December 21, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode, Russel sits down with Tom Conlin of North Street to unpack how an unexpectedly narrow offer became a mechanism for opening doors, reducing stress, and creating better opportunities across the business.
Key Takeaways
- How a narrowly defined offer can become a powerful door-opener for bigger work
- What it really means to “see the machinery of the business” and why it changes decision-making
- The difference between being busy and being profitable
- How AI can increase leverage without devaluing expertise
Want a more clarity and control for your agency in 2026? An Agency Story has three coaching spots available for 2026. Let’s see if one of those spots is right for you. Visit AnAgencyStory.com and click “Let’s Talk.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Russel (01:16):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(01:38):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Tom Conlon with us heretoday with North Street, among
other things.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Tom.
All right.
Good to see you, Russell.
Great to see you.
Just kick us off right out thegate, tell us what North Street
(02:01):
does and who you do it for.
Tom (02:02):
Great.
Alright.
All right.
All right.
North Street's a branding andstrategy agency.
I've been running it for 15years now.
Um, we are mostly, uh, businesscorporate focused, so, you know,
we don't do e-commerce sites, wedon't do sneakers and stuff like
that.
Uh, we work on financialservices, brands, nonprofits.
And like professional servicesand most of our work is honestly
(02:25):
mid-market.
Um, but we've had some big nameclients, including the
Environmental Defense Fund islike a big nonprofit that we've
worked with.
That's a big household name.
We've got some.
Financial services, householdnames, but then, uh, last year
we, by a series of crazy rightplace, right time circumstances
(02:46):
wound up working on the KamalaHarris website, so, okay.
Very cool.
That is, and what we do, it's,we do brand strategy, just what
does this brand, who does itspeak to and what does it need
to say all the way down to likethe execution and optimization
of a website.
So, and everything in between.
Russel (03:04):
Love it.
I imagine it's some amazing workyou do there.
And, and go ahead and just tellus a little bit about the, and
other things that that you havegoing on in the business
process.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Tom (03:14):
So this year was interesting.
I mean, north Street's been,I've been doing it for 15 years
and in 2025 I launched two new,I'll call them brand extensions.
I mean, they are positioned ascompanies.
Uh, right now they're just notactually, um.
New separate business entities,but essentially it's my team and
these two new brands are just, alot of it is positioning, well,
(03:38):
one is just North Streetrepositioned and the other is
North Street taking our kind oftechnical know-how and turning
that into like a repeatablebusiness model instead of what
we are now as project based.
So like one of them is an agencythat is focused on very, very
fast website design anddevelopment.
Um, for a very specific nichesituation, which is usually like
(04:00):
shareholder votes over actually,if you are aware of the Netflix
Warner Brothers Paramountsituation, this is exactly the
type of situation that we buildwebsites for.
We're not involved in this one,but I can tell you both sides
have a website that went up in.
Days, and there's only a fewagencies that can do that.
And we're one of'em.
Okay.
So we didn't do that one, but Iknow who did like, like crisis
(04:24):
web communications.
Yeah.
And then the second one, that isan agency we're calling
Circulent.
It's been a door opener forNorth Street, which is really
interesting.
And then Moon Vine is my newthing and that is.
I mean, I can tell you how I gotto this too, but essentially,
north Street's been very projectbased for the 15 years that
we've been doing this, and as aresult, my stress levels have
(04:46):
been extremely high.
For 15 years we've been doingthis and I've always been
chasing this like repeatablerevenue model, and I've just
never been able to crack the nutwith like our special mix of
ingredients, which was like verybranding and strategy heavy.
It was hard for me to like getlike a monthly kind of recurring
thing out of that.
We are, north Street does have avery technical part to it, and
(05:09):
part of that is looking atclients' data on their websites
and making informed decisionsabout how to make them better.
So we're just gonna sort of turnthat into its own little weekly
report, and it's gonna start toinclude other things like
competitive intelligence andchanges your competitors made on
their websites and all sorts ofinteresting stuff.
We're using AI obviously toscale it and.
(05:32):
So once I sort of realized, oh,like you don't have to be a
North Street client or even likeon one of our preferred
platforms, like a WordPress orWebflow, for this to, even for
you to be a customer of this.
So this is the one that's gonna,you know.
Make all my dreams come true.
Right.
No, someone that's gonna, Ithink I see like scaling faster.
Scaling bigger and in, and in adifferent way.
And it's just reallyinteresting, like as an agency
(05:54):
guy building a product for thefirst time.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's what I got
Russel (05:59):
going on.
All right.
Not just a couple irons in thefire.
No big deal.
I'll certainly want to, not tounpack there and get to how you
not only arrived at one agency,but three agencies.
But before we go down that road,I'd just love to hear about
Young Tom and how he came up inthe world and Yeah, sure.
What was he, what was he up to?
Tom (06:20):
Young to got to college in the dawn of the internet or the
dawn of the worldwide webactually, I'd say.
Wow.
And so I got my first emailaddress.
When I got to my college campus,I had to go to a special
computer lab and type in Unixcommands to check my email.
Right.
So like that's where my journey,it
Russel (06:39):
was a seventies.
No,
Tom (06:40):
no, no.
It was the nineties, but it waslike, it was, it was like what?
I, you know, I grew up on like AOLI.
I had a OL in like CompuServe,but that was like my internet,
right?
Experience.
But I was always like a very, adesign graphic, design focused.
I'm not like a sports kid.
I was always like, you know,designing my own bands and with
(07:02):
their own logos and skateboardbrands and stuff like that.
Um, and when I got to college,oh, and I was always making,
like, I was actually alwaysmaking on my dad's computer, uh,
like mix tapes.
And then I'd make the sleeve,I'd design a sleeve.
It was awesome.
I bet.
Um.
And when I got to college, itwas like internet was like,
okay, it's this.
(07:23):
We are starting to figure outwhat this thing is.
And then I took a class on HTMLand there was just this one
moment where I just realized Ihad created.
A webpage, my first webpage everon one computer, like on a
computer that, was in my room,my dorm room.
And I remember I went to thelibrary and I called it up'cause
(07:45):
I had figured out how to uploadthings to a server.
And I remember I called it upand I just couldn't believe, and
this is like hard for youngerpeople of a certain, yeah.
People of a certain age get thisand others just don't get it.
But like when I saw what I hadbuilt on one computer, on
another computer.
And I was like, whoa, and I canlike update this at any time and
it'll change in both places.
(08:06):
I was like, whoa, I like, Igotta figure out what this is
and I'm gonna like start doingthis.
So like I changed for being ahistory major to basically
inventing my own major, whichwas communications department.
But essentially all I did wastake every like Adobe creative
class.
I could, um, because thetechnical offerings at that time
(08:27):
were just the comp sidedepartment, which was like
hardcore, like it wasn't webprogramming.
Russel (08:32):
Yeah.
I mean, to the point youngpeople are sitting homeless and
like, did, were you doing thisby candle lights and you're
wagon parked outside?
Tom (08:40):
I mean, but like, it's that kind of thing.
We talk about, I like my partnerand I talked to our kids and
it's like literally, it's likewe had to go to a special
laboratory and put in specialcommands to
Russel (08:52):
check.
Yeah.
To check.
I know.
Look, we're probably not thatfar apart, but that's even a
little more than I had tonavigate.
Or maybe my school wastechnologically
Tom (09:01):
just you.
Russel (09:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Tom (09:03):
Caught.
And the ball
Russel (09:04):
could be too.
Um, but no, it is just crazy howfar we've come technologically
and, uh, um, right.
That's our version of thewalking uphill.
40 miles both ways.
Tom (09:15):
Well, I mean, I actually honestly think, and we can get
into this later, I think thatwhat we're experiencing now with
AI is like the web 1.0.
It's like that much technology,that much unknown, that much
opportunity and risk, and likeno one knows that much more than
anybody else.
And like so many crazy thingsare gonna happen so fast in the
(09:35):
next couple years.
But it just feels like that.
It feels like that Web 1.0.
Just all over again.
Russel (09:41):
25 years from now.
The younger folks today will begetting asked by their kids of,
you used to have to type into aprompt, to get your AI output.
How archaic is that?
They'll be like, you didn't,your
Tom (09:54):
refrigerator didn't do the grocery shopping for you.
Yes.
Like, what?
Russel (09:57):
And make your meal and, and, yes.
That's so true.
We're telling the future rightnow.
We don't even realize it.
Well.
When did it hit you?
When did that bug hit you?
That maybe you're not a, a nineto five job guy, but that
entrepreneurship was in yourfuture.
Tom (10:14):
Yeah, it's funny'cause I will tell you, after I started a
business, it wasn't until afterI started a business that I
realized that my dad had been anentrepreneur his whole life.
He was an electrician but hadstarted his own company and had
run his own company for years.
And it was funny.
It wasn't until later in lifewhen it was like, oh my God, he
has employees and bills andpayroll and it's like the same
(10:35):
thing.
That was not my path.
My path was, okay, I'm gonnalike go to college and then I'm
gonna get a job at like sometechnology company, which I.
That was my sort of foray andlike my first job was in
publishing, but on the digitalside.
Mm-hmm.
Because I taught myself to signand code and I was just very
useful and I was this kid thatcame outta college that could
(10:57):
just do the coding stuff.
Right.
So I got hired and I just.
I was that, that basically mycareer just started and then
centered around the publishingindustry for a little bit.
I wound up at another magazine,and that was an amazing five
years of my life where I startedon the digital side, and then I
wound up as a writer, like thesenior editor of the magazine on
(11:19):
the editorial side.
But miscalculated the timing togo from digital to print like
big time, right?
And so the magazine like shutdown and that's the beginning of
like me freelancing, getting ajob at a OL for a second and
realizing that like, whoa, Ihate this and I hate working for
somebody else.
(11:39):
And like, this place is out ofcontrol.
Um.
So I was freelancing freelancewriting, freelance for
magazines, and then I was, I wasalso starting to get projects
where I was doing logos andwebsites for folks, and that was
it.
It very quickly became apparentto me that, you know, I've got a
limited number of hours in theweek, and if I spend it trying
(11:59):
to pitch articles to magazinesor I spend it making websites
and logos like.
The former, I'll go broke thelatter, I can actually make a
living.
And that was literally like,okay, I'm gonna do this now.
And then I got an anchor client.
I got a client that turned intoa massive client, right?
Just an introduction to someoneat the right time that then he
(12:20):
got a new job and that was like,whoa.
Like now I need people and Ineed stuff.
And I don't think I'm ever goingback.
Russel (12:26):
I love that.
It's funny, like, and you whatyou're saying about, you know,
your dad didn't really realizehe's an entrepreneur.
When, when you think back aboutthat, like, do you compare
yourself to that today?
It is like, oh gosh, now Iunderstand why he was, you know,
stressed about mean.
Yeah, man,
Tom (12:41):
I'll, I'll tell you what, I remember being a kid and my dad
got sued, right?
For some, like, you know, somelady.
He did some electrical work in,said he didn't do the job,
whatever.
You know what I mean?
But it was just this thing as alittle kid, just like under,
like, not even understanding it,just being like, whoa, like what
is this?
Like my dad's in and they hadan, I forget her name, but I'm
(13:02):
like, who is this lady that,like, I keep hearing this name
and it's like my dad's beingsued.
But like.
It was interesting.
He was interesting.
He came and went as he wanted,right?
Mm-hmm.
And I thought that that wasnormal, right?
Like, you know your dad, like,hey, yeah, he's in and out.
He spends his weekdays doingwhatever he wants.
He's got this job over here.
He is, got that job over here.
He pulls in his buddies when hewants to, uh, you know, I got an
(13:24):
early understanding of like whatit meant to be laid off and like
why sometimes that was.
Stood for some of his friends,you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It was like these weird thingsthat I kinda learned early on
that like, I don't think I waseven learning.
It was just what I was likesurrounded by.
Oh yeah.
Russel (13:37):
That's just the standard.
That's that's how life goes.
Yeah.
Tom (13:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And of course he had a homeoffice, um, with like a
computer.
That's how I got, you know, a OLand CompuServe early on.
And we always had a fax machinein the house, so I was
surrounded by like businessstuff and business talk.
But, uh, yeah.
It wasn't until later that I waslike, oh wow.
He was an entrepreneur, he was abusiness owner too.
It was just a different context.
Russel (14:00):
Very fascinating.
well, obviously you've been atthis a long time and then we're
not gonna get to every detail ofyour story.
And it sounds like you've gottenyourself to a good place today,
but when, when you just thinkback across this journey, what
was a hard season that youremember?
And tell us a little bit aboutit and how you got through it.
Tom (14:18):
Yeah, I think.
That's a big question.
I mean, I can tell you there aresome instances, like I tell
everybody this.
I say when you're starting a newbusiness or you're gonna go off
on your own and start yourbusiness, remember that 50% or
more of your job is gonna begetting business, right?
So like.
That's cool that you like whatyou do and that's cool that
(14:40):
you've got this like anchorclient, it's like, that's
awesome, but like nothing lastsforever.
So make sure that you know whereyour next job is coming from.
And that was a lesson I learnedlike very, very like.
Late and, and nothingcatastrophic happened, but I
just remember this point wherewe had three jobs, like three
potential opportunities, and wedidn't get any of them.
(15:03):
And I just remember being like,man, I don't even have anything
in place to even, like, I want adown payment on a project in
like the next three weeks.
And I have nothing in place toeven have a conversation
started.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's like that was a big,big, big one.
And then the other one I'll sayis Financially, like the things
(15:24):
that are working for me arefractional.
CFO, meaning like at whateverminimum cost you can afford
that, just making sure that it'snot just your bookkeeper or
accountant giving you your p andl, like just making sure that
someone is like, this is whatthis means, and like this is
potentially where you're gonnarun into problems is like.
(15:45):
Major, having a line of credit.
I didn't get that until likeseven years into my business.
Like I was like literally whiteknuckling it to like mm-hmm.
Roll sometimes.
So getting that, and then also Ialways, and I learned this from
a friend of mine, but uh, havinga relationship with a local
bank, uh mm-hmm.
Because they're small and you'llalways have someone to call, and
(16:08):
I can't even tell you that savedmy life during the PPP.
Uh, run, for during COVID.
So like, I mean, those arethings that like, man, I, I just
learned late or just avoideddisaster.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, or things I can't believe,like I survived.
(16:28):
Like not having a line of credituntil like seven years in, like
what?
Russel (16:31):
Yeah.
Well I think that is the thrilland the disdain of
entrepreneurship is you seem tolearn what you need to learn
when you need and learn it most.
And there's always, yeah, thewoulda, coulda should have.
But yeah, that was a quick crashcourse and a few things there,
line of credit, right.
I've you always hear that and,and it's always easy to put that
(16:52):
off.
Because as the saying alwaysgoes, you're at least likely to
give it to you when you need it.
Most, a hundred percent get itwhen you know, get it, and
Tom (17:00):
the times are great and like, Hey, draw from it every
once in a while, and then putthe money back in.
Right?
Russel (17:05):
And then same way with right, setting up a relationship
with a local bank and.
They're there to help you.
Not when you want it, but whenyou need it.
If you plan for that ahead and
Tom (17:15):
let, let's just say if your banker's an 800 number, like,
like no.
Like get, make sure you haveanother bank.
Russel (17:21):
Yeah.
They really, really don't careabout you.
Um, and then something, youknow, I talk about like is most
important, right?
I don't think.
This comes up every now and thenon the show, is just this idea
that, uh, every owner that'sgotten to some semblance of
success talks about this idea ofunderstanding their financials
and how important that was.
However they get that, whetherthey take on that role
themselves of really digginginto the numbers or like, it
(17:43):
sounds like in your case,getting that.
Expertise to give you thatguidance that this is more than
a tax situation and a, you know,a pretty p and l that gets it
once a month.
But how are you makingmeaningful business decisions
based upon the financials ofyour business?
Tom (17:58):
Yeah, so we are looking at a couple of, I mean, again, like
for many years my accountantwould give me my p and l and be
like, here it is.
And I literally did not evenknow what I was looking at.
Yeah.
Uh.
And then we introduction to afractional CFO and they put our
QuickBooks online into a modelthat like I could understand.
(18:19):
It was just something that waslike, okay, I see.
I can see the machinery of thebusiness, I can see the labor,
the profit, the costs, theutilization, and it just made
sense to me.
Right?
And so once that was visible tome, once those things were
visible to me and like I couldmake sense of them and we could
even like look ahead.
(18:41):
It was like, oh wow.
I look back on it and I'm like,I can't believe people are
running businesses without thatmuch visibility.
It's like, it's like driving inthe dark with your headlights
off.
'cause it's like, and I'll tellyou, I've been in situations
where they were like, if youdon't make a decision in the
next 30 days on staffing, youwill not have money in October
to pay payroll.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And it's like, well thank youfor telling me that in July.
Yeah.
And not September 15th.
Right.
Like, and so like just havingthat sort of like understanding
of your cash flow and then alsolike the levers of the business.
It's like, you know, chase downyour accounts receivable, like
get chase down your accountsreceivable and you'll like,
(19:21):
that's money in the bank rightthere.
Like the sort of like littlethings you can do.
I think people don't realizeit's not about new business all
the time.
In fact, yeah.
Too much new business is a badthing.
I think there's a lot of likeoptimization, or optimization of
leakage or just straight upoptimization of financials that
can be done without hiring or,or, you know, without, without
(19:45):
making huge changes.
Russel (19:46):
Well, in a lot of the work I do, and oftentimes one of
the simplest gifts that I cangive or help an agency get to is
just a simple forecastspreadsheet.
Um, yeah.
And that ability to stop livingby what's in the bank account
and what's coming in that month.
And, and as, as you were kind ofsharing, look, pick your eyes up
and look a little bit furtherahead.
Make decisions down the road,makes a life a whole lot easier,
(20:09):
and gives you the right mis testof, should I be worried today?
Or things looking good.
But don't leave that to.
Your gut, leave that to the Thenumbers.
Tom (20:18):
Yeah.
Or also it's like, well, here'sa common mistake.
Well, we're really busy.
Should we hire somebody?
And it's like, well, is itprofitable work?
Russel (20:27):
Yeah.
Tom (20:27):
Or you just busy and you're actually like, it's not even
profitable work.
And now you're gonna hireanother set of hands that's
gonna be like just.
Straight up loss like, but ifyou're running off your gut, it
seems like you're busy.
It's like, okay.
Russel (20:42):
Well it's funny, you know, in sitting here saying
this, it really just reminded meand sometimes you just forget
some of the things you had thatyou may have helped you didn't
even realize it is right.
A lot of accounting firms aremoving to more of a consultary
kind of, you know, call itfractional CMO model, but that
wasn't always the case.
Right?
Back in, back in the early days,they were really just tax
people.
But I had the good fortune tofind an accountant that was kind
(21:04):
of starting to test that out asa service, and so I would go sit
down with, it was the owner.
I mean, he had the 50 plusperson accounting firm.
I was getting massive advice andI didn't even really realize it.
I was actually still thinkingabout like, just do my books,
man.
But I was having these meetingsand I was getting just really,
really helpful advice andputting together pro forecasts
(21:25):
and pro performers and stufflike that.
So.
You just reminded me of how Ihad that in my business in the
early days.
Tom (21:31):
I do think there is a disconnect or that just like a
lack of understanding for somebusiness owners that like
accounting, bookkeeping.
Is not financial advising.
Like your books great, they'rekept up to date or they aren't.
Um, but like what do they tellyou?
Russel (21:48):
A bookkeeper is data entry.
A controller, uh, helps youmanage some expenses.
And then, then, right, like atrue CFO or strategic level
advisor is doing that.
And your bookkeeper cannot giveyou strategic financial advice.
They're great at data entry.
Yeah, that's a great, greatreminder there.
(22:09):
Well, fascinating.
And I, yeah, I think financialsare so important and for all the
reasons you said of helpingbuild longer runway, squeezing
more juice outta the fruit we'regetting for clients and, and
just making better decisions.
But I am curious about how orwhen you arrived at these couple
other brands that you'recreating, or you've created, and
(22:31):
how those came born to be aswell.
Tom (22:34):
Yeah, sure.
I'll start with ent.
So ENT is that agency Imentioned.
Um, that is what we do is thatlike high speed like situation,
like drops on a Thursday or aFriday and we have to have a
website open on Monday beforethe market opens type of work.
This is a service that we haveoffered to, it's just been this
(22:56):
odd thing that we have alreadybeen doing as North Street for
15 years for one client.
Hmm.
Just as one client has this oneneed that is so specific and
happens often'cause it's relatedto the market and it's, it's
related to shareholder votes atpublic companies.
And I'm like, not making thisup.
(23:16):
These are money is no objectsituations.
Right.
It's like two.
Giant companies.
I'm talking, we've worked onlike Sprint and T-Mobile
merging, right?
Like the money really is justlike it's get it done.
Mm-hmm.
Attitude like and because theseare agency, these are strategic
comms agencies that hire us, itdoes have to be like perfect.
And they have to be able to likechange it at the last minute.
(23:38):
And so we just got really goodat doing this with this one
agency and is happen.
My contact over there.
They got rolled up into a, i, Ithink it's Omnicom now, or one
of those.
Oh yeah.
Um, and so that relationship,although this was like in the
(24:02):
sort of ether three years ago,that relationship came to a
sudden end in January.
And it was just because of, youknow, this is when we're gonna
transfer this last January.
Russel (24:10):
You're saying even.
Tom (24:11):
This is like, this is when we're gonna transfer to our
internal resources fully.
Russel (24:15):
Right.
Seen that before,
Tom (24:16):
it was crazy.
I had already been thinkingabout spinning the service off
into like its own company and Iwas just like, whoa, I have to
do this now.
I have to, and I mean, honestly,we picked a.
Logo mark and a name that wereboth left over from old
projects, right?
We're a branding agency.
(24:36):
So we had these things likeliterally lying around, um, and
it was like, oh, like this wordent that was originally for a
wind energy company.
And I just thought, I was like,okay, this works, right?
This sounds technical andcircuitous or whatever.
I can make a story about this.
Um.
We worked on some really tightmessaging, and this is the point
(24:58):
is that like, because we nicheddown into this like specific
offering, our message could besuper specific because we knew
exactly who the audience was.
Mm.
And they, they get it and theyhave money is no object kind of
money to hire us or they don'tget it and they don't, don't
understand.
It's irrelevant to them anyway.
Right.
(25:18):
What I found was like NorthStreet.
Great.
We're a branding agency.
We're a creative agency.
Yeah.
Take a number, sit in line,right?
Like, I can approach thesestrategic comms agencies and be
like, Hey, here's my portfolio.
We've done some cool stuff.
And they're like, okay, we'lltake your, we'll take this,
we'll put it in the Rolodex,but.
When I was suddenly able to goto them and say, Hey those like
(25:39):
shareholder situations where youhave to get a website up in like
a weekend or sooner?
Like, that's what I do, check itout.
Mm-hmm.
And they were like, whoa, comein, come in right now.
I had one group literally say,they're like, Tom, when you
walked in our door, it was likeyou had been sent from God.
Russel (25:55):
And I was like, that's quite a, that's quite a
testimonial.
Tom (25:59):
But I'll tell you what.
What was an unexpected surprisethere was that this actually
became a door opener for NorthStreet.
So I would recommend anybodyjust thinking about some sort of
service or offering you have andthinking about maybe
sub-branding it with some veryspecific messages.
'cause I'll tell you what, I getinto the room because of ent,
(26:21):
and more often than not, I walkout with North Street work'cause
it's like, okay, this timelywebsite, they don't have this
need right now.
They just wanna know that theycan call me when it goes down.
And then they're like, oh, well,okay, well, do you guys do like
slide decks and investorpresentations and then just sort
of long-term website projects?
I'm like, well, ENT doesn't, butNorth Street does and it's been
(26:42):
effective.
It's just been reallyinteresting.
I did not expect that.
I was just like, oh yeah, thiswill help me get clients for
this service, and it's opened upother opportunities, so yeah.
Russel (26:52):
That was interesting.
Well, it's like the tip of thespear, um, concept.
That's definitely it.
Concept.
Um, exactly.
It pierces the shield, builds arelationship, builds the trust,
and then you can take it and runwith from there.
Tom (27:04):
Yeah, and it was my messaging, right?
It was need, like need, needsatisfied and timing, you know,
all kind of happening at thesame time, it just got me way
more attention than a generickind of like, Hey, we're North
Street.
We're a branding agency.
Use this.
When, when you think of it.
Russel (27:22):
So let me ask this a question then, because right
you, you've seen the light oflike what you're basically
sharing there of super tightmessaging, super tight fit need,
et cetera.
Has that changed at all, even ifthe service range of North
Street is slightly more broad orexpansive?
Has it changed how you'repositioning North Street?
Tom (27:43):
That's interesting and I'll say that.
Yeah.
But it's not related to ent,it's related to my other
company, moon Vine, which islike Moon Vine is just, the
brief on it is it's a weeklydispatch.
You get an email and over Slackand it basically is this little
competitive intel like snapshot.
(28:03):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, here's how you and yourbrand and your competitors are
doing and overtime, blah, blah,blah.
Um.
And as a result of like buildingthis and then also building
something that like aggregatesdata from a lot of clients.
Like, so all of a sudden we canjust look at like, okay, we can
(28:25):
just see trends, right?
And we've, we're just gettingreally good at building things
in ai.
What's actually happened is.
On the North Street side, therewas a moment there where like
North Street was kind of on thefence of being this like
traditional building.
Building like websites.
Mm-hmm.
And doing a traditional way.
But now I enter sales callsbasically being like literally
(28:49):
anything is possible.
Like it was for real.
Like I could spend the nexteight months with my strategy
team, my designers, my devs,like we can dig deep, do user
profiles, user focus groups, andcharge you 200 K.
Or I can do it this weekendmyself, you know, and charge
(29:10):
you.
I don't know.
Well, maybe I'll, but, but like,but you know what I mean?
It's sort of like my wholeapproach to projects has been.
It's just different.
'cause it's like, well you'recoming here asking me for a
website, but I'm over on thisside in Moon Vine, basically
like building WordPress pluginson the fly.
'cause I can, and it's like,this was like a generation ahead
(29:32):
of our mm-hmm.
North Street work.
And now I'm trying to like, Iguess up North Street's like
sort of technical.
I don't even know.
It's like we don't have to bebuilding everything in
WordPress.
We can build it in anything.
We can kind of do anything.
Um, so I'd like that to comeacross, but I'm skewing where
it's gonna be.
Like, um, north Street is brandand aesthetics.
(29:56):
Ants like a tactical SWAT teamand Moon Vine is data and all
about making data accessible,like accessible in.
The everyday person canunderstand and digest.
Russel (30:09):
Yeah.
Well it still sounds like, Imean this is all somewhat new
and how they all interope andplay off of each other and one
hand feeds the other sort ofthing is still, still sounds
like a, a work in progress.
But it was interesting.
I mean, just, you know, I think.
What happens maybe a lot oftimes or just can happen often
(30:29):
is I just, once an agency startsto go down the positioning path,
they, they start to move awayfrom the previous, um, line of
work or whatever.
But I like this approach you'redoing of is how do I make'em all
feed and work off each other?
And, and while that's not aneasy thing to solve, it sounds
like it's.
Taking you down a prettyinteresting and good path here.
Tom (30:49):
Well, let me tell you that this year, most of this year was
not a great year for m and a.
And so I launched ent, which islike, you know, depends on like
market activity to charge a lotof money.
And it was like, oh man, like Ilaunched this thing and it's
like, we're, we're getting someprojects, but it's like, you
(31:09):
know, kind of like releasing a,like an amazing movie at like
the worst time possible, right?
Mm-hmm.
Russel (31:15):
Um,
Tom (31:16):
but.
Because I did it within NorthStreet.
I didn't lose anything and Istill have it.
It's like this brand that isstill the tip of the spear is
still this marketing.
Basically it's like this brandthat we have.
It's like we have it there.
It has its own website.
It's got its own messaging.
We can, and we can use it to getinto certain places, but I
(31:37):
didn't put all my chips in it,thank God.
Mm-hmm.
Because of the year, because ofthe market, you know, just the
year that we had.
Russel (31:44):
That's fascinating.
And another concept, you know, Ithink was interesting there.
And I love that the subtle pointthat you shared of, look, AI
doesn't have to change what wecharge or devalue the output of
what we're creating.
It just can make it do itfaster, better, or even more
value.
And that's the place of how wetake it from, you know, even
(32:05):
what you're saying at thebeginning of this new age, new
era, dawn of technology.
And yeah, from a place of fearto a place of, um.
Abundance really, and valuecreation.
And yeah, that was, that was, Idon't know if how intentional
that Nugget was, but uh, thatreally stood out to me.
Tom (32:22):
So I will just share that.
I spent a lot of last year as anagency, as a traditional
independent agency owner, reallylike fearing and therefore
avoiding ai.
Mm-hmm.
And.
How to use it really.
And then when I decided tolaunch Moon Vine and I was like,
I think I can use AI to build,this is when I started to really
(32:43):
learn it and embrace it.
And what I have come to find isthat it is going to replace.
Some jobs, but like you have tothink of this as like a
calculator, right?
It's a calculator.
I don't expect my accountant tobreak out long division in order
to do my p and l, and I justthink that this is like a tool
(33:05):
that makes things faster.
And what that allows me to dopersonally is to do things like
I'm.
To be better and faster andlearn faster, and it's just
making me better at what I'malready good at, I think.
Or it helps me learn somethingI'm interested in way faster.
It's not like it's, I'm tellingyou, we're building an
(33:28):
application and these AI botsare.
They seem like they're smart,but they're just pretending they
do the stupid, stupid stuff.
It's
Russel (33:37):
the smartest, dumbest tool, uh, we've ever created.
Tom (33:39):
We call it, we call it the, like, we have this intern that
is a genius, but just is, has noidea what to do with their
intellect.
Russel (33:46):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
There you go.
That, that is a really greatexplanation that the, the genius
that you can't even carry aconversation with.
Yeah.
Tom (33:53):
Yeah.
It's like, why did you do that?
Russel (33:55):
Yeah, that's so true.
Um, oh gosh.
Yeah.
I don't know if I want AI tohear this conversation someday.
They might come after me.
And, uh, why were you making funof me when I was in my fledgling
early days?
Tom (34:08):
Oh man.
Oh man.
Who knows?
This could all be a, this is alla simulation.
Russel (34:13):
Uh, well, some days maybe you might be right.
I feel that, I feel that in mysoul.
One of the things, I mean, Ijust, it just seems like just so
many cool things that you'reworking on that caught my
attention.
I don't think you dropped inthis conversation yet, but I.
You givee away to specificorganizations.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Tom (34:34):
Thank you for reminding me of that.
Yeah, so Moon Vine, we're givingaway free to, uh, nonprofits and
mission based organizations thatfocus on autism and.
There's not any particular areaof autism I'm particularly like
focused on, honestly, like thisis because I have a child like
that we found out recently is onthe spectrum.
(34:56):
Um, and it's this thing whereI've always on the North Street
side, I've always wanted amission.
I just didn't know what it wasand I always felt like.
I was picking things off of ashelf, right?
It's like, oh, well, let'ssupport veterans.
My dad was a veteran.
It's like, oh, let's supportveterans.
And it's like, well, that justfeels like I'm just picking
something, right?
Mm-hmm.
(35:16):
I just feel like it's this firsttime in my life where I'm like,
okay, like I now have something,I have a mission or I have
something I want to work withand solve, which is
understanding autism and, um,making the world a better place
for people like my kid as theyget older and get into the
workplace.
And because it's a scalableproduct that's powered a lot by
(35:37):
ai, it is hopefully as we rollit out in January, gonna start
becoming very profitable.
And so I can do things withthat, which is like give it away
for free to something I believein.
And so for me it's like, yeah,if you're an uti, like reach out
to me.
It's moon vine.io.
Is the site like tom@moonvine.ioor North Street like.
(35:58):
We're not giving away free toeverybody, just because I'll say
like, we don't even know howit's gonna impact our, like
server costs.
Yeah, yeah.
This, this point.
But like, I will have aconversation with anybody and
I'm telling you like, as we'regetting this thing like
automated, like we'll put youin, right?
Like, we'll just put you intothe distribution list.
And it's just something I can, Ifinally feel like I, I have this
(36:19):
thing.
Yeah.
I can do, do something.
Right.
And it's like I really dobelieve in it.
And so,
Russel (36:24):
um,
Tom (36:24):
that feels nice.
That feels really nice.
Russel (36:26):
I've always lived and played and worked in the agency
world, so I don't know much lifeoutside of it per se, but I do
think there's a lot of autonomyin what we do that we can take
our skills and talents that areso needed in the marketplace and
have a lot bigger impact thanwhat we sometimes might give
ourselves credit for.
And that's just amazing to justhear that story.
(36:47):
And I talk with folks a lot justabout the power of purpose and
once you get past that survivalstage, how important it is to
have something that lights youup.
Um, that gives you moremotivation than the next dollar,
just the next client.
But you know, you can feed bothand one's fuel for the other.
And if you can make the world abetter place, well creating a
good life for you and your teamand the process, man, that's a
(37:09):
life worth living.
Tom (37:10):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I love that survival.
Once you're past the survivalphase, that's, that's, you do
get there.
You do.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
You do.
Yeah.
Russel (37:21):
Yeah.
It's okay in survival mode.
All you're worried about yournext meal and, and, and that's
all you can care about.
That's human instinct.
But uh, it does come importantafter that.
And it sounds like you're,you're living that to the
fullest extent here and can'twait to see that continue to, to
impact the world.
Well man, gosh, this has beenfun so far.
But, to kind of start to put thebow on things, I'd love to just
(37:43):
hear how are you looking at thelong term of the business?
What do the goals, hopes,dreams, what do you got going
for the future?
Tom (37:48):
Yeah, it's interesting as we've built out this, uh,
another part of this Moon Vine.
The original idea was, well, Ineed more work, right?
And I need more work for myclients, so how am I gonna do
that?
And it's like, oh, well I'llbuild this thing that tells them
what needs to be fixed on theirwebsite and you know, show them
their competitor data so thatthey're inclined to fix it,
(38:08):
which means they'll hire NorthStreet to do it right and it
becomes this nice littlecircuit.
But my hopes and dreams arethat.
There's way more requests comingin than I could ever handle, and
that as an entrepreneur in thecreative agency space, I don't
believe other agencies are mycompetition, even if they're, I
think that like we're all in ittogether and it's like there's
(38:30):
so much.
Work out there.
Yeah.
Plenty of fish
Russel (38:33):
in the sea for sure.
We're
Tom (38:34):
all so different, right?
So I make it a point to likejust stay in touch with other
agency owners.
I, I mean actually I have aweekly call that's been going on
for five years now with twoother agency owners.
Um, so just to say that like,I'm hoping that there's like an
agency partner.
To this and well, there is goingto be, and like I'd love to see
that grow.
(38:55):
And then North Street's in aplace where we're really picking
the projects that like really,really we really wanna work on
for one reason or another thatcome through Moon Vine.
And, we just continue like NorthStreet runs on really, really
great clients and like the, ourrelationship with them and just
always making sure that we'relike making them better just.
So adding new clients like thatto North Street, but not getting
(39:17):
to, I don't wanna get too big.
I've been a certain size.
I'm smaller than I've been in awhile, and I'm, I'm enjoying it
right now.
Russel (39:24):
I always say the name of the game of this is not to grow
something massive.
The name of the game is just toallow you to live the life you
want.
And that's what's mostimportant.
And again, sounds like you'removing in that direction or
already there to some degreetrying.
Tom (39:36):
No, I'm headed.
I'm headed.
Russel (39:37):
Headed.
Yeah.
There we go.
It's a journey, not adestination.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Well, very fascinating.
Can't wait to see how thatcontinues to shake out for you.
Um, so one last big question foryou, Tom.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made, they're born, made
more?
Tom (39:55):
Uh, I've hired a lot of people over the last 15 years
and I have also been in groupsof other, um, entrepreneurs and
business owners just throughgroups I've been in over the
years.
If there is something inside ofpeople that is, some might call
it hustle.
(40:16):
And I'm not talking about, youdon't have to be a business
owner.
I have a friend that is superentrepreneurial in his, you
know, job that's a littledifferent.
But like I'm telling you, man,it takes a special personality
type to be like, I don't know ifI'm gonna make payroll next week
or if I'm gonna make like half amillion dollars in the next six
months and be okay with that,right?
(40:38):
And like take really giantrisks.
For really big reward.
I just think it takes a certainpersonality type to like be able
to even absorb that.
Russel (40:50):
I think it does.
I think it does.
And I love what you even saidthere.
Not all entrepreneurs work in aown their own business and how
important that thought processis when, when I do think agent
owners fall that trap ofthinking, just anybody can have
that mindset, that ability, thatcapability.
And if we embrace it, that's nottrue, then we might better know
what to look for.
(41:11):
In that entrepreneurial spiritor whatever, if we feel like we
need that in our business.
That's a, a great lesson there.
Awesome, man.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout North Street, wanna know
more about ENT or Moon Vine,where can they go?
Tom (41:23):
Yeah, the easiest is tom@moonvine.io.
It's just the easiest toremember.
And Moon vine.io is the website.
It's placeholder, but you canput your email in there if you
wanna get like access to thething.
Whenever we feel like it's in aplace to, to share with the
public.
Russel (41:38):
Very nice.
Very nice.
Well, if you can find him onone, you can find on the other.
So go check that out folks.
Well, thank you so much, Tom,for taking the time outta your
busy schedule today, talkingabout the power of knowing your
financials, the power of purposein your business, and the always
powerful sharpening the tip ofthe spear in terms of
positioning and how you'reshowing up in the world.
(41:59):
Uh, appreciate you so muchtaking the time to share that
with us today.
Yeah, man, this is a blast.
Likewise, likewise.
Thank you for listening to anagency story podcast where every
story helps you write your own,subscribe, share, and join us
again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
(42:22):
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Tom (42:28):
This is just a cautionary tale for anyone who's gonna be
interviewing for a job.
Um.
Pre COVID.
So I interviewed a guy overvideo and it was strange'cause
it was video.
Like it was just this.
I was like, oh, this is novel.
Like I had never, it wasn'tsomething we were used to in our
everyday life, right?
And so I go into my little likeconference room in my office at
(42:48):
the time in lower Manhattan, andI get on the computer and I
don't know why, man, this guywas just in like a velvet, sort
of like Hugh Hefner style vest.
Uh, like robe, okay.
Like.
Nothing underneath, like justchest hair exposed.
And it was just like, it wasnever addressed through the
whole interview.
And I was like, I was trying toget my head around this guy.
(43:11):
He was interviewing for like adev developer position.
Okay.
Was super smart.
But like I just, I, it, theinterview ended and I was just
like, I came outta the room.
I'm like, that was one of theweirdest things ever.
But I will tell you, I think itwas top to symptoms.
Um, and if he's listening tothis interview, like, no harm,
I'm not gonna name it, but like,listen man, it was funny and
(43:33):
just so you know.
Yeah.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't
Russel (43:36):
do an interview again, but like, I feel like it's going
either way.
If you're that type and you,that's just who you are.
You don't care what other peoplethink.
You don't care.
Okay.
Or if you're wearing it as ajoke.
It's a risky move.
I'd say as an interviewcandidate, it's,
Tom (43:50):
that's what it's, you're gonna stand out.
You're gonna stand out, good orbad.
Russel (43:54):
That's funny.
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(01:38):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Tom Conlon with us heretoday with North Street, among
other things.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Tom.
All right.
Good to see you, Russell.
Great to see you.
Just kick us off right out thegate, tell us what North Street
(02:01):
does and who you do it for.
Tom (02:02):
Great.
Alright.
All right.
All right.
North Street's a branding andstrategy agency.
I've been running it for 15years now.
Um, we are mostly, uh, businesscorporate focused, so, you know,
we don't do e-commerce sites, wedon't do sneakers and stuff like
that.
Uh, we work on financialservices, brands, nonprofits.
And like professional servicesand most of our work is honestly
(02:25):
mid-market.
Um, but we've had some big nameclients, including the
Environmental Defense Fund islike a big nonprofit that we've
worked with.
That's a big household name.
We've got some.
Financial services, householdnames, but then, uh, last year
we, by a series of crazy rightplace, right time circumstances
(02:46):
wound up working on the KamalaHarris website, so, okay.
Very cool.
That is, and what we do, it's,we do brand strategy, just what
does this brand, who does itspeak to and what does it need
to say all the way down to likethe execution and optimization
of a website.
So, and everything in between.
Russel (03:04):
Love it.
I imagine it's some amazing workyou do there.
And, and go ahead and just tellus a little bit about the, and
other things that that you havegoing on in the business
process.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Tom (03:14):
So this year was interesting.
I mean, north Street's been,I've been doing it for 15 years
and in 2025 I launched two new,I'll call them brand extensions.
I mean, they are positioned ascompanies.
Uh, right now they're just notactually, um.
New separate business entities,but essentially it's my team and
these two new brands are just, alot of it is positioning, well,
(03:38):
one is just North Streetrepositioned and the other is
North Street taking our kind oftechnical know-how and turning
that into like a repeatablebusiness model instead of what
we are now as project based.
So like one of them is an agencythat is focused on very, very
fast website design anddevelopment.
Um, for a very specific nichesituation, which is usually like
(04:00):
shareholder votes over actually,if you are aware of the Netflix
Warner Brothers Paramountsituation, this is exactly the
type of situation that we buildwebsites for.
We're not involved in this one,but I can tell you both sides
have a website that went up in.
Days, and there's only a fewagencies that can do that.
And we're one of'em.
Okay.
So we didn't do that one, but Iknow who did like, like crisis
(04:24):
web communications.
Yeah.
And then the second one, that isan agency we're calling
Circulent.
It's been a door opener forNorth Street, which is really
interesting.
And then Moon Vine is my newthing and that is.
I mean, I can tell you how I gotto this too, but essentially,
north Street's been very projectbased for the 15 years that
we've been doing this, and as aresult, my stress levels have
(04:46):
been extremely high.
For 15 years we've been doingthis and I've always been
chasing this like repeatablerevenue model, and I've just
never been able to crack the nutwith like our special mix of
ingredients, which was like verybranding and strategy heavy.
It was hard for me to like getlike a monthly kind of recurring
thing out of that.
We are, north Street does have avery technical part to it, and
(05:09):
part of that is looking atclients' data on their websites
and making informed decisionsabout how to make them better.
So we're just gonna sort of turnthat into its own little weekly
report, and it's gonna start toinclude other things like
competitive intelligence andchanges your competitors made on
their websites and all sorts ofinteresting stuff.
We're using AI obviously toscale it and.
(05:32):
So once I sort of realized, oh,like you don't have to be a
North Street client or even likeon one of our preferred
platforms, like a WordPress orWebflow, for this to, even for
you to be a customer of this.
So this is the one that's gonna,you know.
Make all my dreams come true.
Right.
No, someone that's gonna, Ithink I see like scaling faster.
Scaling bigger and in, and in adifferent way.
And it's just reallyinteresting, like as an agency
(05:54):
guy building a product for thefirst time.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's what I got
Russel (05:59):
going on.
All right.
Not just a couple irons in thefire.
No big deal.
I'll certainly want to, not tounpack there and get to how you
not only arrived at one agency,but three agencies.
But before we go down that road,I'd just love to hear about
Young Tom and how he came up inthe world and Yeah, sure.
What was he, what was he up to?
Tom (06:20):
Young to got to college in the dawn of the internet or the
dawn of the worldwide webactually, I'd say.
Wow.
And so I got my first emailaddress.
When I got to my college campus,I had to go to a special
computer lab and type in Unixcommands to check my email.
Right.
So like that's where my journey,it
Russel (06:39):
was a seventies.
No,
Tom (06:40):
no, no.
It was the nineties, but it waslike, it was, it was like what?
I, you know, I grew up on like AOLI.
I had a OL in like CompuServe,but that was like my internet,
right?
Experience.
But I was always like a very, adesign graphic, design focused.
I'm not like a sports kid.
I was always like, you know,designing my own bands and with
(07:02):
their own logos and skateboardbrands and stuff like that.
Um, and when I got to college,oh, and I was always making,
like, I was actually alwaysmaking on my dad's computer, uh,
like mix tapes.
And then I'd make the sleeve,I'd design a sleeve.
It was awesome.
I bet.
Um.
And when I got to college, itwas like internet was like,
okay, it's this.
(07:23):
We are starting to figure outwhat this thing is.
And then I took a class on HTMLand there was just this one
moment where I just realized Ihad created.
A webpage, my first webpage everon one computer, like on a
computer that, was in my room,my dorm room.
And I remember I went to thelibrary and I called it up'cause
(07:45):
I had figured out how to uploadthings to a server.
And I remember I called it upand I just couldn't believe, and
this is like hard for youngerpeople of a certain, yeah.
People of a certain age get thisand others just don't get it.
But like when I saw what I hadbuilt on one computer, on
another computer.
And I was like, whoa, and I canlike update this at any time and
it'll change in both places.
(08:06):
I was like, whoa, I like, Igotta figure out what this is
and I'm gonna like start doingthis.
So like I changed for being ahistory major to basically
inventing my own major, whichwas communications department.
But essentially all I did wastake every like Adobe creative
class.
I could, um, because thetechnical offerings at that time
(08:27):
were just the comp sidedepartment, which was like
hardcore, like it wasn't webprogramming.
Russel (08:32):
Yeah.
I mean, to the point youngpeople are sitting homeless and
like, did, were you doing thisby candle lights and you're
wagon parked outside?
Tom (08:40):
I mean, but like, it's that kind of thing.
We talk about, I like my partnerand I talked to our kids and
it's like literally, it's likewe had to go to a special
laboratory and put in specialcommands to
Russel (08:52):
check.
Yeah.
To check.
I know.
Look, we're probably not thatfar apart, but that's even a
little more than I had tonavigate.
Or maybe my school wastechnologically
Tom (09:01):
just you.
Russel (09:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Tom (09:03):
Caught.
And the ball
Russel (09:04):
could be too.
Um, but no, it is just crazy howfar we've come technologically
and, uh, um, right.
That's our version of thewalking uphill.
40 miles both ways.
Tom (09:15):
Well, I mean, I actually honestly think, and we can get
into this later, I think thatwhat we're experiencing now with
AI is like the web 1.0.
It's like that much technology,that much unknown, that much
opportunity and risk, and likeno one knows that much more than
anybody else.
And like so many crazy thingsare gonna happen so fast in the
(09:35):
next couple years.
But it just feels like that.
It feels like that Web 1.0.
Just all over again.
Russel (09:41):
25 years from now.
The younger folks today will begetting asked by their kids of,
you used to have to type into aprompt, to get your AI output.
How archaic is that?
They'll be like, you didn't,your
Tom (09:54):
refrigerator didn't do the grocery shopping for you.
Yes.
Like, what?
Russel (09:57):
And make your meal and, and, yes.
That's so true.
We're telling the future rightnow.
We don't even realize it.
Well.
When did it hit you?
When did that bug hit you?
That maybe you're not a, a nineto five job guy, but that
entrepreneurship was in yourfuture.
Tom (10:14):
Yeah, it's funny'cause I will tell you, after I started a
business, it wasn't until afterI started a business that I
realized that my dad had been anentrepreneur his whole life.
He was an electrician but hadstarted his own company and had
run his own company for years.
And it was funny.
It wasn't until later in lifewhen it was like, oh my God, he
has employees and bills andpayroll and it's like the same
(10:35):
thing.
That was not my path.
My path was, okay, I'm gonnalike go to college and then I'm
gonna get a job at like sometechnology company, which I.
That was my sort of foray andlike my first job was in
publishing, but on the digitalside.
Mm-hmm.
Because I taught myself to signand code and I was just very
useful and I was this kid thatcame outta college that could
(10:57):
just do the coding stuff.
Right.
So I got hired and I just.
I was that, that basically mycareer just started and then
centered around the publishingindustry for a little bit.
I wound up at another magazine,and that was an amazing five
years of my life where I startedon the digital side, and then I
wound up as a writer, like thesenior editor of the magazine on
(11:19):
the editorial side.
But miscalculated the timing togo from digital to print like
big time, right?
And so the magazine like shutdown and that's the beginning of
like me freelancing, getting ajob at a OL for a second and
realizing that like, whoa, Ihate this and I hate working for
somebody else.
(11:39):
And like, this place is out ofcontrol.
Um.
So I was freelancing freelancewriting, freelance for
magazines, and then I was, I wasalso starting to get projects
where I was doing logos andwebsites for folks, and that was
it.
It very quickly became apparentto me that, you know, I've got a
limited number of hours in theweek, and if I spend it trying
(11:59):
to pitch articles to magazinesor I spend it making websites
and logos like.
The former, I'll go broke thelatter, I can actually make a
living.
And that was literally like,okay, I'm gonna do this now.
And then I got an anchor client.
I got a client that turned intoa massive client, right?
Just an introduction to someoneat the right time that then he
(12:20):
got a new job and that was like,whoa.
Like now I need people and Ineed stuff.
And I don't think I'm ever goingback.
Russel (12:26):
I love that.
It's funny, like, and you whatyou're saying about, you know,
your dad didn't really realizehe's an entrepreneur.
When, when you think back aboutthat, like, do you compare
yourself to that today?
It is like, oh gosh, now Iunderstand why he was, you know,
stressed about mean.
Yeah, man,
Tom (12:41):
I'll, I'll tell you what, I remember being a kid and my dad
got sued, right?
For some, like, you know, somelady.
He did some electrical work in,said he didn't do the job,
whatever.
You know what I mean?
But it was just this thing as alittle kid, just like under,
like, not even understanding it,just being like, whoa, like what
is this?
Like my dad's in and they hadan, I forget her name, but I'm
(13:02):
like, who is this lady that,like, I keep hearing this name
and it's like my dad's beingsued.
But like.
It was interesting.
He was interesting.
He came and went as he wanted,right?
Mm-hmm.
And I thought that that wasnormal, right?
Like, you know your dad, like,hey, yeah, he's in and out.
He spends his weekdays doingwhatever he wants.
He's got this job over here.
He is, got that job over here.
He pulls in his buddies when hewants to, uh, you know, I got an
(13:24):
early understanding of like whatit meant to be laid off and like
why sometimes that was.
Stood for some of his friends,you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It was like these weird thingsthat I kinda learned early on
that like, I don't think I waseven learning.
It was just what I was likesurrounded by.
Oh yeah.
Russel (13:37):
That's just the standard.
That's that's how life goes.
Yeah.
Tom (13:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And of course he had a homeoffice, um, with like a
computer.
That's how I got, you know, a OLand CompuServe early on.
And we always had a fax machinein the house, so I was
surrounded by like businessstuff and business talk.
But, uh, yeah.
It wasn't until later that I waslike, oh wow.
He was an entrepreneur, he was abusiness owner too.
It was just a different context.
Russel (14:00):
Very fascinating.
well, obviously you've been atthis a long time and then we're
not gonna get to every detail ofyour story.
And it sounds like you've gottenyourself to a good place today,
but when, when you just thinkback across this journey, what
was a hard season that youremember?
And tell us a little bit aboutit and how you got through it.
Tom (14:18):
Yeah, I think.
That's a big question.
I mean, I can tell you there aresome instances, like I tell
everybody this.
I say when you're starting a newbusiness or you're gonna go off
on your own and start yourbusiness, remember that 50% or
more of your job is gonna begetting business, right?
So like.
That's cool that you like whatyou do and that's cool that
(14:40):
you've got this like anchorclient, it's like, that's
awesome, but like nothing lastsforever.
So make sure that you know whereyour next job is coming from.
And that was a lesson I learnedlike very, very like.
Late and, and nothingcatastrophic happened, but I
just remember this point wherewe had three jobs, like three
potential opportunities, and wedidn't get any of them.
(15:03):
And I just remember being like,man, I don't even have anything
in place to even, like, I want adown payment on a project in
like the next three weeks.
And I have nothing in place toeven have a conversation
started.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's like that was a big,big, big one.
And then the other one I'll sayis Financially, like the things
(15:24):
that are working for me arefractional.
CFO, meaning like at whateverminimum cost you can afford
that, just making sure that it'snot just your bookkeeper or
accountant giving you your p andl, like just making sure that
someone is like, this is whatthis means, and like this is
potentially where you're gonnarun into problems is like.
(15:45):
Major, having a line of credit.
I didn't get that until likeseven years into my business.
Like I was like literally whiteknuckling it to like mm-hmm.
Roll sometimes.
So getting that, and then also Ialways, and I learned this from
a friend of mine, but uh, havinga relationship with a local
bank, uh mm-hmm.
Because they're small and you'llalways have someone to call, and
(16:08):
I can't even tell you that savedmy life during the PPP.
Uh, run, for during COVID.
So like, I mean, those arethings that like, man, I, I just
learned late or just avoideddisaster.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, or things I can't believe,like I survived.
(16:28):
Like not having a line of credituntil like seven years in, like
what?
Russel (16:31):
Yeah.
Well I think that is the thrilland the disdain of
entrepreneurship is you seem tolearn what you need to learn
when you need and learn it most.
And there's always, yeah, thewoulda, coulda should have.
But yeah, that was a quick crashcourse and a few things there,
line of credit, right.
I've you always hear that and,and it's always easy to put that
(16:52):
off.
Because as the saying alwaysgoes, you're at least likely to
give it to you when you need it.
Most, a hundred percent get itwhen you know, get it, and
Tom (17:00):
the times are great and like, Hey, draw from it every
once in a while, and then putthe money back in.
Right?
Russel (17:05):
And then same way with right, setting up a relationship
with a local bank and.
They're there to help you.
Not when you want it, but whenyou need it.
If you plan for that ahead and
Tom (17:15):
let, let's just say if your banker's an 800 number, like,
like no.
Like get, make sure you haveanother bank.
Russel (17:21):
Yeah.
They really, really don't careabout you.
Um, and then something, youknow, I talk about like is most
important, right?
I don't think.
This comes up every now and thenon the show, is just this idea
that, uh, every owner that'sgotten to some semblance of
success talks about this idea ofunderstanding their financials
and how important that was.
However they get that, whetherthey take on that role
themselves of really digginginto the numbers or like, it
(17:43):
sounds like in your case,getting that.
Expertise to give you thatguidance that this is more than
a tax situation and a, you know,a pretty p and l that gets it
once a month.
But how are you makingmeaningful business decisions
based upon the financials ofyour business?
Tom (17:58):
Yeah, so we are looking at a couple of, I mean, again, like
for many years my accountantwould give me my p and l and be
like, here it is.
And I literally did not evenknow what I was looking at.
Yeah.
Uh.
And then we introduction to afractional CFO and they put our
QuickBooks online into a modelthat like I could understand.
(18:19):
It was just something that waslike, okay, I see.
I can see the machinery of thebusiness, I can see the labor,
the profit, the costs, theutilization, and it just made
sense to me.
Right?
And so once that was visible tome, once those things were
visible to me and like I couldmake sense of them and we could
even like look ahead.
(18:41):
It was like, oh wow.
I look back on it and I'm like,I can't believe people are
running businesses without thatmuch visibility.
It's like, it's like driving inthe dark with your headlights
off.
'cause it's like, and I'll tellyou, I've been in situations
where they were like, if youdon't make a decision in the
next 30 days on staffing, youwill not have money in October
to pay payroll.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And it's like, well thank youfor telling me that in July.
Yeah.
And not September 15th.
Right.
Like, and so like just havingthat sort of like understanding
of your cash flow and then alsolike the levers of the business.
It's like, you know, chase downyour accounts receivable, like
get chase down your accountsreceivable and you'll like,
(19:21):
that's money in the bank rightthere.
Like the sort of like littlethings you can do.
I think people don't realizeit's not about new business all
the time.
In fact, yeah.
Too much new business is a badthing.
I think there's a lot of likeoptimization, or optimization of
leakage or just straight upoptimization of financials that
can be done without hiring or,or, you know, without, without
(19:45):
making huge changes.
Russel (19:46):
Well, in a lot of the work I do, and oftentimes one of
the simplest gifts that I cangive or help an agency get to is
just a simple forecastspreadsheet.
Um, yeah.
And that ability to stop livingby what's in the bank account
and what's coming in that month.
And, and as, as you were kind ofsharing, look, pick your eyes up
and look a little bit furtherahead.
Make decisions down the road,makes a life a whole lot easier,
(20:09):
and gives you the right mis testof, should I be worried today?
Or things looking good.
But don't leave that to.
Your gut, leave that to the Thenumbers.
Tom (20:18):
Yeah.
Or also it's like, well, here'sa common mistake.
Well, we're really busy.
Should we hire somebody?
And it's like, well, is itprofitable work?
Russel (20:27):
Yeah.
Tom (20:27):
Or you just busy and you're actually like, it's not even
profitable work.
And now you're gonna hireanother set of hands that's
gonna be like just.
Straight up loss like, but ifyou're running off your gut, it
seems like you're busy.
It's like, okay.
Russel (20:42):
Well it's funny, you know, in sitting here saying
this, it really just reminded meand sometimes you just forget
some of the things you had thatyou may have helped you didn't
even realize it is right.
A lot of accounting firms aremoving to more of a consultary
kind of, you know, call itfractional CMO model, but that
wasn't always the case.
Right?
Back in, back in the early days,they were really just tax
people.
But I had the good fortune tofind an accountant that was kind
(21:04):
of starting to test that out asa service, and so I would go sit
down with, it was the owner.
I mean, he had the 50 plusperson accounting firm.
I was getting massive advice andI didn't even really realize it.
I was actually still thinkingabout like, just do my books,
man.
But I was having these meetingsand I was getting just really,
really helpful advice andputting together pro forecasts
(21:25):
and pro performers and stufflike that.
So.
You just reminded me of how Ihad that in my business in the
early days.
Tom (21:31):
I do think there is a disconnect or that just like a
lack of understanding for somebusiness owners that like
accounting, bookkeeping.
Is not financial advising.
Like your books great, they'rekept up to date or they aren't.
Um, but like what do they tellyou?
Russel (21:48):
A bookkeeper is data entry.
A controller, uh, helps youmanage some expenses.
And then, then, right, like atrue CFO or strategic level
advisor is doing that.
And your bookkeeper cannot giveyou strategic financial advice.
They're great at data entry.
Yeah, that's a great, greatreminder there.
(22:09):
Well, fascinating.
And I, yeah, I think financialsare so important and for all the
reasons you said of helpingbuild longer runway, squeezing
more juice outta the fruit we'regetting for clients and, and
just making better decisions.
But I am curious about how orwhen you arrived at these couple
other brands that you'recreating, or you've created, and
(22:31):
how those came born to be aswell.
Tom (22:34):
Yeah, sure.
I'll start with ent.
So ENT is that agency Imentioned.
Um, that is what we do is thatlike high speed like situation,
like drops on a Thursday or aFriday and we have to have a
website open on Monday beforethe market opens type of work.
This is a service that we haveoffered to, it's just been this
(22:56):
odd thing that we have alreadybeen doing as North Street for
15 years for one client.
Hmm.
Just as one client has this oneneed that is so specific and
happens often'cause it's relatedto the market and it's, it's
related to shareholder votes atpublic companies.
And I'm like, not making thisup.
(23:16):
These are money is no objectsituations.
Right.
It's like two.
Giant companies.
I'm talking, we've worked onlike Sprint and T-Mobile
merging, right?
Like the money really is justlike it's get it done.
Mm-hmm.
Attitude like and because theseare agency, these are strategic
comms agencies that hire us, itdoes have to be like perfect.
And they have to be able to likechange it at the last minute.
(23:38):
And so we just got really goodat doing this with this one
agency and is happen.
My contact over there.
They got rolled up into a, i, Ithink it's Omnicom now, or one
of those.
Oh yeah.
Um, and so that relationship,although this was like in the
(24:02):
sort of ether three years ago,that relationship came to a
sudden end in January.
And it was just because of, youknow, this is when we're gonna
transfer this last January.
Russel (24:10):
You're saying even.
Tom (24:11):
This is like, this is when we're gonna transfer to our
internal resources fully.
Russel (24:15):
Right.
Seen that before,
Tom (24:16):
it was crazy.
I had already been thinkingabout spinning the service off
into like its own company and Iwas just like, whoa, I have to
do this now.
I have to, and I mean, honestly,we picked a.
Logo mark and a name that wereboth left over from old
projects, right?
We're a branding agency.
(24:36):
So we had these things likeliterally lying around, um, and
it was like, oh, like this wordent that was originally for a
wind energy company.
And I just thought, I was like,okay, this works, right?
This sounds technical andcircuitous or whatever.
I can make a story about this.
Um.
We worked on some really tightmessaging, and this is the point
(24:58):
is that like, because we nicheddown into this like specific
offering, our message could besuper specific because we knew
exactly who the audience was.
Mm.
And they, they get it and theyhave money is no object kind of
money to hire us or they don'tget it and they don't, don't
understand.
It's irrelevant to them anyway.
Right.
(25:18):
What I found was like NorthStreet.
Great.
We're a branding agency.
We're a creative agency.
Yeah.
Take a number, sit in line,right?
Like, I can approach thesestrategic comms agencies and be
like, Hey, here's my portfolio.
We've done some cool stuff.
And they're like, okay, we'lltake your, we'll take this,
we'll put it in the Rolodex,but.
When I was suddenly able to goto them and say, Hey those like
(25:39):
shareholder situations where youhave to get a website up in like
a weekend or sooner?
Like, that's what I do, check itout.
Mm-hmm.
And they were like, whoa, comein, come in right now.
I had one group literally say,they're like, Tom, when you
walked in our door, it was likeyou had been sent from God.
Russel (25:55):
And I was like, that's quite a, that's quite a
testimonial.
Tom (25:59):
But I'll tell you what.
What was an unexpected surprisethere was that this actually
became a door opener for NorthStreet.
So I would recommend anybodyjust thinking about some sort of
service or offering you have andthinking about maybe
sub-branding it with some veryspecific messages.
'cause I'll tell you what, I getinto the room because of ent,
(26:21):
and more often than not, I walkout with North Street work'cause
it's like, okay, this timelywebsite, they don't have this
need right now.
They just wanna know that theycan call me when it goes down.
And then they're like, oh, well,okay, well, do you guys do like
slide decks and investorpresentations and then just sort
of long-term website projects?
I'm like, well, ENT doesn't, butNorth Street does and it's been
(26:42):
effective.
It's just been reallyinteresting.
I did not expect that.
I was just like, oh yeah, thiswill help me get clients for
this service, and it's opened upother opportunities, so yeah.
Russel (26:52):
That was interesting.
Well, it's like the tip of thespear, um, concept.
That's definitely it.
Concept.
Um, exactly.
It pierces the shield, builds arelationship, builds the trust,
and then you can take it and runwith from there.
Tom (27:04):
Yeah, and it was my messaging, right?
It was need, like need, needsatisfied and timing, you know,
all kind of happening at thesame time, it just got me way
more attention than a generickind of like, Hey, we're North
Street.
We're a branding agency.
Use this.
When, when you think of it.
Russel (27:22):
So let me ask this a question then, because right
you, you've seen the light oflike what you're basically
sharing there of super tightmessaging, super tight fit need,
et cetera.
Has that changed at all, even ifthe service range of North
Street is slightly more broad orexpansive?
Has it changed how you'repositioning North Street?
Tom (27:43):
That's interesting and I'll say that.
Yeah.
But it's not related to ent,it's related to my other
company, moon Vine, which islike Moon Vine is just, the
brief on it is it's a weeklydispatch.
You get an email and over Slackand it basically is this little
competitive intel like snapshot.
(28:03):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, here's how you and yourbrand and your competitors are
doing and overtime, blah, blah,blah.
Um.
And as a result of like buildingthis and then also building
something that like aggregatesdata from a lot of clients.
Like, so all of a sudden we canjust look at like, okay, we can
(28:25):
just see trends, right?
And we've, we're just gettingreally good at building things
in ai.
What's actually happened is.
On the North Street side, therewas a moment there where like
North Street was kind of on thefence of being this like
traditional building.
Building like websites.
Mm-hmm.
And doing a traditional way.
But now I enter sales callsbasically being like literally
(28:49):
anything is possible.
Like it was for real.
Like I could spend the nexteight months with my strategy
team, my designers, my devs,like we can dig deep, do user
profiles, user focus groups, andcharge you 200 K.
Or I can do it this weekendmyself, you know, and charge
(29:10):
you.
I don't know.
Well, maybe I'll, but, but like,but you know what I mean?
It's sort of like my wholeapproach to projects has been.
It's just different.
'cause it's like, well you'recoming here asking me for a
website, but I'm over on thisside in Moon Vine, basically
like building WordPress pluginson the fly.
'cause I can, and it's like,this was like a generation ahead
(29:32):
of our mm-hmm.
North Street work.
And now I'm trying to like, Iguess up North Street's like
sort of technical.
I don't even know.
It's like we don't have to bebuilding everything in
WordPress.
We can build it in anything.
We can kind of do anything.
Um, so I'd like that to comeacross, but I'm skewing where
it's gonna be.
Like, um, north Street is brandand aesthetics.
(29:56):
Ants like a tactical SWAT teamand Moon Vine is data and all
about making data accessible,like accessible in.
The everyday person canunderstand and digest.
Russel (30:09):
Yeah.
Well it still sounds like, Imean this is all somewhat new
and how they all interope andplay off of each other and one
hand feeds the other sort ofthing is still, still sounds
like a, a work in progress.
But it was interesting.
I mean, just, you know, I think.
What happens maybe a lot oftimes or just can happen often
(30:29):
is I just, once an agency startsto go down the positioning path,
they, they start to move awayfrom the previous, um, line of
work or whatever.
But I like this approach you'redoing of is how do I make'em all
feed and work off each other?
And, and while that's not aneasy thing to solve, it sounds
like it's.
Taking you down a prettyinteresting and good path here.
Tom (30:49):
Well, let me tell you that this year, most of this year was
not a great year for m and a.
And so I launched ent, which islike, you know, depends on like
market activity to charge a lotof money.
And it was like, oh man, like Ilaunched this thing and it's
like, we're, we're getting someprojects, but it's like, you
(31:09):
know, kind of like releasing a,like an amazing movie at like
the worst time possible, right?
Mm-hmm.
Russel (31:15):
Um,
Tom (31:16):
but.
Because I did it within NorthStreet.
I didn't lose anything and Istill have it.
It's like this brand that isstill the tip of the spear is
still this marketing.
Basically it's like this brandthat we have.
It's like we have it there.
It has its own website.
It's got its own messaging.
We can, and we can use it to getinto certain places, but I
(31:37):
didn't put all my chips in it,thank God.
Mm-hmm.
Because of the year, because ofthe market, you know, just the
year that we had.
Russel (31:44):
That's fascinating.
And another concept, you know, Ithink was interesting there.
And I love that the subtle pointthat you shared of, look, AI
doesn't have to change what wecharge or devalue the output of
what we're creating.
It just can make it do itfaster, better, or even more
value.
And that's the place of how wetake it from, you know, even
(32:05):
what you're saying at thebeginning of this new age, new
era, dawn of technology.
And yeah, from a place of fearto a place of, um.
Abundance really, and valuecreation.
And yeah, that was, that was, Idon't know if how intentional
that Nugget was, but uh, thatreally stood out to me.
Tom (32:22):
So I will just share that.
I spent a lot of last year as anagency, as a traditional
independent agency owner, reallylike fearing and therefore
avoiding ai.
Mm-hmm.
And.
How to use it really.
And then when I decided tolaunch Moon Vine and I was like,
I think I can use AI to build,this is when I started to really
(32:43):
learn it and embrace it.
And what I have come to find isthat it is going to replace.
Some jobs, but like you have tothink of this as like a
calculator, right?
It's a calculator.
I don't expect my accountant tobreak out long division in order
to do my p and l, and I justthink that this is like a tool
(33:05):
that makes things faster.
And what that allows me to dopersonally is to do things like
I'm.
To be better and faster andlearn faster, and it's just
making me better at what I'malready good at, I think.
Or it helps me learn somethingI'm interested in way faster.
It's not like it's, I'm tellingyou, we're building an
(33:28):
application and these AI botsare.
They seem like they're smart,but they're just pretending they
do the stupid, stupid stuff.
It's
Russel (33:37):
the smartest, dumbest tool, uh, we've ever created.
Tom (33:39):
We call it, we call it the, like, we have this intern that
is a genius, but just is, has noidea what to do with their
intellect.
Russel (33:46):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
There you go.
That, that is a really greatexplanation that the, the genius
that you can't even carry aconversation with.
Yeah.
Tom (33:53):
Yeah.
It's like, why did you do that?
Russel (33:55):
Yeah, that's so true.
Um, oh gosh.
Yeah.
I don't know if I want AI tohear this conversation someday.
They might come after me.
And, uh, why were you making funof me when I was in my fledgling
early days?
Tom (34:08):
Oh man.
Oh man.
Who knows?
This could all be a, this is alla simulation.
Russel (34:13):
Uh, well, some days maybe you might be right.
I feel that, I feel that in mysoul.
One of the things, I mean, Ijust, it just seems like just so
many cool things that you'reworking on that caught my
attention.
I don't think you dropped inthis conversation yet, but I.
You givee away to specificorganizations.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Tom (34:34):
Thank you for reminding me of that.
Yeah, so Moon Vine, we're givingaway free to, uh, nonprofits and
mission based organizations thatfocus on autism and.
There's not any particular areaof autism I'm particularly like
focused on, honestly, like thisis because I have a child like
that we found out recently is onthe spectrum.
(34:56):
Um, and it's this thing whereI've always on the North Street
side, I've always wanted amission.
I just didn't know what it wasand I always felt like.
I was picking things off of ashelf, right?
It's like, oh, well, let'ssupport veterans.
My dad was a veteran.
It's like, oh, let's supportveterans.
And it's like, well, that justfeels like I'm just picking
something, right?
Mm-hmm.
(35:16):
I just feel like it's this firsttime in my life where I'm like,
okay, like I now have something,I have a mission or I have
something I want to work withand solve, which is
understanding autism and, um,making the world a better place
for people like my kid as theyget older and get into the
workplace.
And because it's a scalableproduct that's powered a lot by
(35:37):
ai, it is hopefully as we rollit out in January, gonna start
becoming very profitable.
And so I can do things withthat, which is like give it away
for free to something I believein.
And so for me it's like, yeah,if you're an uti, like reach out
to me.
It's moon vine.io.
Is the site like tom@moonvine.ioor North Street like.
(35:58):
We're not giving away free toeverybody, just because I'll say
like, we don't even know howit's gonna impact our, like
server costs.
Yeah, yeah.
This, this point.
But like, I will have aconversation with anybody and
I'm telling you like, as we'regetting this thing like
automated, like we'll put youin, right?
Like, we'll just put you intothe distribution list.
And it's just something I can, Ifinally feel like I, I have this
(36:19):
thing.
Yeah.
I can do, do something.
Right.
And it's like I really dobelieve in it.
And so,
Russel (36:24):
um,
Tom (36:24):
that feels nice.
That feels really nice.
Russel (36:26):
I've always lived and played and worked in the agency
world, so I don't know much lifeoutside of it per se, but I do
think there's a lot of autonomyin what we do that we can take
our skills and talents that areso needed in the marketplace and
have a lot bigger impact thanwhat we sometimes might give
ourselves credit for.
And that's just amazing to justhear that story.
(36:47):
And I talk with folks a lot justabout the power of purpose and
once you get past that survivalstage, how important it is to
have something that lights youup.
Um, that gives you moremotivation than the next dollar,
just the next client.
But you know, you can feed bothand one's fuel for the other.
And if you can make the world abetter place, well creating a
good life for you and your teamand the process, man, that's a
(37:09):
life worth living.
Tom (37:10):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I love that survival.
Once you're past the survivalphase, that's, that's, you do
get there.
You do.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
You do.
Yeah.
Russel (37:21):
Yeah.
It's okay in survival mode.
All you're worried about yournext meal and, and, and that's
all you can care about.
That's human instinct.
But uh, it does come importantafter that.
And it sounds like you're,you're living that to the
fullest extent here and can'twait to see that continue to, to
impact the world.
Well man, gosh, this has beenfun so far.
But, to kind of start to put thebow on things, I'd love to just
(37:43):
hear how are you looking at thelong term of the business?
What do the goals, hopes,dreams, what do you got going
for the future?
Tom (37:48):
Yeah, it's interesting as we've built out this, uh,
another part of this Moon Vine.
The original idea was, well, Ineed more work, right?
And I need more work for myclients, so how am I gonna do
that?
And it's like, oh, well I'llbuild this thing that tells them
what needs to be fixed on theirwebsite and you know, show them
their competitor data so thatthey're inclined to fix it,
(38:08):
which means they'll hire NorthStreet to do it right and it
becomes this nice littlecircuit.
But my hopes and dreams arethat.
There's way more requests comingin than I could ever handle, and
that as an entrepreneur in thecreative agency space, I don't
believe other agencies are mycompetition, even if they're, I
think that like we're all in ittogether and it's like there's
(38:30):
so much.
Work out there.
Yeah.
Plenty of fish
Russel (38:33):
in the sea for sure.
We're
Tom (38:34):
all so different, right?
So I make it a point to likejust stay in touch with other
agency owners.
I, I mean actually I have aweekly call that's been going on
for five years now with twoother agency owners.
Um, so just to say that like,I'm hoping that there's like an
agency partner.
To this and well, there is goingto be, and like I'd love to see
that grow.
(38:55):
And then North Street's in aplace where we're really picking
the projects that like really,really we really wanna work on
for one reason or another thatcome through Moon Vine.
And, we just continue like NorthStreet runs on really, really
great clients and like the, ourrelationship with them and just
always making sure that we'relike making them better just.
So adding new clients like thatto North Street, but not getting
(39:17):
to, I don't wanna get too big.
I've been a certain size.
I'm smaller than I've been in awhile, and I'm, I'm enjoying it
right now.
Russel (39:24):
I always say the name of the game of this is not to grow
something massive.
The name of the game is just toallow you to live the life you
want.
And that's what's mostimportant.
And again, sounds like you'removing in that direction or
already there to some degreetrying.
Tom (39:36):
No, I'm headed.
I'm headed.
Russel (39:37):
Headed.
Yeah.
There we go.
It's a journey, not adestination.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Well, very fascinating.
Can't wait to see how thatcontinues to shake out for you.
Um, so one last big question foryou, Tom.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made, they're born, made
more?
Tom (39:55):
Uh, I've hired a lot of people over the last 15 years
and I have also been in groupsof other, um, entrepreneurs and
business owners just throughgroups I've been in over the
years.
If there is something inside ofpeople that is, some might call
it hustle.
(40:16):
And I'm not talking about, youdon't have to be a business
owner.
I have a friend that is superentrepreneurial in his, you
know, job that's a littledifferent.
But like I'm telling you, man,it takes a special personality
type to be like, I don't know ifI'm gonna make payroll next week
or if I'm gonna make like half amillion dollars in the next six
months and be okay with that,right?
(40:38):
And like take really giantrisks.
For really big reward.
I just think it takes a certainpersonality type to like be able
to even absorb that.
Russel (40:50):
I think it does.
I think it does.
And I love what you even saidthere.
Not all entrepreneurs work in aown their own business and how
important that thought processis when, when I do think agent
owners fall that trap ofthinking, just anybody can have
that mindset, that ability, thatcapability.
And if we embrace it, that's nottrue, then we might better know
what to look for.
(41:11):
In that entrepreneurial spiritor whatever, if we feel like we
need that in our business.
That's a, a great lesson there.
Awesome, man.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout North Street, wanna know
more about ENT or Moon Vine,where can they go?
Tom (41:23):
Yeah, the easiest is tom@moonvine.io.
It's just the easiest toremember.
And Moon vine.io is the website.
It's placeholder, but you canput your email in there if you
wanna get like access to thething.
Whenever we feel like it's in aplace to, to share with the
public.
Russel (41:38):
Very nice.
Very nice.
Well, if you can find him onone, you can find on the other.
So go check that out folks.
Well, thank you so much, Tom,for taking the time outta your
busy schedule today, talkingabout the power of knowing your
financials, the power of purposein your business, and the always
powerful sharpening the tip ofthe spear in terms of
positioning and how you'reshowing up in the world.
(41:59):
Uh, appreciate you so muchtaking the time to share that
with us today.
Yeah, man, this is a blast.
Likewise, likewise.
Thank you for listening to anagency story podcast where every
story helps you write your own,subscribe, share, and join us
again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
(42:22):
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Tom (42:28):
This is just a cautionary tale for anyone who's gonna be
interviewing for a job.
Um.
Pre COVID.
So I interviewed a guy overvideo and it was strange'cause
it was video.
Like it was just this.
I was like, oh, this is novel.
Like I had never, it wasn'tsomething we were used to in our
everyday life, right?
And so I go into my little likeconference room in my office at
(42:48):
the time in lower Manhattan, andI get on the computer and I
don't know why, man, this guywas just in like a velvet, sort
of like Hugh Hefner style vest.
Uh, like robe, okay.
Like.
Nothing underneath, like justchest hair exposed.
And it was just like, it wasnever addressed through the
whole interview.
And I was like, I was trying toget my head around this guy.
(43:11):
He was interviewing for like adev developer position.
Okay.
Was super smart.
But like I just, I, it, theinterview ended and I was just
like, I came outta the room.
I'm like, that was one of theweirdest things ever.
But I will tell you, I think itwas top to symptoms.
Um, and if he's listening tothis interview, like, no harm,
I'm not gonna name it, but like,listen man, it was funny and
(43:33):
just so you know.
Yeah.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't
Russel (43:36):
do an interview again, but like, I feel like it's going
either way.
If you're that type and you,that's just who you are.
You don't care what other peoplethink.
You don't care.
Okay.
Or if you're wearing it as ajoke.
It's a risky move.
I'd say as an interviewcandidate, it's,
Tom (43:50):
that's what it's, you're gonna stand out.
You're gonna stand out, good orbad.
Russel (43:54):
That's funny.
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