August 18, 2025 • 37 mins
Melbourne-based artist Lukas Kasper shares his journey from skateboarding graffiti artist to internationally recognized muralist working across Australia, North America and Southeast Asia. His evolution from painting monsters to creating works exploring mental health, environmental awareness and our relationship with animals reveals how creative practices change and grow over time.
• Beginning his art career through graffiti and skateboarding culture while finding community and validation
• Taking initiative by approaching cafes and bars to host art shows when formal gallery access wasn't available
• Adapting artistic style to different contexts while maintaining integrity across commercial work
• Balancing commissioned projects with personal vision when working with councils and brands
• Starting teaching at 17 and continuing community engagement through school workshops and YouTube tutorials
• Creating a YouTube channel to share spray paint techniques and document artistic journey
• Participating in international residencies including recent work in Mongolia and China
• Experiencing a pivotal six-month residency in Wodonga that transformed his career trajectory
• Finding motivation and building networks as keys to sustainable artistic practice
• Managing the mental and financial challenges of being a full-time working artist
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amra Pajalic (00:01):
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes.
I'm Amra Pajalic, writer,teacher and storyteller.
Pull up a chair and let's diveinto stories about writing life
and lessons learned, sharingwisdom from my armchair to yours
.
You can find the episode shownotes, your free episode
(00:22):
handouts and my how-to guides atamrahpayalichcom slash podcast.
And now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amra's ArmchairAnecdotes.
Today's guest isMelbourne-based artist, Lukas
Kasper.
He began his art in 2009 andhe's inspired by street art,
(00:43):
graffiti and skateboardingculture.
He's best known for large-scalemurals and public art projects.
He blends bold line work,adaptive color palettes and his
love of native flora and fauna,which look amazing.
His work often explores themesof mental health, environmental
(01:03):
awareness and our relationshipwith animals.
He's painted walls andexhibited his work across
Australia, North America andSoutheast Asia, and includes art
residencies and brandcollaborations and
community-focused workshops, andhave shaped his transition in
his practice over time.
(01:24):
Welcome, Lukas.
Lukas Kasper (01:25):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Amra Pajalic (01:27):
And well, Lukas is also an artist in residence
here at the Hunt Club, so we'vegotten to know each other
through that, and so I'm sograteful that he has agreed to
come on the podcast and he'salso been helping me with the
technical aspects, Trying to asmuch as I know.
It has been a big learningcurve for me.
So your beginnings are sort ofrooted in graffiti and street
(01:54):
art and then you sort of shiftedinto gallery exhibitions and
commissioned mural projects.
Can you talk a bit through that?
Lukas Kasper (02:02):
Yeah, well, I first started painting, yeah,
just through, just throughgraffiti, just being a little
kid figuring myself out andskateboarding, and you know, I
found like a little communitywithin that graffiti type of
realm and a sense of likeadulation in a in a weird way,
because you know you'd see yourstuff out in public and you're
like I did that and you'rerunning around at night like a
(02:22):
little ninja painting and it'sunderstandable why.
Um, well, I could definitelyunderstand why people become
addicted to graffiti.
At like, a younger age tends tobe like a topic of discussion
with a lot of people where theysay to mural artists when you're
painting, like I love thisstuff, but I hate that tagging,
which I can understand too, likeit makes sense, but in those I
(02:45):
definitely flashed back to beinga kid and realizing how it can,
like, completely captivate you.
So, yeah, that's how I started,became addicted to painting
graffiti and then I got in a bitof trouble here and there in
Queensland yeah with, yeah,graffiti.
Amra Pajalic (03:05):
Yeah, because I mean it is art.
But then there's also thatelement of public spaces or even
private spaces where it's beingdone.
Lukas Kasper (03:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's understandable why there's laws
and stuff behind all of it,otherwise the place would be
running rampant with graffitieverywhere.
But, yeah, yeah, at that point,like I was also at a younger
age I I used to, because I grewup in queensland I used to skate
around the city when I was likereally young, and I would drop
(03:36):
into every cafe and bar and anyplace that would possibly hang
artwork and I just asked, likeyou know, do you have walls that
I can facilitate a show in?
that's amazing yeah, suchinitiative so, yeah, it was just
grassroots like, especially inQueensland at that time, like
you know, many years ago now,there wasn't many gallery spaces
(03:56):
that was like accessible tolike a young kid that only knew
graffiti and knew nothing aboutthe art world.
So that's how I got my foot inthe door.
It's just showing through thosespaces.
Um, because, you know, whileI'm at home I was still painting
on canvases.
Some were graffiti looking,some had characters that you
know, all different types ofwork.
I mostly painted them on thingsI'd find at op shops, so like
(04:20):
recycled frames and canvases and, yeah, put on shows.
I started curating spaces inthe city, like at bars.
There's this one bar inQueensland called Brew, it's
like this really rad space and Iused to do rotating shows once
a month there and just sort offigured out what the gallery
(04:41):
world sort of you know, lookedlike to me.
So, yeah, I started showing,started painting more
professionally and it just sortof naturally progressed.
Amra Pajalic (04:51):
Yeah, I remember talking to you when you got a
commission for something and youwere like people are surprised
that you can do that Like youare an artist, you know you do
art like graffiti.
Art is one part of it, butthere's all this other, you know
, just in terms of the mediumsthat you use and the different
(05:12):
ways that you experiment, andsometimes that's a bit of a
shame, where you know people geta little bit pigeonholed and
you've managed to, I think, getout of that and do all these
different things.
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (05:24):
I tend to be like a jam of all trades with that
type of stuff.
I mean, literally I'm out inthe balcony right now in the
studio cutting up things tocreate A-frames for, like, live
painting events and all that.
So I'm always doing somethingdifferent and I think my style
is similar in that way where Ican vary from one thing to the
next.
Like as a public artist, youtend to have to fit the
(05:46):
aesthetic of like where you'repainting.
Like I painted in a park forBrinkbank City Council not too
long ago and you know I lookedaround and there was beautiful
swans and ducks and all this.
So it was first thing that cameto mind was doing, you know,
some beautiful realism mixedwith my style, because, yeah,
(06:06):
it's not every setting that theywould want some sort of
graffiti-ish.
You know, street art styling.
Like even myself, like growingup I mostly just painted
monsters, these littlecharacters.
And even for me, like I don'twant a big one painted in my
bedroom, you know, along thewall I look at it every day.
I think it would be quiteintimidating.
(06:27):
But that out in, you know,melbourne laneway is like
perfect, like it fits.
It's sort of raw, it's gritty.
So over time, like being apublic artist.
Having to answer briefs andlooking at spaces and
approaching them correctly hasmade me like vary my style a bit
and be able to paint a lot ofdifferent things well, just I
(06:48):
want to pick that up because youknow that's one of the things
when you are that, that artistand you're wanting to get those
gigs and stuff.
Amra Pajalic (06:54):
It is about being able to interpret and be able to
work with people, but thenthere's that aspect of being an
artist and your vision and stuff.
How do you navigate those two?
Lukas Kasper (07:03):
things.
There's many challenges alongthe way, it's hard.
It's hard.
That's like riding that thinline is like the most
challenging thing.
Like I'm, you know, I couldreally appreciate artists that
like they have one style, that'swhat they paint and they paint
that everywhere.
People recognize them as that.
I think that's awesome If youcan you, you know push one
(07:26):
visual aesthetic and have itappreciated to the point where
you can just do thatconsistently.
That's amazing.
Um, but yeah, for me, I guessthe first thing that came to
mind was like monsters and someof these like creepy looking
things.
So I really had to vary out,and it puts me in moments where
I have to answer a brief.
That can be really challenging,but you just push through it.
(07:50):
I've had jobs that they looklike they're it's like a good
payday, it's going to treat mewell, it's a good spot and all
this.
But it's like the first two orthree days I'm looking at it,
I'm like I have nothing for this, but I always manage to get
over the other side.
And what's odd, too, is thoseare the jobs.
They're usually the ones I lookat the end and I go.
(08:12):
I'm like super proud of it.
Amra Pajalic (08:14):
So it's that inspiration versus perspiration.
Lukas Kasper (08:17):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (08:18):
Like, you know, do you do things just when you're
inspired.
But you have to actually likeif you're going to be, you know,
a working artist, a workingwriter, you have to be doing it
even when you're not feeling it.
In the moment you have to findit regardless.
Lukas Kasper (08:32):
Yeah, and that's why I'm here Like I'm in the
studio pretty much every day.
I'm not painting outside, I'mpainting or like making
something in here, like I alwaysjust sort of force myself.
Sometimes I come in here andsit in my seat and like look at
the wall for like two hours,nothing.
But at least I'm here and yeah,it keeps me motivated it
doesn't work.
Amra Pajalic (08:51):
You're kind of like okay, this is it.
Something starts percolatingbecause we don't have the tv.
Like if we're at home and we'vegot the tv, we're like, oh,
let's turn on the tv.
But we're here and doesn'tmatter how tired I am, I still
get some, some work done.
Lukas Kasper (09:03):
Yeah, yeah, and there's, like you know, I've got
two kittens at home and they'revery distracting.
Yes, yeah.
Amra Pajalic (09:10):
I think there's so much more.
Yeah, so I think we've touchedon some of these things.
You described that your monstertheme line work was a
therapeutic outlet and nowyou've sort of shifted towards
mental health, animals andenvironmental themes.
So can you sort of talk throughthat evolution?
Lukas Kasper (09:33):
Yeah, I think the monster theme all started up
more like subconsciously.
There was not really anintention in my mind as to the
reason why I was painting them,but I sort of figured out.
It was like a natural thing.
It was almost like a mandalayou draw the center and you
shape out and shape out andshape out, and it's quite a
therapeutic process.
(09:53):
It's how I used to approach themonsters.
I'd do two eyes and I'd justwork my way out, fill them in,
line them up, and it was justthis.
Arts always put me in the placewhere the negative thoughts just
vanish.
Um, line them up, and it wasjust this.
Uh, you know, art's always putme in the place where the you
know, the negative thoughts justvanish, and that's I.
I realized, like, as I got youknow older, um, that's what I
(10:13):
was using it for.
But, um, you know, over timeyou know you become a bit more
mature and you sort of realizethat maybe you want to make some
type of statement or uh, put aspecific visual into that.
So that mesh that you know mademe uh, start implementing in
different things, like usingthose same methods, but maybe
(10:36):
painting an animal or putting in, you know, putting an animal
into it or different types ofvisuals like implementing in.
So I guess yeah, it juststarted as monsters and now
that'll be in pretty mucheverything I ever paint.
You'll see that form of thatpractice.
But I guess it holds moreintent rather than just being a
(10:58):
thing.
I don't really know why I'mdoing it, but I'm just doing it.
Amra Pajalic (11:01):
And that's the fascinating thing about being an
artist there's always thissubconscious element to it.
And then people are asking youquestions and you're like, all
right, I'll try, and you know,package it.
But at the end of the daythere's a lot of that work, that
cognitive work, that happensthere yeah, it can be a weird
thing, like it's, especiallybeing in like the public space.
Lukas Kasper (11:20):
you know people ask you questions like what is
yes, and like you don't have ananswer.
Amra Pajalic (11:24):
Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, Sometimes when people
are in my work and they're like, oh, you know, they said that,
and I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah,yeah, absolutely yeah, I don't
know.
Yeah, but yeah, you're kind ofthere's so much of us on that.
So you've had involvement inschool murals and community art,
creative workshops.
(11:45):
So how has that community-basedart evolved?
And, you know, how have yougotten into that?
Lukas Kasper (11:53):
Well, I was your typical like disengaged kid in
school.
So I can definitely, you know Ican relate to a lot of young
people that are going throughsimilar things.
So I just really naturallyfound myself in situations where
a school wanted to interact anddo a workshop or do a mural or
(12:15):
do whatever it is, and I tend topitch the idea of like working
with the kids.
So it's actually strange, likethe first place I ever taught I
was probably 17, I think and itwas for a place called oh god,
what's it called?
Oh yeah, it was for a placecalled noffs and it was
(12:35):
n-o-f-f-s and they ran a programfor the street university.
I walked into this building oneday because out the front there
was a a-frame it says, likegraffiti artists want it.
Amra Pajalic (12:45):
I was like, oh yeah, I was like you don't see
that every day we're looking foryou yeah.
Lukas Kasper (12:49):
So I walked in and um started painting.
Like they gave me a bunch ofpaint.
I painted the wall and saidcome back next week and bring
your AVN.
And I was like, yeah, cool,cool.
I had no idea what an AVN was.
So I went home, signed up for asole trader AVN.
That's how I got my first paidjobs.
And I came back and they werelike, yeah, you have a job,
(13:17):
you're going to come back hereonce a week and you're going to
run like art workshops graffitiart workshops with the young
people.
So I became a facilitator andthe age demo that was working
with I was working with peoplethat were, you know, 10 years
older than me.
So I was just like this kiddidn't know how to teach, didn't
know what to do, but you know,they're a really cool place
where they realize that thepeople that should be teaching
this stuff are the people thatare part of that world.
(13:38):
So I might have been younger,but that was my entire life.
So I was in the right spot.
I wasn't mature enough to teach.
A lot of things stumped me, itwas crazy.
Amra Pajalic (13:50):
Yeah, teaching is a.
Lukas Kasper (13:52):
Yeah, so at a very young age I was just thrown
into it with that and then Ithink every sort of teaching
workshop type of situation sincehas been, uh, easier than what
that was.
So, yeah, I got thrown in thedeep end and ever since, um,
yeah, I just work with youngpeople and schools and stuff all
(14:12):
the time and I just love it.
Amra Pajalic (14:14):
Yeah, and even now you're, in a sense, um, your
youtube channel is very muchfocused on that teaching side of
it, where it's about showingtechniques and showing all these
different things.
So it says that's now become apart of your um, what would it
call your tool, your toolbox?
Lukas Kasper (14:32):
yeah, yeah, and that's a big reason why I did.
That is because I know a lot ofkids don't have, say, the money
to book like a workshop or youknow, and it's a rare thing.
If an artist comes to yourschool and you know you are that
young person that wants tolearn and all that it, you know
it can be a rare thing.
So for those kids that you knowthey don't have the money or
(14:55):
they don't have the opportunity,or maybe they're even in a
place around the world wherestreet art or graffiti isn't
like an accepted thing, likehere in melbourne, they can at
least go onto youtube and watchlike heaps and heaps of videos
and how to do it.
Amra Pajalic (15:08):
So yeah, and there is like we sort of make out
sometimes, like you know, therehas to be a way of learning and
the gatekeeping part of someindustries like my industry also
in terms of writing but at theend of the day, like there is an
element of you have a gift andyou have a talent and it's
something that you enjoy doing,and there's certain things that
(15:28):
can be taught within that scope.
But then there's certain thingswhere it's just like you like
it, you do it, it, you enjoy itand it's just creating those
opportunities sometimes.
Lukas Kasper (15:39):
Yeah, and accessing information around
spray paint and all these things.
It's like a really tricky thing.
You can't really go to schoolto be an artist and play with
mediums, but with the stuff thatI use, even if I spoke to art
students, they probably wouldn'tknow what the caps are, the
cans and all that stuff.
So it's I don't know.
I just saw a void where, like,a lot of people were in the dark
(16:02):
and I decided to change that.
Amra Pajalic (16:04):
Yeah, and you're doing really well with your
YouTube channel, so it's reallybuilding an audience, and
showing that niche is somethingthat you found that does need to
be filled.
There is a need for it, whichis just so heartening.
Hopefully, have you had anyfeedback from any people that
have sort of been?
Lukas Kasper (16:21):
doing it.
Yeah, heaps.
Yeah.
It's been interesting seeing alot of people go from, because
if people are communicating,it's mostly on Instagram or
they'll start following me thereand they send me like a big
message and yeah, I've had heaps, it's really yeah, yeah, it's
really paying off.
A lot of people are saying howmuch it's helped them and all
this and the tutorial stuff hasdefinitely been the stuff that's
(16:45):
like blown up my channel wellas an aspiring youtube.
Amra Pajalic (16:51):
You know, I look at you and I'm like, oh, but you
, you're really um doing thework with it in terms of the
ideas and generating andrecording every week and
developing that content anddoing the themes in terms of,
you know, building these videosso that they're beautifully
cohesive and sort of doing thatsupport.
(17:13):
So, yeah, there's a lot of workbehind the scenes that goes
into it.
Lukas Kasper (17:18):
It takes away from my painting time.
I spend more time editing thevideo than I do painting
whatever artwork that I'm doing.
So, tutorials are a bit easierbecause you talk for a little
while and you know that can be aminute.
But a minute worth of like apainting edit takes, you know,
five hours to edit.
Yes, because you're actuallydoing it, and then you're having
(17:38):
to like shorten it, yeah, andthen slow-mo, and then this yeah
, it's a lot of work.
Amra Pajalic (17:45):
Is it leading, though, to more opportunities in
terms of people seeing you whomight not have seen you before,
and getting more work in thatway, too?
Lukas Kasper (17:52):
I think so.
I don't know how much it'stranslating to projects coming
through.
It's hard to say, even withbrand collaborations.
If they see you have a YouTubechannel and there's 10,000
people that are watching you andyou have a bit of a following,
that stuff can really help youin those ways, in small ways.
You might not even hear fromthem.
(18:13):
This is the reason why we wereattracted, like attracted to you
as an artist, so in that way itcan help.
I don't know how many likecouncils with budgets and stuff
are seeing those videos, but allin all, I also don't care too
much about like that side ofthings, like I really find a
(18:34):
strong level of connection tolike just documenting, having
video and they can look back onand like in many, many years
from now and like 40 years ifYouTube's still a thing and it's
not Monday, yes, I'm sort ofthinking in that way of I can't
wait to look back when I'm, youknow, 60 years old, at videos
(18:55):
when I was like a 28-year-oldkid I love that, yeah.
So it's like I'm collecting,like my memory is horrible too,
so it's like I'm collectingthese little pieces and so I
just get a kick out of justdocumenting.
I really love it.
Amra Pajalic (19:09):
I love that.
That's a really great way ofthinking about it.
Yeah, Because you know, I havethese moments also where it's
like why am I doing things andwhat am I doing?
But my philosophy is justcreate things and put them out
there and see it.
But that's an even betterphilosophy where it's like
you're documenting for yourselfand then anything else gravy,
(19:32):
yeah, it's just beautiful gravy,oh that's awesome.
Well, you talked about your um,that you have been working with
brands, so you worked with likeamazon, australia and doritos um
.
So you know what was there likewith like that transition into
commercial work and artisticprinciples and you know melding
(19:52):
those two uh, like every everycollaboration is different
depending on who you're speakingto.
Lukas Kasper (19:57):
I think the hardest thing I found is when
you work with big brands, youdon't work with them, you work
with the people that are betweenthem.
So it's this weird chain effectthing where a lot of creative
ideas can get watered down veryquickly because if you're
speaking to one team and thenthey speak to a team, and then
they speak, and it keeps goingup the ladder.
By the time it comes back downthe ladder you're like this.
(20:19):
You know, it's interesting howyou, when you first get
approached, you feel likespecial, like I'm leading this
thing, but then, as time goes on, you realize you're just like a
cog in the wheel.
You know which it's I mean.
But not every partnership feelsthat way.
Amra Pajalic (20:34):
Yeah, yeah which it's I mean, but not every
partnership feels that way.
Lukas Kasper (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, but some places it's more creatively
driven, some are not.
I think if a brand comes to me,they probably know what to
expect, but, like I said, withso many you know, with so many
people along the way, it canoften be misunderstood a little
bit.
So it's a real challenge tolike create a product that is,
(20:58):
or like to be a part of aproject that remains your style
and your vision and everythingalong the way.
Amra Pajalic (21:06):
Yeah, again, going back to that versus commerce,
and when you're making art forpeople and they're paying you
for it.
Because I'm of the view as awriter, I've reached this point
now where, if people want to,you know, buy a piece of writing
I don't care what it is theysuggest, I'm like accept, accept
, accept, I'm not precious.
(21:27):
But I also haven't been in aposition where I've had to
compromise.
You know where I'm like oh, I'mnot sure about that.
I'm like, no, that's fine.
Yeah.
Compromise you know where I'mlike oh, I'm not sure about that
.
I'm like, no, that's fine.
Yeah, but it is always that linethat you walk, where you know
you are working for someone andjust trying to see that big
(21:49):
vision in terms of that end andthat document, as you're talking
about, in terms of this is whatyou did, this is what you're a
part of.
Yeah, I remember buying.
I went to 7-Eleven and I boughtthe Doritos, and I don't eat
Doritos, but I did eat them justbecause I wanted to see it.
Yeah, because I'm like this isso cool.
I just want to be a part ofthis where I know someone who
did this.
Lukas Kasper (22:06):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (22:06):
Which is really fabulous.
Now you've done residenciesacross the world and I think he
just came back from it.
Yeah, yeah, just came back frommongolia and china.
Yeah, that's crazy tell meabout that.
Lukas Kasper (22:20):
Um, I went over to mongolia to paint in a thing
called playtime festival andthat is a it's like a music
festival but they set up wallsaround the location.
It's in a place called umulaanbaatar, which is a like a
main city in mongolia, and, yeah, painted in the festival.
That was four days and then Iwent on like a little outback
(22:41):
trip to check out mongolia toget inspiration for future
paintings.
But I decided I wanted to makemore of a trip out of it.
So I um booked like a trainfrom mongolia to like inner
molia, just on the Chineseborder, and then from there to
Beijing.
I just wanted to spend a monthtrying to find walls, find
(23:02):
opportunities, just to get mystuff up internationally and
meet artists and get inspiration.
So it was one month of justchaos and living out of a
backpack and getting you knowelectric bikes where we to get
here and there and paint andtrying to get permission.
So it was just one month of acrazy adventure.
(23:23):
That's amazing, yeah, and it'ssuper important to do that stuff
.
It's incredible how much youget out of it, even
subconsciously, going forward.
I feel like, since I come back,my battery just feels like
recharged with inspiration andideas.
There's way more things I wantto do and yeah, I do that all
(23:44):
the time.
I did that in Bali, I did thatin Canada.
I just fly over places and tryto figure it out.
Amra Pajalic (23:54):
Love it.
I just love it, and that's thething isn, isn't it?
I've got to take those risksyeah you've got to just put
yourself out there and it'sabout living life and
contributing.
Um, yeah, you're giving meideas.
There's planting a lot of ideasnow.
Um, so, looking back, what wasthe biggest pivot moment of your
(24:14):
career?
Could you like pinpoint onetransition, do you think?
Lukas Kasper (24:18):
um a pivot, to like chat, like changing my
approach.
Amra Pajalic (24:23):
Yeah, it was something like a big change,
where you transition down onething to another where you're
like oh, that was a.
I mean I guess a little bit.
You've already talked about theteaching yeah or a figure
that's 17 years old and how thatum really kind of changed in
getting this skill set.
Lukas Kasper (24:38):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (24:39):
Is there anything else?
Lukas Kasper (24:40):
I think.
Well, there was one like majorproject that I did that I
learned a lot from and I sort ofput my artwork on the larger
scale, I think, which was inWodonga, albury, wodonga, right
on the New South Wales borderbetween Victoria, new South
Wales, a town called Wodonga,albury, wodonga, right on the
New South Wales border betweenVictoria and New South Wales, a
town called Wodonga, and I wentthere for a six-month artist
(25:03):
residency, I guess you'd call it, where I worked for the council
full-time.
I got a budget for paint whichwas insane and, yeah, got my own
little rental van and wentaround.
My mission was just to paintwalls for six months.
So during that period I thinkLike I already took my work very
seriously and all that.
(25:24):
But I think it's almost like,when I look back, I think of my
practice before Wodonga andafter Wodonga, almost like it
was like that level and up pointand it really pushed me to like
a next level, I think I think Igot taken a little bit more
seriously.
I wasn't just a you know guypainting in laneways and
(25:47):
occasionally getting commissions.
I was doing these large, grandartworks that are now held in
their art collection and it wasa big thing, so that was a huge
opportunity.
I think that pivoted me.
It was in the perfect timewhere I was ready to move out of
a big cold warehouse likecommunal space to my own spot
(26:09):
like this.
And, yeah, I think that when Ithink about a pivoting moment, I
probably think back to that.
It's almost like my directionchanged completely after that
project.
Amra Pajalic (26:21):
Were you applying for that?
Because that's something thatwe've talked about, where you're
always kind of looking foropportunities and applying for
grants and applying forresidencies, and that's a big
part of this life that we live.
So can you talk about that,like, how have you learned to do
that?
What are the things you'velearned through that?
Lukas Kasper (26:40):
Yeah, so that was an application and it was over
COVID.
Oh, yes, yeah, through that.
Yeah, so that was applicationand it was over covid.
So, yeah, so there's all thesedifferent little funding streams
, activations and things likethat.
So, uh, udongo was one councilas well as there was a few
others that ran this programwhere, yeah, they just opened up
a six month residency forpublic artists to paint in
(27:01):
spaces.
So when I I got to Odongo,there was also like a new
videographer and there was likean accountant and just standard
jobs within the council.
But then, like, my role wasvery odd and they popped that up
.
But, yeah, I went through anexpression of interest process
and I continue to do those allthe time as well.
(27:24):
Like I said, I'm in here everyday and if one day I don't have
ideas or a commission or it'sslow for a little bit, I'll plug
back in and have a look.
I think a really awesomewebsite for artists of all
different backgrounds would beArts Hub.
Amra Pajalic (27:41):
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (27:42):
Yeah, it's got a lot of different opportunities
grants, um, yeah, a lot.
Amra Pajalic (27:46):
So I always sort of plug back into there and a
few different streams, seewhat's going on and maybe put
together an expression ofinterest there's no one, that
the more that you do it, themore it becomes routine in a
certain way, and that you haveall these assets and all this
information that you can packageup for these different things.
Lukas Kasper (28:06):
Yeah, like it forces you to do things like
update your CV.
Amra Pajalic (28:09):
Yes, we're never doing this unless we've got this
thing.
No way.
Lukas Kasper (28:12):
I'm not just going to like, it's like the worst.
I hate doing that so much.
So sometimes, when you'reapplying for something and it's
important, you're like okay, thelast thing that's written on my
CV you can't say like 2024.
It has to at least say thisyear, mine does.
Amra Pajalic (28:27):
I need to update mine.
Lukas Kasper (28:28):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (28:29):
Like, yeah, that's the thing, it is a workload and
also sometimes deadlines.
When there's things that I wantto do and I know that they're
coming up, like I start keepingan eye on, I'll put the
deadlines in my calendar whereit's like, okay, this is the
thing.
So it becomes like a work thingand a friend of mine she's like
you know you've got to be in it.
If you don't ask, it's nevergoing to happen.
(28:53):
And this is the thing If youdon't put yourself in there and
you don't try, you never knowwhat's going to happen.
And look at you like, if you'vebuilt up those networks and all
of those opportunities and Imean I just also wanted to
highlight you're one of the fewpeople that I know who is
actually a full-time workingartist, and this is you actually
(29:13):
living off your art.
So all of these differentstreams that you're doing are so
important also from thatperspective.
Lukas Kasper (29:20):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (29:21):
That hustle and always having something going on
.
Lukas Kasper (29:24):
Yeah, it's a hustle, it's like the hardest.
The hardest thing I've everdone is being an artist and
before this I've worked in everytype of job from uh yeah, like
roofing and concreting and um,construction, landscaping.
I was a piece of delivery boy,I was a dog groomer.
I was like I've done, I wasgrocery shop, all that stuff
(29:46):
like, especially the hardworking you know hard yards in
queensland sweating in the heatand you'd think that would be
harder than being an artist, butit's, it doesn't even touch it
yeah like the mental strain,always having to have ideas,
always having to build and bebetter next painting, be better
and the pressure you have onyourself and being completely
reliant financially on what youproduce is a lot of pressure.
(30:11):
And so it's like this, mentaland physical, and the time it
takes to do it, it's um, it's,it's a lot yeah, and that we
don't talk enough about that dowe yeah you know, like we all
have this dream of I want to befull-time, this is what I want
to do full-time.
Amra Pajalic (30:29):
but when you like, I've only had very brief
moments where I've I've done it.
Um, I've always had sort of thesecure income and during those
brief moments when that's beeneverything, it is so much more
Like every no just feels alittle bit harder.
I don't know, you're just somuch more raw on a daily basis
(30:52):
because it is so much moreimportant, whereas now I work as
a teacher and then you knowI've got the sign hustle and I'm
like, oh all good, I'm fine,it's easy.
And so I have that fantasy, butit's good to really be aware of
.
You know what it means.
Like it does come with a wholeother aspect to it.
Lukas Kasper (31:12):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (31:13):
You know everyone dreams about the time to just
create, but you've got to makemoney from it.
Lukas Kasper (31:18):
Yeah, To pay the bills, and that's the thing too.
It's like it isn't foreverybody like being doing it as
like a full-time practice.
Yeah, I've met a lot of artiststhat have like done that and
then been like, no, I need to.
Just even if they have a studioat home and they're just there
every day and they just go alittle bit crazy, you know, they
might just pick up a job thatthey do like one day a week,
(31:40):
even if it just is for like themental stability.
Yes, it's a grind.
Just pursuing like a creativeendeavor full time, I think it
can be.
Yeah, it can really play withyou in a negative way if you're
not smart with how you approachit.
Amra Pajalic (32:00):
Yeah, I'm starting to get to a point in my life
where I'm like I can face thehard truths and I don't.
I'm starting to get to a pointin my life where I'm like I can
face the hard truths and I don'tthink I've got it in me.
I don't think I want to.
You know that is a lot ofstrain.
Lukas Kasper (32:14):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (32:15):
And, yeah, like I dream about the time, but the
other part of it it's like, oh,I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm goingto deal with that.
If I could have the time, if Iwon the lottery, yeah, that
would work.
Yeah, you know.
So I do play every week, everyweek, nice.
So just last question whatadvice would you give to someone
(32:36):
who's sort of doing what you'redoing, you know, pivoting from
street art into moreprofessional or commercial, and
you know what mindset or actionshave made the difference for
you and might help them?
Lukas Kasper (32:49):
I think motivation is going to be the biggest
thing for anybody.
It doesn't matter how talentedyou are.
I've met so many painters,drawers, you know, creatives
that are incredible at what theydo, like absolutely incredible
but maybe they don't have themotivation or they don't want to
build a website.
Maybe they don't have themotivation or they don't want to
build a website or they don'twant to do those things that are
going to get them to that nextlevel.
(33:10):
So, like, motivation is goingto be huge for you.
I know a lot of artists, likethey have a lot of
self-deprecation, but with mesaying this, like I was a
terrible artist for a long timeand it was just that motivation
of doing it every day.
I got better.
Now I do it as a full-timeliving I have for quite a long
(33:33):
time, so I think I reallyrealize how motivation is huge
within it.
So, if you love it, you want todo it every day.
Make sure you do that, even ifyou have, like you know, a job,
which I did for many, many yearstoo.
Um, another one I think isreally big for pushing your
practice far in a much quickerway is to maybe like reach out
(33:57):
to other artists that are doingwhat you want to do.
You don't have to ask like umsort of a boring question like
how did you get to where you are?
Like.
You can even just ask if youcan.
Uh, like, if you're in thepainting world, you could ask if
they're, if they're aroundpublic and painting, can you
come or can you?
You know, interact, justinteract with people, and it's
(34:19):
incredible how much um momentumthat can give you.
It's that's how you findyourself in the right places.
A lot of people I mean withinthe art standard saying is like
it's not what you know, it's whoyou know, and that is, a lot of
times, very true.
Amra Pajalic (34:37):
Yeah, but it's also about building those
genuine networks.
I sometimes find people thinkthat they could just sort of
randomly pop in, but it's likeyou've actually got to build
that genuine connection and, asyou say, if they come and
they're interacting with youwhile you're painting, while
you're doing your practice, thenthey're showing interest.
You've got that, you knowconnection.
But sometimes it's like whenpeople are just sort of
(34:59):
contacting you and wantingthings and it's like, well,
create that.
You know those moments.
Lukas Kasper (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, like it has to be, like a genuine
connection.
Amra Pajalic (35:10):
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (35:11):
Yeah, like if I had a young kid that was 15 or
whatever that wanted to come andpaint and sent me a message and
say Instagram, I'd probablymessage you back when I'm going
to a laneway and we might paintand like for me.
It took me so long to learn thebasics.
Instagram, I probably messageyou back when I'm going to a
laneway and we might paint andlike for me.
It took me so long to learn thebasics of how all this stuff
even works.
But you know, within a30-minute conversation with an
(35:34):
established artist, I probablywould have learned like 10 years
of experience just to be there.
So I think communication, andespecially where we are today
with social media, it's so easyto reach out to people and it's
not like back in the day, whereyou know people that are
established are these hugefigures that you could never
(35:54):
talk to.
They never message back, likeartists that you might
appreciate might message youback.
They might not, who knows, butif they do, it could lead to
anything.
Amra Pajalic (36:05):
Yeah, and you know , I do love that part of social
media, how you create all thesenetworks and connections with
people, and sometimes I think,have I actually met them in real
life?
Because online we've kind ofgot that rapport.
I'm like I don't think I'veactually met them, but online
there's all of those thingshappening, so it's really
wonderful.
(36:25):
Well, I want to thank you somuch for joining me for this
interview and thank you forbeing so generous and having so
much to share.
Of course, that's beenwonderful, thanks for having me.
Lukas Kasper (36:36):
You caught me on a day where I'm just next door.
Amra Pajalic (36:40):
Yes, well, this is the thing we have the joy we
are right next door to eachother and, yes, he's figured out
how to help me with my camera,because that has been a very
interesting journey.
You should have seen me a fewweeks ago, me and my husband
trying to figure out themicrophone on this camera.
We were like that do, do, do,do, do, do Monkeys, not knowing
(37:00):
what we're doing.
Well, thank you, Lukas.
Lukas Kasper (37:03):
I appreciate it.
Amra Pajalic (37:04):
So join me next time at Amra's Armchair
Anecdotes.
Thank you for tuning intoAmra's Armchair Anecdotes.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
follow for more insights,stories and inspiration from my
armchair to yours.
Remember, every story beginswith a single word.
Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes.
I'm Amra Pajalic, writer,teacher and storyteller.
Pull up a chair and let's diveinto stories about writing life
and lessons learned, sharingwisdom from my armchair to yours
.
You can find the episode shownotes, your free episode
(00:22):
handouts and my how-to guides atamrahpayalichcom slash podcast.
And now it's time to dive in.
Welcome to Amra's ArmchairAnecdotes.
Today's guest isMelbourne-based artist, Lukas
Kasper.
He began his art in 2009 andhe's inspired by street art,
(00:43):
graffiti and skateboardingculture.
He's best known for large-scalemurals and public art projects.
He blends bold line work,adaptive color palettes and his
love of native flora and fauna,which look amazing.
His work often explores themesof mental health, environmental
(01:03):
awareness and our relationshipwith animals.
He's painted walls andexhibited his work across
Australia, North America andSoutheast Asia, and includes art
residencies and brandcollaborations and
community-focused workshops, andhave shaped his transition in
his practice over time.
(01:24):
Welcome, Lukas.
Lukas Kasper (01:25):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Amra Pajalic (01:27):
And well, Lukas is also an artist in residence
here at the Hunt Club, so we'vegotten to know each other
through that, and so I'm sograteful that he has agreed to
come on the podcast and he'salso been helping me with the
technical aspects, Trying to asmuch as I know.
It has been a big learningcurve for me.
So your beginnings are sort ofrooted in graffiti and street
(01:54):
art and then you sort of shiftedinto gallery exhibitions and
commissioned mural projects.
Can you talk a bit through that?
Lukas Kasper (02:02):
Yeah, well, I first started painting, yeah,
just through, just throughgraffiti, just being a little
kid figuring myself out andskateboarding, and you know, I
found like a little communitywithin that graffiti type of
realm and a sense of likeadulation in a in a weird way,
because you know you'd see yourstuff out in public and you're
like I did that and you'rerunning around at night like a
(02:22):
little ninja painting and it'sunderstandable why.
Um, well, I could definitelyunderstand why people become
addicted to graffiti.
At like, a younger age tends tobe like a topic of discussion
with a lot of people where theysay to mural artists when you're
painting, like I love thisstuff, but I hate that tagging,
which I can understand too, likeit makes sense, but in those I
(02:45):
definitely flashed back to beinga kid and realizing how it can,
like, completely captivate you.
So, yeah, that's how I started,became addicted to painting
graffiti and then I got in a bitof trouble here and there in
Queensland yeah with, yeah,graffiti.
Amra Pajalic (03:05):
Yeah, because I mean it is art.
But then there's also thatelement of public spaces or even
private spaces where it's beingdone.
Lukas Kasper (03:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's understandable why there's laws
and stuff behind all of it,otherwise the place would be
running rampant with graffitieverywhere.
But, yeah, yeah, at that point,like I was also at a younger
age I I used to, because I grewup in queensland I used to skate
around the city when I was likereally young, and I would drop
(03:36):
into every cafe and bar and anyplace that would possibly hang
artwork and I just asked, likeyou know, do you have walls that
I can facilitate a show in?
that's amazing yeah, suchinitiative so, yeah, it was just
grassroots like, especially inQueensland at that time, like
you know, many years ago now,there wasn't many gallery spaces
(03:56):
that was like accessible tolike a young kid that only knew
graffiti and knew nothing aboutthe art world.
So that's how I got my foot inthe door.
It's just showing through thosespaces.
Um, because, you know, whileI'm at home I was still painting
on canvases.
Some were graffiti looking,some had characters that you
know, all different types ofwork.
I mostly painted them on thingsI'd find at op shops, so like
(04:20):
recycled frames and canvases and, yeah, put on shows.
I started curating spaces inthe city, like at bars.
There's this one bar inQueensland called Brew, it's
like this really rad space and Iused to do rotating shows once
a month there and just sort offigured out what the gallery
(04:41):
world sort of you know, lookedlike to me.
So, yeah, I started showing,started painting more
professionally and it just sortof naturally progressed.
Amra Pajalic (04:51):
Yeah, I remember talking to you when you got a
commission for something and youwere like people are surprised
that you can do that Like youare an artist, you know you do
art like graffiti.
Art is one part of it, butthere's all this other, you know
, just in terms of the mediumsthat you use and the different
(05:12):
ways that you experiment, andsometimes that's a bit of a
shame, where you know people geta little bit pigeonholed and
you've managed to, I think, getout of that and do all these
different things.
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (05:24):
I tend to be like a jam of all trades with that
type of stuff.
I mean, literally I'm out inthe balcony right now in the
studio cutting up things tocreate A-frames for, like, live
painting events and all that.
So I'm always doing somethingdifferent and I think my style
is similar in that way where Ican vary from one thing to the
next.
Like as a public artist, youtend to have to fit the
(05:46):
aesthetic of like where you'repainting.
Like I painted in a park forBrinkbank City Council not too
long ago and you know I lookedaround and there was beautiful
swans and ducks and all this.
So it was first thing that cameto mind was doing, you know,
some beautiful realism mixedwith my style, because, yeah,
(06:06):
it's not every setting that theywould want some sort of
graffiti-ish.
You know, street art styling.
Like even myself, like growingup I mostly just painted
monsters, these littlecharacters.
And even for me, like I don'twant a big one painted in my
bedroom, you know, along thewall I look at it every day.
I think it would be quiteintimidating.
(06:27):
But that out in, you know,melbourne laneway is like
perfect, like it fits.
It's sort of raw, it's gritty.
So over time, like being apublic artist.
Having to answer briefs andlooking at spaces and
approaching them correctly hasmade me like vary my style a bit
and be able to paint a lot ofdifferent things well, just I
(06:48):
want to pick that up because youknow that's one of the things
when you are that, that artistand you're wanting to get those
gigs and stuff.
Amra Pajalic (06:54):
It is about being able to interpret and be able to
work with people, but thenthere's that aspect of being an
artist and your vision and stuff.
How do you navigate those two?
Lukas Kasper (07:03):
things.
There's many challenges alongthe way, it's hard.
It's hard.
That's like riding that thinline is like the most
challenging thing.
Like I'm, you know, I couldreally appreciate artists that
like they have one style, that'swhat they paint and they paint
that everywhere.
People recognize them as that.
I think that's awesome If youcan you, you know push one
(07:26):
visual aesthetic and have itappreciated to the point where
you can just do thatconsistently.
That's amazing.
Um, but yeah, for me, I guessthe first thing that came to
mind was like monsters and someof these like creepy looking
things.
So I really had to vary out,and it puts me in moments where
I have to answer a brief.
That can be really challenging,but you just push through it.
(07:50):
I've had jobs that they looklike they're it's like a good
payday, it's going to treat mewell, it's a good spot and all
this.
But it's like the first two orthree days I'm looking at it,
I'm like I have nothing for this, but I always manage to get
over the other side.
And what's odd, too, is thoseare the jobs.
They're usually the ones I lookat the end and I go.
(08:12):
I'm like super proud of it.
Amra Pajalic (08:14):
So it's that inspiration versus perspiration.
Lukas Kasper (08:17):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (08:18):
Like, you know, do you do things just when you're
inspired.
But you have to actually likeif you're going to be, you know,
a working artist, a workingwriter, you have to be doing it
even when you're not feeling it.
In the moment you have to findit regardless.
Lukas Kasper (08:32):
Yeah, and that's why I'm here Like I'm in the
studio pretty much every day.
I'm not painting outside, I'mpainting or like making
something in here, like I alwaysjust sort of force myself.
Sometimes I come in here andsit in my seat and like look at
the wall for like two hours,nothing.
But at least I'm here and yeah,it keeps me motivated it
doesn't work.
Amra Pajalic (08:51):
You're kind of like okay, this is it.
Something starts percolatingbecause we don't have the tv.
Like if we're at home and we'vegot the tv, we're like, oh,
let's turn on the tv.
But we're here and doesn'tmatter how tired I am, I still
get some, some work done.
Lukas Kasper (09:03):
Yeah, yeah, and there's, like you know, I've got
two kittens at home and they'revery distracting.
Yes, yeah.
Amra Pajalic (09:10):
I think there's so much more.
Yeah, so I think we've touchedon some of these things.
You described that your monstertheme line work was a
therapeutic outlet and nowyou've sort of shifted towards
mental health, animals andenvironmental themes.
So can you sort of talk throughthat evolution?
Lukas Kasper (09:33):
Yeah, I think the monster theme all started up
more like subconsciously.
There was not really anintention in my mind as to the
reason why I was painting them,but I sort of figured out.
It was like a natural thing.
It was almost like a mandalayou draw the center and you
shape out and shape out andshape out, and it's quite a
therapeutic process.
(09:53):
It's how I used to approach themonsters.
I'd do two eyes and I'd justwork my way out, fill them in,
line them up, and it was justthis.
Arts always put me in the placewhere the negative thoughts just
vanish.
Um, line them up, and it wasjust this.
Uh, you know, art's always putme in the place where the you
know, the negative thoughts justvanish, and that's I.
I realized, like, as I got youknow older, um, that's what I
(10:13):
was using it for.
But, um, you know, over timeyou know you become a bit more
mature and you sort of realizethat maybe you want to make some
type of statement or uh, put aspecific visual into that.
So that mesh that you know mademe uh, start implementing in
different things, like usingthose same methods, but maybe
(10:36):
painting an animal or putting in, you know, putting an animal
into it or different types ofvisuals like implementing in.
So I guess yeah, it juststarted as monsters and now
that'll be in pretty mucheverything I ever paint.
You'll see that form of thatpractice.
But I guess it holds moreintent rather than just being a
(10:58):
thing.
I don't really know why I'mdoing it, but I'm just doing it.
Amra Pajalic (11:01):
And that's the fascinating thing about being an
artist there's always thissubconscious element to it.
And then people are asking youquestions and you're like, all
right, I'll try, and you know,package it.
But at the end of the daythere's a lot of that work, that
cognitive work, that happensthere yeah, it can be a weird
thing, like it's, especiallybeing in like the public space.
Lukas Kasper (11:20):
you know people ask you questions like what is
yes, and like you don't have ananswer.
Amra Pajalic (11:24):
Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, Sometimes when people
are in my work and they're like, oh, you know, they said that,
and I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah,yeah, absolutely yeah, I don't
know.
Yeah, but yeah, you're kind ofthere's so much of us on that.
So you've had involvement inschool murals and community art,
creative workshops.
(11:45):
So how has that community-basedart evolved?
And, you know, how have yougotten into that?
Lukas Kasper (11:53):
Well, I was your typical like disengaged kid in
school.
So I can definitely, you know Ican relate to a lot of young
people that are going throughsimilar things.
So I just really naturallyfound myself in situations where
a school wanted to interact anddo a workshop or do a mural or
(12:15):
do whatever it is, and I tend topitch the idea of like working
with the kids.
So it's actually strange, likethe first place I ever taught I
was probably 17, I think and itwas for a place called oh god,
what's it called?
Oh yeah, it was for a placecalled noffs and it was
(12:35):
n-o-f-f-s and they ran a programfor the street university.
I walked into this building oneday because out the front there
was a a-frame it says, likegraffiti artists want it.
Amra Pajalic (12:45):
I was like, oh yeah, I was like you don't see
that every day we're looking foryou yeah.
Lukas Kasper (12:49):
So I walked in and um started painting.
Like they gave me a bunch ofpaint.
I painted the wall and saidcome back next week and bring
your AVN.
And I was like, yeah, cool,cool.
I had no idea what an AVN was.
So I went home, signed up for asole trader AVN.
That's how I got my first paidjobs.
And I came back and they werelike, yeah, you have a job,
(13:17):
you're going to come back hereonce a week and you're going to
run like art workshops graffitiart workshops with the young
people.
So I became a facilitator andthe age demo that was working
with I was working with peoplethat were, you know, 10 years
older than me.
So I was just like this kiddidn't know how to teach, didn't
know what to do, but you know,they're a really cool place
where they realize that thepeople that should be teaching
this stuff are the people thatare part of that world.
(13:38):
So I might have been younger,but that was my entire life.
So I was in the right spot.
I wasn't mature enough to teach.
A lot of things stumped me, itwas crazy.
Amra Pajalic (13:50):
Yeah, teaching is a.
Lukas Kasper (13:52):
Yeah, so at a very young age I was just thrown
into it with that and then Ithink every sort of teaching
workshop type of situation sincehas been, uh, easier than what
that was.
So, yeah, I got thrown in thedeep end and ever since, um,
yeah, I just work with youngpeople and schools and stuff all
(14:12):
the time and I just love it.
Amra Pajalic (14:14):
Yeah, and even now you're, in a sense, um, your
youtube channel is very muchfocused on that teaching side of
it, where it's about showingtechniques and showing all these
different things.
So it says that's now become apart of your um, what would it
call your tool, your toolbox?
Lukas Kasper (14:32):
yeah, yeah, and that's a big reason why I did.
That is because I know a lot ofkids don't have, say, the money
to book like a workshop or youknow, and it's a rare thing.
If an artist comes to yourschool and you know you are that
young person that wants tolearn and all that it, you know
it can be a rare thing.
So for those kids that you knowthey don't have the money or
(14:55):
they don't have the opportunity,or maybe they're even in a
place around the world wherestreet art or graffiti isn't
like an accepted thing, likehere in melbourne, they can at
least go onto youtube and watchlike heaps and heaps of videos
and how to do it.
Amra Pajalic (15:08):
So yeah, and there is like we sort of make out
sometimes, like you know, therehas to be a way of learning and
the gatekeeping part of someindustries like my industry also
in terms of writing but at theend of the day, like there is an
element of you have a gift andyou have a talent and it's
something that you enjoy doing,and there's certain things that
(15:28):
can be taught within that scope.
But then there's certain thingswhere it's just like you like
it, you do it, it, you enjoy itand it's just creating those
opportunities sometimes.
Lukas Kasper (15:39):
Yeah, and accessing information around
spray paint and all these things.
It's like a really tricky thing.
You can't really go to schoolto be an artist and play with
mediums, but with the stuff thatI use, even if I spoke to art
students, they probably wouldn'tknow what the caps are, the
cans and all that stuff.
So it's I don't know.
I just saw a void where, like,a lot of people were in the dark
(16:02):
and I decided to change that.
Amra Pajalic (16:04):
Yeah, and you're doing really well with your
YouTube channel, so it's reallybuilding an audience, and
showing that niche is somethingthat you found that does need to
be filled.
There is a need for it, whichis just so heartening.
Hopefully, have you had anyfeedback from any people that
have sort of been?
Lukas Kasper (16:21):
doing it.
Yeah, heaps.
Yeah.
It's been interesting seeing alot of people go from, because
if people are communicating,it's mostly on Instagram or
they'll start following me thereand they send me like a big
message and yeah, I've had heaps, it's really yeah, yeah, it's
really paying off.
A lot of people are saying howmuch it's helped them and all
this and the tutorial stuff hasdefinitely been the stuff that's
(16:45):
like blown up my channel wellas an aspiring youtube.
Amra Pajalic (16:51):
You know, I look at you and I'm like, oh, but you
, you're really um doing thework with it in terms of the
ideas and generating andrecording every week and
developing that content anddoing the themes in terms of,
you know, building these videosso that they're beautifully
cohesive and sort of doing thatsupport.
(17:13):
So, yeah, there's a lot of workbehind the scenes that goes
into it.
Lukas Kasper (17:18):
It takes away from my painting time.
I spend more time editing thevideo than I do painting
whatever artwork that I'm doing.
So, tutorials are a bit easierbecause you talk for a little
while and you know that can be aminute.
But a minute worth of like apainting edit takes, you know,
five hours to edit.
Yes, because you're actuallydoing it, and then you're having
(17:38):
to like shorten it, yeah, andthen slow-mo, and then this yeah
, it's a lot of work.
Amra Pajalic (17:45):
Is it leading, though, to more opportunities in
terms of people seeing you whomight not have seen you before,
and getting more work in thatway, too?
Lukas Kasper (17:52):
I think so.
I don't know how much it'stranslating to projects coming
through.
It's hard to say, even withbrand collaborations.
If they see you have a YouTubechannel and there's 10,000
people that are watching you andyou have a bit of a following,
that stuff can really help youin those ways, in small ways.
You might not even hear fromthem.
(18:13):
This is the reason why we wereattracted, like attracted to you
as an artist, so in that way itcan help.
I don't know how many likecouncils with budgets and stuff
are seeing those videos, but allin all, I also don't care too
much about like that side ofthings, like I really find a
(18:34):
strong level of connection tolike just documenting, having
video and they can look back onand like in many, many years
from now and like 40 years ifYouTube's still a thing and it's
not Monday, yes, I'm sort ofthinking in that way of I can't
wait to look back when I'm, youknow, 60 years old, at videos
(18:55):
when I was like a 28-year-oldkid I love that, yeah.
So it's like I'm collecting,like my memory is horrible too,
so it's like I'm collectingthese little pieces and so I
just get a kick out of justdocumenting.
I really love it.
Amra Pajalic (19:09):
I love that.
That's a really great way ofthinking about it.
Yeah, Because you know, I havethese moments also where it's
like why am I doing things andwhat am I doing?
But my philosophy is justcreate things and put them out
there and see it.
But that's an even betterphilosophy where it's like
you're documenting for yourselfand then anything else gravy,
(19:32):
yeah, it's just beautiful gravy,oh that's awesome.
Well, you talked about your um,that you have been working with
brands, so you worked with likeamazon, australia and doritos um
.
So you know what was there likewith like that transition into
commercial work and artisticprinciples and you know melding
(19:52):
those two uh, like every everycollaboration is different
depending on who you're speakingto.
Lukas Kasper (19:57):
I think the hardest thing I found is when
you work with big brands, youdon't work with them, you work
with the people that are betweenthem.
So it's this weird chain effectthing where a lot of creative
ideas can get watered down veryquickly because if you're
speaking to one team and thenthey speak to a team, and then
they speak, and it keeps goingup the ladder.
By the time it comes back downthe ladder you're like this.
(20:19):
You know, it's interesting howyou, when you first get
approached, you feel likespecial, like I'm leading this
thing, but then, as time goes on, you realize you're just like a
cog in the wheel.
You know which it's I mean.
But not every partnership feelsthat way.
Amra Pajalic (20:34):
Yeah, yeah which it's I mean, but not every
partnership feels that way.
Lukas Kasper (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, but some places it's more creatively
driven, some are not.
I think if a brand comes to me,they probably know what to
expect, but, like I said, withso many you know, with so many
people along the way, it canoften be misunderstood a little
bit.
So it's a real challenge tolike create a product that is,
(20:58):
or like to be a part of aproject that remains your style
and your vision and everythingalong the way.
Amra Pajalic (21:06):
Yeah, again, going back to that versus commerce,
and when you're making art forpeople and they're paying you
for it.
Because I'm of the view as awriter, I've reached this point
now where, if people want to,you know, buy a piece of writing
I don't care what it is theysuggest, I'm like accept, accept
, accept, I'm not precious.
(21:27):
But I also haven't been in aposition where I've had to
compromise.
You know where I'm like oh, I'mnot sure about that.
I'm like, no, that's fine.
Yeah.
Compromise you know where I'mlike oh, I'm not sure about that
.
I'm like, no, that's fine.
Yeah, but it is always that linethat you walk, where you know
you are working for someone andjust trying to see that big
(21:49):
vision in terms of that end andthat document, as you're talking
about, in terms of this is whatyou did, this is what you're a
part of.
Yeah, I remember buying.
I went to 7-Eleven and I boughtthe Doritos, and I don't eat
Doritos, but I did eat them justbecause I wanted to see it.
Yeah, because I'm like this isso cool.
I just want to be a part ofthis where I know someone who
did this.
Lukas Kasper (22:06):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (22:06):
Which is really fabulous.
Now you've done residenciesacross the world and I think he
just came back from it.
Yeah, yeah, just came back frommongolia and china.
Yeah, that's crazy tell meabout that.
Lukas Kasper (22:20):
Um, I went over to mongolia to paint in a thing
called playtime festival andthat is a it's like a music
festival but they set up wallsaround the location.
It's in a place called umulaanbaatar, which is a like a
main city in mongolia, and, yeah, painted in the festival.
That was four days and then Iwent on like a little outback
(22:41):
trip to check out mongolia toget inspiration for future
paintings.
But I decided I wanted to makemore of a trip out of it.
So I um booked like a trainfrom mongolia to like inner
molia, just on the Chineseborder, and then from there to
Beijing.
I just wanted to spend a monthtrying to find walls, find
(23:02):
opportunities, just to get mystuff up internationally and
meet artists and get inspiration.
So it was one month of justchaos and living out of a
backpack and getting you knowelectric bikes where we to get
here and there and paint andtrying to get permission.
So it was just one month of acrazy adventure.
(23:23):
That's amazing, yeah, and it'ssuper important to do that stuff
.
It's incredible how much youget out of it, even
subconsciously, going forward.
I feel like, since I come back,my battery just feels like
recharged with inspiration andideas.
There's way more things I wantto do and yeah, I do that all
(23:44):
the time.
I did that in Bali, I did thatin Canada.
I just fly over places and tryto figure it out.
Amra Pajalic (23:54):
Love it.
I just love it, and that's thething isn, isn't it?
I've got to take those risksyeah you've got to just put
yourself out there and it'sabout living life and
contributing.
Um, yeah, you're giving meideas.
There's planting a lot of ideasnow.
Um, so, looking back, what wasthe biggest pivot moment of your
(24:14):
career?
Could you like pinpoint onetransition, do you think?
Lukas Kasper (24:18):
um a pivot, to like chat, like changing my
approach.
Amra Pajalic (24:23):
Yeah, it was something like a big change,
where you transition down onething to another where you're
like oh, that was a.
I mean I guess a little bit.
You've already talked about theteaching yeah or a figure
that's 17 years old and how thatum really kind of changed in
getting this skill set.
Lukas Kasper (24:38):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (24:39):
Is there anything else?
Lukas Kasper (24:40):
I think.
Well, there was one like majorproject that I did that I
learned a lot from and I sort ofput my artwork on the larger
scale, I think, which was inWodonga, albury, wodonga, right
on the New South Wales borderbetween Victoria, new South
Wales, a town called Wodonga,albury, wodonga, right on the
New South Wales border betweenVictoria and New South Wales, a
town called Wodonga, and I wentthere for a six-month artist
(25:03):
residency, I guess you'd call it, where I worked for the council
full-time.
I got a budget for paint whichwas insane and, yeah, got my own
little rental van and wentaround.
My mission was just to paintwalls for six months.
So during that period I thinkLike I already took my work very
seriously and all that.
(25:24):
But I think it's almost like,when I look back, I think of my
practice before Wodonga andafter Wodonga, almost like it
was like that level and up pointand it really pushed me to like
a next level, I think I think Igot taken a little bit more
seriously.
I wasn't just a you know guypainting in laneways and
(25:47):
occasionally getting commissions.
I was doing these large, grandartworks that are now held in
their art collection and it wasa big thing, so that was a huge
opportunity.
I think that pivoted me.
It was in the perfect timewhere I was ready to move out of
a big cold warehouse likecommunal space to my own spot
(26:09):
like this.
And, yeah, I think that when Ithink about a pivoting moment, I
probably think back to that.
It's almost like my directionchanged completely after that
project.
Amra Pajalic (26:21):
Were you applying for that?
Because that's something thatwe've talked about, where you're
always kind of looking foropportunities and applying for
grants and applying forresidencies, and that's a big
part of this life that we live.
So can you talk about that,like, how have you learned to do
that?
What are the things you'velearned through that?
Lukas Kasper (26:40):
Yeah, so that was an application and it was over
COVID.
Oh, yes, yeah, through that.
Yeah, so that was applicationand it was over covid.
So, yeah, so there's all thesedifferent little funding streams
, activations and things likethat.
So, uh, udongo was one councilas well as there was a few
others that ran this programwhere, yeah, they just opened up
a six month residency forpublic artists to paint in
(27:01):
spaces.
So when I I got to Odongo,there was also like a new
videographer and there was likean accountant and just standard
jobs within the council.
But then, like, my role wasvery odd and they popped that up
.
But, yeah, I went through anexpression of interest process
and I continue to do those allthe time as well.
(27:24):
Like I said, I'm in here everyday and if one day I don't have
ideas or a commission or it'sslow for a little bit, I'll plug
back in and have a look.
I think a really awesomewebsite for artists of all
different backgrounds would beArts Hub.
Amra Pajalic (27:41):
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (27:42):
Yeah, it's got a lot of different opportunities
grants, um, yeah, a lot.
Amra Pajalic (27:46):
So I always sort of plug back into there and a
few different streams, seewhat's going on and maybe put
together an expression ofinterest there's no one, that
the more that you do it, themore it becomes routine in a
certain way, and that you haveall these assets and all this
information that you can packageup for these different things.
Lukas Kasper (28:06):
Yeah, like it forces you to do things like
update your CV.
Amra Pajalic (28:09):
Yes, we're never doing this unless we've got this
thing.
No way.
Lukas Kasper (28:12):
I'm not just going to like, it's like the worst.
I hate doing that so much.
So sometimes, when you'reapplying for something and it's
important, you're like okay, thelast thing that's written on my
CV you can't say like 2024.
It has to at least say thisyear, mine does.
Amra Pajalic (28:27):
I need to update mine.
Lukas Kasper (28:28):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (28:29):
Like, yeah, that's the thing, it is a workload and
also sometimes deadlines.
When there's things that I wantto do and I know that they're
coming up, like I start keepingan eye on, I'll put the
deadlines in my calendar whereit's like, okay, this is the
thing.
So it becomes like a work thingand a friend of mine she's like
you know you've got to be in it.
If you don't ask, it's nevergoing to happen.
(28:53):
And this is the thing If youdon't put yourself in there and
you don't try, you never knowwhat's going to happen.
And look at you like, if you'vebuilt up those networks and all
of those opportunities and Imean I just also wanted to
highlight you're one of the fewpeople that I know who is
actually a full-time workingartist, and this is you actually
(29:13):
living off your art.
So all of these differentstreams that you're doing are so
important also from thatperspective.
Lukas Kasper (29:20):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (29:21):
That hustle and always having something going on
.
Lukas Kasper (29:24):
Yeah, it's a hustle, it's like the hardest.
The hardest thing I've everdone is being an artist and
before this I've worked in everytype of job from uh yeah, like
roofing and concreting and um,construction, landscaping.
I was a piece of delivery boy,I was a dog groomer.
I was like I've done, I wasgrocery shop, all that stuff
(29:46):
like, especially the hardworking you know hard yards in
queensland sweating in the heatand you'd think that would be
harder than being an artist, butit's, it doesn't even touch it
yeah like the mental strain,always having to have ideas,
always having to build and bebetter next painting, be better
and the pressure you have onyourself and being completely
reliant financially on what youproduce is a lot of pressure.
(30:11):
And so it's like this, mentaland physical, and the time it
takes to do it, it's um, it's,it's a lot yeah, and that we
don't talk enough about that dowe yeah you know, like we all
have this dream of I want to befull-time, this is what I want
to do full-time.
Amra Pajalic (30:29):
but when you like, I've only had very brief
moments where I've I've done it.
Um, I've always had sort of thesecure income and during those
brief moments when that's beeneverything, it is so much more
Like every no just feels alittle bit harder.
I don't know, you're just somuch more raw on a daily basis
(30:52):
because it is so much moreimportant, whereas now I work as
a teacher and then you knowI've got the sign hustle and I'm
like, oh all good, I'm fine,it's easy.
And so I have that fantasy, butit's good to really be aware of
.
You know what it means.
Like it does come with a wholeother aspect to it.
Lukas Kasper (31:12):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (31:13):
You know everyone dreams about the time to just
create, but you've got to makemoney from it.
Lukas Kasper (31:18):
Yeah, To pay the bills, and that's the thing too.
It's like it isn't foreverybody like being doing it as
like a full-time practice.
Yeah, I've met a lot of artiststhat have like done that and
then been like, no, I need to.
Just even if they have a studioat home and they're just there
every day and they just go alittle bit crazy, you know, they
might just pick up a job thatthey do like one day a week,
(31:40):
even if it just is for like themental stability.
Yes, it's a grind.
Just pursuing like a creativeendeavor full time, I think it
can be.
Yeah, it can really play withyou in a negative way if you're
not smart with how you approachit.
Amra Pajalic (32:00):
Yeah, I'm starting to get to a point in my life
where I'm like I can face thehard truths and I don't.
I'm starting to get to a pointin my life where I'm like I can
face the hard truths and I don'tthink I've got it in me.
I don't think I want to.
You know that is a lot ofstrain.
Lukas Kasper (32:14):
Yeah.
Amra Pajalic (32:15):
And, yeah, like I dream about the time, but the
other part of it it's like, oh,I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm goingto deal with that.
If I could have the time, if Iwon the lottery, yeah, that
would work.
Yeah, you know.
So I do play every week, everyweek, nice.
So just last question whatadvice would you give to someone
(32:36):
who's sort of doing what you'redoing, you know, pivoting from
street art into moreprofessional or commercial, and
you know what mindset or actionshave made the difference for
you and might help them?
Lukas Kasper (32:49):
I think motivation is going to be the biggest
thing for anybody.
It doesn't matter how talentedyou are.
I've met so many painters,drawers, you know, creatives
that are incredible at what theydo, like absolutely incredible
but maybe they don't have themotivation or they don't want to
build a website.
Maybe they don't have themotivation or they don't want to
build a website or they don'twant to do those things that are
going to get them to that nextlevel.
(33:10):
So, like, motivation is goingto be huge for you.
I know a lot of artists, likethey have a lot of
self-deprecation, but with mesaying this, like I was a
terrible artist for a long timeand it was just that motivation
of doing it every day.
I got better.
Now I do it as a full-timeliving I have for quite a long
(33:33):
time, so I think I reallyrealize how motivation is huge
within it.
So, if you love it, you want todo it every day.
Make sure you do that, even ifyou have, like you know, a job,
which I did for many, many yearstoo.
Um, another one I think isreally big for pushing your
practice far in a much quickerway is to maybe like reach out
(33:57):
to other artists that are doingwhat you want to do.
You don't have to ask like umsort of a boring question like
how did you get to where you are?
Like.
You can even just ask if youcan.
Uh, like, if you're in thepainting world, you could ask if
they're, if they're aroundpublic and painting, can you
come or can you?
You know, interact, justinteract with people, and it's
(34:19):
incredible how much um momentumthat can give you.
It's that's how you findyourself in the right places.
A lot of people I mean withinthe art standard saying is like
it's not what you know, it's whoyou know, and that is, a lot of
times, very true.
Amra Pajalic (34:37):
Yeah, but it's also about building those
genuine networks.
I sometimes find people thinkthat they could just sort of
randomly pop in, but it's likeyou've actually got to build
that genuine connection and, asyou say, if they come and
they're interacting with youwhile you're painting, while
you're doing your practice, thenthey're showing interest.
You've got that, you knowconnection.
But sometimes it's like whenpeople are just sort of
(34:59):
contacting you and wantingthings and it's like, well,
create that.
You know those moments.
Lukas Kasper (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, like it has to be, like a genuine
connection.
Amra Pajalic (35:10):
Yeah.
Lukas Kasper (35:11):
Yeah, like if I had a young kid that was 15 or
whatever that wanted to come andpaint and sent me a message and
say Instagram, I'd probablymessage you back when I'm going
to a laneway and we might paintand like for me.
It took me so long to learn thebasics.
Instagram, I probably messageyou back when I'm going to a
laneway and we might paint andlike for me.
It took me so long to learn thebasics of how all this stuff
even works.
But you know, within a30-minute conversation with an
(35:34):
established artist, I probablywould have learned like 10 years
of experience just to be there.
So I think communication, andespecially where we are today
with social media, it's so easyto reach out to people and it's
not like back in the day, whereyou know people that are
established are these hugefigures that you could never
(35:54):
talk to.
They never message back, likeartists that you might
appreciate might message youback.
They might not, who knows, butif they do, it could lead to
anything.
Amra Pajalic (36:05):
Yeah, and you know , I do love that part of social
media, how you create all thesenetworks and connections with
people, and sometimes I think,have I actually met them in real
life?
Because online we've kind ofgot that rapport.
I'm like I don't think I'veactually met them, but online
there's all of those thingshappening, so it's really
wonderful.
(36:25):
Well, I want to thank you somuch for joining me for this
interview and thank you forbeing so generous and having so
much to share.
Of course, that's beenwonderful, thanks for having me.
Lukas Kasper (36:36):
You caught me on a day where I'm just next door.
Amra Pajalic (36:40):
Yes, well, this is the thing we have the joy we
are right next door to eachother and, yes, he's figured out
how to help me with my camera,because that has been a very
interesting journey.
You should have seen me a fewweeks ago, me and my husband
trying to figure out themicrophone on this camera.
We were like that do, do, do,do, do, do Monkeys, not knowing
(37:00):
what we're doing.
Well, thank you, Lukas.
Lukas Kasper (37:03):
I appreciate it.
Amra Pajalic (37:04):
So join me next time at Amra's Armchair
Anecdotes.
Thank you for tuning intoAmra's Armchair Anecdotes.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
follow for more insights,stories and inspiration from my
armchair to yours.
Remember, every story beginswith a single word.
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