August 2, 2023 • 53 mins
Get ready for a heartwarming journey back to our seminary days with my lifelong buddy, Larry McGurer, as we reminisce about the gospel of Luke 10:2 and how it shaped our faith. Larry generously opens up about his path to faith, guided by his pastor and youth group leader's wisdom, and his discovery of Concordia, which kindled his passion for missions. We marvel at the miraculous work of the Holy Spirit and the profound impact of discipleship and encouragement in shaping our faith journeys.
Switching gears, we transport you from the seminary to the ski slopes. Larry takes us through some knee-deep snow, unraveling his skiing adventures in the picturesque town of Breckenridge, Colorado. He talks about the Summit Mission Alliance's transformative impact on his community and his call to serve Christ in Breckenridge, taking innovative steps to spread the Gospel in his broader community. We explore how he weaved his love for the community with the Gospel's outreach, thoroughly changing his life's course.
Lastly, we turn our attention towards a unique mission, The Leadville Project. This initiative saw 30 individuals from six different congregations unite to conduct community projects. We ponder on the potential of a bivocational missionary serving the Good Shepherd congregation, and how such an opportunity can connect one to something larger than oneself. Wrapping things up, we emphasize the significance of humility, building relationships, and accepting people as they are, without necessarily agreeing with their actions. In essence, this conversation serves as a testament to the transformative power of love and acceptance, mirroring the teachings of Jesus.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the brand new American
Reformation Podcast.
We long to see the widerAmerican Christian Church fall
more in love with Jesus bylearning from the practices of
the early church and other erasof discipleship multiplication.
We want to hear from you, makesure you comment and leave a
review, wherever you're watchingor listening, to tell us what
God is doing in your life or howyou feel about today's
(00:25):
conversation.
Lord, have your way in us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast.
I pray, wherever you're takingthis in, the joy of the Lord is
your strength, that you'releaning into your baptismal
identity, that the hope andwonder of simply being a human
in 2023, this day, is increasingin your heart and leading you
to spaces where you can dreamnew dreams, namely to reach new
(00:57):
people with the gospel of JesusChrist.
So today, my wonderful guest,known as brother for a long,
long time, we go back toseminary days.
Larry McGurr was my center inour beautiful year I think it
was your second year of theseminary and it was my first and
(01:18):
we won that flag footballchampionship.
It was glorious.
I remember hitting you for atouchdown Everybody's eligible,
larry, you catch it down at yourshoe tops.
It was so much fun.
So from that day to you doinglife and ministry with my dad,
pastor Dave Alman, for a numberof years, and now you've been up
(01:38):
the hill in Breckenridge,colorado, beautiful, beautiful
area of God's creation, mygoodness, and you're doing some
very, very creative things.
So first, before we get into alittle bit of your story, just
generally, this is our openingquestion.
So we're praying forReformation in the American
Christian Church in 2023 andbeyond.
Buddy, thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, no, no, it's good.
And just back to that, thattouchdown.
I might have trapped that ball.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I might have, but it didn't get called.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Anyway.
So no, the way I'm praying andI'm joining some other church
leaders in doing this, but whatI refer to as 10-2 prayers,
right, so at 10-02 am everymorning I'm praying for the Lord
of the harvest to send laborersinto His harvest.
That's obviously based on Luke,chapter 10, verse two, where
(02:36):
that's Jesus' command right, theother Lord's prayer right that
he gives us.
Yeah, so praying inspecifically, and we see that in
our church body.
Just we look at the numbers,the number of guys retiring and
number of guys coming out of theseminary, and there's a
(02:57):
discrepancy.
And then in this community, inthe central Colorado mountains,
we see a need for church workers, both ordained in lay, lay
workers in this community.
So, yeah, that's how it's goingfor me.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I love it and how Luke 10 has been such a staple
chapter for me over the last 15years, jesus sending out the 72,
the kind of 70, the boomerangeffect of they go out.
Jesus has prayed the Lord ofthe harvest and then he's
modeling what the Lord of theharvest wants, right, right, and
(03:36):
sending out the 70 who go out.
They cast out demons, proclaimthe kingdom of God.
They do all these miracles.
That's one of my favoritestories because they come back.
Even the demons are subject tous in your day.
Jesus said that.
He's like guys, come on, don'tget the big head, just rejoice
your days are written in thebook of life, right, and so it's
so formative about thecharacter, the humble character.
This isn't your work, this ismy work in and through you.
(03:56):
So I love that.
That's kind of a life verse foryou.
We share that indeed.
So tell us how you developedyour heart for missions and kind
of caring for the wider church.
Yeah, every pastor kind of hasthat.
Larry, you know this abilityand I think it's a gifting of
the Holy Spirit to think, yeah,it's about my church, Christ in
(04:17):
prayer, Christ Greenfield,whatever, but it's about the
wider, wider church.
How did that kind of develop inyou?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know from early days, like the
way I came to faith, like insome ways it's kind of your
typical Lutheran story.
I was baptized as an infant.
My parents were prettyunchurched.
Might go to church Christmasand Easter for the early part of
my life, right, and my mom diddrop me off for Sunday school
(04:48):
when I was younger and she wouldgo and run errands and shopping
and all that sort of stuff,right.
But through that, through thewater and the word spirits stuck
right and he worked in my heart.
And there came a time when I wasgoing into eighth grade, where
we're standing in front of mygrandmother's son room, my mom
(05:12):
and I and grandmother, a fewother people were there and mom
said, hey, the church sentsomething saying, hey, you're
invited to confirmation andwould you like to come?
And you know, I was going intoeighth grade, had lots of other
things going on in lifedistractions, whatnot, whatnot,
(05:36):
and for whatever reason.
Well, specifically because thespirit was working in me that I
said, yeah, why not?
You know, connect with theconfirmation.
And I love my pastor there.
You went to Annapolis.
He's an officer in the MarineCorps, so I kind of looked up to
him in that regard and thenalso his faith.
(05:59):
And you know, then quickly fromconfirmation went on to youth
group and there's a guy namedKen who is our unofficial youth
group leader and by high schoolstandards he pretty much checked
every uncool box that you couldcheck you right, you know like.
(06:20):
But he loved me and he caredfor me, he prayed with me, he
discipled me, he encouraged meand encouraged me to consider
Concordia, which I'd never heardabout that at that time in my
life this is maybe end of myjunior year and ended up going
for recruiting day and visitingand could play football there
(06:43):
for four more years and all thatsort of stuff.
So, yeah, so that's kind of youknow short summary of my story.
And I just saw like, hey, ifJesus could work in my life,
through my family, through thesepeople, in this way, boy, what
an awesome opportunity I have toshare Jesus with, with other
(07:04):
people who have different,different walks of life, you
know.
So I guess that's part of it,that's cool man.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's so cool.
Talk about talk about what madethat youth group leader said
uncool, what was it that?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
was uncool about him.
What was uncool?
The emu obviously.
Yeah, older, you know kind ofif I'm just going to be
stereotypical, like comb over,right, you know kind of a goofy
laugh, right, and just justdidn't fit the mold of like what
a stupid high schooler wouldconsider to be cool.
(07:42):
But, like I said, he just hekept loving on me and that was
life changing quite literally,and I'd work through him to
impact me.
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So isn't there a great opportunity right now for
all of the baptized, especiallythose that are maybe of old
banter for a long time, like Ithink there's so much of an
opportunity for many of them tosay I'd like to get connected to
the younger people in mycongregation.
And I'd like to cast vision forthem to to go on a journey to
(08:14):
multiply disciples.
I'm praying for a revival of asense of just normal, everyday
lay leaders in our congregationsaying man, I want to go down a
generation or two to love andlearn from them, and that gives
so much life, life in the HolySpirit.
Anything more to add about justgoing down to love the next gen
dude?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, I mean as far as like, yeah, intergenerational
relationships, right, and itshirts, sometimes for good
reasons, for whatever reasons,you know, kind of segments.
Yeah, I think like he's gotАлександre talked to me about
the relationship he has to thecommunity Plans for social
service.
How do you get started ourpopulation into youth and
children's ministry and adultministry and not a whole lot of
crossing paths all the time,right, and I think there's value
(08:55):
in just doing life together andI think there's value also for
non parental adults to speakinto children's lives.
Like you know, dad and mom cansay what they're going to say
and that's good too.
But to have someone else say,hey, Jesus loves you, I really I
(09:15):
see this as a gifting in yourlife that the Lord has given you
.
I can think of a fewindividuals right now that in
our congregation that areprobably going into sixth grade
give or take, and I see it inthem.
I realize, like man that'spotentially a future church
worker in some way and justencouraging these people in that
(09:41):
sort of thing.
But as much as we can do thatthat's great.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So no, no doubt, man, so much life there.
I'm actually starting to coachmy son's high school football
team.
I'm not the head coach, but I'mgoing to go over the next four
years, maybe beyond, like that'sgoing to be a part of my my
life ministry and it gets me outof kind of a church bubble and
with normal people.
But I'm just so stoked to it'snot just about hanging out with
(10:07):
my son, which would be fine, butin the football environment,
whatever if you were a coach.
I think that's an awesomeopportunity for a lot of folks
to say, especially if you're anathlete or you were into the
arts of some sort like just godown and start to start to coach
, start to invest and and hearthe stories and cast vision for
those young people's lives.
Have you, how do you getoutside the church bubble, larry
?
What are the some of those ways?
(10:27):
So that's, I like to golf.
I hang out with pre Christians,you know, on the golf course
and stuff.
But what are some of your likehabits that move you into
relationship with pre Christians?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, no, that's a.
That's a good question.
Obviously, up in Breckenridge,colorado, skiing is part of it,
right, and so getting out andjust just hitting the slopes and
and man, there are some guys uphere like they can, they can
work me hard, like you know, I'ma decent skier, but they're,
(10:58):
they're beyond me up here andbut but just hanging out with
them, learning from them Maybethat's a lot of it too is not
just being with them, but beingin a, in a house, I say, humbled
place, a learning role, so thatI'm not just the I don't know
(11:18):
the pastor coming in saying, dothis, do that or whatever.
But hey, yeah, how can, how canthey help me to get better at
skiing and then I can comealongside with them and share
Jesus as appropriate right.
So I remember I took a ablance,one training course a couple
(11:38):
years ago up here throughColorado Mountain College, our
local community college, and andthere is one point where we're
out and we're back countryskiing, right, touring or
whatever, we're skinning up amountain and it's hard, it's
hard work, right, and get to thetop and you have to transition
(12:00):
your skis from uphill, take this, those skins off the bottom and
stuff, throw those in yourbackpack.
And then you ski down and I wasstill learning and made a
rookie mistake of not putting mybreakdown on my ski before
taking it off and it just wentdown the hill and the whole
(12:23):
whole way down.
I had to ski one ski and thewhole way down through powder
and I'm just praying, help me,jesus.
Help me, jesus and everyonethere in the group is just
praying with me like help me out, and one woman went and found
my ski and it was super like, ina sense, humbling, humiliating,
(12:43):
but at the same time I got toproclaim Jesus through that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So yeah, there it is.
That's funny, man, what?
I'm just curious, like whattype of rut are you black,
double black diamond?
Is that what you do, Larry,Like talk?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
about that.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That's pretty beast.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I mean you know , so I can leave my garage and
be on the lift, the Keystone, in18 minutes.
And so, you know, with puttinggear on and everything, so I've
got, I have that right at myfingertips.
I'll say I can see everythingin the resort.
But the mentality up here isfor people like locals, hardcore
(13:24):
skiers, the resorts are greatpractice places.
You know, like if you want tobe hardcore, you go out into the
back country.
And so I mean, you know,growing up I grew up in
Northeast Ohio, veil,breckenridge, like that's the,
the epitome of skiing.
And you get here and yourealize no, that's there's still
.
There's always a level aboveright, you know so.
(13:47):
So, yeah, so yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think that goes down to the reason I'm asking
those questions is just toestablish like you love your
community, you love the peoplethat.
Jesus has placed you around.
You're learning kind of thevalues and the rhythms of your
community.
And that's leading you, Larry,to say, man, if there's places
in my wider community where thegospel is not being proclaimed,
(14:15):
where Word and Sacramentministry isn't available for
God's people like that, thatshould not be.
So tell us now about the summitmission alliance that you've
kind of put together.
So cool man.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, so, oh, let's see.
So you know, a couple of yearsago I started working.
A few years ago Now, I startedworking with Christ Breckenridge
, where I'm called at this point, but before I was called up
here, I was just doing pulpitsupply, helping out.
I was living down in the Denvermetro area in front range, and
(14:46):
I drive up here preach, did somediscipling kind of through zoom
before.
Zoom was cool or whatever youknow with the pandemic and
everything, and, and.
But you know only so much youcan do from, from a distance,
right, and, and we were tryingto get them a pastor at this
place and it was challenging.
(15:08):
In fact, my brother in law,david, was one of the guys they
called and he really wanted tocome here, but just they
couldn't put together a packagethat made sense to for him and
his family to come up here and,and so we realized, hey, this is
a, this is a tough climate,tough culture, like, like, and,
and.
So we had to go back to thedrawing board a little bit and
(15:31):
think outside of the box, thereis the extended couple calls and
one to the seminary, and youknow they didn't get anyone from
the seminary and they're prettydistraught.
This is, oh, 2018, spring of2018, right, yeah, and and they
were, yeah, they were distraughtto the place where this
(15:51):
congregation, christ Brechner,which was was really ready to
close the doors.
You know they're.
They were distraught and so Iwas like, okay, I think we need
to start thinking outside thebox here.
I didn't know what that meantmulti-site or whatever and one
of the matriarchs of thecongregation looked at me and
(16:15):
said, pastor, you think this iswhat we should do and you know
this is someone she serves onthe altar guild.
She's super German, you knowbackground, like pretty much as
you know, stereotypical Lutheran, as you can envision.
And she looked at me and askedthat and I said, I think we, I
think we need to try.
She's like, all right, let's go.
(16:37):
And like that.
In my mind, that was a turningpoint for this congregation.
Where they're now.
They're ready to try anything.
And, long story short, like Iended up working out that they
called me with the help of ourcircuit, denver Northwest
circuit, led by peace Lutheranand Nevada, who are able to put
(17:01):
together a financial package tomake it just realistic, and one
of the important things wasgetting a parsnage of the church
, buying a parsnage because thehousing cost up in this
community it's, it's, it's a lot, and so the bread and butter of
our Senate being the Midwestright, or the heart of our
Senate, you know, to expect theguy from Iowa to come out here,
(17:25):
put 20% down on a house is justimpossible, right?
So, and so we started workingwith LCEF to figure out that
parsnage and and you know, how'sthis tiny little congregation
going to buy this superexpensive home, that sort of
stuff, and?
But they helped us do it andLord blessed it immensely.
(17:49):
We ran a capital campaign andwe're able to raise the funds
and and so, yeah, back in March2020, well, this is back.
This is sorry I'm skippingahead now, but yeah, march,
march of 2020, they closed on aparsnage and you know, it's
everything.
The whole world was blowing upat that time, right with the
(18:11):
pandemic, and so it's a weirdtime.
But we, we look at all thesethings that came to this point
and we recognize like, hmm,there's communities around
Breckenridge, I think, to ournorth, there's, there's Cromling
or there's, you know, winterPark, granby area, leadville, to
(18:33):
our southwest, and Fair Play,and none of like, none of these
places have churches, or if theydo have a congregation.
They're just hanging on, youknow, and so maybe we can
implement some of that stuff inin these other communities.
And that's kind of where someof Mission Alliance started from
, and and now we're working inLeadville to fix up a parsnage
(18:56):
so that we can get a missionaryup there.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So so you started to draw to Christ in Breck from
those different places, or wereyou planting different, smaller
faith?
We're in second communitiesthere and then we can talk about
Leadville as well.
Share a little bit more detailthere.
I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah well, no good question.
So we have people from thatthat come to worship with us on
Sunday morning, that come froman hour and a half away, right,
winter Park, cromling, fair,play, right, there were the
closest congregation to themunless they, they had the Denver
(19:33):
even that it's the same amountof time, right?
So so the need is, is isapparent, right, it's everywhere
and and so, yeah, looking forways to how do we, how do we
deploy these people back totheir community, because the
reality is like they're notgoing to bring their neighbors
(19:55):
to to worship with them, youknow, if they come that far, so
yeah, so now we're trying to get, how can we be be incarnational
with Word and Sacramentministry in those communities,
not just asking them to come tous.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So you know this is the podcast of the night
leadership collective and manyof our listeners are, like you
and I, connected to the LutheranChurch Missouri Synod and I
don't.
I don't know that we as anestablished national church body
have really wrapped our headsand hearts around context like
your unique context, where wedon't have Word and Sacrament
(20:33):
taking place and and for, say, aKremlin.
For them to start something,it's going to require a
tremendous amount of capital.
Why don't we recognize theleaders Jesus has already placed
there?
And if they have the ability toteach, why don't we start to
provide training for them tostart from their house to a
smaller space to maybe, if theLord wants to see it, see it
(20:55):
grow.
But the training and I'm notgoing to get super like LCMS,
political, but the trainingwould require them to maybe go
to the seminary for four yearsor or SMP, which is also, I
think, cost prohibitive in manyin many respects.
So yeah, I'm just praying for anopen mindedness within our
(21:18):
church by to say how do we raiseup leaders the Lord has already
, and not compromising on deeptheology there.
So anything, anything to say onthat front, because it's a
logistical challenge to thinkabout how you'd even get that
respective leader trained to bea missionary and maybe even a
pastor in their local context.
(21:39):
What are your thoughts there,larry?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, I would say the mission of some of the mission
alliance is to prepare, plantand provide for missionaries
right, and so that can beordained or lay right, but
putting them in that contextfirst so that they can just be
(22:04):
healthy and sustain and have asustainable ministry, like I've
heard it said, like whatever 80%of ministry is just showing up,
right or you know somethinglike that.
So being there and thenteaching into that context,
teaching that individual to be amissionary to that community,
(22:28):
as opposed to sending them away,and we both been blessed by
kind of that residential programand it's awesome, but not that,
just not the only way.
We don't see when Paul comesacross Timothy, he doesn't say,
hey, if you go to back toJerusalem for four years and
(22:51):
study for a while and get goodenough grades, you can come with
me.
So there's other ways.
Yeah, and I guess the otherthing to think about and I'm
maybe not answering yourquestion directly, but it's
great is we don't need have tohave brick and mortar buildings
(23:12):
in these communities for thereto be Word and sacrament
presence, and so in our context,like it, just it's cost
prohibitive, it's superexpensive to to find, just find
land and then build on it andand that sort of stuff.
And so, yeah, if we can equippeople to run more you know what
(23:36):
I refer to as missionalcommunities, but other people
call them micro churches orhouse churches or whatever
rights and kind of thisvariation on the same theme out
of that that context, and maybeleveraging some technology to
get preaching out or whatever,but equipping people to to be a
(23:59):
gathering in their neighborhood,a gathering place where people
can come over, they can eat,they can, they can share stories
, they can share life togetherand they can share Jesus.
Right, and yeah, so it'spowerful, dude, powerful, it's
hard, right, it's totallydifferent, totally different
(24:22):
model than what we've beenbrought up on.
And you know, when you haverelationships, sometimes they
get messy and but but look atthe Bible, this is, this is what
Jesus gives us, right?
So amen, amen, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So just to reiterate, when I I'm not speaking anti
residential education, I thinkthat those will always I pray,
always have a hand.
It's just a both and there alsohas to be this, this opportunity
to raise up and I like the wordmissionary evangelists.
You know evangelists is inscripture, and so talk more
(24:58):
about how you're looking to usea missionary up in, up in
Leadville and this kind of newproject.
I think it's really, reallypowerful and with the dynamics
that I love.
I was at peace Lutheran Gosh amonth ago or so, where my dad
served for 26 years beforegetting refired into a different
context, but but peace wastalking about it.
(25:21):
Dude, with like so much passion, we're doing a work project.
I think that already happened.
We're we're taking a wholebunch of people up.
Tim, Tim Hobbin is one of theamazing lay leaders.
These two men, Tim and I forgetthe other gentleman's name, but
they are standing- up, justlike rallying the troops, bro.
I was like, let's go toLeadville and I live down here
in Phoenix, you know.
So it was pretty cool what,what the Lord is up to say more
(25:43):
about the Leadville, Leadvilleproject.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we, to speak on whatyou were just referring to, we
had a work day up at Leadvillespecifically.
So there is a Lutherancongregation that's just hanging
on by the skin of their teethright now and they don't have
the capacity to call financiallyor various other ways.
Right and so.
But they, they, they own theirbuilding, church building, and
(26:09):
they own a parsonage and theparsonage has some, you know,
deferred maintenance, let's justsay, and it needs to be updated
and and so that'll be a greatplace for a missionary and, lord
willing, his family to live.
But it's so much more than that.
It's a tangible project thatpeople from our Vada, from St
(26:36):
John Denver, from SteamboatSprings, two hours north from
Vale, from you know all around.
So I think we had 30 people,six representing six
congregations, that alldescended there and just we're
working on fences and paintingand doors and all that sort of
stuff.
And it was pretty cool, notjust for the work that got
(26:58):
accomplished To be honest, if itwas just about the work is
probably a little too big of agroup, but but it's also about
the networking, the Church ofGod just working together,
different congregations areworking together to make this
mission happen.
And yeah, and then we also wehad lunch and we're able to
invite some neighbors to comejoin.
(27:19):
Us had a half a dozen neighborsjust sit down and grab a burger
with us and got to lay somefoundations, build some
relationships there.
So so that's good.
And then, you know, the hope isthat we get this person's job
cleaned up and then at this timewe're also doing some
fundraising to raise funds for amissionary and so that we can
(27:41):
call him Some of mission.
Alliance is 501 C three, butalso what's referred to as a
record, that recognized serviceorganization of the LCMS, and
what that means is we can call,we can use Lutheran Church
Extension Fund, we can useConcordia plans, that sort of
thing, and and and so we'relooking to extend a call to, in
(28:06):
this case, ordain missionary whowill in part time, serve the
congregation that's there, goodShepherd, and and also they'll
be a missionary in the communityby design and we'll see exactly
how the Lord has us play out.
But he'll be, he'll bebivocational, and so he works 20
(28:29):
hours a week.
He gets full benefits.
So you know, big thing is if wegive him housing, if we, if we
provide benefits, health care,retirement, that sort of stuff.
Then he can choose abivocational ministry.
That that dovetails neatly withhis mission to Leadville, be
that a coffee shop or you knowwhatever.
(28:50):
So working in a coffee shop,that sort of thing, and so there
, that's.
That's kind of what we'relooking at, and you know.
So part of that is just thathelp defray the overall package
a little bit.
Yeah, a little bit, but that'snot the main motivation behind
it.
It's just so this individualcan be in the community.
(29:13):
And I'm intentional aboutcalling him a missionary, just
so that everyone knows like hey,this isn't your typical
congregational pastor, which issuper important and super needed
.
We need shepherds, but we alsoneed missionaries in context
like this too, and that justhelps to communicate that
(29:37):
consistently.
And clearly.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh, there's so much, so much there, Larry, that I
love focus on bivocational, themissionary mindset of a call and
a servant of the word.
And then the what's really coolis the work of the wider church
.
There's something about humanbeings, bro, that like, want to
be connected to something biggerthan themselves.
(30:00):
I think this is what it means,Part of the reason we're made in
the image of God, part of thatunderstanding, because my dog
Roxy, she doesn't care aboutbeyond our walls, right, I am
God to little Frenchy Roxy, buthuman beings, I have something
in my heart.
I think it's the Holy Spiritthe Holy Spirit placed it there
(30:22):
that just loves to be a part ofthe bigger church.
And I kind of think of theapostle Paul.
He does this so many times,right, he's the saints in
Jerusalem, the saints inMacedonia.
You know, You're a part of thisbroader movement we're telling
stories of, and I think that'sall really the book of Acts is.
Is Luke kind of sitting downand saying this is how this
(30:44):
thing blew up?
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And it was way bigger than Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We got to see it go from Jerusalem all the way to
Rome right Throughout this wholebook to the kind of the
epicenter of the known world atthe time.
So I just love stories likethat that just lift up the
church.
This isn't about any one church, this is about the one Holy
Christian and Apostolic Church,the Big C Church, and wherever
there's a need for people toknow the gospel, I want to be
(31:09):
about helping that thing grow.
So anything more to add on thatkind of just expansive mindset,
Larry.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, no, I'll just say it's hard initially to get
people kind of out of that orshift them into that mindset, if
that makes sense.
So what I've experienced islike getting congregations to
work together.
It's not that people orcongregations have hard feelings
(31:38):
or whatever, it's justeveryone's kind of consumed in
their own little niche of theworld or that sort of thing.
Right and so to think aboutwhere am I going to, how am I
going to chisel out a little bitof time to do this project or
to do that?
It takes time, it takesrelationships and it takes trust
, and one of the greatest giftsthat God has given me is
(32:05):
relationships and the fact thatI was able to serve with your
dad down at Peace, serve at afour, seven years as associate
pastor, and then he sent me outas what's kind of referred to as
a circuit missionary at large,and so I was able to roam a
(32:26):
little bit during that five yearperiod.
I was able to buildrelationships that now that
we're up here in the mountainsand we're doing these things, I
can call people like Tim Hobbinor Greg Thompson or Stormy Greer
or whoever, and damn, they'reon it because they trust me and
(32:47):
they see mainly how Jesus isworking through all of this and
it's so good to be once you makethat move.
It's hard to make that move,but once you make that move,
kind of like you're saying, yourealize this is so much bigger
than me that I just get to be alittle cog in the machine or a
(33:14):
piece of this puzzle, whateveranalogy you want to use, so
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
You just reminded me that I have to call Stormy Greer
.
That was a note I was puttingthere.
So, yeah, let's talk about theMissio day, the mission of God
Is it?
The mission has a church or thechurch has a mission?
Which comes first, larry, inyour mind?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Well, I guess I'd say that God has a mission and his
church is on that mission withhim.
Right, joining Jesus on hismission.
And we look back all the way inthe beginning, with Genesis and
creation, and we see themission of God be fruitful and
(34:03):
multiply as he speaks to Adamand Eve, and fill the earth,
right.
And so I mean that's the samemission as the Great Commission,
matthew 28,.
Just prefall, postfall, youknow.
But now we go and makedisciples of all nations.
(34:24):
But it's the same mission ofGod, who's pushing us out, who's
empowering us with his HolySpirit, to whether it be rule
and subdue the earth lovingly,of course, right or whether it
be to make disciples of allnations.
And so, yeah, he cares for us,he cares for the lost world, he
(34:45):
loves the world, he sent his soninto the world so that we can
have life and be redeemed by him, forgiveness of sins.
And so we just like, who is it?
Greg Finkie or whatever wrotethe book?
Right, joining Jesus.
We get to join Jesus on hismission.
I mean, it's in, I think it'sLuke 6, where Jesus goes up one
(35:12):
morning and he goes up to themountain, prays to his Father in
heaven, comes down, chooses the12 disciples, apostles, right.
And then he takes them with himout to the crowds, to the lost,
hurting world, right.
And how many times do we see Imean in the feeding of the 5,000
(35:35):
, it wasn't just Jesus byhimself doing the miracle.
He works through his disciples,as the bread and the fish are
being distributed to the people,and in similar ways God's still
working through his peopletoday.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So that's so amazing, the humility that should come
for us in the fact that the Godof the universe is inviting us
in man, despite our brokenness,despite our frailty and
fallenness and selfishness.
And man, I just pray for thechurch to, and the church just
(36:15):
meaning individuals, families,communities of people who bend
the knee to King Jesus, justhaving that sense of curiosity
and awe and wonder about how Godis already at work in their
community and how they get tojoin him there.
So I'd love to hear a storyabout someone from maybe Christ
Breck or wherever, kind ofhaving a light bulb go off and
(36:36):
say, wow, jesus is calling me tothat group of people and I
can't, I don't know.
I've had this happen with awhole host of folks down through
the last 15 years.
Pastor, can you just being ableto just bless them and send
them out to be missionaries,right where they work and play
and do life?
(36:56):
So tell one of those stories,encourage us, larry.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, thanks.
Well, just this morning, onMonday mornings, I meet with
what I refer to as my, adiscipling huddle, right.
So a group of guys that we gettogether on Monday mornings and
we talk about our relationshipswith God, our relationship with
the church and the people of Godand the relationship that we
(37:23):
have with the hurting world.
Right, and there is oneindividual today, this morning,
john Schroer, who is he'sconnected with a few groups in
the community that you know ourcounty is take this for what it
is but very politically leftleaning and that impacts the
(37:46):
schools and in some of thecounty, you know, there really
aren't many private schooloptions or charter school
options.
It's the public schools or homeschool for the most part, right
, and so, and so you know,people see some of the stuff
that's being taught in thecurriculums that are being used
(38:06):
in the public schools andthere's concern amongst Jesus
followers.
And so this morning, like Johnjust sees, like hey, there's a
group of parents that care howhow can I help them, encourage
them, but also bring Jesus intothat group?
(38:30):
Because and this is one of thethings that came out this
morning you know you could dothings in a underhanded, kind of
shady way, work in the systemto get things done your way.
But that's not who we are asChristians.
Right, and John quick toidentify that.
(38:52):
So what does it look like tofollow a Lord who suffered all
the way up to the cross and kepthis character and integrity and
intact that entire time?
What's it looked like to be hismouthpiece for John to that
community of parents in the, inour community, that, yeah,
(39:17):
really really care about thefuture of education in some
accounting, so some accounting,colorado.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So, and that's going to be, that's going to be messy,
right that that's going to begetting together with people who
share, who don't share all ofyour biblical, judeo-christian
kind of ethics.
So talk about that, becauseright now I think one of the
biggest struggles for theeveryday follower of Jesus is
(39:47):
the hyperpolarization, thepolitical polarization.
And you may find yourself, well, I have certain values that
kind of lean me, biblical values.
You may even justify that leanme over here.
But at the same time, like thetension is, if we move at
culture or those that have otherpolitical persuasions with
anger or really wanting to winthe respective debate, we lose
(40:09):
love, and if we've lost love,we've kind of lost everything.
So how do you kind of discipleyour people in remaining true to
the scriptures?
Right, for instance, just aneasy one.
Right, we're a pro-life, we'repro-life in all of its forms
right, Pro-human in all of itsforms.
But the way we talk about thatcan be very, very divisive today
(40:32):
.
So how do you disciple yourcongregation to just kind of
monitor our tone and really keepour eyes fixed on the work and
the way of Jesus?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah, I would say, first, just listening.
Well, let me say this First,prayer, lots of prayer, right,
it has to go into everyencounter.
Lord, give us the spirit tofollow you.
But, yeah, then listening,listening to stories of people,
(41:05):
because my experience mostpeople are, at least their
intention is good, that doesn'tmean it's right, but they have a
story behind, kind of wherethey stand on things.
Hearing that validating them isnot just a project, a check mark
that, oh, can we get them intothe church and get them to
(41:26):
believe, but validating them ashumans.
I mean our Lord Jesus.
When he would come acrosspeople like blind men, he would
ask so what do you want me to dofor you?
Well, of course, what do youwant?
But Jesus sees this person as ahuman being.
(41:48):
He's dignifying this person,but just by engaging in this
conversation, then he would havemeals with them.
And so asking those questions,listening to stories, being
quick to listen, slow to speak.
But then when we do speak, arewe speaking a word of
(42:09):
condemnation?
No, we have to do this.
Or how do we speak of Jesus andof the life that he has given
us, the righteousness, the grace?
How do we speak the gospel?
It's so hard to hear in ourculture, that it's a culture
(42:32):
that just it is law of justwhether you stand for this issue
or that issue.
If you don't stand for theissue that I support, then I'm
going to shame you, I'm going tocancel you.
And how do we say no?
We're not going to fall intothat polarization.
We are just going to acceptpeople, even if that means not
(42:59):
approving of everything thatthey do in life, but accept them
as human beings and speak thelove of Christ into them.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, that nuance of I can accept people because
they're made in the image of God.
They carry the emigratei as ahuman.
And rather than I have to agree, I don't agree with everything
I do.
Or I look back and I get wefound the enemy, and the enemy
is B man.
So that sense of humility, andthen to just become better at
(43:35):
storytelling, listening tostories reflecting the story of
that individual maybe they'reheard or trauma with the church
or church leaders or theirperception of what the church is
.
We're just against.
And then, okay, fine, here'show I've come to know Jesus.
And then can we become masterstorytellers of Jesus, how he
(43:58):
went about loving the world.
Can we tell the story of thewoman caught in adultery, or
Zacchaeus, who's an enemy of theJews, you know that day, and
how Jesus invites them.
He shares meals, he's a friendof sinners, prostitutes, et
cetera.
So I mean just becoming.
I pray that all of the baptizedyou know, as they listen to us.
(44:20):
Larry preach would say you knowwhat that story has impacted me
.
Jesus has come to me and I'mwaiting, holy Spirit, for the
time when I can just share thatstory of how Jesus went about
living in the world with afriend who has maybe a
preconceived notion about thechurch, which one we may need to
apologize for, confess and twojust may not be true, because
(44:42):
we're Jesus people, anythingmore to add about the stories of
Jesus.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
But Well, I guess maybe a tangent to go off of
that is the idea that the peoplewho Jesus called to be His
inner circle, the 12, theydidn't all come from the same
walks of life.
So one person, we in the churchbody I think the Lutheran
(45:07):
church, a lot of us are goingthrough the Gospel of Matthew
this year.
Right, and Matthew, like he wasa tax collector, right, you
know, and he was an enemy of alot of Jews and you know they
saw him as a traitor, as asellout, as working for the
occupying force.
And then the other anotherperson that Jesus called to be
(45:31):
in his 12 was Simon the zealot,which, as far as we understand,
like zealots, if Matthew workedfor a government, zealots blew
up big government, you know,like they were kind of looking
to undermine everything with theRoman occupation.
And so, boy, when you start tounderstand that, you can see how
(45:55):
there were times when and thisis recorded in Scripture they
would argue who's the greatestof the disciples?
And they get.
You know, the other discipleswould get mad at James and at
John when they, their mom kindof went to Jesus and said, hey,
can they sit left and right atyour throne?
(46:18):
Right, you know, sit at yourleft and right and yeah, so
maybe not all kumbaya around thecampfire with them, and yet
Jesus brings them together.
He loves them, he forgives themand empowers them to go out
into the world to share hisreconciling gospel.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Right and so, if he can do it there, so I love that.
Just to finish out, this is oneof the few.
No, I remember a lot of thingsfrom seminary, but I remember
having a number of those likeaha moments and I think it was
is in Mark's gospel or it'smaybe a couple.
I think it pops most in Mark'sgospel, but the right and left
(47:08):
conversation you know it's notfor me, this place has been
prepared by my father.
And then you moved I think it'sMark 15 into 16, and then they
hung right next to him two oneon his right and one on his left
.
So I mean, jesus is instillingin them, the father is
instilling in them the way ofthe cross, the humble journey of
(47:31):
sacrifice and suffering, takingthe low place rather than the
high place, man, if there aremore leaders living like that,
pastors and just everydayfollowers of Jesus man, the
world is so much, so much betterto have that posture of
humility.
Larry, this has been so muchfun.
Let's close with one lastquestion.
So we happen to be in theLutheran Church of Missouri
Synod this podcast will be outafter the Synod Convention, of
(47:54):
which I'm a delegate and prayingthat, as we have robust
conversation around a number ofdifferent issues, that we would
disagree agreeably and unitefrom that place to go on mission
as the Lutheran Church ofMissouri Synod in her various
contexts.
So, in your experience, whatare some of the strengths of the
Lutheran Church of MissouriSynod, and then some of her
struggles, and what are yourthoughts about, maybe, how, by
(48:17):
the Spirit's power connected tothe word, this trajectory of
decline could change into thenext generation?
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, so some of the strengths obviously our theology
right, and that's huge and whatwe believe, we teach and
confess, and also theinstitutional church, like hey,
there's a lot of things that arereally well structured, that
(48:45):
just help our church body to humright and to run.
But so we're really good at theorganized aspect.
My concern is maybe we've lostsome of the organic relational
components, whether that becongregations working with each
other or different circuitsworking with one another.
(49:11):
And what does it look like forus to work together?
Well, one conversation at atime, right, it's just, it's
talking, it's being willing to,if you will reach across the
aisle and, yeah, someone mighthave a different stance on
(49:35):
whatever the hot topic worshipissue is, or schooling issue or
whatever, but to be able to goout, have a meal with them, talk
about Jesus, build some trustand relationships, I think
that's huge.
And maybe the other thought isfor us to be able to embrace
(49:59):
kind of a both and approach toministry and mission.
Right, I'll admit, I'll confessthat, you know, when I started
kind of down this path lookinginto discipling, huddles and
missional communities and thatsort of stuff, there was an
(50:20):
element inside of me that I hadto repent of that sort of looked
at the establishedinstitutional church and was
like, ah, they just don't get itright.
No, no, that's not the case.
It's just there's differentways to reach different people.
We're in a changing times.
How can we embrace?
And who showed me that?
Your dad, right, like big,biggest, like you know.
(50:45):
He, you know, in many waysPeace Arvato is kind of your
typical suburban congregation,right, and we had your dad and I
had some different ideas on howto reach people, but he just
loved Jesus and wants people toknow the love of Jesus and that
just gushed out of him.
(51:06):
And so when I went and sat downand talked with him, he said
you go, he blessed me, heempowered me, he got the
congregation Peace Arvato kindof behind this and the kingdom
of God is blessed through that.
So, yeah, so that's I don'tknow my thought the more that we
(51:30):
can talk, it's great, it's areally good thing.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
So yeah, make me emotional.
They're talking about my dadman.
I'm proud of that dude, yeah.
Thank you so much, and the factthat he blessed you and cared
for you and has encouraged youdown through the years, like
he's done with so many.
That's a major reason why I dowhat I do today.
If I could be half the man halfthe leader that he is man.
(51:55):
I'd be all right.
That'd be all right.
So this has been so good.
Man, love you, love your family, love the mission Jesus has
called you to, and if peoplewant to connect with you or the
mission, summon the Alliance,how can they do so?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Yeah, they can email me at larryat
summonmissionallianceorg.
Or visit our websitewwwsummitmissionallianceorg.
And learn more about what we'redoing.
And would love to whether wehave a phone call or someone
happens to be in Breckenridgeand wants to grab coffee or
(52:28):
whatever.
Would love to get together.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
So it's not a sucky place to visit.
It's an awesome spot, man.
You get to live in paradise.
Now I'm not a cold weather guyso I'll stay down here, but, man
, we just went through thatregion.
Man, it's just spectacular Someof God's greatest work, for
sure.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day.
(52:52):
Please like, subscribe, share,comment, wherever it is.
I pray you found thisconversation hope filled.
More than that, jesus filled.
That's what I'm leaving thisman.
It's all about Jesus, the workand the way of Jesus and doing
whatever it takes to reachpeople with the story of Christ.
We'll be back next week with afresh episode of American
Reformation.
We'll see you then.
Thanks so much, larry.
(53:13):
Yeah, you're welcome, thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, dude, I think you should follow us.
Hello and welcome to the brand new American
Reformation Podcast.
We long to see the widerAmerican Christian Church fall
more in love with Jesus bylearning from the practices of
the early church and other erasof discipleship multiplication.
We want to hear from you, makesure you comment and leave a
review, wherever you're watchingor listening, to tell us what
God is doing in your life or howyou feel about today's
(00:25):
conversation.
Lord, have your way in us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the American Reformation Podcast.
I pray, wherever you're takingthis in, the joy of the Lord is
your strength, that you'releaning into your baptismal
identity, that the hope andwonder of simply being a human
in 2023, this day, is increasingin your heart and leading you
to spaces where you can dreamnew dreams, namely to reach new
(00:57):
people with the gospel of JesusChrist.
So today, my wonderful guest,known as brother for a long,
long time, we go back toseminary days.
Larry McGurr was my center inour beautiful year I think it
was your second year of theseminary and it was my first and
(01:18):
we won that flag footballchampionship.
It was glorious.
I remember hitting you for atouchdown Everybody's eligible,
larry, you catch it down at yourshoe tops.
It was so much fun.
So from that day to you doinglife and ministry with my dad,
pastor Dave Alman, for a numberof years, and now you've been up
(01:38):
the hill in Breckenridge,colorado, beautiful, beautiful
area of God's creation, mygoodness, and you're doing some
very, very creative things.
So first, before we get into alittle bit of your story, just
generally, this is our openingquestion.
So we're praying forReformation in the American
Christian Church in 2023 andbeyond.
Buddy, thanks for hanging out.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, no, no, it's good.
And just back to that, thattouchdown.
I might have trapped that ball.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I might have, but it didn't get called.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Anyway.
So no, the way I'm praying andI'm joining some other church
leaders in doing this, but whatI refer to as 10-2 prayers,
right, so at 10-02 am everymorning I'm praying for the Lord
of the harvest to send laborersinto His harvest.
That's obviously based on Luke,chapter 10, verse two, where
(02:36):
that's Jesus' command right, theother Lord's prayer right that
he gives us.
Yeah, so praying inspecifically, and we see that in
our church body.
Just we look at the numbers,the number of guys retiring and
number of guys coming out of theseminary, and there's a
(02:57):
discrepancy.
And then in this community, inthe central Colorado mountains,
we see a need for church workers, both ordained in lay, lay
workers in this community.
So, yeah, that's how it's goingfor me.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I love it and how Luke 10 has been such a staple
chapter for me over the last 15years, jesus sending out the 72,
the kind of 70, the boomerangeffect of they go out.
Jesus has prayed the Lord ofthe harvest and then he's
modeling what the Lord of theharvest wants, right, right, and
(03:36):
sending out the 70 who go out.
They cast out demons, proclaimthe kingdom of God.
They do all these miracles.
That's one of my favoritestories because they come back.
Even the demons are subject tous in your day.
Jesus said that.
He's like guys, come on, don'tget the big head, just rejoice
your days are written in thebook of life, right, and so it's
so formative about thecharacter, the humble character.
This isn't your work, this ismy work in and through you.
(03:56):
So I love that.
That's kind of a life verse foryou.
We share that indeed.
So tell us how you developedyour heart for missions and kind
of caring for the wider church.
Yeah, every pastor kind of hasthat.
Larry, you know this abilityand I think it's a gifting of
the Holy Spirit to think, yeah,it's about my church, Christ in
(04:17):
prayer, Christ Greenfield,whatever, but it's about the
wider, wider church.
How did that kind of develop inyou?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know from early days, like the
way I came to faith, like insome ways it's kind of your
typical Lutheran story.
I was baptized as an infant.
My parents were prettyunchurched.
Might go to church Christmasand Easter for the early part of
my life, right, and my mom diddrop me off for Sunday school
(04:48):
when I was younger and she wouldgo and run errands and shopping
and all that sort of stuff,right.
But through that, through thewater and the word spirits stuck
right and he worked in my heart.
And there came a time when I wasgoing into eighth grade, where
we're standing in front of mygrandmother's son room, my mom
(05:12):
and I and grandmother, a fewother people were there and mom
said, hey, the church sentsomething saying, hey, you're
invited to confirmation andwould you like to come?
And you know, I was going intoeighth grade, had lots of other
things going on in lifedistractions, whatnot, whatnot,
(05:36):
and for whatever reason.
Well, specifically because thespirit was working in me that I
said, yeah, why not?
You know, connect with theconfirmation.
And I love my pastor there.
You went to Annapolis.
He's an officer in the MarineCorps, so I kind of looked up to
him in that regard and thenalso his faith.
(05:59):
And you know, then quickly fromconfirmation went on to youth
group and there's a guy namedKen who is our unofficial youth
group leader and by high schoolstandards he pretty much checked
every uncool box that you couldcheck you right, you know like.
(06:20):
But he loved me and he caredfor me, he prayed with me, he
discipled me, he encouraged meand encouraged me to consider
Concordia, which I'd never heardabout that at that time in my
life this is maybe end of myjunior year and ended up going
for recruiting day and visitingand could play football there
(06:43):
for four more years and all thatsort of stuff.
So, yeah, so that's kind of youknow short summary of my story.
And I just saw like, hey, ifJesus could work in my life,
through my family, through thesepeople, in this way, boy, what
an awesome opportunity I have toshare Jesus with, with other
(07:04):
people who have different,different walks of life, you
know.
So I guess that's part of it,that's cool man.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's so cool.
Talk about talk about what madethat youth group leader said
uncool, what was it that?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
was uncool about him.
What was uncool?
The emu obviously.
Yeah, older, you know kind ofif I'm just going to be
stereotypical, like comb over,right, you know kind of a goofy
laugh, right, and just justdidn't fit the mold of like what
a stupid high schooler wouldconsider to be cool.
(07:42):
But, like I said, he just hekept loving on me and that was
life changing quite literally,and I'd work through him to
impact me.
Man.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So isn't there a great opportunity right now for
all of the baptized, especiallythose that are maybe of old
banter for a long time, like Ithink there's so much of an
opportunity for many of them tosay I'd like to get connected to
the younger people in mycongregation.
And I'd like to cast vision forthem to to go on a journey to
(08:14):
multiply disciples.
I'm praying for a revival of asense of just normal, everyday
lay leaders in our congregationsaying man, I want to go down a
generation or two to love andlearn from them, and that gives
so much life, life in the HolySpirit.
Anything more to add about justgoing down to love the next gen
dude?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, I mean as far as like, yeah, intergenerational
relationships, right, and itshirts, sometimes for good
reasons, for whatever reasons,you know, kind of segments.
Yeah, I think like he's gotАлександre talked to me about
the relationship he has to thecommunity Plans for social
service.
How do you get started ourpopulation into youth and
children's ministry and adultministry and not a whole lot of
crossing paths all the time,right, and I think there's value
(08:55):
in just doing life together andI think there's value also for
non parental adults to speakinto children's lives.
Like you know, dad and mom cansay what they're going to say
and that's good too.
But to have someone else say,hey, Jesus loves you, I really I
(09:15):
see this as a gifting in yourlife that the Lord has given you
.
I can think of a fewindividuals right now that in
our congregation that areprobably going into sixth grade
give or take, and I see it inthem.
I realize, like man that'spotentially a future church
worker in some way and justencouraging these people in that
(09:41):
sort of thing.
But as much as we can do thatthat's great.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So no, no doubt, man, so much life there.
I'm actually starting to coachmy son's high school football
team.
I'm not the head coach, but I'mgoing to go over the next four
years, maybe beyond, like that'sgoing to be a part of my my
life ministry and it gets me outof kind of a church bubble and
with normal people.
But I'm just so stoked to it'snot just about hanging out with
(10:07):
my son, which would be fine, butin the football environment,
whatever if you were a coach.
I think that's an awesomeopportunity for a lot of folks
to say, especially if you're anathlete or you were into the
arts of some sort like just godown and start to start to coach
, start to invest and and hearthe stories and cast vision for
those young people's lives.
Have you, how do you getoutside the church bubble, larry
?
What are the some of those ways?
(10:27):
So that's, I like to golf.
I hang out with pre Christians,you know, on the golf course
and stuff.
But what are some of your likehabits that move you into
relationship with pre Christians?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, no, that's a.
That's a good question.
Obviously, up in Breckenridge,colorado, skiing is part of it,
right, and so getting out andjust just hitting the slopes and
and man, there are some guys uphere like they can, they can
work me hard, like you know, I'ma decent skier, but they're,
(10:58):
they're beyond me up here andbut but just hanging out with
them, learning from them Maybethat's a lot of it too is not
just being with them, but beingin a, in a house, I say, humbled
place, a learning role, so thatI'm not just the I don't know
(11:18):
the pastor coming in saying, dothis, do that or whatever.
But hey, yeah, how can, how canthey help me to get better at
skiing and then I can comealongside with them and share
Jesus as appropriate right.
So I remember I took a ablance,one training course a couple
(11:38):
years ago up here throughColorado Mountain College, our
local community college, and andthere is one point where we're
out and we're back countryskiing, right, touring or
whatever, we're skinning up amountain and it's hard, it's
hard work, right, and get to thetop and you have to transition
(12:00):
your skis from uphill, take this, those skins off the bottom and
stuff, throw those in yourbackpack.
And then you ski down and I wasstill learning and made a
rookie mistake of not putting mybreakdown on my ski before
taking it off and it just wentdown the hill and the whole
(12:23):
whole way down.
I had to ski one ski and thewhole way down through powder
and I'm just praying, help me,jesus.
Help me, jesus and everyonethere in the group is just
praying with me like help me out, and one woman went and found
my ski and it was super like, ina sense, humbling, humiliating,
(12:43):
but at the same time I got toproclaim Jesus through that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So yeah, there it is.
That's funny, man, what?
I'm just curious, like whattype of rut are you black,
double black diamond?
Is that what you do, Larry,Like talk?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
about that.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
That's pretty beast.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I mean you know , so I can leave my garage and
be on the lift, the Keystone, in18 minutes.
And so, you know, with puttinggear on and everything, so I've
got, I have that right at myfingertips.
I'll say I can see everythingin the resort.
But the mentality up here isfor people like locals, hardcore
(13:24):
skiers, the resorts are greatpractice places.
You know, like if you want tobe hardcore, you go out into the
back country.
And so I mean, you know,growing up I grew up in
Northeast Ohio, veil,breckenridge, like that's the,
the epitome of skiing.
And you get here and yourealize no, that's there's still
.
There's always a level aboveright, you know so.
(13:47):
So, yeah, so yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think that goes down to the reason I'm asking
those questions is just toestablish like you love your
community, you love the peoplethat.
Jesus has placed you around.
You're learning kind of thevalues and the rhythms of your
community.
And that's leading you, Larry,to say, man, if there's places
in my wider community where thegospel is not being proclaimed,
(14:15):
where Word and Sacramentministry isn't available for
God's people like that, thatshould not be.
So tell us now about the summitmission alliance that you've
kind of put together.
So cool man.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, so, oh, let's see.
So you know, a couple of yearsago I started working.
A few years ago Now, I startedworking with Christ Breckenridge
, where I'm called at this point, but before I was called up
here, I was just doing pulpitsupply, helping out.
I was living down in the Denvermetro area in front range, and
(14:46):
I drive up here preach, did somediscipling kind of through zoom
before.
Zoom was cool or whatever youknow with the pandemic and
everything, and, and.
But you know only so much youcan do from, from a distance,
right, and, and we were tryingto get them a pastor at this
place and it was challenging.
(15:08):
In fact, my brother in law,david, was one of the guys they
called and he really wanted tocome here, but just they
couldn't put together a packagethat made sense to for him and
his family to come up here and,and so we realized, hey, this is
a, this is a tough climate,tough culture, like, like, and,
and.
So we had to go back to thedrawing board a little bit and
(15:31):
think outside of the box, thereis the extended couple calls and
one to the seminary, and youknow they didn't get anyone from
the seminary and they're prettydistraught.
This is, oh, 2018, spring of2018, right, yeah, and and they
were, yeah, they were distraughtto the place where this
(15:51):
congregation, christ Brechner,which was was really ready to
close the doors.
You know they're.
They were distraught and so Iwas like, okay, I think we need
to start thinking outside thebox here.
I didn't know what that meantmulti-site or whatever and one
of the matriarchs of thecongregation looked at me and
(16:15):
said, pastor, you think this iswhat we should do and you know
this is someone she serves onthe altar guild.
She's super German, you knowbackground, like pretty much as
you know, stereotypical Lutheran, as you can envision.
And she looked at me and askedthat and I said, I think we, I
think we need to try.
She's like, all right, let's go.
(16:37):
And like that.
In my mind, that was a turningpoint for this congregation.
Where they're now.
They're ready to try anything.
And, long story short, like Iended up working out that they
called me with the help of ourcircuit, denver Northwest
circuit, led by peace Lutheranand Nevada, who are able to put
(17:01):
together a financial package tomake it just realistic, and one
of the important things wasgetting a parsnage of the church
, buying a parsnage because thehousing cost up in this
community it's, it's, it's a lot, and so the bread and butter of
our Senate being the Midwestright, or the heart of our
Senate, you know, to expect theguy from Iowa to come out here,
(17:25):
put 20% down on a house is justimpossible, right?
So, and so we started workingwith LCEF to figure out that
parsnage and and you know, how'sthis tiny little congregation
going to buy this superexpensive home, that sort of
stuff, and?
But they helped us do it andLord blessed it immensely.
(17:49):
We ran a capital campaign andwe're able to raise the funds
and and so, yeah, back in March2020, well, this is back.
This is sorry I'm skippingahead now, but yeah, march,
march of 2020, they closed on aparsnage and you know, it's
everything.
The whole world was blowing upat that time, right with the
(18:11):
pandemic, and so it's a weirdtime.
But we, we look at all thesethings that came to this point
and we recognize like, hmm,there's communities around
Breckenridge, I think, to ournorth, there's, there's Cromling
or there's, you know, winterPark, granby area, leadville, to
(18:33):
our southwest, and Fair Play,and none of like, none of these
places have churches, or if theydo have a congregation.
They're just hanging on, youknow, and so maybe we can
implement some of that stuff inin these other communities.
And that's kind of where someof Mission Alliance started from
, and and now we're working inLeadville to fix up a parsnage
(18:56):
so that we can get a missionaryup there.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So so you started to draw to Christ in Breck from
those different places, or wereyou planting different, smaller
faith?
We're in second communitiesthere and then we can talk about
Leadville as well.
Share a little bit more detailthere.
I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah well, no good question.
So we have people from thatthat come to worship with us on
Sunday morning, that come froman hour and a half away, right,
winter Park, cromling, fair,play, right, there were the
closest congregation to themunless they, they had the Denver
(19:33):
even that it's the same amountof time, right?
So so the need is, is isapparent, right, it's everywhere
and and so, yeah, looking forways to how do we, how do we
deploy these people back totheir community, because the
reality is like they're notgoing to bring their neighbors
(19:55):
to to worship with them, youknow, if they come that far, so
yeah, so now we're trying to get, how can we be be incarnational
with Word and Sacramentministry in those communities,
not just asking them to come tous.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So you know this is the podcast of the night
leadership collective and manyof our listeners are, like you
and I, connected to the LutheranChurch Missouri Synod and I
don't.
I don't know that we as anestablished national church body
have really wrapped our headsand hearts around context like
your unique context, where wedon't have Word and Sacrament
(20:33):
taking place and and for, say, aKremlin.
For them to start something,it's going to require a
tremendous amount of capital.
Why don't we recognize theleaders Jesus has already placed
there?
And if they have the ability toteach, why don't we start to
provide training for them tostart from their house to a
smaller space to maybe, if theLord wants to see it, see it
(20:55):
grow.
But the training and I'm notgoing to get super like LCMS,
political, but the trainingwould require them to maybe go
to the seminary for four yearsor or SMP, which is also, I
think, cost prohibitive in manyin many respects.
So yeah, I'm just praying for anopen mindedness within our
(21:18):
church by to say how do we raiseup leaders the Lord has already
, and not compromising on deeptheology there.
So anything, anything to say onthat front, because it's a
logistical challenge to thinkabout how you'd even get that
respective leader trained to bea missionary and maybe even a
pastor in their local context.
(21:39):
What are your thoughts there,larry?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, I would say the mission of some of the mission
alliance is to prepare, plantand provide for missionaries
right, and so that can beordained or lay right, but
putting them in that contextfirst so that they can just be
(22:04):
healthy and sustain and have asustainable ministry, like I've
heard it said, like whatever 80%of ministry is just showing up,
right or you know somethinglike that.
So being there and thenteaching into that context,
teaching that individual to be amissionary to that community,
(22:28):
as opposed to sending them away,and we both been blessed by
kind of that residential programand it's awesome, but not that,
just not the only way.
We don't see when Paul comesacross Timothy, he doesn't say,
hey, if you go to back toJerusalem for four years and
(22:51):
study for a while and get goodenough grades, you can come with
me.
So there's other ways.
Yeah, and I guess the otherthing to think about and I'm
maybe not answering yourquestion directly, but it's
great is we don't need have tohave brick and mortar buildings
(23:12):
in these communities for thereto be Word and sacrament
presence, and so in our context,like it, just it's cost
prohibitive, it's superexpensive to to find, just find
land and then build on it andand that sort of stuff.
And so, yeah, if we can equippeople to run more you know what
(23:36):
I refer to as missionalcommunities, but other people
call them micro churches orhouse churches or whatever
rights and kind of thisvariation on the same theme out
of that that context, and maybeleveraging some technology to
get preaching out or whatever,but equipping people to to be a
(23:59):
gathering in their neighborhood,a gathering place where people
can come over, they can eat,they can, they can share stories
, they can share life togetherand they can share Jesus.
Right, and yeah, so it'spowerful, dude, powerful, it's
hard, right, it's totallydifferent, totally different
(24:22):
model than what we've beenbrought up on.
And you know, when you haverelationships, sometimes they
get messy and but but look atthe Bible, this is, this is what
Jesus gives us, right?
So amen, amen, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So just to reiterate, when I I'm not speaking anti
residential education, I thinkthat those will always I pray,
always have a hand.
It's just a both and there alsohas to be this, this opportunity
to raise up and I like the wordmissionary evangelists.
You know evangelists is inscripture, and so talk more
(24:58):
about how you're looking to usea missionary up in, up in
Leadville and this kind of newproject.
I think it's really, reallypowerful and with the dynamics
that I love.
I was at peace Lutheran Gosh amonth ago or so, where my dad
served for 26 years beforegetting refired into a different
context, but but peace wastalking about it.
(25:21):
Dude, with like so much passion, we're doing a work project.
I think that already happened.
We're we're taking a wholebunch of people up.
Tim, Tim Hobbin is one of theamazing lay leaders.
These two men, Tim and I forgetthe other gentleman's name, but
they are standing- up, justlike rallying the troops, bro.
I was like, let's go toLeadville and I live down here
in Phoenix, you know.
So it was pretty cool what,what the Lord is up to say more
(25:43):
about the Leadville, Leadvilleproject.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we, to speak on whatyou were just referring to, we
had a work day up at Leadvillespecifically.
So there is a Lutherancongregation that's just hanging
on by the skin of their teethright now and they don't have
the capacity to call financiallyor various other ways.
Right and so.
But they, they, they own theirbuilding, church building, and
(26:09):
they own a parsonage and theparsonage has some, you know,
deferred maintenance, let's justsay, and it needs to be updated
and and so that'll be a greatplace for a missionary and, lord
willing, his family to live.
But it's so much more than that.
It's a tangible project thatpeople from our Vada, from St
(26:36):
John Denver, from SteamboatSprings, two hours north from
Vale, from you know all around.
So I think we had 30 people,six representing six
congregations, that alldescended there and just we're
working on fences and paintingand doors and all that sort of
stuff.
And it was pretty cool, notjust for the work that got
(26:58):
accomplished To be honest, if itwas just about the work is
probably a little too big of agroup, but but it's also about
the networking, the Church ofGod just working together,
different congregations areworking together to make this
mission happen.
And yeah, and then we also wehad lunch and we're able to
invite some neighbors to comejoin.
(27:19):
Us had a half a dozen neighborsjust sit down and grab a burger
with us and got to lay somefoundations, build some
relationships there.
So so that's good.
And then, you know, the hope isthat we get this person's job
cleaned up and then at this timewe're also doing some
fundraising to raise funds for amissionary and so that we can
(27:41):
call him Some of mission.
Alliance is 501 C three, butalso what's referred to as a
record, that recognized serviceorganization of the LCMS, and
what that means is we can call,we can use Lutheran Church
Extension Fund, we can useConcordia plans, that sort of
thing, and and and so we'relooking to extend a call to, in
(28:06):
this case, ordain missionary whowill in part time, serve the
congregation that's there, goodShepherd, and and also they'll
be a missionary in the communityby design and we'll see exactly
how the Lord has us play out.
But he'll be, he'll bebivocational, and so he works 20
(28:29):
hours a week.
He gets full benefits.
So you know, big thing is if wegive him housing, if we, if we
provide benefits, health care,retirement, that sort of stuff.
Then he can choose abivocational ministry.
That that dovetails neatly withhis mission to Leadville, be
that a coffee shop or you knowwhatever.
(28:50):
So working in a coffee shop,that sort of thing, and so there
, that's.
That's kind of what we'relooking at, and you know.
So part of that is just thathelp defray the overall package
a little bit.
Yeah, a little bit, but that'snot the main motivation behind
it.
It's just so this individualcan be in the community.
(29:13):
And I'm intentional aboutcalling him a missionary, just
so that everyone knows like hey,this isn't your typical
congregational pastor, which issuper important and super needed
.
We need shepherds, but we alsoneed missionaries in context
like this too, and that justhelps to communicate that
(29:37):
consistently.
And clearly.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh, there's so much, so much there, Larry, that I
love focus on bivocational, themissionary mindset of a call and
a servant of the word.
And then the what's really coolis the work of the wider church
.
There's something about humanbeings, bro, that like, want to
be connected to something biggerthan themselves.
(30:00):
I think this is what it means,Part of the reason we're made in
the image of God, part of thatunderstanding, because my dog
Roxy, she doesn't care aboutbeyond our walls, right, I am
God to little Frenchy Roxy, buthuman beings, I have something
in my heart.
I think it's the Holy Spiritthe Holy Spirit placed it there
(30:22):
that just loves to be a part ofthe bigger church.
And I kind of think of theapostle Paul.
He does this so many times,right, he's the saints in
Jerusalem, the saints inMacedonia.
You know, You're a part of thisbroader movement we're telling
stories of, and I think that'sall really the book of Acts is.
Is Luke kind of sitting downand saying this is how this
(30:44):
thing blew up?
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And it was way bigger than Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We got to see it go from Jerusalem all the way to
Rome right Throughout this wholebook to the kind of the
epicenter of the known world atthe time.
So I just love stories likethat that just lift up the
church.
This isn't about any one church, this is about the one Holy
Christian and Apostolic Church,the Big C Church, and wherever
there's a need for people toknow the gospel, I want to be
(31:09):
about helping that thing grow.
So anything more to add on thatkind of just expansive mindset,
Larry.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, no, I'll just say it's hard initially to get
people kind of out of that orshift them into that mindset, if
that makes sense.
So what I've experienced islike getting congregations to
work together.
It's not that people orcongregations have hard feelings
(31:38):
or whatever, it's justeveryone's kind of consumed in
their own little niche of theworld or that sort of thing.
Right and so to think aboutwhere am I going to, how am I
going to chisel out a little bitof time to do this project or
to do that?
It takes time, it takesrelationships and it takes trust
, and one of the greatest giftsthat God has given me is
(32:05):
relationships and the fact thatI was able to serve with your
dad down at Peace, serve at afour, seven years as associate
pastor, and then he sent me outas what's kind of referred to as
a circuit missionary at large,and so I was able to roam a
(32:26):
little bit during that five yearperiod.
I was able to buildrelationships that now that
we're up here in the mountainsand we're doing these things, I
can call people like Tim Hobbinor Greg Thompson or Stormy Greer
or whoever, and damn, they'reon it because they trust me and
(32:47):
they see mainly how Jesus isworking through all of this and
it's so good to be once you makethat move.
It's hard to make that move,but once you make that move,
kind of like you're saying, yourealize this is so much bigger
than me that I just get to be alittle cog in the machine or a
(33:14):
piece of this puzzle, whateveranalogy you want to use, so
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
You just reminded me that I have to call Stormy Greer
.
That was a note I was puttingthere.
So, yeah, let's talk about theMissio day, the mission of God
Is it?
The mission has a church or thechurch has a mission?
Which comes first, larry, inyour mind?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Well, I guess I'd say that God has a mission and his
church is on that mission withhim.
Right, joining Jesus on hismission.
And we look back all the way inthe beginning, with Genesis and
creation, and we see themission of God be fruitful and
(34:03):
multiply as he speaks to Adamand Eve, and fill the earth,
right.
And so I mean that's the samemission as the Great Commission,
matthew 28,.
Just prefall, postfall, youknow.
But now we go and makedisciples of all nations.
(34:24):
But it's the same mission ofGod, who's pushing us out, who's
empowering us with his HolySpirit, to whether it be rule
and subdue the earth lovingly,of course, right or whether it
be to make disciples of allnations.
And so, yeah, he cares for us,he cares for the lost world, he
(34:45):
loves the world, he sent his soninto the world so that we can
have life and be redeemed by him, forgiveness of sins.
And so we just like, who is it?
Greg Finkie or whatever wrotethe book?
Right, joining Jesus.
We get to join Jesus on hismission.
I mean, it's in, I think it'sLuke 6, where Jesus goes up one
(35:12):
morning and he goes up to themountain, prays to his Father in
heaven, comes down, chooses the12 disciples, apostles, right.
And then he takes them with himout to the crowds, to the lost,
hurting world, right.
And how many times do we see Imean in the feeding of the 5,000
(35:35):
, it wasn't just Jesus byhimself doing the miracle.
He works through his disciples,as the bread and the fish are
being distributed to the people,and in similar ways God's still
working through his peopletoday.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
So that's so amazing, the humility that should come
for us in the fact that the Godof the universe is inviting us
in man, despite our brokenness,despite our frailty and
fallenness and selfishness.
And man, I just pray for thechurch to, and the church just
(36:15):
meaning individuals, families,communities of people who bend
the knee to King Jesus, justhaving that sense of curiosity
and awe and wonder about how Godis already at work in their
community and how they get tojoin him there.
So I'd love to hear a storyabout someone from maybe Christ
Breck or wherever, kind ofhaving a light bulb go off and
(36:36):
say, wow, jesus is calling me tothat group of people and I
can't, I don't know.
I've had this happen with awhole host of folks down through
the last 15 years.
Pastor, can you just being ableto just bless them and send
them out to be missionaries,right where they work and play
and do life?
(36:56):
So tell one of those stories,encourage us, larry.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, thanks.
Well, just this morning, onMonday mornings, I meet with
what I refer to as my, adiscipling huddle, right.
So a group of guys that we gettogether on Monday mornings and
we talk about our relationshipswith God, our relationship with
the church and the people of Godand the relationship that we
(37:23):
have with the hurting world.
Right, and there is oneindividual today, this morning,
john Schroer, who is he'sconnected with a few groups in
the community that you know ourcounty is take this for what it
is but very politically leftleaning and that impacts the
(37:46):
schools and in some of thecounty, you know, there really
aren't many private schooloptions or charter school
options.
It's the public schools or homeschool for the most part, right
, and so, and so you know,people see some of the stuff
that's being taught in thecurriculums that are being used
(38:06):
in the public schools andthere's concern amongst Jesus
followers.
And so this morning, like Johnjust sees, like hey, there's a
group of parents that care howhow can I help them, encourage
them, but also bring Jesus intothat group?
(38:30):
Because and this is one of thethings that came out this
morning you know you could dothings in a underhanded, kind of
shady way, work in the systemto get things done your way.
But that's not who we are asChristians.
Right, and John quick toidentify that.
(38:52):
So what does it look like tofollow a Lord who suffered all
the way up to the cross and kepthis character and integrity and
intact that entire time?
What's it looked like to be hismouthpiece for John to that
community of parents in the, inour community, that, yeah,
(39:17):
really really care about thefuture of education in some
accounting, so some accounting,colorado.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So, and that's going to be, that's going to be messy,
right that that's going to begetting together with people who
share, who don't share all ofyour biblical, judeo-christian
kind of ethics.
So talk about that, becauseright now I think one of the
biggest struggles for theeveryday follower of Jesus is
(39:47):
the hyperpolarization, thepolitical polarization.
And you may find yourself, well, I have certain values that
kind of lean me, biblical values.
You may even justify that leanme over here.
But at the same time, like thetension is, if we move at
culture or those that have otherpolitical persuasions with
anger or really wanting to winthe respective debate, we lose
(40:09):
love, and if we've lost love,we've kind of lost everything.
So how do you kind of discipleyour people in remaining true to
the scriptures?
Right, for instance, just aneasy one.
Right, we're a pro-life, we'repro-life in all of its forms
right, Pro-human in all of itsforms.
But the way we talk about thatcan be very, very divisive today
(40:32):
.
So how do you disciple yourcongregation to just kind of
monitor our tone and really keepour eyes fixed on the work and
the way of Jesus?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Yeah, I would say, first, just listening.
Well, let me say this First,prayer, lots of prayer, right,
it has to go into everyencounter.
Lord, give us the spirit tofollow you.
But, yeah, then listening,listening to stories of people,
(41:05):
because my experience mostpeople are, at least their
intention is good, that doesn'tmean it's right, but they have a
story behind, kind of wherethey stand on things.
Hearing that validating them isnot just a project, a check mark
that, oh, can we get them intothe church and get them to
(41:26):
believe, but validating them ashumans.
I mean our Lord Jesus.
When he would come acrosspeople like blind men, he would
ask so what do you want me to dofor you?
Well, of course, what do youwant?
But Jesus sees this person as ahuman being.
(41:48):
He's dignifying this person,but just by engaging in this
conversation, then he would havemeals with them.
And so asking those questions,listening to stories, being
quick to listen, slow to speak.
But then when we do speak, arewe speaking a word of
(42:09):
condemnation?
No, we have to do this.
Or how do we speak of Jesus andof the life that he has given
us, the righteousness, the grace?
How do we speak the gospel?
It's so hard to hear in ourculture, that it's a culture
(42:32):
that just it is law of justwhether you stand for this issue
or that issue.
If you don't stand for theissue that I support, then I'm
going to shame you, I'm going tocancel you.
And how do we say no?
We're not going to fall intothat polarization.
We are just going to acceptpeople, even if that means not
(42:59):
approving of everything thatthey do in life, but accept them
as human beings and speak thelove of Christ into them.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, that nuance of I can accept people because
they're made in the image of God.
They carry the emigratei as ahuman.
And rather than I have to agree, I don't agree with everything
I do.
Or I look back and I get wefound the enemy, and the enemy
is B man.
So that sense of humility, andthen to just become better at
(43:35):
storytelling, listening tostories reflecting the story of
that individual maybe they'reheard or trauma with the church
or church leaders or theirperception of what the church is
.
We're just against.
And then, okay, fine, here'show I've come to know Jesus.
And then can we become masterstorytellers of Jesus, how he
(43:58):
went about loving the world.
Can we tell the story of thewoman caught in adultery, or
Zacchaeus, who's an enemy of theJews, you know that day, and
how Jesus invites them.
He shares meals, he's a friendof sinners, prostitutes, et
cetera.
So I mean just becoming.
I pray that all of the baptizedyou know, as they listen to us.
(44:20):
Larry preach would say you knowwhat that story has impacted me
.
Jesus has come to me and I'mwaiting, holy Spirit, for the
time when I can just share thatstory of how Jesus went about
living in the world with afriend who has maybe a
preconceived notion about thechurch, which one we may need to
apologize for, confess and twojust may not be true, because
(44:42):
we're Jesus people, anythingmore to add about the stories of
Jesus.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
But Well, I guess maybe a tangent to go off of
that is the idea that the peoplewho Jesus called to be His
inner circle, the 12, theydidn't all come from the same
walks of life.
So one person, we in the churchbody I think the Lutheran
(45:07):
church, a lot of us are goingthrough the Gospel of Matthew
this year.
Right, and Matthew, like he wasa tax collector, right, you
know, and he was an enemy of alot of Jews and you know they
saw him as a traitor, as asellout, as working for the
occupying force.
And then the other anotherperson that Jesus called to be
(45:31):
in his 12 was Simon the zealot,which, as far as we understand,
like zealots, if Matthew workedfor a government, zealots blew
up big government, you know,like they were kind of looking
to undermine everything with theRoman occupation.
And so, boy, when you start tounderstand that, you can see how
(45:55):
there were times when and thisis recorded in Scripture they
would argue who's the greatestof the disciples?
And they get.
You know, the other discipleswould get mad at James and at
John when they, their mom kindof went to Jesus and said, hey,
can they sit left and right atyour throne?
(46:18):
Right, you know, sit at yourleft and right and yeah, so
maybe not all kumbaya around thecampfire with them, and yet
Jesus brings them together.
He loves them, he forgives themand empowers them to go out
into the world to share hisreconciling gospel.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Right and so, if he can do it there, so I love that.
Just to finish out, this is oneof the few.
No, I remember a lot of thingsfrom seminary, but I remember
having a number of those likeaha moments and I think it was
is in Mark's gospel or it'smaybe a couple.
I think it pops most in Mark'sgospel, but the right and left
(47:08):
conversation you know it's notfor me, this place has been
prepared by my father.
And then you moved I think it'sMark 15 into 16, and then they
hung right next to him two oneon his right and one on his left
.
So I mean, jesus is instillingin them, the father is
instilling in them the way ofthe cross, the humble journey of
(47:31):
sacrifice and suffering, takingthe low place rather than the
high place, man, if there aremore leaders living like that,
pastors and just everydayfollowers of Jesus man, the
world is so much, so much betterto have that posture of
humility.
Larry, this has been so muchfun.
Let's close with one lastquestion.
So we happen to be in theLutheran Church of Missouri
Synod this podcast will be outafter the Synod Convention, of
(47:54):
which I'm a delegate and prayingthat, as we have robust
conversation around a number ofdifferent issues, that we would
disagree agreeably and unitefrom that place to go on mission
as the Lutheran Church ofMissouri Synod in her various
contexts.
So, in your experience, whatare some of the strengths of the
Lutheran Church of MissouriSynod, and then some of her
struggles, and what are yourthoughts about, maybe, how, by
(48:17):
the Spirit's power connected tothe word, this trajectory of
decline could change into thenext generation?
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, so some of the strengths obviously our theology
right, and that's huge and whatwe believe, we teach and
confess, and also theinstitutional church, like hey,
there's a lot of things that arereally well structured, that
(48:45):
just help our church body to humright and to run.
But so we're really good at theorganized aspect.
My concern is maybe we've lostsome of the organic relational
components, whether that becongregations working with each
other or different circuitsworking with one another.
(49:11):
And what does it look like forus to work together?
Well, one conversation at atime, right, it's just, it's
talking, it's being willing to,if you will reach across the
aisle and, yeah, someone mighthave a different stance on
(49:35):
whatever the hot topic worshipissue is, or schooling issue or
whatever, but to be able to goout, have a meal with them, talk
about Jesus, build some trustand relationships, I think
that's huge.
And maybe the other thought isfor us to be able to embrace
(49:59):
kind of a both and approach toministry and mission.
Right, I'll admit, I'll confessthat, you know, when I started
kind of down this path lookinginto discipling, huddles and
missional communities and thatsort of stuff, there was an
(50:20):
element inside of me that I hadto repent of that sort of looked
at the establishedinstitutional church and was
like, ah, they just don't get itright.
No, no, that's not the case.
It's just there's differentways to reach different people.
We're in a changing times.
How can we embrace?
And who showed me that?
Your dad, right, like big,biggest, like you know.
(50:45):
He, you know, in many waysPeace Arvato is kind of your
typical suburban congregation,right, and we had your dad and I
had some different ideas on howto reach people, but he just
loved Jesus and wants people toknow the love of Jesus and that
just gushed out of him.
(51:06):
And so when I went and sat downand talked with him, he said
you go, he blessed me, heempowered me, he got the
congregation Peace Arvato kindof behind this and the kingdom
of God is blessed through that.
So, yeah, so that's I don'tknow my thought the more that we
(51:30):
can talk, it's great, it's areally good thing.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
So yeah, make me emotional.
They're talking about my dadman.
I'm proud of that dude, yeah.
Thank you so much, and the factthat he blessed you and cared
for you and has encouraged youdown through the years, like
he's done with so many.
That's a major reason why I dowhat I do today.
If I could be half the man halfthe leader that he is man.
(51:55):
I'd be all right.
That'd be all right.
So this has been so good.
Man, love you, love your family, love the mission Jesus has
called you to, and if peoplewant to connect with you or the
mission, summon the Alliance,how can they do so?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Yeah, they can email me at larryat
summonmissionallianceorg.
Or visit our websitewwwsummitmissionallianceorg.
And learn more about what we'redoing.
And would love to whether wehave a phone call or someone
happens to be in Breckenridgeand wants to grab coffee or
(52:28):
whatever.
Would love to get together.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
So it's not a sucky place to visit.
It's an awesome spot, man.
You get to live in paradise.
Now I'm not a cold weather guyso I'll stay down here, but, man
, we just went through thatregion.
Man, it's just spectacular Someof God's greatest work, for
sure.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day.
(52:52):
Please like, subscribe, share,comment, wherever it is.
I pray you found thisconversation hope filled.
More than that, jesus filled.
That's what I'm leaving thisman.
It's all about Jesus, the workand the way of Jesus and doing
whatever it takes to reachpeople with the story of Christ.
We'll be back next week with afresh episode of American
Reformation.
We'll see you then.
Thanks so much, larry.
(53:13):
Yeah, you're welcome, thank you.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, dude, I think you should follow us.
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