November 6, 2023 • 38 mins
If you've ever felt the tension that arises when your beliefs and actions don't align perfectly, you're not alone. Cognitive dissonance, especially in the realm of relationships and marriage, can be a tricky challenge to overcome. We're going to expose this issue, using a relatable example of financial value discrepancies within a relationship. We've learned from our own experience how one partner being a spender, and the other a saver, can create considerable tension, especially when the budget is tight. We aim to equip you with the tools to navigate this often-confusing terrain.
But the journey doesn't stop there. We also have a candid conversation about the elusive concept of work-life balance and the stress it can create in marriages. We discuss the importance of communication and consistency in setting boundaries when parenting, especially when dealing with manipulative behavior in children. Our goal is to share strategies we've found successful in maintaining a united front as parents.
The conversation concludes by addressing how to manage expectations and changes in a marriage, especially after a health crisis. We’ll share insights into how different personality types can affect the dynamics of a relationship and offer practical tips to find balance. This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge, advice, and personal experience that anyone navigating the intricacies of marriage and relationships will find valuable. So join us, as we navigate these complexities together, with vulnerability and a touch of humor.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bryan (00:01):
You've probably heard this word or this phrase quite a
few types.
Cognitive dissonance, somethingthat's said in the news, you
see in articles and otherpodcasts.
Today, we actually want to talkabout it really in its simplest
terms, and we're actually goingto talk about this more is that
your values or your beliefsdon't line up with your actions,
and we want to talk about howthat affects us in our marriages
(00:23):
and our relationships.
Welcome to another episode ofAmplified Marriage.
(00:44):
I'm Brian, I'm Natalie.
You have heard us say manytimes, wherever you are grab a
coffee, grab a tea, chill outand relax.
We're going to be talking aboutit's a pretty heavy topic, it's
not an easy topic, but it'ssomething that is absolutely
needed to be talked about today.
Natalie (01:00):
That's right.
And if you missed our lastepisode, we talked about how
fear fuels tension.
Oh geez, that's a tonguetwister, that's a tongue twister
.
The fear of the unknown.
We talked about anxiety andstress specifically for the what
if scenarios and going throughthat, so I highly recommend you
check that out.
We're kind of in a tensionseries, I guess you could call
(01:21):
it yeah.
Bryan (01:24):
Just, it's been one of those, those ones that as we
kind of we, we did some research, we kind of thought back into
our own relationship and howfear was such a fuel, a part of
it, how even some of the whatwe're going to be talking about
today and the cognitivecognitive that I can say that
five times faster cognitivedissonance, how that played a
(01:44):
real huge part of ourrelationship until we learned a
few things like how tocommunicate, how to talk about
expectations, how to how toactually deal with conflict, how
those things actually leftunchecked can grow into
something big.
And so we do have a definition,and we want to start with this
about what it actually is.
Natalie (02:02):
This is a clinical definition.
Bryan (02:04):
I'm going to let you read it, because there's a lot of
big words.
Natalie (02:06):
A psychological conflict resulting from
simultaneously held incongruousbeliefs and attitudes, and the
example that psychology todaysaid was as a fawness for
smoking and a belief that it isharmful.
I know there's a lot of mumblejumble there.
We're going to break it down tosimpler terms.
Bryan (02:25):
Okay, so here here's what it is, when we break it down to
a little bit easier to like.
My kind of reading level isthis cognitive dissonance is a
mental conflict that occurs whenyour beliefs don't line up with
your actions, and the way thatis been put is that it's an
uncomfortable state of mind whensomeone myself or you or
whoever listening has acontradictory values, attitudes
(02:49):
or perspectives about the samething.
Natalie (02:51):
That's right.
Bryan (02:52):
And so when we talk today , there's going to be a few
things that maybe you've heard,even a conversation with other
people, and there's a bunch ofterms.
I'm going to read just a few ofthem.
Like mental conflict is one ofthem.
Yeah, this all means the samething, it all means aspects of
the same thing, but like mentalconflict, inner turmoil,
psychological tension, beliefdiscrepancy You've heard that
(03:15):
one a lot.
Yeah, moral dilemma and moraldilemma Woo.
Natalie (03:19):
Let me speak that kind of podcast, yep.
Bryan (03:22):
And like a value conflict and so like.
When two people who are man andwoman come into a relationship
and two people that haveopposing ideas, opposing
childhoods, opposingcircumstances, opposing the way
they've grown up, opposinggenealogies, different cultures,
sometimes different upbringing,like all of those things come
(03:45):
from a divorced home versus notdivorced home, all of those
things can create tension in arelationship which is in a fancy
word, and some things that cancome up are things like
cognitive dissonance.
Now we want to break them downand we actually want to equate
them to some of the situationswe've found ourselves in our own
marriage and for your own use.
Natalie (04:04):
And if you think I'm going to skip this one, this
isn't really relative to me.
Bryan (04:07):
Like this relevant, relevant, oh Lord, yep that kind
of podcast.
Hey, it's just, we're justgoing to go with it Relevant.
Natalie (04:16):
You probably are in this current situation.
Yeah, Because even as we wereprepping and stuff we're going
through, we're like no, they'vebeen there, been there, been
there, still there.
Bryan (04:25):
Yeah, we live here.
This one's been a tough one.
We don't like this one, so thevery first one that we want to
start with is like it's.
We call it a value of valuediscrepancy.
There's a difference, so theway that we kind of laid this
out is one.
This is a financial version, sosay that I'm the spender and
(04:46):
Natalie is the saver which istrue.
Is it, though, or at least itwas so, because she's a saver
and I'm a spender, our twoversions of what to do with our
money clash, and that causes usto have a little bit of tension
in the relationship.
Natalie (05:06):
That's right, and it's hard, especially when you've not
had ample resources, asfinances go For this to be a
cycle that repeats itself rightbecause when, when there's
plenty, it's much easier to beon the same page.
Bryan (05:30):
Yeah, when your bank account is full, man, it's easy
to trust God like we're gonnasave.
Natalie (05:34):
We're gonna put money over here.
We're gonna put money overthere when there's when there's,
you know, substantial Money todo that.
When there's not and this iswhere we found ourselves is when
there wasn't it was like wejust kind of shut off, like what
we should be doing with ourmoney, we're like forget it,
(05:55):
we're just gonna go Out forlunch or whatever.
I'm like we shouldn't go outfor lunch because we really
can't afford.
You're like I'm not gonna letand you know, not having any
money prevent me from doing thethings I want to do.
And so we were in this constant.
Bryan (06:08):
Which is stupid, which, even if I think back about it's
really dumb.
Natalie (06:11):
Well, it was dumb and we paid.
Like you've heard us say inmany podcasts, if you have
joined us in our webinars, wepaid the stupid tax for our
Junkie financial Choices that wemade.
We, we paid a consequence forit.
Bryan (06:27):
Well, and one of the the primary reasons for divorce in
North America I still think thisstat holds is that it's
finances.
I would agree and it's a lack ofcommunication.
So Nat and I fought Tremendousamounts over the like.
I'm not kidding, I wouldn'ttell her.
And this is again game.
This is where we're gonna ageyourself.
This is.
We're so old that if we wantedto know what was in our bank we
(06:49):
had to go to the bank machineand then, all of a sudden,
telephone banking come on.
You could call in and it wouldtell you this is long before, so
I would know what was in there.
But Nat would say I would leavethe house in the morning to go
to work and she's like you can'tbuy anything today, she's.
I was like what do you mean?
I can't buy anything, so wedon't have enough money.
Because she called and we knewwhat was in there, she knew what
the bills were coming out.
She's like you can't buy.
We have to save her money.
(07:09):
We want to have a little bit ofextra at the end of the month
to be able to do this.
That the other thing you can'tspend anything in me being like
oh, whatever, it's just, it iswhat it is.
I'll just make more dumb me.
I would go out and I'd buy $10lunch back when McDonald's was
10 bucks or seven bucks or whereit was and that cost us.
Or back when I was a smoker,she'd say you can't go, you
can't have pop, you can't haveany food, you can't do anything.
(07:31):
And I would go buy cigars, yeah, instead of saving the money
and this causes.
Or I would go to the store andbe like I need new shirts.
So it's about a shirt, knowingthat I have plenty shirts at
home that could are still usable, but for whatever reason, that
did not sink in, and so thatcaused a tremendous amount of
tension, and so our two values.
Natalie (07:49):
We're different.
And there was this, this air ofpride, and there was this air
of you don't tell me what to do.
Bryan (07:54):
Absolutely, and I'm stubborn that way, like why did
you have my wish there wascameras to see what your face?
Natalie (08:00):
does in certain things.
Bryan (08:05):
But I'm stubborn and I don't like to be told what to do
.
Like as an eight, as achallenger, I'm like, I don't
want to be controlled.
I also don't need to be incontrol, which is almost counter
.
Natalie (08:13):
Intuitive and see, here's the thing too.
We talked about finances whenwe, before we, got married and
we talked about it all.
All the way through, like wetalked about everything, but but
then you're faced with thereality of it and and it was
like we shouldn't, but like one,you know, and then one gives in
(08:34):
because one doesn't.
You know, I didn't want you tobe mad, I didn't want, you know,
do you feel like I was likelording over you what you know?
We're telling you what youcouldn't, couldn't do, and
controlling you and all of this.
And so there was this Tensionin our marriage for years Not
just the beginning years inregards to you know, we couldn't
(08:55):
go on vacations because therewas just no extra money to go on
vacations.
Bryan (08:58):
Well, one, because is I wasn't working a really
high-paying job and we, honestly, we would have done a lot
better had not had honestly andnot spent as much as I did.
Right, there would have beenmore opportunity, but it's one
of those things.
We come from a Generate, myparents didn't teach me anything
about money, so what are wedoing with our kids?
We're teaching them about money?
Like this is we used to paytheir taxes for Amazon with
(09:21):
different world.
Now you can pay up till 13years old.
You pay for whatever's on there, we'll take care of the taxes,
kind of like.
We're teaching your kids how todo money a bit better than we
do.
We never learned that stuff andI had to learn that the hard
way, after going into debt,paying the stupid tax for years,
like it was only in like 2018or 1918, 1718 where we finally
(09:43):
Got our crap together and weactually paid our debts off and
now now we're in a safe Mostly asafe place.
I say so in a comfortable placethat we're able to take care of
our kids Well and live in areally expensive city and we're
being blessed.
But man, it's a lot of work andbudgets are hard and the
problem being is a lot of peopleConsistency well, consistency
(10:04):
is hard with the budget, but alot of people didn't learn how
to budget.
And then, yes, you talked aboutmoney.
Like we, when we dopre-marriage counseling, we
hammer on this with them becausewe always know one's gonna be a
spender and one is gonna be a.
Natalie (10:18):
Savor always.
Bryan (10:19):
I've never, ever coached.
We've never coached a couple ordone pre marriage with a couple
that ever was one.
They were both spenders andthey're both savers.
There's always one or the other.
Natalie (10:28):
Yeah, so just provided a lot of inner and outer
conflict and because you know,even if if we weren't fighting
about it like verbally oh, I wasthinking it- and there's ten,
there's tension right and it wasjust like.
You know.
You can see it in the momentit's like oh, this is great,
like we're, we're out andeverything is fine, except
(10:49):
everything is not fine Becausethe reality of the situation is
so waiting for you when you gethome.
Yeah and we didn't just we didnot understand how to make money
work for us, but also to get onthe same page when it came to
budgeting.
Bryan (11:03):
Yeah, and then, even moving on to that, one of the
other ways that in marriage,that you you struggle in this
area Is that there could bedifferent parenting styles, is
that one wants to be a bit moreStrict yeah my hand is up and
I'm a bit more on the strictside and Natalie, when the kids
were young, was a bit more onthe the lenient side, but still
(11:28):
strict.
This is one of those areaswhere the majority of our, with
our children, we've been on thesame page for a lot of stuff.
Natalie (11:35):
Yes.
Bryan (11:36):
For most things when it came to the kids.
But we sure couldn't getfinances together, but we sure
raised the kids together.
Natalie (11:42):
No, and again, this is one of the things we talked
about, and talking about it isgreat.
It gives you a place, astarting point, it gives you a
goal.
Bryan (11:50):
Right.
Natalie (11:51):
Then you're faced with the reality of having children.
Bryan (11:53):
Oh boy.
Natalie (11:53):
And you know I was in my mid-20s when we had our first
child and you know I'm gratefulI wasn't in my young 20s, like
my early 20s.
Bryan (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Natalie (12:06):
Because I think it would have been a different.
It would have looked a lotdifferently.
Bryan (12:11):
Well, even with our first kid we did, and that's the
guinea pig, that's what everyonesays we would.
We let him stay up till 10, 30or 11.
And then eventually one of ourfriends is like hey, I don't
think that's gonna work for you,you need to be more consistent
and change how that works.
And we did.
I remember my sister.
She came up and she's like man,why do you put your kids to bed
(12:31):
so early?
It's like 6.30 now, like we hadall three kids and she had no
kids.
And she used to give me grief,not like in a mean way, but I
was just like why do you do that?
I'd let my kids stay up till atleast eight o'clock.
Then she had kids and all ofher kids at the age that they're
at now or the age of my kids,they all go to bed before eight
before seven, sometimes the most, the two youngest.
Natalie (12:52):
And they were young.
They went to bed at six.
Bryan (12:53):
And she's like now I see why.
Natalie (12:56):
And here's a thing that just came to me as we were just
having a conversation is thatnot undermining you?
We worked really hard not toundermine each other in front of
our kids.
Bryan (13:10):
Yeah, that wasn't always successful, but Right of like.
Natalie (13:14):
Well, we had talked about this and then a situation
arose and it was like why, inthe moment, changed my mind and
I think you're being harsh.
Bryan (13:22):
Yeah.
Natalie (13:23):
Right and in front of the kids is not the time to have
a conversation.
Bryan (13:26):
No, and we're when they were younger, when we were
trying to establish, like rightnow, if we disagree, we'll just
disagree in front of the kids,Unless it's not a serious issue,
but they need to see that we'reon the same page.
Natalie (13:43):
They see that we have conflict and conflict is not a
bad thing.
Bryan (13:46):
No, and we're resolving it.
Natalie (13:47):
Resolved conflict is bad.
Bryan (13:49):
But where you're gonna struggle in parenting is when it
comes to that side, and weactually see this when we coach
with couples, especially whenthey have children.
Is that one the kids know, theparents, one will give in and
one won't yes.
And so they actually manipulateboth of them to get what they
(14:10):
want.
Natalie (14:10):
Huge tension.
Bryan (14:11):
And it's when you're in the middle of having kids all
under the age of like 11 or 12or 13,.
That cycle right there isincredibly challenging anyway,
without you and your spouse oryou and your partner not being
in the same, in the same mindsetabout how we're gonna
discipline our kids.
If you say no snacks before bed, but the other one is like,
yeah, you could have a snackbefore bed, but they were like I
(14:33):
already told them no.
And then the kid comes up well,my snack.
Well, dad said yes and mom saidno.
Well, you weren't on the samepage.
And then you gotta work it outright there.
But if that happens over andover and over about every little
thing, well, no, pop, yes, yes,no, oh it is, did they get?
Natalie (14:51):
We're taking time bomb for the parent that is wanting
the established rules followed.
I was like, hey, we talkedabout this and we agreed that
this was how it was going to go,and then it doesn't.
It creates undue unnecessarybecause you talked about this
(15:12):
already, like it wascommunicated.
And if there's a change thatneeds to be made because it's a
special occasion or whatever,like a birthday or whatever then
talk about that so that parentsare on the same page.
Bryan (15:27):
And contradictory popular , what you see over all over
Instagram and TikTok and allthese things.
Now it's okay that your kid isdisappointed 100%.
And it's okay that youdisciplined your child and said,
in fact, I'm gonna support dadhere.
Dad said no snacks before bed,I'm going with dad.
We didn't talk about it.
Yeah, that's hard on you.
That's okay that you'redisappointed.
(15:48):
You don't need to have a snackbefore.
Do you just had dinner an hourago?
We're gonna go with that.
It's okay that you do that withyour kids, right, like?
Natalie (15:54):
it's okay, 100%, I think.
Learning to cope withdisappointment.
Is a good thing for the kids Isa good thing and it's a good
thing for us as parents to teachour kids and it's not to use it
to manipulate and to just bemean and cruel.
There are times where it's a no, and it has to be a no and it's
(16:20):
okay that they express theirdisappointment in that, at the
end of the day, you are theparent.
Yeah.
Bryan (16:26):
Yeah, and yeah, absolutely.
One of the next things thatactually causes stress and it
caused a lot of stress betweenNatalie and I and a lot of
tension was work-life balance.
This is a huge one that Ididn't really know that I was as
much of a workaholic as I wasuntil when I started that trail
(16:50):
back when we first starteddating, because I had jobs
before but I wasn't working like60 hours a week Like I was
there.
I didn't realize I was aworkaholic or enjoyed working
that much, and part of it wasbecause our marriage was
terrible and I didn't want to gohome.
The other part of it is I wantedto provide for you.
So again, on one hand I'm likeI really don't want to go home
because all we're going to do isfight, but on the other hand.
(17:10):
I really need to go to work, soI can support her, so I can go
home and so we can fight.
Natalie (17:14):
Like it was just a weird, you're at an emotional
cross, yeah.
Bryan (17:17):
And so I worked a lot, like I was working five, six,
seven times seven.
I remember one time when weactually had a baby and I was
still at trail.
I remember kissing Nataliegoodbye on a Monday and saying
I'll see you SaturdayEssentially kind of thing,
because she was in bed before Igot home and I was gone before
she woke up.
So often we would talk on thephone a couple of times and this
(17:37):
is one of those things that Ididn't know was going to happen
and we didn't handle very well.
Also, not wanting to go homeand you not wanting to be with
me because we were fighting allthe time made it easier for me
to go, but we never communicatedabout it, we never talked about
it, we never and then when wedid, it was just flaccid in the
pan, mad Well why are?
you gone all the time.
Well, because we don't have asmuch money and I'm struggling
(18:01):
like I want to work and Well, itwas always under the guise of
financially providing Right.
And part of it was thinkingback.
I mean, part of it was becauseI wanted to make sure I was
supporting you Truthfully.
But there's the other partwhere we were just arguing and
fighting all the time and it washard to be at home yeah, but
you get in this cognitivedissonance when I'm craving
(18:21):
quality time with you.
Natalie (18:23):
Yeah, and I understand that you have to work.
Yeah, but this is excessive.
Bryan (18:28):
Yeah Well, and it's not.
It wasn't just normal 40, 50hours a week.
Natalie (18:31):
It was like, no and like for those.
If you might be out there andyou were like married to a
workaholic or you are dating aworkaholic, it's not to say that
that can't change.
Bryan (18:44):
No, it's because it sure can.
Natalie (18:45):
You changed and you know where.
We had a newborn baby and acolicky newborn baby.
So if anyone of you has had acolicky baby, it's exhausting in
all of like postpartumeverything.
Everything is just exhausting,and so to be to feel like I am
(19:08):
on my own, yeah.
Bryan (19:10):
Yeah.
Natalie (19:10):
With this and you're gone and under the impression
that you're financiallyproviding, which you were, but
I'm also not choosing arelationship.
You're not.
You're not prioritizing, yeahRight.
And so there's this tug of warthat happens of like, yes, I
know you need to provide, butthen there's still the balance
of being at home.
Bryan (19:30):
I will.
I will say this is that I thinkwhat we've learned over the
last few years and this is partof a book I read I wish I could,
it was, I think it was anatomic habits by James Clear,
but said the, and he was talkingall about discipline and I
don't know.
He was doing a podcast withsomeone.
He said the work life balanceis a myth.
(19:52):
He said, realistically, if youlook at your life, I spend more
hours per week with the people Iwork with, because eight hours
that's what our culture does.
We work for eight hours, ninehours, 10 hours a day.
I spend more time with my myend.
So if I was to try and balancethat out, especially when
they're young and the kids go tobed seven, I have to be able to
work at every day at 12 tospend the equal amount of time
and and.
But where we get into troubleis when we choose work and
(20:16):
that's our number one priorityover our family, and I can't
stress this enough only becauseI've been through this is that
there is no job.
Maybe there's jobs, but therecan't be a normal person job
like I'm a normal person, likeI'm not a diplomat, I'm not a
politician.
I don't know what their hoursare like, but I'm just saying
that if you're working on,there's no job out there that's
(20:36):
worth sacrificing your familyfor.
I would say that even forpoliticians and diplomats and
family like oh, but I'm sayingthat there's no job out there
that's worth working so muchthat you don't know your wife,
you don't know your children.
I remember I cried at a pride atwith my boss I don't think I
ever told you this.
I was with Chris, he was myboss in in Red Deer and Rainan
had been born and I had goneback to work and I hadn't seen
(21:00):
him for like two and a halfweeks because essentially I
would come home Uh, I would,you'd be already in bed, he'd
are be in bed.
It was like nine or 10 and I'dleave the next morning at like
six, 30 or seven to go to work.
And I remember sitting in hisoffice and if you don't give me
time off and I'm crying I wascrying in his office If you
don't give me time off, I'llquit right here.
And they said I need to havesome time off so I can go see my
son.
I haven't seen my son and andlike they was like at that point
(21:22):
, like 17 days, like it may belittle bits and pieces and so
there's no job that's worthsacrificing your family, but I
can say that now, however, wedealt with that and hours got
better and then I ended upworking as a job, as a pastor,
and I remember you telling me uh, I don't know, it was like year
three you love your job.
Then you love being a pastor ofthe church more than you love
(21:45):
your family, and that just aboutgutted me.
But it also forced me to makesome drastic changes in how we
approached our family.
Natalie (21:54):
Yep.
Bryan (21:55):
And those things.
I was working not because mypastor was saying I need you to
pull the hours into it Not atall.
Natalie (22:00):
As a matter of fact, he he may.
Bryan (22:02):
he was like you have to connive around my back with my
wife to get me to take time offof making sure that you take
your time off, but you know it's.
Natalie (22:10):
it's a type of when you're in ministry and anyone
who might be in ministry knowsthat I mean you're pulled in 47
different directions and peopledon't understand that.
You're like, well, you shouldbe at my back and call when I'm
having an emergency and andthere are times where, yes, it's
like call back in businesshours- right.
(22:33):
Because we do have a family atthe end of the day that we go to
and they are the priority.
Bryan (22:38):
I I want to write a book for young leaders one day, like
in the next few years probably,I really I've thought about this
a lot.
One of my chapters is going tobe all about other people.
Don't know what your time islike, that's right.
And they just assume thateverything you do is for them.
So the work life balance is areally tough one.
The next one is there's acouple that I follow on
Instagram that does little skits.
(22:59):
She's an introvert or anextrovert and he's an introvert.
I'm an extrovert, I'm anintrovert and Natalie's an
introvert and we have learnednow, after this many years
together, what works and whatdoesn't.
When she says she's done, it'snot because she's trying to get
out of anything, it's becauseshe's finished and she's hit her
limit.
And she'll tell me, usuallybefore I said uh, brian, this
(23:19):
will probably be the last onethat I can do this week, like
I'm tired, I'm done, I'mfinished.
And then sometimes she plansthings and does it to herself.
Natalie (23:27):
That's right, and then I regret it.
Bryan (23:28):
And then I.
And then there's sometimes I'malso I'm.
I'm kind of a in between, anextrovert, introvert.
I think in my older age I'mmore of an ambivert, where I can
be either or and that way.
But this can be really hard oncouples that want to have a
social life, one that, one thatdoes, and one that's just like
chilling out at home.
Natalie (23:46):
That's right, natalie's a home, yeah.
Bryan (23:48):
So me and my one son, ezra, my middle son, we and my
daughter actually embers, we'reall like let's go be where
there's people.
The bigger the crowd, thebetter.
The more energy the better.
And me, well, my oldest son andmy wife are exhausted being
with the three of us becausewe're having the time of her
life when there's like a hundredpeople around.
Natalie (24:04):
Exactly, and you know there's.
There's a thing aboutcommunicating your, your uh
capacity.
Bryan (24:11):
Well, right, and these things will cause a lot of
tension, especially when you'reyou're you're young married,
then you have your young withyoung children.
And if you don't realize thatwhen you have a child, your life
changes, yes, it does.
And when, when you're young andyou're married man.
You could do so much stufftogether.
You can just leave the house,you can go to whatever
restaurant you want, you couldtake off for a weekend.
It's all good when you havekids, that makes a little bit
(24:33):
more challenging.
And the one that needs to bearound people, maybe like
starving to be with people.
And then the one who, like atthe beginning of COVID Natalie,
was like this is the greatestthing ever I get to stay at home
, I love this.
And I was like I'm dying.
Oh, it was.
Natalie (24:51):
On on a lot.
On an emotional level it wasjust wonderful.
A forced relaxation, relaxing.
Well, it wasn't relaxing, butit was like forced downtime.
Yeah, right it was forceddowntime, but then you realize
because you're you're an adultand you're healthy.
Bryan (25:08):
You're like we can't do this forever.
No, no, this.
This gets rid of old quick.
Natalie (25:13):
And so so that's the the social life.
Bryan (25:16):
You just got to be careful how you two communicate
with each other about that.
Like every one of these thingsthat we'll get to that at the
end.
I want to talk about that atthe end, but here's the the very
the last time that we are.
The second last one we want totalk about is behavioral changes
.
This one's interesting.
You want to kind of break.
Well, I just when we weretalking about this, just thought
of you know.
Natalie (25:34):
Jacqueline Hyde was the visual that came to my mind in
regards to behavioral changes.
So we had an expectation.
Um, I had an expectation in ourdating years and in our
marriage based on based onevidence and facts that you and
I had actually talked aboutgoals, plans that we had made
(25:56):
for how this was going to rollout.
And then the reality ofmarriage hit and it was nothing
like we had set out.
It was just like that didn'tmatter anymore.
And it was.
You know I, you pulled a Jekylland Hyde.
All right, we've got to go.
You know I, you pulled a Jekylland Hyde.
We talked about this before, andit and it was um.
You were like a chameleon.
(26:17):
I felt really betrayed and Ifelt, um, like the rug had been
ripped out from under me and wedid not align Our reality,
didn't align with with theexpectation.
Bryan (26:28):
That's true.
Natalie (26:30):
Which can cause a lot of unease, Can cause a lot of
doubt, Can cause a lot of okay.
Well, now I'm.
What did I do?
Like I made the biggest mistake.
Bryan (26:39):
That's really what it felt like.
Well and like, even even tothat effect too, like I don't
know, it's still like this.
Now, when young couples getmarried, everyone and their dog
is telling them like, oh, loweryour expectations in this area,
and oftentimes, especially whenit's couples that we know that,
of course, I've never had sexbefore.
It's always about while livingtogether.
That's going to be new bathroomexperiences, showers, um, and
(27:03):
sex.
Right, like, sex is always thebig one, yeah.
Natalie (27:06):
What happens, though, if there is like a health crisis
?
Bryan (27:09):
Yeah.
Natalie (27:09):
And something happens.
Bryan (27:10):
Yeah.
Natalie (27:11):
You, just you can.
You can plan on paper, but thenyou know your expectation of
we're we're going to grow oldtogether, we're going to be
healthy and we're going to bedoing all of these things and
then, and then boom out of theblue which we know a few couples
Health crisis happens right,and the expectation then you're.
You're at that crossroads.
Bryan (27:28):
And I will as a point of encouragement to any men that
are listening to this I was anextreme case.
I literally like when she saysJack along hide, she's not
kidding.
Before we were married, I waslike the, the model boyfriend,
model fiance.
Natalie (27:42):
With all the dumb cliches too.
Yeah, I sing her songs andwrite me poetry.
Bryan (27:48):
And then I was not prepared for marriage and it hit
me like a ton of bricks and Iturned into to hide real quick.
Wait, no, jekyll, the other guy, the bad one, jekyll I don't
know Whichever, but I justturned.
I turned into something elsethat was not at all like I had I
had expected, but also how shehad expected.
But I will tell you in all ofthat, as a point of
(28:11):
encouragement, that you can comeout of that.
You can change, life can change, you can get better, you can
have a good relationship, youcan have a good marriage.
It just takes a lot of work anda lot of intentionality.
Natalie (28:21):
Well, and a lot of self reflection, like you can't get
help if you don't think there'sa problem.
Bryan (28:28):
Yeah.
Natalie (28:28):
Right, and so if you're in a situation where you're you
know you or your partners issuffering from like severe
behavioral changes, reach out,get counseling.
Bryan (28:40):
Yeah, get counseling, get help.
Natalie (28:42):
I wish that we would have done that way earlier than
we did.
We are huge advocates for whatis that Like?
Extra help.
Bryan (28:53):
Yeah, counseling I just thank you.
Wow, you're.
The words are not your strongsuit today.
Natalie (28:59):
Right, um, because they will help you navigate the new
dynamics.
Bryan (29:02):
Right the thing is to is that you, what happens sometimes
if a couple is struggling intheir relationship, especially
over the course of years, andthey don't really communicate.
And then one day, you, you hearthat you've seen it in movies,
oh, they've changed.
Yeah Well, if you were walkingwith them, you would have.
(29:23):
You would have seen that changeand worked with that change
with them.
And you would have growntogether, the way that you look
at someone else across the tablewhen you're eating dinner and
saying, man, you've changed, Idon't know you anymore.
It's because you weren't tryingto communicate your way through
it, or you just didn't know how, right, what.
And so, all of a sudden, therecan be, you can genuinely have
different values and different.
(29:44):
The way you view things isdifferent the way all because
you didn't communicate, youdidn't come, you didn't talk
about your expectations and youliterally just lived in the same
house for years and years,still being friends and still
doing things and still having amaybe a good relationship, but
you didn't know what was goingon, so much so that you, you
looked across one day.
The kids are gone, like we, wedidn't talk about this all, and
(30:06):
Natalie can't talk about ourkids leaving without getting a
little teary-eyed, and but we'realso thinking, like we hear
this all the time they, they,the kids, leave, and now the
husband and wife are like, well,who are you?
Yeah, and we have.
We really don't want that foreach other.
So that I'm looking forward to,I'm looking forward to a strong
word.
I don't want them to be gone,because I love my kids and I
(30:26):
want to provide them everyopportunity to succeed in the
town that we're in, but whenthey're gone, I want to be able
to be like Nat hey, let's justpack up and go away for two days
and and be like let's bespontaneous, because we know
each other well enough.
I'm like I know where I'm goingto take her and not look at her
and be like, well, I'm going tohang out with the boys because I
don't know who you are anymore,Right.
Natalie (30:46):
Exactly.
Bryan (30:47):
And so you're.
You will change, but if you'reworking together in the
relationship, you will changetogether and grow with each
other and build with each otherand and mature together, and
that's exactly what you want.
Natalie (31:00):
And that was one of the things that we've talked about
with our kids of like.
We want to set you up to be,like I don't know model citizens
, functioning citizens,contributing citizens, all the
while cultivating our marriageright, because that is, first
(31:21):
and foremost.
Bryan (31:22):
Right, Absolutely.
And the last thing in before wewe close this down is just
sometimes affection or emotionalsupport or and you know what
it's okay to say to your spousespouse, I got 50% of me today.
Natalie (31:40):
That's fair, right, and it's you know?
um, yes, the effort you'reputting in is a hundred percent
and a hundred percent If youwant to make it work over the
the long haul.
But there's times where youknow work was awful, or you know
you've got some bad news orwhatnot, and you're just not at
your optimal.
(32:00):
And it's okay to not be at youroptimal.
Yeah, I think that's where weshoulder each other.
Um, where, where, if I'mgenerally speaking, it's worked
out this way for us.
Where, if I'm not a hundredpercent and I'm like 30%, your
70% right, and so we balanceeach other out.
Bryan (32:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a back and forth and and I
think the expectation thatsomeone else is giving 100, like
they're at a hundred percentall the time, is unrealistic,
especially when you you havechildren and you both are
working and you both have maybehigher stress jobs or you're
like finances may not be greator relationships with your
(32:41):
in-laws may not be like.
Whatever your situation may be,it's.
It's unrealistic for me toassume that every single day,
natalie's going to be at ahundred percent.
Natalie (32:50):
Right.
Bryan (32:50):
Right, and and if I have that expectation on her and she
didn't know about it and now I'mdisappointed because I didn't
communicate that with her andshe couldn't even say hey, well,
that's not, how can I do that?
Natalie (33:00):
Right and we're mismatched because you have an
expectation of of what yourneeds are and how I'm able to
provide.
Bryan (33:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Natalie (33:08):
And then I can't offer that, or I'm I like, I just I
don't have the capacity to dothat, or or I'm upset about
something and I'm unwilling todo that.
It just creates again anothertug of war of feelings and
emotions.
Bryan (33:24):
We're just ripping each other back and forth, right.
Natalie (33:26):
Like you know, you might want to or I might want to
, crave, you know, deepconversation and you were like I
just can't right now.
Bryan (33:36):
I got nothing.
And there's been times whereNatalie is talking to me about
the day and I and I just hadcome home.
I'm sitting on the couch withthe kids, they're all talking to
me and I said, Whoa, everyone,I just need 15 minutes, Give me,
give me some time.
Or sometimes my, my way is notnearly that gentle and I'm just
like everyone.
(33:56):
Just stop talking.
I'm going to go to the bedroomand just lay down because I'm
tired.
Natalie (34:00):
Yeah.
Bryan (34:00):
Give me 20 minutes.
And I barked instead of justsaid, hey, I just need a break,
like I just need a few minutesjust to recharge and I'm going
to come out.
We're going to do this.
Natalie (34:08):
Right and and again right, Like there's grace in the
moment, but it boils down tolike communicating.
Hey, it's not that I don't wantto have meaningful conversation
or whatever, but I, you know, Ijust had to let someone go
today or whatever, or someonedied, or there could be a
multitude, you know, fill in theblanks of reasons why, which is
(34:30):
drains on our emotional abilityand and yes, we don't want to
stay in that place, but there,there, there has to be
communication of like a rechargetime.
Bryan (34:40):
Right and and I like how we've titled each one of these
things is the silent strain.
There's a silent strain thatcomes and I think, even after
we've talked about our ownthrough each one of these things
.
They're the one thing that wedidn't do.
And then the one thing that weencourage whenever we coach
couples, whenever we're doingpre marriage with couples, the
(35:01):
one thing that we encourage todo is to communicate clearly,
communicate what the expectationis, if it can be met, meet the
expectation if possible, and nowthat it's been voiced, you can
actually work through thosethings together.
Natalie (35:12):
That's right.
It's not just like voicing atonce.
This is like in all of thesethings we talked about tonight,
these are like ongoingconversations because as you
grow together and as, as yourseasons changing, your kids grow
up.
Or you have kids or or maybeyou don't have kids and you get
for babies instead.
Right, there's always going tobe opportunity for you to
(35:35):
communicate, and it's not justwhat we communicated once and
that should be good.
Bryan (35:41):
No, it's like it's like I said I love you once when we
got married.
You know that I feel that way.
Natalie (35:45):
Well, no, if it changes , I'll tell you Silliness,
that's right.
Bryan (35:49):
And I would say this with with all of our team.
I said leaders are repeaters.
If I want to lead my house,nally one, and I want to lead
our children, we're going torepeat hey, I love you, this is
a discipline in our house.
This is a good, this is a bad.
We're going to repeat it overand over and even to each other.
We're going to repeat certainthings because we want them us
to, and not in a nagging way.
That's a whole nother podcast.
Let's not talk about that.
But I think the just as weclose I know this is a bit of a
(36:13):
longer one- it had to be, though, because it's a big topic.
And this is even just.
I feel like we just scratchingthe surface of some of the
stories that we heard from frompeople and some of the things
that we've been through in ourown relationship, even even what
I just said a few minutes agothe if you can communicate with
(36:33):
your spouse, if you can takesomething that has become your
normal.
That should have been theexception, right, and you are
actually experiencing like youractions tension and there's
tension in the relationship andyou believe one thing and she
believes another, or he believesanother.
However, you and then you'reyou have to work towards it, and
then your actions are sayingsomething different.
(36:55):
Hey, like you, you cancommunicate and you can work
your way through these types ofthis type of tension, this
mental strain the way that wesaid that they are.
You can work through this andactually be successful Like you
can be like.
Natalie (37:05):
what do you call a true hold, please?
Bryan (37:08):
Let's talk about this, plant that in the ground and
just be like, hey, we're gonnado something a little bit
different, right?
Natalie (37:14):
That's right.
Bryan (37:15):
You with me.
Oh yeah, you still love me.
Natalie (37:18):
Yes, yeah.
Bryan (37:20):
Notice that she paused there.
Everyone, if you have reallybeen enjoying a while the last
few episodes, but just thispodcast and journal, it really,
really does mean a lot to us.
When you won, you can go ontoour website, you can leave a
review.
You can also go onto thewebsite and you can follow us on
Instagram, you can follow us onFacebook and, if you have and
share it with everyone that youknow, if you have a topic or
(37:42):
question or something that youlike us discuss, please just
email us at amplifiedmarriagecom.
We love hearing from you and,as you have heard us say many
times before, we believe thatmarriage can be reset, refreshed
, be charged and restored.
Thanks so much for listeningTalk to you soon.
You've probably heard this word or this phrase quite a
few types.
Cognitive dissonance, somethingthat's said in the news, you
see in articles and otherpodcasts.
Today, we actually want to talkabout it really in its simplest
terms, and we're actually goingto talk about this more is that
your values or your beliefsdon't line up with your actions,
and we want to talk about howthat affects us in our marriages
(00:23):
and our relationships.
Welcome to another episode ofAmplified Marriage.
(00:44):
I'm Brian, I'm Natalie.
You have heard us say manytimes, wherever you are grab a
coffee, grab a tea, chill outand relax.
We're going to be talking aboutit's a pretty heavy topic, it's
not an easy topic, but it'ssomething that is absolutely
needed to be talked about today.
Natalie (01:00):
That's right.
And if you missed our lastepisode, we talked about how
fear fuels tension.
Oh geez, that's a tonguetwister, that's a tongue twister
.
The fear of the unknown.
We talked about anxiety andstress specifically for the what
if scenarios and going throughthat, so I highly recommend you
check that out.
We're kind of in a tensionseries, I guess you could call
(01:21):
it yeah.
Bryan (01:24):
Just, it's been one of those, those ones that as we
kind of we, we did some research, we kind of thought back into
our own relationship and howfear was such a fuel, a part of
it, how even some of the whatwe're going to be talking about
today and the cognitivecognitive that I can say that
five times faster cognitivedissonance, how that played a
(01:44):
real huge part of ourrelationship until we learned a
few things like how tocommunicate, how to talk about
expectations, how to how toactually deal with conflict, how
those things actually leftunchecked can grow into
something big.
And so we do have a definition,and we want to start with this
about what it actually is.
Natalie (02:02):
This is a clinical definition.
Bryan (02:04):
I'm going to let you read it, because there's a lot of
big words.
Natalie (02:06):
A psychological conflict resulting from
simultaneously held incongruousbeliefs and attitudes, and the
example that psychology todaysaid was as a fawness for
smoking and a belief that it isharmful.
I know there's a lot of mumblejumble there.
We're going to break it down tosimpler terms.
Bryan (02:25):
Okay, so here here's what it is, when we break it down to
a little bit easier to like.
My kind of reading level isthis cognitive dissonance is a
mental conflict that occurs whenyour beliefs don't line up with
your actions, and the way thatis been put is that it's an
uncomfortable state of mind whensomeone myself or you or
whoever listening has acontradictory values, attitudes
(02:49):
or perspectives about the samething.
Natalie (02:51):
That's right.
Bryan (02:52):
And so when we talk today , there's going to be a few
things that maybe you've heard,even a conversation with other
people, and there's a bunch ofterms.
I'm going to read just a few ofthem.
Like mental conflict is one ofthem.
Yeah, this all means the samething, it all means aspects of
the same thing, but like mentalconflict, inner turmoil,
psychological tension, beliefdiscrepancy You've heard that
(03:15):
one a lot.
Yeah, moral dilemma and moraldilemma Woo.
Natalie (03:19):
Let me speak that kind of podcast, yep.
Bryan (03:22):
And like a value conflict and so like.
When two people who are man andwoman come into a relationship
and two people that haveopposing ideas, opposing
childhoods, opposingcircumstances, opposing the way
they've grown up, opposinggenealogies, different cultures,
sometimes different upbringing,like all of those things come
(03:45):
from a divorced home versus notdivorced home, all of those
things can create tension in arelationship which is in a fancy
word, and some things that cancome up are things like
cognitive dissonance.
Now we want to break them downand we actually want to equate
them to some of the situationswe've found ourselves in our own
marriage and for your own use.
Natalie (04:04):
And if you think I'm going to skip this one, this
isn't really relative to me.
Bryan (04:07):
Like this relevant, relevant, oh Lord, yep that kind
of podcast.
Hey, it's just, we're justgoing to go with it Relevant.
Natalie (04:16):
You probably are in this current situation.
Yeah, Because even as we wereprepping and stuff we're going
through, we're like no, they'vebeen there, been there, been
there, still there.
Bryan (04:25):
Yeah, we live here.
This one's been a tough one.
We don't like this one, so thevery first one that we want to
start with is like it's.
We call it a value of valuediscrepancy.
There's a difference, so theway that we kind of laid this
out is one.
This is a financial version, sosay that I'm the spender and
(04:46):
Natalie is the saver which istrue.
Is it, though, or at least itwas so, because she's a saver
and I'm a spender, our twoversions of what to do with our
money clash, and that causes usto have a little bit of tension
in the relationship.
Natalie (05:06):
That's right, and it's hard, especially when you've not
had ample resources, asfinances go For this to be a
cycle that repeats itself rightbecause when, when there's
plenty, it's much easier to beon the same page.
Bryan (05:30):
Yeah, when your bank account is full, man, it's easy
to trust God like we're gonnasave.
Natalie (05:34):
We're gonna put money over here.
We're gonna put money overthere when there's when there's,
you know, substantial Money todo that.
When there's not and this iswhere we found ourselves is when
there wasn't it was like wejust kind of shut off, like what
we should be doing with ourmoney, we're like forget it,
(05:55):
we're just gonna go Out forlunch or whatever.
I'm like we shouldn't go outfor lunch because we really
can't afford.
You're like I'm not gonna letand you know, not having any
money prevent me from doing thethings I want to do.
And so we were in this constant.
Bryan (06:08):
Which is stupid, which, even if I think back about it's
really dumb.
Natalie (06:11):
Well, it was dumb and we paid.
Like you've heard us say inmany podcasts, if you have
joined us in our webinars, wepaid the stupid tax for our
Junkie financial Choices that wemade.
We, we paid a consequence forit.
Bryan (06:27):
Well, and one of the the primary reasons for divorce in
North America I still think thisstat holds is that it's
finances.
I would agree and it's a lack ofcommunication.
So Nat and I fought Tremendousamounts over the like.
I'm not kidding, I wouldn'ttell her.
And this is again game.
This is where we're gonna ageyourself.
This is.
We're so old that if we wantedto know what was in our bank we
(06:49):
had to go to the bank machineand then, all of a sudden,
telephone banking come on.
You could call in and it wouldtell you this is long before, so
I would know what was in there.
But Nat would say I would leavethe house in the morning to go
to work and she's like you can'tbuy anything today, she's.
I was like what do you mean?
I can't buy anything, so wedon't have enough money.
Because she called and we knewwhat was in there, she knew what
the bills were coming out.
She's like you can't buy.
We have to save her money.
(07:09):
We want to have a little bit ofextra at the end of the month
to be able to do this.
That the other thing you can'tspend anything in me being like
oh, whatever, it's just, it iswhat it is.
I'll just make more dumb me.
I would go out and I'd buy $10lunch back when McDonald's was
10 bucks or seven bucks or whereit was and that cost us.
Or back when I was a smoker,she'd say you can't go, you
can't have pop, you can't haveany food, you can't do anything.
(07:31):
And I would go buy cigars, yeah, instead of saving the money
and this causes.
Or I would go to the store andbe like I need new shirts.
So it's about a shirt, knowingthat I have plenty shirts at
home that could are still usable, but for whatever reason, that
did not sink in, and so thatcaused a tremendous amount of
tension, and so our two values.
Natalie (07:49):
We're different.
And there was this, this air ofpride, and there was this air
of you don't tell me what to do.
Bryan (07:54):
Absolutely, and I'm stubborn that way, like why did
you have my wish there wascameras to see what your face?
Natalie (08:00):
does in certain things.
Bryan (08:05):
But I'm stubborn and I don't like to be told what to do
.
Like as an eight, as achallenger, I'm like, I don't
want to be controlled.
I also don't need to be incontrol, which is almost counter
.
Natalie (08:13):
Intuitive and see, here's the thing too.
We talked about finances whenwe, before we, got married and
we talked about it all.
All the way through, like wetalked about everything, but but
then you're faced with thereality of it and and it was
like we shouldn't, but like one,you know, and then one gives in
(08:34):
because one doesn't.
You know, I didn't want you tobe mad, I didn't want, you know,
do you feel like I was likelording over you what you know?
We're telling you what youcouldn't, couldn't do, and
controlling you and all of this.
And so there was this Tensionin our marriage for years Not
just the beginning years inregards to you know, we couldn't
(08:55):
go on vacations because therewas just no extra money to go on
vacations.
Bryan (08:58):
Well, one, because is I wasn't working a really
high-paying job and we, honestly, we would have done a lot
better had not had honestly andnot spent as much as I did.
Right, there would have beenmore opportunity, but it's one
of those things.
We come from a Generate, myparents didn't teach me anything
about money, so what are wedoing with our kids?
We're teaching them about money?
Like this is we used to paytheir taxes for Amazon with
(09:21):
different world.
Now you can pay up till 13years old.
You pay for whatever's on there, we'll take care of the taxes,
kind of like.
We're teaching your kids how todo money a bit better than we
do.
We never learned that stuff andI had to learn that the hard
way, after going into debt,paying the stupid tax for years,
like it was only in like 2018or 1918, 1718 where we finally
(09:43):
Got our crap together and weactually paid our debts off and
now now we're in a safe Mostly asafe place.
I say so in a comfortable placethat we're able to take care of
our kids Well and live in areally expensive city and we're
being blessed.
But man, it's a lot of work andbudgets are hard and the
problem being is a lot of peopleConsistency well, consistency
(10:04):
is hard with the budget, but alot of people didn't learn how
to budget.
And then, yes, you talked aboutmoney.
Like we, when we dopre-marriage counseling, we
hammer on this with them becausewe always know one's gonna be a
spender and one is gonna be a.
Natalie (10:18):
Savor always.
Bryan (10:19):
I've never, ever coached.
We've never coached a couple ordone pre marriage with a couple
that ever was one.
They were both spenders andthey're both savers.
There's always one or the other.
Natalie (10:28):
Yeah, so just provided a lot of inner and outer
conflict and because you know,even if if we weren't fighting
about it like verbally oh, I wasthinking it- and there's ten,
there's tension right and it wasjust like.
You know.
You can see it in the momentit's like oh, this is great,
like we're, we're out andeverything is fine, except
(10:49):
everything is not fine Becausethe reality of the situation is
so waiting for you when you gethome.
Yeah and we didn't just we didnot understand how to make money
work for us, but also to get onthe same page when it came to
budgeting.
Bryan (11:03):
Yeah, and then, even moving on to that, one of the
other ways that in marriage,that you you struggle in this
area Is that there could bedifferent parenting styles, is
that one wants to be a bit moreStrict yeah my hand is up and
I'm a bit more on the strictside and Natalie, when the kids
were young, was a bit more onthe the lenient side, but still
(11:28):
strict.
This is one of those areaswhere the majority of our, with
our children, we've been on thesame page for a lot of stuff.
Natalie (11:35):
Yes.
Bryan (11:36):
For most things when it came to the kids.
But we sure couldn't getfinances together, but we sure
raised the kids together.
Natalie (11:42):
No, and again, this is one of the things we talked
about, and talking about it isgreat.
It gives you a place, astarting point, it gives you a
goal.
Bryan (11:50):
Right.
Natalie (11:51):
Then you're faced with the reality of having children.
Bryan (11:53):
Oh boy.
Natalie (11:53):
And you know I was in my mid-20s when we had our first
child and you know I'm gratefulI wasn't in my young 20s, like
my early 20s.
Bryan (12:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Natalie (12:06):
Because I think it would have been a different.
It would have looked a lotdifferently.
Bryan (12:11):
Well, even with our first kid we did, and that's the
guinea pig, that's what everyonesays we would.
We let him stay up till 10, 30or 11.
And then eventually one of ourfriends is like hey, I don't
think that's gonna work for you,you need to be more consistent
and change how that works.
And we did.
I remember my sister.
She came up and she's like man,why do you put your kids to bed
(12:31):
so early?
It's like 6.30 now, like we hadall three kids and she had no
kids.
And she used to give me grief,not like in a mean way, but I
was just like why do you do that?
I'd let my kids stay up till atleast eight o'clock.
Then she had kids and all ofher kids at the age that they're
at now or the age of my kids,they all go to bed before eight
before seven, sometimes the most, the two youngest.
Natalie (12:52):
And they were young.
They went to bed at six.
Bryan (12:53):
And she's like now I see why.
Natalie (12:56):
And here's a thing that just came to me as we were just
having a conversation is thatnot undermining you?
We worked really hard not toundermine each other in front of
our kids.
Bryan (13:10):
Yeah, that wasn't always successful, but Right of like.
Natalie (13:14):
Well, we had talked about this and then a situation
arose and it was like why, inthe moment, changed my mind and
I think you're being harsh.
Bryan (13:22):
Yeah.
Natalie (13:23):
Right and in front of the kids is not the time to have
a conversation.
Bryan (13:26):
No, and we're when they were younger, when we were
trying to establish, like rightnow, if we disagree, we'll just
disagree in front of the kids,Unless it's not a serious issue,
but they need to see that we'reon the same page.
Natalie (13:43):
They see that we have conflict and conflict is not a
bad thing.
Bryan (13:46):
No, and we're resolving it.
Natalie (13:47):
Resolved conflict is bad.
Bryan (13:49):
But where you're gonna struggle in parenting is when it
comes to that side, and weactually see this when we coach
with couples, especially whenthey have children.
Is that one the kids know, theparents, one will give in and
one won't yes.
And so they actually manipulateboth of them to get what they
(14:10):
want.
Natalie (14:10):
Huge tension.
Bryan (14:11):
And it's when you're in the middle of having kids all
under the age of like 11 or 12or 13,.
That cycle right there isincredibly challenging anyway,
without you and your spouse oryou and your partner not being
in the same, in the same mindsetabout how we're gonna
discipline our kids.
If you say no snacks before bed, but the other one is like,
yeah, you could have a snackbefore bed, but they were like I
(14:33):
already told them no.
And then the kid comes up well,my snack.
Well, dad said yes and mom saidno.
Well, you weren't on the samepage.
And then you gotta work it outright there.
But if that happens over andover and over about every little
thing, well, no, pop, yes, yes,no, oh it is, did they get?
Natalie (14:51):
We're taking time bomb for the parent that is wanting
the established rules followed.
I was like, hey, we talkedabout this and we agreed that
this was how it was going to go,and then it doesn't.
It creates undue unnecessarybecause you talked about this
(15:12):
already, like it wascommunicated.
And if there's a change thatneeds to be made because it's a
special occasion or whatever,like a birthday or whatever then
talk about that so that parentsare on the same page.
Bryan (15:27):
And contradictory popular , what you see over all over
Instagram and TikTok and allthese things.
Now it's okay that your kid isdisappointed 100%.
And it's okay that youdisciplined your child and said,
in fact, I'm gonna support dadhere.
Dad said no snacks before bed,I'm going with dad.
We didn't talk about it.
Yeah, that's hard on you.
That's okay that you'redisappointed.
(15:48):
You don't need to have a snackbefore.
Do you just had dinner an hourago?
We're gonna go with that.
It's okay that you do that withyour kids, right, like?
Natalie (15:54):
it's okay, 100%, I think.
Learning to cope withdisappointment.
Is a good thing for the kids Isa good thing and it's a good
thing for us as parents to teachour kids and it's not to use it
to manipulate and to just bemean and cruel.
There are times where it's a no, and it has to be a no and it's
(16:20):
okay that they express theirdisappointment in that, at the
end of the day, you are theparent.
Yeah.
Bryan (16:26):
Yeah, and yeah, absolutely.
One of the next things thatactually causes stress and it
caused a lot of stress betweenNatalie and I and a lot of
tension was work-life balance.
This is a huge one that Ididn't really know that I was as
much of a workaholic as I wasuntil when I started that trail
(16:50):
back when we first starteddating, because I had jobs
before but I wasn't working like60 hours a week Like I was
there.
I didn't realize I was aworkaholic or enjoyed working
that much, and part of it wasbecause our marriage was
terrible and I didn't want to gohome.
The other part of it is I wantedto provide for you.
So again, on one hand I'm likeI really don't want to go home
because all we're going to do isfight, but on the other hand.
(17:10):
I really need to go to work, soI can support her, so I can go
home and so we can fight.
Natalie (17:14):
Like it was just a weird, you're at an emotional
cross, yeah.
Bryan (17:17):
And so I worked a lot, like I was working five, six,
seven times seven.
I remember one time when weactually had a baby and I was
still at trail.
I remember kissing Nataliegoodbye on a Monday and saying
I'll see you SaturdayEssentially kind of thing,
because she was in bed before Igot home and I was gone before
she woke up.
So often we would talk on thephone a couple of times and this
(17:37):
is one of those things that Ididn't know was going to happen
and we didn't handle very well.
Also, not wanting to go homeand you not wanting to be with
me because we were fighting allthe time made it easier for me
to go, but we never communicatedabout it, we never talked about
it, we never and then when wedid, it was just flaccid in the
pan, mad Well why are?
you gone all the time.
Well, because we don't have asmuch money and I'm struggling
(18:01):
like I want to work and Well, itwas always under the guise of
financially providing Right.
And part of it was thinkingback.
I mean, part of it was becauseI wanted to make sure I was
supporting you Truthfully.
But there's the other partwhere we were just arguing and
fighting all the time and it washard to be at home yeah, but
you get in this cognitivedissonance when I'm craving
(18:21):
quality time with you.
Natalie (18:23):
Yeah, and I understand that you have to work.
Yeah, but this is excessive.
Bryan (18:28):
Yeah Well, and it's not.
It wasn't just normal 40, 50hours a week.
Natalie (18:31):
It was like, no and like for those.
If you might be out there andyou were like married to a
workaholic or you are dating aworkaholic, it's not to say that
that can't change.
Bryan (18:44):
No, it's because it sure can.
Natalie (18:45):
You changed and you know where.
We had a newborn baby and acolicky newborn baby.
So if anyone of you has had acolicky baby, it's exhausting in
all of like postpartumeverything.
Everything is just exhausting,and so to be to feel like I am
(19:08):
on my own, yeah.
Bryan (19:10):
Yeah.
Natalie (19:10):
With this and you're gone and under the impression
that you're financiallyproviding, which you were, but
I'm also not choosing arelationship.
You're not.
You're not prioritizing, yeahRight.
And so there's this tug of warthat happens of like, yes, I
know you need to provide, butthen there's still the balance
of being at home.
Bryan (19:30):
I will.
I will say this is that I thinkwhat we've learned over the
last few years and this is partof a book I read I wish I could,
it was, I think it was anatomic habits by James Clear,
but said the, and he was talkingall about discipline and I
don't know.
He was doing a podcast withsomeone.
He said the work life balanceis a myth.
(19:52):
He said, realistically, if youlook at your life, I spend more
hours per week with the people Iwork with, because eight hours
that's what our culture does.
We work for eight hours, ninehours, 10 hours a day.
I spend more time with my myend.
So if I was to try and balancethat out, especially when
they're young and the kids go tobed seven, I have to be able to
work at every day at 12 tospend the equal amount of time
and and.
But where we get into troubleis when we choose work and
(20:16):
that's our number one priorityover our family, and I can't
stress this enough only becauseI've been through this is that
there is no job.
Maybe there's jobs, but therecan't be a normal person job
like I'm a normal person, likeI'm not a diplomat, I'm not a
politician.
I don't know what their hoursare like, but I'm just saying
that if you're working on,there's no job out there that's
(20:36):
worth sacrificing your familyfor.
I would say that even forpoliticians and diplomats and
family like oh, but I'm sayingthat there's no job out there
that's worth working so muchthat you don't know your wife,
you don't know your children.
I remember I cried at a pride atwith my boss I don't think I
ever told you this.
I was with Chris, he was myboss in in Red Deer and Rainan
had been born and I had goneback to work and I hadn't seen
(21:00):
him for like two and a halfweeks because essentially I
would come home Uh, I would,you'd be already in bed, he'd
are be in bed.
It was like nine or 10 and I'dleave the next morning at like
six, 30 or seven to go to work.
And I remember sitting in hisoffice and if you don't give me
time off and I'm crying I wascrying in his office If you
don't give me time off, I'llquit right here.
And they said I need to havesome time off so I can go see my
son.
I haven't seen my son and andlike they was like at that point
(21:22):
, like 17 days, like it may belittle bits and pieces and so
there's no job that's worthsacrificing your family, but I
can say that now, however, wedealt with that and hours got
better and then I ended upworking as a job, as a pastor,
and I remember you telling me uh, I don't know, it was like year
three you love your job.
Then you love being a pastor ofthe church more than you love
(21:45):
your family, and that just aboutgutted me.
But it also forced me to makesome drastic changes in how we
approached our family.
Natalie (21:54):
Yep.
Bryan (21:55):
And those things.
I was working not because mypastor was saying I need you to
pull the hours into it Not atall.
Natalie (22:00):
As a matter of fact, he he may.
Bryan (22:02):
he was like you have to connive around my back with my
wife to get me to take time offof making sure that you take
your time off, but you know it's.
Natalie (22:10):
it's a type of when you're in ministry and anyone
who might be in ministry knowsthat I mean you're pulled in 47
different directions and peopledon't understand that.
You're like, well, you shouldbe at my back and call when I'm
having an emergency and andthere are times where, yes, it's
like call back in businesshours- right.
(22:33):
Because we do have a family atthe end of the day that we go to
and they are the priority.
Bryan (22:38):
I I want to write a book for young leaders one day, like
in the next few years probably,I really I've thought about this
a lot.
One of my chapters is going tobe all about other people.
Don't know what your time islike, that's right.
And they just assume thateverything you do is for them.
So the work life balance is areally tough one.
The next one is there's acouple that I follow on
Instagram that does little skits.
(22:59):
She's an introvert or anextrovert and he's an introvert.
I'm an extrovert, I'm anintrovert and Natalie's an
introvert and we have learnednow, after this many years
together, what works and whatdoesn't.
When she says she's done, it'snot because she's trying to get
out of anything, it's becauseshe's finished and she's hit her
limit.
And she'll tell me, usuallybefore I said uh, brian, this
(23:19):
will probably be the last onethat I can do this week, like
I'm tired, I'm done, I'mfinished.
And then sometimes she plansthings and does it to herself.
Natalie (23:27):
That's right, and then I regret it.
Bryan (23:28):
And then I.
And then there's sometimes I'malso I'm.
I'm kind of a in between, anextrovert, introvert.
I think in my older age I'mmore of an ambivert, where I can
be either or and that way.
But this can be really hard oncouples that want to have a
social life, one that, one thatdoes, and one that's just like
chilling out at home.
Natalie (23:46):
That's right, natalie's a home, yeah.
Bryan (23:48):
So me and my one son, ezra, my middle son, we and my
daughter actually embers, we'reall like let's go be where
there's people.
The bigger the crowd, thebetter.
The more energy the better.
And me, well, my oldest son andmy wife are exhausted being
with the three of us becausewe're having the time of her
life when there's like a hundredpeople around.
Natalie (24:04):
Exactly, and you know there's.
There's a thing aboutcommunicating your, your uh
capacity.
Bryan (24:11):
Well, right, and these things will cause a lot of
tension, especially when you'reyou're you're young married,
then you have your young withyoung children.
And if you don't realize thatwhen you have a child, your life
changes, yes, it does.
And when, when you're young andyou're married man.
You could do so much stufftogether.
You can just leave the house,you can go to whatever
restaurant you want, you couldtake off for a weekend.
It's all good when you havekids, that makes a little bit
(24:33):
more challenging.
And the one that needs to bearound people, maybe like
starving to be with people.
And then the one who, like atthe beginning of COVID Natalie,
was like this is the greatestthing ever I get to stay at home
, I love this.
And I was like I'm dying.
Oh, it was.
Natalie (24:51):
On on a lot.
On an emotional level it wasjust wonderful.
A forced relaxation, relaxing.
Well, it wasn't relaxing, butit was like forced downtime.
Yeah, right it was forceddowntime, but then you realize
because you're you're an adultand you're healthy.
Bryan (25:08):
You're like we can't do this forever.
No, no, this.
This gets rid of old quick.
Natalie (25:13):
And so so that's the the social life.
Bryan (25:16):
You just got to be careful how you two communicate
with each other about that.
Like every one of these thingsthat we'll get to that at the
end.
I want to talk about that atthe end, but here's the the very
the last time that we are.
The second last one we want totalk about is behavioral changes
.
This one's interesting.
You want to kind of break.
Well, I just when we weretalking about this, just thought
of you know.
Natalie (25:34):
Jacqueline Hyde was the visual that came to my mind in
regards to behavioral changes.
So we had an expectation.
Um, I had an expectation in ourdating years and in our
marriage based on based onevidence and facts that you and
I had actually talked aboutgoals, plans that we had made
(25:56):
for how this was going to rollout.
And then the reality ofmarriage hit and it was nothing
like we had set out.
It was just like that didn'tmatter anymore.
And it was.
You know I, you pulled a Jekylland Hyde.
All right, we've got to go.
You know I, you pulled a Jekylland Hyde.
We talked about this before, andit and it was um.
You were like a chameleon.
(26:17):
I felt really betrayed and Ifelt, um, like the rug had been
ripped out from under me and wedid not align Our reality,
didn't align with with theexpectation.
Bryan (26:28):
That's true.
Natalie (26:30):
Which can cause a lot of unease, Can cause a lot of
doubt, Can cause a lot of okay.
Well, now I'm.
What did I do?
Like I made the biggest mistake.
Bryan (26:39):
That's really what it felt like.
Well and like, even even tothat effect too, like I don't
know, it's still like this.
Now, when young couples getmarried, everyone and their dog
is telling them like, oh, loweryour expectations in this area,
and oftentimes, especially whenit's couples that we know that,
of course, I've never had sexbefore.
It's always about while livingtogether.
That's going to be new bathroomexperiences, showers, um, and
(27:03):
sex.
Right, like, sex is always thebig one, yeah.
Natalie (27:06):
What happens, though, if there is like a health crisis
?
Bryan (27:09):
Yeah.
Natalie (27:09):
And something happens.
Bryan (27:10):
Yeah.
Natalie (27:11):
You, just you can.
You can plan on paper, but thenyou know your expectation of
we're we're going to grow oldtogether, we're going to be
healthy and we're going to bedoing all of these things and
then, and then boom out of theblue which we know a few couples
Health crisis happens right,and the expectation then you're.
You're at that crossroads.
Bryan (27:28):
And I will as a point of encouragement to any men that
are listening to this I was anextreme case.
I literally like when she saysJack along hide, she's not
kidding.
Before we were married, I waslike the, the model boyfriend,
model fiance.
Natalie (27:42):
With all the dumb cliches too.
Yeah, I sing her songs andwrite me poetry.
Bryan (27:48):
And then I was not prepared for marriage and it hit
me like a ton of bricks and Iturned into to hide real quick.
Wait, no, jekyll, the other guy, the bad one, jekyll I don't
know Whichever, but I justturned.
I turned into something elsethat was not at all like I had I
had expected, but also how shehad expected.
But I will tell you in all ofthat, as a point of
(28:11):
encouragement, that you can comeout of that.
You can change, life can change, you can get better, you can
have a good relationship, youcan have a good marriage.
It just takes a lot of work anda lot of intentionality.
Natalie (28:21):
Well, and a lot of self reflection, like you can't get
help if you don't think there'sa problem.
Bryan (28:28):
Yeah.
Natalie (28:28):
Right, and so if you're in a situation where you're you
know you or your partners issuffering from like severe
behavioral changes, reach out,get counseling.
Bryan (28:40):
Yeah, get counseling, get help.
Natalie (28:42):
I wish that we would have done that way earlier than
we did.
We are huge advocates for whatis that Like?
Extra help.
Bryan (28:53):
Yeah, counseling I just thank you.
Wow, you're.
The words are not your strongsuit today.
Natalie (28:59):
Right, um, because they will help you navigate the new
dynamics.
Bryan (29:02):
Right the thing is to is that you, what happens sometimes
if a couple is struggling intheir relationship, especially
over the course of years, andthey don't really communicate.
And then one day, you, you hearthat you've seen it in movies,
oh, they've changed.
Yeah Well, if you were walkingwith them, you would have.
(29:23):
You would have seen that changeand worked with that change
with them.
And you would have growntogether, the way that you look
at someone else across the tablewhen you're eating dinner and
saying, man, you've changed, Idon't know you anymore.
It's because you weren't tryingto communicate your way through
it, or you just didn't know how, right, what.
And so, all of a sudden, therecan be, you can genuinely have
different values and different.
(29:44):
The way you view things isdifferent the way all because
you didn't communicate, youdidn't come, you didn't talk
about your expectations and youliterally just lived in the same
house for years and years,still being friends and still
doing things and still having amaybe a good relationship, but
you didn't know what was goingon, so much so that you, you
looked across one day.
The kids are gone, like we, wedidn't talk about this all, and
(30:06):
Natalie can't talk about ourkids leaving without getting a
little teary-eyed, and but we'realso thinking, like we hear
this all the time they, they,the kids, leave, and now the
husband and wife are like, well,who are you?
Yeah, and we have.
We really don't want that foreach other.
So that I'm looking forward to,I'm looking forward to a strong
word.
I don't want them to be gone,because I love my kids and I
(30:26):
want to provide them everyopportunity to succeed in the
town that we're in, but whenthey're gone, I want to be able
to be like Nat hey, let's justpack up and go away for two days
and and be like let's bespontaneous, because we know
each other well enough.
I'm like I know where I'm goingto take her and not look at her
and be like, well, I'm going tohang out with the boys because I
don't know who you are anymore,Right.
Natalie (30:46):
Exactly.
Bryan (30:47):
And so you're.
You will change, but if you'reworking together in the
relationship, you will changetogether and grow with each
other and build with each otherand and mature together, and
that's exactly what you want.
Natalie (31:00):
And that was one of the things that we've talked about
with our kids of like.
We want to set you up to be,like I don't know model citizens
, functioning citizens,contributing citizens, all the
while cultivating our marriageright, because that is, first
(31:21):
and foremost.
Bryan (31:22):
Right, Absolutely.
And the last thing in before wewe close this down is just
sometimes affection or emotionalsupport or and you know what
it's okay to say to your spousespouse, I got 50% of me today.
Natalie (31:40):
That's fair, right, and it's you know?
um, yes, the effort you'reputting in is a hundred percent
and a hundred percent If youwant to make it work over the
the long haul.
But there's times where youknow work was awful, or you know
you've got some bad news orwhatnot, and you're just not at
your optimal.
(32:00):
And it's okay to not be at youroptimal.
Yeah, I think that's where weshoulder each other.
Um, where, where, if I'mgenerally speaking, it's worked
out this way for us.
Where, if I'm not a hundredpercent and I'm like 30%, your
70% right, and so we balanceeach other out.
Bryan (32:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a back and forth and and I
think the expectation thatsomeone else is giving 100, like
they're at a hundred percentall the time, is unrealistic,
especially when you you havechildren and you both are
working and you both have maybehigher stress jobs or you're
like finances may not be greator relationships with your
(32:41):
in-laws may not be like.
Whatever your situation may be,it's.
It's unrealistic for me toassume that every single day,
natalie's going to be at ahundred percent.
Natalie (32:50):
Right.
Bryan (32:50):
Right, and and if I have that expectation on her and she
didn't know about it and now I'mdisappointed because I didn't
communicate that with her andshe couldn't even say hey, well,
that's not, how can I do that?
Natalie (33:00):
Right and we're mismatched because you have an
expectation of of what yourneeds are and how I'm able to
provide.
Bryan (33:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Natalie (33:08):
And then I can't offer that, or I'm I like, I just I
don't have the capacity to dothat, or or I'm upset about
something and I'm unwilling todo that.
It just creates again anothertug of war of feelings and
emotions.
Bryan (33:24):
We're just ripping each other back and forth, right.
Natalie (33:26):
Like you know, you might want to or I might want to
, crave, you know, deepconversation and you were like I
just can't right now.
Bryan (33:36):
I got nothing.
And there's been times whereNatalie is talking to me about
the day and I and I just hadcome home.
I'm sitting on the couch withthe kids, they're all talking to
me and I said, Whoa, everyone,I just need 15 minutes, Give me,
give me some time.
Or sometimes my, my way is notnearly that gentle and I'm just
like everyone.
(33:56):
Just stop talking.
I'm going to go to the bedroomand just lay down because I'm
tired.
Natalie (34:00):
Yeah.
Bryan (34:00):
Give me 20 minutes.
And I barked instead of justsaid, hey, I just need a break,
like I just need a few minutesjust to recharge and I'm going
to come out.
We're going to do this.
Natalie (34:08):
Right and and again right, Like there's grace in the
moment, but it boils down tolike communicating.
Hey, it's not that I don't wantto have meaningful conversation
or whatever, but I, you know, Ijust had to let someone go
today or whatever, or someonedied, or there could be a
multitude, you know, fill in theblanks of reasons why, which is
(34:30):
drains on our emotional abilityand and yes, we don't want to
stay in that place, but there,there, there has to be
communication of like a rechargetime.
Bryan (34:40):
Right and and I like how we've titled each one of these
things is the silent strain.
There's a silent strain thatcomes and I think, even after
we've talked about our ownthrough each one of these things
.
They're the one thing that wedidn't do.
And then the one thing that weencourage whenever we coach
couples, whenever we're doingpre marriage with couples, the
(35:01):
one thing that we encourage todo is to communicate clearly,
communicate what the expectationis, if it can be met, meet the
expectation if possible, and nowthat it's been voiced, you can
actually work through thosethings together.
Natalie (35:12):
That's right.
It's not just like voicing atonce.
This is like in all of thesethings we talked about tonight,
these are like ongoingconversations because as you
grow together and as, as yourseasons changing, your kids grow
up.
Or you have kids or or maybeyou don't have kids and you get
for babies instead.
Right, there's always going tobe opportunity for you to
(35:35):
communicate, and it's not justwhat we communicated once and
that should be good.
Bryan (35:41):
No, it's like it's like I said I love you once when we
got married.
You know that I feel that way.
Natalie (35:45):
Well, no, if it changes , I'll tell you Silliness,
that's right.
Bryan (35:49):
And I would say this with with all of our team.
I said leaders are repeaters.
If I want to lead my house,nally one, and I want to lead
our children, we're going torepeat hey, I love you, this is
a discipline in our house.
This is a good, this is a bad.
We're going to repeat it overand over and even to each other.
We're going to repeat certainthings because we want them us
to, and not in a nagging way.
That's a whole nother podcast.
Let's not talk about that.
But I think the just as weclose I know this is a bit of a
(36:13):
longer one- it had to be, though, because it's a big topic.
And this is even just.
I feel like we just scratchingthe surface of some of the
stories that we heard from frompeople and some of the things
that we've been through in ourown relationship, even even what
I just said a few minutes agothe if you can communicate with
(36:33):
your spouse, if you can takesomething that has become your
normal.
That should have been theexception, right, and you are
actually experiencing like youractions tension and there's
tension in the relationship andyou believe one thing and she
believes another, or he believesanother.
However, you and then you'reyou have to work towards it, and
then your actions are sayingsomething different.
(36:55):
Hey, like you, you cancommunicate and you can work
your way through these types ofthis type of tension, this
mental strain the way that wesaid that they are.
You can work through this andactually be successful Like you
can be like.
Natalie (37:05):
what do you call a true hold, please?
Bryan (37:08):
Let's talk about this, plant that in the ground and
just be like, hey, we're gonnado something a little bit
different, right?
Natalie (37:14):
That's right.
Bryan (37:15):
You with me.
Oh yeah, you still love me.
Natalie (37:18):
Yes, yeah.
Bryan (37:20):
Notice that she paused there.
Everyone, if you have reallybeen enjoying a while the last
few episodes, but just thispodcast and journal, it really,
really does mean a lot to us.
When you won, you can go ontoour website, you can leave a
review.
You can also go onto thewebsite and you can follow us on
Instagram, you can follow us onFacebook and, if you have and
share it with everyone that youknow, if you have a topic or
(37:42):
question or something that youlike us discuss, please just
email us at amplifiedmarriagecom.
We love hearing from you and,as you have heard us say many
times before, we believe thatmarriage can be reset, refreshed
, be charged and restored.
Thanks so much for listeningTalk to you soon.
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