Sandeep & Omar at PAX Unplugged ~ New Gamers, Thumb Warfare, Session Zeroes - (A·B·C·D) Bonus Ep - American Born Chatty Desis (A·B·C·D)

Episode Transcript
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Omar Najam (00:00):
Hello friends, this is Omar from ABCD podcast, the
podcast you're listening toright now, so you'd probably
know that.
Hello, how's it going?
Before we hop into season twoof ABCD, which is so exciting?
Thank you for getting us toseason two.
Before we do that, we actuallyhave a special surprise for you.
We have a bonus episode that wehave not released until right

(00:21):
now.
This is an episode we recordedout at PAX unplugged in
Philadelphia.
This is so cool because this isactually our first like remote
on the street episode.
With that in mind, some of theaudio isn't like perfect.
You might hear like some likepeas popping, you might hear a
little bit of wind.
We recorded on the conventionfloor, we recorded in hotel
lobbies, we even recorded it inthe airport.

(00:43):
So you know Buckle in for that.
But we are so, so, so happy toshare this bonus episode with
you, and after that we are soexcited to kick off season two
of ABCD.
All right, but enough stalling,let's get to our PAX unplugged
episode.
Enjoy.

Sandeep Parikh (01:18):
Hello, welcome to a special edition of the ABCD
podcast.
We're on a little bit of ahiatus right now, but but we're
also at PAX unplugged.
So we thought, hey, let's do usa special show.
And we've got you, omar.
Hi, it's me, omar.
Oh, my god, it is him, it'sreally him.
It's not me doing a reallygreat impression of him.
And then we also have a specialguest, my cousin Chethan.

Chethan (01:39):
Yeah, I'm stoked to be here.
It's my first board gameconvention.

I was gonna say it's your first board game
convention.
Can you tell us?
You just walked on the floorfive minutes ago what are your
initial impressions of being ata PAX Unplugged in a board game
convention?

Chethan (01:53):
Well, there are a lot of awesome.
There's a lot of awesome nerdenergy going around.
There's a ton of Games,including one that has an Indian
auntie, which sounds prettyexciting.

Yeah, let's explore that game.
Should we talk to the peopleabout that game right now?
Let's do it, okay, oh my gosh,okay.
So, omar, we saw we werebeckoned over to this booth at
PAX Because there's an Indianauntie right at the top of this
billboard, yeah, and who's like?
You know, it was like a cartooncharacter and it's apparently

(02:27):
she's a player character in thisboard game, yeah, called Arch
Ravels, so we had to come checkit out, right?
I mean, when do you ever seethat?

Omar Najam (02:36):
Never, I've never seen an Auntie on a Board game.
I know honestly like that'sright.
Yeah, well, true.

I've never played with an auntie.
I'm playing a board game, yeah,so much less being an.
I don't play as an auntie.
We have to find out.
How do we play as an auntie,and is she?
And what are superpowers?
Passive aggression, just plainaggression.
I don't know.
Let's find out.
So we're here with the directorof communication.
Sorry, remind me your nameagain.

(03:02):
My name is.

Lauren Nepomuceno (03:02):
Lauren, lauren, Neopmuceno-S hales.

So please tell us about Neeha, who is in a sari
, who's got iron as cast ironkettles in the background and
Apparently she's a knitter like.
Tell us about this.

Neeha is a very important character.
She has each character in ourtravels has special abilities.
Hers is the color specialist,so she is able to dye fabric
using spices From India.
So that is her Contribution.
So her ability is she's able toshop to and craft one ignoring

(03:37):
the color patterns on the board.
So that's her special power,because she could dye the fabric
, she could dye the yarn.
So she is literally livingoutside of the pattern, outside
of the box.

She also able to bargain everyone else down.

There is no bargaining.
It is, although there could behouse rules.
You know, who knows?

At home, I'm telling you my house, my rule.
Yeah, the whole thing is likeI'll take it for two and no, no
more.

Yeah, absolutely there are.
There are.
I've heard of house rules wherepeople do batter At the bazaar
here, but that's not necessarilythe case.
And what's so important aboutNeeha and why we love her, is
that as much as it's importantto represent different cultures
in games, it's really importantto represent different cultures
in fiber arts.

(04:26):
So multicultural influences infiber arts and Respecting that
and showing homage to that is soimportant.

So that's what we have Well why don't you give
us a little overview of the gameitself?
Because it's a podcast.
If you look at see it Like,this is a game where you're like
building yarn Characters, rightlike so this is a yarn resource
management game.

So if you crafters knitters out there,
have too much yarn in your stash.
This is you'll.
You'll understand that that'ssome yarn Going off in the stash
.
Basically, you shop for yarn,you follow these color patterns
at the bottom of your board andby completing these patterns you
could complete projects thateveryone is competing for.

(05:12):
So this is the project board.
So someone requested twoblankets for winters coming and
we're all fighting to completetwo blankets to get these 20
points for winters coming.
We got the game designer here,Adam (McCrimmon).

Adam McCrimmon (05:27):
Yes, Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.

We were beckoned over by the call of Neeha.

We saw, we were like.

I was like you know, mama G, like what are you
doing on a billboard?
Like I got to come over andcheck it out.

So she's choosing her colors.

This game, like what, like what was the
inspiration?

Yeah, so years ago, when we were repping our
very first game robot lab wewere I met another, another fan
of board games and her and Iwere talking, and she was a
crafter and she was talkingabout how, in the crafting, you
always have so much yarn youdon't know what to do with it.
You're always getting new yarnbecause it's beautiful and you
love it, and it just felt like areally fun, cozy world to be in

(06:12):
.
Yeah, and the the gamer in me,the set collection and the
resource management of like yarnright, I need a certain amount,
I need certain colors, I needcertain combinations it started
clicking in my brain of like ohyeah, I want to do that.
That sounds fun.
That sounds like a cool puzzleto play.
So we we designed the game backoriginally in like 2018, and

(06:34):
when I first designed the game,it was mostly cards.
The game is a mostly card game,and it was we had locked, we
had locked design, we hadfinished testing, we were on our
way to Kickstarter.
So we were doing all theproduction work for Kickstarter,
and I woke up Late at night inJuly I can't remember what day

(06:55):
it was like two in the morning,though, and I woke up and was
like man, there's somethingabout it that doesn't feel right
.
And that night I drafted out aconcept of redesigning the game
to be Bits and pieces and tilesand all those things.
You're crafting exactly that wasexactly the nugget that I felt
and went oh, I have to redesign.

Oh, yeah, absolutely, our head of
production over there, jordan he.

The next morning he woke up to an email, a
spreadsheet and a bunch ofdrafts on paper Pictures from me
, like this is the new conceptfor where we're going with Arch
Ravels.
Yeah, and he went dude, welocked design.
We're going to Kickstarter intwo months, what?
And I was like right, butsearch your feelings.

(07:45):
You know this to be true.
Yeah and the first time we putit together and we just use like
bits from the game crafter andjust prototyped it out With a
tactile feel of moving the bitsand getting the pieces like that
.
It sealed it for us.

Omar Najam (08:00):
Yeah, I mean, is there anything?
Is there not anything moreAuntie energy than last minute
changes?

Aalok Mehta (08:08):
Changing up.
You know I'm birthday.

Chethan (08:10):
Yeah.

Yeah, this needs more spices.
We're just going to put it into the ladoo and you're gonna
deal with it.

Yeah, totally and.

I love that man.

Very cool and then from there we were off to
the races and, you know, theKickstarter performed really
well.
People came out really a lot ofsupport for this.
You know we, a lot of love,went into this to make it real
for crafters.
We actually, you know, we havecrafting consultants that helped
us with this to make sure wehave the terminology right, the
artwork Right.
You know, we really wanted tomake sure that whether you are a

(08:38):
crocheter or a knitter, itappeals to you either way and
you feel represented.
And then you know, on thesubject of representation, our
company motto is invent newgamers, and we believe that that
includes it has to be a verywide umbrella.
Yeah, everybody is welcome inthat.
So, if you've noticed, but forevery one of the player boards

(08:59):
in there, double-sided and wehave, you know, people that
represent the wide variety ofgamers on our boards Including
with the expansion coming outnext year, it'll actually up the
player count to six you get twonew player types that we didn't
have before, two new craftingspecialties, and on those boards
as well, you're like wecontinue that trend through

(09:19):
because we really think it'ssuper important that, no matter
who you are when you come togaming, you can see yourself
reflected in what you're playing.

Yeah, yeah, I want to play this with a group
of aunties.
Like I push my auntie, let's go, it's your turn.
I'm excited for that.

That'd be cool the first year that this came
out.
We did an event at a local yarnshop in Indianapolis in
conjunction with Gen Con thatyear and it was 20 Grammas yeah,
it was 20 grannies and theywere excited.
They were like, oh, we're gonnaplay a game about knitting and
a few of them had a littletrouble with the rules, but a
few of them were reallycutthroat those grannies, oh man

(09:57):
.

You can't see what I'm working on.

Oh, you're going for that one, I'm doing it next
.
It was, it was very cutthroat.

Oh, that's great , Great television.
You guys should have shot that.

that's amazing to watch yeah so wait and then
you can like actually craftthese, yeah, so you know this is
a crafting game and wanted tofeel good for the crafting
audience.
So in the original game weincluded a crochet pattern.
It's a very much a beginnerpattern.
If you've never crochetedbefore, it's super simple to
follow.
You may have to look up some ofthe acronyms online, sure, but

(10:30):
it makes this adorable littleoctopus.
No way.
Yeah, and this was actuallyinspired by a fan.
The first time that we showedArch Ravels they were so smitten
with the octopus on the side onthe top of the box that later
that day they came back and theygave me an octopus no way.
This is the original.

Like the five dollars taped to the wall for
the first money you made you gotyour first octopus.

Chethan (10:59):
Yeah.

You know what we're gonna.
We want to include it in thegame.
Yeah, everyone who gets thegame to have a chance to make
something.
It's so stinking cute.

It's like a little hat for your hand.

Omar Najam (11:11):
I mean it's so cute, yeah, yeah I mean I, I love
that so much because Playinggames is great, it's the dream,
so we all love, yeah, but it isat times like that, so sometimes
as far as it'll go, yeah,curiosity kind of stops there,
exactly, exactly.
I love that you're taking onestep further, like did you enjoy
this art form?
Now go play the game, go do it.

(11:32):
Play the game, go do exactly.

Yeah, and then we're gonna continue that trend.
So this was a very simple one.
We put in Arch Ravels, right.
But next year we have not onlythe expansion, Arch Ravels:
Magic Socks.
Gnomes have moved into the yarnbazarr, they will trade you a
magical sock for any human madeitem.
It gives you two new players aswell.
But then we're also releasing aseries of theme packs.

(11:55):
Okay, these allow you tore-theme the game you're playing
from being the traditional hat,bear, mitten, scarf and blanket
right to items in that theme.
So we've got an enchanted themewhere everything is like
fantasy themed great.
We've got cuddles, dinos andcryptids.
Yeah, everything is a cuddlyanimal, a dinosaur or a cryptid.

(12:16):
Each one of those is going tocome with a advanced crochet
pattern that it lets you makethe adorable stuffies you can
see over our booth incredible.

This is so cool.
I'm so glad we stumbled ontothis.

Omar Najam (12:30):
Beckoned by auntie.

Yeah, you know it's funny is like I have a
little four-year-old and we'relooking at Waldorf schools.
I don't know you know if youknow about Waldorf schools, but
they're really big into knittinglike as a part of like the
curriculum they teach these kidshow to knit.
So I'm just opening that up toyou as a potential market for
your game.
These Waldorf schools, andthat's probably a thing I Want
to know.

I want to make a , my first ravel.
Oh yeah, like something forkids.
It's like the beginnings oflearning.
Hey, if I make it, you inspiredit.

Oh, we're live now, baby.
Hello check, hello check.

Hello check, hello check, hello, hello.

You should do it like you know when our parents
were on the phone with India and, like my parents, I don't know
if you have this phenomenon, butwhen you're on the phone with
India, you're just screaminginto the phone and then, even
after reception got better overthe years, they still had to.

Yeah this is not a sure habit.
I still do that.
It's generational.
It's like trauma like.
I haven't even broken the cycleyet.
My kids do it too, okay.

Let me, let's let me introduce who you're
listening to right now.
This is Aalok Mehta, who didthe music.
He was one one half of theOriginal composition team that
did the music for DesiQ uest.
We ran into him because he is aEast coaster.
He lives in New York now, butyou know originally from from
Philly, the Philly area.
Yeah, yeah, we had a wholeconversation earlier off pod,

(14:08):
but Quest love would not saythat you were from the Philly
area, correct?

No, no, no, none of The Roots would say I'm from
Philly, because I'm actuallyfrom Cherry Hill, which is over
the bridge, even thoughgeographically I grew up closer
to where the Eagles, Flyers andSixers play.
That a lot of people who claimthey're from Philadelphia, but
that's for a different podcast.

Omar Najam (14:26):
I think folks, if you're listening and you're like
, but The Roots wouldn't reallysay that they did.

They did in fact say that to you.

Yes, Cherry Hill ain't Philly.
I think it was the yeah yeah.

Omar Najam (14:45):
Amazing.

So, speaking of musicians, you did the music for
Desi Quest I did.
I did myself and JohnPiscatello, who is amazing,
incredible, talented composer.
The two of us collaborated onit and it really was a true kind
of mix of East and West andorchestral and folk and Indian,
classical and Cinematic andfantasy and all those great

(15:09):
things that I've been wanting todo.
So I'm super grateful to bepart of this team and be a cog
in, you know, in the wheel ofthis first Historical.
People has used historical alot lately.
It's everything's historical.

But it is, but it is cool, it's really it's
very.

You know, I'm super grateful to be part of this
team.

It's very awesome so yeah, you, you took
like a I don't want to sayscientific or maybe scientific,
but like or a historicalapproach To creating the music
for DesiQuest, which I think issuper unique.
Can you speak to the?
You know the ragas and like howyou know your sure process for
creating the music for each ofthe characters?

Sure, sure.
So I've always wanted a projectto sort of kind of beta test
these philosophical ideas I'vehad about Indian music and how.
You know that it's actually notmy idea, but the roots of a lot
of Indian art comes from thisancient text called the Natya

(16:06):
Shastra, which is a it's one ofthe Upanishads, when I like the
you know the, the Vedic text,and it Is basically a manual on
acting, on art, on dance, oneverything, and they have these
nine sort of variables calledthe rasas, which are different
emotions and each character.
For me, in DesiQ uest, I sortof Assigned certain rasas, that

(16:29):
which later in Indian classicalmusic became what's known as
raga, which is sort of a looselytranslated into like a system
or a melodic framework by whichto create music.
And so we kind of like JP and Iboth and him coming from the
Western background, who hadknowledge of different modes as
well, we kind of decided okay,you know Murkha should be this

(16:51):
sort of A lot of.
It was from you know the.
You know what I got fromSandeep and you know the.
The briefs you guys gave arevery specific in terms of
Describing the essence of acharacter.
So we kind of just went.
You know, I decided to approachit like, okay, you gave me
enough, and then I sort of, youknow, interfaced it with these
nine rasas and you know, looseinspiration.

I want to get like an example, like a specific
example where like so obviouslyAsh you like went for like sexy
probably.

It was like was like "too sexy on.
It was like too sexy, likethey're sexy, and then it's like
too sexy.

That's.
Two of the nine are sexy andtoo sexy.

And like Murkha was , like too too sexy and Murkha
was like too sexy, like it'slike too sexy, like it's like
it's a little bit more like youknow just like yeah, like it was
like a different chakra fromwhich we emote the too sexy you
know.
It was like more like yeah youhave to study Kundalini yoga in
LA to kind of really get Murkha.

Chethan (17:56):
No.

But yeah.

Because you told me that there was like a graph
or a table that you like it'slike created for each of the
characters or something likethat.
Like, I'm not gonna give upsecret sauce, the chat masala.

Oh no, but you want , you want us to okay, if you
don't want to, you know ofcourse.
No, we, we, we definitely.
Yeah, part of the workflow withJohn and I was kind of like
sharing all of our sort ofcreative ideas and we, you know,
yeah, we sort of came up with aspreadsheet that had certain
kind of thematic melodic ideasBased on the different

(18:32):
characters, and then once we gotinto it, it was really just
kind of a point of departure andthen, you know, we Scored, like
you know, like any job, and youknow it sounds very
philosophical, but it did helpto kind of index certain
character traits With certainmelodic ideas.
If that makes sense, I thinkit's super cool.

What do you think?

is it?

too sexy, it's very sexy.

Omar Najam (18:59):
Okay, so we talk a lot on our show about like with
chakras and chakra check-ins,and a lot of that is like where,
what's the driving force?
You know, what energy do youlead into this?
So, for you, in musiccomposition and thinking about
music, what do you think is yourguiding?
Like the part of your mind oryour soul that Keeps you
creating music?

(19:19):
That is the clear, like musicis the clarifying element of
this for you.

Oh, Wow, what chakra does it spawn from?

Yeah, Wow, I didn't know we were getting this
intimate guys.
This is, this is too sexy.
Yeah, you know, DesiQuest iskind of like root into hara,
into no.

Yeah.

I mean, listen, you guys are, you know it's, it's,
I would say there's the range ofStorylines and characters
within DesiQuest, that kind ofexplores all these realms.
I mean there's certain thingsthat are, you know, it never
gets too dark, like it's alwayswithin the framework of

(20:04):
entertaining, buoyancy and fun.
So we didn't want to make itlike too dark.
But there's moments like wherewe get into it, like with the
battle themes and the jungletheme and the mountain theme,
like we I specifically hadRaga's that you know we wanted
to use as our, as our point ofdeparture, that were kind of

(20:25):
darker and more angsty and kindof had a little bit unrest to it
, but then a lot of, like, youknow, just a sprightly stuff.
And Sitara, Anjali stuff is veryBollywood fun, you know, but
there's still an element youknow of, of Romance and you know

(20:45):
, within that and then, withMurkha, we really wanted to have
a certain warmth and sort of aCreative, almost like maternal
quality at times.
That was very like soothing,you know, but also kind of
scientific.
So you know we would add synthsand layers, that kind of, you
know, made sense for that.
And Ash was like a very muchlike a Traveller longing.

(21:08):
I wanted to go like Lydian moderagyamen 70s Pink Floyd B side
kind of vibe you know, and youknow we had.

You play the melody to Wizard of Oz If you
play Ash's melody to Wizard ofOz.

Omar Najam (21:23):
No, no, if you play the Ash's, Ash's melody to
Wizard of Oz you.

It aligns up perfectly.
You see god.
Yeah, yeah, you do you becomefully realized and you ascend,
you achieve samadhi.

That's season seven .

Yeah, can you speak to.
Because DesiQuest is really acult.

I think that's the hope.
what I just you know, if we'regonna succeed, we need to be a
cult.

I mean that's where we need to get.

Omar Najam (21:48):
I think it folks, you can support this at
DesiQuest.
com.

Go to patreon.
com/desiquest and subscribe toour cult and that would be great
our leadership training module,which will be released
posthumously.
So this is kind of your firstintroduction into TTRPG.
Yeah, can you speak to that alittle bit?
Oh yeah.

Yeah.
So I mean, what a cool way toget into it, like I kind of just
by default of you know, havingto be involved in with this had
to learn a little bit and Verycool and and probably more
accessible, given that you knowthese are brown people kind of
playing brown characters, and soI thought you know that kind of

(22:33):
For somebody who wasn't maybedrawn to it prior to DesiQuest,
you know that's really, I thinka lot more people Probably get
into it.
I think this could be acatalyst for you know more Desis
he's just getting into RPGs.
I think that's the hope forsure.

Omar Najam (22:51):
In terms of like inspirations and thinking about
themes in general.
If you could assign LaddooAuntie any existing like
vigilante or superhero theme,what would it be?
What do you feel from LaddooAuntie?

I would say so, For me Laddoo Auntie and I hope we
kind of encapsulated that in themusic was like I was thinking,
sort of very kind of like Almostlike lazy languid, slow,
unassuming auntie who then allof a sudden will pull out a

(23:29):
rolling pin and chase you and belike spastic and like Yoda in
Attack of the Clones, is veryunassuming.
And then all of a sudden doesthis crazy Count Dooku fight and
then back to limping away.
So I approached Laddoo Auntiekind of like that I wanted the
Laddoo Auntie to have this, uh,appa rency of very unassuming

(23:51):
and then all of a sudden, youknow, and so I think we we tried
to accomplish that a little.
And then I also wanted to makeLaddoo Auntie kind of have a
south Indian, uh musicalcomponent, because Rekha being a
south Indian, I don't know Ijust thought there would be an
excuse to have a carnaticclassical like the Indian
classical from the south.
So we hired a south Indianclassical violinist to do these

(24:16):
kind of intense sections in theLaddoo Auntie theme.
So yeah, hopefully, if youlisten to it when we release the
soundtrack, you know, you cankind of track that a little.
So hopefully it's there.
We did go for that.
What?

TTRPG show.
Does I mean it's crazy.
Hiring south Asian classicalviolinist is amazing.
Um, I mean, really, you and JPbrought so many of your
resources and talents around youinto the show.
It's like we're so thankful forthat.
Um, I want to speak to alsobecause the show is.
This show is ABCD and justspeaking to the like, the sort
of the American born, Desiexperience Can you in, uh, in 30

(24:51):
seconds or less?

I'm just kidding .

Or just just, I guess you know, because you're
not just a composer and not thatthat's a just, but also an
actor.
You're on the show, The Chosen,you know, you're uh, you told
me you're doing a movie thatjust came out Like just being an
artist, a south Asian artist,like can you speak to that
journey a little bit Like youknow, how did it kind of begin
for you and and where are you atnow?

Oh, wow, wow, I mean in 30 seconds or less.
So I think, growing up,specifically, I know you guys
are called ABCD, you know thispodcast, but you know, growing
up, having been exposed to, you,know Philly and, uh, you know
Western music and Indian musiclike it's you couldn't escape
kind of the 70s Bollywood, 80sBollywood of your parents.

(25:36):
But I also grew up playing inrock bands and I studied
harmonium as a kid.
Oh, wow.
So I learned Indian music waslike my.
My first instrument was aharmonium, so kind of, and then
I went on to keyboard.
But I always had that sort ofIndian training in how I
approached the keyboard and howI approached music.
So it was, um, yeah, I mean Iwould say it's.

(25:58):
You know it was less sort of aplan than more, it was more kind
of just you know the way it wasa form of art.

Yeah, and were your parents cool with that?

Yeah, my parents were actually very supportive,
so I was kind of lucky.
But yeah, no, I actually Iremember going to the U2 concert
in 87 with my yeah, basically,I was like I saw my.
I went with my brother, taggedalong with my older brother and
a bunch of people, and I waslike, oh, this is cool, Like a
lot of people together at a rockconcert.
And then and then I studiedSitar in college and went to

(26:37):
India to study music and andjust felt like this kind of
calling for Indian music, and soI started off as a musician
first and then my brother made amovie called American Chai,
which was like a indie filmwhere I got to be in it and play
a musician.

It's like the OG , you know, like American Indian
, american show movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we were one of the first.
It was like us.
And then there's American Desiyeah With Kal and Rizwan and a
bunch of people, and then therewas like one or two other movies
.
But yeah, it was at the time itwas kind of like a lot of us,
our hero's journey, our mythickind of coming of age story.
Was was.
That was like you know, thatgenerational thing where you
know we wanted to be artists andour parents are kind of

(27:22):
navigating, being, you know,immigrants and all that, and
it's it really is lovely.
Now here we are with like DesiQuest, like you know, 23 years
later, and it's like mainstreammore, you know, and I think it's
it's really exciting for me tokind of come full circle with
that and be involved in like anIndian first again, you know,

(27:44):
and I got to be in Bombay Dreamsalso as an actor.
That was the first Broadwayshow and I guess it's dawning on
me now right in this momentlike how cool this is, you're
the guy.

Chethan (27:54):
It's really.
It's really, You're theconnected tissue.

No, well, no, I mean I'm, you know, I just want
to be.
You know some part of this likeit's really cool, it's, it's
definitely.
Yeah, I mean you know they saylike, if you can think of
anything else to do, like don'tbe an artist, don't be an actor,
because you know it is.
It does take a certain amountof masochism to do what we do,
you know like it is crazy.
So for me, I mean it's like Iwish I had like a, an answer to

(28:20):
that that was, you know,intellectual.
It's more kind of just like youknow, I really can't do
anything, I really suck ateverything else.
You know, and I can sort of getby on Desi projects, you know
in what I do.

Well, thanks for bringing all your non-suckery
to the show DesiQuest.
I mean, I think you can.
You can hear the love andattention and detail in the show
, in the soundtrack, and it justadds that extra level, the
extra dimension of authenticityand and and you know just the
uniqueness that I think you justdon't get out of, out of shows
like this usually.

It's like I'm sexy, I'm sexy.

Hashtag I'm sexy.

Omar Najam (29:02):
Our lawyers are saying verify that hashtag
before you.
Last question for you.
Let's let's put the spotlighton you, let's really shine this.
If you had a theme as a person,what would your theme be to
celebrate in the show?
Well, I've been in the showlots of times where, like, this
is what I appreciate about you,know the other person and this

(29:23):
is what I appreciate aboutmyself.
So, for you, what are theaspects and characteristics that
you would highlight musically?

Oh, wow, that's that's, that's tough, that's
tough.
I guess it depends on you knowwhat version of me is a part of
the story and in what context.
But yeah, I mean I would sayyou know I would.
I would hope that whatevermusic that I am sort of kind of,

(29:57):
whatever platform or frameworkof music from which I'm
operating, would be sort of liketolerant enough,
improvisational and, you know,still following the structure,
but also open to like change andyou know whatever is needed in
the moment.
You know not too fixed, not to.
You know probably kind of likea little bit like maybe the

(30:17):
Laddoo theme, you know like it'sjust like.
You know a little bit.
You know minimal and thenspastic and you know kind of
everything in between.

Real quick as a final, last question what is the
?
What kind of D&D characterwould you want to be in the
world of?

DesiQuest.
Oh wow, would you and we couldhave you look at it.
Yeah, I think it would beinteresting.
Wow, wow, okay, this is cool.
This is cool, maybe, like,maybe like one of those, like
like "The Druncle like that,like that like that uncle at an
Indian wedding who's like youlove, but is also a little

(30:54):
embarrassing.

Yeah, yeah, Like you're like excited that he's
there for the first two hours,and then you're like don't hang
out with him after 9pm.

Omar Najam (31:00):
Exactly, Exactly.
We don't call a Druncle to asecond location Like who's going
to take him home?

You know, has he had his meds?

Omar Najam (31:11):
You have to try this whiskey, not with you, we don't
what class would Druncle be.
Maybe help him out with theclass, oh, oh, I mean honestly,
I want to say barbarian, I wantto say barbarian.

Laddoo Auntie and Druncle two barbarians in a
pod, yeah a hundred percent yeah.

But I'd want to be Druncle Ji you know the J-I so
like there's respect Likeself-appointed Druncle Ji or
like same as that guy Drunkle,you know, or?

Chethan (31:39):
something.

Omar Najam (31:41):
Okay, so there's a multi-class with maybe a
sorcerer there.

Yeah, or a monkey, awesome.
Thank you so much for joiningus.

Thank you, thank you Omar, thank you Sandeep.
You guys are awesome.

Omar Najam (31:53):
DesiQuest is awesome and it is just too sexy to be a
part of this Too sexy and, forcontext, we are screaming too
sexy in a hotel lobby right now.
Alright, everyone, we arejoined by James Brent Isaacs,

(32:14):
international Thumb WrestlingChampion.
Is that correct?

James Brent Isaacs (32:17):
Yes, yes, 2013 World Thumb Wrestling
Champion.

Omar Najam (32:22):
And can you give us some context as to what a thumb
wrestling champion, what thatmeans?

Yes, it means you go to England and
represent your country and thumbwrestle.
That's it.
That's amazing.

We're in England .
Do they hold thesechampionships?
Is it always in the same place?

Yeah, it's in Suffolk, which is in Lowstaff
in the UK, so it's about anhour and a half north of London.
And yeah, I was the firstAmerican to ever compete and
then the first American to everwin, and I think I set the world
record for fastest pin in, likemy second match or first match
somewhere around there.

So this is going to be a drubbing, but not just
a drubbing.
You're going to teach me sometechnique as well.
Okay, great, great, great.
I'm so excited Because I sortof I'll be honest I fancy myself
a very good thumb wrestler.
Does everyone do it?
I think I'm good.
I always used to joke that like, oh, if there was professional
thumb wrestling or professionalwiffle ball, those are the two
things that I think I would doreally well, and I guess I'm

(33:22):
about to find out whether I'meven remotely close to
self-describing myself beingreally actually good at thumb
wrestling or not.

We will, yes , we will find out All right.

So how do we do this?
All right basic rules.

Here we're going to go very simple Elbows
free.
Don't need to keep them down oranything.
It's just a very simple one,two, three, four, I declare a
thumb war to start and then youhave to win by pinning the other
person and saying one, two,three, four, I win the thumb war
.

And you say that as fast as you can, and then
that's it.
I just want to put your thumbdown for a second.
I just want to describe thatI'm not in my thumb weight class
.
I don't know if that's a thing,but there should be, because,
like I think, my thumb is aboutone third of your thumb.

It's quite all right.
It's all about technique.

Okay, all right, great, great.
So one, two, three, four, Ideclare a thumb war.

Oh wow, he's already done better than most.

Come on, let's go.

One, two, three, four.

I'm in the thumb war no you got out, you got out
, it's so it the reach yeah.

You really want to win.
This is nice.
One, two, three, four on thethumb war oh, it was good,
though it was good Okay.

How can you get better?
Okay, get me better.
Thanks for watching ESPN.
I feel, even that I made anattack at all, I feel good about
.

Oh yeah, absolutely yeah you definitely
be proud of yourself, so youhave a lot of potential.

Thank you.

I'm going to give you a few tricks.
Yeah, practice a little bit.

I'm so excited You'll be able to compete.

So essentially what's happening
here are two things for mytechnique.
So the first is everyone in thethumb wrestle usually just
tries to overpower their person,right, so knowing that they're
going to lunge forward, right,instead of like going back or
trying to like go at the sametime, I dart at an angle, okay.

That allows me to then hook at the base.
That was like your first move.

Yeah, yeah so here I'm at the bottom of
your thumb, so I'm at the holeyou have no range of motion at
that point.

Yeah, yeah, it's actually a classical Indian text
about thumb wrestling.

In the Upanishads.

Amazing, so nine times out of 10, you do
this simple move, you get themreally quickly.

Can I try it?
I want to try it.
Yeah, absolutely so.
It's like you dart, and thenyou go here, pull down as hard
as you can, yeah, and I can't.

There's nothing.
I don't have space, I don'thave strength.

There's like it's all the whole range of
mobility is done.
Crazy, okay, cool.

Now the second technique here is if you
actually do get pinned, yeah, soit's pretty easy.
So actually we'll switch.
Pin me, okay, right, so you'reholding on as hard as you can,
as hard as you can, all right, Ican't break that, I can't force
myself out of that, that'sgreat.
All right, keep going as hard asyou can Cool.
So instead of pressing againstyou and your power, I'm just

(36:25):
using yours.
So instead of pressing upwards,I press down with you, and that
allows me to slide out the back.
I love that.
Okay, and that's it.

Is there a move that I can make to prevent you
from doing that, or not really?

No, not really At this point, it's just
about wanting it.
If they're really holding downtight, it's going to be harder.

Yeah, but for the most part, just keeping calm
, remembering to press down andthen go out Because they have to
say the things yeah, you havesome time, right, right.

So this is more offensive and then this is
more defensive.
Yeah, so I got you just prettysimple, like that.
Okay, that's it.
I love it.
He learns quick folks.
He learns quick.

Okay, I'm ready 2024, baby 2024.

The first Indian-American representative.
I mean, I got my coach.
I will back you the entire way,Sounds.
I will be your Yoda.

Omar Najam (37:16):
And if you win, the British have to give us back
everything.

The Kohinoor.

The Kohinoor's, ours At ThumbCon.

Omar Najam (37:26):
Thank you, tiger Monkey himself.
That was amazing.

Chethan (37:28):
That was awesome.
Tell us your name.

James Brent Isaacs, aka Tiger Monkey, world
Thumb Wrestling Champion 2013.

Is that your Thumb Wrestling name?
That was my Thumb Wrestlingname, tiger Monkey.
Yeah, how did you come to thatname?
I?

was a pounce like a tiger, but I'm agile
like a monkey.

Okay, I love it.
That's awesome.
Do you have a name for me?
Can I be anointed a name foryou?

Oh, I can't do that on the spot.

No, no, no, no, no no.

That's not that's.
I can't do that.
Or like what isn't there, likein football, is like Megatron,
and then there's Minitron, soit's like kitty, kitty, baby
monkey, I don't know Kitty, babymonkey is close.

We'll work on it.
We'll work on it.
We want it like Tiggie Mononoke.

I like Tiggy Mononoke, I'm coming for you.
2024 Suffolk Prepare to sufferSuffolk.

Omar Najam (38:27):
Hey gang, it's me again.
Before we hop into the nextsegment, I wanted to do an
official introduction because wewere rushing around the
convention floor and bumped intoour friends Elise Rizendes and
Gabe Hicks over at the MythicGrove Productions booth and we
wanted to sneak in and chat withthem about their "ession zero
system, which is amazing.
So you're about to hear us playthrough the session zero system

(38:47):
, which is a system where youessentially get to form
relationships in your games,form identities in your games,
build out character, build outthe world, get a sense of where
your narrative is going, allbefore you start the first
second of your first session.
So we're about to hop into that.
But since we were runningaround, we didn't really like

(39:09):
officially do a properintroduction, so I just wanted
to knock that out.
Make sure you understand that.
So here is our interview withElise Rezendes and Gabe Hicks as
they escort us into a coolsecret room at the Mythic Grove
Productions booth at Pax U.
Oh, alright, we're here with ouroh yeah, oh yeah, okay, sorry,
sorry about that.
Okay, sorry about that.

(39:29):
We're going.
Okay, we're being led.
Oh, we're in trouble.

Where are?

Gabe Hicks (39:33):
we going, where are you?

I'm actually.
Oh my god, wait, is there roomfull of boxes and corpses?
What's happening in here?
No, no, they're done.
I got rid of them.
We're recording right now.
We're recording.
Wait, there's another room.
Why is there another?

Elise Rezendes (39:47):
room.
Is this the sex?

Gabe Hicks (39:50):
room.
What's happening?
No, no, legally no.

If my lawyer asks you were never here.

Gabe Hicks (39:57):
Got it, got it okay.
Legally we can't say that therewas.

Chethan (40:00):
Yeah yeah this is crazy .

There's chairs and everything, oh my god, is
that lava lamp?

We all took a little HEPA on that air filter.
If anybody needs some tea, whatBeautiful yeah.

Amazing.
Covid is not allowed in thisroom.

Omar Najam (40:10):
This is incredible.
We are here with our goodfriends Gabe and Elise.
How you both doing.

Tired as hell.
So fucking good, so fuckingtired.
Okay, I see that you guys arereclined, oops.

Omar Najam (40:22):
We are here in the Speakeasy room, here at the
Session Zero System booth MythicGrove booth.

Gabe Hicks (40:29):
It was a Mythic Grove booth, but here.

Omar Najam (40:30):
Thank you very much.
Sandeep was like you do it andI was like this is a bad
interview.

Gabe Hicks (40:35):
We're here at the Mythic Grove booth that has the
Session Zero system for sale.

It's a PAX exclusive.
Why am I?

Omar Najam (40:41):
on the show when you could have Gabe handle this,
because they needed someone cute.

They're so pretty, we needed the glasses.

Gabe Hicks (40:49):
I have glasses, oh okay, well nevermind then.
.

And I have the haircut.

Do you have an array of glasses collection like
Omar does?
I don't think you do.

Omar Najam (40:58):
Yes, you do, yeah, do you can't prove otherwise.

Gabe Hicks (41:01):
Do you guys want to have the glasses off?

Omar Najam (41:02):
It's audio.

Gabe Hicks (41:03):
That's called being blind and losing your things.
Well, I had the pleasure ofplaying this a little while ago
for testing it out.
What did you think?
I loved it.

Omar Najam (41:15):
I mean, this was like last year, I think.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and Ihad a great time.
It was of all the sort of likepre- and there's you know not
many that I've seen folks rollout with to be like, hey, let's
take this character buildingseriously, let's take like
diving deep into yourcharacter's background seriously
.

Gabe Hicks (41:32):
You want to build a character right now.
Yeah, hey, did you know thatyour?

name's in the book.
I didn't know that what.

Omar Najam (41:38):
This is the first time I'm finding out about this.
I didn't know that.

No big deal.
You're credited on the game.
Did you know this, Sandeep?
No!?

Why would I know that?
I know, we told everybody butyou.

Yes, that's so funny.

No, you were one of the groups that did some of
the first kickstarting.
Yeah, yeah, play testing.
It was amazing.

Omar Najam (41:56):
Oh my god what a dream! Okay, well, let's do this
yes, let's do our part.

Gabe Hicks (41:58):
Draw your so there are three steps to it.
There is legacy, bond, catalyst.
Legacy is where you are comingfrom and part of your origin.
Yes, bond is someone that isrelevant to your story, someone
that we can include in thisworld, and catalyst is what set
you on this adventure to becomewho you are.
So let's start with your legacy.

Omar Najam (42:12):
Go ahead and pull.
Okay, here we go.

Go Right here from the top Should this be the
character that you play at ourgame.

Omar Najam (42:20):
Made in two hours Mindful, mindful, gorgeous art.

So here are the things that I want you to pay
attention to when we're askingthese.
This path represents the manyways in which your character's
story can begin, what people andplaces they hail from.
A person can become who theyare because of, or in spite of
their origins, so pay attentionto that.
When I read for you Okay,mindful, you were raised to
respect and live in harmony withnature's power.
What secret did you learn fromyour upbringing that others may

(42:46):
not know about this region?
What did it take to adjust tothe more metropolitan world
around you, and what do youcherish most from home?

Omar Najam (42:53):
Oh my gosh, okay, off the top of my mind.
A secret that I'm aware of isthat, where I'm from, if you are
quiet and patient enough, youhear the trees speak to one
another.
They whisper, adjusting to themetropolitan area.
Those trees don't talk.

(43:14):
They're blocks apart, but theydon't speak with one another.
They don't even speak tothemselves, and so the thing I
miss the most from home, I think, is that breeze blowing through
that carries the words from onetree to another.

Well.

I'm already crying.

That's a huge GM gift.

Omar Najam (43:32):
Well, then let's go into your bond, then, okay,
perfect, I'm going to set thiscard right here.
Please Keep an eye.
Okay, here we go.
We're on bond now and I've gotelder Beautiful art again.

Dakota Curry did all our art.
They did an incredible job.
This path provides archetypesto represent the different kinds
of people that may have had themost lasting impact.
This can be an impact for goodor for ill, oh okay.
You can just as easily havebeen changed by someone being in
your life from next door orworlds away.
Oh wow.
They may play a pivotal role inyour story, but are you even a

(44:01):
footnote in theirs?
Perhaps not yet Pay attentionto when we ask you to talk about
your elder, a person of greatauthority, with the ear of many.
How did you first catch theireye?
What happened to show them youruntapped potential and
importance?
How did they choose to investin you, and has your opinion of
them changed with time?

Omar Najam (44:22):
Oh, interesting.
Let's get complex with this, ifthat's all right.

Gabe Hicks (44:25):
Yeah please.

Omar Najam (44:27):
Okay, since my original question for legacy had
to do with getting to ametropolitan area, I'm going to
say that this is a person who ismaybe within the government,
like a local council member whoI caught their eye when I was
volunteering at a localcommunity garden and they,

(44:48):
unbeknownst to me, kind oflatched on, were like this will
be someone who I'm going to liketutor, but also I'm using them
to be like look how good I amwith like the youth capitalizing
on that ingenue and I very muchpicked up on that and had a
distaste for it.
But as time is going on, I'mstarting to question my own gut

(45:08):
instinct of but underneath,underneath all the gross politic
, is there actually a core ofgood that this person started
off, maybe where I'm at?
And I'm starting to questionthat.
I'm starting to question myassumption of this is not a good
person.

Okay, we're going to move on to the catalyst
next.
Now, this one's a little bitdifferent.
This one has two options aconstructive and a destructive
option, because not every rogueneeds a tragic backstory.
So I'm going to read you twooptions and you're going to pick
the one you like.

Gabe Hicks (45:35):
Oh, my God, they're making Barry the life of faces
right now.

Omar Najam (45:40):
That's so true.
Here we go.
I've got number 16, incredibleart of this statue, this giant
head that's weeping, a placehidden, a realm revitalized.

So a place hidden, done so to protect the
secret from getting out andendangering others, or a realm
revitalized?
With enough time, almost anywound can be healed.
Do either of those off the topof your head feel like they fit
better with the story thatyou're creating here?
Oh my gosh.

Omar Najam (46:09):
I would say we had the dichotomy of the countryside
, the trees whisperingmetropolitan.
No, the trees don't whisper,but now and the individuals here
rotten to the core.
But as time is going on and I'mgetting to know people, I'm
starting to wonder is that notjust a construct that can
crumble easily?
Is the metropolitan itself notbuilt upon the land of

(46:29):
whispering trees?

So you're going more realm revitalized, yeah
Great.
So then your questions are bywhat force was this land first
damaged and what has been donein the aiding of its mending?
How much time did it take to dosuch work?
Who's championed this endeavor?
What lesson was learned inthose lands, and at what cost?
Now that they're being mended,oh my goodness.

Omar Najam (46:52):
Okay, let's say that the foundation of the
metropolitan was like someonewho wanted to build an oligarchy
, wanted power, wasn'tcomfortable with magic being a
natural entity and wanted to bemore in the social construct of
it, so built a city, said thatI'll protect you from beasts,

(47:12):
creatures on the outside,dangerous sickness.
Let's come together, let'sbuild walls to trap ourselves in
so I can rule this.
And in trying to bring backwhat was there before, it's
starting to physically crack thebuildings.
These like community gardens,like the roots that are growing,
and that's starting to be thefray of how much do we destroy

(47:33):
what's here to bring back whatwas before?
How much should burn?
But also, maybe these arepeople's lives.
I now have to weigh.
But how much do I respect thewhile?
Not maybe the originalphilosophy, but the effect that
has helped people?
Is there a harmony that wecould reach?

And two things can be true at the same time.
There is one loss already,there can be another.
You then, as your character,would weigh both.

Omar Najam (47:59):
Yes, you're right, folks, we did this with three
cards.
That's wild.

Gabe Hicks (48:04):
Here's my favorite part After everyone has their
three cards, you go on to theamalgam phase.
We've already built ourindividual backstories.
This is the phase where you nowinterconnect them.
So if I was also playing withyou, I would have a legacy, a
bond and a catalyst, and theneach player would choose to tie
one of theirs to someone else's.
I drew a bond card because Iwas curious and I got guide and
literally, hearing you talk, Ialmost feel like my guide is one

(48:26):
of the people who was leadingthat destruction of building the
walls, keeping it away, whichmay be that affected why my
character is so internalized.
I don't want to deal with that.
I don't want to touch magic.
Maybe that influences mycharacter, not even being
interested at all, becausethat's what I was raised to
believe, that's what I wasguided to believe, and you and I
have that relation without evenknowing it.

And then all of this gets tied up into a bow.
If I was your storyteller, Inow have places that exist in
the world.
I have NPCs that are now mineto move and breathe in the world
around us, and I have eventsthat are either unfolding, have
unfolded, or the ramificationsof which we continue to play out
.
Those are mine to make theworld build on.
If this was a preexistingmodule we were playing, these

(49:09):
are archetypal enough that youcould fit them to an already
prewritten story.
Or if we're building I'm ahomebrew storyteller.
I really like doing it liketheater of the mind and
imagination.
Together we could build all ofthese worlds out together, and
you are now invested in theplaces in this world, the people
that inhabit them and theevents that are going to be
unshaping over the rest of ourstory.

Okay roll initiative.

Omar Najam (49:32):
This is gorgeous Folks, this is amazing, and
there's so much more in that.

That is literally like one third of the
thing.
There's a lot more in hereabout safety tools and about
adding homebrew rules.
What is a session zero?
For people who are really new?
It takes it through all of it.
It's a multi-tool that you wantto be able to have on you.
You won't need every tool everytime.
I keep saying salt to taste.
You don't need it all at once,but you will have it when you
need it for the story thatyou're playing.

I think, from the perspective of someone who's
relatively new to D&D and whois hungover and barely
caffeinated, that was, first ofall, just a whirlwind to
experience.
I always marvel at Omar when hedoes this shit, but I'm like
what the fuck, dude?
That wasn't written.

you guys I don't think you understand.

Omar was just like yeah, that was incredible.
It's so clear that how itsparks the creativity you really
do set tinder to the kindlingof what's already within in such
a constructive way.
That would have been so usefulto me coming into D&D really not

(50:38):
knowing anything.
For me as a comedian too, mygo-to is like what's the silly?
Haha, what's going?
to get me last because that'swhere I'm comfortable.
But then I get into a placevery quickly, even within a
one-shot.
I'll get into a place where I'mlike, oh, there's no substance
in this character.
He makes puns about pretzels.

That's pretty much all I add you guys.

Then someone's like but what are you fighting
for?
I'm like fuck pretzels.
I'm fighting for more pretzels.

But if you have this, this is going to be a
one-shot.
All of a sudden it's like allright, so the trees are now
starting to take over this townthat you're in, and you have to
fight a war within yourself tofigure out what is worth
protecting.
Is it the things going back orare you protecting things that
exist now?
There's a duality in that wecould play through a four-hour
charity campaign and you'd beable to motivate something

(51:27):
because you care about theworld-building that we just did.

Yeah, yeah, it levels up the quality of the
game.
This is one run.

Gabe Hicks (51:36):
There are 20 prompts in each category 60 prompts
total.

How did you?

guys think of this.
I love running one-shots.

Gabe Hicks (51:45):
Some people come with two paragraphs of back
story.
Some people come with 19paragraphs of back story.
It's really hard to make themall feel like they have an equal
involvement in it, especiallywhen you ask new players what do
you want to be, if they're likeI don't know, "Wizard with a
knife?
, they don't know what thepossibilities are.
But when you're able to asksomeone questions, then they
feel like they can involvethemselves and opt in.
It's not just that they have tothink of what they are, they

(52:07):
get to enjoy who they are andmake it as part of a game and a
discussion.

I had a really long-term campaign that I was
running for a home game.
One of the first versions ofthis that I sort of ran for my
player about four years ago waswe had a new group of players
that were like, ah, combat.
Then I was like, oh my stuff,it's about the shopping episode.
Then it was like, oh, role play.
It was the evolution of peoplegetting more comfortable with

(52:33):
the system.
We got to a point where myranger was like I know I want to
multi-class, but I truly don'tknow if my ranger is going to go
with the gods and become apaladin or if they're going to
lean more into being a RobinHood hero and being with the
thieves.
Cause I can't decide.
I said, well, let's role playit.
I built a place, a person andan event.
We role played through both ofthem.

(52:55):
They went to the paladin sideof things.
They talked to folks.
It was like, ah, all right.
Then I had this thiefling kid.
Be like hey, you can go joinyour shiny order on top of the
city.
That system works for somepeople.
Let me bring you to the realworld.
That's not all glitter and glam.
Let me bring you into the shitwhere people are being abandoned
by the system and we're tryingto fix it from the inside.

(53:15):
You can go do that, but we'redoing the real work here and
people need you here.
My player was like, oh, I diefor this kid.
He wasn't in my life 30 minutesago and now I'm a thief.
I am, I'm right here right now.
So we Both had different toolsthat we wanted to bring.
We've been using these kinds ofthings.
We wanted to bring them into acollection because a lot of

(53:35):
games say create your backstory,figure out how your party met
and figure out where you beginthe adventure.
That's a lot of world buildingto do if you've never done this
before.
So we wanted to collect all thethings that we use and put them
together in a game.

Omar Najam (53:46):
This is just good.
This is just good.
I've had the pleasure ofchatting about games with you
both, and the fact that nowother people get to take those
conversations and have it in aform that they can use, that's
just great man.

Gabe Hicks (53:58):
It's wild seeing someone have no idea what it is
and then, in two minutes, buyall of it that we have.
And it's wild because they'relike they don't ask how much it
costs, they're just like no, Ineed it, I'll take seven.
Yeah, basically, it's just mindblowing.

My favorite thing has been someone will run
a demo.
We've got two demo boothsrunning all weekend and people
will play a game and they'll goout back into PAX and they'll
grab people, bring them back tothe booth and be like, hey, I
brought my friends, don't worry,I got this.
Okay, here's the whole thing,and then they run through the
game and I've never experiencedanything like that.

That makes so much sense to me because I have
a four year old.
I've been introducing him tostory, dice and stuff like that
and then, by virtue of that, myextended family is kind of like
what are you guys doing?
And I'm like, oh, we shouldplay D&D with my cousins that
are 55 years old and they'relike what, and I think they
would be so into it and thiswould be such a great gateway

(54:56):
into.
I have a book for you as well,quickly developing.
Okay, amazing.
I have another weird use casefor this.
Yep, because at first again,low caffeine not enough caffeine
for me and I was like a littledazed.
I was like I thought at firsthe was supposed to answer from
his own real life backstoriessome of these questions Like so
I was like, oh, I wonder whathis memory is a kid and I was
like this would be such a greatdating tool for like answer

(55:20):
these as real questions for yourlife, Like who is the elder in
your life?
Tell us about an ally of yours.

An accomplice in your actual real life.

Yeah, yeah, okay , let's do it.

An accomplice whose goals and desires are
aligned with your own.
What event made you realize thetwo of you were on the same
side?
When did you first come totheir aid and they yours?
What have you faced togetherthus far, and what do you admire
most about the other in yourreal life?
An actual ally.

I'm gonna go with Anand Shah, who is my
business partner, withEffinFunny.
Like we first met across thetable, he came up from the
executive side of the studioworld and I was like the
creative, like always high,trying to pitch ideas.
Guys, don't look at me, why didyou?

Gabe Hicks (56:01):
look only at me.
I was like do you have any weedon you?

That's what I was like that was the begging.
Is what you saw my eyes, no, no.

To our lawyers?
The answer is no.
The answer is no, our lawyer.

They could hear the wink on the podcast.
Well, they can now, but yeah, Ithink it's him.
And what was the last question,the last?

question is what do you admire most about the
other?

Yeah, his absolute tenacity and that his
heart is like so compassed inthe right place, it's so mission
focused.
It's so about like he keepspointing me back towards the why
instead of the like the shinyobject that my ADHD brain wants
All the things he's like, why.
Why are we doing this?
What are we fighting for?

And that just keeps me moored and going in the
right direction, pulling thatneedle towards the front.

So there you go.

Look at that.

Look at that.

Yeah lovely, A session zero game and a dating
game.

Yeah, a dating tool, a therapeutic tool,
Amazing, Hilariously though.

I do love.
I'm really excited for all theways that people are gonna play
the game, the way that we didn'tdesign it.

I love like there are no rules.

As written.
There's a spot in the very endof the book that just says like
your imagination is as untenableand boundless as you will let
it Like, get funky with it.
I want you to break the gameand play it the way that you
want.
We want you to go like drive itlike a stolen car, get weird
right, because it's just Maybenot like that.

Gabe Hicks (57:26):
Drive it like a car that you borrowed.
You paid money for this.
Use it how you would like.

Chethan (57:32):
No, no, commit Grand Theft Auto.

Amazing.
It's gonna be exciting.
So we've got a couple morehours of PAX unplugged.
We are gonna be fulfilling theKickstarter for our backers
before the end of the year,which is very exciting, and then
it is gonna be available inprobably spring or summer of
2024.
Amazing.

Omar Najam (57:51):
Everywhere.

Support your local game stores.
Everywhere you're friendly with, the game stores are.

Omar Najam (57:55):
Thank you both so much for chatting with us.
Thanks for taking the time.

All right, I think.

Oh, we're now from the Speak Easy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think asecond date is an order.

I think I'm done .
We're gonna do a section wherejust a bunch of games are laid
out, and I was drawn to thisgame, omar, yesterday, and
wanted to bring you here becauseto me it looked like Carrom.

(58:27):
So me and my cousin Chethan, wewere like yo, is this just like
Carrom?

Chethan (58:33):
I'm like what is this.

So, for those who don't know, tell them what
Carrom is Chethan.
What is Carrom?

Chethan (58:39):
It's a game that hurts your fingers.
Yes, yes.
That uncles and aunties tend tolove.
Yes, and to be honest, I kindof forget how to play Carrom.
I just have like a positiveassociation.

It's kind of like pool, there's like holes in
the corners and in the sides.
And you are literally flinging.
Instead of a cue ball, you'reflinging these like checkers
pieces that are heavy.
They hurt, and I think, theuncles and aunties really enjoy
the pain they inflict upon theirlittle nephews, their little
niblings.

Chethan (59:11):
It's also true.
I think that they know how toflick them in a way that doesn't
hurt them, but it's somethingthat hasn't been passed down.
Yeah, generation, yeah, theydon't want you to learn For me,
it hurts for you.
Yeah, yeah exactly.

So this game was fun, so we learned it.
It's called Crokinole, ok.
Ok, I turned that into a verbmeaning kind of asshole.
So stopping such a Crokinole issomething I continually said so
maybe we'll carry that forward,I don't know.
But the point is that there'sthis hole in the center, right,
yeah, it's like shuffleboard, ok, if, for those of you who are
familiar with the bar game,shuffleboard, it's got this like

(59:46):
little.
There's like a little sand, youcan see, yeah, this is sand,
and so that helps it slide, andso we each have a quadrant, ok,
and we're all aiming to try toslide it into this hole.
Now there are some like nuancesto the rules.
We go in a turn-based way, it'stwo on two.
Me and you, omar, are on thesame team, we're the green team.
Oh, OK.
We're going against you, Varumand Chethan.

(01:00:07):
Ok, you, Varum and Chethan, aremy cousins and we're going to
kick their asses.
Are you good with that?
Let's do it.
Yeah, OK, great.

Chethan (01:00:16):
Oh.

Sandeep Parikh (01:00:16):
Not bad.
Yeah, that's OK.
Ok, don't get it, that's a miss.
Whoa, whoa, oh, oh, oh, youcan't fly, dude.
Oh, also, nice play, keep themup.
That was absolutely perfect.

Chethan (01:00:29):
He's my cousin, so he has to help me.

Lauren Nepomuceno (01:00:30):
No, that's OK .

Chethan (01:00:32):
Are you kidding me?

No, that was a good play.

Omar Najam (01:00:37):
Oh, I knocked my piece out because that was the
hard.

But you took his out too, so we'll take it.

Chethan (01:00:42):
Yeah, nicely done.
Oh, that was beautifully done.
Oh, that's the mostembarrassing.
Oh, there you go.

There you go, great play.
Wow, that was so good.
This is the last round, rightyeah?

Oh, ok, knocked mine out, knocked his out.

And they hit it Whiffed, whiffed.

Wow, I missed completely.
See and look at how the boardhas changed.
Oh no.

Chethan (01:01:08):
You helped them, you helped them.
This is a hard game.

Yeah, it's tougher than you think.
Ok, if I missed the center,yeah, and I hit, and not only do
I lose this piece, but anyother piece that I hit of ours,
I also lose.

Adam McCrimmon (01:01:23):
Oh yeah, so I have to be very careful to just
hit the center.

Oh, ok, I'm not going to hit any of our pieces.
Well, that's not easy.

Chethan (01:01:29):
It is no longer anyone's game.
It is now our game.

Yeah, wow, that's a great game.

Great game Crokinole.

And we're recording.

Who baby?
Wow, wow.
What a time, what an adventure.
We are now back in.

Dallas.

Texas on a six hour layover on our way back
from Pax Unplugged on our way toLA it was cool to end on the
show Like, basically you and Ihad to bounce because we were on
the same flight and we had tolike, right after our Desi Quest

(01:02:15):
live show.
We were like had to kind ofhigh tail it out of there.
We tried to get cheesesteaks.

We did.
We rushed the cheesesteaks andwe ran through the rain.

We ran through the rain.
We went through three to threedifferent spots in the Reading
Terminal and no cheesesteaks.

No cheesesteaks, they're all closed.
The next time.

Next time.
But we had to run out and itwas cool to like at least for me
.
I feel like it was like wild toend.
It was like a culmination ofthe whole weekend.
Yeah, and that insane, joyful,super fun one shot.

It was just the absolute best.
Before that we got to hang outwith our friends at Dispel Dice
yeah, and get our hands on somered Fancy looking dice.

In credible dice yeah, I got some Murkha, dice I
never knew I was going to be adice guy.
Yeah, I'm learning this aboutmyself.
Look at that.
I'm not a collector in any wayreally.
I'm still very cheap, and sothe idea it feels extravagant to
like really fall in love withdice, like you just like I got
some really fancy dice Now I gotsome really fancy dice.
And those are really reallypretty pretty good dice.

What's the name of my thing?
It was like you got deep spicenine.
Deep spice nine.

I knew it was a pun Spice, deep spice nine.
What did you get?

I got I forget the name of it, but it's a it's if a
bunch of cogs fell into dice asthey were being made Right.

Cause we asked.
I'm sorry I'm blanking on hername now.

We're in cat yeah.

Yes, we asked them like what would be best for
Murkha?
Yes, and she immediately knewexactly the dice.

They're so beautiful .
We got to also play, as youheard.
Check out some.
A game about yarn, yes, whereyou get to play as an auntie.

Yeah, I got to thumb wrestle.

I'm going to take that those lessons about
thumb wrestling away from therest of my life.

That will be influential for the rest of my
life.
I love thumb wrestling and sonow, like a part of me really
does want to try to become athumb, wrestler champion.
you should be Like.
I really want to do like aRocky montage training thing
with with your buddy.

Brent.
With James Brent Isaacs.
Yes!

That would be so awesome.
It might happen.
It might happen.
There might be a kickstarter.
You're a scrapper Sandeep.
I need you.

Chethan (01:04:22):
I need you, I need you, I need you.

I got to work these thumbs out, man.
Yeah, what a wild time.
That was so fun.
What else did we do?
We saw a parade, yeah.

We saw Christmas parade.
We went to a Christmas villageYep.
We saw fight break out and wesaw brawl.

We saw brawl and the best part of the brawl.

Yeah.

Was that we were with some friends who are from
Philly or Cherry.

James Brent Isaacs (01:04:44):
Hill actually you heard from Aalok,
which is another great interviewright.

And then the whole time he was like welcome
to Philly.
He was like yeah, and I waslike the best part was we were
around the ice skating rink,like at this magical, beautiful
city hall.
Yeah, it's like the parade justwent through, there's like
spiced apple cider everywhereand then just this big brawl.
I don't know why I'm laughing,but there was this big brawl all

(01:05:11):
of a sudden breaking out.
Why I'm laughing is because Iwas like, oh, don't worry,
there's security there.
But the security was a part ofthe brawl.
They We're just also upset andbrawling.
And then Aalok was like welcometo Philly, but what a time.
I mean, like I'm just takingaway this like incredibly full
heart feeling of the viscerallyfeeling the impact that

(01:05:33):
DesiQuest is having on people.

Chethan (01:05:35):
Yeah.

That's the thing is like afterwards we had to get
hustled out of the hall we werein because so many people were
just coming up to chat with usand hang out and just and we had
to get a plane to catch, butotherwise I wanted to revel in
that.
It was so wonderful.
It is overwhelming in the bestway.
Yeah, yeah.

There's something about seeing like a 23
year old Indian kid who's likein college, like you see a
version of yourself, and yeah,and they're like talking about
how, how, moved they are and howthey feel like, so like
unlocked in a way yeah.
I think one of the kids said hewas like, I feel like
creatively unlocked.
No wait that way my cousin thatsaid that.
That he said he felt creative.

(01:06:18):
some kids.
He's still a kid to me, he'slike four years younger than me,
but he's still a kid he was,like I feel, creatively unlocked
.

Chethan (01:06:26):
Yeah.

I was like, yeah , hell, yeah.
But then there was that other23 year old kid that was in our.
You weren't there.
It was in a panel with me andAnjali just talking about how
you know, how seen he felt and Iwas like, oh man, this is what
we're doing, this for this isamazing.

It is just absolutely wild, and for us too.
We had a friend who, you know,works with nerdy therapeutics.

Geek Therapeutics, yeah.

And I wanted to just keep it ambiguous and be like
nerd therapy and I was like wecan just say the name.

Yeah, I know we should.
Such a cool mission.

And we were kind of getting to hear about how also,
like a lot of Desi Quest isbeing used to discuss, like
masculinity and Desi culture.

Yeah.
Which I didn't even think about.
We're going to have to havethem on the pod because that was
such a cool conversationtalking about yes, exactly.

Aalok Mehta (01:07:15):
Yeah.

Folks from India coming over here, working in
tech and using D&D to sort ofunlock creativity for them.
And yeah, and it sounds likeDesi Quest is the conduit.

That's what they're sending them to like as
required viewing.

It's just amazing, it's crazy it's only
been out.
The show's been out for two anda half weeks, or three weeks or
something.

Unbelievable yeah.

And I thank you everybody for listening and for
being on this journey with us.

Thank you, and to the sounds of Dallas airport,
waking up.

Yeah.

We wish you well everyone.

Yeah, we'll talk to you later.

Hi, you ready yeah.

Hey, this is Adam from XYZ game labs.
May your Chakras be al ignedand your smothered in chutney.
Yeah, all right, thank you.

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Sandeep & Omar at PAX Unplugged ~ New Gamers, Thumb Warfare, Session Zeroes - (A·B·C·D) Bonus Ep

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Sandeep & Omar at PAX Unplugged ~ New Gamers, Thumb Warfare, Session Zeroes - (A·B·C·D) Bonus Ep