January 5, 2025 • 33 mins
Company: Brand Viva Media
Owners: Mark Labriola II
Year Started: 2007
Employees: 1 – 10
What do you do after your dream music career ends and you’re laid off with no backup plan? Mark Labriola II went from the national spotlight on American Idol to building a successful content agency driven by grit, creativity, and an unshakable positive mindset. This episode explores the mindset shifts and tough moments that shaped his agency journey.
Key Takeaways
- Why having nothing to lose can be your biggest advantage in business
- The unexpected connection between childhood adversity and entrepreneurial drive
- How saying no more often helped Mark build a better business
- A practical mindset shift to stay present and calm, even when the money isn’t there yet
- Why podcasting became his agency’s most effective tool for building trust and authority
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, I'm your host
Russel.
In this episode we're joined byMark Labriola, the second, the
founder of Brand Viva Mediabased in Centennial, Colorado.
Mark shares his journey fromtouring as a musician to
building a podcast and videocontent agency known for turning
boring and too beautiful.
Not to mention he made it to thetop 50 on American Idol way back
(01:03):
in the day.
And this episode, we talk a lotabout the importance of a
positive mindset within thebusiness, especially in the face
of adversity and difficulttimes.
This is definitely evident inMark's story.
Starting out with a verytraumatic childhood situation,
all the way to how a pivotallayoff pushed Mark to transform
his side hustle into a full-timeventure and more.
Enjoy the story.
(01:25):
Welcome to the show today, Ihave Mark Labriola II with Brand
Viva Media with us here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Mark.
Mark (01:32):
Hey, thank you.
My pleasure.
So glad to be here.
Russel (01:35):
Another podcast pro, glad to have you on here.
Let's get straight to the point.
What does Brand Viva do and whodo you do it for?
Mark (01:41):
We are a podcast and video content agency.
We help people create thecontent that they use for
marketing.
A top of mind is first in linewhen it comes to business.
If you can create content on aconsistent basis, you can
constantly be in front of your,uh, perspective audience.
Russel (01:57):
Perfectly well put.
To the T, wonderful elevatorpitch.
Obviously we're on a podcast, soI want to learn a lot more about
what that looks like in terms ofyour service and how you got to
where you're at today.
But before we get to all thingsagency today, let's get back in
the DeLorean and back to thefuture as they say, what was
young Mark wanting to do withhis life?
Mark (02:17):
I kind of lived a crazy, uh, childhood.
This is a wild story, um, andwhen people Google me, I
actually, uh, made it to, uh,Hollywood on American Idol back
in season nine.
Part of my story is that my momkidnapped me when I was four
years old and we were on the runfor six years.
It's crazy because it's hard tostart any conversation with
(02:40):
like, hey, like, what, what wasyour elementary school?
It's like, well, we hoppedaround from, you know, state to
state and lived in Hawaii andAlaska.
I was in and out of school, um,but during that time I was very
much formed as a young person.
My mom, who was just a prettyeccentric woman, free spirited
(03:01):
kind of person was into music.
I would go to bars with her andstrip clubs and she would
perform and sing in like a top40 kind of band and I would see
that.
At a very young age I had a, um,a talent for singing and I was
kind of self aware about it.
Fast forward, when I was 10years old, my dad found me and
they ran the sting operation andmissing children got involved
(03:23):
and I, and they pulled me hereto Colorado.
Then I was here in Colorado withmy dad and really got involved
in, uh, church and singing andchoir and, um, youth
organizations and things likethat.
At a very young age, I wanted tobe a musician.
I wanted to be a singer.
I dreamed about being on theradio and performing for
thousands of people and all thatkind of stuff.
(03:44):
That was kind of the dream.
Russel (03:46):
That was the dream.
Mark (03:47):
Yeah, that was the dream.
That's kind of where my lifealways took me.
When I was a sophomore in highschool, I met some guys, uh, in
a youth group and, uh, we formeda band, uh, called Foolish
Things.
We started playing music,bowling alleys and, uh, youth
retreats and summer camps anddoing all that.
We ended up winning thisnational band competition.
(04:09):
Our freshman, sophomore year ofcollege that summer, we entered
this gospel music association,national band competition and we
won first place.
At that point, we got to recordin Gaither Studio in Indiana and
really just started pursuingmusic as a career.
I did that for most of mytwenties and we ended up getting
signed and I got to live mydream for a living.
(04:30):
We're on the radio.
We had a top 25 single onChristian radio and our record
was sold all over the world.
We did radio tours and festivalsand got to open for big bands
and play for thousands ofpeople.
My life was complete.
Everything I dreamed about doingI was doing.
Russel (04:45):
I'm going to pause there because I want to stop at that
young Mark and I'm picturingWill Ferrell in, in the Wedding
Crashers.
Just, I'm living the dream.
This thing that you've clearlydevoted yourself to and made the
focus of your efforts, right?
That's obviously a hard businessto, to have any kind of success
in and you were able to achievethat.
I do want to go back for asecond.
There's probably a billion waysto look at it.
(05:06):
I can't even imagine it tounderstand the experience that
you went through.
But it's interesting, I washaving a conversation the other
day when someone was talkingabout being entrepreneurial and
I guess there's some tests outthere, I need to do more
research about this called ACEs.
The premise of it is, isbasically measures some aspects
of, I don't know if it'snecessarily childhood trauma,
but just formation of childhoodand basically people that score
(05:26):
or entrepreneurs I should say,tend to score higher on this
test because and I don't know,we got into all very kind of
deep, but I don't know.
When you look at thatexperience, does that, does that
fit in the realm of traumatraumatic for you?
Mark (05:38):
Oh, yeah, 100%.
We lived in some very, uh,impoverished situations.
We were just poor and you'reit's fight or flight.
You're constantly trying tofigure out how you can survive
each and every day.
And then you just can have someof the worst moments of your
life, you know, in this, in thistime.
(05:58):
I think why that makes sense tome is because no matter how bad
things are, I've experiencedworse.
No matter how poor I am, I'vebeen poor.
I think there's an element ofwhen you have been at the very
bottom and have experienced theworst, everything slightly
above, that's better.
Russel (06:16):
Your tolerance is just higher.
It makes me think of Navy SEALs,right?
They put them through the worstpossible training so that when
you're actually in a fight orbattle scenario that it's like,
eh we, I've been through worse,and you know, so I'm not gonna
get flustered.
Mark (06:29):
Exactly.
I think too, for me, it's almostlike, oh, I, I know that no
matter how bad things get, theyget better.
There's that, that pattern too,of knowing like, okay, this is
hard, but I remember when it washard before and then it got
easier.
So I'm just going to keep going.
Russel (06:43):
There you go.
You alluded to that the dreamdid come to an end.
I wanna come back to that.
Obviously a big part of yourearly young adult life was doing
music and, and performing anddoing all these sorts of things.
Where to next?
How did that agency get formed?
Mark (06:56):
When the band was breaking up, I was pretty devastated.
But then I had this opportunityAmerican Idol was coming to
Denver.
They're playing at Mile HighStadium or, or setting up at
Mile High Stadium.
My dad was like, hey, you shouldgo try out to be on American
Idol.
At that point, I was a littlebit bitter and jaded towards the
music industry.
I felt like, I think I'm donewith this.
I've just spent the past, decadeof my life, like grinding and
(07:18):
pursuing this.
I think I'm ready to move on.
But he pushed and said, listen,he was living in Texas at the
time.
He's like, I'll drive up, fromDallas and I'll wait with you in
line.
I think you should just go, youknow, try this out.
I'd been married for a few yearsat this time, I had a two year
old.
I was ready just to move on tothe next chapter of my life.
But went ahead and, and wentdown to Mile High Stadium and
(07:40):
waited in line with 12, 000people.
I just kept making it past likeeach round.
There's several rounds that youdon't even see on TV.
You have to go in front ofproducers.
Even before you make it into thecelebrity rounds, you're going
through all these other roundsto make it through and when I
got to the celebrity rounds andI'm there with Simon and Randy
and, and our celebrity judge inDenver here was Victoria
(08:03):
Beckham.
It was like, oh wow.
This is what my life is for.
Russel (08:06):
What's her Spice name?
I can't think of it now.
What's her Spice name?
Victoria Beckham.
Mark (08:10):
I don't remember.
I'm trying to think, it wasn'tSporty Spice.
Russel (08:14):
No, definitely not.
I gotta Google this real quick.
You continue with your story andthen I'll interrupt with her
Spice name.
Mark (08:20):
You tell us which Spice Girl she was.
I kept making it past all theserounds and then it was like, oh
my gosh.
This is what I was, I'm supposedto do.
This is what I'm made for.
All this experience with theband and performing in front of
people, this has led me to thismoment.
I got a golden ticket toHollywood.
I was there for a few weeks andI made it past a few rounds in
Hollywood.
Then I got axed in the grouprounds where they have you sing
(08:42):
and dance and do all this sillystuff that just wasn't in my
vein.
I got axed and I was devastated.
I was completely heartbroken.
Russel (08:50):
How many people are you down to at this point?
Mark (08:52):
I was in a group less than 50.
You have the top 24 that make itto the weekly TV show.
But that season out of 120, 000people I made it into that
group.
I was lost and feeling prettydepressed and down and not sure
what I was going to do with mylife.
Up until that moment, I'd onlymade subs and pizzas for a
living.
I didn't go to college and I hadno formal training around
(09:16):
anything.
But I had this kid and a wifeand, and mortgage and I was
like, crap, I need to figuresomething out.
I got a job at the Apple store.
It was when Apple retail wasnew, up and coming.
I got a job at Apple because Iwas like, well, I like Mac
computers and I could talk aboutMacs all day and I know I can
sell them.
I started selling computers andthen I had a friend who's a
(09:37):
photographer and I picked up acamera and just started taking
photos of my kids and helpingout my friend from time to time.
He was like, hey, I need somevideo for this thing.
Do you think you could learnvideo?
I'd go to the library.
Dewey Decibel System back then.
We didn't really have likeYouTube and stuff so I had to,
you know, find books on videoediting and filming and all this
(09:57):
kind of stuff.
Just started teaching myselfthis skill of creativity.
I think being in a band andbeing a musician, you're around
a lot of art.
A lot of creative people,fashion, all this stuff.
I think I kind of gravitatetowards video and photography
because I had an eye for it.
I knew what looked good.
I knew what was high quality.
I was able to reproduce some ofthat stuff earlier on in that.
(10:20):
Then I just had a side hustle,like nights and weekends.
I was doing photos and videos.
Then during the day I wasworking a day job.
Russel (10:27):
Wow.
I just know how much work thatactually is to do a, to build a
side hustle, do a day job, be aparent, be a husband all those
things.
It just goes back to what you'resharing in the beginning, what
your threshold was used to, I'msure is what a part of able to
get you through that.
Mark (10:41):
And that's the thing is, I think I walked into everything
with so much joy and passionthat, uh, people just kind of
took notice of me.
I worked for Apple for aboutthree years in the mall, you
know, I was tired of smellinglike Cinnabon.
Russel (10:54):
I mean, that's not the worst smell.
Mark (10:55):
No, it's not the worst smell, but you know, when you
don't get holidays off andyou're working at 4am on the day
after Thanksgiving, and it waslike, I was tired of the mall.
With my computer expertise,Apple had sent me to Cupertino,
California to get certified as ahardware and software
technician.
I found a corporate job at theRE/MAX world headquarters.
(11:15):
It's stationed here in Colorado.
I got this very entry level helpdesk, IT position.
I'd get in the elevators on aMonday and I just be happy
because I'm thinking like, wow,you only have to work five days.
You get off every day at thesame time and you get holidays.
If the weather is bad, they letyou work from home.
I was like, this is amazing.
Every time you get in theelevator on a Monday, it's like,
(11:35):
people are like, oh, it'sMonday.
I'm like, yeah, it's thebeginning of the week.
It's so much possibility.
You never know what's going tohappen.
Or it'd be like, oh, it's socold outside.
I'm like, yeah, but did you wearsweaters and they're thinning.
Maybe I'll make some souptonight and it'll be a great.
I was always positive abouteverything that was going on and
people just kind of took note ofthat.
I quickly just started to bepromoted.
(11:55):
Everywhere I went, it was like,yeah, I can do that and, and be
positive and work hard.
I just kept having success likeeverywhere I went.
I quickly rose in as atechnology trainer at the RE/MAX
world headquarters.
I was training brokers onRE/MAX's tech, and I had this
show called the download where Iwas talking to agents about
technology.
I was doing that and still doingmy night hustle.
(12:17):
Side hustle nights and weekends.
My wife could stay home with thekids.
I was just burning the candle atboth ends.
But I was happy.
I was, uh, excited every day to,to do the things that I was
doing.
Russel (12:26):
You've gone this path, a very common path of side hustle
turned full hustle or not a sidehustle anymore.
Did that same energy carry intowhen you made that transition or
was it like oh crap, the stakesgot higher and, and changed your
mindset or not?
Mark (12:42):
No, I, sometimes in life you get thrown curve balls and
you are maybe discouraged andyou're put down, but if you can
just remind yourself that thingsare going to get better, that
it's not always going to be likethis I think that you can push
through.
Usually on the other side ofthat push there's success.
I had left RE/MAX and I was thedirector of creative media at
(13:05):
this real estate tech startuphere in town.
I was there for a few years andstill do my side hustle.
I think it was like the fall of2015 I was like I think I'm
going to try to go all in on myside hustle and do this, but I
want the security.
I'm going to save some money.
I'm going to make sure I have anice little buffer and then I'll
make the leap.
Well, uh, the first week ofJanuary of 2016 the company had
(13:28):
some huge funding not come inand they had to lay off half the
company.
I was a part of that layoff, noseverance, no savings.
It was just, hey, sorry, wegotta let you go.
At that point I was like, allright, I could go find another
director job somewhere, or Icould go all in on my side
hustle and see what comes ofthat.
One of those moments where youlook back and you're like, man,
(13:50):
why did I do that?
That was stupid.
But I would say that kind ofthroughout my whole life, it had
always been like, well, what'sthe worst that could happen?
Even American Idol, right?
It was like, well, the worstthat could happen is they just
say no and I've just wasted sometime.
But you I can always look backand say, oh, I tried and I
failed, it didn't work.
You know in Napoleon Dynamite,there's that Uncle Rico where
he's always like, you know, Icould have thrown a football
(14:12):
over the mountains.
He's always living in regret.
If the coach would have just puthim in, then he could have had
the success and been famous andall this stuff?
I think I approached everythingin my life like that, where it's
like, well, the worst thing thatcould happen is I could fail,
and then I could just move on tosomething else and not have to
worry about, well, what if?
With American Idol, it's likeyou sing in the shower and
you're like, oh, you know, I,I'm a pretty good singer.
(14:33):
I bet I could do that.
A lot of people think that.
They think like, oh, I could dothat.
Or they're very critical aboutother people's things or other
people's businesses.
It's like, well, why don't youjust go out and try it?
And then if it, if it doesn'twork out and you fail, well,
then at least you've provedyourself that it doesn't work,
and then you can try somethingelse.
I think there was an element ofthat too, where it's like, all
right, Let me go all in on myside hustle.
If it fails, I go get anotherdirector job somewhere and know
(14:56):
that like, all right, there'snot a need for that.
I did it, I didn't like it or Isuck at it and it didn't work
out and then I can just move onand not, not think about like,
well, what if?
Russel (15:06):
That's just such a great question to always ask yourself
when you're, maybe facingsomething.
I think I had a previous gueston the show that talked about,
hey, whenever you're uncertainabout certain, something, write
down your fears.
Write down what you're afraidof, and then just go through
that process, mentally or onpaper of, what's the worst that
can happen?
What am I really looking athere?
What am I really afraid of here?
Not the first person that alayoff has been the jumping off
(15:28):
point into starting an agency.
It's an unfortunately verycommon one.
But we just need that slightunsettling to just get us over
there and where it's like, well,you know, I'm already here, so
might as well walk in the frontdoor.
But I love how you kind of talkthrough that of just, you know,
really, really answering thatquestion for yourself and what's
the worst that can happen?
Mark (15:46):
And it wasn't always easy.
Especially in the beginning, youknow, there was times I didn't
know how I was going to pay mymortgage.
I didn't know how I was going toput food on the table for the,
you know, the family and it wasstressful.
I have a lot of anxiety andworry and doubts.
But I just kept showing up everyday.
I kept grinding and hustling andnot giving up and working hard.
I wasn't trying to just watchNetflix and hang out and work
(16:09):
for a couple hours.
It was like, no, I'm going toget up.
I'm going to work.
Going to work till 2am if I haveto, get these edits done.
I'm going to meet people.
It came to where I would havethis stress or worry or anxiety.
This is where my faith comesinto play, where I, I'd be
worried.
And then, in two weeks someonewould call and be like, hey, we
have a job for 7, 000 bucks.
Can you do it?
(16:29):
I'd be like, oh yeah, you know,I can.
It became one of those thingswhere that kind of stuff started
happening enough.
I started thinking like, well,what if I started living my life
with expectancy?
Because if two weeks earlier Iknew that in two weeks, someone
was going to call me, I'd bemore present with my family.
I wouldn't be stressed and Iwouldn't be worried.
I started thinking like, allright, let me try to live in the
(16:49):
present and expect the blessing,expect God's blessing in my
life.
Really just started focusing onthat mantra of like, being
present.
Don't worry about tomorrow andexpect God's blessing.
Every day would just try to, andit wasn't always easy.
After eight and a half years ofdoing this, there's, every day I
have to focus on those thingsand, and not worry about how
things are gonna work out, butknow that they're gonna work
(17:10):
out.
Not letting that crush myspirits or discourage me, but
just to keep moving forward.
It seems to always, always workout.
Russel (17:16):
I think I appreciate all the more now, one in just
working with a lot of folks, buteven in my own self.
When I think back at differenttimes and running an agency that
I didn't appreciate how muchimportance of mindset was.
All the things that kind of gointo your saying, and I
definitely appreciate it now.
That is our engine.
If we were a race car driver,that's our race car.
We've just got to keep thatthing fine tuned and in the
(17:37):
right place.
Mark (17:38):
In the Bible, you know, it says as a man thinketh so is he.
So what are you thinking aboutand who, and who are you putting
your trust in in this world orare you putting it in something
beyond yourself?
That brings a lot of comfort,too, during difficult times
because now it's like, allright, I'm not a hundred percent
in control of this and I can beat peace with wherever this
thing goes.
Russel (17:57):
We're kind of still, you know, kind of in the depths of
your, your early stage, butthat, that applies whether
you're eight and a half yearsinto it, 25 years into it,
starting tomorrow whatever thecase might be.
I do want to switch gears for aminute.
Wonderful, inspiring message outthere for everyone listening
that you've already shared.
It sounds like you've been inthe same vein as far as your
product or service, since theearly days, but I imagine just
(18:19):
some of your mindset, it soundslike maybe shift in terms of how
you're delivering it andultimately what you're trying to
build here.
If you don't mind kind of justgoing into the depths of your
product evolution, as you lookat it through the lens of your
agency?
Mark (18:31):
In the beginning, it was kind of like, be all things to
everyone because I just need todo whatever I can to make a
buck.
It's like learning graphicdesign and doing business cards
and doing branding andcommercials and photos and doing
all this stuff.
No matter what someone had, Iwould say, yeah, I'll, I'll do
it.
A lot of times it's just metrying to figure things out,
(18:53):
figuring out how to do things.
I think being curious and beingable to learn and learn quickly
is very beneficial.
As I started to grow from a oneman band to then like hiring
some contractors, I startedthinking, all right, like, what
do we, like, what do I reallylike doing?
What are some things that I'mreally good at and things that
(19:13):
we've done really well?
Over the years, it's beenevolving into saying no to the
things that we're not expertsin, whether that's SEO or PPC or
like full brand developments.
In the very beginning it was, wewere helping solopreneurs create
personal brands and, and I thinkwe do that really well.
(19:34):
But then sometimes it would cometo like these really in depth
branding projects for companieswhere it's like, you need to
have all sorts of avatars andjust these really deep kind of
work that, I actually hate it.
Even doing like full blowncommercials, uh, where we had to
hire tons of crew and have all,and it's like, man, I really
don't like doing that kind ofstuff, you know?
(19:56):
It's been really just trying tolike hone in on the things that
I feel like bring life to whatwe do and that we really enjoy
and not just trying to be allthings to all people.
Podcasting is one of thosethings where, I always loved
podcasting.
I was a big fan of radio as ayoung kid.
I always pretended to be a radioDJ.
My buddy and I would situnderneath his bunk bed and we
(20:17):
had one of those dicta phones.
Remember the ones that had likethe microphone attached to it
and you could put your littletape in there, hit record.
We'd like record songs off theradio and then we would, you
know, talk on the mic like, youknow, well, the weather is
really great out there, Jim.
Look at the traffic on I-25.
I always loved the radio and theidea of being a DJ.
In 2005, I remember we were inNashville recording, uh, our
(20:41):
second record.
There was this popular sciencemagazine and it had this, all
this information about RSS feedsand how you can create this feed
on the internet, upload MP3s andthen iPods would be able to
connect through iTunes and suckdown a, you know, this MP3 file.
I was like, wow, this is socool.
This is like having your owninternet radio show.
(21:02):
I started a podcast, um, andjust as a hobby for fun.
Throughout the years I wouldalways come back to doing it as
something that I enjoyed andthat allowed me to meet
interesting people and becurious, you know, probably
similar to what you do here.
I just did that as for fun as Iwas doing Brand Viva and, and
doing all this.
And this is the other thing Iwant to share with everyone: so
(21:23):
many people are chomping at thebit to do their own thing and
start their own business and,and move their side hustle to a
full time, you know, gig.
But I would just say, be contentwith where you're at and look
for ways to provide value toother people within your sphere.
Because I will say that Iwouldn't be where I'm at today
if it wasn't for all the jobsthat I worked and all the people
(21:44):
that I met and all therelationships that I built over
the years.
I wouldn't be where I'm at if itwasn't for me being present in
the job that I was working.
I can almost look back at everyclient we've worked with and
pinpoint it back all the way tolike a job I worked where I met
somebody who then, when I wentoff and did my own thing, they
introduced me to somebody or gotme an opportunity.
(22:06):
I just wanna encourage people'cause I, I know that I, I
remember where it's like, man, Iwanna start my own thing.
You're always daydreaming andthinking about what's next and
how you can make that leap andyou're never really present in
what you're doing.
Just think that the thing thatyou're currently doing could be
the stepping stone to where youwanna be.
How can you do what you're doingright now with excellence?
Russel (22:25):
It really speaks to, and I do talk to a lot of folks and
look, the amount of risk andsweat and energy that we have to
put into this thing.
It's a tremendous amount ofeffort.
It is not worth it at the day ifit's just paying bills per se.
There's gotta be more to it thanthat.
How important it is, just goesback to that mindset piece of
you've got to love what you do.
Not to say that you don't haveto do things you don't want to
(22:46):
do so you can get to do thingsyou love to do, but we've got to
engineer this thing so thatwe're doing what we love.
It sounds like that's been agreat part of your journey and
your evolution is, is continuingto recalibrate, reevaluate.
Hey, am I doing what I want todo?
How does that look in the fabricof the business?
Mark (23:03):
Yeah, totally.
I started to say no to thethings that we didn't like doing
and that we weren't great at,but it was like, I just need to
make a buck and sort of sayingyes to the things that we did
like doing and that things thatwe were really excellent in.
Podcasting was one of thosethings because I had had my own
podcast and I, I knew a lotabout it and I had been doing it
for several years.
I had a lot of skill around it.
(23:23):
I just started seeing how itcould be used to build
authority, build relationship,create content, and present
yourself as a thought leader indifferent spaces.
Funny enough, so I had my show,How'd You Get Here?
Because I worked at RE/MAX, Ihad known someone who had worked
their way up from the bottom allthe way to the CEO of the
(23:43):
company.
I reached out to that person andsaid, hey, I'd love for you to
come on to my show and just chatabout your journey.
I had him on and we just startedtalking and then he went back to
his team and said, hey, we needto do a podcast.
This is really great.
That was my foray into likedoing podcasts as one of the
main things as our agency.
(24:03):
Once we started doing it there,it was kind of like, we had a
few other clients that wereinterested in it.
Then it became one of thosethings where it's just natural
to use it as more of a tool tobuild your business instead of
trying to become the next JoeRogan or Mystery Science
Theater, whatever it might be,where it's like, it's not really
about getting millions andmillions of downloads.
It's really about creatingcontent on a consistent basis,
(24:24):
presenting yourself as a thoughtleader and getting access to
people that normally youwouldn't be able to get access
to.
When I changed the mind mindsetaround that, then it really just
started to take off and besomething where it was like,
okay this is how we do thisthing here at Brand Viva and how
we offer it and how it canbenefit, you know, our users or
our clients.
That's the one, one pillar ofwhat we do is podcasting.
(24:45):
The next is video content.
Really that's tutorial videos,educational content, how to
videos.
We do commercials and brand typestuff, but I always say like the
boring stuff is what we reallyexcel at.
The things that, that kind oftake like a crappy webinar or a
bad slideshow or a bad onlinecourse and turn it into
(25:05):
something like beautiful.
That's where we focus.
Then we do headshots.
We do corporate headshots.
You need to refresh yourcompany's LinkedIn profiles or
your sales team's profiles orjust have great images on your
website, we do that too.
Those are like the three mainthings that we do.
As an agency, we're always justtrying to solve problems for our
clients.
Whether that's, they need newbranding materials or they want
(25:28):
to refresh their brand or theyneed a new website.
All those are ancillary things.
We can support in, but, but asfar as our foot forward, it's
like we create the content thatused for marketing.
Russel (25:36):
I hope you use that as a tagline.
We make boring, beautiful, orwe're good at boring stuff.
Maybe that would work.
Mark (25:42):
I'll have to like, listen back and be like, all right,
what did I say here?
So we can use that as a slogan.
Russel (25:47):
One of the things I know you'd mentioned before is some
of the challenges behind anagency business is we got to
sweat for every dollar we earnin some capacity.
If we get really good, thosedollars that we sweat for are
more than the dollars we used tosweat for.
Sometimes that presents scalablechallenges.
It sounds like you're working inthat direction of just, how do
you make this model that youhave more scalable beyond a
dollar or sweat for everydollar?
Mark (26:08):
In the early years it was just a lifestyle business,
right?
I woke up every day, it was justme.
Then as I started growing,hiring W2 employees and doing
all this stuff.
It's a lifestyle business, butI'm also providing for the
lifestyle of my employees andother contractors and stuff like
that.
But then over the years I'vereally started to think like,
all right, what's next?
You have to have a selfawareness of, I think especially
in this industry, and this mightoffend some people, but in the
(26:30):
creative industry, it really isa young man's game.
It's one of those things whereyou have to have this vigor and
this passion and excitementabout it.
You have to be constantlylearning new things and new
strategies and what Googlealgorithm changed.
There's just a lot to learn.
Unfortunately, I think there's alot of people who just try to
hang on too long and they eitherdon't evolve with the industry
(26:51):
and so everything that they dois a little bit outdated and,
boring, or they just aren'tproviding any value back to
their audience.
In that case, their businessisn't going to grow.
But for me, it was it's beenmore now over the past year,
I've been thinking, all right,how do I get out of this?
In the beginning I was doing allthe things and so now I've
worked myself out of all thedoing and I focus more on
business development and growth.
But then now I'm at this placewhere it's like, okay, the
(27:13):
business really depends on me,right?
My relationships, me going outand networking, the, that the
content that I put online,that's building the brand.
The next phase really is, is howdo I take this to, um, either
completely remove myself andhave this kind of machine
running by itself with sales andmarketing and all these other
kinds of things, or how do Ibuild something that is easily
(27:35):
sold?
How do I make something that Ican sell?
To do that, you have to have agreat system, a great process, a
great lead source.
Those are the kind of thosethree things that I'm thinking
about over the next like threeto five years of like, okay, how
do I build something that is notdependent on necessarily a, a
service that we're providing?
(27:55):
Because, and I don't know, youmight know this better than me.
You interview a ton of peopleand you have a lot of knowledge.
I'd be curious to hear to yourthoughts on that because to me,
it seems like every businessthat's really successful at that
have some sort of widget, right?
That it's okay, if I can sellthis widget and reach enough
people to buy my widget, then Ihave a business that's creating
this passive income or thisincome that's being generated by
(28:17):
digital advertising or SEO orwhatever that might be.
What are your thoughts on that?
Cause I'm sure you hear that alot of people trying to figure
out, okay.
What's the next phase?
How do I get out of thisbusiness?
Russel (28:27):
The agency industry was born of just, right?
Time for money, time for money,time for money.
I think in the last, I don'tknow, five, 10 years, maybe
let's say for specifically fiveyears, we're realizing that this
is painful.
This whole notion ofproductizing your agency is
certainly coming about.
I think we can create, createthis with service.
It doesn't have to be a widget,a package of standard thing.
We can still have some of thisbespoke, this creativity, this
(28:49):
strategy.
We just have to find all thepieces that, that we can just
find ways to scale down theireffort.
It can be just small parts.
Leveraging lower cost talent todo very simple parts of the
process and leave our morestrategic talent to do the
bigger stuff.
That's still some time for moneybut, but we're lowering our cost
of goods sold, if you will, forsome of the output we're doing.
(29:11):
It's kind of almost an 80/20rule.
What is the 20 percent of effortthat's producing 80 percent of
the results and spend more timeon that and whittling out the
opposite effect of what's the 80percent of our effort that's
only producing 20 percent of ourresults?
Mark (29:23):
That's really hard.
I think too, as far as in acreative space, at least.
There's an element of you havean eye or you don't have an eye.
You're creative or you're notcreative.
I think it's been difficult tooutsource some of that
creativity.
I tried to work with some ofthese outsourcing companies
where it's like, oh, they're inBrazil or the Philippines or
something like that.
Just the level of quality thatwe've built our brand on and the
things that we do isn't there inthose spaces.
(29:45):
Either you have to keep lookingat, cause I'm sure there's
extremely talented people inother countries that, work for a
more affordable wage than whatwe have here in America.
Some of the designers and motiongraph, I mean, it's expensive.
Hundreds of dollars an hour todo stuff.
I'm an agency.
How can I mark up that, thosefees in order to make it
profitable for us as well?
I think that's just one of thedifficult things, but I do see
(30:07):
that it's like, man, if youcould figure that piece out on
the creative side of things,then I think you could
definitely, you know, scale andbe a lot more profitable.
Russel (30:15):
If you can do that, cause to the point, that, that
type of talent is, is more rare.
It's the 80/20 rule again,that's 20 percent of the
marketplace, generally speaking.
But I, I still think it's, it'smore of how do we get that
talent?
We all know we do things thatare admin work or just how can
we take a much of that away sothat most of their time is
focused on the high valuecreative work?
It's a whittling process, not a,not a cut and dry aspect of it.
(30:38):
Man, this has been a wonderfulconversation.
You've shared so many wonderfulthoughts so far.
I would love to make this a twohour podcast episode, let me
just ask the big kind of finalquestion for folks is, are
entrepreneurs born or are theymade?
Mark (30:51):
Oh, that is a great question.
I want to say it's a little bitof both.
Because I think that anyone canlearn the work ethic and they
can learn the grit and they candevelop that way.
But then there's also, I thinkthere's this thing that's just
broken in our brains where we'rejust not afraid.
I think I'm just messed up andwhen everyone else is afraid,
(31:12):
I'm just running towards the,you know, the fire.
Russel (31:15):
That's probably the best one I've heard right now.
We're a little bit crazy.
We're a little bit broken.
We've endured some, know, traumain life.
That's some good pre early daysof someone in a, you know,
giving a business loan orsomething like that.
Hey, how much childhood traumahave you had?
How crazy are you?
That's going to make adetermination of whether they're
actually going to give you thisloan or not.
That's a great thought.
If people want to know moreabout Brand Viva Media, where
(31:36):
can they go my man?
Mark (31:37):
Just BrandVivaMedia.com.
BrandViva.com.
All lead to the same place.
You can hit me up on LinkedIn.
Love to answer questions or talkto anybody who's curious.
I love helping people out whoare further down the rungs than
I am so I can, you know, givethem guidance and just enrich
their lives however possible.
Russel (31:53):
You have another podcast as well, or a renamed podcast,
The Friday Habits.
Check that as well.
You've got a lot of greatcontent out there that's very
applicable to the agency space.
Mark (32:02):
That's right.
Russel (32:03):
Thank you again for taking the time outta your day
to share these wonderfulinsights and all the places
you've been and come andexplored and learned.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share that with everyone
today
Mark (32:13):
My pleasure man.
Be present.
Don't worry about tomorrow andexpect a blessing.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(32:36):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
One of the hardest things, especially when you're first
(32:58):
learning out is all thepressures and stress that you
have.
Especially with videoproduction.
If you've ever done videoproduction or have been behind a
camera and you've been, youknow, stressed and you're
thinking about all the things.
Is the audio working, is thevideo working?
The biggest thing is likehitting that record button.
There's been so many times whereI've like looked at the camera
and been like, yeah, everythinglooks good.
Then I tell the person to goahead and it's like, wait, I
(33:20):
didn't hit the record button.
That is just the worst.
You feel sick to your stomachand you're like, I'm an idiot.
I didn't hit record.
Russel (33:27):
I've done it one time on the podcast.
I forgot to hit record, did awhole episode.
Mark (33:30):
Where it's like, crap.
It happens.
You've got so much stuff goingon your brain.
That's why as soon as you canoutsource the better.
Have somebody else focused onhitting the record button.
Russel (33:38):
There you go.
That's by the scalability.
You just hire one person.
All they do is show up and theyhit record and, and then you
don't, yeah, you take all thatstress so someone can be more
creative.
There we go.
We solved the world's problems.
Mark (33:47):
That's right.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, I'm your host
Russel.
In this episode we're joined byMark Labriola, the second, the
founder of Brand Viva Mediabased in Centennial, Colorado.
Mark shares his journey fromtouring as a musician to
building a podcast and videocontent agency known for turning
boring and too beautiful.
Not to mention he made it to thetop 50 on American Idol way back
(01:03):
in the day.
And this episode, we talk a lotabout the importance of a
positive mindset within thebusiness, especially in the face
of adversity and difficulttimes.
This is definitely evident inMark's story.
Starting out with a verytraumatic childhood situation,
all the way to how a pivotallayoff pushed Mark to transform
his side hustle into a full-timeventure and more.
Enjoy the story.
(01:25):
Welcome to the show today, Ihave Mark Labriola II with Brand
Viva Media with us here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Mark.
Mark (01:32):
Hey, thank you.
My pleasure.
So glad to be here.
Russel (01:35):
Another podcast pro, glad to have you on here.
Let's get straight to the point.
What does Brand Viva do and whodo you do it for?
Mark (01:41):
We are a podcast and video content agency.
We help people create thecontent that they use for
marketing.
A top of mind is first in linewhen it comes to business.
If you can create content on aconsistent basis, you can
constantly be in front of your,uh, perspective audience.
Russel (01:57):
Perfectly well put.
To the T, wonderful elevatorpitch.
Obviously we're on a podcast, soI want to learn a lot more about
what that looks like in terms ofyour service and how you got to
where you're at today.
But before we get to all thingsagency today, let's get back in
the DeLorean and back to thefuture as they say, what was
young Mark wanting to do withhis life?
Mark (02:17):
I kind of lived a crazy, uh, childhood.
This is a wild story, um, andwhen people Google me, I
actually, uh, made it to, uh,Hollywood on American Idol back
in season nine.
Part of my story is that my momkidnapped me when I was four
years old and we were on the runfor six years.
It's crazy because it's hard tostart any conversation with
(02:40):
like, hey, like, what, what wasyour elementary school?
It's like, well, we hoppedaround from, you know, state to
state and lived in Hawaii andAlaska.
I was in and out of school, um,but during that time I was very
much formed as a young person.
My mom, who was just a prettyeccentric woman, free spirited
(03:01):
kind of person was into music.
I would go to bars with her andstrip clubs and she would
perform and sing in like a top40 kind of band and I would see
that.
At a very young age I had a, um,a talent for singing and I was
kind of self aware about it.
Fast forward, when I was 10years old, my dad found me and
they ran the sting operation andmissing children got involved
(03:23):
and I, and they pulled me hereto Colorado.
Then I was here in Colorado withmy dad and really got involved
in, uh, church and singing andchoir and, um, youth
organizations and things likethat.
At a very young age, I wanted tobe a musician.
I wanted to be a singer.
I dreamed about being on theradio and performing for
thousands of people and all thatkind of stuff.
(03:44):
That was kind of the dream.
Russel (03:46):
That was the dream.
Mark (03:47):
Yeah, that was the dream.
That's kind of where my lifealways took me.
When I was a sophomore in highschool, I met some guys, uh, in
a youth group and, uh, we formeda band, uh, called Foolish
Things.
We started playing music,bowling alleys and, uh, youth
retreats and summer camps anddoing all that.
We ended up winning thisnational band competition.
(04:09):
Our freshman, sophomore year ofcollege that summer, we entered
this gospel music association,national band competition and we
won first place.
At that point, we got to recordin Gaither Studio in Indiana and
really just started pursuingmusic as a career.
I did that for most of mytwenties and we ended up getting
signed and I got to live mydream for a living.
(04:30):
We're on the radio.
We had a top 25 single onChristian radio and our record
was sold all over the world.
We did radio tours and festivalsand got to open for big bands
and play for thousands ofpeople.
My life was complete.
Everything I dreamed about doingI was doing.
Russel (04:45):
I'm going to pause there because I want to stop at that
young Mark and I'm picturingWill Ferrell in, in the Wedding
Crashers.
Just, I'm living the dream.
This thing that you've clearlydevoted yourself to and made the
focus of your efforts, right?
That's obviously a hard businessto, to have any kind of success
in and you were able to achievethat.
I do want to go back for asecond.
There's probably a billion waysto look at it.
(05:06):
I can't even imagine it tounderstand the experience that
you went through.
But it's interesting, I washaving a conversation the other
day when someone was talkingabout being entrepreneurial and
I guess there's some tests outthere, I need to do more
research about this called ACEs.
The premise of it is, isbasically measures some aspects
of, I don't know if it'snecessarily childhood trauma,
but just formation of childhoodand basically people that score
(05:26):
or entrepreneurs I should say,tend to score higher on this
test because and I don't know,we got into all very kind of
deep, but I don't know.
When you look at thatexperience, does that, does that
fit in the realm of traumatraumatic for you?
Mark (05:38):
Oh, yeah, 100%.
We lived in some very, uh,impoverished situations.
We were just poor and you'reit's fight or flight.
You're constantly trying tofigure out how you can survive
each and every day.
And then you just can have someof the worst moments of your
life, you know, in this, in thistime.
(05:58):
I think why that makes sense tome is because no matter how bad
things are, I've experiencedworse.
No matter how poor I am, I'vebeen poor.
I think there's an element ofwhen you have been at the very
bottom and have experienced theworst, everything slightly
above, that's better.
Russel (06:16):
Your tolerance is just higher.
It makes me think of Navy SEALs,right?
They put them through the worstpossible training so that when
you're actually in a fight orbattle scenario that it's like,
eh we, I've been through worse,and you know, so I'm not gonna
get flustered.
Mark (06:29):
Exactly.
I think too, for me, it's almostlike, oh, I, I know that no
matter how bad things get, theyget better.
There's that, that pattern too,of knowing like, okay, this is
hard, but I remember when it washard before and then it got
easier.
So I'm just going to keep going.
Russel (06:43):
There you go.
You alluded to that the dreamdid come to an end.
I wanna come back to that.
Obviously a big part of yourearly young adult life was doing
music and, and performing anddoing all these sorts of things.
Where to next?
How did that agency get formed?
Mark (06:56):
When the band was breaking up, I was pretty devastated.
But then I had this opportunityAmerican Idol was coming to
Denver.
They're playing at Mile HighStadium or, or setting up at
Mile High Stadium.
My dad was like, hey, you shouldgo try out to be on American
Idol.
At that point, I was a littlebit bitter and jaded towards the
music industry.
I felt like, I think I'm donewith this.
I've just spent the past, decadeof my life, like grinding and
(07:18):
pursuing this.
I think I'm ready to move on.
But he pushed and said, listen,he was living in Texas at the
time.
He's like, I'll drive up, fromDallas and I'll wait with you in
line.
I think you should just go, youknow, try this out.
I'd been married for a few yearsat this time, I had a two year
old.
I was ready just to move on tothe next chapter of my life.
But went ahead and, and wentdown to Mile High Stadium and
(07:40):
waited in line with 12, 000people.
I just kept making it past likeeach round.
There's several rounds that youdon't even see on TV.
You have to go in front ofproducers.
Even before you make it into thecelebrity rounds, you're going
through all these other roundsto make it through and when I
got to the celebrity rounds andI'm there with Simon and Randy
and, and our celebrity judge inDenver here was Victoria
(08:03):
Beckham.
It was like, oh wow.
This is what my life is for.
Russel (08:06):
What's her Spice name?
I can't think of it now.
What's her Spice name?
Victoria Beckham.
Mark (08:10):
I don't remember.
I'm trying to think, it wasn'tSporty Spice.
Russel (08:14):
No, definitely not.
I gotta Google this real quick.
You continue with your story andthen I'll interrupt with her
Spice name.
Mark (08:20):
You tell us which Spice Girl she was.
I kept making it past all theserounds and then it was like, oh
my gosh.
This is what I was, I'm supposedto do.
This is what I'm made for.
All this experience with theband and performing in front of
people, this has led me to thismoment.
I got a golden ticket toHollywood.
I was there for a few weeks andI made it past a few rounds in
Hollywood.
Then I got axed in the grouprounds where they have you sing
(08:42):
and dance and do all this sillystuff that just wasn't in my
vein.
I got axed and I was devastated.
I was completely heartbroken.
Russel (08:50):
How many people are you down to at this point?
Mark (08:52):
I was in a group less than 50.
You have the top 24 that make itto the weekly TV show.
But that season out of 120, 000people I made it into that
group.
I was lost and feeling prettydepressed and down and not sure
what I was going to do with mylife.
Up until that moment, I'd onlymade subs and pizzas for a
living.
I didn't go to college and I hadno formal training around
(09:16):
anything.
But I had this kid and a wifeand, and mortgage and I was
like, crap, I need to figuresomething out.
I got a job at the Apple store.
It was when Apple retail wasnew, up and coming.
I got a job at Apple because Iwas like, well, I like Mac
computers and I could talk aboutMacs all day and I know I can
sell them.
I started selling computers andthen I had a friend who's a
(09:37):
photographer and I picked up acamera and just started taking
photos of my kids and helpingout my friend from time to time.
He was like, hey, I need somevideo for this thing.
Do you think you could learnvideo?
I'd go to the library.
Dewey Decibel System back then.
We didn't really have likeYouTube and stuff so I had to,
you know, find books on videoediting and filming and all this
(09:57):
kind of stuff.
Just started teaching myselfthis skill of creativity.
I think being in a band andbeing a musician, you're around
a lot of art.
A lot of creative people,fashion, all this stuff.
I think I kind of gravitatetowards video and photography
because I had an eye for it.
I knew what looked good.
I knew what was high quality.
I was able to reproduce some ofthat stuff earlier on in that.
(10:20):
Then I just had a side hustle,like nights and weekends.
I was doing photos and videos.
Then during the day I wasworking a day job.
Russel (10:27):
Wow.
I just know how much work thatactually is to do a, to build a
side hustle, do a day job, be aparent, be a husband all those
things.
It just goes back to what you'resharing in the beginning, what
your threshold was used to, I'msure is what a part of able to
get you through that.
Mark (10:41):
And that's the thing is, I think I walked into everything
with so much joy and passionthat, uh, people just kind of
took notice of me.
I worked for Apple for aboutthree years in the mall, you
know, I was tired of smellinglike Cinnabon.
Russel (10:54):
I mean, that's not the worst smell.
Mark (10:55):
No, it's not the worst smell, but you know, when you
don't get holidays off andyou're working at 4am on the day
after Thanksgiving, and it waslike, I was tired of the mall.
With my computer expertise,Apple had sent me to Cupertino,
California to get certified as ahardware and software
technician.
I found a corporate job at theRE/MAX world headquarters.
(11:15):
It's stationed here in Colorado.
I got this very entry level helpdesk, IT position.
I'd get in the elevators on aMonday and I just be happy
because I'm thinking like, wow,you only have to work five days.
You get off every day at thesame time and you get holidays.
If the weather is bad, they letyou work from home.
I was like, this is amazing.
Every time you get in theelevator on a Monday, it's like,
(11:35):
people are like, oh, it'sMonday.
I'm like, yeah, it's thebeginning of the week.
It's so much possibility.
You never know what's going tohappen.
Or it'd be like, oh, it's socold outside.
I'm like, yeah, but did you wearsweaters and they're thinning.
Maybe I'll make some souptonight and it'll be a great.
I was always positive abouteverything that was going on and
people just kind of took note ofthat.
I quickly just started to bepromoted.
(11:55):
Everywhere I went, it was like,yeah, I can do that and, and be
positive and work hard.
I just kept having success likeeverywhere I went.
I quickly rose in as atechnology trainer at the RE/MAX
world headquarters.
I was training brokers onRE/MAX's tech, and I had this
show called the download where Iwas talking to agents about
technology.
I was doing that and still doingmy night hustle.
(12:17):
Side hustle nights and weekends.
My wife could stay home with thekids.
I was just burning the candle atboth ends.
But I was happy.
I was, uh, excited every day to,to do the things that I was
doing.
Russel (12:26):
You've gone this path, a very common path of side hustle
turned full hustle or not a sidehustle anymore.
Did that same energy carry intowhen you made that transition or
was it like oh crap, the stakesgot higher and, and changed your
mindset or not?
Mark (12:42):
No, I, sometimes in life you get thrown curve balls and
you are maybe discouraged andyou're put down, but if you can
just remind yourself that thingsare going to get better, that
it's not always going to be likethis I think that you can push
through.
Usually on the other side ofthat push there's success.
I had left RE/MAX and I was thedirector of creative media at
(13:05):
this real estate tech startuphere in town.
I was there for a few years andstill do my side hustle.
I think it was like the fall of2015 I was like I think I'm
going to try to go all in on myside hustle and do this, but I
want the security.
I'm going to save some money.
I'm going to make sure I have anice little buffer and then I'll
make the leap.
Well, uh, the first week ofJanuary of 2016 the company had
(13:28):
some huge funding not come inand they had to lay off half the
company.
I was a part of that layoff, noseverance, no savings.
It was just, hey, sorry, wegotta let you go.
At that point I was like, allright, I could go find another
director job somewhere, or Icould go all in on my side
hustle and see what comes ofthat.
One of those moments where youlook back and you're like, man,
(13:50):
why did I do that?
That was stupid.
But I would say that kind ofthroughout my whole life, it had
always been like, well, what'sthe worst that could happen?
Even American Idol, right?
It was like, well, the worstthat could happen is they just
say no and I've just wasted sometime.
But you I can always look backand say, oh, I tried and I
failed, it didn't work.
You know in Napoleon Dynamite,there's that Uncle Rico where
he's always like, you know, Icould have thrown a football
(14:12):
over the mountains.
He's always living in regret.
If the coach would have just puthim in, then he could have had
the success and been famous andall this stuff?
I think I approached everythingin my life like that, where it's
like, well, the worst thing thatcould happen is I could fail,
and then I could just move on tosomething else and not have to
worry about, well, what if?
With American Idol, it's likeyou sing in the shower and
you're like, oh, you know, I,I'm a pretty good singer.
(14:33):
I bet I could do that.
A lot of people think that.
They think like, oh, I could dothat.
Or they're very critical aboutother people's things or other
people's businesses.
It's like, well, why don't youjust go out and try it?
And then if it, if it doesn'twork out and you fail, well,
then at least you've provedyourself that it doesn't work,
and then you can try somethingelse.
I think there was an element ofthat too, where it's like, all
right, Let me go all in on myside hustle.
If it fails, I go get anotherdirector job somewhere and know
(14:56):
that like, all right, there'snot a need for that.
I did it, I didn't like it or Isuck at it and it didn't work
out and then I can just move onand not, not think about like,
well, what if?
Russel (15:06):
That's just such a great question to always ask yourself
when you're, maybe facingsomething.
I think I had a previous gueston the show that talked about,
hey, whenever you're uncertainabout certain, something, write
down your fears.
Write down what you're afraidof, and then just go through
that process, mentally or onpaper of, what's the worst that
can happen?
What am I really looking athere?
What am I really afraid of here?
Not the first person that alayoff has been the jumping off
(15:28):
point into starting an agency.
It's an unfortunately verycommon one.
But we just need that slightunsettling to just get us over
there and where it's like, well,you know, I'm already here, so
might as well walk in the frontdoor.
But I love how you kind of talkthrough that of just, you know,
really, really answering thatquestion for yourself and what's
the worst that can happen?
Mark (15:46):
And it wasn't always easy.
Especially in the beginning, youknow, there was times I didn't
know how I was going to pay mymortgage.
I didn't know how I was going toput food on the table for the,
you know, the family and it wasstressful.
I have a lot of anxiety andworry and doubts.
But I just kept showing up everyday.
I kept grinding and hustling andnot giving up and working hard.
I wasn't trying to just watchNetflix and hang out and work
(16:09):
for a couple hours.
It was like, no, I'm going toget up.
I'm going to work.
Going to work till 2am if I haveto, get these edits done.
I'm going to meet people.
It came to where I would havethis stress or worry or anxiety.
This is where my faith comesinto play, where I, I'd be
worried.
And then, in two weeks someonewould call and be like, hey, we
have a job for 7, 000 bucks.
Can you do it?
(16:29):
I'd be like, oh yeah, you know,I can.
It became one of those thingswhere that kind of stuff started
happening enough.
I started thinking like, well,what if I started living my life
with expectancy?
Because if two weeks earlier Iknew that in two weeks, someone
was going to call me, I'd bemore present with my family.
I wouldn't be stressed and Iwouldn't be worried.
I started thinking like, allright, let me try to live in the
(16:49):
present and expect the blessing,expect God's blessing in my
life.
Really just started focusing onthat mantra of like, being
present.
Don't worry about tomorrow andexpect God's blessing.
Every day would just try to, andit wasn't always easy.
After eight and a half years ofdoing this, there's, every day I
have to focus on those thingsand, and not worry about how
things are gonna work out, butknow that they're gonna work
(17:10):
out.
Not letting that crush myspirits or discourage me, but
just to keep moving forward.
It seems to always, always workout.
Russel (17:16):
I think I appreciate all the more now, one in just
working with a lot of folks, buteven in my own self.
When I think back at differenttimes and running an agency that
I didn't appreciate how muchimportance of mindset was.
All the things that kind of gointo your saying, and I
definitely appreciate it now.
That is our engine.
If we were a race car driver,that's our race car.
We've just got to keep thatthing fine tuned and in the
(17:37):
right place.
Mark (17:38):
In the Bible, you know, it says as a man thinketh so is he.
So what are you thinking aboutand who, and who are you putting
your trust in in this world orare you putting it in something
beyond yourself?
That brings a lot of comfort,too, during difficult times
because now it's like, allright, I'm not a hundred percent
in control of this and I can beat peace with wherever this
thing goes.
Russel (17:57):
We're kind of still, you know, kind of in the depths of
your, your early stage, butthat, that applies whether
you're eight and a half yearsinto it, 25 years into it,
starting tomorrow whatever thecase might be.
I do want to switch gears for aminute.
Wonderful, inspiring message outthere for everyone listening
that you've already shared.
It sounds like you've been inthe same vein as far as your
product or service, since theearly days, but I imagine just
(18:19):
some of your mindset, it soundslike maybe shift in terms of how
you're delivering it andultimately what you're trying to
build here.
If you don't mind kind of justgoing into the depths of your
product evolution, as you lookat it through the lens of your
agency?
Mark (18:31):
In the beginning, it was kind of like, be all things to
everyone because I just need todo whatever I can to make a
buck.
It's like learning graphicdesign and doing business cards
and doing branding andcommercials and photos and doing
all this stuff.
No matter what someone had, Iwould say, yeah, I'll, I'll do
it.
A lot of times it's just metrying to figure things out,
(18:53):
figuring out how to do things.
I think being curious and beingable to learn and learn quickly
is very beneficial.
As I started to grow from a oneman band to then like hiring
some contractors, I startedthinking, all right, like, what
do we, like, what do I reallylike doing?
What are some things that I'mreally good at and things that
(19:13):
we've done really well?
Over the years, it's beenevolving into saying no to the
things that we're not expertsin, whether that's SEO or PPC or
like full brand developments.
In the very beginning it was, wewere helping solopreneurs create
personal brands and, and I thinkwe do that really well.
(19:34):
But then sometimes it would cometo like these really in depth
branding projects for companieswhere it's like, you need to
have all sorts of avatars andjust these really deep kind of
work that, I actually hate it.
Even doing like full blowncommercials, uh, where we had to
hire tons of crew and have all,and it's like, man, I really
don't like doing that kind ofstuff, you know?
(19:56):
It's been really just trying tolike hone in on the things that
I feel like bring life to whatwe do and that we really enjoy
and not just trying to be allthings to all people.
Podcasting is one of thosethings where, I always loved
podcasting.
I was a big fan of radio as ayoung kid.
I always pretended to be a radioDJ.
My buddy and I would situnderneath his bunk bed and we
(20:17):
had one of those dicta phones.
Remember the ones that had likethe microphone attached to it
and you could put your littletape in there, hit record.
We'd like record songs off theradio and then we would, you
know, talk on the mic like, youknow, well, the weather is
really great out there, Jim.
Look at the traffic on I-25.
I always loved the radio and theidea of being a DJ.
In 2005, I remember we were inNashville recording, uh, our
(20:41):
second record.
There was this popular sciencemagazine and it had this, all
this information about RSS feedsand how you can create this feed
on the internet, upload MP3s andthen iPods would be able to
connect through iTunes and suckdown a, you know, this MP3 file.
I was like, wow, this is socool.
This is like having your owninternet radio show.
(21:02):
I started a podcast, um, andjust as a hobby for fun.
Throughout the years I wouldalways come back to doing it as
something that I enjoyed andthat allowed me to meet
interesting people and becurious, you know, probably
similar to what you do here.
I just did that as for fun as Iwas doing Brand Viva and, and
doing all this.
And this is the other thing Iwant to share with everyone: so
(21:23):
many people are chomping at thebit to do their own thing and
start their own business and,and move their side hustle to a
full time, you know, gig.
But I would just say, be contentwith where you're at and look
for ways to provide value toother people within your sphere.
Because I will say that Iwouldn't be where I'm at today
if it wasn't for all the jobsthat I worked and all the people
(21:44):
that I met and all therelationships that I built over
the years.
I wouldn't be where I'm at if itwasn't for me being present in
the job that I was working.
I can almost look back at everyclient we've worked with and
pinpoint it back all the way tolike a job I worked where I met
somebody who then, when I wentoff and did my own thing, they
introduced me to somebody or gotme an opportunity.
(22:06):
I just wanna encourage people'cause I, I know that I, I
remember where it's like, man, Iwanna start my own thing.
You're always daydreaming andthinking about what's next and
how you can make that leap andyou're never really present in
what you're doing.
Just think that the thing thatyou're currently doing could be
the stepping stone to where youwanna be.
How can you do what you're doingright now with excellence?
Russel (22:25):
It really speaks to, and I do talk to a lot of folks and
look, the amount of risk andsweat and energy that we have to
put into this thing.
It's a tremendous amount ofeffort.
It is not worth it at the day ifit's just paying bills per se.
There's gotta be more to it thanthat.
How important it is, just goesback to that mindset piece of
you've got to love what you do.
Not to say that you don't haveto do things you don't want to
(22:46):
do so you can get to do thingsyou love to do, but we've got to
engineer this thing so thatwe're doing what we love.
It sounds like that's been agreat part of your journey and
your evolution is, is continuingto recalibrate, reevaluate.
Hey, am I doing what I want todo?
How does that look in the fabricof the business?
Mark (23:03):
Yeah, totally.
I started to say no to thethings that we didn't like doing
and that we weren't great at,but it was like, I just need to
make a buck and sort of sayingyes to the things that we did
like doing and that things thatwe were really excellent in.
Podcasting was one of thosethings because I had had my own
podcast and I, I knew a lotabout it and I had been doing it
for several years.
I had a lot of skill around it.
(23:23):
I just started seeing how itcould be used to build
authority, build relationship,create content, and present
yourself as a thought leader indifferent spaces.
Funny enough, so I had my show,How'd You Get Here?
Because I worked at RE/MAX, Ihad known someone who had worked
their way up from the bottom allthe way to the CEO of the
(23:43):
company.
I reached out to that person andsaid, hey, I'd love for you to
come on to my show and just chatabout your journey.
I had him on and we just startedtalking and then he went back to
his team and said, hey, we needto do a podcast.
This is really great.
That was my foray into likedoing podcasts as one of the
main things as our agency.
(24:03):
Once we started doing it there,it was kind of like, we had a
few other clients that wereinterested in it.
Then it became one of thosethings where it's just natural
to use it as more of a tool tobuild your business instead of
trying to become the next JoeRogan or Mystery Science
Theater, whatever it might be,where it's like, it's not really
about getting millions andmillions of downloads.
It's really about creatingcontent on a consistent basis,
(24:24):
presenting yourself as a thoughtleader and getting access to
people that normally youwouldn't be able to get access
to.
When I changed the mind mindsetaround that, then it really just
started to take off and besomething where it was like,
okay this is how we do thisthing here at Brand Viva and how
we offer it and how it canbenefit, you know, our users or
our clients.
That's the one, one pillar ofwhat we do is podcasting.
(24:45):
The next is video content.
Really that's tutorial videos,educational content, how to
videos.
We do commercials and brand typestuff, but I always say like the
boring stuff is what we reallyexcel at.
The things that, that kind oftake like a crappy webinar or a
bad slideshow or a bad onlinecourse and turn it into
(25:05):
something like beautiful.
That's where we focus.
Then we do headshots.
We do corporate headshots.
You need to refresh yourcompany's LinkedIn profiles or
your sales team's profiles orjust have great images on your
website, we do that too.
Those are like the three mainthings that we do.
As an agency, we're always justtrying to solve problems for our
clients.
Whether that's, they need newbranding materials or they want
(25:28):
to refresh their brand or theyneed a new website.
All those are ancillary things.
We can support in, but, but asfar as our foot forward, it's
like we create the content thatused for marketing.
Russel (25:36):
I hope you use that as a tagline.
We make boring, beautiful, orwe're good at boring stuff.
Maybe that would work.
Mark (25:42):
I'll have to like, listen back and be like, all right,
what did I say here?
So we can use that as a slogan.
Russel (25:47):
One of the things I know you'd mentioned before is some
of the challenges behind anagency business is we got to
sweat for every dollar we earnin some capacity.
If we get really good, thosedollars that we sweat for are
more than the dollars we used tosweat for.
Sometimes that presents scalablechallenges.
It sounds like you're working inthat direction of just, how do
you make this model that youhave more scalable beyond a
dollar or sweat for everydollar?
Mark (26:08):
In the early years it was just a lifestyle business,
right?
I woke up every day, it was justme.
Then as I started growing,hiring W2 employees and doing
all this stuff.
It's a lifestyle business, butI'm also providing for the
lifestyle of my employees andother contractors and stuff like
that.
But then over the years I'vereally started to think like,
all right, what's next?
You have to have a selfawareness of, I think especially
in this industry, and this mightoffend some people, but in the
(26:30):
creative industry, it really isa young man's game.
It's one of those things whereyou have to have this vigor and
this passion and excitementabout it.
You have to be constantlylearning new things and new
strategies and what Googlealgorithm changed.
There's just a lot to learn.
Unfortunately, I think there's alot of people who just try to
hang on too long and they eitherdon't evolve with the industry
(26:51):
and so everything that they dois a little bit outdated and,
boring, or they just aren'tproviding any value back to
their audience.
In that case, their businessisn't going to grow.
But for me, it was it's beenmore now over the past year,
I've been thinking, all right,how do I get out of this?
In the beginning I was doing allthe things and so now I've
worked myself out of all thedoing and I focus more on
business development and growth.
But then now I'm at this placewhere it's like, okay, the
(27:13):
business really depends on me,right?
My relationships, me going outand networking, the, that the
content that I put online,that's building the brand.
The next phase really is, is howdo I take this to, um, either
completely remove myself andhave this kind of machine
running by itself with sales andmarketing and all these other
kinds of things, or how do Ibuild something that is easily
(27:35):
sold?
How do I make something that Ican sell?
To do that, you have to have agreat system, a great process, a
great lead source.
Those are the kind of thosethree things that I'm thinking
about over the next like threeto five years of like, okay, how
do I build something that is notdependent on necessarily a, a
service that we're providing?
(27:55):
Because, and I don't know, youmight know this better than me.
You interview a ton of peopleand you have a lot of knowledge.
I'd be curious to hear to yourthoughts on that because to me,
it seems like every businessthat's really successful at that
have some sort of widget, right?
That it's okay, if I can sellthis widget and reach enough
people to buy my widget, then Ihave a business that's creating
this passive income or thisincome that's being generated by
(28:17):
digital advertising or SEO orwhatever that might be.
What are your thoughts on that?
Cause I'm sure you hear that alot of people trying to figure
out, okay.
What's the next phase?
How do I get out of thisbusiness?
Russel (28:27):
The agency industry was born of just, right?
Time for money, time for money,time for money.
I think in the last, I don'tknow, five, 10 years, maybe
let's say for specifically fiveyears, we're realizing that this
is painful.
This whole notion ofproductizing your agency is
certainly coming about.
I think we can create, createthis with service.
It doesn't have to be a widget,a package of standard thing.
We can still have some of thisbespoke, this creativity, this
(28:49):
strategy.
We just have to find all thepieces that, that we can just
find ways to scale down theireffort.
It can be just small parts.
Leveraging lower cost talent todo very simple parts of the
process and leave our morestrategic talent to do the
bigger stuff.
That's still some time for moneybut, but we're lowering our cost
of goods sold, if you will, forsome of the output we're doing.
(29:11):
It's kind of almost an 80/20rule.
What is the 20 percent of effortthat's producing 80 percent of
the results and spend more timeon that and whittling out the
opposite effect of what's the 80percent of our effort that's
only producing 20 percent of ourresults?
Mark (29:23):
That's really hard.
I think too, as far as in acreative space, at least.
There's an element of you havean eye or you don't have an eye.
You're creative or you're notcreative.
I think it's been difficult tooutsource some of that
creativity.
I tried to work with some ofthese outsourcing companies
where it's like, oh, they're inBrazil or the Philippines or
something like that.
Just the level of quality thatwe've built our brand on and the
things that we do isn't there inthose spaces.
(29:45):
Either you have to keep lookingat, cause I'm sure there's
extremely talented people inother countries that, work for a
more affordable wage than whatwe have here in America.
Some of the designers and motiongraph, I mean, it's expensive.
Hundreds of dollars an hour todo stuff.
I'm an agency.
How can I mark up that, thosefees in order to make it
profitable for us as well?
I think that's just one of thedifficult things, but I do see
(30:07):
that it's like, man, if youcould figure that piece out on
the creative side of things,then I think you could
definitely, you know, scale andbe a lot more profitable.
Russel (30:15):
If you can do that, cause to the point, that, that
type of talent is, is more rare.
It's the 80/20 rule again,that's 20 percent of the
marketplace, generally speaking.
But I, I still think it's, it'smore of how do we get that
talent?
We all know we do things thatare admin work or just how can
we take a much of that away sothat most of their time is
focused on the high valuecreative work?
It's a whittling process, not a,not a cut and dry aspect of it.
(30:38):
Man, this has been a wonderfulconversation.
You've shared so many wonderfulthoughts so far.
I would love to make this a twohour podcast episode, let me
just ask the big kind of finalquestion for folks is, are
entrepreneurs born or are theymade?
Mark (30:51):
Oh, that is a great question.
I want to say it's a little bitof both.
Because I think that anyone canlearn the work ethic and they
can learn the grit and they candevelop that way.
But then there's also, I thinkthere's this thing that's just
broken in our brains where we'rejust not afraid.
I think I'm just messed up andwhen everyone else is afraid,
(31:12):
I'm just running towards the,you know, the fire.
Russel (31:15):
That's probably the best one I've heard right now.
We're a little bit crazy.
We're a little bit broken.
We've endured some, know, traumain life.
That's some good pre early daysof someone in a, you know,
giving a business loan orsomething like that.
Hey, how much childhood traumahave you had?
How crazy are you?
That's going to make adetermination of whether they're
actually going to give you thisloan or not.
That's a great thought.
If people want to know moreabout Brand Viva Media, where
(31:36):
can they go my man?
Mark (31:37):
Just BrandVivaMedia.com.
BrandViva.com.
All lead to the same place.
You can hit me up on LinkedIn.
Love to answer questions or talkto anybody who's curious.
I love helping people out whoare further down the rungs than
I am so I can, you know, givethem guidance and just enrich
their lives however possible.
Russel (31:53):
You have another podcast as well, or a renamed podcast,
The Friday Habits.
Check that as well.
You've got a lot of greatcontent out there that's very
applicable to the agency space.
Mark (32:02):
That's right.
Russel (32:03):
Thank you again for taking the time outta your day
to share these wonderfulinsights and all the places
you've been and come andexplored and learned.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share that with everyone
today
Mark (32:13):
My pleasure man.
Be present.
Don't worry about tomorrow andexpect a blessing.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(32:36):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
One of the hardest things, especially when you're first
(32:58):
learning out is all thepressures and stress that you
have.
Especially with videoproduction.
If you've ever done videoproduction or have been behind a
camera and you've been, youknow, stressed and you're
thinking about all the things.
Is the audio working, is thevideo working?
The biggest thing is likehitting that record button.
There's been so many times whereI've like looked at the camera
and been like, yeah, everythinglooks good.
Then I tell the person to goahead and it's like, wait, I
(33:20):
didn't hit the record button.
That is just the worst.
You feel sick to your stomachand you're like, I'm an idiot.
I didn't hit record.
Russel (33:27):
I've done it one time on the podcast.
I forgot to hit record, did awhole episode.
Mark (33:30):
Where it's like, crap.
It happens.
You've got so much stuff goingon your brain.
That's why as soon as you canoutsource the better.
Have somebody else focused onhitting the record button.
Russel (33:38):
There you go.
That's by the scalability.
You just hire one person.
All they do is show up and theyhit record and, and then you
don't, yeah, you take all thatstress so someone can be more
creative.
There we go.
We solved the world's problems.
Mark (33:47):
That's right.
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