December 18, 2024 • 47 mins
Caught up in an unexpected airport strike, I embarked on a wild road trip to Cleveland for a towing training class, battling through delays and a treacherous snowstorm. On the return journey, a wrong-way driver almost cut my life short, a stark reminder of life's fragility and the importance of cherishing every moment. These personal trials set the stage for examining how unpredictability and danger are just part of the towing industry's daily grind.
The episode takes a serious turn as we scrutinize the pressing issues within the towing world. From a tragic accident in Michigan to questionable billing practices in both Georgia and Canada, the stories illustrate the urgent need for regulatory reforms and community support. Toronto's tow truck drivers face illegal taxing and violence, painting a grim picture of the challenges that demand immediate solutions. This conversation underscores the critical need for improved safety measures and fair regulations to protect those working tirelessly on the road.
We are thrilled to feature Joey Gagne, president of Abrams Towing and the Canadian Towing Association, who shares his remarkable journey from a single truck to a fleet of 200. Joey provides invaluable insights into the industry's evolving landscape and how new regulations in Ontario are shaping fairer practices. The discussion rounds out with a focus on empowering tow companies through standardized training and flexible approaches, paving the way for success in this ever-changing field. Tune in to learn how the towing industry is striving toward a safer and more equitable future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast.
Remember this is your podcastto promote safety, education,
positive public relations andnetworking within the
professional and business-mindedtowing and recovery industry.
I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor
(00:27):
, and my other host is WesWilburn, over 40-year towing
industry veteran, the founder ofAmerican Towing Recovery
Institute of Fayetteville, northCarolina.
He has produced and conductedtraining and certification
programs for leading towingcompanies, equipment
(00:48):
distributors, towingassociations, dot, fire
departments, rescue, as well asmilitary installations across
the United States.
Wes has been published over 100times in major towing
publications published over 100times in major towing
(01:08):
publications.
Wes has developed many courses,including the most recent
awareness-level course for allresponders that specialize in
electric vehicles as well ashybrid, natural gas and hydrogen
vehicles.
Wes has provided insight as themain speaker for over 30 years
at more than 900 trainingclasses and has been recognized
(01:31):
as one of America's greatesttowing trainers.
He is well known for hisstraightforward but
down-to-earth teaching style.
(02:05):
No-transcript.
Without further ado, here's mydear friend and a great guy for
our industry, wes Wilkins.
Well, dj, as always, you're waytoo kind with your introduction
.
I mean.
I certainly appreciate your kindwords.
Just got back from Cleveland,ohio, over the weekend, did a
(02:28):
class up there, dj and first ofall, driving up there, I drove
instead of flew.
You know you got the strikegoing on at Charlotte Airport.
I was afraid of that maybepossibly affecting my flight so
I just decided to drive.
You know Cleveland's rightthere eight hours, so it's right
on the verge of being asefficient a drive as it is to
(02:50):
fly.
So I drove up there and I gotdelayed behind a major wreck in
West Virginia.
I was going to sit down for acouple hours.
But by the time I got up intoOhio it was snowing and as I got
closer to where I was going,just outside of Cleveland, it
was snowing.
And it was snowing First time Iwas driven late at night in a
(03:12):
driving snowstorm, I tell youkind of got the old heart
percolating a little bit.
So we got up there and did atwo-day school at a trucking
company that just bought a towtruck and going to tow their
vehicles with it.
So we had a real good school.
Jt Reasoner came out and helpedme and we did a lot of hands-on
(03:35):
with them towing their vehiclesthat they owned.
And then I left just a littlebit before training was over.
On Saturday Everybody said youknow they had it, it was under
control, go ahead and get out ofhere, since I was going to try
(03:56):
to drive maybe all the way homeor part of the way home.
So I got in that vehicle, djgot filled up with fuel, got
something to eat and, you know,put it in cruise control and
eased on down the highway.
Wasn't running super fast, butI wasn't wasting no time either,
and I got all the way back intoNorth Carolina and I had
experience that, I have to say,really made me take perspective.
(04:18):
I'm traveling 70 miles an hour,probably in a 65 zone or
whatever, but I'm boogieingright along is what I'm saying
to you, my rural highway limitedaccess highway and I just
looked down at the podcast.
I looked back up, thank God aminute or two earlier.
(04:39):
No way back to anything, butI'm looking.
I guess I mentioned lookingdown at the podcast of how
things could have been differentthan it happened a minute
earlier.
So I'm driving down the road andI'm looking and getting ready
to enter a construction zone andthere's a car coming at me and
it's a two lane road.
There's nobody in my right handlane, so I jump over real quick
(05:02):
and zoom, the car goes by me.
And I jump over real quick andzoom, the car goes by me.
I'm looking, thinking, man,what's going on here?
And long story short,apparently they were not.
Apparently there was anorthbound car in the southbound
lane.
Oh, my Nearly missed the head-oncollision, like I said one
(05:22):
minute earlier, where I glanceddown for a second switching a
podcast.
I would have missed that beat.
So I got to tell you everybody,take some perspective on how
close things can be.
And then, from that point onwhich I drove in, let's say, six
hours or the eight hour trip, Idon't believe I saw one police
officer up until that incident.
(05:46):
Then, as I got closer to homeand it got later on the Saturday
night, more police out, morepolice out, more police out,
which, you know, thinking backto selling days, saturday night
was always a busy time forselling for the police.
Long story short, I feel like Idodged a bullet by a split
(06:07):
second Because I'm telling youyou know they were coming up and
they didn't slow down oranything.
There were bullets goingnorthbound.
I called the state police andit had been reported by other
people, so hopefully they gothim stopped.
Holy moly, that was a closecall.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's as close as you can get I mean head-on collision
is if you're going 70 miles anhour and they're going.
I didn't do that kind of mathwhen I was in school because I
hated it, but that's probablynot survivable.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It was a big vehicle too.
I've done that for years taughta class, gotten in the vehicle
and driven home.
You know, one of the things isthis was a Friday-Saturday class
.
Normally it's a Saturday-Sunday, so that driving home on a
Sunday night is a piece of a piedifference too.
Anyway, it gave me fresh energy.
(07:08):
I feel thankful there's a goodLord out there looking out for
me.
It just gave me someperspective about life.
I do need to focus and getthings accomplished that I want
to get accomplished.
But we had a great school upthere.
I survived the snow okay.
Got home to my lovely wife,april.
(07:30):
Speaking of April, she's gotsome news stories she's going to
read for us.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So, speaking of near misses and Hambridge Heights,
hambridge Heights towing owner,bill Hambridge this is out of
Plainwall, michigan had not anear miss, he actually got hit.
He got hit by a car WhileHambridge was hooking into a
disabled vehicle.
Officials said a westboundtraveling vehicle crashed into
the disabled vehicle which thencrashed into the wrecker.
(08:00):
This one, bill Hambridge 15feet into the air also moved the
wrecker.
This one, bill Hambrick's 15feet into the air also moved the
wrecker 15 feet ahead.
Bill says this has happened tohim four or five times over the
past 40 years.
It's never been his fault.
It's always somebody that runsinto him or something.
(08:21):
But that's definitely leavesthat 360 degree.
Uh, head on a swivel.
Head on a swivel, definitely Uh.
The driver of the third vehiclewas cited for failure to move
over to an emergency vehicle anda civil infraction.
Um, the driver violatedMichigan's move over law which
(08:45):
requires motorists to slow downand move into an open lane when
passing stationary emergencyvehicles.
Apparently this has happened acouple times in in michigan
because earlier that week barryand gilligan's towing in grand
rapids, there was a crashbetween a tow truck driver and a
vehicle happened.
The Tuesday before that.
(09:06):
The company said a tow truckdriver was hit while responding
to a crash and the impact tossedthem into the road while they
were loading up a vehicle.
And then we interviewed MattFinster last year, right after
this had happened.
His son was killed.
It's a similar thing, but notexactly.
(09:27):
He was on the side of the roadand he got hit.
Later that month that man thathit him was sentenced after
pleading no contest to a crashthat hit and killed the tow
truck driver, killed the towtruck driver.
We had, like I said, we hadMatt win a podcast last year
(09:48):
right after this happened, maybea week or two after this
happened, and DJ and I were bothat the Wall of the Fallen this
year where his name was put onthe wall.
Dj, wasn't that just soemotional?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, very much so April, Just like every year, but
it was a little bit morebecause Matt Spencer had spoken
on our podcast about his son andabout the whole situation and
it was moving.
The ceremony was moving, but weknew these people and so all of
(10:27):
a sudden now it's a wholedifferent ballgame.
And when that family let go, theballoon that flew in the air.
All the people were in tearsbecause this is something that
we have to address with ourbrothers and sisters in the
towing industry that areinvolved.
Work in the white line, younever know.
(10:50):
That's why safety is such a bigpush by Wes Wilber.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, he definitely does have it in every training
seminar that he does, and it'slike it's second nature with
with us.
So you cannot have too much.
You cannot have too much safetyin other news I'm going to have
west to um to uh help me withthis.
(11:18):
When we did, we read an articlethe other day about one of the
last podcasts about a towingcompany in Columbus, Georgia
Coles Towing, that overcharged alittle bit to the young lady.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, we don't want to say overcharged, we don't
know, but the bill was $4,000 toremove the car from a flower
bed.
To remove the car from a flowerbed, and they had to.
On a recorded line they sharedwith everybody that.
They told the young lady thatthe car had to come back for an
(11:56):
insurance company to inspect it.
So anyway, long story short,the $4,000 bill.
They re-upped it to make it a$9,000 bill and then they ended
up taking the car back to herfor $200.
So and this comes from thetowing company, this information
(12:18):
comes from the towing companyitself.
So that was just an update on astory last week.
Now here's a story where asimilar situation happened north
of the border up in Canada andI'm going to read that story and
our guest after the break I'mgoing to ask him for his opinion
(12:39):
on it sounds like a verysimilar situation.
A young person has their cartowed.
They had for a week's storage.
It was $5,000 for one week ofstorage.
Everybody knows a mall fortowning companies being
profitable, but sometimes we'veseen situations with extreme
(13:00):
charges.
But there was a secondinvestigation from the OPP,
which is the Ontario ProvincialPolice, and then it says
advertisement and then it saysSouthway Towing is facing the
following charges so operated.
Charged in demand of paymentwithout consent.
(13:21):
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to obtain consent.
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to obtain consent.
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to comply withprescribed access requirements.
It goes on with several others.
The last one is it falls underthe vehicle storage operator.
Fail to make reasonable effortsto release vehicle upon request
(13:44):
.
Failure to make fail to makereasonable efforts to release
vehicle upon request.
From what I see, the Canadianslook at operating a towing
company completely differentthan it does down here in the
state.
Not sure if that's a good thingor a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
We'll talk about that with our guests.
And then the last thing, andthis is in Toronto.
It says two truck drivers inthe Toronto area are being
illegally taxed, and then theword tax is in.
Quotations from other companieshave seen some forced to pay
(14:28):
thousands and, according to atleast two sources in the
industry, have contributed to arash of violence in recent
months, including at least onefatal shooting.
The sources one operator andone driver spoke to the Star on
the condition of anonymity,citing a fear for their safety.
So this seems pretty severe.
Apparently there's laws thatthey put in place for that, but
(14:51):
they figured a way around therules and the regulations to
still get this money from othertowers.
It says this is on the 400series highways and what tells
me it's like the 401, thosetypes.
That might be something that wecan delve into a little bit too
.
Yeah with our guests, absolutelyWith our guests, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So why don't we take a quick break?
And right after the break we'llcome back and introduce our
returning guests.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
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Speaker 1 (17:08):
Welcome back listeners.
You're listening to theAmerican Tone Recovery Institute
podcast with Wes Wilburn andApril Wilburn and DJ Harrington.
Every week, we do our best tobring you informative episodes
like the one right now.
Informative episodes like theone right now.
Make sure you download andlisten for events on Spotify,
itunes, pandora, stitcher, iartMedia, amazon or wherever you
(17:34):
get your podcasts.
So, without further ado, let mepass it over to our main man,
wes Wilburn.
Thank you, dj, and I do want tothank all our loyal listeners
16,000 subscribers now.
We, you, dj, and I do want tothank all our loyal listeners
16,000 subscribers now.
We certainly appreciate that.
If you like it, hit that likebutton, share it and, most of
all, subscribe if you haven'talready subscribed.
(17:55):
We really appreciate that Wellwe have a friend of the podcast
guest returning Anytime.
We want to know what's going onin the northern border we can
get to Billy Ganji Abramson upin Toronto.
Been on the third time here,right, joey.
Yeah, yeah, third, at leastthird time, I think I feel like
I'm on there all the time.
(18:18):
God bless you.
We appreciate you taking timeout of your day and I apologize
I'm not a little bit moreprepared.
I should have had that pulledup.
How many times?
I believe it's the third time.
If it's the fourth, I apologize, but we're happy to have you
back.
For our listeners that haven'theard you before, give us a
little introduction of who youare, how you got involved with
the towing industry and whereyou are today with with your
(18:38):
business.
Yeah, I'm Joey Gagne, presidentof Abrams Towing.
President of the CanadianTowing Association.
I've been in the business forabout 40 years.
I grew up as a towing brat.
I rode around the tow truckwith my dad and learned the
industry from the passenger seatand then from the driver's seat
(19:02):
, and I dispatched, I managed mybusiness and so on and so forth
.
I'm still doing it today.
We're a third generation, myson working with me and, yeah,
still looking away at it and Ilove it and yeah, that's what I
do.
Tell us a little bit about thesize of your operation.
(19:24):
I know you've grown it quite abit from where you took it over
from Tyler.
Yeah, I started with one truckback in 1984, and we grew the
towing to about 200 trucks andthen we also have a transport
division which has about 100trucks.
So we do light heavy medium, wedo recoveries, we do a lot of
(19:50):
law enforcement towing, we doprivate tow aways, we do some
roadsides, we do pretty mucheverything you can think of.
We have a number of compounds.
We run an auction as well forthe cars that we have.
We do a lot of training, we doa lot of stuff that every tow-er
(20:12):
needs to do and a few otherthings that we do as a tow-er
and a transporter.
Well, it sounds like you gotyour hands full there.
Yeah, we're working hard.
We're working hard all the time.
It seems like we're working allthe time.
Yeah, I can respect that andnot only working all the time on
(20:36):
your own business.
It sounds like you have time tovolunteer for the towing
association as well.
Yeah, I've been involved in allthe towing associations that
we've had here for the last 40years in Canada, or the ones in
my area anyways and we created anational association a number
(21:01):
of years ago to try and helpeach other in different regions.
Canada is such a huge area,very much like the States.
We have people on the WestCoast, the East Coast and
Central, so trying to get ourpeople understanding that
everybody has the same problemswherever they are.
If you're in Vancouver, ifyou're in Halififax or if you're
(21:24):
in Toronto or Montreal, a lotof towers have the same issues
and we, you know, a lot of timeswe think we're working in a
silo.
We don't know that everyoneelse has the exact same problem.
So there's a lot of uniquesolutions that we come up with
and we like to share thatinformation amongst each other
very much, like this podcast,share information with tours and
(21:49):
make them come up withsolutions to the problems that
they might have and make theirlives a lot easier.
So I love being part of anassociation and offering those
types of solutions to people andlearning things about my own
business as well that I may notbe aware of.
That's a good outlook and Idefinitely agree.
(22:09):
There's so much to gain fromwhen you participate with an
association.
It amazes me that more folksaren't involved.
So what's going on up there?
We had a couple of newsarticles.
We read what.
We've come back to comment onthem, but just in general,
what's going on up there?
We had a couple of newsarticles.
We'll come back and comment onthem, but just in general,
what's going on?
(22:31):
Well in Ontario?
I mean, we're having a lot ofissues all over the country and,
like in Alberta, they're havinga lot of chasing, which seems
to have taken over.
Which seems to have taken overand a lot of people are
complaining that that's becausein Ontario, which is our
(22:55):
province, that we're in, whereToronto is, in Ontario, we have
a new regulation that came inlast year that regulates a lot
of the.
It's like a license thatregulates a lot of the.
It's like a license, and it isa license that regulates how we
(23:17):
operate and some of theresponsibilities we have to the
consumer when we do provide ourservices.
And that has resulted in sometowers that can't meet the
standards moving to areas wherethey're not regulated.
So that's created some problemsin some of those other areas.
But to you know, to address someof the issues that you
mentioned, definitely theregulation has created a
(23:37):
different environment than we'vehad in the past.
There's some people that aregetting on board and some people
that aren't.
So the thing I read about thecar being stored and the charges
coming from the OPP, that's anew situation.
Well, those problems werehappening and have been
(24:00):
happening for a number of years,where there's some towers that
you know, kind of just do theirown thing and the church is
considered to be outside thenorm for the rates and then
they're holding people hostageto get their car back.
So the new regulations kind ofaddresses a lot of those issues
(24:22):
and this person seems to haverun afoul of the new regulations
and allowed themselves to getyou know, to get themselves in
significant trouble because ofthe new regulations and also
because you know they're goingoutside of what is reasonable.
I mean there's reasonablepricing and then there's
(24:42):
unreasonable pricing and I am abig proponent for getting you
know getting what you need toget paid to make a living.
But there is also some businessmodels that aren't quite as
reasonable as others.
That's a very nice way ofsaying it, very accurate as well
.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So I have a question to ask.
You said Toronto came up withnew legislation.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
The province did.
The province of Ontario is ahuge province.
It's like the size,population-wise, of, say, new
York State and it's about thesize of Texas.
It's huge and we have aregulation that covers the whole
(25:29):
province, including all thecities of Toronto, the largest
city in Canada, and happens tobe located in Ontario.
So we've got, I don't know,somewhere in the Toronto area,
somewhere around 10 or 12million people, and the
(25:50):
regulation covers all of thetourism in the whole province of
Ontario and this operator thatyou're talking about it's from
Ottawa, which is actually thecapital city of Canada.
It's also at the far end of theprovince, so it's about 300
miles away from where my headoffice and this operator.
(26:14):
He's regulated by the sameregulation that I am and he
obviously, you know, has adifferent business model.
Right, sounds like it.
That's a good explanation,though, because Ontario I've
traveled it a little bit is vast, as can be, and very
(26:36):
spiritually populated in mostareas, until you get to
somewhere like Toronto, which isjust as dense, population wise
as New York City or anywhereelse.
One of the things about Torontothat I remember was the huge I
guess they're calling them the400 series highways with six and
(26:57):
eight lanes at some points inboth directions.
Yeah, we have huge highwayshere.
We have some of the biggesthighways in North America, and
we have half a million people aday driving by, driving along,
close to where I am, the mainhighway 401.
There's about half a millionpeople a day driving that route.
(27:21):
Half a million cars, Half amillion cars.
Yeah, that's very intense.
That's in the Hoping, like ours.
Yeah, that's great intenseincident management challenges,
I'm sure.
Yeah, definitely.
Any comments about the otherarticle we read?
Well, I mean, I would say theone you're talking about with
(27:54):
this guy holding people hostage.
I mean I think that theregulation will address that,
and the one you're talking aboutwith this tax.
How's like extortion?
Yeah, I have heard of this fora while.
I've heard of towers being it'snot on the 401, because the 401,
we have a tow system like anexclusive tow system, where
(28:18):
certain contractors havedifferent areas.
It's very exclusive.
You're not allowed to go onthose areas.
It's very similar to otherareas that you have in the
States with their police tripsystems.
So we have another toll highwaythat runs through the city of
(28:41):
Toronto and I think that's wherethis is happening.
I've heard about it in a numberof different areas, about this
taxation.
So these are criminalsbasically trying to control
certain strips of area wherethey're saying, well, you can't
work in this area, otherwisewe'll do something to you, and I
(29:02):
think that they're making sideagreements with you guys and
saying, hey, pay me a little bitof money, you can sit on that
corner and you can sit on thatcorner and you can sit on that
corner, and I've heardsecondhand a lot about it, but
it's not a new issue.
But it's a horrible issuebecause obviously we believe in
(29:23):
free enterprise and if you'redoing your job properly, you
should be able to function andoperate anywhere that anyone
else is.
Absolutely.
I figured that was what wasgoing on with that, but I just
wanted to hear from someone whohad a very dire view of the
situation.
Yeah, it's horrible.
It's the idea that somebody'syou know beating somebody up or
(29:47):
hurting somebody or threateningsomebody.
For that reason, we're going totake a quick break.
Can you hang around for a break?
I'll be here.
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Speaker 1 (31:03):
Welcome back listeners, of course.
Just like Wes Wilburn said,thank you for sharing this
podcast with your friends.
Please like and review it andshare everywhere.
If you hear one of the industryexperts, like a Joey Garnier
from Canada, by all means dialthe hotline number in the
(31:25):
podcast center 706-409-5603.
Now Wes, we had one listenerthat actually called and wanted
to know.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Could you explain a little bit more about that
accident or that tow?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
in Columbus, Georgia, where it first started at
$4,000, then went up to $9,000.
And evidently, as you weresaying, they settled for $200.
Could you share a little bitmore so that our listener
understands what you're actuallyreferring to?
Well, all I can really do isverify that your numbers are
(32:02):
correct.
They sound really off-base tome as well, but that's what this
story says.
Well, the original story weread, I guess last week or the
week before I guess it was lastweek the original story talked
about it was a $4,000 bill andit went to $9,000 because they
put a $5,100 charge for legalfees.
(32:26):
Oh my Apparently, according tothis article I don't know, is
the newspaper local?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It was a local news article that I read in Columbus
Georgia, but I have a feelinghaving articles in the paper, in
the local paper, because theyoung lady that owned the car
was also being interviewed.
I have a feeling that hassomething to do with them just
trying to get make her pay theminimum $200 and just be done
(32:58):
with it.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Well, whatever the motives are, it's horrible
business practice.
It looks horrible.
That's just a horriblesituation in my mind.
Do you all have situations likethat up there, joey?
Yeah, I mean those type ofsituations are offensive.
I mean it's horrible that theperson I want the tour to get
(33:22):
paid.
I think that that's important toany of us that are towers that
have been in this business formany, many years.
We want to make sure that thetowers get paid a fair rate.
But I mean, when you get into adispute and your price goes
from $4,000 to $9,000, it almostseems abusive.
You know, not knowing thesituation 100%, you know I
(33:43):
always wonder 100.
You know, I always wonder.
You know what led to them thinkthat that would be reasonable
and then to back down to thepoint where you go 200.
Was it really a 200 total in thebeginning or was?
Was it really a four thousanddollar toll or was it really?
You know?
And if it was a 200 total in inthe beginning, then why are you
(34:06):
escalating to that point?
And if it's really a $4,000toll, then stick to your guns.
I mean, if you're entitled tothat money, you're entitled to
that money, and if you have togo to court or you've got to do
something.
We've all been down that road.
It's not pretty right.
Sometimes you get intosituations where you get into a
(34:27):
dispute with a customer and thecustomer gets in a dispute with
you as the vendor.
But I mean, you're entitled toget paid for the work you do.
Just make sure you can justifyit, and one of the first
justifications is making surethat you know there's a norm to
what you do.
If the going rate for theservices is $200 an hour and
(34:50):
you're charging $2,000 an hour,then how do you justify that?
What's the difference betweenyou and someone else?
And if you've put in 10 hoursand you use your heavy rotator
or something like that, then$4,000 is nothing.
That's cheap.
So what was the driving factorand why is it that you feel that
(35:16):
you're like?
What drove you to drop yourpants to $200?
That just seems unreasonable.
I don't think you could do aservice for $200.
I don't care what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I did agree with.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And I think sometimes the difference in the price
charge is based on who's payingit and I believe that is the
worst of all.
It should be the same emergencyservice rate is the same
emergency service rate, nomatter who's paying it.
Yeah, and you also want to makesure that you know, like, how
(35:54):
does this get to the paper andto the media in such a way that
you're the bad guy?
Because if you're not the badguy and it's just a dispute,
then you should be able tojustify your invoicing.
I always tell my people, youknow, when you're writing an
invoice, these are theparameters, these are our rates
for these different services.
Make sure that you've got, youknow, documentation and pictures
(36:18):
and things that justify whatwe're going to charge.
And if you've done that, youknow, stand your ground.
And if you haven't done that, Imean there's a somewhere in the
middle between $200 and $4,000,and I don't know what it is,
but there's just nojustification for going from
(36:39):
$4,000 to $200 unless you'redoing something wrong.
That's all I can say.
It just seems very wrong, orsomebody is leveraging you and
you're letting yourself bemanipulated or taken advantage
of.
The tollers deserve to get paid.
As I said, $200 is not.
(37:00):
I don't do a lot for $200,right, I wouldn't do all.
I definitely wouldn't be doinga recovery for $200.
Well, we totally agree withthat and I'm glad you're so open
about talking about on thesubject.
A lot of people shy away fromit, but it's a very good subject
.
You know your true cost, youcalculate it.
You know what it costs to run amile.
(37:22):
It's very, very difficult tostart the truck up and go do a
call for under $200.
Listen, I learned from the kneeof Donnie Cruz, who's a good
friend of mine, canadian boy.
He always gave me grief for notcharging enough.
(37:42):
When I first started a businesshe always said make sure you
know what your costs are, makesure you run your business
properly, make sure you'recharging for your services and
don't feel bad to be the guythat charges.
Feel uh, uh bad to be the guythat charges a little more than
everybody else, but make sureyou can justify it.
If you can't justify it, youknow because you, you, you, you
(38:03):
haven't done your, your work,you're putting yourself, you're
hurting yourself, you're nothurting the client and you're,
and you really make yourself, uh, you know the victim of, of, uh
, your own, uh, you know thevictim of your own, you know
your own circumstances becauseyou know you're entitled to get
paid.
You did the work, get paid forit, but do the work to make sure
(38:26):
that people can trust you right.
They feel like you did what youdid, and these rates are
reasonable.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
You're only hurting yourself when you do that.
You're hurting your company ifyou own it, because as profit
they can go back into benefits,insurance tires.
If you're the employee, you'rehurting yourself too, because if
it's a commission call thenthat's a little bit less than
you're making and also you'rehurting your employer, which
(38:55):
also goes into benefits.
You know things like that toimprove your, your trust.
You're getting equipment.
So being fair and charging afair price just makes your
company a little bit betterbecause it helps the economics
all the way around 100, yeah,and a lot of people don't see
that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
They don't see what it actually you know, just when
we talk about numbers, of coursewe're just talking around
numbers.
We're not saying that's whatanybody should charge.
But people don't understand.
Someone like yourself and otheroperators are paying a living
wage taking care of theiremployees, running safe trucks
up and down the road,participating in their employees
running safe trucks up and downthe road, participating in
(39:35):
their communities, probablydonating cars to the fire
department and all kinds ofother stuff.
That people don't see behindthe scenes when they hear the
price of an average tow, which,you know, as you say, the price
of just a starting point of anaverage tow has gone up
tremendously.
This is a starting point ofwhat I would tell has gone up
tremendously.
Well, to your point, peoplethink when you come there and
(39:57):
give them a booster or a lockoutor a tire change or you do
these other services, they'repaying for that half an hour or
hour that you spend there, butthey're paying for all the time
before, all the prep time,paying for the piece of
equipment that got you there.
They're paying for all yourtraining, your experience, your
knowledge, all the things thatyou have had to build up.
That didn't just come to you,you know in a, you know in a in
(40:21):
a dream, right?
It all came from a lot of workand effort and investment along
the way.
So all that stuff has to bepart of how you build for, and
you know you're entitled to getpaid for all the costs that are
related to running your business, building your business,
(40:42):
growing your business andsustaining your business.
That's very well said.
It really is.
Well, joey, we definitelyappreciate you being here.
Anything, tell us what's goingon with the association.
Do you all have any meetingscoming up or shows this summer?
Well, we do a trade show everysummer with our provincial
(41:02):
association.
They always do a trade showwhich is like a tow show in
Kitchener, ontario, and it's agreat show.
They do a great show every year.
And then we're doing.
The Canadian Towing Associationhas built a relationship with
(41:26):
the government through thisorganization called ThriveWise
and we're doing.
All the tow trucks in Ontariohave to be do a preliminary
training, certification course,not really training, it's more
of like a proof that you've donetraining, a proof that you have
experience or knowledge.
(41:47):
And we built we built arelationship with this
organization, drivewise andwe're helping to manage that
process Because the governmentwants.
I think we have 7,500 tow truckdrivers in Ontario and they want
them all to have done some sortof certification course to
(42:09):
prove that they've got the basicknowledge of the regulation and
basic knowledge of how a towtruck works.
So we're putting a lot of effortinto that and that's really
probably where most of ourefforts are at the current time.
It's been a lot.
(42:30):
It's been really a lot to takein when the government gets a
hold of you.
They got you by the tail andnow they're figuring ways to tax
us on all this stuff.
So we've got to make sure we'remanaging that.
We're doing a lot of lobbying,making sure that the government
understands that we want to bepart of the process to make sure
(42:52):
that they don't overreach.
We believe they've overreacheda bit already, but a lot of it's
in response to the criminalityand stuff like that that's been
happening with co-operators thatwere taking advantage of the
consumers or each other.
So, yeah, we've got our handsfull.
(43:12):
Lots going on with theassociation Boy, it sounds like
it.
If somebody wants to getinvolved with the association,
how do they get more information?
They can just go to theCanadian Towing Association.
Canadian Towing Association.
We have a website, We've got aFacebook page and you can join
(43:35):
up right on the website.
And if you want to do thecertification courses and stuff
like that, you can do itdirectly through us.
We'll organize it for you.
And there's three vendorsthere's us, there's RecMaster
and then there's anotherorganization called C3CA.
(43:56):
That we're the ones that havethe best deal.
We're the ones that are puttingit together a very aggressive
program that allows the towersto do their own training or
certification.
So I can attest to my driver'sexperience.
So if he does a Wes Wilberingcourse, I can attest to my
(44:16):
driver's experience.
So if he does a Wes Wilberingcourse, I can attest that he's
done that course, he has theseskills and that he's qualified.
Then he just goes online, does agovernment-mandated online
course and then, he can getcertified online course and then
(44:38):
uh, and then you can getcertified.
So, uh, um, I can do that.
The way we built it is that Ican be, I can get myself
certified, or my company canhave certified trainers that can
verify and certify that theseoperators have already.
They already have theirexperience, whether it's
pre-existing experience or sometraining that we have to provide
either ourselves or through athird party.
So we've we created thatrelationship with the government
(45:02):
through the Ministry ofTransportation, so that our
association has the ability toempower each tower, each towing
company, to provide their owncertification, which is really a
big thing, because we want touse everyone's training.
(45:23):
But we also want to be able tocertify experienced operators as
well, without them having to goback to the drawing board,
which is really the big thing,because Ontario is so big like I
said, it's like the size ofTexas.
There's some towers that are1,000 miles away from other
towers and the training is notnecessarily coming to a rural
(45:44):
Ontario, so it makes it morecost-effective for them.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
It sounds like it's giving a little bit of autonomy
back to the tow companies aswell.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Which is really a good thing, especially with your
geographical situation.
That system sounds like itmakes a lot of sense.
Yeah, we want the towers to beable to have that certain amount
of control.
They're going to have to gooutsource other training.
Everybody does it, I do it, weuse your training, we use other
(46:21):
training, we find training,there's training within all
different organizations, but youneed to be able to control some
of your own destiny, and towersare independent by nature and
they're all over the place.
We want to make sure they cando some of it online, some of it
hands-on in their own yards.
(46:43):
That gives them that autonomy,as you mentioned, which I think
is really, really important asan entrepreneur, as a business
owner, absolutely Well, joe, Iappreciate you giving us time
out of your day.
We are going to have you on alittle bit more regular basis.
As we talked about earlier,we're trying to focus on the
(47:04):
news, the daily news, on aweekly basis and definitely we
got a whole lot of news from you, so I can't thank you for
coming on and sharing with usanything you'd like to say in uh
party.
I want to thank you for havingme on.
I really appreciate you guysdoing a great job and keep
(47:24):
getting the message out there.
The industry, thank you.
Thank you, joe, it was really apleasure.
Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast.
Remember this is your podcastto promote safety, education,
positive public relations andnetworking within the
professional and business-mindedtowing and recovery industry.
I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor
(00:27):
, and my other host is WesWilburn, over 40-year towing
industry veteran, the founder ofAmerican Towing Recovery
Institute of Fayetteville, northCarolina.
He has produced and conductedtraining and certification
programs for leading towingcompanies, equipment
(00:48):
distributors, towingassociations, dot, fire
departments, rescue, as well asmilitary installations across
the United States.
Wes has been published over 100times in major towing
publications published over 100times in major towing
(01:08):
publications.
Wes has developed many courses,including the most recent
awareness-level course for allresponders that specialize in
electric vehicles as well ashybrid, natural gas and hydrogen
vehicles.
Wes has provided insight as themain speaker for over 30 years
at more than 900 trainingclasses and has been recognized
(01:31):
as one of America's greatesttowing trainers.
He is well known for hisstraightforward but
down-to-earth teaching style.
(02:05):
No-transcript.
Without further ado, here's mydear friend and a great guy for
our industry, wes Wilkins.
Well, dj, as always, you're waytoo kind with your introduction
.
I mean.
I certainly appreciate your kindwords.
Just got back from Cleveland,ohio, over the weekend, did a
(02:28):
class up there, dj and first ofall, driving up there, I drove
instead of flew.
You know you got the strikegoing on at Charlotte Airport.
I was afraid of that maybepossibly affecting my flight so
I just decided to drive.
You know Cleveland's rightthere eight hours, so it's right
on the verge of being asefficient a drive as it is to
(02:50):
fly.
So I drove up there and I gotdelayed behind a major wreck in
West Virginia.
I was going to sit down for acouple hours.
But by the time I got up intoOhio it was snowing and as I got
closer to where I was going,just outside of Cleveland, it
was snowing.
And it was snowing First time Iwas driven late at night in a
(03:12):
driving snowstorm, I tell youkind of got the old heart
percolating a little bit.
So we got up there and did atwo-day school at a trucking
company that just bought a towtruck and going to tow their
vehicles with it.
So we had a real good school.
Jt Reasoner came out and helpedme and we did a lot of hands-on
(03:35):
with them towing their vehiclesthat they owned.
And then I left just a littlebit before training was over.
On Saturday Everybody said youknow they had it, it was under
control, go ahead and get out ofhere, since I was going to try
(03:56):
to drive maybe all the way homeor part of the way home.
So I got in that vehicle, djgot filled up with fuel, got
something to eat and, you know,put it in cruise control and
eased on down the highway.
Wasn't running super fast, butI wasn't wasting no time either,
and I got all the way back intoNorth Carolina and I had
experience that, I have to say,really made me take perspective.
(04:18):
I'm traveling 70 miles an hour,probably in a 65 zone or
whatever, but I'm boogieingright along is what I'm saying
to you, my rural highway limitedaccess highway and I just
looked down at the podcast.
I looked back up, thank God aminute or two earlier.
(04:39):
No way back to anything, butI'm looking.
I guess I mentioned lookingdown at the podcast of how
things could have been differentthan it happened a minute
earlier.
So I'm driving down the road andI'm looking and getting ready
to enter a construction zone andthere's a car coming at me and
it's a two lane road.
There's nobody in my right handlane, so I jump over real quick
(05:02):
and zoom, the car goes by me.
And I jump over real quick andzoom, the car goes by me.
I'm looking, thinking, man,what's going on here?
And long story short,apparently they were not.
Apparently there was anorthbound car in the southbound
lane.
Oh, my Nearly missed the head-oncollision, like I said one
(05:22):
minute earlier, where I glanceddown for a second switching a
podcast.
I would have missed that beat.
So I got to tell you everybody,take some perspective on how
close things can be.
And then, from that point onwhich I drove in, let's say, six
hours or the eight hour trip, Idon't believe I saw one police
officer up until that incident.
(05:46):
Then, as I got closer to homeand it got later on the Saturday
night, more police out, morepolice out, more police out,
which, you know, thinking backto selling days, saturday night
was always a busy time forselling for the police.
Long story short, I feel like Idodged a bullet by a split
(06:07):
second Because I'm telling youyou know they were coming up and
they didn't slow down oranything.
There were bullets goingnorthbound.
I called the state police andit had been reported by other
people, so hopefully they gothim stopped.
Holy moly, that was a closecall.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's as close as you can get I mean head-on collision
is if you're going 70 miles anhour and they're going.
I didn't do that kind of mathwhen I was in school because I
hated it, but that's probablynot survivable.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It was a big vehicle too.
I've done that for years taughta class, gotten in the vehicle
and driven home.
You know, one of the things isthis was a Friday-Saturday class
.
Normally it's a Saturday-Sunday, so that driving home on a
Sunday night is a piece of a piedifference too.
Anyway, it gave me fresh energy.
(07:08):
I feel thankful there's a goodLord out there looking out for
me.
It just gave me someperspective about life.
I do need to focus and getthings accomplished that I want
to get accomplished.
But we had a great school upthere.
I survived the snow okay.
Got home to my lovely wife,april.
(07:30):
Speaking of April, she's gotsome news stories she's going to
read for us.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So, speaking of near misses and Hambridge Heights,
hambridge Heights towing owner,bill Hambridge this is out of
Plainwall, michigan had not anear miss, he actually got hit.
He got hit by a car WhileHambridge was hooking into a
disabled vehicle.
Officials said a westboundtraveling vehicle crashed into
the disabled vehicle which thencrashed into the wrecker.
(08:00):
This one, bill Hambridge 15feet into the air also moved the
wrecker.
This one, bill Hambrick's 15feet into the air also moved the
wrecker 15 feet ahead.
Bill says this has happened tohim four or five times over the
past 40 years.
It's never been his fault.
It's always somebody that runsinto him or something.
(08:21):
But that's definitely leavesthat 360 degree.
Uh, head on a swivel.
Head on a swivel, definitely Uh.
The driver of the third vehiclewas cited for failure to move
over to an emergency vehicle anda civil infraction.
Um, the driver violatedMichigan's move over law which
(08:45):
requires motorists to slow downand move into an open lane when
passing stationary emergencyvehicles.
Apparently this has happened acouple times in in michigan
because earlier that week barryand gilligan's towing in grand
rapids, there was a crashbetween a tow truck driver and a
vehicle happened.
The Tuesday before that.
(09:06):
The company said a tow truckdriver was hit while responding
to a crash and the impact tossedthem into the road while they
were loading up a vehicle.
And then we interviewed MattFinster last year, right after
this had happened.
His son was killed.
It's a similar thing, but notexactly.
(09:27):
He was on the side of the roadand he got hit.
Later that month that man thathit him was sentenced after
pleading no contest to a crashthat hit and killed the tow
truck driver, killed the towtruck driver.
We had, like I said, we hadMatt win a podcast last year
(09:48):
right after this happened, maybea week or two after this
happened, and DJ and I were bothat the Wall of the Fallen this
year where his name was put onthe wall.
Dj, wasn't that just soemotional?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, very much so April, Just like every year, but
it was a little bit morebecause Matt Spencer had spoken
on our podcast about his son andabout the whole situation and
it was moving.
The ceremony was moving, but weknew these people and so all of
(10:27):
a sudden now it's a wholedifferent ballgame.
And when that family let go, theballoon that flew in the air.
All the people were in tearsbecause this is something that
we have to address with ourbrothers and sisters in the
towing industry that areinvolved.
Work in the white line, younever know.
(10:50):
That's why safety is such a bigpush by Wes Wilber.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, he definitely does have it in every training
seminar that he does, and it'slike it's second nature with
with us.
So you cannot have too much.
You cannot have too much safetyin other news I'm going to have
west to um to uh help me withthis.
(11:18):
When we did, we read an articlethe other day about one of the
last podcasts about a towingcompany in Columbus, Georgia
Coles Towing, that overcharged alittle bit to the young lady.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, we don't want to say overcharged, we don't
know, but the bill was $4,000 toremove the car from a flower
bed.
To remove the car from a flowerbed, and they had to.
On a recorded line they sharedwith everybody that.
They told the young lady thatthe car had to come back for an
(11:56):
insurance company to inspect it.
So anyway, long story short,the $4,000 bill.
They re-upped it to make it a$9,000 bill and then they ended
up taking the car back to herfor $200.
So and this comes from thetowing company, this information
(12:18):
comes from the towing companyitself.
So that was just an update on astory last week.
Now here's a story where asimilar situation happened north
of the border up in Canada andI'm going to read that story and
our guest after the break I'mgoing to ask him for his opinion
(12:39):
on it sounds like a verysimilar situation.
A young person has their cartowed.
They had for a week's storage.
It was $5,000 for one week ofstorage.
Everybody knows a mall fortowning companies being
profitable, but sometimes we'veseen situations with extreme
(13:00):
charges.
But there was a secondinvestigation from the OPP,
which is the Ontario ProvincialPolice, and then it says
advertisement and then it saysSouthway Towing is facing the
following charges so operated.
Charged in demand of paymentwithout consent.
(13:21):
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to obtain consent.
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to obtain consent.
Vehicle storage operator.
Failure to comply withprescribed access requirements.
It goes on with several others.
The last one is it falls underthe vehicle storage operator.
Fail to make reasonable effortsto release vehicle upon request
(13:44):
.
Failure to make fail to makereasonable efforts to release
vehicle upon request.
From what I see, the Canadianslook at operating a towing
company completely differentthan it does down here in the
state.
Not sure if that's a good thingor a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
We'll talk about that with our guests.
And then the last thing, andthis is in Toronto.
It says two truck drivers inthe Toronto area are being
illegally taxed, and then theword tax is in.
Quotations from other companieshave seen some forced to pay
(14:28):
thousands and, according to atleast two sources in the
industry, have contributed to arash of violence in recent
months, including at least onefatal shooting.
The sources one operator andone driver spoke to the Star on
the condition of anonymity,citing a fear for their safety.
So this seems pretty severe.
Apparently there's laws thatthey put in place for that, but
(14:51):
they figured a way around therules and the regulations to
still get this money from othertowers.
It says this is on the 400series highways and what tells
me it's like the 401, thosetypes.
That might be something that wecan delve into a little bit too
.
Yeah with our guests, absolutelyWith our guests, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So why don't we take a quick break?
And right after the break we'llcome back and introduce our
returning guests.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
TRAA, the Injured Drivers Fund and legislation
that makes all of us safer arewhat makes this industry special
.
Ina Towing supports all of thisand more.
When there is a need, gayRochester is always one of the
first to come forward and askhow can I help?
The American Towing andRecovery Institute is honored to
(15:45):
have the support of the INATowing Network.
Together, we all make adifference.
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Speaker 1 (17:08):
Welcome back listeners.
You're listening to theAmerican Tone Recovery Institute
podcast with Wes Wilburn andApril Wilburn and DJ Harrington.
Every week, we do our best tobring you informative episodes
like the one right now.
Informative episodes like theone right now.
Make sure you download andlisten for events on Spotify,
itunes, pandora, stitcher, iartMedia, amazon or wherever you
(17:34):
get your podcasts.
So, without further ado, let mepass it over to our main man,
wes Wilburn.
Thank you, dj, and I do want tothank all our loyal listeners
16,000 subscribers now.
We, you, dj, and I do want tothank all our loyal listeners
16,000 subscribers now.
We certainly appreciate that.
If you like it, hit that likebutton, share it and, most of
all, subscribe if you haven'talready subscribed.
(17:55):
We really appreciate that Wellwe have a friend of the podcast
guest returning Anytime.
We want to know what's going onin the northern border we can
get to Billy Ganji Abramson upin Toronto.
Been on the third time here,right, joey.
Yeah, yeah, third, at leastthird time, I think I feel like
I'm on there all the time.
(18:18):
God bless you.
We appreciate you taking timeout of your day and I apologize
I'm not a little bit moreprepared.
I should have had that pulledup.
How many times?
I believe it's the third time.
If it's the fourth, I apologize, but we're happy to have you
back.
For our listeners that haven'theard you before, give us a
little introduction of who youare, how you got involved with
the towing industry and whereyou are today with with your
(18:38):
business.
Yeah, I'm Joey Gagne, presidentof Abrams Towing.
President of the CanadianTowing Association.
I've been in the business forabout 40 years.
I grew up as a towing brat.
I rode around the tow truckwith my dad and learned the
industry from the passenger seatand then from the driver's seat
(19:02):
, and I dispatched, I managed mybusiness and so on and so forth
.
I'm still doing it today.
We're a third generation, myson working with me and, yeah,
still looking away at it and Ilove it and yeah, that's what I
do.
Tell us a little bit about thesize of your operation.
(19:24):
I know you've grown it quite abit from where you took it over
from Tyler.
Yeah, I started with one truckback in 1984, and we grew the
towing to about 200 trucks andthen we also have a transport
division which has about 100trucks.
So we do light heavy medium, wedo recoveries, we do a lot of
(19:50):
law enforcement towing, we doprivate tow aways, we do some
roadsides, we do pretty mucheverything you can think of.
We have a number of compounds.
We run an auction as well forthe cars that we have.
We do a lot of training, we doa lot of stuff that every tow-er
(20:12):
needs to do and a few otherthings that we do as a tow-er
and a transporter.
Well, it sounds like you gotyour hands full there.
Yeah, we're working hard.
We're working hard all the time.
It seems like we're working allthe time.
Yeah, I can respect that andnot only working all the time on
(20:36):
your own business.
It sounds like you have time tovolunteer for the towing
association as well.
Yeah, I've been involved in allthe towing associations that
we've had here for the last 40years in Canada, or the ones in
my area anyways and we created anational association a number
(21:01):
of years ago to try and helpeach other in different regions.
Canada is such a huge area,very much like the States.
We have people on the WestCoast, the East Coast and
Central, so trying to get ourpeople understanding that
everybody has the same problemswherever they are.
If you're in Vancouver, ifyou're in Halififax or if you're
(21:24):
in Toronto or Montreal, a lotof towers have the same issues
and we, you know, a lot of timeswe think we're working in a
silo.
We don't know that everyoneelse has the exact same problem.
So there's a lot of uniquesolutions that we come up with
and we like to share thatinformation amongst each other
very much, like this podcast,share information with tours and
(21:49):
make them come up withsolutions to the problems that
they might have and make theirlives a lot easier.
So I love being part of anassociation and offering those
types of solutions to people andlearning things about my own
business as well that I may notbe aware of.
That's a good outlook and Idefinitely agree.
(22:09):
There's so much to gain fromwhen you participate with an
association.
It amazes me that more folksaren't involved.
So what's going on up there?
We had a couple of newsarticles.
We read what.
We've come back to comment onthem, but just in general,
what's going on up there?
We had a couple of newsarticles.
We'll come back and comment onthem, but just in general,
what's going on?
(22:31):
Well in Ontario?
I mean, we're having a lot ofissues all over the country and,
like in Alberta, they're havinga lot of chasing, which seems
to have taken over.
Which seems to have taken overand a lot of people are
complaining that that's becausein Ontario, which is our
(22:55):
province, that we're in, whereToronto is, in Ontario, we have
a new regulation that came inlast year that regulates a lot
of the.
It's like a license thatregulates a lot of the.
It's like a license, and it isa license that regulates how we
(23:17):
operate and some of theresponsibilities we have to the
consumer when we do provide ourservices.
And that has resulted in sometowers that can't meet the
standards moving to areas wherethey're not regulated.
So that's created some problemsin some of those other areas.
But to you know, to address someof the issues that you
mentioned, definitely theregulation has created a
(23:37):
different environment than we'vehad in the past.
There's some people that aregetting on board and some people
that aren't.
So the thing I read about thecar being stored and the charges
coming from the OPP, that's anew situation.
Well, those problems werehappening and have been
(24:00):
happening for a number of years,where there's some towers that
you know, kind of just do theirown thing and the church is
considered to be outside thenorm for the rates and then
they're holding people hostageto get their car back.
So the new regulations kind ofaddresses a lot of those issues
(24:22):
and this person seems to haverun afoul of the new regulations
and allowed themselves to getyou know, to get themselves in
significant trouble because ofthe new regulations and also
because you know they're goingoutside of what is reasonable.
I mean there's reasonablepricing and then there's
(24:42):
unreasonable pricing and I am abig proponent for getting you
know getting what you need toget paid to make a living.
But there is also some businessmodels that aren't quite as
reasonable as others.
That's a very nice way ofsaying it, very accurate as well
.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So I have a question to ask.
You said Toronto came up withnew legislation.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
The province did.
The province of Ontario is ahuge province.
It's like the size,population-wise, of, say, new
York State and it's about thesize of Texas.
It's huge and we have aregulation that covers the whole
(25:29):
province, including all thecities of Toronto, the largest
city in Canada, and happens tobe located in Ontario.
So we've got, I don't know,somewhere in the Toronto area,
somewhere around 10 or 12million people, and the
(25:50):
regulation covers all of thetourism in the whole province of
Ontario and this operator thatyou're talking about it's from
Ottawa, which is actually thecapital city of Canada.
It's also at the far end of theprovince, so it's about 300
miles away from where my headoffice and this operator.
(26:14):
He's regulated by the sameregulation that I am and he
obviously, you know, has adifferent business model.
Right, sounds like it.
That's a good explanation,though, because Ontario I've
traveled it a little bit is vast, as can be, and very
(26:36):
spiritually populated in mostareas, until you get to
somewhere like Toronto, which isjust as dense, population wise
as New York City or anywhereelse.
One of the things about Torontothat I remember was the huge I
guess they're calling them the400 series highways with six and
(26:57):
eight lanes at some points inboth directions.
Yeah, we have huge highwayshere.
We have some of the biggesthighways in North America, and
we have half a million people aday driving by, driving along,
close to where I am, the mainhighway 401.
There's about half a millionpeople a day driving that route.
(27:21):
Half a million cars, Half amillion cars.
Yeah, that's very intense.
That's in the Hoping, like ours.
Yeah, that's great intenseincident management challenges,
I'm sure.
Yeah, definitely.
Any comments about the otherarticle we read?
Well, I mean, I would say theone you're talking about with
(27:54):
this guy holding people hostage.
I mean I think that theregulation will address that,
and the one you're talking aboutwith this tax.
How's like extortion?
Yeah, I have heard of this fora while.
I've heard of towers being it'snot on the 401, because the 401,
we have a tow system like anexclusive tow system, where
(28:18):
certain contractors havedifferent areas.
It's very exclusive.
You're not allowed to go onthose areas.
It's very similar to otherareas that you have in the
States with their police tripsystems.
So we have another toll highwaythat runs through the city of
(28:41):
Toronto and I think that's wherethis is happening.
I've heard about it in a numberof different areas, about this
taxation.
So these are criminalsbasically trying to control
certain strips of area wherethey're saying, well, you can't
work in this area, otherwisewe'll do something to you, and I
(29:02):
think that they're making sideagreements with you guys and
saying, hey, pay me a little bitof money, you can sit on that
corner and you can sit on thatcorner and you can sit on that
corner, and I've heardsecondhand a lot about it, but
it's not a new issue.
But it's a horrible issuebecause obviously we believe in
(29:23):
free enterprise and if you'redoing your job properly, you
should be able to function andoperate anywhere that anyone
else is.
Absolutely.
I figured that was what wasgoing on with that, but I just
wanted to hear from someone whohad a very dire view of the
situation.
Yeah, it's horrible.
It's the idea that somebody'syou know beating somebody up or
(29:47):
hurting somebody or threateningsomebody.
For that reason, we're going totake a quick break.
Can you hang around for a break?
I'll be here.
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Speaker 1 (31:03):
Welcome back listeners, of course.
Just like Wes Wilburn said,thank you for sharing this
podcast with your friends.
Please like and review it andshare everywhere.
If you hear one of the industryexperts, like a Joey Garnier
from Canada, by all means dialthe hotline number in the
(31:25):
podcast center 706-409-5603.
Now Wes, we had one listenerthat actually called and wanted
to know.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Could you explain a little bit more about that
accident or that tow?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
in Columbus, Georgia, where it first started at
$4,000, then went up to $9,000.
And evidently, as you weresaying, they settled for $200.
Could you share a little bitmore so that our listener
understands what you're actuallyreferring to?
Well, all I can really do isverify that your numbers are
(32:02):
correct.
They sound really off-base tome as well, but that's what this
story says.
Well, the original story weread, I guess last week or the
week before I guess it was lastweek the original story talked
about it was a $4,000 bill andit went to $9,000 because they
put a $5,100 charge for legalfees.
(32:26):
Oh my Apparently, according tothis article I don't know, is
the newspaper local?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It was a local news article that I read in Columbus
Georgia, but I have a feelinghaving articles in the paper, in
the local paper, because theyoung lady that owned the car
was also being interviewed.
I have a feeling that hassomething to do with them just
trying to get make her pay theminimum $200 and just be done
(32:58):
with it.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Well, whatever the motives are, it's horrible
business practice.
It looks horrible.
That's just a horriblesituation in my mind.
Do you all have situations likethat up there, joey?
Yeah, I mean those type ofsituations are offensive.
I mean it's horrible that theperson I want the tour to get
(33:22):
paid.
I think that that's important toany of us that are towers that
have been in this business formany, many years.
We want to make sure that thetowers get paid a fair rate.
But I mean, when you get into adispute and your price goes
from $4,000 to $9,000, it almostseems abusive.
You know, not knowing thesituation 100%, you know I
(33:43):
always wonder 100.
You know, I always wonder.
You know what led to them thinkthat that would be reasonable
and then to back down to thepoint where you go 200.
Was it really a 200 total in thebeginning or was?
Was it really a four thousanddollar toll or was it really?
You know?
And if it was a 200 total in inthe beginning, then why are you
(34:06):
escalating to that point?
And if it's really a $4,000toll, then stick to your guns.
I mean, if you're entitled tothat money, you're entitled to
that money, and if you have togo to court or you've got to do
something.
We've all been down that road.
It's not pretty right.
Sometimes you get intosituations where you get into a
(34:27):
dispute with a customer and thecustomer gets in a dispute with
you as the vendor.
But I mean, you're entitled toget paid for the work you do.
Just make sure you can justifyit, and one of the first
justifications is making surethat you know there's a norm to
what you do.
If the going rate for theservices is $200 an hour and
(34:50):
you're charging $2,000 an hour,then how do you justify that?
What's the difference betweenyou and someone else?
And if you've put in 10 hoursand you use your heavy rotator
or something like that, then$4,000 is nothing.
That's cheap.
So what was the driving factorand why is it that you feel that
(35:16):
you're like?
What drove you to drop yourpants to $200?
That just seems unreasonable.
I don't think you could do aservice for $200.
I don't care what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I did agree with.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And I think sometimes the difference in the price
charge is based on who's payingit and I believe that is the
worst of all.
It should be the same emergencyservice rate is the same
emergency service rate, nomatter who's paying it.
Yeah, and you also want to makesure that you know, like, how
(35:54):
does this get to the paper andto the media in such a way that
you're the bad guy?
Because if you're not the badguy and it's just a dispute,
then you should be able tojustify your invoicing.
I always tell my people, youknow, when you're writing an
invoice, these are theparameters, these are our rates
for these different services.
Make sure that you've got, youknow, documentation and pictures
(36:18):
and things that justify whatwe're going to charge.
And if you've done that, youknow, stand your ground.
And if you haven't done that, Imean there's a somewhere in the
middle between $200 and $4,000,and I don't know what it is,
but there's just nojustification for going from
(36:39):
$4,000 to $200 unless you'redoing something wrong.
That's all I can say.
It just seems very wrong, orsomebody is leveraging you and
you're letting yourself bemanipulated or taken advantage
of.
The tollers deserve to get paid.
As I said, $200 is not.
(37:00):
I don't do a lot for $200,right, I wouldn't do all.
I definitely wouldn't be doinga recovery for $200.
Well, we totally agree withthat and I'm glad you're so open
about talking about on thesubject.
A lot of people shy away fromit, but it's a very good subject
.
You know your true cost, youcalculate it.
You know what it costs to run amile.
(37:22):
It's very, very difficult tostart the truck up and go do a
call for under $200.
Listen, I learned from the kneeof Donnie Cruz, who's a good
friend of mine, canadian boy.
He always gave me grief for notcharging enough.
(37:42):
When I first started a businesshe always said make sure you
know what your costs are, makesure you run your business
properly, make sure you'recharging for your services and
don't feel bad to be the guythat charges.
Feel uh, uh bad to be the guythat charges a little more than
everybody else, but make sureyou can justify it.
If you can't justify it, youknow because you, you, you, you
(38:03):
haven't done your, your work,you're putting yourself, you're
hurting yourself, you're nothurting the client and you're,
and you really make yourself, uh, you know the victim of, of, uh
, your own, uh, you know thevictim of your own, you know
your own circumstances becauseyou know you're entitled to get
paid.
You did the work, get paid forit, but do the work to make sure
(38:26):
that people can trust you right.
They feel like you did what youdid, and these rates are
reasonable.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
You're only hurting yourself when you do that.
You're hurting your company ifyou own it, because as profit
they can go back into benefits,insurance tires.
If you're the employee, you'rehurting yourself too, because if
it's a commission call thenthat's a little bit less than
you're making and also you'rehurting your employer, which
(38:55):
also goes into benefits.
You know things like that toimprove your, your trust.
You're getting equipment.
So being fair and charging afair price just makes your
company a little bit betterbecause it helps the economics
all the way around 100, yeah,and a lot of people don't see
that.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
They don't see what it actually you know, just when
we talk about numbers, of coursewe're just talking around
numbers.
We're not saying that's whatanybody should charge.
But people don't understand.
Someone like yourself and otheroperators are paying a living
wage taking care of theiremployees, running safe trucks
up and down the road,participating in their employees
running safe trucks up and downthe road, participating in
(39:35):
their communities, probablydonating cars to the fire
department and all kinds ofother stuff.
That people don't see behindthe scenes when they hear the
price of an average tow, which,you know, as you say, the price
of just a starting point of anaverage tow has gone up
tremendously.
This is a starting point ofwhat I would tell has gone up
tremendously.
Well, to your point, peoplethink when you come there and
(39:57):
give them a booster or a lockoutor a tire change or you do
these other services, they'repaying for that half an hour or
hour that you spend there, butthey're paying for all the time
before, all the prep time,paying for the piece of
equipment that got you there.
They're paying for all yourtraining, your experience, your
knowledge, all the things thatyou have had to build up.
That didn't just come to you,you know in a, you know in a in
(40:21):
a dream, right?
It all came from a lot of workand effort and investment along
the way.
So all that stuff has to bepart of how you build for, and
you know you're entitled to getpaid for all the costs that are
related to running your business, building your business,
(40:42):
growing your business andsustaining your business.
That's very well said.
It really is.
Well, joey, we definitelyappreciate you being here.
Anything, tell us what's goingon with the association.
Do you all have any meetingscoming up or shows this summer?
Well, we do a trade show everysummer with our provincial
(41:02):
association.
They always do a trade showwhich is like a tow show in
Kitchener, ontario, and it's agreat show.
They do a great show every year.
And then we're doing.
The Canadian Towing Associationhas built a relationship with
(41:26):
the government through thisorganization called ThriveWise
and we're doing.
All the tow trucks in Ontariohave to be do a preliminary
training, certification course,not really training, it's more
of like a proof that you've donetraining, a proof that you have
experience or knowledge.
(41:47):
And we built we built arelationship with this
organization, drivewise andwe're helping to manage that
process Because the governmentwants.
I think we have 7,500 tow truckdrivers in Ontario and they want
them all to have done some sortof certification course to
(42:09):
prove that they've got the basicknowledge of the regulation and
basic knowledge of how a towtruck works.
So we're putting a lot of effortinto that and that's really
probably where most of ourefforts are at the current time.
It's been a lot.
(42:30):
It's been really a lot to takein when the government gets a
hold of you.
They got you by the tail andnow they're figuring ways to tax
us on all this stuff.
So we've got to make sure we'remanaging that.
We're doing a lot of lobbying,making sure that the government
understands that we want to bepart of the process to make sure
(42:52):
that they don't overreach.
We believe they've overreacheda bit already, but a lot of it's
in response to the criminalityand stuff like that that's been
happening with co-operators thatwere taking advantage of the
consumers or each other.
So, yeah, we've got our handsfull.
(43:12):
Lots going on with theassociation Boy, it sounds like
it.
If somebody wants to getinvolved with the association,
how do they get more information?
They can just go to theCanadian Towing Association.
Canadian Towing Association.
We have a website, We've got aFacebook page and you can join
(43:35):
up right on the website.
And if you want to do thecertification courses and stuff
like that, you can do itdirectly through us.
We'll organize it for you.
And there's three vendorsthere's us, there's RecMaster
and then there's anotherorganization called C3CA.
(43:56):
That we're the ones that havethe best deal.
We're the ones that are puttingit together a very aggressive
program that allows the towersto do their own training or
certification.
So I can attest to my driver'sexperience.
So if he does a Wes Wilberingcourse, I can attest to my
(44:16):
driver's experience.
So if he does a Wes Wilberingcourse, I can attest that he's
done that course, he has theseskills and that he's qualified.
Then he just goes online, does agovernment-mandated online
course and then, he can getcertified online course and then
(44:38):
uh, and then you can getcertified.
So, uh, um, I can do that.
The way we built it is that Ican be, I can get myself
certified, or my company canhave certified trainers that can
verify and certify that theseoperators have already.
They already have theirexperience, whether it's
pre-existing experience or sometraining that we have to provide
either ourselves or through athird party.
So we've we created thatrelationship with the government
(45:02):
through the Ministry ofTransportation, so that our
association has the ability toempower each tower, each towing
company, to provide their owncertification, which is really a
big thing, because we want touse everyone's training.
(45:23):
But we also want to be able tocertify experienced operators as
well, without them having to goback to the drawing board,
which is really the big thing,because Ontario is so big like I
said, it's like the size ofTexas.
There's some towers that are1,000 miles away from other
towers and the training is notnecessarily coming to a rural
(45:44):
Ontario, so it makes it morecost-effective for them.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
It sounds like it's giving a little bit of autonomy
back to the tow companies aswell.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Which is really a good thing, especially with your
geographical situation.
That system sounds like itmakes a lot of sense.
Yeah, we want the towers to beable to have that certain amount
of control.
They're going to have to gooutsource other training.
Everybody does it, I do it, weuse your training, we use other
(46:21):
training, we find training,there's training within all
different organizations, but youneed to be able to control some
of your own destiny, and towersare independent by nature and
they're all over the place.
We want to make sure they cando some of it online, some of it
hands-on in their own yards.
(46:43):
That gives them that autonomy,as you mentioned, which I think
is really, really important asan entrepreneur, as a business
owner, absolutely Well, joe, Iappreciate you giving us time
out of your day.
We are going to have you on alittle bit more regular basis.
As we talked about earlier,we're trying to focus on the
(47:04):
news, the daily news, on aweekly basis and definitely we
got a whole lot of news from you, so I can't thank you for
coming on and sharing with usanything you'd like to say in uh
party.
I want to thank you for havingme on.
I really appreciate you guysdoing a great job and keep
(47:24):
getting the message out there.
The industry, thank you.
Thank you, joe, it was really apleasure.
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