124. Restorative Justice and Healing Circles w/ Ruth Jeannoel

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Ruth Ifakemi Efungbemi Ajewole Ajeleti Ifaloro Jeannoelis a Haitian American, cultural organizer, holistic healer and writer. She is also a mother and wife. Currently, Ruth serves as the Founder and Director of the growing non-profit, Fanm Saj, Inc based in Miami, FL. Fanm Saj in the Haitian Kreyol language means, Midwife, we’ll say Midwives catch babies and Fanm Saj catches communities.

In this enlightening conversation, Ruth illustrates how restorative practices can bolster Black maternal health, spotlighting the potency of circles for connection and recovery. With her experiences in youth organization intertwining with movements spanning environmental justice, birth work, and gender-based violence, we gain a deeper understanding of restorative justice practices and their potential to create more equitable and healing-centered communities.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to this Restorative Justice Life.
I'm your host, david Ryan, bySega Castro Harris All five
names were all the ancestors andtoday we're continuing our
series highlighting therestorative justice work by the
practitioners in Florida, in theSouth, in efforts to support
the 2023 down south restorativejustice conference, rj.
The remix exploring, living andexpanding restorative justice

(00:27):
happening October 20 through22nd in Orlando or just outside
of Orlando, if you want to learnmore about that links to that
in the description, but todaywe're so honored to be in the
presence of somebody who's beendoing restorative justice in so
many different aspects, but, asalways, we're going to let them
introduce themselves.
So, ruth, welcome to thisrestorative justice life.

(00:49):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh, david, I am Ruth, ifakemi, fumvemi, ajueli,
ajeleti, ifaloro Ginoel.
So I share all of my namesbecause I carry so much of my
ancestors with me too.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'm grateful, I'm grateful to be on with you today
.
I am a mother, I am a wife, Ihave three beautiful children.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I am present, I am here.
I am a student of life, and Isay that because there's so many
lessons that I've had to learnon this journey of life, and
being a student, at the veryleast of it, helps me to know
that I can keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Absolutely.
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Now it's getting deeper.
I am wealth and I am myancestors wealth in water, in
consciousness, in time, incurrency.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I am a practitioner, I practice, at least I try my
best to practice what I preach.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I am the daughter of Maurice, who is the daughter of
Cesaphie, who is from a longhistory lineage of Haitians who
believe in Black liberation, somuch that in 1804, we fought to

(02:50):
become the first Black nation inthe Western Hemisphere.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
And finally for now, who are you?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I am a child of Olo Dumare, I am a child of the
water, of the fire, of the earth, of the wind, and I'm here, I'm
ready and I'm present.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Beautiful, beautiful.
There are so many intersectionsof who you are that we're going
to get to over the course ofour conversation, but I wanted
to give you the opportunity toalso open our space and so, in
the way that you'd like to, Iturn the.
I pass the talking piece to you.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So the offering that I have for us today is a sacred
or reaffirmation card deck.
This is a card deck that Iworked with several artists,
including Gina Cherry, sageSatori, who's down here in South
Florida to produce, and it waswith Four Together, who's based

(03:50):
in California, and also fromSage, based in Miami, and so I'm
going to invite everybody tojust be present as much as we
can and take a deep, cleansingbreath through our nose and
exhaling out, taking anotherdeep breath in through your nose

(04:13):
and exhaling out, and takingone more deep breath in through
your nose and exhaling out.
And the card itself is calledthe sacred or reaffirmation card

(04:36):
deck, and our or re, in theEuropean language, is our inner
head, and this is what we sayguides us on this earth.
Everywhere we go, we have ouror re, and so it's always
beautiful to affirm ourselves,and so that's where we get the
sacred or reaffirmations.
So I'm going to shuffle thedeck and I'm going to cut it in

(05:02):
half.
Ah, shay, wow, wow.
The card that I pulled for usis the transformation card.
It's the number 15.
And in the background of thecard you see a sun at the top,

(05:26):
there's some flowers in thebackground and there's a woman
who is pregnant, holding a baby,with a puff, hair style and
gold look like yellow or goldhoop earrings and the card
itself is transformation number15.
So I'm going to read from thecard deck and then invite you

(05:51):
all to do the affirmation withme.
Okay, so number 15transformation.
Freedom cannot be bought, soldor bartered.
You are on fertile ground andwhat you're carrying will soon
be birthed, whether it's a newidea, new project or new

(06:11):
awakening, you determine foryourself what it means and how
it feels to be free, and we musthave the freedom to raise what
and whom we birth in safe andhealthy environments.
No matter what you decide,freedom means, for you know that
it cannot be bought, sold orbartered.

(06:32):
Be free, ah, shay.
So now, david, I'll invite youand everyone listening, I'll
invite you to hold your ory withtwo hands.
If this is the first time thatyou're doing this, like today,
you could say thank you, becausemost of the time we're like oh
my gosh, I can't believe thishappened, right, we always doing
that, right.

(06:52):
But we're just going to saythank you to your own ory, so
you'll repeat after me, ory.
Ory please elevate me.
Please elevate me to a deeperknowing to a deeper knowing that
freedom that freedom cannot bebought cannot be bought sold

(07:18):
sold or bartered or bartered.
Help me to remember.
Help me to remember that I haveall that I need that I have all
that I need to sweeten my lifeto sweeten my life and destiny
from within and destiny fromwithin.
Ashay.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Ashay.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
So that is our card.
Even as we start thisconversation today.
That's the card that we havefor for us.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Beautiful, you know.
Thank you so much for thatopening for, for that sharing.
It leaves a very fertile groundfor us to, you know, highlight
your story, the work that you'vedone, and it's spanned so many
things across, the work that wecall quote unquote restorative
justice.

(08:10):
But before we dive into that,it's always good to check in
right, we've been talking for alittle bit now, but for the
audience here, for our communitymembers, who are listening to
the full extent that you want toanswer the question, how are
you feeling right now?

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah.
So thank you for asking me howI'm doing so.
Today I am doing good, I'mfeeling I'm returning from its
summer.
It's summer has ended for us,we're parents and school has
started.
School started last week and sofor a period of time we were

(08:48):
traveling.
We went to Nigeria.
To that I would, I'm going totalk, I'll share more about that
trip, because that was verytransformative for me and my
whole family.
This was the first time that Iwent outside of the country and
it was to the motherland, toNigeria.
So I feel very privileged andhonored and for that I'm coming

(09:14):
in really grateful to have thisconversation with you.
Education in Florida right now,as a parent, is there's so much
to consider, you know, and so,with everything that's going on,
it's always important to kindof highlight the work that we

(09:35):
are doing to be able to confrontwhat is happening within our
education movement, within ourcommunities, within black
communities.
But for this present moment,I'm doing good and I'm
optimistic.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah love it and you know I think we can get into
that piece now.
Like you know this framework ofthese conversations about doing
the work in the South, inFlorida specifically for you
know the past couple ofconversations we've had it's not
a landscape that many mightthink is conducive to doing

(10:10):
restorative justice work.
It's true that wherever thereare press of forces there are
people who are strugglingagainst.
There are always people andhistorically black people
working for you know ourcollective liberation, how you
know gratitude and presence andhope and optimism abound in this
moment and maybe coming off ofthat trip.

(10:32):
How do you maintain that energyin the land of Rhonda Santis,
right, and don't say gay billsand anti CRT bills and like book
bans and all of that happeningin the schools and the ripple
effects that has on communities?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of work that we
have to do.
My first thing, the first thingthat I inclined to share, is
paying homage to my ancestors.
I pay homage to my Ory.
I thank God and I thank OluDumaire, I thank my godmother,
if I will, I thank my husband,mark, and I thank my children,

(11:14):
and I thank my community forbeing persistent, for being
determined to actually say we'renot going to give up, right,
we're not giving up on ourselves, we're not giving up on each
other, even if the outside worldis going to give up on Florida
or us.
Right, we're not giving up oneach other.

(11:34):
But the way that I think, one ofthe ways I would say to stay
present, to stay optimistic andto do this work, is to connect
back to our ancestors, right,and to connect back to the work
that they do and that they'veleft us to do.
I think that that is one waythat we do it right Is to be

(11:58):
able to kind of be in gratitudeand to remember the work that
they've done that has led ushere.
Something that I think aboutevery day that I wake up is
there's so many of our ancestorswho chose actually to not
continue right, and so we payhomage to them.
There's so many of ourancestors that came, that were

(12:21):
forced to come here, that wasstolen from their land, that
lost their identities right,that now we're able to, like,
remember.
So now our work is to be ableto reclaim a lot of the journeys
that they've gone through andto re-understand and remember

(12:41):
what our responsibility is.
And we can't do that byourselves, I can't do that by
myself.
I have to do that with myfamily, I have to do that with
my temple, my spiritual home,and I have to do that with
ritual, right.
I have to do that inunderstanding that there's so
many people, there's so manyforces that actually are, like

(13:05):
Florida is underwater, forgetabout Florida.
You know, education is not thething here.
Like, forget about it, right.
But for us who are here, wehave to continue to fight, and
for me, it's like doing thefighting is creating
alternatives to what currentlyexists, whether that's

(13:27):
restorative justice circles ortransformative justice processes
.
We're going to keep doing thealternative.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, the ability to maintain hope right, Miriam Kaba
says hope is a discipline, andshe's not the first to voice
that.
But the idea that this isongoing work that we are
carrying on for the ancestorswho jumped off the slave ships

(13:57):
right, Because they thought thatdeath is better than a life
upon it.
To those that survived andexperienced horror upon horror
through chattel enslavement onthe land that we call United
States, on different islandsacross the Caribbean, all across
this now Western hemisphereright, there are lots of ways

(14:19):
that our people you know, peoplewho are stolen from Africa have
been, have suffered and havealso been indoctrinated into
white supremacy right.
And this is an ongoing healingjourney that does not end with
legislation about a specific setof curriculum, about a specific

(14:42):
way of teaching a subject inschool right, there are deeper
things in that.
And remembering the longjourney that we're all on, right
.
Whatever your ancestry, thelong journey towards liberation
requires that hope and consciouswork, and connecting back to
that in whatever way ismeaningful for you doesn't

(15:04):
necessarily have to be the waythat we talked about here, is
really helpful is really helpful, and so you know there's a lot
of work that you've done aroundrestorative justice.
There's a lot of work thatyou're continuing to do in
community and schools, but weoften like to start this
conversation with a question.
You know you've been doing thiswork for a long time, but

(15:25):
probably before you even knewthe words restorative justice.
So, from your perspective, howdid this get started for you?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, young people black and brown youth were
getting suspended and arrestedfor really minor infractions in
schools, and I remember.
So I moved from Boston to Miamiand I was looking to organize.
I was organizing inMassachusetts and when I moved I
was like I want to continueorganized.
And somebody linked me up withthe Power Youth Center for

(15:56):
social change and when I gotthere I saw young people in
circle and they were talking,talking about their experiences,
talking about their stories,all of the things that they were
facing in schools, and I waslike, wow, this was, this is
really beautiful.
Like I really enjoyed thestorytelling aspect of it, right
, and then a couple weeks afterthat I learned that it was a

(16:17):
campaign that they were doing,that they were saying, actually,
what we were doing in theoffice is what we want in
schools.
So, instead of students gettingsuspended and arrested for
really minor infractions, thatwe want to be able to hold
circles for them to be able toshare their side of the story.
And I remember sitting incircle and even talking about my

(16:38):
own experiences while I was inschool and I was like, wow, I
wish that I had restorativejustice circle keeping in
schools when I was in school.
There had been so manyinstances where I won't talk
about all the things, right, ormaybe the small, like small
things.
But yeah, to be honest, likethere's been so many instances

(16:59):
that I've thought of and I'mlike, wow, like if only I had
somebody to talk to or if only Iwas able to share my side of
the story, maybe my healingjourney would have begun right.
Or if only I had a chance to,like, sit in a circle, maybe I
wouldn't have gotten into afight with that girl for
whatever the reason, right.
So there's so many things thatkind of brought that back to me

(17:22):
of like understandingrestorative justice as a
storytelling tool, a communitybuilding tool and an alternative
for incarceration and zerotolerance policies.
And from there, that campaignthat was.
That campaign was a 10-year longcampaign.
So we're dealing like in theSouth when we're trying to do

(17:46):
racial justice, educationjustice, reproductive justice,
work, things that may kind of,you know, in the Northeast like,
or in the West, may take fiveyears, take longer down here
there's a lot of shifting ofculture that we have to do.
There's a lot of policy shiftsand conversations that we have
to have to have with people,including young people and their

(18:09):
parents around.
What does this actually looklike?
And so the campaign was won andwe were able to get restorative
justice in schools because ofyoung people, because of parents
and really because of a longhistory of understanding that
this was not okay and that weneeded something new, right.
And so a lot of like thecampaign winning too,

(18:31):
unfortunately came after thebrutal murder of Trayvon Martin,
where young people took overthe state capital and wanted to
activate Trayvon's law, andrestorative justice was a part
of that legislative policy thatwe wanted, which also forced the
president at that time,president Obama, to push the

(18:53):
initiative of my Brother'sKeeper.
And so, even around that timeof pushing my Brother's Keeper
and Trayvon's law, our work, mywork, was really also thinking
about this as okay, let's talkabout not just how the school to
prison pipeline is impactingblack boys, but how is this also

(19:14):
impacting black girls andgender not conforming young
people?
And that's where we started theBlack Girls Matter Coalition.
And so all of which, all of thistime it was, we were doing
circles right, restorativejustice, we were practicing them
in the schools and outside ofthe communities.
But the largest test for me camewhen it was like I don't want

(19:36):
to just have a tool and give itto the state and have, and we
don't know how to use the tool,we don't know how to practice it
, we don't know it.
And so that was when we invitedSujatha to come down to train
us to become circlekeepers, andthen she did another training
for us to become trainers sothat was around 2015, where I

(19:58):
was trained to become arestorative justice circlekeeper
and trainer and train others tohold circles.
So it's been a long journey.
It's been a beautiful journey,exciting journey, and then
there's been a lot of timeswhere I would say we utilize
restorative justice as a toolright Not just for restorative

(20:23):
justice but really for communityaccountability and for me and
also for ancestral ofintegration and ancestral
healing right.
And so for me it's been abeautiful journey but also a
deep spiritual practice to beable to practice RJ.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, the risk of asking that question is always
that there's so much that I wantto unpack from all of those
things.
And I want to go back to thebeginning.
Right, when you talked aboutcoming from the Northeast to
South Florida, right, youalready had this ethic of

(21:06):
community organizing andactivism.
Where did that stem from foryou?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, my organizing actually started in the fourth
grade.
We were parents and studentswere organizing around over.
There was called the MCAS,which is like the standardized
test, and we were fightingagainst the to not take the MCAS
because we didn't want it to bea test that we needed to take

(21:35):
in order to go to the next grade.
And then, even before that, andI think about my organizing and
how I got into this is reallybecause I always ask the
question why, like?
Why is it that some people haveand some people don't?
Growing up from a single parenthome, my mom is a Haitian
immigrant I had to translateeverything for her.

(21:56):
Sometimes we had it, sometimeswe did it.
A lot of times we're likehouseless, going from house to
house, and the question I alwaysasked myself was why?
Why is it that some people areable to like wear Jordan's to
school, for example, and othersaren't?
Why is it that some people havemore food in their lunchbox and

(22:17):
I don't Right Like?
Why is it that some people havebeautiful houses and my family
struggling, you know, and so Ithink it's because of the, my
curiosity that led me to even gointo like my first protest in
the fourth grade.
You know of like why do we haveto take this test Right?
Like what is it?
And why do we have to take it?

(22:38):
In order to go to the fourthgrade, right so, or go to the
next grade.
And so that was really where mywork kind of started, I would
say.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, and you know, having this ethic and seeing
that like community voicingConcerns about injustice can
make change, like has an impacton the way that you're gonna
navigate.
Coming into a space likeFlorida right where and you know
Florida gets a bad rap Somemight say deservedly so, but

(23:09):
like we have to acknowledge thatthis kind of legislation, these
kinds of overly punitive orrestrictive, regressive policies
are happening all across thecountry and maybe in your
municipality or On on your statelevel, right wherever you are
coming into this space.
That's like in 20 in the early2010s, less hostile than it is

(23:31):
now but still prettyantagonistic towards equity,
justice, liberation for blackpeople, right, having the
community around that,connecting to community like
power you who will hopefully behighlighting soon Doing doing
this work, is so important whenyou're making those first

(23:54):
connections into community herein Florida or where you are in.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Florida.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
What was it about the community and the young people
that made you say like, yeah,this, this is the way that I
want to move, because there arelots of other initiatives that
you could have given your energytowards.
When you saw those young peoplein circle, what was it about it
?
I was like, yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, I'm not gonna mention her name, but there was
a particular young person who Ithink at the time, so power you
organize as young people betweenI think they started 13, right,
this person was eight and shehad so many questions.
She had so many questions andshe reminded me of myself and it

(24:37):
was those young people wereblack, they were young and they
were Curious.
They were asking all the whyquestions that I asked, you know
.
And then there were, like, whenthey were like community
meetings or they were likeself-organizing Meetings, like
they were taking notes, theywere doing Kind of like they

(24:58):
were doing icebreakers together,they were doing like sharing
the talking piece, and I waslike, wow, like they were like
lead, they led themselves, right.
And then I would meet like otherparents, right, I would meet
other black people and otherparents that look just like me,
right, dark skin, black people,and I was like, wow, this is

(25:18):
beautiful, right, because not soLike in the Northeast, I would
say, because it's so like, it'slike racially diverse, you know,
like there's all sorts ofpeople organizing, right, but at
that time in over town it wasblack people organizing
themselves and they wereself-organizing and the parents

(25:39):
were coming and the parents weretalking about birth work, you
know, and they were talkingabout environmental justice work
, and so I Think that would bewhy I chose to stay there.
Right is because I saw myself inthem.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, right, the Both , the intersection of you know,
seeing a space where youngpeople, maybe like Yourself,
with that same energy, like, arebeing honored, and like this
Acknowledgement of, like theintersectional nature of like
our collective struggle forliberation is so important,
right, because I think a lot ofthe times folks can just get
pigeonholed into, like you know,restorative practices in

(26:18):
schools so we can break theschool to prison pipeline.
It's like, yeah, that's harmreductive and something that
needs to happen, but that kindof harm is happening within a
geography that is at severe riskfor the effects of, like
climate change right is at Is inthe intersections of, like a
lot of gendered violence thatyou know Continue to happen, not

(26:41):
just unique to to Florida.
And like, making sure thatthose Intersections of the work
are honored is a challenge to doin an organizing space, because
you know, we do have to pushfor, like specific Initiatives
in given moments, but to be incommunity with people who do
care about like these communityinitiatives with an
intersectional lens is soimportant.

(27:01):
You continue to do restorativejustice work in lots of
different spaces and I kind ofwant to leave it, turn it back
to you to continue to tell thestory of what your practices
look like, because it Varies andis so intersectional across a
lot of the things that we justtalked about.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true because Since, okay, so at
the time I was doing it as acampaign, right, I was doing
restorative justice circlekeeping as a community tool to
Get people to recruit right orto get to keep engaged and to
understand the practice so wecan have it into the schools
right, and I, I would say yearslater, we won that campaign.

(27:40):
I was also going on a spiritualjourney, a healing journey, and
it also around that time I washaving a lot of dreams.
My ancestors will come in mydreams and there was a
particular dream that I had,where I was like in the water
and I was like swimming I don'tknow how to swim in real life,
but like I was swimming in thewater and I saw a stroller and

(28:03):
it was like, okay, you got tocatch this stroller.
And I was like, okay, I got tocatch this baby.
And it was like all thesethings I had to like grab, right
, but I was under the water andhad to like catch a bunch of
things, right, and so In thatdream I woke up and it was like,
oh, fumsage, right, fumsage,and Haitian Creole means midwife
, and what we'll say is midwivescatch babies and fumsage we

(28:25):
catch communities.
So that's where where I am nowis Doing this healing work and
these practices at theorganization called fumsage,
where I do hold lots ofdifferent types of circles and I
get an opportunity to trainpeople on circle keeping.
But what I value, or what I'mlearning the most as a

(28:48):
Practitioner, is that I'm notthe only one I'm nor am I the
first person that's ever donethis that this is an indigenous
practice and it's even connectedto our direct ancestors, right.
So there's a whole ancestor inthe ifa Yurba tradition called
Obatala, and Obatala is the kingof white cloth and he is the

(29:12):
kingmaker, but he's the king,but he's also the peacekeeper of
all the other orishas that havetraveled through, through Olo
Dumaari, and so the reason why Ibring up Obatala is because a
lot of times where we're likehaving conversations right, and

(29:32):
for me I have to like sit withmyself to better understand how
and what type of circle isneeded, right.
So sometimes I'm holdingcircles and the process is about
holding a circle to betterunderstand relationship, right.
Sometimes it's about conflictand, and a lot of times it's

(29:54):
also there's been like atraumatic harm that's happened
in the community, right, and sothe variation of it always
starts with well, what hashappened and what's the need,
what's needed to be able to moveforward in a healthy way?
Right, but most of the time Ispend and I sit before I Hold a
process or circle to betterunderstand for myself Am I

(30:18):
actually able to hold thiscircle right or am I actually
able to hold this process?
And I ask a lot.
I ask permission, I askpermission from my elders, I ask
permission for my ancestors toknow if this is something that
Will be that I can hold rightwith their support, right.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, so yeah, what happens when the answers no?

Speaker 2 (30:42):
So the it's yeah, I I'm very well, I'm very okay
with the no, right.
And sometimes then I have tocommunicate that with somebody
else and then People who don'treally understand my spiritual
practice they will be like okay,well, who, when can you do it?
You know it'll be like well, ifyou can't do it now, oh, if

(31:07):
it's a no now, well, when canyou?
Right?
And then I have to respond andsay I don't know, you know, or I
can help you to identifysomebody else to hold this for
you.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, I mean even outside of your specific
practice.
I think what you highlighted isreally important about just
because you have the knowledgeand capability to Hold a space
doesn't mean that you're theright person to do it in any
given situation.
Right, and through whateverpath of discernment that you're

(31:40):
taking To to reach that answeris is really an important
consideration.
Often, when we're talking to,when I'm talking to, folks who
are learning to be restorativejustice practitioners and
facilitate processes like this,right, the role of
co-facilitators, the role ofdoing this in community, the
role of making sure that, at theintersections of your identity,

(32:02):
right, you're not an inhibitionto that process, is important.
The, the importance of makingsure that this work doesn't not
just exist with one personWithin the context of your
organization, within the corecontext of your community, in
the context of your school, isso important to make sure that,

(32:22):
just because you can't, forwhatever reason, you might be
sick that day, right, you mightleave the organization for some
reason or another, you might notbe in community with that space
, like if the Work just liveswith one person and is not a
part of the life of thecommunity and there are not
multiple people who can holdthose spaces for each other, not

(32:45):
just a Repair harm but to healit, to connect, to grow right.
You're doing yourselves adisservice in those moments of
the know and trying to findOthers to support and
collaborate with.
What does that look like?
How have you built communitiesthat have or been a part of,
communities that have multiplepeople who can carry that

(33:07):
culture?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So in South Florida and atFumsage we have had the
opportunity actually to be ableto train youth and adults to
have a restorative justiceecosystem for community, for
schools to be able to actuallybe in practice with each other,

(33:30):
and so what that looks like isfirst they receive the training
and then they meet monthly.
We all meet monthly to be ableto be in practice with each
other and then in the youngpeople we actually coach because
we receive resources to be ableto do that.
but we coach young people sothat way they can hold circles
in their own communities.

(33:50):
And so, and we stipend them.
We think thank God, we thinkwe're so grateful to our funders
to allow us to be able toresource them to for them to
consider it work, right, forthem to consider it like any
other type of work peacekeepingis also and can also be work.

(34:10):
And so, with adults, we providethe training and then we offer
practitioner circles for peopleto be in practice with each
other, to kind of connect witheach other and to share, like,
their skills with their learningin the communities that they're
holding circles in and then tocome back and to share those
skills with each other.
And then, of course, we allstay connected with also our

(34:36):
elders right, to also likeconnect with folks like from
from just, from just practiceand other organizations, to be
able to to kind of likeunderstand how RJ and how TJ is
work, being used and workingacross the country.
Right, because we know thatSouth Florida and Florida is a

(34:58):
special place.
Right, and we know that whatwe're doing works here, right,
works well here, and sometimesconnecting with others helps us
to grow in our wisdom, so wedon't have to reinvent the wheel
.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, for sure, and you know their amplifier days.
Also a place where folks acrossthe country have been able to
connect and learn not bestpractices, but like.
This is my experience, this ismy story, this is how my
community has been navigating.
So many of these things thereare.
There are a handful of othercollaborative work convenings

(35:37):
that happen across, one of whichis, you know, this conference
that's happening at the downsouth Florida restorative
justice conference in Octoberlink in the description.
But when we think about doingthis work within the, within
your specific context, right,what have some quote unquote
best practices been, whetherit's in the context of schools
or community, or one of some ofthe things that you've seen work

(36:02):
really well?

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.
So what I see that works reallywell for us is the consistency
to be in practice.
So, for example, every month wehave a particular circle that
we hold, which is a sacredhealing circle, and this is for
black women from identifiedfolks to attend, and there
there's also practitioners, andthen there's people who are also

(36:25):
like, maybe they're becomingpoliticized or maybe not.
Right, they are able to likeshare the guidelines, they're
able to share the values andwe're able to like be in circle
with each other.
Right, because what I, whatI've learned, is like one
practice that I'll see, orsomething that I see is that
there are many types of circles.
There's different circleshappening everywhere.
Right, everybody's doing acircle now.

(36:48):
Right, but what makes itrestorative, justice is that
we're holding the principles andthe guidelines right, we're
holding the values, we'reutilizing a talking piece and
we're holding the integrity ofthe indigenous culture, right,
and we're we're giving and we'retaking, so it's like a
reciprocity happening in circleto create that sense of

(37:10):
vulnerability, right.
And so, for me, what I see inthe best practices are, once
we're able to like do ourtraining in Miami and from side,
just a three day training, 24hour long training, and this
particular training allows youngpeople to be vulnerable really
quickly.
It allows adults to getvulnerable very quickly because

(37:34):
we jump in right and we in a lotof ways it gives people
accessibility to each other,that they get to share,
sometimes something that maybethey've never shared before in
their whole life.
You know, at the very least ofit, that I remember when I first

(37:54):
one of those first circles thatI was in, that I shared
something that I had nevershared with anyone before.
But it was because of thatvulnerability, that vulnerable
space that was, that was createdfor me to be able to like,
share and release and cry infront of people that had never
cried in front of the floor.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, you know, what's inherent to restorative
justice practitioner is practiceRight.
And when people talk about youknow I went to this training and
then I read this book and thenyou know I started this program
in my school or in myorganization.
It's like, yes and like, whatis the practice that?

(38:38):
Like is keeping you up is oftena question that I have people
come to trainings like, you knowwhat's my next art?
I don't have this context whereI can do this.
Professional was like, well, didyou circle with your family?
Did you circle with your chosencommunity?
Right, what are the ways that,like you can continue to again
like, build strength and as,where, as well as repair these

(38:58):
relationships?
So we have this ethic of beingable to say the things that we
need to each other right beforewe become full blown crises and
like more harm is perpetuatedright.
Being in the practice of doingthat, being in practice with
people who hold these values andcommunity are so important as

(39:19):
you're building capacity withinthe context of community right.
This is coming against aculture at large, and then in
Florida specifically, that isantagonistic to these ways of
being.
How have you all navigated that?

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, even yeah.
So I shared with a little bitearlier that school is starting,
so summer is ending for manyyoung people and for us as
parents, and so for us, the waythat we navigate is we stay in
relationship with each other andwe ask each other questions.
We ask like what is it that youneed at this time?
Right, and then we create spacefor people to be able to answer

(39:59):
what their needs are.
And a lot of times the needscould be anything from like I
just want to just go outside andtake a walk, right, and I want
somebody to like walk with mebecause I'm not feeling safe in
my neighborhood.
Or the need could be likeactually I want to go like
shopping because I need to likeair out, whatever.

(40:19):
And then for our communities, alot of times we have to do like
mutual aid because sometimesfolks can be able they're not
able to pay their light bill orthey're not able to pay Like
there's a lot of young peopleright now who don't have like
school supplies or their parentsaren't able to afford the
necessary things.
Right, that you would say, okay, you need to go to school,

(40:40):
right, and so a lot of the likeit's like the practice of circle
keeping and the practice ofrestorative justice is like in
circle, but it's also beingresourceful outside of circles,
so connecting folks to mentalhealth practitioners.
For us, because we understandthis, we've had to, we've had to
build a healing justice fund tobe able to raise money, to ask

(41:04):
folks to give, so that way, whensomebody needs like any
financial support, or if theyneed like a practice, like a
Reiki practitioner or anurbanist or a spiritualist to
guide them right, they're ableto access that.
And so we we we launched thathealing justice fund for that
specific reason and is growing.

(41:26):
There are so many practitionerswho are like I'll give, I'll
give my time, I'll give mytalent, just let me know right,
and so we're growing our networkof practitioners, which allows
us to connect with a large hostof organizations and social
justice organizations down here,because it's like it's one
thing to be able to say, okay,I'm gonna even for myself, right

(41:49):
, even as an organizer, I wasorganizing like it felt like I
was working like 1516 hour dayswith a family and with young
children, and so I had I cameout of practice, right, and so I
had to like retrain myself in alot of ways, and so that's what
we're, what's literally theother capacity that we're

(42:10):
building with folks is to beable to say, actually, how do I
take care of myself, my familyand my community, and not just
community, family and self last,yeah, yeah, that's so important
right to not only preventburnout, which is often the way

(42:32):
that this is framed, but youknow you're a whole human being
who has spiritual, mental,physical, emotional needs and
those need to be honored, justbecause, right, so much of it is
.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, you want to like put on your oxygen, oxygen
mask so you can help otherpeople.
You want to like not pour froman empty cup, but you know
people also need to know thatthe internal work to heal
yourself is just for you.
Right, so you can be the bestyou can be, irrespective of the

(43:06):
work that you're doing on theday to day, whether that's
organizing or not.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
So, yeah, what, how we're doing it is so from size.
We we actually, when we started, we said that we were going to
do restorative justice as analternative to institutions.
So we don't do any circlekeeping in schools, we don't do
circle keeping in otherinstitutions, we do them in

(43:33):
community.
And so, how it happens, most ofit is word of mouth, where
people are like, oh, I know,folks are like, whether they're
abolitionists or whether they'recommunity folks who are just
like I want to do somethingdifferent, right, I know, okay,
I, from size, is doing this,right, so you guys can reach out

(43:55):
to from such, so reach out tofrom size.
And then we speak with people,we do one on one conversations
with folks to be able to betterunderstand, like, what their
needs are and, in the context oflike the larger kind of like
institutional things that arehappening, we really try our
best to partner withorganizations who are values
aligned, because what we foundis like we're not practicing

(44:19):
restorative justice ortransformative justice, because
we wanted to like, be likeadvocacy.
Right, we are practicing it.
Because we want to practice thenew way of being now, we want
to practice our ancestors way ofbeing now, like right now,
right, we are not trying todream of like the when the world

(44:40):
is abolition, like when there'sa world with no police will
dream it in circle right now,right.
So for us it's like, like we getan opportunity to get people
who are like, people who comefrom all walks of life Right,
who may have experienced likepolicing and may have
experienced like issues in theworkplace or in the schoolhouse,

(45:04):
but most of it is like what arethe relationships that need to
be strengthened?
And community outside of thepolice, what are the
relationships?
What are the, the, the like?
Sometimes it's like friends,right.
Sometimes it's comrades,sometimes it's parents and child
.
A lot of times it's like withinthe nonprofit world.

(45:28):
Sometimes it could be likeemployee supervisor, right, but
literally, what are theinfrastructures that we're
building outside of the stateand outside of the institutions
and a lot of people, I would say, whether they, if they may vibe
with it Right or not Right, andso they get to choose.
Again, we all have a choice.
They get to choose if they wantto ride this ride with us,

(45:50):
right, but we are very clearthat this is the direction that
we've moved into, right?

Speaker 1 (45:55):
So yeah, no, I think like that explicit statement of
like this work exists outside ofinstitutions is an important
like stake to put in the ground.
Like amplifier I J doesn't makethat stake Right.
We I frame that as like I'm notgoing to work directly with law
enforcement or like with thecriminal legal system, but we do

(46:18):
work in schools because, likethat is an institution that I'm
comfortable navigating to theextent possible.
Right, like there are reasonsthat, like restorative justice
will never like fully take rootin schools, no matter if you're
in Florida or if you're inCalifornia or in LA.
Right, because of policies thata district, a charter network,

(46:38):
even like a private school, has,and they are like legal things
around, like mandated reporting,title Nine, that like aren't
necessarily conducive torestorative justice ways of
being Right, not to mention,like we're all living under late
stage global capitalism andwhen people are in a place where
they're relying on theirlivelihood at a check like

(46:59):
you're not necessarily going toget the fullest expression of
themselves.
That being said, like how aboutyour boy, if you need support
doing restorative justice workwithin the context of schools or
your organizations?
Just not law enforcement, butlike having that clear
distinction for your practicelike gives you an orientation
towards like.
How is it that we can meet theneeds of our community without
these institutions?

(47:20):
And you know when you'retalking about, like those mutual
aid efforts?
Right, that's really helpfuland like.
This is what the incident, thisis what our society, our
culture, maybe individuals,these are the needs that have
been caused, these are the needsthat have been created.
What can we do within ourcapacity to meet those needs?
right, sometimes it can beframed as like what was going to

(47:41):
impact and how, and whoseresponsibilities, that to meet
these needs, make things asright or as right as possible,
without ever necessarily Likeidentifying like this person did
this thing.
It's just like what does thisrelationship need in that moment
?
And that's how your birthingcommunities right, both like
building those relationships,strengthening them, and like

(48:04):
that repair of harm process when, when it happens, you know you
talked about it in the contextof families organizations.
The other thing that I was likereally excited to talk to you
about is you know you saidthumbs size right, like the
midwife, right.
You've brought this like yourbirthing communities, but like

(48:24):
you are also somebody who helps,like birth babies.
How has the intersection ofrestorative justice with
reproductive justice been a partof your journey?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
So, yeah, so my journey of restorative justice
took me through a lot ofdifferent places.
I remember going to a sistersong convening and we were in
like different groups and andthis was after we had started
the black girls matter coalitionand I remember going there and
I was like talking aboutrestorative justice and I was

(48:56):
like, wow, as a parent, I Knewvery well, right as a mother, as
somebody who's birth children,I knew very well the principles
of reproductive justice, whichis the ability to have children,
not have children, and to raiseyour children, and safe and
healthy environments and forbodily autonomy, right.

(49:18):
And I remember going to theconvening and I was like talking
about restorative justice and Iwas like this is definitely a
tool that I use to be able totell stories, to be able to, at
the very least, create thecommunities that I want my
children to live in.
And I remember folks being like, yeah, that's true, that's good
, but it wasn't like somethingthat was like amplified right.

(49:40):
That same year I went to aconference with the Alliance for
Education Justice and Iremember speaking with folks and
I was like man, as a parent,again that you know,
reproductive justice issomething that is really
important, right, highlightingspecifically my ability or my

(50:02):
inability to raise my childrenand safe and healthy
environments because of allthese crazy policies that my
young people had to face inschools.
Right, and so At the time, Iwas like, okay, telling
everybody, I was likerestorative justice is
reproductive justice, because inorder for me, as a parent, to

(50:23):
raise my child in a safe andhealthy environment, restorative
justice is a tool to be able todo that right.
And so it felt like veryorganic and felt very clear.
Right At the time I was also, Iwas organizing, I was raising
children, and so there are manythings that I was doing,

(50:43):
including, like, ability to beable to kind of Reset right,
reset with my own family andreset with my own communities.
Right, I shared a little bitabout how I got into the journey
of fumsage, but we were doingSay her name rallies, we were

(51:03):
doing protests, we were doing somany things and I wasn't
personally, I wasn't taking careof myself as a parent, I wasn't
taking care of myself.
I ended up in the hospital Withthe pulmonary embolism, and it
was at that time, too, that Ihad to learn how to be a mom.
I had to relearn how to be amom, so I I shared also that

(51:29):
part of my learning was liketaking care of myself Was
important in taking care of myfamily and my community.
I had to reorient myself inthat.
I also learned at that timethat the maternal Black maternal
mortality rate was very highand that each of my pregnancies

(51:53):
I experienced Near-deathexperiences.
I had near-death experiences.
My first pregnancy I had anemergency C-section because of
preclamia.
My third pregnancy, I had apulmonary embolism.
Even my last pregnancy, justnow, I had some different issues

(52:14):
right, and so Each of thethings that I experienced were
things that I would say themedical industrial complex
doesn't care about black women.
And if not for understandingrestorative justice as a
practice of Also the integrationof our ancestors, I and many

(52:35):
people that I work with wouldn'tbe here Right, because we have
to take back a lot of what we'velost, Including the knowledge
and the wisdom that ourancestors have left around.
How do we Take care of eachother, right?
So for me myself, I'm not amidwife, I am a doula.
I support people in whatever,like I'm a full spectrum doula,

(52:58):
and so I support folks inwhatever care that they need.
And what I also understand isthat Because the medical
industrial complex doesn't care.
Then what do we need to do toprevent some, like people who
want to have children?
What do we need to do in orderfor them to prepare even way
before they decide to havechildren or not have children?

(53:20):
And a lot of those things haveto do with unpacking trauma and
when we sit in circle with folks, that's where the healing
starts or continues, wherepeople One of the first circles
that I was holding was weepingcircles, because for me, I was
holding so much trauma in mywomb and I wasn't releasing it,

(53:41):
and that led to a lot of thetraumatic births that I had
Right.
And so for us as practitionersis also being mindful that, like
Restorative justice, isreproductive justice, because it
gives us a tool to be able toaccess the justice for
individuals and for masses ofpeople.
Right and first, to be able,because, ultimately, the need,

(54:05):
ultimately at the, at any pointor at some point, whoever who's
responsible to meet that need,ultimately we are right a lot of
ways.
Ultimately we are in communityis Responsible for meeting those
needs right, and so we have todo those things within our
communities right with eachother.

(54:26):
And so Weeping circles, cryingcircles, led to my healing.
It led to many people's healingand for us at from size, that's
one of the types of circlesthat we continue to hold to be
able to be in vulnerability, torelease with each other and then
to move into A space of healing, in a space of growth in the

(54:47):
community.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about what
happens in those circles?
Confidentiality acknowledged.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
And so the reason why I did share a little bit about
the types of circles as we'resort of justice practitioners,
we have to always hold theintegrity of circles, because
there are many different.
There are many people doingcircles right.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
There are many people who sit in the circle, yeah,
and then there's In the circle,and there are many people who
are doing circles that are notRJ circles, and the reason why I
see that Is because for us aspractitioners, the integrity is
lies in the guidelines.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
So first we have to set the space right.
We have to set the space and beable to allow people to speak
from the heart, to listen fromthe heart right, to speak with
respect, and the one of the mostimportant guidelines is to be
able to hold the talking pieceright.
Some people, when people comeinto our circles, some people
have never gotten a chance, evenOkay, if you get a question, if

(55:52):
the first checking question isa how are you?
Some people don't even getasked that black women Don't get
asked how are you?
Most of the time it's like whatis it that I can get from you?
You know.
So then, when you ask somebody,you've already set the
guidelines.
We've built collective valueswith built consensus, and then

(56:12):
you ask them how are they?
Oh, my goodness, you just seetears.
You just see tears Because it'sheavy, because black women are
holding so much.
They're holding, we're holdingour families, we're holding, so
we're just trying to holdourselves together Right.
So in our circles we see peoplecrying, we see people telling

(56:36):
stories and then we see peoplelaying hands.
We have a lot of practitionersand healers, so people are
laying hands with each other andholding each other, singing
with each other and affirmingeach other in a lot of ways to
be able to Get through to thenext talk, to get the talking

(56:57):
piece to the next person Right.
And so the power for us, thepower of circles and the power
of the talking piece to be ableto listen right from our heart,
right and listen with respect,our, our guidelines and values
that we hold not just inside acircle but outside of circle too
, right.

(57:17):
And so in the circles, a lot oftimes, week by week or month by
month, we have people do likecandle demonstrations or reiki
or different healing tools thatpeople could be able to have
access to in their own healingjourneys as well.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, what's important there?
One of the things that'simportant to highlight is, right
, it's just being responsive tothe needs.
It's not just asking peoplelike, how are you?
Yeah once people bear theirsouls to you like, you have to
be responsive to that.
Sometimes all that's needed isto be there to hold and for

(57:57):
folks to be seen andacknowledged.
But when people arearticulating needs Right
physical needs, emotional needs,spiritual needs right, the
things that you can do with inthat space and outside of that
space where you're gathered in acircle in like that particular
way, is what builds andstrengthens community, allows

(58:18):
you to be in relationship inthat right way where you Can ask
each other for the hard things.
Um, and of course, like thehealing of all this is not
linear.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Right right.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
People come and go from those spaces.
Um, the At the conclusion of aparticular circle.
Not everyone's womb trauma islike 100% ready to go.
Let's have this orgasmic birth,right.
But you know, being in practice, like as we said from the

(58:56):
beginning of this conversation,is how we continue to do this
work.
Is there anything else that youwant to highlight before we
transition to the questions thateverybody answers Okay when
they come on this podcast?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
um, I mean, I think, like, as we as we move forward,
you know, with restorativejustice and being black led,
being women led, and as we moveforward and in the south, um,
what I would share with folks isto center blackness into center
black people in the south, tocenter black people in florida,

(59:33):
because a lot of times, um,although we're doing the work, a
lot of times there's a lot oferasure.
That happens Right.
Um, I'm sure I know it happenseverywhere, but florida is a
very special place and all eyesare on florida right now and so
Um Elevates.
I'm grateful that we're able tohave this conversation

(59:55):
continuing to amplify Our work.
Indigenous people, black peopleand center center folks who are
directly impacted Right, whetherit's reproductive injustice or
criminal legal system, whicheverway um, listen to our stories
right and find ways to Supportthe leadership of these

(01:00:19):
organizations, like fumsage,like power you, like the black
collective Miami workers centerfolks who are like down here,
who are really pushing theneedle.
Um, I would say, continue to tosee us.
We're gonna keep seeingourselves right, but it does
matter.
That is important to us tosupport the leadership of black

(01:00:41):
led organizations in southflorida, like Fumsage, power you
um the black collective Miamiworkers center, because so much
of so many resources are goingto organizing and like, kind of
all eyes on florida, right, um,and so many resources are coming
down, and, at the same time,many of our work is being erased

(01:01:05):
or ignored, right, and so wesee the white supremacy, we see
the racism, and so, though, forfolks who are listening, um,
support these organizationsright, because we're putting
those who are directly impactedby racism, by criminal legal
system, in leadership to be ableto create our own way of being.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, yeah, 100 percent, um and their resources
to all of those things going tobe down in the show notes up for
now, the questions thateverybody answers when they come
on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
In your own words, to find restorative justice so For
me, restorative justice is aspiritual practice to be able to
have folks better understandwhat is it that they need to be
able to move forward in ahealthy way.
What is it that a communityneeds to be able to move forward

(01:02:02):
in a healthy way?
And it gives us an opportunityto be heard and to be able to
build community outside of anyinstitutions, whether they care
for us or not.
We can build it out at all.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, as you've been doing this work,
what has been an oh shit momentand what did you learn from it?
And it can be like, oh shit, Imessed up.
But it could also be like, ahshit, I did that and it was
awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
And oh sh moment was is anytime that I don't trust my
intuition.
You know when you're sitting incircle and you're like you ask
a question and you know the typeof question that's going to
keep getting the room to keep itmoving.
You know that was that would belike anytime that I had that I

(01:03:03):
didn't trust my intuition.
And then, oh shoot, like I did,that moment is.
I mean one time we were holdinga circle after somebody was
Fidel Philandro Casil.
He was brutally murdered.
And we had a circle, we had acommunity building circle, and
there was somebody who came intocircle.

(01:03:24):
They weren't in the circle,they left and came back and they
came to disrupt the circle andthey were saying really harmful
things that I really don't evenneed to repeat now.
They were saying reallymisogynistic things that we
don't need to say in circle, andso I don't normally do this,

(01:03:49):
but in circle I stopped it.
I was like we're not doing this, this is not a space for
further harm, this is a spacefor healing.
And in that moment it felt likefolks were like, oh yeah, this
was definitely needed.
And then afterwards I was like,oh shoot, I wonder what would
have happened if we just let thecircle go and I didn't stop it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, the question of when to intervene in a circle
is always something that istouchy, especially in a
community that doesn't have deep, previously held relationships,
because sometimes you'll allowthat circle to take care of
itself.
You'll allow others in thatspace to say what's happening

(01:04:36):
right now isn't cool, on top ofwhatever else is going on in the
process.
But if it's a space wherepeople are looking to you for
leadership, for guidance, as afacilitator, probably because
they haven't had deep experiencein holding space themselves or
being in spaces like that, thatmight be the calculation that
you make and outside of yourintuition, I don't know that

(01:04:58):
there are hard and fast rules tofollow about that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
The hard and fast rule is to always listen to your
own ori.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
You get to sit in circle withfour people, living or dead.
Who are they?
What is the question that youask that circle?

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Wow, I would sit with .
I would ask Cecile Fatima tojoin the circle, who is the
Haitian woman who sparked theHaitian revolution.
Within ceremony.
I would ask Malcolm X to sit incircle because I would want to

(01:05:47):
know the wisdom that he gainedthat he was going to be sharing
back after he came back fromMecca.
I would want to hear more ofthat and even connect and speak
with him about Ifa, and I wouldlove to invite my mother to come
in circle with Cecile Fatimaand Malcolm X, and I would

(01:06:12):
invite one of my children to sitin circle with all of us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
And what is the one question you ask that circle.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
And the one question that I would ask is what do we
need to do to?
What is their take on what weneed to do to shift the current
conditions of capitalism andwhat does wealth building and

(01:06:45):
community healing and radical,transformative wealth building
and community healing andrestorative justice.
What does that look like?
What does it feel like?
What does it smell like?
What does it taste like?
That would be the story that Iwould want to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah, this is my sneaky way of asking the
questions that are at the coreof what you're thinking.
Answer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
You said what.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
What's your answer?

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Oh, the questions that I asked.
Oh, okay, so for me it feelslike.
It feels like I'm floating.
It feels like I'm so presentthat I'm floating and I'm
directly connected and I canhear and I can taste it, the

(01:07:39):
tasting of it.
It tastes like mangoes, likedelicious mangoes that I just
pulled off a Florida tree thatis so soft and so sweet.
And it looks like when you'relooking at the ocean and it's
like your eyes are slowly likedrifting and like looking and
gazing at the ocean, and itfeels free, it feels like

(01:08:02):
liberation and it feels likepossible.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I guess like the follow up to that is like how do
we get there?

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Yeah.
So we get there by beingpatient with each other, by
being loving towards each other.
I think in our conversationsometimes restorative justice
feels so easy to do but it'sactually really hard.
It's also really hard to be incircle and to sometimes there's

(01:08:35):
many times there's disagreement,many times that there's a hard
or harsh harm that has happened,that people don't know how to
feed themselves their way out.
And we get there.
We don't get there by ourselves.
We get there with community.
We get there by being incommunity with people who will

(01:08:55):
support us, who will be like, ah, let me dap you up or let me
high five you, or big up to you,but that those same community
have to be there to be like, ah,man, or you messed up, or how
can I support you?
To see it in a different way,or what is accountability like?
And asking those toughquestions.
So it looks like support andaccountability and we get there

(01:09:20):
by staying connected to ourancestors and staying connected
to understanding that the workthat we're doing now is to
impact the seven generationsthat are coming in, the seven
generations that have passed.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
You know, the links to connect with your work are
down below.
How can people support you andyour work in the ways that you
want to be supported?

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Oh, wow, in the ways that I want to be supported.
So the I want people to supportfrom Sasha.
You can go to our website fromSashaorg.
I would love it if you can.
You can purchase a sacred or reaffirmation card deck.
You could donate to our work.

(01:10:07):
You could get involved byparticipating in a training or a
workshop that we're doing.
Follow us on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Beautiful and, of course, like all of those things
, will be linked below.
Thank you so much forcontinuing.
Thank you so much for being apart of our continued series
highlighting restorative justicework in the South.
If you're somebody who is inthe South and is interested in
continuing to connect incommunity, the Florida
restorative justice associationis hosting a conference this
October.

(01:10:36):
Links to that again in thedescription or show notes
wherever you're watching orlistening.
But thank you all so much forbeing here and bearing witness
to this transformativeconversation with Ruth.
We'll be back next week withsomeone else living this
restorative justice life.
Until then, take care.