May 4, 2025 • 33 mins
Company: Moxie Sozo
Guests: Derek Springston
Year Started: 2000
Employees: 25-50
From Unpaid Intern to Owner: The Moxie Sozo Journey
What happens when you bet on yourself, move across the country, and work for free. All just for a shot at doing meaningful work? In this episode, Derek Springston, Partner at Moxie Sozo, shares how that bet paid off, leading him from an unpaid intern to co-owner of a 25-year-old agency. You’ll hear what it really takes to grow into leadership, maintain culture through change, and figure it out, even when you’re not sure how.
Inside this episode:
- The mindset shift required when you lead the people you once worked beside
- Why trust, not title, is the real foundation for leadership
- How to build a culture people want to return to, even after they leave
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast.
I'm your host, Russel.
What do keg parties, cleaningtoilets, and typography
obsession have in common forDerek Springston?
They're all chapters in theunexpected journey, from unpaid
intern to agency co-owner.
In this episode, Derek nowpartner and chief executive
officer at Boulder basedbranding agency, Moxie Sozo
(01:02):
shares how a bet on himself 16years ago turned into owning a
25 year legacy agency.
And what it really takes to leada team you once worked beside.
We cover Derrick's evolutionfrom just a designer to the
person responsible for buildingone of the best experiences of
someone's career.
He opens up about the difficulttransition from employee to
owner, the power of doinguncomfortable things, and how
(01:25):
his grandfather's leadershipstyle still influences him
today.
This is an aspirational andinspirational episode for anyone
looking to create an exit planand a legacy.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Derek Springston withMoxie Sozo with us here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Derek.
Derek (01:44):
Russel, thanks for having me.
Really appreciate it.
Russel (01:46):
I'm excited.
So many parts of your story Ireally enjoy and probably will
want to talk for six to sevenhours, but I'm guessing your
family might not appreciatethat, so I'll do my best to keep
it concise today.
Derek (01:57):
Family, clients, you know, some folks.
Life, those sort of things.
Russel (02:01):
Life, what's all this life getting in the way?
We'll listen to the universe.
Just start us off, out of thegate.
Tell us what Moxie Sozo does andwho you do it for, and we'll get
to the early days of yourjourney.
Derek (02:10):
Moxy Sozo, we're actually celebrating our 25th year in
business this year.
We're a branding agency out ofBoulder, Colorado.
We're most well known in the CPGindustry, so, uh, beer, wine,
spirits, food and beverage.
Really have been building brandsall the way from strategic
foundation, visual identity,packaging and activations, um,
(02:33):
now for really, yeah, over twodecades.
We're around 32 people right nowwith teams.
Everyone's in house, everyone'son the front range of Colorado,
and we've got strategic team,creative team, production team,
development team, uh, and nowadvertising team as well.
It's, um, a great group ofpeople that, uh, I couldn't ask
more for.
Russel (02:54):
Nice.
25 years.
That sounds like you guys gotsome cool things planned to
celebrate that, which, that's abig milestone.
Are you doing something?
What are you doing for your 25thanniversary?
Derek (03:03):
Leslie, who you met helps, uh, brand manage the
agency.
We've got a lot planned.
We're having an event nextmonth, uh, in, on the front
range for agencies around herebringing them in.
We're talking about ourselves,planning, how do you use that,
those, those marketing messages,uh, as well as you can, but I
mean, really it's, it's aboutcontinuing to do what we've been
(03:25):
doing for the last 25 years.
I can't take credit for allthose 25 years, so I'm like a
little different maybe than someof your other guests where I
didn't necessarily start thisagency, but I've been here, uh,
for around 15 years now and haveseen us evolve and change over
the years.
I took over the agency alongwith my partners, uh, about six
(03:45):
years ago.
Last six years have been kindof, um, navigating that, that
new role and guidance.
25, it is, it is pretty crazy.
Agencies getting to five to 10years now is always a feat so
it's, uh, I don't stop andreflect enough.
Russel (04:00):
It's like dog years.
Derek (04:01):
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
Russel (04:02):
Yes, you do have a unique origin story that I want
to get to in a little bit hereand uh, uh,'cause I don't often
come across necessarily uniqueorigin stories, so I'm really
excited about that part of theconversation.
Before we get all things agencylife and agency stuff, I wanna
go back to your origin story andtalk to us about young Derek.
What was he playing with athome?
(04:22):
What kind of toys?
What did he want to be when hegrow up?
Tell us all the good stuff.
Derek (04:25):
Oh, toys.
Oh man.
Lots of Teenage Mutant NinjaTurtles, we'll do that.
I grew up in southern Indiana,uh, rural Indiana.
My grandpa actually started aprinting company, uh, in a small
town of Holland, Indiana back inthe day.
He did that around the seventiesso I always kind of grew up
where my grandpa had thiscompany.
(04:47):
My dad who, who is hisson-in-law, not his son.
He ended up leaving his job asan engineer to go work for him
and help him run the business,eventually taking that over.
So young Derek spent a lot oftime at Woods Printing in
Indiana.
Shout to my sister who's runningit today.
It's was a lot, I, I startedworking there pretty young,
(05:07):
honestly, too.
Russel (05:08):
I was waiting for this child labor moment.
I just knew that had to exist.
Derek (05:12):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
There's levels to it.
8-year-old Derek, he cleaned thetoilets and, uh, then like 10,
12 you mopped and you did weedeating and you took care of the
yard and all that stuff.
Eventually started working inthe back room.
Doing collating.
The reason my grandpa startedthe printing industry or
printing business in the areawas there's a lot of furniture
(05:33):
companies in southern Indianaand, um, the, they all needed
price books, they all needed allthese things back in the day, in
the eighties and nineties wherenot everything was digital.
I started in the back roomcollating.
Having the, the ladies, youknow, boss me around as a
teenager and then eventually Iwas the delivery guy at 16, 17,
(05:53):
18.
Which that's not a, that's not agood hire, but, you know, my dad
let me do that for a while.
The thing that, uh, you know,that relates maybe to where I am
today is the pre-pressdepartment.
Always having access to Maccomputers and being able to
dabble around on some of theprograms that they had at the
time, whether it was Photoshopor Illustrator or Cork, if you
(06:14):
guys remember Cork.
There was some dabbling that Iwas allowed to do.
I would play video games ontheir computers too, but there
was definitely like someintriguing interest there.
Around the like kind of, theswatch books were always
fascinating to me'cause theywere always the coolest thing
that was in the office.
That was kind of how I startedunderstanding even what a design
(06:35):
role could be.
These were pre-press people,but, um, not necessarily saying,
oh, that's what I'm gonna do,but I at least knew of it, knew,
knew what it was, and was kindof interested.
That's how it kind of started.
Russel (06:46):
Very cool.
This is a classic nature versusnurture question of just do,
did, do you feel like theenvironment created this, this
design interest for you, or didyou already have that and just
in the right environment toexpand upon that as you were
sharing?
Derek (07:02):
It's a great question.
As I think I mentioned to youbefore, I, I'm not great at
introspection and why I've, I'vemade the choices that I've made
or I've done the things thatI've done, but I, I think that
piqued my interest.
They certainly weren't doing andprinting things that were mind
blowingly creative.
That wasn't their role.
And, um, I was good.
(07:24):
I was decent at art kind of in,early on in school and those
sort of things that, again, I'mnot an illustrator.
That wasn't necessarily mypassion, but there was always
curiosity there.
I don't know if I ever put my,my finger on it until like
college, so it, it wasdefinitely in the back of my
head somewhere.
It wasn't necessarily at theforefront.
(07:45):
I thought it was gonna go intoengineering, I think, uh, yeah,
I was a math major at one point.
That was not gonna happen.
Stuff like that.
I think it did lay somefoundations, but it was probably
recessive for a long time.
Russel (07:57):
I feel you on the math major thing.
I think like day negative 50, Ideclared math major right before
I even got into college.
Then I remember going throughorientation and seeing the
first, uh, like the, the kind ofrubric for all the classes you'd
have to take for math major andreally decided real quick, no,
that's not gonna be my major.
When like, calculus 10 is likethe second semester of freshman
(08:18):
year, and it's like, okay, yeah.
Bad choice Russel.
Derek (08:21):
You can get humbled real quick in calculus for economics.
That's where you can get humbledreal quick.
That first D minus, you're like,hmm, maybe I shouldn't do this.
Russel (08:31):
I say that, why I even thought this'cause I remember in
high school I took one day ofcalculus, got like one right on
my homework and said I'm nottaking calculus my senior year
of high school.
That really should have been thewake up call from me.
But clearly I was, loved math.
I don't even know but yeah, Ilove math.
But anyhow.
Get us to some of the early daysof your career and, um, and then
I know, I know we're not gonnabe too far away from, uh, your
(08:52):
agency life.
Derek (08:53):
In school, like I bounced around majors, was always kind
of taking some art classes onthe side, um, and eventually
applied for a BFA, uh, ingraphic design.
Found my people there.
I was like, oh, I don't have todraw all the things.
I kind of just became obsessedwith typography and that was
really when I knew, okay, thisis like the thing, like why do I
(09:13):
care, uh, you know, who designedBodoni?
I don't know but I do.
There was this really deepresearch that that's, that was
kind of, I was like, okay.
I found it and found some greatpeople.
Eventually came outta schoolaround'08,'09.
The history buffs know what waskind of going on there, so no
one was hiring.
I would always kind of thoughtof like, well, I'm not, I'm in
(09:35):
Indiana.
I went to Indiana University, soI was still in Indiana.
I knew as soon as I got outtacollege, I didn't wanna be in
Indiana.
No shade on people in Indiana.
I still go back a lot.
My family lives there.
I love Indiana.
Love how I grew up.
But there were other placeslike, okay, if no one's hiring,
I'm just gonna apply to theplaces where I wanna live.
I think I applied to, you know,some of, some of the standards
(09:55):
like San Francisco and New Yorkand those sort of things.
But my dad had always taken meto Colorado as a kid.
We came out here and learned flyfishing together back when I was
young, so I only knew ColoradoSummers.
Everybody thinks Colorado'scold, it is not.
Incredibly sunny all the time.
I only knew summers and it wasone of those places where I was
like, well, if I could liveanywhere, you know, just take a
(10:16):
shot.
Might as well apply someagencies in Colorado.
That's where Lee Steiner, MoxieSozo's founder, uh, emailed me
and said, hey.
We're not hiring, but you couldtotally come out here and be an
unpaid intern if you want.
I like your book.
You can come out here and workfor free.
I'll take a shot.
That was kind of the start of memoving out here.
Russel (10:33):
That was just like your first job at a, at essentially
college or, or, I don't evenknow.
Can you even call it a job?
Derek (10:40):
That was my first job outta college.
Nowadays you can't call that ajob.
It wasn't necessarily my firstjob in the industry.
I did some internshipsthroughout college for some
children's museum, and then Iworked for Indiana University,
um, in one of their departments,uh, where I designed all the
event flyers and those sort ofthings.
(11:01):
I had some, some workexperience, nothing, nothing
like agency experience, butbounced around some internships
there and some jobs throughoutcollege.
This was really my first realagency gig coming outta school.
I moved out here.
I had some savings where I waslike, I could make this work for
a few months.
If it doesn't work out, I'llfigure it out.
Took the risk, you know, and nowI'm here.
(11:22):
But there's a big, that's a bigleap.
Russel (11:24):
Okay.
I got a lot of questions aboutthis.
Derek (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, there's somequestions in there.
Russel (11:28):
I mean, right, not just an unpaid internship while
you're living in your parents'basement, an unpaid internship
while you're moving to acompletely, I mean, granted very
beautiful place you knew thatyou wanted to live.
Sounds like a crazy risky move.
I gotta just understand moreabout who you are.
Derek (11:43):
Again, not an introspective person.
I don't know if failure reallycrossed my mind.
Honestly, it was an in for anagency that I admired their
work.
As a career, at that point intime, it was really just about
getting better at being adesigner and wanting to kind of
learn from people that Iadmired.
(12:04):
Not knowing like it was a five,six person agency at the time.
Two people who I, are still, mypartners, um, are doing most of
the greatest work, uh, thatcomes out.
I think you, you kind of touchedon something there.
It was like, well is like, I'll,I'll put my head down.
I went to work at my parents'place at eight, like I really
did.
So there's a lot of like, putyour head down and put the
(12:26):
effort in.
You are gonna make mistakesalong the way, but yeah, I don't
know that I thought about whathappens if this doesn't work
out?
I had the support from my familytoo.
If I would've picked a differentstate, maybe my dad wouldn't
have been so stoked.
Russel (12:38):
They say, yeah, you should do that, son.
As long as you got an extra bedin your, uh, in the apartment,
uh, we're good.
Derek (12:44):
But I think he was like, great.
Yeah.
So, you know, I was definitelyfortunate there where, um, I
had, I had some savings that Ihad built up to, to be able to
do it and make the choice, andthen the family that was like,
yeah, go see what happens.
I don't think my dad was, like,thought that much of a graphic
design, uh, degree at the timeor, you know, a BFA degree.
It was, where can I go that Ican, I want to be, and um, learn
(13:08):
as much as possible.
That was really it.
I was like, oh, if somethingchanges, I'll just go with the
flow there.
I still act that way even todaywhere say there's a problem that
comes up and we're talking aboutit, inevitably I will always
say, we'll figure it out.
Because we will.
We will.
I've always had that mentalityas like, oh, I'll figure it out.
If something else has to happen,um, I'll put in the work or the
(13:31):
effort or the thought and, andfigure it out.
Russel (13:33):
So it's really kind of a, a bet on yourself.
What's the worst that can happenand if I, I just put my head
down and, and charge hard at it,and as we'll quote you, I'll
figure it out.
Derek (13:44):
Yeah.
I think it is, it is a lot aboutself-belief, but it is a lot,
you know, some, some privilegein there too.
Having a supportive family,having a support structure,
having great friends, those sortof things like where you can
bounce things off of.
I've never felt like on my ownnecessarily.
That also helps a lot.
There's some backup things.
Russel (14:02):
That's such a great thing to recognize and we all
have different levels of supportthat comes naturally, but even
wherever we're at on that scale,I think it's just a great
reminder of how importantsupport is and get that for
yourself.
Maybe even as a first steppingstone, if you're gonna try
something hard is what is yoursupport system.
That makes the hard endeavorsmore likely to turn out
(14:22):
successful.
Great reminder.
Great introspection.
You're already growing in thecourse of this podcast.
Derek (14:27):
Yeah, see, there you go.
It just takes the right personto ask, like, have you thought
about this?
Do you want to?
Russel (14:32):
Cleaning toilets might, we might have brought up some
traumatic, um, memories there.
Derek (14:35):
Hey, I'm still the cleaner in the family.
I clean our house.
That's maybe another issue whereit's the perfectionism, those
sort of things.
That's another thing
Russel (14:43):
That's fair.
How many, just so I can start toget an understanding as you
already dropped how long, youknow, you've been owning the
business.
How many years ago was this thatyou started your unpaid
internship?
Derek (14:52):
That was'08,'09, so that was 16 years ago and throughout
that, about five years in, um,so we were a pretty flat agency
at the time.
We were small when I started.
Five or six with a, with quite afew unpaid interns.
We grew pretty quickly thosefirst five years.
We probably got in the twentiesthere.
But we were really flatstructure and our, our founder,
(15:14):
who was the creative director,he controlled all the creative
and I wanted to go see what elsewas out there.
I took what I always say is likea year hiatus to another agency
called Interact.
They're also in CPG space.
They're a great agency too.
Went there for a year to betheir design director, another
small team.
But after a year, I reallymissed certain people back at
(15:35):
Moxie Sozo.
So much of it was about what Iliked doing and why I would put
as much effort into it or why Iwould stay late was who's
surrounding you.
Not that I didn't like thepeople I worked with at
Interact, it was just that, ifI'm gonna do this, I, there's,
there's a few folks at Moxiethat I want to do this with
consistently.
It's'cause they have the same,like, approach.
(15:56):
We were working on somethingtoday and there's, now there's
this shorthand that we'vedeveloped over the years and
it's it became a lot more oflike, well, if I'm gonna put in
all this effort, I'm gonna putin all this time to probably be
around the people that I want tobe around.
That led me back to Moxie.
Came back, um, as a associatecreative director and then kind
(16:16):
of grew from there.
We can talk about the role Ihave now, but it was, is that's
really when I started gettingmore client facing leading teams
and those sort of things.
Russel (16:26):
Okay.
Clearly, just building uptremendous amount of experience
as anyone that does that, um,works in a small setting, and
even as that grows, I feel likeeveryone at home right now is
just writing a note and maybetheir only takeaway from this
episode is gonna be get a lot ofunpaid interns.
Derek (16:41):
Yeah, no, you can't do that no more.
And Moxie Sozo, we pay all ofour interns now.
Russel (16:47):
Yes.
That was told to me very earlyon.
It's like, you can do unpaidinterns, but if you want to do
it by the book, it's way moredifficult than just pay'em, pay
'em 10 bucks an hour and youknow, you're, you're better off
in the long run.
Derek (16:58):
Absolutely.
There's none of that.
There's been some evolutionshere, especially since, since we
took over.
Russel (17:04):
Good disclaimer.
Department of Labor, do notlisten to this episode.
Moxie Sozo pays all interns.
Don't report us.
Derek (17:10):
Absolutely.
Russel (17:11):
When is that moment or did that transition start to
occur, or how did this allhappen that you even became an
opportunity to actually becomean owner?
Derek (17:18):
Our founder, uh, pulled a few of us aside who'd worked
together for a long time andbeen there and essentially
wanted to keep it in the familyand was like, hey, I'm thinking
about stepping away.
Would you all be interested intrying to make this work where
you guys could purchase theagency and, and take over?
Myself, uh, Nate Dyer, CharlesBloom, and John Supsic, the four
(17:39):
of us figured it out.
One of those, John Supsic is theCFO.
If he wasn't involved in thatpurchase, it probably, it would
not have happened.
Russel (17:47):
You gotta have a money guy, if you're gonna buy a
business.
Derek (17:49):
The other three of us are all creatives.
He was the money guy and, um,helped make that happen along
with Leif Steiner who was thefounder.
It was incredibly a big honorand, and trying to figure it
out.
But that, you know, became a lotdifferent.
Owning the company versus beinga contributor.
That was about six years ago.
We figured that out, and thosefirst few years.
(18:11):
And then, the pandemic and allthose sort of things, it was
some fast learning.
I think that we will figure itout.
It's kind of year to year, dayto day sometimes.
But that's how that came about.
We were recognized for the timeand effort in helping grow the
business and we were able toscrap together enough dollars to
make it work, get a loan, thosesort of things that you have to
(18:31):
do.
Again, we weren't the originalentrepreneur, but there's
definitely some of that thinkingthat goes into it.
That's how we put it together.
Russel (18:38):
Sorry, another introspection question for you.
I have to imagine there was justa literal day when you were no
long from on, on Friday, youwere the contributor, and Monday
you were part owner.
Do you have any big instantmemory oh, this is how it felt
different, or this is now how mythinking was almost on a dime,
like switching on a dime likethat?
Derek (18:57):
Just how you have to think.
Bringing up like those thoughtsof do I need to act different?
All these people who are mycoworkers, are now my employees.
That shift was interesting and Ithink it took me a while to
really live up to what you needto be.
Since I didn't start as the bossand now you're the boss.
(19:17):
I still think there's a lot ofwork on how to, how you live up
to that and how you support youremployees and many of which I
had worked with.
We're a nice split where there'sa lot of employees have been
here 8, 9, 10 years or plus, andthen half is more the younger
crowd and doing those sort ofthings.
There's some people I have a lotof history with and where I was
just a designer for a long timethat they, fed me work and I did
(19:40):
the work and gave it back.
It's an interesting dynamic whenthat changes.
It's like, how do you make sureyou're earning and garnering
their respect and, how are yousupporting them?
I think it's something I've hadto learn in the last, uh, last
few years especially.
Though a lot of that's havingsome frank and honest
conversations and hearing fromthem and, and not being overly
reactive.
(20:00):
I think the first few yearsthere's a lot of reactive of,
well, this, you can't do that'cause of this, and now I know
more about how the business isrun.
There's all these little factorsthat you, you learn about as you
get handed over the reins.
Especially from a financialperspective that gets in your
head and you have to continue tothink about it from, from the
(20:21):
employee perspective, in a lotof ways.
I try and balance that as bestas possible.
Russel (20:25):
No, no.
I was just gonna segue, then.
What intentionally did you feellike you had to do to navigate
that?
I think you shared, right?
It sounds like maybe even had togo a little slower than you
might have, your instinctswould've wanted you to go.
I'll do some introspection foryou, maybe, you can tell me if
I'm right or wrong.
That I don't know what I don'tknow and there's personalities
and, you know, it seems likeculture is really important to
you, so I'd rather play it slowand navigate some of those
(20:47):
dynamics.
I guess we'll go back to yourage old quote, we'll figure out
the rest along the way.
Derek (20:51):
Not only having to go a little bit slower, but not
avoiding it either.
You can't just dive back intowhat you're comfortable with or
what you've always done andthink that everything else is
gonna be okay.
Just because you thought thatway as an employee doesn't mean
everybody else does.
Does that make sense, whereit's, you know, you are not
them.
How you felt as an employee,just'cause you were okay with
it, doesn't, doesn't matter.
(21:12):
Getting out of the comfort zoneof yes, you're good at this and
you can make yourself as busy aspossible with things that you're
comfortable with.
I still do that to this day.
What can I do versus what do Ineed to do?
so Having those conversationsmore and more, how do people
work?
Understanding that.
I think I learned a lot of it.
Going back to my grandpa andthen my dad, seeing how they
treated their employees, um, andhow like my grandpa, like people
(21:36):
really wanted to talk to him andenjoyed talking to him.
So I think part of it over thelast few years is like trying to
retrospectively look back atthat and seeing how how I want
to help people and managepeople.
That's a good introspection Iguess.
I think it comes down, comesback to some of that, of what I
saw as a kid.
My grandpa and my dad bothplayed a huge role in just how
(21:58):
they really cared about thepeople.
Part of that is being in a smalltown, there's not a whole town,
there's not a whole other, otherjobs.
Russel (22:05):
You got no choice in some degree, in a small town.
Derek (22:07):
Yeah.
But it's all like, you put inwhat you get out, and that's the
same I think for how you, howyou treat people as well.
Russel (22:13):
Absolutely.
I'm gonna butcher the quote, soI'm not gonna say it exactly,
but it, but it made me think of,you know, just asking yourself
the question as a leader, how doyou want to be seen by people
and, and meeting them wherethey're at essentially is, seems
like the question you're askingand it is such important
question.
Then the other thing that I, Ifound pretty profound in what
you're saying is just this ideathat obviously you had a pretty
(22:34):
big event that kind of forcedthis transformation, this
different way of thinking inyou.
I don't think it's in, anydifferent than a lot of agency
owners just when they've been,you know, their business's kind
of stalled out or they're justreally not where they want to
be.
Probably requires sometransformation of yourself, your
approach, your way of thinkingin order to kind of jump those
hurdles, break down thoseobstacles, and not just relying
(22:56):
on kind of the whole, what, whatgot you here won't get you there
mentality, um, is, is not alwaysa good, is not something good to
rely on, I should say.
Derek (23:05):
The last couple years, you know, having some outside
mentors, um, that have done thisbefore because yeah, I have some
really limited experience and sodo my partners.
We have kind of the sameexperience where we're at this
agency for a long time and yeah,we've seen us change and we've
seen the agency change.
Being able to accept like, hey,this is how, this is who I am,
(23:27):
this is how I want this, thisagency to act and be and, and
all those sort of things.
Bringing in some mentors andhaving those conversations where
they can say, they can thecliche, like they can show you a
mirror and say, well, here'swhere you're, you're gonna stall
out.
Here's where I see some bumps inthe road that if you, if you
don't address these sort ofthings, like how are you gonna
grow?
(23:47):
How are you gonna affect theteam?
And if the team is wantingsomething, how are you gonna
reach that?
You have to have some level ofsuccess to be able to, support
them continually.
That's where the last coupleyears have come in of really
growing and thinking much moreabout the future, as much as it
pains me and planning for it.
Having that ambition to getthere, and sharing that with the
(24:09):
agency and saying, this is howwe're gonna get there together.
Russel (24:12):
Wonderful.
I feel like you've given sometremendous amount of advice for
someone that, um, might be inyour shoes at some point,
stepping up, whether it's actualoutright ownership or stepping
into a strong leadershipposition within an agency.
Any words of advice for someone,and it might be a tougher
perspective, but I guess you cansay it from your perspective on,
um, someone that's maybe lookingto sell to team members or let
(24:34):
someone take over the business.
Anything in your own experienceyou could share from that side
of the table?
Derek (24:38):
From my point of view, my retrospective, I had so much
trust in who I was doing itwith, my partners.
Retrospectively I wish Iwould've dove into that
experience a bit more andunderstood really what, what we
were doing.
Kind of taking the, hey, iseverything good, what do you
need from me approach.
I would've switched that alittle bit.
I would've been a little bitmore, uh, upfront, but someone
(24:58):
looking to sell or someonelooking to sell internally.
How are you setting thattransition up?
I think really, really matters,like in, in really identifying
the roles and can people live upto those roles.
That's where we all, we've alsojust had to adjust and move and
say, okay, where do we reallyall fit?
What makes sense?
What do we wanna do?
What are we the best at?
(25:19):
What's gonna make us better?
What sets us up for the future?
So.
You're looking at that moment intime, it's really hard to think
five years out.
Because you're just trying tomake it happen where they're on
either side, right?
You're just trying to make ithappen.
My point of view now is justlike really think through what
those next phases are.
And ask more questions, ask alot more questions.
Yeah.
I learned on the gig a littlebit more like everything.
Russel (25:41):
We all gotta pay our tuition to the school of hard
knocks.
I think of that in my ownjourney of, you know, actually
selling an agency.
It can be very similar on bothsides of the table, right.
It is such a heavy lift to, tomake a business transaction
occur.
Derek (25:53):
Just to make it happen.
Russel (25:54):
If you look, yeah.
But how important it is to justkeep your eye on the ball out in
front of you while you're goingthrough that process as much as
you can.
It is so important.
I really can't stress it enoughand I, I think that's great that
you shared that.
If you actually look at a linegraph of the entire history of
the company's revenue from, fromwhen we found it from nothing to
where it even is today, the onlydip in revenue that will
(26:15):
actually show up on that linegraph is the year we sold the
business.
That was literally because ofthat, just so much effort and
mind, this mental capacity thatit was taking to do that.
Derek (26:25):
it's draining.
Russel (26:26):
Sounds like similar in your case.
Cool.
You got through it, you figuredit out.
If that's not a tattoo on yourforearm, then it better be after
this episode.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Derek (26:34):
No, I know, I know, I know.
They get sick of hearing it.
Russel (26:37):
It's all right though.
It is a very, can be a verycomforting thing, especially in
turmoil and chimes like, hey,let's not worry about that right
now.
We can have some time to asksome questions so we're not
oblivious, but just know thatwe're doing something hard and
we'll figure it out if we, aslong as we're committed to it.
I'm inspired.
Derek (26:51):
Appreciate that Russel.
Russel (26:52):
I can dig it.
You've alluded it to a littlebit, I feel like in how your
approach to the future is, but Idon't know if there's any more
to add to that question of justwhat is the, what does the
long-term game plan look for youguys?
Derek (27:01):
Like most agencies, we're really looking at growing and
improving as an agency, but whatthat entails right now for us is
a lot about what that next phaseis gonna need.
Where are we insufficient?
Right now where it's coming downto is like, okay, processes and
those sort of things, becausewe've always fluctuate,
fluctuated around 30, 40 people.
We've hit like upwards of 45.
(27:23):
50 always seems kind of dauntingfor a lot of agencies and do, do
I want to be 50 people?
Do I wanna be over 50 people?
Maybe, I don't know yet.
But in order to grow and just,support the clients that we
have, it's gonna be a lot aboutmaking sure the bright processes
are in place to support saidgrowth, and we're making the
right, decisions on how tosupport the team, whether it's
(27:45):
through processes, tools,people.
All those sort of elements thatwe, I haven't dug into as much,
uh, in the first couple yearsthat I have in the last two.
That's what I think is gonnahelp us start targeting, bigger
budgets, bigger clients.
A more full suite of servicesthat we do really provide.
You want that ongoing revenue aswell.
(28:06):
It's how do we make sure we'resupporting that ongoing revenue,
uh, as a team and everybodykinda understands how we think
about prioritization.
Russel (28:14):
Love that.
I love that.
And get to your 50thanniversary, the, the golden
anniversary.
The real, the one that wecelebrate for couples.
well, Very fascinating.
All right, one lastintrospective question for you,
Derek.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Derek (28:28):
If you're asking me, I, I was, was made into one.
My grandpa was an entrepreneur.
I don't think I ever woke up oneday and said, hey, I want to be
a CEO.
I think I was definitelyreluctant in that way, but
there's something about, like, Igo back to the people part of it
where, wanting to see a, a largegroup of people that enjoy each
(28:50):
other and want them to succeed.
That's maybe what's continued todraw me to this and, and how I
can affect it.
I was definitely made, I wasn't,wasn't born.
But you might have a differentpoint of view.
There's a part of me that justlike, yeah, it feels strange
sometimes to continue to reflecton what my role is and those
sort of things.
There's some reluctance there,but I, you know, I'll figure it
(29:11):
out.
Russel (29:11):
Of course you will.
yeah, no, I mean, That's why Ilove the question.
There's no, There probablyreally is no right or wrong
answer.
It's all some really mix of, ofthings and based upon the
individual, the circumstances,et cetera.
And, and Opportunity andsupport, going back to the
beginning of our conversation.
I was maybe just a tingesurprised as someone that came
from a very entrepreneurialbackground for some, you know,
(29:31):
that, that they wouldn't haveleaned a little more into that.
But I can appreciate it all thesame either way.
Derek (29:36):
I have like 14 cousins.
I'm the only one that doesn'tlive in southern Indiana, so I
was a little bit of like more, alittle bit black sheep.
I'm the only one that doesn'tlive like 30 minutes from where
my grandparents grew up.
I don't think I ever thought ofit as like, oh, I wanna own
something, build something.
Being kind of an art kid, uh, ata certain point in time where
you're just like, that'severything to you.
(29:57):
And now it's become more abouthow do I make this, you know,
I'm not expecting everybody tobe a Moxie Sozo lifer, but how
do I make this one of the bestexperiences of their career?
Is how I'm starting to reallylook at it that way.
Where it's like, how do, how doI help them grow, get where they
want, they want to go.
There's a lot of people I wantto continue to work with,
that's, not everybody's gonna belike me and just stick around or
(30:20):
leave and come back.
How do I make it enjoyable whenit's, when, when they're here
and they felt it was valuable?
Russel (30:24):
What a great question to ask and almost challenge to give
yourself and, and with therealization that it won't be
forever, but make it meaningfulfor while it is.
Probably couldn't do a morenoble thing in this world.
To that end, if people want tocome work for you or become an
unpaid in, no, sorry, not anunpaid intern paid intern.
Derek (30:41):
Pay, we pay,
Russel (30:42):
Be a paid intern at Moxie Sozo, where can they go?
Derek (30:45):
But you can go to moxiesozo.com.
That's M-O-X-I-E-S-O-Z O.com.
Or you can email me atderek.springston@moxiesozo.com.
Look us up.
Hit me up.
I'm always open to chat.
If you're ever in Boulder,Colorado, look us up.
We've got a great office here.
We're a hybrid workforce, butwe've still got a physical
(31:06):
office and those sort of things,which I know is, um, hit or miss
these days.
Russel (31:09):
Very cool.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to share your journey
today.
Happy 25th anniversary to MoxieSozo, and such great
perspectives on someone that hada very unique journey into where
you're at today.
Seems like you're approachingthis amazingly, and thank you
for sharing all those wonderfulinsights with us today, Derek.
Derek (31:27):
Thanks, Russel.
I really appreciate it.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(31:48):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
This is probably a year or two in, I was getting paid.
(32:10):
But this is probably a year ortwo in at the agency and myself,
uh, my sister and one of mypartners who's upstairs right
now, we went to a brewery, had afew drinks, but they were having
some games that you could win akeg.
Russel (32:24):
Sounds like trouble already.
Derek (32:25):
We're like, well, we're gonna participate clearly.
See if we can win.
We participate in this egg.
I think it was an egg race orwhatever.
We crushed.
We won easy, easy peasy.
So like, oh, cool, you can comeby tomorrow and pick up your
keg.
Tomorrow was a Friday.
Who has codes to the office?
We do.
Without telling our, ourfounder, and maybe this is how
he finds out, but withouttelling our founder, we tell
(32:48):
everybody, hey, we're gonnathrow a kegger in the office
tomorrow.
And, uh, we threw a kegger inthe office the next day.
Had the code, hauled up the keg,invited everybody we knew
downtown Pearl Street, Boulder.
We hung out.
We didn't tap it.
I can't remember.
We might have tapped it the nextday, which again, in your
twenties you can, you're likesuperhuman, but could not do
(33:11):
that today.
That one was just like, yeah,throwing a party in the office
without your boss knowing,probably aren't doing that so
much these days.
Anybody that wants to try ithere, I, I welcome it.
It'd be fine.
I wouldn't care.
Russel (33:24):
The funnest activities are not always the smartest.
We did some pretty silly, stupidstuff, and this is, as an owner
even, um, back in our earlydays.
Things that no way in heck wouldI have ever done.
Ever again.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast.
I'm your host, Russel.
What do keg parties, cleaningtoilets, and typography
obsession have in common forDerek Springston?
They're all chapters in theunexpected journey, from unpaid
intern to agency co-owner.
In this episode, Derek nowpartner and chief executive
officer at Boulder basedbranding agency, Moxie Sozo
(01:02):
shares how a bet on himself 16years ago turned into owning a
25 year legacy agency.
And what it really takes to leada team you once worked beside.
We cover Derrick's evolutionfrom just a designer to the
person responsible for buildingone of the best experiences of
someone's career.
He opens up about the difficulttransition from employee to
owner, the power of doinguncomfortable things, and how
(01:25):
his grandfather's leadershipstyle still influences him
today.
This is an aspirational andinspirational episode for anyone
looking to create an exit planand a legacy.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Derek Springston withMoxie Sozo with us here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Derek.
Derek (01:44):
Russel, thanks for having me.
Really appreciate it.
Russel (01:46):
I'm excited.
So many parts of your story Ireally enjoy and probably will
want to talk for six to sevenhours, but I'm guessing your
family might not appreciatethat, so I'll do my best to keep
it concise today.
Derek (01:57):
Family, clients, you know, some folks.
Life, those sort of things.
Russel (02:01):
Life, what's all this life getting in the way?
We'll listen to the universe.
Just start us off, out of thegate.
Tell us what Moxie Sozo does andwho you do it for, and we'll get
to the early days of yourjourney.
Derek (02:10):
Moxy Sozo, we're actually celebrating our 25th year in
business this year.
We're a branding agency out ofBoulder, Colorado.
We're most well known in the CPGindustry, so, uh, beer, wine,
spirits, food and beverage.
Really have been building brandsall the way from strategic
foundation, visual identity,packaging and activations, um,
(02:33):
now for really, yeah, over twodecades.
We're around 32 people right nowwith teams.
Everyone's in house, everyone'son the front range of Colorado,
and we've got strategic team,creative team, production team,
development team, uh, and nowadvertising team as well.
It's, um, a great group ofpeople that, uh, I couldn't ask
more for.
Russel (02:54):
Nice.
25 years.
That sounds like you guys gotsome cool things planned to
celebrate that, which, that's abig milestone.
Are you doing something?
What are you doing for your 25thanniversary?
Derek (03:03):
Leslie, who you met helps, uh, brand manage the
agency.
We've got a lot planned.
We're having an event nextmonth, uh, in, on the front
range for agencies around herebringing them in.
We're talking about ourselves,planning, how do you use that,
those, those marketing messages,uh, as well as you can, but I
mean, really it's, it's aboutcontinuing to do what we've been
(03:25):
doing for the last 25 years.
I can't take credit for allthose 25 years, so I'm like a
little different maybe than someof your other guests where I
didn't necessarily start thisagency, but I've been here, uh,
for around 15 years now and haveseen us evolve and change over
the years.
I took over the agency alongwith my partners, uh, about six
(03:45):
years ago.
Last six years have been kindof, um, navigating that, that
new role and guidance.
25, it is, it is pretty crazy.
Agencies getting to five to 10years now is always a feat so
it's, uh, I don't stop andreflect enough.
Russel (04:00):
It's like dog years.
Derek (04:01):
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
Russel (04:02):
Yes, you do have a unique origin story that I want
to get to in a little bit hereand uh, uh,'cause I don't often
come across necessarily uniqueorigin stories, so I'm really
excited about that part of theconversation.
Before we get all things agencylife and agency stuff, I wanna
go back to your origin story andtalk to us about young Derek.
What was he playing with athome?
(04:22):
What kind of toys?
What did he want to be when hegrow up?
Tell us all the good stuff.
Derek (04:25):
Oh, toys.
Oh man.
Lots of Teenage Mutant NinjaTurtles, we'll do that.
I grew up in southern Indiana,uh, rural Indiana.
My grandpa actually started aprinting company, uh, in a small
town of Holland, Indiana back inthe day.
He did that around the seventiesso I always kind of grew up
where my grandpa had thiscompany.
(04:47):
My dad who, who is hisson-in-law, not his son.
He ended up leaving his job asan engineer to go work for him
and help him run the business,eventually taking that over.
So young Derek spent a lot oftime at Woods Printing in
Indiana.
Shout to my sister who's runningit today.
It's was a lot, I, I startedworking there pretty young,
(05:07):
honestly, too.
Russel (05:08):
I was waiting for this child labor moment.
I just knew that had to exist.
Derek (05:12):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
There's levels to it.
8-year-old Derek, he cleaned thetoilets and, uh, then like 10,
12 you mopped and you did weedeating and you took care of the
yard and all that stuff.
Eventually started working inthe back room.
Doing collating.
The reason my grandpa startedthe printing industry or
printing business in the areawas there's a lot of furniture
(05:33):
companies in southern Indianaand, um, the, they all needed
price books, they all needed allthese things back in the day, in
the eighties and nineties wherenot everything was digital.
I started in the back roomcollating.
Having the, the ladies, youknow, boss me around as a
teenager and then eventually Iwas the delivery guy at 16, 17,
(05:53):
18.
Which that's not a, that's not agood hire, but, you know, my dad
let me do that for a while.
The thing that, uh, you know,that relates maybe to where I am
today is the pre-pressdepartment.
Always having access to Maccomputers and being able to
dabble around on some of theprograms that they had at the
time, whether it was Photoshopor Illustrator or Cork, if you
(06:14):
guys remember Cork.
There was some dabbling that Iwas allowed to do.
I would play video games ontheir computers too, but there
was definitely like someintriguing interest there.
Around the like kind of, theswatch books were always
fascinating to me'cause theywere always the coolest thing
that was in the office.
That was kind of how I startedunderstanding even what a design
(06:35):
role could be.
These were pre-press people,but, um, not necessarily saying,
oh, that's what I'm gonna do,but I at least knew of it, knew,
knew what it was, and was kindof interested.
That's how it kind of started.
Russel (06:46):
Very cool.
This is a classic nature versusnurture question of just do,
did, do you feel like theenvironment created this, this
design interest for you, or didyou already have that and just
in the right environment toexpand upon that as you were
sharing?
Derek (07:02):
It's a great question.
As I think I mentioned to youbefore, I, I'm not great at
introspection and why I've, I'vemade the choices that I've made
or I've done the things thatI've done, but I, I think that
piqued my interest.
They certainly weren't doing andprinting things that were mind
blowingly creative.
That wasn't their role.
And, um, I was good.
(07:24):
I was decent at art kind of in,early on in school and those
sort of things that, again, I'mnot an illustrator.
That wasn't necessarily mypassion, but there was always
curiosity there.
I don't know if I ever put my,my finger on it until like
college, so it, it wasdefinitely in the back of my
head somewhere.
It wasn't necessarily at theforefront.
(07:45):
I thought it was gonna go intoengineering, I think, uh, yeah,
I was a math major at one point.
That was not gonna happen.
Stuff like that.
I think it did lay somefoundations, but it was probably
recessive for a long time.
Russel (07:57):
I feel you on the math major thing.
I think like day negative 50, Ideclared math major right before
I even got into college.
Then I remember going throughorientation and seeing the
first, uh, like the, the kind ofrubric for all the classes you'd
have to take for math major andreally decided real quick, no,
that's not gonna be my major.
When like, calculus 10 is likethe second semester of freshman
(08:18):
year, and it's like, okay, yeah.
Bad choice Russel.
Derek (08:21):
You can get humbled real quick in calculus for economics.
That's where you can get humbledreal quick.
That first D minus, you're like,hmm, maybe I shouldn't do this.
Russel (08:31):
I say that, why I even thought this'cause I remember in
high school I took one day ofcalculus, got like one right on
my homework and said I'm nottaking calculus my senior year
of high school.
That really should have been thewake up call from me.
But clearly I was, loved math.
I don't even know but yeah, Ilove math.
But anyhow.
Get us to some of the early daysof your career and, um, and then
I know, I know we're not gonnabe too far away from, uh, your
(08:52):
agency life.
Derek (08:53):
In school, like I bounced around majors, was always kind
of taking some art classes onthe side, um, and eventually
applied for a BFA, uh, ingraphic design.
Found my people there.
I was like, oh, I don't have todraw all the things.
I kind of just became obsessedwith typography and that was
really when I knew, okay, thisis like the thing, like why do I
(09:13):
care, uh, you know, who designedBodoni?
I don't know but I do.
There was this really deepresearch that that's, that was
kind of, I was like, okay.
I found it and found some greatpeople.
Eventually came outta schoolaround'08,'09.
The history buffs know what waskind of going on there, so no
one was hiring.
I would always kind of thoughtof like, well, I'm not, I'm in
(09:35):
Indiana.
I went to Indiana University, soI was still in Indiana.
I knew as soon as I got outtacollege, I didn't wanna be in
Indiana.
No shade on people in Indiana.
I still go back a lot.
My family lives there.
I love Indiana.
Love how I grew up.
But there were other placeslike, okay, if no one's hiring,
I'm just gonna apply to theplaces where I wanna live.
I think I applied to, you know,some of, some of the standards
(09:55):
like San Francisco and New Yorkand those sort of things.
But my dad had always taken meto Colorado as a kid.
We came out here and learned flyfishing together back when I was
young, so I only knew ColoradoSummers.
Everybody thinks Colorado'scold, it is not.
Incredibly sunny all the time.
I only knew summers and it wasone of those places where I was
like, well, if I could liveanywhere, you know, just take a
(10:16):
shot.
Might as well apply someagencies in Colorado.
That's where Lee Steiner, MoxieSozo's founder, uh, emailed me
and said, hey.
We're not hiring, but you couldtotally come out here and be an
unpaid intern if you want.
I like your book.
You can come out here and workfor free.
I'll take a shot.
That was kind of the start of memoving out here.
Russel (10:33):
That was just like your first job at a, at essentially
college or, or, I don't evenknow.
Can you even call it a job?
Derek (10:40):
That was my first job outta college.
Nowadays you can't call that ajob.
It wasn't necessarily my firstjob in the industry.
I did some internshipsthroughout college for some
children's museum, and then Iworked for Indiana University,
um, in one of their departments,uh, where I designed all the
event flyers and those sort ofthings.
(11:01):
I had some, some workexperience, nothing, nothing
like agency experience, butbounced around some internships
there and some jobs throughoutcollege.
This was really my first realagency gig coming outta school.
I moved out here.
I had some savings where I waslike, I could make this work for
a few months.
If it doesn't work out, I'llfigure it out.
Took the risk, you know, and nowI'm here.
(11:22):
But there's a big, that's a bigleap.
Russel (11:24):
Okay.
I got a lot of questions aboutthis.
Derek (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, there's somequestions in there.
Russel (11:28):
I mean, right, not just an unpaid internship while
you're living in your parents'basement, an unpaid internship
while you're moving to acompletely, I mean, granted very
beautiful place you knew thatyou wanted to live.
Sounds like a crazy risky move.
I gotta just understand moreabout who you are.
Derek (11:43):
Again, not an introspective person.
I don't know if failure reallycrossed my mind.
Honestly, it was an in for anagency that I admired their
work.
As a career, at that point intime, it was really just about
getting better at being adesigner and wanting to kind of
learn from people that Iadmired.
(12:04):
Not knowing like it was a five,six person agency at the time.
Two people who I, are still, mypartners, um, are doing most of
the greatest work, uh, thatcomes out.
I think you, you kind of touchedon something there.
It was like, well is like, I'll,I'll put my head down.
I went to work at my parents'place at eight, like I really
did.
So there's a lot of like, putyour head down and put the
(12:26):
effort in.
You are gonna make mistakesalong the way, but yeah, I don't
know that I thought about whathappens if this doesn't work
out?
I had the support from my familytoo.
If I would've picked a differentstate, maybe my dad wouldn't
have been so stoked.
Russel (12:38):
They say, yeah, you should do that, son.
As long as you got an extra bedin your, uh, in the apartment,
uh, we're good.
Derek (12:44):
But I think he was like, great.
Yeah.
So, you know, I was definitelyfortunate there where, um, I
had, I had some savings that Ihad built up to, to be able to
do it and make the choice, andthen the family that was like,
yeah, go see what happens.
I don't think my dad was, like,thought that much of a graphic
design, uh, degree at the timeor, you know, a BFA degree.
It was, where can I go that Ican, I want to be, and um, learn
(13:08):
as much as possible.
That was really it.
I was like, oh, if somethingchanges, I'll just go with the
flow there.
I still act that way even todaywhere say there's a problem that
comes up and we're talking aboutit, inevitably I will always
say, we'll figure it out.
Because we will.
We will.
I've always had that mentalityas like, oh, I'll figure it out.
If something else has to happen,um, I'll put in the work or the
(13:31):
effort or the thought and, andfigure it out.
Russel (13:33):
So it's really kind of a, a bet on yourself.
What's the worst that can happenand if I, I just put my head
down and, and charge hard at it,and as we'll quote you, I'll
figure it out.
Derek (13:44):
Yeah.
I think it is, it is a lot aboutself-belief, but it is a lot,
you know, some, some privilegein there too.
Having a supportive family,having a support structure,
having great friends, those sortof things like where you can
bounce things off of.
I've never felt like on my ownnecessarily.
That also helps a lot.
There's some backup things.
Russel (14:02):
That's such a great thing to recognize and we all
have different levels of supportthat comes naturally, but even
wherever we're at on that scale,I think it's just a great
reminder of how importantsupport is and get that for
yourself.
Maybe even as a first steppingstone, if you're gonna try
something hard is what is yoursupport system.
That makes the hard endeavorsmore likely to turn out
(14:22):
successful.
Great reminder.
Great introspection.
You're already growing in thecourse of this podcast.
Derek (14:27):
Yeah, see, there you go.
It just takes the right personto ask, like, have you thought
about this?
Do you want to?
Russel (14:32):
Cleaning toilets might, we might have brought up some
traumatic, um, memories there.
Derek (14:35):
Hey, I'm still the cleaner in the family.
I clean our house.
That's maybe another issue whereit's the perfectionism, those
sort of things.
That's another thing
Russel (14:43):
That's fair.
How many, just so I can start toget an understanding as you
already dropped how long, youknow, you've been owning the
business.
How many years ago was this thatyou started your unpaid
internship?
Derek (14:52):
That was'08,'09, so that was 16 years ago and throughout
that, about five years in, um,so we were a pretty flat agency
at the time.
We were small when I started.
Five or six with a, with quite afew unpaid interns.
We grew pretty quickly thosefirst five years.
We probably got in the twentiesthere.
But we were really flatstructure and our, our founder,
(15:14):
who was the creative director,he controlled all the creative
and I wanted to go see what elsewas out there.
I took what I always say is likea year hiatus to another agency
called Interact.
They're also in CPG space.
They're a great agency too.
Went there for a year to betheir design director, another
small team.
But after a year, I reallymissed certain people back at
(15:35):
Moxie Sozo.
So much of it was about what Iliked doing and why I would put
as much effort into it or why Iwould stay late was who's
surrounding you.
Not that I didn't like thepeople I worked with at
Interact, it was just that, ifI'm gonna do this, I, there's,
there's a few folks at Moxiethat I want to do this with
consistently.
It's'cause they have the same,like, approach.
(15:56):
We were working on somethingtoday and there's, now there's
this shorthand that we'vedeveloped over the years and
it's it became a lot more oflike, well, if I'm gonna put in
all this effort, I'm gonna putin all this time to probably be
around the people that I want tobe around.
That led me back to Moxie.
Came back, um, as a associatecreative director and then kind
(16:16):
of grew from there.
We can talk about the role Ihave now, but it was, is that's
really when I started gettingmore client facing leading teams
and those sort of things.
Russel (16:26):
Okay.
Clearly, just building uptremendous amount of experience
as anyone that does that, um,works in a small setting, and
even as that grows, I feel likeeveryone at home right now is
just writing a note and maybetheir only takeaway from this
episode is gonna be get a lot ofunpaid interns.
Derek (16:41):
Yeah, no, you can't do that no more.
And Moxie Sozo, we pay all ofour interns now.
Russel (16:47):
Yes.
That was told to me very earlyon.
It's like, you can do unpaidinterns, but if you want to do
it by the book, it's way moredifficult than just pay'em, pay
'em 10 bucks an hour and youknow, you're, you're better off
in the long run.
Derek (16:58):
Absolutely.
There's none of that.
There's been some evolutionshere, especially since, since we
took over.
Russel (17:04):
Good disclaimer.
Department of Labor, do notlisten to this episode.
Moxie Sozo pays all interns.
Don't report us.
Derek (17:10):
Absolutely.
Russel (17:11):
When is that moment or did that transition start to
occur, or how did this allhappen that you even became an
opportunity to actually becomean owner?
Derek (17:18):
Our founder, uh, pulled a few of us aside who'd worked
together for a long time andbeen there and essentially
wanted to keep it in the familyand was like, hey, I'm thinking
about stepping away.
Would you all be interested intrying to make this work where
you guys could purchase theagency and, and take over?
Myself, uh, Nate Dyer, CharlesBloom, and John Supsic, the four
(17:39):
of us figured it out.
One of those, John Supsic is theCFO.
If he wasn't involved in thatpurchase, it probably, it would
not have happened.
Russel (17:47):
You gotta have a money guy, if you're gonna buy a
business.
Derek (17:49):
The other three of us are all creatives.
He was the money guy and, um,helped make that happen along
with Leif Steiner who was thefounder.
It was incredibly a big honorand, and trying to figure it
out.
But that, you know, became a lotdifferent.
Owning the company versus beinga contributor.
That was about six years ago.
We figured that out, and thosefirst few years.
(18:11):
And then, the pandemic and allthose sort of things, it was
some fast learning.
I think that we will figure itout.
It's kind of year to year, dayto day sometimes.
But that's how that came about.
We were recognized for the timeand effort in helping grow the
business and we were able toscrap together enough dollars to
make it work, get a loan, thosesort of things that you have to
(18:31):
do.
Again, we weren't the originalentrepreneur, but there's
definitely some of that thinkingthat goes into it.
That's how we put it together.
Russel (18:38):
Sorry, another introspection question for you.
I have to imagine there was justa literal day when you were no
long from on, on Friday, youwere the contributor, and Monday
you were part owner.
Do you have any big instantmemory oh, this is how it felt
different, or this is now how mythinking was almost on a dime,
like switching on a dime likethat?
Derek (18:57):
Just how you have to think.
Bringing up like those thoughtsof do I need to act different?
All these people who are mycoworkers, are now my employees.
That shift was interesting and Ithink it took me a while to
really live up to what you needto be.
Since I didn't start as the bossand now you're the boss.
(19:17):
I still think there's a lot ofwork on how to, how you live up
to that and how you support youremployees and many of which I
had worked with.
We're a nice split where there'sa lot of employees have been
here 8, 9, 10 years or plus, andthen half is more the younger
crowd and doing those sort ofthings.
There's some people I have a lotof history with and where I was
just a designer for a long timethat they, fed me work and I did
(19:40):
the work and gave it back.
It's an interesting dynamic whenthat changes.
It's like, how do you make sureyou're earning and garnering
their respect and, how are yousupporting them?
I think it's something I've hadto learn in the last, uh, last
few years especially.
Though a lot of that's havingsome frank and honest
conversations and hearing fromthem and, and not being overly
reactive.
(20:00):
I think the first few yearsthere's a lot of reactive of,
well, this, you can't do that'cause of this, and now I know
more about how the business isrun.
There's all these little factorsthat you, you learn about as you
get handed over the reins.
Especially from a financialperspective that gets in your
head and you have to continue tothink about it from, from the
(20:21):
employee perspective, in a lotof ways.
I try and balance that as bestas possible.
Russel (20:25):
No, no.
I was just gonna segue, then.
What intentionally did you feellike you had to do to navigate
that?
I think you shared, right?
It sounds like maybe even had togo a little slower than you
might have, your instinctswould've wanted you to go.
I'll do some introspection foryou, maybe, you can tell me if
I'm right or wrong.
That I don't know what I don'tknow and there's personalities
and, you know, it seems likeculture is really important to
you, so I'd rather play it slowand navigate some of those
(20:47):
dynamics.
I guess we'll go back to yourage old quote, we'll figure out
the rest along the way.
Derek (20:51):
Not only having to go a little bit slower, but not
avoiding it either.
You can't just dive back intowhat you're comfortable with or
what you've always done andthink that everything else is
gonna be okay.
Just because you thought thatway as an employee doesn't mean
everybody else does.
Does that make sense, whereit's, you know, you are not
them.
How you felt as an employee,just'cause you were okay with
it, doesn't, doesn't matter.
(21:12):
Getting out of the comfort zoneof yes, you're good at this and
you can make yourself as busy aspossible with things that you're
comfortable with.
I still do that to this day.
What can I do versus what do Ineed to do?
so Having those conversationsmore and more, how do people
work?
Understanding that.
I think I learned a lot of it.
Going back to my grandpa andthen my dad, seeing how they
treated their employees, um, andhow like my grandpa, like people
(21:36):
really wanted to talk to him andenjoyed talking to him.
So I think part of it over thelast few years is like trying to
retrospectively look back atthat and seeing how how I want
to help people and managepeople.
That's a good introspection Iguess.
I think it comes down, comesback to some of that, of what I
saw as a kid.
My grandpa and my dad bothplayed a huge role in just how
(21:58):
they really cared about thepeople.
Part of that is being in a smalltown, there's not a whole town,
there's not a whole other, otherjobs.
Russel (22:05):
You got no choice in some degree, in a small town.
Derek (22:07):
Yeah.
But it's all like, you put inwhat you get out, and that's the
same I think for how you, howyou treat people as well.
Russel (22:13):
Absolutely.
I'm gonna butcher the quote, soI'm not gonna say it exactly,
but it, but it made me think of,you know, just asking yourself
the question as a leader, how doyou want to be seen by people
and, and meeting them wherethey're at essentially is, seems
like the question you're askingand it is such important
question.
Then the other thing that I, Ifound pretty profound in what
you're saying is just this ideathat obviously you had a pretty
(22:34):
big event that kind of forcedthis transformation, this
different way of thinking inyou.
I don't think it's in, anydifferent than a lot of agency
owners just when they've been,you know, their business's kind
of stalled out or they're justreally not where they want to
be.
Probably requires sometransformation of yourself, your
approach, your way of thinkingin order to kind of jump those
hurdles, break down thoseobstacles, and not just relying
(22:56):
on kind of the whole, what, whatgot you here won't get you there
mentality, um, is, is not alwaysa good, is not something good to
rely on, I should say.
Derek (23:05):
The last couple years, you know, having some outside
mentors, um, that have done thisbefore because yeah, I have some
really limited experience and sodo my partners.
We have kind of the sameexperience where we're at this
agency for a long time and yeah,we've seen us change and we've
seen the agency change.
Being able to accept like, hey,this is how, this is who I am,
(23:27):
this is how I want this, thisagency to act and be and, and
all those sort of things.
Bringing in some mentors andhaving those conversations where
they can say, they can thecliche, like they can show you a
mirror and say, well, here'swhere you're, you're gonna stall
out.
Here's where I see some bumps inthe road that if you, if you
don't address these sort ofthings, like how are you gonna
grow?
(23:47):
How are you gonna affect theteam?
And if the team is wantingsomething, how are you gonna
reach that?
You have to have some level ofsuccess to be able to, support
them continually.
That's where the last coupleyears have come in of really
growing and thinking much moreabout the future, as much as it
pains me and planning for it.
Having that ambition to getthere, and sharing that with the
(24:09):
agency and saying, this is howwe're gonna get there together.
Russel (24:12):
Wonderful.
I feel like you've given sometremendous amount of advice for
someone that, um, might be inyour shoes at some point,
stepping up, whether it's actualoutright ownership or stepping
into a strong leadershipposition within an agency.
Any words of advice for someone,and it might be a tougher
perspective, but I guess you cansay it from your perspective on,
um, someone that's maybe lookingto sell to team members or let
(24:34):
someone take over the business.
Anything in your own experienceyou could share from that side
of the table?
Derek (24:38):
From my point of view, my retrospective, I had so much
trust in who I was doing itwith, my partners.
Retrospectively I wish Iwould've dove into that
experience a bit more andunderstood really what, what we
were doing.
Kind of taking the, hey, iseverything good, what do you
need from me approach.
I would've switched that alittle bit.
I would've been a little bitmore, uh, upfront, but someone
(24:58):
looking to sell or someonelooking to sell internally.
How are you setting thattransition up?
I think really, really matters,like in, in really identifying
the roles and can people live upto those roles.
That's where we all, we've alsojust had to adjust and move and
say, okay, where do we reallyall fit?
What makes sense?
What do we wanna do?
What are we the best at?
(25:19):
What's gonna make us better?
What sets us up for the future?
So.
You're looking at that moment intime, it's really hard to think
five years out.
Because you're just trying tomake it happen where they're on
either side, right?
You're just trying to make ithappen.
My point of view now is justlike really think through what
those next phases are.
And ask more questions, ask alot more questions.
Yeah.
I learned on the gig a littlebit more like everything.
Russel (25:41):
We all gotta pay our tuition to the school of hard
knocks.
I think of that in my ownjourney of, you know, actually
selling an agency.
It can be very similar on bothsides of the table, right.
It is such a heavy lift to, tomake a business transaction
occur.
Derek (25:53):
Just to make it happen.
Russel (25:54):
If you look, yeah.
But how important it is to justkeep your eye on the ball out in
front of you while you're goingthrough that process as much as
you can.
It is so important.
I really can't stress it enoughand I, I think that's great that
you shared that.
If you actually look at a linegraph of the entire history of
the company's revenue from, fromwhen we found it from nothing to
where it even is today, the onlydip in revenue that will
(26:15):
actually show up on that linegraph is the year we sold the
business.
That was literally because ofthat, just so much effort and
mind, this mental capacity thatit was taking to do that.
Derek (26:25):
it's draining.
Russel (26:26):
Sounds like similar in your case.
Cool.
You got through it, you figuredit out.
If that's not a tattoo on yourforearm, then it better be after
this episode.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Derek (26:34):
No, I know, I know, I know.
They get sick of hearing it.
Russel (26:37):
It's all right though.
It is a very, can be a verycomforting thing, especially in
turmoil and chimes like, hey,let's not worry about that right
now.
We can have some time to asksome questions so we're not
oblivious, but just know thatwe're doing something hard and
we'll figure it out if we, aslong as we're committed to it.
I'm inspired.
Derek (26:51):
Appreciate that Russel.
Russel (26:52):
I can dig it.
You've alluded it to a littlebit, I feel like in how your
approach to the future is, but Idon't know if there's any more
to add to that question of justwhat is the, what does the
long-term game plan look for youguys?
Derek (27:01):
Like most agencies, we're really looking at growing and
improving as an agency, but whatthat entails right now for us is
a lot about what that next phaseis gonna need.
Where are we insufficient?
Right now where it's coming downto is like, okay, processes and
those sort of things, becausewe've always fluctuate,
fluctuated around 30, 40 people.
We've hit like upwards of 45.
(27:23):
50 always seems kind of dauntingfor a lot of agencies and do, do
I want to be 50 people?
Do I wanna be over 50 people?
Maybe, I don't know yet.
But in order to grow and just,support the clients that we
have, it's gonna be a lot aboutmaking sure the bright processes
are in place to support saidgrowth, and we're making the
right, decisions on how tosupport the team, whether it's
(27:45):
through processes, tools,people.
All those sort of elements thatwe, I haven't dug into as much,
uh, in the first couple yearsthat I have in the last two.
That's what I think is gonnahelp us start targeting, bigger
budgets, bigger clients.
A more full suite of servicesthat we do really provide.
You want that ongoing revenue aswell.
(28:06):
It's how do we make sure we'resupporting that ongoing revenue,
uh, as a team and everybodykinda understands how we think
about prioritization.
Russel (28:14):
Love that.
I love that.
And get to your 50thanniversary, the, the golden
anniversary.
The real, the one that wecelebrate for couples.
well, Very fascinating.
All right, one lastintrospective question for you,
Derek.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Derek (28:28):
If you're asking me, I, I was, was made into one.
My grandpa was an entrepreneur.
I don't think I ever woke up oneday and said, hey, I want to be
a CEO.
I think I was definitelyreluctant in that way, but
there's something about, like, Igo back to the people part of it
where, wanting to see a, a largegroup of people that enjoy each
(28:50):
other and want them to succeed.
That's maybe what's continued todraw me to this and, and how I
can affect it.
I was definitely made, I wasn't,wasn't born.
But you might have a differentpoint of view.
There's a part of me that justlike, yeah, it feels strange
sometimes to continue to reflecton what my role is and those
sort of things.
There's some reluctance there,but I, you know, I'll figure it
(29:11):
out.
Russel (29:11):
Of course you will.
yeah, no, I mean, That's why Ilove the question.
There's no, There probablyreally is no right or wrong
answer.
It's all some really mix of, ofthings and based upon the
individual, the circumstances,et cetera.
And, and Opportunity andsupport, going back to the
beginning of our conversation.
I was maybe just a tingesurprised as someone that came
from a very entrepreneurialbackground for some, you know,
(29:31):
that, that they wouldn't haveleaned a little more into that.
But I can appreciate it all thesame either way.
Derek (29:36):
I have like 14 cousins.
I'm the only one that doesn'tlive in southern Indiana, so I
was a little bit of like more, alittle bit black sheep.
I'm the only one that doesn'tlive like 30 minutes from where
my grandparents grew up.
I don't think I ever thought ofit as like, oh, I wanna own
something, build something.
Being kind of an art kid, uh, ata certain point in time where
you're just like, that'severything to you.
(29:57):
And now it's become more abouthow do I make this, you know,
I'm not expecting everybody tobe a Moxie Sozo lifer, but how
do I make this one of the bestexperiences of their career?
Is how I'm starting to reallylook at it that way.
Where it's like, how do, how doI help them grow, get where they
want, they want to go.
There's a lot of people I wantto continue to work with,
that's, not everybody's gonna belike me and just stick around or
(30:20):
leave and come back.
How do I make it enjoyable whenit's, when, when they're here
and they felt it was valuable?
Russel (30:24):
What a great question to ask and almost challenge to give
yourself and, and with therealization that it won't be
forever, but make it meaningfulfor while it is.
Probably couldn't do a morenoble thing in this world.
To that end, if people want tocome work for you or become an
unpaid in, no, sorry, not anunpaid intern paid intern.
Derek (30:41):
Pay, we pay,
Russel (30:42):
Be a paid intern at Moxie Sozo, where can they go?
Derek (30:45):
But you can go to moxiesozo.com.
That's M-O-X-I-E-S-O-Z O.com.
Or you can email me atderek.springston@moxiesozo.com.
Look us up.
Hit me up.
I'm always open to chat.
If you're ever in Boulder,Colorado, look us up.
We've got a great office here.
We're a hybrid workforce, butwe've still got a physical
(31:06):
office and those sort of things,which I know is, um, hit or miss
these days.
Russel (31:09):
Very cool.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to share your journey
today.
Happy 25th anniversary to MoxieSozo, and such great
perspectives on someone that hada very unique journey into where
you're at today.
Seems like you're approachingthis amazingly, and thank you
for sharing all those wonderfulinsights with us today, Derek.
Derek (31:27):
Thanks, Russel.
I really appreciate it.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(31:48):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
This is probably a year or two in, I was getting paid.
(32:10):
But this is probably a year ortwo in at the agency and myself,
uh, my sister and one of mypartners who's upstairs right
now, we went to a brewery, had afew drinks, but they were having
some games that you could win akeg.
Russel (32:24):
Sounds like trouble already.
Derek (32:25):
We're like, well, we're gonna participate clearly.
See if we can win.
We participate in this egg.
I think it was an egg race orwhatever.
We crushed.
We won easy, easy peasy.
So like, oh, cool, you can comeby tomorrow and pick up your
keg.
Tomorrow was a Friday.
Who has codes to the office?
We do.
Without telling our, ourfounder, and maybe this is how
he finds out, but withouttelling our founder, we tell
(32:48):
everybody, hey, we're gonnathrow a kegger in the office
tomorrow.
And, uh, we threw a kegger inthe office the next day.
Had the code, hauled up the keg,invited everybody we knew
downtown Pearl Street, Boulder.
We hung out.
We didn't tap it.
I can't remember.
We might have tapped it the nextday, which again, in your
twenties you can, you're likesuperhuman, but could not do
(33:11):
that today.
That one was just like, yeah,throwing a party in the office
without your boss knowing,probably aren't doing that so
much these days.
Anybody that wants to try ithere, I, I welcome it.
It'd be fine.
I wouldn't care.
Russel (33:24):
The funnest activities are not always the smartest.
We did some pretty silly, stupidstuff, and this is, as an owner
even, um, back in our earlydays.
Things that no way in heck wouldI have ever done.
Ever again.
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