July 30, 2023 • 37 mins
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How can you use Restorative Justice when navigating career transitions, being vulnerable with students, and figuring out what it means to be a good teacher? Find out on this episode of Restorative Justice Reflections!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Heyo, david here.
Restored of Justice Reflectionswas created as a video first
medium because we're includingvideo clips from the shows we're
talking about.
You can still hear our fullconversation here with the audio
from the clip, but for the fullexperience and to see our
beautiful faces, head over toour YouTube page link below.
If you're only going podcastsor your thing, please bear with
(00:20):
the mentions of video and clipsand use your imagination.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Get ready to see my favorite animal, the Tuatara.
It's a lizard that arrived hereat the zoo the same year I
started teaching Melissa.
They have retired my busterRetired like my uncle Anthony,
or retired like my uncle Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections.
I'm David Ryan, varsega, cast,joe Harris All five names for
all the ancestors and today I'mhere with Felina Rodriguez to
dive deep into the restorativethemes or lack thereof found in
Season 1, episode 13 of ABC'shit show Abba Elementary Zoo
Balloon.
This is the finale of Season 1and, as always, our conversation
here is not to critique thestory or production choices of
(01:15):
the creators, but we'llhighlight how Restored of
Justice could apply tonavigating career transitions,
being vulnerable with studentsand figuring out what it means
to be a good teacher.
Hopefully, this will give yousome insight about how to apply
restorative ways of being intoyour life in and out of the
classroom.
If you want to take a deeperlook at applying Restored of
Justice to your life, join ourInner Circle community to
(01:35):
connect with RJ-mindedindividuals and get bonus
content.
Deepen your practice bychecking out our courses and if
you want to see this work inyour school or organization,
invite us for coaching ortraining on implementing this
work, of course, links toeverything down below.
Now let's get to it.
Felina, so good to have youTell us about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
I am entering my ending Ishould say my sixth year in
education.
I focus predominantly insecondary education, so I have
taught students sixth, seventh,eighth, ninth and now eleventh
grade.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
What do you teach?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I teach US history and I also teach a new course
that we've built on our campus,which is US History through a
Mexican American lens, but inthe higher education field it's
known as Chicano Studies orChicanx Studies.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
now, Absolutely, absolutely.
You and I have collaborated anumber of times within the
context of Amplify RJ,highlighting the importance of
Chicano Studies as we navigatelife as people in a pluralistic
society, or a society that is,in some ways, in shapes and
(02:47):
forms, attempting to be morepluralistic, but also as it
comes to the importance ofaffirming students' identities
within the classroom.
So, thank you so much for allof your work, but let's talk
about Abbott.
Right, you're a high schoolteacher.
This isn't a show set in a highschool, but, like you, can
still relate.
In what ways.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yes, and it's also because I have a lot of respect
for elementary teachers inparticular, because the K-5
system is a whole differentbeast in the things you
encounter day to day, and so Ialways have had a lot of respect
for the kinder, first andsecond grade teachers, because I
(03:29):
happen to have both the benefitand some people would call it a
curse, but I love my job ofbeing able to teach students
when they're grown, and thereare certain skills that you
don't necessarily have to teachat the secondary level.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I'm going to read the summary, loosely based off of
what Wikipedia tells us.
So in this episode, abbottElementary takes their annual
year-end school field trip tothe Philadelphia Zoo with Tariq,
taylor and Zach in tow servingas additional strap-roans, while
Mr Johnson, the Jander, is leftsupervising the students
without their permission slips.
Tariq gets an opportunity tomove to New York to record an
(04:06):
anti-drug theme rap album, andJanine is not sure if she wants
to leave Abbott to go to NewYork with him.
While they're at the zoo,Janine is pondering this and
Barb is pondering her future atthe school when she sees that
her favorite zoo animal isretired due to old age.
Gregory tells Janine that thisnext school year he'll be a
full-time teacher at Abbott, andJanine ultimately decides to
(04:28):
break up with Tariq and not moveto New York with him, as they
are all left reflecting on theirremaining choices for the rest
of the school year.
So when we think about thisepisode, there's a lot of
transitions happening, and Ithink that's what we want to
think about when we're coming tothis idea of transition and
change.
What stood out to you and howcan we put it through a
(04:51):
restorative lens?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
There are a few moments that stood out to me in
particular the transition ofcareers and the decision of
whether or not to stay withinthe field of education and
within the classroom.
And then, of course, the otherpiece being how we finally
decide when someone isconsidered a veteran teacher,
(05:15):
Because for me it's every yearwithin my teaching career and
I've been doing this for sixyears there's a moment in the
school year where I have todecide.
I start questioning my lifechoices and whether I'm going to
come back next year, and yousee teachers in different phases
of their teaching career makingthat decision for themselves.
(05:38):
So that struck a chord with mea lot.
And then, of course, whatultimately dictates what a
veteran teacher is.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And we see that a couple of ways right.
One like Gregory has made hisdecision that, like you know,
I'm going to be a teacher.
Right, and we think about, like, all of those things that have
led up to this in this seasonhim wanting to be a principal,
him substituting, him strugglingas a substitute, him making the
decision not to like go afterAva's job and decide that, hey,
(06:09):
I'm going to like develop myteaching practice and, you know,
be in proximity to Jeanine, ofcourse, right, but those are
choices that he's making basedoff of, you know, the
environment that Abbott'sprovided for him, the support
that he's gotten from teachers.
We have Jeanine who, like weknow, is like I was born to do
(06:30):
this, I need to do this, likefor the kids, can I do this in
New York?
We have Barbara who is, likeall definitely in on being a
teacher for her whole life, butas she's reflecting on, you know
, her 30 plus years, like Do Iwant to continue to do this?
How have you navigated thosemoments where you're questioning
(06:52):
whether or not you want tostick with it?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
For me.
What I think about is let's seehow I feel over a summer, after
I've had a chance to take careof myself, after I've had a
chance to just breathe, and seeif I feel like I'm going to do
this again, because what workspersonally for me is being able
to have those breaks and beingable to decide when I feel
(07:16):
centered okay, do I still feellike I want to be in education
or not?
And I'm one of the people thatdecides to go back and come back
the next year.
So that's kind of theconversation I have with myself
and I'm not going to lie.
Every year I've been teaching,I have had one day where I go
home and I just cry and you feelbetter after crying.
(07:40):
That's just something thathappens.
But it also speaks to thedifficulty of the job that we
have, and I can completelyunderstand when people feel like
it's their time to go and notcontinue education.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, and the work that you do is so appreciated.
And I think one of my favoritemoments of this episode is I
think it's the final ending tagwhere Mr Johnson has had this
kid who had to stay behind writean essay about who their super
heroes, what their superpowerwould be or who their favorite
superhero was, and they had thisbeautiful essay about why their
(08:22):
teachers are their heroes, whythey have superpowers.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Dear Mr Johnson, we know we couldn't go to the zoo
because we didn't have signpermission slips, but we think
it's bananas.
To make us right about whatsuperhero is our favorite?
Because our real heroes are ourteachers.
They don't have cool powerslike Spider-Man or invisible
cars like Wonder Woman Some ofthem can't afford cars but they
still are our heroes.
Does that answer your?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
question Sincerely yours, the Abbott Elementary.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Breakfast Club, and I think what gets lost for folks
when we're thinking aboutrestorative justice is that you
know, yes, we're thinking about,like, how do we build,
strengthen and repairrelationships rooted in equity
and trust in our classrooms andour school environments?
But, like, also, therelationship with yourself is
really important.
Right, I know you get a lot ofkind words and affirmation from
(09:10):
students, families, sometimeseven your colleagues and people
like maybe those at the coffeeshop are like goodness, like I
could never do, like you blessyou, right.
But the conversations that youhave to have with yourself,
being in right relationship withyourself, like knowing that
you're subjecting yourself tosuboptimal work conditions,
right, to do something that youcare deeply about is something
(09:33):
that we can do in a ratherrestorative, balance way or in a
very marker approach, andthat's not what I heard from you
.
But how do you prevent yourselffrom getting into that?
I'm going to give everythingthat I have for this.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, and that's something I wish someone had
told me in my first yearteaching, because the way we
prepare teachers in this currentsystem and I can only speak for
Arizona, just because I've onlytaught in my home state of
Arizona but when we prepareteachers for teaching, a lot of
it is focused on theory andpractice and pedagogy and
(10:13):
newsflash.
None of what you've studied inteacher college or teacher
preparation programs can everprepare you for being in front
of my largest class has been 34.
So 34 young people with theirown individual needs and their
own individual ways of doingthings, all who are going
through puberty.
Their brain is wired to pushlimits, to see what they can and
(10:35):
cannot do, and you have to bethe grown up to show them what
is a healthy response to apushed limit or a broken
boundary.
So it's like theory can nevermatch practice.
But for me, I have been veryintentional in realizing okay,
maybe my grading wasn't updatedevery two weeks, but I did get
(10:57):
it done within that two week,one day off window.
Or maybe I didn't gradeeverything, but that's okay,
don't grade everything.
Design your classroom so thatyou have smaller amounts to
grade, which is why I don't givehomework, because I'm not going
to grade it.
The kids don't want to do it,why bother?
(11:17):
And so those are the limitsI've set for myself.
And then of course, I set myhours.
Between 7.30 and 5 o'clock isthe latest I stay.
Maybe if there's an event I'llstay after goods, but I refuse
to take any of my papers home.
So that's the limit I have toset for myself and my work life
balance.
Because for teachers we are kindof taught or expected that we
(11:40):
shouldn't have one, and that isso dangerous and treats us like
martyrs.
Because then we're told butit's for the children, but it's
for this.
And for me, being a brown womanin education, I also remember
this education system was neverdesigned for me to survive.
So I have had to create my ownway of surviving and my own
(12:02):
system, and I do know that I'vehad a lot of time to try and
practice it.
But that's.
It's taken me six years.
I am telling you now my first,second and third years teaching.
I feel like I've made a lot ofmistakes and I can never take
back the mistakes and the harm Iinflicted on students, whether
it was intentional orunintentional.
(12:23):
But you do improve over timeand so those are kind of like
the parameters I've set formyself.
And then I do take into accountthe advice that one of my
teacher mentors told me, andit's the minute you start
resenting what you do and theminute you start feeling
negative only towards thestudents, that's when you know
you have to leave, because atthat point it's no longer about
(12:46):
helping students and doing thejob we were trained to do.
You become trapped in thiscycle where you're doing this
for the paycheck and that's nothealthy for you and it's not
healthy for the students infront of you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And it just doesn't make economic sense because
there are a lot more ways thatyou can get paid more money.
You talked a little bit aboutyour growth as a teacher.
We see Janine and I think inthe first season of ABA,
elementary.
I believe this is her secondyear teaching and you mentioned
some of those mistakes.
We've seen lots of things thatJanine has done over this first
(13:19):
season that we've talked aboutin previous episodes.
Right, but when you think abouther in this episode, what were
the things that you saw inyourself or things that made you
go oh, or like I'm proud of you?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
For me there were a few.
The first is realizing just thatthe greatest fear a lot of
teachers have is losing astudent while you're on a field
trip.
I have had nightmares about thisbecause it is such a real fear,
and so, seeing how Janine isable to handle it by talking to
(13:57):
the student, and I did like theway she built a relationship
with fearful students, becausein Arizona one of the changes we
see in our approach to pedagogyis diversity, equity and
inclusion, and I know there's anentire podcast on why that may
or may not work in educationalsystems.
But our school district inparticular is like relationships
(14:19):
, relationships, relationships,but we're never told how to
build those and it just startsby just talking to students and
meeting them when they're at.
So, like when a student isfearful, the steps she took in
speaking to the student and likemaintaining a somewhat sense of
calm, because when you're in aballoon it's not easy to
maintain a sense of calm.
(14:40):
So I did appreciate that andjust even finding the student,
because it's always been anightmare to lose a student in a
field trip, and this is whenI've taken a group of middle
schoolers to the state fair, soit is a kind of somewhat
organized chaos.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, that moment in the balloon was really important
.
I think a lot of the timesteachers and people, adults in
the world, feel like they haveto like be like brave and not
show emotions but, like Jeanine,admits her fear to the student
right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Sometimes the best things you can ever do are the
scary things, and they help yougrow, and you're going to have a
pretty cool teacher to help youevery step of the way.
So we're going to do thistogether.
You know we're going to love it, even if it scares us.
(15:35):
So now, do you love being onthis balloon?
No, I'm so very scared, but I'mgoing to try to be brave and
stand up.
Let's look over the side.
Not that brave yet.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And like, while they're not going through the
same circumstances.
You know, in the show she'stalking to the student about
like what's going on in her lifereally, but like that kind of
vulnerability is important.
I think there are limits towhat vulnerability looks like
from a teacher to a student, butshowing students that you're a
whole person who has similarfears, has had experiences that
(16:11):
are similar to what yourstudents are going through like,
can be an incredible way tocontinue to build relationships.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, and there are definitely limits to what you
can say to your students because, again, you're trying to be a
role model.
So you as me, being a 26 yearold, I can't tell them what I,
as a 26 year old, do on myweekends, but when we talk about
vulnerability with students, mystudents came into class today.
We're like four or five weeksaway from the end of the school
(16:37):
year.
We're all tired.
I think Mercury is inretrograde.
So when they came in, they'relike how are you doing, miss?
And I'm like I just want to gohome.
And they're like me too.
We agree, and I designed our dayto be a short mini lesson and
then we get work time and I didsee some of them take a nap, but
we're all exhausted and Iunderstand, so I'm not going to
(17:01):
hold it against you.
So, like those little pieces ofvulnerability, just being
honest at this job is alsotaxing, creates that
understanding With students too,because in our teacher prep
programs, a lot of the narrativeis that we have to be this
perfect person that 100%regulates their emotions, that
(17:22):
understands the rigid lines ofdiscipline, and that's just not
human and it's not going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Ooh, you said one of the buzzwords that we have to
dissect.
When you say on these airwaves,right, when you say discipline,
what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Ooh, okay, so this is where I get to go back to my
ethnic studies practices andeven within the own indigenous
knowledge systems that I am apart of.
When we talk about the idea ofdiscipline and education, it
carries a negative connotation,but we have this idea of
(17:59):
self-discipline, meaning the wayI present myself and have this
presentation of my, of who I amand my character, and it is so
shocking, when I talk tostudents about this idea of
self-discipline, that we're herenot just for me, but for my
ancestors and people who willcome after me.
This is the first time they'veever heard that discipline
doesn't have to be negative, andso that is something I always
(18:24):
think of, because when mystudents first meet me at the
during the first semester, a lotof it is on learning what we
have been taught in a colonialschool system, and then, when we
get to the second semester,that's when, like, all the fun
things happen, because we'vewe've spent 18 weeks getting to
know each other.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I also think about right, even thinking about
like colonial structures.
The word discipline has beenco-opted right Because
discipline in Latin likedisciplines, like means to teach
, right.
And so when you said like rigiddiscipline, right, like
discipline isn't bad.
Right, like what are the waysthat we're conducting ourselves,
(19:03):
right?
What are the ways that we'regoing to learn, what are the
things that we're trying toteach people, and the method
that we go about using whenwe're trying to teach folks is
very important and it doesn'thave to look like punishment.
So you know, you said the word.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I just want to make sure that like people have that
orientation when you say it,yeah, and it's interesting you
bring that up because I justrealized in Spanish disciplina
is not a negative connotation,it's more of that concept of
self-discipline, but disciplinarwhen you are doing the action
(19:37):
of creating discipline or actingdiscipline on someone else,
that one has the negativeconnotation, which I realized is
very interesting just because Igrew up in a Spanish-speaking
household.
That kind of shifted my way ofthinking of the word discipline
Sometimes.
But Spanish is a verysubjective language.
So the way my mom is the worddisciplina.
(20:01):
She's like necesitas disciplina, like you got to be set a
routine for yourself, you got tobe doing your homework at this
point in time because it's goingto help you in the future, or
you have to like go to bed at acertain time.
That's when.
That's the way she taught usabout the word disciplina.
But when I use it inconversations to interpret with
parents like today we translatedabout the student handbook we
(20:24):
use the word disciplina meaningthe consequences or discipline
practices of what you do when afight breaks out.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That framing of discipline doesn't have to be
negative either, right?
Because like that's when we'resaying that we're talking about
punishment, yeah, and that's notwhat discipline means, right?
So we have all the things thatare going on with Janine, but
the other thing that you knowyou're not necessarily like 30
years into your job.
I know a lot of people arethinking about transitioning, or
(20:55):
there are some people who are,who have more years in the game,
who can relate to what Barbarais going through.
What came up for you when youwere witnessing that?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
It's something I've noticed amongst my teacher
colleagues who've been in theprofession longer than I have,
and the reason I bring that upis because, if you think and
again, I'm a history teacher, somy math is rusty but 30 years
back would have been the early2000s, which means most teacher
training programs would havebeen in the 80s and 90s, before
(21:27):
the first iPhone, before YouTube, before Google, and back when
you use the World BookEncyclopedia, where you had to
put in a CD in the computer andthen take it out and put a
different CD in the computer tofind information.
And education has changed somuch within that span of time
and the students have changed somuch within that span of time
(21:51):
and I'm speaking as like arelatively young teacher in
comparison to my colleagues andmany of them do feel especially
with the pandemic and how we hadto turn towards technology,
Many teachers who were withinthat 20, 30 year veteran space
felt overwhelmed and felt likethey could no longer call
(22:12):
themselves veteran teachersbecause the profession had
changed so much.
So I did see that a lot, becauseit is painful to realize when
some of the things you thoughtyou were fantastic at are kind
of outdated, and I'm saying thisas a 26 year old, when my
students tell me that theNintendo NES is an ancient
artifact and so the 90s are thenew, vintage and retro, and I'm
(22:38):
learning to understand what thatmeans.
And so I do understand, fromobservation of my peers, how
Barbara must feel, because thatis a very tough position when
you think about it, and time isa very strange thing.
So that's what I've noticed, ofcourse, but it's also.
(23:01):
There is no such thing as ateacher who knows everything.
You can have 30 years ofexperience, but if you're
following carceral or colonialpractices within your classroom,
can you really say you are agood teacher?
And even like what is a goodteacher?
(23:22):
Because at this point I amwelcoming anyone to please tell
me, because all of us are stillfiguring it out, even after the
five year milestone.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
If you're appreciating this video, like to
help us in the YouTubealgorithm.
Subscribe so you won't miss thevideo, and share it with
someone to help us furtheramplify this work.
Now back to the show.
One of the things that we'veseen over the course of the show
is how Barbara has been proppedup as like the model teacher
and like the perfect example.
And you know, over the courseof the show, and definitely at
the season two, we see some ofthe ways that, like she's not
(23:52):
right, nobody is.
Jeanine puts her on thatpedestal and is so desperate for
her approval.
And when we come to the end ofthis episode, when we see
(24:26):
demonstrations of disciplineright or correction in that vein
being glorified right, whatdoes that say about what we're
expecting for teachers to be?
Quote, unquote good.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
As I navigated my first year in education, I
gravitated towards the teacherswho we saw as veterans.
The teachers that I looked up todid not have restorative
practices within theirclassrooms and actually followed
the punitive systems that manyof us are taught within a
(25:01):
teacher preparation program or ateacher education program.
So I'm never going to forget astudent.
I had my first year teachingbecause I modeled what I saw,
but I will own up to the factthat I did cause harm.
I would tell students, sit downor point to a desk, sit and
then realize and the studentresponded to me, I'm not a dog,
(25:22):
don't talk to me like a dog.
And that has stuck with meforever because I'm remembering
what I thought what teaching wasand how it harmed students.
And having to own up to thatand still seeing that being
shown in a TV show where theepitome of being a veteran
(25:44):
teacher is that you say one wordand students will do
immediately what you say isstill presents the problem of
power dynamics in education,where the teacher is presented
as the authoritarian figure andstudents are expected to listen
and obey, which is unfortunatelystill our school practice,
(26:06):
because if you look at referralforms or school handbooks,
defiance is still a referralform practice.
It's still something you cansend a student and write up a
student for a referral.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And I imagined that there are people who are
engaging with something aroundrestorative justice who are like
, yeah, felina, you tell him.
And I imagined that there'ssome people who are like, if you
don't want me to treat you likea dog, stop acting like one.
Right?
Like that's just the way thatwe are training you to be in the
world.
Right, we're expectingcompliance.
(26:39):
The people who you're going toengage with in the world are
going to expect compliance.
I think a lot of the times withschool teachers of color, right,
when I think about this kind ofmodel being handed down by
teachers of color, blackteachers, indigenous teachers
right, sometimes it's rooted inhey, we just want to prepare you
for the way that the world isgoing to treat you, and I think
(27:02):
that is well-intentioned.
But we can also build a worldwhere students aren't treated
like that.
Why do we, the people who aresupposed to care for them,
understand them, have sharedexperience with them, have to
treat them the same way?
Right?
All of this is rooted inbehavior control, in enslavement
, right, in colonialismcontrolling the Negroes, right,
(27:23):
controlling the savages, right,it's white supremacy 101.
And while I'm not saying thatJeanine or Miss Howard in this
situation, were the extreme ofthat right.
That is the thing that isreplicated so often in schools,
and to see that glorified inthat moment as like, yeah,
(27:43):
jeanine's a good teacher.
Now I don't know what to dowith that.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's hard because what I have noticed with in my
own classroom and there's memesabout it on board teachers,
which is a page that has funnyvideos and skits that I laugh
about, but you still see kind ofthose patterns emerging there
too, where there and I thinkspecifically about a meme or
(28:11):
it's veteran first year teachers, like one, two, three eyes on
me or like all the differentattention getters that you can
think of, and then veteranteacher is just glares, and I've
noticed with my own practice.
I more say now I'm not going totalk over you, because the
students, because we builtenough of a mutual understanding
(28:34):
and I've I want to say I'vetried to make my classroom more
engaging and fun, becausethere's this misconception that
history can't be fun and it mustbe history.
But if I'm going to teach theRed Scare and I can't
incorporate among us and kind ofmake it a fun game, then what
am I in the classroom for?
And so, like using thoseactivities, and the students by
(28:55):
now know that I'm trying to seewhat they like and what they
don't like.
They have understood.
Oh, I as a person want to beheard and so I'm not going to
talk over another person.
So like it takes time, it isnot easy, but I have noticed
that there are ways to engageyour students and have your
students listen to you, based onan understanding of mutual
(29:17):
respect that does not have to beauthoritarian.
And also, I teach secondarystudents and I know most teacher
education programs tell you notto be sarcastic with students.
But this is kind of like ourlove language and humor language
, where we use witty banter totalk to each other and it's not
done in a way that to harm ormake fun of a student, but it's
(29:40):
like a kind of humor that theylaugh about but also kind of get
the point like, hey, okay, weneed to do what we came here to
do.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You know I've talked to a lot of teachers over the
course of my time doingrestorative justice work within
the context of schools andsometimes teachers are like but
I've been doing this for so long, this is what the students are
used to, and the beautiful thingabout restorative justice is
that, like hey, it's not justthat, like we're repairing, like
moments of harm, we can go backand build and strengthen
(30:12):
relationships, change patternsthat we've built up.
Like it's not too late to adapt.
Right, even if you're, you know, a couple of weeks away from
the end of the school year, youcan talk about hey, you know,
the way that we've beenoperating isn't necessarily the
way that I want to be inrelationship with you all.
What would it look like for therest of this year to operate
(30:34):
out of more mutual respect?
What is it that you need inthis classroom?
This is what I need in thisclassroom.
Right, you're not a passiveparticipant in your classroom.
Right, you're a fullparticipant, you get to
articulate your needs to yourstudents.
But you know, when you do thiscollaboratively and then you
have conversations about allright, this is the way that we
(30:55):
want to be.
What are we going to do whenwe're not this way, because
that's inevitably going tohappen.
Right the way that they want tobe corrected is something that
you can engage in.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I also know that for someone who has done something a
certain way for a really longtime, it's kind of hard to
embrace something new becauseyou don't know how it will go.
For me, the way I have kind ofgotten over that is you never
know until you try.
So I tell the students we'regoing to try something new, see
(31:25):
how it goes and, depending onhow the activity or the lesson
goes the next day or after that,I'll tell them okay, that did
not go as planned, so let's tryXYZ or let's try something new.
Even with humor as well, I amfinding out right now my pop
culture references that I'vebeen using for the past five
(31:48):
years are becoming outdated.
Because when I thought I wasbeing funny when I asked my
students if you can find Genoviaon this map of World War One, I
will give you extra credit.
Think me personally thinkingthat everybody had seen the
Princess Diaries and understoodGenovia was the fictional
country.
And then I came to therealization that my students had
(32:11):
not been born yet when themovie came out and it was
something they had seen whenthey were little or their older
sibling had seen.
So like realizing something Ihadn't.
That I've been doing for awhile has changed.
That teaches me.
Okay, maybe I need to learnwhat is on, what is trending or
what's relevant.
(32:31):
Today's youth, what do theyvalue?
And I have the benefit ofhaving a younger sister who is
of the same generation as mystudents.
So I've started recentlystarted watching one piece and
that's the way I've kind ofadapted to changes in education.
But when you've had somethingfor the same few years, I'm at
this struggle where, if you'renot willing to change or adapt I
(32:56):
guess the word change is notthe right one I'm using it's
it's the word adapt when you'renot willing to adapt in an
education system that willconstantly change.
What are we in here for?
Because new generations aregoing to learn differently.
Now, in today's day and age,history is not so much about
facts and figures, because wehave Google, so the end chat,
(33:21):
gbt, so the way I have to teachsomething has to look very
different than what it did whenI was going through school, and
that's just normal.
But I know there is a strugglewith change and there is a
struggle with trying somethingnew and there's a struggle with
being vulnerable and havingfunny moments with your students
that I know not everyone isready for.
(33:43):
But that raises the question Ifyou're not ready for it, then
do you feel like you shouldcontinue in education, because
the change is going to come andthe students are going to push
you into that change, whetherwe're ready for it or not.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You've heard from us.
Now we want to hear from you.
Drop your restorative justicereflections in the comments and
if you want to join a livecommunity conversation about our
restorative justice lessonsfrom Abba Elementary, join us
for a live event on Monday, july31.
Link with more info in thedescription.
And you know, over the courseof this show going into season
two, we're going to see a lot ofchange, a lot of growth from
(34:20):
all the characters involved.
Teaching is an ever evolvingprofession, right, and as we
come to a close with season oneof Abba Elementary like, we're
going to see a lot of differentgrowth points for all of the
characters on Abba Elementary.
But I'm curious if you were tobe cast in your dream role on
Abba Elementary, what would yourrole be?
(34:42):
Who would you play?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
If I were to be cast and added to Abbott Elementary.
There is this position that wehave in a high school where you
sometimes take your high schoolstudents and they do mentorship
programs with elementary schoolstudents, and I have taken my
students on a trip through aprogram we ran like this.
So I would love to be like thehigh school teacher that shows
(35:07):
up and builds a partnership withthe students in that way, just
because it's an easy way to seea dynamic between elementary
school teachers and thedifferent vibe of what secondary
school teachers are and likesee that interaction.
Because the differences in ourprofessions is also reflected in
(35:28):
the differences of ourpersonalities at times, because
as a secondary educator I have avery different approach to what
my students do than what a K5elementary teacher.
This and this is not ageneralization, it's just
because we have to be aboutaround different age ranges, so
some of our personality kind ofmolds into those and it just be
(35:49):
really fun for this random highschool teacher to just show up
to happy hour with Miss Chimentiand Barbara.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Your lips to Quinta in the writer's ears as we're
drawing to a close.
Is there anything else that youwant to shout out or draw
attention to while you've gotthe mic?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I just want to give a shout out to the Instagram that
I run, which is at teachingwith Corazon, if you have any
questions related to my work ineducation.
But I also want to highlightthe ongoing fact that Arizona,
in particular, is facing attacksin its education system and, as
(36:28):
of right now, oursuperintendent of public
instruction created a hotlinechallenging that whether or not
we should teach social,emotional learning in the
classrooms, challenging whetheror not we should teach about
race, ethnicity and genderidentity in the classroom, to
the point where he's created aclimate where teachers can be
reported for teaching suchthings.
And if you would like to becomeinvolved in supporting Arizona
(36:52):
school teachers whether it's,you know, supporting our donors
choose when they become public,or wanting to be connected to
our community organizations thatare continuing the battles with
our state legislator and ourstate superintendent, feel free
to send me a message at teachingwith Corazon on Instagram, and
I am just really happy to be apart of this ongoing community
(37:16):
and restorative justice.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you so much for all your wisdom, stories,
experiences to share with us aswe reflected on the season one
finale of Abba Elementary.
Heyo, david here.
Restored of Justice Reflectionswas created as a video first
medium because we're includingvideo clips from the shows we're
talking about.
You can still hear our fullconversation here with the audio
from the clip, but for the fullexperience and to see our
beautiful faces, head over toour YouTube page link below.
If you're only going podcastsor your thing, please bear with
(00:20):
the mentions of video and clipsand use your imagination.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Get ready to see my favorite animal, the Tuatara.
It's a lizard that arrived hereat the zoo the same year I
started teaching Melissa.
They have retired my busterRetired like my uncle Anthony,
or retired like my uncle Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Welcome back to Restored of Justice Reflections.
I'm David Ryan, varsega, cast,joe Harris All five names for
all the ancestors and today I'mhere with Felina Rodriguez to
dive deep into the restorativethemes or lack thereof found in
Season 1, episode 13 of ABC'shit show Abba Elementary Zoo
Balloon.
This is the finale of Season 1and, as always, our conversation
here is not to critique thestory or production choices of
(01:15):
the creators, but we'llhighlight how Restored of
Justice could apply tonavigating career transitions,
being vulnerable with studentsand figuring out what it means
to be a good teacher.
Hopefully, this will give yousome insight about how to apply
restorative ways of being intoyour life in and out of the
classroom.
If you want to take a deeperlook at applying Restored of
Justice to your life, join ourInner Circle community to
(01:35):
connect with RJ-mindedindividuals and get bonus
content.
Deepen your practice bychecking out our courses and if
you want to see this work inyour school or organization,
invite us for coaching ortraining on implementing this
work, of course, links toeverything down below.
Now let's get to it.
Felina, so good to have youTell us about yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
I am entering my ending Ishould say my sixth year in
education.
I focus predominantly insecondary education, so I have
taught students sixth, seventh,eighth, ninth and now eleventh
grade.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
What do you teach?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I teach US history and I also teach a new course
that we've built on our campus,which is US History through a
Mexican American lens, but inthe higher education field it's
known as Chicano Studies orChicanx Studies.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
now, Absolutely, absolutely.
You and I have collaborated anumber of times within the
context of Amplify RJ,highlighting the importance of
Chicano Studies as we navigatelife as people in a pluralistic
society, or a society that is,in some ways, in shapes and
(02:47):
forms, attempting to be morepluralistic, but also as it
comes to the importance ofaffirming students' identities
within the classroom.
So, thank you so much for allof your work, but let's talk
about Abbott.
Right, you're a high schoolteacher.
This isn't a show set in a highschool, but, like you, can
still relate.
In what ways.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yes, and it's also because I have a lot of respect
for elementary teachers inparticular, because the K-5
system is a whole differentbeast in the things you
encounter day to day, and so Ialways have had a lot of respect
for the kinder, first andsecond grade teachers, because I
(03:29):
happen to have both the benefitand some people would call it a
curse, but I love my job ofbeing able to teach students
when they're grown, and thereare certain skills that you
don't necessarily have to teachat the secondary level.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I'm going to read the summary, loosely based off of
what Wikipedia tells us.
So in this episode, abbottElementary takes their annual
year-end school field trip tothe Philadelphia Zoo with Tariq,
taylor and Zach in tow servingas additional strap-roans, while
Mr Johnson, the Jander, is leftsupervising the students
without their permission slips.
Tariq gets an opportunity tomove to New York to record an
(04:06):
anti-drug theme rap album, andJanine is not sure if she wants
to leave Abbott to go to NewYork with him.
While they're at the zoo,Janine is pondering this and
Barb is pondering her future atthe school when she sees that
her favorite zoo animal isretired due to old age.
Gregory tells Janine that thisnext school year he'll be a
full-time teacher at Abbott, andJanine ultimately decides to
(04:28):
break up with Tariq and not moveto New York with him, as they
are all left reflecting on theirremaining choices for the rest
of the school year.
So when we think about thisepisode, there's a lot of
transitions happening, and Ithink that's what we want to
think about when we're coming tothis idea of transition and
change.
What stood out to you and howcan we put it through a
(04:51):
restorative lens?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
There are a few moments that stood out to me in
particular the transition ofcareers and the decision of
whether or not to stay withinthe field of education and
within the classroom.
And then, of course, the otherpiece being how we finally
decide when someone isconsidered a veteran teacher,
(05:15):
Because for me it's every yearwithin my teaching career and
I've been doing this for sixyears there's a moment in the
school year where I have todecide.
I start questioning my lifechoices and whether I'm going to
come back next year, and yousee teachers in different phases
of their teaching career makingthat decision for themselves.
(05:38):
So that struck a chord with mea lot.
And then, of course, whatultimately dictates what a
veteran teacher is.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And we see that a couple of ways right.
One like Gregory has made hisdecision that, like you know,
I'm going to be a teacher.
Right, and we think about, like, all of those things that have
led up to this in this seasonhim wanting to be a principal,
him substituting, him strugglingas a substitute, him making the
decision not to like go afterAva's job and decide that, hey,
(06:09):
I'm going to like develop myteaching practice and, you know,
be in proximity to Jeanine, ofcourse, right, but those are
choices that he's making basedoff of, you know, the
environment that Abbott'sprovided for him, the support
that he's gotten from teachers.
We have Jeanine who, like weknow, is like I was born to do
(06:30):
this, I need to do this, likefor the kids, can I do this in
New York?
We have Barbara who is, likeall definitely in on being a
teacher for her whole life, butas she's reflecting on, you know
, her 30 plus years, like Do Iwant to continue to do this?
How have you navigated thosemoments where you're questioning
(06:52):
whether or not you want tostick with it?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
For me.
What I think about is let's seehow I feel over a summer, after
I've had a chance to take careof myself, after I've had a
chance to just breathe, and seeif I feel like I'm going to do
this again, because what workspersonally for me is being able
to have those breaks and beingable to decide when I feel
(07:16):
centered okay, do I still feellike I want to be in education
or not?
And I'm one of the people thatdecides to go back and come back
the next year.
So that's kind of theconversation I have with myself
and I'm not going to lie.
Every year I've been teaching,I have had one day where I go
home and I just cry and you feelbetter after crying.
(07:40):
That's just something thathappens.
But it also speaks to thedifficulty of the job that we
have, and I can completelyunderstand when people feel like
it's their time to go and notcontinue education.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, and the work that you do is so appreciated.
And I think one of my favoritemoments of this episode is I
think it's the final ending tagwhere Mr Johnson has had this
kid who had to stay behind writean essay about who their super
heroes, what their superpowerwould be or who their favorite
superhero was, and they had thisbeautiful essay about why their
(08:22):
teachers are their heroes, whythey have superpowers.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Dear Mr Johnson, we know we couldn't go to the zoo
because we didn't have signpermission slips, but we think
it's bananas.
To make us right about whatsuperhero is our favorite?
Because our real heroes are ourteachers.
They don't have cool powerslike Spider-Man or invisible
cars like Wonder Woman Some ofthem can't afford cars but they
still are our heroes.
Does that answer your?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
question Sincerely yours, the Abbott Elementary.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Breakfast Club, and I think what gets lost for folks
when we're thinking aboutrestorative justice is that you
know, yes, we're thinking about,like, how do we build,
strengthen and repairrelationships rooted in equity
and trust in our classrooms andour school environments?
But, like, also, therelationship with yourself is
really important.
Right, I know you get a lot ofkind words and affirmation from
(09:10):
students, families, sometimeseven your colleagues and people
like maybe those at the coffeeshop are like goodness, like I
could never do, like you blessyou, right.
But the conversations that youhave to have with yourself,
being in right relationship withyourself, like knowing that
you're subjecting yourself tosuboptimal work conditions,
right, to do something that youcare deeply about is something
(09:33):
that we can do in a ratherrestorative, balance way or in a
very marker approach, andthat's not what I heard from you
.
But how do you prevent yourselffrom getting into that?
I'm going to give everythingthat I have for this.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, and that's something I wish someone had
told me in my first yearteaching, because the way we
prepare teachers in this currentsystem and I can only speak for
Arizona, just because I've onlytaught in my home state of
Arizona but when we prepareteachers for teaching, a lot of
it is focused on theory andpractice and pedagogy and
(10:13):
newsflash.
None of what you've studied inteacher college or teacher
preparation programs can everprepare you for being in front
of my largest class has been 34.
So 34 young people with theirown individual needs and their
own individual ways of doingthings, all who are going
through puberty.
Their brain is wired to pushlimits, to see what they can and
(10:35):
cannot do, and you have to bethe grown up to show them what
is a healthy response to apushed limit or a broken
boundary.
So it's like theory can nevermatch practice.
But for me, I have been veryintentional in realizing okay,
maybe my grading wasn't updatedevery two weeks, but I did get
(10:57):
it done within that two week,one day off window.
Or maybe I didn't gradeeverything, but that's okay,
don't grade everything.
Design your classroom so thatyou have smaller amounts to
grade, which is why I don't givehomework, because I'm not going
to grade it.
The kids don't want to do it,why bother?
(11:17):
And so those are the limitsI've set for myself.
And then of course, I set myhours.
Between 7.30 and 5 o'clock isthe latest I stay.
Maybe if there's an event I'llstay after goods, but I refuse
to take any of my papers home.
So that's the limit I have toset for myself and my work life
balance.
Because for teachers we are kindof taught or expected that we
(11:40):
shouldn't have one, and that isso dangerous and treats us like
martyrs.
Because then we're told butit's for the children, but it's
for this.
And for me, being a brown womanin education, I also remember
this education system was neverdesigned for me to survive.
So I have had to create my ownway of surviving and my own
(12:02):
system, and I do know that I'vehad a lot of time to try and
practice it.
But that's.
It's taken me six years.
I am telling you now my first,second and third years teaching.
I feel like I've made a lot ofmistakes and I can never take
back the mistakes and the harm Iinflicted on students, whether
it was intentional orunintentional.
(12:23):
But you do improve over timeand so those are kind of like
the parameters I've set formyself.
And then I do take into accountthe advice that one of my
teacher mentors told me, andit's the minute you start
resenting what you do and theminute you start feeling
negative only towards thestudents, that's when you know
you have to leave, because atthat point it's no longer about
(12:46):
helping students and doing thejob we were trained to do.
You become trapped in thiscycle where you're doing this
for the paycheck and that's nothealthy for you and it's not
healthy for the students infront of you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And it just doesn't make economic sense because
there are a lot more ways thatyou can get paid more money.
You talked a little bit aboutyour growth as a teacher.
We see Janine and I think inthe first season of ABA,
elementary.
I believe this is her secondyear teaching and you mentioned
some of those mistakes.
We've seen lots of things thatJanine has done over this first
(13:19):
season that we've talked aboutin previous episodes.
Right, but when you think abouther in this episode, what were
the things that you saw inyourself or things that made you
go oh, or like I'm proud of you?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
For me there were a few.
The first is realizing just thatthe greatest fear a lot of
teachers have is losing astudent while you're on a field
trip.
I have had nightmares about thisbecause it is such a real fear,
and so, seeing how Janine isable to handle it by talking to
(13:57):
the student, and I did like theway she built a relationship
with fearful students, becausein Arizona one of the changes we
see in our approach to pedagogyis diversity, equity and
inclusion, and I know there's anentire podcast on why that may
or may not work in educationalsystems.
But our school district inparticular is like relationships
(14:19):
, relationships, relationships,but we're never told how to
build those and it just startsby just talking to students and
meeting them when they're at.
So, like when a student isfearful, the steps she took in
speaking to the student and likemaintaining a somewhat sense of
calm, because when you're in aballoon it's not easy to
maintain a sense of calm.
(14:40):
So I did appreciate that andjust even finding the student,
because it's always been anightmare to lose a student in a
field trip, and this is whenI've taken a group of middle
schoolers to the state fair, soit is a kind of somewhat
organized chaos.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, that moment in the balloon was really important
.
I think a lot of the timesteachers and people, adults in
the world, feel like they haveto like be like brave and not
show emotions but, like Jeanine,admits her fear to the student
right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Sometimes the best things you can ever do are the
scary things, and they help yougrow, and you're going to have a
pretty cool teacher to help youevery step of the way.
So we're going to do thistogether.
You know we're going to love it, even if it scares us.
(15:35):
So now, do you love being onthis balloon?
No, I'm so very scared, but I'mgoing to try to be brave and
stand up.
Let's look over the side.
Not that brave yet.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And like, while they're not going through the
same circumstances.
You know, in the show she'stalking to the student about
like what's going on in her lifereally, but like that kind of
vulnerability is important.
I think there are limits towhat vulnerability looks like
from a teacher to a student, butshowing students that you're a
whole person who has similarfears, has had experiences that
(16:11):
are similar to what yourstudents are going through like,
can be an incredible way tocontinue to build relationships.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, and there are definitely limits to what you
can say to your students because, again, you're trying to be a
role model.
So you as me, being a 26 yearold, I can't tell them what I,
as a 26 year old, do on myweekends, but when we talk about
vulnerability with students, mystudents came into class today.
We're like four or five weeksaway from the end of the school
(16:37):
year.
We're all tired.
I think Mercury is inretrograde.
So when they came in, they'relike how are you doing, miss?
And I'm like I just want to gohome.
And they're like me too.
We agree, and I designed our dayto be a short mini lesson and
then we get work time and I didsee some of them take a nap, but
we're all exhausted and Iunderstand, so I'm not going to
(17:01):
hold it against you.
So, like those little pieces ofvulnerability, just being
honest at this job is alsotaxing, creates that
understanding With students too,because in our teacher prep
programs, a lot of the narrativeis that we have to be this
perfect person that 100%regulates their emotions, that
(17:22):
understands the rigid lines ofdiscipline, and that's just not
human and it's not going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Ooh, you said one of the buzzwords that we have to
dissect.
When you say on these airwaves,right, when you say discipline,
what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Ooh, okay, so this is where I get to go back to my
ethnic studies practices andeven within the own indigenous
knowledge systems that I am apart of.
When we talk about the idea ofdiscipline and education, it
carries a negative connotation,but we have this idea of
(17:59):
self-discipline, meaning the wayI present myself and have this
presentation of my, of who I amand my character, and it is so
shocking, when I talk tostudents about this idea of
self-discipline, that we're herenot just for me, but for my
ancestors and people who willcome after me.
This is the first time they'veever heard that discipline
doesn't have to be negative, andso that is something I always
(18:24):
think of, because when mystudents first meet me at the
during the first semester, a lotof it is on learning what we
have been taught in a colonialschool system, and then, when we
get to the second semester,that's when, like, all the fun
things happen, because we'vewe've spent 18 weeks getting to
know each other.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I also think about right, even thinking about
like colonial structures.
The word discipline has beenco-opted right Because
discipline in Latin likedisciplines, like means to teach
, right.
And so when you said like rigiddiscipline, right, like
discipline isn't bad.
Right, like what are the waysthat we're conducting ourselves,
(19:03):
right?
What are the ways that we'regoing to learn, what are the
things that we're trying toteach people, and the method
that we go about using whenwe're trying to teach folks is
very important and it doesn'thave to look like punishment.
So you know, you said the word.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I just want to make sure that like people have that
orientation when you say it,yeah, and it's interesting you
bring that up because I justrealized in Spanish disciplina
is not a negative connotation,it's more of that concept of
self-discipline, but disciplinarwhen you are doing the action
(19:37):
of creating discipline or actingdiscipline on someone else,
that one has the negativeconnotation, which I realized is
very interesting just because Igrew up in a Spanish-speaking
household.
That kind of shifted my way ofthinking of the word discipline
Sometimes.
But Spanish is a verysubjective language.
So the way my mom is the worddisciplina.
(20:01):
She's like necesitas disciplina, like you got to be set a
routine for yourself, you got tobe doing your homework at this
point in time because it's goingto help you in the future, or
you have to like go to bed at acertain time.
That's when.
That's the way she taught usabout the word disciplina.
But when I use it inconversations to interpret with
parents like today we translatedabout the student handbook we
(20:24):
use the word disciplina meaningthe consequences or discipline
practices of what you do when afight breaks out.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That framing of discipline doesn't have to be
negative either, right?
Because like that's when we'resaying that we're talking about
punishment, yeah, and that's notwhat discipline means, right?
So we have all the things thatare going on with Janine, but
the other thing that you knowyou're not necessarily like 30
years into your job.
I know a lot of people arethinking about transitioning, or
(20:55):
there are some people who are,who have more years in the game,
who can relate to what Barbarais going through.
What came up for you when youwere witnessing that?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
It's something I've noticed amongst my teacher
colleagues who've been in theprofession longer than I have,
and the reason I bring that upis because, if you think and
again, I'm a history teacher, somy math is rusty but 30 years
back would have been the early2000s, which means most teacher
training programs would havebeen in the 80s and 90s, before
(21:27):
the first iPhone, before YouTube, before Google, and back when
you use the World BookEncyclopedia, where you had to
put in a CD in the computer andthen take it out and put a
different CD in the computer tofind information.
And education has changed somuch within that span of time
and the students have changed somuch within that span of time
(21:51):
and I'm speaking as like arelatively young teacher in
comparison to my colleagues andmany of them do feel especially
with the pandemic and how we hadto turn towards technology,
Many teachers who were withinthat 20, 30 year veteran space
felt overwhelmed and felt likethey could no longer call
(22:12):
themselves veteran teachersbecause the profession had
changed so much.
So I did see that a lot, becauseit is painful to realize when
some of the things you thoughtyou were fantastic at are kind
of outdated, and I'm saying thisas a 26 year old, when my
students tell me that theNintendo NES is an ancient
artifact and so the 90s are thenew, vintage and retro, and I'm
(22:38):
learning to understand what thatmeans.
And so I do understand, fromobservation of my peers, how
Barbara must feel, because thatis a very tough position when
you think about it, and time isa very strange thing.
So that's what I've noticed, ofcourse, but it's also.
(23:01):
There is no such thing as ateacher who knows everything.
You can have 30 years ofexperience, but if you're
following carceral or colonialpractices within your classroom,
can you really say you are agood teacher?
And even like what is a goodteacher?
(23:22):
Because at this point I amwelcoming anyone to please tell
me, because all of us are stillfiguring it out, even after the
five year milestone.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
If you're appreciating this video, like to
help us in the YouTubealgorithm.
Subscribe so you won't miss thevideo, and share it with
someone to help us furtheramplify this work.
Now back to the show.
One of the things that we'veseen over the course of the show
is how Barbara has been proppedup as like the model teacher
and like the perfect example.
And you know, over the courseof the show, and definitely at
the season two, we see some ofthe ways that, like she's not
(23:52):
right, nobody is.
Jeanine puts her on thatpedestal and is so desperate for
her approval.
And when we come to the end ofthis episode, when we see
(24:26):
demonstrations of disciplineright or correction in that vein
being glorified right, whatdoes that say about what we're
expecting for teachers to be?
Quote, unquote good.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
As I navigated my first year in education, I
gravitated towards the teacherswho we saw as veterans.
The teachers that I looked up todid not have restorative
practices within theirclassrooms and actually followed
the punitive systems that manyof us are taught within a
(25:01):
teacher preparation program or ateacher education program.
So I'm never going to forget astudent.
I had my first year teachingbecause I modeled what I saw,
but I will own up to the factthat I did cause harm.
I would tell students, sit downor point to a desk, sit and
then realize and the studentresponded to me, I'm not a dog,
(25:22):
don't talk to me like a dog.
And that has stuck with meforever because I'm remembering
what I thought what teaching wasand how it harmed students.
And having to own up to thatand still seeing that being
shown in a TV show where theepitome of being a veteran
(25:44):
teacher is that you say one wordand students will do
immediately what you say isstill presents the problem of
power dynamics in education,where the teacher is presented
as the authoritarian figure andstudents are expected to listen
and obey, which is unfortunatelystill our school practice,
(26:06):
because if you look at referralforms or school handbooks,
defiance is still a referralform practice.
It's still something you cansend a student and write up a
student for a referral.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
And I imagined that there are people who are
engaging with something aroundrestorative justice who are like
, yeah, felina, you tell him.
And I imagined that there'ssome people who are like, if you
don't want me to treat you likea dog, stop acting like one.
Right?
Like that's just the way thatwe are training you to be in the
world.
Right, we're expectingcompliance.
(26:39):
The people who you're going toengage with in the world are
going to expect compliance.
I think a lot of the times withschool teachers of color, right,
when I think about this kind ofmodel being handed down by
teachers of color, blackteachers, indigenous teachers
right, sometimes it's rooted inhey, we just want to prepare you
for the way that the world isgoing to treat you, and I think
(27:02):
that is well-intentioned.
But we can also build a worldwhere students aren't treated
like that.
Why do we, the people who aresupposed to care for them,
understand them, have sharedexperience with them, have to
treat them the same way?
Right?
All of this is rooted inbehavior control, in enslavement
, right, in colonialismcontrolling the Negroes, right,
(27:23):
controlling the savages, right,it's white supremacy 101.
And while I'm not saying thatJeanine or Miss Howard in this
situation, were the extreme ofthat right.
That is the thing that isreplicated so often in schools,
and to see that glorified inthat moment as like, yeah,
(27:43):
jeanine's a good teacher.
Now I don't know what to dowith that.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's hard because what I have noticed with in my
own classroom and there's memesabout it on board teachers,
which is a page that has funnyvideos and skits that I laugh
about, but you still see kind ofthose patterns emerging there
too, where there and I thinkspecifically about a meme or
(28:11):
it's veteran first year teachers, like one, two, three eyes on
me or like all the differentattention getters that you can
think of, and then veteranteacher is just glares, and I've
noticed with my own practice.
I more say now I'm not going totalk over you, because the
students, because we builtenough of a mutual understanding
(28:34):
and I've I want to say I'vetried to make my classroom more
engaging and fun, becausethere's this misconception that
history can't be fun and it mustbe history.
But if I'm going to teach theRed Scare and I can't
incorporate among us and kind ofmake it a fun game, then what
am I in the classroom for?
And so, like using thoseactivities, and the students by
(28:55):
now know that I'm trying to seewhat they like and what they
don't like.
They have understood.
Oh, I as a person want to beheard and so I'm not going to
talk over another person.
So like it takes time, it isnot easy, but I have noticed
that there are ways to engageyour students and have your
students listen to you, based onan understanding of mutual
(29:17):
respect that does not have to beauthoritarian.
And also, I teach secondarystudents and I know most teacher
education programs tell you notto be sarcastic with students.
But this is kind of like ourlove language and humor language
, where we use witty banter totalk to each other and it's not
done in a way that to harm ormake fun of a student, but it's
(29:40):
like a kind of humor that theylaugh about but also kind of get
the point like, hey, okay, weneed to do what we came here to
do.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You know I've talked to a lot of teachers over the
course of my time doingrestorative justice work within
the context of schools andsometimes teachers are like but
I've been doing this for so long, this is what the students are
used to, and the beautiful thingabout restorative justice is
that, like hey, it's not justthat, like we're repairing, like
moments of harm, we can go backand build and strengthen
(30:12):
relationships, change patternsthat we've built up.
Like it's not too late to adapt.
Right, even if you're, you know, a couple of weeks away from
the end of the school year, youcan talk about hey, you know,
the way that we've beenoperating isn't necessarily the
way that I want to be inrelationship with you all.
What would it look like for therest of this year to operate
(30:34):
out of more mutual respect?
What is it that you need inthis classroom?
This is what I need in thisclassroom.
Right, you're not a passiveparticipant in your classroom.
Right, you're a fullparticipant, you get to
articulate your needs to yourstudents.
But you know, when you do thiscollaboratively and then you
have conversations about allright, this is the way that we
(30:55):
want to be.
What are we going to do whenwe're not this way, because
that's inevitably going tohappen.
Right the way that they want tobe corrected is something that
you can engage in.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
I also know that for someone who has done something a
certain way for a really longtime, it's kind of hard to
embrace something new becauseyou don't know how it will go.
For me, the way I have kind ofgotten over that is you never
know until you try.
So I tell the students we'regoing to try something new, see
(31:25):
how it goes and, depending onhow the activity or the lesson
goes the next day or after that,I'll tell them okay, that did
not go as planned, so let's tryXYZ or let's try something new.
Even with humor as well, I amfinding out right now my pop
culture references that I'vebeen using for the past five
(31:48):
years are becoming outdated.
Because when I thought I wasbeing funny when I asked my
students if you can find Genoviaon this map of World War One, I
will give you extra credit.
Think me personally thinkingthat everybody had seen the
Princess Diaries and understoodGenovia was the fictional
country.
And then I came to therealization that my students had
(32:11):
not been born yet when themovie came out and it was
something they had seen whenthey were little or their older
sibling had seen.
So like realizing something Ihadn't.
That I've been doing for awhile has changed.
That teaches me.
Okay, maybe I need to learnwhat is on, what is trending or
what's relevant.
(32:31):
Today's youth, what do theyvalue?
And I have the benefit ofhaving a younger sister who is
of the same generation as mystudents.
So I've started recentlystarted watching one piece and
that's the way I've kind ofadapted to changes in education.
But when you've had somethingfor the same few years, I'm at
this struggle where, if you'renot willing to change or adapt I
(32:56):
guess the word change is notthe right one I'm using it's
it's the word adapt when you'renot willing to adapt in an
education system that willconstantly change.
What are we in here for?
Because new generations aregoing to learn differently.
Now, in today's day and age,history is not so much about
facts and figures, because wehave Google, so the end chat,
(33:21):
gbt, so the way I have to teachsomething has to look very
different than what it did whenI was going through school, and
that's just normal.
But I know there is a strugglewith change and there is a
struggle with trying somethingnew and there's a struggle with
being vulnerable and havingfunny moments with your students
that I know not everyone isready for.
(33:43):
But that raises the question Ifyou're not ready for it, then
do you feel like you shouldcontinue in education, because
the change is going to come andthe students are going to push
you into that change, whetherwe're ready for it or not.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You've heard from us.
Now we want to hear from you.
Drop your restorative justicereflections in the comments and
if you want to join a livecommunity conversation about our
restorative justice lessonsfrom Abba Elementary, join us
for a live event on Monday, july31.
Link with more info in thedescription.
And you know, over the courseof this show going into season
two, we're going to see a lot ofchange, a lot of growth from
(34:20):
all the characters involved.
Teaching is an ever evolvingprofession, right, and as we
come to a close with season oneof Abba Elementary like, we're
going to see a lot of differentgrowth points for all of the
characters on Abba Elementary.
But I'm curious if you were tobe cast in your dream role on
Abba Elementary, what would yourrole be?
(34:42):
Who would you play?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
If I were to be cast and added to Abbott Elementary.
There is this position that wehave in a high school where you
sometimes take your high schoolstudents and they do mentorship
programs with elementary schoolstudents, and I have taken my
students on a trip through aprogram we ran like this.
So I would love to be like thehigh school teacher that shows
(35:07):
up and builds a partnership withthe students in that way, just
because it's an easy way to seea dynamic between elementary
school teachers and thedifferent vibe of what secondary
school teachers are and likesee that interaction.
Because the differences in ourprofessions is also reflected in
(35:28):
the differences of ourpersonalities at times, because
as a secondary educator I have avery different approach to what
my students do than what a K5elementary teacher.
This and this is not ageneralization, it's just
because we have to be aboutaround different age ranges, so
some of our personality kind ofmolds into those and it just be
(35:49):
really fun for this random highschool teacher to just show up
to happy hour with Miss Chimentiand Barbara.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Your lips to Quinta in the writer's ears as we're
drawing to a close.
Is there anything else that youwant to shout out or draw
attention to while you've gotthe mic?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I just want to give a shout out to the Instagram that
I run, which is at teachingwith Corazon, if you have any
questions related to my work ineducation.
But I also want to highlightthe ongoing fact that Arizona,
in particular, is facing attacksin its education system and, as
(36:28):
of right now, oursuperintendent of public
instruction created a hotlinechallenging that whether or not
we should teach social,emotional learning in the
classrooms, challenging whetheror not we should teach about
race, ethnicity and genderidentity in the classroom, to
the point where he's created aclimate where teachers can be
reported for teaching suchthings.
And if you would like to becomeinvolved in supporting Arizona
(36:52):
school teachers whether it's,you know, supporting our donors
choose when they become public,or wanting to be connected to
our community organizations thatare continuing the battles with
our state legislator and ourstate superintendent, feel free
to send me a message at teachingwith Corazon on Instagram, and
I am just really happy to be apart of this ongoing community
(37:16):
and restorative justice.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you so much for all your wisdom, stories,
experiences to share with us aswe reflected on the season one
finale of Abba Elementary.
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