Early Menopause, Real Talk: A conversation with Antoinette about POI

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We share Antoinette’s story of premature ovarian insufficiency at 41, the harm of being dismissed, and the relief and clarity that came with HRT. We open up about rage, insomnia, brain fog, grief over lost choice, and how to advocate for better care at home, work, and in the clinic.

• early signs ignored and misattributed to stress
• navigating GP knowledge gaps and delayed referrals
• emotional crash, rage, intrusive thoughts, loss of empathy
• cognitive fog, sleep loss, night sweats, skin changes
• POI realities, fertility grief, and identity repair
• evidence‑based HRT as mechanism‑level treatment
• cardiometabolic and bone health risks and screening
• boundaries, relationships, and clearing energy drains
• workplace adjustments and policy awareness
• how to find menopause‑literate clinicians and resources

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Welcome to Amra’s Armchair Anecdotes! I’m Amra Pajalić—writer, teacher, and storyteller. Pull up a chair, and let’s dive into stories about writing, life, and lessons learned—sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours.

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Episode Transcript

Amra Pajalic (00:00):
Welcome to Amherra's Armchair Anecdotes.
I'm Amrapa Lich, writer,teacher, and storyteller.
Pull up a chair and let's diveinto stories about writing,
life, and lessons learned,sharing wisdom from my armchair
to yours.
You can find the episode shownotes, your free episode

(00:22):
handouts, and my how-to guidesat amrage.com slash podcast.
And now it's time to dive in.
So today I'm speaking withAntoinette, a single mum, an
admin worker, and someone whowas thrown into full menopause
at just 41.
So while raising two young kidson her own, she suddenly found

(00:45):
herself dealing with hotflushes, insomnia, brain fog,
and the emotional crash ofpremature ovarian insufficiency.
Her story is raw, honest, andfar too common, even though
hardly anyone talks about it.
So Antoinette is here to sharewhat it's really like when your
hormones implode years tooearly, and life doesn't give you

(01:05):
a moment to breathe.
Welcome, Antoinette.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
So you're here because we'vewe've had, we've really bonded
over our menopause journeys andthe things that our bodies have
done and what we've gonethrough.
Yeah.
And so this kind of came aboutas we were talking and we were
like, we want more women to knowabout these things because you

(01:27):
went through premature aviarianinsufficiency.
Yeah.
I've gone through psychosis inmenopause.
And we had a lot of the similarum symptoms in terms of our
body.
We did.
Yeah.
And then also like just kind oftry and find people to help us
and try and find that support.

Antoinette (01:45):
Yeah, it's amazing how I felt like I was going
through something, but I didn'tknow who to turn to.
And you and a few others, we wesort of just found each other
and we were all going through itat the same time.

Amra Pajalic (02:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm finding now, that most of
the support and help that I'mgetting has been through talking
to other women going throughthe same thing, and where we are
sort of helping support and youknow, check this out, try this,
look at this.
Um, but thankfully that thereis a little bit more now of
things coming out in terms ofthe media and and stories being

(02:23):
shared.
Yeah.
So that is helpful.
So I just wanted to start withum the moment when you realised
something wasn't right with yourbody.

Antoinette (02:31):
Yeah, look, I think I started to feel something was
off when I was about 39 yearsold.
Um, my periods were just allover the place.
Um, one month, really heavybleeding, really painful
periods.
The next month, hardly anybleeding at all.
Cycle was just inconsistent,all over the place.
And I thought maybe I shouldjust go and get checked out.

(02:54):
And I asked myself thequestion: could this be the
start of perimenopause ormenopause?
Um, and I went to see my GP.
Um, I asked her that question,and of course, no, you're too
young, you're only 39, notpossible.

(03:14):
We'll just run some tests, youknow, we'll do some blood tests,
we'll send you off for a aninternal scan, and we'll have a
look at the results.
And of course, everything cameback normal, and I was told to
just it's okay, get on with it.
There could just be a littlebit of stress, you're fine.
Um, but I knew deep down thatsomething was changing within

(03:40):
me, um, but I just wasn't beingheard.

Amra Pajalic (03:43):
No, and that's the thing that I'm I'm sort of
discovering.
A lot of GPs do not have enoughtraining in menopause, which is
shocking when you look at 50%of the population and all of us
are going to go through it.
Yeah.
Um, so they don't really havetraining, they don't really know
about it, they don't know thesymptoms.
And then even in terms of thetesting that they do, yeah.
How I mean, like even if theydo test your hormones, the only

(04:06):
way they're going to pick it upexactly is if your hormones if
you go into a hot flush in thatmoment anyway, or not.
So um, yeah, there is there isa lot of that, and and there's a
lot of us that were talkingabout that when we were like,
because I went to my um GP also,who I've been to for I don't
know, 17 years.
Yeah.
Um, and it's like, oh, I'lljust take some supplements.
Yeah.
And I'm like, um, yeah, but um,so what did you think?

Antoinette (04:32):
Did she be blaming stress and you were you were
thinking?
I felt like maybe my GP wasgaslighting me a little because
yeah, she would say things like,you know, you're a you're a
mum, you've got two kids, you'reworking, you're balancing a
lot, it just it's just stress.
And she even said to me, Maybetry some primrose oil, that
could help.
And I thought that to me feltlike, you know, when you've got

(04:56):
a virus and you go to the doctorand they say, just take some
panodol, you'll be fine.
Yes.
I just felt dismissed.
Yeah.
And um, you know, thiscontinued.
Uh, these uh I was actuallygetting more and more symptoms
as time went on.
I started with hot flushes, Ibecame really um, I felt like I
was losing my resilience.

(05:17):
Oh my god.
Like my emotional resiliencewasn't there anymore.
And that's when I said tomyself, something is not right.
I just know I'm not myself.
And I had to keep going backuntil she finally said, okay,
okay, we'll run some more tests.
So you had to persist with thesame doctor.
I had to persist with the samedoctor.

(05:39):
And then one day, um, yeah, Iwas really fighting for myself
and advocating for myself withmy GP by being seen for years.
And she said, Okay, we'll runsome tests.
We'll deeper look into yourhormones.
Um, and when we got the resultsback, she looked at me and
said, I owe you an apology.

(06:01):
Wow.
Yeah, so powerful.
Yep, I owe you an apology.
You were right.
Um, she had a look at my levelsand she said to me, You
actually are showing signs ofsomeone who's post-menopausal,
and I don't know what to dohere.
Oh, yes.
And that was really confrontingfor me.
Yes.
Um that's not what I wasexpecting at all.

(06:22):
Yes.
I thought maybe it's the startof perimenopause, but I was
showing signs of post-menopause.
Yes.
And she said, I need to referyou on.

Amra Pajalic (06:32):
Yeah.

Antoinette (06:32):
And so what was the treatment of the like?
What what what was the journey?
So she um did give me areferral to see a gynecologist,
but I felt that I wanted tospeak to someone who may just
know a little bit more aboutwomen's health and um

(06:53):
postmenopausal symptoms becauseI didn't know what the hell that
meant for me.

Amra Pajalic (06:59):
No, because like that's the other thing.
We don't really like, you know,we we we now know that
perimenopause is as our ovaries.
So we're failing and we'relosing our estrogen, and we're
going through all thesefluctuations.
Yeah.
Then eventually all theestrogen goes, your body settles
down, yeah, and then you're inpost-menopause, and that
perimenopause might last 10years.
Correct, you know, and so nowwe know all of these things.

(07:22):
Um, but when I first startedgoing through it, I didn't even
have the words for what was it.
Yeah.
And like I remember you and I,we were talking about all of the
same symptoms.
Our skin was going dry, we wereso uncomfortable, our hair,
like we're, you know, losing.
Oh my gosh.
But the thing that reallyconcerned me is when we were
talking about our moods, likethe way we felt so great, like

(07:45):
there was no joy in life at all.
I thought I had a mentalillness.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I I don't knowabout you, but I think you're
sort of similar to me.
We're both quite positive andwe always look, you know, we're
optimists.
We're upbeat people.
Yes.
We always look for the for thegood.
Uh if we're having bad moments,we vent and we we have those

(08:06):
moments, but we just kind of tryand move forward as much as
possible.
And also as mothers, we haveto.

Antoinette (08:13):
Yes.

Amra Pajalic (08:13):
You know, we really don't have a choice.
Yeah.
And with you, you've got muchyounger kids.
But we were talking about thefact that we were so dark and
that lack of resilience.
Yeah, it is so hard when youare, we're juggling all these
hats.
We're juggling the mother hat,the worker hat, the, you know,
um, if we've got other roles inour families and you know, so

(08:37):
much.
And then we always have to bethe strong ones.
Yeah.
We always have to be the s theones who find solutions, who
maintain emotional equilibrium,who set the temperature in the
household.
And I became a psycho.
Oh yeah, psycho.
Like one day my daughter wassinging, and I had to send her

(09:01):
out of the room, and it took mean hour to calm down from my
rage.
Oh, yeah.
Even though there was a part ofmy brain going, This is psycho,
she is happy.
Your daughter is happy.
How wonderful is that?
Yes.
And she's expressing it bysinging in that moment, but I
was so irritable.

(09:21):
Oh, so irritable.

Antoinette (09:24):
By that feeling.

Amra Pajalic (09:25):
Because I I went to uh a GP and I said, um,
because I found someone atAustralasian Society of
Metaphors.
Me too.
Yes, and that's the otherthing.
We don't know these things.
We don't know these things.
We don't know these things.
So this is where where ourlittle coven helped us, where we
were talking to each other, andwe're like, there's this
Australasian society ofmenopause where you can find a
list of GPs who are trainingthemselves and learning about

(09:47):
menopause, and you go see them,and as soon as you see them,
they start you on the journey tosort of help you.
But you know, like we're we'rebattling with people who don't
know.
And I don't know how you were,but I I hated myself.

Antoinette (10:04):
I hated myself too.
I just thought, who am I?
Yes, who's this person I'mbecoming?
Why am I so miserable andirritable and I hate life?
I hate everyone.
I don't want anyone around me.
I know that's that hatred ofeveryone.

Amra Pajalic (10:21):
Yes.
And everyone, and like Iremember at work, um, everyone
was irritating me, and then theyI received an email from a
coworker who is the gentlest andsweetest person you could ever
meet in your life.
And he sent an email, and theemail was like very benign,
very, but he just expressed anopinion and I did not like that

(10:43):
opinion.
Yeah, I lost, and I went, Ithink there's something wrong
with me.
Yeah.
Because if I am feeling thisabout every single person, but
even these lovely people that Ican see are lovely people, I
think it's me.

Antoinette (11:00):
That's that I think that is so common.
We just get to this point wherewe realize yeah, we start to
look within and go, okay, uhwe're the problem here.
Like what what do we need to donow to get the support and get
the help that we need?
Yeah.
To get back to the people weare.

Amra Pajalic (11:20):
The people we are, because it feels like you go
into this darkness.
And the other thing that a lotof people don't realize is, you
know, our um age group of women,high societ uh, high suicide
rates.
And I had a friend who gotsuicidal um and had a breakdown
and was like, you need to helpme right now um and give me some

(11:41):
treatment.
So, you know, like so how longdid it take you?
Like that whole journey withyour GP, how long did it take?
It took a good nearly twoyears.

Antoinette (11:50):
Oh yeah, two years on the city.
I took two years because, likeI said, she kept dismissing me,
she kept blaming stresslifestyle.
Uh, try this supplement, trythat supplement.
No, you're too young, you'retoo young, you're too young.
I heard that so many times.
And then when I finally went inat 41 years old and said, I am

(12:13):
begging you to please runfurther tests because I know
something is not right.
I it was explaining I had hotflushes, I had insomnia, I had
anxiety, I hated my life, Ihated everyone around me.
I couldn't even look after mychildren the way I wanted to
because I was so snappy andirritable.

(12:34):
Yeah, that's what really got tome.
That's what got to me too.

Amra Pajalic (12:37):
Yeah.
Because when we when we look atthe way we're treating our
children, yeah, and we'resupposed to be their safe place,
it's like, okay, this is reallynot good.
This is not good.
That's right.
And I feel so horrible as aperson where you're like, how
could I how could I be doingthis to my own kids?

Antoinette (12:50):
Yeah.
But you can't help it.
I know.
It's really something you justcan't control.
And that's one thing I've alsofound for me is that I'm
normally very calm andregulated.
I'm very good at regulating myemotions, but I just couldn't
during that time.

Amra Pajalic (13:05):
Well, I actually realized because for me, I I
went into psychosis and actuallythought I was being haunted by
a ghost, which I do believe inghosts, so you know, I still
might be being haunted by aghost, but the problem was that
every time I closed my eyes,there was like an apparition
coming at me.
And it got to a point whereevery time I slept, I was just
screaming and screaming andscreaming.

(13:27):
That's and so I'm on hormone ofplasma therapy, but I am also
on anti-psychotics.
Yeah.
And so when I got put onanti-psychotics because of the
history of bipolar and myfamily, and I've had uh insomnia
in the past so badly that Ihave had psychosis previously.
In my twenties, um, I didn'tsleep for like months, and I

(13:48):
thought there was a man livingin the ceiling of our house.
And my husband had to go get auh a ladder and climb up and
prove to me through logic andreasoning uh that there was no
one living in the ceiling.
Yeah, in that state.
Yeah, yes.
So things got really bad.
But when I went onto theanti-psychotics, I actually
realized that um rage has been abig part of my life.

(14:10):
And then as I went into um intoperimenopause, that it just
exploded.
And then when when because thisit it helps me sleep, but it
also just gives me that, youknow, and and the woman almost
just like calming.
Yeah, and so I feel like I amthe best version of myself I've

(14:31):
ever been, where I just feel somuch more like you know how you
have a dream of who you want tobe, and so I always wanted to be
more of a karma person.
Someone who could actuallyregulate a little bit, not say
the first thing that pops intomy mouth.
And I'm like, oh, I'm actuallythat person now, but I could not
get there without the pharmaceupharmaceuticals.
I know.

(14:51):
It was not an epiphany, it ispharmaceuticals because biology
betrayed us.

Antoinette (14:57):
It betrayed us absolutely so much.
Um, you know, I think for metoo, one thing I really
struggled with is because it didhappen to me a lot younger than
it does for most women.
Yes, because I'm 48.
Yeah, I'm 41.
And I felt robbed of the yearsI thought I had ahead of me

(15:18):
before I had to worry about anyof this.
Yes.
And that's been really hard forme to get my head around.

Amra Pajalic (15:23):
Yeah, because for me, I'm because I'm 48 and I'm
looking at 50, I'm like, I'mhappy to be in this stage.
Um, and you know, I'm like II'm okay with it.
And yeah, but it it I did gothrough in my early 40s, I went
through a lot of grief as Irealized that I wasn't going to
have any more children.

(15:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, even though like I wasvery happy because I did have a
second pregnancy but didn'tsucceed.
But then I did go through a lotof grief where I was like,
that's it, that is being cutoff.
And you didn't even have thewarning.

Antoinette (15:57):
No, it was just that's it.
That is one thing I wanted tosay today, too, is that you
know, this can just happen toyou without warning.
Your body does not ask you forpermission for this to happen.
And that was really mentallychallenging for me.
And I remember the beautifuldoctor that I am seeing now who

(16:18):
has put me on HRT and helped meget through this really
difficult time.
Um, when she diagnosed me withPOI, she said to me, Um, you
know, are you are you married?
And I said, Look, I amseparated.
She said, So does that mean youare done having children?

(16:39):
And I said, Are you telling methat I won't be able to?
She said, Yeah, that's what I'mtelling you.
And it's not that I wanted morechildren, but having that taken
away from you.
Yes, when it doesn't feel likeyour choice.
When it doesn't feel like yourchoice is so hard.
And you have to grieve thatprocess.
Yes, yeah.

Amra Pajalic (16:59):
Because I I also felt like that choice was thrust
onto me because of financialcircumstances and other things.
Um, also with the fact that mypregnancies, I was very ill from
them.

Antoinette (17:14):
Yeah.

Amra Pajalic (17:14):
And so I realized that um I can't physically put
my body through that again.
Yeah.
Um, but the grief, because it'slike, yeah, you're you're
having to accept what's put ontoyou rather than be making that
decision for yourself.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
My throat has just gone rhythmyand break.

(17:39):
I'm gonna check the time, 1747,and come here and because this
is the thing that does this.
Of course, because it's a lotof talking.
Well, I've been doing a lot oftalking.

Antoinette (17:50):
I never stopped talking.

Amra Pajalic (17:51):
I talk about it.
Before you came, I was talkingto um Tanya for 45 months.
I love that.
That was my warm-up.
All right, I think we shalllaunch back into it.
So, um, I think we I thinkwe've actually covered a lot.

(18:12):
Oh, yeah, I think also one ofthe symptoms that I sort of
wanted to talk about that we'vetouched on, so you know, I think
a lot of people know about thehot flushes and the fact that
you know your body like I wouldgo into a rage.
Oh my god.
Yeah, like it actually sendsyou into a complete and utter
rage.

Antoinette (18:30):
The flushes?
Yes, they're just intense.
Like I've never experiencedanything like that.
I remember feeling all thisheat just rising from the bottom
all the way up, and I wouldhave to strip off my clothes.
I was sweating.
Yes, and I thought, what thehell is happening?
Yeah, it's intense.

Amra Pajalic (18:50):
Yeah, because I remember having a hot flush in
the classroom with students, ohmy gosh, and I actually kind of
blacked out in a rage, and Ijust remember the next day um
one of my lovely students lookedat me with his big blue eyes
and said, Miss Baileage, pleasedon't be angry with us the way

(19:14):
you were yesterday.
Oh, and I went, I'm a monster,I'm a monster, like just um, and
I had to change rooms becausethat was in the library where
the heating was turned up, and Iwas like, nah, I I need to be
cool.
Um, but the fascinating thingis as soon as I started the
hormone replacement therapy, soyou know I do the estradiol
gels, yeah, and theprogesterone, I've got implin

(19:37):
on, so I don't have to takeprogesterone.
Do you take the progesterone?
I take the tablet, yep.
Yeah.

Antoinette (19:41):
As soon as I started that, gone.
Oh, gone.
One thing we need to talk aboutis how amazing is HR taking?
I know.
Because I felt like a brand newwoman.
Yes.
And probably day four of takingit.
Yes.
It works so quickly.
It works so quickly, it'sincredible.

Amra Pajalic (20:02):
And one of the frustrating things is so now um,
you know, there's been walkingback because it was linked to
breast cancer, but that wasactually the progesterone that
was being prescribed at thetime.
And so a whole generation ofwomen have been screwed over
when they haven't gotten accessto it.
Oh, I'm so sad for them.
I know, I know, because now allof us, like so many women I
know, are are using it.

(20:24):
And, you know, all of thesesymptoms that we had, so even
the brain fog, yeah, you know,as your estrogen goes down, the
receptors in your brain are notoperating as well.
And your cognitive, there's alike a cognitive decline.

Antoinette (20:39):
Absolutely.

Amra Pajalic (20:40):
Where you know, you have the the word farts and
you the thinking is really hard.
Like I just remember likethinking on a day-to-day basis
was so hard, and even makingdecisions of what am I gonna
order?
Yeah, am I gonna do this or amI gonna do that?
Like, just it was really,really hard.
It is, and then for me, I alsohad sexual dysfunction where

(21:05):
everything just went lights out.

Antoinette (21:07):
Oh my body stopped working.
There's no desire, no.
There's no yeah, I felt empty.
Yes, yeah, I felt empty.

Amra Pajalic (21:16):
But it's also like you lose desire, but you also
lose joy, you lose empathy.
Yeah, like I I turned into afull sociopath.

Antoinette (21:26):
I actually remember saying this to someone, I can't
remember who it was, but I thinksomeone might have had a baby
in the family.
And normally news like thatwould bring you some joy.
Oh my god, that's amazing.
And I remember just going,yeah.
And I thought, that's notnormally how I would react to
that news.
No, no, you know, I just had noempathy.

Amra Pajalic (21:50):
No.
I I I mean, I I actually wentthrough a period of repulsion by
babies.
Me too.
Yeah, me too.
To be honest, it's still alittle bit there, but it was so
bad that if I saw a baby, Ithink I still do it to be
honest, hide.
I can't look at it.
It looks so like frail andfragile and so like, and um, I

(22:14):
just start thinking about I getthese, oh that's the other
thing, the intrusive thoughtswhere your brain just does these
really weird things.
And so I would get theseintrusive thoughts where I would
just imagine the baby fallingand smashing.
Oh, and just like, and so I Ihave to run away and hide
because then I'm also like, ifthis poor woman who is, you
know, a new mother who has justhad a baby looks at me and sees

(22:38):
this revulsion on my face, thatis a horrible thing to do to
someone.
Yeah, so I have to hide.
I have to like hide.

Antoinette (22:46):
At least you're aware of it though.
Yeah, you can manage it.

Amra Pajalic (22:49):
Yeah, it's a bit better now, yeah.
But oh my gosh, at one point,and then like the full sociopath
where I just didn't feelanything for anyone.

Antoinette (23:00):
I felt that too, and that was a big warning sign for
me that something was offbecause I feel everything.
I'm a very emotional,empathetic person.
Yes, and I just lost that,yeah.
Lost that part of me.

Amra Pajalic (23:13):
And and you just kind of you feel yourself
transforming, and like Iactually felt like I was turning
into a monster.
And you know, even like myhusband, I mean, I've been
married for 28 years, we havebeen through a lot.
And so, you know, you are atthis stage of your marriage
where um less patience forcertain things.
But I oh my gosh, I would justgo at him and he would be

(23:37):
sitting there and just crying,and just literally crying.
And I would just keep justpouring lava and then I would be
like, should I stop?
He's like if if it helps you,and and I would be like, Oh,
okay, but I didn't care.
Yeah, I like you know, anyother normal human being would

(24:00):
be like, I have reduced mypartner two tears.
Yeah, I think it's time tomanage some boundaries.
Yeah, time to take a beat.
Yeah, I think I think we'vegone a bit too far there.
Nope.
Nope.
I was I was ready to just go inagain.
Um, so yeah, there's a lot ofthat negativity, and then as
soon as the hormone replacementtherapy, oh my gosh, tell me

(24:23):
about the transformation withyou.

Antoinette (24:25):
I remember this so vividly, I will never forget
this day of my life.
This beautiful doctor that I'vebeen seeing said, there's no
question about it, you areeligible for HRT.
Um, so let's begin thetreatment.
Um, she said, This is gonnamake a world of difference for
you.
And honestly, at that point, Ididn't believe anything was

(24:45):
gonna work.
I thought, this is it, this ismy life, I'm just gonna be
miserable forever, and I have todeal with it.
But I remember day four.
I woke up and I was feelingjoy.
Yes, just to be alive, just tosee my children running around

(25:06):
the house.
Yes, I actually put on thisamazing colorful dress that I've
never worn for a very long timebecause I wanted to wear color.
I felt bright.
Yes, life felt brighter.
There was a buzz within me,like I was excited to just begin
the day.

Amra Pajalic (25:24):
Yeah.

Antoinette (25:25):
And I said, okay, this is what everyone's been
talking about.
This joy is coming back.
Yes.

Amra Pajalic (25:33):
I remember we were talking to each other because
you were like, because we weactually talked about the fact
that we felt so gray.
Yeah.
We were feeling so gray.
Yeah.
And just completely likedisconnected from everything.
And then we were like, I Idon't feel grey anymore.
No.
And then that joy and thatfeeling came back.

(25:54):
Yes.
Feeling like who we were,feeling like who we were meant
to be, the patience, theresilience, oh yeah, the calm.

Antoinette (26:03):
The calm.
Oh, the calm.
The calm.
Because I hadn't felt that calmin such a long time.
Yes.
I felt balanced.
Yes.
I felt serene.
I felt feminine.

Amra Pajalic (26:18):
Yeah.
I felt feminine again.
Because when you feel like,because like for me with the
skin and the itchiness, yeah,and then losing the libido and
then the grey, um yeah, I didn'tfeel good in my body.
I just constantly feltuncomfortable.
And um just being who I am justfelt really uncomfortable.

(26:40):
And then as the skin just cameback, like it started feeling
soft.
It started feeling feminine.
Yeah, yeah, because I'm gettingall these red scabs.
Yeah.
Like, and and itchiness, andand like I was so itchy, I could
not stop scratching, like myback was bloody.
I I had like scratch markseverywhere.

(27:01):
Yeah, it was horrible.
Um, and then just feeling that,like, but what I'm feeling now,
and I'm wondering if you'refeeling the same, you feel that
serenity and that joy, theresilience is bad, but also zero
F stick in.

Antoinette (27:20):
I was gonna say, it's so joyful.
I was gonna say that is one, Iguess, symptom that comes with
this.
That you know, it's a positivebecause you do get to a place
where you have this clarity.
Yes.
And you found clarity aroundpeople, around situations,
circumstances, and you you're inlike an unbothered energy.

(27:44):
Yes.
But you can't.
Yeah.

Amra Pajalic (27:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I I used to um becauseI couldn't look, I would I would
say everything, I would talkand I mean I'm still like I
share a lot, and I don't feelembarrassed about that.
Yeah, it's who I am, and I findthat it serves me well because
I have amazing connections withpeople, because I am able to

(28:07):
share, and also I'm able to bein the moment with people.
Yeah.
Especially with trauma.
Like, you know, a lot of peopleare not good with trauma.
I can I can be in the momentwith people.
But I I used to spend so muchtime thinking about what I said
and what I did, and I'membarrassed about that.
And oh God, you're so stupid.
Why did you say that?

(28:27):
Why did you do that?
It's so stressful.
It's so stressful.
Yeah, it's so stressful, andthat's gone.
Yeah.
And it's just amazing thesilence in my brain, and now I'm
able to fill it with so manymore positive things because
that space that was there toconstantly like, but what about
this?
But what about that?

(28:48):
And you didn't do this, youdidn't do that, that's gone.
Yeah.
And also um just that clarityaround people where you're like,
because I, you know, grew upwith mama who had bipolar.
And so I meet mentally illpeople are very familiar to me.
Yeah.
And so I had a lot of people inmy life who were very chaotic,
who were very, you know, um, alot of emotions, a lot, a lot

(29:11):
going on.
And that felt very familiar.
But the problem is when you arein in that you attract it.
Yeah, you're in you're justconstant, it's constant drama.
Constant drama and constantdrama.
Yeah.
And now I'm just at the otherend of it, I'm like, I want
people who give me calm, whouplift me.
Yes.
If it doesn't serve me, I'm notgoing there.

(29:34):
And I'm also able to recognizewhen I'm sort of starting to
fall for the charmingpsychopaths again and starting
to fall into that pattern andgo, no, step back, step back.

Antoinette (29:48):
So really setting those boundaries for yourself,
protect protecting ourselves.
I think we become more selfprotective.

Amra Pajalic (29:53):
Yes, and sort of thinking our time is worth it.
Yeah.
We don't have that much time.
Correct.
How much time do we have?
What are we doing with it?
But it is precious and we wantto spend it with time with
people that really give us thatjoy and those good experiences.
Yeah.
And obviously, we're stillthere for our friends who are
going through difficult times.
Of course.
Because, you know, we know thateveryone does.

(30:14):
Yes.
But we're just not puttingourselves in the path of, you
know, victims, childlingpsychopaths, um, energy
vampires.
Energy vampires.
Exactly.

Antoinette (30:25):
Energy vampires is a big one.
Energy vampires.
And you know, I think I didn'tbefore all of this happened to
me, I didn't recognize energyvampires.
Yes.
And I would give a lot of mytime to the wrong people.
Yes.
And now I see it so clearly.

Amra Pajalic (30:41):
Yeah.
And my definition of energyvampires are those people who
just take and take and take,never ask you who you are.
No.
Never check in with you.
Um, you're just the audience.
Yeah.
And then as soon as they'redone, they move on, and you're
just kind of left depleted.
And like, I just put in a lotof energy into supporting you,

(31:03):
into trying to have that empathyfor you.
And you have just been like,oh, a new audience now.

Antoinette (31:09):
They basically just used us for emotional support.
Yeah.
Gotten what they wantedemotionally.
And then, okay, see ya.

Amra Pajalic (31:16):
Yeah.
And I'm actually like nowdeveloping really good
strategies where I had asituation recently where I was
having a conversation withsomeone who falls into a little
bit of these categories.
And um I I gave them themoment, I listened, I responded,
and then as I left, they werelike, oh, we'll we'll do this.

(31:38):
And I went, uh-huh, uh-huh.
But I left and I went, no,because I'm like, that is as
much patience and energy as Iwant to put into this situation.
I'm not going to open the doorto that in my life because I've
finally cleaned that out.
You know, um, and so thesethese are the things that

(32:00):
really, really matter.
Yeah.
Um, so I just I think we Ithink we've covered a lot of the
things that I've sort of wantedto talk about, but I just also
wanted to really talk more aboutthe medical treatment.
Um and, you know, the fact thatso many women strong.
But we also had conversationswith women, like there were
there were a lot of things thatwe didn't know about.

(32:22):
Like, you know, we were talkingto people who have done medical
marijuana because of umincredible depression, and you
know, but also a lot of thesepeople, then when they started
the hormone replacement therapy,they realized that was the that
was the answer.
That was the answer.
Yeah that was what it was.
And you know, like a lot ofpeople are like, oh, uh, it's

(32:45):
not natural, and it actually is.
It is natural.

Antoinette (32:48):
Yeah, well, what are your thoughts on that?
My thoughts are that um hormonereplacement therapy is yeah,
like we said, it is natural.
Yes, it's it's giving us backthe estrogen.
It's back the estrogen that wenaturally will produce.
Yes, that we no longer can.
Yes.
Um, and that is the answer toall these problems.

Amra Pajalic (33:10):
It really is.
Yeah.
Because, you know, apart fromthe psychosis and the
antipsychotic, the um estradiol,yeah, it's it's taking care of
all of my issues.
Yes.
And I am now at the point, Iremember being sick, I had um an
infection, and as you do whenyou're that tired and you don't

(33:31):
have a shower and routines fallout.
And so for me, I put it on uhas soon as I step out of the
shower.
And so I I didn't put it on fortwo days.
And I started getting grisly.
So you knew straight away?
I did it, but my husband waslike, Have you been using your
hormone replacement therapy?
I had to think and I went, Ohno, but actually, I haven't put

(33:54):
it on for two days.
Go upstairs.
Go do it right now.
Do it right now, and then mydaughter was like, Mom, God, I
was like, Oh, I'll do it in aminute when I have shut the
door, no, yeah, go do it rightnow.
And I went, Oh my god.

Antoinette (34:07):
And I think that's the true thing where it's like,
wow, you know, if other peoplehave noticed the difference it's
making to your life, yeah,that's huge.
Yes.
And yeah, I think, you know,I've heard from so many women
who are trying all thesedifferent alternatives, and it's
taken them years and years andyears to realize that hormone

(34:29):
replacement therapy is the onlyanswer.
It's the only thing that works.
It is.

Amra Pajalic (34:33):
And what I find really frustrating at this point
is how men have so much more uhinto in the ways of
alternatives and acceptabletreatments.
Oh, you know, um erectiledysfunction Viagra was invented.
Um, prostate exams areinvasive.
Oh, we'll find a nice bloodtest for you.

(34:54):
You know, and and for us aswomen, it's always takes so much
longer.
So much longer because there'sso much more less funding.
And even um, I was listening torecently on social media where
it's like um there's a lawintroduced or or they're now
going to be doing female crashtest dummies to test cars and

(35:15):
impact of crashes for women.
So up until now, when they aredesigning seatbelts, which makes
sense, doesn't it?
Don't you always feel like theseatbelt cuts into you?
Oh, I hate the seatbelt.
Yeah, it feels souncomfortable.

Antoinette (35:27):
Like it serves a purpose, but it is
uncomfortable.

Amra Pajalic (35:30):
Yes, and we end up with more injuries than men
because of the fact that it's,you know, and like we're finding
so much misogyny in medicine interms of the menopause
treatment that um GPs get, uh,and then also the journey of
what we go through.
Yeah.

Antoinette (35:47):
It's really frustrating.
Like sometimes you know, it'sso heavy, this topic.
I don't even know what to sayanymore sometimes.
It's just I feel really sad,angry, and upset for us women
and what we have to go through,how hard we have to fight to get
some support.

Amra Pajalic (36:07):
Yeah.
And the thing for me that isreally concerning is like we as
women just power through.
We do.
And power through.
So if we are at our GP going,I'm not okay, I'm not okay.
Yeah, um, being dismissed.
Yeah.
Why why are they and then likeI was listening recently to a um

(36:27):
GP social media follower, uhsocial media um someone that I
follow on social media, and sheshe does a lot of advocacy, and
she said, you know, we we usedto call them uh whiny women.
They were the whiny women intheir 40s, 50s who were like
something is wrong, something iswrong, but you do all the tests
and nothing is wrong, nothingis wrong.

Antoinette (36:47):
But it's like, no, something is wrong.
Yes, when we say something iswrong, trust us, listen to us.
Because our intuition is secondto none.
Yes.
Especially during this phase ofour life.

Amra Pajalic (37:01):
Yeah, and also as women, like you know, we go
through the monthly um, youknow, periods, we go through a
lot of pain.
Like I love watching on socialmedia when men put on the pet uh
period uh cramps.
I feel so vindicated.
I know.
I feel so vindicated, andthey're falling to the ground
and then they put it on a woman,and the woman's like, yeah, and

(37:23):
not even responding.
Like, you know, if we aresaying that something is not
right, something is not right.
Yes, because we can perseverethrough a lot.
Yes, and we have because youknow, my periods have always
been the bane of my existence.
Um, I actually think I hadendometriosis when I was young.
Um, and so yeah, like it haseverything to do with my

(37:44):
reproductive system has been abig fire.
You know, I had trouble gettingpregnant, trouble staying
pregnant, uh sick duringpregnancy, postnatal depression,
like the works.
The works, you know, everythingto do with my reproductive
system, and then and then thepsychosis during parameters.
Oh my gosh.

Antoinette (38:03):
And you're probably just thinking, like, when is it
when does it end?

Amra Pajalic (38:06):
Yes, yeah.

Antoinette (38:08):
We go through so much.
Yes, we really do.

Amra Pajalic (38:10):
And now with the whole my replacement therapy,
I'm not gonna take it until likeI'm on my deathbed.
Like I'm I'm gonna keep takingit.
No one is taking it away fromme.
I will never stop.
No, no, because after the thehardship and the everyday
struggle, it's like I don'tknow.
Yeah.
Like why would I put myselfthrough that?

Antoinette (38:29):
Yeah, mentally, why would we want to put myself
through that?

Amra Pajalic (38:31):
We're so fortunate in Australia, it's only like
one dollar a day.

Antoinette (38:34):
Oh my god, it's amazing.
Yeah, one dollar a dayaffordable.
Yes, and it is the best thingyou'll ever do.

Amra Pajalic (38:41):
Yeah.

Antoinette (38:41):
If you are going through menopause.

Amra Pajalic (38:43):
Yeah.

Antoinette (38:44):
And then I also think too a lot about how the
uh, you know, the links thereare to things like osteoporosis
and heart disease, how much morevulnerable and at risk are we
of all these other illnesses?
Yes.
Um, it's just it's incredible.

Amra Pajalic (39:01):
And as soon as you start taking a hormone
replacement therapy, how muchyou're lowering you're lowering
that risk.
Yeah.
And even now they're startingto find correlations between um
like a lowered risk of breastcancer.
Yeah.
If you are because of the theuh estradioline, the
progesterone that's being used,but just all of the other health

(39:21):
issues.
Because that's the other thing.
Like I do have a predispositionbecause of my genetic history.
Yeah.
So I am um diabetic and I am onblood pressure medication also.
Um, and that was also becauseof the perimenopause.
As my estrogen went down, thosethings came into play.

Antoinette (39:42):
I had the same issue being pre-diabetic.
And it was genetic for me aswell.
Um, but I had no idea that itwas linked to hormone imbalance.

Amra Pajalic (39:50):
Yes.
Yeah.
And so for me, I'm I'm havingto take the medication and I'm
okay with it because I've foundout that dementia is actually
type 3 diabetes.
Wow.
And that the high sugar umcontributes to brain dec
decline.
And so I'm like, no, I'm takingthe medication.
And obviously, you know, like Istill exercise and I try and

(40:11):
eat healthy, and I would like touh be able to do it through the
health aspect, but when you gothrough perimenopause, um you
can't just exercise it away.
Like there is uh a lothappening changing within.
Yeah.
And I mean, I I did aninterview with my friend

(40:32):
Veronica, who is um a uh, youknow, trains and she's like a
fitness.
And she has got immaculatebloods, even though she's got
the same history as we do.
Yeah.
Um, but she's got immaculatebloods, but you know, like she
does meal preps every day, likehours and hours of meal preps,
and she weighs her protein andshe weighs her veggies, and

(40:56):
that's wonderful that that's youknow, but that that's her
salvation.
But I'm like, no, I ain't doingthat.

Antoinette (41:04):
We just have to find what works for us.

Amra Pajalic (41:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and that's right.
Now I just wanted to make surein terms of um your condition,
how can women sort of learnabout it or know whether they've
got it?
What are some signs apart fromthat going into perimenopause?
Is there anything that that umcan be like, you know, something

(41:27):
that that it might put you onthat path?

Antoinette (41:30):
Well, the thing is with POI, premature ovarian
insufficiency, it's very rare.
There's only one percent of thepopulation who have this.
Wow.
And I'm so lucky.
I know, I know when my doctortold me this, I remember I'm so
blessed.
Of course I'm not.
Not the lotto.
Did you put the lotto?

(41:50):
Um yeah, so I feel like there'snot enough awareness about
this.
There's enough, I think we'regetting better in terms of
talking about perimenopause andmenopause, and there's, you
know, lots of different socialmedia pages and websites, and
there is more awareness andeducation there.
But in terms of POI, there'snot much.

(42:10):
I've tried to look for um pagesor communities and I find
nothing.
Um, so really, if it wasn't formy GP or the Australasian
Mentipour Society, I would knownothing about this.

Amra Pajalic (42:23):
Oh.
So I guess the only thing thatwe can say to women is if you
are feeling some of the thingsthat we talk today in terms of
the changes in the mood and notfeeling like yourself and then
all of those physical doesn'tmatter what your age is.
Sorry.
Um go to in Australia, there'sthe Australasian Society of
Menopause.
If you're elsewhere, find somesort of a society that is uh

(42:47):
menopause and find someone whois actually trained in it, um,
who can actually talk to youabout the hormone replacement
therapy and see, like do thetesting that you need to do.
Because even with me, I foundmy GP um and we started sort of
like I had to do some testingand I had to do pelvic exams and
all these things.

(43:07):
Oh, that too.
And the and the um breastscreening.
Yes.
Yeah.
So it took a little while forme to get the hormone
replacement therapy, and she wasalso trying to like um get my
diabetes a little bit more undercontrol in my yeah.
And I felt like I stillsuffered too long.
Like I still felt like itstretched out too long because

(43:28):
then by the time I got to it, Iwas like, oh my gosh, this I
suffered for so many moremonths.

Antoinette (43:34):
Yep.
I found felt the same actuallybecause when I did find this
beautiful doctor I'm workingwith now, it still took a good
month for me to get results fromother testings and bone density
scans and you know, all sortsof different tests before she
could actually say, okay, youare um a candidate for HRT.

Amra Pajalic (43:55):
Yeah.

Antoinette (43:56):
So it does, I don't know, something needs to change
there.

Amra Pajalic (43:59):
Yes.

Antoinette (44:00):
Um because we are still being delayed of the
treatment and the support thatwe need.

Amra Pajalic (44:05):
Yeah, and and just the way it wears you down.
Because I I went to my doctorand I said, look, if this
continues for much longer, I'mnot going to be married, I'm not
going to be a teacher, and I'mnot going to have many friends
left.
Because, you know, that thatlack of patience and that
irritability is with everyone.
It is.

(44:26):
I mean, it's with yourself too.
Yes.
Like you're irritated withyourself.

Antoinette (44:29):
Yeah, we're we're at our wit's end with ourselves.

Amra Pajalic (44:31):
Yeah, but then everybody, and it it is just
like because it feels like yourwhole body, it's almost like a
heartbeat, like your whole bodyis vibrating, and you are just,
I don't know, in this alteredstate.
I didn't even feel like I couldsit.

Antoinette (44:48):
Oh, you just you don't know what to do.
Sit, stand, yell, scream, cry.
Sometimes I felt like I wasscreaming into the abyss and no
one was bloody listening.
No.
And it's just like oh you feelisolated.
Yeah.
So isolated.

Amra Pajalic (45:03):
And for me, because I like in my family,
there is a history of suicide.
Yeah.
And when I started sort ofgetting that dark, and I was
like, I've never been this dark.
I have never kind of gone thereand ever thought, time out, I'm
done.
Um but like when when thingssort of started getting a little

(45:24):
bit there, where I'm like, isthis worth is this worth it?
You really like it, it's veryscary.
And we both know women who haveactually been pushed to the
edge.
Yeah.
Um, you know, who who werelike, either you do something
now for me or I'm I'm done.

Antoinette (45:44):
Yeah, I'm I'm done.
It's just really upsetting thatwe have to fight that hard when
we're already so tired.
Yeah.
And yeah, I I just I hope thatthere's a shift in that for
future menopause or women.
Yes.

Amra Pajalic (46:04):
Because it's exhausting.
It really is.
And like that's the otherthing.
Like you feel already soexhausted because your body is
fighting, your brain isfighting, and then you're having
to fight the system, and you'rehaving to fight to be heard,
and you're having to fight to belike, no, I'm not okay.
Yes.
This really I am not okay.
I'm not a whingy woman.

(46:25):
Yeah, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I don't know.
It's it's really um horrible.
Um, so I think one of thethings also is like, you know,
when we think about women whoare going through this, what
what do we think of some thingsthat can happen?
I mean, obviously, us talkingand sharing, I think.

Antoinette (46:43):
Yeah, like it's really good that we are starting
to talk more about it.
And women who are going throughthis are finding each other,
we're building our own littlecommunities.
Yeah.
But I think what I would liketo see is things shifting in the
workplace for us because as wewere saying earlier, the
cognitive impact this has on usis huge.

(47:04):
And performing simple dailytasks in your job becomes
impossible some days.
And yes, you know, just like werecognize things like pregnancy
and mental illnesses in theworkplace, you know, they can be
limiting.
Mention can be limiting too.
Yes.

Amra Pajalic (47:21):
And yeah, and I've had conversations um about the
ageism where we kind of youngerpeople get irritated with us and
snappy with us and like thinkand just do it and just come on.
Yes.
And it's like, well, no.
Um we need to process, we needto, we need a moment.

(47:44):
We need a minute.
Yeah, and and so there is, andlike most of us, like with you,
you you're very young, but witha lot of us, you know, when
we're when we're at that age,that there is that element of
ageism creeping in.
Yes, there is.
And you're like, you're thedotty woman, and it's like,
well, yes, I am a dotty woman,but this is not because like
just like when when I waspregnant and I had baby brain,

(48:04):
that's right, and the hormoneswere screwed with me.
Yeah, this is exactly the samething.

Antoinette (48:08):
This is exactly the same.
That's what I was saying tomyself.
Like, I was really thinkingabout, you know, what do I want
to see for the future?
And I want this to berecognized, like pregnancy and
mental illnesses.
Yeah.
Because we do need that minuteto process.
We do need people to be patientwith us.
Yes.
And understand and have thatawareness.

Amra Pajalic (48:27):
Yeah, and sometimes like I've I've had to
like walk out of me, forexample, you know, because I can
feel myself like now I'm much,much better.
Yeah.
But I remember at the height Icould not sit into in rooms
where everything was so loud andjust it felt like a baby.
Battering me.
And I had to leave and getaway.
Um, yeah, and just it it allfelt so overwhelming.

Antoinette (48:52):
I found too that I probably took more days off than
I ever did during that timebecause I just would wake up and
go, nope, I'm not doing peopletoday.
I cannot do people.
I cannot do noise.
Yes.
And I really didn't realise atthe time what was happening, but
now that I'm aware, you realizejust how sensitive you are to
everything.

Amra Pajalic (49:13):
And we work in a school with 2,000 uh like 800,
1800 students and 200 staff.
Yep.
And they put us in a staffmeeting with, you know, uh over
a hundred people in the oneroom, all talking and having,
you know, reflections and thenoise is spectacular.

(49:35):
Yeah, it's next level.
Yeah, and then walking down thecorridors um during break time.
Yes, and the bell and the musicand the screaming kids.
Yes, yes, it really is a lot,and that's why I was like, I'm
not gonna be able to teach formuch longer because where I was
and what that was doing to me,it it was really difficult.

(49:57):
And so there is somerecognition now where some
workplaces are doing moretraining um and more support,
but we do need to do more ofthat.
Yes.
And I just also sort of, yeah,younger workers, you know, women
and men, it's coming for you.

Antoinette (50:13):
I was going to say that, yes.
Yes because I, you know, havehad some comments about, you
know, this stage of life and myage and from other women who are
younger, and I just think, youknow what?
It's gonna come for you.
And when it does, yeah, goodluck.

Amra Pajalic (50:33):
Meant too.
Meant too.
If you happen to have women inyour life, which I think all men
do, even if they're gay um andthey're partnered with a man,
they will still have some womanin their life.
I'm going through this.
Yeah, but if you are partneredwith a woman, um, you will
experience this.
And I can tell you, my husbanddid not enjoy it.

(50:54):
Uh, he suffered.
He actually has said he's like,I I suffered just as much as
you did.
I'm like, I deny as much, but Ido acknowledge.
Acknowledge when he would havegone back.
That we've suffered, yeah.
Because, and honestly, mymarriage, because you can't be
in a partnership with someonewhen you have nothing, when you

(51:17):
have no ability to be patient,to be empathetic, to be for
them.
Um, and like even there's a lotof these things showing up on
social media about um husbands,you know, they're breathing,
they're breathing funny.

Antoinette (51:30):
Yes, like that's what happens.
Yeah, just the simplest thing.
Yeah, oh God, get away from me.

Amra Pajalic (51:36):
Yes.
Like I've got a friend who umclosing of the door, so he slams
the door, and it's like, oh,oh, it's it's getting to that
point.
Because like those thingsbecome so amplified.

Antoinette (51:48):
Oh, it is, yeah.

Amra Pajalic (51:49):
And you've got one part of your brain going,
You're psycho, you could becompletely psycho.

Antoinette (51:54):
Yeah, but you can't stop.
No, you cannot control it.

Amra Pajalic (51:57):
It's it is like a mental, completely like a mental
breakdown where like your yourbrain is playing tricks on you,
is doing things to you.
Yeah.
And honestly, the hormonereplacement therapy is the
medicine.
Because as soon as I got on,and I've had this conversation
with so many women, as soon asthey started it, just like for

(52:20):
me, it felt like my brain wasnot on fire anymore, my body was
not on fire anymore.

Antoinette (52:27):
When it kicks in, I can't explain that feeling.
No, it was one of the best daysof my life.
That sounds dramatic.
No, but even the sleeping whereyou're like, oh my god, this is
sort of feeling.
Ever since taking HRT, I sleeplike a baby.
Yes.
Because you lose that abilityto go into that deep sleep.

Amra Pajalic (52:44):
Yes.
And so, you know, you're justconstantly waking up.
It's like those early days ofwhen you have a newborn.
Yes.
And you're just constantlywaking up and you're on alert
and you're like, I don't knowwhy I'm an alert.
Yep.
But I've got an adrenalinesurge now, uh, something's going
on, and then you need to gosnack.
Because you've gone through thewhole cycle of adrenaline and
the cortisol, and then it'slike, and now I need to go have

(53:05):
a s it's just a crazy, crazytime.
Which which doesn't helpbecause then that sets off other
things.
Exactly.
But it's just this whole cycle,whereas now it's like, oh, this
is what it's like to have adeep sleep and to wake up and
feel okay.

Antoinette (53:21):
And not wake up in a pool of sweat as well, because
the night sweats were also notpleasant.

Amra Pajalic (53:28):
Oh my gosh, changing of clothes and just
being so uncomfortable, but sotired.
But so tired.
And then you're like, oh mygod, I've got to deal with this.
Yeah.
But I'm I'm like, you know, andthen the way it sits off your
whole body, and then you have totry and calm it down again.
Yeah.
It's a lot.

Antoinette (53:44):
It really um it's debilitating.
Yeah.
I found that I had to cancel alot of social outings and um
events that I had on because Iwouldn't sleep.
I would be waking up in a poolof sweat.
And like you said, that rageyou get from that those flushes.

Amra Pajalic (54:04):
I I was just I I couldn't be around people.
No, no, I found the saying.
Yeah.
I sort of went into imposedlockdown.
Yeah.
Where I was like, I I can'tpeople, I don't like you're
constantly canceling even withfriends.
Yes.
Well you're like, I really loveyou, but I just I can't, and I
don't want to.
And I had so many Duna days andI would just be in bed and just

(54:24):
like I don't want to doanything.
Which I did too.
I you know, I don't want to,like, yeah, you you just feel
sad.
And you know, I even remembermy husband trying to like get me
out of bed and I'm like, andcrying, just so much crying.

Antoinette (54:39):
Oh, the crying.
I you know, I I can shed a tearhere and there if something
really impacts me.
But I found that I was crying,and when I say crying, sobbing,
howling, yes, over the sickestthings.
Yes, it was just something I'venever experienced before.

Amra Pajalic (55:00):
No, I actually had to tell my daughter, I'm like,
if you see me, just walk pastme.
Yeah, just leave me because Ican't, I just have to let that
happen.
You just have to let it run.
And and go through it.
Uh, and I'm like, just don'tbother trying to because they
can't comfort you.
No one can comfort you.
But in that moment you feellike the world is ending,

(55:20):
there's no hope, everything isbleak, it's the end.
Yeah.
And then eventually you're kindof like, okay, let's just try
and and you know, but thenyou're so exhausted.
Oh wow.
But anyway, you you you kind offight through.
Yeah.
Um, but now we are full of joyand we are very happy.
So hormone replacement.
Thanks to HRT.
Yes, absolutely.

(55:41):
Um, yeah, so uh this questionthat I think would be really
great for us to close on.
Okay.
So for our daughters, what dowe want them to know that we
didn't?

Antoinette (55:54):
I want them to know that if something is off, trust
your instincts, don't gaslightyourself and tell yourself this
is normal.

Amra Pajalic (56:04):
Yes.

Antoinette (56:05):
Speak up.
Find a really good supportnetwork.
Find a really good GP andadvocate for yourself.
Yes.
Because you're right.
Yes, you're always right.
Yeah.
Your gut is always right.

Amra Pajalic (56:22):
Yeah.
And you know, everyone, everywoman will go through this.
The degree to which your bodywill go through this is
something that only you willknow when you go through it.
And you might get clues fromthe women in your family.
Um, or you might not.
You know, it is very variable.

(56:43):
Um, but every woman willdefinitively, every woman with
ovaries will go through this.
Yes.
It's just a matter of when.

Antoinette (56:52):
Yes.

Amra Pajalic (56:52):
And so it's just um trying to have that
information and just sort ofknow as much.
Be informed.
Yeah, be informed becausethat's that's also the difficult
thing that we we struggledwith.
Yeah.
Knowing where to go, where toget help, what to do.
And then also, you know, I Ihad um because we were of the

(57:13):
generation where hormonereplacement therapy had such a
bad name.
I was like, oh my god, breastcancer, breast cancer, no, no,
no, breast cancer.
And even I have a friend who umhas had cysts and is kind of at
risk in one sense with breastcancer, and so they were
hesitant to give her hormonereplacement therapy, and she got
to the point where she said, Idon't care.
I at this point my quality oflife is so bad.

(57:36):
It's about quality of life inthe percentage and the
possibility of men gettingbreast cancer does not present
as much of a fear, yeah, becauseat this point, like she was she
was at that point where she wassuicidal, where she's like, I'm
not gonna be here for muchlonger, so it makes no
difference.
Yeah, yeah.
And when the doctors heardthat, they were like, Oh, oh.

(57:56):
And up until then, they werelike, Oh, we have to do this and
we have to do that, and justkind of making her go through
all these hoops and trying tosort of put her off.
Um, and when she reached thatpoint, they were like, Oh, okay,
yeah.
So, thank you so much forcoming to talk to me about this.
I hope that women hear theseepisodes and that they get help.

(58:17):
I'm going to provide some linksfor places you can go to get
support and people that I'mfollowing that I'm finding
really helpful.
Yeah.
Um, and yeah, we hope that wecan have um a better and more
informed menopause journey.
That's our plan.
Yeah, so thank you.
Thank you for tuning in toAmara's armchair anecdotes.

(58:41):
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