Gus: A Powerful Community Advocate - Season 5 Episode 7 - Amplified Voices

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a voice, a story to tell.
Some are marginalized and muted.
What if there were a way toamplify those stories, to have
conversations with real peoplein real communities, a way to
help them step into the power oftheir lived experience?
Welcome to Amplified Voices, apodcast lifting the experiences

(00:23):
of people and families impactedby the criminal legal system.
Together, we can createpositive change for everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Amplified
Voices.
I'm your host, jason, here withmy co-host.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Amber.
Good morning Jason.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Amber.
Today we have Gus MarksHamilton, who we've both been
friends with for quite a while.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Gus, we start off the same way.
We're going to start off thesame way we always start off,
and that's by asking you couldyou tell us a little bit about
your life before you entered thecriminal legal system and what
brought you into it?

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Sure, so thanks for having me on.
I grew up in Connecticut.
I grew up in the eastern halfof Connecticut, actually in a
town named Mansfield, which isthe rural part of the state, but
it's also where the Universityof Connecticut is located,
that's the Big Stores campus,sort of the flagship campus for
UConn.
I grew up just sort of in theshadow of the university.

(01:25):
My parents were both publicschool teachers.
My father was an art teacher inWillimantic and my mother was a
music teacher in Willimantic aswell, and I was the eldest in
my family.
Among my siblings.
I have two younger sisters.
My parents have been marriedfor close to 50 years, so we had

(01:45):
a pretty, a very stable family,I thought.
Generally speaking, growing up,my mother had some challenges
in her life.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
But other than that we were.
We are a pretty stable nuclearfamily, solidly middle class.
Are you an artistic guy, or wasit a musical?
Or did you like?
No, I don't want any part ofthis.
Was it a musical or did youlike?
No, I?

Speaker 4 (02:04):
don't want any part of this.
I think I have a greaterappreciation of the arts than I
do a pursuit of it myself.
I know that I'm not aparticularly artistic person in
terms of like creating art, butI certainly do love learning
about it.
I have a lot of appreciationfor artists and the art they can
create appreciation for artistsand the art they can create.

(02:25):
In middle school and highschool I played trombone for
maybe nine or 10 years, which Ienjoyed a lot, but I never had
sort of like the creative partof it.
I enjoyed being part of a band,you know, being sort of like.
Trombones typically are sort ofyou sort of like the foundation
of a band, but you're neverlike the star necessarily of a
concert or musical piece.
You're sort of like thebackbone.

(02:45):
Speak for yourself man.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
That's so funny because Jason is also a trombone
player.
My husband is also a tromboneplayer, so you're speaking to
trombone people, so treadlightly when you say they're not
the most important people inthe room.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
I love playing the trombone.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
You should have heard me play Over the Rainbow in
high school.
That was something.
So you went through normal highschool years right, Went on to
college.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, I was a solitary kid.
When I was growing up I likedto spend time by myself.
I was kind of a shy kid and thefirst time I ever started
getting in trouble with the law,first times I would have
encounters with police officerswhen I was a teenager.
I was a young teenager.
I got arrested for the firsttime when I was 16 years old
after encounters with the policea couple of times over some

(03:33):
stuff that in retrospect seemspretty insignificant, minor
stealing stuff like that, butyou know at the time was a huge
deal and really kind of like wasa big deal in my family and for
me personally.
I would get caught and I wouldbe really humiliated and feel
guilty and embarrassed.
I would get punished in waysthat I thought were significant.
I didn't want to minimize sortof the repercussions that I

(03:56):
would face.
But the first time I gotarrested I was 16 years old and
got put on probation for threeyears Didn't get locked up or
anything you know.
But that was my first sort ofinteraction with the criminal
legal system, was during thatarrest and part of my sentence
was going to a AIC, analternatives to incarceration
program, and when I would I kindof laughed because I would go

(04:21):
to this program and I had to docommunity service in addition to
being in this program for acertain number of hours a week
and I would go there andsometimes there were classes we
would have to attend where wewould learn about addiction
issues or anger management stuff.
That did not appeal to menecessarily in my situation, but
I would be in a class withmaybe a dozen other guys, all

(04:44):
different age ranges I was 16,17 years old but there were guys
in there.
They were in their 50s and 60sand just all over the place and
it seemed kind of likemeaningless, like I would go to
these programs.
Sometimes, if there wasn't aprogram, we'd play pool or we'd
just hang out for like two orthree hours On Saturdays.
Sometimes we would have to doour community service and we'd

(05:07):
go to like a local soup kitchenor a YMCA and we'd clean up the
gym or hand out food supplies ormake deliveries and I enjoyed
doing that.
I thought that actually waskind of meaningful.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Did you determine, like what was driving this, like
why did you steal and what wasgoing on?
I mean, obviously you came froma home, that it wasn't because
you needed to.
You know there wasn't stuff youcouldn't afford, right.
I mean, like what was drivingit?

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yeah, I was very curious kid.
I was a shy kid, so I tended tospend a lot of time by myself
and I was also really curiousabout things, particularly in
retrospect when I think about itrules and I was always curious
about how things operated andthe way that they did and what
were sort of the rules that madethings be this way and how you
could follow the rules.

(05:54):
Or you could also sort of likego around the rules.
You know whether it'ssubverting them or
circumnavigating them, and Iwould sort of think, like you
know, if I see something in astore that I liked but I knew
that I couldn't afford it, butit was something that I wanted,
how could I get it?

Speaker 2 (06:12):
And you were testing boundaries and you were using a
16 year old's brain.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, With 13, 14, 15 years old, this wasn't
something that I could havegotten arrested for.
But I was in school one timeand I was taking a math class
and I knew that the teacher hada had like an instructional
manual that had all the answersto the assignment in that manual
and one day I was strugglingwith an assignment and I stole
the manual and I took it with meand I found the answers or

(06:38):
whatever I needed to completethe assignment, but I got caught
.
The teacher of the classconfronted me in a hallway and
snatched the manual out of myhand.
In retrospect and I kind of seethe journey my life has been on
.
I can certainly see where Ileaned into doing things in a
way that were not always themost straightforward way of
going about trying to get things.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
And so you mentioned the system and it not
necessarily connecting with theclasses.
Having a problem with testingauthority or stealing things is
not necessarily in need of angermanagement or addiction
services or whatever.
So there's that, but you didconnect with the community

(07:18):
service.
How do you think your familiesrespond?
What happened in your familywhen, like this started to
happen?
Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, my parents really struggled with when I
would make a bad decision.
I was their first child, I wasthe eldest child.
You know, I have two youngersisters that I've turned out
really, really well and I thinkmy parents have, you know, just
kind of looked at themselves asif, you know, were there things
that we could have done to makeus make better decisions?
Ultimately, I certainly don'tput that in my parents at all,

(07:51):
but they faced a lot of shameand a lot of responsibility when
I would do something, as Ithink a lot of parents do.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, we hear that a lot on our podcast from parents.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, later in life, my mother had a moment where she
wondered if, when I was aninfant and she was nursing me
and there was an issue withnursing, she used to think that
somehow was that a reason that Iwould later make bad decisions
in my life, 15, 20 years later?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's a lot to carry .
Yeah, I mean, is there anythinganybody could have said or done
to you or with you when youwere at that age that would have
gotten through to you?

Speaker 4 (08:26):
The thing that I have thought about a lot over my
life is that I'm the bestversion of myself when I'm
connected to other people, whenI'm connected to communities,
when I'm invested in the successand the health and the
well-being of other people, andI feel like those people are
then invested in my success andwell-being.

(08:47):
And I mentioned that I was a shyand kind of solitary kid
growing up and I think that'sfine and I like spending time by
myself.
I continue to be an introvertedperson and at the same time,
there is a lot of value in beingin community with other people
and whether it's having rolemodels Like my father was my
hero growing up, but as ateenager my father and I had a

(09:10):
very strained relationship andmaybe having mentors.
I also do very well when I livein structures.
I've noticed that about myself.
I do great when I'm in school.
You know, when I wasincarcerated I did very well
because I do well withstructures, and when I don't
have them and my thoughts go ina whole bunch of directions

(09:31):
without them being channeled ina particular way, those become
the opportunities when Isometimes get into trouble.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, and I had a couple of thoughts as you're
talking.
The first is that if you takeyou know, we typically have one
size fits all responses topeople acting out and doing harm
.
If anybody took the time to sitwith you and say, gus, you know
what's going on here and reallyget to the bottom of it and
help you with those connections,because that community service

(09:59):
was the start of something right.
And what's interesting, asyou're talking, you have people
who know you know you.
You have people who know youknow you.
But the people who are justmeeting you today through this
podcast for the first time aregoing to find out the amount
that you do in the community andthe amount of connections.
Like, if you say, gus, andyou're somebody who works in an
advocacy type space, they'regoing to know exactly who you're

(10:21):
talking about because everybodyknows Gus.
Gus shows up to everything.
Gus, you think community, youthink Gus.
So it's you being connected tothe community and not feeling
that as a young person, whereyou are today versus where you
started, it's just incredible.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think you always hear that question like if you
could go back and do things overagain and, generally speaking,
I'm pretty satisfied with theperson I am now, but I'm aware
that I had to go through a lotof difficult circumstances to
get to where I am now, and whenI think about being a teenager,
I wish I was involved in moregroup activities, like I wish I

(10:59):
joined a sports team when I wasin school.
It could have been track or abaseball team or a football team
.
I wish I'd done something likethat.
I was in band and I reallyenjoyed being part of a larger
system of people that were allcoming together to create music.
I really enjoyed that and Iwish I'd done more of that.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
And I love this conversation because I think
that in my own journey as amother, I've seen a little of
this and that in terms of kidsbeing involved in things, kids
being connected to things thatare meaningful to them, and also
kids stepping a little bitoutside of their comfort zone,

(11:36):
because everybody has their ownpersonality, gus, so you talked
about some of these challengesstarted when you were a teenager
.
So you talked about some ofthese challenges started when
you were a teenager.
Talk a little bit about theprogression.
So you said, ok, I was 16.
I was arrested at that time.
You were put on probation.
What?

Speaker 4 (11:55):
happens next?
I've completed my probation.
You know I had three years Ihad to do.
I was a juvenile, I was 16years old, so my record was
sealed.
So I was fortunate enough thatonce I turned 18 and I completed
my probation, that got sealed.
And it was a thing in the past.
When I got arrested and I wasin probation, my life was in a
crisis.
At that moment I really feltlike things were falling apart

(12:16):
and I was humiliated and I feltawful about what I'd done and
also that I'd been caught, thatI'd been arrested and my family
had to deal with that as well.
One of the things that I didafter being arrested was I got a
job.
I got hired at a Blockbustervideo about 15 minutes away from
my house.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Wow, blockbuster, we're dating ourselves right
here.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
But it was incredibly meaningful to me.
I was a teenager, it was myfirst job, it was my first
paying job and having being ableto go to school and then having
a place outside of school whereI was really not happy about
being in school because otherstudents I knew had been
arrested and that kind ofthere's a certain stigmatization
that I was feeling because ofthat.

(12:59):
But when I would go to work Ikind of flourished there.
You know.
You know I was making money butI was also.
You know I had a purpose andyou know I was part of a team
again and I loved movies.
A lot of movies were veryimportant to me and so I really
enjoyed doing that.
And when I turned 18 and I wentto college in Philadelphia, I
transferred to a store inPhiladelphia.
I really wanted to get awayfrom Connecticut.

(13:21):
I wanted to get away from mytown because of, you know,
wanted to get away fromConnecticut.
I wanted to get away from mytown because of, you know,
having been arrested there.
But I loved the job that I had.
So I was able to kind of takewhat I felt connected to in here
in Connecticut and I was ableto keep that when I went away to
Philadelphia for a year.
I was studying video productionat the time film production
because I wanted to get intomovie making in some way, sort

(13:44):
of like behind the camera,whether it was directing or
writing screenplays or just kindof in the film production area
of it.
But after a year I missedConnecticut and so I ended up
transferring from the school Iwas going to in Philadelphia
back into Connecticut.
I enrolled at UConn, I movedback in with my parents and
returned to the store theBlockbuster that I've been

(14:06):
working with, and went throughthe rest of college.
I lived at home for the firstyear and then I got an apartment
, an off-campus apartment theykind of tied into.
What sort of led me gettinginto more trouble was that I was
working with a guy atBlockbuster who had a scheme for
stealing money from the store.

(14:27):
I'm responsible for what I did,but he had this idea for
stealing money from the storeand I kind of got wrapped into
that, for one thing because Iwanted his friendship.
He was my boss at the time, hewas my supervisor and I wanted
to be friendly with himsupervisor and I wanted to be

(14:48):
friendly with him and I ended upkind of taking this scheme that
he had originated and I reallykind of blew it up where we were
taking quite a bit of money asa young person it felt like it
was quite a bit of money fromthe store and that went on for
about three years, all the waythrough the rest of my time at
UConn.
I graduated from UConn and in2005, we were finally caught by

(15:09):
Blockbuster's loss preventionfolks who were not smart enough
to catch onto this scheme earlyon, but finally, after three or
four years of us doing it, theyfigured it out and they fired us
.
They fired me and two otherpeople that we worked with and
that was something that reallydevastated me.
When I got fired, I fullyrecognized that I deserve to be

(15:29):
fired, like there was no doubtabout that.
But Blockbuster had been thishuge part of my identity.
At the time I'd been atBlockbuster for about seven
years seven and a half years soas a teenager, you know starting
at Blockbuster when it feltlike my life was falling apart
and I really felt like that jobhad saved me in a lot of ways,
you know, all the way throughcollege.

(15:51):
And then when I got fired, itwas like I had this huge void in
my life.
We were fired in October of2005 and warrants weren't issued
for our arrest until, I think,april of the next year.
So there was about a six orseven month period where we
weren't sure if we were going tobe arrested or not and
eventually we all were.
We had separate cases, but allthree of us were arrested.

(16:14):
I was really struggling with howto sort of address not having
that job in my life.
I got another job.
I was bartending at a place butI was really drinking a lot.
I was not communicating how Iwas struggling with other people
.
I had this idea that maybe Icould rob a blockbuster to kind
of address the absence of havingblockbuster in my life, which

(16:36):
was a crazy idea and didn't makeany sense, but without me
talking about it with anotherperson, kind of you know, it
could have been a friend, itcould have been a family member,
it could have been a counselorand this is something I've
thought a lot about withouthaving the ability to sort of
communicate and get feedbackabout what's going on inside my
head.
They snowball and they getbigger and bigger and bigger and

(16:59):
I've often thought that if Icould have mentioned I was
having this idea about robbinganother store and somebody could
have said something as simpleas well that's crazy, right?
It would have been a realitycheck that I could have been
like, oh yeah, that is nuts,like, don't do that.
And you know, who knows whatwould have happened otherwise.

(17:19):
But unfortunately, I had thisidea that grew and grew about
robbing a store and it grew overa matter of maybe four or five
months, particularly after wewere arrested for larceny from
the store and I was living atthe time with my sister and her
boyfriend, who is now mybrother-in-law.
There was a gun that mybrother-in-law had and I had

(17:44):
access to it.
He kept the gun very secure,but I knew how to get to it and
that became the tool that I sawthis robbery as being possible.
So I connected the availabilityof a gun to the ability to rob
the store and eventually grew it, like I said, over the course

(18:05):
of maybe three or four monthsthat this was something that I
could do.
I thought about how I would doit, so I sort of planned it out,
you know, and then eventually,you know, pulled it off in
August of 2006, was immediatelycaught.
I was caught about, you know,nine hours after I did the
robbery, which was right afterthe store had closed Not the

(18:27):
same store that I'd worked in,it was a separate store that I
went to rob.
Incredibly stupid like notthought out in terms of like how
I could do it, but more like interms of like how I could psych
myself up to be able to walkinto a store with a gun and
pretend like I could rob it.
But not in terms of likethinking what would happen next.
And I was caught nine hourslater.

(18:47):
The robbery was like atmidnight.
I was on my way to work around830 the next morning and the
cops pulled me over.
The employees in the store hadknown who I was.
One of the people actually wentto high school with me and
recognized me.
I didn't know who they were,but they knew who I was, so they
told the police and the policecame and got me.
I confessed and got locked upthe same day and spent the next

(19:08):
seven and a half years in prison.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
So it sounds a little bit like a spiral, right For
sure.
So it's like one thing leads toanother and, in the absence, I
think it was really interestingthat you said, had I been
actually like talking orcommunicating to someone, they
would have been like Gus, whatare you thinking?
That doesn't seem like a goodidea.
That doesn't seem like it isgoing to make your life go in an

(19:34):
upward trajectory rather than adownward trajectory.
But I think that this is reallyreally important for people to
understand the importance ofcommunity and connections and
being with other people doingpositive things, Because it's
what I'm hearing is there's alot of positive analytical

(19:56):
thought, extreme intelligence.
Actually, I'm pretty impressedby that and, knowing the person
that I know now, I'm just likewhere could interventions have
happened to make somethingdifferent happen?
You know, then, with theunderstanding that anybody who
makes rationalizations isultimately accountable.

(20:19):
So what are your thoughts on?
You ended up in this downwardspiral.
Thoughts on you ended up inthis downward spiral.
It seems like there was someconnection to being upended by
not being with Blockbusteranymore, which had been such a
big part of your life, and thenyou know feeling angry and
somehow acting out towards thatand then ending up in this
situation.

(20:39):
When the police come and getyou, what are you thinking Like?
Oh, the gig is up.
Like what's going through yourmind.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Wait before you answer that, though, gus.
I just want to underscore andthank you for sharing what
you've shared so far, becauseI've known you for a number of
years and I didn't know thisstory.
I know it's something that youhold in, so I think having you
here talking about it, hopefullythat's part of your healing
journey as well, and I just wantto thank you for being so open

(21:08):
with us.
But now back to Amber'squestion.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
What are you thinking when the police come and get
you?

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Oh, like you kind of just said, that the jig is up.
But I was devastated.
You know I, the police arrestedme.
They held me in a policestation, they questioned me and
during the course of questioningme they were going to send a
SWAT team to my house and mysister or her boyfriend, if they

(21:43):
were there, the SWAT team wasgoing to approach them or they
were going to.
I forget exactly what it was,but the idea of like a SWAT team
telling my sister and herboyfriend to lie down on the
floor because that I can't evenimagine that was the thing that
really made me.
So I immediately notimmediately, but I confessed at
that point and I said okay, thisis where you can find the gun.
And you know I did it and I didit all by myself.

(22:05):
You know my sister and aboyfriend knew nothing about it.
You know the two people that Iused to work told anybody about
my plans to do this, and that'strue.
Everybody that I knew my family, my friends, anybody that I
worked with was shocked that Ihad done this.

(22:27):
It seemed totally out of linewith who they thought I was and
what I was capable of doing.
So there was a lot of shock.
At first there was an inabilityto communicate because I was in
a police station at first andthen I was in county jail in
Hartford and the ability tocommunicate with people was very
limited.
At the very beginning I didn'tbond out.
I had a crazy high bail like$350,000, and I was guilty, you

(22:51):
know.
I knew that I had done what Ihad done and there was no sort
of getting out of it, and so Itook it on.
I felt horrible and I wasdevastated.
I didn't know how much time Iwould be facing and sort of what
the next steps of being lockedup and going to court would look
like.
But I certainly knew that mylife had changed irretrievably
and that whatever was comingnext I was going to have to deal

(23:13):
with as the best I could.
But I knew that whatever mylife had been up until that
point was not going to be thesame moving forward.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Thank you so much for sharing that.
So you end up, you'reincarcerated.
You referred to an extremelyhigh bond you didn't bond out.
So talk a little bit aboutbetween the time that you are
arrested and incarcerated andwhat comes next, that pretrial

(23:42):
period.
Talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Well, you know, I was in my family.
I, you know, my, my father, myparents had never been arrested.
We didn't have any familymembers that had ever kind of
gone through the criminal legalsystem themselves.
So everything that I wasexperiencing for the first time
my family was kind ofexperiencing for the first time
as well Hiring an attorney,going to court, understanding
how to, you know, make phonecalls to somebody.

(24:08):
You know, when I had to call myparents, you know you had to set
up an account that would, youknow, make announcements about.
Oh, you know, you're receivinga phone call from an
incarcerated person.
All of that stuff was somethingthat we had to learn together
and figure out.
I was pre-trial for about twoyears before I finally got
sentenced, and so I gottransferred to a couple of

(24:28):
different facilities.
So when it came to visiting, myparents had to figure out
exactly what the schedule was ata different facility, me
understanding what it was liketo be locked up, understanding
how a correctional facilityfunctioned, what the schedules
would look like and just how tosurvive within a correctional
facility First jails and thenlater prisons after I was
sentenced.
You know that was all somethingthat I had to learn about and

(24:52):
sort of adopt to, and my familywas sort of the same way.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
How many years were you?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
incarcerated.
I was locked up for eight yearsin total, seven and a half
years initially, and then, afterI got released, I got a
violation of my probation.
I had to go back in for sixmonths, but eight years entirely
.
My full sentence, when I once Iwas finally sentenced, was 20
years suspended after nine yearsserved with five years of

(25:18):
probation.
So it was 20 years suspended.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
After nine, after nine.
So that means five years ofprobation, so nine years.
So, according to, so, based onwhat you said, I'm just trying
to break it down into English.
So, gus, you're going to haveto go into prison for nine years
and then you're going to comeout and have probation, and if
you mess up probation, you'regoing to be in for 20.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I have nine years of incarceration to serve and
whether I got parole or I was onprobation, 20 years is my total
sentence and if you take awaythe nine years that I served, I
have 11 years suspended over me.
So after completing that firstpart of my sentence, if I
screwed up or if I got introuble, I could potentially

(26:03):
have 11 years.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So when people say things like, oh, probation, when
you watch on the TV and it'slike, oh, that's no big deal
because you're just checking inwith somebody, A quirky fun
probation officer who's there tohelp, is there to high-five you
you mentioned to us before wejumped on the discussion that
there were some things thathappened regarding law changes

(26:28):
and different things thataffected you while you were in.
Could you go into that now,because I just I'm looking at
the time and I want to make surewe get to all the highlights of
your story sure I was locked up.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
I went in in 2006.
I was sentenced in 2008.
I was eligible for parole afterserving 85% of my sentence, so
I knew vaguely what the timewould look like in terms of when
I would be eligible to getreleased.
In 2011, the state ofConnecticut passed a law that
created something called riskreduction earned credits.
It was called like RREC, and itwas sort of bringing passed a

(26:58):
law that created somethingcalled risk reduction earned
credits.
It was called like RREC, and itwas sort of bringing back a
program that had originallyexisted back in the 80s and 90s
called Good Time, which gavepeople who were sentenced and
incarcerated credit towardsparticipating in programs
staying out of trouble goodbehavior that gave them credit

(27:18):
off the end of their sentence,so it could make their sentences
theoretically shorter.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
And you like structure, so you're going to
participate in all theseprograms.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
After you get sentenced, you gothrough something called
assessment, which is theDepartment of Corrections looks
at you.
They look at the length of yoursentence.
They look at what your needsare Do you have mental health
needs, educational needs,addiction needs, vocational
needs and theoretically placeyou in a facility.
Well, you will get servicesthat will help you get through

(27:47):
your sentence and, ideally, comeout on the other end of your
sentence A rehabilitative person.
It's the corrective part of theDepartment of Corrections and
this good time policy had beeneliminated by the state
legislature back in the 1990s.
So in 2011, the legislaturebrought back a altered version

(28:07):
of that program called riskreduction, earned credits, where
people could potentially get upto five days a month taken off
their sentence for beinginvolved in programs good
behavior following the rules ofthe facility you were in.
When that program became a realthing, a whole bunch of people
that I was locked up with hadtheir sentences suddenly lowered

(28:29):
by a lot, and people realizedit was like an incentive program
.
If I do what I'm supposed to doand I stay out of trouble, I'm
going to get home, I'm going toget released earlier, I'm going
to get my freedom back.
I'm going to be with my familyearlier, and for me personally
it knocked about a year off mysentence If I thought I was
going home in maybe 2015,.
All of a sudden, my date gotbacked up until the end of 2013,

(28:51):
something like that.
So I was when I wasincarcerated.
I was somebody that I stuck tomyself.
I never got in any trouble.
You know, I never got adisciplinary record.
You know, over seven and a halfyears I never got in any kind
of trouble.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, and you said 2015,.
13 versus 15.
And if you think you know, if Iask you know people who are
listening to you, to ourconversation, right, think about
what that.
What were you doing in 2013?
What were you doing and I'm nottalking to you guys, I'm
talking to our listeners right,what were they doing in 2013 and
14?
And imagine having those dayseither given to you or taken

(29:27):
away.
I mean, that's a lot, you know,that's a lot of time.
You know 2013, 14, 15, right Toto have that time given back to
you.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
That is something good and I could see where the
incentive would be hey, let'skeep doing the right thing, and
I just want to highlightsomething that you mentioned.
You said theoretically when youtalked about being assessed and
placed in a facility that wouldmeet your needs.
Can you expound upon why yousaid theoretically?

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Well, yeah, so you know, when you, after you get
sentenced, you get sent toWalker, which is the assessment
facility, and you're there for30 days and that's where they do
this assessment on you, wherethey determine what your needs
are, and then they'll send youto one of the other 15 or so I
think now we have like 12prisons here in Connecticut, but
at the time there were maybe 15or 16 of them and that's where

(30:21):
they figure out okay, where areyou going to go to spend your
time?
You're assigned what's calledan offender accountability plan,
oap, which assigns you certainclasses or programs to take.
For me, they told me I had totake a thinking for change class
.
I had to take an angermanagement class and a class
where I understood the crimesthat I'd committed from the

(30:41):
perspective of my victims.
I say theoretically, because alot of these programs don't
actually exist in the facilitythat you get sent to.
So you know, like the lastprogram I mentioned
understanding my crimes from theperspective of my victims it
was a program called Voices.

(31:04):
You know, to my memory, thatprogram is only available in one
facility throughout the entirestate, you know.
So you had 15 or 16 differentcorrectional facilities.
This program is only availablein one of those facilities, and
part of the idea of goingthrough your offender
accountability program is sothat you make yourself eligible
for parole, so that when yourparole eligibility comes up, you
can stand in front of a boardof pardons.
I've taken my programs, I'vestayed out of trouble, you know.

(31:26):
Please give me an opportunityto get released early, you know,
back into the community.
But then when you want to beable to take the programs and do
the things that your assessmentsays you're supposed to do,
those things aren't actuallyaccessible to you, and what
being locked up is more about isnot treatment and
rehabilitation, it's all aboutincapacitation and simply
boredom, essentially passing thetime, warehousing people until

(31:49):
the end of your sentence comes.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
So what surprised you most like when you arrived
right and spent, you know, thisvery significant amount of time
incarcerated?
What surprised you most about?
I know you said you kept toyourself, but when you looked
around the prison, did you feelsurprised by what you saw?

Speaker 4 (32:13):
I mean, I would say less surprised and more in terms
of like learning what it lookslike.
You know being incarcerated.
You know once you start movingaround, you understand the way
the system works.
So, but on my end it was a lotof learning in terms of like you
know, these are what the rulesare, these are what the
expectations are in terms ofyour behavior.
What I learned most was aboutthe other guys that I was locked

(32:37):
up with.
I did stick to myself, but whenyou're in a block or a unit
with hundreds of other people,you have to live with them and
exist with them.
I lived in a cell with anotherperson, lots of people.
I had dozens and dozens ofcellies over the years and you
would get to know them reallywell and you would get to know
the people that you would eatwith and go to recreation with

(32:58):
and hang out with all the time.
And the big thing that Irealized with it was being
incarcerated.
Since I've been home and beinginvolved in advocacy, I've met
so many people that have beenthrough the criminal legal
system that made bad decisionsand they acknowledge they made
bad decisions and they paid theconsequence for those bad
decisions.
But they are not bad people.

(33:18):
They are incredible people.
They are incredibly intelligentpeople, they are funny people,
they are creative people.
They are people with all thispotential and the potential to
do a lot of good and be really,really valuable, productive
members of our communities.
Yet, you know, when we thinkabout people who are
incarcerated, you know they'recriminals and they're felons,

(33:38):
and there are these people thathave caused wrong in society and
we cast them aside as beingworthless and people that are,
you know, quote unquote bad.
And the huge realization, as Iwent through the criminal legal
system, just the way I thinkabout myself, you know I'm
somebody that's made some baddecisions and done some bad
things that I feel awful about,that's made some bad decisions

(34:01):
and done some bad things that Ifeel awful about.
But that is not indicative ofwho I am and the things that I
can do in my life and that'sbeen the thing that I learned
over and over again is thatpeople are worth so much more
than the worst things thatthey've done.
And I can't think of a singleperson.
But everybody I met were guysthat were just simply trying to
get through the incarceratedportion of their sentence,
thinking about the things thatthey could do when they get home

(34:23):
, whether it's reconnecting withtheir kids or getting a job, so
they can support themselvesrestarting their life in a way
where they could kind of getthrough this chapter of their
life which they felt awful aboutand just wanted to get to the
other side and be able to resumetheir life in a way that was
hopefully going to be prosperousand successful for them.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Thanks, gus.
I really appreciate you sharingthat.
You know you were trying to doprograms.
You had this possibility ofgood time.
Did you take advantage of thisnew legislation that was
available to you?

Speaker 4 (34:56):
Talk a little bit about that was available to you
Talk a little bit about that.
Yeah, so 2011,.
The Connecticut statelegislature passes a bill, the
governor signs into the law,which starts giving people risk
reduction and credits Huge dealfor everybody.
I was in Enfield Correctionalat the time in Enfield,
connecticut.
You know we're trying to followthe news.
We're trying to keep abreast asmuch as we could in terms of,
like, what was going on.
And once the bill was passed,there was some sort of waiting

(35:26):
period.
But then we all got newtimesheets or papers that said
what our sentences were beingchanged to.
And you know, like I said, forme personally, I had almost a
year knocked off my sentence,and not just knocked off the end
of my sentence.
I was eligible for parole at 85percent of my sentence.
So 11 months knocked off of theend of my sentence made my
sentence shorter.
And then the 85% portion whereI was eligible for parole was a
date that was even closer towhere I was at the time in 2011.

(35:49):
And that's what almosteverybody who was locked up was
facing.
So it was a really positivething and people were really
excited about it because thepotential for going home early

(36:12):
was suddenly so much closer, letalone ever incarcerated.
But the following year, in 2013,in response to that awful
shooting, the legislature passedanother bill that was primarily
focused on gun safety and guncontrol and you know the

(36:33):
capacity of gun magazines andall this stuff having to do with
gun possession but also on likethe 100th page of the bill you
know huge, huge, huge bill andin this tiny section, at the
very end, the legislature saidthat for people who are
receiving risk reduction earnedcredits, those risk reduction
earned credits could only applyto the end of the person's

(36:55):
sentence and it could not beapplied to the person's parole
eligibility.
And so what that meant was,whatever your parole date was
when you were originallysentenced would not change.
The end of your sentence mightget shorter because you're
receiving these credits, butyour parole eligibility date
would never change.
It was set in stone.
And so for me, all of a sudden,the parole date that had been

(37:18):
moving up you know, five days amonth or whatever was suddenly
set back.
So my parole date had moved upabout a year and then, after
this bill was passed, caused bysomebody who had never been
incarcerated, that I had noconnection to in any way, my
parole date was suddenly setback again by about a year.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right.
So what did that do to yourmental outlook?

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Oh, it was incredibly stressful, and, again, not just
for me, you know, this was formost of the guys I was locked up
with.
We were kind of being yo-yoedback and forth.
And shortly after thelegislation was passed I
remember this it was one night,a weeknight, where I and five
other guys were called to thevisiting room and there was a
young woman from the Board ofPardons and Parole was there and

(38:02):
we didn't know what was goingon.
But we were sat down and shesaid that because of the
legislation that had just beenpassed, it was changing the way
our eligibility was, and at thetime the Board of Pardons and
Parole was inundated with peoplewho were eligible for parole.
You know, it was not uncommonfor people to miss their parole
eligibility.
There was a date that they weresupposed to see the parole

(38:24):
board and months and months andmonths would go by, if not years
, past that date, because theparole board had so many cases
in front of them they couldnever meet people's dates in a
timely fashion.
So at the time people weremissing their parole dates by
months and months and months.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
So this to underscore that, gus, I mean what you're
saying is legally they wereeligible, but administratively
there was a bottleneck.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
Yeah, right.
So this woman said thatlegislation had been passed and
the Board of Pardons of Parolehad identified a group of people
that if you had a paroleeligibility date less than a
year from your end of sentencedate, the parole board had
determined that they did nothave the capacity to give those

(39:09):
people parole hearings.
It was a small group of people,you know.
At the place I was at, it wasme and five other guys and some
other number of people who werecurrently incarcerated.
The woman suggested that wefind alternative ways of trying
to find our release.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
What does that mean?
She's like just find anotherway, like OK.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
I mean so I had when I've been sentenced in 2008,.
They said you know, do your doyour offender accountability
plan?
You know, take the classes thatwe assigned to you, stay out of
trouble, all with the idea thatat some point in time you will
have an opportunity to sit infront of the board of pardons
and parole and talk about whyyou're eligible for release.
You know you've done the thingsyou're supposed to and you want

(39:52):
to say I'm a rehabilitatedperson, I'm safe to go back into
the community.
And then, after doing all thethings that I felt like I was
supposed to be doing, that waseliminated.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
That was just taken away from me.
So, gus, I think that's reallyimportant, because one of the
things that most people don'trealize unless they're
experiencing it is we have thesesocial contracts right, like,
okay, you're going to besentenced, you're adjudicated.
We have all of this inclinationthat you know it's done fairly.
But time and time again, thesystem changes the goalposts and

(40:26):
people are trying to do theright thing.
That were like what I reallycare about when I get out is to
go commit more crimes.
I want to get out so I can gocommit more crimes.
It's like I want to, you know,see my family.
I want to do something good inthe community.

(40:47):
I want to get more education.
I want to do like.
Those are the things thatpeople are aspiring to do.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
It can be very demotivating when the goalpost
just keeps changing.
What was most infuriating to meabout that was realizing that
the goalposts were changing andwe had no ability to voice the
impact that that was having onour lives.
You know, as incarcerated people, we didn't have the ability to
go to the state capitol andtestify or talk to legislators
about what was going on and howthis was wrong in terms of how

(41:19):
it was impacting not only likemy life and my release date, but
also my family, who wanted meto be back with them and miss
their son, miss their brother,you know, potentially, you know,
miss their, their, their parent, who was locked up.
And I realized that decisionswere being made at the Capitol
in Hartford at this level that Ihad no ability to be a part of

(41:39):
and none of the guys I was withhad the ability to be a part of
too.
Yet they were impacting ourlives.
Decisions were being made, lawswere being passed, policies
were being changed that wereimpacting our lives in good ways
and now in like, reallynegative ways.
There was no one that was sortof speaking up for us.
You know, there was nobody thatwas fighting on our behalf.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
So, if we go to like this film analogy, this is your
origin story and this is themoment in that movie where Gus
is hit by this bolt of lightningthat turns him into the Gus we
know today.
Right, yeah.
You've got that spark.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
I would see things on the news where they would talk
about you know, whether it wasthis bill being passed or just
other things where they talkabout people who are
incarcerated, and it used tolike it would infuriate me when
you'd hear the language thatpeople would use.
You know much different now,you know.
10, 12 years later, whatever itis, you know, I think there's
certainly in the media.
There's a greater awareness ofthe idea that we want to use

(42:36):
people first language when we'retalking about people involved
in the criminal legal system.
That was totally absent.
You know we are all you know.
We're criminals, we'reoffenders.
So that used to drive me crazy.
And then the policy side of ittoo, you know not having people
that were directly impacted bylegislation that was being
passed, being involved in thediscussions or the negotiations

(42:56):
or whatever around that, youknow you felt very cut off from
things that were impacting youin incredibly real ways.
So, yeah, that did sort ofbecome my activation point in
2013.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
And so, when you have this revelation, when this
deeply impacted you in thegoalposts change.
How do you move fromincarceration and this sort of
activation to being released?

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Tell us briefly about that talking about the
unfairness of this situation, ofhow policies were being changed

(43:43):
that had nothing to do withwhat we were doing, but were
changing the way our sentencingwas happening, even though we
were doing everything we weresupposed to be doing.
So I just started churning outletters to folks.
I don't know if any of thosefolks ever got those letters.
I never got responses to any ofthem.
But I also started writing tohalfway houses too, because I
realized that, even though I wasnot eligible for parole, you
become eligible for a halfwayhouse at some number of months

(44:04):
before your end of sentence date.
So I did become eligible to bein a halfway house and they tell
you the addresses of halfwayhouses all over the state.
So I also started writingletters asking if they had an
available bed.
Would they please consider me?
And so I was eventuallyaccepted into a work release
program at a halfway house inHartford While I was
incarcerated.

(44:24):
I came back from dinner onenight and got called down to the
property room.
I had no idea what was going on.
To get called down there Ifyou're picking up a book, or
maybe you're sending some stuffhome, or something like that.
I went down there and the COtold me that I was going to a
halfway house in the morning andI needed to pack my stuff up
and bring them down In themorning.
In the morning, yep.

(44:44):
So I came back from dinneraround like five o'clock and I
got called down to the propertyroom and I'd been locked up at
that point for like seven and ahalf years and no idea, because
you know, when you write halfwayhouses they don't respond to
you.
So at that point I was reallyjust writing letters because I
felt like I needed to dosomething, in the same way that

(45:05):
I was writing, you know, electedfolks.
I was so frustrated I wastrying to do something to
address that and not thinkingnecessarily I was going to get
at any response, but I just Ineeded to like do something.
I had lost my ability to beeligible for parole.
All I was going to do otherwisewas just wait until my sentence
was over.
How did you sleep that night?

(45:26):
I did not sleep.
I came down there.
The CO told me you're leavingin the morning, go pack your
property and bring it down to us.
I didn't believe him at first.
I was like you cannot beserious.
I went back to my unit.
I told the guy that I wasliving with at the time.
I told the folks I'd been inthat facility for about four
years, so I knew a lot of peoplein that facility and a lot of
relationships.
So I had to tell people.

(45:46):
I called my family, I said Idon't know where I'm going, but
they just told me that I'mleaving in the morning.
We'd have to figure out thenext day where I was at.
I was totally unexpected, didnot sleep, you know, about two
o'clock in the morning I gotsent down to a like sort of the
way it's like a visiting, it'slike the visiting area.
And then eventually somebodycame and got me and they drove
me the following morning to ahalfway house in Hartford and

(46:09):
all of a sudden I was notincarcerated anymore and I ended
up spending the next eightmonths at the halfway house.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
And I mean this just seemed like just the idea that
out of the blue well, not out ofthe blue you're writing letters
, but like you said, I can onlyimagine.
Sometimes, even in advocacy,we're like, are we screaming
into the void?
Like, does anybody hear us?
And then you know, somethingwonderful happens.
So you know, the water on theboulder, sort of thing, like
you're dripping, dripping,dripping, and then you're like,

(46:36):
oh wait, dripping, dripping,dripping.
And then you're like, oh wait.
But oftentimes I've heardpeople talk about a little
bittersweet right, because it'slike now you have to go tell all
these people who are notleaving that you're leaving and
you're feeling this joy, but youalso have all these
relationships.
Was that true for you?

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Oh yeah, absolutely yeah.
You know, and I'd experiencedto a lot of folks that I got to
know really well too when theyleft.
You know that would bebittersweet in terms of like
being thrilled that they werebeing able to leave and also
like the realization that you'relosing that relationship, and
then also you reflect it back onyourself too.
You know you're, as you know,as happy as you are that that

(47:11):
person is able to go home.
You think about your ownsituation.
You think about how much timeyou have to wait before you
maybe be able to go homeyourself too.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
And each time the dynamic of your life changes a
little bit right.
Every time somebody leaves,your routine might be a little
different.
Something you're doing so whenyou're in the halfway house.
Are you then at that pointseeing an officer for like, is
there a parole officer orprobation officer, or is the
halfway house just yourobligation at that point?

Speaker 4 (47:41):
I was in a work release program.
There was a parole officerassigned to the halfway house,
but not somebody that I saw on aregular basis.
The people you interact withare the staff at the halfway
house, so there's a case managerand there's residential, but
the folks that are managing thehalfway house letting people in
and out of the building, makingsure you have food, filling out
your passes, things like that.

(48:02):
I got a job working in arestaurant about a month after I
got to the halfway house, so Istarted.
That was something that wasmade a big deal to me, being
able to work and have a job andfeeling like I was sort of
transitioning back into societyin terms of having a function.
Getting that job was a hugedeal for me, and then, as I I
was in the halfway house forabout eight months, and the

(48:22):
first couple of months it wasthrilling to be outside of
prison.
You know, being back inHartford, being able to go out
and wear regular clothes andwear prison clothes and being
able to see my family a littlebit.
You know that that was huge.
After being there for about sixor seven months, though, it
became incredibly frustrating,because you're in this halfway

(48:45):
setting where you know you're,there's all these restrictions
and limitations on your movementand what you're allowed to do,
and everything from.
You can't just walk out thedoor.
You know you have to have apass and they have to know where
you're going and you can onlyhave so much money on you and
you have to.
You're paying rent to thisplace.
You know you have to have apass and they have to know where
you're going and you can onlyhave so much money on you and
you have to.
You're paying rent to thisplace.
You know you're paying aportion of your paycheck but
you're not allowed to bring foodinto the building and you know

(49:06):
all these, these things thateventually, at the beginning it
feels great because you haveyour freedom, but you don't
really have your freedom and itactually feels kind of
suffocating, obeying all therules.
You are supposed to becomeeligible for something called
furloughs.
Furloughs gives you the abilityto spend time with your family.
You earn it over time.
Maybe you can get two hours andthen four hours and then maybe

(49:28):
you can do it overnight withyour family.
Then maybe you get a weekendwith your family.
And I was eligible for those,but they had to get signed off
by a parole officer or someone,and I would apply for these
things over and over and overagain and just never get them,
and it would drive me nutsbecause once again, I'm doing
the things that I'm supposed tobe doing, but the system is not

(49:51):
responding to me in a way thatyou know, rewards you or not
rewards you, but acknowledgeslike you have done these things,
you have earned these things.
So this is the accountabilityfor you doing well in your good
behavior.
And I just want to say one otherthing that was that truly, that
made it also really difficultto be at the halfway house is
I'd met a guy who I was livingwith we shared a room together

(50:13):
who I became very close to.
Guy's name was Jeremy, andJeremy was somebody that was in
recovery.
He had also been locked up fora number of years and had a
young son, and his son had beenborn while he was incarcerated
and he was slowly starting toget to know his son as he was in
the halfway house, because hecould finally start to see his
son on a pretty regular basis.

(50:34):
His mother was bringing his sonto the halfway house so they
could spend time together.
But Jeremy, jeremy was somebodythat, like I said, was in
recovery and he was probably themost successful person that was
living in the halfway house.
He was somebody that had beenable to get his license restored
.
So he was working for a companythat did like chimney repair
and he was able to drive a truckaround the state as long as he

(50:56):
came back to the halfway housein the evening.
And that was like unheard ofthe idea that somebody could
have a license and could drive avehicle as part of this work
release program.
It was something that neverhappened and I think some of the
staff took Jeremy to theCapitol at one point to go to
some sort of reception becauseJeremy was doing so well.
And then Jeremy left on a Fridaywhen he was allowed to go home.

(51:18):
His mother came to I was on aFriday morning early in the
morning and on Sunday night Iwas at work and somebody from
the halfway house called me andsaid that Jeremy had OD'd over
the weekend and was in a coma atHartford Hospital and a couple

(51:38):
of days after that he passedaway together with her.
The Friday night he left in themorning.
He got together with the motherof his son.
They got a hotel room and heOD'd and the mother of his kid
actually got arrested formanslaughter for providing the
drugs that he OD'd on he had notused in forever, so his

(52:00):
tolerance was really low.
She did not OD, but she gotarrested for manslaughter.
Terrible situation I was, andwhat I particularly thought
about was their son.
So you had the son who was likemaybe three or four years old,
father's passed away, mother'sarrested for the father's death.

(52:20):
I'm living in the same roomwhere this guy was just with me
a couple of days before andtalking about, you know, wanting
to reconnect with his son andhow he's so excited about
leaving the halfway house and hehad been doing so well when he
was there.
Just a terrible, terrible thingthat happened and he was a guy

(52:41):
that I think had the potentialto do really well and I don't
know what kind of interventioncould have changed that
situation.
Sometimes there's nothing thatcan happen, but there's also
sometimes where people needbetter services and better
supports and you know anopportunity for somebody to do
really well because you can seethey have the potential to be a
great father and a great, youknow, a productive person, and

(53:03):
obviously he wasn't.
You know this is a guy thatwasn't trying to.
You know, he didn't have adeath wish or anything.
Yeah, gus.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
I'm sorry you went through that.
You know, Amber, as Gus istelling us this story, I'm just
thinking about how he you knowthe experiences that he's been
through and the way he's able tojust observe everything,
internalize it and then share it, which makes him such a
wonderful advocate for so manyother people, because he can
remember, he can recall thesestories, he's had these life

(53:29):
experiences.
I'm kind of thinking we need tolike have a Gus series, because
we have so much to cover and Iwant to make sure that we cover
the stories that he has with theBoard of Pardons and Parole.
We touched on his firstexperience with them while he
was incarcerated and I knowthere's a couple more.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
I want to just take a moment to honor Jeremy and to
thank you, gus, for sharing thatstory, and I think it does
really illustrate how we need tobe paying attention to all of
the supports that are needed,because there were some supports
and then after that, if youwant to call a halfway house

(54:10):
support, but who didn't havesupport was the mother Right,
and so we have to look at all ofthose those things.
I do want to talk about pardonsand paroles and I know that
we're getting short on time andalso we definitely want to talk
about like what you're doing now.
So, also, we definitely want totalk about like what you're
doing now.
So after you, you know you werein that period of like being

(54:31):
released from the halfway house.
Finally, which seems towardsthe end, was like you were
really ready for.
Is there anything in reentry,just real quick, that you wanted
to cover before we sort of moveahead from that?

Speaker 4 (54:44):
I left the halfway house after about eight months
and I was on probation at thatpoint and I spent the next five
years on probation.
There were a lot of things thatI could say that was
frustrating about being onprobation and also felt kind of
meaningless and did not help mein any way in terms of helping
me transition out ofincarceration back into the
community and hopefully be apositive person.
The same way that I think aboutbeing incarcerated, I'm not

(55:06):
somebody who thinks that thereis a usefulness to prisons and
jails.
I think that they tend to harmpeople far more than they help
anybody and that's speaking verygenerally.
But I think prisons and jailscause a lot of harm to people
and rarely do people come out ofincarceration as better
versions of themselves ofthemselves.

(55:30):
But I do think that when peoplehave opportunities to work on
themselves and get healthier andaddress some of the things that
might be challenging them, theycan become better people.
And sometimes those settingsmight be in a prison or a jail,
but it's not because thosesettings existed.
It's because of how theyaddressed what was going on
themselves.
And when you hear people talkabout how they got smarter or
they got healthier while they'reincarcerated.

(55:51):
Typically that's because ofthings they did for themselves,
or maybe they had assistancefrom volunteers or they had
family support.
It's rarely anything that camefrom the Department of
Corrections.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
It was in spite of the system, rather than because
of the system.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Yes, and when I was on probation, it was very much
the same way, where nothingprobation gave me was beneficial
and it was all stuff that I hadto do on my own.
And, if anything, probation putup more restrictions and
barriers in terms of me movingforward with my life than they
did in terms of helping me out.
And there were a lot of timeswhen I was on probation where it

(56:26):
was kind of infuriating becauseof you know, whether it was
like the way they talk to you orthe expectations they would put
on you when you would go tocheck in, maybe to tie this into
applying for a pardon.
The state of Connecticutcreated these things called
certificates of employability atone point, which the idea was
to help people get employment.
You know, the state ofConnecticut, there was like an

(56:48):
application you would fill outand the state of Connecticut
would, if you were approved,give you a certificate that said
you know, we think you could bepotentially be a good employee.
And when those things firstrolled out in like 2015, I was
one of the first people thatapplied for it.
The probation office that I wasin had no clue about what the
things were.

(57:08):
The probation officer had noidea how to help me get one.
The supervisor did notunderstand how to fill out an
application.
They were just they didn'tunderstand what they were In
part that's you know brand newprogram, but it was kind of
crazy to me that I knew moreabout it than they did.
I bounced around when I was inprobation in Manchester and New

(57:30):
London and in New Britain Iended up meeting with somebody
at the Farmington police stationfor about the last year that I
was on probation.
I bounced around all over theplace when five years of being
on probation I probably had like30 different probation officers
.
You know I met a lot of times.
I would meet somebody for asingle time and the next time I
would have to check in I'd haveI'd be assigned to somebody else

(57:52):
.
I would be assigned to peoplethat like, were I was not, like
they had specialties in likemental health maybe or some
other area and I didn't fit, andthey would be like I don't
understand why you're on mycaseload, I'm going to reassign
you to somebody else.
Then maybe I would see somebodyfor like a period of time and
then you get to know them andthen you go in and that person's
gone and you've been reassignedto somebody else and so you're

(58:13):
kind of like starting all overagain.
So they didn't know what yourjob were, they didn't know what
your address was, they didn'tknow anything about you and
they'd be instantly suspicious.
Because the idea is like, well,you're, you're guilty of
something in order to be inprobation to begin with, so that
you know are you, are you lyingto me about something?
You're not trustworthy, likeyou would have to rebuild that
relationship all over again.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
It was not a humanizing situation.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
It was a frustrating time period and it felt like it
was more about keeping controlof me.
We're not going to keep controlof me, but just like making my
life more difficult rather thantrying to empower me.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
I know you have some degrees.
How did those happen?
Inside, outside, a little bitof both.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Well, when I had an opportunity, when I left the
halfway house I had a jobalready.
I was working in a restaurantand I'd been promoted in the
restaurant.
But I realized quickly that therestaurant I was working in
there was a pretty low ceilingin terms of what I could
potentially grow into.
There wasn't a lot of careergrowth going on.
I had a bachelor's degreebefore I got locked up.
I had a bachelor's degree inEnglish from the University of

(59:13):
Connecticut and I was interestedin other opportunities, whether
I could get into a job wherethere was career growth or I
could earn more money.
I met with somebody from theDepartment of Labor.
There was the American JobCenter in Hartford had a job
program and I met with somebodyand I did a job evaluation where
they're trying to figure outmaybe what kind of career fields
you could go into.
And I learned very quickly thatas somebody living with a

(59:35):
felony conviction, you can't gointo the healthcare industry,
you can't go into the insuranceindustry, you can't go into the
financial industry, theeducational sect, all these
things are kind of cut off toyou if you're somebody with a
felony conviction.
I remember the guy that I metwith said, well, would you be
interested in.
How do you feel about diggingsnow?
And that was the one jobopportunity he had was during

(59:57):
the wintertime.
You know he'd go out and youcould help, you know, clear off
sidewalks and stuff, which I'mnot above doing.
You know, I spent years andyears mopping floors and
cleaning bathrooms and stufflike that, but I was looking for
something that was actually acareer opportunity for me.
So I started looking around,trying to think, okay, what else
could I potentially do?
And I heard, you know, I wasgoing to career fairs, open

(01:00:20):
houses, and I went to an openhouse at the UConn School of
Social Work because I thoughtmaybe I need to go back to
school and try to get a.
You know, I was actually at thetime.
I was thinking, you know, isthere some sort of vocational
training that I need to do?
Do I need to learn how to getinto the construction field or
learn a trade or something likethat, because those tend to be a
little bit more open to peoplewith criminal records.

(01:00:40):
I went to an open house at theUConn School of Social Work
because I heard about somethingthey had that had to do with
more political social work,which was for social workers
that wanted to work notnecessarily at a clinical level
where you're working with, likeindividuals or families, but
actually working on more of amacro level, working on sort of
policy and legislation.

(01:01:01):
And that just kind of clickedwith me because I thought of
some of the experiences I hadwhen I'm incarcerated and I went
to an open house.
I met with a couple of UConnprofessors.
I talked to them If I'msomebody with a criminal record,
if I applied to a graduateprogram here, would you guys
actually accept me?
Would I be allowed into theschool?
And to their credit, they werelike yes, apply.

(01:01:23):
I applied, they accepted me.
I went through the program andtwo years later I graduated with
a master's degree in socialwork.
And when I was in the program Ihad a lot of great
opportunities.
I had an opportunity to kind oflearn more about policymaking.
I had to meet a lot of peoplethat worked in the field
commissioners, deputycommissioners, academics and

(01:01:44):
that became sort of the openingthe door to the work that I do
now in advocacy around trying tocreate a better, more fair
criminal legal system.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
And then here we are.
You know you're moving along,the pandemic kind of hits, and
then you're doing work with theACLU which we'll talk about in a
second but you apply for apardon.
What made you decide to go forthe pardon and what was that
process for you?

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Well, you know that, going all the way back until
when you go through assessment,after you get sentenced.
You know, for me it was 2008.
They tell you, they give you abrochure that has to do with
your eligibility for parole atsome point, and they also say
that you could become eligiblefor pardon at some point, and at
that point it's just, you know,it's like in fairyland you
never think that that's actualpossibility.

(01:02:32):
The Board of Pardons of Parolehas gone through a lot of
changes that I've seen, thatI've experienced since I've been
a part of this system, and theyhave gone from issuing very,
very, very low numbers ofpardons to people.
It was almost something thatyou know was kind of an
impossibility I didn't knowanybody who ever received a
pardon from the state ofConnecticut To the Board of

(01:02:53):
Pardons and Parole actuallyopening up and feeling like we
need to look at our process andwe need to look at how we are
evaluating people and how we'reissuing pardons.
And the board had actually comearound and had become a lot
more I'm not sure what the rightword is, but they'd started to
grant pardons to people on amuch higher rate than they had
in the past.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
So they started doing the job that they were charged
to do, Like okay.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Partly that's in response to work that a lot of
folks like you, amber, andmyself to a degree have been
involved in, where we've beenreally saying we know we need to
change the way the criminallegal system works because
people that are living withcriminal records are not
becoming productive members ofour society.
The recidivism rate isshockingly, terribly high.
People can't get jobs, peoplecan't find housing, people are

(01:03:39):
really struggling and sufferingbecause of this criminal record
that is hanging over them, andthe Board of Pardons of Parole
had this realization that youknow we have an ability here by
granting people pardons, wherewe can help people be successful
in their lives by giving themthat.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
And when the clean slate legislation was up and
they were being asked about why,you know what's actually going
on behind the scenes, because itwas almost like a black box,
right, and people were comingforward to testify and said I
was denied a pardon and I wasn'teven told why.
I wasn't even granted a hearingand I wasn't told why, right,
that sort of stuff over and overagain.
And they were basicallyembarrassed and said look, we

(01:04:18):
will be open about it, we'lltell you what's going on, right?
Is that a fair characterization?

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Yeah, the clean slate legislation, which is automatic
erasure of some people'scriminal records after they have
completed their sentences, andthat was passed by the state
legislature in 2021.
And as a side effect of that,it seemed like the Board of
Pardons and Parole realized thatwe have the ability to erase
people's records.
Clean slate does itautomatically for a small group

(01:04:43):
of people, but the Board ofPardons and Parole also has the
ability to do that for folks ifthey go through the application
process, and the board realizedthat we have a role to play here
and we need to do a better jobof looking at folks who maybe
aren't eligible for Clean Slatebut should be awarded the
opportunity to have their recorderased.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Right and I think that there was a lot of
conversation during that processof Clean Slate that it's fine
to carve people out because theyhave this other release valve
mechanism.
So what was your process like?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah.
So, gus, when you went to apply, all you had to do was write a
quick letter that said I'd liketo be released from all from
everything and be granted apardon.
And they just called you in thenext day and said here it is
right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
No, no, it's much more complicated than that, from
what I understand, because I'dnever applied for a pardon
before, but for me, now you cando it electronically.
It used to be.
You had to fill out a packet ofpapers and there was a lot of
work that you had to do.
That, I think, probablyinhibited a lot of people from
applying for pardons to beginwith, just because the amount of
paperwork that you have to gothrough.
Now you can do itelectronically, you know.

(01:05:53):
So you can go online, you cango to the Board of Pardons, of
Parole website and you can do itthat way.
And the reason that I appliedis because I knew a lot of
people who had gone through theprocess themselves, so I was
sort of following in theirfootsteps.
I saw that other people peoplethat I've been incarcerated with
were applying for a pardon andthey were getting it and I was
shocked.
I never thought that getting apardon was a possibility.
I thought, well, maybe this issomething that I should think
about doing myself.
So I took the leap.
I started my application inAugust of 2023.

(01:06:14):
You have to get police reports,you have to get things
notarized.
You have to get a backgroundcheck, which costs a little bit
of money.
You know it's $75 that you haveto pay to the state of
Connecticut.
You have to get fingerprinted.
You know there's a whole bunchof hoops and hurdles you have to
go through, so it takes a whileto do that.
The responsibility is on you.
One of the things I think iscrazy about getting the
background check is you have topay $75 to the state of

(01:06:37):
Connecticut to get yourbackground check and give it to
the board of partners From thestate of Connecticut.
Exactly, which is also the stateof Connecticut.
So sometimes these departments,these agencies, aren't
communicating with each other,but the responsibility is on you
to make sure they have theinformation.
So I finished my applicationand I think, in September of
2023.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
But finishing the application also is answering a
whole bunch of questions andgetting character reference
letters.
So there's an emotionalcomponent to filling this out
because you're reliving yourentire case again.

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
Yeah, you're not retrying your case, you know.
But the reality is that you aregoing back through a lot of the
circumstances and the momentsthat you you had originally gone
through, back when your crimesactually happened, and you're
thinking about your thoughtprocess and about who you were
at the time and you're imagining, you know, how things could be

(01:07:29):
differently.
At least you're trying toexplain that.
You're trying to explain howhave you changed from the person
that was to the person you arenow and why that makes you
somebody that would be eligibleto have your criminal record
expunged or erased by the Boardof Pardons and Parole.
I completed the application inSeptember.
You wait for a period of timeand then they in with you and
you have to wait for a longerperiod of time and do a phone

(01:07:50):
interview and then wait.
If you get through thepre-screening process, you have
an actual pardon hearing.
I had my pardon hearing at thebeginning of April of this year
Is that hearing live Becausethey were doing it over Zoom
during the pandemic.
Yeah, it was over Zoom.
I can remember in the past andthis is before the Board of
Pardoners and Parole reallychanged their process but I used

(01:08:10):
to go to pardon hearings withother people as sort of a
supportive person, people that Iknew that were applying, and
I'd go and just be with them inthe audience and I would watch
some of the hearings and theyused to be like terrible,
because you'd have maybe 20people would have a hearing and
maybe eight of them wouldactually get the pardon and then
a dozen of them would be denieda pardon.
And just the way it used towork was you'd all meet

(01:08:33):
somewhere in a room it might bea courtroom, they'd have pardon
hearings inside courtrooms andeverybody would kind of sit in
front of the parole board, threemembers of the parole board all
at once, and then the paroleboard members would go into
executive session and thenthey'd'd come out and they'd be
like this person gets a pardon,this person's denied this person
gets.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
The room full of people and I went to like four
or five hearings and this is theway they did it in like 2018,
19 prior to the pandemic, and soyou'd have people that would be
in tears because of they'vereceived their pardon and you
know the emotional work, theemotional work and they'd be
there with their family andtheir children and they'd be so
happy.
And then you'd have otherpeople there with their families

(01:09:14):
who had been denied a pardonand they'd be devastated by it.
It was just a really, reallyawful way to go about doing the
process.
But now, since the pandemic,they're all done by Zoom, and
that's the way I did mine andthey tell you as soon as you've
had your opportunity with, assoon as you go through the
questions and you give apersonal statement, the board
members ask you a few questions,trying to get into whether they

(01:09:38):
think you're truly repentantand you're a changed person.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Did all three of the members ask you questions?

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
Yes, for me they did.
You know, it's sort of a goodcop, bad cop.
You know, one person asked meabout a lot of the positive
things that I've been involvedwith and then the other person
asked me more pointed questionsabout trying to get me to talk
about the person that I was atthat time and like, how am I
different?
Now it seems like they do thatwith a lot of folks that go
through the process.
We have somebody more friendlyand then somebody that's a

(01:10:06):
little bit more of like aninterrogator, and then they wrap
it up For me.
It took me maybe less than 10minutes, between five and 10
minutes, and they tell you theyvote right.
Then, rather than waiting untilthe end of the hearing, they
say all right, do you approve?
And I got three people for me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Unanimous.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Because you was everybody in my group too I
think it was like eight or nineguys that I was with I stayed on
to watch the rest of thehearing too.
I was like the third person.
Everybody got their hearing,everybody got pardoned as well,
and it seems that if you gothrough the application process,
the phone interview and thepre-screening process, if you
can get to that point in thefull hearing, you're in a really
good situation.
The parole board has alreadydone a lot of their due

(01:10:46):
diligence and they think thatyou know you're a person that is
probably pretty well situatedto get a pardon.
You can really only damageyourself at that point by saying
something that's probably nottoo beneficial to your case.
When I've had opportunitiesbecause I know a bunch of people
now that have gone through theprocess and if they can get to
the pardon hearing, they're inreally good shape too.

(01:11:06):
So not that you have it lockedin, but feel confident about you
know all the steps and the workthat you've done to put
yourself in that position to bein the hearing to get your
pardon so I was able to get mineas well, and then that was in
April and I didn't actually getthe final, the actual
certificate until the summertime.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
I sent you a letter that says Gus, it was voted on.
You got it, but don't sayanything to anybody because you
didn't get it till we clear yourrecord.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
I got an email from the board saying that they'd
granted my pardon, and I printedup that email, and the next day
I drove down to see my parents,who are getting up there in age
, and I was able to show thatletter from the board of pardons
of parole to my parents, whichwas a huge deal for me, because
my parents have gone through allthe problems and journey that

(01:11:54):
I've been on They've been rightthere with me and it's been
really difficult for them aswell as it has been for me and
to be able to show them thatletter from the Board of Pardons
of Parole and also to show itto my sisters too.
You know, when I had a chance toshow it to my sisters, I think
that meant a lot in terms of,like, sticking by me and
continuing to love and supportme, and I wanted to, in some
small way, be able to show thatit all meant something, and I

(01:12:16):
think they knew that alreadythough, but just, you know a
little bit of, you know, seeinga big state agency like the
Board of Pardons for All kind ofback that up.
It was very meaningful.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
You know, it's one thing to turn your life around,
it's one thing to give back tothe community like you've done,
and then getting that externalvalidation.
The bar is set so high.
I mean you say about getting tothat point, like just getting
to that hearing, the bar is setreally high and the amount of
work that you had to go throughto even get that hearing is a

(01:12:47):
tremendous amount and youdeserve the highest praise and
recognition for beating that barand exceeding that bar and
doing the work that you've done.
So congratulations.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that process because I
think it does illustrate I knowthat you're humble and you sort
of downplayed a little bit thestruggle that it is to sort of
go through that and some of theother things.
And it's also important to notethe different processes that
happen in different states withdifferent agencies and so on and
so forth, because we do havelisteners across the country and

(01:13:21):
I think that Connecticut isstriving to do things a little
differently, is striving to dothings a little differently and
pardon processes and paroleprocesses in different states
might look a little different.
I know they look a littledifferent, so I just want to
acknowledge that and there aremany people that have gone
through this process that nevermake it to that hearing Right.

(01:13:44):
So the amount of work anddiligence and emotional roller
coaster that it takes to get towhere and receive that part and
is amazing, so you shoulddefinitely feel proud of that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Right and going through it.
Like you said.
You know the emotional part ifyou get it it's going through is
emotional because you're like,well, what if I get it?
Or what if I don't get it Right?
It's like all those emotionsgoing through and then when you
finally you know if you don'tget it that's a risk because
you're going to be deflatedagain.

(01:14:15):
But in this case it worked out.
You got it and in Connecticutnot only did you get the pardon
but it's also an expungementRight.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
I mean ideally, the reason you go through the pardon
process is, I'm sure there's apersonal interest in having your
record wiped clean, but justfrom a sort of a process and
technical standpoint.
You know we have the internet.
Information is still availableout there.
You're somebody that's tryingto get a better job or you're

(01:14:41):
trying to find an apartment, youknow all these things where a
person's criminal history mightpop up.
Those things may still exist ina lot of other places.
And even if you have a pardon,that doesn't necessarily mean
that you're not going tocontinue to face rejection and
discrimination based on thatcriminal record.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Exactly.
A bank could still say we knowabout it, it happened, even
though legally it doesn't existanymore.
But my point is that legallyyou have no criminal record
right and according to the stateof Connecticut you could say
you were never even arrested.

Speaker 4 (01:15:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
Yeah so I mean, I think that's worth celebration,
but that does not mean that wedon't identify the problems with
other areas where people areharmed.
So now I really want to talkabout all of the wonderful
things that, Gus, you are doing,and full disclosure.
Gus and I are co-workers at theACLU and so I'm knowledgeable

(01:15:36):
about all of the amazing waysthat Gus shows up in community
for people.
So, Gus, talk a little bitabout how did that happen.
Like you just woke up one dayand you're like I'm going to go
work for the ACLU, did that?

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
happen Like you just woke up one day and you're like.
I'm going to go work for theACLU.
Oh, no, no.
When I was at UConn, actually,I met somebody who was hired at
the ACLU as their criminaljustice organizer back in 2018.
One of the things that appealedto me about going to the UConn
School of Social Work is theyhad a group of students who were
very interested in massincarceration and the
intersection between social workand the social work profession,

(01:16:09):
and then people that also havecriminal records, because you
often see a lot of folks thatare our clients, that are going
to agencies that social workerswork in, who also have issues
with the criminal legal systemat the same time.
Yet there was not a whole lotof awareness about how people's
criminal records impacted themfrom a social work standpoint,
and what the students weretrying to do was, in the classes

(01:16:29):
that we took, they were tryingto have there be more discussion
and more studying about sort ofthe collateral consequences
that people face when they'reliving with a criminal record
and how social workers might doa better job of addressing those
issues and those barriers thatthey face.
So I met you know, I met astudent who ended up working at
the ACLU who I'd met at UConnSometime after she started

(01:16:50):
working, there was anopportunity to kind of do some
part-time work with the ACLU asa 15-hour-a-week field organizer
job that I applied for in thesummer of 2018.
Me and another guy got hired todo those 15-hour-a-week job and
eventually that 15 hours a weekturned into 25 hours a week and
then eventually, after about ayear, I got hired on as a

(01:17:11):
full-time staff person.
So for a long time I hadanother full-time job that I was
working in the restaurantindustry and I was also working
25 hours a week at the ACLU, andthen finally was able to become
valuable enough to theaffiliate, where they hired me
on full-time in 2019.
I was originally a fieldorganizer and then I became the
campaign manager for the SmartJustice Campaign, which is the

(01:17:34):
ACLU's forward-facing criminallegal system reform work that
they've been doing over the lastmaybe five or six years.
That's basically what I spend alot of my time doing now, in
addition to a lot of work aroundvoting rights and all the other
issue areas that the ACLUfocuses on connected to civil
rights and civil liberties.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Yeah, and so I do have to say that I first met Gus
when I was not working for theACLU and our lives were impacted
by the criminal legal system.
And so, gus, for those thatdon't know what is an organizer
Like, what does an organizer do?

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
We connect and move people.
So you are looking to, first ofall, identify the issues that
people are facing in their lives.
You know what are the problemsthat people have and how can we
do an organized way ofaddressing them.
So an organizer meets peoplewhere they're at.
An organizer learns about theissues that people are facing in
their lives and an organizertries to bring people together

(01:18:35):
to create change and for us atthe Smart Justice Campaign, that
has typically been legislativechange.
So we organize folks that havebeen directly impacted by the
criminal legal system and weidentify a particular issue.
You know whether that'ssomething like clean slate, the
automatic erasure of a person'scriminal record, housing
discrimination, discriminationwhen it comes to occupational

(01:18:58):
licenses.
You know people that want tobecome nurses or barbers or
anything that requires a license, but if you have a person with
a criminal record that you don'thave access to those types of
employment opportunities.
And we organize folks to cometo the Capitol to lobby, to
testify on behalf of bills, totalk to legislators about the
barriers that they're facing andhow we need the people that we

(01:19:18):
put into positions of power totear down those barriers and
allow people to flourish and beproductive members of our state.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
And so I want to connect this back, because this
is sort of a beautiful fullcircle thing for me, because I'm
thinking about 16 year old Gus,who went and did community
service and he was like, oh,this is the part of what I'm
doing that makes me seepotential and see a future, and

(01:19:50):
all of that, and you know, fillsmy soul if you will.
And so here you are doingexactly that many years later.
Is that?
Does that feel right?

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know I think I said thisearlier too, and I said this in
my pardon hearing that I knowthat I'm the best version of
myself, or I'm a better versionof myself, or I'm a better
version of myself when I amconnected to other people, when
I'm invested in the success andthe well-being of other people,
and you know when that getsreturned to me, when other
people are invested in mysuccess and my health and my

(01:20:21):
prosperity, and that's the onlyway I think any of us are going
to ultimately be successful andthriving in our lives.
You know we have to havecommunities around us.
As much as I appreciate mysolitude and just hanging out by
myself and being with my dog,ultimately I know that the
things that are going to make mesuccessful are when other
people around me are successfultoo, and that's being in

(01:20:41):
community.
So you know, if we can tie itall the way back to when I was
16 years old and doing communityservice and feeling that that
was like really meaningful to me, much more so than whatever
silly programs that the legalsystem tried to assign,
ultimately it's in working inservice of other people and
having people cooperating withother people and allowing other

(01:21:02):
people to be with you as well.
That's ultimately where thesolutions are.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
And Gus, your advocacy.
You know you make a difference.
You are a very impactful person.
You're memorable People likeyou.
People know you.
You rally, you're everywhereFor people who are listening.
Gus is the guy with the camera,often taking pictures at every
event, making sure that not onlydid the event happen, but that
it's been documented, and sohe's very.

(01:21:29):
He's got a big social mediapresence.
So Gus is I'm a big Gus fan.
I'm really glad you're here.
Amber, I think it's time foryour final question.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
Yeah, if I had not met Gus and Anderson, I don't
think that I would be doing whatI do today.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Anderson was a prior Amplify Voices guest too, and
he's become a friend and youalways see Gus and Anderson
together working Anderson is mycolleague.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
He's somebody I work closely with and somebody also
that's been impacted by thecriminal legal system.
We talk a lot about peersupport and supporting each
other.
We both started at the ACLUabout the same time and we've
now been with the organizationfor seven years something like
that.
He's a wonderful person.

Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:22:11):
We love.

Speaker 3 (01:22:11):
Anderson.
So, I want to ask you, gus,sort of our final question
before we wrap up our timetogether, and that is if you had
one piece of advice that youwould give to someone who is at
the beginning of a journey thatwas similar to yours.
You know, thinking that16-year-old Gus, what piece of

(01:22:34):
advice would you give a personat that point in their journey?

Speaker 4 (01:22:41):
That's a hard question.
I'm not sure that I ever wouldhave thought when I was younger
that I would kind of get to thepoint where I'm at right now,
and a lot of it is just takingthings day to day.
It's not trying to get too farahead of yourself and thinking
you know as much as I think thisis incredibly important to have
a plan for yourself.
It's also about making gooddecisions on a regular basis and

(01:23:01):
trying to think about what isgood for me.
You know, getting a dog hasbeen really important for me in
terms of having companionshipand have something that I don't
have kids of my own, though, butI have.
My dog is like my child and Ilove him to death.
It's it's doing smaller thingsthat are really about taking
care of yourself and ultimatelytrying to put yourself, you know
, little by little, in bettersituations and making better

(01:23:26):
decisions for things that aregoing to be good for yourself
and hopefully, over time, thosethings building into something
that you don't even realize hashappened.
But suddenly you're in a bettersituation.
Maybe you're around people thathave values that are similar to
your own and ultimately puttingyourself in a better position
where more doors are open to you.
You know I'm still buildingtowards that myself, but it's

(01:23:48):
little by little and notexpecting that everything's
going to happen all at once.
And you know, don't try tooverwhelm yourself or intimidate
yourself into thinking that youcan suddenly make a huge leap
in time, because that's not theway life works.
You know, you still got to wakeup in the morning and go to bed
at night, and you know, takethings hour by hour.
So, yeah, take it slowly.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
Well, Gus, thank you so much for joining us on
Amplified Voices today.
It was really great to hear alittle bit of your story and I
know that our listeners willreally appreciate the things
that we've learned today.
What's the best way that peoplecould get in touch with you if
they want to connect with yourwork?

Speaker 4 (01:24:24):
Well, I'm always open and love meeting folks.
You can find me on all thesocial media stuff.
I'm not on TikTok, but you canfind me on Instagram and
Facebook and Twitter.
I think all my profiles arepublic so folks can send me
friend requests or send me DMsor, if you want to meet, by Zoom
, and we can meet each otherthat way.
A lot of the work that I do isone-on-ones with people, so I'm

(01:24:49):
always happy to meet with folksand talk about where they're
coming from and the work that wedo, and if there's
opportunities for all that tointersect, I'm happy to meet new
people all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Thank you, gus, and you know it's been a pleasure to
get to know you over the years.
I hope that we continue to worktogether on different projects.
I know I'll be seeing you outin the community, amber
absolutely because she workswith you, so she'll see you.
But thank you so much forcoming in and sharing your
personal side of your storytoday and advancing the issues

(01:25:19):
for so many people.
So it was really wonderful tohave you.
Finally, because I know we justI don't know if Amber knows
this, but Gus and I both went toa class on podcasting before
Amplified Voices ever evenexisted.
So thank you, gus and Amber,until next time.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a podcast
lifting the experiences ofpeople and families impacted by
the criminal legal system.
For more information, episodesand podcast notes, visit
amplifiedvoicesshow.

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Gus: A Powerful Community Advocate - Season 5 Episode 7

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Gus: A Powerful Community Advocate - Season 5 Episode 7