Greg Mingo: Seeing the World Through More than One Pair of Eyes - Season 5 Episode 2

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Life can twist and turn in unexpected ways, as Greg Mingo, a Harlem native, profoundly understands. His story, one of resilience amidst the vibrant yet challenging streets of New York, unfolds as he shares the gravity of his choices and the socioeconomic forces that impacted his life. Our latest episode invites you into an intimate conversation with Mingo, revealing the stark realities youth face, navigating through a world that's often pitted against them, and the consequences that follow.

From a life-altering injury to a wrongful conviction that led to decades of imprisonment, Mingo's personal trials are a testament to the human spirit's capacity for endurance and transformation. His journey through the criminal justice system exposes battles of a legal case that captivated media attention. Yet, amid the harshness of incarceration, Mingo's will to educate himself, advocate for others, and his ultimate triumph in securing clemency with the help of a high profile campaign (#FreeGregMingo), illuminates a path of redemption and action that continues to inspire at 69 years old.

In an age where second chances can be scarce, Mingo's advocacy work shines a beacon on the importance of reform and empathy within the legal system. He shares with listeners the value of the 'clemency collective', a group dedicated to system reform, and invites us all to engage with the transformative potential of individuals having an opportunity to redefine their lives.  Join Amber, Jason and Mingo on Amplified Voices  Mingo's continues to uplift his voice - a rallying cry for change, hope, and understanding.


About Greg Mingo:
Greg Mingo is a clemency grantee who spent over 40 years in prison following a wrongful conviction. He was released in September 2021. Greg has taught the law, communications, domestic violence, and fatherhood.  He is an ambassador for the innocent project. He is a community leader for Releasing Aging People in Prison (RAPP) advocating for parole reform.  He also works with CUNY Law School on clemency, resentencing and parole issues. He co-founded the Clemency Collective to advocate for the granting of clemency on a rolling basis. He is a consultant for In Arm’s Reach a foundation that tutors and mentors the children of incarcerated parents.  Additionally, Greg works with Hudson Link for higher education in prison, volunteering his time to build transitional housing for men and women returning home. Change.org has recognized Greg as one of the top change makers in 2021 and again in 2022. In January, Greg was honored with a proclamation from the New York State Senate for his work to improve opportunities for the wrongly convicted and those who deserve a second chance. Greg is an advocate for social, racial, and criminal justice reform, and so much more.

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Episode Transcript

Intro Speaker (00:00):
Everyone has a voice, a story to tell.
Some are marginalized and muted.
What if there were a way toamplify those stories, to have
conversations with real peoplein real communities, a way to
help them step into the power oftheir lived experience?
Welcome to Amplified Voices, apodcast lifting the experiences

(00:23):
of people and families impactedby the criminal legal system.
Together, we can createpositive change for everyone.

Jason (00:33):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Amplified
Voices.
I'm your host, Jason, here withmy co-host, Amber.
Good morning, Amber.

Amber (00:41):
Good morning Jason.

Jason (00:42):
And Amber.
Today we have Greg Mingo.
He goes by Mingo.
Good morning Mingo.

Mingo (00:49):
Good morning Jason, good morning Amber.

Amber (00:51):
Good morning Mingo.
We're so excited to have youhere today.

Mingo (00:54):
I'm excited to be here.

Jason (00:56):
That's fantastic, and, mingo, please tell us a little
bit about your life before youentered the criminal legal
system and what brought you intoit.

Mingo (01:07):
Well, I grew up in Harlem , new York City, and one of five
children from a single parent,and you know my life was just
like any other kid at that point.
You know, I grew up with theCatholic school for the first
eight years, then I went topublic school, high school to
finish, and then, you know, whenyou live in that type of

(01:29):
environment like Harlem andBrooklyn and the Bronx and
Queens, it's a whole differentkind of culture outside of what
we call normal society.
And so from there, you know, Ididn't really get any real
trouble.
But the fast life draws youit's very seductive, you know,

(01:51):
as opposed to just people havinghabits, about a drug habit or
this habit or that habit, youknow the lifestyle becomes a
habit.
So I was involved in it.

Jason (02:01):
What age are we talking about?

Mingo (02:05):
In my teens.
You know we're talking aboutpossibly 17, 18 years old.

Jason (02:12):
So you're a kid in Harlem , you're going to school.
Were you in a sport?
Did you have any activities?
Was life at home fairly normal?
Did you have older brothers,sisters?

Mingo (02:26):
Yeah, life was fairly normal.
I have two older brothers, Ihave a younger sister and a
younger brother, so it was fiveof us.
I'm the middle child and youknow, I just went through life
every day like you know what youcan do and it was.
You know, I didn't have anyreal issues at home.
My mother worked two jobs so toprovide for us cause she

(02:51):
refused to accept publicassistance.
So she was, you know, she didwhatever she had to do.
What were her jobs?
She worked in a board ofeducation, right.
She worked there for a numberof years and unfortunately, in
1985, while I was incarceratedshe passed.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Yeah, but you know I still keepin touch with her.

(03:11):
So every year of passing Iwrite her a letter and so my
sister has her ashes.
She was cremated.
So every year I write her aletter and I send it to my
sister and have her burn theletter and take the ashes and
mix it with my mother's ashes.
So that was my own personal wayof, you know, being close to

(03:33):
her and being able to talk toher.

Amber (03:35):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So, mango, I want to go backjust a little bit.
You mentioned the fast life andI feel like the fast life might
mean different things todifferent people.
So, could you clarify a littlebit about what you meant about
that?

Mingo (03:51):
Well, growing up I was around a lot of things.
So I eventually grew up and Igot into the marijuana game and
I was selling marijuana.
And then there came a point intime where I got a job.
I worked a number of jobs.
I worked in a dry cleaningstore and eventually I worked at
New Human Services Instituteand that was affiliated with

(04:13):
Queens College andparaprofessional work.
So I did that up until thepoint where I went into the
criminal justice system.
So I've had good jobs and Ijust got drawn into that
lifestyle, as most kids do inthat environment, because you
see you could earn a lot moremoney doing that than you could

(04:33):
in a regular job.
So I sold marijuana for a goodportion of my life as a side job
in addition to working.
I always maintained the job butI had a side hustle of selling
marijuana.

Jason (04:46):
So what years were you?
I mean, how old were you?
You know, from what age to whatage were you selling?

Mingo (04:52):
I'd say from about, I'd say from about 17 years old, you
know, 17, 18,.
I started Then after I wasfinished with school and
everything else.
You know I took on jobs but Ididn't give up the marijuana
business.
It was to me, it was safe, itwasn't as violent and it didn't

(05:14):
have all the other things thatcome with other things like
selling heroin or cocaine.
You know, I looked at it asbeing relatively a safe hustle
and everybody Now it's sort of alegal hustle.

Amber (05:27):
So you know the perceptions about different
different things change overtime.
Time Yep.

Jason (05:34):
So, so, yeah, so you're.
So you're you.
You were going to high, youwent to high school, you did,
you did.
Okay, it sounds like you were.
You got these legitimate jobsand then you had this side
hustle where you're actuallymaking money and it feels pretty
good 17 year old bringing in alittle cash doing something that

(05:55):
everybody around you is doing,Right?
So then what happens at thatpoint?

Mingo (06:01):
So I kept doing that and I maintained the job.
I went out and this was livingby.
Then there came a point in timewhere I decided I wanted to
move out on my own, and I did.
And I did that.
When I was about 18 years old,I went and got my own place, a
little furnished room.
I wanted my own independence.

Jason (06:22):
How far from home.

Mingo (06:24):
It wasn't that far.
I grew up on like 114th Streetand so my first place was like
106th Street, so it reallywasn't that far.

Amber (06:34):
So if I wanted to stop by and to be honest, this was a
while ago, right Like.
So what year are we talking?

Mingo (06:41):
Yeah, we talking about.
Let me see, I was born in 1952.
So we talking about in the 70s,early like 1970, somewhere
right around there.
Yeah, and I continued, and youknow I had a pretty successful
life.
I had a car, I had my own place, and then it came a point in
time where I decided, as yearspassed, that I wanted to change

(07:03):
the scenery.
So I moved out to Queens and Iwas living out there, and that's
where the case is from.
Actually it happened, itoccurred in Queens County and so
I just, you know, went about mynormal life, you know, going
out, hanging out on the weekends, having fun, you know, just
trying to live what I thoughtwas the right kind of lifestyle.

(07:26):
You know, I wasn't into a wholelot of violence or, you know,
carrying guns or weapons.
I didn't feel like I needed itand I thought what I was doing
was relatively safe.
So I moved out to Queens, Istayed there for a while and so
I decided I had enough of Queensand I came back to the city and

(07:46):
moved back to Queens and came apoint in time where I was
arrested, actually in Manhattan,and taken back to Queens.
But I had what I call a fairlygood lifestyle.
I was pretty smart.
I was always pretty smart inschool, in fact.
I attended Fordham Universitywhen I was in the seventh grade
taking college classes.

(08:06):
So two days a week I used toget released from school early
and travel up to FordhamUniversity and take college
classes.
Then, during the summer, I usedto attend summer school, not
because I was failing, but theyhad these special programs where
I could take high schoolcourses while I was still in
grammar school.
So special programs where Icould take high school courses
while I was still in grammarschool.

(08:26):
So during the summer I tookhigh school courses.
During the semester I tookcollege courses.

Jason (08:33):
That's wild, Did you?
I mean, did you enjoy them?

Mingo (08:36):
Yeah yeah.
I maintained a 90-somethingaverage throughout school, so I
was a pretty smart kid.

Amber (08:49):
And so what was driving that?
Is it just something that youwanted to do?
Was education really valued inyour family?
What sort of drove thatparticipation in those extra
things?

Mingo (08:59):
I don't think it was so much valued in my family, but
I've always been drawn toeducation.
I think education is importantbecause it helps you see life
out of more than one pair ofeyes.
You know, if you can grow up inan environment and you've never
went anywhere, done anything,that's what you know, that's to

(09:20):
you, that's your, that is theworld, and so Boys been drawn to
it, you know, and you know giveyou a different perspective.
So I've always been big oneducation and life itself is an
education.
Every day is a learningexperience, you know.
So it's helpful if you canlearn something every day of

(09:42):
your life, because that's alllife is, it's lessons.
So can learn something everyday of your life because that's
all life is.

Jason (09:45):
It's lessons.
So you were 18 years old.
You'd already had thisexperience.
You'd seen the college campuslife a little bit while you were
young and you moved on your own.
You're independent, you'reselling marijuana on the side,
in your side hustle, and you getarrested for marijuana, or is

(10:06):
it something else?

Mingo (10:08):
No, actually I was arrested.
I got arrested back in 1972,and I was sent to Rikers Island
and back then Rikers Island wasa mess.
Back then, back then.

Amber (10:22):
Yeah well, it was a mess.

Mingo (10:24):
It's still, but I know, but I'm just saying it hasn't
changed in a lot of years.
It was a lot more, you know.
So I spent some time there andthe lawyer came, you know, and
back then you wanted, I wantedout, because that was my first
experience.
So I was there for a few monthsand so I was approached with

(10:45):
the idea that I take a plea.
I could be released.
So I said, okay, I'll take theplea.
And I took a plea and forconditional discharge, but there
was things attached to it andso when I go back to court and I
take the plea, they tell me, ohwell, it's a conditional

(11:06):
discharge on the conditions, youleave the country for a year.

Amber (11:10):
I'm sorry what.

Mingo (11:14):
Part of the plea deal which I didn't know initially
when I took the plea was that Iwould plead they would give me
that sentence would be aconditional discharge, and part
of the conditional discharge wasthat I had to leave the country
for a year.

Jason (11:30):
Amber, have you ever heard of this before?

Amber (11:32):
I mean I don't think I have.
I mean I am.
I used to get surprised, but Idon't really.
Well, maybe I obviously wassurprised, but where?
What was the expectation ofwhere you were going to go?
Or I guess they didn't care.

Mingo (11:48):
As long as I left the country for a year.
Right, that was the conditions.

Jason (11:52):
So was there?
I'm sorry, Mingo, was there a?
Was there a racial element tothis?
Was this a white judge?
I mean, what was?

Mingo (12:01):
it was.
It was a white judge, but backthen I don't think I was savvy
enough to fully grasp and see ifthere was racial elements to it
.
I had, you know, I thought itwas just a normal course of
business and so I could havewent anywhere in the country,
anywhere outside of the country,but I had to leave the country
for one year, and if I stayedaway a year I could come back in

(12:25):
a year and then they wouldreduce the charge.
Everything would kind of likego away.
So I agreed to it.
But the stipulation was thisthey didn't release me.
My family had to go, bring myluggage and my plane ticket to
the courthouse.
I got released from thecourthouse, I had to go straight

(12:47):
to the airport and bought aplane, and so that's what I did.
So I went down to Jamaicabecause my family knew some
people there, some cousins orsomething.
So I went down to Jamaica and Istayed there and, honestly, I
got down there.
Back then there was no TV.
I stayed there and, honestly, Igot down there.
Back then there was no TV.
No, tv just came out.
It was one channel and it cameon at 530 and it went off like

(13:12):
830.

Jason (13:13):
Amber, you have a question.

Amber (13:23):
Yeah.
So I'm sorry, I'm just feelingso confused, so there were no
immigration issues.
You were a citizen of theunited states of america exactly
and you took a plea deal andthey said please leave our
country for a year, and thenwe'll talk about it right okay,
I I'm sorry.

Mingo (13:38):
I I thought I didn't get surprised, but here we are, so
thank you for clarifying and you, you know, as years later on
went on, you know, I didn'tthink about it at the time.
I just wanted it out of RikersIsland, so I agreed to it and I
actually left the country.
I went down to Jamaica and Igot there.
Like I said, it was nothing todo, so I stayed in the house

(14:01):
with some people and they workedall day long.
So the only person was therewas the maid, if you want to
call it, or somebody who came in, did the laundry, cleaned the
house, and it was nowhere for meto go.
I didn't have a car, so Ineeded a car to get anywhere.
So I basically just sat aroundand I was bored out of my mind.
And so it came.

(14:22):
I had an open ticket.
That meant that the ticket wasgood.

Jason (14:26):
So, mingo, does Jamaica have any marijuana?

Mingo (14:30):
I don't know.
I wasn't in an area where Ineeded a car to go anywhere.
I didn't know anybody, so I hadno connections out there.

Amber (14:41):
So you know so also to paint the picture.
This is know.
There's one tv.
This is pre-internet, rightyeah, so you don't have a cell
phone to like engage in, likeyour own exploration on youtube,
to learn some new things youknow, whatever, you're just
there.

Mingo (15:02):
I'm just there.

Amber (15:03):
Exiled.
I mean, maybe I'm beingdramatic, but I just can't get
over it, that's why he's still akid.

Jason (15:10):
He's still a child.

Amber (15:11):
Yeah, ok, so please go ahead.

Mingo (15:13):
So I stayed, so I was bored out of my mind.
So it came a point and I saidyou know what I said I can't
deal with this for a year.
So I thought I said I'm comingback to the United States.
So I called, I madereservations to come back
because I had an open ticket andthe ticket was good up for a

(15:35):
year.
So I made reservations and Icalled my family, I said listen,
this is what's going on.
And then I told them what I wasgoing to do.
And then I got off the phoneand I hung up and I took the
phone off the hook so theycouldn't call me back to try to
convince me not to come back.
So I had the people take me tothe airport.
So when I get to the airport,come back.

(15:58):
And I came back and I went homeand I figured if I stayed out
of trouble you know kind of likelived under the radar for the
next year, I would be fine.
And that's what happened.

Jason (16:10):
So I came back.

Mingo (16:11):
Okay, yeah.
So I came back and actually itwas only out there about two
weeks and I came back and then,you know, after the year was up,
I figured I was fine and I justkept moved on with my life,
right, got myself back in this,you know, got a job, got back in

(16:33):
my side hustle, you know, foundme a place to stay in the whole
nine yards and honestly, I hadnever heard of it either.
And years later I challenged itin court because banishment is
not a penal law penalty.
I'm a United States citizen.
There's no grounds for them totell me I had to leave the

(16:54):
country.
So I went back to court, Ichallenged it.
The judge said he believedeverything I said but
unfortunately he was denying mymotion.
And I wrote to the consulate, Iwrote to the airlines, I wrote

(17:16):
to everybody trying to obtaindocuments from back then to
establish my case andunfortunately it was hard to
find documents back from 1972.
Right, so I kind of let it go,and at that point I just went on
about my life.
I didn't give it a secondthought, and so in 1981, my
worst nightmare came true.

Jason (17:36):
So now, now, if you were, it's 10 years later, so you're
like 28, 29?

Mingo (17:44):
28.

Jason (17:45):
Okay, I'm 28 years old, all right, so 28, you never and
you survived, like you werenever drafted for vietnam.
That those years came and went.
It's now the 80s, everybody'sgot big hair and well okay, let
me explain about the drafting.

Mingo (18:03):
Back then everybody was required to register for the
draft.
You had to get a draft card thewhole nine yards.
And actually my brother gotdrafted into the service, into
the Army.
They sent him the token yearsago they send you a token to
take the train and report downand so they drafted him and he

(18:24):
went into the service.
I went in, I applied, and sothey drafted him and he went
into the service.
I went and I applied and no,not then I didn't apply.
But years later, when I went todo something, they asked me why
hadn't I applied for the draft?
And so I told them because atthe time I had a finger
amputated and I had trouble andthe amputation was a funny thing

(18:44):
.
I lost my ring finger on myright hand.
And it was a story where I wasin the neighborhood and some
young kid asked me his ball wasstuck up on the fence.
He said, mister, could you getmy ball?
So I climbed up the fence, gotthe ball a little small ball and
as I was coming down I wasmaybe two feet off the ground
and I jumped down and my ringcaught onto the fence and it

(19:09):
took my finger off, so so youjumped down, but the finger
didn't well, the thing thefinger came down as well with
what it was is the gold ring,and the ring cut into my finger
and took it off.
My body weight whatever theyattached to my body weight
forced it.
But actually I hadn't even feltit.

(19:31):
And then my friend said oh shit, look.
And when I looked and I saw itwas gone, it was actually on the
floor.
That's when the pain came.
And then the young kid he sawit, he screamed and he ran and
took off and left his ball.
So I picked up the finger and Iran to the hospital.

(19:52):
They told me they couldn'treattach it, so they took the
part that came off and took theskin and tried to graft it back
on.
That didn't work out.
So then they eventually cut itoff again and took the skin
graft and tried to graft it backonto my hand, and then that
didn't work out.
So then they just took thewhole thing out.

(20:13):
They took the knuckle, theytook the bone out and everything
all the way down to my wrist.
But you wouldn't even know,most people don't even know.
You can't tell.

Amber (20:23):
Yeah, see, okay, yeah, so mingo is holding up his hand.

Jason (20:28):
He's got, uh, a missing finger, but it looks like a
totally normal hand otherwise.
Yeah, all right so so let's goback.
So now here we are you're 28,29 years, it's the 1980s and
you's going to happen big.

Mingo (20:44):
Right.
So I was in the city andactually I stopped by to visit
my mother because she was livingstill in Harlem, and I stopped
by to see her and somehow I wasthere and I was waiting for
somebody to call me and thephone rings and I pick up the
phone and they say hello, mingo.

(21:05):
I said yeah.
They said look, you don't knowme.
The police is on the way up tothe house.
Get out of the house and hungup the phone.
So I'm like what is going on?
But so a short time later thedoor knocks, officer comes to my
mother, says who is it?
Says the police, says we'relooking for your son.
His girlfriend got hit by a hitand run driver.

(21:26):
She's in the hospital.
She's asking for him and here'sour card, you know, and they
leave.
So my mother's like well, hedoesn't live here.
She leaves.
So she tells me.
So she calls the precinct.
The card calls the precinct andshe's told that oh yeah, the
officers are legit and we'relooking for your son for two

(21:47):
homicides and that the police isoutside the building and we
know he in the apartment and thepolice is on their way over
from Queens to pick him up.
So I'm like what.
So at that point they came, theyknocked on the door, young lady
that was with me.
She opened the door.
Cops came in.
They said which one of y'all is?

(22:08):
Greg Mingo.
Nobody answered and the copsaid let me see your hands.
Oh so, and you know.
At that point I said I am, andthey took me and they arrested
me.
They transported me to Queens,they booked me, told me what I
was charged with, said you know,tried to talk to me.

(22:32):
I said there's nothing to talkabout.
I don't know what you'retalking about.
And so at that point I wasarrested, I was taken to a court
, locked up, no bail, and I wastransported to Rockers Island.
And so I'm there.
At that point I'm trying tofigure things out.
I hired an attorney and he toldme some ridiculous stuff.

(22:57):
So I fired him on the spot.
So I fired him on the spot andhe told me a situation where he

(23:19):
said look, I don't want to talkin the bullpen with other
clients, so I want you to haveyour friend number of them.
And at that point I had anothercourt appearance and so a lawyer
came and said I've beenassigned to represent you.
We're going to start trialMonday.
I said how are you going tostart trial Monday that's a week

(23:40):
from today Charged with adouble homicide?
You're not coming to visit meon Rikers Island, you know
nothing about the case.
How can you do it?
He says well, I can do it.
So at that point went out, I wasable to hire another lawyer.
Lawyer comes, shows up thefollowing Monday, says I've been
retained by the defendant torepresent him, and the judge

(24:03):
says you can represent Mr Mingoat trial starts tomorrow.
He said John, I haven't evenspoken to the client.
She said take it or leave it.
So the case was adjourned.
And at that point, when theycalled me back for the next
court date, the lawyer who I hadretained was on trial in some
other cases.
So I tried to get a one weekadjournment.

(24:23):
They said nope, you're notadjourning it, you're going to
trial, you're going to use thiscourt appointed attorney.
So I went to trial.
I went to trial and I ended upwith a mistrial.
I ended up with a mistrial.
The jury was deadlocked at 11to 1.

(24:47):
The judge instructed the jurynot to say which way they were
going, but it had to have beenin my favor because there was no
evidence in the case andbasically it came down to a guy
who was arrested for shootinghis girlfriend in the head and
had been on the run.
They arrested him and he, whenhe got arrested, he said look, I
have some information.
These guys told me that theydid this crime.

(25:10):
And then somebody else came andsaid one person said that my
co-defendant, who died while hewas in prison, told him that we
committed the crime, andsomebody else said that I told
them.

Jason (25:21):
Got it, got it.
So Amber was trying to ask aquestion, so let's give her a
second.

Amber (25:28):
Yeah.
So I just want to.
First of all, I want toacknowledge that that is a lot
to happen, right, and then Ijust have a couple of clarifying
questions.
So the first thing that reallystruck me when you were sort of
revealing what happened was thisidea that law enforcement came

(25:49):
to your home and said yourgirlfriend's been hit by hit and
run and you're living in aculture and an environment where

(26:26):
you have to check out to makesure that question law
enforcement.
If they came and said somebodythat you love has been struck by
a hit and run, you need to comedown to the station.
So so I think that's prettysignificant.

Mingo (26:35):
The other go ahead no, I was just going to say one of the
reasons why it was somedistrust, because when the
detectives showed up and mymother gave them the name of the
so-called girlfriend and theysaid, yeah, but that wasn't the
girlfriend's name.
So it raises, like you know, ofcourse, yes, you know like

(26:57):
what's going on here.

Amber (27:23):
You know, like what's going on here, Right, but I mean
this just points to the factthat there is some mistrust,
there's some abuse of power incommunities.
There are, you know, a lot ofthings going on where law
enforcement is creating asituation where people do not
trust them, and that exists insome communities and not others,
and that makes me very sad.
So I just wanted to point thatout.
The other you know sort ofthing that, of course, is
striking is this rushing of theprocess, which seems like, you
know, trying to push thingsthrough and get to a trial so
fast that there is no time forany real discussion or

(27:46):
developing of a case and thingslike that.
So you know, that seemed prettysignificant for me.
Jason, you have some questionsor thoughts?

Jason (27:55):
Well, I just wanted to make sure you had an opportunity
to talk.
I want to move the storyforward, though.
So it sounds like in thisparticular case, bingo, there
was no conviction because theycleared you.
There was this mistrial.
Was there another trial, orwere you?

Mingo (28:13):
done at that point.
So basically, at that pointthey declared a mistrial and
they subsequently retried me.
They declared a mistrial andthey subsequently retried me and
on the retrial I was convictedand basically gave them an
opportunity to correct whatever.
They couldn't get done thefirst time, the second time.
So I go to trial and therereally was no evidence in the

(28:36):
case.
I didn't ever believe I wasgoing to be convicted.
I was offered plea deals.
I turned them down.
Both times I said I'm notpleading to anything because I
hadn't ever believe I was goingto be convicted.
I was offered plea deals.
I turned them down.
Both times I said I'm notpleading to anything because I
hadn't done anything.
So I go to trial and I getconvicted.
Later on, when I come back toget sentenced, I'm thinking I'm
facing a sentence of 25 to life.
When I go back to get sentenced, the judge sentenced me to 50

(29:04):
to life.
At that point you're 30.

Jason (29:05):
So 50, 50 to life, 50 years Now in New York at that
time, what is 50 years to lifemean?
It means you have to do 50years before you're eligible to
see the parole board.
So 50 plus about 28 is you'regoing to be do the math 78 years
old before you are eligible forparole, which doesn't guarantee

(29:31):
that you're going to get parole, so 78.
So you're going to go from 28to 78 incarcerated.
So walk us through yourfeelings, walk us through what's
happening and also yourthoughts on how that could
happen.

Mingo (29:47):
I was devastated, to say the least.
When I went into the system,the first thing I did was I
started going to the law libraryevery day.
Like I said, I was always smart, so I was able to adapt and
learn a lot, and that's what Idid.
I spent my time on RikersIsland learning the law.
I became what I thought waspretty good.

(30:07):
I was filing pro se motions onmy own bail applications, filed
a motion In fact I filed amotion to prevent the retrial on
double jeopardy grounds.
I was trying everything I couldbecause I knew I was faced an
uphill battle.
I couldn't believe that Iactually got convicted.
You know, it just seemed likehow could this happen?

(30:27):
And then there came a point intime where somebody came to
visit me.
And when he came to visit me Iasked him.
I said you think I committedthis crime?
And he said well, I don't thinkyou committed the crime, but
maybe you know something aboutit, or you know who did it, or
you have an idea who might havedone it, and maybe you're not
saying anything because you'rehearing to the rule of don't

(30:50):
snitch.
So you know it bothered megreatly.
So after the visit I went backand I was laying on the bed and
I was thinking how could he eventhink that?
How could he even you know whywould he hesitate and believe in
what I said?
And then I had to come to therealization, that perception,

(31:12):
and I thought about.
I said well, if my brother, whoI would consider to be a square
, because back then peopleworked and did the right thing
and raised their family, wasconsidered squares, if he had
got arrested for what I did, thefirst things out of people's
mouth probably would have beenwell, him, I can't believe that,
it doesn't fit him.

(31:32):
But when people heard that Igot arrested, their response
probably was oh, that's too bad.
Big difference in responses.
And that came up and peoplesaid, oh, that's too bad, big
difference in responses.
And that came up and peoplesaid, oh, that's too bad.
Probably because people in theback of their minds realized and
when you live in a fast lifeand live in that lifestyle,
anything's possible, maybe yougot caught up in something.

Amber (31:56):
Do you think that?
Tell us a little bit aboutmedia attention to this.
Do you think that there was anyrole that the media played in
the case To a degree, becauseinitially it wasn't.

Mingo (32:10):
And the whole time I went to trial, both trials, there
was an article in the paperabout me getting arrested.
And then, when I went to trialand after I was convicted the
second trial I went out to thecourtroom for a verdict.
The courtroom was packed and Iwas like where all these people
come from.
And as soon as they announcedthe verdict, courtroom emptied

(32:32):
out and then I realized what itwas.
At the same time that I was ontrial, they had some people on
trial for a cop killing.
They had some people on trialfor a cop killing.

(32:56):
So this whole media was in thecourthouse.
They had, I think, into my caseand you know, like I said, the
courtroom emptied out and thenext morning was in the papers
that I had been convicted andprior to that there was no media
attention at all.
So I think just by them beingthere for the other case, you

(33:18):
know, spilled over the mind andthat's what happened and it
sounds like there was a littlebit of a for that case.

Amber (33:24):
You know, spilled over the mine and that's what
happened, and it sounds likethere was a little bit of a for
that case.
There was a bit of a little bitof a racial focus on that.

Mingo (33:29):
Yeah Well, and what year?
What year are we talking about?
We talking about 1982.

Jason (33:36):
Okay, so just for context , you know we're New York city,
this is.
This is seven years or sobefore the Central Park Five
case, but it's that sameenvironment in New York that
you're dealing with.

Mingo (33:51):
Yeah, Okay, and those cases I mentioned were
high-profile cases becauseobviously it involved the death
of police officers.
Sure.
Right, and so from there I wastransferred and I went upstate.
I went to Sing Sing and Istayed and at that point my
sister was living in the Bronxand so she moved up to Ossining

(34:14):
so she could be close and makevisitation easier.
But then I was subsequentlytransferred and so she stayed
there and raised her family andso, and then from that point I
went.
The first thing I did when Iwent upstate was I enrolled in
college.
It's the very first thing Istarted taking legal classes.

(34:36):
They offered legal paralegalclasses where you had to go six
months, five nights a week,study 21 areas of the law.
So I took it, I passed it andthen I decided to take it again
to make sure I had it down.
So I took it again for anothersix months and passed that.

(34:58):
And then I worked in the prisonsystem and I worked in a.
I did a host of jobs.
I've worked in a prison library.
I've worked, started off as afacility painter.
I was newspaper editor atAttica and Eastern Correctional
Facility.
I've worked in a prison lawlibrary.
Primarily I worked inpre-release, and so the law

(35:19):
library was my thing and I knewthat was my only way out at that
point.

Jason (35:26):
So, before you go too far so you've already mentioned
Rikers, Sing, Sing, Attica.
How often did your home forlack of a better word change,
how often did you have to movewhere you laid your head at
night?

Mingo (35:45):
Well, I spent a couple of years in Sing Sing, then from
Sing Sing and about 85, I wassent to Attica.
I stayed there a couple ofyears.
Then from Attica I wastransferred to Eastern.
I stayed there three years.
Then I was transferred back toAttica and I stayed there three
years.
Then I was transferred back toAttica and I stayed there three
years.
Then I was transferred to GreenHaven and I stayed there 12
years.
Then I was transferred toPalmyra.

(36:07):
I stayed there six years andthen I was transferred to Great
Meadows and I stayed there untilI was released.

Amber (36:14):
So how many years?

Mingo (36:16):
in total, did you end up?
Serving how many?

Amber (36:17):
years in total did you end up serving?

Mingo (36:22):
40 years, one month and 21 days 40 years, one month and
21 days.
21 days, 21 days and how manyminutes?

Jason (36:36):
I didn't count that.

Mingo (36:37):
But wow.
But you know people may say,well damn, you have all that.
So what did you do?
Count the days.
But no, actually I didn't countthe days, but I made the days
count.
I tried to live my life in away where it meant something,
because you inside it's like outof sight, out of mind.

(36:57):
You know it makes you feel likeyou really don't count, like
cares, and for the most partthat's how it felt.
You know, the layers of yourcharacter get peeled away like
you peel an onion and you gothrough this, these emotional
roller coasters.
You know these four walls, it'salmost like they plant
themselves within you and youbecome numb to certain things

(37:21):
and you know just, you exist.
You're not living, you're justexisting.

Jason (37:27):
What changes did you notice over the years?
Did things get better or worse,more crowded?
I mean what?

Mingo (37:35):
The prison system got worse over the years, you know,
and worse all the way around theboard, from the food to the
staff, the attitudes of staff,how people are treated and how
we looked upon as the scum ofthe earth, so to speak.
And it's difficult.
There's a lot of violence inthere.
At times, in fact, the policepromoted a lot of the violence

(37:59):
and create situations forviolence to happen.
And is this an existence that,unless you really had to go
through it, it's hard to reallyput into words, because it's
something that you have toexperience and that's something
that you really don't want toexperience?
You know, if you ask people, alot of people will say well,
experience is the best teacher.

(38:20):
But I disagree.
I think good advice can be anybetter teacher because of things
you don't want to experienceand prison is at the top of the
list.

Jason (38:30):
For sure.

Amber (38:32):
Did you find any sort of rays of light?
People who showed compassion,people that you met,
relationships that you builtthrough the process?

Mingo (38:45):
Yeah, I've had a lot of good relationships with a lot of
people.
You know I had people.
At that point I was still Iconsider myself, kind of young
yet people have been in thereand they kind of like advised
you and pushed you you know wecall them elders and they'll
motivate you to keep your headup and keep pushing and keep
fighting.

(39:05):
And I think I honestly knewthat I could have gotten out,
but I was procedurally barred inthe courts.
I don't know if you know whatprocedurally barred means.
Essentially it means that allyour claims are gone and you
can't re-raise them and can'traise them in the court.
So not only I had issues withthe trial lawyer, but on appeal

(39:30):
the lawyer raised claims that Ipreviously litigated myself for
saying the courts.
And so if you watch TV, if yousee on TV a lawyer says I object
, your Honor.
And if you don't object tosomething that occurs at trial,
you can't raise it on appealbecause it's not preserved for
public review.

(39:51):
Same way, if you do preserveyour issues and you don't raise
them on appeal, you waive themand they're gone forever.
And too much control is givento your lawyers and they get to
say and raise whatever issuesthey feel is appropriate and I
subsequently procedurally barred.

(40:11):
So I never really had an appealto start with and I just kept
fighting.

Jason (40:18):
Yes, a couple of questions Because I want to get
to how you actually ultimatelycame home.
But before we get there, I havea question for you, because
this whole your case right nowis one where you know you say
this is, this was just a badtrial.
You know it was it was and youwere.
You're talking about reasonsthat you, you know they, they

(40:39):
convicted the wrong person, thatsort of thing.
Let's do a pretend.
What if let's say you had beenguilty of this crime, right?
How do you think you'd feelabout the sentence in that case?
Do you think it would have beena fair sentence?
In that case, the punishmentyou got was the right answer to

(41:01):
that type of offense.

Mingo (41:05):
No, I think that you know the sentence that was handed
down was way over the top andthe judge that I was had both
trials in front of was a racist,and I could say that because
it's documented.
Two or three months after I wassentenced there were two other

(41:25):
defendants before this judge andwhile he was on the bench in
the open court, they nevercaught the third suspect in that
case and he told them I knowthere's another nigger in the
woodpile and I want him out.
Is that clear?
Oh my God, this is what he saidfrom the bench.
So the media got hold of thestory.
They published it.
Judges have to retire at theage of 70.

(41:49):
But they allowed three two-yearextensions.
He was on the last year of hislast extension.
He was brought up on chargesand from the Commission on
Judicial Conduct and his defensewas that when he used the
N-word, it wasn't geared towardany people or groups of people.
That was a metaphor that heused to describe a mystery.

Jason (42:13):
Well, that's gross.
So let's take it to like howdid you ultimately come home?
What was involved in that?

Mingo (42:23):
well it had, from what everybody tells me had to do
with who I am and what I didwhile I was inside.
I taught classes inside.
I taught domestic violence,fatherhood communications,
positive thinking, basicadvanced life skills you name it
.
I was doing it.
I take everything that they hadto offer, created a lot of

(42:45):
these programs, in fact, thecurriculum that they use to
teach people the law so they canbe law clerks, to work in the
law library.
I created the curriculum and Itaught the law classes about the
prisons, and so I kept workingand doing that and you know I
helped everybody that came to me.
I tried some sort of way to helpthem and I developed a

(43:07):
reputation, a very goodreputation, as somebody who, you
know, knew what he was doingand wasn't going to, was going
to do what he needed to do tohelp whoever he was helping.
So I kept working and working,and working and there came a
point in time where I filed amotion.
I went to court in 2008.

(43:27):
And the judge denied the motionfor resentencing, arguing that
my sentence was illegal, and thejudge at that point recommended
that I file for clemency basedon the body of work that I've
accomplished over the years.
So after the hearing and I cameback upstate, I did that.
I filed the application.

(43:48):
It was denied.
It's 2008, 2009.
It was denied, so I kind oflike left it alone.
I kept working in the lawlibrary on my case and it came a
point in time and somebody saidwell, try it again.
I said nobody gets clemency.
So in 2016, I filed anotherapplication.

(44:08):
Then in 2017, the prisonfacility came to me and said
that they were instructed byAlbany to submit somebody's name
for clemency and they decidedon me.
So I told them you can go ahead, but I don't have no faith in
it and because nobody gets it.
And he told me I shouldn't feelthat way, and I said, why not?

(44:29):
And they said, well, judithClark got it.
And I thought and I said, wow,they got a point.
You know, judy Clark got it, Imight have a shot.
I don't know if you're familiarwith Judy Clark and the
Brinks-Armond-Carr robbery case.

Amber (44:46):
I'm sure that there's somebody who isn't.

Mingo (44:48):
So if you want to just summarize, supposed to have been
part of this radical group Iforget what particular group it
was and it was a Brinks armoredcar robbery where two police
officers died and one armoredcar driver died.
A group of people were arrestedand charged for the crime and

(45:10):
they were given a sentence of 75years to life.
In, I think, 2016, 2015, 2016,.
Somebody took on her case andapplied for clemency and a
governor reduced her sentencefrom 75 to life to 35 to life.
That made her immediatelyeligible for parole.

(45:30):
Eligible for release or forparole Right.

Amber (45:34):
Mingo, can I just ask a real quick clarifying question
so that those who don't have afull understanding of clemency
and what that is, could you justshare what clemency is?

Mingo (45:47):
Right.
You have clemency and underclemency there's two components
they can grant you a pardon orthey can grant you a sentence.
Commutation Pardons are usuallyreserved for people who have
been home for years and haven'tre-offended.
So say you had a case back 10,15 years ago.
You could apply to thegovernor's office for a pardon

(46:10):
and they could give it to you,and it wipes away your record.
They could do it in anysituation.
The government, the governor,has unchallenged power.

Amber (46:20):
And this is in New York, because every state is different
.

Mingo (46:23):
Yes, Right, it can't be challenged, it's under the
Constitution of the state of NewYork and so but they really
grant anybody that's in prisonpardons say, give them sentence
commutations.
That's in prison pardon, say,give them sentence commutations.
So, like I said, in 2017, theprison put me in for it.
Then 18, 19, 20 came, and thenI had been following the process

(46:46):
and I noticed that there wasthis clinic law clinic CUNY Law
School, Second Look Project.

Jason (46:51):
Hang on, mango.
Before you, you just saidsomething that really triggered
something for me, so you putthis in in 2016, 17, 18, 19,.
You said that very quickly.
Those are years, right, and soI think part of what happens
when you're incarcerated or orinvolved in the criminal legal
system in any way years just goby, and you made a comment

(47:14):
earlier, you can't get time back, and so it's like 16, 17, 18,
you just clicked off a few years, like people had, people got
married in those years, peoplehad babies, people passed away
in those years.
All sorts of things happened inthose years that, in the legal
system, was a blip, but for you,you know, or for the real, for
real time was a long, waslifetime.

(47:36):
So so now it's what year?
Is it?
2018,?

Mingo (47:39):
2020, 2020, 2020.

Jason (47:43):
2020.

Mingo (47:44):
Okay, All right.
So I wrote to this law clinicand I noticed that the people
who had gotten clemencies, thatthey represented most of them
and they had a high use successrate.
So I wrote to the clinic.
They wrote me back saying youknow, there's no guarantee we
can take your case.
You know, stand it, you know.
So I took what I submitted tothe governor's office and I sent

(48:08):
it to them and they wereimpressed by what I sent.
So they agreed to take the case.
So they signed.
What they do is they operatewith no funding.
They use the law students.
So every semester they get 30students in this particular
class and they assign twostudents to each person whose

(48:31):
case they're going to take on,which allows them to take on 15
clemency applications, and theysubmit it.
They do a package, put togethera package and they submit it to
the government's office.
And that's what happened In mycase.
They assigned two students tome.
They came and visited me and wewas putting in the clemency.
In the meantime, my niece andher friends decided that they

(48:54):
was trying to get letters on mybehalf in support of it.
So her and her friends decidedthey want to do more than write
letters.
So they started a social mediacampaign on changeorg.
They created a petition and thegoal was to get a thousand
signatures and we started, wegot the thousand, then it kept

(49:14):
growing and it got to 3,000.
Then a couple of days later itwas at ten thousand.
Then the company changed out,all got involved and because it
had taken off so fast, and theydecided that they wanted to be
involved and they created a tvcommercial and so I happened to

(49:36):
be in, you know inside, and oneday somebody says, calls me and
says yo, you're on TV.
I was like, yeah, okay, youknow, like it was a joke.

Jason (49:46):
Is it before or after George Floyd?

Mingo (49:49):
This is right around that time.
So the climate, the atmosphere,and so I cut the TV on and I
saw the commercial and it likeblew me away.
And then they created abillboard, a moving, a billboard
ad on a truck right when theyhad people speaking about me and
things like that, and then.

(50:11):
So then the petition startedincreasing and growing and
growing and then we got to50,000.
Then we had 100,000.
And we wound up having 145,000people signed the petition to
release me.
Then I was fortunate enough Ihad-.

Jason (50:26):
Did you know?
Did you know?

Mingo (50:29):
Did I know?

Jason (50:30):
Yeah.
Did you know that there wereall these signatures at this
point?
I mean, did you have access towhat was going on or were you?
Did people have to tell you?

Mingo (50:37):
I mean, yeah, I was kept informed by phone calls, you
know, like when I call theywould tell me listen, we got
this many signatures, we gotthis, we got that, and it kind
of raises your hopes Now youstarting to feel better, like I
might have a chance, you know,because hope is.
Hope is the only thing youcling to inside.
You know you.

(50:57):
Hope is the only thing youcling to inside.
You know.

Jason (50:59):
You hope this happens you hope that happens and I think
Like, oh, people are payingattention to me, Like this could
actually happen.

Mingo (51:04):
And I think what spurred it because I had discussions
with them while we strategizedand how to go about this I think
we came to the conclusion atleast I did it in the beginning
is that you know you're knockingon all these doors.
You're At least I did it in thebeginning is that you know you
knocking on all these doors, youtrying this, you trying that,
nothing's working.
And so I came to a point in therealization where I realized

(51:25):
that the doors weren't open.

Amber (51:31):
So I had to build my own door Right.

Mingo (51:33):
So that's what we did through the social media
campaign was to build our owndoor, and it took off.
You know, a lot of people gotinvolved, a lot of people
supported my case after theyfound out the facts of the case
and everything, and I had thishuge outpouring of support and
it was just surreal, you know,because for 40 years I've been

(51:54):
trying to get help and Icouldn't get any.
It felt surreal but it was real, yeah, and it's that.

Amber (52:02):
What I'm hearing is you had some core people who really
cared about you.
That that started to toorganize and bring this together
.

Mingo (52:11):
Yeah yeah, and then you know it, I had some student,
like one student that came in.
He's a movie producer, he wasbeing interviewed about him and
his act as being nominated foran Academy Award and he wore a
free Greg Mingo T-shirt.
Gayle King was interviewing himand that got a lot of airplay

(52:33):
and you know it was just.
All.
This attention came right aboutmy case and about my cause and
you know it raised up my hope.
Are there still?

Jason (52:45):
free Mingo shirts that are available for sale.

Mingo (52:49):
No, we still have some, but we stopped selling them.
So you know, you had people atrallies wearing the shirts.
You had people at ralliesholding up the signs.
If you go to Google and justtype in Greg Mingo, all of that
pops up.
You can watch the videos, thecommercial, everything, and so

(53:10):
that took off and you know Ithanked everybody.
But everybody tells me, you know, this happened because of who
you are, what you're able toaccomplish while you was inside,
but it couldn't have beenpossible without the help from
everybody you know cause I don'tknow 145,000 people.

(53:30):
So to have that number and Ithink that's what spurred
changeorg to get involvedbecause of so many people
started joining in the cause.
And then on August in August of2021, you know Cuomo had been
involved around in that scandaland so he had gave his farewell
speech you know all nine yardsand he had granted some

(53:54):
clemencies and I wasn't in thegroup and he had like a week
left in office and then, out ofyou know, my team made a last
minute push.
Uh, so he had some peoplecontact some people and they
pushed for that last two weeks.
They gave a real strong pushand on the last day in office.

(54:15):
He granted it and ordered merelease.

Jason (54:20):
And how soon, I mean, did you know?

Mingo (54:22):
You only found out after he did that you didn't know it
was coming basically no, Ididn't know it was coming.
A couple of people knew it wascoming, I think people like Amy
Schumer, skyshaka King.
They knew they were told, butthey were told that they
couldn't say anything because itwasn't publicly announced.
My family didn't know and so Icalled home one day and my

(54:46):
sister was acting real strange.
I was like you all right, shewas like you know, she was being
very evasive and said you knowstuff, like you got something
you want to tell me.
And I'm like I don't knownothing I want to tell you.
And then she said you gotclemency.
And I was like I got clemency.
She said I've been here and Isaid where'd you get that from?

(55:08):
She said well, somebody told me.
I said well, who told you?
So in my mind it was just likenah, she's just wishful thinking
, you know.
And so we got off the phone.
Then later on that evening I wasat work in the law library and
a lieutenant came in and lookingaround and he went to the
officer and he pointed to me.

(55:28):
He came to me and he said youstep outside.
So we went in the hallway.
He had a stern face on.
So I said this can't be good.
So he tells me he says are younervous?
I said not particularly.
He said take off your mask.
And then he went in his pocketand pulled out a piece of paper.
So I'm like what's going onhere?

(55:49):
And then he started reading itand saying that I was granted
clemency and I'd be releasednext month, one day next month.
Blah, blah, blah.
And I was passed out and hetold me.
He said you don't look good,lean against the wall.
So I did and I asked him toread it again.

(56:09):
And he read it again and Iasked him if it was real and he
said it's real.
And he took me to the bathroom,told me, put put water on my
face and he walked me back tothe law library.
Someone I went inside officersaid to me he says mingo, what
did you do?
I said nothing and I just wentand sat down and I sat there the
whole night.
They said I just sat there, itwas time to go.

(56:32):
I left, I went back locked inand I still didn't believe it
you know, and I'm sitting inthere, but I couldn't sleep and
I'm saying but what if it's true?
And then in the morningsomebody called me again and
said yo, you're on tv, you're ontv.
And I put the tv on and I sawit was on tv and at that point I
said it is real.

(56:53):
I said, because they can't takethe joke that far.
And you know, and it just just,it just broke me down and how,
and so that was 2021.

Jason (57:04):
How old were you in 2021?
2021, I was 69 69 years, soyou're a 60, so you went in, you
went into the system at 28, 29,29, and you came out at 69.
Yeah, and you're sitting thereand you accomplished some great

(57:25):
things while you incarceratedand now you got this and the
month that you had between whenyou found out and when you left.
What was time like?
Was it fast or slow?

Mingo (57:40):
It was real slow, everything slow everything.
Drug was slow, you know, as thewhole jail knew about it, you
know.
So everybody was congratulatingme and you know, everything
just dragged on.
But I tried to keep a normalroutine that I had fact.
They will pull me up and whyare you going to the yard?
You know stuff is alwayshappening out there.
You shouldn't be going out.

(58:01):
And you know, and I said well,you know, I can't stop living my
life.
You know I've been living allthese years.
So and it just dragged on anddragged on.
It was hard to sleep at thatpoint because you know so many
things that run into your head.
And a couple of days before Iwas to be well, about five days

(58:23):
before I was to be released, Ihad a friend inside.
But let me go back and say thisbefore I continue as dad, the
best day in prison is the lastone for anybody.
But it's followed by a questionwhat do I do with the rest of
my life?
Yeah, so that's my question.
What do I do with the rest ofmy life?

Jason (58:39):
Yeah, so that's my question what is your life like
now?
What are you doing now?
Because now it's a few yearslater.

Mingo (58:47):
Yeah.
So what impacted me is that,like I said, five days before I
came home, I had a friend I knewwho came in when he was 16.
He had been inside 45 years atthat point and he died and I was
very, we was very close to eachother and that helped me decide

(59:08):
that it that it that thatexcuse me for a minute that
helped me decide what I wasgoing to do with the rest of my
life.
So when I came home, I decided Iwas going to be a voice for the
voices.
I was going to help people thatwere in my situation have a

(59:31):
chance to have their life back.
And so that's what I did.
And when I came home, rap I wastalking with Dave, george and
Jose from RAP and they asked meto stay in touch.
And then I contacted them andstarted working with them,
because I believed in what theywere promoting, which was the
bills.

Jason (59:50):
So RAP's a New York organization.
Yeah, We've had a couple ofguests on Amplified Voices in
the past from RAP Teresa andMelissa, so you're our third
right.
So we're very glad to have youand to be able to elevate some

(01:00:11):
of the work that that greatorganization is doing in New
York.

Amber (01:00:15):
Thanks to.

Jason (01:00:15):
Amber for bringing all of that to us.

Amber (01:00:18):
So I want to just take one quick pause before we move
on to honor the people that arestill incarcerated and your
friend that you lost.
I want to just take one minuteto do that and just put in
perspective everything that ittook and it should not have been

(01:00:41):
necessary for someone to get145,000 signatures to, you know,
have a law clinic that wasworking on the clemency project.
All these things that convergedwere like a very spectacular
situation that you know led toyour release, which is an

(01:01:04):
amazing thing.
But what we all need to askourselves is should it really be
that hard for people who aredoing the right thing for so
many years, with egregiouslylong sentences, very
disproportionate, to be released?
So I just wanted to sort of youknow package that a little bit

(01:01:28):
and again appreciate the gravityof how people are passing
behind the walls before I throwit back to you to talk a little
bit more about your process ofcoming out, getting involved,
being really driven by your ownexperiences to do something.

(01:01:49):
So go ahead, greg.

Mingo (01:01:51):
Yeah, and so I got involved with RAP and then I
also got involved with HudsonLink for higher education in
prison.
They operate the collegeprograms and six facilities in
New York state.
I got involved with themhelping to build a housing for
people coming home and then fromthere I was involved with CUNY,

(01:02:13):
the second look project.
The people that helped me comehome to you know the work that
they did, and so now I do that.
I work with Hudson Link, I workwith RAP and I work with CUNY
Law School.
I'm currently employed as asenior advisor for the program
and so I work on clemencyapplications and we sentence

(01:02:37):
emotions and parole issues tohelp bring people home.
That's what I do now, and alsoI do speaking engagements for
the Innocence Project.
You know I go to colleges andhigh schools and businesses,
share my story and, you know,try to get people involved and
because I believe that whethersomebody's innocent or whether

(01:02:59):
somebody's guilty, everybodydeserves a second chance.
I know not to minimize some ofthe harm that has been caused to
people, but people age out ofcrime, they grow up and it's
kind of like to use an exampleyou take seeds and you plant

(01:03:19):
seeds and the seeds developroots and roots turns into a
tree.
A tree develops branches andleaves and if you take care of
the tree, it'll bear fruit.
That analogy as opposed tochange, growth, because I think

(01:03:42):
people can.
Somebody can be a good person,turn into a bad person because
something happened and turnaround and change back into that
same good person theyoriginally was.
So I look, try to look at theevolution of somebody growth as
opposed to just change, and it'simportant.
You, we can't.
I think everybody in lifethere's something that they

(01:04:02):
regretted in their life,something that they wish they
could take back, whether it'scommitting a crime, whether it's
hurting somebody from anemotional or psychological
aspect, something that we wishwe could take back and
unfortunately you can't.
You know, yesterday is yesterday, it's gone forever.
You know what you did, what yousaid.

(01:04:25):
All of that is gone and youcan't really focus too much
about tomorrow because it hasn'tcome.
So you have to live today, andtoday you have a bunch of
amazing people inside prison.
You know you can't live inthere for four decades and not
be touched by it, not have thatuh experience become your

(01:04:47):
community, become your life, andthat's what it's done for me
and I've met a bunch of amazingpeople inside and so that
deserve.
They have committed crimes butthey deserve a second chance.
You know how much is enough.
You know we sentence people inNew York State to ridiculous
sentences.

(01:05:07):
If you could believe this, Ihave somebody, because they
didn't know the law, becausethey was tricked by the system,
that has a sentence of 1,751 anda third years to life.
Wow.
And he was convicted of onehomicide and a separate case of

(01:05:28):
robberies and if you took awaythe 25, the life sentence for
the homicide, he still has 1,726years for some robberies.
It's absurd.
Yeah the whole.

Jason (01:05:44):
Yeah, I mean what you've highlighted a lot already.
You know in terms of the systemand how we treat human beings
and and who gets discarded andwho gets and who gets a chance
to go on.
You know the fist.
The system failed you early on.
You were taking courses atcollege level in high school and
had you had any type ofencouragement from the overall

(01:06:07):
system right to keep going inthat direction, you could have
been doing a lot of thiswonderful work potentially on
the outside versus being putinto this system where you've
done some tremendous thingsright and you've made some
friends.
And now your life is.
You're 69 years old, at a timewhen a lot of people are

(01:06:29):
thinking about retirement andyou're thinking about how do I
help all those people?
And you've taken all of that onand you're carrying the weight.
I mean, I can see it in yourface.
I can see it.
You're carrying the weight ofall those injustices that you've
seen, that you're trying to fixand you're trying to help and
you could only do so much, butyou're certainly it's

(01:06:52):
commendable everything thatyou're doing, and it's an honor
to get to know you and speakwith you today that you're doing
and it's an honor to get toknow you and speak with you
today.

Amber (01:07:05):
I actually have a couple of final questions for you, and
a lot of times when we talk topeople and you know, you've been
doing this work for a littlewhile, so you have a good
understanding but I'd like youto speak to a little bit.
This idea that people have thatwe need to protect the
community from the people whoare inside, and what I have seen
through my own experience andmaybe you can share through

(01:07:26):
yours, is I think it's exactlythe opposite needs people who
have had these experience to bein the community, in this work
in violence, disruption, tellingthese stories in order so that

(01:07:48):
we can, you know, change thetide for people earlier in their
lives.
Would you agree with thatassessment?

Mingo (01:07:55):
Absolutely.
You have people inside thathave done amazing things.
You have people inside thathave bachelor's degrees,
master's degrees.
We're not talking aboutpromoting and asking people who
are in prison, who have donenothing with their life, nothing
to change their life and theyjust, you know, they just there

(01:08:17):
living their lives and doingnothing positive about it.
We're talking about givingpeople an opportunity to have
changed their lives, to havemade that transformation.
One of Muhammad Ali's favoritequotes is that if somebody's at
50, those things the way theydid when they were 20, then
they've wasted 30 years.

(01:08:37):
Those things the way they didwhen they were 20, then they've
wasted 30 years.
We're talking about people whohaven't wasted those years and
who deserve an opportunity tohave that chance and can come
back home and come to theircommunities.
They can put stipulations onpeople, whether it's through
parole, whether it's throughclemency.
We're going to let you go, butthis is what you have to do when
you go home you have to work asa violence interrupter for a

(01:08:59):
year.
You have to do this, you haveto do that.
Those are stipulations thatcould be part of their
conditions of release.
Right, and these are thingsthat people are ready, willing
and able to do.
Most of the people that havegotten clemency have done
amazing things.
You know, in fact, when I camehome.
We created a clemencycollective, and this is a group

(01:09:21):
of about 20 people who have seenclemency over the years, and
all of them are doing amazingthings individually.
So we came up with the ideawell, why not, you know, join
forces and collectively worktowards our goals, because we're
all working for the same goalsat the end of the day, which is

(01:09:42):
change the system, give people,make it fair.
No, what kind of system do wehave where the symbol that
represents justice in thiscountry is a statute of a
blindfolded woman holding anunbalanced scale?
Looking at that, that tells meeverything I need to know about
the criminal justice system thatit's blind to justice and that

(01:10:03):
the scales are always going tobe unbalanced.
And this is what we promote isjustice in this country, which
is really sad.

Amber (01:10:14):
If you were speaking to someone who is at the beginning
of a journey that is similar toyours, in sort of a short couple
of sentences, what advice wouldyou have for?

Mingo (01:10:28):
them To believe that you can make a difference in your
life and other people's lives,to believe that you have to
change the narrative.
You have to look.
I believe that inside of us weall have like this little

(01:10:50):
internal committee comprised ofthree people who we think we are
, because everybody has an imageof who we think we are, think
we are, because everybody has animage of who we think we are,
who other people think we are,because we're always concerned
about how we're seen in otherpeople's eyes and who we truly
are.
How do you get to that point ofdiscovering who you are, who

(01:11:10):
you are, where's your place inthe world?
And you just have to have thedesire.
It's like asking somebody.
I would ask guys inside, why isthere a wall around the prison?
And the average answer is thatso nobody gets let out.
But I would advise them to everstop to think that maybe the
wall is there to see how bad youwant to get out, because if
you're willing to make thedifference in your life, you can

(01:11:33):
make a difference.
It might not happen the way youwant it, but you have to make
changes in your life.
You have to learn how to seelife out of more than one pair
of eyes, otherwise it becomesmeaningless.

Jason (01:11:45):
For a minute there.
I thought his advice was goingto be don't go to Jamaica, but
let's say well, thank Mingo forbeing here.
Amber, any other things youwant to get in quick?

Amber (01:11:56):
No, I just if you wanted to just mention any places that
people could go to eithercontact you or learn more about
the work that you're doing.
If there's a website address oran email address you want to
share, go ahead and share that.

Mingo (01:12:13):
Yeah, I have a.
I have an email.
It's MingosMom, the number oneat gmailcom If they want to
reach me.
Like I said, I work with RAP, Iwork at CUNY Law School and I
work at Hudson Link.
They can go to.
I have an Instagram accountcalled Free Greg Mingo.
Yeah, and so if anybody wantsto get in touch, want to

(01:12:38):
collaborate on some things, I'mall open for it, because I see
that if we're not here on Earthas human beings to help and
uplift and support each other,why the hell do we even exist?

Jason (01:12:51):
Thank you, mingo.
It was awesome to get to knowyou.
Thanks for spending yourSaturday morning with us and
it's really great.
We're looking to collaborate onsome additional work with you.
Thanks for spending yourSaturday morning with us, and
it's really great.
We're looking to collaborate onsome additional work with you
and I'm sure our paths willcross many, many times.

Mingo (01:13:06):
So thank you, I hope so, and thank you for having me and
allowing me the opportunity notjust to share my story but to
try to spread the word forpeople, just to look at things
out of more than one pair ofeyes.
You know, sometimes we haveblinders on and we only see
things the way we want to seethem.
And to have empathy for peopleand to care about each other,

(01:13:31):
you know, in ways that we reallyneed to.

Jason (01:13:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Until next time, Amber.

Amber (01:13:38):
We'll see you next time.

Outro Speaker (01:13:49):
You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a
podcast lifting the experiencesof people and families impacted
by the criminal legal system.
For more information, episodesand podcast notes, visit
AmplifiedVoicesshow.