December 24, 2024 • 49 mins
Can safety and advocacy transform the towing industry? Join me, DJ Harrington, and my esteemed co-host Wes Wilburn, as we unravel the complexities of pressing issues facing our industry today. We start with a heavy heart, discussing the tragic death of Spencer Keegan and the subsequent lenient sentencing of Peyton Ferris. This poignant discussion underscores the significance of advocacy, exemplified by the Towing and Recovery Association of America's victory in exempting our industry from the FTC's junk fee rule.
Ron Moore, a returning guest offers great insight on training
Our journey continues with a focus on pivotal policy changes impacting our industry. We encourage you to gear up for the TRA Legislative Action Workshop and Hill Day, where the power to influence Congress is in your hands. Stay informed about Paccar's significant recall affecting Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks. We also shed light on the struggles faced by Connecticut towing operators over insurance issues and how diesel truck sales legislation in states like California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey may reshape the industry landscape.
Together, we explore the growing importance of interdisciplinary training in emergency response. From electric vehicles to complex accident scenarios, our recent joint training session in South Carolina highlights the necessity of realistic drills for fire rescue and towing operations. With exciting plans for 2025, including a revamped alternate fuel program and a new podcast schedule, we express heartfelt gratitude to our audience of over 16,000 listeners. Join us in welcoming the new year with optimism and commitment to excellence in towing and recovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast.
Remember this is your podcast topromote safety, education,
positive public relations andnetworking within the
professional and business-mindedtowing and recovery industry.
I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor
(00:27):
, and my other host is WesWilburn, over 40-year towing
industry veteran, the founder ofAmerican Towing Recovery
Institute of Fayetteville, northCarolina.
He has produced and conductedtraining and certification
programs for leading towingcompanies, equipment
(00:48):
distributors, towingassociations, dot, fire
departments, rescue, as well asmilitary installations across
the United States.
Wes has been published over 100times in major towing
publications published over 100times in major towing
(01:08):
publications.
Wes has developed many courses,including the most recent
awareness-level course for allresponders that specialize in
electric vehicles as well ashybrid, natural gas and hydrogen
vehicles.
Wes has provided insight as themain speaker for over 30 years
at more than 900 trainingclasses and has been recognized
(01:31):
as one of America's greatesttowing trainers.
He is well known for hisstraightforward but
down-to-earth teaching style.
No-transcript.
(02:08):
Without further ado, here's mydear friend and a great guy for
our industry, wes Wilder.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
As always, dj, I appreciate your kind words.
You're too generous with them,but I do thank you.
Speaking of thank yous, I wantto thank our listeners.
We're almost 16,500, just shyof 16,500 subscribers on our
podcast.
You know we also count someother numbers nowadays.
We just hit 10,000 positivefeedback on eBay.
(02:38):
It's taken me 20 years to do it, but we have achieved that.
Got 100% positive feedbackrating as well, and I'm out to
do it, but we have achieved that.
Got a 100% positive feedbackrating as well.
When you add all the differentsocial medias, including
Facebook, together you got about15,000 followers that look to
be independent of each other,the best we can judge.
(02:59):
The number is actually higher,but some of them are carryovers
from one social media platformto the next.
It's pretty exciting to be ontop of these numbers and see
them grow every week, and partlywe think the reason why is
people are liking the new formatof the podcast, but we're
trying to keep up with what'sgoing on out there.
You know the downside ofkeeping up with trying to keep
(03:20):
up with all the news in thetowing industry, because that's
what we're trying to keep upwith all the news in the towing
industry because that's whatwe're trying to do here now is,
you see, some good stories andsome bad stories.
Unfortunately, our lead-instory this week is what I
consider to be a sad story, abad story with a bad turn.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
It is a bad story, and what makes it a little bit
sadder is that Peyton Ferrispleaded no contest last month to
a moving violation causing thedeath of, and killing of,
spencer keegan, november of 2023and you might remember, it was,
(03:59):
uh, we had his father on justafter the incident, about a
little bit over one year ago yesand uh.
So barris was driving around 80miles per hour and was on his
phone 13 seconds before thecrash.
According to court records, um,the death part of this is his.
(04:20):
His sentencing is two yearsprobation.
His.
His sentencing is two yearsprobation a year, which is
suspended jail and restitutionof cost.
He will serve, not one day injail.
Um, yes, you've got to pay forcensus.
Um heroes will also have asuspended driver's license for
one year and will have tocomplete 500 years of community
(04:43):
service.
And if he has any movingviolations at all whatsoever I
think any any within a year'stime or two years time then
he'll have to serve his sentence.
But he just has to keep hisnose clean, right for that time
and probation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
He killed somebody in his probation the video of him
that was submitted into evidence.
Evidently that showed us thathe his it showed his
responsibilities.
He was driving fast in the carmaking a recording.
His mother was involved.
It was his mother was involvedand he said it isn't dangerous
(05:21):
because I'm the only body there.
There's nobody in the car withme.
Yeah, showing that he get.
He gave not one.
I ever thought about somebodyoutside the car and I would have
thought that would havefactored into the sentencing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
But and that, and that has been sent.
That has been sent.
Spencer was hit and killed.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I would have thought that his statement of video that
they had played in evidencewere factored into sentencing,
but apparently it didn't.
Very unfortunate situation.
Again, we feel for Kagan'sfamily and friends left behind
many of them.
On December the 12th, theFederal Trade Commission
released its junk fee rule.
(06:01):
So we all may remember we had acouple episodes on the podcast
where we talked about thedifferent things going on on a
federal level with the towingindustry and one of them was
getting kind of bumped in in aFederal Trade Commission action,
I guess I'm not sure whatterminology to use, but the
towing industry got bumped intoan action where they were
(06:21):
looking at junk fees.
To an action where they werelooking at junk fees as a direct
result of traa's efforts we arethrilled to share.
The rule does not include thetowing industry.
They put in writing that it'snot included as part of the part
of the uh announcement.
It's a significant reversal bythe ftc and clearly avoids the
(06:42):
pricing implications of themajority of us businesses,
including the towing recoveryindustry.
In its justification for theretreat, the federal trade
commission notes the broadpushback received from many
sectors, including the towingindustry, and a twice cited
tra's response to the proposedrule so.
(07:04):
So it goes on to talk about theFTC's taking an
industry-neutral approach, orthey were taking that where
anybody could fall under Now sothis is on only live ticketing
events and short-term rentals,because all these junk fees are
going to focus on at this point.
So that's a good example of TRAand what they've done for the
(07:27):
industry and, as we talked abouton the podcast, some of those
long, many year longrelationships they've developed
with different people of powerin Washington DC.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
In addition to that, tra's Legislative Action
Workshop and Hill Day isFebruary 25th and 26th.
It's the industry's onlynational Hill Day.
This is your opportunity tomeet with members of Congress
and make real, substantialchange for the whole community.
This has no prior experiencerequired.
(08:01):
You can go on to TRAonlinecomto register.
There's all kinds of differentworkshops that they're doing.
In that event, too, it's aworthwhile thing to do.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
We've talked about it on past podcast episodes, what
it is basically.
I guess I'm trying to take someof the guests that talked about
it.
I don't remember if it wasRichard Branch or Michael Gowen
or who talked about being there.
Did we have somebody on thepodcast talking about that, dj?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, we did.
We had Bill Johnson at one timetalked about it and we also had
Mike McGovern speak about it.
But Hills Days is a very vitalpart of the industry and those
listeners who can attend HillsDays should definitely go to
TRAA and learn more about it andparticipate.
(08:52):
The more that we have thererepresenting us, the better the
industry is for it.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Absolutely, and they arrange meetings with the
individual congresspeople andsenators and whatnot.
And I hear that one of thethings is you got to be in shape
because there's a whole lot ofwalking involved with the deal.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
A whole lot of walking.
I've gone there and they giveyou the representative's name
but they give you all theliterature and you go in the
group, so there's four or fiveof you together and you leave a
packet of information with thesenator's aide or a spokesperson
and they gather all theinformation up.
(09:34):
We were lucky, we even metMarco Rubio from Florida and it
was very, it was nice, and atthat time they had two or three
senators that came and ate lunchwith us and spoke at lunch.
Rand Paul was one of thespeakers we had at the time.
I went and Rand Paul was thespeaker for lunch and it was
(09:58):
excellent.
So it's very, very vital andthe more that we have there, the
better it is.
And April's right, traa has allthe information on their
website and that's where youshould sign up.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That's a time when you're in the Washington DC
Metro I guess they call it DMVnowadays, but we used to call it
the Washington DC Metro area Atthe end of February, boy, you
can look into some really,really gorgeous weather.
You can also not look into abig snowstorm.
Sometimes that weather, thatend of February, beginning of
March, can just be golden inthat part of the world.
(10:35):
Of course, if you go, you'reright there in the nation's
capitals, so you should plan anextra day or two because there's
all kinds of fun things to do.
Make sure you stay in a good,reputable hotel, which I know
tra is going to have that alllined out yes national highway
transportation safetyadministration before it said
paccar, which is the maker ofpeterbilt kenworth heavy trucks.
(10:59):
We're calling almost a quartermillion trucks.
Have you heard about this dj?
No, I haven't yeah, there's a awhole series of them that have
problems with some of their safewhat they're calling their
safety systems automatic tracktraction control, anti-lock
braking systems, electronicstability control, active active
(11:22):
cruise control, inclusionmigration systems.
It's a big recall, it's like Isaid, with the quarter million
trucks and with 21 to 25 models.
Uh, peter built about the samething.
There's a whole bulletin on it.
We're going to have that on ourwebsite, wwwamtowriorg, and you
(11:48):
can download all theinformation on what's going on
with that.
There's a lot of stuffhappening.
Dj and I maybe should have ledoff with this story.
I don't have it printedanywhere, but I've seen several
social media posts and this hasbeen talked about and going on
for a while up in Connecticut.
I haven't printed anywhere, butI've seen several social media
posts that and this has beentalked about and going on for a
(12:10):
while up in Connecticut.
Matter of fact, when TommyLuciano was on I don't remember
the last time he was on or thetime before he talked about some
of the tailing operators insome of the northeast states are
considering getting out of theheavy tailing business because
so many people don't haveinsurance and insurance
companies don't want to pay etc.
Etc.
And they've been going thetowers.
(12:31):
From what I understand and thiscomes from several different
towing industry sources there'sbeen conversations and
frustration on the towingindustry's part was responding
to heavy truck accidents for thepolice agencies in Connecticut
and this was in June.
(12:51):
I was talking to some of themthat they were talking about if
they couldn't get somesatisfaction.
Several of them were thinkingabout basically getting out of
the heavy towing business and,uh, that was gonna, maybe
there's things were gonna cometo a head in July.
Anyway, they never did.
I saw four different reports onsocial media from four
different Connecticut towingoperators that I know to them
(13:14):
pretty well and announced thaton December 23rd they are no
longer no heavy truck.
Heavy truck towing company inConnecticut is going to respond
to accidents or request forservice from the police.
So I don't know.
And I don't know if they'resaying it's an official strike.
I don't know what it is or not,but I I don't know if that's
(13:38):
the right response.
Maybe it is.
I don't really know about thosethings, but that's happening as
part of the news.
We feel an obligation to reportit.
I guess I'll have to leave acliffhanger there.
We'll come back next week tohear what happens with that.
So that's one of the thingsthat's going on out there.
And there's another one goingon.
Yeah, this is something that'scome from California, where they
control how many trucks can besold that are diesel producing.
(14:04):
They all have to be newtechnology and it was
implemented last year inCalifornia.
And then I guess what severalother states adopted it and are
adopting it January 1st of thisyear.
Who's up to?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
So in 2025, massachusetts, new Jersey, new
York, oregon and WashingtonState are adopting these
standards and there's a couplemore.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
We'll tell you about them in a minute.
Let me tell you a little bitmore about what we're talking
about.
These standards are going tolimit how many diesel trucks can
be sold in california, in thestates she is named.
For every nine diesel trucksyou have to sell an electric
(14:54):
truck.
There are no electric trucksthat will power miller anybody's
rotator, anybody's flatbed, etc.
So there's going to be thishuge squeeze.
There's a video that we foundfrom California.
The man that is beinginterviewed by a local
California newspaper or TVstation or something is Mark
Batts, owner of Tow Industries,which is a Miller Industries
(15:16):
dealer out in California.
He goes into great detailduring this interview about how
this coming year because nobodycan meet the heavy truck
requirements to have an electrictruck to sell, 80 percent less
diesel trucks going to beavailable in California and
there's a thing where, afterthey get 7 500 miles on them,
(15:36):
they can be sold as a new truckto the California market.
So that's what a lot of peopleare going to do.
But the same restrictions arecoming to the states that April
named.
They're coming to a few more inthe next couple of years.
There's only one for what?
26.
Who's that April?
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That's.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Vermont.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And then for 27,.
Who else comes on board?
2027 is Maryland, mexico, rhodeIsland and Colorado.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This is going to affect the new truck market
greatly.
I know a couple of trailers inthese affected states that have
stockpiled inventory.
I've heard of a few dealersdoing that as well.
That's going to really changethings and I encourage people to
go to YouTube.
It's from the CaliforniaInsider On YouTube.
(16:25):
Again, it's a little local TVprogram, I guess would be the
way to describe it.
They're talking to a gentlemanfrom the towing industry, mark
Batts.
Apparently, his family hasowned tow industries there for a
couple of generations.
I give Mr Batts credit.
First of all, we're going toreach out to him and ask him to
come on and talk to him.
But he spoke very eloquentlyabout how the towing industry is
(16:51):
interwoven with firstresponders and how he used a
couple of terms that I hadn'theard before.
He explained to the generalpublic how important it is for
towing operators to be able toget new equipment and of course
he was pretty straightforwardwith the majority of their
business.
The biggest part of theirbusiness is putting a new record
body on a new truck and that isgoing to get eaten into.
(17:15):
So hopefully they can get somerelief in some of the situations
and if you're in one of thosestates, that's happening to you.
Better find out what's going onand get aware of it is my
advice to you.
So that's one of the thingsthat's going on out there.
What else is going on out there, april?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Well, it looks like New England Truck Center is on
the road.
They just bought localcompetitor Matt Brown's Truck
Repair, which looks like it's agood purchase for them because
it was one of their competitors.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, they're on the grow we actually had this news
story pulled back in thesummertime and didn't get to it.
We ran out of time and fellthrough the cracks, apparently
because I'm trying to keep upwith what's going on with
consolidation out there.
And in June 26, there was apress release issued and Stone
Road Partners consolidated withNew England Truck Center.
(18:11):
Stone road partnersconsolidated with new england
truck center.
Um, it's an investment from theunited states and it positions
them in a position to continuegrowing and expanding operations
across new england.
We're going to reach out to newengland truck center and ask
them to come in for an interview.
The good folks, I've known themfor years.
We'll get them to come in andtalk a little bit about what
they're doing as well.
(18:34):
Also, we have Guardian on thegrow, guardian Fleet Services
out of southern Florida.
They acquired Isaac's RecordService out of Texas, the second
terminal excuse me, secondcompany that they bought in
Texas.
This adds 10 terminals to theexisting one that they already
had, giving them 11 terminals inthe state of Texas.
(18:56):
Basically, they've got all theway from Dallas-Fort Worth
market to East Texas border,covered with the different towns
they're servicing.
It appears they acquired thebusiness that was started in
1999 by Keith and Sammy Isaacs,and Keith is staying on as Vice
President of operations in Texasfor that market, so that's
(19:19):
another one that's on the grow,expanding their footprint
greatly.
So that's all the news we havetoday, dj.
I want to thank our listenersfor listening.
We're getting a lot of positivefeedback about this news thing,
so we're going to continue atit If you've got any news please
call it or reach out to us andshare it with us, and we thank
(19:40):
everybody for listening.
Hang around until after thebreak.
We've got a great interviewcoming up with Ron Moore.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
T-R-A-A, the Injured Drivers Fund, and legislation
that makes all of us safer arewhat makes this industry special
.
Ina Towing supports all of thisand more.
When there is a need, gayRochester is always one of the
first to come forward and askhow can I help?
The American Towing andRecovery Institute is honored to
(20:10):
have the support of the INATowing Network.
Together, we all make adifference.
Ina Towing Network SimplifiedSolutions, superior Service.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Welcome back listeners.
You know you've been listeningto the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast with WesWilburn, april Wilburn, dj
Harrington and our special guesttoday.
Make sure you download andlisten.
We're available on Spotify,itunes, pandora, stitcher,
(20:43):
iheartmedia the number one inthe country Amazon or wherever
you get your podcasts.
So, without further ado, wes,I'll turn it back over to you,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Thank you, dj.
I appreciate that.
I do appreciate our listeners.
The group's growing and growingand growing, so we definitely
appreciate you hitting thatsubscribe button and making us a
regular part of your weeklyroutine.
We're focusing and pridingourselves on trying to become
more news focused.
As you heard in the firstsegment, we're still going to do
(21:16):
our interviews and we're gladto have a return guest.
Uh, ron moore has been workingwith us for years with higher
terror cross training, been aguest on the podcast before he's
.
Uh, welcome back.
It's going to become part of aregular segment here.
Ron, welcome back to thepodcast.
Would you mind introducingyourself to those that haven't
(21:38):
heard you before?
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Sure, my name is Ron Moore.
I live in Plano, Texas, whichis a suburb of Dallas.
I'm a retired fire chief fromthis metro.
North Dallas, North Texas,Dallas area.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
North Dallas, North Texas, Dallas area.
Ron and me connected just afterthe turn of the century because
he became aware of the NFPArecommending firefighters and
tellers working together.
I guess, before we jump intothat, Ron, tell us a little bit
about your background, with yourinterest in vehicle education
and whatnot, your training etcetera, if you would please.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
Yes, sir, as if you would please.
Yes, sir, as a training chief.
As I came up through the ranksin the fire service, I was
interested in fire rescuetraining, particularly
extrication.
At that time back in the day itwas just internal combustion
engine vehicles and lately myinterest has turned or twisted
(22:32):
towards electric vehicles andthe autonomous vehicles.
We're seeing that as achallenge to the fire and rescue
services in the United States,in the world, as a matter of
fact.
So electric vehicles EV and AVare right now got my interest.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And that's one of the great things.
You've always been on thecutting edge as technology has
changed with automobiles for acouple decades now.
And um talk about the articlesyou've written over the years if
you would.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
So my writing career was uh uh with fire engineering
or fire house magazine,firehousecom website, and back
in the day I wrote um.
I wrote a monthly article eachmonth, something related.
It was called the university ofextrication, it was something
(23:23):
related to vehicle rescue.
Every month a different aspectof vehicle rescue training.
What was written?
So my articles.
I wound up with 300, and Iforget what it wound up being.
I started writing in the 70sand then it wound up being every
(23:45):
month up until I retired andthen Firehouse Magazine put me
in the Hall of Fame FirehouseHall of Fame.
So that worked out well.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You came up with over 300 articles every month.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Yeah, once a month.
The article, I would write itthe second week, submit it the
third week of the month.
It would be published then thefourth week, so it was for the
next month.
So it was once a month for allthe time since the 70s.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That is incredible, dj.
Isn't that incredible notmissing a month for all those
years?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Well, he's a very well-known guy within the fire
departments.
I wrote an article aftermeeting Ron Moore at one of your
classes, wes.
I wrote an article called howto Keep them Stable Till we Get
them to the Table.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
That was because of.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Ron Moore and I wrote the article because he was
explaining to all of us in theclass how vital it is to get
them from the car, keep themstable till we get them to the
table in the hospital.
And that was a Ron Moore-ism,so you know.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
Yeah, that's pretty good Doc.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, you're a very gifted speaker and I'm honored
to know you, because when I meeta firefighter I always say I'm
dear friends with Ron Moore.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
They go you know Ron Moore, yes, I do.
It's a sad world that you livein.
You hang around with somedangerous company.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, it's no doubt you're well-known and have
educated a lot of people and, atthe turn of the century, tell
us about I don't know how toword it exactly, other than the
NFPA and the cross-training andwe Got Connected.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Talk about that a little bit if you would please.
Yeah, when you mentioned to thefire service in any community
in the united states nationalnfpa national fire protection
association is a big deal.
I run into fire departmentsthat their training budget is
budgeted for nfpa complianttraining.
So if you mention in a coursethat the topics are compliant
(26:10):
with or related to NFPA, itseems to ring a bell across the
country among the fire andrescue community that this is
good stuff.
This is going to help usprogress and get better.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So we worked together and developed a course with
cross-training and I've donethem over what?
Two and a half decades, I guessnow or just about that.
We just did a class together acouple weeks ago in South
Carolina.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, about the scenarios we
chose being realistic,real-world scenarios.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
Yeah, what I found in most fire departments is that
the Class 1 vehicle which isless than 6,000 pound GVW rating
, the Class 1 or maybe the Class2, which might include a dually
or a heavy civilian vehicle, isrelatively easy for the fire
departments to get to, isrelatively easy for the fire
(27:12):
departments to get to.
What they really want is whatwe address in the joint
cross-training fire rescue andtow operators.
They want the large heavyvehicles.
They want to be able to workwith them and around them.
So I found in studying the NFPAstandards that there is a
course, there are standards, acourse there are standards not
(27:37):
NFEA doesn't have a course yet,but there are standards that
address this cross-training.
So I took what was in the legalbeagle verbiage and I modified
it into to be moreunderstandable to the civilian.
So I came up with I thinkthere's 16 or 17 competencies
like operating, operation of awinch, estimating a vehicle
(27:59):
weight, vehicle anatomy typestuff.
I came up with all thesedifferent topics that we address
in cross-training, some thatthe fire rescue service that is
in, some that the fire rescueservice that is jointly in the
class might understand reallywell and might be there.
Lift bags, for example, mightbe something that the tow
(28:36):
operators are very addressed andvery capable of addressing.
So Wes and I created this jointcross training program.
What we did in South Carolinawas unusual because we had tow
operators and we had fire rescueprofessionals.
(28:56):
So in the in the scenarios,what we did was, uh, the
underride, override and then therollover.
In the underride scenario, weuse a class one car let's just
break it down.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I just want to break it down just a little bit more,
if I could.
Great information, I just wantto slow it down.
Three scenarios that we picked.
What we found to be betweenboth of our experiences
interacting with fire and towingoperations is the most common
(29:33):
type of accidents.
That makes sense for workingtogether.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
So I just wanted to make that point real quick.
Sorry about that.
The scenario is set up when theresponders come out and address
it.
The scenario is that bothvehicles were moving.
Let's say that the sedan, thefour-door sedan vehicle, blew a
stop sign or blew a red lightand went, is now pinned under
(30:15):
underneath a large heavy vehicle.
What we did in South Carolinafor the joint training scenario
for the under eye is we used afour-door sedan, put the
driver's door, driver's side ofthe vehicle against the front of
the rear duals, so it wasobstructed, it was not
(30:36):
accessible, but the butt end ofthe car, the class one car, was
sticking out, so we had the towoperators go and talk about uh
on a second round.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
How many dummies do we have in the car?
Speaker 6 (30:48):
so at least you want to simulate that.
It would be a driver seated andbelted you.
You can add more smokehousemannequins or smokehouse dummies
as necessary.
Worst case you could put two inthe front seat and two in the
rear seat.
It would be a four-door sedanwith it has four occupants
inside and a scenario overall onthis underride is that it is a
(31:12):
rescue situation.
So what you want to accomplishin the first scenario is trunk
tunneling, where the crew thefire rescue crew does maybe a
task that they haven't ever donebefore or haven't ever
considered trunk tunneling.
They'll open the trunk lid, takeout the back window, take out
the back speaker deck and workyour way in so that the overall
(31:36):
goal is to create a pathway outthe back end of the Class 1
vehicle.
Then also, depending on how youposition that class one vehicle
underneath the tractor, trailertruck, the passenger side would
be completely empty.
So you can have afterstabilization which is a skill
that responders need tounderstand after stabilization
(31:59):
of the large heavy vehicle, theyactually commit some of their
rescue crews underneath it toopen the front door and remove
it, open the rear door andremove it and open the B pillar
and remove that on the passengerside.
Then what we did, what the nextstep of that scenario is really
easy to do.
(32:19):
Either the fire department canuse a winch equipped vehicle or
the tow operator can use awinch-equipped vehicle, or the
tow operator can use awinch-equipped vehicle with a
pulley and a change of directionto winch the class one, lift
the class eight tractor-trailer,truck trailer, let's say up,
then winch the vehicle out fromunderneath enough that both
(32:41):
sides are now exposed, and thenthe fire rescue people actually
get four doors and and two bpillars to work on to get the
car opened up and of course, allthis moving of the car and
whatnot has worked between thetowing operator and the fire uh
rescue personnel on the scene,and it's all under the
coordination of the two groups,with the uh rescue organization
(33:04):
being the one making the finalcall.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So I just don't want to.
I want to paint the picture ofwhat a controlled circumstances
this is.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
Yes, wes, it's all controlled and also the leader
of one discipline talks directlyand meets directly face toface
with the leader of the seconddiscipline.
So all the grunt work may bedone by people in the trenches,
but the setup work and thecommand and control work is done
(33:34):
at the highest levelcoordinated.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Absolutely, ron.
Good stuff.
I want to talk some more aboutwhat we did there in South
Carolina.
As a matter of fact, we shouldmention that it's available on
some directors' YouTube channels.
I only seen a piece of it.
I need to sit down one eveningand watch the whole thing, but
can you hang around until afterthe break?
We'll talk more about what wedid there a couple weeks ago in
(33:58):
South Carolina and we'll alsotalk a little bit about what's
coming up.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
Yeah, we got override and rollover scenarios to
discuss.
Go for it.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
All right, We'll be listening to this.
Hang around.
Good tease into the nextsection around.
We'll be right back listeners.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
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Speaker 1 (36:27):
You are listening to the American Tone Recovery
Institute podcast with WesWilburn, april Wilburn, dj
Harrington and our renownedguest, ron Moore.
Remember to like, review andshare everywhere.
If you'd like to hear anotherprofessional like a Ron Moore,
by all means the hotline number706-409-5603.
(36:53):
706-409-5603.
And Wes, april and I will doour best to get that
professional on the hotline Now.
Before we took our break, wewere talking about discussing
rollover and override.
So, wes, I'll turn it back overto you and Ron Moore.
(37:15):
Thanks, dj.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, we were talking about the training that me and
Ron Moore just did in Sumner,south Carolina.
We talked about some of thescenarios, or the first scenario
that we did.
Ron, go ahead and talk about,uh, the next scenario, if you
would please in the jointtraining.
Speaker 6 (37:32):
There are a bunch of different setups that the toll
operator, whoever is in chargeof the toll agency and whoever
is in charge of the fire rescueagency can work together to set
up the.
The three that we like are theunderride, the override and then
the rollover.
The override is essentially theclass one car with the
(37:54):
mannequin seated and beltedinside is stopped and is
stationary.
And then the large heavyvehicle, let's say a tractor,
trailer truck, came down a hillor whatever and could not stop
in time and overrode the smallervehicle underneath.
So you want to make sure thatin the positioning that the
(38:16):
front tire, front axle of thelarge heavy vehicle, let's say a
truck that we're using, issomehow causing obstructions to
get the patients out of theclass one vehicle that's
underneath.
Then in the rollover, the thirdscenario that is really very
relevant and I hear all the timethese scenarios are relevant,
(38:38):
that we could have these at anytime and that is a home run for
Wes and I.
That means that what we'resetting up in our mind matches
what is real world in thatcommunity.
So in the rollover all you wantis a large heavy vehicle that
has rolled over and in the setupthat you're thinking they were
(38:58):
passing each other one travelingin one direction, one traveling
in the other direction and thelarge heavy vehicle could not
make the turn or curve and crossover and rolled onto.
You want to obstruct thedriver's side.
Sometimes what has happened inthat scenario is the class one
vehicle, with the occupants withthe mannequins underneath,
(39:22):
scoots out from underneath andit doesn't crush down.
So sometimes the tow operatorsneed to get a machine in there
and pre-crush or pre-damage thevehicle.
But importantly, it's thedriver's side of the large heavy
vehicle that rolls over ontothe driver's side of the class
(39:43):
one car, the civilian vehicle.
Yeah, in that scenario we justwe leave the incident.
What you see is what you get.
The passenger side is typicallyexposed.
So they have to stabilize thelarge heavy rollover vehicle,
get the work done on the classone vehicle to simulate what
they would do in a real worldsituation.
Yeah, normally in thatsituation we'll take the weight
off the vehicle and clear theseat on the class one vehicle to
simulate what they would do ina real world situation?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
yeah, normally in that situation we'll take the
weight off the vehicle and clearthe seat, clear the car out or
remove the heavy vehicle,completely depending on the
situation.
Yeah, that's a real gooddescription of the different
scenarios that we do.
We also focus on uh, when wetry to set these things up, we
focus on getting a class, atruck, a, a school bus,
(40:27):
firefighters to cut up Talkabout the rarity of rescue
personnel getting to do thattype of operations and the have
a large, heavy vehicle.
What NFPA describes?
Speaker 6 (40:38):
as a large heavy vehicle to work on.
So class three, class four, allthe way up to class eight, they
(41:05):
would have the ability to solvethe problem, the problems that
you set up in your class on theclass one vehicle, which is
unfortunately is quite routineanymore, and then, by having the
joint training taken place, thetow operator would describe the
anatomy.
Let's say, we're going to use aschool bus that's rolled over
onto a mannequin, pinnedunderneath, so the the school
bus anatomy, vehicle anatomy, isaddressed and then the fire
(41:29):
department gets to actually workon that bus or that truck,
whatever, whatever you mighthave the large heavy vehicle
that is being provided in therollover, one of the scenarios
that we find that is veryvaluable, not to really and not
talking about cutting up, butit's the mixer, the cement mixer
, the concrete mixer, where youshow them and explain that the
(41:55):
tow operators are aware of thefact that whether it's a front
load or a rear load, cementmixer or concrete truck, it is
the drum is held on essentiallyby gravity.
So in a rollover scenario youcan basically show how the tow
operators would come there, theywould understand the anatomy of
(42:16):
the duels and how the drum isheld on and they would then go
for the lift.
My experience with the firedepartment doing a rollover if
that's the one scenario that youwant to do, the rollover
scenario to lift to get maybesix or nine inches of separation
distance between a rolloverlarge heavy vehicle like a mixer
(42:37):
onto the civilian vehicle mightbe 90 minutes.
For the fire rescue to usewhatever resources they have,
the tow operator can come inwith either an integrated or a
rotator and they can show thatin less than 20 minutes on scene
time I can set the jacks, I canset the boom, I can set the
lines and I can secure thevehicle up to the point where I
(43:01):
can put it in midair if neededbe.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a wonderful example ofsomething that spelling and
recovery and rescue personnelworking together on to make sure
it works out and, like you said, very challenging for the
rescue people by themselves.
So we got some exciting stuffcoming up.
Ron's going to be a regularguest on the podcast.
Exciting stuff coming up.
Ron's going to be a regularguest on the podcast.
(43:24):
We're also working on totallyrevamping the alternate fuel and
electric vehicle program.
We'll have some bigannouncements of that coming up
in just about a week.
April we didn't talk about thisis the Christmas episode.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Yeah, it is a Christmas episode, the last one
of 2024 too.
Yep, it's a Christmas episode,the last one of 2024, too.
Yep, it's a Christmas episode,and our first new, revamped
relaunch will be actual Januarythe 1st.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yep, we're going to start recording every Wednesday.
And what was it?
1 o'clock, 1 o'clock 1 o'clock.
And we're going to turn theseprograms out quicker.
We're're gonna get them towhere they're almost gonna be
live, almost live, within 24hours.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
There'll be a turnaround.
So the easy way to remember itis january the first, at one
o'clock that's right.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
So we're excited about what ron's doing with us
and with us, and what we'vedeveloped together.
And Ron, I tell you, is a realgem and a resource to not only
the fire rescue community, theselling industry as well.
With his information andresearch he's provided over the
years very generously.
So we've got some big thingscoming up, don't we, Ron?
Speaker 6 (44:40):
Yes, yes, we do.
And what was unusual about theSouth Carolina program was the
high level of competencyexisting level of competency of
the participants in the class.
They really knew their work andthey worked well together with
the TOA agency.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Sumter's first class, Sumter Fire Department and
Sumterter record first classacts anyway yeah, they really.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
They really showed that to me as I travel around
the country.
I see the differences and I seesome that you're pushing to try
to get to participate and andit was all we could do to keep
up with the participants in thatclass in south carolina that's
right.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
That's good that you recognize that, ron.
I appreciate that anybodylistening would like to consider
booking a class with me and Roncoming in and working with the
towing operators and thefirefighters.
Give us a call here at theoffice, 910-747-9000.
Or reach out to me, one of themany ways that we reach.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
EJ, would you like to leave us a final note?
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yes To the new year, and the new Christmas,
especially all of our listenersand we have a ton of them, ron,
I want all of our listeners tomark their calendar in 2025 that
every Wednesday at 1 o'clock wewill be doing this podcast and
(46:05):
within 24 hours it'll be ontheir doorstep in whatever
favorite podcast mode they take.
So I wanted to leave, but Icalled Chuck.
Now get ready, wes, when I tellyou this.
I want you guys.
It's called the Flight of 2025.
Now here's how it goes.
(46:27):
Make believe you're on anairplane and for you, ron Moore,
that won't be a problem.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Okay, so get ready.
Good morning and welcome toFlight 2025.
We're prepared for takeoff intothe new year 25.
We're prepared for takeoff intothe new year.
Please make sure your positiveattitude and gratitude are
secured and locked in theupright position.
All self-destructive devicespity, anger, selfishness, pride,
(46:57):
resentment should be turned offat this time.
All negativity, hurt,discouragement should be put
away.
Should you lose your positiveattitude under pressure during
this flight, reach up and pulldown on prayer.
Prayer always willautomatically be activated by
(47:19):
faith.
Once your faith is activated,you can assist the other
passengers who are of littlefaith.
There will be no baggageallowed on this flight.
God, our captain has cleared usfor takeoff.
Destination greatness, Wishingyou a happy new year filled with
(47:42):
new hope, new joy, newblessings.
Stay blessed and welcome to2025.
How's?
Speaker 4 (47:52):
that Very, very good.
Did you write that yourself, DJ?
Speaker 1 (47:57):
No, some guy wrote that years ago and I just
switched it to this year.
That years ago and I justswitched it to this year.
They wrote it years ago and Ithought you know what?
I'll just make it like 2025instead of 2010.
yeah, it was.
It's a good one, and I wastrying to sound like a pilot on
(48:20):
an airplane, because all of us,you know, have gone through it
and, of course, there's going tobe a lot of people traveling
this holiday season.
Now, with the new presidentcoming in, more and more
businesses are getting activatedand thank you so much for
building this to be the numberone podcast in the touring and
(48:41):
recovery industry.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
As of right now, DJ, we're over 16,000 listeners.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, and you guys, because of social media and
because Wes has a lot of dearfriends that have promoted this,
and that's the reason why it'sthe number one listened podcast
in the industry and it's a realgift and I'm proud to be part of
you guys.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
april and wesley, I'm very proud we are very proud to
be with you too, dj.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
This is definitely an honor well, it is an honor and
I appreciate everybody,including our listeners.
Thank you, folks, for listening.
Have a great christmas.
This will drop right atchristmas time and our next one,
our next one, will be right atthe first of the year with a
basically a changing format, asyou're seeing.
Thanks for listening.
(49:34):
Hey, merry christmas, happyholidays you.
Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast.
Remember this is your podcast topromote safety, education,
positive public relations andnetworking within the
professional and business-mindedtowing and recovery industry.
I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor
(00:27):
, and my other host is WesWilburn, over 40-year towing
industry veteran, the founder ofAmerican Towing Recovery
Institute of Fayetteville, northCarolina.
He has produced and conductedtraining and certification
programs for leading towingcompanies, equipment
(00:48):
distributors, towingassociations, dot, fire
departments, rescue, as well asmilitary installations across
the United States.
Wes has been published over 100times in major towing
publications published over 100times in major towing
(01:08):
publications.
Wes has developed many courses,including the most recent
awareness-level course for allresponders that specialize in
electric vehicles as well ashybrid, natural gas and hydrogen
vehicles.
Wes has provided insight as themain speaker for over 30 years
at more than 900 trainingclasses and has been recognized
(01:31):
as one of America's greatesttowing trainers.
He is well known for hisstraightforward but
down-to-earth teaching style.
No-transcript.
(02:08):
Without further ado, here's mydear friend and a great guy for
our industry, wes Wilder.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
As always, dj, I appreciate your kind words.
You're too generous with them,but I do thank you.
Speaking of thank yous, I wantto thank our listeners.
We're almost 16,500, just shyof 16,500 subscribers on our
podcast.
You know we also count someother numbers nowadays.
We just hit 10,000 positivefeedback on eBay.
(02:38):
It's taken me 20 years to do it, but we have achieved that.
Got 100% positive feedbackrating as well, and I'm out to
do it, but we have achieved that.
Got a 100% positive feedbackrating as well.
When you add all the differentsocial medias, including
Facebook, together you got about15,000 followers that look to
be independent of each other,the best we can judge.
(02:59):
The number is actually higher,but some of them are carryovers
from one social media platformto the next.
It's pretty exciting to be ontop of these numbers and see
them grow every week, and partlywe think the reason why is
people are liking the new formatof the podcast, but we're
trying to keep up with what'sgoing on out there.
You know the downside ofkeeping up with trying to keep
(03:20):
up with all the news in thetowing industry, because that's
what we're trying to keep upwith all the news in the towing
industry because that's whatwe're trying to do here now is,
you see, some good stories andsome bad stories.
Unfortunately, our lead-instory this week is what I
consider to be a sad story, abad story with a bad turn.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
It is a bad story, and what makes it a little bit
sadder is that Peyton Ferrispleaded no contest last month to
a moving violation causing thedeath of, and killing of,
spencer keegan, november of 2023and you might remember, it was,
(03:59):
uh, we had his father on justafter the incident, about a
little bit over one year ago yesand uh.
So barris was driving around 80miles per hour and was on his
phone 13 seconds before thecrash.
According to court records, um,the death part of this is his.
(04:20):
His sentencing is two yearsprobation.
His.
His sentencing is two yearsprobation a year, which is
suspended jail and restitutionof cost.
He will serve, not one day injail.
Um, yes, you've got to pay forcensus.
Um heroes will also have asuspended driver's license for
one year and will have tocomplete 500 years of community
(04:43):
service.
And if he has any movingviolations at all whatsoever I
think any any within a year'stime or two years time then
he'll have to serve his sentence.
But he just has to keep hisnose clean, right for that time
and probation.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
He killed somebody in his probation the video of him
that was submitted into evidence.
Evidently that showed us thathe his it showed his
responsibilities.
He was driving fast in the carmaking a recording.
His mother was involved.
It was his mother was involvedand he said it isn't dangerous
(05:21):
because I'm the only body there.
There's nobody in the car withme.
Yeah, showing that he get.
He gave not one.
I ever thought about somebodyoutside the car and I would have
thought that would havefactored into the sentencing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
But and that, and that has been sent.
That has been sent.
Spencer was hit and killed.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I would have thought that his statement of video that
they had played in evidencewere factored into sentencing,
but apparently it didn't.
Very unfortunate situation.
Again, we feel for Kagan'sfamily and friends left behind
many of them.
On December the 12th, theFederal Trade Commission
released its junk fee rule.
(06:01):
So we all may remember we had acouple episodes on the podcast
where we talked about thedifferent things going on on a
federal level with the towingindustry and one of them was
getting kind of bumped in in aFederal Trade Commission action,
I guess I'm not sure whatterminology to use, but the
towing industry got bumped intoan action where they were
(06:21):
looking at junk fees.
To an action where they werelooking at junk fees as a direct
result of traa's efforts we arethrilled to share.
The rule does not include thetowing industry.
They put in writing that it'snot included as part of the part
of the uh announcement.
It's a significant reversal bythe ftc and clearly avoids the
(06:42):
pricing implications of themajority of us businesses,
including the towing recoveryindustry.
In its justification for theretreat, the federal trade
commission notes the broadpushback received from many
sectors, including the towingindustry, and a twice cited
tra's response to the proposedrule so.
(07:04):
So it goes on to talk about theFTC's taking an
industry-neutral approach, orthey were taking that where
anybody could fall under Now sothis is on only live ticketing
events and short-term rentals,because all these junk fees are
going to focus on at this point.
So that's a good example of TRAand what they've done for the
(07:27):
industry and, as we talked abouton the podcast, some of those
long, many year longrelationships they've developed
with different people of powerin Washington DC.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
In addition to that, tra's Legislative Action
Workshop and Hill Day isFebruary 25th and 26th.
It's the industry's onlynational Hill Day.
This is your opportunity tomeet with members of Congress
and make real, substantialchange for the whole community.
This has no prior experiencerequired.
(08:01):
You can go on to TRAonlinecomto register.
There's all kinds of differentworkshops that they're doing.
In that event, too, it's aworthwhile thing to do.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
We've talked about it on past podcast episodes, what
it is basically.
I guess I'm trying to take someof the guests that talked about
it.
I don't remember if it wasRichard Branch or Michael Gowen
or who talked about being there.
Did we have somebody on thepodcast talking about that, dj?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, we did.
We had Bill Johnson at one timetalked about it and we also had
Mike McGovern speak about it.
But Hills Days is a very vitalpart of the industry and those
listeners who can attend HillsDays should definitely go to
TRAA and learn more about it andparticipate.
(08:52):
The more that we have thererepresenting us, the better the
industry is for it.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Absolutely, and they arrange meetings with the
individual congresspeople andsenators and whatnot.
And I hear that one of thethings is you got to be in shape
because there's a whole lot ofwalking involved with the deal.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
A whole lot of walking.
I've gone there and they giveyou the representative's name
but they give you all theliterature and you go in the
group, so there's four or fiveof you together and you leave a
packet of information with thesenator's aide or a spokesperson
and they gather all theinformation up.
(09:34):
We were lucky, we even metMarco Rubio from Florida and it
was very, it was nice, and atthat time they had two or three
senators that came and ate lunchwith us and spoke at lunch.
Rand Paul was one of thespeakers we had at the time.
I went and Rand Paul was thespeaker for lunch and it was
(09:58):
excellent.
So it's very, very vital andthe more that we have there, the
better it is.
And April's right, traa has allthe information on their
website and that's where youshould sign up.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
That's a time when you're in the Washington DC
Metro I guess they call it DMVnowadays, but we used to call it
the Washington DC Metro area Atthe end of February, boy, you
can look into some really,really gorgeous weather.
You can also not look into abig snowstorm.
Sometimes that weather, thatend of February, beginning of
March, can just be golden inthat part of the world.
(10:35):
Of course, if you go, you'reright there in the nation's
capitals, so you should plan anextra day or two because there's
all kinds of fun things to do.
Make sure you stay in a good,reputable hotel, which I know
tra is going to have that alllined out yes national highway
transportation safetyadministration before it said
paccar, which is the maker ofpeterbilt kenworth heavy trucks.
(10:59):
We're calling almost a quartermillion trucks.
Have you heard about this dj?
No, I haven't yeah, there's a awhole series of them that have
problems with some of their safewhat they're calling their
safety systems automatic tracktraction control, anti-lock
braking systems, electronicstability control, active active
(11:22):
cruise control, inclusionmigration systems.
It's a big recall, it's like Isaid, with the quarter million
trucks and with 21 to 25 models.
Uh, peter built about the samething.
There's a whole bulletin on it.
We're going to have that on ourwebsite, wwwamtowriorg, and you
(11:48):
can download all theinformation on what's going on
with that.
There's a lot of stuffhappening.
Dj and I maybe should have ledoff with this story.
I don't have it printedanywhere, but I've seen several
social media posts and this hasbeen talked about and going on
for a while up in Connecticut.
I haven't printed anywhere, butI've seen several social media
posts that and this has beentalked about and going on for a
(12:10):
while up in Connecticut.
Matter of fact, when TommyLuciano was on I don't remember
the last time he was on or thetime before he talked about some
of the tailing operators insome of the northeast states are
considering getting out of theheavy tailing business because
so many people don't haveinsurance and insurance
companies don't want to pay etc.
Etc.
And they've been going thetowers.
(12:31):
From what I understand and thiscomes from several different
towing industry sources there'sbeen conversations and
frustration on the towingindustry's part was responding
to heavy truck accidents for thepolice agencies in Connecticut
and this was in June.
(12:51):
I was talking to some of themthat they were talking about if
they couldn't get somesatisfaction.
Several of them were thinkingabout basically getting out of
the heavy towing business and,uh, that was gonna, maybe
there's things were gonna cometo a head in July.
Anyway, they never did.
I saw four different reports onsocial media from four
different Connecticut towingoperators that I know to them
(13:14):
pretty well and announced thaton December 23rd they are no
longer no heavy truck.
Heavy truck towing company inConnecticut is going to respond
to accidents or request forservice from the police.
So I don't know.
And I don't know if they'resaying it's an official strike.
I don't know what it is or not,but I I don't know if that's
(13:38):
the right response.
Maybe it is.
I don't really know about thosethings, but that's happening as
part of the news.
We feel an obligation to reportit.
I guess I'll have to leave acliffhanger there.
We'll come back next week tohear what happens with that.
So that's one of the thingsthat's going on out there.
And there's another one goingon.
Yeah, this is something that'scome from California, where they
control how many trucks can besold that are diesel producing.
(14:04):
They all have to be newtechnology and it was
implemented last year inCalifornia.
And then I guess what severalother states adopted it and are
adopting it January 1st of thisyear.
Who's up to?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
So in 2025, massachusetts, new Jersey, new
York, oregon and WashingtonState are adopting these
standards and there's a couplemore.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
We'll tell you about them in a minute.
Let me tell you a little bitmore about what we're talking
about.
These standards are going tolimit how many diesel trucks can
be sold in california, in thestates she is named.
For every nine diesel trucksyou have to sell an electric
(14:54):
truck.
There are no electric trucksthat will power miller anybody's
rotator, anybody's flatbed, etc.
So there's going to be thishuge squeeze.
There's a video that we foundfrom California.
The man that is beinginterviewed by a local
California newspaper or TVstation or something is Mark
Batts, owner of Tow Industries,which is a Miller Industries
(15:16):
dealer out in California.
He goes into great detailduring this interview about how
this coming year because nobodycan meet the heavy truck
requirements to have an electrictruck to sell, 80 percent less
diesel trucks going to beavailable in California and
there's a thing where, afterthey get 7 500 miles on them,
(15:36):
they can be sold as a new truckto the California market.
So that's what a lot of peopleare going to do.
But the same restrictions arecoming to the states that April
named.
They're coming to a few more inthe next couple of years.
There's only one for what?
26.
Who's that April?
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That's.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Vermont.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And then for 27,.
Who else comes on board?
2027 is Maryland, mexico, rhodeIsland and Colorado.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This is going to affect the new truck market
greatly.
I know a couple of trailers inthese affected states that have
stockpiled inventory.
I've heard of a few dealersdoing that as well.
That's going to really changethings and I encourage people to
go to YouTube.
It's from the CaliforniaInsider On YouTube.
(16:25):
Again, it's a little local TVprogram, I guess would be the
way to describe it.
They're talking to a gentlemanfrom the towing industry, mark
Batts.
Apparently, his family hasowned tow industries there for a
couple of generations.
I give Mr Batts credit.
First of all, we're going toreach out to him and ask him to
come on and talk to him.
But he spoke very eloquentlyabout how the towing industry is
(16:51):
interwoven with firstresponders and how he used a
couple of terms that I hadn'theard before.
He explained to the generalpublic how important it is for
towing operators to be able toget new equipment and of course
he was pretty straightforwardwith the majority of their
business.
The biggest part of theirbusiness is putting a new record
body on a new truck and that isgoing to get eaten into.
(17:15):
So hopefully they can get somerelief in some of the situations
and if you're in one of thosestates, that's happening to you.
Better find out what's going onand get aware of it is my
advice to you.
So that's one of the thingsthat's going on out there.
What else is going on out there, april?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Well, it looks like New England Truck Center is on
the road.
They just bought localcompetitor Matt Brown's Truck
Repair, which looks like it's agood purchase for them because
it was one of their competitors.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, they're on the grow we actually had this news
story pulled back in thesummertime and didn't get to it.
We ran out of time and fellthrough the cracks, apparently
because I'm trying to keep upwith what's going on with
consolidation out there.
And in June 26, there was apress release issued and Stone
Road Partners consolidated withNew England Truck Center.
(18:11):
Stone road partnersconsolidated with new england
truck center.
Um, it's an investment from theunited states and it positions
them in a position to continuegrowing and expanding operations
across new england.
We're going to reach out to newengland truck center and ask
them to come in for an interview.
The good folks, I've known themfor years.
We'll get them to come in andtalk a little bit about what
they're doing as well.
(18:34):
Also, we have Guardian on thegrow, guardian Fleet Services
out of southern Florida.
They acquired Isaac's RecordService out of Texas, the second
terminal excuse me, secondcompany that they bought in
Texas.
This adds 10 terminals to theexisting one that they already
had, giving them 11 terminals inthe state of Texas.
(18:56):
Basically, they've got all theway from Dallas-Fort Worth
market to East Texas border,covered with the different towns
they're servicing.
It appears they acquired thebusiness that was started in
1999 by Keith and Sammy Isaacs,and Keith is staying on as Vice
President of operations in Texasfor that market, so that's
(19:19):
another one that's on the grow,expanding their footprint
greatly.
So that's all the news we havetoday, dj.
I want to thank our listenersfor listening.
We're getting a lot of positivefeedback about this news thing,
so we're going to continue atit If you've got any news please
call it or reach out to us andshare it with us, and we thank
(19:40):
everybody for listening.
Hang around until after thebreak.
We've got a great interviewcoming up with Ron Moore.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 5 (19:49):
T-R-A-A, the Injured Drivers Fund, and legislation
that makes all of us safer arewhat makes this industry special
.
Ina Towing supports all of thisand more.
When there is a need, gayRochester is always one of the
first to come forward and askhow can I help?
The American Towing andRecovery Institute is honored to
(20:10):
have the support of the INATowing Network.
Together, we all make adifference.
Ina Towing Network SimplifiedSolutions, superior Service.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Welcome back listeners.
You know you've been listeningto the American Towing Recovery
Institute podcast with WesWilburn, april Wilburn, dj
Harrington and our special guesttoday.
Make sure you download andlisten.
We're available on Spotify,itunes, pandora, stitcher,
(20:43):
iheartmedia the number one inthe country Amazon or wherever
you get your podcasts.
So, without further ado, wes,I'll turn it back over to you,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Thank you, dj.
I appreciate that.
I do appreciate our listeners.
The group's growing and growingand growing, so we definitely
appreciate you hitting thatsubscribe button and making us a
regular part of your weeklyroutine.
We're focusing and pridingourselves on trying to become
more news focused.
As you heard in the firstsegment, we're still going to do
(21:16):
our interviews and we're gladto have a return guest.
Uh, ron moore has been workingwith us for years with higher
terror cross training, been aguest on the podcast before he's
.
Uh, welcome back.
It's going to become part of aregular segment here.
Ron, welcome back to thepodcast.
Would you mind introducingyourself to those that haven't
(21:38):
heard you before?
Speaker 6 (21:39):
Sure, my name is Ron Moore.
I live in Plano, Texas, whichis a suburb of Dallas.
I'm a retired fire chief fromthis metro.
North Dallas, North Texas,Dallas area.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
North Dallas, North Texas, Dallas area.
Ron and me connected just afterthe turn of the century because
he became aware of the NFPArecommending firefighters and
tellers working together.
I guess, before we jump intothat, Ron, tell us a little bit
about your background, with yourinterest in vehicle education
and whatnot, your training etcetera, if you would please.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
Yes, sir, as if you would please.
Yes, sir, as a training chief.
As I came up through the ranksin the fire service, I was
interested in fire rescuetraining, particularly
extrication.
At that time back in the day itwas just internal combustion
engine vehicles and lately myinterest has turned or twisted
(22:32):
towards electric vehicles andthe autonomous vehicles.
We're seeing that as achallenge to the fire and rescue
services in the United States,in the world, as a matter of
fact.
So electric vehicles EV and AVare right now got my interest.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And that's one of the great things.
You've always been on thecutting edge as technology has
changed with automobiles for acouple decades now.
And um talk about the articlesyou've written over the years if
you would.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
So my writing career was uh uh with fire engineering
or fire house magazine,firehousecom website, and back
in the day I wrote um.
I wrote a monthly article eachmonth, something related.
It was called the university ofextrication, it was something
(23:23):
related to vehicle rescue.
Every month a different aspectof vehicle rescue training.
What was written?
So my articles.
I wound up with 300, and Iforget what it wound up being.
I started writing in the 70sand then it wound up being every
(23:45):
month up until I retired andthen Firehouse Magazine put me
in the Hall of Fame FirehouseHall of Fame.
So that worked out well.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You came up with over 300 articles every month.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Yeah, once a month.
The article, I would write itthe second week, submit it the
third week of the month.
It would be published then thefourth week, so it was for the
next month.
So it was once a month for allthe time since the 70s.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That is incredible, dj.
Isn't that incredible notmissing a month for all those
years?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Well, he's a very well-known guy within the fire
departments.
I wrote an article aftermeeting Ron Moore at one of your
classes, wes.
I wrote an article called howto Keep them Stable Till we Get
them to the Table.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
That was because of.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Ron Moore and I wrote the article because he was
explaining to all of us in theclass how vital it is to get
them from the car, keep themstable till we get them to the
table in the hospital.
And that was a Ron Moore-ism,so you know.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
Yeah, that's pretty good Doc.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Well, you're a very gifted speaker and I'm honored
to know you, because when I meeta firefighter I always say I'm
dear friends with Ron Moore.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
They go you know Ron Moore, yes, I do.
It's a sad world that you livein.
You hang around with somedangerous company.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, it's no doubt you're well-known and have
educated a lot of people and, atthe turn of the century, tell
us about I don't know how toword it exactly, other than the
NFPA and the cross-training andwe Got Connected.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Talk about that a little bit if you would please.
Yeah, when you mentioned to thefire service in any community
in the united states nationalnfpa national fire protection
association is a big deal.
I run into fire departmentsthat their training budget is
budgeted for nfpa complianttraining.
So if you mention in a coursethat the topics are compliant
(26:10):
with or related to NFPA, itseems to ring a bell across the
country among the fire andrescue community that this is
good stuff.
This is going to help usprogress and get better.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So we worked together and developed a course with
cross-training and I've donethem over what?
Two and a half decades, I guessnow or just about that.
We just did a class together acouple weeks ago in South
Carolina.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat, about the scenarios we
chose being realistic,real-world scenarios.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
Yeah, what I found in most fire departments is that
the Class 1 vehicle which isless than 6,000 pound GVW rating
, the Class 1 or maybe the Class2, which might include a dually
or a heavy civilian vehicle, isrelatively easy for the fire
departments to get to, isrelatively easy for the fire
(27:12):
departments to get to.
What they really want is whatwe address in the joint
cross-training fire rescue andtow operators.
They want the large heavyvehicles.
They want to be able to workwith them and around them.
So I found in studying the NFPAstandards that there is a
course, there are standards, acourse there are standards not
(27:37):
NFEA doesn't have a course yet,but there are standards that
address this cross-training.
So I took what was in the legalbeagle verbiage and I modified
it into to be moreunderstandable to the civilian.
So I came up with I thinkthere's 16 or 17 competencies
like operating, operation of awinch, estimating a vehicle
(27:59):
weight, vehicle anatomy typestuff.
I came up with all thesedifferent topics that we address
in cross-training, some thatthe fire rescue service that is
in, some that the fire rescueservice that is jointly in the
class might understand reallywell and might be there.
Lift bags, for example, mightbe something that the tow
(28:36):
operators are very addressed andvery capable of addressing.
So Wes and I created this jointcross training program.
What we did in South Carolinawas unusual because we had tow
operators and we had fire rescueprofessionals.
(28:56):
So in the in the scenarios,what we did was, uh, the
underride, override and then therollover.
In the underride scenario, weuse a class one car let's just
break it down.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I just want to break it down just a little bit more,
if I could.
Great information, I just wantto slow it down.
Three scenarios that we picked.
What we found to be betweenboth of our experiences
interacting with fire and towingoperations is the most common
(29:33):
type of accidents.
That makes sense for workingtogether.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
So I just wanted to make that point real quick.
Sorry about that.
The scenario is set up when theresponders come out and address
it.
The scenario is that bothvehicles were moving.
Let's say that the sedan, thefour-door sedan vehicle, blew a
stop sign or blew a red lightand went, is now pinned under
(30:15):
underneath a large heavy vehicle.
What we did in South Carolinafor the joint training scenario
for the under eye is we used afour-door sedan, put the
driver's door, driver's side ofthe vehicle against the front of
the rear duals, so it wasobstructed, it was not
(30:36):
accessible, but the butt end ofthe car, the class one car, was
sticking out, so we had the towoperators go and talk about uh
on a second round.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
How many dummies do we have in the car?
Speaker 6 (30:48):
so at least you want to simulate that.
It would be a driver seated andbelted you.
You can add more smokehousemannequins or smokehouse dummies
as necessary.
Worst case you could put two inthe front seat and two in the
rear seat.
It would be a four-door sedanwith it has four occupants
inside and a scenario overall onthis underride is that it is a
(31:12):
rescue situation.
So what you want to accomplishin the first scenario is trunk
tunneling, where the crew thefire rescue crew does maybe a
task that they haven't ever donebefore or haven't ever
considered trunk tunneling.
They'll open the trunk lid, takeout the back window, take out
the back speaker deck and workyour way in so that the overall
(31:36):
goal is to create a pathway outthe back end of the Class 1
vehicle.
Then also, depending on how youposition that class one vehicle
underneath the tractor, trailertruck, the passenger side would
be completely empty.
So you can have afterstabilization which is a skill
that responders need tounderstand after stabilization
(31:59):
of the large heavy vehicle, theyactually commit some of their
rescue crews underneath it toopen the front door and remove
it, open the rear door andremove it and open the B pillar
and remove that on the passengerside.
Then what we did, what the nextstep of that scenario is really
easy to do.
(32:19):
Either the fire department canuse a winch equipped vehicle or
the tow operator can use awinch-equipped vehicle, or the
tow operator can use awinch-equipped vehicle with a
pulley and a change of directionto winch the class one, lift
the class eight tractor-trailer,truck trailer, let's say up,
then winch the vehicle out fromunderneath enough that both
(32:41):
sides are now exposed, and thenthe fire rescue people actually
get four doors and and two bpillars to work on to get the
car opened up and of course, allthis moving of the car and
whatnot has worked between thetowing operator and the fire uh
rescue personnel on the scene,and it's all under the
coordination of the two groups,with the uh rescue organization
(33:04):
being the one making the finalcall.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So I just don't want to.
I want to paint the picture ofwhat a controlled circumstances
this is.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
Yes, wes, it's all controlled and also the leader
of one discipline talks directlyand meets directly face toface
with the leader of the seconddiscipline.
So all the grunt work may bedone by people in the trenches,
but the setup work and thecommand and control work is done
(33:34):
at the highest levelcoordinated.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Absolutely, ron.
Good stuff.
I want to talk some more aboutwhat we did there in South
Carolina.
As a matter of fact, we shouldmention that it's available on
some directors' YouTube channels.
I only seen a piece of it.
I need to sit down one eveningand watch the whole thing, but
can you hang around until afterthe break?
We'll talk more about what wedid there a couple weeks ago in
(33:58):
South Carolina and we'll alsotalk a little bit about what's
coming up.
Speaker 6 (34:01):
Yeah, we got override and rollover scenarios to
discuss.
Go for it.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
All right, We'll be listening to this.
Hang around.
Good tease into the nextsection around.
We'll be right back listeners.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
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Speaker 1 (36:27):
You are listening to the American Tone Recovery
Institute podcast with WesWilburn, april Wilburn, dj
Harrington and our renownedguest, ron Moore.
Remember to like, review andshare everywhere.
If you'd like to hear anotherprofessional like a Ron Moore,
by all means the hotline number706-409-5603.
(36:53):
706-409-5603.
And Wes, april and I will doour best to get that
professional on the hotline Now.
Before we took our break, wewere talking about discussing
rollover and override.
So, wes, I'll turn it back overto you and Ron Moore.
(37:15):
Thanks, dj.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, we were talking about the training that me and
Ron Moore just did in Sumner,south Carolina.
We talked about some of thescenarios, or the first scenario
that we did.
Ron, go ahead and talk about,uh, the next scenario, if you
would please in the jointtraining.
Speaker 6 (37:32):
There are a bunch of different setups that the toll
operator, whoever is in chargeof the toll agency and whoever
is in charge of the fire rescueagency can work together to set
up the.
The three that we like are theunderride, the override and then
the rollover.
The override is essentially theclass one car with the
(37:54):
mannequin seated and beltedinside is stopped and is
stationary.
And then the large heavyvehicle, let's say a tractor,
trailer truck, came down a hillor whatever and could not stop
in time and overrode the smallervehicle underneath.
So you want to make sure thatin the positioning that the
(38:16):
front tire, front axle of thelarge heavy vehicle, let's say a
truck that we're using, issomehow causing obstructions to
get the patients out of theclass one vehicle that's
underneath.
Then in the rollover, the thirdscenario that is really very
relevant and I hear all the timethese scenarios are relevant,
(38:38):
that we could have these at anytime and that is a home run for
Wes and I.
That means that what we'resetting up in our mind matches
what is real world in thatcommunity.
So in the rollover all you wantis a large heavy vehicle that
has rolled over and in the setupthat you're thinking they were
(38:58):
passing each other one travelingin one direction, one traveling
in the other direction and thelarge heavy vehicle could not
make the turn or curve and crossover and rolled onto.
You want to obstruct thedriver's side.
Sometimes what has happened inthat scenario is the class one
vehicle, with the occupants withthe mannequins underneath,
(39:22):
scoots out from underneath andit doesn't crush down.
So sometimes the tow operatorsneed to get a machine in there
and pre-crush or pre-damage thevehicle.
But importantly, it's thedriver's side of the large heavy
vehicle that rolls over ontothe driver's side of the class
(39:43):
one car, the civilian vehicle.
Yeah, in that scenario we justwe leave the incident.
What you see is what you get.
The passenger side is typicallyexposed.
So they have to stabilize thelarge heavy rollover vehicle,
get the work done on the classone vehicle to simulate what
they would do in a real worldsituation.
Yeah, normally in thatsituation we'll take the weight
off the vehicle and clear theseat on the class one vehicle to
simulate what they would do ina real world situation?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
yeah, normally in that situation we'll take the
weight off the vehicle and clearthe seat, clear the car out or
remove the heavy vehicle,completely depending on the
situation.
Yeah, that's a real gooddescription of the different
scenarios that we do.
We also focus on uh, when wetry to set these things up, we
focus on getting a class, atruck, a, a school bus,
(40:27):
firefighters to cut up Talkabout the rarity of rescue
personnel getting to do thattype of operations and the have
a large, heavy vehicle.
What NFPA describes?
Speaker 6 (40:38):
as a large heavy vehicle to work on.
So class three, class four, allthe way up to class eight, they
(41:05):
would have the ability to solvethe problem, the problems that
you set up in your class on theclass one vehicle, which is
unfortunately is quite routineanymore, and then, by having the
joint training taken place, thetow operator would describe the
anatomy.
Let's say, we're going to use aschool bus that's rolled over
onto a mannequin, pinnedunderneath, so the the school
bus anatomy, vehicle anatomy, isaddressed and then the fire
(41:29):
department gets to actually workon that bus or that truck,
whatever, whatever you mighthave the large heavy vehicle
that is being provided in therollover, one of the scenarios
that we find that is veryvaluable, not to really and not
talking about cutting up, butit's the mixer, the cement mixer
, the concrete mixer, where youshow them and explain that the
(41:55):
tow operators are aware of thefact that whether it's a front
load or a rear load, cementmixer or concrete truck, it is
the drum is held on essentiallyby gravity.
So in a rollover scenario youcan basically show how the tow
operators would come there, theywould understand the anatomy of
(42:16):
the duels and how the drum isheld on and they would then go
for the lift.
My experience with the firedepartment doing a rollover if
that's the one scenario that youwant to do, the rollover
scenario to lift to get maybesix or nine inches of separation
distance between a rolloverlarge heavy vehicle like a mixer
(42:37):
onto the civilian vehicle mightbe 90 minutes.
For the fire rescue to usewhatever resources they have,
the tow operator can come inwith either an integrated or a
rotator and they can show thatin less than 20 minutes on scene
time I can set the jacks, I canset the boom, I can set the
lines and I can secure thevehicle up to the point where I
(43:01):
can put it in midair if neededbe.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a wonderful example ofsomething that spelling and
recovery and rescue personnelworking together on to make sure
it works out and, like you said, very challenging for the
rescue people by themselves.
So we got some exciting stuffcoming up.
Ron's going to be a regularguest on the podcast.
Exciting stuff coming up.
Ron's going to be a regularguest on the podcast.
(43:24):
We're also working on totallyrevamping the alternate fuel and
electric vehicle program.
We'll have some bigannouncements of that coming up
in just about a week.
April we didn't talk about thisis the Christmas episode.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Yeah, it is a Christmas episode, the last one
of 2024 too.
Yep, it's a Christmas episode,the last one of 2024, too.
Yep, it's a Christmas episode,and our first new, revamped
relaunch will be actual Januarythe 1st.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yep, we're going to start recording every Wednesday.
And what was it?
1 o'clock, 1 o'clock 1 o'clock.
And we're going to turn theseprograms out quicker.
We're're gonna get them towhere they're almost gonna be
live, almost live, within 24hours.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
There'll be a turnaround.
So the easy way to remember itis january the first, at one
o'clock that's right.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
So we're excited about what ron's doing with us
and with us, and what we'vedeveloped together.
And Ron, I tell you, is a realgem and a resource to not only
the fire rescue community, theselling industry as well.
With his information andresearch he's provided over the
years very generously.
So we've got some big thingscoming up, don't we, Ron?
Speaker 6 (44:40):
Yes, yes, we do.
And what was unusual about theSouth Carolina program was the
high level of competencyexisting level of competency of
the participants in the class.
They really knew their work andthey worked well together with
the TOA agency.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Sumter's first class, Sumter Fire Department and
Sumterter record first classacts anyway yeah, they really.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
They really showed that to me as I travel around
the country.
I see the differences and I seesome that you're pushing to try
to get to participate and andit was all we could do to keep
up with the participants in thatclass in south carolina that's
right.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
That's good that you recognize that, ron.
I appreciate that anybodylistening would like to consider
booking a class with me and Roncoming in and working with the
towing operators and thefirefighters.
Give us a call here at theoffice, 910-747-9000.
Or reach out to me, one of themany ways that we reach.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
EJ, would you like to leave us a final note?
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yes To the new year, and the new Christmas,
especially all of our listenersand we have a ton of them, ron,
I want all of our listeners tomark their calendar in 2025 that
every Wednesday at 1 o'clock wewill be doing this podcast and
(46:05):
within 24 hours it'll be ontheir doorstep in whatever
favorite podcast mode they take.
So I wanted to leave, but Icalled Chuck.
Now get ready, wes, when I tellyou this.
I want you guys.
It's called the Flight of 2025.
Now here's how it goes.
(46:27):
Make believe you're on anairplane and for you, ron Moore,
that won't be a problem.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Okay, so get ready.
Good morning and welcome toFlight 2025.
We're prepared for takeoff intothe new year 25.
We're prepared for takeoff intothe new year.
Please make sure your positiveattitude and gratitude are
secured and locked in theupright position.
All self-destructive devicespity, anger, selfishness, pride,
(46:57):
resentment should be turned offat this time.
All negativity, hurt,discouragement should be put
away.
Should you lose your positiveattitude under pressure during
this flight, reach up and pulldown on prayer.
Prayer always willautomatically be activated by
(47:19):
faith.
Once your faith is activated,you can assist the other
passengers who are of littlefaith.
There will be no baggageallowed on this flight.
God, our captain has cleared usfor takeoff.
Destination greatness, Wishingyou a happy new year filled with
(47:42):
new hope, new joy, newblessings.
Stay blessed and welcome to2025.
How's?
Speaker 4 (47:52):
that Very, very good.
Did you write that yourself, DJ?
Speaker 1 (47:57):
No, some guy wrote that years ago and I just
switched it to this year.
That years ago and I justswitched it to this year.
They wrote it years ago and Ithought you know what?
I'll just make it like 2025instead of 2010.
yeah, it was.
It's a good one, and I wastrying to sound like a pilot on
(48:20):
an airplane, because all of us,you know, have gone through it
and, of course, there's going tobe a lot of people traveling
this holiday season.
Now, with the new presidentcoming in, more and more
businesses are getting activatedand thank you so much for
building this to be the numberone podcast in the touring and
(48:41):
recovery industry.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
As of right now, DJ, we're over 16,000 listeners.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, and you guys, because of social media and
because Wes has a lot of dearfriends that have promoted this,
and that's the reason why it'sthe number one listened podcast
in the industry and it's a realgift and I'm proud to be part of
you guys.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
april and wesley, I'm very proud we are very proud to
be with you too, dj.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
This is definitely an honor well, it is an honor and
I appreciate everybody,including our listeners.
Thank you, folks, for listening.
Have a great christmas.
This will drop right atchristmas time and our next one,
our next one, will be right atthe first of the year with a
basically a changing format, asyou're seeing.
Thanks for listening.
(49:34):
Hey, merry christmas, happyholidays you.
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