these big, kindof megash type shows. But because they
had this kind of agreement in thispartnership, it enabled Bruiser. He continued
to work in the AWA for Ganya. He did continue to work in Saint
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Louis and wrestled there a lot.He was a big star in Saint Louis,
you know, and he would makeappearances and shots and other places.
I mean he you know, hewent down I mean, he appeared pretty
much everywhere, you know, atsome point or another, but never anything
long term except for you know,the kind of the partnership with him and
Verne in Chicago and him in periodand ative. He was a big star
in the AWA. He's particularly withthe Crusher as a tag team. Now,
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that's not uncommon then too. Let'sjust say somebody was a heel.
Back then, it's not uncommon tomove around quite a bit because you were
doing these shows in front of thesame crowds all the time, right,
So you couldn't just be like now, obviously it's it's different, but back
then you're literal go into live eventthe same people typically, so you really
had to shake things up. Yeah, most territories had had weekly schedules and
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they would run towns monthly or weeklywhere they would every you know whatever,
every Monday, you like, saylike Memphis, every Monday, you'd be
in Memphis, you know, andthen you would run Evansville or whatever the
towns would be. So you wereat these towns every week. Often guys
would be there, you know whateversix to ten months something like that,
or a year, and then theywould go off to another territory. For
a while and then often they wouldcome back. But there was the whole
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adage of you know, if yougo away, the fans would miss you
and then want you to come back. And if you stay over states you're
welcome. You you'd kind of youknow, wear out and run out of
ideals, particularly if you're heels,because you know, good typically prevails over
evil, so the good guys wouldhave to go away for a while,
and then you know, the newbad guy would come in to face the
local heroes. Yeah. Absolutely.What are some other career highlights as far
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as accomplishments that really stand out toyou? For Dick Throuser, Well,
I mean, like I said,he was a big star in the AWA
with Krusher. They held the tagtitles five times. There wrestled virtually everybody
including I mean there's a I meanup into the early eighties. I mean
where they wrestled the road Warriors andsome you know, some guys like that
early in their careers, you know, like I said in the WWA his
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promotion, he held the title likethirteen times, the tag titles I think
fifteen times, which you know somepeople laugh at because you know, he
owned the promotion but I always comewith the defense that you know, if
he held the title thirteen times,you know he was losing it too.
And I think Bruiser really understood theart of the chase, so he would
be the champion, right he was. Bruiser was the hero, right he
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was the big star. But heunderstood that if he'd bring in the top
bad guy lose the title to him, the money was in that chase for
him to try to get it back, so then he would regain it rants
and repeat with the next bad guy. I would think, I mean,
honestly, as far as his impacton wrestling, I mean, Bruiser's biggest
accomplishment, it is probably the factthat he gave the career start to Bobby
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Heenan who pretty much everybody that's evena peripheral wrestling fan knows. Bobby was,
you know, just an Indianapolis kidthat loved wrestling. As started with
Bruiser's promotion, carrying coats to thelocker room when the wrestlers would come out,
just doing odd jobs for Bruiser,and then just one day out of
the blue, Bruiser calls him andsays, you know, we had Bobby
show up for interviews. Well,actually Bobby's name is Raymond. As a
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Raymond show up. You know you'regonna start managing and we're gonna call you
Bobby, you know. Heenan sayshe had never understood why he changed his
name to Bobby when his name isRaymond. Most people suspect there was a
very prolific manager back in the daycalled Bobby Davis. He was the blueprint
for the modern the eighties wrestling manager. He was doing a lot of that
in the but before that time,a lot of people just suspect that,
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you know, maybe that name wason bruisos Brus Bruiser didn't overthink too much
when things like that. It wasjust kind of a fly off the cuff.
But like I said, he got, you know, Bobby Heenan start.
He started, you know Jimmy andJohnny Valiant, the Valiant brothers who
became big stars in the WWF laterin the seventies. He first formed the
tech team known as the Black Jacks, who were big stars in the WWF
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in the seventies. Late in hiscareer when he was he wasn't quite as
deeply involved, but his promotion actuallygave the start to Scott Steiner. That
was his first promotion where he trainedin first appeared under his real name of
Scott reck Steiner. So I thinkthose kinds of things are probably his biggest
impact. I mean, he wasa huge draw, a huge star.
Bruiser gets the rap a lot oftimes of not nurturing young talent because a
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lot of the wrestlers he used upunder the eighties were fairly old, but
there were there were spots where hedid he gave opportunities to guys and that
became big stars in the business.He worked with quite a bit of people
that we really know about, andwhen you talk about the WWWF WWF,
they kind of set the narrative onwrestling history, right. I mean,
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there's no doubt about that. Buteven names like Bruno, He's wrestled Bruno,
s Martini, he Luthez, likeDick the Bruiser has wrestled all these
big time Let's just say these namesthat are bigger than him now, because
that's, like I said, that'swhat they're going to talk about their people.
But he wrestled like Dicktor Bruiser waswrestling everybody that was an absolute huge,
major star back then. Because hewas himself. He was Yeah.
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Him and Bruno were very good friends. During one of the periods where Bruno
was kind of on the outs withthe WWF, Bruno actually wrestled for a
few months in Indianapolis and actually himand Bruiser held the tag titles. They're
in Indianapolis together, and that wasjust pure I mean, Bruno didn't do
that. I mean he didn't reallywrestle for a lot of other people.
But because him and you know,Bruiser were, they were close and he
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had a lot of respect for Bruiser. He came and did shots in Indianapolis.
Lots of guys did Andrea the Giantyou know, wrestled Indianapolis. Harley
Race wrestled in Indianapolis. Bruisers oftencredited with given Andre the Giant his name,
because when Andrea was going to comein and do a show, he
was still wrestling under his real name. I think was Andre for forree Year
or something. It's a French typename. Bruiser didn't think that sounded impactful
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enough, so he said, we'regonna call him Andre the Giant because he's
such a big guy. I don'tknow whether that's documented as proof or not,
but that's the you know wrestling.He's got a lot of tall tales.
But yeah, yeah, for sure. Like I said, Bruiser wrestled
everywhere. Got to know these guysand you know, they had a lot
of respect for him. They oftencame in and helped him out and worked
for him when during downtimes in theircareers. So anybody, it's anybody during
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this period, he's wrestled somewhere inthis country, somewhere in the world.
I mean, he was big.Him to Crush were huge in Japan.
They're big stars in Japan too,so even even you know, carries over
to the some of the Japanese legends. Bruisers wrestled all them as well.
What did the promotion that he ranfall victim too? Because I know he
ended up in WCW as an agentin the early nineties or but like there
(20:37):
had to be did it just fallvictim to like while these other territories did
or what was the story with that? Yeah, when they got into the
eighties, Bruiser he kind of backedoff a little. What Bruiser's wife was
did not like professional wrestling so much, and you know he was getting up
there in years and he wanted totake a step back, so he kind
of he sold the promotion off toJerry Jaffe, who was wrestled as Doctor
(20:59):
Jerry Graham Junior, and a coupleof other investors, and the promotion kind
of moved its base to Toledo,Ohio. Bruiser kind of stayed involved,
he did commentary for them and everythingelse, but he really wasn't the primary
owner and booker anymore. They werestill doing okay, it was just the
changing of the scene. Yeah,it wasn't really, you know, everybody.
(21:21):
Everybody says, you know, Vincemcmanon, Vince McMahon vinscman And there's
a lot to that because you know, Vince came in and signed away everybody's
top stars, you know, camein and bought TV time in the nation,
and and you know, he didput a lot of guys quote unquote
out of business. I think therewas the bigger picture of overall wrestling was
just moving national. You know,so it is cable, right, I
(21:41):
mean it was just that time,yeah, yeah, and everything was moving
to a bigger scale, and itjust regional promotions just weren't. They weren't
the thing anymore, right, Alot of them. Some of them hung
around on local TV for a bit, but they you know, they weren't
drawing in the thousands like they werein the seventies. It's just everybody wanted
the shiny, slick professional wrestling theysaw on cable TV. You know,
I think entertainment as a whole changethat way, and then wrestling it was
(22:03):
just part of it. Being innovative. Being ahead of it then is what
really laid the foundation for everything today. A lot of those promoters at that
time, they just they didn't forwardthink like that. They didn't they didn't
see that. They thought this hasalways worked, it will always work.
It didn't work that way. Itjust you know, they didn't evolve,
and you know, they kind ofaged out a little bit. You know.
(22:23):
It's it got it went passed them, and that's just the way it
is. Well, when I finishedup what I was said, he was
in a WCW. I believe wasan agent. Oh yes, and he
don't I don't know like what matcheshe was a part of or what impact
he had there, but he was. His death came not long after that,
so it seems like he was workingin the industry up until he died
(22:45):
in some fashion or form. Idon't think he worked a whole lot with
WCW. It was just sporadic hereand there. He did referee the main
event at Starcade nineteen ninety, whichI think was staying in the Black Scorpion
in a cage match. He refereedthat. That was kind of his last
big public appearance. But yeah,he died ninety one. Him and his
wife were living primarily in Florida atthat time. The word is he was
(23:07):
actually making appearances on little shows inthat area just weeks before and everything else.
But his wife said, and andofficial said, he was lifting weights
in his garage. He had youknow, weight setups, busted a blood
vessel and had internal bleeding. That'swhat That's what caught him. So even
up to that point at you know, it's type of that he was.
He was lifting weights and being Bruiserand everything else. So I don't I
(23:27):
don't think Bruiser, no matter howlong he lived, would have ever fully
stepped away. I think if hewould have made appearances or done something,
I think he just loved it.It was in his blood. I think
he would have stuck with it inone way or another however, could have
been he did, you know,make the w TWB Hall of Fame years
later? I mean it was muchpast his death. Was it twenty twenty
one or twenty twenty l it's thisrecent, yeah, twenty twenty one.
(23:48):
Yeah, it was just a coupleof years ago, and it was just
in one of those well I'm notsure what they call him. I can't
remember what they call him. There'sa just a video package that's like yeah,
and it's it's kind of weird becausehe's you know, he was such
a big star for them in thein the sixties and everything in fifties,
the company, but you know,his family doesn't stay involved. There was
(24:08):
you know, there was nothing,no one. No one is out there
hyping the the the image and thethe memory and the estate of Adict the
bruiser like a lot of these guysdo. That might be part of it,
yeah, the yeah, well,it's just it just survives in stories,
right like like like the ones we'rediscussing right now. Yeah, so
underwhelming for sure, just like noone there on his behalf speaking the I
(24:32):
mean, it's a good to beinducted in that Hall of Fame. There's
no doubt. I don't care whatanybody says, I mean, but it
was an underwhelming for sure. SoI think my question for you, Davis,
fore we put a book in onthis at the end of the day,
what would you say his importance wasto the industry? And then let's
tie it back to Indiana because I'mnot familiar with any and you can correct
me. I'm sure any other wrestlersfrom Indiana notably like he was. I
(24:56):
mean, that's that was like,that's what he's known for. That's what
people speak about today on him whenthey're talking about the territories and everything.
I mean he was, yeah,and is the wrestler from Indiana. Yeah,
I think. I mean, Ithink if you look at Dick the
bruiser of all he was, Ithink he was innovative as a wrestler because
I think you can see traces ofwhat he did as this rough, tough,
(25:18):
uh you know, beer drinking,foul mouth kind of guy into guys
today, like you know, thebrock Lessners and guys like that. I
think you could see that lineage tothat, and he was kind of one
of the first did that in abig sale. He was a huge drawl
and a huge attraction in the fiftiesand sixties and seventies as a wrestler and
a promoter. I mean, andof course his roots were always in the
(25:41):
Midwest, particularly in indian especially whenhe got into promoting, and he was
a huge, a huge component inthe state. I mean, he contributed
to a lot of charities, dida lot of work and whatever else his
his his feet. You know.He lived in Indianapolis until he quote unquote
retired and moved to Florida, sohe kept his roots here. I mean.
David Letterman was a huge fan ofDick the Bruiser and named his band
(26:03):
on his show the World's Most DangerousBand, in an homage to Dick the
Bruiser, whose nickname was the World'smost Dangerous Wrestler. He had Bruiser on
his show. He was one ofthose guys that even when he stepped away
from the national spotlight, he wasstill a huge draw in Indiana, huge
attraction India. Everybody in Indiana atthat time had a Dick the Bruiser story,
whether it was seeing him on TVor seeing him at a show,
(26:23):
or I mean, my dad wasa police officer in Columbus, Indiana.
His entire career, and he hasa story of after a show one night,
pulling Dick the Bruiser over for speedingthrough town. Bruiser pretty much sweet
talked to him by showing him thechampionship belts and all this and that and
chatting with him and got all thespeeding ticket by doing that. So,
I mean, everybody at that timefrom the seventies and eighties had one of
(26:45):
those those Bruiser stories. He's alegendary figure in Indiana entertainment history. This
conversation has been awesome and I wasso excited to talk about it. You
don't always associate people on a widescale wrestling professional wrestling with indie ya,
so it's actually really cool to havethis conversation. But Dave, I want
to give a minute to talk aboutwhat you're doing and if people want to
(27:07):
hear more stories like this, youobviously have a really good platform for that,
So I want to give you aminute to talk about that. I
mean, like you said, Ihave a podcast. It's called Wrestling Nostalgia.
I've done it for several years andit kind of is all over the
place with wrestling. I talked tolots of young wrestlers and different wrestlers,
but the center of it has alwaysbeen Midwest professional wrestling. And I get
a lot of historical figures and guyslike that on there, and we talk
a lot about Midwest wrestling history.It's it's typically a history and there's lots
(27:32):
of Bruiser stories, lots of WWAstories on there, and you can find
that on any podcast platform. It'sout there everywhere. And like I said,
we're getting ready to release our twohundredth episode in the next few weeks.
Yeah, it's like I said,there's a huge back catalog there to
listen to if anybody wants to diveinto more. I'm pretty active on social
media. You can find me onTwitter at the Dave Dynasty. That's kind
of the hub to find everything Ido. Indianapolis wrestling in the WDBAS is
(27:56):
really overlooked in the grand scheme andthe history. When people talk major promotions,
you know, people talk Memphis,they talk mid South, they talk
mid Atlantic, they talk all theseother things. And in the seventies,
the WWA and Dick the Bruiser wasone of the biggest draws in professional wrestling,
and in many circles they were consideredin the top three drawing territories in
(28:17):
the country promotions in the country,and this is when the WWWWF was still
kind of a regional territory. Soit's it's but it's often overlooked, and
I think a lot of that hasto do with there's there's not enough people
out there kind of champion the legacyof the WWA and Dick the Bruiser,
and we're trying to keep the storiesalive with doing things like this, So
Dave, I appreciate you taking thetime to do this, and everybody make
sure you check out the awesome stuffthat he's doing. Yep, thank you,
(28:41):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Indiana Stories. If you like
what you heard, you can goto Indiana Stories dot com for more episodes
and other stories relating to Indiana.Also, if you're enjoying this podcast,
there's several things you can follow,the podcast itself, the newsletter, and
various other things. Thanks again forlisten, and we will be back with
another episode and I hope you joinus for another Indiana Story anywa. And
(29:30):
the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you
gonna come back? Will you beback? Are you coming back
This podcast is a Jeff Townsend Mediaproduction. This is Jeff Townsend. Thank
you for joining us for another episodeof Indiana Stories. It's time for another
(00:23):
Indiana Story. Welcome to Indiana Stories. I'm the host, Jeff Townsend,
and I'm glad that you are checkingthis episode out today, and I hope
you've been enjoying the podcast so far. We've got a lot of positive feedback.
If you're trying to get caught upor you're just now getting into it,
you can go to Indiana Stories dotcom and check out all the previous
episodes. We've covered the Delphi casein detail with updates as they come out,
and then we've covered such things asVincen's Indiana's First City, the Great
(00:47):
Squirrel Stampede that happened in Hamilton County, the haunting at the Willard Library,
and Evansville. So we're sharing allsorts of cool Indiana stories. So yeah,
go to Indiana Stories dot com andcheck it out today. Actually going
to talk about a legend from Indiana. So Dick the Bruiser had a big
impact on professional wrestling and being bornin Delphi then being located really in Indianapolis.
(01:07):
The majority of his life thereafter andrunning a wrestling promotion there. He
was a significant part of Indiana's professionalwrestling history and then professional wrestling as well.
Because he's a Hall of Famer,I'm not an expert on this topic,
so I did reach out to anexpert that was we'll call him Nostalgic
Dave Dynasty. He actually has areally awesome podcast, Wrestling Nostalgia with of
course he's Dave Dynasty, and hecovers great things in wrestling history. I
(01:32):
can't tell you enough how cool itis just to hear these great stories and
details from the past. But thisconversation I had with him, he comes
in and he walks through Dick theBruiser's career and also his impact that he
had on the industry. So it'sa really awesome conversation. I think the
big takeaway here is you don't heara lot about those stories Forredict the Bruiser
anymore, so we're so by sharingthem, people are doing their part and
(01:52):
preserving them, and Dave does agreat job with that, and that's what
we're trying to do on this podcastas well. So Yeah, if you
want to reach out to me andcontact me, you can email me at
Jeff at Townsend dot media. Alsoa contact form on Indiana Stories dot com.
You'll find it in the contact sectionthere. And before we roll into
this, I do want to thinkthree different people like I do every episode.
You're all familiar with it now.The first one's podon dot io.
(02:14):
Best transcription service that there is themost accurate. I use it for all
my episodes and all the content Icreate, So check out poden dot io.
Of course, we have Boomcaster.I recorded this conversation with Dave.
Heck, I'm even recording this introright here on Boomcaster. It is a
content creators alternative to zoom by farmore superior and better quality. Also checkout
(02:36):
podcast page dot io. That's whatI manage all of my website off of
The teams are great there and isreally the easiest way to create a website,
especially if you have a podcast.You just plug in your RSS feed.
It generates everything from there. It'sincredible, it really is. Okay,
well, we'll go ahead and jumpinto this conversation that I have with
Dave about Dick de Bruiser, Andthis is another Indiana story that I hope
you enjoy. I have Dave Dynastwith me from the Wrestling Nostalgia podcast,
(03:02):
and we're gonna be talking about anIndiana legend wrestler a wrestler today. But
Dave, the floor is yours tokind of talk about yourself and how long
you've been on this topic because Icould tell you're a huge fan just by
looking at what's behind you. Thenhow excited are you to talk about what
we're gonna talk about today? Iam always I'm always excited to talk about
wrestling. It's one of my favoritethings to talk about. I've been a
(03:23):
wrestling fan my entire life, aslong as I can remember. My grandma
was a wrestling fan. She watchedindie wrestling that was on and so at
a very young age when I spentweekends with her and so, we we'd
always watch wrestling and that included theWrestling out of Indianapolis that was on every
Saturday. I think a lot ofus have stories like that, like right
(03:44):
where childhood big influences, some ofus stick stick to it. So you
have a podcast about wrestling, well, I'll make sure I get it in
the show notes and everything. Buthow long have you been doing that?
Um? Four years? We aregetting ready to release our two hundredth episode
on our next one, so we'vewe've kind of been on hiatus for a
little bit. I am. I'moriginally from Indiana. I'm from Columbus,
Indiana born and raised. But thelast three or so years I've lived in
(04:08):
North Carolina for work moved here.So since moving here and taking a new
work position, it's my podcasting schedulehas been a little off. Well,
this podcast really I share Indiana stories, right, cool people, significant events,
stuff like that, And I thinkDick the Bruiser is a significant person
for what he did for the wrestlingindustry in general, but then also in
(04:31):
Indiana. So I'm excited to takea few minutes to talk to you about
him today. Yeah, Bruiser's Imean, he's one of the biggest names
ever and professional and not even justIndiana. Yeah, I mean it was
obviously a different a little different timethan the current product, but yeah,
I mean in his time, hewas one of the biggest draws and biggest
attractions in professional wrestling. Yeah.So he's born in nineteen twenty nine.
(04:53):
His name is William Afflis. Ithink I'm saying that, right, Am
I saying that right, do youknow, Yep, yep, correct,
Delphi. Right, He's born indel Fight, relocated to Indianapolis at a
young age, and that's where heactually grew up. Correct, he did
well. They actually moved back toDelphi, I think during his high school,
but when he went into he wasborn in Delphi, moved to Indianapolis
(05:14):
and played football in high school,and then I think his mom took a
different position. His mom was veryactive in the Democratic Party in the state
politics, state politics. She wasvery big in the Democratic Party and actually
a lot of her letters and differentthings around the Indiana Public Library. Her
name's Margaret. You can find those, you know, they're at the indian
(05:35):
Public Library. She was a veryprominent figure at that time in the Indiana
Democratic Party because of her work inher positions and everything else. They end
up moving back to Delphi, wherethey didn't have a football program, but
he Dick actually lived at a localy MCA and Lafayette stayed there, which
enabled him to go to high schoolin Lafayette and continue to play football Lafia,
(05:59):
Jeff, wasn't it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He moved around a little bit,like I said, because of his mom's
job. But yeah, he wasfrom Delphi, lived in Indianapolis, and
then went back to the Delphi Lafayettearea then for college. That was significant
I assume as part of football aswell. Correct, he went to Purdue
for a bit, but then ultimatelylanded at the University of Nevada Reno,
And yeah, I played college footballthere. Was kind of developed a reputation
(06:20):
as a bit of a roughneck anda little rough on the field, but
yeah, he played college football.I'm just reading here. I'm not gonna
lie on eighty six overall pick,sixteenth round nineteen fifty one football draft.
That's actually pretty cool. Green BayPackers three years stint there as a lineman.
Correct, he wasn't what you wouldcall a big star, but he
(06:40):
did make the roster, did playfor them. Again, was a bit
of a roughneck. There's lots oftalks about what happened in the end.
He was known for taking liberties onthe field, so ultimately I think that
kind of led to his release.He was kind of a what you might
call a little bit of a dirtyplayer, an aggressive player. Why he
did play professional football. He didsuffer a larynx injury which kind of resulted
(07:01):
in that gravelly, rough voice thathe was known for during his professional wrestling
career. It was kind of aresult of that injury he sustained while playing
pro football for the Packers he gotinto wrestling. And excuse me, he
got into wrestling in pretty young age, right because he has a few years
with the Packers and then right afterwardsthat's when he starts training for professional wrestling.
He's trained by vern Gania, legendaryvirn Gania. I'll let you touch
(07:25):
up on that for a minute.I know that was nineteen fifty four,
so yeah, he's not even twentyfive yet and he's already getting into what's
it like being trained by verne Gania. From what the stories are, it's
very tough. Yeah, training atthat time. They wanted to first weed
out the people who were not seriousabout it, so there was that you
got stretched. There were some libertiesprobably taken to make sure that you would
(07:46):
come back the next day. ButBruiser, like I said, he was
a tough guy. I mean hewas already established, you know, as
is being tough through this football careerand his football days, so he made
it. Verrn Gania liked guys withthose kind of backgrounds with amateur kind of
backgrounds, whether it be in football, professional wrestling, whatever else. He
liked guys that had legitimate athletic backgrounds. And Dick the Bruiser, I mean,
(08:07):
because of his luck, his size, that gravelly voice, he was
custom made to be a professional wrestlingbad guy. Yeah, sure, nineteen
a little bit. I don't knowhow long you're trained. But for us
to say the next year he's alreadywrestling. It looks like in the local
scene, like maybe Chicago, Yeah, priarily in Chicago. He kind of
you know, all over the Midwest, but Chicago was a huge market at
(08:28):
the time. There was wrestling thatwas taped at the Marigold Hotel in Chicago
that was on the Dumont television network, and that was a huge television program
at that time. Chicago wrestling wasone of the first television programs that was
almost national. You know, thatcomes more into the eighties. You know,
we think with Vins mcman in theWWE, but Chicago wrestling at the
(08:50):
Marigold Hotel was almost national in theDumont network in the fifties and sixty in
early sixties, and Bruiser was ahuge star as a hell wrestling for them,
wrestled and you know, you knowVern Gaya and Wilbur Snyder and different
guys like that. He was,like I said, he was the perfect
foil for those good guys. LikeI said, he's a roughneck so and
he had that luck in that voice. So. But yeah, he first
(09:11):
became a star there in Chicago,and the mid fifty started in fifty five.
It really in Chicago. I think. One of the cool things that
I read just a couple of yearsinto it, he is in tag team
matches at Madison Square Garden in NewYork City in front of you know,
over ten thousand fans. That's probablyquite the accomplishment back then he was.
But that didn't laugh. It didn'tlast very long because in fifty seven he
(09:37):
was teaming with doctor Jerry Graham againsta Toni Roca and Edward Carpi Carpeeria.
We have trouble with that name.They After the bell rang, the brawl
continued on right in professional wrestling style, and it led to a full scale
riot right there in the inn thegarden. There was you know where there
was police officers injured, fans injured. It was it was a huge melee
huge thing and it resulted and Bruiserhe was banned by the New York State
(10:01):
Athletic Commission from wrestling in New Yorkfor life after that. Like I said,
that was a fifty seven. Thatwas very early in his career,
but he kind of gained a namewith that Riot. Bruiser was very good
about doing stuff like that. Hewas a very good at the self promoting
and doing things kind of outside thering and outside the realm of the the
show to kind of draw some attention, some of it you know, legal,
(10:24):
some of it, uh whatever,but but drawing that attention on him.
But yeah, he was. Hewas a big star there in New
York for a while until that thatband came in. That barral and that
Riot also a legitimate tough guy,right, you know, there's there's lots
of stories about Bruiser and things likethat. Uh. You know, in
the early sixties in Detroit, hewas going to wrestle Alex Carriss, who's
(10:45):
an NFL player. A lot ofus most know Alex Carris as being the
dad and the TV show Webster fromthe eighties. Yeah, that was Alex
Carris. They were going to havea match and it was, you know,
a big deal, and as tokind of promote the match, they
had agreed Bruiser was going to goto Carriss's bar and they were going to
stage a brawl, you know,to kind of get some attention, some
you know, some hopefully some mediaattention. Well the thing is some of
(11:07):
Karis's family was there and it workedin the bar, and they no one
kind of smartened them up or cluethem in, and they got in bar
involved in the brawl. So Bruisierdidn't back down and he ended up fighting
back. The bar was almost asignificant damage of the bar, lots of
people injured, police officers injured.You hear wild tales about how many people
were injured in this brawl. ButBruiser was arrested and charged with assault,
(11:28):
mostly for because of the brawling withthe police officers, and you know,
and he had to end up payingI think fifty thousand dollars to help cover
the damages of the bar and someof the expenses for the police and stuff
like that. So he liked todo that kind of stuff to promote things
and get that media attention. Hewasn't afraid to take it too far,
and he was fully capable of backingit up. You know physically, that's
a lot of money back then,when you really think about it, that's
(11:50):
a heavy fine for his actions backthen, especially so obviously moved on to
other promotions, and this is whenkind of like the territories are really shape
it out and there are certain onesthat are bigger than others. Can you
speak on where he really that likewhat that next step for him was when
he got past this, like withthese incidents were talking about, Bruiser was
a little different, right. Hewas, like I said, he was
(12:11):
a roughneck. He looked like ayou know, this tough guy. But
he was born into a wealthy familyand it was was educated. He understood
things very well. So Bruiser veryquickly realized the big money was in the
promoting side, in owning your ownterritory, owning your own promotion. Bruiser
partnered up with wil Ward Snyder andthen began promoting out of Indianapolis as the
World Wrestling Association. Bruiser he hadaspects that people call kind of shady and
(12:35):
things because the actual company was actuallyin Snyder and Will and Bruiser's wives names
so that they could continue to wrestlewithout being you know, the quote unquote
promoters or owners of the business.Lots of people say that he bought the
Indianapolis territory. That's that's really notnot not true. He actually there was
Actually I've kind of researched and donesome things, and there are newspaper ads
(12:56):
where he actually ran opposition to JimBart who was the promoter Indianpolis at that
time. A lot of people thinkhe bought the promotion from Jim Barnette,
but he started running prior to Barnetteleaving Indianapolis in opposition to pretty much ran
him out of business and ran himout of Indiana. I don't think Bruiser
was the type that was going tobuy into anything. If he wanted something,
he was just going to go inand take it. I mean,
(13:16):
years later he tried to do thatwith the Detroit promotion, which was ran
by the Sheik. He tried tomove in and run at the Olympian Detroit
and just he ran an opposition andtried to just take Detroit from the Chik.
And it was several years this bigbattle and big war that kind of
resulted in neither one of them reallyprevailed and Bruiser eventually just backed off.
But to make a long story short, though, Bruiser realized the money was
(13:37):
in promoting, so his kind ofhis next step after after that was running
his own promotion, which he ranfor over twenty years in Indiana, and
they did just going back to likesome of the other territories. He did
connect with verting Gania again correct usingthat resource and wasn't The AWA was pretty
involved with What's WWA. Yeah yeah, Him and Verne always had a good
(14:00):
relationship and even when he started runningthe WWA were kind of him. Verne
and Wilbert Snyder partners in Chicago.They ran Chicago as together, so the
Chicago shows were kind of a mixof WWA talent in AWA talent. There
were kind of these big, kindof megash type shows. But because they
had this kind of agreement in thispartnership, it enabled Bruiser. He continued
to work in the AWA for Ganya. He did continue to work in Saint
(14:24):
Louis and wrestled there a lot.He was a big star in Saint Louis,
you know, and he would makeappearances and shots and other places.
I mean he you know, hewent down I mean, he appeared pretty
much everywhere, you know, atsome point or another, but never anything
long term except for you know,the kind of the partnership with him and
Verne in Chicago and him in periodand ative. He was a big star
in the AWA. He's particularly withthe Crusher as a tag team. Now,
(14:45):
that's not uncommon then too. Let'sjust say somebody was a heel.
Back then, it's not uncommon tomove around quite a bit because you were
doing these shows in front of thesame crowds all the time, right,
So you couldn't just be like now, obviously it's it's different, but back
then you're literal go into live eventthe same people typically, so you really
had to shake things up. Yeah, most territories had had weekly schedules and
(15:09):
they would run towns monthly or weeklywhere they would every you know whatever,
every Monday, you like, saylike Memphis, every Monday, you'd be
in Memphis, you know, andthen you would run Evansville or whatever the
towns would be. So you wereat these towns every week. Often guys
would be there, you know whateversix to ten months something like that,
or a year, and then theywould go off to another territory. For
a while and then often they wouldcome back. But there was the whole
(15:30):
adage of you know, if yougo away, the fans would miss you
and then want you to come back. And if you stay over states you're
welcome. You you'd kind of youknow, wear out and run out of
ideals, particularly if you're heels,because you know, good typically prevails over
evil, so the good guys wouldhave to go away for a while,
and then you know, the newbad guy would come in to face the
local heroes. Yeah. Absolutely.What are some other career highlights as far
(15:52):
as accomplishments that really stand out toyou? For Dick Throuser, Well,
I mean, like I said,he was a big star in the AWA
with Krusher. They held the tagtitles five times. There wrestled virtually everybody
including I mean there's a I meanup into the early eighties. I mean
where they wrestled the road Warriors andsome you know, some guys like that
early in their careers, you know, like I said in the WWA his
(16:14):
promotion, he held the title likethirteen times, the tag titles I think
fifteen times, which you know somepeople laugh at because you know, he
owned the promotion but I always comewith the defense that you know, if
he held the title thirteen times,you know he was losing it too.
And I think Bruiser really understood theart of the chase, so he would
be the champion, right he was. Bruiser was the hero, right he
(16:34):
was the big star. But heunderstood that if he'd bring in the top
bad guy lose the title to him, the money was in that chase for
him to try to get it back, so then he would regain it rants
and repeat with the next bad guy. I would think, I mean,
honestly, as far as his impacton wrestling, I mean, Bruiser's biggest
accomplishment, it is probably the factthat he gave the career start to Bobby
(16:55):
Heenan who pretty much everybody that's evena peripheral wrestling fan knows. Bobby was,
you know, just an Indianapolis kidthat loved wrestling. As started with
Bruiser's promotion, carrying coats to thelocker room when the wrestlers would come out,
just doing odd jobs for Bruiser,and then just one day out of
the blue, Bruiser calls him andsays, you know, we had Bobby
show up for interviews. Well,actually Bobby's name is Raymond. As a
(17:17):
Raymond show up. You know you'regonna start managing and we're gonna call you
Bobby, you know. Heenan sayshe had never understood why he changed his
name to Bobby when his name isRaymond. Most people suspect there was a
very prolific manager back in the daycalled Bobby Davis. He was the blueprint
for the modern the eighties wrestling manager. He was doing a lot of that
in the but before that time,a lot of people just suspect that,
(17:37):
you know, maybe that name wason bruisos Brus Bruiser didn't overthink too much
when things like that. It wasjust kind of a fly off the cuff.
But like I said, he got, you know, Bobby Heenan start.
He started, you know Jimmy andJohnny Valiant, the Valiant brothers who
became big stars in the WWF laterin the seventies. He first formed the
tech team known as the Black Jacks, who were big stars in the WWF
(18:00):
in the seventies. Late in hiscareer when he was he wasn't quite as
deeply involved, but his promotion actuallygave the start to Scott Steiner. That
was his first promotion where he trainedin first appeared under his real name of
Scott reck Steiner. So I thinkthose kinds of things are probably his biggest
impact. I mean, he wasa huge draw, a huge star.
Bruiser gets the rap a lot oftimes of not nurturing young talent because a
(18:23):
lot of the wrestlers he used upunder the eighties were fairly old, but
there were there were spots where hedid he gave opportunities to guys and that
became big stars in the business.He worked with quite a bit of people
that we really know about, andwhen you talk about the WWWF WWF,
they kind of set the narrative onwrestling history, right. I mean,
(18:44):
there's no doubt about that. Buteven names like Bruno, He's wrestled Bruno,
s Martini, he Luthez, likeDick the Bruiser has wrestled all these
big time Let's just say these namesthat are bigger than him now, because
that's, like I said, that'swhat they're going to talk about their people.
But he wrestled like Dicktor Bruiser waswrestling everybody that was an absolute huge,
major star back then. Because hewas himself. He was Yeah.
(19:07):
Him and Bruno were very good friends. During one of the periods where Bruno
was kind of on the outs withthe WWF, Bruno actually wrestled for a
few months in Indianapolis and actually himand Bruiser held the tag titles. They're
in Indianapolis together, and that wasjust pure I mean, Bruno didn't do
that. I mean he didn't reallywrestle for a lot of other people.
But because him and you know,Bruiser were, they were close and he
(19:29):
had a lot of respect for Bruiser. He came and did shots in Indianapolis.
Lots of guys did Andrea the Giantyou know, wrestled Indianapolis. Harley
Race wrestled in Indianapolis. Bruisers oftencredited with given Andre the Giant his name,
because when Andrea was going to comein and do a show, he
was still wrestling under his real name. I think was Andre for forree Year
or something. It's a French typename. Bruiser didn't think that sounded impactful
(19:51):
enough, so he said, we'regonna call him Andre the Giant because he's
such a big guy. I don'tknow whether that's documented as proof or not,
but that's the you know wrestling.He's got a lot of tall tales.
But yeah, yeah, for sure. Like I said, Bruiser wrestled
everywhere. Got to know these guysand you know, they had a lot
of respect for him. They oftencame in and helped him out and worked
for him when during downtimes in theircareers. So anybody, it's anybody during
(20:15):
this period, he's wrestled somewhere inthis country, somewhere in the world.
I mean, he was big.Him to Crush were huge in Japan.
They're big stars in Japan too,so even even you know, carries over
to the some of the Japanese legends. Bruisers wrestled all them as well.
What did the promotion that he ranfall victim too? Because I know he
ended up in WCW as an agentin the early nineties or but like there
(20:37):
had to be did it just fallvictim to like while these other territories did
or what was the story with that? Yeah, when they got into the
eighties, Bruiser he kind of backedoff a little. What Bruiser's wife was
did not like professional wrestling so much, and you know he was getting up
there in years and he wanted totake a step back, so he kind
of he sold the promotion off toJerry Jaffe, who was wrestled as Doctor
(20:59):
Jerry Graham Junior, and a coupleof other investors, and the promotion kind
of moved its base to Toledo,Ohio. Bruiser kind of stayed involved,
he did commentary for them and everythingelse, but he really wasn't the primary
owner and booker anymore. They werestill doing okay, it was just the
changing of the scene. Yeah,it wasn't really, you know, everybody.
(21:21):
Everybody says, you know, Vincemcmanon, Vince McMahon vinscman And there's
a lot to that because you know, Vince came in and signed away everybody's
top stars, you know, camein and bought TV time in the nation,
and and you know, he didput a lot of guys quote unquote
out of business. I think therewas the bigger picture of overall wrestling was
just moving national. You know,so it is cable, right, I
(21:41):
mean it was just that time,yeah, yeah, and everything was moving
to a bigger scale, and itjust regional promotions just weren't. They weren't
the thing anymore, right, Alot of them. Some of them hung
around on local TV for a bit, but they you know, they weren't
drawing in the thousands like they werein the seventies. It's just everybody wanted
the shiny, slick professional wrestling theysaw on cable TV. You know,
I think entertainment as a whole changethat way, and then wrestling it was
(22:03):
just part of it. Being innovative. Being ahead of it then is what
really laid the foundation for everything today. A lot of those promoters at that
time, they just they didn't forwardthink like that. They didn't they didn't
see that. They thought this hasalways worked, it will always work.
It didn't work that way. Itjust you know, they didn't evolve,
and you know, they kind ofaged out a little bit. You know.
(22:23):
It's it got it went passed them, and that's just the way it
is. Well, when I finishedup what I was said, he was
in a WCW. I believe wasan agent. Oh yes, and he
don't I don't know like what matcheshe was a part of or what impact
he had there, but he was. His death came not long after that,
so it seems like he was workingin the industry up until he died
(22:45):
in some fashion or form. Idon't think he worked a whole lot with
WCW. It was just sporadic hereand there. He did referee the main
event at Starcade nineteen ninety, whichI think was staying in the Black Scorpion
in a cage match. He refereedthat. That was kind of his last
big public appearance. But yeah,he died ninety one. Him and his
wife were living primarily in Florida atthat time. The word is he was
(23:07):
actually making appearances on little shows inthat area just weeks before and everything else.
But his wife said, and andofficial said, he was lifting weights
in his garage. He had youknow, weight setups, busted a blood
vessel and had internal bleeding. That'swhat That's what caught him. So even
up to that point at you know, it's type of that he was.
He was lifting weights and being Bruiserand everything else. So I don't I
(23:27):
don't think Bruiser, no matter howlong he lived, would have ever fully
stepped away. I think if hewould have made appearances or done something,
I think he just loved it.It was in his blood. I think
he would have stuck with it inone way or another however, could have
been he did, you know,make the w TWB Hall of Fame years
later? I mean it was muchpast his death. Was it twenty twenty
one or twenty twenty l it's thisrecent, yeah, twenty twenty one.
(23:48):
Yeah, it was just a coupleof years ago, and it was just
in one of those well I'm notsure what they call him. I can't
remember what they call him. There'sa just a video package that's like yeah,
and it's it's kind of weird becausehe's you know, he was such
a big star for them in thein the sixties and everything in fifties,
the company, but you know,his family doesn't stay involved. There was
(24:08):
you know, there was nothing,no one. No one is out there
hyping the the the image and thethe memory and the estate of Adict the
bruiser like a lot of these guysdo. That might be part of it,
yeah, the yeah, well,it's just it just survives in stories,
right like like like the ones we'rediscussing right now. Yeah, so
underwhelming for sure, just like noone there on his behalf speaking the I
(24:32):
mean, it's a good to beinducted in that Hall of Fame. There's
no doubt. I don't care whatanybody says, I mean, but it
was an underwhelming for sure. SoI think my question for you, Davis,
fore we put a book in onthis at the end of the day,
what would you say his importance wasto the industry? And then let's
tie it back to Indiana because I'mnot familiar with any and you can correct
me. I'm sure any other wrestlersfrom Indiana notably like he was. I
(24:56):
mean, that's that was like,that's what he's known for. That's what
people speak about today on him whenthey're talking about the territories and everything.
I mean he was, yeah,and is the wrestler from Indiana. Yeah,
I think. I mean, Ithink if you look at Dick the
bruiser of all he was, Ithink he was innovative as a wrestler because
I think you can see traces ofwhat he did as this rough, tough,
(25:18):
uh you know, beer drinking,foul mouth kind of guy into guys
today, like you know, thebrock Lessners and guys like that. I
think you could see that lineage tothat, and he was kind of one
of the first did that in abig sale. He was a huge drawl
and a huge attraction in the fiftiesand sixties and seventies as a wrestler and
a promoter. I mean, andof course his roots were always in the
(25:41):
Midwest, particularly in indian especially whenhe got into promoting, and he was
a huge, a huge component inthe state. I mean, he contributed
to a lot of charities, dida lot of work and whatever else his
his his feet. You know.He lived in Indianapolis until he quote unquote
retired and moved to Florida, sohe kept his roots here. I mean.
David Letterman was a huge fan ofDick the Bruiser and named his band
(26:03):
on his show the World's Most DangerousBand, in an homage to Dick the
Bruiser, whose nickname was the World'smost Dangerous Wrestler. He had Bruiser on
his show. He was one ofthose guys that even when he stepped away
from the national spotlight, he wasstill a huge draw in Indiana, huge
attraction India. Everybody in Indiana atthat time had a Dick the Bruiser story,
whether it was seeing him on TVor seeing him at a show,
(26:23):
or I mean, my dad wasa police officer in Columbus, Indiana.
His entire career, and he hasa story of after a show one night,
pulling Dick the Bruiser over for speedingthrough town. Bruiser pretty much sweet
talked to him by showing him thechampionship belts and all this and that and
chatting with him and got all thespeeding ticket by doing that. So,
I mean, everybody at that timefrom the seventies and eighties had one of
(26:45):
those those Bruiser stories. He's alegendary figure in Indiana entertainment history. This
conversation has been awesome and I wasso excited to talk about it. You
don't always associate people on a widescale wrestling professional wrestling with indie ya,
so it's actually really cool to havethis conversation. But Dave, I want
to give a minute to talk aboutwhat you're doing and if people want to
(27:07):
hear more stories like this, youobviously have a really good platform for that,
So I want to give you aminute to talk about that. I
mean, like you said, Ihave a podcast. It's called Wrestling Nostalgia.
I've done it for several years andit kind of is all over the
place with wrestling. I talked tolots of young wrestlers and different wrestlers,
but the center of it has alwaysbeen Midwest professional wrestling. And I get
a lot of historical figures and guyslike that on there, and we talk
a lot about Midwest wrestling history.It's it's typically a history and there's lots
(27:32):
of Bruiser stories, lots of WWAstories on there, and you can find
that on any podcast platform. It'sout there everywhere. And like I said,
we're getting ready to release our twohundredth episode in the next few weeks.
Yeah, it's like I said,there's a huge back catalog there to
listen to if anybody wants to diveinto more. I'm pretty active on social
media. You can find me onTwitter at the Dave Dynasty. That's kind
of the hub to find everything Ido. Indianapolis wrestling in the WDBAS is
(27:56):
really overlooked in the grand scheme andthe history. When people talk major promotions,
you know, people talk Memphis,they talk mid South, they talk
mid Atlantic, they talk all theseother things. And in the seventies,
the WWA and Dick the Bruiser wasone of the biggest draws in professional wrestling,
and in many circles they were consideredin the top three drawing territories in
(28:17):
the country promotions in the country,and this is when the WWWWF was still
kind of a regional territory. Soit's it's but it's often overlooked, and
I think a lot of that hasto do with there's there's not enough people
out there kind of champion the legacyof the WWA and Dick the Bruiser,
and we're trying to keep the storiesalive with doing things like this, So
Dave, I appreciate you taking thetime to do this, and everybody make
sure you check out the awesome stuffthat he's doing. Yep, thank you,
(28:41):
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Indiana Stories. If you like
what you heard, you can goto Indiana Stories dot com for more episodes
and other stories relating to Indiana.Also, if you're enjoying this podcast,
there's several things you can follow,the podcast itself, the newsletter, and
various other things. Thanks again forlisten, and we will be back with
another episode and I hope you joinus for another Indiana Story anywa. And
(29:30):
the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you
gonna come back? Will you beback? Are you coming back
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