July 20, 2025 • 45 mins
Tania shares her journey from mother of three to co-founder of Melbourne's vibrant Cuban dance crew Rakata, exploring how a single dance class at age 30 completely transformed her life path.
• Beginning dance at 30 and discovering that Cuban salsa allowed her to flourish without classical training
• Transferring teaching skills from classroom to dance floor by breaking complex movements into simple steps
• Creating a dance curriculum focused on skills and expression rather than specific genres
• Learning to recognise and assert your worth in creative industries
• Honouring the cultural origins and storytelling aspects of Cuban dance
• Being signed by a modelling agency at age 50 after applying on impulse
• Appearing on SBS Insight's 50th anniversary special through a Facebook application
• Embracing midlife transitions and menopause as an opportunity for self-prioritisation
• Finding joy in trying new things without fear of failure
• The importance of creative expression and play as essential human activities
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amra Pajalic (00:01):
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes.
I'm Amra Payalich, writer,teacher and storyteller.
Pull up a chair and let's diveinto stories about writing life
and lessons learned, sharingwisdom from my armchair to yours
.
You can find the episode shownotes, your free episode
(00:22):
handouts and my how-to guides atamrahpayalichcom slash podcast.
And now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amrah's ArmchairAnecdotes.
Today I'm interviewing Tanya,who is a passionate educator and
co-founder of Rakata,melbourne's vibrant Cuban dance
crew.
With a teaching career spanningnearly three decades, she
(00:45):
blends her expertise ineducation with her love of Cuban
salsa and reggaeton.
Alongside her partner, jean,she has performed at major Latin
dance festivals in Australiaand New Zealand.
She's trained with renownedCuban artists, both locally and
in Cuba.
She brings an inclusive, highenergy workshops to schools and
(01:07):
communities, empowering dancersof all levels, and her mission
is to honor Cuban traditionwhile infusing it with
creativity, joy and a fiercelove of dance.
So welcome, tanya, thank you.
Tania Segura (01:20):
What an introduction.
I know.
Amra Pajalic (01:22):
It's always interesting when someone does an
introduction.
Tania Segura (01:24):
You're like oh, that's me.
I sound amazing, yes, when Iget that very often in life, do
we?
Amra Pajalic (01:30):
no wait, we just walk into a classroom and we're
like I am so and so no I'm doinga.
Thing but yeah so having anintroduction like yes, um.
So your life has been marked bygreat um, transition and pivots
.
When you were 30 old, you werea mother to three young children
and you decided to go to adance class.
So how did this decision changeyour life?
Tania Segura (01:52):
Well, at the time it was the only thing that I was
doing for myself and I thoughtan hour a week sounded amazing,
away from the kids and thehusband and just to do something
for myself, the husband, andjust to do something for myself.
It has started a whole new pathfor me, because from that one
dance class I became a performerwith that dance crew.
(02:13):
I met other dancers and otherdance teachers.
I then started assisting, and Iwas already a teacher at that
stage.
So then I was asked to teachclasses.
I met my now husband.
We've been together for almost17 years and we've had dance
schools at companies,performance crews all of it
(02:34):
together yeah, I just love that,where you're like a mother and
feeling overwhelmed with all ofthat and just searching for a
part of yourself and you just dothis one thing just this one
dance class and I and I was 30and I was a mother of three and
I sort of had the idea that ifyou were going to be a dancer
any sort of you know, be anygood at it, you had to start
(02:57):
when you were three and you hadto do ballet and classical and
then have a lifetime.
But I found Cuban salsa andCuban salsa is a street dance,
it's very heavily into being acultural dance, not a ballroom
dance, and it was all in andalso I love the fact that you
were a teacher and so you justhad that skill where you were
(03:19):
able to translate dancing andteaching dancing.
Amra Pajalic (03:24):
So it wasn't very long where you were doing the
dance lessons, where you weresort of tapped on the shoulder
and, yeah, um asked to startdoing that yeah, and I think the
skills of teaching can betransferred to anything.
Tania Segura (03:35):
I wasn't teaching dance.
I was an art teacher, aliteracy teacher.
Um, I think I was still aprimary school teacher.
Yes, I was still a primaryschool teacher at that stage and
so I was teaching science andhumanities and maths and all
sorts of things that weren'treally in my bag but if you know
how to teach.
It's about making complex thingsless abstract, making them
simple one step at a time, andif I knew how to do a dance step
(03:58):
, then I could teach someoneelse how to do it yeah, and then
you transitioned from primaryschool teaching to high school
teaching and you became a highschool dance teacher.
Yes, yes, and so I I didn't haveany formal training.
I um was asked to do a vettraining course because I
(04:20):
couldn't teach vce dance, but Icould teach vet dance and that
was a really quick course.
I think I can't remember maybe12 hours of face-to-face, but it
was all about getting what Ihad done in practice and using
those hours up against what Ihadn't done in academia.
And when I think one of thehours I couldn't attend because
(04:43):
I was teaching at the JohnsonStreet Latin Fiesta and they
were like, well, that'll countas hours.
Amra Pajalic (04:48):
Yes.
Tania Segura (04:49):
And so, yeah, that was great, and I don't think
there was a dance curriculumthere at the school.
I wrote it for seven, eight andnine, pushed to get it to year
10 for a long time and beyond,but there just wasn't the
physical space in the performingarts.
There were only 30 periodsavailable and sharing that with
drama meant that we couldn't putanother five hours of year 10
(05:10):
dance on the grid.
Amra Pajalic (05:11):
Yeah, I just love how you know you're a teacher.
But then whatever we haveoutside of that world we can
also bring in, and we can bringin that passion and those
connections.
Tania Segura (05:22):
Yeah, and I think that happens a lot, even with
professional learning.
You something and you bring itin.
You see, if it works, you keepit, if it doesn't work, you let
it go.
But I think being a teacher Imean anyone really can learn the
skills.
Amra Pajalic (05:36):
But it's about um your passion and your interest
and how much you want to shareyeah, I remember one of the
first early years of teachingand one of my students, um, was
like you know, miss, you're anexpert.
And I, I sort of had this momentwhere I was like I'm, I'm an
(05:56):
expert, I'm, I'm an expert inthis, um, and then they were
like, yeah, the way that youbring the passion and the way
that you talk about it and theway that you and I was like, oh
my gosh, I, I really am, becauseyou know, as a professional
writer and then as a teacher ofEnglish, the way I break it down
and that's the same with you asa dancer and then a dance
teacher the way that you know tobreak it down, the way that you
(06:17):
know to use the terminology tomake it accessible, to build the
confidence and to sort of focuson trying to get people to
enjoy and find it.
And even now, when I doworkshops, I'm just so like
people get blown away by the waythat I put in bed grammar, in
(06:40):
the writing of it, which isfascinating to me because I
wasn't taught grammar in school.
Yes, but through becoming ateacher, I've really learned how
to deconstruct language and howto focus on language and focus
on structure.
So it's just really interestingthe skills that that you learn
and the way that you knowdefinitely the way you shift and
(07:00):
you change and I also think,like I said, I've never been
classically trained.
Tania Segura (07:04):
I don't have contemporary, I don't have
ballet, I don't have any ofthose.
What I have is street, and whatI have is latin and very niche
cuban.
And so the dance program wasn'tbuilt around genre, it was
built around skills.
Rhythm is rhythm, balance isbalance, and so the kids who I,
I could model, and I thinkthat's something that we do as
teachers, and I said to the kidsI'm never going to ask you to
(07:25):
do something that I won't domyself.
And so if a kid wanted to showbalance through ballet, they
could.
If they wanted to show itthrough break dancing, they
could.
If they wanted to show itthrough something a little more
interpretive, then that was okay.
And so the program was reallybuilt around skills and
expression.
Amra Pajalic (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing you sort
of make, it that accessible.
Tania Segura (07:48):
Differentiated.
Amra Pajalic (07:49):
Oh, differentiation, oh my gosh.
We do like a whole episode onthat.
I have a lot to say on that.
So you and your partner, jean,have won the 2024 second place
professional division atAustralian Rueda Championships
the 2015 second placeprofessional division, um 2015.
So you've won a lot ofcompetitions and, you know,
(08:12):
competed professionally, um, butwhat have been?
The highlights and what are thestruggles in being a cuban
dance instructor andchoreographer?
Tania Segura (08:21):
um, okay, so latin dancing is very broad.
Um, cuban dancing is niche, andI'm going to try and explain
this without talking for hoursand hours as we can, as we can.
So, basically, salsa is whatpeople recognize as Cuban dance.
(08:44):
Salsa originated in Cuba.
Very basically, it was themeeting of Spanish rhythms and
African drums.
That's like the very basic wayof explaining it.
But there's years of history andit was only called salsa when
it moved to the US, becausesalsa means a sauce.
So it was a little mix ofthings.
(09:04):
Called salsa when it moved tothe us because salsa means a
sauce, so it was a little mix ofthings.
So I guess one of the strugglesis that a lot of people
recognize salsa as what they seeon dancing with the stars,
which is a ballroom style, andthat was the standardization of
what was coming out culturallyfrom this little island, cuba
and standardization often meansbastardization, because what
(09:25):
they're keeping is a moment intime and they say that this move
will always be this move andthis is how we say that it's
done well, but culture is alwaysevolving.
So the way people dance salsa inCuba in the 50s and then even
in the 2000s and now the 220s,it's changing and evolving and
(09:47):
so I guess one of the thingsthat's difficult is to keep
doing this thing that isevolving, to keep paying
respects to the ancestors ofwhere these dances come from and
some people of where this dancehas come from, and some people
(10:08):
don't like to recognise that,and it means that we can often
come across as righteous, andthat is not what I want to do,
because dance is inclusive.
Everyone can dance, everyone isfree to dance.
I guess the difference is thatI like to honour where it's come
from and remember where it'scome from and remember where
it's come from, and I don'tdance ballroom and I don't dance
(10:29):
linear or LA styles.
I dance Cuban and even thoughthat is niche compared to all
the other salsa styles, I'mhappy to keep that, that style,
and I'm happy to keep that honorto the culture what I love.
Amra Pajalic (10:45):
When I talk to you about it, you actually talk
about the storytelling aspectand the and the way that it's
weaved in the culture and yeslike really embedding um.
What is the meaning of what youare dancing?
Yes exactly what I was alwaysstruck by is that dancing is
another way of storytelling yes,like you are actually dancing a
story.
Tania Segura (11:03):
Yes, yes, and dance comes from culture.
Dance comes from somewhere.
It's an expression of the music, an expression of the time, of
the people, and so to have thisthing where there's a little box
around it and a move mustalways be done this way, like
there's a saying that you danceto express, not to impress, and
(11:26):
that's not my saying.
That's a saying that's probablyprinted on a moon t-shirt
somewhere, but I think you needto know what you're dancing and
why, and then connect to it.
So connecting to your body, theway your body moves, the way
your partner's moving, the waythe music is, what's happening
at the party, or if it's on aperformance, why are you putting
these moves to this part of themusic?
(11:47):
What does it mean?
It's not just about um theathleticism of it.
So I think dancing can be asport and in saying that we have
entered competitions, but we'veentered human competitions and
every competition we've entered,we've entered with a means to
win and we haven't come firstbut we've won second.
(12:09):
So I'm not really into thesporting aspect of it.
Amra Pajalic (12:15):
But in one sense, like, what I find fascinating is
you'll do a day of teaching andyou'll go and dance for three
hours, but you'll just come backrefreshed, yes, and just
glowing and just so happy andbody tired.
Tania Segura (12:29):
Yes, but body tired is not the same as
mentally tired.
No and um, when we were runningour dance school in the covid
dark years, people said whydon't you just, uh, do classes
online, which a lot of peoplewere doing?
I couldn't at that point,because being a teacher six
hours online already doing thatremote teaching and then running
(12:51):
remote classes, that wasstealing the joy out of it, and
so so we closed our school atthat point, yeah I the dark
times right well, having saidthat, now, um, doing delivering
writing courses, um, I'm doingit a lot more online and I'm
finding it really great becauseit's so much more accessible in
(13:12):
terms of people from anywhere.
Amra Pajalic (13:15):
And even I just did one in the heart of a
Melbourne winter and I was sothankful because I was like, oh
my gosh, I thought of leavingthe house and I don't think
anybody would have left thehouse, so it was there's been
some bonuses in that way, and Iguess there's enough time passed
now that you're not stuck inthat all day long.
(13:35):
And also, being a teacher, Iknow how I have to bring the
energy.
Like you have to bring theenergy if you're doing it in
person, you have to bring theenergy if you're doing it online
.
More, probably More yeahbecause I finish and I'm like
sweaty, just completely coveredin sweat during the two-hour
workshop that I delivered,because you really do need to
(13:57):
connect and you really need tolike bring people in and get
them to feel it yeah, so yeahpros and cons, now we can
appreciate those.
So yeah, pros and cons, now wecan appreciate those.
So, as director of Rakata, youare running your own dance
studio with Jean, who's yourpartner in dance and life.
What are some lessons that youhave learned in running a
business?
Tania Segura (14:19):
Okay.
Amra Pajalic (14:21):
Your business is difficult, you're actually
dealing with dance crews andwith people.
Yes, politics and like you know, with me as an author, I'm like
I'll just with dance crews andwith people and politics.
Like you know, with me as anauthor I'm like I'll just do my
thing and then I'll leave.
You know, I run workshops andstuff, but it's different, like
you've actually got to work withpeople.
Tania Segura (14:37):
I think one of the biggest lessons is that we need
to recognise our own worth andour own value, especially when
we were starting as new kidsdoing cuban dance.
I have an italian background,gene has a filipino background.
We don't look cuban, um, peoplewere offering to hire us for no
(15:02):
cots, like they'd say, thingslike the exposure will be great,
um, which I understand.
At the start we were takinggigs for not a lot of money, but
then we sort of came acrosspeople who were doing it for
free.
So people would say we can hireyou and pay you a hundred
(15:22):
dollars, which is really notmuch, and we'd say, no, we're
worth more than $100, we chargethis much and we didn't want to
undercut ourselves.
But there were people who werewilling to do it for free and
then we were thinking, oh, we'remissing out on business, we're
missing out on takingconnections, we're missing out
because people are willing toundercut and that lesson was in
(15:44):
learning.
Well, if that's how they seetheir value, that's on them.
We don't want to bring ourprice down because someone can't
recognize what we do.
And now that we've been doingit for a long time so I've been
dancing for 20 years.
Gene may be the same.
You mentioned in my bio that wehave mentors who are really
(16:06):
cuban masters here in melbourne,that we've gone and trained in
cuba as well.
So, coming back to that lesson,we know what we can bring.
We know the energy.
We know even if it's a threeminute performance that we're
bringing that's hours ofchoreographing.
Before you get to thechoreography there's hours of
(16:28):
listening to music.
Then there's things like howcan we qualify this dance class
that we did with someone and wetook that little bit that we're
now putting in this choreographyand we paid hundreds to do that
.
So that's been a big lesson, ifthe is right for us.
We also do community gigs for amuch lower price.
(16:49):
So it's not just always aboutthe money, but how much can we
bring and what are we worth inour time?
The other thing is that Jeanand I are also life partners,
not just dance partners, solooking after ourselves and each
other has been really important.
We've had lots of students whocome and go and, of course,
because we're only a little bitof their dance journey.
(17:11):
But there were times when wewere investing so much in the
students, on keeping loyalstudents and making the students
feel like family and becomingfriends, but then understanding
they also have to go and move on.
So the lesson is je and I arerocketer, we will always look
after ourselves and each other,and if it works to have students
(17:32):
with us, then great.
But there have been times whenwe haven't, and there's still
the two of us and we can make itwork I think that journey of
learning your worth is such abig thing.
Amra Pajalic (17:44):
When you are in the arts because everyone knows
the value of arts and howimportant they are we immerse
ourselves so much.
You know, we love our tv shows,our podcasts, our movies, our
music.
This is all art.
Writing, all art.
Um, we appreciate it.
It gives us that sense of worthand life.
But when you are the producer,you're constantly fighting that
(18:08):
battle.
Yes, because we love it, yes,and we just want to do it, yes,
but then people want to you know, almost exploit it, yes, and
they want the benefit from itwithout remuneration.
And you know, I'm sure, um, youknow, I'm wondering if you can
relate to this, where it's likeyou know what I want to write,
I'll write for myself, that willmake me happy, um, but if I'm
(18:30):
putting it out there, I want tobe paid for it.
Tania Segura (18:32):
Yes, you know, because we can still do our
practice, people who have abudget for other things but not
a budget for entertainment howmuch?
value are they putting on theentertainment?
And I do lots of free things,like jean and I will make
instagram reels.
We don't get paid.
We're doing that for the joy,we're doing that for connection.
We're doing that.
It's a really cool song,there's a really cool dance.
There's a trend.
Let's get on it.
(18:53):
Let's have fun.
I'm not asking for money foreverything I do, but if someone
is running an event and they'rewilling to pay for entertainment
, well, that shows how muchvalue they're putting on it and
if they want to get someone forless, then they're free to get
someone for less, and there's nohate on that.
Amra Pajalic (19:10):
But we know how much we bring and I think that's
the joy of having done thingsfor a long time and having that
sense of where we don't feel,simo, no, we don't need it.
If someone else wants to do it,good on them that's right, um,
but we are not going to do itwithout having that.
You know, remuneration, um, andyou know you get constantly
(19:31):
like I get people reaching outon you know linkedin.
I had one guy he's reaching outabout writing something.
I'm like I'm at the point nowwhere I will start that
conversation and I will say whatis the remuneration?
Yeah, um, because it takes along time.
You know, I have been tricked.
I have had people presentthings as if they were a
professional gig and then Irealised afterwards I
(19:56):
volunteered but I hadn't beenasked to volunteer.
Tania Segura (20:01):
I had actually been manipulated.
Exactly, and it's different.
Yes and if someone says this isa community gig, we're running
it for a charity, we're notpaying.
Would you like to offer a danceclass, a dance performance?
Then we have the choice to say,yes, we'd like to support this
charity or no, that's not for us, yeah, and so now, when people
(20:21):
ask for performances especiallyaround Christmas time, everyone
wants a dance class or dances orsomething fun.
They'll say this is our budgetand I'll say for that much, you
can get an hour dance instructor, but no performance.
And they'll say, oh, we'd like aperformance of 10 people.
We're like, well, they need tobe paid too, and so a 10-person
performance costs this much.
(20:42):
And they're like, oh, maybewe'll just have the instructor.
Then we're like, oh, maybewe'll just have the instructor.
Then, yeah, okay, well, as longas you know what your budget's
worth.
But if you don't say, then theydon't know either.
Amra Pajalic (20:53):
And you're also preparing them for the next time
.
Yes, and also, whenever you areoffering a premium or a
discount, you make that very,very clear.
You put actually on the invoiceum, or you know, you state yes,
10 discount, whatever you'reoffering.
Because that needs to be clear,because then if they're going
around and telling oh, we've gotthis great thing for this much
money.
No, no, no.
You've got the special makes,right, you've got the local
(21:15):
discount.
Someone else won't get that.
Tania Segura (21:18):
And we also do private dance lessons, so we
have wedding couples comingthrough.
If we don't know them, wecharge.
But If we don't know them, wecharge.
But I've never charged like myniece or my nephew for a dance
lesson, like I want to be there.
Yeah, see, we choreographedthat and you looked awesome.
Amra Pajalic (21:31):
Yeah, you know, that's the thing.
When we're helping our friends,it's a different thing.
Yes, yeah, so recently youmarked a new chapter in your
life when you were accepted as amodel by a new agency.
Tania Segura (21:49):
Now I want this story.
This is the best story I haveheard.
Listen to this, okay.
So I'm into choosing joy at themoment, going for things that I
normally wouldn't go for.
So on instagram, as I wasscrolling, a photo studio said
new, looking for a new model.
What do we need?
In a hundred words or less,what should we be looking for?
(22:11):
I talked about old women.
I talked about diversity.
I talked about representation,put my submission in.
They got back to me.
I didn't win the campaign, ohwell, we had a go.
But they said we can bring youin for a photo shoot if you'd
like and I thought, okay, whynot?
(22:32):
So the photo shoot was twohours.
They called me beforehand whatdo you want to wear?
What are you going for?
I picked out some outfits.
I talked about my outfits for along time, of what I was going
to wear.
I went in, had a great photoshoot.
Awesome studio photographer wasamazing, took me to different
things lighting, put your chinup, move your shoulder.
(22:54):
All of that styling Went backfor the viewing, which was a
little bit confronting bigscreen with all my images up
there.
What would I like to buy?
and in that moment I thoughtthese images are amazing, that's
me, but they're amazing the waythe photographers know what
(23:14):
they're doing my outfits but Ihad hair and styling done um the
lighting, the framing, andthat's where I sort of
understood that we're 3D people.
But photography is a 2D art andthere are people who know what
they're doing and there aremodels who know what they're
doing.
What shapes, what angles, whatfaces, what expression are you
(23:38):
bringing, what vulnerability areyou bringing, what power, what
control?
And so I bought those images.
I also got a few images forfree, and then the producer said
here's a list of modelingstudios.
These ones are for mature age,these are editorial, these are
for this, this and that.
Why don't you apply?
I?
(23:58):
went back and talked togirlfriends and said I don't
want to do that, I don't want tobe a model.
And then one day I thought onlya few weeks later I thought well
, if I don't ask, the answersalways know I'll apply.
I applied to one studio, whichshall not be named, who didn't
even reply, but then I appliedto this second with my images
(24:19):
and they said coming for aninterview.
I went in for an interview, hada great interview.
Later that day, or maybe thenext day, they wrote back and
offered me a 12-month contractfor commercial modelling and
casting.
So I accepted.
Amra Pajalic (24:34):
What I love about that you've kind of left this
out is you were kind of at home.
Yeah, getting a bit blah, yeah,like, uh, and then that's when
you apply yeah, so you know,this is the thing Sometimes,
these moments where it's justlike impulse, yeah, impulse, I
just want to fix your microphone.
Yes, it's just kind of tuckedin a little bit.
Okay, I'm very expressive withmy hand movements.
(24:57):
I know all about it, so I justlove that also, where it's like
and this was just an Instagramcompetition of which you do many
, many, yeah, and so you know, Ireally believe a lot in that,
where you just put things outinto the world and you don't
know what will come back.
Tania Segura (25:12):
That's right, but it's just having those
possibilities, it's thepossibilities and I thought,
well, if I didn't apply, my lifewould be the same.
Yeah, and if I applied anddidn't get it, my life would be
the same.
I'm not losing anything byapplying, but if you apply and
you get it, then the world canchange.
Well, that's the thing.
And now Jean has also yes, mybeautiful darling husband.
(25:38):
I think he was just inspired bymy story, because we sort of
have an idea.
Well, I grew up in the 90s andthere was Kate Moss and there
was Naomi Campbell and there wasClaudia Schiffer, and if you
didn't look like them, youweren't a model.
But, now the world has opened upand people of all shapes, sizes
(25:58):
, ethnicities, backgrounds, ageswant to be in front of the
camera, and people want to seethat in front of the camera.
And people want to see that infront of the camera.
And so gene went and had agreat time with a photo shoot um
, because really great imagesand then thought, well, I'll
apply to the same agency.
Amra Pajalic (26:19):
And so he applied, got an interview and now has
been offered a contract as welland the exciting thing is um,
there are a lot of gigs that arebeing offered where it's
looking for couples or pairs,yes, and so this is also an
opportunity.
Tania Segura (26:32):
Things that we can apply together.
Amra Pajalic (26:33):
Yeah, yeah, so it's sort of opening up more
doors.
Tania Segura (26:36):
I'm just really excited to see what happens.
Same.
You know like we both appliedfor something that's in the
works at the moment and we bothgot a call back to do a
self-tape.
So we both sent auditions in tosee what the next stage is.
And if we both get it great,and if one of us gets it great,
and if we don't get it, yeah, ohwell.
Well, it's just a possibility,yeah now.
Amra Pajalic (26:56):
Well, if your life just gets more and more
interesting.
You had a recent brush withfame as a guest does on sbs
insight for their 50thanniversary edition.
So again, how did this happenand what effect?
Tania Segura (27:09):
does this?
Have experience, so this is thesame story I know I love the
same story, except it wasn'tinstagram, it was facebook.
This time scroll scroll do yousee?
Do you see start?
Amra Pajalic (27:20):
applying for these things.
Tania Segura (27:21):
So facebook, um, sbs was turning 50.
This year is turning 50.
This year is turning 50 thisyear.
Insight, the program on SBS,put out a little thing.
Sbs is turning 50.
Have you turned 50 recently?
What's your story?
I?
Amra Pajalic (27:34):
turned 50 last year.
Tania Segura (27:37):
So I put a little bit about my life and mentioned
that I'd just been signed to amodelling agency.
So weeks later, a producercalled me back and said we're
gathering information aboutAustralians turning 50.
Yours looked really excitingand different.
Tell us about it.
So I talked about the samestory with the modelling agency.
(27:59):
I talked about dancing.
I talked about my husband.
I talked about my first husband, divorce, my children,
menopause.
I talked about being a highschool teacher.
It was a two-hour chat on thephone and she said great, we've
gathered lots of information,thanks for your time.
And then, about a month later,the same producer called me back
and said I've brought yourstory to the table.
(28:23):
We'd like to invite you to beon the show, which was kind of
exciting.
And I said so when was it?
When is the filming?
And they said it's during theschool holidays and it's at our
expense.
Yes, so I thought it would besilly to say no, I don't need to
take time off work, I don'tneed to put any money towards
this.
I've already got time where I'mjust hanging around the house
anyway.
(28:43):
So all expenses paid, whichmeant flight accommodation,
dinner that night, breakfast thenext morning, cab charges.
I think in two days I spent like$6 on a chai or something like
it was all expenses paid andthat was a really great
experience to be in a studio tounderstand how TV works.
(29:07):
Um, I got to listen to otherstories.
I met anthony mundy, which wasreally exciting.
You know the addition, yeah,yeah, um, and just to be part of
that experience, to see how itall feels, I also found out I'm
quite an expressive listener.
Amra Pajalic (29:24):
Yes, because she got so much air time, so much
air time and there's a littlebit where I go.
Yes, I love to cry.
Tania Segura (29:31):
She's like dabbing , dabbing gently and crying,
because my gorgeous, talenteddaughter did my makeup for me
and she said if you cry, if,like, I cry all the time at
everything.
Amra Pajalic (29:43):
she said if you cry, don't wipe because it'll
ruin the makeup, so I verycarefully dabbed away the tears
which made a dramatic moment.
I was really good so that wasgreat.
And then, after that of course,I shared it on all my socials.
Tania Segura (30:01):
I was so excited about you know this experience
that I had.
And then then, the photo studiowho started this journey, who
took those photos in the firstplace, saw my Instagram reel and
circled back and had aninterview with me.
They liked my story, which wasreally their story and spoke to
(30:24):
me about putting a campaigntogether.
I'm not sure whether it's topromote their studio or just a
campaign that they'd like to do,but it was really nice to have
that conversation with them andperhaps something will come of
it, but maybe not.
But like in dancing, like inlife, business is always
personal.
(30:44):
It's about making connectionsand maybe you'll use those
connections later for somethingas part of your business or to
grow your business.
But maybe it's just aboutmaking that connection.
Amra Pajalic (30:57):
Yeah, and I think also just joy.
I think we talk about this alot, a lot, because, you know,
we're teachers and we loveteaching.
In the moments in the classroomthey're always different, but
in terms of the institution of,you know, school and being in a
school, it's very deja vu, yes,um, and everything's planned a
(31:18):
year in advance and all of this.
And so for us, and especiallyat this point in our lives,
we're just looking for joy.
Yes, we're just looking forinteresting and new experiences,
and also, I think we are braverthan we've ever been before.
Tania Segura (31:33):
I think so because failure is just another step
closer to what you're trying toachieve, whatever that success
is.
So if someone said to you youhave to apply to a job 25 times,
but on the 26th you'll get it,you don't see those 25 as
failures, you just see it as thenext step.
(31:54):
We don't know, it's 25.
It might be 100.
It might be 1,000.
It might be a million.
You don't know but what.
It might be 100, it might be1,000, it might be a million.
You don't know.
But what if it's only two?
What if it's only six?
And so you don't see those asfailures.
You think, well, I made thatconnection, I had that
opportunity.
It wasn't for me, but when itis for me, and what is for me
will find me, and I think theother joy is you don't even
(32:15):
think about the ones that don'tsucceed anymore.
Amra Pajalic (32:17):
You know like onto the next thing.
You don't dwell so much.
Yeah, oh well, what's the nextthing?
Yeah, um, and so then, ifthings happen, they happen.
If they don't, you're like justa lot more flow to you I think
so too.
Tania Segura (32:28):
Yeah, and just go with the flow, yeah, which is
really nice.
Amra Pajalic (32:31):
yeah, because you know, after so many years of
like I'm almost trying, um, I'menjoying now where I'm like I
don't feel like I'm trying, I dothings, and it sometimes feels
like I'm almost not doing things, but I am.
I'm actually generating all ofthis.
But it's just like this is thelogical thing.
(32:52):
You just go and do this, youjust, and then whatever happens
happens.
Tania Segura (32:55):
Yeah, whatever happens.
And I think now maybe we'rereaping those rewards and making
all those connections of doingall that learning, of trialing
different things, ofexperimenting, failing although
what is failing I don't know,it's just giving it a go and it
(33:15):
didn't work.
Amra Pajalic (33:16):
Yeah, like it's not that deep no, and like I,
because as teachers we do this alot where we have this
conversation with the students,where they're lacking so much in
confidence and they're kind ofalmost paralysed by it.
Tania Segura (33:28):
Yes.
Amra Pajalic (33:29):
And so we're having to really work through
that in terms of the teachingpart, and it's just about trying
and getting there.
And you know, so much of it ismuscle memory and that's the
thing with us now at this point,where we're just trying things.
It's just muscle memory, youjust do things.
Tania Segura (33:46):
Just give it a go.
Amra Pajalic (33:47):
Just do it.
Tania Segura (33:48):
And I think there's success in repetition.
Amra Pajalic (33:52):
Yes, very much so, very much so, like this whole
podcast kind of just came to be.
And then this interview processum, I'm interviewing all of my
friends and people I know, firstbecause I need to build that up
within myself.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now, um, what are some pros andcons?
(34:15):
So just to transition like in asense we sort of talked about
it like the pros and cons abouttransitioning into midlife.
So I think we've got a questionon that.
Tania Segura (34:23):
Okay, yeah, definitely.
Less fear, yeah, less worryabout what other people think,
less fear of judgment, not soworried about the perfectionism
anymore.
I think first create it, thenyou can clean it up.
And I think you know I do thatwith choreography, I do that
with the classes, but also withlearning new things, like I'm in
(34:44):
a position of learning, um, howto do a self-tape, how to do an
audition, what it means to bein front of a camera you should
have heard her technicalquestions before we sat down.
Where would you like me to sit?
Where would you like me to look?
Amra Pajalic (34:58):
you know these are things I hadn't thought about.
I'm just like you, just sit,you plonk yourself um, I also
think midlife brings menopause.
Tania Segura (35:06):
Do you want me to talk about?
Amra Pajalic (35:07):
oh, please do that is the next question on my list
question.
Tania Segura (35:10):
So menopause, I've thought a lot about this.
I've always been very aware ofmy physical womanhood, like and
I think in that, like you know,we've had conversation about
periods and menstrual cycles,and I've had menstrual cycles
that have been painful and butI've always seen it, as this is
(35:36):
so cliche, a blessing to be awoman Only someone with her
joyous reproductive system cansay this and I think of course
there are lots of horriblethings about the way we're
treated as women and that's awhole other conversation.
But I sort of saw my menstrualcycle as an opportunity to be
(35:59):
rid of what wasn't working thatmonth.
An opportunity to be rid ofwhat wasn't working that month,
an opportunity to rage andscream and cry and physically
let go of what wasn't working inyou know, the menstrual cycle.
And I think that men sort ofhold on to that toxicity because
they don't have that menstrualcycle where they get to rage and
(36:21):
cry and say all the thingsthey've been holding on to and
and so menopause has been well.
I kind of think it's a greatplace to be.
I've had the hot flushes, I'vehad the rage.
I've had the hot flushes, I'vehad the rage, I've had, all you
know, nosebleeds and jointstiffness and Frozen shoulder.
(36:45):
Frozen shoulder and emotionsthat haven't been in my control,
and sadness and anger andindifference and all of that.
But I think as women, we get tohave menopause, we get to be
out of that mothering maternalcycle and I think there's still
(37:05):
room to create.
But there's something aboutleaving the maiden and embracing
the crone.
Amra Pajalic (37:12):
Yes, I love that actually yeah, and I don't mean
chrome like witchy hag which Ikind of like I do kind of like
we get to be smart beasts if wewant yes, and that that's the
thing you'd get to the point.
You just don't care, but I alsothink.
Tania Segura (37:27):
With the chrome comes the oracle, the sage, the
wise woman, the mentor, andwe're not in this veil of
estrogen, of producing, and oncethat veil drops, we get to own
ourselves a little more.
We're not about keeping thefamily, creating the family, um,
(37:50):
because with that there'salways a little bit of
self-sacrifice.
Some compromise, yes, um,keeping the unit together,
putting yourself.
Second put not even second, noteven on a list you know, write
a list of all the people youlove.
When do you get to write yourname on it?
Yeah, um, and I think there'ssomething in you know.
(38:11):
I know I don't mean beingselfish, but I know that there's
a little bit of every day.
If you can make someone's lifebetter, that's great, but what
if, some days, it's your life?
Amra Pajalic (38:24):
Yes, and that's what I'm enjoying putting myself
first, actually listening to myvoice, listening to what I want
.
There's a joke in my house I'ma bit of a narcissist, I'm
turning into a bit of anarcissist and I'm like yep,
love it, I want it.
Tania Segura (38:40):
Yeah, I think we should reclaim a little bit of
that and I think in menopausethat's the time, yes, and you
know, it can be little thingslike what do you want for dinner
tonight?
I don't mind you cook, or itcan be.
I really feel like chicken,like it's such a little shift,
yes.
And then there are big things.
You know.
(39:00):
There are women who aredivorcing during this time.
Yes, there are women who aremaking career changes.
There are women who are sadlybecoming homeless because
everything is upside down.
And I think it's aboutunderstanding, controlling and
directing where it all happens.
Amra Pajalic (39:21):
Yes, if you can, and I mean for me.
I am on hormone replacementtherapy For me.
I had to because things gotreally bad.
I know you were front andcentre for that, like you know,
counselling me through on adaily basis and I was this close
to divorce.
Tania Segura (39:41):
But sometimes, like you know, you're crazy
right, like sometimes thoseconversations are like this is
not right Just embrace the crazyLike yep, but things are better
now and now I can find the joyin it.
Amra Pajalic (39:56):
But there are a lot of women in my position who
do need the hormone replacementtherapy, who do need um the the
support and the pharmaceuticalsupport um in order definitely,
and then there are women likeyou who don't.
Um, I'm so happy for you, um,but yeah, like it's, it's a very
(40:16):
and there's also a correlationbetween you always had great
things with your reproductivesystem.
Tania Segura (40:22):
Yes, emily felt pregnant.
Amra Pajalic (40:24):
Yes, the regular cycle, the nice light cycle, and
then people like me who haddifficulty getting pregnant.
My cycle was always, you know,off very heavy.
Tania Segura (40:36):
I think I had endometriosisosis, so always a
lot going on and I think that'srecognizing that I have been
very blessed in that area andI'm aware of where my body is,
but it means that you've alwaysalso been aware of where your
body is and and how to managecontrol.
Amra Pajalic (40:55):
Be aware of that so it's not about myself was
better than yours no, but it'salso about the fact that you do
need to prepare, Like you doneed to sort of think about how
has your body dealt with thesechanges and these transitions,
and for me they were always hardand always brutal.
Yes, and so you know, I didseek help.
Tania Segura (41:14):
I was very fortunate that at this time
there is a recognition of youknow, being able to use hormone
replacement therapy that that atthis time there is a
recognition of you know beingable to use hormone replacement
therapy, that a lot of the stuffthat was about it has been
debunked completely Well.
Amra Pajalic (41:25):
A lot of the studies were old, they are and
they were actually.
Like you know, they are not thehormones that are being used
now, so there was a lot ofmisinformation.
A lot of women suffered, so I'mvery thankful to be at this
time where I'm getting thebenefit of that and I think it's
our generation.
Tania Segura (41:41):
Yes, we're not a voiceless generation.
Amra Pajalic (41:44):
And we are not accepting it as because there's
so much misogyny in medicine, sowe're not accepting it.
Tania Segura (41:48):
No.
Amra Pajalic (41:49):
We're not going.
No, that's fine.
Accept the pain, it is what itis.
Yeah, it's like.
No, we deserve a good qualityof life.
We deserve a good third act.
Yes, you know, because this isthe thing.
This is the time for the thirdact and this is the time to
still be fabulous.
Tania Segura (42:03):
Yes, and to do fabulous things.
And you don't have to be amaiden, you can be a crone.
Amra Pajalic (42:07):
Yes, and to be a fabulous crone, yes, thank you,
yes, in the swamp.
So just any last words on thepower of the arts for well-being
and joy oh well, I think peopletake them for granted.
Tania Segura (42:23):
Like we talked a little bit about that dark
lockdown two years people turnedto music, books, film, tv,
creating art.
Um, anyone who was on reels ortiktok at the time was a dancer
and was like, yes, this is whatwe should be doing.
You don't need a degree to havefun, to choose joy.
(42:46):
You can start painting, you canstart writing, you can do all
that.
So it wasn't like in the darktimes, but also when people want
to celebrate, let's go see amovie.
I read a really great book.
Do you want to do this?
Come dancing, pick up aninstrument, make music, and we
should be celebrating that thearts are here.
(43:08):
I think it's what makes ushuman.
I think when you have a littlebit of spare time and you don't
need to work an extra shift, andyou don't need to cook a meal
and you don't need to, peoplethen turn to what if I made
something?
Or what if I went back andpicked up the knitting needles?
Or what if I?
And so I think it would belovely if ai eventually took all
(43:33):
our jobs and we could just play.
We could play and thegovernment would look after us
and give us shelter and food andall the things we needed.
Amra Pajalic (43:42):
Well, yeah, there is more.
There are some places in in theworld now where they are
offering a living wage becausethey literally are not enough
jobs wow people right.
So for me it's fantasy, but Ialso grew up with sarah connor,
so I'm a little bit wary of itI'm actually, um, I mean, that's
the thing also like I, thistime of life and this ability to
(44:05):
sort of try things.
It's also about play.
It's also about just doingthings for the fun and for the
joy, and just almost it'sirrelevant the result, it's just
the actual process.
Yes, like just just trying andhaving fun and just doing
something different and alsolearning new skills.
I'm loving learning newsoftware packages and learning
(44:28):
new things Me too.
Tania Segura (44:30):
Yeah, the learning is exciting because it's new.
I'm sure it does somethingamazing to the brain the
learning yeah.
As does dancing.
Everyone should be dancing allday, every day, at least
starting the day well, I do I domy dancing, uh, in my bedroom.
Amra Pajalic (44:47):
Yes, great, I do, and it doesn't need to be
monetized like art.
Tania Segura (44:52):
Creating and play should be something we do
because we're human.
Amra Pajalic (44:56):
Yes, yeah, I mean there is joy when you do get
paid.
Yes, but if you're good at it,if you could, yeah, but it's
just also um, you're just justhaving that play, yeah for sure.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on my podcast thank you
transitioning into interviews,so I will be interviewing
different people, interestingpeople, all about joy, life,
(45:18):
midlife life, lessons and thankyou so much, tanya.
Thank you beautiful friend, forcoming on and for also being so
fabulous and so interesting.
Thank you.
So much to talk about.
Thank you so much.
Join us next time.
Thank you for tuning in toAmra's Armchair Anecdotes.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
(45:40):
follow for more insights,stories and inspiration From my
armchair to yours.
Remember every story beginswith a single word.
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes.
I'm Amra Payalich, writer,teacher and storyteller.
Pull up a chair and let's diveinto stories about writing life
and lessons learned, sharingwisdom from my armchair to yours
.
You can find the episode shownotes, your free episode
(00:22):
handouts and my how-to guides atamrahpayalichcom slash podcast.
And now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amrah's ArmchairAnecdotes.
Today I'm interviewing Tanya,who is a passionate educator and
co-founder of Rakata,melbourne's vibrant Cuban dance
crew.
With a teaching career spanningnearly three decades, she
(00:45):
blends her expertise ineducation with her love of Cuban
salsa and reggaeton.
Alongside her partner, jean,she has performed at major Latin
dance festivals in Australiaand New Zealand.
She's trained with renownedCuban artists, both locally and
in Cuba.
She brings an inclusive, highenergy workshops to schools and
(01:07):
communities, empowering dancersof all levels, and her mission
is to honor Cuban traditionwhile infusing it with
creativity, joy and a fiercelove of dance.
So welcome, tanya, thank you.
Tania Segura (01:20):
What an introduction.
I know.
Amra Pajalic (01:22):
It's always interesting when someone does an
introduction.
Tania Segura (01:24):
You're like oh, that's me.
I sound amazing, yes, when Iget that very often in life, do
we?
Amra Pajalic (01:30):
no wait, we just walk into a classroom and we're
like I am so and so no I'm doinga.
Thing but yeah so having anintroduction like yes, um.
So your life has been marked bygreat um, transition and pivots
.
When you were 30 old, you werea mother to three young children
and you decided to go to adance class.
So how did this decision changeyour life?
Tania Segura (01:52):
Well, at the time it was the only thing that I was
doing for myself and I thoughtan hour a week sounded amazing,
away from the kids and thehusband and just to do something
for myself, the husband, andjust to do something for myself.
It has started a whole new pathfor me, because from that one
dance class I became a performerwith that dance crew.
(02:13):
I met other dancers and otherdance teachers.
I then started assisting, and Iwas already a teacher at that
stage.
So then I was asked to teachclasses.
I met my now husband.
We've been together for almost17 years and we've had dance
schools at companies,performance crews all of it
(02:34):
together yeah, I just love that,where you're like a mother and
feeling overwhelmed with all ofthat and just searching for a
part of yourself and you just dothis one thing just this one
dance class and I and I was 30and I was a mother of three and
I sort of had the idea that ifyou were going to be a dancer
any sort of you know, be anygood at it, you had to start
(02:57):
when you were three and you hadto do ballet and classical and
then have a lifetime.
But I found Cuban salsa andCuban salsa is a street dance,
it's very heavily into being acultural dance, not a ballroom
dance, and it was all in andalso I love the fact that you
were a teacher and so you justhad that skill where you were
(03:19):
able to translate dancing andteaching dancing.
Amra Pajalic (03:24):
So it wasn't very long where you were doing the
dance lessons, where you weresort of tapped on the shoulder
and, yeah, um asked to startdoing that yeah, and I think the
skills of teaching can betransferred to anything.
Tania Segura (03:35):
I wasn't teaching dance.
I was an art teacher, aliteracy teacher.
Um, I think I was still aprimary school teacher.
Yes, I was still a primaryschool teacher at that stage and
so I was teaching science andhumanities and maths and all
sorts of things that weren'treally in my bag but if you know
how to teach.
It's about making complex thingsless abstract, making them
simple one step at a time, andif I knew how to do a dance step
(03:58):
, then I could teach someoneelse how to do it yeah, and then
you transitioned from primaryschool teaching to high school
teaching and you became a highschool dance teacher.
Yes, yes, and so I I didn't haveany formal training.
I um was asked to do a vettraining course because I
(04:20):
couldn't teach vce dance, but Icould teach vet dance and that
was a really quick course.
I think I can't remember maybe12 hours of face-to-face, but it
was all about getting what Ihad done in practice and using
those hours up against what Ihadn't done in academia.
And when I think one of thehours I couldn't attend because
(04:43):
I was teaching at the JohnsonStreet Latin Fiesta and they
were like, well, that'll countas hours.
Amra Pajalic (04:48):
Yes.
Tania Segura (04:49):
And so, yeah, that was great, and I don't think
there was a dance curriculumthere at the school.
I wrote it for seven, eight andnine, pushed to get it to year
10 for a long time and beyond,but there just wasn't the
physical space in the performingarts.
There were only 30 periodsavailable and sharing that with
drama meant that we couldn't putanother five hours of year 10
(05:10):
dance on the grid.
Amra Pajalic (05:11):
Yeah, I just love how you know you're a teacher.
But then whatever we haveoutside of that world we can
also bring in, and we can bringin that passion and those
connections.
Tania Segura (05:22):
Yeah, and I think that happens a lot, even with
professional learning.
You something and you bring itin.
You see, if it works, you keepit, if it doesn't work, you let
it go.
But I think being a teacher Imean anyone really can learn the
skills.
Amra Pajalic (05:36):
But it's about um your passion and your interest
and how much you want to shareyeah, I remember one of the
first early years of teachingand one of my students, um, was
like you know, miss, you're anexpert.
And I, I sort of had this momentwhere I was like I'm, I'm an
(05:56):
expert, I'm, I'm an expert inthis, um, and then they were
like, yeah, the way that youbring the passion and the way
that you talk about it and theway that you and I was like, oh
my gosh, I, I really am, becauseyou know, as a professional
writer and then as a teacher ofEnglish, the way I break it down
and that's the same with you asa dancer and then a dance
teacher the way that you know tobreak it down, the way that you
(06:17):
know to use the terminology tomake it accessible, to build the
confidence and to sort of focuson trying to get people to
enjoy and find it.
And even now, when I doworkshops, I'm just so like
people get blown away by the waythat I put in bed grammar, in
(06:40):
the writing of it, which isfascinating to me because I
wasn't taught grammar in school.
Yes, but through becoming ateacher, I've really learned how
to deconstruct language and howto focus on language and focus
on structure.
So it's just really interestingthe skills that that you learn
and the way that you knowdefinitely the way you shift and
(07:00):
you change and I also think,like I said, I've never been
classically trained.
Tania Segura (07:04):
I don't have contemporary, I don't have
ballet, I don't have any ofthose.
What I have is street, and whatI have is latin and very niche
cuban.
And so the dance program wasn'tbuilt around genre, it was
built around skills.
Rhythm is rhythm, balance isbalance, and so the kids who I,
I could model, and I thinkthat's something that we do as
teachers, and I said to the kidsI'm never going to ask you to
(07:25):
do something that I won't domyself.
And so if a kid wanted to showbalance through ballet, they
could.
If they wanted to show itthrough break dancing, they
could.
If they wanted to show itthrough something a little more
interpretive, then that was okay.
And so the program was reallybuilt around skills and
expression.
Amra Pajalic (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the thing you sort
of make, it that accessible.
Tania Segura (07:48):
Differentiated.
Amra Pajalic (07:49):
Oh, differentiation, oh my gosh.
We do like a whole episode onthat.
I have a lot to say on that.
So you and your partner, jean,have won the 2024 second place
professional division atAustralian Rueda Championships
the 2015 second placeprofessional division, um 2015.
So you've won a lot ofcompetitions and, you know,
(08:12):
competed professionally, um, butwhat have been?
The highlights and what are thestruggles in being a cuban
dance instructor andchoreographer?
Tania Segura (08:21):
um, okay, so latin dancing is very broad.
Um, cuban dancing is niche, andI'm going to try and explain
this without talking for hoursand hours as we can, as we can.
So, basically, salsa is whatpeople recognize as Cuban dance.
(08:44):
Salsa originated in Cuba.
Very basically, it was themeeting of Spanish rhythms and
African drums.
That's like the very basic wayof explaining it.
But there's years of history andit was only called salsa when
it moved to the US, becausesalsa means a sauce.
So it was a little mix ofthings.
(09:04):
Called salsa when it moved tothe us because salsa means a
sauce, so it was a little mix ofthings.
So I guess one of the strugglesis that a lot of people
recognize salsa as what they seeon dancing with the stars,
which is a ballroom style, andthat was the standardization of
what was coming out culturallyfrom this little island, cuba
and standardization often meansbastardization, because what
(09:25):
they're keeping is a moment intime and they say that this move
will always be this move andthis is how we say that it's
done well, but culture is alwaysevolving.
So the way people dance salsa inCuba in the 50s and then even
in the 2000s and now the 220s,it's changing and evolving and
(09:47):
so I guess one of the thingsthat's difficult is to keep
doing this thing that isevolving, to keep paying
respects to the ancestors ofwhere these dances come from and
some people of where this dancehas come from, and some people
(10:08):
don't like to recognise that,and it means that we can often
come across as righteous, andthat is not what I want to do,
because dance is inclusive.
Everyone can dance, everyone isfree to dance.
I guess the difference is thatI like to honour where it's come
from and remember where it'scome from and remember where
it's come from, and I don'tdance ballroom and I don't dance
(10:29):
linear or LA styles.
I dance Cuban and even thoughthat is niche compared to all
the other salsa styles, I'mhappy to keep that, that style,
and I'm happy to keep that honorto the culture what I love.
Amra Pajalic (10:45):
When I talk to you about it, you actually talk
about the storytelling aspectand the and the way that it's
weaved in the culture and yeslike really embedding um.
What is the meaning of what youare dancing?
Yes exactly what I was alwaysstruck by is that dancing is
another way of storytelling yes,like you are actually dancing a
story.
Tania Segura (11:03):
Yes, yes, and dance comes from culture.
Dance comes from somewhere.
It's an expression of the music, an expression of the time, of
the people, and so to have thisthing where there's a little box
around it and a move mustalways be done this way, like
there's a saying that you danceto express, not to impress, and
(11:26):
that's not my saying.
That's a saying that's probablyprinted on a moon t-shirt
somewhere, but I think you needto know what you're dancing and
why, and then connect to it.
So connecting to your body, theway your body moves, the way
your partner's moving, the waythe music is, what's happening
at the party, or if it's on aperformance, why are you putting
these moves to this part of themusic?
(11:47):
What does it mean?
It's not just about um theathleticism of it.
So I think dancing can be asport and in saying that we have
entered competitions, but we'veentered human competitions and
every competition we've entered,we've entered with a means to
win and we haven't come firstbut we've won second.
(12:09):
So I'm not really into thesporting aspect of it.
Amra Pajalic (12:15):
But in one sense, like, what I find fascinating is
you'll do a day of teaching andyou'll go and dance for three
hours, but you'll just come backrefreshed, yes, and just
glowing and just so happy andbody tired.
Tania Segura (12:29):
Yes, but body tired is not the same as
mentally tired.
No and um, when we were runningour dance school in the covid
dark years, people said whydon't you just, uh, do classes
online, which a lot of peoplewere doing?
I couldn't at that point,because being a teacher six
hours online already doing thatremote teaching and then running
(12:51):
remote classes, that wasstealing the joy out of it, and
so so we closed our school atthat point, yeah I the dark
times right well, having saidthat, now, um, doing delivering
writing courses, um, I'm doingit a lot more online and I'm
finding it really great becauseit's so much more accessible in
(13:12):
terms of people from anywhere.
Amra Pajalic (13:15):
And even I just did one in the heart of a
Melbourne winter and I was sothankful because I was like, oh
my gosh, I thought of leavingthe house and I don't think
anybody would have left thehouse, so it was there's been
some bonuses in that way, and Iguess there's enough time passed
now that you're not stuck inthat all day long.
(13:35):
And also, being a teacher, Iknow how I have to bring the
energy.
Like you have to bring theenergy if you're doing it in
person, you have to bring theenergy if you're doing it online
.
More, probably More yeahbecause I finish and I'm like
sweaty, just completely coveredin sweat during the two-hour
workshop that I delivered,because you really do need to
(13:57):
connect and you really need tolike bring people in and get
them to feel it yeah, so yeahpros and cons, now we can
appreciate those.
So yeah, pros and cons, now wecan appreciate those.
So, as director of Rakata, youare running your own dance
studio with Jean, who's yourpartner in dance and life.
What are some lessons that youhave learned in running a
business?
Tania Segura (14:19):
Okay.
Amra Pajalic (14:21):
Your business is difficult, you're actually
dealing with dance crews andwith people.
Yes, politics and like you know, with me as an author, I'm like
I'll just with dance crews andwith people and politics.
Like you know, with me as anauthor I'm like I'll just do my
thing and then I'll leave.
You know, I run workshops andstuff, but it's different, like
you've actually got to work withpeople.
Tania Segura (14:37):
I think one of the biggest lessons is that we need
to recognise our own worth andour own value, especially when
we were starting as new kidsdoing cuban dance.
I have an italian background,gene has a filipino background.
We don't look cuban, um, peoplewere offering to hire us for no
(15:02):
cots, like they'd say, thingslike the exposure will be great,
um, which I understand.
At the start we were takinggigs for not a lot of money, but
then we sort of came acrosspeople who were doing it for
free.
So people would say we can hireyou and pay you a hundred
(15:22):
dollars, which is really notmuch, and we'd say, no, we're
worth more than $100, we chargethis much and we didn't want to
undercut ourselves.
But there were people who werewilling to do it for free and
then we were thinking, oh, we'remissing out on business, we're
missing out on takingconnections, we're missing out
because people are willing toundercut and that lesson was in
(15:44):
learning.
Well, if that's how they seetheir value, that's on them.
We don't want to bring ourprice down because someone can't
recognize what we do.
And now that we've been doingit for a long time so I've been
dancing for 20 years.
Gene may be the same.
You mentioned in my bio that wehave mentors who are really
(16:06):
cuban masters here in melbourne,that we've gone and trained in
cuba as well.
So, coming back to that lesson,we know what we can bring.
We know the energy.
We know even if it's a threeminute performance that we're
bringing that's hours ofchoreographing.
Before you get to thechoreography there's hours of
(16:28):
listening to music.
Then there's things like howcan we qualify this dance class
that we did with someone and wetook that little bit that we're
now putting in this choreographyand we paid hundreds to do that
.
So that's been a big lesson, ifthe is right for us.
We also do community gigs for amuch lower price.
(16:49):
So it's not just always aboutthe money, but how much can we
bring and what are we worth inour time?
The other thing is that Jeanand I are also life partners,
not just dance partners, solooking after ourselves and each
other has been really important.
We've had lots of students whocome and go and, of course,
because we're only a little bitof their dance journey.
(17:11):
But there were times when wewere investing so much in the
students, on keeping loyalstudents and making the students
feel like family and becomingfriends, but then understanding
they also have to go and move on.
So the lesson is je and I arerocketer, we will always look
after ourselves and each other,and if it works to have students
(17:32):
with us, then great.
But there have been times whenwe haven't, and there's still
the two of us and we can make itwork I think that journey of
learning your worth is such abig thing.
Amra Pajalic (17:44):
When you are in the arts because everyone knows
the value of arts and howimportant they are we immerse
ourselves so much.
You know, we love our tv shows,our podcasts, our movies, our
music.
This is all art.
Writing, all art.
Um, we appreciate it.
It gives us that sense of worthand life.
But when you are the producer,you're constantly fighting that
(18:08):
battle.
Yes, because we love it, yes,and we just want to do it, yes,
but then people want to you know, almost exploit it, yes, and
they want the benefit from itwithout remuneration.
And you know, I'm sure, um, youknow, I'm wondering if you can
relate to this, where it's likeyou know what I want to write,
I'll write for myself, that willmake me happy, um, but if I'm
(18:30):
putting it out there, I want tobe paid for it.
Tania Segura (18:32):
Yes, you know, because we can still do our
practice, people who have abudget for other things but not
a budget for entertainment howmuch?
value are they putting on theentertainment?
And I do lots of free things,like jean and I will make
instagram reels.
We don't get paid.
We're doing that for the joy,we're doing that for connection.
We're doing that.
It's a really cool song,there's a really cool dance.
There's a trend.
Let's get on it.
(18:53):
Let's have fun.
I'm not asking for money foreverything I do, but if someone
is running an event and they'rewilling to pay for entertainment
, well, that shows how muchvalue they're putting on it and
if they want to get someone forless, then they're free to get
someone for less, and there's nohate on that.
Amra Pajalic (19:10):
But we know how much we bring and I think that's
the joy of having done thingsfor a long time and having that
sense of where we don't feel,simo, no, we don't need it.
If someone else wants to do it,good on them that's right, um,
but we are not going to do itwithout having that.
You know, remuneration, um, andyou know you get constantly
(19:31):
like I get people reaching outon you know linkedin.
I had one guy he's reaching outabout writing something.
I'm like I'm at the point nowwhere I will start that
conversation and I will say whatis the remuneration?
Yeah, um, because it takes along time.
You know, I have been tricked.
I have had people presentthings as if they were a
professional gig and then Irealised afterwards I
(19:56):
volunteered but I hadn't beenasked to volunteer.
Tania Segura (20:01):
I had actually been manipulated.
Exactly, and it's different.
Yes and if someone says this isa community gig, we're running
it for a charity, we're notpaying.
Would you like to offer a danceclass, a dance performance?
Then we have the choice to say,yes, we'd like to support this
charity or no, that's not for us, yeah, and so now, when people
(20:21):
ask for performances especiallyaround Christmas time, everyone
wants a dance class or dances orsomething fun.
They'll say this is our budgetand I'll say for that much, you
can get an hour dance instructor, but no performance.
And they'll say, oh, we'd like aperformance of 10 people.
We're like, well, they need tobe paid too, and so a 10-person
performance costs this much.
(20:42):
And they're like, oh, maybewe'll just have the instructor.
Then we're like, oh, maybewe'll just have the instructor.
Then, yeah, okay, well, as longas you know what your budget's
worth.
But if you don't say, then theydon't know either.
Amra Pajalic (20:53):
And you're also preparing them for the next time
.
Yes, and also, whenever you areoffering a premium or a
discount, you make that very,very clear.
You put actually on the invoiceum, or you know, you state yes,
10 discount, whatever you'reoffering.
Because that needs to be clear,because then if they're going
around and telling oh, we've gotthis great thing for this much
money.
No, no, no.
You've got the special makes,right, you've got the local
(21:15):
discount.
Someone else won't get that.
Tania Segura (21:18):
And we also do private dance lessons, so we
have wedding couples comingthrough.
If we don't know them, wecharge.
But If we don't know them, wecharge.
But I've never charged like myniece or my nephew for a dance
lesson, like I want to be there.
Yeah, see, we choreographedthat and you looked awesome.
Amra Pajalic (21:31):
Yeah, you know, that's the thing.
When we're helping our friends,it's a different thing.
Yes, yeah, so recently youmarked a new chapter in your
life when you were accepted as amodel by a new agency.
Tania Segura (21:49):
Now I want this story.
This is the best story I haveheard.
Listen to this, okay.
So I'm into choosing joy at themoment, going for things that I
normally wouldn't go for.
So on instagram, as I wasscrolling, a photo studio said
new, looking for a new model.
What do we need?
In a hundred words or less,what should we be looking for?
(22:11):
I talked about old women.
I talked about diversity.
I talked about representation,put my submission in.
They got back to me.
I didn't win the campaign, ohwell, we had a go.
But they said we can bring youin for a photo shoot if you'd
like and I thought, okay, whynot?
(22:32):
So the photo shoot was twohours.
They called me beforehand whatdo you want to wear?
What are you going for?
I picked out some outfits.
I talked about my outfits for along time, of what I was going
to wear.
I went in, had a great photoshoot.
Awesome studio photographer wasamazing, took me to different
things lighting, put your chinup, move your shoulder.
(22:54):
All of that styling Went backfor the viewing, which was a
little bit confronting bigscreen with all my images up
there.
What would I like to buy?
and in that moment I thoughtthese images are amazing, that's
me, but they're amazing the waythe photographers know what
(23:14):
they're doing my outfits but Ihad hair and styling done um the
lighting, the framing, andthat's where I sort of
understood that we're 3D people.
But photography is a 2D art andthere are people who know what
they're doing and there aremodels who know what they're
doing.
What shapes, what angles, whatfaces, what expression are you
(23:38):
bringing, what vulnerability areyou bringing, what power, what
control?
And so I bought those images.
I also got a few images forfree, and then the producer said
here's a list of modelingstudios.
These ones are for mature age,these are editorial, these are
for this, this and that.
Why don't you apply?
I?
(23:58):
went back and talked togirlfriends and said I don't
want to do that, I don't want tobe a model.
And then one day I thought onlya few weeks later I thought well
, if I don't ask, the answersalways know I'll apply.
I applied to one studio, whichshall not be named, who didn't
even reply, but then I appliedto this second with my images
(24:19):
and they said coming for aninterview.
I went in for an interview, hada great interview.
Later that day, or maybe thenext day, they wrote back and
offered me a 12-month contractfor commercial modelling and
casting.
So I accepted.
Amra Pajalic (24:34):
What I love about that you've kind of left this
out is you were kind of at home.
Yeah, getting a bit blah, yeah,like, uh, and then that's when
you apply yeah, so you know,this is the thing Sometimes,
these moments where it's justlike impulse, yeah, impulse, I
just want to fix your microphone.
Yes, it's just kind of tuckedin a little bit.
Okay, I'm very expressive withmy hand movements.
(24:57):
I know all about it, so I justlove that also, where it's like
and this was just an Instagramcompetition of which you do many
, many, yeah, and so you know, Ireally believe a lot in that,
where you just put things outinto the world and you don't
know what will come back.
Tania Segura (25:12):
That's right, but it's just having those
possibilities, it's thepossibilities and I thought,
well, if I didn't apply, my lifewould be the same.
Yeah, and if I applied anddidn't get it, my life would be
the same.
I'm not losing anything byapplying, but if you apply and
you get it, then the world canchange.
Well, that's the thing.
And now Jean has also yes, mybeautiful darling husband.
(25:38):
I think he was just inspired bymy story, because we sort of
have an idea.
Well, I grew up in the 90s andthere was Kate Moss and there
was Naomi Campbell and there wasClaudia Schiffer, and if you
didn't look like them, youweren't a model.
But, now the world has opened upand people of all shapes, sizes
(25:58):
, ethnicities, backgrounds, ageswant to be in front of the
camera, and people want to seethat in front of the camera.
And people want to see that infront of the camera.
And so gene went and had agreat time with a photo shoot um
, because really great imagesand then thought, well, I'll
apply to the same agency.
Amra Pajalic (26:19):
And so he applied, got an interview and now has
been offered a contract as welland the exciting thing is um,
there are a lot of gigs that arebeing offered where it's
looking for couples or pairs,yes, and so this is also an
opportunity.
Tania Segura (26:32):
Things that we can apply together.
Amra Pajalic (26:33):
Yeah, yeah, so it's sort of opening up more
doors.
Tania Segura (26:36):
I'm just really excited to see what happens.
Same.
You know like we both appliedfor something that's in the
works at the moment and we bothgot a call back to do a
self-tape.
So we both sent auditions in tosee what the next stage is.
And if we both get it great,and if one of us gets it great,
and if we don't get it, yeah, ohwell.
Well, it's just a possibility,yeah now.
Amra Pajalic (26:56):
Well, if your life just gets more and more
interesting.
You had a recent brush withfame as a guest does on sbs
insight for their 50thanniversary edition.
So again, how did this happenand what effect?
Tania Segura (27:09):
does this?
Have experience, so this is thesame story I know I love the
same story, except it wasn'tinstagram, it was facebook.
This time scroll scroll do yousee?
Do you see start?
Amra Pajalic (27:20):
applying for these things.
Tania Segura (27:21):
So facebook, um, sbs was turning 50.
This year is turning 50.
This year is turning 50 thisyear.
Insight, the program on SBS,put out a little thing.
Sbs is turning 50.
Have you turned 50 recently?
What's your story?
I?
Amra Pajalic (27:34):
turned 50 last year.
Tania Segura (27:37):
So I put a little bit about my life and mentioned
that I'd just been signed to amodelling agency.
So weeks later, a producercalled me back and said we're
gathering information aboutAustralians turning 50.
Yours looked really excitingand different.
Tell us about it.
So I talked about the samestory with the modelling agency.
(27:59):
I talked about dancing.
I talked about my husband.
I talked about my first husband, divorce, my children,
menopause.
I talked about being a highschool teacher.
It was a two-hour chat on thephone and she said great, we've
gathered lots of information,thanks for your time.
And then, about a month later,the same producer called me back
and said I've brought yourstory to the table.
(28:23):
We'd like to invite you to beon the show, which was kind of
exciting.
And I said so when was it?
When is the filming?
And they said it's during theschool holidays and it's at our
expense.
Yes, so I thought it would besilly to say no, I don't need to
take time off work, I don'tneed to put any money towards
this.
I've already got time where I'mjust hanging around the house
anyway.
(28:43):
So all expenses paid, whichmeant flight accommodation,
dinner that night, breakfast thenext morning, cab charges.
I think in two days I spent like$6 on a chai or something like
it was all expenses paid andthat was a really great
experience to be in a studio tounderstand how TV works.
(29:07):
Um, I got to listen to otherstories.
I met anthony mundy, which wasreally exciting.
You know the addition, yeah,yeah, um, and just to be part of
that experience, to see how itall feels, I also found out I'm
quite an expressive listener.
Amra Pajalic (29:24):
Yes, because she got so much air time, so much
air time and there's a littlebit where I go.
Yes, I love to cry.
Tania Segura (29:31):
She's like dabbing , dabbing gently and crying,
because my gorgeous, talenteddaughter did my makeup for me
and she said if you cry, if,like, I cry all the time at
everything.
Amra Pajalic (29:43):
she said if you cry, don't wipe because it'll
ruin the makeup, so I verycarefully dabbed away the tears
which made a dramatic moment.
I was really good so that wasgreat.
And then, after that of course,I shared it on all my socials.
Tania Segura (30:01):
I was so excited about you know this experience
that I had.
And then then, the photo studiowho started this journey, who
took those photos in the firstplace, saw my Instagram reel and
circled back and had aninterview with me.
They liked my story, which wasreally their story and spoke to
(30:24):
me about putting a campaigntogether.
I'm not sure whether it's topromote their studio or just a
campaign that they'd like to do,but it was really nice to have
that conversation with them andperhaps something will come of
it, but maybe not.
But like in dancing, like inlife, business is always
personal.
(30:44):
It's about making connectionsand maybe you'll use those
connections later for somethingas part of your business or to
grow your business.
But maybe it's just aboutmaking that connection.
Amra Pajalic (30:57):
Yeah, and I think also just joy.
I think we talk about this alot, a lot, because, you know,
we're teachers and we loveteaching.
In the moments in the classroomthey're always different, but
in terms of the institution of,you know, school and being in a
school, it's very deja vu, yes,um, and everything's planned a
(31:18):
year in advance and all of this.
And so for us, and especiallyat this point in our lives,
we're just looking for joy.
Yes, we're just looking forinteresting and new experiences,
and also, I think we are braverthan we've ever been before.
Tania Segura (31:33):
I think so because failure is just another step
closer to what you're trying toachieve, whatever that success
is.
So if someone said to you youhave to apply to a job 25 times,
but on the 26th you'll get it,you don't see those 25 as
failures, you just see it as thenext step.
(31:54):
We don't know, it's 25.
It might be 100.
It might be 1,000.
It might be a million.
You don't know but what.
It might be 100, it might be1,000, it might be a million.
You don't know.
But what if it's only two?
What if it's only six?
And so you don't see those asfailures.
You think, well, I made thatconnection, I had that
opportunity.
It wasn't for me, but when itis for me, and what is for me
will find me, and I think theother joy is you don't even
(32:15):
think about the ones that don'tsucceed anymore.
Amra Pajalic (32:17):
You know like onto the next thing.
You don't dwell so much.
Yeah, oh well, what's the nextthing?
Yeah, um, and so then, ifthings happen, they happen.
If they don't, you're like justa lot more flow to you I think
so too.
Tania Segura (32:28):
Yeah, and just go with the flow, yeah, which is
really nice.
Amra Pajalic (32:31):
yeah, because you know, after so many years of
like I'm almost trying, um, I'menjoying now where I'm like I
don't feel like I'm trying, I dothings, and it sometimes feels
like I'm almost not doing things, but I am.
I'm actually generating all ofthis.
But it's just like this is thelogical thing.
(32:52):
You just go and do this, youjust, and then whatever happens
happens.
Tania Segura (32:55):
Yeah, whatever happens.
And I think now maybe we'rereaping those rewards and making
all those connections of doingall that learning, of trialing
different things, ofexperimenting, failing although
what is failing I don't know,it's just giving it a go and it
(33:15):
didn't work.
Amra Pajalic (33:16):
Yeah, like it's not that deep no, and like I,
because as teachers we do this alot where we have this
conversation with the students,where they're lacking so much in
confidence and they're kind ofalmost paralysed by it.
Tania Segura (33:28):
Yes.
Amra Pajalic (33:29):
And so we're having to really work through
that in terms of the teachingpart, and it's just about trying
and getting there.
And you know, so much of it ismuscle memory and that's the
thing with us now at this point,where we're just trying things.
It's just muscle memory, youjust do things.
Tania Segura (33:46):
Just give it a go.
Amra Pajalic (33:47):
Just do it.
Tania Segura (33:48):
And I think there's success in repetition.
Amra Pajalic (33:52):
Yes, very much so, very much so, like this whole
podcast kind of just came to be.
And then this interview processum, I'm interviewing all of my
friends and people I know, firstbecause I need to build that up
within myself.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now, um, what are some pros andcons?
(34:15):
So just to transition like in asense we sort of talked about
it like the pros and cons abouttransitioning into midlife.
So I think we've got a questionon that.
Tania Segura (34:23):
Okay, yeah, definitely.
Less fear, yeah, less worryabout what other people think,
less fear of judgment, not soworried about the perfectionism
anymore.
I think first create it, thenyou can clean it up.
And I think you know I do thatwith choreography, I do that
with the classes, but also withlearning new things, like I'm in
(34:44):
a position of learning, um, howto do a self-tape, how to do an
audition, what it means to bein front of a camera you should
have heard her technicalquestions before we sat down.
Where would you like me to sit?
Where would you like me to look?
Amra Pajalic (34:58):
you know these are things I hadn't thought about.
I'm just like you, just sit,you plonk yourself um, I also
think midlife brings menopause.
Tania Segura (35:06):
Do you want me to talk about?
Amra Pajalic (35:07):
oh, please do that is the next question on my list
question.
Tania Segura (35:10):
So menopause, I've thought a lot about this.
I've always been very aware ofmy physical womanhood, like and
I think in that, like you know,we've had conversation about
periods and menstrual cycles,and I've had menstrual cycles
that have been painful and butI've always seen it, as this is
(35:36):
so cliche, a blessing to be awoman Only someone with her
joyous reproductive system cansay this and I think of course
there are lots of horriblethings about the way we're
treated as women and that's awhole other conversation.
But I sort of saw my menstrualcycle as an opportunity to be
(35:59):
rid of what wasn't working thatmonth.
An opportunity to be rid ofwhat wasn't working that month,
an opportunity to rage andscream and cry and physically
let go of what wasn't working inyou know, the menstrual cycle.
And I think that men sort ofhold on to that toxicity because
they don't have that menstrualcycle where they get to rage and
(36:21):
cry and say all the thingsthey've been holding on to and
and so menopause has been well.
I kind of think it's a greatplace to be.
I've had the hot flushes, I'vehad the rage.
I've had the hot flushes, I'vehad the rage, I've had, all you
know, nosebleeds and jointstiffness and Frozen shoulder.
(36:45):
Frozen shoulder and emotionsthat haven't been in my control,
and sadness and anger andindifference and all of that.
But I think as women, we get tohave menopause, we get to be
out of that mothering maternalcycle and I think there's still
(37:05):
room to create.
But there's something aboutleaving the maiden and embracing
the crone.
Amra Pajalic (37:12):
Yes, I love that actually yeah, and I don't mean
chrome like witchy hag which Ikind of like I do kind of like
we get to be smart beasts if wewant yes, and that that's the
thing you'd get to the point.
You just don't care, but I alsothink.
Tania Segura (37:27):
With the chrome comes the oracle, the sage, the
wise woman, the mentor, andwe're not in this veil of
estrogen, of producing, and oncethat veil drops, we get to own
ourselves a little more.
We're not about keeping thefamily, creating the family, um,
(37:50):
because with that there'salways a little bit of
self-sacrifice.
Some compromise, yes, um,keeping the unit together,
putting yourself.
Second put not even second, noteven on a list you know, write
a list of all the people youlove.
When do you get to write yourname on it?
Yeah, um, and I think there'ssomething in you know.
(38:11):
I know I don't mean beingselfish, but I know that there's
a little bit of every day.
If you can make someone's lifebetter, that's great, but what
if, some days, it's your life?
Amra Pajalic (38:24):
Yes, and that's what I'm enjoying putting myself
first, actually listening to myvoice, listening to what I want
.
There's a joke in my house I'ma bit of a narcissist, I'm
turning into a bit of anarcissist and I'm like yep,
love it, I want it.
Tania Segura (38:40):
Yeah, I think we should reclaim a little bit of
that and I think in menopausethat's the time, yes, and you
know, it can be little thingslike what do you want for dinner
tonight?
I don't mind you cook, or itcan be.
I really feel like chicken,like it's such a little shift,
yes.
And then there are big things.
You know.
(39:00):
There are women who aredivorcing during this time.
Yes, there are women who aremaking career changes.
There are women who are sadlybecoming homeless because
everything is upside down.
And I think it's aboutunderstanding, controlling and
directing where it all happens.
Amra Pajalic (39:21):
Yes, if you can, and I mean for me.
I am on hormone replacementtherapy For me.
I had to because things gotreally bad.
I know you were front andcentre for that, like you know,
counselling me through on adaily basis and I was this close
to divorce.
Tania Segura (39:41):
But sometimes, like you know, you're crazy
right, like sometimes thoseconversations are like this is
not right Just embrace the crazyLike yep, but things are better
now and now I can find the joyin it.
Amra Pajalic (39:56):
But there are a lot of women in my position who
do need the hormone replacementtherapy, who do need um the the
support and the pharmaceuticalsupport um in order definitely,
and then there are women likeyou who don't.
Um, I'm so happy for you, um,but yeah, like it's, it's a very
(40:16):
and there's also a correlationbetween you always had great
things with your reproductivesystem.
Tania Segura (40:22):
Yes, emily felt pregnant.
Amra Pajalic (40:24):
Yes, the regular cycle, the nice light cycle, and
then people like me who haddifficulty getting pregnant.
My cycle was always, you know,off very heavy.
Tania Segura (40:36):
I think I had endometriosisosis, so always a
lot going on and I think that'srecognizing that I have been
very blessed in that area andI'm aware of where my body is,
but it means that you've alwaysalso been aware of where your
body is and and how to managecontrol.
Amra Pajalic (40:55):
Be aware of that so it's not about myself was
better than yours no, but it'salso about the fact that you do
need to prepare, Like you doneed to sort of think about how
has your body dealt with thesechanges and these transitions,
and for me they were always hardand always brutal.
Yes, and so you know, I didseek help.
Tania Segura (41:14):
I was very fortunate that at this time
there is a recognition of youknow, being able to use hormone
replacement therapy that that atthis time there is a
recognition of you know beingable to use hormone replacement
therapy, that a lot of the stuffthat was about it has been
debunked completely Well.
Amra Pajalic (41:25):
A lot of the studies were old, they are and
they were actually.
Like you know, they are not thehormones that are being used
now, so there was a lot ofmisinformation.
A lot of women suffered, so I'mvery thankful to be at this
time where I'm getting thebenefit of that and I think it's
our generation.
Tania Segura (41:41):
Yes, we're not a voiceless generation.
Amra Pajalic (41:44):
And we are not accepting it as because there's
so much misogyny in medicine, sowe're not accepting it.
Tania Segura (41:48):
No.
Amra Pajalic (41:49):
We're not going.
No, that's fine.
Accept the pain, it is what itis.
Yeah, it's like.
No, we deserve a good qualityof life.
We deserve a good third act.
Yes, you know, because this isthe thing.
This is the time for the thirdact and this is the time to
still be fabulous.
Tania Segura (42:03):
Yes, and to do fabulous things.
And you don't have to be amaiden, you can be a crone.
Amra Pajalic (42:07):
Yes, and to be a fabulous crone, yes, thank you,
yes, in the swamp.
So just any last words on thepower of the arts for well-being
and joy oh well, I think peopletake them for granted.
Tania Segura (42:23):
Like we talked a little bit about that dark
lockdown two years people turnedto music, books, film, tv,
creating art.
Um, anyone who was on reels ortiktok at the time was a dancer
and was like, yes, this is whatwe should be doing.
You don't need a degree to havefun, to choose joy.
(42:46):
You can start painting, you canstart writing, you can do all
that.
So it wasn't like in the darktimes, but also when people want
to celebrate, let's go see amovie.
I read a really great book.
Do you want to do this?
Come dancing, pick up aninstrument, make music, and we
should be celebrating that thearts are here.
(43:08):
I think it's what makes ushuman.
I think when you have a littlebit of spare time and you don't
need to work an extra shift, andyou don't need to cook a meal
and you don't need to, peoplethen turn to what if I made
something?
Or what if I went back andpicked up the knitting needles?
Or what if I?
And so I think it would belovely if ai eventually took all
(43:33):
our jobs and we could just play.
We could play and thegovernment would look after us
and give us shelter and food andall the things we needed.
Amra Pajalic (43:42):
Well, yeah, there is more.
There are some places in in theworld now where they are
offering a living wage becausethey literally are not enough
jobs wow people right.
So for me it's fantasy, but Ialso grew up with sarah connor,
so I'm a little bit wary of itI'm actually, um, I mean, that's
the thing also like I, thistime of life and this ability to
(44:05):
sort of try things.
It's also about play.
It's also about just doingthings for the fun and for the
joy, and just almost it'sirrelevant the result, it's just
the actual process.
Yes, like just just trying andhaving fun and just doing
something different and alsolearning new skills.
I'm loving learning newsoftware packages and learning
(44:28):
new things Me too.
Tania Segura (44:30):
Yeah, the learning is exciting because it's new.
I'm sure it does somethingamazing to the brain the
learning yeah.
As does dancing.
Everyone should be dancing allday, every day, at least
starting the day well, I do I domy dancing, uh, in my bedroom.
Amra Pajalic (44:47):
Yes, great, I do, and it doesn't need to be
monetized like art.
Tania Segura (44:52):
Creating and play should be something we do
because we're human.
Amra Pajalic (44:56):
Yes, yeah, I mean there is joy when you do get
paid.
Yes, but if you're good at it,if you could, yeah, but it's
just also um, you're just justhaving that play, yeah for sure.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on my podcast thank you
transitioning into interviews,so I will be interviewing
different people, interestingpeople, all about joy, life,
(45:18):
midlife life, lessons and thankyou so much, tanya.
Thank you beautiful friend, forcoming on and for also being so
fabulous and so interesting.
Thank you.
So much to talk about.
Thank you so much.
Join us next time.
Thank you for tuning in toAmra's Armchair Anecdotes.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
(45:40):
follow for more insights,stories and inspiration From my
armchair to yours.
Remember every story beginswith a single word.
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