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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Heyo, David here.
Restored of Justice Reflectionswas created as a video first
medium because we're includingvideo clips from the shows we're
talking about.
You can still hear our fullconversation here with the audio
from the clip, but for the fullexperience and to see our
beautiful faces, head over toour YouTube page link below.
If you're only going podcastsor your thing, please bear with
(00:20):
the mentions of video and clipsand use your imagination.
Enjoy.
Welcome back to Restored ofJustice Reflections.
(00:50):
I'm David, Ryan Bresega, CastorHarris all five names for all
the ancestors and today I'm herewith Deanna Smith to dive deep
into the restorative themes orlack thereof, found in Season 1,
Episode 12 of ABC's AbbaElementary Ava vs Superintendent
.
As always, our conversationhere is not a critique of the
story or production choices ofthe creators, but we'll
highlight how Restored ofJustice could apply to
(01:11):
situations like leading yourleaders, sacrificing your own
interests for the good of thecommunity and maybe compromising
your values in order to get thejob done.
Hopefully, this will give yousome insight about how to apply
restorative ways of being intoyour life in and out of the
classroom.
If you want to take a deeperlook at applying Restored of
Justice to your life, join ourInner Circle community to
connect with RJ-mindedindividuals and get bonus
(01:32):
content.
Deepen your practice bychecking out our courses and, if
you want to see this work inyour school or organization,
invite us for coaching ortraining on implementing this
work.
Of course, links to everythingdown below.
Now let's get to it.
I want to welcome Dr DeannaSmith into this podcast.
Deanna, welcome, how are youtoday?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
I'm doing well.
I'm really excited to jump intothis conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Beautiful and tell the people what you want them to
know about you, your journeywith education, your fandom of
this show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, so, as mentioned, my name is Dr Deanna
Smith and I am a former teacher,taught fifth grade,
intervention, middle school,math, a bunch of different
things.
I also was a director of equityand inclusion and worked in
schools as an assistantprincipal and, like various
leadership roles, dean, thatkind of thing.
(02:29):
I have a lot of firsthandexperience with restorative
practices and how to do themwell and also how to do them not
so well.
And now I'm also working on abook that will be released later
this summer and really mypassion is talking about
asset-based pedagogies likeanti-racist teaching and
culture-responsive teaching andreally infusing them with joy
(02:51):
and making them very accessiblefor teachers.
And when I started watchingAbbott, it was really just kind
of love at first episode.
I love the way that KintaBronson is very like down for
teachers and supports teachersand I think the episodes do a
great job of showing some of thereality realities of teaching
while still making it fun and,you know, still something that
(03:13):
you can watch with like somepopcorn and enjoy, and my little
routine is I watch an episodeevery Sunday to help me with the
Sunday scaries.
So I'm very excited to bechatting about what has become
one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Beautiful, beautiful.
This episode 12, ava vsSuperintendent might be like the
most challenging episode for meto do this show about.
Right, because we have lots ofarcs that are coming to you
ahead and, like almost all ofthe characters, are making
choices that I wouldn'tnecessarily call restorative,
(03:47):
and so you know, as we thinkabout this, I really appreciate
the conversation that we've hadbefore this to like make those
connections and pull out thosemoments.
So, as a whole, thank youWikipedia for the summary.
With Ava's job and the schoolfunding in Jeopardy, janine asks
Gregory to help her and Avawith the important upcoming
(04:09):
presentation to the school boardpleading for funds.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
We need to find someone who knows what
presentations like this shouldlook like.
I know how you feel about Avaand the whole principal
situation, but this is for thekids.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It feels like it's for Ava.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah, but it'd be for all of us too.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
There is a lot going on here, but when you first
watched this episode, you know,with a restorative lens, what
stood out to you.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah.
So I first watched this episodeand kind of rewatched it with a
restorative lens.
A lot of different, justrelationships stood out to me
and I think you know, obviouslyrestorative practices and just
anything pertaining to teaching.
You have to have a really goodgrasp and understanding of
relationships and the dynamicsbetween people and so the
(04:58):
relationships like whetherthat's Melissa and Barbara's
relationship kind of havingstrain throughout the episode,
or that is Janine and Gregory'srelationship with Ava, or even
Ava's relationship, you know,with the school board and the
superintendent there were somany relationships that were
like hanging in the balance.
(05:20):
But on the other side it's the,it's the well-being of these
kids, right, it's the they andit opens with the kids like they
love the music class, it's liketheir favorite class, right,
and the teachers are gettingthat break that we know that
they need, must have a prep, andso you kind of open with seeing
like wow, the, the lives ofthese kids and like even the
(05:41):
music teacher.
All this stuff is hanging inthe balance and it's really
dependent on all of these likerelationships that don't really
have anything to do with thewell-being of the kids, right.
They're kind of just kind ofpetty adult dynamic
relationships.
So that's a really stood out tome is like, wow, this is a lot
of intricate relationships andin the balance is this school,
the Abad elementary kids thatyou know want their, want their
(06:03):
music class.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, and what I love about that is a lot of times
when people are thinking aboutrestorative justice in schools,
right, they're just thinkingabout, like, student to student
dynamics or student to teacherdynamics.
But when we think about therelational dynamics that are
happening amongst the adults thenature of those relationships
being restorative, punitive,oppositional or whatever like
(06:25):
that does have a very realimpact on the students.
Here it's tied to funding, butthere are lots of other impacts
that that might have on studentson the day to day.
When we see this episode beingframed around funding, that
brings up a lot in schools.
We all know that schools inlarge parts are underfunded,
(06:46):
both from staff admin salariesand resources for supplies,
resources for extra programming,like there is a lack of that,
and so you know, the episodeframes this in a rather limited
way.
We know that school funding isa lot more complicated than
making a presentation to a boardor, you know, extorting a
church member.
(07:07):
But this is a real issue andwhat I really appreciate about
what happened in this episode islike there are multiple ways of
getting things done right.
Ava fails, even with thesupport of Gregory and Jeannie.
Ava fails to secure fundingBased on what you've shown us so
far what metrics are yourfunding targets keyed to?
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Thank God you brought that up.
I was like I hope he asks abouttargeting or whatnot, because I
have another slide.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I think we've seen all we need to see here today.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Thanks for coming in Because of the relationship the
strange relationship she haswith the superintendent right,
and while I don't agree with hermethods, barbara, with the
coaching of Melissa, is able tosecure funds through this grant
that she's been applying to foryears and years.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I have good news.
Oh really.
Regarding Regarding the factthat Abbott will be a recipient
of the Advancement Grant thisyear.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What a surprise.
After 10 years of impeccableapplications, we suddenly find
ourselves worthy.
How wonderful.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know yay episode has a happy ending.
School funding is a lot morecomplicated than that.
As we're thinking aboutspecifically like restorative
justice programs coming in,those things need to be
supported by funding both fortraining for educators,
consultants like myself,amplifierjcom.
But it's also like a time andcapacity issue, right when we're
(08:40):
thinking about when is thislearning going to happen?
Are you going to have fundingfor substitute teachers to come
in and support staff whenthey're going to do their
training?
Are you going to have fundingfor additional staff, whether
it's deans or a quote unquoterestorative justice coordinator,
to do all this Like that?
Money has to come fromsomewhere and you know we got to
(09:01):
get creative about the waysthat we do that when we think
about school funding.
In this episode, what were thethings that came up for you?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I mean, I have a little PTSD Funding was such a
.
For folks who don't alreadyknow, I started my career at a
parochial school, so not so itwas really challenging to get
funny because I was inCalifornia so there aren't a lot
of state funds for Catholicschools.
So when I was just thinkingabout, you know, the
(09:33):
presentations usually in apublic school you wouldn't do
that.
But like we would literallyhave to do presentations to get
funding to like keep our doorsopen at times, and so I was put
back in that mindset.
I was like, oh my gosh, thatwas terrible.
But I think what?
What?
The show does a good job ofdoing and it obviously
exaggerates it a little bit.
But you would be surprised howmuch funding is just about
(09:56):
schmoozing and knowing the rightpeople.
And so I think what was comingup for me was like I wonder if
people understand that this iskind of satirical, of course,
but there is a good amount ofyou know networking and you know
finagling.
Obviously I'm hoping peoplearen't extorting their you know
their church members, people intheir congregation.
(10:18):
But there is a little bit offinagling that has to happen for
school funding.
So I was thinking about thatand then just obviously within
that, the sad reality that thatis.
You know, schools are oftenfaced with music programs being
cut or just things being cut andthere's really no way for
principals or teachers to haveagency to change that and this
(10:41):
you know.
You see Janine and Gregory andEva kind of able to make their
case, but a lot of times inreality when things get cut or
things go away, that's just kindof it, you know.
So it was really interesting tosee the parallels in reality
and then the things that are alittle bit different with the
way that school funding actuallyworks, at least in my
experience.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, it's not so much that like this is something
that is based on like needs,because all of schools have
needs, right, all schools aredeserving of more funding, right
.
And so you know, to pit schoolsagainst each other and like
this presentation, like you'llget it versus you'll get it.
Like you know, sometimes we dohave to make the choices with
the limited financial resourcesthat are available.
(11:22):
But like the way that schoolsare funded, especially in the
public sector and you know, withthe rise of charter schools,
which you know will address inthe next season, you like is
really complicated and you knowthe show gives us a version of
that.
And you know, thankfully Barbis able to figure out some ways
(11:43):
to get the music program savedand all of that.
But that's not always thereality for schools.
And then people have to getcreative.
We've seen the ways that Abbottteachers do that with other
things over the years.
But you know that's where weend up in this episode.
For now, while Eva did fail atsecuring the funding for Abbott
going into the next year, right,the it wasn't for lack of
(12:06):
trying from Gregory and Jeanine.
And while we're not thinkingabout Eva so much as like school
leader because, like she's nota great school leader For a
number of reasons.
It's really interesting tothink about her as a student of
Gregory and Jeanine and you know, as you were watching this
episode, you were saying thatlike this reminded you so much
(12:28):
of the ways that you had to workwith some of the students under
your care who, like, werereally struggling.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, I think Eva, like if you, if you're
trying to glean anything, orlike learn something from this
episode or or unpack somethingfrom this episode I think the
lens of Eva as a student andJeanine and Gregory as the as
her teachers, is a is a betterway to understand kind of what I
I work with a lot of teacherson which is a few, a few
(12:58):
understandings about, like, justkids and the way people learn.
But people are in general.
So one thing that you know wewere talking about is Eva is not
great in so many ways andJeanine, gregory deal with the
direct repercussions of that.
Like they, she, she puts themthrough it, like the whole
school is going through it,because Eva is incompetent and
(13:20):
obviously this is anexaggeration, but there are
incompetent principles all overthe country, I'm sure.
So I think, understanding thatlike, yeah, eva does have a lot
of these problems, but you seeJeanine and Gregory with a
really humanizing approach tohelping her and I think that
that is really meaningful.
You see them really meet herwhere she's at, and that's
(13:43):
something that I really like totalk about with my teachers that
I'm working with.
I think you also see them.
You know, give her, give hermultiple chances, you know,
fresh starts.
That's something that is reallyimportant when you're thought,
when you're thinking abouthaving a humanistic approach and
you see them use all of thesereally important tactics and
(14:05):
moves that I think teachers needto use with their students.
But I think also, you know,without spoiling like where the
whole, where the whole seriesgoes, eva is also somebody that,
like you are, you're rootingfor her to have a redemption, or
at least I am like at thispoint she's pretty bad and
you're rooting for her to likekind of get it together, because
(14:25):
they give her these moments oflike okay, like, yeah, eva kind
of gets it.
Like in this episode she, youknow, she does kind of make her
case for Abbott In anotherepisode she has these moments
where you're like okay, like shekind of does, like she cares.
So you're rooting for her.
But you also recognize thatlike it's not going to happen
overnight, and I think Janina,gregory do a great job of
(14:46):
modeling that like when you'reworking with a challenging
student or challenging situation, it's just it's not an
overnight thing.
A lot of time you're plantingseeds, and so I think there's so
much about how Janine andGregory approach Eva.
That is actually, you know, agood, a good example of what it
can look like to have a aneffective approach with students
(15:06):
that you're struggling with.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, students, or like your colleagues, right,
this is just about you know howwe we teach humans, how humans
learn, how humans develop newskills, right, I do appreciate
how Gregory and Janine you knowthey got shut down by the
superintendent, but they weregoing to be standing like right
beside Eva, accompanying her,doing the thing that they could
to support her, not justthrowing her out on her own,
(15:30):
saying like, alright, you learnthis, alright, go and go and do
like she was unequipped to dothat.
Right, she does have strengthsand I think you know one of the
core assumptions of restorativejustice that, like you know, all
human beings have gifts andeveryone's needed for what they
bring.
Eva being charismatic in thatway, like is a great help, like
(15:50):
the speech that she does give atthe end.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
No, you're not about to rush me out of here like I'm
a little mom at the VMAs,because you know what?
No matter what happens to me,abbott will be fine because the
teachers that work there aresome of the most dedicated,
hardworking and creativeteachers in this entire city.
You tell him, eva, and it's notlike y'all been making a rain
up in here.
(16:14):
We've been taking appetizermoney and giving these kids a
charcuterie experience.
Don't give us the money becausewe need it.
Give it to us because everyoneat Abbott deserves it.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Like was really great , really well thought out and
really did like pull up theheartstrings of you know, at
least some of the members of theschool board, and that's needed
Gregory and Jeanine might haveprovided like a lot more
substance to all of that andagain, it wouldn't have mattered
because the superintendent andeven like have beef.
But you know, when we thinkabout doing things together and
(16:46):
not just putting people eitheras leaders or as solo
practitioners like, it's not alljust on one person.
Like the ways that we cancollaborate, using the strengths
of multiple people in ourcommunities, like can help us go
a lot further.
Right, and so thinking aboutthat in at the intersection of
you know, should Eva continue tobe the principal of this school
(17:09):
, like is a really hard thing tograsp.
We know we have Gregory likeopenly ask that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Maybe the best thing for the school in the long run
is for her to fail and they geta new principal Not necessarily
me, just a new one who is likeGregory means somebody who has,
like training and educationalleadership.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, assume this role.
I would say yes, right.
I think it's something that isreally helpful to think about
when you're making changes orwhen you're trying to accomplish
goals is, when you make changeslike that, there is going to be
loss there.
There will be things you lose,right.
In this case, it might be likelosing a core member of you know
(17:53):
, the, the show cast or the, orthe school community, right, but
what is that?
A lot, what is that growth?
What is removing that person?
Allow growth for right.
I like to lean on the metaphorof you know, growing plants all
the time within, likerestorative justice work, and
(18:14):
you know we plant seeds, and inorder for seeds to grow, of
course they need food, sunlight,water, all these things.
They also need, like, space togrow, and so, like, if there are
weeds or rocks encumbering thegrowth of a community or a plant
, right, do those things need tobe removed In this case?
Right, eva, being theincompetent school leader that
(18:36):
she is, like, is probably bestserved.
Like, her talents are probablybest served like in some
marketing role somewhere.
Right, like and it's not to saylike cancel Eva as a person but
like you're not the best personwho is equipped to do this job.
Maybe Gregory is, maybe it'ssomebody else and, of course,
like for casting reasons and youknow continuity of the show and
(18:59):
you know the comedy that Evabrings like she remains a member
of the community.
But really thinking about, asyou're making, changes like what
is acceptable loss, who are thepeople that we're willing to
lose is a really importantconversation to think through as
you're trying to do things thatyou think are for the benefit
of your school community.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and I think it's really clear like again, I
don't wanna spoil anythingbecause there's a lot of changes
that happen, but I think it'sreally meaningful to recognize
that when you see people andyou're thinking about, like,
what does it mean to likereappropriate?
I like almost reappropriate,right, Like we would lose Eva in
(19:42):
one sense, maybe as principal,but then, yeah, what are her
gifts and what does she bringand how might she, you know,
maybe serve even better in adifferent role?
And really tapping intowhatever her unique genius is
and whether that's like socialmedia coordinator for the
district because it seems likethat's one of her unique talents
is like social media or justlike being a personality or
(20:04):
whatever it is.
But I think there's a lot tosay.
And, you know, putting peoplein roles where they were
flourishing.
In this episode they kind ofallude to maybe Gregory being
the person that would flourish,and I don't know if that's true
either.
You know we haven't seen whatthat could look like, so who
knows?
But I really think that there'sa lot for folks to reflect on
(20:26):
in just the ways that theserelationships are kind of
unfolding and mirror how that'sunfolding in their classroom or,
yeah, with their colleagues.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean.
I think it's also reallyimportant to think about.
You know, the harm that wouldcome with Eva continuing to be
the school leader, right, andyou know this is played for
laughs, and you know she doeshave somewhat of a redemption
arc in season two, right, butyou know, while Gregory and
Jeanine were trying to getfunding, trying to support Eva
(20:58):
in order to get more funding forthe students, right, somebody
else in that role, like, couldhave opened up one, just like
more funding opportunities.
But two, right, probably takenlike better or more care of the
school resources that werealready available.
Right, not blinging out theschool bus with you know 26 inch
(21:21):
ribs right, or you know, Idon't think that, like having
lotion across school isnecessarily a bad thing, right.
Like Eva is creative and likedoes care about the needs and
the aesthetic needs of peoplearound it.
Like I don't want to belittlethat, but there are so many
other ways that the school couldhave flourished with you know,
(21:41):
somebody else more equipped forthat role.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
If you're appreciating this video.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
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Subscribe so you won't miss thevideo and share it with someone
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Now back to the show.
On the other side of thisepisode, you know, we do have
Gregory questioning whether ornot he should be gunning for the
principal role.
Gregory at it right.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's good to see you again.
You know I'm sorry I couldn'thire you as principal, but my
hands are tied To the bed,Pardon, Not that.
Look, if you're stillinterested in being principal, I
think maybe some positionsmight be opening up, even at
Abbott.
So if you're interested, emailme.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In the end, though, the email he sends ends up being
to Ava.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
I saw your little email.
I know that's why I'm sittinghere.
Well, welcome to teach a fulltime at Abbott, Mr Eddie.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Thank you.
There's a lot of differencebetween, you know, doing
administrative school leadershipwork and doing like on the
ground, classroom teacher work.
You know Gregory's commitmentto continuing to learn and grow
in this way is a choice.
What came up for you, like assomebody who's played both roles
(23:03):
.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, and I think that was honestly.
I had a lot of respect forGregory in that moment because
you know, if y'all remember notspoiling anything because you've
already unpacked the previousepisodes but if y'all remember,
you know Gregory wasn't ateacher, so he was going to be a
(23:26):
principal without being ateacher and I think that's
something about the show that'snot satirical.
I think that there are lots ofpeople that you know are go
through these programs that aremeant to like get you ready for
school leadership and they don'tnecessarily have classroom
experience.
In fact, in my own life I havea close friend that kind of
wanted a career change and hewas sort of just like I think
(23:47):
I'm just going to go be aprincipal and I was kind of like
what?
Like he never taught oranything like that, you know,
and he worked at a nonprofit andhe was like I think I want to
be a principal and I was like Ijust don't think that that's
appropriate if you've nevertaught in a classroom, like I
couldn't imagine that.
But because there's such ashortage y'all, they actually
like he was actually set up toget a job, like he could have
(24:08):
gotten a principal job neverhaving taught.
So I think that that part is notsatirical, but I had a lot of
respect for Gregory and wantingto stay in the classroom and
learn more, because I think thatthat's and whether he does it
like ultimately, like his grandplan is to stay in the classroom
to learn more or to, you know,usurp Ava from the inside.
(24:29):
I don't know what hisgrandmaster plan is, but the
impact of not jumping intoleadership, even though he was
offered that role, and likestaying in a school, I think
that landed with me as somethingthat was a really good choice
for him and showed what weshould be doing, like you should
be teaching before yourprincipal personally, is my
(24:49):
belief.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah for sure, because you know there's so many
people who are in schoolleadership who have no idea what
they're asking their teachersto do on the daily right, both
in like the lesson planning andlike overall classroom
management, but also in thenuanced ways that you have to
exhibit care to.
You know the 30 or you know Morestudents that you are dealing
(25:11):
with every single day.
Right, it's easy enough for aprincipal or a school leader to
say like hey, we're rolling outthis program.
Here's the thing, go, do it.
It's another thing to haveexperience.
That experience the impact ofDecisions coming down from on
high right and not like reallybeing consulted about how that
is going to impact people, likebeing able to Empathize through
(25:34):
having experienced that is soimportant and I think it makes
for a much more empatheticleadership for people who have
Been able to embody that role.
And that's not to say thatpeople who are principals, like
aren't capable of doing the jobWell if they weren't teachers.
But it is so much more helpfulto have that experience and yeah
(25:56):
, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
It's just really interesting to see kind of going
back to seeing Eva, as you know, like a student role and how
Jeanine and Gregory areSupporting her, you know, and
kind of maybe helping her in herdevelopment as a principal, in
their in their teacher role.
And I think that the schoolwe've seen in past episodes and
(26:17):
we're gonna see in futureepisodes that the teachers
really do do a good job ofrallying around Eva and
supporting her when she needssupport and she does sometimes
not always, but she doessometimes show up for them.
But I think what's also clear is, at the end of the day, the
commitment to the kids issomething that you see and I
(26:38):
know we, you know I don'tbelieve in in a narrative of
supporting like a toxiccommitment to the kids, like so
committed to your school thatyou're Staying even though you
know your mental health is atstake or you don't have good
boundaries.
But I think that it is reallygreat to see the way that Abbott
displays that, at the end ofthe day, like teachers are very
much oriented towards Centeringtheir kids and getting it done
(27:00):
for their kids and in thatmoment Gregory is, you know,
doing something for himselfbecause he's learning more.
But he's also, you know, movingout of a sub role and really
saying like I'm in this, I'mcommitted to these kids in the
school and helping it be thebest place that it can be,
because he obviously sees, youknow, the magic of Abbott and
knows that he can play a role inthat.
So I think it's just a reallybeautiful moment for that
character.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, and a beautiful moment now that he has human
resources at his back.
You know, prevent like moresexual harassment from Eva.
You know Some kind ofredemption for him there as well
.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, yeah, hr workshop.
She did not go to the mandatorytraining.
I'll tell you that, likeclearly.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Most definitely.
You know, while we don't agreewith, like Barbara and Melissa's
schemes to get funding, like itwas effective, but what came
out of that is a moment that Iwanted to highlight was this
moment of Barbara looking downon Melissa's time.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I saw you two set apart is when Melissa said you
should put sugar on grits.
There's nothing to talk aboutyet because it's very
straightforward we're underattack and she's got her head
buried in the sand.
Better the sand than the mud,Okay?
You refusing to cooperatedoesn't stop bad things from
happening.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
We should be using people doing bad stuff to do
good stuff for our kids sayinglike I don't think of myself as
someone who like gets down inthe mud like you, right, and you
know we have Melissa and Jacobto some extent saying like you
know, if we don't do anythinglike, we are going to lose and
this might be the only way forus to go and get this funding.
(28:35):
And you know we have to balance.
You know how we hold our valuesand our actions on the on the
daily right.
They made a choice that youknow Maybe less than ethical,
less than moral.
It got the job done.
We're often confronted withthose choices every day, but
what it's important for me totake away from this is like not
(28:57):
to judge other people for takingactions that, like we ourselves
Wouldn't take.
There's some things like forlegal reasons or for like that
you might like draw hard linesas boundaries for yourself, but
you don't know everybody's story, you don't know everybody's
background and you know the waythat Melissa has been able to
finesse her way through life andlike her teaching career.
(29:19):
There's some things to beadmired from that and we
shouldn't like wholly dismisslike somebody's method of doing
things just because, like thatdoesn't fit with the way that we
would want to do things.
Yeah, and I love me someMelissa, like I love her,
because I mean I I, I understandit's question.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It's questionable ethically, but you know one
thing about her is she's a verygood person.
She's a very good person andshe's a very good person and
she's a very good person andshe's a very good person and
she's a very good person and Ithink her is she's gonna get it
done like she's committed to thekids and I think her and
Barbara are such realistic likeoh geez, I don't know if you've
had the experience of workingwith these people, but in every
(30:06):
school I've been in, there'sbeen like a couple of ladies
like Barbara and Melissa, thatare just kind of like they know
what's up and they really help.
You understand a lot about whatsustainability in this
profession looks like, what itmeans to stay in this profession
, because you got to remember,so many teachers like two thirds
of teachers aren't eventeaching after five years, right
, so our turnover is crazy.
So when we have people likethat that have really been in it
(30:28):
, I think it's really cool tosee how they interact with their
jobs and and how they, how,what models they can show us,
even if it's what not to do.
But yeah, I love, I love theirdynamic.
They are like my two of myfavorite characters on the show.
They're hilarious.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Right and like the way that they were able to
navigate past that right therewith their long term
relationship.
Right, there are bound to bedisagreements between people.
Right and the way that you'reable to value relationships and
not write people off and haveRestorative conversations maybe
not like with what happened,who's impacted and how and how
(31:05):
to what.
How do we adjust the needs tomake things right as possible?
But like saying makingapologies right, admitting when
you're wrong or Acknowledgingwhen you've caused somebody harm
and figuring out a way to moveforward is something that we can
see that they have definitelypracticed over years and years
of being colleagues and friends.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, yeah, they are there.
A relationship is a reallyhealthy model, I think, for
people and the way that theypush each other and the way that
they support each other andshow up for each other, like and
I think it's.
It's funny too because if, ifyou know about the actors like I
guess they're Like that inperson, to like they're like bfs
in person, which I just lovethat fact because I think their
chemistry shows that in the show.
(31:47):
But I think they're a reallygreat, like I said, a really
great model to look at and Ithink there is like.
The unfortunate reality of someof that is, though, is I know
that there is a little bit ofyou know finessing I'm not going
to call it scheming, I'm gonnacall it finessing that sometimes
you do have to do, you know,when you work in school, so
(32:09):
there's definitely a reality toit, because sometimes you got to
you know, bob, and weave alittle bit, make it work to to
get, to get what you need to getdone.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Is there anything else from theepisode that you wanted to
highlight before we ask you thequestions that everyone answers
when they come on?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I don't think so, but I just think it's a really.
It's a really interestingepisode.
I would say it's definitelyworth a rewatch with the lens of
relationships and how peopleare like working together as
colleagues and working tosupport each other.
And just looking at the again,I think Janina is probably a
great example of this in anyepisode because she does have
(32:51):
just infinite page patients.
But I think it's reallybeautiful to kind of look at and
see how, how they care for eachother, how they show up for
each other and as deeply flawedpeople, right, because even
Marvara, melissa, like you know,and even the lady on the school
board is like skimming pettycash from, like the church fund,
(33:11):
right.
So everybody is flawed in thisepisode.
Everybody is, you know.
So I think it's kind of a niceway to reflect on, you know,
interacting, because we're allflawed in different ways, to
different extents and some of usare in positions of power,
which makes our flaws moreharmful, like Ava.
But I think it's just reallyinteresting to watch it with
that lens.
(33:31):
So definitely give it a rewatch.
And, yeah, I think there's alot to glean with how we show up
with our students, with eachother.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Beautiful, beautiful.
You've heard from us.
Now we want to hear from you.
Drop your restorative justicereflections in the comments and,
if you want to join a livecommunity conversation about our
restorative justice lessonsfrom Ava Elementary, join us for
a live event on Monday, july 31.
Link with more info in thedescription.
So you've got the ear of Quintaand the writers, so you can
(34:04):
pitch yourself as a character onAva Elementary and what would
be your arc.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So coming in as a you know DEI consultant to support
the teachers would be really funmaybe not every episode, but
like every few episodes as arecurring character, somebody
that is right in betweendispositionally like Barbara and
Ava Because I think Ava's kindof on the far end of like the
crazy spectrum, so I wouldn't bequite that crazy, but still
(34:42):
probably a comedic character andjust coming in and helping the
teachers, you know, with somesort of like district wide DEI
initiative and maybe kind ofpoking fun at Jacob a little bit
for his like hyper awareness ofbeing like a white guy and in a
mostly black school and kind ofmaybe getting the side eye from
Barbara and Melissa, because Ithink a lot of teachers kind of
(35:05):
give consultants the side eye atfirst but then slowly kind of
growing to gain their respectand appreciation and working
with the teachers, because wedon't see a lot of how they
handle it.
We don't see a lot of like crazybehaviors for kids.
We don't see a lot of how theyhandle it.
We don't see a lot of DEI work.
So I would love to do that andI think it could be really
current because there's all thisstuff in the, in the national
(35:27):
discourse now about DEI andschool.
So I think it could be a kindof fun way to bring in like
what's actually happening in thenational conversation as a
recurring like districtconsultant role.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Absolutely.
I would love to see it Like Ithink about the limits of
putting the show on ABC to anational audience, but you know,
from your ear, from your mouthto Quinta, and the right is ears
.
Let's make it happen.
Thank you again so much forbeing here with us, sharing your
stories, your wisdom, yourexperiences.
How can people support you,deanna, and the ways that you
(36:02):
want to be supported?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah.
So if you're not alreadyfollowing me on Instagram,
that's definitely the place tobe.
That's where I kind of buildthis community of educators
across the country who arededicated to joyful the culture,
responsive classroom spaces.
So make sure you check me outat.
Deanna Smith it's just my nameto you and an as my T H and I'm
really excited to be publishinga book.
(36:25):
I'm not sure when this episodewill be coming out, but the book
comes out August 8.
And if you buy it during presale, you get access to a free
workshop with, like all theinformation even more
information on implementing thestrategies that I talk about in
the book.
And the book is called rootedin joy and it's all about
creating a joyful, inclusiveclassroom space of belonging so
(36:46):
a lot of the things that wetalked about here, but really
making that doable.
I'm really focused onstrategies and frameworks and
specific practices for teachers.
To me, it's like it's a selfcare issue, is a sustainability
issue.
I know our classrooms are notspaces where our students feel
supported, but then our teachersalso don't feel supported
either.
So really working to hopefullyclose that gap with this book.
(37:10):
So check that out.
It's called rooted enjoy.
It is available on Amazon andBarnes and Noble.
And yeah, like I said, if youfollow me on Instagram, there's
info for my mailing list, and wejust create a fun community of
teachers who are passionateabout this work and are also
multifaceted, so I'd love foryou to join me over there.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Beautiful, beautiful and of course all of those
things will be linked down belowwill be back very soon,
recapping, analyzing, reflectingon the season finale of season
one of Abba elementary zooballoon.
Thank you,
Heyo, David here.
Restored of Justice Reflectionswas created as a video first
medium because we're includingvideo clips from the shows we're
talking about.
You can still hear our fullconversation here with the audio
from the clip, but for the fullexperience and to see our
beautiful faces, head over toour YouTube page link below.
If you're only going podcastsor your thing, please bear with
(00:20):
the mentions of video and clipsand use your imagination.
Enjoy.
Welcome back to Restored ofJustice Reflections.
(00:50):
I'm David, Ryan Bresega, CastorHarris all five names for all
the ancestors and today I'm herewith Deanna Smith to dive deep
into the restorative themes orlack thereof, found in Season 1,
Episode 12 of ABC's AbbaElementary Ava vs Superintendent
.
As always, our conversationhere is not a critique of the
story or production choices ofthe creators, but we'll
highlight how Restored ofJustice could apply to
(01:11):
situations like leading yourleaders, sacrificing your own
interests for the good of thecommunity and maybe compromising
your values in order to get thejob done.
Hopefully, this will give yousome insight about how to apply
restorative ways of being intoyour life in and out of the
classroom.
If you want to take a deeperlook at applying Restored of
Justice to your life, join ourInner Circle community to
connect with RJ-mindedindividuals and get bonus
(01:32):
content.
Deepen your practice bychecking out our courses and, if
you want to see this work inyour school or organization,
invite us for coaching ortraining on implementing this
work.
Of course, links to everythingdown below.
Now let's get to it.
I want to welcome Dr DeannaSmith into this podcast.
Deanna, welcome, how are youtoday?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
I'm doing well.
I'm really excited to jump intothis conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Beautiful and tell the people what you want them to
know about you, your journeywith education, your fandom of
this show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, so, as mentioned, my name is Dr Deanna
Smith and I am a former teacher,taught fifth grade,
intervention, middle school,math, a bunch of different
things.
I also was a director of equityand inclusion and worked in
schools as an assistantprincipal and, like various
leadership roles, dean, thatkind of thing.
(02:29):
I have a lot of firsthandexperience with restorative
practices and how to do themwell and also how to do them not
so well.
And now I'm also working on abook that will be released later
this summer and really mypassion is talking about
asset-based pedagogies likeanti-racist teaching and
culture-responsive teaching andreally infusing them with joy
(02:51):
and making them very accessiblefor teachers.
And when I started watchingAbbott, it was really just kind
of love at first episode.
I love the way that KintaBronson is very like down for
teachers and supports teachersand I think the episodes do a
great job of showing some of thereality realities of teaching
while still making it fun and,you know, still something that
(03:13):
you can watch with like somepopcorn and enjoy, and my little
routine is I watch an episodeevery Sunday to help me with the
Sunday scaries.
So I'm very excited to bechatting about what has become
one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Beautiful, beautiful.
This episode 12, ava vsSuperintendent might be like the
most challenging episode for meto do this show about.
Right, because we have lots ofarcs that are coming to you
ahead and, like almost all ofthe characters, are making
choices that I wouldn'tnecessarily call restorative,
(03:47):
and so you know, as we thinkabout this, I really appreciate
the conversation that we've hadbefore this to like make those
connections and pull out thosemoments.
So, as a whole, thank youWikipedia for the summary.
With Ava's job and the schoolfunding in Jeopardy, janine asks
Gregory to help her and Avawith the important upcoming
(04:09):
presentation to the school boardpleading for funds.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
We need to find someone who knows what
presentations like this shouldlook like.
I know how you feel about Avaand the whole principal
situation, but this is for thekids.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It feels like it's for Ava.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah, but it'd be for all of us too.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
There is a lot going on here, but when you first
watched this episode, you know,with a restorative lens, what
stood out to you.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah.
So I first watched this episodeand kind of rewatched it with a
restorative lens.
A lot of different, justrelationships stood out to me
and I think you know, obviouslyrestorative practices and just
anything pertaining to teaching.
You have to have a really goodgrasp and understanding of
relationships and the dynamicsbetween people and so the
(04:58):
relationships like whetherthat's Melissa and Barbara's
relationship kind of havingstrain throughout the episode,
or that is Janine and Gregory'srelationship with Ava, or even
Ava's relationship, you know,with the school board and the
superintendent there were somany relationships that were
like hanging in the balance.
(05:20):
But on the other side it's the,it's the well-being of these
kids, right, it's the they andit opens with the kids like they
love the music class, it's liketheir favorite class, right,
and the teachers are gettingthat break that we know that
they need, must have a prep, andso you kind of open with seeing
like wow, the, the lives ofthese kids and like even the
(05:41):
music teacher.
All this stuff is hanging inthe balance and it's really
dependent on all of these likerelationships that don't really
have anything to do with thewell-being of the kids, right.
They're kind of just kind ofpetty adult dynamic
relationships.
So that's a really stood out tome is like, wow, this is a lot
of intricate relationships andin the balance is this school,
the Abad elementary kids thatyou know want their, want their
(06:03):
music class.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, and what I love about that is a lot of times
when people are thinking aboutrestorative justice in schools,
right, they're just thinkingabout, like, student to student
dynamics or student to teacherdynamics.
But when we think about therelational dynamics that are
happening amongst the adults thenature of those relationships
being restorative, punitive,oppositional or whatever like
(06:25):
that does have a very realimpact on the students.
Here it's tied to funding, butthere are lots of other impacts
that that might have on studentson the day to day.
When we see this episode beingframed around funding, that
brings up a lot in schools.
We all know that schools inlarge parts are underfunded,
(06:46):
both from staff admin salariesand resources for supplies,
resources for extra programming,like there is a lack of that,
and so you know, the episodeframes this in a rather limited
way.
We know that school funding isa lot more complicated than
making a presentation to a boardor, you know, extorting a
church member.
(07:07):
But this is a real issue andwhat I really appreciate about
what happened in this episode islike there are multiple ways of
getting things done right.
Ava fails, even with thesupport of Gregory and Jeannie.
Ava fails to secure fundingBased on what you've shown us so
far what metrics are yourfunding targets keyed to?
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Thank God you brought that up.
I was like I hope he asks abouttargeting or whatnot, because I
have another slide.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I think we've seen all we need to see here today.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Thanks for coming in Because of the relationship the
strange relationship she haswith the superintendent right,
and while I don't agree with hermethods, barbara, with the
coaching of Melissa, is able tosecure funds through this grant
that she's been applying to foryears and years.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I have good news.
Oh really.
Regarding Regarding the factthat Abbott will be a recipient
of the Advancement Grant thisyear.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What a surprise.
After 10 years of impeccableapplications, we suddenly find
ourselves worthy.
How wonderful.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know yay episode has a happy ending.
School funding is a lot morecomplicated than that.
As we're thinking aboutspecifically like restorative
justice programs coming in,those things need to be
supported by funding both fortraining for educators,
consultants like myself,amplifierjcom.
But it's also like a time andcapacity issue, right when we're
(08:40):
thinking about when is thislearning going to happen?
Are you going to have fundingfor substitute teachers to come
in and support staff whenthey're going to do their
training?
Are you going to have fundingfor additional staff, whether
it's deans or a quote unquoterestorative justice coordinator,
to do all this Like that?
Money has to come fromsomewhere and you know we got to
(09:01):
get creative about the waysthat we do that when we think
about school funding.
In this episode, what were thethings that came up for you?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I mean, I have a little PTSD Funding was such a
.
For folks who don't alreadyknow, I started my career at a
parochial school, so not so itwas really challenging to get
funny because I was inCalifornia so there aren't a lot
of state funds for Catholicschools.
So when I was just thinkingabout, you know, the
(09:33):
presentations usually in apublic school you wouldn't do
that.
But like we would literallyhave to do presentations to get
funding to like keep our doorsopen at times, and so I was put
back in that mindset.
I was like, oh my gosh, thatwas terrible.
But I think what?
What?
The show does a good job ofdoing and it obviously
exaggerates it a little bit.
But you would be surprised howmuch funding is just about
(09:56):
schmoozing and knowing the rightpeople.
And so I think what was comingup for me was like I wonder if
people understand that this iskind of satirical, of course,
but there is a good amount ofyou know networking and you know
finagling.
Obviously I'm hoping peoplearen't extorting their you know
their church members, people intheir congregation.
(10:18):
But there is a little bit offinagling that has to happen for
school funding.
So I was thinking about thatand then just obviously within
that, the sad reality that thatis.
You know, schools are oftenfaced with music programs being
cut or just things being cut andthere's really no way for
principals or teachers to haveagency to change that and this
(10:41):
you know.
You see Janine and Gregory andEva kind of able to make their
case, but a lot of times inreality when things get cut or
things go away, that's just kindof it, you know.
So it was really interesting tosee the parallels in reality
and then the things that are alittle bit different with the
way that school funding actuallyworks, at least in my
experience.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, it's not so much that like this is something
that is based on like needs,because all of schools have
needs, right, all schools aredeserving of more funding, right
.
And so you know, to pit schoolsagainst each other and like
this presentation, like you'llget it versus you'll get it.
Like you know, sometimes we dohave to make the choices with
the limited financial resourcesthat are available.
(11:22):
But like the way that schoolsare funded, especially in the
public sector and you know, withthe rise of charter schools,
which you know will address inthe next season, you like is
really complicated and you knowthe show gives us a version of
that.
And you know, thankfully Barbis able to figure out some ways
(11:43):
to get the music program savedand all of that.
But that's not always thereality for schools.
And then people have to getcreative.
We've seen the ways that Abbottteachers do that with other
things over the years.
But you know that's where weend up in this episode.
For now, while Eva did fail atsecuring the funding for Abbott
going into the next year, right,the it wasn't for lack of
(12:06):
trying from Gregory and Jeanine.
And while we're not thinkingabout Eva so much as like school
leader because, like she's nota great school leader For a
number of reasons.
It's really interesting tothink about her as a student of
Gregory and Jeanine and you know, as you were watching this
episode, you were saying thatlike this reminded you so much
(12:28):
of the ways that you had to workwith some of the students under
your care who, like, werereally struggling.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, I think Eva, like if you, if you're
trying to glean anything, orlike learn something from this
episode or or unpack somethingfrom this episode I think the
lens of Eva as a student andJeanine and Gregory as the as
her teachers, is a is a betterway to understand kind of what I
I work with a lot of teacherson which is a few, a few
(12:58):
understandings about, like, justkids and the way people learn.
But people are in general.
So one thing that you know wewere talking about is Eva is not
great in so many ways andJeanine, gregory deal with the
direct repercussions of that.
Like they, she, she puts themthrough it, like the whole
school is going through it,because Eva is incompetent and
(13:20):
obviously this is anexaggeration, but there are
incompetent principles all overthe country, I'm sure.
So I think, understanding thatlike, yeah, eva does have a lot
of these problems, but you seeJeanine and Gregory with a
really humanizing approach tohelping her and I think that
that is really meaningful.
You see them really meet herwhere she's at, and that's
(13:43):
something that I really like totalk about with my teachers that
I'm working with.
I think you also see them.
You know, give her, give hermultiple chances, you know,
fresh starts.
That's something that is reallyimportant when you're thought,
when you're thinking abouthaving a humanistic approach and
you see them use all of thesereally important tactics and
(14:05):
moves that I think teachers needto use with their students.
But I think also, you know,without spoiling like where the
whole, where the whole seriesgoes, eva is also somebody that,
like you are, you're rootingfor her to have a redemption, or
at least I am like at thispoint she's pretty bad and
you're rooting for her to likekind of get it together, because
(14:25):
they give her these moments oflike okay, like, yeah, eva kind
of gets it.
Like in this episode she, youknow, she does kind of make her
case for Abbott In anotherepisode she has these moments
where you're like okay, like shekind of does, like she cares.
So you're rooting for her.
But you also recognize thatlike it's not going to happen
overnight, and I think Janina,gregory do a great job of
(14:46):
modeling that like when you'reworking with a challenging
student or challenging situation, it's just it's not an
overnight thing.
A lot of time you're plantingseeds, and so I think there's so
much about how Janine andGregory approach Eva.
That is actually, you know, agood, a good example of what it
can look like to have a aneffective approach with students
(15:06):
that you're struggling with.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, students, or like your colleagues, right,
this is just about you know howwe we teach humans, how humans
learn, how humans develop newskills, right, I do appreciate
how Gregory and Janine you knowthey got shut down by the
superintendent, but they weregoing to be standing like right
beside Eva, accompanying her,doing the thing that they could
to support her, not justthrowing her out on her own,
(15:30):
saying like, alright, you learnthis, alright, go and go and do
like she was unequipped to dothat.
Right, she does have strengthsand I think you know one of the
core assumptions of restorativejustice that, like you know, all
human beings have gifts andeveryone's needed for what they
bring.
Eva being charismatic in thatway, like is a great help, like
(15:50):
the speech that she does give atthe end.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
No, you're not about to rush me out of here like I'm
a little mom at the VMAs,because you know what?
No matter what happens to me,abbott will be fine because the
teachers that work there aresome of the most dedicated,
hardworking and creativeteachers in this entire city.
You tell him, eva, and it's notlike y'all been making a rain
up in here.
(16:14):
We've been taking appetizermoney and giving these kids a
charcuterie experience.
Don't give us the money becausewe need it.
Give it to us because everyoneat Abbott deserves it.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Like was really great , really well thought out and
really did like pull up theheartstrings of you know, at
least some of the members of theschool board, and that's needed
Gregory and Jeanine might haveprovided like a lot more
substance to all of that andagain, it wouldn't have mattered
because the superintendent andeven like have beef.
But you know, when we thinkabout doing things together and
(16:46):
not just putting people eitheras leaders or as solo
practitioners like, it's not alljust on one person.
Like the ways that we cancollaborate, using the strengths
of multiple people in ourcommunities, like can help us go
a lot further.
Right, and so thinking aboutthat in at the intersection of
you know, should Eva continue tobe the principal of this school
(17:09):
, like is a really hard thing tograsp.
We know we have Gregory likeopenly ask that.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Maybe the best thing for the school in the long run
is for her to fail and they geta new principal Not necessarily
me, just a new one who is likeGregory means somebody who has,
like training and educationalleadership.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, assume this role.
I would say yes, right.
I think it's something that isreally helpful to think about
when you're making changes orwhen you're trying to accomplish
goals is, when you make changeslike that, there is going to be
loss there.
There will be things you lose,right.
In this case, it might be likelosing a core member of you know
(17:53):
, the, the show cast or the, orthe school community, right, but
what is that?
A lot, what is that growth?
What is removing that person?
Allow growth for right.
I like to lean on the metaphorof you know, growing plants all
the time within, likerestorative justice work, and
(18:14):
you know we plant seeds, and inorder for seeds to grow, of
course they need food, sunlight,water, all these things.
They also need, like, space togrow, and so, like, if there are
weeds or rocks encumbering thegrowth of a community or a plant
, right, do those things need tobe removed In this case?
Right, eva, being theincompetent school leader that
(18:36):
she is, like, is probably bestserved.
Like, her talents are probablybest served like in some
marketing role somewhere.
Right, like and it's not to saylike cancel Eva as a person but
like you're not the best personwho is equipped to do this job.
Maybe Gregory is, maybe it'ssomebody else and, of course,
like for casting reasons and youknow continuity of the show and
(18:59):
you know the comedy that Evabrings like she remains a member
of the community.
But really thinking about, asyou're making, changes like what
is acceptable loss, who are thepeople that we're willing to
lose is a really importantconversation to think through as
you're trying to do things thatyou think are for the benefit
of your school community.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and I think it's really clear like again, I
don't wanna spoil anythingbecause there's a lot of changes
that happen, but I think it'sreally meaningful to recognize
that when you see people andyou're thinking about, like,
what does it mean to likereappropriate?
I like almost reappropriate,right, Like we would lose Eva in
(19:42):
one sense, maybe as principal,but then, yeah, what are her
gifts and what does she bringand how might she, you know,
maybe serve even better in adifferent role?
And really tapping intowhatever her unique genius is
and whether that's like socialmedia coordinator for the
district because it seems likethat's one of her unique talents
is like social media or justlike being a personality or
(20:04):
whatever it is.
But I think there's a lot tosay.
And, you know, putting peoplein roles where they were
flourishing.
In this episode they kind ofallude to maybe Gregory being
the person that would flourish,and I don't know if that's true
either.
You know we haven't seen whatthat could look like, so who
knows?
But I really think that there'sa lot for folks to reflect on
(20:26):
in just the ways that theserelationships are kind of
unfolding and mirror how that'sunfolding in their classroom or,
yeah, with their colleagues.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean.
I think it's also reallyimportant to think about.
You know, the harm that wouldcome with Eva continuing to be
the school leader, right, andyou know this is played for
laughs, and you know she doeshave somewhat of a redemption
arc in season two, right, butyou know, while Gregory and
Jeanine were trying to getfunding, trying to support Eva
(20:58):
in order to get more funding forthe students, right, somebody
else in that role, like, couldhave opened up one, just like
more funding opportunities.
But two, right, probably takenlike better or more care of the
school resources that werealready available.
Right, not blinging out theschool bus with you know 26 inch
(21:21):
ribs right, or you know, Idon't think that, like having
lotion across school isnecessarily a bad thing, right.
Like Eva is creative and likedoes care about the needs and
the aesthetic needs of peoplearound it.
Like I don't want to belittlethat, but there are so many
other ways that the school couldhave flourished with you know,
(21:41):
somebody else more equipped forthat role.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
If you're appreciating this video.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Like to help us in the YouTube algorithm?
Subscribe so you won't miss thevideo and share it with someone
to help us further amplify thiswork.
Now back to the show.
On the other side of thisepisode, you know, we do have
Gregory questioning whether ornot he should be gunning for the
principal role.
Gregory at it right.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's good to see you again.
You know I'm sorry I couldn'thire you as principal, but my
hands are tied To the bed,Pardon, Not that.
Look, if you're stillinterested in being principal, I
think maybe some positionsmight be opening up, even at
Abbott.
So if you're interested, emailme.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In the end, though, the email he sends ends up being
to Ava.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
I saw your little email.
I know that's why I'm sittinghere.
Well, welcome to teach a fulltime at Abbott, Mr Eddie.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Thank you.
There's a lot of differencebetween, you know, doing
administrative school leadershipwork and doing like on the
ground, classroom teacher work.
You know Gregory's commitmentto continuing to learn and grow
in this way is a choice.
What came up for you, like assomebody who's played both roles
(23:03):
.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, and I think that was honestly.
I had a lot of respect forGregory in that moment because
you know, if y'all remember notspoiling anything because you've
already unpacked the previousepisodes but if y'all remember,
you know Gregory wasn't ateacher, so he was going to be a
(23:26):
principal without being ateacher and I think that's
something about the show that'snot satirical.
I think that there are lots ofpeople that you know are go
through these programs that aremeant to like get you ready for
school leadership and they don'tnecessarily have classroom
experience.
In fact, in my own life I havea close friend that kind of
wanted a career change and hewas sort of just like I think
(23:47):
I'm just going to go be aprincipal and I was kind of like
what?
Like he never taught oranything like that, you know,
and he worked at a nonprofit andhe was like I think I want to
be a principal and I was like Ijust don't think that that's
appropriate if you've nevertaught in a classroom, like I
couldn't imagine that.
But because there's such ashortage y'all, they actually
like he was actually set up toget a job, like he could have
(24:08):
gotten a principal job neverhaving taught.
So I think that that part is notsatirical, but I had a lot of
respect for Gregory and wantingto stay in the classroom and
learn more, because I think thatthat's and whether he does it
like ultimately, like his grandplan is to stay in the classroom
to learn more or to, you know,usurp Ava from the inside.
(24:29):
I don't know what hisgrandmaster plan is, but the
impact of not jumping intoleadership, even though he was
offered that role, and likestaying in a school, I think
that landed with me as somethingthat was a really good choice
for him and showed what weshould be doing, like you should
be teaching before yourprincipal personally, is my
(24:49):
belief.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah for sure, because you know there's so many
people who are in schoolleadership who have no idea what
they're asking their teachersto do on the daily right, both
in like the lesson planning andlike overall classroom
management, but also in thenuanced ways that you have to
exhibit care to.
You know the 30 or you know Morestudents that you are dealing
(25:11):
with every single day.
Right, it's easy enough for aprincipal or a school leader to
say like hey, we're rolling outthis program.
Here's the thing, go, do it.
It's another thing to haveexperience.
That experience the impact ofDecisions coming down from on
high right and not like reallybeing consulted about how that
is going to impact people, likebeing able to Empathize through
(25:34):
having experienced that is soimportant and I think it makes
for a much more empatheticleadership for people who have
Been able to embody that role.
And that's not to say thatpeople who are principals, like
aren't capable of doing the jobWell if they weren't teachers.
But it is so much more helpfulto have that experience and yeah
(25:56):
, I think it's.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
It's just really interesting to see kind of going
back to seeing Eva, as you know, like a student role and how
Jeanine and Gregory areSupporting her, you know, and
kind of maybe helping her in herdevelopment as a principal, in
their in their teacher role.
And I think that the schoolwe've seen in past episodes and
(26:17):
we're gonna see in futureepisodes that the teachers
really do do a good job ofrallying around Eva and
supporting her when she needssupport and she does sometimes
not always, but she doessometimes show up for them.
But I think what's also clear is, at the end of the day, the
commitment to the kids issomething that you see and I
(26:38):
know we, you know I don'tbelieve in in a narrative of
supporting like a toxiccommitment to the kids, like so
committed to your school thatyou're Staying even though you
know your mental health is atstake or you don't have good
boundaries.
But I think that it is reallygreat to see the way that Abbott
displays that, at the end ofthe day, like teachers are very
much oriented towards Centeringtheir kids and getting it done
(27:00):
for their kids and in thatmoment Gregory is, you know,
doing something for himselfbecause he's learning more.
But he's also, you know, movingout of a sub role and really
saying like I'm in this, I'mcommitted to these kids in the
school and helping it be thebest place that it can be,
because he obviously sees, youknow, the magic of Abbott and
knows that he can play a role inthat.
So I think it's just a reallybeautiful moment for that
character.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, and a beautiful moment now that he has human
resources at his back.
You know, prevent like moresexual harassment from Eva.
You know Some kind ofredemption for him there as well
.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, yeah, hr workshop.
She did not go to the mandatorytraining.
I'll tell you that, likeclearly.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Most definitely.
You know, while we don't agreewith, like Barbara and Melissa's
schemes to get funding, like itwas effective, but what came
out of that is a moment that Iwanted to highlight was this
moment of Barbara looking downon Melissa's time.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I saw you two set apart is when Melissa said you
should put sugar on grits.
There's nothing to talk aboutyet because it's very
straightforward we're underattack and she's got her head
buried in the sand.
Better the sand than the mud,Okay?
You refusing to cooperatedoesn't stop bad things from
happening.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
We should be using people doing bad stuff to do
good stuff for our kids sayinglike I don't think of myself as
someone who like gets down inthe mud like you, right, and you
know we have Melissa and Jacobto some extent saying like you
know, if we don't do anythinglike, we are going to lose and
this might be the only way forus to go and get this funding.
(28:35):
And you know we have to balance.
You know how we hold our valuesand our actions on the on the
daily right.
They made a choice that youknow Maybe less than ethical,
less than moral.
It got the job done.
We're often confronted withthose choices every day, but
what it's important for me totake away from this is like not
(28:57):
to judge other people for takingactions that, like we ourselves
Wouldn't take.
There's some things like forlegal reasons or for like that
you might like draw hard linesas boundaries for yourself, but
you don't know everybody's story, you don't know everybody's
background and you know the waythat Melissa has been able to
finesse her way through life andlike her teaching career.
(29:19):
There's some things to beadmired from that and we
shouldn't like wholly dismisslike somebody's method of doing
things just because, like thatdoesn't fit with the way that we
would want to do things.
Yeah, and I love me someMelissa, like I love her,
because I mean I I, I understandit's question.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It's questionable ethically, but you know one
thing about her is she's a verygood person.
She's a very good person andshe's a very good person and
she's a very good person andshe's a very good person and
she's a very good person and Ithink her is she's gonna get it
done like she's committed to thekids and I think her and
Barbara are such realistic likeoh geez, I don't know if you've
had the experience of workingwith these people, but in every
(30:06):
school I've been in, there'sbeen like a couple of ladies
like Barbara and Melissa, thatare just kind of like they know
what's up and they really help.
You understand a lot about whatsustainability in this
profession looks like, what itmeans to stay in this profession
, because you got to remember,so many teachers like two thirds
of teachers aren't eventeaching after five years, right
, so our turnover is crazy.
So when we have people likethat that have really been in it
(30:28):
, I think it's really cool tosee how they interact with their
jobs and and how they, how,what models they can show us,
even if it's what not to do.
But yeah, I love, I love theirdynamic.
They are like my two of myfavorite characters on the show.
They're hilarious.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Right and like the way that they were able to
navigate past that right therewith their long term
relationship.
Right, there are bound to bedisagreements between people.
Right and the way that you'reable to value relationships and
not write people off and haveRestorative conversations maybe
not like with what happened,who's impacted and how and how
(31:05):
to what.
How do we adjust the needs tomake things right as possible?
But like saying makingapologies right, admitting when
you're wrong or Acknowledgingwhen you've caused somebody harm
and figuring out a way to moveforward is something that we can
see that they have definitelypracticed over years and years
of being colleagues and friends.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, yeah, they are there.
A relationship is a reallyhealthy model, I think, for
people and the way that theypush each other and the way that
they support each other andshow up for each other, like and
I think it's.
It's funny too because if, ifyou know about the actors like I
guess they're Like that inperson, to like they're like bfs
in person, which I just lovethat fact because I think their
chemistry shows that in the show.
(31:47):
But I think they're a reallygreat, like I said, a really
great model to look at and Ithink there is like.
The unfortunate reality of someof that is, though, is I know
that there is a little bit ofyou know finessing I'm not going
to call it scheming, I'm gonnacall it finessing that sometimes
you do have to do, you know,when you work in school, so
(32:09):
there's definitely a reality toit, because sometimes you got to
you know, bob, and weave alittle bit, make it work to to
get, to get what you need to getdone.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Is there anything else from theepisode that you wanted to
highlight before we ask you thequestions that everyone answers
when they come on?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I don't think so, but I just think it's a really.
It's a really interestingepisode.
I would say it's definitelyworth a rewatch with the lens of
relationships and how peopleare like working together as
colleagues and working tosupport each other.
And just looking at the again,I think Janina is probably a
great example of this in anyepisode because she does have
(32:51):
just infinite page patients.
But I think it's reallybeautiful to kind of look at and
see how, how they care for eachother, how they show up for
each other and as deeply flawedpeople, right, because even
Marvara, melissa, like you know,and even the lady on the school
board is like skimming pettycash from, like the church fund,
(33:11):
right.
So everybody is flawed in thisepisode.
Everybody is, you know.
So I think it's kind of a niceway to reflect on, you know,
interacting, because we're allflawed in different ways, to
different extents and some of usare in positions of power,
which makes our flaws moreharmful, like Ava.
But I think it's just reallyinteresting to watch it with
that lens.
(33:31):
So definitely give it a rewatch.
And, yeah, I think there's alot to glean with how we show up
with our students, with eachother.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Beautiful, beautiful.
You've heard from us.
Now we want to hear from you.
Drop your restorative justicereflections in the comments and,
if you want to join a livecommunity conversation about our
restorative justice lessonsfrom Ava Elementary, join us for
a live event on Monday, july 31.
Link with more info in thedescription.
So you've got the ear of Quintaand the writers, so you can
(34:04):
pitch yourself as a character onAva Elementary and what would
be your arc.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So coming in as a you know DEI consultant to support
the teachers would be really funmaybe not every episode, but
like every few episodes as arecurring character, somebody
that is right in betweendispositionally like Barbara and
Ava Because I think Ava's kindof on the far end of like the
crazy spectrum, so I wouldn't bequite that crazy, but still
(34:42):
probably a comedic character andjust coming in and helping the
teachers, you know, with somesort of like district wide DEI
initiative and maybe kind ofpoking fun at Jacob a little bit
for his like hyper awareness ofbeing like a white guy and in a
mostly black school and kind ofmaybe getting the side eye from
Barbara and Melissa, because Ithink a lot of teachers kind of
(35:05):
give consultants the side eye atfirst but then slowly kind of
growing to gain their respectand appreciation and working
with the teachers, because wedon't see a lot of how they
handle it.
We don't see a lot of like crazybehaviors for kids.
We don't see a lot of how theyhandle it.
We don't see a lot of DEI work.
So I would love to do that andI think it could be really
current because there's all thisstuff in the, in the national
(35:27):
discourse now about DEI andschool.
So I think it could be a kindof fun way to bring in like
what's actually happening in thenational conversation as a
recurring like districtconsultant role.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Absolutely.
I would love to see it Like Ithink about the limits of
putting the show on ABC to anational audience, but you know,
from your ear, from your mouthto Quinta, and the right is ears
.
Let's make it happen.
Thank you again so much forbeing here with us, sharing your
stories, your wisdom, yourexperiences.
How can people support you,deanna, and the ways that you
(36:02):
want to be supported?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah.
So if you're not alreadyfollowing me on Instagram,
that's definitely the place tobe.
That's where I kind of buildthis community of educators
across the country who arededicated to joyful the culture,
responsive classroom spaces.
So make sure you check me outat.
Deanna Smith it's just my nameto you and an as my T H and I'm
really excited to be publishinga book.
(36:25):
I'm not sure when this episodewill be coming out, but the book
comes out August 8.
And if you buy it during presale, you get access to a free
workshop with, like all theinformation even more
information on implementing thestrategies that I talk about in
the book.
And the book is called rootedin joy and it's all about
creating a joyful, inclusiveclassroom space of belonging so
(36:46):
a lot of the things that wetalked about here, but really
making that doable.
I'm really focused onstrategies and frameworks and
specific practices for teachers.
To me, it's like it's a selfcare issue, is a sustainability
issue.
I know our classrooms are notspaces where our students feel
supported, but then our teachersalso don't feel supported
either.
So really working to hopefullyclose that gap with this book.
(37:10):
So check that out.
It's called rooted enjoy.
It is available on Amazon andBarnes and Noble.
And yeah, like I said, if youfollow me on Instagram, there's
info for my mailing list, and wejust create a fun community of
teachers who are passionateabout this work and are also
multifaceted, so I'd love foryou to join me over there.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Beautiful, beautiful and of course all of those
things will be linked down belowwill be back very soon,
recapping, analyzing, reflectingon the season finale of season
one of Abba elementary zooballoon.
Thank you,
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