May 3, 2022 • 51 mins
In this special Killer Psyche and American Hostage crossover episode, former FBI agent and criminal profiler Candice DeLong digs into the twisted mind of the real-life Tony Kiritsis. Candice surfaces new details from Tony's past, revealing who he was before this crime and what drove him to kidnap Richard Hall, strap a gun to the back of his head, and hold him hostage for 63 hours.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I'm John Hamm. I played FredHeckman in this season of American Hostage,
and I want to send a bigthank you to everyone who listened to our
podcasts on behalf of our team.Were so grateful that you've taken this journey
with us. Now that you're finishedwith American Hostage, there's another show from
Amazon Music and Wondry I think youshould check out. It's called Killer Psyche.
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On Killer Psyche, retired FBI criminalprofiler Candice Delone dissects the thoughts and
behaviors of the most infamous felons inhistory. In the aftermath of a shocking
crime, people always ask why whowould do something like that? Was it
about power, money, revenge?Was it done on impulse or was it
pre planned? These are the typesof questions that Candace hopes to answer in
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each episode of Killer Psyche. Whileyou're listening, follow Killer Psyche on Apple
Podcasts, Amazon Music, or youcan listen to new episodes early and add
free by joining Wondery Plus. Inthe Wondery app The man that sparked the
fear of a live execution was Tonykuritzis the subject of today's episode. A
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listener note This episode contains adult contentand is not suitable for everyone. Please
be advised. America in the nineteenseventies was in turmoil. The Watergate scandal
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had undermined trust in the government,a trust already made unstable from the war
in Vietnam. Inflation rates and gasprices were skyrocketing. The effects of the
Civil rights movement were still settling in. As these changes took hold, banks
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and corporations were seen as enemies,machines that everyday people were trying to fight
against. The Reflection of this infilm gave way to the rise of the
anti hero. Movies like Taxi Driver, Dog Day Afternoon, Network, and
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One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest scoredbig in the box office, with people
relating to the little guy rising upagainst the man. Tony Caritzus was one
of those people that identified with theseanti heroes. He aspired to be a
character who went up against the machine, and even if he did not win,
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he was willing to go down ina blaze of glory. And that
was the attitude that Tony Curritzus seemedto have. On February eighth, nineteen
seventy seven, when he went tothe offices of the company that held his
mortgage. Tony wired a sought offshotgun to the back of the head of
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the president of the company. Tonywas going to expose the perceived injustices he
felt the company had inflicted on him. To borrow a line from the nineteen
seventy six Film Network, he wasmad as hell and he wasn't going to
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take it anymore. What ensued wasa sixty three hour hostage crisis broadcast live
on TV and radio. One wayor another, Tony Curitzis was determined to
be the hero of his own storyfrom Wondering Tree for I'm Candice DeLong and
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this is Killer Psyche. I've spentfive decades studying people's minds through my work
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as an FBI profiler and psychiatric nurse. I've interviewed lots of murderers, including
serial killers, and the question ofwhy they did it is what I get
asked time and time again. Itis difficult to get a satisfying answer without
diving deep into their mindsets. Sothat's what we're doing, and I will
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give you my best analysis in thisseries of what made them do what they
did? This episode is Tony Caritzisit was freezing cold in Indianapolis, Indiana.
On February eighth, nineteen seventy seven, forty two year old Richard Hall,
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also known as Dick, was runninglate to an appointment with a client
at his downtown office. Dick wasthe president of Hall and Hoddle, a
holding company which had mortgage, construction, and real estate businesses. Dick's father,
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Millard also known as mL, startat Hall and Hoddle in nineteen thirty
and was still chairman of the firm, but his sons had now taken up
running the day to day business.Dick's brothers, William and Jack headed up
the mortgage and construction companies, whileDick ran real estate management and served as
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the company's president. While his fatherwas snowbirding in Florida, Dick took a
meeting with one of his father's mosttroublesome clients, Tony Caritzis. When he
finally arrived for their appointment, Tonywas already waiting. The forty four year
old Tony had a sling on hisleft arm, and with his right arm
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he carried rolled up blueprints. Along white box about five feet in length
sat on a coffee table in frontof him. However, despite the below
freezing temperatures outside, he was notwearing a coat. Dick greeted Tony,
inquired about his injured arm, andthen immediately ushered him into the office so
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they could spread out his blueprints ona large conference table. More than four
years earlier, in December of nineteenseventy two, the Hall's company lent Tony
one hundred and ten thousand dollars todevelop a seventeen acre property on the western
side of Indianapolis. Tony renewed theloan two years later, and then in
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October of nineteen seventy five, hereceived an appraisal valuing the seventeen acres at
five hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. A supermarket chain wanted to buy six
and a half of those acres andoffered Critz's sixty five thousand dollars an acre.
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Since this would give Tony a tremendousprofit and also allow him to keep
ten acres, the Halls encouraged himto accept the offer. Against their advice,
Tony counter offered with a ridiculous number. The chain decided to purchase a
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different property, so he refinanced hismortgage for a third time in February of
nineteen seventy six. This time itwas for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars,
which incorporated the interest on the originalloan. Tony was now left with
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no offers and a lot of debt. The Halls had given Tony two payment
extensions already after his automatic renewal.It had been fifty months since the original
loan was made, and Tony hadnot yet made a single payment except for
a portion of the interest. TheHalls warned him there would be no more
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extensions, and that meant the hundredand thirty thousand dollars Tony owed had to
be paid by March first, nineteenseventy seven. If he could not satisfy
the entire loan, the company wasprepared to foreclose on the property. That
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deadline was now less than three weeksaway. Tony was getting desperate. Once
inside the office, Tony shut thedoor, claiming that his shorts were bothering
him and he needed to adjust them. Dick turned his back to give Tony
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some privacy and unrolled the blueprints onthe conference table. A minute later,
Tony ordered Dick to turn around,and when he did. He saw Tony
had discarded his sling and was pointinga small silver revolver at his face.
Tony told him this is serious,Dick, I'm going to wire a shotgun
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to your neck. Tony ordered Dickto remove his sportcoat and tie and squat
down. He turned up the collaron Dick's shirt and wrapped a wire around
Hall's neck. He then attached thewire to the muzzle of a twelve gage
sawed off shotgun. The barrel waspointed at the base of dick Hal's skull.
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The wire was secured down the lengthof the barrel and hooked onto the
trigger. Chrisis also looped wire aroundthe trigger and a ring on his finger.
Tony called this a dead man's line, because if he were to be
killed, the weight of his bodyfalling would pull the trigger and kill his
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hostage. Here's the deal about sawedoff shotguns. They are illegal in most
states because removing the eighteen to thirtyinch long barrel makes them concealable, and
it also makes them more deadly.Even being in possession of one, let
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alone, threatening someone with it isa federal felony, and that can attract
a penalty of ten years in prisonif an owner wants to alter the barrel
of their shotgun, approval by theATF is mandatory. Tony then picked up
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the office phone and called nine one. At this point, Tony was extremely
volatile. His conversation with the policedispatch operator was filled with profanity. He
told the operator he had a hostageand was going to kill him unless his
demands were met. Tony, however, was hard of hearing in his left
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ear and could not clearly hear thedispatcher. He also could not switch the
handset to his right ear because hisright hand was wired to the trigger of
the gun. So for almost anhour, Tony Kuritzys demanded that two Indian
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police officers he was friendly with cometo his location. Despite the dispatcher repeatedly
asking for an address, Tony didnot answer the question, presumably because he
did not hear it. Tony's frustrationswere compounded when it was discovered that those
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two officers were off duty and thepolice were having trouble tracking them down.
Remember, the cell phone era wasdecades away. No longer willing to wait,
Tony pushed his hostage out of theoffice and he demanded two officers accompany
him outside. The police had cutoff power to the elevators, so Tony
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had to march his hostage down thestairwell outside the building. Multiple police officers
were waiting on the street, unsureof what to do next. Screaming profanities,
Tony threatened to quote blow Hall's headoff if anyone got close to them.
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And I can assure you that's exactlywhat a shotgun blasts that close to
the head would do. I've seenit. He pushed Hall down one of
the main streets in downtown Indianapolis,as officers walked helplessly alongside Tony and Dick,
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directing shocked pedestrians to clear the streetsand go inside. It was seventeen
degrees outside, but both Tony andDick were in short sleeves. When a
rookie officer attempted to draw his weapon, Tony turned to scream at him,
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yanking on the wire caller as heturned. It was at that heart stopping
moment when Tony slipped on a patchof Both men fell to the ground,
but the gun miraculously did not gooff. Shocked, Tony screamed, the
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gun didn't go off. The gundidn't go off. Dick. The gun
didn't go off. Tony seemed asshocked as everyone watching. Frankly, I
think it was a miracle that thegun did not fire. Sheer luck.
Tony was no doubt happy about that, because had that gun got off and
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Hall was killed, Tony would havebeen killed by the police. Immediately getting
up, Tony continued making his waydown the road. The police followed him
for five and a half blocks.At that point, Tony commandeered an empty
police car, left with its enginerunning, door open, and red lights
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flashing. Before he got into thevehicle, Tony removed the handcuffs from the
belt of the officer who was walkingnear him. He then sat down in
the driver's seat, slid over tothe passenger side, and pulled Hall into
the police car. Dick drove eightmiles west to Tony's apartment complex. As
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they exited the vehicle, Tony screamedthat he had booby trapped his apartment with
explosives, so police immediately evacuated allone hundred and ten residents from the complex.
Tony had a one bedroom apartment onthe third floor. Inside he strung
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fishing line throughout, and later itwas discovered he had constructed a Rube Goldberg
type of contraption with a lit candlehovering over two gallons of gasoline. If
vibrations from a gun or force wereapplied to the door, then the candle
would drop into the gasoline. Policefeared there could be dynamite or nitroglycerin present,
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which could spark a gasoline fire andfurther complicate rescue efforts, but fortunately
there was nothing else. Tony handcuffedDick, sat him down at the dining
room table, and turned the wirecollar from the back of his head to
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his face. Tony then propped upthe shotgun on two telephone books, telling
him he was lucky to be takenhostage by a man with a steady hand.
To prove his point, Tony graspedthe shotgun, put his finger on
the trigger, then took it off, and then put his finger back on
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the trigger. He did this severaltimes, teasing his hostage quote see how
steady My hand is. Tony wastying up the line with calls to family
and friends complaining about the media's falsereports about his past. Reporters and the
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general public who were watching the eventsunfold on live television, found Tony's name
listed in the phone book and startedcalling him, which also jammed up the
phone line. Negotiators were finally ableto get through at two thirty PM.
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Tony made four demands. First thatthe mortgage company issue a public apology to
him. Second, they dropped onehundred and thirty thousand dollars loan repayment and
pay him unspecified damages for his painand suffering. Third, he would not
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undergo any psychiatric evaluations. And lastly, he wanted complete immunity for kidnapping Hall
and all related charges. Tony alsolet negotiators know he had enough food to
last a week. He also toldthem he was willing to kill Hall and
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die himself if his demands were notmet. That night, Tony took the
dead Man's line off Dick Hall's neckand forced him to lie down on the
bathroom floor. Then he chained andpadlocked Dick's handcuffs to the base of the
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toilet. At nine PM, anemployee of Dick's company read an apology that
was broadcast on local television. Tony'sbrother, George, went to the apartment
door to ask if he heard theapology. Tony confirmed he did, and
then said he wanted to stop talkingfor the night and sleep on it.
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The next morning, a Wednesday,Tony called into WIBC AM radio station and
asked to speak to Fred Heckman,the station's popular on air news director.
Tony said he was a longtime listenerto Heckman's morning reports and believed he was
an honest man who could correct themedia portrayal of him as a craze lunatic.
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Heckman advised Tony that while the episodewas live on air, he was
recording their conversations for rebroadcast. Hecalmly interviewed Kuritzis about his grievances while also
trying to tamp down Tony's profanity andfolatile rants. Tony believe that Dick's company
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intentionally interfered in his development plans sothey could eventually foreclose on his property and
take it from him. He alsotold Heckman that the statement read to the
public the night before was quote totallyinadequate. Tony and Fred Heckman had seven
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phone calls during the hostage crisis.Heckman later said he was in constant fear
for Dick Hall's life. By noonon Wednesday, Tony let his hostage taught
to negotiators and state police that hehad food and water, and he also
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allowed him to call his wife.In between talking to negotiators and monitoring the
news, Tony held court sessions withHall. He would say, Dick,
We're going to have a little trialhere, and I'm going to be the
prosecutor, the judge, and thejury. You are going to have to
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answer all the questions and I'm goingto convict you. Before taking Dick Hall
as his hostage, Tony prepared overtwo hundred file cards with typed statements for
his mock trial, but they nevergot through them all. Tony also played
other card games with Dick, buthis screaming fits never stopped. At one
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point, he hit Hall on theback of his head with his pistol hard
enough to cause a laceration. Laterthat second day, Tony flew into a
rage when he heard reports that abomb squad was going to enter the building.
To appease Tony, negotiators offered togive him immunity. At seven pm
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on Wednesday, February ninth, negotiatorsslid a one page statement from the Marion
County Prosecutor under the apartment door,granting full immunity from criminal prosecution for the
kidnapping and any other charges. Thatevening, the Deputy District Attorney read the
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terms of the immunity agreement on livetelevision. Still the next morning, the
beginning of day three, Tony remainedhold up in his apartment with Dick.
He was now demanding a promissory notefor five million dollars. Tony's demands were
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escalating, but why wouldn't they Hethought he was getting everything he wanted,
so why not asked for more?Five million dollars in nineteen seventy seven was
asking for the moon. He alsosaid that he needed a key for the
handcuffs Hall was wearing. One ofhis wrists was swollen because the handcuffs were
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on too tight. Police sent akey and then expected Kuritzys to walk out
of the apartment, set his shotgundown in the hallway, and release his
hostage as the kidnapper and negotiators hadagreed, But just thirty minutes later the
negotiations broke down. Tony was angryand won a documentation of the five million
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dollars he would be paid by Hall'scompany. An FBI profiler who was brought
to the scene directed police to createa stage in the lobby of the apartment
building across from Tony's. The profilerbelieved that by assembling the police and media
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there, it would lure Tony out, and he was correct. At ten
twenty pm, Chritzis unexpectedly marched Hallout of his apartment, with the dead
man's lines still around Hall's neck andthe barrel of the shotguns still aimed at
Hall's head. Tony pushed Hall intothe recreation room, where all the media
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was gathered. He shouted at reportersto turn on their cameras. While the
cameras were rolling, Tony handed alist of his grievances to Dick Hall and
demanded he read them. Barely ableto talk with the wire around his neck,
Dick started reading, but Tony gotangry because he felt that Dick's delivery
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was too monotony Tony clearly needed tobe in control of everything. He ripped
the paper out of Dick's hands andsaid, I'll read it. I'm the
one who was called a kidnapper.I'm a goddamn national hero, and don't
you forget it. It took almostthirty minutes for Tony to finish reading because
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he kept stopping to curse the Hallfamily and berate the media. During his
speech, Tony was extremely emotional,tearing up at times. To those in
the room, it looked like hewas going to shoot Hall. Tony even
told them quote, I've had agun stuck in this cocksucker's head for three
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days. They've had one stuck inmine for four and a half years.
I hope this gun doesn't go off. I'm having too much fun. Some
TV stations then dropped their live broadcast, believing Tony was going to kill Hall
on live televi vision. Finally,satisfied that all of his demands were met,
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Churitsus and Hall were led down thehall by police to the command post.
There, the police used wirecutters toremove the wire around Hall's neck.
He was immediately whisked away and transportedto the hospital. He was shaken,
fatigued, and dehydrated. Tony hadonly fed him one plate of salami and
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cheese and only permitted him to usethe bathroom once during his sixty three hours
of captivity, but he was alive, still holding the shotgun. Tony announced
to the room full of police officers, quote, I've wanted to fire this
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thing ever since I've had it.Then he walked to an open patio door,
pointed the barrel of the shotguns skyward, and pulled the trigger. Police
quickly grabbed Tony and arrested him.Tony was surprised and called it a cheapass
shot. Tony, you lied.You said you would let that man go
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before you came down. The mediahearing the shot feared the worst, but
miraculously, after sixty three hours ofsheer terror, everyone was still alive.
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Anthony Tony Krisis was born August thirteenth, nineteen thirty two to Greek immigrant parents.
He had three brothers, a sister, and one half brother. He
was reportedly a sickly child. Atthe age of seven, Tony began working
at his parents' store selling ice cream. He claimed his father had him working
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twelve hour days when he was justnine years old. Although he was a
good student, his after school jobleft him barely any time to do homework
or socialized with his peers. Inhigh school, he worked up to seventy
hours a week while his classmates wereoutdating and playing ball. He claimed he
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was a seventy five pound kid pushinga hundred and fifty pound cart. His
father was physically abusive, but Tonytestified he still loved him. His mother,
who was much more nurturing, diedof cancer at the age of forty
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one. When his mother died,Tony was distraught. He put his high
school ring in her coffin, and, according to one of his brothers,
lost his faith in God. Aftergraduating high school, he went into the
army, where he became an expertin demolition, explosives, and booby traps
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at the rank of corporal. Heeven became a small arms instructor at West
Point for a time. Tony wasnot a big man. He stood only
five foot seven and weighed approximately onehundred and fifty pounds. He did not
seem to have any romantic relationships.He never married, and later revealed he
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never even had a long term relationship. After leaving the military, Tony joined
one of his brothers and sister inmanaging his family's mobile home park in Indianapolis.
Residents there recalled him walking around thepark with a shotgun and enforcing the
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five mile per hour speed limit.Tony was rigid about which workmen were permitted
on his property, threatening all whomhe felt had trespassed. In nineteen sixty
seven, he had a disagreement withtwo of his brothers over money. He
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shot at them but luckily missed.He was arrested for assault and battery with
intent to kill, but the detectivewho arrested him was a friend and the
charges were minimized. Tony was released. The very next year, Tony barricaded
himself and his invalid sister inside herhome for two days at gunpoint. He
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wanted to leave the family business anddemanded fifty five thousand dollars he felt his
family owed him. They agreed togive him the money, which he eventually
used to purchase the seventeen acres.The family never pressed charges against him.
His sister even said after the incident, we loved Tony. On December nineteenth,
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nineteen seventy two, Tony took outa loan from Dick Hall's company.
The company had not wanted to loanTony the money, but Dick's father,
m l believed in Tony and championedhis cause. He liked the idea that
Tony was a self starter, andhe wanted to support him. Tony worked
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on clearing the land himself, butbecame protective of his property, just as
he did at his family's mobile homepark. In nineteen seventy four, police
were called when Tony wielded an actsat utility workers installing a gas pipe running
underneath his land. Once again,he stayed out of jail. After Tony
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received offers on his seventeen acres fromthe grocery store chain, he reportedly acted
paranoid and suspicious. This type ofparanoia is reminiscent of what we covered in
our episode on Andrew Kehoe. Iput Tony in the same category as him.
Both men were middle aged when theyexploded, and furiously angry with the
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man who they perceived as cheating themand destroying their lives. Both of them
developed paranoia, both blamed everyone butthemselves for their financial problems, and neither
could control their anger. Both Kehoeand churritzis at explosive tempers and could not
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be reason with, and both tookvery desperate measures to make their point that
the establishment was the demon, notthem. One factor that could have contributed
to this is the male climac terricor what is commonly known as male menopause,
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and yes, that's a real thing. It has also been referred to
as the middle age crazies. Accordingto the American Psychiatric Association, male climac
terric is a hypothetical period in somemen's lives that can be compared to female
menopause. It appears to be associatedwith declines in the levels of various hormones
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such as testosterone. The National HealthService reports that end i quote, some
men develop depression, loss of sexdrive, erectile dysfunction, and other physical
and emotional symptoms when they reached theirlate forties to early fifties. Other symptoms
common in ment this age are moodswings and irritability, loss of muscle mass
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that redistribution, a general lack ofenthusiasm or energy difficulties, sleeping, insomnia,
poor concentration, and short term memoryloss. These symptoms can interfere with
everyday life and happiness, so it'simportant to find the underlying cause and work
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out what can be done to resolveit. Tony's claimed that the Halls cheated
him out of his land deal wasone hundred faults, and Tony later told
one of his police officer friends hehad been planning the kidnapping for three and
a half years, at a timewhen he still had loan extensions granted to
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him. In fact, Tony evenrearranged his apartment to mirror Hall's office layout
to prepare for the big event.Later, he told the staff at Hall
and Hotel that he was getting surgeryon his arm. It was a ploy
to add validity to the sling hewore the day he took Dick Hall hostage,
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the sling that hid his gun.So what's the answer as to why
Tony committed that spectacular abduction and hostagetaking? What was going on with him?
Or should I say in him?Doctor Stephen Diamond, a forensic psychologist
and an expert in the psychology ofmass murderers, evaluated violent offenders for fifteen
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years for the California court system.He came to a few conclusions about this
type of criminal mind. Quote forme, the one underlying force influencing most
violent behavior is pathological anger, rage, resentment, and embitterment. By pathological,
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he means anger that is way overthe top, excessive, destructive,
debilitating, and abnormal. He goeson to say, quote violent offenders in
general, with the possible exceptions ofthose who commit impulsive and unpremeditated crimes of
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passion or suffer from some sudden medicalcrisis or neurological impairment. Don't just snap.
They slowly and insiduously bend, stewsimmer, and then boil before erupting
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or exploding. And that is aperfect description of Tony chrisis. Some of
these offenders are very good at hidingtheir feelings and behaviors of rage and resentment
from those around them, but Tonydidn't hide his feelings. He broadcasts them
to the world. Diamond explains thatfor these types of criminals quote, their
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embitterment builds over time, eventually becomingtoxic and pathological. As this happens,
the embitterment begins to become a fantasy, sometimes intrusive, such as an unwanted
obsession. The fantasy itself the contentof the fantasy is of exacting revenge on
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the people the killer. In thiscase, the offender perceives is to blame
for his problems. Tony blamed Haul'smortgage company for his failure to pay his
obligations. If the offender's fantasy continuesto grow wild, unchecked or ignored,
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and there was no evidence Tony soughthelp, the vengeful and sometimes murderous fantasies
turn into a reality, and aswe've already discussed, Tony had a habit
of holding people hostage at gunpoint toget the money he believed they owed him.
It's not unusual to see evidence orpremeditation and significant planning of the massacres
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or in Tony's case, of thehostage taking by these type of violent offenders,
primarily because they are in most casesnot seriously mentally ill or legally insane.
Tony knew what he had planned waswrong, and he said as much
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many times. Make no mistake,Tony Chitzis was not overtly psychotic. To
be sure, he was disturbed,but he was not out of touch with
reality. He was not hearing voices. He was in control of his behavior.
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That said, I would not wantto be in his crosshairs. But
there's another psychological disorder that I thinkfits Tony, paranoid delusional disorder. People
with this very serious disorder appear tobe in the grips of a delusion.
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Perhaps you recall this from our twopart episode on Susan Polk. She was
normal eighty percent of the time andtwenty percent of the time believed her husband
was out to kill her. Butthese people are not in the grips of
a bizarre delusion, such as RichardChase in episode eleven, he believed his
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blood was turning to dirt and hehad to replace it. That is known
as a bizarre delusion, and onlyseriously mentally ill ie insane people suffer from
that. I think Tony Crisis isin the Susan Polk category of someone suffering
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from paranoid delusional disorder. But Tony'stwenty percent of the time being paranoid and
delusional made him, as it didSusan Polk, very dangerous. Only hearing
Tony's side of the story on radioand TV, some of the public began
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to regard him as a hero.They believed that, like the movies of
the time, Tony was sticking itto the man. Strangers started a fund
for his defense, some of themempathizing because they too had been foreclosed on
by a bank. They did notsee Dick Hall as a person. They
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saw him as a symbol of greedand their mind, Tony Crisis was David
to Dick Hall's goliath. Tony wascharged with the felonies of armed kidnapping,
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inflicting physical injury in the commission ofa crime, commission of a crime of
violence while armed, obtaining a signatureby threat, and armed robbery. His
bail was set at seven hundred andfifty thousand dollars. He was soon transferred
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to Marion County Jail. Another chargeof disorderly conduct was added and bail increased
to eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The deputy county prosecutors stated there was
never any intention of honoring the termsof immunity, which were signed under durests.
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During his arraignment, the judge orderedhim to have a psychiatric evaluation,
something Tony had adamantly opposed during hostagenegotiations. It's entirely possible, since Tony
was a big fan of TV andmovies, that he was afraid a psychiatric
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evaluation would lead to a lobotomy,such as the antihero in One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nest suffered. Tony wantedto plead not guilty and say that because
Hall and company had swindled him,his actions were justified. His lawyer told
him that was not of defense andwould get him life in prison. At
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his lawyer's insistence, Tony finally agreedto plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
In the late seventies in Indiana,it was the prostitution's burden to prove
the defendant was sane, not liketoday, where the defendant must prove they
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are insane. Tony Kuritzz's trial beganOctober sixth, nineteen seventy seven. The
jury of seven men and five womenwere sequestered in a hotel near the courthouse.
The defense attorney told the jury therewas no fraud on the part of
Hall and Hoddle Mortgage Company, andKuritz his act of taking Hall hostage was
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irrational. The defense also called overtwenty witnesses, mostly friends and family,
who testified Tony was not acting normallyduring the hostage taking. Dick Hall took
the witness stand the first day.He stoically recounted how Churitz has repeatedly threatened
(44:25):
to quote, blow my head offif I disobeyed instructions, fainted, or
slipped. Jurors might have found thecalm and unemotional Dick Hall cold and detached
on the stand, whereas Tony weptopenly and often throughout the trial. If
(44:45):
you recalled during the hostage taking,Tony would alternate between screaming and yelling and
venting his rage to crying, andhere he is doing it in court.
This is called being emotionally labile.Who else's labile? A two year old?
(45:07):
One minute they're happy, the nextminute they're screaming. When Tony took
the witness stand, it was clearthat he was extremely paranoid, but that
does not get the legal definition ofinsane. Lots of people are paranoid and
they don't commit crimes. Most ofthe nine mental health experts who testified at
(45:32):
the trial believe Tony. Wassane,a court of pointed psychiatrist, said that
based on his observations, Tony wasnot insane and he fell into the classification
of paranoid personality, not psychotic orneurotic. Type. Today that is known
(45:53):
as paranoid delusional disorder. Tony alsohad deep rooted feelings of insecurity and inferiority.
Only one psychiatrist believed from the timehe spent observing Tony that he was
insane. Of course, Tony didnot fully cooperate with the evaluations. On
(46:19):
October twenty first, nineteen seventy seven, the jury came back and delivered a
verdict of not guilty by reason ofinsanity. A female juror hugged Tony after
the trial. When the verdict wasannounced over the PA system during the Indiana
Pacers basketball game, the crowd reportedlycheered Tony Caritzis had achieved folk hero status
(46:47):
in a certain percentage of the public'smind. Still, politicians and much of
America were outraged by the verdict.The Indiana legislature immediately decided to rewrite the
laws so that the burden of proofof insanity switched to the defendant. The
(47:09):
next year, laws around the countryfollowed suit, but Tony crisis was not
able to walk free. On Novemberninth, the judge once again ordered him
to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, whichTony still refused to do. He was
(47:31):
held in contempt of court and wassent to a psychiatric hospital. Life was
not as kind to Dick as itwas to Tony. In nineteen seventy eight,
a year after the kidnapping, hisfather mL died. His two brothers
(47:52):
followed suit, and both passed awayprematurely in nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty
one due to climbing interest rates andthe much held Although fallacious claim that his
family swindled Tony. Dick's company experienceda precipitous downturn. With his business failing,
(48:15):
Dick almost lost his family home toforeclosure. He started drinking heavily and
in nineteen ninety two was arrested fora dui. He then joined Alcoholics Anonymous
and became sober. However, hiswife filed for divorced shortly after. Dick
(48:36):
Hall refused to discuss his ordeal withTony Curitzis with anyone until twenty seventeen,
when he finally released a book onthe subject. His children encouraged him to
write his story to help him heal. The PTSD he must have suffered would
have been profound because Tony was thoughtto be dangerous and would not submit to
(49:04):
any psychevaluations. He was held incontempt of court, but rather than serving
time in prison for that, hespent eleven years in custody of state mental
hospitals. If he had cooperated andundergone an evaluation, he probably would have
been released in a fraction of thattime. But the truth clearly is Tony
(49:30):
was not a well man. Hefinally agreed to be examined in nineteen eighty
seven, and a judge released himin nineteen eighty eight after the state failed
to prove he was still a dangerto the public. Tony Carizus passed away
from natural causes in January of twothousand and five. He died at the
(49:54):
age of seventy four. From Wonderingand tree Fort Media, This is Killer
Psyche. I'm your host Candice c. Long. This episode was written and
(50:16):
produced by Lisa Amerman and Julie Burke, edited by Joshua Morrales and Maxwell Carney,
with research and editing assistants from Annelou Our senior audio producer is Tom
Monicer. Renee Leavek is production manager, and Hailey Mandelburg is production coordinator.
(50:38):
Brandon Clark and Lindsay Whistler. Ourproduction assistants and the line producer is Oscar
Meto. Our executive producers are KellyGarner and Lisa Amerman form Treeport and Marshall
Louie and Aaron o'clarity for Wondering.The series is produced by Wondering and Freeport
(50:59):
Media. Me
I'm John Hamm. I played FredHeckman in this season of American Hostage,
and I want to send a bigthank you to everyone who listened to our
podcasts on behalf of our team.Were so grateful that you've taken this journey
with us. Now that you're finishedwith American Hostage, there's another show from
Amazon Music and Wondry I think youshould check out. It's called Killer Psyche.
(00:20):
On Killer Psyche, retired FBI criminalprofiler Candice Delone dissects the thoughts and
behaviors of the most infamous felons inhistory. In the aftermath of a shocking
crime, people always ask why whowould do something like that? Was it
about power, money, revenge?Was it done on impulse or was it
pre planned? These are the typesof questions that Candace hopes to answer in
(00:45):
each episode of Killer Psyche. Whileyou're listening, follow Killer Psyche on Apple
Podcasts, Amazon Music, or youcan listen to new episodes early and add
free by joining Wondery Plus. Inthe Wondery app The man that sparked the
fear of a live execution was Tonykuritzis the subject of today's episode. A
(01:08):
listener note This episode contains adult contentand is not suitable for everyone. Please
be advised. America in the nineteenseventies was in turmoil. The Watergate scandal
(01:30):
had undermined trust in the government,a trust already made unstable from the war
in Vietnam. Inflation rates and gasprices were skyrocketing. The effects of the
Civil rights movement were still settling in. As these changes took hold, banks
(01:52):
and corporations were seen as enemies,machines that everyday people were trying to fight
against. The Reflection of this infilm gave way to the rise of the
anti hero. Movies like Taxi Driver, Dog Day Afternoon, Network, and
(02:13):
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest scoredbig in the box office, with people
relating to the little guy rising upagainst the man. Tony Caritzus was one
of those people that identified with theseanti heroes. He aspired to be a
character who went up against the machine, and even if he did not win,
(02:38):
he was willing to go down ina blaze of glory. And that
was the attitude that Tony Curritzus seemedto have. On February eighth, nineteen
seventy seven, when he went tothe offices of the company that held his
mortgage. Tony wired a sought offshotgun to the back of the head of
(03:00):
the president of the company. Tonywas going to expose the perceived injustices he
felt the company had inflicted on him. To borrow a line from the nineteen
seventy six Film Network, he wasmad as hell and he wasn't going to
(03:20):
take it anymore. What ensued wasa sixty three hour hostage crisis broadcast live
on TV and radio. One wayor another, Tony Curitzis was determined to
be the hero of his own storyfrom Wondering Tree for I'm Candice DeLong and
(03:53):
this is Killer Psyche. I've spentfive decades studying people's minds through my work
(04:18):
as an FBI profiler and psychiatric nurse. I've interviewed lots of murderers, including
serial killers, and the question ofwhy they did it is what I get
asked time and time again. Itis difficult to get a satisfying answer without
diving deep into their mindsets. Sothat's what we're doing, and I will
(04:40):
give you my best analysis in thisseries of what made them do what they
did? This episode is Tony Caritzisit was freezing cold in Indianapolis, Indiana.
On February eighth, nineteen seventy seven, forty two year old Richard Hall,
(05:02):
also known as Dick, was runninglate to an appointment with a client
at his downtown office. Dick wasthe president of Hall and Hoddle, a
holding company which had mortgage, construction, and real estate businesses. Dick's father,
(05:23):
Millard also known as mL, startat Hall and Hoddle in nineteen thirty
and was still chairman of the firm, but his sons had now taken up
running the day to day business.Dick's brothers, William and Jack headed up
the mortgage and construction companies, whileDick ran real estate management and served as
(05:46):
the company's president. While his fatherwas snowbirding in Florida, Dick took a
meeting with one of his father's mosttroublesome clients, Tony Caritzis. When he
finally arrived for their appointment, Tonywas already waiting. The forty four year
old Tony had a sling on hisleft arm, and with his right arm
(06:13):
he carried rolled up blueprints. Along white box about five feet in length
sat on a coffee table in frontof him. However, despite the below
freezing temperatures outside, he was notwearing a coat. Dick greeted Tony,
inquired about his injured arm, andthen immediately ushered him into the office so
(06:36):
they could spread out his blueprints ona large conference table. More than four
years earlier, in December of nineteenseventy two, the Hall's company lent Tony
one hundred and ten thousand dollars todevelop a seventeen acre property on the western
side of Indianapolis. Tony renewed theloan two years later, and then in
(07:00):
October of nineteen seventy five, hereceived an appraisal valuing the seventeen acres at
five hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. A supermarket chain wanted to buy six
and a half of those acres andoffered Critz's sixty five thousand dollars an acre.
(07:23):
Since this would give Tony a tremendousprofit and also allow him to keep
ten acres, the Halls encouraged himto accept the offer. Against their advice,
Tony counter offered with a ridiculous number. The chain decided to purchase a
(07:43):
different property, so he refinanced hismortgage for a third time in February of
nineteen seventy six. This time itwas for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars,
which incorporated the interest on the originalloan. Tony was now left with
(08:05):
no offers and a lot of debt. The Halls had given Tony two payment
extensions already after his automatic renewal.It had been fifty months since the original
loan was made, and Tony hadnot yet made a single payment except for
a portion of the interest. TheHalls warned him there would be no more
(08:31):
extensions, and that meant the hundredand thirty thousand dollars Tony owed had to
be paid by March first, nineteenseventy seven. If he could not satisfy
the entire loan, the company wasprepared to foreclose on the property. That
(08:52):
deadline was now less than three weeksaway. Tony was getting desperate. Once
inside the office, Tony shut thedoor, claiming that his shorts were bothering
him and he needed to adjust them. Dick turned his back to give Tony
(09:13):
some privacy and unrolled the blueprints onthe conference table. A minute later,
Tony ordered Dick to turn around,and when he did. He saw Tony
had discarded his sling and was pointinga small silver revolver at his face.
Tony told him this is serious,Dick, I'm going to wire a shotgun
(09:37):
to your neck. Tony ordered Dickto remove his sportcoat and tie and squat
down. He turned up the collaron Dick's shirt and wrapped a wire around
Hall's neck. He then attached thewire to the muzzle of a twelve gage
sawed off shotgun. The barrel waspointed at the base of dick Hal's skull.
(10:05):
The wire was secured down the lengthof the barrel and hooked onto the
trigger. Chrisis also looped wire aroundthe trigger and a ring on his finger.
Tony called this a dead man's line, because if he were to be
killed, the weight of his bodyfalling would pull the trigger and kill his
(10:28):
hostage. Here's the deal about sawedoff shotguns. They are illegal in most
states because removing the eighteen to thirtyinch long barrel makes them concealable, and
it also makes them more deadly.Even being in possession of one, let
(10:52):
alone, threatening someone with it isa federal felony, and that can attract
a penalty of ten years in prisonif an owner wants to alter the barrel
of their shotgun, approval by theATF is mandatory. Tony then picked up
(11:13):
the office phone and called nine one. At this point, Tony was extremely
volatile. His conversation with the policedispatch operator was filled with profanity. He
told the operator he had a hostageand was going to kill him unless his
demands were met. Tony, however, was hard of hearing in his left
(11:39):
ear and could not clearly hear thedispatcher. He also could not switch the
handset to his right ear because hisright hand was wired to the trigger of
the gun. So for almost anhour, Tony Kuritzys demanded that two Indian
(12:00):
police officers he was friendly with cometo his location. Despite the dispatcher repeatedly
asking for an address, Tony didnot answer the question, presumably because he
did not hear it. Tony's frustrationswere compounded when it was discovered that those
(12:20):
two officers were off duty and thepolice were having trouble tracking them down.
Remember, the cell phone era wasdecades away. No longer willing to wait,
Tony pushed his hostage out of theoffice and he demanded two officers accompany
him outside. The police had cutoff power to the elevators, so Tony
(12:46):
had to march his hostage down thestairwell outside the building. Multiple police officers
were waiting on the street, unsureof what to do next. Screaming profanities,
Tony threatened to quote blow Hall's headoff if anyone got close to them.
(13:07):
And I can assure you that's exactlywhat a shotgun blasts that close to
the head would do. I've seenit. He pushed Hall down one of
the main streets in downtown Indianapolis,as officers walked helplessly alongside Tony and Dick,
(13:28):
directing shocked pedestrians to clear the streetsand go inside. It was seventeen
degrees outside, but both Tony andDick were in short sleeves. When a
rookie officer attempted to draw his weapon, Tony turned to scream at him,
(13:48):
yanking on the wire caller as heturned. It was at that heart stopping
moment when Tony slipped on a patchof Both men fell to the ground,
but the gun miraculously did not gooff. Shocked, Tony screamed, the
(14:13):
gun didn't go off. The gundidn't go off. Dick. The gun
didn't go off. Tony seemed asshocked as everyone watching. Frankly, I
think it was a miracle that thegun did not fire. Sheer luck.
Tony was no doubt happy about that, because had that gun got off and
(14:37):
Hall was killed, Tony would havebeen killed by the police. Immediately getting
up, Tony continued making his waydown the road. The police followed him
for five and a half blocks.At that point, Tony commandeered an empty
police car, left with its enginerunning, door open, and red lights
(15:01):
flashing. Before he got into thevehicle, Tony removed the handcuffs from the
belt of the officer who was walkingnear him. He then sat down in
the driver's seat, slid over tothe passenger side, and pulled Hall into
the police car. Dick drove eightmiles west to Tony's apartment complex. As
(15:28):
they exited the vehicle, Tony screamedthat he had booby trapped his apartment with
explosives, so police immediately evacuated allone hundred and ten residents from the complex.
Tony had a one bedroom apartment onthe third floor. Inside he strung
(15:48):
fishing line throughout, and later itwas discovered he had constructed a Rube Goldberg
type of contraption with a lit candlehovering over two gallons of gasoline. If
vibrations from a gun or force wereapplied to the door, then the candle
would drop into the gasoline. Policefeared there could be dynamite or nitroglycerin present,
(16:15):
which could spark a gasoline fire andfurther complicate rescue efforts, but fortunately
there was nothing else. Tony handcuffedDick, sat him down at the dining
room table, and turned the wirecollar from the back of his head to
(16:36):
his face. Tony then propped upthe shotgun on two telephone books, telling
him he was lucky to be takenhostage by a man with a steady hand.
To prove his point, Tony graspedthe shotgun, put his finger on
the trigger, then took it off, and then put his finger back on
(16:57):
the trigger. He did this severaltimes, teasing his hostage quote see how
steady My hand is. Tony wastying up the line with calls to family
and friends complaining about the media's falsereports about his past. Reporters and the
(17:19):
general public who were watching the eventsunfold on live television, found Tony's name
listed in the phone book and startedcalling him, which also jammed up the
phone line. Negotiators were finally ableto get through at two thirty PM.
(17:40):
Tony made four demands. First thatthe mortgage company issue a public apology to
him. Second, they dropped onehundred and thirty thousand dollars loan repayment and
pay him unspecified damages for his painand suffering. Third, he would not
(18:00):
undergo any psychiatric evaluations. And lastly, he wanted complete immunity for kidnapping Hall
and all related charges. Tony alsolet negotiators know he had enough food to
last a week. He also toldthem he was willing to kill Hall and
(18:22):
die himself if his demands were notmet. That night, Tony took the
dead Man's line off Dick Hall's neckand forced him to lie down on the
bathroom floor. Then he chained andpadlocked Dick's handcuffs to the base of the
(18:44):
toilet. At nine PM, anemployee of Dick's company read an apology that
was broadcast on local television. Tony'sbrother, George, went to the apartment
door to ask if he heard theapology. Tony confirmed he did, and
then said he wanted to stop talkingfor the night and sleep on it.
(19:11):
The next morning, a Wednesday,Tony called into WIBC AM radio station and
asked to speak to Fred Heckman,the station's popular on air news director.
Tony said he was a longtime listenerto Heckman's morning reports and believed he was
an honest man who could correct themedia portrayal of him as a craze lunatic.
(19:38):
Heckman advised Tony that while the episodewas live on air, he was
recording their conversations for rebroadcast. Hecalmly interviewed Kuritzis about his grievances while also
trying to tamp down Tony's profanity andfolatile rants. Tony believe that Dick's company
(20:02):
intentionally interfered in his development plans sothey could eventually foreclose on his property and
take it from him. He alsotold Heckman that the statement read to the
public the night before was quote totallyinadequate. Tony and Fred Heckman had seven
(20:22):
phone calls during the hostage crisis.Heckman later said he was in constant fear
for Dick Hall's life. By noonon Wednesday, Tony let his hostage taught
to negotiators and state police that hehad food and water, and he also
(20:45):
allowed him to call his wife.In between talking to negotiators and monitoring the
news, Tony held court sessions withHall. He would say, Dick,
We're going to have a little trialhere, and I'm going to be the
prosecutor, the judge, and thejury. You are going to have to
(21:07):
answer all the questions and I'm goingto convict you. Before taking Dick Hall
as his hostage, Tony prepared overtwo hundred file cards with typed statements for
his mock trial, but they nevergot through them all. Tony also played
other card games with Dick, buthis screaming fits never stopped. At one
(21:34):
point, he hit Hall on theback of his head with his pistol hard
enough to cause a laceration. Laterthat second day, Tony flew into a
rage when he heard reports that abomb squad was going to enter the building.
To appease Tony, negotiators offered togive him immunity. At seven pm
(22:00):
on Wednesday, February ninth, negotiatorsslid a one page statement from the Marion
County Prosecutor under the apartment door,granting full immunity from criminal prosecution for the
kidnapping and any other charges. Thatevening, the Deputy District Attorney read the
(22:22):
terms of the immunity agreement on livetelevision. Still the next morning, the
beginning of day three, Tony remainedhold up in his apartment with Dick.
He was now demanding a promissory notefor five million dollars. Tony's demands were
(22:47):
escalating, but why wouldn't they Hethought he was getting everything he wanted,
so why not asked for more?Five million dollars in nineteen seventy seven was
asking for the moon. He alsosaid that he needed a key for the
handcuffs Hall was wearing. One ofhis wrists was swollen because the handcuffs were
(23:11):
on too tight. Police sent akey and then expected Kuritzys to walk out
of the apartment, set his shotgundown in the hallway, and release his
hostage as the kidnapper and negotiators hadagreed, But just thirty minutes later the
negotiations broke down. Tony was angryand won a documentation of the five million
(23:37):
dollars he would be paid by Hall'scompany. An FBI profiler who was brought
to the scene directed police to createa stage in the lobby of the apartment
building across from Tony's. The profilerbelieved that by assembling the police and media
(24:00):
there, it would lure Tony out, and he was correct. At ten
twenty pm, Chritzis unexpectedly marched Hallout of his apartment, with the dead
man's lines still around Hall's neck andthe barrel of the shotguns still aimed at
Hall's head. Tony pushed Hall intothe recreation room, where all the media
(24:25):
was gathered. He shouted at reportersto turn on their cameras. While the
cameras were rolling, Tony handed alist of his grievances to Dick Hall and
demanded he read them. Barely ableto talk with the wire around his neck,
Dick started reading, but Tony gotangry because he felt that Dick's delivery
(24:49):
was too monotony Tony clearly needed tobe in control of everything. He ripped
the paper out of Dick's hands andsaid, I'll read it. I'm the
one who was called a kidnapper.I'm a goddamn national hero, and don't
you forget it. It took almostthirty minutes for Tony to finish reading because
(25:15):
he kept stopping to curse the Hallfamily and berate the media. During his
speech, Tony was extremely emotional,tearing up at times. To those in
the room, it looked like hewas going to shoot Hall. Tony even
told them quote, I've had agun stuck in this cocksucker's head for three
(25:41):
days. They've had one stuck inmine for four and a half years.
I hope this gun doesn't go off. I'm having too much fun. Some
TV stations then dropped their live broadcast, believing Tony was going to kill Hall
on live televi vision. Finally,satisfied that all of his demands were met,
(26:06):
Churitsus and Hall were led down thehall by police to the command post.
There, the police used wirecutters toremove the wire around Hall's neck.
He was immediately whisked away and transportedto the hospital. He was shaken,
fatigued, and dehydrated. Tony hadonly fed him one plate of salami and
(26:32):
cheese and only permitted him to usethe bathroom once during his sixty three hours
of captivity, but he was alive, still holding the shotgun. Tony announced
to the room full of police officers, quote, I've wanted to fire this
(26:52):
thing ever since I've had it.Then he walked to an open patio door,
pointed the barrel of the shotguns skyward, and pulled the trigger. Police
quickly grabbed Tony and arrested him.Tony was surprised and called it a cheapass
shot. Tony, you lied.You said you would let that man go
(27:18):
before you came down. The mediahearing the shot feared the worst, but
miraculously, after sixty three hours ofsheer terror, everyone was still alive.
(27:52):
Anthony Tony Krisis was born August thirteenth, nineteen thirty two to Greek immigrant parents.
He had three brothers, a sister, and one half brother. He
was reportedly a sickly child. Atthe age of seven, Tony began working
at his parents' store selling ice cream. He claimed his father had him working
(28:18):
twelve hour days when he was justnine years old. Although he was a
good student, his after school jobleft him barely any time to do homework
or socialized with his peers. Inhigh school, he worked up to seventy
hours a week while his classmates wereoutdating and playing ball. He claimed he
(28:41):
was a seventy five pound kid pushinga hundred and fifty pound cart. His
father was physically abusive, but Tonytestified he still loved him. His mother,
who was much more nurturing, diedof cancer at the age of forty
(29:02):
one. When his mother died,Tony was distraught. He put his high
school ring in her coffin, and, according to one of his brothers,
lost his faith in God. Aftergraduating high school, he went into the
army, where he became an expertin demolition, explosives, and booby traps
(29:26):
at the rank of corporal. Heeven became a small arms instructor at West
Point for a time. Tony wasnot a big man. He stood only
five foot seven and weighed approximately onehundred and fifty pounds. He did not
seem to have any romantic relationships.He never married, and later revealed he
(29:49):
never even had a long term relationship. After leaving the military, Tony joined
one of his brothers and sister inmanaging his family's mobile home park in Indianapolis.
Residents there recalled him walking around thepark with a shotgun and enforcing the
(30:10):
five mile per hour speed limit.Tony was rigid about which workmen were permitted
on his property, threatening all whomhe felt had trespassed. In nineteen sixty
seven, he had a disagreement withtwo of his brothers over money. He
(30:32):
shot at them but luckily missed.He was arrested for assault and battery with
intent to kill, but the detectivewho arrested him was a friend and the
charges were minimized. Tony was released. The very next year, Tony barricaded
himself and his invalid sister inside herhome for two days at gunpoint. He
(31:00):
wanted to leave the family business anddemanded fifty five thousand dollars he felt his
family owed him. They agreed togive him the money, which he eventually
used to purchase the seventeen acres.The family never pressed charges against him.
His sister even said after the incident, we loved Tony. On December nineteenth,
(31:25):
nineteen seventy two, Tony took outa loan from Dick Hall's company.
The company had not wanted to loanTony the money, but Dick's father,
m l believed in Tony and championedhis cause. He liked the idea that
Tony was a self starter, andhe wanted to support him. Tony worked
(31:45):
on clearing the land himself, butbecame protective of his property, just as
he did at his family's mobile homepark. In nineteen seventy four, police
were called when Tony wielded an actsat utility workers installing a gas pipe running
underneath his land. Once again,he stayed out of jail. After Tony
(32:13):
received offers on his seventeen acres fromthe grocery store chain, he reportedly acted
paranoid and suspicious. This type ofparanoia is reminiscent of what we covered in
our episode on Andrew Kehoe. Iput Tony in the same category as him.
Both men were middle aged when theyexploded, and furiously angry with the
(32:38):
man who they perceived as cheating themand destroying their lives. Both of them
developed paranoia, both blamed everyone butthemselves for their financial problems, and neither
could control their anger. Both Kehoeand churritzis at explosive tempers and could not
(33:02):
be reason with, and both tookvery desperate measures to make their point that
the establishment was the demon, notthem. One factor that could have contributed
to this is the male climac terricor what is commonly known as male menopause,
(33:24):
and yes, that's a real thing. It has also been referred to
as the middle age crazies. Accordingto the American Psychiatric Association, male climac
terric is a hypothetical period in somemen's lives that can be compared to female
menopause. It appears to be associatedwith declines in the levels of various hormones
(33:50):
such as testosterone. The National HealthService reports that end i quote, some
men develop depression, loss of sexdrive, erectile dysfunction, and other physical
and emotional symptoms when they reached theirlate forties to early fifties. Other symptoms
common in ment this age are moodswings and irritability, loss of muscle mass
(34:17):
that redistribution, a general lack ofenthusiasm or energy difficulties, sleeping, insomnia,
poor concentration, and short term memoryloss. These symptoms can interfere with
everyday life and happiness, so it'simportant to find the underlying cause and work
(34:39):
out what can be done to resolveit. Tony's claimed that the Halls cheated
him out of his land deal wasone hundred faults, and Tony later told
one of his police officer friends hehad been planning the kidnapping for three and
a half years, at a timewhen he still had loan extensions granted to
(35:05):
him. In fact, Tony evenrearranged his apartment to mirror Hall's office layout
to prepare for the big event.Later, he told the staff at Hall
and Hotel that he was getting surgeryon his arm. It was a ploy
to add validity to the sling hewore the day he took Dick Hall hostage,
(35:28):
the sling that hid his gun.So what's the answer as to why
Tony committed that spectacular abduction and hostagetaking? What was going on with him?
Or should I say in him?Doctor Stephen Diamond, a forensic psychologist
and an expert in the psychology ofmass murderers, evaluated violent offenders for fifteen
(35:54):
years for the California court system.He came to a few conclusions about this
type of criminal mind. Quote forme, the one underlying force influencing most
violent behavior is pathological anger, rage, resentment, and embitterment. By pathological,
(36:17):
he means anger that is way overthe top, excessive, destructive,
debilitating, and abnormal. He goeson to say, quote violent offenders in
general, with the possible exceptions ofthose who commit impulsive and unpremeditated crimes of
(36:39):
passion or suffer from some sudden medicalcrisis or neurological impairment. Don't just snap.
They slowly and insiduously bend, stewsimmer, and then boil before erupting
(36:59):
or exploding. And that is aperfect description of Tony chrisis. Some of
these offenders are very good at hidingtheir feelings and behaviors of rage and resentment
from those around them, but Tonydidn't hide his feelings. He broadcasts them
to the world. Diamond explains thatfor these types of criminals quote, their
(37:25):
embitterment builds over time, eventually becomingtoxic and pathological. As this happens,
the embitterment begins to become a fantasy, sometimes intrusive, such as an unwanted
obsession. The fantasy itself the contentof the fantasy is of exacting revenge on
(37:51):
the people the killer. In thiscase, the offender perceives is to blame
for his problems. Tony blamed Haul'smortgage company for his failure to pay his
obligations. If the offender's fantasy continuesto grow wild, unchecked or ignored,
(38:13):
and there was no evidence Tony soughthelp, the vengeful and sometimes murderous fantasies
turn into a reality, and aswe've already discussed, Tony had a habit
of holding people hostage at gunpoint toget the money he believed they owed him.
It's not unusual to see evidence orpremeditation and significant planning of the massacres
(38:39):
or in Tony's case, of thehostage taking by these type of violent offenders,
primarily because they are in most casesnot seriously mentally ill or legally insane.
Tony knew what he had planned waswrong, and he said as much
(39:01):
many times. Make no mistake,Tony Chitzis was not overtly psychotic. To
be sure, he was disturbed,but he was not out of touch with
reality. He was not hearing voices. He was in control of his behavior.
(39:22):
That said, I would not wantto be in his crosshairs. But
there's another psychological disorder that I thinkfits Tony, paranoid delusional disorder. People
with this very serious disorder appear tobe in the grips of a delusion.
(39:44):
Perhaps you recall this from our twopart episode on Susan Polk. She was
normal eighty percent of the time andtwenty percent of the time believed her husband
was out to kill her. Butthese people are not in the grips of
a bizarre delusion, such as RichardChase in episode eleven, he believed his
(40:07):
blood was turning to dirt and hehad to replace it. That is known
as a bizarre delusion, and onlyseriously mentally ill ie insane people suffer from
that. I think Tony Crisis isin the Susan Polk category of someone suffering
(40:30):
from paranoid delusional disorder. But Tony'stwenty percent of the time being paranoid and
delusional made him, as it didSusan Polk, very dangerous. Only hearing
Tony's side of the story on radioand TV, some of the public began
(40:50):
to regard him as a hero.They believed that, like the movies of
the time, Tony was sticking itto the man. Strangers started a fund
for his defense, some of themempathizing because they too had been foreclosed on
by a bank. They did notsee Dick Hall as a person. They
(41:13):
saw him as a symbol of greedand their mind, Tony Crisis was David
to Dick Hall's goliath. Tony wascharged with the felonies of armed kidnapping,
(41:47):
inflicting physical injury in the commission ofa crime, commission of a crime of
violence while armed, obtaining a signatureby threat, and armed robbery. His
bail was set at seven hundred andfifty thousand dollars. He was soon transferred
(42:07):
to Marion County Jail. Another chargeof disorderly conduct was added and bail increased
to eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The deputy county prosecutors stated there was
never any intention of honoring the termsof immunity, which were signed under durests.
(42:30):
During his arraignment, the judge orderedhim to have a psychiatric evaluation,
something Tony had adamantly opposed during hostagenegotiations. It's entirely possible, since Tony
was a big fan of TV andmovies, that he was afraid a psychiatric
(42:50):
evaluation would lead to a lobotomy,such as the antihero in One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nest suffered. Tony wantedto plead not guilty and say that because
Hall and company had swindled him,his actions were justified. His lawyer told
him that was not of defense andwould get him life in prison. At
(43:15):
his lawyer's insistence, Tony finally agreedto plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
In the late seventies in Indiana,it was the prostitution's burden to prove
the defendant was sane, not liketoday, where the defendant must prove they
(43:36):
are insane. Tony Kuritzz's trial beganOctober sixth, nineteen seventy seven. The
jury of seven men and five womenwere sequestered in a hotel near the courthouse.
The defense attorney told the jury therewas no fraud on the part of
Hall and Hoddle Mortgage Company, andKuritz his act of taking Hall hostage was
(44:01):
irrational. The defense also called overtwenty witnesses, mostly friends and family,
who testified Tony was not acting normallyduring the hostage taking. Dick Hall took
the witness stand the first day.He stoically recounted how Churitz has repeatedly threatened
(44:25):
to quote, blow my head offif I disobeyed instructions, fainted, or
slipped. Jurors might have found thecalm and unemotional Dick Hall cold and detached
on the stand, whereas Tony weptopenly and often throughout the trial. If
(44:45):
you recalled during the hostage taking,Tony would alternate between screaming and yelling and
venting his rage to crying, andhere he is doing it in court.
This is called being emotionally labile.Who else's labile? A two year old?
(45:07):
One minute they're happy, the nextminute they're screaming. When Tony took
the witness stand, it was clearthat he was extremely paranoid, but that
does not get the legal definition ofinsane. Lots of people are paranoid and
they don't commit crimes. Most ofthe nine mental health experts who testified at
(45:32):
the trial believe Tony. Wassane,a court of pointed psychiatrist, said that
based on his observations, Tony wasnot insane and he fell into the classification
of paranoid personality, not psychotic orneurotic. Type. Today that is known
(45:53):
as paranoid delusional disorder. Tony alsohad deep rooted feelings of insecurity and inferiority.
Only one psychiatrist believed from the timehe spent observing Tony that he was
insane. Of course, Tony didnot fully cooperate with the evaluations. On
(46:19):
October twenty first, nineteen seventy seven, the jury came back and delivered a
verdict of not guilty by reason ofinsanity. A female juror hugged Tony after
the trial. When the verdict wasannounced over the PA system during the Indiana
Pacers basketball game, the crowd reportedlycheered Tony Caritzis had achieved folk hero status
(46:47):
in a certain percentage of the public'smind. Still, politicians and much of
America were outraged by the verdict.The Indiana legislature immediately decided to rewrite the
laws so that the burden of proofof insanity switched to the defendant. The
(47:09):
next year, laws around the countryfollowed suit, but Tony crisis was not
able to walk free. On Novemberninth, the judge once again ordered him
to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, whichTony still refused to do. He was
(47:31):
held in contempt of court and wassent to a psychiatric hospital. Life was
not as kind to Dick as itwas to Tony. In nineteen seventy eight,
a year after the kidnapping, hisfather mL died. His two brothers
(47:52):
followed suit, and both passed awayprematurely in nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty
one due to climbing interest rates andthe much held Although fallacious claim that his
family swindled Tony. Dick's company experienceda precipitous downturn. With his business failing,
(48:15):
Dick almost lost his family home toforeclosure. He started drinking heavily and
in nineteen ninety two was arrested fora dui. He then joined Alcoholics Anonymous
and became sober. However, hiswife filed for divorced shortly after. Dick
(48:36):
Hall refused to discuss his ordeal withTony Curitzis with anyone until twenty seventeen,
when he finally released a book onthe subject. His children encouraged him to
write his story to help him heal. The PTSD he must have suffered would
have been profound because Tony was thoughtto be dangerous and would not submit to
(49:04):
any psychevaluations. He was held incontempt of court, but rather than serving
time in prison for that, hespent eleven years in custody of state mental
hospitals. If he had cooperated andundergone an evaluation, he probably would have
been released in a fraction of thattime. But the truth clearly is Tony
(49:30):
was not a well man. Hefinally agreed to be examined in nineteen eighty
seven, and a judge released himin nineteen eighty eight after the state failed
to prove he was still a dangerto the public. Tony Carizus passed away
from natural causes in January of twothousand and five. He died at the
(49:54):
age of seventy four. From Wonderingand tree Fort Media, This is Killer
Psyche. I'm your host Candice c. Long. This episode was written and
(50:16):
produced by Lisa Amerman and Julie Burke, edited by Joshua Morrales and Maxwell Carney,
with research and editing assistants from Annelou Our senior audio producer is Tom
Monicer. Renee Leavek is production manager, and Hailey Mandelburg is production coordinator.
(50:38):
Brandon Clark and Lindsay Whistler. Ourproduction assistants and the line producer is Oscar
Meto. Our executive producers are KellyGarner and Lisa Amerman form Treeport and Marshall
Louie and Aaron o'clarity for Wondering.The series is produced by Wondering and Freeport
(50:59):
Media. Me
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