November 13, 2023 • 44 mins
On this episode of America Stories, Jeff, Luke, and Jack discuss what goes into creating a document like the Declaration of Independence. The people appointed to crafting something so significant, the writing and re-writing, the opinions of the people involved and the risks of signing a peice of paper. We discuss the reasoning behind the Declaration and what it would mean to the colonies of America at the time.
The colonies argue over what should be done, pivotal votes decided by overnight travel, and politcal deals. Putting pen to paper and shaping the history of America this was the Declaration of Independence.
The colonies argue over what should be done, pivotal votes decided by overnight travel, and politcal deals. Putting pen to paper and shaping the history of America this was the Declaration of Independence.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
What you gonna do, brother,when Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you
America Stories. Alright, alright,alright, you history buffs you America History
(00:30):
fans. Welcome to another episode ofAmerica Stories. Of course, this is
Jeff Townsend. Luke and Jack arejoining me for another story today. We
are like twelve episodes in guys,this is the twelfth episode, I believe.
Yeah, it's wild. We've beenplugging in some Indiana Delfi stuff too,
But nevertheless, this season we're callingit season two because the first season
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was Indiana Stories. We're twelve episodesand my gosh, well we're a very
interesting point in the timeline. Nowit's the time that everyone's been waiting for
as the Declaration of Independence is comingup. Yeah, we've covered clear up
from where did we actually start at? So I know the first episode was
(01:15):
the history of the fourth of July. But what was the first thing we
really picked up on on trying toremember as far as the ticonder roga or
four before that was we actually dida video episode on Boston tea party and
everything leading up to that. Ohyes, that's right, the lock.
The lock. How kind of freakit out if you have not listened to
(01:38):
the previous episodes. My point isyou should go back and do that.
This is America Stories a fun quicktake on American history. Go back to
the Boston Tea Party episode and youcan hear these mavericks defend the absolute rogue
actions of the Americans and they justifiedit all because one single lock was repaired.
Millions of dollars, a team waspoorn out, But none of that
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matter because they fix a five dollarslock they did. They go back and
watch it and go back and fixthe loss. That's all that matters.
So you mess something up, youjust got to fix one little thing involved
with it. Getting into what we'retalking about today that Luke touched up on
a little bit, we're starting todive into some of the surroundings and prerequisites
(02:25):
of the Decoration of Independence. Yousaid, yeah, uh so, we
did touch on a few of thesethings back when we did do the history
at for July, but we kindof just like glazed over. It was
just like the top layer and mostpeople do we glaze like Dunk and Donuts
glaze that. Yeah, those ofyou listening, by the way, this
(02:47):
Sprite Lemon legacy is delicious. Itlooks delicious. I'm not gonna lie.
I only got this not a sponsoryet. We're a couple of one hundred
thousand million, uh listens away fromthat, but we're keeping it on a
radar. Sorry, look good.Oh yeah, we're getting there. So
yeah. To start off, weshould talk about some of the people that
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almost never get brought up when theytalk about the decoration of Independence. And
the first person to actually put somethingforward in the Congress was a man named
Richard Henry Lee. And in histhree first names, he does not something
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that I thought was a little clunkyto say, because it's like bam,
bam, bam his first names.He was a member of the second Continental
Congress. He was from Virginia,and he was ep Ford. A resolution
titled the Lee Resolution because it wasnot particularly you know, thought out what
(03:55):
to call it, but this waswhat would eventually become the Declaration of Independence.
He put forth the Lee Resolution inJune of seventeen seventy six, I
think it was June seventh actually,So he wanted to break free of Britain
first. He was the first oneto say, you know, let's just
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do it. But this was alsosomething that he has been doing this entire
time. He was one of thefirst to create called a Committee of Correspondence.
This was something that him, SamuelAdams and a few others came up
with during the Stamp Act years andstuff like that, where you would kind
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of set up people that you knewwho were not pro British and you would
keep in touch and pass information fromone side of the country to the other
correspond with them. Yeah, ofcourse, it was kind of like a
secret organization and they were like theearly form of spy work being done before
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the war started. They would eventry to get some of their people closer
to the higher British officials so thatthey could slowly ship away at their ability
to do things by putting stumbling blocksin front of them. And so yeah,
he was one of the first onesto join those committees and create the
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Virginia one. So because of thathe was an instrumental person in the early
days of the war. And sowhen he was there during the Continental Congress,
he was like, I want tocome up with a way of breaking
free. He said that you know, the colonies are in a right ought
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to be free and independent states,and they should be assolved of all allegiance
to the British crown. Was abold statement. No one in Congress was,
you know, thought it was goingto happen just so soon. In
fact, New York was definitely tryingto put force resolutions to bend the relationship
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with Britain, so they were notprepared for this. The rest of Congress
decided to vote and put it towardscommittee to explore further and also to write
a declaration for you what to vote. They called them the Exploration Committee,
Am I correct? No, Soit was actually called the Committee of five
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because there are five guys. That'show they came up with the restaurant name,
right, I'm pretty sure, yeah, yeah, it's like five guys.
Actually, I'm kind of interested inthis this thought process right now.
I mean, there's been a lotof fighting going on up to this point,
and you know, what other possibleresolution was there going to be?
You know, I mean obviously theycould surrender, but it seemed like that
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was not something they wanted to do. Kind of pass the point of that,
yeah, yeah, and so I'mjust kind of curious what they thought
of beyond you know, leaving,you know, kind of forming your own
country at that point where they wantingto find some kind of other form of
peace that was not going to havesurrendering. I'm just really kind of curious
what their thought process there was.And the other thing I wanted to point
out was that, you know,this the Lee the Lee Resolution that was
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written up in June seventh, seventeenseventy six, So that's like a less
than a month before you know,like the next set of events. So
I'd just say this, they're obviouslyan active moved really quickly. So the
Committee of Five was given three weeksto debate and figure out what was the
best course of action and whether ornot there would be a declaration put forward.
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They were, They were given amandate to move quickly by the Congress
so that they could vote before Congresslet out in the late summer. Where
the Committee of Five was composed ofJohn Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,
Roger Sherman, and Robert Livingston.Now those first three everyone knows those
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names. John Siams of course beingthe second president, being the third,
Benjam Franklin being like the all aroundintellectual of the founding fathers. Roger Sherman
is actually a very interesting person,though he didn't really do a whole lot
beyond the community, but he wasvery vocal about getting this pushed through.
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When he was he was one ofthe ones that was like, all right,
we need to definitely do this.He was constantly pushing the others to
go for and he also wanted toabolish slavery declarate independence, which the Carolina's
ordinarily about. Then that's actually whySouth Carolina did not want to put on
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this at all, because they wereworried that Sherman was going to put stuff
in there. Along with Jefferson,was also slightly leaning towards abolishing and slavery
as well, despite the fact thathe owned a lot of slaves. So
it's just like today, they tryto pack more into these things than just
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the main text. Yeah, itwas definitely the love. Everyone had their
own ideas of what needs to goon this. These were the guys that
were the best suited to come upwith us. Dude. John Adams was
a renowned lawyer, had been sincethe days of the Boston Tea Party and
everything else. Ben Franklin. Noone doubted his intelligence, and Thomas Jefferson
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being one of the greatest writers atthe time, was in charge of pinning
the thing. One of the thingsthat they did early on was Thomas Jefferson
wrote that they should stand for thepreservation of life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. Benjamin Franklin felt thatthat was too wordy, and he just
said that it was just put justput life liberty into pursuit of happiness,
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stuff with like preservation of and itwas just like small things. He kept
like need laying him on. Thatreally aggravated Thomas Jefferson during the writing of
this is kind of funny. He'sjust trying to get him into more of
a common folk mindset. Yeah,he was. And that was bender Franklin's
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like strong wise, he knew howto speak to like just the average person
as well as people who are ofa higher standing. He was like the
Bill Clinton of his time. Yeah, you know, that's actually not far
off in a lot of ways,if you know a lot there was a
little bit. So if he wasa Bill Clinton of his time, And
would we say that George Washington wasmel Gid Washington. Yeah, yeah,
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I think we did say that melGibson of his time, So so Benjamin
Franklin. That was like mel Gibsonin that What Women Want or whatever that
movie is where yeah, read bypeople's minds, and we've actually got two
mel Gibson's essentially, and this,uh, this is crazy we did Actually
it's actually kind of we're talking aboutThomas Jefferson. Now he was writing it
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getting a little bit he was gettingnitpicked by Benjamin Franklin. Sorry I got
this off topic. Yeah, noilGibson. Sherman was the one that was
really pushing to have the anti slaverystuff put in there. Oh but another
thing I was going to say aboutRoger Sherman is he's the only person of
all the Founding fathers to sign allfour of the founding documentations. He signed.
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He signed the Continental Association, whichwas the formation of like the Congress,
He signed the Declaration, and hesigned the Articles of Confederation later and
then finally he signed the Constitution.Wow, So why is he not?
Why is he not as big ofa deal? Then? Just that was
about all he ever did was interms of like big things, was being
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part of that committee and then beinga part of the biggest thing until later
did yeah, well assure me,but he never He never went further in
political office after this. He endsup becoming mayor of in Connecticut, and
then that's about it. He's awell respected guy, though, I assume
right if yes, he was four. Yeah, he was very well respected.
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He was very well meaning, andhe kept he was a Puritan and
so he had, you know,religious views that kept him like he had
a high standing society. But hejust unlike Franklin. Yeah, yeah,
he just did want to pursue anymajor office afterwards. He probably very well
could have become president at one point, but he just never did. He
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was It was really one of thoseguys where if you're making a committee with
five people, you make him oneof the five. Yeah, I said
something about somebody. I guess heactually died in seventeen ninety three, which
I'm credittly wrong. I think thatmight be shortly after Washington's first term in
office. So that was a problem. You know, he was an older
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man already, and so he justreally wouldn't have made it that much further
anyway, And that's kind of thereason why he drops off and his defense,
they all looked really old, hedid, they did. The other
guy in the Committiat five Robert Livingston. He was a like a judge and
stuff like that. He was afterhe signed, you know, worked in
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the committee at five. He endedup becoming the Chancellor of New York,
which is their highest judge. Andhe kept that for so long that he
was chancellor for twenty four years.They just called him Chancellor for restless life.
That was his name, basically Chancellorinstant he was. He ended up
becoming US Minister to France later onin life. The Chancellor, yeah,
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the Chancellor, And but he waskind of, you know, just a
lawyer more so than he was,probably even more a lawyer than John Adams.
He was just like everything was likehow strict the laws needed to be,
and like how perfectly worded the legalwriting of the declaration had to be.
You have to have people like himaround right when you're doing something like
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that, absolutely, absolutely, becauseyou know, if you say something slightly
wrong, you could end up ina lot more trouble than you will be.
Now, technically this declaration was basicallythey were going to end up saying
their own death warrants if they ifthey lost, but still even if they
won, you still want things tobe set in Stone in a certain way.
So yeah, Robert Livitstain was definitelyintegral to making that all kosher.
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You know, it was all perfectlyworded because of these men. They all
had their things they brought to thetable. Like I said, there was
a lot of contention on that firstdraft where they had to really reword it.
One of the first things was ThomasJefferson did, like I said,
wrote a lot about how against slavery. Ben Franklin, y'all had to remove
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it because they're like, we gotto have everyone involved this. So after
a lot of arguing back and forth, they finally came up with a declaration
that they felt would appease the mostamount of people, and they needed it
to be voted on, and theyalso needed it to pass without any opposition.
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And that was going to be aproblem because South Carolina still was iffy
on the whole situation. They didn'twant to vote for this declaration. They
were going to vote against it.Pennsylvania was going to vote against it because
Pennsylvania was ran by the Quakers andthey detested violence of any type. They
wanted to just get a peace treatysigned as fast as possible. They didn't
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want any more war, and thiswould inevitably lead to more war. The
other problem was Delaware. Delaware shouldhave been a slam dung, but one
of the delegates from Delaware did notwant to vote for it. He wanted
to vote against it, and theother one was voting for it. Now,
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there was a third delegate who wasnot there. His name was Caesar
Rodney. He was in Dover atthe time in Delaware, and he had
no idea that the other guy wasn'tgoing to vote for He assumed that those
two are both going to vote forit, and that he wouldn't need to
be there. And so all thisis going on, John Adams and Ben
Franklin are trying to make this passwith a flying color. So what they
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did was they spoke to South Carolinarepresentatives and they said if no one else
voted against it, they would votefor So they had to convince the Pennsylvania
delegation to simply abstain. They saidthat you know, you won't be betraying
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your faith by abstaining. They alsoNew York was also abstaining, but they
let everyone know immediately that they wereabstaining because the New York delegation was trying
to get peace, but they weren'tnecessarily against the declaration. A lot of
abstinence here, Yeah, so basicallythey had to get They finally did commence
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Pennsylvania to abstain, but they neededDelaware. Caesar Rodney found out about this
and he rode throughout the night onJuly first, seventy miles in a thunderstorm
to get there. The next day, he walked in completely soaking wet and
his riding boots and everything, andhe cast his vote for the declaration,
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so that on July second it wasable to pass. Now, it was
not signed on July second, andactually it wasn't even signed until August second,
but July second it finally passed thanksto Caesar Rodney breaking that tie.
Probably a lot of people still thatjust like didn't want to be involved with
it. Yeah, like why wouldI get involved with something like that.
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They had to really be salesmen,I guess, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, because like this was,like I said, they said it was
their death or they were going tobe executed. Once they signed this,
there was no denying it was theirsignature. So they had to really sell
the people like we're gonna pull through, you know, we have to do
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this. I actually wonder if itwas well, they obviously got the soldiers
right to, you know, likethe everyday people to kind of like agree.
I wonder what the I was curiousabout, Like specific citizens you know,
obviously would have had to say indeciding who was going to be debating
this. Were they like hopefully theysign it, you know, or hopefully
they didn't sign it. Well,I mean, what happened if they didn't
sign it? Right exactly? Itwas that Actually on July second, when
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they passed this, New York wasn'taware of this, but the British troops
landed on a state not prepared toattack New York and Washington's forces, which
had made their way north at thispoint. This eventually led to them change
in their vote. Congress finally declaredon July fourth that they needed to print
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the final draft and distribute it toall the colonial assemblies and divisions of the
army. It was still unsigned atthis moment, but they needed They believe
that people would need to see this, and they wanted it to be distributed
to different towns so that people couldread it. The only person who had
actually signed it at this point wasJohn Hancock. He was signing on behalf
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of all of Congress, but theentire signing, like I say, wouldn't
take place until August second, whichis a whole bunch more to go there
on that. But I wanted topoint out that a few other things that
are kind of interesting. When theyprinted this, there are two hundred copies
from this one printer named John Dunlap, and he distributed them. Twenty five
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of those still exist today, probablyworth a little bit of money. Yeah,
I'm sure John Dunlap, he said, yeah, John Dunlap. John
does a printer and in the airMaster printer. It was stupid, and
I mentioned this in the history forJuly. But because the the vote was
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done on July second, John Adamswrote a letter to his wife saying that
July second would be celebrated for therest of the country's history going forward.
So those of you that are listeningto you, probably it'll probably get edited
out. But Jack's doing some researchin the background right now. I think
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he also has a he has amic for his for himself his mouth,
but then he has another mic actuallyfor his keyboard. It's uh he's very
smiling, very mischievously. Right now, there's something going on right now.
Yes, I was the master isa handsome man. Master, he's a
master printer John Dunlap, Yeah,he is a He is a master pressure
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actually in some of the prints goodquality. So let's not pass over what
you just said that. There's acouple of different things that I was thinking
of. So I don't know ifyou'd heard me or not, but I
asked, were the British aware ofwhat was going on? Was my first
question? Then the second part Iwas going to mention is how you just
dropped the bomb on the July secondthing? Well, so the my my
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headset cut out when you were askingthat first question. Actually, but was
you saying we British? Were theyaware of what was going on? Like?
Yeah, the work? Were theyaware of something was in the works
here? Because you talked about theyou talked about the spy work. You
know, I assume it was goingon both ways. Yes, it was
so how uh in when when hehad William how when he took attack New
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York? He they did know forwhat I gathered, they knew that they
were voting on this and information wasbeing sent back to England about it.
But yes, like the field commanders, they knew almost immediately that this was
being voted on, and so theythey wanted to strike fear and everyone's hard
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to this point. It's why theylaunched that attack in New York and were
prepared to try to wipe out Washington'smen, which that that fighting will continue
for the foreseeable future up there.So yeah, the ones that that were
near didn't know, and shortly itwould make its way to England, where
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it would cause quite an uproar.In fact, that's actually something I'm definitely
want to go over on the nextepisode for sure, is how the average
person felt about this everywhere, ifthey uh, if they knew, if
the field commanders knew, and theywere already landing in New York and it's
only been like like I said,less less than a month at this point
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since the like first like drafting rightthe lead resolution, you would think that
that must mean that someone told almostimmediately in orders of that information to go
back and then travel to the tothe soldiers the joking matters. Yeah,
well they were loyalists, uh.In Congress, like I said, the
one Delaware represented there was Stonewall inDelaware. Uh, he was a loyalist.
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He wanted to join with the British, but he was part of the
delegation and so yeah, these peoplewere feeding information back as it was happening.
So yeah, that was definitely anissue. Oh and you brought up
the July second thing real quick though. When we say landing, is that
to call when a boat arrives landing? Yeah? I think never never used
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a turn all through the boat,but just terrify because there are boats that
were landing. Yeah, yeah,I guess you know, I've taken terms
from World War Two now, Ithink, which would be like I just
never used that with a boat.Yeah, I don't really know that there
on the pier. I'm not entirelysure now that I've questioned any evidence.
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I mean, they're landing. Iguess they're going to land there. Yeah
all right, well well yeah,the game play is falling onto the land.
Yeah yeah. But yeah, soJuly second was supposed to be the
official holiday. July fourth just happenedto be when they started getting unprinted and
distributed, and that ended up becomingthe holiday there was celebrated because that's what
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everyone found out about it right,and that's when there were celebrations in the
streets and everything. He said,what was the quote again, this day
will be Oh you know what Imean. It's actually a pretty intricate quote,
because what this reminds me of isif you get like a tattoo that's
misspelled. Right. Yeah. Iactually have it written down here somewhere.
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He literally has a wrote down.Guys for listening, I'll uh, I'll
list some research good the keys hesaid, this day will be. Note,
I was trying to get the exactterminology of what he said. Well,
it's gone. What the heck andit's gone. I swear I typed
it up in money notes. Youjust read it. You just read it
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as if you were reading. Well, I raised it, but I was
gonna do the full Okay, butyeah, yeah, he said something like,
uh, something is super cool whatever. We will be celebrating with bonfires
across the nation or something like thatevery year on July second. I don't
know what happened. I swear Ityped it up in my notes, but
(25:37):
I don't see it. Well,he was a couple of days off in
the end. I guess he was, like I said, everyone assumes it
was all signed that day, butit wasn't and I think that was funny.
Yeah, only at this point onlyJohn Hancock has signed it, and
like the whole John Hancock thing outof this. Yeah, yeah, just
signed for everybody. So he signaturenow is a John Hancock. Yeah.
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I mean it's something that we usedto this day because he did that big.
He also because he was he knewthat the King of England had a
hard time seeing He wanted him tobe sure that he could recognize his signature.
And that's why John Hancock wrote hissignature so big. He actually drew
a picture of a hand that nevermind John Hancock. That's so what you're
(26:26):
saying is if you want an autographfrom let's say a sports star like Lebron
James, you should say, Lebron, can I have your John Hancock?
Yeah, I do have the Itwas written in a letter from John Adams
to Abigail Adams. The second dayof July seventeen seventy six will be the
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most memorable HIPOCA in the history ofAmerica. I am able to believe that
it will be celebrated by succeeding generationsas the Great Anniversary Festival it ought to
be commemorated as the day of deliveranceby solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.
You got to be solemnized with pompand parade, with shows, games,
sports, guns, spells, bonfiresand eliminations from one end of this
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continent to the other, from thistime forward forevermore. John Adams, I
really paraphrase the hell out, buthe did. But point being, it
was this huge I feel like Iguess he was just writing it too,
Abigail, But it feels like youwanted this lead for all to hear.
Yeah, see, this is goingto be the day. You had to
assume that if you're writing something inthat flowery that you were writing into a
(27:34):
large group of people, not justone. And it's likely that she would
have given that letter to like theirlocal ministers, who then distribute it further
as that was kind of the thingat the time. I feel like we're
missing a couple people that should havebeen founding fathers here. Wibble and well,
(27:57):
yeah, Weibble was so busy.Still he's he's still on the still
on his tirade because there's another updatefor him for a little while. But
he's he's out there he's out thereon the seat, Sherman. He signed
those one documents Beinger of Franklin.He was the only person to sign the
(28:19):
Declaration, the Treaty of Alliance withFrance, a treaty with parents and the
Constitution. That was well the membersof the Five obviously, and it's he
was definitely big about getting the Frenchinto the battle, and it was instrumental
and that happening. They were offthe very our success in the battle.
(28:41):
I'm sure when you get that morein detail one day, Oh yeah,
that's yeah, later on in thewar, but it's pretty much the only
race why we won. French navywas ready to fight and they were definitely
happy to stick it to British.So the Spanish Tavie helped in the war,
(29:02):
and that doesn't get brought up VerryAwson. Going forward to this next
month, there's gonna be a lotof reaction from systems in both the US
and England, which I would togo into considerably with the next episode obviously,
and then I also want to goover We're gonna go over to all
the other signing members, because thereare enough fifty six people who signed that
(29:26):
the declaration, and yeah, mostpeople can name like seven or eight.
Okay, I can't name seven.You put me on the spot, I
might struggle to get seven. Well, obviously there's the Committee of five.
Yeah. I was gonna say,well, is that Richard Lee. No,
isn't it right? Yeah? RichardHenerley. Oh yeah, I got
it, Richard. Then there's Sherman. Yeah, Roger Sherman. Roger Sherman.
(29:51):
That's it. Caesar rod Nate,Caesar Rodney. Let's talk about this
guy for a minute, because thatis just a name that it's worth mentioning.
I actually had to double check tomake sure his name was pronounced Caesar,
because you wouldn't think that was Idon't know, it just doesn't seem
like a name that would be usedin the US at that time or on
the column actually John. But yes, Caesar Rodney. And during the French
(30:15):
and Indian War, he was anofficer of the Delaware Militia, and then
he would become an officer in thehe said Robster Revolutionary War as well.
So he was he was more ofa fighter, and he did some political
stuff. He was a part ofthe Country Party, is what it was
(30:36):
called in Delaware. They were likeadvocates for you know, separations for the
British, but they were also forlike a less restrictions, more of a
country life. One would say.Yeah, the guy who was voting against
joining the or signed declaration. Hisname was George Reid, and he was
(30:59):
from the same county as Caesar,and he was a member of the opposition
party, which was the City Party, the Court Party. So he was
kind of always getting into arguments withGeorge Reid, even just back home,
and they didn't really care for eachother. In the Continental Congress, he
(31:21):
would lead Delaware Continentals, but theywould get beat pretty badly, particularly in
South Carolina later on. He wasnever like a grand leader. He was
just like an average leader. Thiswas his biggest moment actually, was this
ride at midnight. It's funny,it's another midnight ride. I'll just say
(31:45):
that. Yeah, sounds like astory I've heard of before. This one,
though, is definitely just one guy, Paul Revere. There were several
people riding by the end of itall, where's Paul Revere in all?
This? Seems like he really wouldwould really want his name out there.
So Paul Revere's kind of interesting.He's kind of just like fades into the
background a little bit. He's nota politician, he's not a soldier.
(32:07):
He just handled his committees of correspondenceand stuff like that. He maintains his
network of informants and just kind ofstands back unless everyone else do the dirty
work. My only note on CaesarRodney is that I like the name a
lot. Good name. I mean, I thought it was like, you
(32:29):
know, this just reminded me oflike I don't even know, watch like
a wrestler's name or something like that. I would a character, you know,
But it just amazes me that it'slike just everybody has two first names,
except for the Rogers. Guess justvery common. I guess to have
two first names, Patrick Henry,Patrick Henry Henry, Richard Henry Lee.
(32:54):
Richard Lee was best friends with PatrickHenry. Their cousins. I did.
I forgot to bring that up.Oh, another interesting thing. Roger Sherman
from the committee two first names.Yeah, yep. He's a distant relative
of General William to come Stay Shermanfrom Civil War. Wow, so this
(33:15):
is all in the family. I'mnot actually, I'm not surprised, I
say wow, yeah, because therewere like two million people or something like
that in the world. Yeah,and I think the patriotism would probably really
bleed through generation to generation and theanti slavery feelings because like you know,
to come to Sherman really wanted towreck the style and Roger Sherman wanted to
(33:37):
remove slavery from the country to start. Let me get on like a small
rabbit hole here. Do you thinkand this is just completely your opinion,
that if they would have tried toabolish slavery, then we would have had
a similar pushback that we saw laterthe Civil War. They kind of probably
(34:00):
would have like derailed this whole plan. Or do you think it would have
been more receptive then? Just justan opinion. I think I think it
would have been more receptive because theywould probably have realized they can't split right
now, like they have to notsplit in the middle of all this,
I see. I don't know,maybe afterwards they who knows, as it
(34:22):
could be there would have been pushedback like immediately afterwards, who knows it
could have been still like in thefighting mood. Yeah, that is a
really hard It just makes me wonder, you know. Yeah, Benjamin Franklin
definitely believe that they would not beable to do it if they try to
remove slavery, but others like JohnAdams and Sherman and the others, they
(34:45):
they kind of felt like they couldand it was just this pushback went forth.
Wherefore they were just like, youknow what, let's stop fighting each
other and let's just get this donenow. And it's really hard to say
if it was out because Virginia,South Carolina, North Carolina, they were
all instrumental in fighting the British andthey were heavily slave states or colonies,
(35:12):
and so it's hard, really hardto say if they would have so fallen
in line or not. My questionis, you know, if they hadn't
gotten all the signatures, and let'ssay they had like just most of the
signatures, well, well did theyhave like something in place where they'd be
like, well, we didn't getthem all, so we're just gonna stop.
Like yeah, that's yeah, goodquestion, Like, well, how
(35:34):
would that change anything? So theydidn't need everyone. They just wanted to
have an unopposed signing, gotcha moreof a political move. Yeah, they
originally were playing, well, wecould just do the vote. We got
enough colonies, we don't even needDelaware. So you know, but they
wanted to be a show of forceand show of unity against the British to
(36:00):
kind of make a statement. Soit was more, like you said,
as a political movie. It wasa It was all more of like this
is how it's our resolve. We'reall together on us. But they couldn't
get it without making some concessions hereand there, at least as far as
they believed. Whether or not theycould have hashed it out some more in
(36:22):
Congress and changed people's minds, thatis her debate. I would actually I
would actually wonder if potentially, especiallythe ones like say like Thomas Jefferson,
who was probably not concerned with gettingeveryone signed it was more concerned about getting
the the wording right in his mind. I don't know for sure, but
(36:46):
I'm almost wondering that to some degreeif he was like, well, yes,
we could change it to get everyoneto sign it, but is that
the goal? Because when you're justlike we were just sitting here talking about
it, I feel like it's thatsounds bad, but it's really hard to
really grasp the significance of it,and like why they thought it was so
(37:07):
significant exactly. So, I mean, I get retrospect here, how we
can really talk about the significance ofit, Like you just said, it's
really what the country was built on, you know, coming together, and
I guess the unique everybody's unique anddifferent coming together, I guess is what
I'm gonna say. But it's justweird to think about. Did they what
(37:27):
extent did they actually literally need togo to? Right? How you know
how to get into the mind ofthem at the time. And I know
next episode we're going to dive deeperinto things, but this is definitely something
that's on my mind right now.I would like to I would love to
know, like what is the fullthought process myself, Like do you really
(37:49):
need to send that big of amessage or with just simply signing this document
with most people be enough of amessage. I guess you don't know if
they're going to help you anyway though, Yeah, right, And so at
this point it's like they, Iguess, felt that it needed to have
more people, and without enough people, it would look like a fractured and
(38:13):
easily beaten army. And you haveto realize you have to inspire the regular
soldiers to fight against a massive armadaand army coming their way that you know,
no one had ever believed to bebeatable. So it's kind of like,
(38:37):
is it a political move or isit simply a fun story to tell
around campfire about how everyone came togetherto sign this and so now we're going
to fight for it. Yeah,that's actually really well said. I got
a lot of questions, but Ifeel like I definitely need to save them
before we bookend on the next one, for sure, anything else on this
(38:58):
top of guys, or what arewe thinking? Don't have anything else tonight
myself. So we're gonna draw aline in the sand right now and we're
gonna jump back in next week.It's what we're saying. Yeah, yeah,
we'll be jumping in basically on Julyfifth or sixth, and in how
everyone around the country is reacting tothis and what happens in New York and
then what will happen in Brittain whenthey learn of it. And then we're
(39:21):
also going to talk about some ofthe undercard you could call, of people
who signed the declaration who people don'ttalk about very often, And there's gonna
be and we won't we'll talk aboutit, I'm sure, But there's so
many people that just don't really know. I'm sure what's really going on.
There has to be people just intheir own world, just living their own
(39:42):
life, completely away from society,because that's how they that's why they came
here. A lot of them,they probably have no interest or maybe not
even any sort of sense maybe what'sgoing on? Yeah, exactly, there's
definitely a bunch, So don't Jack. It is time to do the thing,
and that thing is plugging. Howto talk to us, how to
(40:02):
find us, how to engage withus? Yeah, well, we're on
Twitter and you can contact us throughat We're at America story Pod on Twitter
and actually X now it's x nowthat is correct. I've updated that,
okay, So yeah, and youcan also email us if you have like
(40:23):
questions or you just want to talkor whatever. You know, you can
email us at America Stories Pod atgmail dot com and you can find us
on americastories dot us. Yeah,she can. That's a night neat little
website that Jack's gonna get around toone day. I so let me let
(40:44):
me ask you one thing. Canwe get out of here? Do you
think you had to like? Whoowned X dot com? And how much
money do you think they got fromthat. I really want to know.
You had to be like it hadto be a porn site, right,
I mean there's a good chance,but I mean whoever it was had to
make a little bit of money offthat. Yeah, I imaginally they got
a couple hundred thousand at least.What if they just wouldn't sell it to
(41:06):
them, like nope, not gonnahave that would have been hilarious. So
then it would like backfire the wholeplan changed the decks, right, Yeah,
a couple hundred thousand. I'm notsure like how it goes on like
early domain days, because I've onlybeen into domain biz fifteen years and really
it's probably a twenty five thirty yearthing and its most h starting point.
(41:30):
But man, you got to thinksome of those domains are worth a lot
of freaking money. Yeah yeah,yeah, even once you wouldn't think would
be worth very much money, butlike Google dot Com, Yeah, that
one would be worth a lot.Yeah, they make sure. I wonder,
like what they had to like thesepeople go in and buy things ahead
to be people like if you're justin this common folk listening, this has
(41:52):
nothing to do with the podcast thispoint in time, by the way if
it's not exactly easy to go findto domain. And when I say it's
not easy, I mean if youjust say, like, and I don't
know how we pull it off.If you just say, hey, I'm
gonna make a podcast called America Stories, You're not gonna get dot com nor
is it even active by the way, just some prick holding on to it,
(42:14):
right right exactly. You can't justgo get any domain you want,
is my point. So that's whenI don't know. We got lucky enough
to get the variation of it withthe dot us, which kind of works
out. But there's people that gotlike America Stories dot they got all that
crap block they're not even using it. So there's so many domains inactive that
(42:34):
are owned. I guess that's mypoint. I'm off my rim Yeah,
well it is. It is ridiculoussprite lemon legacy that is delicious. By
the way, it looks so looksso refreshing. I'm super refreshing. With
that being said, I think I'mgoing to segue us out of here.
We'll be back next week and wewill go into further details on the d
of I is it kind of calledit the decoration of indepenants a DFD D
(42:58):
of I reaction from people all aroundthe country and even the British encounterparts around
the world. Luke, that's whatis that, Sumer. What we're gonna
do next week pretty well yep,df I, yep, but that is
coming up with all sorts of Tshirt ideas. With that being said,
until next I say next week's actuallybi weekly. Until next episode, keep
(43:19):
being you and keep being great asI'm shaking the hell out of the sprite.
Got the kind of figs everybody knows. Brother around there, Flue,
it's going at you have and youlike you finding the road and you do
(43:40):
it as wrong people gotta thank allthe dangers, find it inside the The
best of us take care what theywant episode to them. Some of us
do you do the best weekend?Some of us do Jeff Townsend, media
(44:29):
saves you good night. And thequestion is do I stay here? Will
you be back? Are you goingto come back? Will you be back?
Are you coming back
What you gonna do, brother,when Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you
America Stories. Alright, alright,alright, you history buffs you America History
(00:30):
fans. Welcome to another episode ofAmerica Stories. Of course, this is
Jeff Townsend. Luke and Jack arejoining me for another story today. We
are like twelve episodes in guys,this is the twelfth episode, I believe.
Yeah, it's wild. We've beenplugging in some Indiana Delfi stuff too,
But nevertheless, this season we're callingit season two because the first season
(00:52):
was Indiana Stories. We're twelve episodesand my gosh, well we're a very
interesting point in the timeline. Nowit's the time that everyone's been waiting for
as the Declaration of Independence is comingup. Yeah, we've covered clear up
from where did we actually start at? So I know the first episode was
(01:15):
the history of the fourth of July. But what was the first thing we
really picked up on on trying toremember as far as the ticonder roga or
four before that was we actually dida video episode on Boston tea party and
everything leading up to that. Ohyes, that's right, the lock.
The lock. How kind of freakit out if you have not listened to
(01:38):
the previous episodes. My point isyou should go back and do that.
This is America Stories a fun quicktake on American history. Go back to
the Boston Tea Party episode and youcan hear these mavericks defend the absolute rogue
actions of the Americans and they justifiedit all because one single lock was repaired.
Millions of dollars, a team waspoorn out, But none of that
(01:59):
matter because they fix a five dollarslock they did. They go back and
watch it and go back and fixthe loss. That's all that matters.
So you mess something up, youjust got to fix one little thing involved
with it. Getting into what we'retalking about today that Luke touched up on
a little bit, we're starting todive into some of the surroundings and prerequisites
(02:25):
of the Decoration of Independence. Yousaid, yeah, uh so, we
did touch on a few of thesethings back when we did do the history
at for July, but we kindof just like glazed over. It was
just like the top layer and mostpeople do we glaze like Dunk and Donuts
glaze that. Yeah, those ofyou listening, by the way, this
(02:47):
Sprite Lemon legacy is delicious. Itlooks delicious. I'm not gonna lie.
I only got this not a sponsoryet. We're a couple of one hundred
thousand million, uh listens away fromthat, but we're keeping it on a
radar. Sorry, look good.Oh yeah, we're getting there. So
yeah. To start off, weshould talk about some of the people that
(03:10):
almost never get brought up when theytalk about the decoration of Independence. And
the first person to actually put somethingforward in the Congress was a man named
Richard Henry Lee. And in histhree first names, he does not something
(03:31):
that I thought was a little clunkyto say, because it's like bam,
bam, bam his first names.He was a member of the second Continental
Congress. He was from Virginia,and he was ep Ford. A resolution
titled the Lee Resolution because it wasnot particularly you know, thought out what
(03:55):
to call it, but this waswhat would eventually become the Declaration of Independence.
He put forth the Lee Resolution inJune of seventeen seventy six, I
think it was June seventh actually,So he wanted to break free of Britain
first. He was the first oneto say, you know, let's just
(04:16):
do it. But this was alsosomething that he has been doing this entire
time. He was one of thefirst to create called a Committee of Correspondence.
This was something that him, SamuelAdams and a few others came up
with during the Stamp Act years andstuff like that, where you would kind
(04:39):
of set up people that you knewwho were not pro British and you would
keep in touch and pass information fromone side of the country to the other
correspond with them. Yeah, ofcourse, it was kind of like a
secret organization and they were like theearly form of spy work being done before
(05:00):
the war started. They would eventry to get some of their people closer
to the higher British officials so thatthey could slowly ship away at their ability
to do things by putting stumbling blocksin front of them. And so yeah,
he was one of the first onesto join those committees and create the
(05:23):
Virginia one. So because of thathe was an instrumental person in the early
days of the war. And sowhen he was there during the Continental Congress,
he was like, I want tocome up with a way of breaking
free. He said that you know, the colonies are in a right ought
(05:45):
to be free and independent states,and they should be assolved of all allegiance
to the British crown. Was abold statement. No one in Congress was,
you know, thought it was goingto happen just so soon. In
fact, New York was definitely tryingto put force resolutions to bend the relationship
(06:08):
with Britain, so they were notprepared for this. The rest of Congress
decided to vote and put it towardscommittee to explore further and also to write
a declaration for you what to vote. They called them the Exploration Committee,
Am I correct? No, Soit was actually called the Committee of five
(06:29):
because there are five guys. That'show they came up with the restaurant name,
right, I'm pretty sure, yeah, yeah, it's like five guys.
Actually, I'm kind of interested inthis this thought process right now.
I mean, there's been a lotof fighting going on up to this point,
and you know, what other possibleresolution was there going to be?
You know, I mean obviously theycould surrender, but it seemed like that
(06:53):
was not something they wanted to do. Kind of pass the point of that,
yeah, yeah, and so I'mjust kind of curious what they thought
of beyond you know, leaving,you know, kind of forming your own
country at that point where they wantingto find some kind of other form of
peace that was not going to havesurrendering. I'm just really kind of curious
what their thought process there was.And the other thing I wanted to point
out was that, you know,this the Lee the Lee Resolution that was
(07:16):
written up in June seventh, seventeenseventy six, So that's like a less
than a month before you know,like the next set of events. So
I'd just say this, they're obviouslyan active moved really quickly. So the
Committee of Five was given three weeksto debate and figure out what was the
best course of action and whether ornot there would be a declaration put forward.
(07:39):
They were, They were given amandate to move quickly by the Congress
so that they could vote before Congresslet out in the late summer. Where
the Committee of Five was composed ofJohn Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,
Roger Sherman, and Robert Livingston.Now those first three everyone knows those
(08:01):
names. John Siams of course beingthe second president, being the third,
Benjam Franklin being like the all aroundintellectual of the founding fathers. Roger Sherman
is actually a very interesting person,though he didn't really do a whole lot
beyond the community, but he wasvery vocal about getting this pushed through.
(08:31):
When he was he was one ofthe ones that was like, all right,
we need to definitely do this.He was constantly pushing the others to
go for and he also wanted toabolish slavery declarate independence, which the Carolina's
ordinarily about. Then that's actually whySouth Carolina did not want to put on
(08:54):
this at all, because they wereworried that Sherman was going to put stuff
in there. Along with Jefferson,was also slightly leaning towards abolishing and slavery
as well, despite the fact thathe owned a lot of slaves. So
it's just like today, they tryto pack more into these things than just
(09:15):
the main text. Yeah, itwas definitely the love. Everyone had their
own ideas of what needs to goon this. These were the guys that
were the best suited to come upwith us. Dude. John Adams was
a renowned lawyer, had been sincethe days of the Boston Tea Party and
everything else. Ben Franklin. Noone doubted his intelligence, and Thomas Jefferson
(09:39):
being one of the greatest writers atthe time, was in charge of pinning
the thing. One of the thingsthat they did early on was Thomas Jefferson
wrote that they should stand for thepreservation of life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness. Benjamin Franklin felt thatthat was too wordy, and he just
said that it was just put justput life liberty into pursuit of happiness,
(10:01):
stuff with like preservation of and itwas just like small things. He kept
like need laying him on. Thatreally aggravated Thomas Jefferson during the writing of
this is kind of funny. He'sjust trying to get him into more of
a common folk mindset. Yeah,he was. And that was bender Franklin's
(10:22):
like strong wise, he knew howto speak to like just the average person
as well as people who are ofa higher standing. He was like the
Bill Clinton of his time. Yeah, you know, that's actually not far
off in a lot of ways,if you know a lot there was a
little bit. So if he wasa Bill Clinton of his time, And
would we say that George Washington wasmel Gid Washington. Yeah, yeah,
(10:46):
I think we did say that melGibson of his time, So so Benjamin
Franklin. That was like mel Gibsonin that What Women Want or whatever that
movie is where yeah, read bypeople's minds, and we've actually got two
mel Gibson's essentially, and this,uh, this is crazy we did Actually
it's actually kind of we're talking aboutThomas Jefferson. Now he was writing it
(11:09):
getting a little bit he was gettingnitpicked by Benjamin Franklin. Sorry I got
this off topic. Yeah, noilGibson. Sherman was the one that was
really pushing to have the anti slaverystuff put in there. Oh but another
thing I was going to say aboutRoger Sherman is he's the only person of
all the Founding fathers to sign allfour of the founding documentations. He signed.
(11:33):
He signed the Continental Association, whichwas the formation of like the Congress,
He signed the Declaration, and hesigned the Articles of Confederation later and
then finally he signed the Constitution.Wow, So why is he not?
Why is he not as big ofa deal? Then? Just that was
about all he ever did was interms of like big things, was being
(11:54):
part of that committee and then beinga part of the biggest thing until later
did yeah, well assure me,but he never He never went further in
political office after this. He endsup becoming mayor of in Connecticut, and
then that's about it. He's awell respected guy, though, I assume
right if yes, he was four. Yeah, he was very well respected.
(12:16):
He was very well meaning, andhe kept he was a Puritan and
so he had, you know,religious views that kept him like he had
a high standing society. But hejust unlike Franklin. Yeah, yeah,
he just did want to pursue anymajor office afterwards. He probably very well
could have become president at one point, but he just never did. He
(12:39):
was It was really one of thoseguys where if you're making a committee with
five people, you make him oneof the five. Yeah, I said
something about somebody. I guess heactually died in seventeen ninety three, which
I'm credittly wrong. I think thatmight be shortly after Washington's first term in
office. So that was a problem. You know, he was an older
(13:01):
man already, and so he justreally wouldn't have made it that much further
anyway, And that's kind of thereason why he drops off and his defense,
they all looked really old, hedid, they did. The other
guy in the Committiat five Robert Livingston. He was a like a judge and
stuff like that. He was afterhe signed, you know, worked in
(13:24):
the committee at five. He endedup becoming the Chancellor of New York,
which is their highest judge. Andhe kept that for so long that he
was chancellor for twenty four years.They just called him Chancellor for restless life.
That was his name, basically Chancellorinstant he was. He ended up
becoming US Minister to France later onin life. The Chancellor, yeah,
(13:46):
the Chancellor, And but he waskind of, you know, just a
lawyer more so than he was,probably even more a lawyer than John Adams.
He was just like everything was likehow strict the laws needed to be,
and like how perfectly worded the legalwriting of the declaration had to be.
You have to have people like himaround right when you're doing something like
(14:07):
that, absolutely, absolutely, becauseyou know, if you say something slightly
wrong, you could end up ina lot more trouble than you will be.
Now, technically this declaration was basicallythey were going to end up saying
their own death warrants if they ifthey lost, but still even if they
won, you still want things tobe set in Stone in a certain way.
So yeah, Robert Livitstain was definitelyintegral to making that all kosher.
(14:33):
You know, it was all perfectlyworded because of these men. They all
had their things they brought to thetable. Like I said, there was
a lot of contention on that firstdraft where they had to really reword it.
One of the first things was ThomasJefferson did, like I said,
wrote a lot about how against slavery. Ben Franklin, y'all had to remove
(14:56):
it because they're like, we gotto have everyone involved this. So after
a lot of arguing back and forth, they finally came up with a declaration
that they felt would appease the mostamount of people, and they needed it
to be voted on, and theyalso needed it to pass without any opposition.
(15:18):
And that was going to be aproblem because South Carolina still was iffy
on the whole situation. They didn'twant to vote for this declaration. They
were going to vote against it.Pennsylvania was going to vote against it because
Pennsylvania was ran by the Quakers andthey detested violence of any type. They
wanted to just get a peace treatysigned as fast as possible. They didn't
(15:39):
want any more war, and thiswould inevitably lead to more war. The
other problem was Delaware. Delaware shouldhave been a slam dung, but one
of the delegates from Delaware did notwant to vote for it. He wanted
to vote against it, and theother one was voting for it. Now,
(16:00):
there was a third delegate who wasnot there. His name was Caesar
Rodney. He was in Dover atthe time in Delaware, and he had
no idea that the other guy wasn'tgoing to vote for He assumed that those
two are both going to vote forit, and that he wouldn't need to
be there. And so all thisis going on, John Adams and Ben
Franklin are trying to make this passwith a flying color. So what they
(16:23):
did was they spoke to South Carolinarepresentatives and they said if no one else
voted against it, they would votefor So they had to convince the Pennsylvania
delegation to simply abstain. They saidthat you know, you won't be betraying
(16:44):
your faith by abstaining. They alsoNew York was also abstaining, but they
let everyone know immediately that they wereabstaining because the New York delegation was trying
to get peace, but they weren'tnecessarily against the declaration. A lot of
abstinence here, Yeah, so basicallythey had to get They finally did commence
(17:06):
Pennsylvania to abstain, but they neededDelaware. Caesar Rodney found out about this
and he rode throughout the night onJuly first, seventy miles in a thunderstorm
to get there. The next day, he walked in completely soaking wet and
his riding boots and everything, andhe cast his vote for the declaration,
(17:30):
so that on July second it wasable to pass. Now, it was
not signed on July second, andactually it wasn't even signed until August second,
but July second it finally passed thanksto Caesar Rodney breaking that tie.
Probably a lot of people still thatjust like didn't want to be involved with
it. Yeah, like why wouldI get involved with something like that.
(17:53):
They had to really be salesmen,I guess, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, because like this was,like I said, they said it was
their death or they were going tobe executed. Once they signed this,
there was no denying it was theirsignature. So they had to really sell
the people like we're gonna pull through, you know, we have to do
(18:14):
this. I actually wonder if itwas well, they obviously got the soldiers
right to, you know, likethe everyday people to kind of like agree.
I wonder what the I was curiousabout, Like specific citizens you know,
obviously would have had to say indeciding who was going to be debating
this. Were they like hopefully theysign it, you know, or hopefully
they didn't sign it. Well,I mean, what happened if they didn't
sign it? Right exactly? Itwas that Actually on July second, when
(18:40):
they passed this, New York wasn'taware of this, but the British troops
landed on a state not prepared toattack New York and Washington's forces, which
had made their way north at thispoint. This eventually led to them change
in their vote. Congress finally declaredon July fourth that they needed to print
(19:03):
the final draft and distribute it toall the colonial assemblies and divisions of the
army. It was still unsigned atthis moment, but they needed They believe
that people would need to see this, and they wanted it to be distributed
to different towns so that people couldread it. The only person who had
actually signed it at this point wasJohn Hancock. He was signing on behalf
(19:29):
of all of Congress, but theentire signing, like I say, wouldn't
take place until August second, whichis a whole bunch more to go there
on that. But I wanted topoint out that a few other things that
are kind of interesting. When theyprinted this, there are two hundred copies
from this one printer named John Dunlap, and he distributed them. Twenty five
(19:53):
of those still exist today, probablyworth a little bit of money. Yeah,
I'm sure John Dunlap, he said, yeah, John Dunlap. John
does a printer and in the airMaster printer. It was stupid, and
I mentioned this in the history forJuly. But because the the vote was
(20:15):
done on July second, John Adamswrote a letter to his wife saying that
July second would be celebrated for therest of the country's history going forward.
So those of you that are listeningto you, probably it'll probably get edited
out. But Jack's doing some researchin the background right now. I think
(20:37):
he also has a he has amic for his for himself his mouth,
but then he has another mic actuallyfor his keyboard. It's uh he's very
smiling, very mischievously. Right now, there's something going on right now.
Yes, I was the master isa handsome man. Master, he's a
master printer John Dunlap, Yeah,he is a He is a master pressure
(21:02):
actually in some of the prints goodquality. So let's not pass over what
you just said that. There's acouple of different things that I was thinking
of. So I don't know ifyou'd heard me or not, but I
asked, were the British aware ofwhat was going on? Was my first
question? Then the second part Iwas going to mention is how you just
dropped the bomb on the July secondthing? Well, so the my my
(21:26):
headset cut out when you were askingthat first question. Actually, but was
you saying we British? Were theyaware of what was going on? Like?
Yeah, the work? Were theyaware of something was in the works
here? Because you talked about theyou talked about the spy work. You
know, I assume it was goingon both ways. Yes, it was
so how uh in when when hehad William how when he took attack New
(21:49):
York? He they did know forwhat I gathered, they knew that they
were voting on this and information wasbeing sent back to England about it.
But yes, like the field commanders, they knew almost immediately that this was
being voted on, and so theythey wanted to strike fear and everyone's hard
(22:12):
to this point. It's why theylaunched that attack in New York and were
prepared to try to wipe out Washington'smen, which that that fighting will continue
for the foreseeable future up there.So yeah, the ones that that were
near didn't know, and shortly itwould make its way to England, where
(22:33):
it would cause quite an uproar.In fact, that's actually something I'm definitely
want to go over on the nextepisode for sure, is how the average
person felt about this everywhere, ifthey uh, if they knew, if
the field commanders knew, and theywere already landing in New York and it's
only been like like I said,less less than a month at this point
(22:55):
since the like first like drafting rightthe lead resolution, you would think that
that must mean that someone told almostimmediately in orders of that information to go
back and then travel to the tothe soldiers the joking matters. Yeah,
well they were loyalists, uh.In Congress, like I said, the
one Delaware represented there was Stonewall inDelaware. Uh, he was a loyalist.
(23:21):
He wanted to join with the British, but he was part of the
delegation and so yeah, these peoplewere feeding information back as it was happening.
So yeah, that was definitely anissue. Oh and you brought up
the July second thing real quick though. When we say landing, is that
to call when a boat arrives landing? Yeah? I think never never used
(23:44):
a turn all through the boat,but just terrify because there are boats that
were landing. Yeah, yeah,I guess you know, I've taken terms
from World War Two now, Ithink, which would be like I just
never used that with a boat.Yeah, I don't really know that there
on the pier. I'm not entirelysure now that I've questioned any evidence.
(24:10):
I mean, they're landing. Iguess they're going to land there. Yeah
all right, well well yeah,the game play is falling onto the land.
Yeah yeah. But yeah, soJuly second was supposed to be the
official holiday. July fourth just happenedto be when they started getting unprinted and
distributed, and that ended up becomingthe holiday there was celebrated because that's what
(24:30):
everyone found out about it right,and that's when there were celebrations in the
streets and everything. He said,what was the quote again, this day
will be Oh you know what Imean. It's actually a pretty intricate quote,
because what this reminds me of isif you get like a tattoo that's
misspelled. Right. Yeah. Iactually have it written down here somewhere.
(24:52):
He literally has a wrote down.Guys for listening, I'll uh, I'll
list some research good the keys hesaid, this day will be. Note,
I was trying to get the exactterminology of what he said. Well,
it's gone. What the heck andit's gone. I swear I typed
it up in money notes. Youjust read it. You just read it
(25:14):
as if you were reading. Well, I raised it, but I was
gonna do the full Okay, butyeah, yeah, he said something like,
uh, something is super cool whatever. We will be celebrating with bonfires
across the nation or something like thatevery year on July second. I don't
know what happened. I swear Ityped it up in my notes, but
(25:37):
I don't see it. Well,he was a couple of days off in
the end. I guess he was, like I said, everyone assumes it
was all signed that day, butit wasn't and I think that was funny.
Yeah, only at this point onlyJohn Hancock has signed it, and
like the whole John Hancock thing outof this. Yeah, yeah, just
signed for everybody. So he signaturenow is a John Hancock. Yeah.
(26:02):
I mean it's something that we usedto this day because he did that big.
He also because he was he knewthat the King of England had a
hard time seeing He wanted him tobe sure that he could recognize his signature.
And that's why John Hancock wrote hissignature so big. He actually drew
a picture of a hand that nevermind John Hancock. That's so what you're
(26:26):
saying is if you want an autographfrom let's say a sports star like Lebron
James, you should say, Lebron, can I have your John Hancock?
Yeah, I do have the Itwas written in a letter from John Adams
to Abigail Adams. The second dayof July seventeen seventy six will be the
(26:48):
most memorable HIPOCA in the history ofAmerica. I am able to believe that
it will be celebrated by succeeding generationsas the Great Anniversary Festival it ought to
be commemorated as the day of deliveranceby solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.
You got to be solemnized with pompand parade, with shows, games,
sports, guns, spells, bonfiresand eliminations from one end of this
(27:11):
continent to the other, from thistime forward forevermore. John Adams, I
really paraphrase the hell out, buthe did. But point being, it
was this huge I feel like Iguess he was just writing it too,
Abigail, But it feels like youwanted this lead for all to hear.
Yeah, see, this is goingto be the day. You had to
assume that if you're writing something inthat flowery that you were writing into a
(27:34):
large group of people, not justone. And it's likely that she would
have given that letter to like theirlocal ministers, who then distribute it further
as that was kind of the thingat the time. I feel like we're
missing a couple people that should havebeen founding fathers here. Wibble and well,
(27:57):
yeah, Weibble was so busy.Still he's he's still on the still
on his tirade because there's another updatefor him for a little while. But
he's he's out there he's out thereon the seat, Sherman. He signed
those one documents Beinger of Franklin.He was the only person to sign the
(28:19):
Declaration, the Treaty of Alliance withFrance, a treaty with parents and the
Constitution. That was well the membersof the Five obviously, and it's he
was definitely big about getting the Frenchinto the battle, and it was instrumental
and that happening. They were offthe very our success in the battle.
(28:41):
I'm sure when you get that morein detail one day, Oh yeah,
that's yeah, later on in thewar, but it's pretty much the only
race why we won. French navywas ready to fight and they were definitely
happy to stick it to British.So the Spanish Tavie helped in the war,
(29:02):
and that doesn't get brought up VerryAwson. Going forward to this next
month, there's gonna be a lotof reaction from systems in both the US
and England, which I would togo into considerably with the next episode obviously,
and then I also want to goover We're gonna go over to all
the other signing members, because thereare enough fifty six people who signed that
(29:26):
the declaration, and yeah, mostpeople can name like seven or eight.
Okay, I can't name seven.You put me on the spot, I
might struggle to get seven. Well, obviously there's the Committee of five.
Yeah. I was gonna say,well, is that Richard Lee. No,
isn't it right? Yeah? RichardHenerley. Oh yeah, I got
it, Richard. Then there's Sherman. Yeah, Roger Sherman. Roger Sherman.
(29:51):
That's it. Caesar rod Nate,Caesar Rodney. Let's talk about this
guy for a minute, because thatis just a name that it's worth mentioning.
I actually had to double check tomake sure his name was pronounced Caesar,
because you wouldn't think that was Idon't know, it just doesn't seem
like a name that would be usedin the US at that time or on
the column actually John. But yes, Caesar Rodney. And during the French
(30:15):
and Indian War, he was anofficer of the Delaware Militia, and then
he would become an officer in thehe said Robster Revolutionary War as well.
So he was he was more ofa fighter, and he did some political
stuff. He was a part ofthe Country Party, is what it was
(30:36):
called in Delaware. They were likeadvocates for you know, separations for the
British, but they were also forlike a less restrictions, more of a
country life. One would say.Yeah, the guy who was voting against
joining the or signed declaration. Hisname was George Reid, and he was
(30:59):
from the same county as Caesar,and he was a member of the opposition
party, which was the City Party, the Court Party. So he was
kind of always getting into arguments withGeorge Reid, even just back home,
and they didn't really care for eachother. In the Continental Congress, he
(31:21):
would lead Delaware Continentals, but theywould get beat pretty badly, particularly in
South Carolina later on. He wasnever like a grand leader. He was
just like an average leader. Thiswas his biggest moment actually, was this
ride at midnight. It's funny,it's another midnight ride. I'll just say
(31:45):
that. Yeah, sounds like astory I've heard of before. This one,
though, is definitely just one guy, Paul Revere. There were several
people riding by the end of itall, where's Paul Revere in all?
This? Seems like he really wouldwould really want his name out there.
So Paul Revere's kind of interesting.He's kind of just like fades into the
background a little bit. He's nota politician, he's not a soldier.
(32:07):
He just handled his committees of correspondenceand stuff like that. He maintains his
network of informants and just kind ofstands back unless everyone else do the dirty
work. My only note on CaesarRodney is that I like the name a
lot. Good name. I mean, I thought it was like, you
(32:29):
know, this just reminded me oflike I don't even know, watch like
a wrestler's name or something like that. I would a character, you know,
But it just amazes me that it'slike just everybody has two first names,
except for the Rogers. Guess justvery common. I guess to have
two first names, Patrick Henry,Patrick Henry Henry, Richard Henry Lee.
(32:54):
Richard Lee was best friends with PatrickHenry. Their cousins. I did.
I forgot to bring that up.Oh, another interesting thing. Roger Sherman
from the committee two first names.Yeah, yep. He's a distant relative
of General William to come Stay Shermanfrom Civil War. Wow, so this
(33:15):
is all in the family. I'mnot actually, I'm not surprised, I
say wow, yeah, because therewere like two million people or something like
that in the world. Yeah,and I think the patriotism would probably really
bleed through generation to generation and theanti slavery feelings because like you know,
to come to Sherman really wanted towreck the style and Roger Sherman wanted to
(33:37):
remove slavery from the country to start. Let me get on like a small
rabbit hole here. Do you thinkand this is just completely your opinion,
that if they would have tried toabolish slavery, then we would have had
a similar pushback that we saw laterthe Civil War. They kind of probably
(34:00):
would have like derailed this whole plan. Or do you think it would have
been more receptive then? Just justan opinion. I think I think it
would have been more receptive because theywould probably have realized they can't split right
now, like they have to notsplit in the middle of all this,
I see. I don't know,maybe afterwards they who knows, as it
(34:22):
could be there would have been pushedback like immediately afterwards, who knows it
could have been still like in thefighting mood. Yeah, that is a
really hard It just makes me wonder, you know. Yeah, Benjamin Franklin
definitely believe that they would not beable to do it if they try to
remove slavery, but others like JohnAdams and Sherman and the others, they
(34:45):
they kind of felt like they couldand it was just this pushback went forth.
Wherefore they were just like, youknow what, let's stop fighting each
other and let's just get this donenow. And it's really hard to say
if it was out because Virginia,South Carolina, North Carolina, they were
all instrumental in fighting the British andthey were heavily slave states or colonies,
(35:12):
and so it's hard, really hardto say if they would have so fallen
in line or not. My questionis, you know, if they hadn't
gotten all the signatures, and let'ssay they had like just most of the
signatures, well, well did theyhave like something in place where they'd be
like, well, we didn't getthem all, so we're just gonna stop.
Like yeah, that's yeah, goodquestion, Like, well, how
(35:34):
would that change anything? So theydidn't need everyone. They just wanted to
have an unopposed signing, gotcha moreof a political move. Yeah, they
originally were playing, well, wecould just do the vote. We got
enough colonies, we don't even needDelaware. So you know, but they
wanted to be a show of forceand show of unity against the British to
(36:00):
kind of make a statement. Soit was more, like you said,
as a political movie. It wasa It was all more of like this
is how it's our resolve. We'reall together on us. But they couldn't
get it without making some concessions hereand there, at least as far as
they believed. Whether or not theycould have hashed it out some more in
(36:22):
Congress and changed people's minds, thatis her debate. I would actually I
would actually wonder if potentially, especiallythe ones like say like Thomas Jefferson,
who was probably not concerned with gettingeveryone signed it was more concerned about getting
the the wording right in his mind. I don't know for sure, but
(36:46):
I'm almost wondering that to some degreeif he was like, well, yes,
we could change it to get everyoneto sign it, but is that
the goal? Because when you're justlike we were just sitting here talking about
it, I feel like it's thatsounds bad, but it's really hard to
really grasp the significance of it,and like why they thought it was so
(37:07):
significant exactly. So, I mean, I get retrospect here, how we
can really talk about the significance ofit, Like you just said, it's
really what the country was built on, you know, coming together, and
I guess the unique everybody's unique anddifferent coming together, I guess is what
I'm gonna say. But it's justweird to think about. Did they what
(37:27):
extent did they actually literally need togo to? Right? How you know
how to get into the mind ofthem at the time. And I know
next episode we're going to dive deeperinto things, but this is definitely something
that's on my mind right now.I would like to I would love to
know, like what is the fullthought process myself, Like do you really
(37:49):
need to send that big of amessage or with just simply signing this document
with most people be enough of amessage. I guess you don't know if
they're going to help you anyway though, Yeah, right, And so at
this point it's like they, Iguess, felt that it needed to have
more people, and without enough people, it would look like a fractured and
(38:13):
easily beaten army. And you haveto realize you have to inspire the regular
soldiers to fight against a massive armadaand army coming their way that you know,
no one had ever believed to bebeatable. So it's kind of like,
(38:37):
is it a political move or isit simply a fun story to tell
around campfire about how everyone came togetherto sign this and so now we're going
to fight for it. Yeah,that's actually really well said. I got
a lot of questions, but Ifeel like I definitely need to save them
before we bookend on the next one, for sure, anything else on this
(38:58):
top of guys, or what arewe thinking? Don't have anything else tonight
myself. So we're gonna draw aline in the sand right now and we're
gonna jump back in next week.It's what we're saying. Yeah, yeah,
we'll be jumping in basically on Julyfifth or sixth, and in how
everyone around the country is reacting tothis and what happens in New York and
then what will happen in Brittain whenthey learn of it. And then we're
(39:21):
also going to talk about some ofthe undercard you could call, of people
who signed the declaration who people don'ttalk about very often, And there's gonna
be and we won't we'll talk aboutit, I'm sure, But there's so
many people that just don't really know. I'm sure what's really going on.
There has to be people just intheir own world, just living their own
(39:42):
life, completely away from society,because that's how they that's why they came
here. A lot of them,they probably have no interest or maybe not
even any sort of sense maybe what'sgoing on? Yeah, exactly, there's
definitely a bunch, So don't Jack. It is time to do the thing,
and that thing is plugging. Howto talk to us, how to
(40:02):
find us, how to engage withus? Yeah, well, we're on
Twitter and you can contact us throughat We're at America story Pod on Twitter
and actually X now it's x nowthat is correct. I've updated that,
okay, So yeah, and youcan also email us if you have like
(40:23):
questions or you just want to talkor whatever. You know, you can
email us at America Stories Pod atgmail dot com and you can find us
on americastories dot us. Yeah,she can. That's a night neat little
website that Jack's gonna get around toone day. I so let me let
(40:44):
me ask you one thing. Canwe get out of here? Do you
think you had to like? Whoowned X dot com? And how much
money do you think they got fromthat. I really want to know.
You had to be like it hadto be a porn site, right,
I mean there's a good chance,but I mean whoever it was had to
make a little bit of money offthat. Yeah, I imaginally they got
a couple hundred thousand at least.What if they just wouldn't sell it to
(41:06):
them, like nope, not gonnahave that would have been hilarious. So
then it would like backfire the wholeplan changed the decks, right, Yeah,
a couple hundred thousand. I'm notsure like how it goes on like
early domain days, because I've onlybeen into domain biz fifteen years and really
it's probably a twenty five thirty yearthing and its most h starting point.
(41:30):
But man, you got to thinksome of those domains are worth a lot
of freaking money. Yeah yeah,yeah, even once you wouldn't think would
be worth very much money, butlike Google dot Com, Yeah, that
one would be worth a lot.Yeah, they make sure. I wonder,
like what they had to like thesepeople go in and buy things ahead
to be people like if you're justin this common folk listening, this has
(41:52):
nothing to do with the podcast thispoint in time, by the way if
it's not exactly easy to go findto domain. And when I say it's
not easy, I mean if youjust say, like, and I don't
know how we pull it off.If you just say, hey, I'm
gonna make a podcast called America Stories, You're not gonna get dot com nor
is it even active by the way, just some prick holding on to it,
(42:14):
right right exactly. You can't justgo get any domain you want,
is my point. So that's whenI don't know. We got lucky enough
to get the variation of it withthe dot us, which kind of works
out. But there's people that gotlike America Stories dot they got all that
crap block they're not even using it. So there's so many domains inactive that
(42:34):
are owned. I guess that's mypoint. I'm off my rim Yeah,
well it is. It is ridiculoussprite lemon legacy that is delicious. By
the way, it looks so looksso refreshing. I'm super refreshing. With
that being said, I think I'mgoing to segue us out of here.
We'll be back next week and wewill go into further details on the d
of I is it kind of calledit the decoration of indepenants a DFD D
(42:58):
of I reaction from people all aroundthe country and even the British encounterparts around
the world. Luke, that's whatis that, Sumer. What we're gonna
do next week pretty well yep,df I, yep, but that is
coming up with all sorts of Tshirt ideas. With that being said,
until next I say next week's actuallybi weekly. Until next episode, keep
(43:19):
being you and keep being great asI'm shaking the hell out of the sprite.
Got the kind of figs everybody knows. Brother around there, Flue,
it's going at you have and youlike you finding the road and you do
(43:40):
it as wrong people gotta thank allthe dangers, find it inside the The
best of us take care what theywant episode to them. Some of us
do you do the best weekend?Some of us do Jeff Townsend, media
(44:29):
saves you good night. And thequestion is do I stay here? Will
you be back? Are you goingto come back? Will you be back?
Are you coming back
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