May 12, 2024 • 57 mins
When the dreams and promises you’ve placed your hopes in end up being a mirage, its only human to feel angry. In the mid 1970’s, a lot of teens and young adults found themselves in this camp. The nation’s shift toward a decidedly more cynical era could be heard in anti-war statements such as "War is not healthy for children and other living things" On the equal rights agenda, the demand for black civil rights encouraged a louder beating of the drum as seen in the rise of feminism. At the same time, both movements continued receiving backlash from the country’s conservatives, especially The "Silent Majority" campaign, responding to the ‘liberal excesses’ of the counterculture.
Running through everything, there was a feeling that the social changes that the ‘60s had promised were as far away as ever. America’s kids were caught in the cross-hairs. America was experiencing an epidemic of frustration, anxiety and anger.
With nothing to do, and a sense that the walls were closing in, teens living in places like New York, Detroit and Los Angeles, swam in an ocean of boredom and alienation that needed venting. Punk’s rawness and DIY attitude made it easy for anyone who had the need to hit back, or at least spit into the audience, to become an anti-hero.
In this first of two episodes on the origins of American Punk, we draw a through line from early New York proto-punk bands like the Velvet Underground, the MC5 and the New York Dolls through to California bands like X, Black Flag and the Dead Kennedy's. You'll come away understanding how the idealism of the 1960's gave way to the cynicism and anger of the 1970's punk movement. And yet, through it all, America's kids were still demanding change and even in the cynicism, holding out for something better.
In This Episode
- John Lennon - Give Me Some Truth
- Scene from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
- the Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter
- TV News – End of Vietnam War
- Scene from “Network”
- Scene from the Godfather
- The Clash – Police on My Back
- Pink Floyd – Have a Cigar
- The MC5 – Kick Out the Jams
- The Stooges – I Wanna Be Your Dog
- Iggy Pop – Interview
- The Velvet Underground – Venus in Furs
- The New York Dolls – Jet Boy
- David Bowie – Suffragette
- David Bowie – Interview
- Davie Bowie – Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
- David Bowie – Rock and Roll Suicide
- The Ramones – Blitzkrieg Bop
- The Ramones - Interview
Links to related show content from prior episodes
This episode refers back to a few topics covered in prior episodes.
We invite you to learn more about these ideas!
Use the links, below.
Minimalism
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/9672982-the-celestial-pulse-of-minimalism
The Blues
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/8276409-the-duality-of-the-blues-episode-7-of-american-song
Call and Response
https://americansong.buzzsprout.com/1622638/8532047-the-rising-of-gospel-music-and-how-it-inspired-the-world
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At the close of the 1960s, many of the strongest
influencers in the period'sidealism felt like you do the
morning after a real wild partyAll hungover, a taste in your
mouth.
That's a lot like an overfilledashtray and too much like you'd
been rolled over by a tank.
You can hear it in the thingspeople were saying at the time.
(00:21):
Things like the 60s ended atKent State.
That was Tom Wolfe.
The American dream became thenightmare.
That was Hunter S Thompson.
The 60s had the audacity tohope and that was its greatness.
But it didn't deliver.
Marlon Brando said that I wokeup this morning, found my head
(00:46):
was full of stars.
I said it's over, but my heartit wouldn't break.
That was Leonard Cohen and oneof the four lads who kicked off
the youth revolution to beginwith.
John Lennon said All I want isthe truth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight,
short-sighted, narrow-mindedhypocritics.
All I want is the truth.
Just give me some truth.
I've had enough of readingthings by neurotic, psychotic,
pig-headed politicians.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
All I want is the truth.
When the dreams and promisesthat you've placed your hopes in
end up being a mirage, it'sonly human to feel angry.
In the mid-1970s, a lot ofteens and young adults found
themselves in this camp.
The nation's shift toward adecidedly more cynical era could
(01:50):
be heard in anti-war statementssuch as war is not healthy for
children or other living things.
On the equal rights agenda, thedemand for black civil rights
encouraged a louder beating ofthe drum, as seen in the rise of
feminism.
At the same time, bothmovements continued receiving
backlash from the country'sconservatives, especially the
(02:14):
Silent Majority campaignresponding to the liberal
excesses of the counterculture.
Meanwhile, Hunter S Thompson'ssatire Fear and Loathing in Las
Vegas perfectly captured thedisillusionment and cynicism of
the 1970s.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We had two bags of grass, 75 pellets of mescaline,
five sheets of high-poweredblotter acid, a salt shaker,
half full of cocaine, a wholegalaxy of multicolcolored uppers
, downers, screamers, laughers.
Also a quarter tequila, quarterrum, case of beer, pint of raw
ether, two dozen amos.
Not that we need it all thatfor the trip, but once you get
(02:58):
locked into a serious drugcollection, the tendency is to
push it as far as you can.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Hot damn, I never rode in a convertible before.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
While on screen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with
Jack Nicholson was a classicfilm about mental health and
institutional oppression.
It resonated with the pervasiveanti-establishment sentiment of
film times.
But I gotta tell you I'm notsure which situation was worse
the one where Nurse Ratched wassicker than any of the inmates,
(03:38):
or the one where SouthernCalifornia's streets are chock
full of really sick people whoneed a hospital.
Regardless, they've all beenshuttered for years here in
California.
Socially, the country was tornover the war in Vietnam After
nearly ten years of demanding anend to it.
Sick of seeing their friendscome home with fewer limbs than
(04:02):
they left with, or worse, incoffins draped under red, white
and blue doilies, americans hadto watch the last of their
countrymen being picked up fromSaigon rooftops and helicoptered
to safety.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Tuesday, april 29th.
The streets of Saigon, usuallyjammed with traffic at the
morning rush hour, are quiet.
The attack by communistaircraft at Saigon's Tansunut
Airport the day before hasprompted a 24-hour curfew and
the only people on the streetsare ambulance drivers and
(04:43):
policemen.
On the streets are ambulancedrivers and policemen With
communist forces.
Only a few miles from thecenter of Saigon, the order to
evacuate American nationals isgiven.
Americans and citizens of thirdcountries who have been
guaranteed space on the airliftgather at assembly points for
(05:05):
the bus ride to Tan Son Nhatairport, but the buses have to
be abandoned when helicopters atTan Son Nhat come under fire
from both communist and SouthVietnamese troops.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
The resurgence of the far right could be heard in the
flood of media who rose tosupport those views.
On PBS, william F Buckley Jr'sshow Firing Line provided a
platform for conservativeintellectual arguments and
debates, challenging the commentthat liberal voices dominated
mainstream media and thenation's Bible thumpers were
(06:24):
represented by televangelistslike Pat Robertson, whose show
continued to grow in popularityduring the 1970s.
Robertson mixed religiousteachings with conservative
political commentary to activatea religious army of
evangelicals To get the truemeasure of things.
Realize that this segment wouldlikely be referred to as MAGA
(06:46):
these days, or, like I like tocall them, maggots.
Pat's audience was the seed ofMAGA.
Personally, I think the churchshould stay literally the hell
out of politics.
We don't need to turn Americainto a Christian theocracy.
You couldn't tune it outanywhere.
(07:06):
Even radio had lost ground tothe conservative voice, because
this was the era that birthedRush Limbaugh.
I say that even though his showdidn't officially start until
1988.
Rush's first success, though,came in the 1970s, and it laid
the groundwork for everythingthat unfortunately came after.
American conservatives receiveda full-on indoctrination in
(07:31):
conservative thinking from Rushand his blend of incendiary
intolerance and populist appealRunning through everything.
There was a feeling that thesocial changes that the 60s had
promised were as far away asever.
There was a feeling that thesocial changes that the 60s had
promised were as far away asever.
It wasn't long after TV camerasbeamed those images from Saigon
(07:52):
rooftops until Nixon'spresidency came crashing down
with the shameful Watergatescandal, and Mr I am not a crook
was proven to be exactly whathe said.
He wasn't.
President Ford only added tothe country's misery when he
pardoned Nixon.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
My fellow Americans our long national nightmare is
over.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Showing the country that there were actually two
different sets of laws in place,one for them and one for the
rest of us, and it seems we'rere-listening to that dialogue.
Today we might be getting asecond look at it, as Mr 91
Indictments and Counting waitsfor his day in court, something
that's coming later this month.
For Christmas, I'd like someoneto give him a brand new orange
(08:43):
wardrobe and a room with a viewof a prison yard.
Economically speaking, recordinflation and unemployment,
especially in the working class,widened the gap between the
haves and the have-nots.
The energy crisis strandedAmericans in long gas lines,
paying un unheard of prices forgas.
(09:05):
Thorny civil rights issues werestill forcing us to grapple over
diversity.
Issues like schooldesegregation, affirmative
action and voting rights, Toxicwaste in New Jersey's Love Canal
, oil spills in Santa Barbara,the highly publicized burning of
Ohio's Cuyahoga River and otherevents all raised public alarm.
(09:28):
Closer to home, the divorcerate was skyrocketing.
During the 70s, Americancouples split up at more than
twice the rate that they had inthe 60s.
Even in families where mom anddad stayed together, the
personal needs of each parentbecame more important, with
parents spending more time toclaim more of what they
(09:48):
individually thought wasimportant.
In the meantime, family harmonytook it in the shorts.
America's kids were caught inthe crosshairs.
America was experiencing anepidemic of frustration, anxiety
and anger.
I think this classic clip fromthe movie Network, performed by
the late actor Peter Finch,perfectly captured the spirit of
(10:12):
the age.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I don't have to tell you things are bad.
Everybody knows things are bad.
It's a depression.
Everybody's out of work orscared of losing their job.
The dollar buys a nickel'sworth, Banks are going bust,
Shopkeepers keep a gun under thecounter, Punks are running wild
in the street and there'snobody anywhere who seems to
know what to do.
And there's no end to it.
We know the air is unfit tobreathe and our food is unfit to
(10:39):
eat.
We sit watching our TVs whilesome local newscaster tells us
that today we had 15 homicidesand 63 violent crimes, as if
that's the way it's supposed tobe.
We know things are bad.
Worse than bad, they're crazy.
It's like everything everywhereis going crazy.
So we don't go out anymore.
We sit in the house and slowlythe world we're living in is
getting smaller and all we sayis please, at least leave us
(11:02):
alone in our living rooms.
Let me have my toaster and myTV and my steel-belted radios,
and I won't say anything.
Just leave us alone.
Well, I'm not going to leaveyou alone.
I want you to get mad.
I don't want you to protest.
I don't want you to riot.
I don't want you to write toyour congressman because I
wouldn't know what to tell youto write.
I don't know what to do aboutthe depression and the inflation
and the Russians and the crimein the street.
(11:23):
All I know is that first you'vegot to get mad.
You've got to say I'm a humanbeing, goddammit, my life has
value.
So I want you to get up now.
I want all of you to get up outof your chairs.
I want you to get up right nowand go to the window, open it
(11:46):
and stick your head out and yellI'm as mad as hell and I'm not
going to take this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
If things behind the front doors of American homes
were not real pretty, they suredidn't look any better once you
stepped off the front porcheither.
Thinking about this, it can'tbe a surprise that punk rose out
of big cities where bad timesfollowed White flight after the
folks that could afford it ranlike hell to the suburbs.
After that, the only thing leftbehind in the cities was crime
(12:18):
and desperation.
Some of the biggest movies ofthe 70s were studies of urban
decay in a growing sense thatAmerica's kinder, more innocent
days were lost forever.
A nasty, gritty world wasplayed out on the big screen in
period films like Taxi Driverwith Robert De Niro, where
violence captured the alienationand anger of 1970s city life,
(12:43):
and the Godfather.
It reflected the changing morallandscape of America in the
20th century.
Speaker 7 (13:05):
Don Pazzini I want to thank you for helping me
organize this meeting here todayand also the other heads of the
five families in New York andNew Jersey Carmine Cuneo from
(13:28):
the Bronx and Brooklyn, philipTattaglia from Staten Island.
We have with us Victor Strykeand all the other associates
that came as far as fromCalifornia, kansas City and all
the other territories of thecountry.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Thank you.
How did things ever get so far?
I don't know.
It was so unfortunate, sounnecessary.
Natalia lost her son and I losther son.
(14:09):
We're quits.
Speaker 9 (14:15):
And if Natalia agrees , then I'm willing to let things
go on the way they were before.
We are all grateful to DonCorleone for calling this
meeting.
We all know him as a man of hisword, a modest man.
He'll always listen to reason.
Yes, don.
Speaker 10 (14:26):
Barzini, he's too modest.
He had all the judges andpoliticians in his pocket.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
He refused to share them when, when did I ever
refuse an accommodation?
All of you know me here.
When did I ever refuse, exceptone time?
Why?
Because I believe this drugbusiness is going to destroy us
(14:55):
in the years to come.
I mean, it's not like gamblingor liquor, even women, which is
something that most people wantnowadays, and it's forbidden to
them by the Pets and Avanti ofthe church.
Even the police departmentsthat have helped us in the past
with gambling and other thingsare going to refuse to help us
when it comes to narcotics.
(15:15):
And I believed that then and Ibelieve that now.
Speaker 9 (15:22):
Times have changed.
It's not like the old dayswhere we can do anything we want
.
A refusal is not the act of afriend.
If Don Corleone had all thejudges and the politicians in
New York, then he must sharethem.
All he loved was you, sir.
He share them.
All he loves is using them.
He must let us draw the waterfrom the well.
Certainly he can present a billfor such services.
(15:46):
After all, we are notcommunists.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
I also don't believe in drugs.
For years I paid my peopleextra so they wouldn't do that
kind of business.
Somebody comes to them and saysI have powders.
If you put up three, fourthousand dollar investment we
can make fifty thousanddistributing.
So they can't resist.
I want to control it as abusiness To keep it respectable.
(16:17):
I don't want it near schools.
I don't want it sold tochildren.
That's an infirmia in my city.
We would keep the traffic inthe dark people to call it.
They're animals anyway, so letthem lose their souls.
Speaker 8 (16:44):
I hope that we could come here and reason together
and as a reasonable man, I'mwilling to do whatever is
necessary to find a peacefulsolution to this problem.
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Then we are agreed, the traffic and drugs will be
permitted, but controlled, andDon Corleone will give her
protection in the east and therewill be the peace.
Speaker 10 (17:01):
But I must have strict assurance from Corleone
as time goes by and his positionbecomes stronger, will he
attempt any individual vendetta?
Speaker 9 (17:10):
Look, we are all reasonable men here we don't
have to give assurances as if wewere lawyers.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
You talk about vengeance.
Is vengeance going to bringyour son back to you or my boy
to me?
I forgot the vengeance of myson, but I have selfish reasons.
(17:47):
My younger son is supposed toleave this country because of
this Salazzo business.
All right, I have to makearrangements to bring him back
here safely, clear of all thesefalse charges.
But I'm a superstitious man andif some unlucky accident should
(18:13):
befall him, if he should getshot in the head by a police
officer, or if he should hanghimself in his jail cell, or if
he should get shot in the headby a police officer, or if he
should hang himself in his jailcell, or if he's struck by a
bolt of lightning and I'm goingto blame some of the people in
this room and that I do notforgive.
But that aside, let me say thatI swear on the soul of my
(18:46):
grandchildren that I will not bethe one to break the peace
we've made here today.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So, as much as punk reflected a new reality in the
nation, musically it continuedAmerica's musical evolution.
And another unpredictable forkin the road there was a clear
line of descent.
You can hear a connectionbetween punk's insistent vocals
and the strength of Bessie Smithwas a clear line of dissent.
You can hear a connectionbetween punk's insistent vocals
and the strength of Bessie Smith.
Or the blitzkrieg guitar thrashof Billy Zoom or Steve Jones
(19:25):
and blues great Howlin' Wolf,with nothing to do and a sense
that the walls were closing in,teens living in places like New
York, detroit and Los Angelesswam in a notion of boredom and
alienation that needed venting.
Punk's rawness and DIY attitudemade it easy for anyone who had
(19:47):
the need to hit back or atleast spit into the audience to
become an anti-hero.
Punk's rebelliousness had acommon spirit with early rock
and roll and artists like ChuckBerry and Elvis Presley.
You can see it splayed outright in the open if you compare
the album covers from theClash's album London Calling and
Elvis Presley's first record.
(20:08):
And while Elvis remained acountry boy at heart, punk's
dedication to defying socialnorms to be your authentic self
had early role models likeLittle Richard.
Punk rock intentionally took asharp right turn off the trend
line.
Music had been steadily movingin since at least the late 1940s
(20:29):
, and thank God too, becauserock had lost its urgency and
rebellion that had inspired the60s to be what they had been.
Without that inspiration, therenever would have been a Bob
Dylan or a Mick Jagger, nor aJames Brown or a Pete Townsend.
Neither would you have hadJanis Joplin, tina Turner or
(20:51):
Grace Slick, for that matter.
But by the 70s, the electricitythat had supercharged the 60s
had dissipated.
Instead, teens were served up,the likes of the Osmonds and the
Captain Antonio.
Even in its crunchier moments,70s rock acquired the term
(22:05):
corporate rock, thank you.
Bands like Journey andForeigner and Boston were more
like money-making brands or evenrecord label ATM machines
playing music with the musicallychallenged.
Instead of offering the latestgeneration of record buyers the
(22:26):
authentically passionate realdeal that guys like Dylan or the
Beatles had once given them,for every authentic rocker like
Springsteen, there was a poserlike Barry Manilow we used to
call him barely man enough orDan Fogelmer, which is fine if
you're drooling into the sink inthe dentist's chair, but lousy
(22:47):
if you need something thatmatches the messed up way you're
feeling inside.
And even the more provocativemusic from the likes of Kiss or
Alice Cooper was literally justplay acting.
Likes of Kiss or Alice Cooperwas literally just play acting.
But to be honest, for those whohad been paying any attention,
the seeds of the cynicism andfrustration that was in full
bloom when punk finally explodedwere already in their germ
(23:10):
states in the 60s.
For instance, I'm thinkingabout the Beatles' wide album
and Lennon's song Happiness is aWarren Gun.
And although the Beatles couldnever have been a punk band,
other late 60s and early 70sbands did at least point in
punk's direction.
A couple examples will help here.
(23:30):
Before punk came proto-punk.
Of course, as Chrissy Hine putsit, these things never develop
that way.
First up, the Sonics.
(23:57):
They were a band from Tacoma,washington, and were one of the
pioneers of garage rock.
So this is their song the Witch.
It's a true garage rock classic.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Oh, she'll put you down Cause she's an evil chick.
Say she's the witch.
She got a long black hair and abig black car.
I know what you're thinking,but you won't get far.
(24:31):
She's gonna make you laughCause she's the witch.
Right now, right now, right now, it's time to Take out the jams
.
Motherfucker, jams, jams, I'mgonna, I'm gonna kick your ass.
(25:04):
Yeah, well, I feel pretty goodand I guess that I'm good, good,
crazy.
Now, baby, cause we all got ittuned and when the dust and roof
got hazy, now, baby, and thenthere was the MC5, mc for Motor
City.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
They were a band from obviously Detroit.
They came literally kicking andscreaming from Detroit's
proto-pixels.
They added political activismto the Sonics Garage band Fury.
Let's check out their song KickOut the Jams, but baby you
can't do it without.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
When you get the feeling you've got, it's like
I'm on with that mic in my handand let me kick out the jam.
(26:03):
Yeah, kick out the jam.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Let's kick it out.
It's a powerful manifesto forsocial change.
Like the punks that followed,mc5 used raw language and
imagery to make their pointsSonically.
Their aggressive, unrefinedsound also made a statement.
They were intentionally loud,rough and angsty.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Thank you, so messed up.
I want you here In my room.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I want you here.
The Stooges, the band'sfrontman, iggy Pop, might be the
original punker, and his band,the Stooges, paved the way for
punk rock with their aggressivesound and confrontational stage
presence.
I mean in their time, the late1960s and early early 70s,
(27:37):
people were not quite ready forwhat the stooges regularly
served up diving into theaudience, inciting mosh pits,
slashing himself with brokenglass, you could say.
Iggy was able to hold anaudience's attention pretty well
and then combine the visualwith songs like this one, I
(27:58):
Wanna Be your Dog, which isabout rebellion, sex and
frustration.
The Stooges made a lot ofpeople squirm, which was exactly
the thing that they were goingfor.
So here's Iggy from aninterview.
Speaker 13 (28:13):
Thank you very much for being here.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (28:15):
I was reading your book last night and it a very
interesting uh piece of work youput together.
You were ray, born and rearedand uh um but and you lived in a
lived in a trailer, right yeah,yeah and I haven't grown up in
a trailer.
Does it have any thoughts thatthat affects a person one way or
the other, as opposed to livingin a stationary house?
Speaker 14 (28:32):
yeah, absolutely, because you know, because
everybody.
Well, first of all, like youknow, there's like trash.
You ever heard the trailer?
No, no, well, it's a kind of afly-by-night connotation, and
plus things like if your dadwalks in the front door right
and he closes the door, thehouse shakes a little bit, so
it's kind of like God is home.
(28:53):
No, I didn't Did they ever.
No, it's I don't know.
I'm glad I did, you know, atleast it made me different.
Speaker 13 (29:12):
But at the time, was it affecting you adversely with
your peers or it was no bigdeal?
Speaker 14 (29:16):
Well, not with my peers, just with the PRI, et
cetera that I went to schoolwith, you know.
Now tell me about also I kindof liked it because it was like
ahead of its time.
You know, yeah, my father's avisionary.
Speaker 13 (29:34):
Do they still live in a house fairly?
Speaker 14 (29:36):
No, they just sold it just a few months ago and
they've moved down to somewherein the Carolinas.
Speaker 13 (29:45):
Tell me about hurting yourself on stage and
cutting yourself and thentossing yourself into the
audience.
Is that still Well, okay?
Speaker 14 (29:54):
first, yeah, tom Snyder asked me about that.
No, it never did hurt.
You know, it's a funny thingabout the.
It's a funny thing about, like,you know, you get a good band,
you know, and you get themcooking and if the beat's right
and it's a good riff, likenothing hurts.
So you know, it's sort of ayou're getting a bit of a state
(30:15):
you know, I suppose it has to dowith your adrenaline, but a bit
of a a state, you know, Isuppose it has to do with the
adrenaline, but uh, butafterwards, sometimes, sometimes
, sometimes you know it would,it would be just just the sort
of thing like I had to get a newtooth for your show this
morning.
It was a real pain, you know,because because otherwise I
(30:36):
wouldn't be able to, but butthat was just a sheer accident.
Where I was, I was getting sointo it that I just smushed the
mic in my in my tooth by mistake.
But then other times, you know,I'd, I'd sort of uh, just fling
myself at the audience because,uh, because, of their
indifference.
Speaker 13 (30:51):
tell me, oh, okay, now, now, uh, in the book you
described the first time youreally started to to yourself
with drumsticks.
You were drumming then, right,yeah, and you were kind of no.
Speaker 14 (31:00):
no, that was no.
I was singing by that time.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
Okay, now tell me about the time that you, the
first decision, the first timeyou made the decision to jump
into the audience.
Speaker 14 (31:09):
To cross the proscenium, as it were.
Yes, okay, there were threestages to that.
The Okay, there were threestages to that.
The very first time I did it.
It was the second gig I'd everplayed in my life and I opened
up for Frank Zappa in theMother's Invention and I knew he
(31:29):
was going to be interesting.
And it was about 15 minutesinto my set and it was going
nowhere and so I thought what amI going to do?
Listen, you know, there's like,uh, there's like 15 000 bands
here in the detroit area, justone place to play.
You know, uh, I gotta stand outright.
So, uh, like, uh, just like alittle kid, like you know it's a
bit hebephrenic.
(31:49):
I mean, like, uh, I just sortof went like have you ever seen
when little kids don't getattention and they just go like
yeah, like that, and pretendthey're gonna fall on the floor?
Well, I really did, yeah, youknow, and that that's that
created a stir now, what did youland on?
Speaker 13 (32:06):
did you just go right on?
Speaker 14 (32:07):
over.
Well, it was funny, I what Iplanned, I'd planned to land on
I I sort of spotted a pair ofvery plump boys young ladies it
and it was my intention thatthey would be best suited to
cushion the fall.
But I didn't, you know, Ididn't reckon.
(32:29):
I figured they'd be lucky.
You know They'd be lucky.
I was like you know Part of theshow sure?
Well, you know too.
I mean, they weren't like youknow, they weren't ravingly
attractive or anything.
So I figured, you know, maybethey'd like some company.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
But instead they just Probably one of the earliest
recognizable punk influences wasLou Reed and his band, the
Velvet Underground.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
shiny shiny, shiny boots of leather with flash girl
(33:18):
child in the dark comes andbells your servant, don't
forsake him.
Strive dear mistress and curehis heart.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Founded by Reed, who was vocals, guitar and keyboards
, and John Cale on bass,keyboards and viola of all
things in New York City in 1965.
By the end of the year theyadded Sterling Morrison on
guitar and Maureen Tucker ondrums.
Their song Heroin, was writtenfrom the point of view of an
(33:58):
addict.
We're listening to Venus andFurs, a song about sadomasochism
.
Everything about this band wasintended to provoke a response.
As well as being forerunners ofpunk, the Velvet Underground
also pioneered a path into theavant-garde that later punks
followed.
It obviously opened doors fortheir collaboration with Andy
(34:21):
Warhol, and each of the four hadtheir own place in New York's
arts scene.
Reed, the band's poet, hadstudied literature at Syracuse
and had been influenced by poetDelmore Schwartz.
You can see that influence inLou's fascination with urban
alienation and existentialism.
John Cale had trained as aclassic musician but was also
(34:45):
immersed in the minimalist andavant-garde music scene.
Kale also played in LamontYoung's Theater of Eternal Music
, known for its pioneering droneand extended duration
compositions, and then guitaristand sometimes bass player
whenever Kale was on viola.
Sterling Morrison was into thevisual arts, especially
(35:08):
experimental film.
He had also gone to Syracusewith Lou Mo Tucker.
The VU's drummer also had aclassical music background like
Hale.
His avant-garde approach topercussion showed the strong
influence of John Cage and otherminimalist composers.
By the way, if you'reinterested in learning more
(35:29):
about minimalism, check out myepisode 15 from season one, the
Celestial Pulse of Minimalism.
There's a link in today's shownotes for that.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
Severin, Severin, it's no when I'm gone.
Speaker 12 (35:54):
It's all my fault.
Oh, why did I just fall?
(36:15):
I'd be the same.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Oh, I needed to be the same.
The famous pop artist AndyWarhol you've probably seen his
paintings Campbell's Soup, cansor Maryland Diptych was the
Underground's major patron andhe probably had the greatest
influence on their development.
The VU did a number of mixedmedia shows called the Exploding
Plastic Inevitable thatcombined the band, a
(36:38):
pseudo-singer, german fashionmodel named Miko, some of Andy's
films dancing, an elaboratelight show and even the audience
themselves via liveinterviewing during their
performances.
Everything about the shows wasintended to shock audiences
Bizarre lighting, jarring music,blatantly sexual questions
(37:01):
asked of the audience whiletheir reactions were taped,
entirely disarming.
At first, these things becameexpected elements of future punk
rock concerts.
Speaker 12 (37:14):
Oh, she's really doing her thing.
Watch that speed break.
Watch that speed break.
It's gonna go and make it everyweek.
(37:45):
Oh, it's gonna go, everybody'sgonna go kill them all.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's gonna, it's gonna, everybody's gonna.
It comes here, it comes.
Everybody.
(38:58):
Get up, don't make me run, doit.
©.
Bf-watch TV 2021.
Guitar solo.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
And yet another proto-punk band from the early
70s.
The New York Dolls were anotherNew York band, although their
influence never went much beyondManhattan at the time.
Today, fans look back and theyappreciate how the Dolls helped
pave the way for music.
Their music was a blend of boththe trends in boy-girl-themed
(39:33):
pop music and pessimistic socialcommentary.
This is their song from 73called Jet Boy, blending glam
and proto-punk.
Jet Boy is about adolescentrebellion and sexual awakening.
It's a song that pushesboundaries with its suggestive
lyrics and energetic rock soundKnown for manic screaming
(39:55):
another trend that punk followed.
They also got a lot ofattention for the clothes they
wore.
The mildest way that you candescribe it is androgynous.
The band was managed by MalcolmMcLaren, who, of course,
managed the Sex Pistols.
It was McLaren that pushed thedolls even further to the
fringes, like the concert thatthey performed with
(40:16):
communist-themed clothes andprops.
The great rock and rollphotographer Bob Gruen, famous
for his photos of legends likeJohn Iñigo, the Rolling Stones,
zeppelin, david Bowie, tinaTurner, blondie, the Ramones,
patti Smith, the Sex Pistols,kiss and loads more, explained
(40:40):
why the New York Dolls neverbecame a bigger band.
He said If you wanted to workin the music business, you
didn't go around admitting thatyou saw the New York Dolls.
That was like admitting thatyou had friends who were
homosexual.
It was not popular in themainstream.
Uh judgmental, are we?
Nothing quite like a New YorkDolls show had ever been
(41:02):
attempted before.
In Rome the band members brokenew ground in sexual ambiguity.
The guys wore dresses, highheels, fishnet stockings, ripped
jeans, leather jackets andoutlandish makeup.
They pushed boundaries andattracted attention with their
visual presentation.
But it wasn't just aboutfashion.
They also carved out their ownniche and stage presence too.
(41:24):
Their lead singer, davidJohansson, frequently climbed up
into the stage lights or threwhimself into the crowd.
The band did dance moves,dramatic gestures and loads of
audience interaction.
Moving beyond simpleentertainment, the Dolls' live
shows challenged societal normsabout masculinity, sexuality and
performance.
(41:44):
They injected raw energy andtheatricality into the rock and
roll scene.
In many ways the New York Dollsgave birth to glamour.
Bowie was a regular at thoseearly Dolls shows in the city
(42:08):
between 71 and 73, where heburied himself in their raw
energy and theatricality.
He called the Dolls one of thegreatest rock and roll bands in
the world and said they werequote an inspiration.
You can hear that influence inhis music when you listen back
to Ziggy Stardust or AladdinSane, I said hey, man you know
(42:35):
my school is insane.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I said, hey, man, well, my work's on the train.
I said, hey, man, well, she's atotal man.
Now she's searching out a spaceadventure Adventure.
I don't need a lonely man toshake everybody's head.
I'm talking something to thecity.
I don't need a lonely man toshake everybody's head.
I'm talking something to theman.
I'm a million-dollar man.
I'm a million-dollar man.
I'm a million-dollar man.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I'm a million-dollar man Albums that coincided with
the Doll's Peak.
This was also the period whenBowie turned away from his early
folk-inspired music towards aheavier sound with Axeman Mick
Bronson on lead.
Like on this song, Sub SuburbanCity, from the rise and fall of
Ziggy Stardust and the Spidersfrom Mars.
In his Ziggy character, Bowiecreated a rock star from Mars,
(43:42):
sent as a messianic messenger toEarth, who carried a message of
hope and salvation to a dyingplanet.
Unfortunately, this anti-herotook a tragic turn and succumbed
to fame and self-destruction.
Speaker 11 (43:57):
I wanted to write theatrical things.
Actually, strangely enough well, maybe it's not so strange when
you look at it in context butwhen I was around 17, 18, what I
wanted to do more than anythingelse was write something for
Broadway.
I wanted to write a musical.
I had no idea of how you did itor how musicals were
constructed, but the idea ofwriting something that was
(44:18):
rock-based for Broadway reallyintriguing.
I thought that would be awonderful thing to do and I saw
myself as somebody who wouldkind of end up writing musicals
in a way, probably rock musicalsof some nature.
But it never actually becamethat.
So they were.
In a way.
Those ideas were kind of quasheda little bit when I realised
(44:39):
what a huge and vicious thingthat was to take on, because you
have to write dialogue and allthat and I really didn't know
how to approach that.
So I took a far simpler courseand kind of abbreviated the idea
of musical into just a conceptpiece for an album and created
the characters to go with thedifferent albums.
And in the process of doingthat I found that I was actually
(45:00):
playing around with the musicthat I was writing more and more
.
So it really was characterdriven.
That actually started tointerfere with the music in a
good way, and my interesteventually became just the music
itself.
Speaker 9 (45:15):
So it's almost like I left a lot of the theatrical
ambitions behind when I reallygot involvedgy Stardust is a
(45:57):
classic illustration, so howmuch of Davy Jones?
Was he Ziggy?
Speaker 11 (46:02):
Stardust.
I like Ziggy personally, ZiggyStardust.
In fact that was going to be mynext project was Ziggy Stardust
.
I don't think there was verymuch at all.
I mean, I honestly I was justtrying to create an idea of how
to expand rock and expand thehorizons of it, and I took as
the alien form for Ziggy as hewas supposed to be an alien of
(46:25):
some kind, I based him very muchon the Japanese concept.
At that particular time, in theearly 70s, we knew so little
about japan, and japan reallyhadn't exploited itself and
brought its stuff over to thewest, you know.
So it still seemed like analien society, but it was a
human alien society.
So the big you could make ahuman connection to um japan,
(46:48):
far, far more than you could sayto mars, which would be, you
know, just beyond um so how easywas it to leave the character
behind?
you killed him off soemphatically yeah, I didn't have
a problem with it.
I really didn't, because Ireally wanted to move on.
In 73 we'd uh, you know,incredible, the whole thing
lasted only for 18 months.
(47:09):
In all that, I mean, it's justincredible.
We did one year's worth oftours.
We never even played europe.
We played england and thestates I should have killed my
manager.
We never played europe, neverplayed australia, and it was
over.
It was just over.
I decided that's enough, Idon't want to get, you know,
imprisoned by all this, and Imean I because I really wanted
to.
Towards the last two or threemonths of the whole Ziggy tour,
(47:32):
I'd already kind of decided whatI wanted to do and what I
wanted to write.
So for me it was justabsolutely necessary to move on.
And what was behind theandrogynous images of the 70s?
It just seemed so perfectwithin the time that that really
represented what the 70s wasall about.
There was such a feeling comingout of the 50s and into the 60s
(47:56):
.
There was a real opening up ofuh attitudes.
In the 60s and then the 70s,everything became.
It was the pluralistic 70s.
You know, there were so manysides to a story in the 70s
before.
In the 50s it was just blackand white.
It was one story yes and onestory no.
But in the 50s it was justblack and white.
It was one story yes and onestory no.
But in the 70s you could lookat things in so many different
ways.
Nothing was right.
The idea of absolutes was kindof starting to disappear.
(48:19):
It wasn't a this is the rightway.
This is the wrong way, and Ijust felt that it really summed
up the whole of what the 70swere going to be about.
It was a guess and it was agood one.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Drawing from his New York Dolls experiences, bowie
injected Ziggy with the doll'sandrogyny.
Ziggy's look challenged gendernorms with makeup, flamboyant
costumes and ambiguous sexuality.
Ziggy wore his hair in adramatic, bright red mullet with
long flowing strands and spikes.
To give Ziggy his otherworldlypersona, bowie applied heavy
(49:10):
white foundation, brighteyeshadow, dramatic eyeliner and
painted lightning bolts downhis cheeks.
And an alien rocker is going tohave clothes to die for, isn't
he?
So Ziggy's clothes were akaleidoscope of color and
extravagance.
He wore bold jumpsuits,glittering bodysuits, dramatic
capes, flamboyant jackets, justabout everything from satin and
(49:31):
velvet and studded with sequinsand geometric patterns and
futuristic designs.
And Ziggy accessorizedKnee-high boots, platform shoes,
mismatched socks.
Speaker 10 (49:48):
All of that added to his unique style.
Oh no, no, no, you're a rockand roll suicide.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Ending the Ziggy story with a suicide, bowie made
it a commentary on rock androll, alienation, fame and the
dangers of excess.
Ziggy the alien who fell toEarth became a tragic anti-hero
who, despite his flaws andeventual downfall, remained a
sympathetic figure who struggledwith identity and his own
mortality.
(50:14):
And because he did that, ziggyultimately stood for the rock
stars themselves.
So all these bands that we'vebeen talking about here paved
the way for punk, and by 74 or75, new York City's punk rock
scene was on the rise.
Bands like the Ramones New YorkCity's punk rock scene was on
the rise.
Bands like the Ramones, theTalking Heads, blondie and other
(50:37):
groups that would becomepillars in the scene all played
regular sets in clubs aroundtown.
As these musicians and thelifestyle rose up, it shook the
foundations of the musicindustry.
Suddenly, bands like yes andPink Floyd, who had been at the
top of the industry, were now,all of a sudden, yesterday's
news.
Punk also left an indelible markon culture and society.
(50:59):
The immediate impact was mostof the adult world was in
disgust.
Parents were slack-jawed andgobsmacked.
Yes, indeed, in a totallyunexpected way, rock and roll
was boomerang, right back to itsprimitive Stone Age days.
Again.
The longer-term impact andwe'll see this in later episodes
(51:21):
was that punk was like a forestfire After it had burned
everything in its path, a bunchof new bands and new forms
sprang out of the forest clay.
But, like I said, more on thatin future episodes hey ho, let's
(51:43):
go.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Oh, it is a night.
You're going through the timeWatch.
You get to lose a memory.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
You are, of course, listening to the Ramones, and
this is their song let's GreetBuck.
Listening to the Ramones, andthis is their song Blitzkrieg
Bop.
Hailing from Queens, new York,the Ramones were pioneers of
punk.
With this simple rallying cry,the Ramones ushered in their
first album and subsequentlyrevolutionized American rock and
roll.
In the space of just 14 sharptracks, for a growing crowd of
(52:49):
disaffected teens, rock hadturned into a musical desert
filled with dust, disco and anoccasional desert tortoise.
And then suddenly it's hey ho,let's go, and the Ramones were
on their way to becoming one ofthe most influential bands ever.
Recorded on a shoestring,probably a Doc Martens budget of
(53:13):
just over six grand is thatpunk rock or what?
And released on April 23rd 76,the Ramones packed 14 rockers
into two sides of vinyl, most ofthem under two minutes each.
The longest tune, thepsychological creep fest of I
don't want to go down to thebasement, clocks in at 2 minutes
(53:35):
and 39 seconds.
The shortest, judy is a Punk.
An ode to young offendersblasts forth for a mere minute
and 32 seconds theself-explanatory.
Now I want to sniff some glue.
All 1 minute and 35 seconds ofit is atypical in that it
contains a rare guitar solo.
(53:59):
This is ultra lean, no fat onthe bone, rock and roll.
Here's the Ramones in aninterview from the Tomorrow Show
.
Speaker 15 (54:11):
I'm talking to the Ramones right now Joey, johnny,
stevie and Marky.
You have your people here withyou.
You got the best names in theworld, you know?
Yeah, I guess.
So they love you and, by theway, your names aren't really
Ramone, you just didn't know.
It's a coincidence.
It's a coincidence, it just allhappened.
Speaker 12 (54:27):
When we met in the elevator, we all had the same
last name.
Speaker 15 (54:30):
You never give your real names, but you don't want
your mothers to be subjected tothat Disgrace.
Right, right my mother justleft the country.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
you know how did you get together?
We started like summer of 1974,and we grew up together, lived
in the same block.
We were friends, something Ialways wanted to do.
Speaker 9 (54:54):
It's an unnatural phenomenon Can you see, yes,
don't do it there, it's not theright spot you know, all right
and, by the way you know, I wasmeaning to get out of
Speaker 12 (55:02):
here I kind of did.
Speaker 15 (55:04):
You didn't have time .
Speaker 12 (55:05):
No, it's too many things to do, you know.
Speaker 15 (55:08):
You started back in the mid-70s.
I want to know.
Speaker 13 (55:11):
I was going to type out a lyric sheet for you
tonight.
I haven't we want the airways.
Speaker 15 (55:15):
This business is killing me.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
The Ku.
Speaker 15 (55:20):
Klux Klan is stealing my baby away.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Teenage lobotomy.
Speaker 15 (55:24):
You got it all.
I got it, I got it and you'redoing really well with it.
Speaker 5 (55:27):
But you started punk kind of Well, well, well, we
consider it, consider it agenuine rock and roll.
Rock and roll was meant forpunks and, uh, that's what
started I guess, yeah, but punkis an answer to all the glitter
and the stuff that cuts a lot ofpunk is just a rebellious rock
(55:48):
for all kids uh, all of them.
Real rock and roll is punk, nota bunch of old men playing
music for your mothers andfathers.
That's what you have now, whatthey call rock.
For instance yeah, styx KansasFarn stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (56:04):
Your parents should listen to this.
Speaker 15 (56:05):
Is it mellowing out my mom?
Speaker 6 (56:07):
doesn't even listen to that.
Speaker 15 (56:08):
She thinks that your mother's more hip than that,
yeah, it's just.
Speaker 5 (56:12):
They just want to clean up music and just push
mediocrity on the public.
Speaker 15 (56:18):
So you're back to your tattered jeans and your
sneakers and your leatherjackets and nothing fancy.
Speaker 5 (56:25):
Well, we just wanted to be real.
We wanted to be ourselves andnot put on a bunch of phony
clothes.
Speaker 15 (56:30):
Yeah, but wait a minute now.
Is this real?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, ourselvesand not, uh, put on a bunch of
phony clothes, yeah, but wait aminute now.
Speaker 5 (56:35):
Is this real well?
We wore.
Speaker 15 (56:36):
We wore what we always wore yeah no, but isn't
this a uniform too?
Speaker 14 (56:39):
I mean, we went over it when we started the group,
we were talking about what wewere going to wear.
Uh-huh you know, when westarted thinking about it and we
just decided to wear what wehad.
This is what we were wearingbefore we were in the band.
We were thinking of gettingdressed up and all that too, you
know, and then we decided notto All the big rock stars are
wearing what we're wearing nowlike Billy Joel, the one with
(57:03):
the love of jazz.
At the close of the 1960s, many of the strongest
influencers in the period'sidealism felt like you do the
morning after a real wild partyAll hungover, a taste in your
mouth.
That's a lot like an overfilledashtray and too much like you'd
been rolled over by a tank.
You can hear it in the thingspeople were saying at the time.
(00:21):
Things like the 60s ended atKent State.
That was Tom Wolfe.
The American dream became thenightmare.
That was Hunter S Thompson.
The 60s had the audacity tohope and that was its greatness.
But it didn't deliver.
Marlon Brando said that I wokeup this morning, found my head
(00:46):
was full of stars.
I said it's over, but my heartit wouldn't break.
That was Leonard Cohen and oneof the four lads who kicked off
the youth revolution to beginwith.
John Lennon said All I want isthe truth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight,
short-sighted, narrow-mindedhypocritics.
All I want is the truth.
Just give me some truth.
I've had enough of readingthings by neurotic, psychotic,
pig-headed politicians.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
All I want is the truth.
When the dreams and promisesthat you've placed your hopes in
end up being a mirage, it'sonly human to feel angry.
In the mid-1970s, a lot ofteens and young adults found
themselves in this camp.
The nation's shift toward adecidedly more cynical era could
(01:50):
be heard in anti-war statementssuch as war is not healthy for
children or other living things.
On the equal rights agenda, thedemand for black civil rights
encouraged a louder beating ofthe drum, as seen in the rise of
feminism.
At the same time, bothmovements continued receiving
backlash from the country'sconservatives, especially the
(02:14):
Silent Majority campaignresponding to the liberal
excesses of the counterculture.
Meanwhile, Hunter S Thompson'ssatire Fear and Loathing in Las
Vegas perfectly captured thedisillusionment and cynicism of
the 1970s.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We had two bags of grass, 75 pellets of mescaline,
five sheets of high-poweredblotter acid, a salt shaker,
half full of cocaine, a wholegalaxy of multicolcolored uppers
, downers, screamers, laughers.
Also a quarter tequila, quarterrum, case of beer, pint of raw
ether, two dozen amos.
Not that we need it all thatfor the trip, but once you get
(02:58):
locked into a serious drugcollection, the tendency is to
push it as far as you can.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Hot damn, I never rode in a convertible before.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
While on screen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with
Jack Nicholson was a classicfilm about mental health and
institutional oppression.
It resonated with the pervasiveanti-establishment sentiment of
film times.
But I gotta tell you I'm notsure which situation was worse
the one where Nurse Ratched wassicker than any of the inmates,
(03:38):
or the one where SouthernCalifornia's streets are chock
full of really sick people whoneed a hospital.
Regardless, they've all beenshuttered for years here in
California.
Socially, the country was tornover the war in Vietnam After
nearly ten years of demanding anend to it.
Sick of seeing their friendscome home with fewer limbs than
(04:02):
they left with, or worse, incoffins draped under red, white
and blue doilies, americans hadto watch the last of their
countrymen being picked up fromSaigon rooftops and helicoptered
to safety.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Tuesday, april 29th.
The streets of Saigon, usuallyjammed with traffic at the
morning rush hour, are quiet.
The attack by communistaircraft at Saigon's Tansunut
Airport the day before hasprompted a 24-hour curfew and
the only people on the streetsare ambulance drivers and
(04:43):
policemen.
On the streets are ambulancedrivers and policemen With
communist forces.
Only a few miles from thecenter of Saigon, the order to
evacuate American nationals isgiven.
Americans and citizens of thirdcountries who have been
guaranteed space on the airliftgather at assembly points for
(05:05):
the bus ride to Tan Son Nhatairport, but the buses have to
be abandoned when helicopters atTan Son Nhat come under fire
from both communist and SouthVietnamese troops.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
The resurgence of the far right could be heard in the
flood of media who rose tosupport those views.
On PBS, william F Buckley Jr'sshow Firing Line provided a
platform for conservativeintellectual arguments and
debates, challenging the commentthat liberal voices dominated
mainstream media and thenation's Bible thumpers were
(06:24):
represented by televangelistslike Pat Robertson, whose show
continued to grow in popularityduring the 1970s.
Robertson mixed religiousteachings with conservative
political commentary to activatea religious army of
evangelicals To get the truemeasure of things.
Realize that this segment wouldlikely be referred to as MAGA
(06:46):
these days, or, like I like tocall them, maggots.
Pat's audience was the seed ofMAGA.
Personally, I think the churchshould stay literally the hell
out of politics.
We don't need to turn Americainto a Christian theocracy.
You couldn't tune it outanywhere.
(07:06):
Even radio had lost ground tothe conservative voice, because
this was the era that birthedRush Limbaugh.
I say that even though his showdidn't officially start until
1988.
Rush's first success, though,came in the 1970s, and it laid
the groundwork for everythingthat unfortunately came after.
American conservatives receiveda full-on indoctrination in
(07:31):
conservative thinking from Rushand his blend of incendiary
intolerance and populist appealRunning through everything.
There was a feeling that thesocial changes that the 60s had
promised were as far away asever.
There was a feeling that thesocial changes that the 60s had
promised were as far away asever.
It wasn't long after TV camerasbeamed those images from Saigon
(07:52):
rooftops until Nixon'spresidency came crashing down
with the shameful Watergatescandal, and Mr I am not a crook
was proven to be exactly whathe said.
He wasn't.
President Ford only added tothe country's misery when he
pardoned Nixon.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
My fellow Americans our long national nightmare is
over.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Showing the country that there were actually two
different sets of laws in place,one for them and one for the
rest of us, and it seems we'rere-listening to that dialogue.
Today we might be getting asecond look at it, as Mr 91
Indictments and Counting waitsfor his day in court, something
that's coming later this month.
For Christmas, I'd like someoneto give him a brand new orange
(08:43):
wardrobe and a room with a viewof a prison yard.
Economically speaking, recordinflation and unemployment,
especially in the working class,widened the gap between the
haves and the have-nots.
The energy crisis strandedAmericans in long gas lines,
paying un unheard of prices forgas.
(09:05):
Thorny civil rights issues werestill forcing us to grapple over
diversity.
Issues like schooldesegregation, affirmative
action and voting rights, Toxicwaste in New Jersey's Love Canal
, oil spills in Santa Barbara,the highly publicized burning of
Ohio's Cuyahoga River and otherevents all raised public alarm.
(09:28):
Closer to home, the divorcerate was skyrocketing.
During the 70s, Americancouples split up at more than
twice the rate that they had inthe 60s.
Even in families where mom anddad stayed together, the
personal needs of each parentbecame more important, with
parents spending more time toclaim more of what they
(09:48):
individually thought wasimportant.
In the meantime, family harmonytook it in the shorts.
America's kids were caught inthe crosshairs.
America was experiencing anepidemic of frustration, anxiety
and anger.
I think this classic clip fromthe movie Network, performed by
the late actor Peter Finch,perfectly captured the spirit of
(10:12):
the age.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
I don't have to tell you things are bad.
Everybody knows things are bad.
It's a depression.
Everybody's out of work orscared of losing their job.
The dollar buys a nickel'sworth, Banks are going bust,
Shopkeepers keep a gun under thecounter, Punks are running wild
in the street and there'snobody anywhere who seems to
know what to do.
And there's no end to it.
We know the air is unfit tobreathe and our food is unfit to
(10:39):
eat.
We sit watching our TVs whilesome local newscaster tells us
that today we had 15 homicidesand 63 violent crimes, as if
that's the way it's supposed tobe.
We know things are bad.
Worse than bad, they're crazy.
It's like everything everywhereis going crazy.
So we don't go out anymore.
We sit in the house and slowlythe world we're living in is
getting smaller and all we sayis please, at least leave us
(11:02):
alone in our living rooms.
Let me have my toaster and myTV and my steel-belted radios,
and I won't say anything.
Just leave us alone.
Well, I'm not going to leaveyou alone.
I want you to get mad.
I don't want you to protest.
I don't want you to riot.
I don't want you to write toyour congressman because I
wouldn't know what to tell youto write.
I don't know what to do aboutthe depression and the inflation
and the Russians and the crimein the street.
(11:23):
All I know is that first you'vegot to get mad.
You've got to say I'm a humanbeing, goddammit, my life has
value.
So I want you to get up now.
I want all of you to get up outof your chairs.
I want you to get up right nowand go to the window, open it
(11:46):
and stick your head out and yellI'm as mad as hell and I'm not
going to take this anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
If things behind the front doors of American homes
were not real pretty, they suredidn't look any better once you
stepped off the front porcheither.
Thinking about this, it can'tbe a surprise that punk rose out
of big cities where bad timesfollowed White flight after the
folks that could afford it ranlike hell to the suburbs.
After that, the only thing leftbehind in the cities was crime
(12:18):
and desperation.
Some of the biggest movies ofthe 70s were studies of urban
decay in a growing sense thatAmerica's kinder, more innocent
days were lost forever.
A nasty, gritty world wasplayed out on the big screen in
period films like Taxi Driverwith Robert De Niro, where
violence captured the alienationand anger of 1970s city life,
(12:43):
and the Godfather.
It reflected the changing morallandscape of America in the
20th century.
Speaker 7 (13:05):
Don Pazzini I want to thank you for helping me
organize this meeting here todayand also the other heads of the
five families in New York andNew Jersey Carmine Cuneo from
(13:28):
the Bronx and Brooklyn, philipTattaglia from Staten Island.
We have with us Victor Strykeand all the other associates
that came as far as fromCalifornia, kansas City and all
the other territories of thecountry.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Thank you.
How did things ever get so far?
I don't know.
It was so unfortunate, sounnecessary.
Natalia lost her son and I losther son.
(14:09):
We're quits.
Speaker 9 (14:15):
And if Natalia agrees , then I'm willing to let things
go on the way they were before.
We are all grateful to DonCorleone for calling this
meeting.
We all know him as a man of hisword, a modest man.
He'll always listen to reason.
Yes, don.
Speaker 10 (14:26):
Barzini, he's too modest.
He had all the judges andpoliticians in his pocket.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
He refused to share them when, when did I ever
refuse an accommodation?
All of you know me here.
When did I ever refuse, exceptone time?
Why?
Because I believe this drugbusiness is going to destroy us
(14:55):
in the years to come.
I mean, it's not like gamblingor liquor, even women, which is
something that most people wantnowadays, and it's forbidden to
them by the Pets and Avanti ofthe church.
Even the police departmentsthat have helped us in the past
with gambling and other thingsare going to refuse to help us
when it comes to narcotics.
(15:15):
And I believed that then and Ibelieve that now.
Speaker 9 (15:22):
Times have changed.
It's not like the old dayswhere we can do anything we want
.
A refusal is not the act of afriend.
If Don Corleone had all thejudges and the politicians in
New York, then he must sharethem.
All he loved was you, sir.
He share them.
All he loves is using them.
He must let us draw the waterfrom the well.
Certainly he can present a billfor such services.
(15:46):
After all, we are notcommunists.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
I also don't believe in drugs.
For years I paid my peopleextra so they wouldn't do that
kind of business.
Somebody comes to them and saysI have powders.
If you put up three, fourthousand dollar investment we
can make fifty thousanddistributing.
So they can't resist.
I want to control it as abusiness To keep it respectable.
(16:17):
I don't want it near schools.
I don't want it sold tochildren.
That's an infirmia in my city.
We would keep the traffic inthe dark people to call it.
They're animals anyway, so letthem lose their souls.
Speaker 8 (16:44):
I hope that we could come here and reason together
and as a reasonable man, I'mwilling to do whatever is
necessary to find a peacefulsolution to this problem.
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Then we are agreed, the traffic and drugs will be
permitted, but controlled, andDon Corleone will give her
protection in the east and therewill be the peace.
Speaker 10 (17:01):
But I must have strict assurance from Corleone
as time goes by and his positionbecomes stronger, will he
attempt any individual vendetta?
Speaker 9 (17:10):
Look, we are all reasonable men here we don't
have to give assurances as if wewere lawyers.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
You talk about vengeance.
Is vengeance going to bringyour son back to you or my boy
to me?
I forgot the vengeance of myson, but I have selfish reasons.
(17:47):
My younger son is supposed toleave this country because of
this Salazzo business.
All right, I have to makearrangements to bring him back
here safely, clear of all thesefalse charges.
But I'm a superstitious man andif some unlucky accident should
(18:13):
befall him, if he should getshot in the head by a police
officer, or if he should hanghimself in his jail cell, or if
he should get shot in the headby a police officer, or if he
should hang himself in his jailcell, or if he's struck by a
bolt of lightning and I'm goingto blame some of the people in
this room and that I do notforgive.
But that aside, let me say thatI swear on the soul of my
(18:46):
grandchildren that I will not bethe one to break the peace
we've made here today.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So, as much as punk reflected a new reality in the
nation, musically it continuedAmerica's musical evolution.
And another unpredictable forkin the road there was a clear
line of descent.
You can hear a connectionbetween punk's insistent vocals
and the strength of Bessie Smithwas a clear line of dissent.
You can hear a connectionbetween punk's insistent vocals
and the strength of Bessie Smith.
Or the blitzkrieg guitar thrashof Billy Zoom or Steve Jones
(19:25):
and blues great Howlin' Wolf,with nothing to do and a sense
that the walls were closing in,teens living in places like New
York, detroit and Los Angelesswam in a notion of boredom and
alienation that needed venting.
Punk's rawness and DIY attitudemade it easy for anyone who had
(19:47):
the need to hit back or atleast spit into the audience to
become an anti-hero.
Punk's rebelliousness had acommon spirit with early rock
and roll and artists like ChuckBerry and Elvis Presley.
You can see it splayed outright in the open if you compare
the album covers from theClash's album London Calling and
Elvis Presley's first record.
(20:08):
And while Elvis remained acountry boy at heart, punk's
dedication to defying socialnorms to be your authentic self
had early role models likeLittle Richard.
Punk rock intentionally took asharp right turn off the trend
line.
Music had been steadily movingin since at least the late 1940s
(20:29):
, and thank God too, becauserock had lost its urgency and
rebellion that had inspired the60s to be what they had been.
Without that inspiration, therenever would have been a Bob
Dylan or a Mick Jagger, nor aJames Brown or a Pete Townsend.
Neither would you have hadJanis Joplin, tina Turner or
(20:51):
Grace Slick, for that matter.
But by the 70s, the electricitythat had supercharged the 60s
had dissipated.
Instead, teens were served up,the likes of the Osmonds and the
Captain Antonio.
Even in its crunchier moments,70s rock acquired the term
(22:05):
corporate rock, thank you.
Bands like Journey andForeigner and Boston were more
like money-making brands or evenrecord label ATM machines
playing music with the musicallychallenged.
Instead of offering the latestgeneration of record buyers the
(22:26):
authentically passionate realdeal that guys like Dylan or the
Beatles had once given them,for every authentic rocker like
Springsteen, there was a poserlike Barry Manilow we used to
call him barely man enough orDan Fogelmer, which is fine if
you're drooling into the sink inthe dentist's chair, but lousy
(22:47):
if you need something thatmatches the messed up way you're
feeling inside.
And even the more provocativemusic from the likes of Kiss or
Alice Cooper was literally justplay acting.
Likes of Kiss or Alice Cooperwas literally just play acting.
But to be honest, for those whohad been paying any attention,
the seeds of the cynicism andfrustration that was in full
bloom when punk finally explodedwere already in their germ
(23:10):
states in the 60s.
For instance, I'm thinkingabout the Beatles' wide album
and Lennon's song Happiness is aWarren Gun.
And although the Beatles couldnever have been a punk band,
other late 60s and early 70sbands did at least point in
punk's direction.
A couple examples will help here.
(23:30):
Before punk came proto-punk.
Of course, as Chrissy Hine putsit, these things never develop
that way.
First up, the Sonics.
(23:57):
They were a band from Tacoma,washington, and were one of the
pioneers of garage rock.
So this is their song the Witch.
It's a true garage rock classic.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Oh, she'll put you down Cause she's an evil chick.
Say she's the witch.
She got a long black hair and abig black car.
I know what you're thinking,but you won't get far.
(24:31):
She's gonna make you laughCause she's the witch.
Right now, right now, right now, it's time to Take out the jams
.
Motherfucker, jams, jams, I'mgonna, I'm gonna kick your ass.
(25:04):
Yeah, well, I feel pretty goodand I guess that I'm good, good,
crazy.
Now, baby, cause we all got ittuned and when the dust and roof
got hazy, now, baby, and thenthere was the MC5, mc for Motor
City.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
They were a band from obviously Detroit.
They came literally kicking andscreaming from Detroit's
proto-pixels.
They added political activismto the Sonics Garage band Fury.
Let's check out their song KickOut the Jams, but baby you
can't do it without.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
When you get the feeling you've got, it's like
I'm on with that mic in my handand let me kick out the jam.
(26:03):
Yeah, kick out the jam.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Let's kick it out.
It's a powerful manifesto forsocial change.
Like the punks that followed,mc5 used raw language and
imagery to make their pointsSonically.
Their aggressive, unrefinedsound also made a statement.
They were intentionally loud,rough and angsty.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Thank you, so messed up.
I want you here In my room.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I want you here.
The Stooges, the band'sfrontman, iggy Pop, might be the
original punker, and his band,the Stooges, paved the way for
punk rock with their aggressivesound and confrontational stage
presence.
I mean in their time, the late1960s and early early 70s,
(27:37):
people were not quite ready forwhat the stooges regularly
served up diving into theaudience, inciting mosh pits,
slashing himself with brokenglass, you could say.
Iggy was able to hold anaudience's attention pretty well
and then combine the visualwith songs like this one, I
(27:58):
Wanna Be your Dog, which isabout rebellion, sex and
frustration.
The Stooges made a lot ofpeople squirm, which was exactly
the thing that they were goingfor.
So here's Iggy from aninterview.
Speaker 13 (28:13):
Thank you very much for being here.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (28:15):
I was reading your book last night and it a very
interesting uh piece of work youput together.
You were ray, born and rearedand uh um but and you lived in a
lived in a trailer, right yeah,yeah and I haven't grown up in
a trailer.
Does it have any thoughts thatthat affects a person one way or
the other, as opposed to livingin a stationary house?
Speaker 14 (28:32):
yeah, absolutely, because you know, because
everybody.
Well, first of all, like youknow, there's like trash.
You ever heard the trailer?
No, no, well, it's a kind of afly-by-night connotation, and
plus things like if your dadwalks in the front door right
and he closes the door, thehouse shakes a little bit, so
it's kind of like God is home.
(28:53):
No, I didn't Did they ever.
No, it's I don't know.
I'm glad I did, you know, atleast it made me different.
Speaker 13 (29:12):
But at the time, was it affecting you adversely with
your peers or it was no bigdeal?
Speaker 14 (29:16):
Well, not with my peers, just with the PRI, et
cetera that I went to schoolwith, you know.
Now tell me about also I kindof liked it because it was like
ahead of its time.
You know, yeah, my father's avisionary.
Speaker 13 (29:34):
Do they still live in a house fairly?
Speaker 14 (29:36):
No, they just sold it just a few months ago and
they've moved down to somewherein the Carolinas.
Speaker 13 (29:45):
Tell me about hurting yourself on stage and
cutting yourself and thentossing yourself into the
audience.
Is that still Well, okay?
Speaker 14 (29:54):
first, yeah, tom Snyder asked me about that.
No, it never did hurt.
You know, it's a funny thingabout the.
It's a funny thing about, like,you know, you get a good band,
you know, and you get themcooking and if the beat's right
and it's a good riff, likenothing hurts.
So you know, it's sort of ayou're getting a bit of a state
(30:15):
you know, I suppose it has to dowith your adrenaline, but a bit
of a a state, you know, Isuppose it has to do with the
adrenaline, but uh, butafterwards, sometimes, sometimes
, sometimes you know it would,it would be just just the sort
of thing like I had to get a newtooth for your show this
morning.
It was a real pain, you know,because because otherwise I
(30:36):
wouldn't be able to, but butthat was just a sheer accident.
Where I was, I was getting sointo it that I just smushed the
mic in my in my tooth by mistake.
But then other times, you know,I'd, I'd sort of uh, just fling
myself at the audience because,uh, because, of their
indifference.
Speaker 13 (30:51):
tell me, oh, okay, now, now, uh, in the book you
described the first time youreally started to to yourself
with drumsticks.
You were drumming then, right,yeah, and you were kind of no.
Speaker 14 (31:00):
no, that was no.
I was singing by that time.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
Okay, now tell me about the time that you, the
first decision, the first timeyou made the decision to jump
into the audience.
Speaker 14 (31:09):
To cross the proscenium, as it were.
Yes, okay, there were threestages to that.
The Okay, there were threestages to that.
The very first time I did it.
It was the second gig I'd everplayed in my life and I opened
up for Frank Zappa in theMother's Invention and I knew he
(31:29):
was going to be interesting.
And it was about 15 minutesinto my set and it was going
nowhere and so I thought what amI going to do?
Listen, you know, there's like,uh, there's like 15 000 bands
here in the detroit area, justone place to play.
You know, uh, I gotta stand outright.
So, uh, like, uh, just like alittle kid, like you know it's a
bit hebephrenic.
(31:49):
I mean, like, uh, I just sortof went like have you ever seen
when little kids don't getattention and they just go like
yeah, like that, and pretendthey're gonna fall on the floor?
Well, I really did, yeah, youknow, and that that's that
created a stir now, what did youland on?
Speaker 13 (32:06):
did you just go right on?
Speaker 14 (32:07):
over.
Well, it was funny, I what Iplanned, I'd planned to land on
I I sort of spotted a pair ofvery plump boys young ladies it
and it was my intention thatthey would be best suited to
cushion the fall.
But I didn't, you know, Ididn't reckon.
(32:29):
I figured they'd be lucky.
You know They'd be lucky.
I was like you know Part of theshow sure?
Well, you know too.
I mean, they weren't like youknow, they weren't ravingly
attractive or anything.
So I figured, you know, maybethey'd like some company.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
But instead they just Probably one of the earliest
recognizable punk influences wasLou Reed and his band, the
Velvet Underground.
Speaker 12 (32:57):
shiny shiny, shiny boots of leather with flash girl
(33:18):
child in the dark comes andbells your servant, don't
forsake him.
Strive dear mistress and curehis heart.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Founded by Reed, who was vocals, guitar and keyboards
, and John Cale on bass,keyboards and viola of all
things in New York City in 1965.
By the end of the year theyadded Sterling Morrison on
guitar and Maureen Tucker ondrums.
Their song Heroin, was writtenfrom the point of view of an
(33:58):
addict.
We're listening to Venus andFurs, a song about sadomasochism
.
Everything about this band wasintended to provoke a response.
As well as being forerunners ofpunk, the Velvet Underground
also pioneered a path into theavant-garde that later punks
followed.
It obviously opened doors fortheir collaboration with Andy
(34:21):
Warhol, and each of the four hadtheir own place in New York's
arts scene.
Reed, the band's poet, hadstudied literature at Syracuse
and had been influenced by poetDelmore Schwartz.
You can see that influence inLou's fascination with urban
alienation and existentialism.
John Cale had trained as aclassic musician but was also
(34:45):
immersed in the minimalist andavant-garde music scene.
Kale also played in LamontYoung's Theater of Eternal Music
, known for its pioneering droneand extended duration
compositions, and then guitaristand sometimes bass player
whenever Kale was on viola.
Sterling Morrison was into thevisual arts, especially
(35:08):
experimental film.
He had also gone to Syracusewith Lou Mo Tucker.
The VU's drummer also had aclassical music background like
Hale.
His avant-garde approach topercussion showed the strong
influence of John Cage and otherminimalist composers.
By the way, if you'reinterested in learning more
(35:29):
about minimalism, check out myepisode 15 from season one, the
Celestial Pulse of Minimalism.
There's a link in today's shownotes for that.
Speaker 7 (35:48):
Severin, Severin, it's no when I'm gone.
Speaker 12 (35:54):
It's all my fault.
Oh, why did I just fall?
(36:15):
I'd be the same.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Oh, I needed to be the same.
The famous pop artist AndyWarhol you've probably seen his
paintings Campbell's Soup, cansor Maryland Diptych was the
Underground's major patron andhe probably had the greatest
influence on their development.
The VU did a number of mixedmedia shows called the Exploding
Plastic Inevitable thatcombined the band, a
(36:38):
pseudo-singer, german fashionmodel named Miko, some of Andy's
films dancing, an elaboratelight show and even the audience
themselves via liveinterviewing during their
performances.
Everything about the shows wasintended to shock audiences
Bizarre lighting, jarring music,blatantly sexual questions
(37:01):
asked of the audience whiletheir reactions were taped,
entirely disarming.
At first, these things becameexpected elements of future punk
rock concerts.
Speaker 12 (37:14):
Oh, she's really doing her thing.
Watch that speed break.
Watch that speed break.
It's gonna go and make it everyweek.
(37:45):
Oh, it's gonna go, everybody'sgonna go kill them all.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's gonna, it's gonna, everybody's gonna.
It comes here, it comes.
Everybody.
(38:58):
Get up, don't make me run, doit.
©.
Bf-watch TV 2021.
Guitar solo.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
And yet another proto-punk band from the early
70s.
The New York Dolls were anotherNew York band, although their
influence never went much beyondManhattan at the time.
Today, fans look back and theyappreciate how the Dolls helped
pave the way for music.
Their music was a blend of boththe trends in boy-girl-themed
(39:33):
pop music and pessimistic socialcommentary.
This is their song from 73called Jet Boy, blending glam
and proto-punk.
Jet Boy is about adolescentrebellion and sexual awakening.
It's a song that pushesboundaries with its suggestive
lyrics and energetic rock soundKnown for manic screaming
(39:55):
another trend that punk followed.
They also got a lot ofattention for the clothes they
wore.
The mildest way that you candescribe it is androgynous.
The band was managed by MalcolmMcLaren, who, of course,
managed the Sex Pistols.
It was McLaren that pushed thedolls even further to the
fringes, like the concert thatthey performed with
(40:16):
communist-themed clothes andprops.
The great rock and rollphotographer Bob Gruen, famous
for his photos of legends likeJohn Iñigo, the Rolling Stones,
zeppelin, david Bowie, tinaTurner, blondie, the Ramones,
patti Smith, the Sex Pistols,kiss and loads more, explained
(40:40):
why the New York Dolls neverbecame a bigger band.
He said If you wanted to workin the music business, you
didn't go around admitting thatyou saw the New York Dolls.
That was like admitting thatyou had friends who were
homosexual.
It was not popular in themainstream.
Uh judgmental, are we?
Nothing quite like a New YorkDolls show had ever been
(41:02):
attempted before.
In Rome the band members brokenew ground in sexual ambiguity.
The guys wore dresses, highheels, fishnet stockings, ripped
jeans, leather jackets andoutlandish makeup.
They pushed boundaries andattracted attention with their
visual presentation.
But it wasn't just aboutfashion.
They also carved out their ownniche and stage presence too.
(41:24):
Their lead singer, davidJohansson, frequently climbed up
into the stage lights or threwhimself into the crowd.
The band did dance moves,dramatic gestures and loads of
audience interaction.
Moving beyond simpleentertainment, the Dolls' live
shows challenged societal normsabout masculinity, sexuality and
performance.
(41:44):
They injected raw energy andtheatricality into the rock and
roll scene.
In many ways the New York Dollsgave birth to glamour.
Bowie was a regular at thoseearly Dolls shows in the city
(42:08):
between 71 and 73, where heburied himself in their raw
energy and theatricality.
He called the Dolls one of thegreatest rock and roll bands in
the world and said they werequote an inspiration.
You can hear that influence inhis music when you listen back
to Ziggy Stardust or AladdinSane, I said hey, man you know
(42:35):
my school is insane.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I said, hey, man, well, my work's on the train.
I said, hey, man, well, she's atotal man.
Now she's searching out a spaceadventure Adventure.
I don't need a lonely man toshake everybody's head.
I'm talking something to thecity.
I don't need a lonely man toshake everybody's head.
I'm talking something to theman.
I'm a million-dollar man.
I'm a million-dollar man.
I'm a million-dollar man.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I'm a million-dollar man Albums that coincided with
the Doll's Peak.
This was also the period whenBowie turned away from his early
folk-inspired music towards aheavier sound with Axeman Mick
Bronson on lead.
Like on this song, Sub SuburbanCity, from the rise and fall of
Ziggy Stardust and the Spidersfrom Mars.
In his Ziggy character, Bowiecreated a rock star from Mars,
(43:42):
sent as a messianic messenger toEarth, who carried a message of
hope and salvation to a dyingplanet.
Unfortunately, this anti-herotook a tragic turn and succumbed
to fame and self-destruction.
Speaker 11 (43:57):
I wanted to write theatrical things.
Actually, strangely enough well, maybe it's not so strange when
you look at it in context butwhen I was around 17, 18, what I
wanted to do more than anythingelse was write something for
Broadway.
I wanted to write a musical.
I had no idea of how you did itor how musicals were
constructed, but the idea ofwriting something that was
(44:18):
rock-based for Broadway reallyintriguing.
I thought that would be awonderful thing to do and I saw
myself as somebody who wouldkind of end up writing musicals
in a way, probably rock musicalsof some nature.
But it never actually becamethat.
So they were.
In a way.
Those ideas were kind of quasheda little bit when I realised
(44:39):
what a huge and vicious thingthat was to take on, because you
have to write dialogue and allthat and I really didn't know
how to approach that.
So I took a far simpler courseand kind of abbreviated the idea
of musical into just a conceptpiece for an album and created
the characters to go with thedifferent albums.
And in the process of doingthat I found that I was actually
(45:00):
playing around with the musicthat I was writing more and more
.
So it really was characterdriven.
That actually started tointerfere with the music in a
good way, and my interesteventually became just the music
itself.
Speaker 9 (45:15):
So it's almost like I left a lot of the theatrical
ambitions behind when I reallygot involvedgy Stardust is a
(45:57):
classic illustration, so howmuch of Davy Jones?
Was he Ziggy?
Speaker 11 (46:02):
Stardust.
I like Ziggy personally, ZiggyStardust.
In fact that was going to be mynext project was Ziggy Stardust
.
I don't think there was verymuch at all.
I mean, I honestly I was justtrying to create an idea of how
to expand rock and expand thehorizons of it, and I took as
the alien form for Ziggy as hewas supposed to be an alien of
(46:25):
some kind, I based him very muchon the Japanese concept.
At that particular time, in theearly 70s, we knew so little
about japan, and japan reallyhadn't exploited itself and
brought its stuff over to thewest, you know.
So it still seemed like analien society, but it was a
human alien society.
So the big you could make ahuman connection to um japan,
(46:48):
far, far more than you could sayto mars, which would be, you
know, just beyond um so how easywas it to leave the character
behind?
you killed him off soemphatically yeah, I didn't have
a problem with it.
I really didn't, because Ireally wanted to move on.
In 73 we'd uh, you know,incredible, the whole thing
lasted only for 18 months.
(47:09):
In all that, I mean, it's justincredible.
We did one year's worth oftours.
We never even played europe.
We played england and thestates I should have killed my
manager.
We never played europe, neverplayed australia, and it was
over.
It was just over.
I decided that's enough, Idon't want to get, you know,
imprisoned by all this, and Imean I because I really wanted
to.
Towards the last two or threemonths of the whole Ziggy tour,
(47:32):
I'd already kind of decided whatI wanted to do and what I
wanted to write.
So for me it was justabsolutely necessary to move on.
And what was behind theandrogynous images of the 70s?
It just seemed so perfectwithin the time that that really
represented what the 70s wasall about.
There was such a feeling comingout of the 50s and into the 60s
(47:56):
.
There was a real opening up ofuh attitudes.
In the 60s and then the 70s,everything became.
It was the pluralistic 70s.
You know, there were so manysides to a story in the 70s
before.
In the 50s it was just blackand white.
It was one story yes and onestory no.
But in the 50s it was justblack and white.
It was one story yes and onestory no.
But in the 70s you could lookat things in so many different
ways.
Nothing was right.
The idea of absolutes was kindof starting to disappear.
(48:19):
It wasn't a this is the rightway.
This is the wrong way, and Ijust felt that it really summed
up the whole of what the 70swere going to be about.
It was a guess and it was agood one.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Drawing from his New York Dolls experiences, bowie
injected Ziggy with the doll'sandrogyny.
Ziggy's look challenged gendernorms with makeup, flamboyant
costumes and ambiguous sexuality.
Ziggy wore his hair in adramatic, bright red mullet with
long flowing strands and spikes.
To give Ziggy his otherworldlypersona, bowie applied heavy
(49:10):
white foundation, brighteyeshadow, dramatic eyeliner and
painted lightning bolts downhis cheeks.
And an alien rocker is going tohave clothes to die for, isn't
he?
So Ziggy's clothes were akaleidoscope of color and
extravagance.
He wore bold jumpsuits,glittering bodysuits, dramatic
capes, flamboyant jackets, justabout everything from satin and
(49:31):
velvet and studded with sequinsand geometric patterns and
futuristic designs.
And Ziggy accessorizedKnee-high boots, platform shoes,
mismatched socks.
Speaker 10 (49:48):
All of that added to his unique style.
Oh no, no, no, you're a rockand roll suicide.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Ending the Ziggy story with a suicide, bowie made
it a commentary on rock androll, alienation, fame and the
dangers of excess.
Ziggy the alien who fell toEarth became a tragic anti-hero
who, despite his flaws andeventual downfall, remained a
sympathetic figure who struggledwith identity and his own
mortality.
(50:14):
And because he did that, ziggyultimately stood for the rock
stars themselves.
So all these bands that we'vebeen talking about here paved
the way for punk, and by 74 or75, new York City's punk rock
scene was on the rise.
Bands like the Ramones New YorkCity's punk rock scene was on
the rise.
Bands like the Ramones, theTalking Heads, blondie and other
(50:37):
groups that would becomepillars in the scene all played
regular sets in clubs aroundtown.
As these musicians and thelifestyle rose up, it shook the
foundations of the musicindustry.
Suddenly, bands like yes andPink Floyd, who had been at the
top of the industry, were now,all of a sudden, yesterday's
news.
Punk also left an indelible markon culture and society.
(50:59):
The immediate impact was mostof the adult world was in
disgust.
Parents were slack-jawed andgobsmacked.
Yes, indeed, in a totallyunexpected way, rock and roll
was boomerang, right back to itsprimitive Stone Age days.
Again.
The longer-term impact andwe'll see this in later episodes
(51:21):
was that punk was like a forestfire After it had burned
everything in its path, a bunchof new bands and new forms
sprang out of the forest clay.
But, like I said, more on thatin future episodes hey ho, let's
(51:43):
go.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Hey ho, let's go.
Oh, it is a night.
You're going through the timeWatch.
You get to lose a memory.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
You are, of course, listening to the Ramones, and
this is their song let's GreetBuck.
Listening to the Ramones, andthis is their song Blitzkrieg
Bop.
Hailing from Queens, new York,the Ramones were pioneers of
punk.
With this simple rallying cry,the Ramones ushered in their
first album and subsequentlyrevolutionized American rock and
roll.
In the space of just 14 sharptracks, for a growing crowd of
(52:49):
disaffected teens, rock hadturned into a musical desert
filled with dust, disco and anoccasional desert tortoise.
And then suddenly it's hey ho,let's go, and the Ramones were
on their way to becoming one ofthe most influential bands ever.
Recorded on a shoestring,probably a Doc Martens budget of
(53:13):
just over six grand is thatpunk rock or what?
And released on April 23rd 76,the Ramones packed 14 rockers
into two sides of vinyl, most ofthem under two minutes each.
The longest tune, thepsychological creep fest of I
don't want to go down to thebasement, clocks in at 2 minutes
(53:35):
and 39 seconds.
The shortest, judy is a Punk.
An ode to young offendersblasts forth for a mere minute
and 32 seconds theself-explanatory.
Now I want to sniff some glue.
All 1 minute and 35 seconds ofit is atypical in that it
contains a rare guitar solo.
(53:59):
This is ultra lean, no fat onthe bone, rock and roll.
Here's the Ramones in aninterview from the Tomorrow Show
.
Speaker 15 (54:11):
I'm talking to the Ramones right now Joey, johnny,
stevie and Marky.
You have your people here withyou.
You got the best names in theworld, you know?
Yeah, I guess.
So they love you and, by theway, your names aren't really
Ramone, you just didn't know.
It's a coincidence.
It's a coincidence, it just allhappened.
Speaker 12 (54:27):
When we met in the elevator, we all had the same
last name.
Speaker 15 (54:30):
You never give your real names, but you don't want
your mothers to be subjected tothat Disgrace.
Right, right my mother justleft the country.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
you know how did you get together?
We started like summer of 1974,and we grew up together, lived
in the same block.
We were friends, something Ialways wanted to do.
Speaker 9 (54:54):
It's an unnatural phenomenon Can you see, yes,
don't do it there, it's not theright spot you know, all right
and, by the way you know, I wasmeaning to get out of
Speaker 12 (55:02):
here I kind of did.
Speaker 15 (55:04):
You didn't have time .
Speaker 12 (55:05):
No, it's too many things to do, you know.
Speaker 15 (55:08):
You started back in the mid-70s.
I want to know.
Speaker 13 (55:11):
I was going to type out a lyric sheet for you
tonight.
I haven't we want the airways.
Speaker 15 (55:15):
This business is killing me.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
The Ku.
Speaker 15 (55:20):
Klux Klan is stealing my baby away.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Teenage lobotomy.
Speaker 15 (55:24):
You got it all.
I got it, I got it and you'redoing really well with it.
Speaker 5 (55:27):
But you started punk kind of Well, well, well, we
consider it, consider it agenuine rock and roll.
Rock and roll was meant forpunks and, uh, that's what
started I guess, yeah, but punkis an answer to all the glitter
and the stuff that cuts a lot ofpunk is just a rebellious rock
(55:48):
for all kids uh, all of them.
Real rock and roll is punk, nota bunch of old men playing
music for your mothers andfathers.
That's what you have now, whatthey call rock.
For instance yeah, styx KansasFarn stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (56:04):
Your parents should listen to this.
Speaker 15 (56:05):
Is it mellowing out my mom?
Speaker 6 (56:07):
doesn't even listen to that.
Speaker 15 (56:08):
She thinks that your mother's more hip than that,
yeah, it's just.
Speaker 5 (56:12):
They just want to clean up music and just push
mediocrity on the public.
Speaker 15 (56:18):
So you're back to your tattered jeans and your
sneakers and your leatherjackets and nothing fancy.
Speaker 5 (56:25):
Well, we just wanted to be real.
We wanted to be ourselves andnot put on a bunch of phony
clothes.
Speaker 15 (56:30):
Yeah, but wait a minute now.
Is this real?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, ourselvesand not, uh, put on a bunch of
phony clothes, yeah, but wait aminute now.
Speaker 5 (56:35):
Is this real well?
We wore.
Speaker 15 (56:36):
We wore what we always wore yeah no, but isn't
this a uniform too?
Speaker 14 (56:39):
I mean, we went over it when we started the group,
we were talking about what wewere going to wear.
Uh-huh you know, when westarted thinking about it and we
just decided to wear what wehad.
This is what we were wearingbefore we were in the band.
We were thinking of gettingdressed up and all that too, you
know, and then we decided notto All the big rock stars are
wearing what we're wearing nowlike Billy Joel, the one with
(57:03):
the love of jazz.
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