D's Story: Mom on the List - Season 5 Episode 1

Send us a text

When life presents us with a labyrinth of trials, it's the voices of the resilient that guide us through the darkness. D's life story, as featured on Amplified Voices, illuminates such a path, marked by a turbulent childhood and other struggles.  This episode promises an intimate exploration into the human spirit's capacity for endurance, highlighting D's poignant experiences with personal sacrifice, infertility, pregnancy loss, and the complexities of the foster-to-adopt system. D's raw honesty offers listeners a chance to understand the delicate balance between seeking support and preserving personal boundaries in times of crisis.

As we pivot to the legal system, the conversation  magnifies the inadequacies of an adversarial approach to harm and the stigmatization that comes with the "sex offender" label. Through the eyes of an individual who transitioned from fearful isolation under the registry's shadow to becoming a beacon of hope for others, we unveil the hurdles and triumphs that define the journey. This episode reminds us that behind labels and stigmas lie individual stories that deserve to be heard and understood. Join Amber, Jason and D on Amplified Voices to witness how courage and advocacy can reshape the narrative of struggle into one of hope and community.

D is an active member of the Florida Action Committee and a founder of  SHINE.

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a voice, a story to tell.
Some are marginalized and muted.
What if there were a way toamplify those stories, to have
conversations with real peoplein real communities, a way to
help them step into the power oftheir lived experience?
Welcome to Amplified Voices, apodcast lifting the experiences

(00:23):
of people and families impactedby the criminal legal system.
Together, we can createpositive change for everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Amplified
Voices.
I'm your host, Jason, here withmy co-host, Amber.
Good morning, Amber.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Good morning Jason.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Amber.
Today we have a guest who wouldlike to remain anonymous, but
we're going to refer to her, forconvenience, as Dee.
Hello Dee.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Good morning Jason, good morning Amber, good morning
Dee.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
So our first question , Dee, is what we ask all of our
guests, and that is could youtell us a little bit about your
life before you entered thecriminal legal system and what
brought you into it?

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Well before the criminal legal system.
I had a lot of years, 46 to beexact.
I grew up I'm actually a WestCoast girl and I grew up in the
Bay Area and had a tumultuouschildhood.

(01:32):
I had a mom and a dad and abrother, except for we had some
alcoholism in the mix there andmy parents did not always jive,
and so there was a lot ofbickering and fighting, and
sometimes more than that, so itwas very disruptive.
We moved a lot, mostly becauseof not very responsible

(01:56):
financial decisions.
So by the time I was sevenyears old and had moved farther
north of the coast, I had moved27 times.
Wow, yeah, yep, and that initself is just very disruptive
to a young person.
And we continued to move afterthat, just in a closer, tighter

(02:22):
circle, so that I was generallygoing to the same schools from
sixth grade through graduatinghigh school.
So that was a lot for me todeal with.
I was the oldest, I'm a highlysensitive person and I'm also

(02:43):
fearless and kind of tough, andso what I did was I just sucked
it up.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
So how many kids were in the family?

Speaker 4 (02:52):
My brother and I, just the two of us.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's the two of you and then.
So you were going.
Originally you were going fromschool to school when you were
in the early years, so you werealways the new kid.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Always.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
And then.
But you said from sixth gradeup to graduating from high
school you were in the same highschool.
Or was it different schools butdifferent schools?

Speaker 4 (03:15):
Elementary was sixth grade, but I was with the same
group of kids.
We moved along to all the sameschools together and in fact my
parents continued to move and atone point they moved me out of
the district and I was at apoint where I wasn't going to
have it anymore and just said tothem I don't care what you're

(03:35):
doing, I'm continuing at thisschool district.
When these schools, I'll takemyself there.
You guys do whatever you wantto do.
And so I made an ultimatum and,mysteriously, somehow they went
along with it.
They took me to continue totake me to, because I said I'm
done, I'm not going to anotherschool district.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
But even when you're moving from school to school,
you're staying within the sameschool but you're moving from
one neighborhood to another.
I remember back during thoseyears like who your friends were
, were like the closest friendsof the kids in the neighborhood
and you didn't really ever havethat stability because you were,
like we said, you were alwaysthe new kid in the not in the

(04:18):
school, but in that neighborhood, so you're always looked at.
Did you feel like an outsidereverywhere you went?

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yes, and that was always, even amongst my closest
friends.
I was always the outlier and Iwas always.
I always felt like that.
I did go to university and Idid well.
I graduated in 1991 from theUniversity of Washington and I
had planned for myself.

(04:46):
So I was, I studied languages,international studies, history
and I had a political sciencedegree.
But actually this is where ittook the turn.
So I had everything set up, Ihad an internship, everything,
and then I met a man.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
All right Okay.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
So I had actually been previously married while I
was in college, and that didn'tlast but and I met a man and he
had great ambition and he I, youknow I followed him instead of
following my own plan.
So I took off with him, we gotmarried and went to did his

(05:27):
graduate school.
I worked, I had a baby, who ismy grown son now, and that just
it, just my birth son has highfunctioning autism, so and I
didn't always know that.
I mean, I knew that but didn'tknow what it was called, and so
that was something that wasdifficult.
He's a delight.

(05:48):
I absolutely adore my son.
So I'm working full time andI'm caring for my son and I'm,
you know, supporting my husbandwho did grad school and they did
a postdoc.
But we're just moving along,we're not having any kind of
issues or trouble Many yearspast.
We move out of state, werelocate for work, that's

(06:13):
everything's fine.
I have to go to like part timejust to be more present for my
son, because persons, if youknow anything about the spectrum
right, very, very challenging,particularly when kids move into
middle school and high school.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
So but I'm still working and Well and I just want
to sort of say there, tohighlight it a little bit,
particularly in that timeframejust because you know we have
some of these things in our ownfamily when you didn't have the
tools or the language thatpeople had put around it, it was
like really difficult tonavigate.

(06:51):
You know, it's hard enough tonavigate about what we know
about the spectrum now right,but at that time it was
exponentially harder becausesome of the supports didn't
exist.
Am I characterizing thatcorrectly?

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Oh, oh, absolutely.
He wasn't diagnosed until hewas age six.
And prior to that actually,from the very moment I received
him, you know, into this world,I knew something wasn't right
and continued to go and ask, andpeople mostly blame me, which
was incredible to me.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
Because they didn't know, right, right.

(07:26):
And finally I spoke to one ofthe foremost experts and he was
like oh, you know, this is whatthis is, and gave me actually a
load of information, was a bitmuch to process.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
And even before you know, before you move off of
that, I mean you glossed overthe fact that you were getting
blamed.
I mean, as a parent, it'salways very easy to sit back and
go.
You know, anything that happenswith my child is my fault.
How is?
How did I?
What did I do wrong?
How come this happened?
And and you know, to have thatextra added guilt added on on

(08:01):
top of everything else, thatmust have been very difficult.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
Oh yeah, and it wasn't just that they would say
those things to me.
People didn't say those thingsto me.
I mean, we had some prettyhorrendous episodes with
preschools, schools, doctors,etc.
Because they were very unkindand they didn't want to take the
time to help me figure out whatwas really happening with my
son.
But of course, I alreadythought those things Right.

(08:26):
I didn't need them to reinforcemy own fears that somehow this
was my fault.
But it was definitely.
That was.
That was something that was anextra challenge during those
years, and other things thatwere challenging is during the
you know couple of decades there, I discovered that I had a

(08:47):
mental illness and and I don'tmind sharing this because it's
it's very important to my storyI did deal with it exactly as
you're supposed to.
I mean, actually had beentrying to get somebody to tell
me what was wrong with me.
I didn't know that it was amental illness, I just knew that
I was feeling strangely for along time and I was just

(09:08):
powering through it.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Remember, I'm tough.
That's what you've been doingyour whole life.
Right, I'm just going to getthrough this and figure out.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
That's me.
I suck it up, I keep going, Iget done what I'm supposed to do
, and.
But I was asking the right kindof people and the right kind of
people were not able to give meany answers to.
Finally somebody said, oh, thisis what you're dealing with and
you know we're going to helpyou to give me some medication,
and I don't mind saying thatit's bipolar disorder and I just

(09:39):
just so people know I keep upwith all the research I did have
a stint working in medicalresearch and that that
particular disorder is caused bythe inflammation between, in
between the blood brain barrier,and so I actually have several

(09:59):
autoimmune diseases which Ididn't know that at that time.
But they cause inflammation andso it was something that I was,
I probably had had for a longtime.
I've been asking doctors aboutthis, not feeling right for
years before they finallydiagnosed me.
So I had been dealing with thatfor a long time.

(10:21):
So they, they, I got that, Igot treated properly, I was
doing all the right stuff, andthen I dealt with a long bout of
infertility and when we decidedto do more than you know all
the little advices that you getabout, you know how to be
fertile.
I, they said we, we're going todo some treatments and you have

(10:44):
to.
In order to do those, you haveto go off your medicine.
So I, with the doctorspermission and supervision, I
did it all right.
I just want that's the thingpeople need to know.
I wasn't God, wasn't Maverick,doing stuff like oh, I'm going
to go with the medicine away.
I don't do stuff like that.
I I had complier, if I'manything.

(11:04):
So I did it all right and wedid all this stuff that we
needed to do and and I dideventually get pregnant, which
was, I was so happy had beendecades.
I mean, my son was like 12 atthat time, so I'd been trying a

(11:24):
long time, wow.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Okay, long time.
That's a big age gap betweenthe two.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
It's huge yeah, and I had been trying for years and
years.
So I got pregnant and thenunfortunately had a miscarriage.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah, and but I sharing all this because it's
actually important, it'srelevant.
Sure, I had a miscarriage and Iwas working full time at the
time and I didn't even skip abeat.
I just went back to work andthat's because that's how I deal
with everything.
I was always okay.

(11:58):
You know what.
You suck it up and you get backto work and you do what you
have to do.
I had to send a care for I hadto keep, I had to support my
family, so I did what I had todo, going back.
I think that was an enormousmistake, but I did it and I
didn't deal with that grief,which was immense.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
D.
I just want to acknowledge,just take a minute to
acknowledge, you know sort ofsome of the things that you just
shared, because it doeshighlight, you know, things that
a lot of women deal with andthat we have a big stigma around
in our culture that you know,pregnancy loss or miscarriage is

(12:47):
treated not treated in the sameway as losing a child, and so
someone who has also experiencedthat in my own life, you know
we women are expected to just belike, okay, that happened.
You know, I'm going to go backto work, I'm just going to, you
know, move on with my life, youcan try again.
You know all of those sort ofmessages.
So I want to take a minute toacknowledge it and to say that

(13:11):
I'm sorry that you experiencedthat.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yeah, it's, it's really important.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Right.
And then to add on to that, Imean just the idea of just not
dealing with something that's soheavy is you know that's.
That's just something that wewe have that expectation of
people like you.
Get like a day to grieve, nowget back to work and be

(13:38):
productive, and you have thatpressure Raise your family,
raise your kid, you know, dowhat you got to do, manage that
property, whatever it is thatyou're working on, and you just
push that.
You're going to push that asideand it's okay, I can get
through it because I'm a super.
I'm a super person and I'vealways been a super person.
Look, I dealt and in your caseyou dealt with all that moving,

(14:02):
all that's, all that other stuffgoing on before.
So, but as you get older and itbecomes more serious, it's
incremental, it piles on right.
So the the stuff that youdidn't deal with from before is
added on to the new stuff thatgets on top of it.
So, and you've and you've talkedabout going off your medication
and being and having thisbipolar diagnosis, so you were

(14:25):
going through quite a bit atthat point.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Oh yeah, this is one of the things that there is, you
know, a lot of research aroundhow trauma and compounded trauma
manifests in your body asphysical illness.
There's a really, really greatbook called the Body Keeps the
Score.

(14:47):
That is very, you know,technical and dense, but it
definitely is a good read foranybody who has experienced any
type of trauma.
That sort of talks about waysto deal with that, what's
happening in your body as thosetraumas sort of compound and

(15:08):
leave you in sort of a state offight or flight, right Like you
think you're okay, but you're ina state of sort of heightened
awareness and that heightenedstress, you know, ends up
manifesting as illness, whetherit's mental or physical or
otherwise.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
And D.
I want to add on to that thewhen I know I have a sense where
we're going with this storybecause of the topic and what
we're talking about, and I justwant to say that Everybody
responds to trauma differently,so that's correct.
So when you end up, you knowYou're gonna, you're gonna go

(15:47):
and there's gonna be a crime atsome point in this story and
people listening to it will say,well, I Lost the child and I
didn't do that.
I have bipolar and I didn't dothat.
So that's very judgmental forpeople because they had their
reaction.
They've never completely walkedin your shoes.
They've never had all the thingsthat you went through and

(16:10):
they're not you, so they cannotpossibly imagine what it is like
to be you.
No matter how much you tellyour story and how much you
share with us, it's impossibleto take your entire experience
and Impart that to somebody else.
So I just want to acknowledgethat before we even get there.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
And so I was holding it together really well,
considering all the stresses andand Per and previous almost etc
.
That were happening.
And then so I the I lose that,I lose the baby, I don't take a
beat, I, we move again, and thatthat was a huge adjustment.

(16:48):
It was relocation to acompletely different region of
the country, away from family,and, but I managed that and I'm
taking care of my son and I'magain again.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
We talked about the isolation that you felt Early,
on moving from town to town whenyou were younger, or school to
school, or neighborhood toneighborhood, mm-hmm.
And.
And now, once again, you know,even you know, you've got a,
you've got a spouse who, I'massuming, is working very long
hours, given the yes and soyou're.
You're now in a new Communitywith no support, with no family

(17:25):
there.
So now it's that isolatingfeeling all over again and you
just have to, like you said,suck it up and keep going on and
so this is the thing tospeaking of the spouse.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
So the spouse is, he, his, his Career is blowing up,
he's becoming a rock star ofwhat he does and and he was
always a brilliant person andthat was inevitable.
But it is beginning.
It's beginning to change him alot.
It was beginning that wasbeginning prior to making the
big move and that makes I wasalways the person who did the

(17:59):
lion share of the childcare,which was fine with me.
I didn't really have someproblem with it per se.
That was just how it was in ourfamily.
But this is beginning to changethe dynamic in our family and I
am the person who is completelyignoring that so that my spouse
was gone, sometimes as much asfour months of the year not all

(18:23):
at once, but gone a lot,sometimes more than that and and
if and if he's, and if he'sbecoming this rock star, are you
expected to go to like certainthings during the year as the,
as the partner to show up andlook good and yes indeed, and
put out you know the

Speaker 3 (18:43):
routine you didn't see her face, everyone listening
, she was like yes, that happensAbsolutely.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
That's it.
That's an extra pressure.
So these things, these thingsare happening and I'll tell you
what I did.
This is so I wasn't.
I found Decided that I wasn't,I didn't find it acceptable that
I wasn't, didn't have this,this coterie of friends and I'm
not a part.
So that didn't necessarily comenatural to, naturally to me,
like my brother.

(19:12):
My brother was born somebody'sfriend.
I was not that person.
It was way too intense.
Well, I mean, I'm the person who, like I said, is tough and
fearless and get out of my waybecause I have something I got
to do here.
That doesn't mean that I didn'thave some friends and we didn't
, you know, it was just thatwasn't my thing.
So we move far away, but wemove away from family, that I

(19:33):
know.
And I decide I Need a circle offriends.
And when I decide I'm gonna dosomething, that's what I'm gonna
do.
And therefore I went aboutmaking some friends, friends who
understood my son's situation.
So some of them were specialeducation teachers, friends who
understood.
You know, I had other friendswho had children on the spectrum

(19:54):
.
I made friends in myneighborhood.
I'm busy kicking ass makingfriends and so before long I had
a good circle of friends, the.
The downside to that is Almostnone of them knew any of my
struggles.
They, they didn't know.
Yeah, I'm, I'm taking care ofit.

(20:14):
Why would I be bothering themwith that stuff?
I wasn't really keeping it fromthem, although some of them
thought that I was.
That was a Misunderstanding,but it did look like that from
the outside.
So two things, two things.
One, I am being likeSuperlanded out here for y'all.
Okay, this is not myconversation with most people.
I mean, I'm really laying itout for here, for y'all because

(20:36):
I feel like it.
It's not going to be powerfuland impactful if I don't just
tell you as much as I can andthe truth.
But that's not how I talk toeverybody.
So, secondly, I also I want youto remember that my spouse is
becoming a rock star in hisfield, I mean an amazing
worldwide, okay, and I can'tstress this enough.

(20:58):
And so that puts the pressureon you that you don't share your
business, you don't Mm-hmm, youknow area dirty laundry, you
don't talk.
Smack about that person.
And I had also made a commitmentto myself.
We'd had a time in our, ourmarriage before this where

(21:20):
things were rough and werecommitted to ourselves, to
each other and I said to myselfthat's it.
We think and say positivethings about the spouse period,
we'll start.
And so, although that wasmisinterpreted by some folks in
my life, thinking that I eitherthought that I was better than
them or whatever, that was howit was, that that's how I

(21:42):
presented myself and so I'mrolling along.
So we're going to go back to thefact of the infertility and the
losing the child, and I'dactually had a previous
miscarriage which was verytraumatic, so the second one was
just opening a new wound.
I still really wanted a child.
We continued to try, did someother procedures.

(22:03):
It was a no, that doesn't work,and those were hard to really
hard, mm-hmm.
And so then we decided toconsider adoption.
Okay, this is, this is veryrelevant.
So my very best friend wasadopted and so was her sister.
So I had a very positiveImpression and perspective about
adoption.

(22:24):
So we go through all theseclasses we get into, we're into
all these different programsbecause if you know anything
about adoption, it's a differentprograms you know, you, that
you can get into just to toadopt.
And the first time that we arematched, it took a long time to
be matched, I think partlybecause by this time we're a

(22:46):
little bit older and we werelooking for an infant.
So we're in that program.
We get matched, we meet theyoung young woman, we get to
know her well.
She gives birth and I we wereactually traveling.
She had the baby early, so I'vejust, like you know, I travel
48 hours straight to get to her.
I get there the day after shehas the baby.

(23:07):
I name the baby, I, I sit andhold the baby and bond with the
baby.
Oh, no, yeah, you know it'scoming.
And we were to pick up the babylike One or two days later, as
she had to stay in the hospitalfor a couple of days Just make
sure she was okay, because shecame a little early.

(23:27):
And so we show up at thehospital, my spouse and I, to
pick up the baby.
We have a whole room remembered, everything's ready for this
baby.
We know this baby because we'vebeen waiting, this baby's been
growing in our, the lovely youngwoman who's decided to adopt
the baby to us.
And at the hospital she says no, oh, we're at the hospital and

(23:52):
I couldn't even go in and saygoodbye.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Is.
That is a lot to handle.
It was a lot.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
It was a lot and and we had, you know, we were using
an agency and they're like, well, you know, they're giving me
advice and we want you to, youknow, take a few days, please
grieve.
Here's some Support groups.
We would love you to, you know,put be a part of the support
group and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I I did take some time.
I actually asked my aunt and mycousin up, who I'm very close

(24:26):
with, who live out of state.
They come up and spent sometime with me.
Husband's very stoic I mean, hewas clearly upset, but he's
very stoic and he was going todo his thing by himself.
So I called up family that Iknew would could be with me for
a bit, and they stayed for acouple of days.
I did not ever go to a supportgroup and I just need to
reference back to the fact thatI don't share my dirty laundry

(24:48):
and I am married to a rock starand I'm not blaming him.
That's just was mycircumstances, that was my life.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
So when you so, you were fully expecting to bring
home this baby that you had cometo love.
You held the baby and you namedthe baby, you did all this and
you're expecting it, and thenand then you had your world just
pulled out from under you.
And You're not really goodYou've self-admittedly not

(25:21):
really good at processingemotions.
So what type of Emotions wereyou having at that point, or you
could you even name that?

Speaker 4 (25:32):
I could, I have, I was not very good at I could
name them, my emotions.
I could feel my emotions.
I didn't.
That was it.
That was as far as they went.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
There was no process processing, right working
through.
Just okay, this is it, and nowI'm gonna do what I gotta do.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
I've always done yes, so I I felt it there.
I felt like a death hadhappened in my family.
I felt like the.
I felt exactly as I felt when Ilost my babies, my, my
miscarriages, and I felt I wasdevastated.
People knew that we were goingto bring this baby home and, of

(26:12):
course, then they were all askedand then they would see you
later and be like oh,congratulations, oh oops.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
You talked about inflammation earlier.
So I mean you and you say thatthere was a lot of.
So there was some emotion,emotional Devastation, but how
about physical?
Is it?
Were you actually physicallyhurting?

Speaker 4 (26:34):
not at that time that I Knew I it's really important
to know that I also, at thatpoint I already had one of my
autoimmune diseases and I and itwasn't stable even with
treatment at the time and Iwasn't Connecting those things.
What happened with that is Ilet that keep on piling up and

(26:58):
piling up and piling up until Inow have five autoimmune
diseases and Anytime somethingdisruptive happens in my life
and I don't deal with itimmediately appropriately, I'm
like in bed.
So I pretty much just poweredthrough.
It is the answer.
I.
I mean, I was sad and I had myauntie and my cousin come and be

(27:18):
with me and be sad with me.
But then I moved on.
I did not talk it over withanybody else who had had that
experience and I just moved onand I didn't skip a beat again.
That's kind of my theme no baitsteepen.
So we immediately into anotherprogram To try to adopt and we

(27:40):
were it.
We were in line.
It was an international programand we were in line and we were
almost next.
We were I think there were thereflection two people ahead of
us in line, and and so we'regetting excited about being
matched with an infant, aninternational infant and the
country closed it'sinternational adoption program.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
All right right.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, so way to get yourself all geared up again.
And I still have my room, mybeautiful baby room, right,
right that you had lovinglychosen everything for every
little items in there.
I go in there and I think aboutmy baby and I read the books and
think about it, so that was abig let down.
And then we're like, okay, theyears have passed, by the way, I

(28:24):
mean a lot of years have passedand we're like, well, because
I'm getting on to be I was in mymid 40s at this point, so a lot
of time is passing and we said,well, we're gonna try.
And this is me, because I amdriving this.
At this point, I need to admitthat it was almost an obsession,

(28:49):
and I think that's how I wasdealing with the pain.
It was so painful to me, and Iwill tell you that I am a
Christian believer, and so I hadbeen praying about it for an
awfully long time and I keptthinking to myself Well, I'm not
praying for something wrong,right?
You know, people pray to winthe lottery and all that kind of

(29:11):
like.
Okay, that's stupid, but I?
So?
Why is it that this keeps notworking out for me?
I don't understand, and so Iwas having an existential crisis
.
Was it not deciding I don'thave my faith?
But I was really disappointedin okay, every time I pray for
this, actually I get tragedy.
Why do I keep getting servedtragedy when I'm praying for a

(29:33):
blessing, right?
So this was something reallyhard that I was trying to deal
with and so I'm I'm at obsessionat this point.
So I'm still taking care of myhouse, my family, my husband, I
have all kinds ofextracurricular stuff going on,
but I'm gonna.
I'm gonna adopt a baby.

(29:56):
So we decided to go into thefoster to adopt program and that
was a mistake.
I'll just tell you straight upit was a mistake and but I was
so like highly focused, we'regonna get this done.
And what we gave ourselves sixmonths Because I knew it had
been a long road and we had notbeen successful Never because

(30:21):
anything we had done it wasalways other circumstances, but
I knew that had to come to anend at a certain point it what
we were not going to do another10 years.
So, because we'd actually beenin the whole adoption thing for
six and prior to that, severalyears of trying to have a baby,
right.
So I said six months, if wedon't get matched in six months,

(30:43):
we're done, I'm gonna walk awayOn the sixth month it calls up
oh, we got a match for you.
Now I want to be very clear theentire time that we were trying
to adopt, we wanted to adopt ababy girl and so even when we

(31:03):
went into the foster to adopt, Isaid I prefer a baby and I
don't really want a child, likeyou know, over five.
And they're like, okay, andthey said it's harder and we
said we understand, we're givingit six months.
So every time you do one ofthese programs, it make you take
a bunch of classes, and we tookthe classes for Foster about.

(31:24):
They warned you about all kindsof stuff, right, and I thought
I really understood.
I mean, I took this stuffseriously.
They call us at the last minute.
We have a match for you, and I'mlike, oh, I'm like over the
moon, oh, okay, great, great,great so, but the match is 16

(31:44):
and a half year old young manand I'm like, oh, I don't get it
.
You know we're trying to adopta baby girl or a very young.
You know we're not looking.
I have two boys.
I have a grown man son who hashis own children already right,
Right, right.
And I have another very younggrown man in my house.

(32:06):
I raised two boys.
I'm like, look, we've beenwanting to have a girl, oh yes,
but we just think that you're,this is gonna be a great match
and you should come and meet him.
And blah, blah, blah, he's withanother Foster family right now
.
So we get some information.
The short story is, we get someinformation that's actually red

(32:28):
flags Yep, enormous red flags.
Okay, looking back, anybody elsewould say, oh, my gosh, no,
thank you, thank you, I hope thekid gets a placement.
No, and there's some otherinformation which I'll share in
a minute.
But so, but they say it in away and I have to stress this

(32:48):
they couch it in a way thatmakes you think, well, it's okay
, it's gonna be all right, andwe, this guy's, this is, he's a
great kid, it's gonna be a greatmatch for your family, you've
already raised boys, so you knowhow to raise boys and just come
in and meet him.
But oh, and, by the way, but ifyou meet him, you pretty much

(33:10):
have to say you're gonna takehim because we don't want him to
have another rejection.
Right?
That is pretty close to a quote.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well, I just wanna validate some of what you're
saying because I, at thebeginning of my career, I worked
in that particular, inproximity to that particular
system, with children who hadexperienced significant trauma
and who were in the foster caresystem and needing to be

(33:42):
sheltered because it was verydifficult to find them
placements.
So I can validate that some ofthe ways in which people worked
with folks to try to findplacements for children who had
experienced so much and had notreceived the services that they

(34:05):
needed to work through it,sometimes there was a level of
desperation.
I will say that.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
You said it well, you said it exactly.
There was a serious level ofdesperation.
Of course, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Right, of course and that's not fair.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
No, none of it was fair.
But also I want to go back tothe fact that I was almost at a
level of obsession thinking thatwhen we needed to adopt a child
into our family.
So I wanna step back two stepsbecause there's one more thing
that's really important.
We're gonna go back to thediagnosis of the bipolar

(34:47):
disorder.
So after I was not able to havea pregnancy based on the
treatments and we decided to gointo the adoption thing, they
didn't have me go back onmedication.
So my obsession with wanting toadopt a child had been coming
on for obviously some time.
But that started two weeksbefore they called us and I went

(35:09):
to that meeting with that youngman and there were so many red
flags.
They just told us a lot ofthings that should have been.
I shouldn't even have gone tothe meeting.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
I will tell you you are ready to roast the
marshmallows at this time.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
I'm roasting marshmallows and the house is
burning down, you guys.
So the whole thing was anenormous mistake.
For me, that was mistake numberone.
I own it.
And he came to our family and Iwas not at all in a good frame
of mind.
I was doing all the things Iwas supposed to do, but I could

(35:51):
not make good judgments aboutthings at all.
I was overly enthusiastic aboutstupid things and even during
that I brought concerns to the.
So there was two offices therewas our adoption agency and then
there was his people fromsocial services and I brought

(36:13):
concerns to both of them andthey, in different ways, poo
pooed me.
Our agency took it moreseriously, but not seriously
enough and didn't really offerme the right kind of help.
They were trying to help me.
The other agency were like oh,that's not a problem, that's

(36:35):
fine, he's bonding with you andI'm like I don't know.
This is, I feel, uncomfortable,something's wrong, something's
wrong.
There was a lot wrong, a lotmore wrong than I was perceiving
, and only because I wasn'tperceiving things properly at
all, I wasn't responding tothings properly at all.
But I did know something wasn'tright and I did try to

(36:56):
communicate it.
I did communicate it to peopleand I, just when they
essentially either didn'trespond very strongly about it
or not at all, brushed it off, Ithought, oh okay, well, they
must know what they're talkingabout.
Well, mistake number two is,had I been in my right mind and

(37:18):
not in some weird enthusiasticla-la land, I would have said
wait, that I don't.
I'm sorry you guys, that's notthe right response.
I just told you concerning meand you're not giving it any
credence.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
So, dee this is the 16 year old boy comes to live in
your home, your husband'sworking mega hours and not
around.
You're in the home with thisboy who is clipped, who, by what
you're saying, has some issuesthat he's bringing with him, and

(37:57):
so there's.
Let's get to the let's fastforward a little bit here.
So you're in the house with him, you've got some things that
are happening that you'rebringing to the attention of the
groups, but then something musthave happened that reaches the
level of criminality.
Is that?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, yes, definitely .
And first, before I tell youthat, I do want to also say that
the young man was abused.
He was from a heavily abusivefamily that was deported for

(38:39):
those crimes and others.
And much, much, much deeper andmore than I had any idea about.
So he's dealing with someserious demons and I only know
about this much of that much.
So I only know the very lightsurface, and it's way deep.

(39:00):
So, yeah, so essentially, atfirst he's just doing strange
behaviors and I'm notdiscouraging him as much as I
should be.
I'm not.
I'm feeling A sorry for him, bthey're giving me the wrong
advice and they're telling methat he's bonding with me.
I'm not really dealing with itappropriately at all.
Also, I'm, like I said,ridiculously enthusiastic all

(39:24):
the time, like everything'sfunny, everything's good,
everything's wonderful, evenwhen I know it's not and I'm
trying to get somebody to helpme out.
At some point he pushes theenvelope and I'm like what the
hell just happened, oh my God.
And I remember I stepped awayfrom that and I remember

(39:47):
thinking oh my God, oh my God,what am I supposed to do with
this?
I don't know what to do withthis.
I couldn't sleep.
I didn't know what to do.
And essentially I told him thatcan never happen again.
That can never happen again.
That just you did that cannever happen again.
That was terrible, that washorrible.

(40:07):
And essentially from the momentthat I said that's terrible and
horrible, he reacted with veryviolently.
So there was a lot leading upto that that I was not being
very wise about.
I just didn't, I reallycouldn't process what was
happening.
And he would tell me repeatedlywell, if I, you know that he

(40:32):
was gonna fail school because ofme, that he might kill himself
because of me.
He was making me feel sorry forhim all the time and he would
spend every minute of his whenhe wasn't at school with me all
the time.
These were things that werekind of building up to that.
And so the point wheresomething happened, and then I'm
like, oh my God, what justhappened?
And so I remember aconfrontation saying that's

(40:58):
totally unacceptable, it cannever happen again.
That was horrible.
It took me by the face likethat and smashed me against the
wall and said you better neversay that to me again.
Other times he smashed thingsin front of me, broke them to

(41:18):
pieces and then told me that wasnext.
Other times he threatened mewith the knife.
Other times he told me that itwould be my fault if I didn't do
whatever he said and act like Iliked it.
It would be my fault if hecommitted suicide or he

(41:40):
essentially said whatever hefelt like he needed to say.
So at that point, a lot of theridiculous enthusiasm.
So I'm terrified.
I'm still manic Dies away,because now I really know what
I'm dealing with.

(42:01):
And mistake number three is thatI ever let it get that far.
I should have been runningscreaming fire, fire, fire.
But I ran back for themarshmallows because I'm totally
out of my mind and when Irealized what it was and then I

(42:22):
didn't know what to do about it.
So I lost.
I'm a slim person and I lostlike 20 pounds, so I made a bag
of bones.
I don't sleep, I'm shaking allthe time and people who knew me
are like why are we shaking likethat?
And I said, oh, it's okay.
I couldn't explain it becausewhat am I going to say?

(42:44):
Right?
And I took 100% responsibilityfor what had happened to me in
my own home.
I felt like you know, I feltlike I failed, I completely
failed, and I'm flailing aroundtrying to figure out how to make

(43:05):
it stop and how to fix it.
I didn't know how to fix italways all my life.
I fixed it, I sucked it up, Imoved forward and I came into a
situation in my life that Icouldn't do that.
It was like I tell people allthe time it was like a horror
movie.
It was a horror movie.

(43:25):
It was the most horrific thingI've ever lived in my entire
life and I felt 100% responsiblefor the horror movie.
And so I did reach out to somepeople.
I didn't tell them everything,but I told them enough to know
that I needed help and they were, and they did the best they

(43:48):
could and that was nothing.
That was going to just wait.
This young man nothing.
Ironically, we ended upadopting him.
This is how sick the horrormovie was, which just emboldened
him some more.
I am desperate to figure outwhat to do.

(44:09):
So my spouse and I went on atrip and out of country, you
know, briefly, and even fromthere, the young man is like
he's, you know, calling my phoneand reaching out to me and I'm
like I'm fine, you're stayingwith people taking care of him,

(44:35):
and I'm like you don't need toreach out to me I don't want to
talk, I don't want to haveanything to do with you right
now, and it made me realize that, no matter how far away I went,
no matter who I asked to helpme with this crisis, that wasn't
going to happen.
And I felt like at that moment,you can go to the end of the

(44:56):
earth and nothing's going tomake this stop.
This horror is not going tostop and I could barely function
.
I was so.
You know, half of me was tryingto pretend that I'm okay and
with my husband and I'm tryingto look okay, don't look okay,
right, I'm not okay.

(45:17):
I'm so not okay, but I'm tryingso hard to keep it together the
last day we're going to go backand I'm just like, oh my God, I
have to go back to this.
I have to go back to thishorror story.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
He was threatening you with a knife.
He was making.
He was making sexual overturesand you ended up reporting it.
Were there sexual acts between?
Is that what you're saying?
That actually that happenedunder duress, but they happened.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Okay, that's the part that I wasn't dead.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
That did happen, and that is why I took 100%
responsibility, because I alsofelt well, I'm the 46 year old
who is supposed to be in charge,okay, so I and I wouldn't allow
myself to, even when I wasreporting, even though she could
tell and she told me, I couldtell that you were being abused.

(46:09):
It was very obvious, by lookingat you, the difference between
how she'd seen me months beforeand how I looked at the time.
It was obvious.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Here's what I want to say from my, because I was
struggling with that piece of it, because I was like, well,
where's the action?
What happened?
So what you're saying is youwere in this mental state
because of the medication thatwas misdiagnosed.
You were in, you were, you werein a, in this state because of

(46:41):
all the things that had happenedwith the previous attempts to
have children.
Then you have this person inyour house and you have a
mixture of you're excited thatyou finally have somebody that
you're going to adopt, andthere's a fear, and your brain
is just not functioning 100%,it's not firing on all cylinders
at this point, and so that'sall of the backdrop for where

(47:05):
you are, where where thesethings would happen.
And eventually you said I gotto get out of this and I had to
figure out, and the only way todo that is to come forward and
talk about what's going on andthat's what.
So now you're.
Now you're in the criminalsystem.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Now you're.
Now you've got to face all theconsequences and penalties of
being in the criminal system.
You also still, I'm sure, havesome feelings, that empathy for
this person who's hurting youbecause he's had such an awful
life and you also now have toadmit to your husband what's
going on.
Oh, so there's a lot of thingsthat are happening for you at

(47:47):
that point.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Yes, and, and you know I was devastated by that.
So my feelings of guilt forwhat was happening to my family
were so crushing I consideredsuicide a couple of times, and
that's not something I wouldever do Because of my
personality.
But I can't say that I didn'tthink about it because I thought
, oh my God, I'm actually goingto make it worse for my son if I

(48:09):
do that.
So I'm not going to do that.
I spent weeks pretty much onthe floor crying.
I was never allowed to sharewith anybody about my attorney
what really happened, and evenwith her I insisted on my
responsibility.
I said as I said.
It was never arrested, I wasnever jailed, and she kept

(48:36):
trying to get the prosecutor todrop it, but he wouldn't because
I was the one who told about it.
The young man said a lot ofthings that implicated himself,
which I knew he would, and thetherapist didn't even want to
report it, but her board toldher she had to, and so in the

(49:02):
end, well and then, when he wasaway from the, they took him out
of our home and he was keptthreatening to break into the
home.
He kept threatening to comeback to our home.
I went and I requested aprotection order and a different
judge told me no way you'reblaming the victim, right?
Even though I had the threatsin writing, they didn't care.
So I never, after making myreport to the therapist his

(49:31):
therapist I never really had anyother conversations with law
enforcement.
They wanted to interview me,they wanted to interview my
family, they want, and I said no, no, and I was told by my
attorney and others you have areally good case.
You'll probably win if you goto trial, because there's all
this evidence to show that notonly were you failed by certain

(49:55):
people which put you in a reallybad space when you brought this
person into your home.
Also, this person, their statedintention was for what happened
to happen and then they wouldnot stop at abusing you to
continue making that happen.
But it didn't matter becausethere was no way I was having

(50:17):
that.
It was already devastating myfamily.
As you know, it was so hard.
I had two sons that lived inthe same town with me.
One son had children, so I havegrandchildren.
I have my autistic son, who isstill living in the home.
He's older but he still livesin the home.

(50:37):
I have a husband with a careerthat's a very prominent person
in the community and I know thatI'm already destroying
everything and I'm like there isno way that you're gonna have
me do a trial.
If you can't get them todismiss the charges, then I will

(50:57):
have to take a plea because Ican't do more damage than I've
already done.
I'm already crushed under whatI've done.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Was it in the paper?

Speaker 4 (51:08):
Yes, it was one article and it was wrong, of
course, of course I mean yeah,that's normal.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
And then, as far as the whole your husband's career,
is it gonna have an impact onthat?

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Ostensibly no.
He had to deal with a littlebit this here and there, but in
the margins he did choose to.
He was always being recruitedbecause he's a rock star and he
decided to take a recruitmentoffer and move to another state.
We actually all moved with himbecause the whole family was

(51:44):
moving and I wasn't gonna beleft behind by myself.
At that time it was already.
I was like nothing.
I was a bag of bones on thefloor, wavering pretty much
Right and trying to be tough andtrying to do what I had to do,
because I was doing it all bymyself.
My ex-husband who's now my ex,but at the time he's like this

(52:06):
is your problem, you handle it,oh God, which had kind of been
his attitude with the young manRight, he's your problem, you
handle it.
Because prior to really gettinghorrible, I had been saying hey
, I need your help with this kidand he's your problem, you
handle it, you handle it.
So I was just doing that, but Iwas a wisp of myself and so I

(52:32):
said no, there will be no trial.
I am not trotting this out tocause any more pain for my
family.
This is bad enough.
And so they.
I had a good attorney and shetalked to them and she's.
Essentially they took it downfrom four first degree charges
to one fourth degree chargewhich is adjudicated as a

(52:55):
misdemeanor.
But I had to serve a felonysentence because in the state
that I was in, which is not thestate I'm in now, I'm in Florida
now, but where I was, that wasthe minimum.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
The so when you're saying the minimum, you mean it
was a mandatory minimum.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Yes, it was a mandatory minimum, even though
it was much lesser than whatthey tried to charge him with.
I mean, it was as least as itcould be actually Right, but I
still had to serve.
The mandatory minimum was afelony consequence.
The therapist that I reportedto, who was his therapist and I

(53:36):
keep on saying that because shewasn't representing me she was
his therapist and she had spenta lot of time with him.
She testified on my behalf atsentencing.
The judge was.
She was very wise, so she readeverything, including his
statements, and she was no fool.

(53:57):
I think that if she could havedismissed it, she would have,
but she couldn't because theprosecutor wouldn't let her, and
so I felt very grateful forthat, because I couldn't say
that.
I was never allowed to say thatRight, I was never, I was, I
just, and I wouldn't allowmyself to say it.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
So we understand, you know, we understand a little
bit about how you got to wherethrough this whole legal system
you got.
So you go through, you have,you have, you plead guilty, you
get the minimum that they'repossibly gonna give you and then
you're placed on the registry.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Right.
For how long?

Speaker 4 (54:40):
10 years 10 years.
So it was.
It was actually 10 yearsprobation and in the state I was
in you have to be on theregistry for the length of your
sentence.
But the judge said to me Idon't really want to give the
sentence to you.
The state mandates I have to.

(55:00):
This is not the sentence Iwould give to you.
I would give you three yearsprobation and not put you on the
registry, but I'm gonna.
I have to give you what I haveto give you.
Come back to me in three yearsand I will take you off
probation.
I can't take you off theregistry until your original
sentence expires because that'sthe state law and in fact she

(55:25):
had the.
She had the state law a littlebit wrong in in sex offenses you
have to serve at least half ofyour probation before you can
come back to the judge and sayplease relieve me of the rest I.
So I learned that I petitionedto get off at five years, which
was the minimum time I had toserve.
She didn't even she didn't evenexpect me to come to the court.

(55:49):
She signed it.
She was waiting.
So I was relieved of probationin five years.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
You were relieved of probation in five years, but you
stayed on the registry.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
And and then you moved to a state where you
typically it's anybody istypically lifetime right.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Yes.
Well they tell you there'sactually a statute that says
that you have an opportunity toappeal and get off at 25 years,
but we're made to sign somethingevery time we register that
says that it's for our lifetime.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
So so right now, it's you know, unless something
changes, you're on lifetimeregistry status for this, and so
the other thing I would I wouldsay is you know, when people
think about what you know andI'm going to use the term we
don't like to use to say sexoffender, but we know the world
says sex offender, sex offender.

(56:46):
When you think of the sexoffender, I'll challenge anybody
who's listening right now tothink if they would ever think
that they should put you withthat label right.
I mean, that's just something,as we're talking about this
story, that to remember thatthere are so many different
stories like yours and so manydifferent stories across the

(57:09):
board that anybody that's forcedto register is not that there
are so many different reasonsand so many different stories
that bring us there.
Amber, you look like you wantto add on.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, I mean I think that, again, this really points
back to hard fast lines in thecriminal legal system.
So we've heard about mandatoryminimums, right.
We've heard about hard fastlines about age, which again not

(57:41):
here to say that a child isable to give consent, and things
like that.
But when you're talking aboutpeople in adolescence and their
ability to commit harm, that isa very real thing, right.
And so we see that the systemnot only criminalizes survivors,

(58:05):
right, because that's what I'mseeing a through line in this
story it also creates aperpetuation of harm, right.
So what that young man neededprior to this ever happening was
more help and different helpand a different space and a

(58:28):
different, you know, differentsupports.
Yes, so he absolutely did Right,and so there were so many
things and the context of thisstory and so many others are
entirely two nuance for a veryadversarial, hard fast lines
system to handle.
So that's why, you know, wereally need to reimagine how we

(58:52):
deal with because this is, youknow, a story having to do with
adoption and having to do withfoster care and all of that, but
it's also sort of in whathappens sometimes within
families.
So this was your family, therewere a lot of things that were
happening that you were doing toprotect your family right, and

(59:16):
there were so many other waysthat it could have been
addressed than thisdisproportionate and irrational
way.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
It's also the story you know the stigma that goes
along with being bipolar andmental illness.
It's a story about a culturethat says dust yourself off and
just keep going and don't deal.
You know, suck it up and moveon right.
Don't deal with grief andtrauma.
Be tougher, you've got to goforward.

(59:48):
It's about you know just how we, what are our expectations of
everybody.
It's about doctors not beingheld responsible for
misprescribing.
It's about you know so that'sin there, you know so there's.
And then a system that says,hey, we've got to deal with this

(01:00:08):
kid who doesn't have a fosterparent and we're going to be
misleading, if not lie, to gethim out of our roles and make it
somebody else's problem.
So there's so many of thesethings came together and you
know, as you're alluding to,we've got to treat people.
We've got to understand andrecognize the humanity of this

(01:00:30):
whole thing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
So so now, so I mean we've covered a lot.
I mean that we could spendprobably the equal amount of
time on registry implications.
I do want to just mention onething that you said before we
started is when we were talkingabout how to even address you
during this podcast.
You know, we said well, do youwant to go by a pseudonym, like

(01:00:58):
you know, or so that we couldjust call you by a different
name during this podcast?
And so you have to think aboutit and say well, you know, part
of my restriction is that, youknow, anytime I use an alias, I
have to report it.
So that's why we made an extrapoint of saying it's not you
who's asking to be referred by adifferent name, but we are

(01:01:20):
going to do that Correct.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
We have chosen to refer to you in a way that feels
comfortable for us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Right, so so it's.
You know you're going to,you're anonymous, but we are
referring to you as D tofacilitate the discussion.
But it's just something thatthe average person is not even
going to be thinking about.
And how many, how many yearshas it been since your arrest?

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
It's been almost 11 years and I remember I wasn't
even arrested and I know, youknow, I want to talk about what
I'm doing now.
I want to talk a little bitabout the impact of the registry
, but I also want I want to do alittle quick epilogue.
So, because I was never allowedto talk to anybody or any kind
of you know, in any kind ofsignificant way about the young

(01:02:11):
man and his level of danger Iguess is the right word and
nobody took me seriously when Idid say anything.
The young man went on to commita violent crime against a woman
for which he was jailed and hadconsequences.
And I truly believe that if thepeople that originally placed

(01:02:35):
him with us, the people that didso so, took it so lightly that
things that were really big redred flags and then who totally
failed him when things didhappen, and then the whole
system that wants to pretendlike that wasn't a dynamic and
won't even allow you to openyour mouth about it, if all of

(01:02:57):
that had not happened, thisyoung man would have got some
help.
I don't know if he wouldn'thave committed that crime.
I can't tell the future.
I think that it would be lesslikely, and so I know I failed
and I have embraced that and I'mdealing with it the
consequences of that everysingle day.
But I really want a message togo out to all these other

(01:03:19):
entities because they failed himand his life is never the same
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
And I think that that's a very important point.
I'm so thankful, dee, for yousharing that, because again,
part of what we're doing here onAmplified Voices is providing a
platform for truth telling andagain, every person has value.

(01:03:49):
People don't start out in lifelike I have an intent to harm
other people, and there are waysto break sexual violence cycles
right, with the right supports,the right tools, and we seem to
keep utilizing the wrong onesand wondering why we're still in

(01:04:10):
the same situation.
So I know that is really hardand it's not a you know widely
accepted that truth tellinghappens in these situations.
So I just want to thank you forhaving the courage to share
that and to acknowledge thatthis young man was failed, you

(01:04:34):
were failed, we were all failedin this situation, and how can
we do better?

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
So thank you.
That's why I'm here.
I also want to say that Irepresent only myself, but I
happen to know because I knowother women who have gotten into
this sort of trouble, this kindof offense, who are forced to
register.
And the dynamic of my story isnot an exception, it is not out

(01:05:05):
of the ordinary.
And I actually know one otherwoman to the whole dynamic
involved, the whole fostersystem.
It was somewhat similar.
Her outcome was a little bitdifferent, but the dynamic of
the woman who is charged with anoffense being abused in the

(01:05:30):
actual offense or leading up tothe offense, during the offense,
et cetera, is actually verycommon.
It seems to be never discussed.
I rarely hear about it.
It's always sensationalizedwhen a woman has one of these
offenses.
I will tell you that how I amtreated by the community at

(01:05:55):
large is they're horrified andthere's a lot of animosity.
I have my own trolls andvigilantes and they're highly,
highly offended that I am awoman who got into that kind of
offense and trouble.
And then the other side of that,which is the complete opposite,

(01:06:18):
is that I get from people whoknow me and then, after I get to
know them, I share with themsome part of my status is they
can't believe it.
They cannot believe that.
They're like no, they're incomplete disbelief and they're
like well, you must be anexception, you're an exception,
not you, not you.
And that's not true either.

(01:06:39):
I am not an exception.
Every single situation, whetherit be a woman or man, is very
unique, just like you said.
And there's so many differentfactors, and most of them aren't
even considered in our system.
And I'm not an exception, and Iwant people to know that.
I mean, I'm not an exceptionfor women, but I'm not an

(01:07:02):
exception for men either.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
No, no.
And the interesting thing thatyou brought up is that you wanna
say that there's an abuser andabused and that the power
dynamic is very simple theabuser has the power, the abuse
doesn't have the power and, likeyou said, life is.
That.
May be true, there's an elementof that.
That's true, absolutely.

(01:07:24):
But then there's other thingsthat are going on where maybe
you're not abused by that person, but you're abused by somebody
else or maybe something.
There are different dynamicsthat play for everybody and for
all these situations, and lifeis not so simple that you could
put things into a nice littlebox and so.
But we do, and the thing thatreally puts things into a box

(01:07:47):
for a lot of people is just thatlabel we talked about sex
offender is you are a sexoffender, which means that you
are a predator, you're evil,you're deviant, you're these
things, and you're forever that.
There is no way that you aresomehow a monster and you're
different.
And so I think that we'retrying to highlight stories like

(01:08:10):
yours to show that it could beyour sister, it could be your
aunt, it could be your neighbor,anybody, right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
And I think you also made an important point that
you're not unique for women andyou're not unique for men,
because I think that there isalso a stigma.
There's a stigma around powerdynamics and again the person
reporting what was happening wasyou, even though there was this

(01:08:45):
, you know, labeled powerdynamic.
But there is also a stigma formen right to report, because
then they're supposed to be likeokay, I'm in a power dynamic,
this person is being aggressivetowards me, you know whatever
and then it becomes acomplicated situation and that's

(01:09:06):
a real thing, right.
Like we can, we cannot say thatit isn't.
It's just not something that istalked about, it's not
something that people arecomfortable with and it
certainly is not accepted in oursociety for a man to say
something horrible is happeningto me, right, and I need help,

(01:09:28):
right.
So I think that all of thosenuances are extremely important.
And again, thank you for forgoing there.
D, if you wouldn't mind, if youcould just briefly share maybe
some of the highlights when youthink about how your life
post-incarceration has beenimpacted by the registry, if you

(01:09:48):
know, you could just give us alittle flavor of that okay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
So first, eight years , terrified, wrapped in a
blanket laying on my sofa, whenI didn't have something specific
I had to be doing or anappointment.
I was afraid to talk to peopleoutside of my home.
I was afraid to pretty much doanything you I had.

(01:10:15):
In one neighborhood.
I had a troll put horriblenotes all over the neighborhood
about me, so I was afraid toeven step outside my door and
walk my dog.
I am a compliant person and Ialso am an over-thinker, and so
I would spend most of my timethinking about ways to be sure

(01:10:37):
that I was being compliant tothe extent that I had anxiety
attacks all the time.
I did try to make something ofmy life and live and be a part
of my family, but that was it.
That was a huge shadow over mylife all the time, and that

(01:10:58):
pretty much changed about threeyears ago when my mother died,
which is a sad thing, except forit was a watershed moment in my
life and I realized life isshort and I didn't want to spend
it being terrified.
But the registry impacts everysingle aspect of your life and

(01:11:20):
even the minutiae, like notbeing able to share with you my
real name or have an alias, I'manonymous because I don't want
to go register another name, andso I decided about three years
ago life short, I'm on to stepon out and I decided to go into

(01:11:41):
advocacy, and so now my life isvery different, but I am still.
Every single part of my life,every tiny little detail of my
life, is prescribed by theregistry where I can live, when
I can travel, where I can go ina county, what county I can go
in and what county I can't go in, every single thing, and I'm

(01:12:01):
always being examined.
Like mentioned, I have mytrolls.
We have vigilantes right in ourneighborhood that are always
after me.
I have to live with thatpressure.
I do walk my dog now.
I do whatever it is I canlegally do.
I step out.
I actually considered using myreal name today, but I didn't,
because there are other peoplein my life and I respect the

(01:12:24):
impact that it has on them andthat's the only reason not to
protect myself.
But the registry is cruel, itis perpetual punishment.
It is not even punishment, it'spersecution.
That is my, my perspective.
It's persecution because wecannot live and and have agency

(01:12:47):
over ourselves because of theregistry how's that?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
there's no right or wrong answers on amplified
voices, but I think it was verycompelling.
So you talked a little bitabout, you know, stepping out in
your life right, walking yourdog, feeling more comfortable in
your own skin, but alsostepping out in advocacy.
Tell us a little bit about whatthat is, because I know that

(01:13:13):
you do some really great workand would love to hear about
that so three years ago, when Ihad my moment, I I was already a
member of the Florida ActionCommittee.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
I had actually become a member at the very beginning
of my probation and the but Iwasn't active and I decided
that's what I wanted to do.
I contacted Anita Killen, whois a committee member, board
board member, and I said Iwanted, I want to be active, and

(01:13:44):
that woman does not miss a beatwhen it's take advantage of
somebody who's ready to becomeactive.
So it was like I know what youcan do.
I started training to be acounty coordinator, who is the
point person for a county.
That quickly turned into beingthe county coordinator for two
counties.
The next thing, you know, I'm aregional coordinator for eight
counties in my state and thoughI that's not just the point

(01:14:06):
person, but I actually go intoall of those counties.
I meet with people face to face.
I talk with them about theimpact of the registry and what
can be done to mitigate it.
Personally, legally, withlitigation, with legislation.
I try to help people, you know,take back their lives, feel

(01:14:27):
empowered.
They need hope, people needhope.
I needed hope and and so I goand do that.
And then that turned into aboard position and now I'm the
advocacy director on the FloridaAction Committee board.
I attend a lot of conferenceswhere you know I get to network
with other people doing advocacywork, which is very, very

(01:14:48):
encouraging and empowering andsupportive to me and
occasionally seen karaoke ordance to it.
Yes, and you know, I'm so gladyou brought that up because when
you live in this status and inthis environment, this crushing
environment, it's very difficultto cut loose.

(01:15:10):
A little bit, at least for me,and I know for a lot of persons
who are forced to register.
They are loath to do that, andthe fact that when I get to go
to conferences with other peoplewho are advocating for the
people on the registry, whetherthey are on the registry or not
it allows me to be a real humanbeing.

(01:15:32):
Yeah, and that's reallyimportant because we're we have
to be on guard all the time, wehave to be vigilant all the time
, we have to be compliant allthe time.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
You cannot make a misstep because it could be the
last one you make so the groupsare involved Florida Action
Committee we're on the board andthen you're also involved in
another group, right?

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
I'm a member of, well , I'm a member of Narsall war,
axol, and then I have a group ofmy own that I started in July
and it's called shine, which isan acronym for sisters healing
injustice, networking forempowerment, and we, within that
, we have a speaking group whichis called voices it's an

(01:16:13):
acronym too, but we won't haveto go through all of that and
it's it's exclusively for womenforced to register.
I, for the last 10 years, fromthe very beginning, I really
realized that women were almostinvisible, women experiencing
this kind of offense and thewhole process.

(01:16:36):
We were invisible.
The laws didn't fit, theconsequences didn't fit, the,
the treatment didn't fit and theassessments don't exist
assessments don't fit, and I wastold repeatedly by officials
and experts well, these werewritten for men, like that was
just going to be okay and I'mlike, but why, I am a woman, why

(01:16:56):
, why haven't you written onefor me?
Well, you're, you'reinsignificant, though that word
was used specifically to meseveral times by experts and
people in authority and I don'treally take kindly to that.
I don't, I don't feelinsignificant, I feel real right
, and so I made mental notesgoing well, going through the

(01:17:19):
process and when I was in myvery long grieving period too,
I'm like there will be a daywhen I do something about this,
and the very first time Iactually stepped out and did
something about it.
The Florida Act Committee goesto the Florida ATSA, which is
the organization for thetherapists and probation

(01:17:40):
officers and, as you can tell, Ilove to talk and I was asked by
a board member to go out andmingle among the forensic
psychologist and the therapistand the probation officers and
talk to them and ask themquestions.
While I'm thinking, opportunityhas just struck and so I

(01:18:00):
started, you know, talking tothem and not telling them that I
was a woman forced to register,yep, just approaching them and
talking and then telling themthat but you learned a lot
before they knew.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I guess I did.
Your status was you're a trojanhorse.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Yes, I am a little trojan horse there.
You know those days right, yeah, we're gonna get it, you're
gonna get to his shirt.
They call you the trojan horsethere you go, one and I, and I
was told by a couple forensicpsychiatrists yeah, one was a
woman how insignificant we wereand I challenged them good, so
that's why we started the groupand it's been amazing that's

(01:18:42):
fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
So we'll get all that into the show notes.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
Amber, you gotta have some final thoughts here yeah,
so I first I want to thank youfor sharing your experience with
the way that our movement isbuilding community, because I
think that is really, reallyimportant to build community,
particularly amongst people whohave been extremely marginalized

(01:19:09):
within the criminal legalreform movements.
Right, and this, the last thingthat I really want to ask you,
because I think that you have alot to share, is, if you had,
you know, one piece of advicefor a person who was beginning a
journey that is similar toyours.
What do you think that might be?

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
never say, as I said to myself more than once, oh,
that I would never do that, thatcould never happen to me, I
would never do that.
That's been said to me and Isaid it, and it's an enormous
mistake because it's not trueand it allows for you to

(01:19:53):
possibly fall into that hole.
So if you realize that thishappens to real people, regular
people, not some stereotypicalboogeyman, and you know that,
then you have allowed in yourmind to go there and say, ah,
this could happen to me, how doI avoid it?

(01:20:13):
How do I avoid missteps?
You will also be more aware ofthe red flags that are flashing
in front of your face.
But if you think you wouldnever do that or that could
never happen to you, you will belike me and you will charge
forward and ignore them because,of course, you don't see the
danger.
And I feel like that is one ofthe most dangerous things a

(01:20:37):
person can say to themselves,and I hear it said all the time
that that is really importantand profound in my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
So thank you so much, jason.
Do you have any last thoughtsbefore we wrap up?

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
well, that's it.
I'm just gonna say, dee, thankyou so much for joining us today
.
You know we had actually met atone of those conferences and
and I know Amber has met youbefore, so but certainly I
didn't know.
You know, when I met you itdidn't know any, any of what you
shared today, because frankly,in the world it shouldn't, it

(01:21:13):
shouldn't matter, right, itshouldn't matter to anybody, so
but but hopefully your storywill touch some lives, whether
people are going through itthemselves and they need and
they're going to get somethingfrom your story, or they know
somebody, or they never reallythought much about it and maybe
you'll change some thoughts forpeople and have a positive

(01:21:34):
impact.
So thank you for being here.
I think it's really important.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
I know you said you haven't really shared your story
much like this, so it's reallyimportant and so and thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you yes, very honored to
have been entrusted with yourstory and we really look forward
to, as you know, we're allmoving forward together, the
changes that are possible andthat we can make together.

(01:22:01):
So thank you again for beinghere today.
D it's been really great.

Speaker 4 (01:22:06):
Thank you too.

Speaker 5 (01:22:07):
I really am honored by the opportunity until next
time, amber we'll see you nexttime you've been listening to
amplified voices, a podcastlistening the experiences of

(01:22:29):
people and families impacted bythe criminal legal system.
For more information, episodesand podcast notes, visit
amplified voices dot show you.