Episode 7 | To Kill or Not to Kill

Tony pressures the tyrannical banking system to issue him an apology letter to read at the press conference, as Fred mentally prepares to meet Tony in person... on national television.

Starring: Jon Hamm, Joe Perrino, Dylan Baker, Carla Gugino and Becky Ann Baker
Directed by: Shawn Christensen
Written by: CD Carpenter

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Episode Transcript

(00:05):
American Hostage is an Amazon Original andCriminal Content production. This podcast is based
on a true story of a hostagecrisis that took place in Indianapolis in nineteen
seventy seven. Listener discretion is advisedepisode seven to kill or not to kill?

(00:27):
When the media hypes a hostage situationup to the national stage. Why
would someone want to tune in becausethey want to see the victim live?
I'm not so sure. Hello,this is Sally Kilmer with WIBC. I

(00:50):
was wondering if I could talk toyour program director. Yeah, i'll hold,
thank you. Sow Is Cliffs stilldown at the apartment. Yeah,
he's gonna try to get into thepolice conference. That never letting him in
there. Who are you talking tonow? WR has me on hold?
Or what about WRTV? There nexttelevision? Jesus Christ. He wants the

(01:11):
box? They did? Fred leavewith Malone and Peterson. They're in the
back. Thank you? All right? Fred, look listen up. So
we're gonna set you up in theearpiece so you'll be able to hear everything.
Sally's got w THHR on the phone. She'll let me know if NBC
has run. What about the otheraffiliates? She's going one at a time.
You know, you really fuck thisup, didn't you. We're not

(01:33):
giving the maritime Yeah, you saidthe same thing to us. No,
I didn't say the same thing toyou. You talk to Tony without consulting
us, and then okay, hey, hey, hey, all right,
all right, all right, let'skeep it together. It doesn't do us
any good to fight. If we'reready, we need to head out after
you. I'd just like to reiteratemy oak that you shouldn't be going down
there. Fred the only one Tonyfeels comfortable with. That'll mean a lot.

(01:56):
When Fred's head comes a lit'll befine. Let's just see Gallagher comes
up with the Chief's been a regularmastermind up to this point. Jim Right,
I forgot we learned fighting. NBC'srunning it, no no delay.
You're kidding checking with WRTV. Roy. There's no way we can broadcast this

(02:16):
ship. That's one thing to haveit on the radio, but television.
I don't see why they'd have to. There won't be a TV in the
room. He'd never even know thecamera's room. Well, that's something we
can bring up the Gallagher. It'llonly take one more on in the crowd
to say something. ABC's running itno delay. The affiliates are already making
their decision. Well, luckily we'renot holding to the whims of the press.
Can we have to have press?Their attorney will be set off and

(02:38):
if they're there, who's to saythey won't flip on the cameras. Fucking
lost a suit from Woo detective fromthe force for disobeying never stick. Yeah
you're so sure. Yeah, youwant to take the IMBD up against network
lawyers. Grow up, Leo,they're affiliates. CBS is running it with
delay unless they find out ABC andNBC are those are the folks you can

(03:00):
trust not to flip those cameras on. Good luck to you and your lawsuit,
Leo. Well you want me tosay, Tony, he's gonna write
me a letter to read on TV. He's gonna tell everybody what you all

(03:20):
did to me. He's gonna assumeresponsibility, and he's gonna tell me that
he's sorry. Anything else, He'sgonna write that I'm clear of my debt.
Every single penny. The lawyer whoaren't negotiate it, I want to
hear it from him. It doesn'tmean shit until I hear it from him.
Okay, Tony, Daddy, loveyou, Dicky. He does.

(03:45):
He's slow to show it, buthe does give me your whole fucking profession,
nice cushy job. And you sayhe's slow to show it. Fuck
you Bill? Hello, Dad?Are you okay? Hey? Listen right

(04:06):
now? On Tony's here and hewants us to come up and put him
on the phone. Hang on,that's that's not a good idea. Put
him on the phone, right Dad. Trust me, we have been working
together for four years. I shouldtalk to It's not a good idea.
Listen. I just called because Tonywants something from us. What does he

(04:30):
want? He wants a letter fromthe company that says we did him wrong
and that we're clearing his debt andnow you committed slander and that we committed
slander. Do you hear me,Dad? Do you think you could get

(04:53):
that for us? He's gonna readit on TV if you can get it
to chief before tomorrow at eight pm. That's when that's when we're going on.
Dick. We didn't do anything wrong. I know. We gave him
two extensions. We tried to workwith him the best we could know.
It could be legal ramifications. Thiscould open a big can of worms for

(05:15):
a stink. Past clients we foreclosedon might eues this as a precedent for
their own cases. I'm just I'mtelling you what Tony said. It's what
Tony wants. It'll be the endof us. What should I tell him?
Dad? I'll have Marcy type somethingup and get it to Chief Gallagher

(05:40):
soon. Okay, I'll tell himthis is veg end of us. I
know that. All right. I'llsee you tomorrow. I love you,
Dad. Yeah, you two'll staysafe, okay, by sez al right?

(06:05):
It good? That makes it easierin all of us. How did
you get here? Pal? Howwould have come down to this police outside
ready to gasp me and kill you? I don't know, Tony. Five
million dollars done the hard way?Can you believe it? No, Tony,

(06:30):
I should have let you talk tothat preacher. Y'all could have prayed
together. You're still praying, Dick, Yes, Tony, you're still praying
for me. Yeah, you knowwhat makes me sick. And when people
think praying makes them good? Doyou think you're a good man? Dick?

(06:54):
All right, all right, Dick, hold on, you're you're crying.
What's this, Dick, Dick,I hain't gone pal, what's going
on with you? I do try, Tony, I do try to be

(07:16):
good. It's important to me.I don't I don't want to cheat anyone.
I always want to do right.I know what people's money means to
them. I know, I knowit's hard for people. All right,
all right, I believe you,Dick. I believe you try. But

(07:38):
it's human nature. People want tobe good more than they want to do
good things, and it just don'twork that way. You want to play
cards, sure, Tony, Fredtell me, hiya, could you just

(08:13):
do me a favorite? Shoot thatoffwork? Just give me a second?
Sweetheart? Is there any t Whydon't I make some? Okay? Thank
you? The Chief made an executivedecision today to send in a SWAT team

(08:39):
while we were broadcasting. They we'regonna gas Tony and take out the bomb
before it could detonate. Well,but by the way, he has a
gun wired up. Yeah, Iknow. Luckily we were able to convince
him to pull the SWAT guys back, but Tony figured out what they were
doing and went ballistic. Now he'sdemanding we put him on TV, so
everyone can see him, and thecops can't try anything funny. That's an

(09:01):
awful idea, And you're not theonly one who thinks so, Barbe.
He wants me to come down tothe apartment tomorrow. I think he wants
me to be part of the show. Well, no, I don't have
the privilege of saying no, hanFred, I want you to listen to
what I'm saying to you. Youare not going down there, Barbe.

(09:22):
Don't barbe me. Are you outof your mind? I Am not going
to sit here and watch my husbandbe blown to bits on national television.
You're not listening to me. They'regoing to kill him. I just got
out of a meeting with Leo Malone, Chief Gallagher, and the FBI.
They made a deal with the press. They can broadcast, but if it
starts going sideways, and we're almostcertain it will, they're going to cut

(09:46):
the feed and shoot Tony in thehead. It's a dead man's line.
Yeah. They think they can jamthe shotgun before it goes off. In
order for that to work, theyhave to get him out in the open.
That's why they agreed to the pressconference. But they're gonna kill him.
Barbara I've been trying to get downto the bottom of why he called

(10:07):
me. There plenty other stations intown, other reporters held better reporters.
He could have had TV from thebeginning. He's a fan, Fred.
No, No, I don't thinkthat was it. He called me because
he didn't want to die. Ithink he knew before he even started putting
his weapon together that this would bethe last thing he'd ever do, and

(10:31):
then he changed his mind. Hedidn't want to die, so he called
me. I can't save him anymore. He thinks I'm his best friend,
so I should be there at theend. Promise me you won't get too
close to him tomorrow. You gotit. How do you feel about France?

(10:56):
I've heard it's very pretty. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Do
you know I hear you. Theysay you can't enjoy it unless you stay
for at least a month. Ohyeah, Will you put on your favorite
record? Why? Because I justwant to be your husband right now?

(11:24):
M m m mmm, Hello,Fred, it's Tony Freak either. Yeah.

(12:01):
Can you just give me a secondto call you back? Tony,
I'm in betting my wit one minute, one minute he's calling the house now.
Yeah, apparently. Just give mea minute. Hey, Tony,

(12:31):
how you fred? We almost hada close one today. Huh yeah,
yeah, it looks like it now. Don't tell anyone, but I took
the line of Nick's Nick and I'mletting him sleep a little. That's real
nice to get, Tony. Butdon't get any ideas because I have my
thirty car behind point right square.You get any ideas you're gonna bring me

(12:52):
something tomorrow? Bring you something,yeah, like a gift to commemorate our
meeting. Well, Tony, you'rethe one getting five million dollars. I
kind of thought you'd be getting mesomething. Oh yeah, that's a that's
a good point man. Aside fromthat, you're the best thing that's come

(13:13):
out of this mister Egman from fanof friend. I thank you, sir.
Well it's been a treat you thinkso, sure, Tony, I'm
about tomorrow. What's that It's gonnaget crazy? You think so? I

(13:33):
think there's a good chance, Tony. And if it does, will you
trust me? Trusting trust me?Trust being that I'll get you what you
need and we'll keep everyone safe.Trust me that I'll be there for you,
writing till the end down till theend. Yeah, the end of

(13:56):
the press conference. Absolutely, loveyou brother, I love you too,
Tony. Oh right, can youget back here? Bows for me?
Okay, bail and I'll see youlater. I'll see it, Tony,
Radio Indiana, WIBC Indian. It'stwenty six past eight at w IBC,

(14:22):
Kevin. You have an update onsomething in the newsman for us? Yes,
scary on the phone right now.We have our crew who is out
at the scene on the west side, Kevin. As we had indicated at
eight o'clock, there has been arather dramatic change in the tone of the
situation out here where we find outnow in substance that perhaps the negotiations are
reaching a very new stage. Ourown news director, Fred Heckman, who

(14:45):
is now no longer on the storyas a journalist, he is involved in
the story now, is perhaps oneof the principal negotiators. Fred just arrived
here at Building seven where we havebeen operating from, and Mark, you
had a chance to speak with Fredmore recently than I did in your own
line, having talked to Tony thismorning on two occasions. Now, do
you feel that do you feel thatTony is receptive to you. Are you

(15:07):
satisfied that he would be willing totrust you. Well, I think that
we can get to the bottom ofthis without anyone getting hurt. So my
answer to your question is I don'tknow. All right, back up,
back up now, folks. We'reout in this space right here, yep

(15:31):
here, back going up, pleaseand thank you. M all right.
I need your full attention, fullattention right here, folks. Hey,
okay, my name is Detective LeoMalone. Now listen, we're gonna be
honest with you here. We donot know what's going to be happening tonight,
so anything and everything we can doto mitigate any harm or danger we're

(15:56):
doing, which means we need help. I need quick vocal confirmation from the
press on the following stipulations. Thepress will in no way engage with the
subject of tonight's ordeal, mister TonyKuritzis, by instigating him in any kind
of physical or vocal manner. Agree, yeah, okay. The press will

(16:19):
employ ethical broadcast journalism and keep inconsideration the viewing audience of their programming.
Agree all right. Now, We'regonna give you all a sign that says
kill the cameras Officer Mark Smith.Mark Smith came here, Mark Officer Mark
Smith will be behind us, andwhen he raises his hand, the cameras

(16:40):
go off and the cameras will shutoff. Do you understand why do we
need that sign before? If itgoes sideways, it's important that you stay
behind the line at all times.If any reporter or member of the press
acts in a way that triggers violence, or if they do not adhere to
the stipulation provided in this speech,they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent

(17:03):
of the law. Do you understandwe will bury you, so don't try
it. That movement upstairs all right, listen, we've got movement, so
stay behind the line. Be responsible. Where's Erica Potter? Erica right here,
detective you have those papers for him? Yes? Where's Fred? Yeah,

(17:25):
I'm back here. Leo, yougot your ear piece? Yeah,
I got it all said Fred.I want you to go with the officer
here. It's gonna take you upstairsto Tony real quick. Now you've all
been briefed on just what you needto be doing, and that's the only
warning you get. What kind ofmood is he in? Mad? There's

(17:52):
a change of pace you know ifhe slept, no idea, cove it
up. All right, we're comingall right, we gotta here you go,
Thank you, Tony, Fred.Yeah, Tony, it's me Fred.
Fred. I'm glad you made it. I can't let you in.

(18:14):
Well I understand that, Tony,but I'm gonna come out now. I'm
right for my close up. Okay, Tony, just you'll be careful step
back for me, Fred, heis coming out. Okay, everybody,
let's just be real cautious now.We don't want to set him off.
Hey there, Fred, Hey,Tony, how are you? Yest haafman?
Mister Hall? What do you think? Fred? You want to go
downstairs and be a TV star?Well that sounds good to me. This

(18:37):
is it, buddy, it's ourmoment. It's hard not to get emotional.
Okay, this is it. Okay, this is it. All right,
Move Dick, move Fred. Youlook pale. You need some sun,
I guess. So. Look atall these fuckers, Fred, just
look at him. They're true.They're happy little pigs, aren't they.

(18:59):
They're just doing their job, Tony, And I'm doing mine, Pal,
I'm doing mine. Listen, he'son his way down. You remember what
I told you, do you understandhey? Back behind the left, behind
the last the goddamn cameras are.I'm gonna show you something. Where's my

(19:22):
letter? Where's the letter? Askfor you right here? Who are you?
Eric? Erica Potter, female citylawyer? Yea, everybody, listen
up, listen up. Dick's gonnaread us something. This is my time.
Now you're hearing me. This ismy time. Here we go next

(19:44):
time. On American Hostage, theseason finale, I wanted on all three
national channels. I've got friends allover the country. We do not have
seven seconds. Ran. You maybe exposed to graphic sounds. Those of
you with small children, escort themout of the rooms. Mort tangoes up.
Shoot Tony in the back of thehead to some facing good enough to
die Bred Heckman is very close tothe actual way from Nedda. Don't don'ts

(20:07):
me. Paul is closing his eyes. It's like he's bracing for something that
made it so easy the sheet.What are you doing, Tony? I
want you to look around. There'sa hundred guns in this room, and
they'd go right through me to getto you. American Hostage is an Amazon

(20:30):
original and Criminal content production written byC. D. Carpenter, directed by
Sean Christiansen, Produced by Adam Volerichand Brendan Hubbard. Executive produced by John
Hamm, Sean Christiansen and Gabriel Mason, starring John Hamm, Carla Guccino,

(20:51):
Joe Perino, Dylan Baker, andBecky Ann Baker, with additional performances by
James O'Connor, Christina Brucado, MaraCasson, Michael Dreyer, Michael Thomas,
C. D. Carpenter. Sounddesigned by Brandon Jones, composed by Darren
Morsey, Editing by Thomas Beach,Sean Christiansen and Adam Voolridge. Recording and

(21:15):
engineering by Dave Williams, Mixing,mastering and additional editing by Nick Messidi.
I d Reads by Natalie Prass forAmazon Music. Executive producers are Morgan Jones
and Dave Easton. Senior producer isEliza Mills. Special thanks to Jacob Braunstein,
Phil Sanchez, Chris Davis, JackParker, Marcelino, v Yalpondo,

(21:42):
Stephanie Walknein Blad, Norman Vanessa Rebert, Sam Petherbridge, Cale Bittner, Alice
Zoe Trevor McNeil ty, Jacobsen,Rich Sherman, Marshall, Louie, w
IBC, Wish TV, and CreativeArtists Agency