August 12, 2025 • 35 mins
Company: AOR
Guests: Alyssa Ash
Year Started: 2011
Employees: 25-50
What if your journey to owning an agency started without you even knowing it? In this episode, Alyssa Ash, Partner at AOR, shares how she went from junior designer to co-owner of a leading creative and digital agency. You’ll hear the behind-the-scenes story of a years-long leadership transition, the lessons learned along the way, and how she’s navigating an unpredictable business landscape.
Key Takeaways
- How to spot and develop future leaders from within your team
- Why a long runway is essential for a smooth ownership transition
- The role of curiosity and initiative in creating career-defining opportunities
- How to lead confidently while still embracing discomfort
- An insider’s perspective on what it takes to transition from team member to owner
Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
She thought she was just doing her job, but in reality
she was being prepared forownership.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast, I'm your host Russel..
In this episode, I sit down withAlyssa Ash, partner at AOR,
Denver based, creative anddigital agency serving
municipalities, localgovernments, and real estate.
Alyssa's journey a rare one,starting as a graphic designer
(01:04):
and over the years earning herway into ownership alongside two
of her peers.
We dive into the surprisingoffer that set her on her path
to becoming an owner.
The culture that encouragedentrepreneurial thinking long
before she held the title, andthe strategies that made for a
smooth years in the makingleadership transition.
You'll walk away with a freshperspective into how to build
(01:24):
future leaders from within andhow embracing comfortable
discomfort can be the fuel forpersonal and business growth.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Alyssa Ash with AOR withus here today.
Thank you so much for joining.
Alyssa (01:38):
Thanks for having me on.
Russel (01:39):
As I understand it, not to call you out, but this is
your first podcast.
Alyssa (01:42):
Correct.
I am excited.
I've been wanting to dopodcasting for a while.
I'm excited.
Russel (01:47):
I'm very honored that, uh, An Agency Story is the first
opportunity for you get to this.
I can't wait to hear and learnmore about your agency journey,
and quite an interesting one aswell, that we'll get into.
But before we do all that, I'dlove to just hear what does AOR
do and who do you do it for?
Alyssa (02:04):
AOR is a creative and digital agency.
We're based in Denver, Coloradoand we focus primarily on
branding, marketing, and web formunicipalities, local
governments, and real estate.
Russel (02:13):
Well spoken elevator pitch there.
Alyssa (02:16):
Succinct.
Russel (02:16):
Succinct.
There you go.
That's an important thing to getdown.
Work on your elevator pitch.
It can't hurt.
Well, Before we get down to theagency business, I wanna hear
about young Alyssa, long beforeshe ever thought about owning an
agency.
Alyssa (02:27):
That's a, a good way to start.
I was around a lot of artistsgrowing up and so, uh, my uncle
owned a sign shop, did handpainted signs, um, all growing
up.
Yeah.
Big redwood signs.
He used a router to cut'em allup and then hand painted.
And so I actually worked for himin the summers, which was pretty
fun.
That gave me two things, right?
That gave me the, uh, view intoentrepreneurship, the good and
(02:49):
the bad, um, and also just theart side of things.
And so I ended up going tocollege for graphic design.
At the time 2003 was when Istarted college.
It was really focused on more ofthe traditional aspects of
design.
Not a lot of digital, but peoplewere starting to talk about it
and and I knew it was somethingI needed to get into if I wanted
to, you know, be marketable asan employee.
(03:09):
and so I did in college get acouple internships that helped
with that.
One was with a smaller dev shopand they taught me how to code.
At the time we were coding inTables.
Russel (03:18):
Oh Tables, man.
There it goes at memory lane.
Alyssa (03:21):
It was kind of funny 'cause I learned how to code
like on the tail end of that.
So I learned that for a briefsecond and then quickly was
moving into more of how we'recoding now, which is obviously
always evolving, but that reallypiqued my interest into the web
side of things and digital ingeneral.
Also worked with an in-housemarketing agency on campus that
just showed me kinda howagencies work with, um, you
(03:42):
know, an account team,designers, developers.
I absolutely loved that, and Iknew that's what I wanted to do.
There was no question I wantedto work in the agency
environment when I graduated.
Russel (03:51):
This sounds like this is a picture perfect path.
No diversion, guardrails on andeverything.
You were just, you had your headdown and on a mission.
Alyssa (03:58):
There were little spots along, you know, I wanted to be
an interior designer for a whileand, um, little things along the
way, but it worked out reallywell how it, how it all came
together.
I wasn't doing it strategicallyat the time, it was just things
I was interested in.
Yeah, so Post-college, moved toDenver and really had my eyes on
a few agencies.
It was 2008, spring of 2008 whenI moved here.
(04:18):
Recession hit, everyone waspausing, freezing hiring,
internships and whatnot.
I ended up settling into a, anin-house department for about a
year and a half, um, before Igot my job at AOR in 2011.
Russel (04:29):
Awesome.
When you brought back upTableist design, it, there's so
many memories and I rememberthat was, that was back at, you
know, in the late 2000, you weretouting that as saying, well,
we're we, do we do Tablelessdevelopment now?
That was a big credibilitystatement.
Um, what I always love youngentrepreneur stories.
Is there anything that standsout?
When you think of now your, yourentrepreneurial career, a little
(04:49):
bit of like, oh man, that was areal lesson learned back at the
old sign shop?
Alyssa (04:53):
My dad was also a serial entrepreneur and I think I
probably heard more of thenegative aspects of it and the
stressors of it than, than thepositive.
But I still, it's what I knewand it's what I wanted
eventually.
Yeah, I, I don't know if therewas ever, ever a time where I, I
guess going into college I didget an entrepreneurship
certificate and got and tooknight classes, um, to learn just
(05:15):
the basics of business.
You know, I had never really duginto the financial side of it or
any of that.
I obviously had a, um, interestin the marketing side of it, but
into the other areas just piquedmy interest even more, I think.
Russel (05:27):
Man, just a constant sponge for all things that are,
I mean, we're just clearly gonnaend up owning a business
someday.
Alyssa (05:32):
Worked out well.
Russel (05:33):
You subtly mentioned there that, um, the, that you
got a job at the agency that wenow know that you are the, an
owner of.
You said what, this is 2008, or,sorry, what was the, what was
the timeframe there?
Alyssa (05:43):
2011 was when I started at AOR.
Russel (05:46):
Okay.
2011.
All right.
There's a tale here.
You start out just as a graphicdesigner.
Alyssa (05:51):
Started at the time the agency was just nine people.
We were doing a lot oftraditional direct mail branding
work.
But we were starting to get, AORwas starting to get requests for
web, I was brought on to helpgrow that area.
I think at first I was justbrought on'cause they needed
design help.
As I started learning thebusiness and realizing where
they wanted to go with it, I sawwhere I could help.
Yeah, I went from designer toum, and was doing some front-end
(06:13):
development as well, to likethat digital director position
and then we ended up acquiring asmall dev shop to just kinda
jump over that hump and startgetting more, more web work.
And with that, brought in somedevs, um, to help.
From there, um, just hit theground running with, with
websites.
Now we're about 50/50 between,um, WordPress, custom WordPress
(06:34):
sites and branding andmarketing.
Russel (06:35):
I mean, Clearly we're coming on at a transitional time
for the agency.
Seems like I'm getting the hintthat you were leading that
effort or at the forefront ofthat effort.
Alyssa (06:44):
I was helping.
Russel (06:45):
Helping.
Alyssa (06:45):
Yes, I was helping.
Russel (06:46):
I don't know if you're giving yourself full credit
there, but, but I guess I amcurious to go back to and how
you think of that.
Do you feel like you were evenat a relatively young age in, in
entering the business?
Do you feel like you were kindof approaching it already with
an entrepreneurial mindset orwere you just, hey, this is a
job I'm working for the man andum, I'm gonna do a good job,
but, I'm not trying to makemillions of dollars or something
along those lines?
Alyssa (07:07):
I definitely saw it as a challenge to grow.
Especially when we acquired thedev shop.
I didn't know what went intothat financially or anything
like that, but I saw it as anopportunity, like, now we have
the people, let's, let's buildsome more sites.
One of the big things that weworked out really early in that
process is just recurringrevenue and figuring out what
can we offer, um, with ourwebsites that keeps, you know,
(07:29):
keeps that partnership alivewith our clients.
That still is a big part of, ofour agency and of our business.
I think just thinking like thatearly on and figuring out not
only how can we grow this, buthow can we, you know, create
like sticky relationships, um,with that recurring revenue
model was, that was probably myfirst kind of like
entrepreneurial idea that Ipitched to our former owner that
(07:53):
like really took off running andmade, you know, made a
difference in the business.
Credit to them'cause they werevery, AOR is still, AOR'S
culture is still very much, youknow, everyone should be
thinking about the business andpitching those ideas and
whatnot.
I'm glad I felt comfortabledoing that back then.
Russel (08:07):
Obviously it has to be somewhat ingrained in your
personality, but when youbalance that of how much was
that culture kind of cultivatingthat opportunity and that
mindset from you versus your ownnatural talents and ability?
Alyssa (08:18):
I think the culture of it was huge.
At the time we were a small,very scrappy shop and it was so
easy to come up with an idea andimplement it.
you know, There wasn't a lot ofprocess behind it.
We just figured it out and, um,and I think that helped a lot.
And just the comfortability,right?
Just being confident in yourideas and comfortable pitching
(08:38):
them to your boss and then thembeing like, with it, you know?
It's what every like young,entrepreneurial minded person
needs or wants.
Russel (08:46):
Okay, so, all right, so there's some opportunity,
clearly a good culture that'sfostering, you know, your, your
ambition and your ability to,um, make an impact within the
business.
It sounds like, you know, takingon kind of a new, I don't know
what you call it, genre of work,start to walk me into the first
instance of like, oh, you, theremight be a time for you to take
over this thing?
Alyssa (09:06):
Honestly, I, I think I was pretty naive to the whole
process.
Me and my business partners, soI have two business partners,
um, kind of grew up in theagency, right?
Like They started around thesame time as I, as I did.
and by the time, you know, Fastforward to 2019, the three of us
are directors of each of thedepartments.
One's focused on finance andops, one's focused on client
(09:29):
relationships, um, new businessand then I was, I am focused on
solutions and strategy,overseeing the creative and
digital teams.
I was just kind of, you know,focused on, um, doing the work
and getting the work done anddoing a good job.
uh, and We never hadconversations with the former
owners in terms of exit planningor anything like that.
When they approached us andsaid, hey, we think you three
(09:51):
are the ones that should takethis company forward, I was
like, I was blindsided.
I was like.
Okay.
Russel (09:57):
It's all part of the plan.
Alyssa (09:58):
I was equal parts, you know, super nervous.
Am I ready for this?
But also, this is pretty cool.
This is what I've always wanted,you know, and, um, at least like
the loose framework of what Iwas looking for.
And so, um.
I guess, yeah, Up until thatconversation, it wasn't ever
like, the three of us neverreally talked about it as a, as
a potential or an opportunity.
(10:19):
It was just kind of just piecedtogether over time, which was
nice.
Behind the scenes, they knewexactly what they were doing.
They knew years before thatconversation that they wanted us
to own the business eventually.
And so They just like made surethat we were, that they were
fostering our relationship, thatwe were getting pushed more and
more into a position ofleadership.
(10:39):
While that conversationsurprised me afterwards, it was
like, oh, okay.
I see what's going on here.
This makes sense.
I mean, They did such a good jobof making it really seamless and
natural.
After that conversation too, Imean it took us, um, it wasn't
like you're gonna take overtomorrow.
It was, you know, we're lookingfive to 10 years out when we
probably wanna exit thebusiness, gave us ample time to
(11:01):
get ready.
Just continued, you know, havingthat initial conversation in
2019 and then COVID hits.
By then we were kind of runningthe day to day and then COVID
hit and the owners took a littlebit more of a step back and just
kind of, you know, they kepttaking small steps back as we
took small steps forward and itjust worked out really nicely,
um, and seamlessly.
Russel (11:20):
I hear a lot of agency stories and the whole, um, start
as an employee, eventuallybecome an owner.
It's not the first one I'veheard, but I'd say it's very
rare.
I know a lot of owners, youknow, think about this day
someday when, you know, whetherthey actually exit the business
or not, that I don't have tostep in and run things.
For those folks who are like, Iwant my own Alyssa story, um,
within my own business, when youthink about just how you were
(11:43):
cultivated in that sense, what'syour like one or two pro tips
to, to, so other people canmaybe think in that same mindset
that the owners, uh, theprevious owners of AOR were
thinking?
Alyssa (11:52):
I feel like there's a few things from the owner's
perspective.
Once we had the initialconversation, we did a lot of
just like personality tests andwhatnot, leadership tests to
show the three of us, like, youknow, while we've been working
together for 10 years, it justunearthed some things in terms
of like how we communicate, whatour strengths are, what, like
what's our purview into theagency, um, what, how do we
(12:13):
work.
Those were really helpful,honestly.
You kind of know it, but just tosee it and a third party figure
it out pretty quickly, um, wasreally interesting.
I also do think that runway wasso helpful.
I mean, We were, pretty young,we were pretty naive.
We were, um, at least Ipersonally was like, I don't
know enough to do this.
(12:34):
I have so much to learn.
That runway gave us a chance toreally discover what it is that
we needed to learn to feelreally comfortable, um, moving
into ownership.
That was really nice.
And like I said, It wasn't likethe smoothest ride, don't get me
wrong.
I'm making it sound like it was,it was a blast.
But, um, it did give us time towork through those kinks, you
know?
Russel (12:53):
We could spend hours talking about every little rock
and bump in the way.
But I, I think those were reallygreat takeaways.
From my perspective of investingheavily in, in your team's
leadership abilities or growth,help them understand who they
are as a leader, uh, theircommunication style, uh,
different things like that.
I can see the value in that andthen the value of a long-term
game plan.
(13:13):
I almost kinda see this likekind of hearing you tell it, it
was almost two parts.
Even build the people up thatcould be the potential for it
and then once you kind of, youknow, drop the hammer in terms
of how they shared, announcingit, give it more time to
actually then let all the, all,like you're saying, all those
questions and things settle in.
Clearly they were game planningthis, creating a long-term play,
(13:34):
long before you were ever evenaware of it.
I think that's criticallyimportant is they didn't try to
rush this or make this happentoo fast.
Um, and then We know there'sgonna be some bumps along the
way.
Nothing good, nothing valuable,nothing, uh, awesome, um, comes
without some little road bumps,but, but let, let's talk about
that though for a second.
What is something like, oh, man,that this one specific aspect,
(13:55):
in this path, um, pre, preownership, this, this would've
made it a little better?
Alyssa (14:00):
Honestly, been an owner for a year and a half.
I feel like I have so much tolearn.
I think when we first startedthe conversations I, and when we
first took over ownership,imposter syndrome, so much.
It's taken me a while to reallyget comfortable in the position
and, um, and just like, youknow, positive self-talk and
having the support of mypartners and all supporting each
(14:22):
other is huge.
I think for those solo ownersout there, like I have so much
respect for solo owners.
We get to kind of divide theworkload, the stress, all of it,
and it's another, it's a wholedifferent ball game when it's
all on you.
yeah, I mean, I just think, ingeneral, like that's probably
like my own confidence.
My own self-talk has probablybeen the biggest hurdle.
(14:44):
I'm all about reps.
The more I can do something, themore I put myself in those
uncomfortable positions, themore I'm comfortable.
That negative, um, self talkingand whatnot, it kind of fades
away.
Russel (14:53):
It's all about reps.
How conscious of a thought wasthat as you were going through
the process like, oh, there'ssomething I need to go do, um,
and experience it?
There's something I need to golike, being very proactive in
identifying and living out thosereps, as you say.
Alyssa (15:07):
I definitely have room for improvement.
Getting myself outta my comfortzone.
But in general, I think I'm avery curious person.
For the most part, it happensrelatively naturally, but
sometimes I do have to pushmyself or I need kind of that
push from somebody else.
but Really what it comes down tois what does the business need?
It's not necessarily about megrowing, but it's what will
(15:28):
strengthen the business and ourteam and our clients and that
sort of thing.
That's what I, lean into more,more often than not when I need
to go into, know, get outta mycomfort zone a little bit.
Russel (15:39):
I love that.
One of the things I wrote downand, and I'm, I'm a big believer
in this, when we are lookingthroughout our business and
seeing who, who might be thefuture potential leaders, and,
and this can be a misnomer, Ithink we've got some misguided,
um, I'm gonna say culture, maybelet's just say in the US about
what a leader actually lookslike.
But I wrote down a note tomyself, the reluctant leader you
(15:59):
mentioned, imposter syndrome.
I think that's such an importanttrait because this idea that I
have to show up in every day andI might not be quite good
enough, but that's the actualmotivation of the drive that
says, for my culture, for myteam, for the company, for, for
my peers, my partners, that, um,that I'm just gonna try harder
and I'm going to figure thisthing out.
That's the place you actuallyhave to come from'cause you
(16:20):
think you got it figured out.
You're only a, a two by four tothe face around the corner, um,
if, if you think that.
yeah.
So, So in hindsight, I knowimposter syndrome feels, um, um,
I don't dunno.
It's kind of a bad feeling alittle bit, but I don't know.
Do you appreciate your impostersyndrome a little more?
Alyssa (16:38):
I think so.
It's a little bit of humility.
That little bit of humble,humbleness is, is good, I think,
for anybody.
It is motivation to work harderand to get outta your comfort
zone.
I, I envy people that don't haveimposter syndrome or haven't
been through that, like that'sfabulous.
That's really amazing.
But I do think, at least for meand my personality, it is a bit,
(17:00):
bit of a motivator, um, becauseyou don't wanna feel that way,
right?
The motivation is to get, justto bring us full circle, to get
those reps in so that, so thatthat does start going away and
you start feeling more confidentin, in what you're doing and
just comfortable in your ownshoes.
Russel (17:15):
It's a journey, as you're sharing.
Another thing I'm, I'm curiousabout, right, so, so they, they
shared this with you.
How did that start to changeeven just your relationship with
who, the folks that are gonnaeventually become your, your
co-owners?
Did you guys start havingplanning circles and just
thinking about how you're gonnago about this thing?
What was that relationship like?
Alyssa (17:33):
When we started getting into actually, you know, the
process of the acquisition, um,it was, yeah, it was a lot of, a
lot of conversations in terms ofnot only like, what do we want
now, but what do we want in thelong term?
Making sure that we're all onthis, on all on the same page.
Like I said, one of the, one ofmy partners is focused on
(17:53):
finance and ops, and so he hasessentially been the CFO of AOR
for the last 10 years, which isvery nice to have when you're
buying a business.
And so A lot of it was himeducating us on, um, just the
ins and outs of the businessbusiness, right?
Like I have always had my eyeon, um, the product and the
(18:14):
solutions and the strategies.
Kind of rounding it out with,um, the other parts of the
business, um, was a big part ofthe learning and that was a big
part of gaining confidence,right?
I need to know that I understandthis thing if I'm gonna help run
it.
so yeah, I think, I think just,uh, the three of us, I mean we
spent a lot of time togetherthere when we were planning.
It was during COVID, um, and wejust, and we still, I mean we've
(18:38):
always met multiple times a weekand um, that was true too, like
leading up to the acquisition.
But what was nice during COVID,we had, um, we were essentially
running the agency.
Like A lot of our new employeesthat we hired during that time
didn't really even know theformer owners by then.
And so it was so nice'cause wecould run the agency, but then
we had the former owners assupport too, right?
(19:01):
We call them up anytime and belike, what would you do in this
situation?
That was kind of like rightbefore we acquired it, we were
pretty much there, or 99% there.
Russel (19:10):
Okay.
Yeah, But you basically said it,but I just want to clarify, is,
you know, they were, Even beforethe transaction took place, they
were stepping, you were taking astep forward, they're taking a
step back and so by the time theactual transition occurs, it's,
it's really just more of apaperwork than some big giant
shift in the business.
And I think that's always a, youknow, I I, whether that's
(19:30):
actually leading to anacquisition.
That was even how, you know,reminds me of how we even
approached, um, people enteringinto kind of a management or a
leadership role within ourbusiness.
It's not, oh, tomorrow you'regonna do this role and good
luck.
It was that, hey, take, take 10%of this, take 10 more percent of
this, take 10 more percent ofthis.
At some point you're at that 90ish percent level and like,
okay, now let's do it.
(19:51):
You're basically there.
That was such a better way foreveryone it seems like involved,
um, the, the, the to, to havethe more gradual approach.
Sounds like you would, if youwere to do it all over again,
you'd do it the same way.
To the, uh, Curious question andto the extent you're comfortable
and can share detail, I mean,somewhere in this thing there
has to be a lot of risk that youfeel like you might be taking on
(20:12):
by going about this.
Like, What was the risk you weretaking on by taking over the
business?
Alyssa (20:16):
What was the risk I was taking on?
I will say that the risk wasmuch less because of the three,
the three person partnership.
That gave me solace.
Again, like we worked reallyclosely with the former owners
to, um, to get it to a pointwhere we were all very
comfortable with the amount ofrisk that was being taken.
Obviously, um, there's a,there's financial risk, um, a
(20:37):
little bit of financial risk andwhatnot, but they believed in us
so much and worked with us tojust get it to a level that was
fair to them, but it was also,you know, somewhat comfortable
to us.
So, There's always risk, but,um, it doesn't keep me up at
night, which is nice.
Can't say of anything that seemsthat was ever having me question
whether or not to do it.
Russel (20:57):
I'm just taking that to say kind of the, the whole path,
it's, it is like this is, I haveroom to grow in my abilities,
but this is a no-brainer.
Alyssa (21:03):
We definitely signed up for things that are long term
and we have no idea what's gonnahappen in the future.
There's a little bit of riskthere, but, um, yeah, for the
most part it's, it's manageableand again, with three, it helps
a lot.
Russel (21:17):
All right.
If I had to give like a theme tothis episode so far, I, you
could probably interchange iteither way, comfortably,
uncomfortable or uncomfortablycomfortable, um, is, is the, is
an ongoing feeling that's goodto have within the business.
Alyssa (21:29):
Yeah.
I like that.
Russel (21:30):
Which one is it though?
Is it uncomfortably comfortableor comfortably uncomfortable,
are they the same?
Alyssa (21:35):
It probably changes day by day, right?
Russel (21:36):
Yeah.
I guess the other stakeholdersin this is the team's
perception.
How knowledgeable were they orwas it not until the transaction
occurred?
How How did you integrate theminto this whole thing?
Alyssa (21:46):
It was very smooth because of, especially because
of know, the gradual transition.
We had an SOA, which is ourquarterly agency meeting and
everyone was in office and, um,and the former owners hadn't.
Russel (21:59):
Is this post transaction?
Alyssa (22:01):
This is post transaction.
Leading up to it, no, we didn'treally share it.
Honestly, we just didn't knowhow long it was gonna take and,
you know, we didn't wanna likekeep kicking the can down the
road and, um, and it, it did endup taking longer just because of
all the uncertainty that washappening at the time.
So we didn't really, um, sharethe news until after it went
through.
Again, like the owners were, hadstepped so far back that a lot
(22:23):
of the, um, employees just knewus as running the agency.
Overall it was really smooth.
yeah, I mean, there's still a,There is still a pressure,
right?
Post ownership just, you know,just being kind of extra focus
on the business and thatstability and making sure that
it, everything's runningsmoothly and we're managing
change and we're keeping thisculture intact.
(22:45):
I definitely felt that pressurepost ownership, like, okay, this
is on us now.
But for the most part, I thinkthe team was fabulous and, you
know, very congratulatory and,um, yeah, couldn't, couldn't
have asked for a bettertransition from a, from a team
perspective.
Russel (22:59):
Everything that we've, we've kind of discussed at this
point, it's been gradual, it'swhen it's made sense, you
haven't rushed anything.
Was there any just like, uh, andI know you talked about imposter
syndrome, but I don't know, justlike once it was all said and
done and you, and you were kindof on, on the other side of it,
like, oh, I see this differentlynow.
Was there any major perceptionchange on your end that that,
that you made note of?
Alyssa (23:18):
I think one thing that I've been struggling with a
little bit is you prettyautomatically change, um, what
you're focused on in thebusiness?
I'm no longer focused on, um,well I still am.
It layers on I guess, but mysole focus is not on the work
and launching the websites and,uh, making sure, you know, no
bugs and all that.
I think what happens with thattransition is sometimes it's
(23:41):
hard to lose or it's, it's easyto lose the perspective of the
team and the employee.
Even though you were just there,you were just in that seat, but
your perspective or your purviewhas changed so much that
sometimes, um, you, it takesmore thought to really determine
like, how, how is this going tobe interpreted by the team?
You know, Those bigger messages,um, that's something that I
(24:04):
didn't expect, honestly.
I thought, uh, from a, you know,moving from that employee to
owner, like, you know, I've beenthere, I've done that.
I know exactly, you know, howthe, how the team will take this
or how people will react, butit's not that easy.
Russel (24:17):
That's really saying something, right?
Like you're saying, someone justnot that far removed from being
exactly in that, in those shoes,that I think it's really even a
wake up for folks that have beenin that owner seat.
You just can't ever get to thepoint where you assume, you
know, and that's a good questionto ask yourself to continually
put yourself in that mindset,'cause if it's hard for you,
it's gotta be doubly hard foranyone else.
(24:39):
You shared earlier thatpartnership, it's got, it's a
lot of pros, right?
Divide and conquer, you know,different skill sets, different
things you can bring to thetable at that kind of owner's
mindset level.
But one of the challenges canalso be with ownership is shared
vision and alignment and, youknow, looking at the long haul
of the business and are we allagree that the gap, the path
we're on is the, the path weneed to be on, on that?
(24:59):
How has that gone for you andwhat do you guys do to, to stay
aligned in,
Alyssa (25:03):
That's a really good question and we haven't hit any
major roadblocks with that.
I'm sure we will in, our tenureas owners, but, um, one of, and
nothing groundbreaking, I don'tthink, but we, we do have a
great network.
We have, um, a couple differentpeer groups that we meet with
that just keep us accountable,help us kind of talk through
those things with, you know,other owners.
(25:25):
And That's always really niceand it just brings up a lot of
conversations that might notcome up during the day to day.
We also meet a lot and we reallytry to keep our bigger
conversations for our in-personmeetings.
We don't try to, you know, solvethings over Slack or email.
We just kind of keep a runninglist.
Obviously if it's a timesensitive matter and we have to
(25:46):
jump on a call and, you know,troubleshoot something, we'll do
that.
But I do think that helps uskeep focused.
And just having, you know, ourstrategy well laid out and kind
of knowing where we're headed.
Obviously there's gonna be smallpivots along the road, but, um,
making sure that we're all onthe same page.
And Honestly, I do feel likethis is something we can
probably do a better job of justmaking sure, like I had up
(26:09):
marketing, my business partnerhas up sales.
just making sure that everythingis constantly in alignment,
which we of course strive for,but sometimes it, it starts to
shift and we need to correct it.
Russel (26:19):
My takeaway from there is, and I think this, this can
happen in all sorts of differentways in an agency, but how we
shouldn't rehash strategy on thefly or anything along those
lines, like you're kind ofsaying through Slack, we wait
till we have these, hey, this isa strategy session.
This is a construct to assessour alignment or our future of
the business.
Not to say there's littleconversation aside, but we
don't, we don't rehash strategyon the fly.
Alyssa (26:40):
Our team is very invested in the strategy too.
Leading up to our state of theagency, our quarterly all team
meetings, we, we definitely, um,we meet quite a bit on strategy
and making sure that we're goingin, you know, um, with a very
cohesive and actionable plan aswell.
Our leadership's involved,involved with that as well.
Russel (26:59):
Speaking of long-term strategy, what does the future
hold?
What does that big vision youguys have for AOR in the future?
Alyssa (27:05):
I wish I could say we have a big vision.
It's hard right now, right?
I think with AI we're, we'rereally at a crossroads, um, just
in an agency, in the agencylandscape, right?
I think there's, um, a lot ofagencies that could fall behind
during this period.
There's a lot of agencies thatcan really thrive and right now
we're just really trying to keepan eye on that and making sure
(27:26):
that, um, we're constantlylearning and staying ahead of
the game when it comes to AI andall the things that, that are
happening,'cause I, I trulybelieve that it is going to
transform how we do business andit's gonna happen faster than,
than we think.
What that big vision is outthere is a little bit
questionable right now because Ido think so much is going to
change in the next couple ofyears.
but.
(27:47):
In general, one of the biggestthings that we really focus on
as an agency is our culture andkeeping that intact.
It's something that has stoodthe test of time from the
original founders to us.
so I wanna make sure thatwhoever takes over this agency
next, um, that culture hasremained and, and we're true to
our roots throughout that.
But honestly, like right now,I'm very focused on the
(28:09):
uncertainty that's happening inthe business climate.
We work with a lot ofmunicipalities and a lot of
local government that is feelingthis very heavily.
We're really just trying tosupport them and figure out what
can we do to help them getthrough this because we know it
will foster our relationship andwe'll be there on the other side
when they get through it.
That's kind of the immediatething that we're focusing on
(28:29):
right now.
Russel (28:30):
In turbulent times, I think that's always the best
question to ask and I don't getto hear as many COVID stories.
A little more removed from, um,COVID, I guess you could say.
But that was the big lessonlearned from so many agencies
that, you know, when, when timeswere tough, who do we serve and
what do they need?
If you focus on that, it'sgonna, it's gonna go well for
you or, or it's not gonna go asbad as it could maybe is another
(28:52):
way to put it.
We can't be in control ofeverything.
You dropped another little hitthere.
You're thinking about the nextgeneration of owners of AOR.
Are you taking the lessons fromyour owner and, and starting to
like, yeah, I think, uh, I thinkJimmy over there might be a good
fit for leadership someday?
How are you looking at that?
Alyssa (29:08):
I'd be lying if I said I don't think about that every
once in a while.
Because that's the model weknow, you know.
Part of the reason the formerowners decided to do an internal
sale is because of that culture,and they wanted to make sure
that AOR was in good hands.
As of right now, I think verymuch in that, in that same vein.
That being said, we're, we're aways out, so I'm trying not to
worry too much, uh, aboutanything.
Russel (29:30):
You're like, damn, Russel.
I'm just a year and a half intothis, stop asking me about, uh,
about selling it all over again.
Alyssa (29:35):
Yeah.
We're in the infancy.
We got a life ahead of us.
Not planning our estate yet.
Russel (29:40):
Fair enough.
All right, well, We'll bring youback for round two, um, when,
when we get further down thatpath.
But, uh, sounds, Sounds likeyou're enjoying it, sounds like
you're, you're staying true tothe roots, sounds like you've,
you've got a good path and goodplan in terms of how you're
going about this.
So, all, all This is gonna gowell.
I'm gonna put that in thefortune cookie right now.
I guess then I got one last bigquestion for you.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Alyssa (30:02):
I've been thinking about this and I, I'm sure this is the
answer you get most of the time.
It's a combination.
Russel (30:07):
I think that would be, There would be more notches in
the combo, um, bed post thanothers.
Alyssa (30:11):
Yes.
I do think that people are bornwith certain traits that, that
definitely make them strongentrepreneurs.
As long as that seed is wateredthroughout their life, I, I
really feel like there's a lotof potential.
Being made, I, I think, justbeing put in positions that, um,
that expose you toentrepreneurship, whether it's,
within your family or your jobsor whatever.
(30:32):
and Expose you to leading,leading a team or a dance troupe
or whatever it is.
Just, getting, getting thatexperience, I think, all ladders
up to being a greatentrepreneur.
I think that the born is true,but also, uh, you gotta water
that seed and nurture it throughfor it to grow.
Russel (30:50):
Pick a ratio like are we, 51/49
Alyssa (30:53):
man, I think, well, I mean, I do think that having
those traits is a big part ofit.
Maybe it's 60/40, having thosetraits and then just making sure
that those traits come alive, Iguess.
Russel (31:04):
All right.
I'll take it.
60/40.
I guess, you know, Another justa little nugget that, um, I
think is important there is thatexposure piece.
You've got to experience this ina different way, but I think
sometimes as owners, we canforget of all the little things
that we learned because we arethe only ones exposed, to it
when we were coming up in thebusiness.
So If we want to have any chanceof someone coming in and filling
our shoes just in the way youhave, that we have to give them
(31:26):
exposure.
If they don't get it, thatyou're never gonna get that,
you're never gonna get yourAlyssa story.
That's a good takeaway forfolks.
Thank you for sharing that.
Well, If people know more aboutAOR, where can they go?
Alyssa (31:36):
Thinkaor.com is our website and that can take you
to, we're pretty active onLinkedIn, um, Instagram.
Either any of those places aregood places to go.
Russel (31:45):
All right.
Head to the socials folks.
Thinkaor.com.
Wonderful conversation today,Alyssa.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share your unique journey.
So many little insights abouthow, how you can build up
leaders within your business.
It's all about having a gameplan.
It's all about building thatrunway, investing in that path,
and if you do, are good thingswill come.
Really appreciate you being theinspiration and taking the time
(32:07):
to share that with us today.
Alyssa (32:08):
Thank you, Russel.
It's been a great conversation.
It's a pleasure, thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(32:31):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
We have our annual client party here at the office,
(32:53):
and typically, you know, we're,we're with clients early in the
evening.
It's more of like a happy, happyhour, cocktail hour, so it's
like four to seven, and thenafterwards it's the team, you
know, just bonding and, uh, goodtime.
Back in the day, we, we used togo pretty late into the night
and it was a good time.
We're all agencies, weunderstand.
Since I feel like with the nextgeneration coming up, we're,
(33:15):
we're a little bit well behaved,but, but one time we had the
party, and at the time I had ababy, and so I was coming in
early and, and ending early.
So I would come in at 6:30, 7:00AM and leave.
So The next day, because I had ababy, I went to bed early, other
people didn't.
I showed up at the office at6:30 in the morning and it was
still dark.
And I noticed that the alarmdidn't go off.
(33:36):
I thought, that's kind of weird.
Someone must have forgotten.
All the doors were locked, soeverything was secure.
It was good.
I'm sitting at my desk and I'mgetting to work and I hear an, a
phone alarm go off and I'm like,ugh, someone left their phone
here.
So I go over to where I hear thephone alarm and our intern at
the time didn't make it homeand, uh, was sleeping under the
desk.
I got to be the one to wake himup and, and help him find his
(33:59):
ride home.
That was kind of a story thatwent, went down in history'cause
um, that was the first time Ihad ever seen that, you know, in
my experiences with our parties.
So That was kinda of funny butalso really alarming, to be
honest, because it was so earlyin the morning and I thought I
was by myself in this bigoffice.
And then, you know, there wassomebody, you know, taking a
snooze 20 feet from me.
Russel (34:17):
For the young folks, are you living your best life if you
haven't slept under your deskafter a company office party?
I just don't know.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
She thought she was just doing her job, but in reality
she was being prepared forownership.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast, I'm your host Russel..
In this episode, I sit down withAlyssa Ash, partner at AOR,
Denver based, creative anddigital agency serving
municipalities, localgovernments, and real estate.
Alyssa's journey a rare one,starting as a graphic designer
(01:04):
and over the years earning herway into ownership alongside two
of her peers.
We dive into the surprisingoffer that set her on her path
to becoming an owner.
The culture that encouragedentrepreneurial thinking long
before she held the title, andthe strategies that made for a
smooth years in the makingleadership transition.
You'll walk away with a freshperspective into how to build
(01:24):
future leaders from within andhow embracing comfortable
discomfort can be the fuel forpersonal and business growth.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Alyssa Ash with AOR withus here today.
Thank you so much for joining.
Alyssa (01:38):
Thanks for having me on.
Russel (01:39):
As I understand it, not to call you out, but this is
your first podcast.
Alyssa (01:42):
Correct.
I am excited.
I've been wanting to dopodcasting for a while.
I'm excited.
Russel (01:47):
I'm very honored that, uh, An Agency Story is the first
opportunity for you get to this.
I can't wait to hear and learnmore about your agency journey,
and quite an interesting one aswell, that we'll get into.
But before we do all that, I'dlove to just hear what does AOR
do and who do you do it for?
Alyssa (02:04):
AOR is a creative and digital agency.
We're based in Denver, Coloradoand we focus primarily on
branding, marketing, and web formunicipalities, local
governments, and real estate.
Russel (02:13):
Well spoken elevator pitch there.
Alyssa (02:16):
Succinct.
Russel (02:16):
Succinct.
There you go.
That's an important thing to getdown.
Work on your elevator pitch.
It can't hurt.
Well, Before we get down to theagency business, I wanna hear
about young Alyssa, long beforeshe ever thought about owning an
agency.
Alyssa (02:27):
That's a, a good way to start.
I was around a lot of artistsgrowing up and so, uh, my uncle
owned a sign shop, did handpainted signs, um, all growing
up.
Yeah.
Big redwood signs.
He used a router to cut'em allup and then hand painted.
And so I actually worked for himin the summers, which was pretty
fun.
That gave me two things, right?
That gave me the, uh, view intoentrepreneurship, the good and
(02:49):
the bad, um, and also just theart side of things.
And so I ended up going tocollege for graphic design.
At the time 2003 was when Istarted college.
It was really focused on more ofthe traditional aspects of
design.
Not a lot of digital, but peoplewere starting to talk about it
and and I knew it was somethingI needed to get into if I wanted
to, you know, be marketable asan employee.
(03:09):
and so I did in college get acouple internships that helped
with that.
One was with a smaller dev shopand they taught me how to code.
At the time we were coding inTables.
Russel (03:18):
Oh Tables, man.
There it goes at memory lane.
Alyssa (03:21):
It was kind of funny 'cause I learned how to code
like on the tail end of that.
So I learned that for a briefsecond and then quickly was
moving into more of how we'recoding now, which is obviously
always evolving, but that reallypiqued my interest into the web
side of things and digital ingeneral.
Also worked with an in-housemarketing agency on campus that
just showed me kinda howagencies work with, um, you
(03:42):
know, an account team,designers, developers.
I absolutely loved that, and Iknew that's what I wanted to do.
There was no question I wantedto work in the agency
environment when I graduated.
Russel (03:51):
This sounds like this is a picture perfect path.
No diversion, guardrails on andeverything.
You were just, you had your headdown and on a mission.
Alyssa (03:58):
There were little spots along, you know, I wanted to be
an interior designer for a whileand, um, little things along the
way, but it worked out reallywell how it, how it all came
together.
I wasn't doing it strategicallyat the time, it was just things
I was interested in.
Yeah, so Post-college, moved toDenver and really had my eyes on
a few agencies.
It was 2008, spring of 2008 whenI moved here.
(04:18):
Recession hit, everyone waspausing, freezing hiring,
internships and whatnot.
I ended up settling into a, anin-house department for about a
year and a half, um, before Igot my job at AOR in 2011.
Russel (04:29):
Awesome.
When you brought back upTableist design, it, there's so
many memories and I rememberthat was, that was back at, you
know, in the late 2000, you weretouting that as saying, well,
we're we, do we do Tablelessdevelopment now?
That was a big credibilitystatement.
Um, what I always love youngentrepreneur stories.
Is there anything that standsout?
When you think of now your, yourentrepreneurial career, a little
(04:49):
bit of like, oh man, that was areal lesson learned back at the
old sign shop?
Alyssa (04:53):
My dad was also a serial entrepreneur and I think I
probably heard more of thenegative aspects of it and the
stressors of it than, than thepositive.
But I still, it's what I knewand it's what I wanted
eventually.
Yeah, I, I don't know if therewas ever, ever a time where I, I
guess going into college I didget an entrepreneurship
certificate and got and tooknight classes, um, to learn just
(05:15):
the basics of business.
You know, I had never really duginto the financial side of it or
any of that.
I obviously had a, um, interestin the marketing side of it, but
into the other areas just piquedmy interest even more, I think.
Russel (05:27):
Man, just a constant sponge for all things that are,
I mean, we're just clearly gonnaend up owning a business
someday.
Alyssa (05:32):
Worked out well.
Russel (05:33):
You subtly mentioned there that, um, the, that you
got a job at the agency that wenow know that you are the, an
owner of.
You said what, this is 2008, or,sorry, what was the, what was
the timeframe there?
Alyssa (05:43):
2011 was when I started at AOR.
Russel (05:46):
Okay.
2011.
All right.
There's a tale here.
You start out just as a graphicdesigner.
Alyssa (05:51):
Started at the time the agency was just nine people.
We were doing a lot oftraditional direct mail branding
work.
But we were starting to get, AORwas starting to get requests for
web, I was brought on to helpgrow that area.
I think at first I was justbrought on'cause they needed
design help.
As I started learning thebusiness and realizing where
they wanted to go with it, I sawwhere I could help.
Yeah, I went from designer toum, and was doing some front-end
(06:13):
development as well, to likethat digital director position
and then we ended up acquiring asmall dev shop to just kinda
jump over that hump and startgetting more, more web work.
And with that, brought in somedevs, um, to help.
From there, um, just hit theground running with, with
websites.
Now we're about 50/50 between,um, WordPress, custom WordPress
(06:34):
sites and branding andmarketing.
Russel (06:35):
I mean, Clearly we're coming on at a transitional time
for the agency.
Seems like I'm getting the hintthat you were leading that
effort or at the forefront ofthat effort.
Alyssa (06:44):
I was helping.
Russel (06:45):
Helping.
Alyssa (06:45):
Yes, I was helping.
Russel (06:46):
I don't know if you're giving yourself full credit
there, but, but I guess I amcurious to go back to and how
you think of that.
Do you feel like you were evenat a relatively young age in, in
entering the business?
Do you feel like you were kindof approaching it already with
an entrepreneurial mindset orwere you just, hey, this is a
job I'm working for the man andum, I'm gonna do a good job,
but, I'm not trying to makemillions of dollars or something
along those lines?
Alyssa (07:07):
I definitely saw it as a challenge to grow.
Especially when we acquired thedev shop.
I didn't know what went intothat financially or anything
like that, but I saw it as anopportunity, like, now we have
the people, let's, let's buildsome more sites.
One of the big things that weworked out really early in that
process is just recurringrevenue and figuring out what
can we offer, um, with ourwebsites that keeps, you know,
(07:29):
keeps that partnership alivewith our clients.
That still is a big part of, ofour agency and of our business.
I think just thinking like thatearly on and figuring out not
only how can we grow this, buthow can we, you know, create
like sticky relationships, um,with that recurring revenue
model was, that was probably myfirst kind of like
entrepreneurial idea that Ipitched to our former owner that
(07:53):
like really took off running andmade, you know, made a
difference in the business.
Credit to them'cause they werevery, AOR is still, AOR'S
culture is still very much, youknow, everyone should be
thinking about the business andpitching those ideas and
whatnot.
I'm glad I felt comfortabledoing that back then.
Russel (08:07):
Obviously it has to be somewhat ingrained in your
personality, but when youbalance that of how much was
that culture kind of cultivatingthat opportunity and that
mindset from you versus your ownnatural talents and ability?
Alyssa (08:18):
I think the culture of it was huge.
At the time we were a small,very scrappy shop and it was so
easy to come up with an idea andimplement it.
you know, There wasn't a lot ofprocess behind it.
We just figured it out and, um,and I think that helped a lot.
And just the comfortability,right?
Just being confident in yourideas and comfortable pitching
(08:38):
them to your boss and then thembeing like, with it, you know?
It's what every like young,entrepreneurial minded person
needs or wants.
Russel (08:46):
Okay, so, all right, so there's some opportunity,
clearly a good culture that'sfostering, you know, your, your
ambition and your ability to,um, make an impact within the
business.
It sounds like, you know, takingon kind of a new, I don't know
what you call it, genre of work,start to walk me into the first
instance of like, oh, you, theremight be a time for you to take
over this thing?
Alyssa (09:06):
Honestly, I, I think I was pretty naive to the whole
process.
Me and my business partners, soI have two business partners,
um, kind of grew up in theagency, right?
Like They started around thesame time as I, as I did.
and by the time, you know, Fastforward to 2019, the three of us
are directors of each of thedepartments.
One's focused on finance andops, one's focused on client
(09:29):
relationships, um, new businessand then I was, I am focused on
solutions and strategy,overseeing the creative and
digital teams.
I was just kind of, you know,focused on, um, doing the work
and getting the work done anddoing a good job.
uh, and We never hadconversations with the former
owners in terms of exit planningor anything like that.
When they approached us andsaid, hey, we think you three
(09:51):
are the ones that should takethis company forward, I was
like, I was blindsided.
I was like.
Okay.
Russel (09:57):
It's all part of the plan.
Alyssa (09:58):
I was equal parts, you know, super nervous.
Am I ready for this?
But also, this is pretty cool.
This is what I've always wanted,you know, and, um, at least like
the loose framework of what Iwas looking for.
And so, um.
I guess, yeah, Up until thatconversation, it wasn't ever
like, the three of us neverreally talked about it as a, as
a potential or an opportunity.
(10:19):
It was just kind of just piecedtogether over time, which was
nice.
Behind the scenes, they knewexactly what they were doing.
They knew years before thatconversation that they wanted us
to own the business eventually.
And so They just like made surethat we were, that they were
fostering our relationship, thatwe were getting pushed more and
more into a position ofleadership.
(10:39):
While that conversationsurprised me afterwards, it was
like, oh, okay.
I see what's going on here.
This makes sense.
I mean, They did such a good jobof making it really seamless and
natural.
After that conversation too, Imean it took us, um, it wasn't
like you're gonna take overtomorrow.
It was, you know, we're lookingfive to 10 years out when we
probably wanna exit thebusiness, gave us ample time to
(11:01):
get ready.
Just continued, you know, havingthat initial conversation in
2019 and then COVID hits.
By then we were kind of runningthe day to day and then COVID
hit and the owners took a littlebit more of a step back and just
kind of, you know, they kepttaking small steps back as we
took small steps forward and itjust worked out really nicely,
um, and seamlessly.
Russel (11:20):
I hear a lot of agency stories and the whole, um, start
as an employee, eventuallybecome an owner.
It's not the first one I'veheard, but I'd say it's very
rare.
I know a lot of owners, youknow, think about this day
someday when, you know, whetherthey actually exit the business
or not, that I don't have tostep in and run things.
For those folks who are like, Iwant my own Alyssa story, um,
within my own business, when youthink about just how you were
(11:43):
cultivated in that sense, what'syour like one or two pro tips
to, to, so other people canmaybe think in that same mindset
that the owners, uh, theprevious owners of AOR were
thinking?
Alyssa (11:52):
I feel like there's a few things from the owner's
perspective.
Once we had the initialconversation, we did a lot of
just like personality tests andwhatnot, leadership tests to
show the three of us, like, youknow, while we've been working
together for 10 years, it justunearthed some things in terms
of like how we communicate, whatour strengths are, what, like
what's our purview into theagency, um, what, how do we
(12:13):
work.
Those were really helpful,honestly.
You kind of know it, but just tosee it and a third party figure
it out pretty quickly, um, wasreally interesting.
I also do think that runway wasso helpful.
I mean, We were, pretty young,we were pretty naive.
We were, um, at least Ipersonally was like, I don't
know enough to do this.
(12:34):
I have so much to learn.
That runway gave us a chance toreally discover what it is that
we needed to learn to feelreally comfortable, um, moving
into ownership.
That was really nice.
And like I said, It wasn't likethe smoothest ride, don't get me
wrong.
I'm making it sound like it was,it was a blast.
But, um, it did give us time towork through those kinks, you
know?
Russel (12:53):
We could spend hours talking about every little rock
and bump in the way.
But I, I think those were reallygreat takeaways.
From my perspective of investingheavily in, in your team's
leadership abilities or growth,help them understand who they
are as a leader, uh, theircommunication style, uh,
different things like that.
I can see the value in that andthen the value of a long-term
game plan.
(13:13):
I almost kinda see this likekind of hearing you tell it, it
was almost two parts.
Even build the people up thatcould be the potential for it
and then once you kind of, youknow, drop the hammer in terms
of how they shared, announcingit, give it more time to
actually then let all the, all,like you're saying, all those
questions and things settle in.
Clearly they were game planningthis, creating a long-term play,
(13:34):
long before you were ever evenaware of it.
I think that's criticallyimportant is they didn't try to
rush this or make this happentoo fast.
Um, and then We know there'sgonna be some bumps along the
way.
Nothing good, nothing valuable,nothing, uh, awesome, um, comes
without some little road bumps,but, but let, let's talk about
that though for a second.
What is something like, oh, man,that this one specific aspect,
(13:55):
in this path, um, pre, preownership, this, this would've
made it a little better?
Alyssa (14:00):
Honestly, been an owner for a year and a half.
I feel like I have so much tolearn.
I think when we first startedthe conversations I, and when we
first took over ownership,imposter syndrome, so much.
It's taken me a while to reallyget comfortable in the position
and, um, and just like, youknow, positive self-talk and
having the support of mypartners and all supporting each
(14:22):
other is huge.
I think for those solo ownersout there, like I have so much
respect for solo owners.
We get to kind of divide theworkload, the stress, all of it,
and it's another, it's a wholedifferent ball game when it's
all on you.
yeah, I mean, I just think, ingeneral, like that's probably
like my own confidence.
My own self-talk has probablybeen the biggest hurdle.
(14:44):
I'm all about reps.
The more I can do something, themore I put myself in those
uncomfortable positions, themore I'm comfortable.
That negative, um, self talkingand whatnot, it kind of fades
away.
Russel (14:53):
It's all about reps.
How conscious of a thought wasthat as you were going through
the process like, oh, there'ssomething I need to go do, um,
and experience it?
There's something I need to golike, being very proactive in
identifying and living out thosereps, as you say.
Alyssa (15:07):
I definitely have room for improvement.
Getting myself outta my comfortzone.
But in general, I think I'm avery curious person.
For the most part, it happensrelatively naturally, but
sometimes I do have to pushmyself or I need kind of that
push from somebody else.
but Really what it comes down tois what does the business need?
It's not necessarily about megrowing, but it's what will
(15:28):
strengthen the business and ourteam and our clients and that
sort of thing.
That's what I, lean into more,more often than not when I need
to go into, know, get outta mycomfort zone a little bit.
Russel (15:39):
I love that.
One of the things I wrote downand, and I'm, I'm a big believer
in this, when we are lookingthroughout our business and
seeing who, who might be thefuture potential leaders, and,
and this can be a misnomer, Ithink we've got some misguided,
um, I'm gonna say culture, maybelet's just say in the US about
what a leader actually lookslike.
But I wrote down a note tomyself, the reluctant leader you
(15:59):
mentioned, imposter syndrome.
I think that's such an importanttrait because this idea that I
have to show up in every day andI might not be quite good
enough, but that's the actualmotivation of the drive that
says, for my culture, for myteam, for the company, for, for
my peers, my partners, that, um,that I'm just gonna try harder
and I'm going to figure thisthing out.
That's the place you actuallyhave to come from'cause you
(16:20):
think you got it figured out.
You're only a, a two by four tothe face around the corner, um,
if, if you think that.
yeah.
So, So in hindsight, I knowimposter syndrome feels, um, um,
I don't dunno.
It's kind of a bad feeling alittle bit, but I don't know.
Do you appreciate your impostersyndrome a little more?
Alyssa (16:38):
I think so.
It's a little bit of humility.
That little bit of humble,humbleness is, is good, I think,
for anybody.
It is motivation to work harderand to get outta your comfort
zone.
I, I envy people that don't haveimposter syndrome or haven't
been through that, like that'sfabulous.
That's really amazing.
But I do think, at least for meand my personality, it is a bit,
(17:00):
bit of a motivator, um, becauseyou don't wanna feel that way,
right?
The motivation is to get, justto bring us full circle, to get
those reps in so that, so thatthat does start going away and
you start feeling more confidentin, in what you're doing and
just comfortable in your ownshoes.
Russel (17:15):
It's a journey, as you're sharing.
Another thing I'm, I'm curiousabout, right, so, so they, they
shared this with you.
How did that start to changeeven just your relationship with
who, the folks that are gonnaeventually become your, your
co-owners?
Did you guys start havingplanning circles and just
thinking about how you're gonnago about this thing?
What was that relationship like?
Alyssa (17:33):
When we started getting into actually, you know, the
process of the acquisition, um,it was, yeah, it was a lot of, a
lot of conversations in terms ofnot only like, what do we want
now, but what do we want in thelong term?
Making sure that we're all onthis, on all on the same page.
Like I said, one of the, one ofmy partners is focused on
(17:53):
finance and ops, and so he hasessentially been the CFO of AOR
for the last 10 years, which isvery nice to have when you're
buying a business.
And so A lot of it was himeducating us on, um, just the
ins and outs of the businessbusiness, right?
Like I have always had my eyeon, um, the product and the
(18:14):
solutions and the strategies.
Kind of rounding it out with,um, the other parts of the
business, um, was a big part ofthe learning and that was a big
part of gaining confidence,right?
I need to know that I understandthis thing if I'm gonna help run
it.
so yeah, I think, I think just,uh, the three of us, I mean we
spent a lot of time togetherthere when we were planning.
It was during COVID, um, and wejust, and we still, I mean we've
(18:38):
always met multiple times a weekand um, that was true too, like
leading up to the acquisition.
But what was nice during COVID,we had, um, we were essentially
running the agency.
Like A lot of our new employeesthat we hired during that time
didn't really even know theformer owners by then.
And so it was so nice'cause wecould run the agency, but then
we had the former owners assupport too, right?
(19:01):
We call them up anytime and belike, what would you do in this
situation?
That was kind of like rightbefore we acquired it, we were
pretty much there, or 99% there.
Russel (19:10):
Okay.
Yeah, But you basically said it,but I just want to clarify, is,
you know, they were, Even beforethe transaction took place, they
were stepping, you were taking astep forward, they're taking a
step back and so by the time theactual transition occurs, it's,
it's really just more of apaperwork than some big giant
shift in the business.
And I think that's always a, youknow, I I, whether that's
(19:30):
actually leading to anacquisition.
That was even how, you know,reminds me of how we even
approached, um, people enteringinto kind of a management or a
leadership role within ourbusiness.
It's not, oh, tomorrow you'regonna do this role and good
luck.
It was that, hey, take, take 10%of this, take 10 more percent of
this, take 10 more percent ofthis.
At some point you're at that 90ish percent level and like,
okay, now let's do it.
(19:51):
You're basically there.
That was such a better way foreveryone it seems like involved,
um, the, the, the to, to havethe more gradual approach.
Sounds like you would, if youwere to do it all over again,
you'd do it the same way.
To the, uh, Curious question andto the extent you're comfortable
and can share detail, I mean,somewhere in this thing there
has to be a lot of risk that youfeel like you might be taking on
(20:12):
by going about this.
Like, What was the risk you weretaking on by taking over the
business?
Alyssa (20:16):
What was the risk I was taking on?
I will say that the risk wasmuch less because of the three,
the three person partnership.
That gave me solace.
Again, like we worked reallyclosely with the former owners
to, um, to get it to a pointwhere we were all very
comfortable with the amount ofrisk that was being taken.
Obviously, um, there's a,there's financial risk, um, a
(20:37):
little bit of financial risk andwhatnot, but they believed in us
so much and worked with us tojust get it to a level that was
fair to them, but it was also,you know, somewhat comfortable
to us.
So, There's always risk, but,um, it doesn't keep me up at
night, which is nice.
Can't say of anything that seemsthat was ever having me question
whether or not to do it.
Russel (20:57):
I'm just taking that to say kind of the, the whole path,
it's, it is like this is, I haveroom to grow in my abilities,
but this is a no-brainer.
Alyssa (21:03):
We definitely signed up for things that are long term
and we have no idea what's gonnahappen in the future.
There's a little bit of riskthere, but, um, yeah, for the
most part it's, it's manageableand again, with three, it helps
a lot.
Russel (21:17):
All right.
If I had to give like a theme tothis episode so far, I, you
could probably interchange iteither way, comfortably,
uncomfortable or uncomfortablycomfortable, um, is, is the, is
an ongoing feeling that's goodto have within the business.
Alyssa (21:29):
Yeah.
I like that.
Russel (21:30):
Which one is it though?
Is it uncomfortably comfortableor comfortably uncomfortable,
are they the same?
Alyssa (21:35):
It probably changes day by day, right?
Russel (21:36):
Yeah.
I guess the other stakeholdersin this is the team's
perception.
How knowledgeable were they orwas it not until the transaction
occurred?
How How did you integrate theminto this whole thing?
Alyssa (21:46):
It was very smooth because of, especially because
of know, the gradual transition.
We had an SOA, which is ourquarterly agency meeting and
everyone was in office and, um,and the former owners hadn't.
Russel (21:59):
Is this post transaction?
Alyssa (22:01):
This is post transaction.
Leading up to it, no, we didn'treally share it.
Honestly, we just didn't knowhow long it was gonna take and,
you know, we didn't wanna likekeep kicking the can down the
road and, um, and it, it did endup taking longer just because of
all the uncertainty that washappening at the time.
So we didn't really, um, sharethe news until after it went
through.
Again, like the owners were, hadstepped so far back that a lot
(22:23):
of the, um, employees just knewus as running the agency.
Overall it was really smooth.
yeah, I mean, there's still a,There is still a pressure,
right?
Post ownership just, you know,just being kind of extra focus
on the business and thatstability and making sure that
it, everything's runningsmoothly and we're managing
change and we're keeping thisculture intact.
(22:45):
I definitely felt that pressurepost ownership, like, okay, this
is on us now.
But for the most part, I thinkthe team was fabulous and, you
know, very congratulatory and,um, yeah, couldn't, couldn't
have asked for a bettertransition from a, from a team
perspective.
Russel (22:59):
Everything that we've, we've kind of discussed at this
point, it's been gradual, it'swhen it's made sense, you
haven't rushed anything.
Was there any just like, uh, andI know you talked about imposter
syndrome, but I don't know, justlike once it was all said and
done and you, and you were kindof on, on the other side of it,
like, oh, I see this differentlynow.
Was there any major perceptionchange on your end that that,
that you made note of?
Alyssa (23:18):
I think one thing that I've been struggling with a
little bit is you prettyautomatically change, um, what
you're focused on in thebusiness?
I'm no longer focused on, um,well I still am.
It layers on I guess, but mysole focus is not on the work
and launching the websites and,uh, making sure, you know, no
bugs and all that.
I think what happens with thattransition is sometimes it's
(23:41):
hard to lose or it's, it's easyto lose the perspective of the
team and the employee.
Even though you were just there,you were just in that seat, but
your perspective or your purviewhas changed so much that
sometimes, um, you, it takesmore thought to really determine
like, how, how is this going tobe interpreted by the team?
You know, Those bigger messages,um, that's something that I
(24:04):
didn't expect, honestly.
I thought, uh, from a, you know,moving from that employee to
owner, like, you know, I've beenthere, I've done that.
I know exactly, you know, howthe, how the team will take this
or how people will react, butit's not that easy.
Russel (24:17):
That's really saying something, right?
Like you're saying, someone justnot that far removed from being
exactly in that, in those shoes,that I think it's really even a
wake up for folks that have beenin that owner seat.
You just can't ever get to thepoint where you assume, you
know, and that's a good questionto ask yourself to continually
put yourself in that mindset,'cause if it's hard for you,
it's gotta be doubly hard foranyone else.
(24:39):
You shared earlier thatpartnership, it's got, it's a
lot of pros, right?
Divide and conquer, you know,different skill sets, different
things you can bring to thetable at that kind of owner's
mindset level.
But one of the challenges canalso be with ownership is shared
vision and alignment and, youknow, looking at the long haul
of the business and are we allagree that the gap, the path
we're on is the, the path weneed to be on, on that?
(24:59):
How has that gone for you andwhat do you guys do to, to stay
aligned in,
Alyssa (25:03):
That's a really good question and we haven't hit any
major roadblocks with that.
I'm sure we will in, our tenureas owners, but, um, one of, and
nothing groundbreaking, I don'tthink, but we, we do have a
great network.
We have, um, a couple differentpeer groups that we meet with
that just keep us accountable,help us kind of talk through
those things with, you know,other owners.
(25:25):
And That's always really niceand it just brings up a lot of
conversations that might notcome up during the day to day.
We also meet a lot and we reallytry to keep our bigger
conversations for our in-personmeetings.
We don't try to, you know, solvethings over Slack or email.
We just kind of keep a runninglist.
Obviously if it's a timesensitive matter and we have to
(25:46):
jump on a call and, you know,troubleshoot something, we'll do
that.
But I do think that helps uskeep focused.
And just having, you know, ourstrategy well laid out and kind
of knowing where we're headed.
Obviously there's gonna be smallpivots along the road, but, um,
making sure that we're all onthe same page.
And Honestly, I do feel likethis is something we can
probably do a better job of justmaking sure, like I had up
(26:09):
marketing, my business partnerhas up sales.
just making sure that everythingis constantly in alignment,
which we of course strive for,but sometimes it, it starts to
shift and we need to correct it.
Russel (26:19):
My takeaway from there is, and I think this, this can
happen in all sorts of differentways in an agency, but how we
shouldn't rehash strategy on thefly or anything along those
lines, like you're kind ofsaying through Slack, we wait
till we have these, hey, this isa strategy session.
This is a construct to assessour alignment or our future of
the business.
Not to say there's littleconversation aside, but we
don't, we don't rehash strategyon the fly.
Alyssa (26:40):
Our team is very invested in the strategy too.
Leading up to our state of theagency, our quarterly all team
meetings, we, we definitely, um,we meet quite a bit on strategy
and making sure that we're goingin, you know, um, with a very
cohesive and actionable plan aswell.
Our leadership's involved,involved with that as well.
Russel (26:59):
Speaking of long-term strategy, what does the future
hold?
What does that big vision youguys have for AOR in the future?
Alyssa (27:05):
I wish I could say we have a big vision.
It's hard right now, right?
I think with AI we're, we'rereally at a crossroads, um, just
in an agency, in the agencylandscape, right?
I think there's, um, a lot ofagencies that could fall behind
during this period.
There's a lot of agencies thatcan really thrive and right now
we're just really trying to keepan eye on that and making sure
(27:26):
that, um, we're constantlylearning and staying ahead of
the game when it comes to AI andall the things that, that are
happening,'cause I, I trulybelieve that it is going to
transform how we do business andit's gonna happen faster than,
than we think.
What that big vision is outthere is a little bit
questionable right now because Ido think so much is going to
change in the next couple ofyears.
but.
(27:47):
In general, one of the biggestthings that we really focus on
as an agency is our culture andkeeping that intact.
It's something that has stoodthe test of time from the
original founders to us.
so I wanna make sure thatwhoever takes over this agency
next, um, that culture hasremained and, and we're true to
our roots throughout that.
But honestly, like right now,I'm very focused on the
(28:09):
uncertainty that's happening inthe business climate.
We work with a lot ofmunicipalities and a lot of
local government that is feelingthis very heavily.
We're really just trying tosupport them and figure out what
can we do to help them getthrough this because we know it
will foster our relationship andwe'll be there on the other side
when they get through it.
That's kind of the immediatething that we're focusing on
(28:29):
right now.
Russel (28:30):
In turbulent times, I think that's always the best
question to ask and I don't getto hear as many COVID stories.
A little more removed from, um,COVID, I guess you could say.
But that was the big lessonlearned from so many agencies
that, you know, when, when timeswere tough, who do we serve and
what do they need?
If you focus on that, it'sgonna, it's gonna go well for
you or, or it's not gonna go asbad as it could maybe is another
(28:52):
way to put it.
We can't be in control ofeverything.
You dropped another little hitthere.
You're thinking about the nextgeneration of owners of AOR.
Are you taking the lessons fromyour owner and, and starting to
like, yeah, I think, uh, I thinkJimmy over there might be a good
fit for leadership someday?
How are you looking at that?
Alyssa (29:08):
I'd be lying if I said I don't think about that every
once in a while.
Because that's the model weknow, you know.
Part of the reason the formerowners decided to do an internal
sale is because of that culture,and they wanted to make sure
that AOR was in good hands.
As of right now, I think verymuch in that, in that same vein.
That being said, we're, we're aways out, so I'm trying not to
worry too much, uh, aboutanything.
Russel (29:30):
You're like, damn, Russel.
I'm just a year and a half intothis, stop asking me about, uh,
about selling it all over again.
Alyssa (29:35):
Yeah.
We're in the infancy.
We got a life ahead of us.
Not planning our estate yet.
Russel (29:40):
Fair enough.
All right, well, We'll bring youback for round two, um, when,
when we get further down thatpath.
But, uh, sounds, Sounds likeyou're enjoying it, sounds like
you're, you're staying true tothe roots, sounds like you've,
you've got a good path and goodplan in terms of how you're
going about this.
So, all, all This is gonna gowell.
I'm gonna put that in thefortune cookie right now.
I guess then I got one last bigquestion for you.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Alyssa (30:02):
I've been thinking about this and I, I'm sure this is the
answer you get most of the time.
It's a combination.
Russel (30:07):
I think that would be, There would be more notches in
the combo, um, bed post thanothers.
Alyssa (30:11):
Yes.
I do think that people are bornwith certain traits that, that
definitely make them strongentrepreneurs.
As long as that seed is wateredthroughout their life, I, I
really feel like there's a lotof potential.
Being made, I, I think, justbeing put in positions that, um,
that expose you toentrepreneurship, whether it's,
within your family or your jobsor whatever.
(30:32):
and Expose you to leading,leading a team or a dance troupe
or whatever it is.
Just, getting, getting thatexperience, I think, all ladders
up to being a greatentrepreneur.
I think that the born is true,but also, uh, you gotta water
that seed and nurture it throughfor it to grow.
Russel (30:50):
Pick a ratio like are we, 51/49
Alyssa (30:53):
man, I think, well, I mean, I do think that having
those traits is a big part ofit.
Maybe it's 60/40, having thosetraits and then just making sure
that those traits come alive, Iguess.
Russel (31:04):
All right.
I'll take it.
60/40.
I guess, you know, Another justa little nugget that, um, I
think is important there is thatexposure piece.
You've got to experience this ina different way, but I think
sometimes as owners, we canforget of all the little things
that we learned because we arethe only ones exposed, to it
when we were coming up in thebusiness.
So If we want to have any chanceof someone coming in and filling
our shoes just in the way youhave, that we have to give them
(31:26):
exposure.
If they don't get it, thatyou're never gonna get that,
you're never gonna get yourAlyssa story.
That's a good takeaway forfolks.
Thank you for sharing that.
Well, If people know more aboutAOR, where can they go?
Alyssa (31:36):
Thinkaor.com is our website and that can take you
to, we're pretty active onLinkedIn, um, Instagram.
Either any of those places aregood places to go.
Russel (31:45):
All right.
Head to the socials folks.
Thinkaor.com.
Wonderful conversation today,Alyssa.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share your unique journey.
So many little insights abouthow, how you can build up
leaders within your business.
It's all about having a gameplan.
It's all about building thatrunway, investing in that path,
and if you do, are good thingswill come.
Really appreciate you being theinspiration and taking the time
(32:07):
to share that with us today.
Alyssa (32:08):
Thank you, Russel.
It's been a great conversation.
It's a pleasure, thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(32:31):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
We have our annual client party here at the office,
(32:53):
and typically, you know, we're,we're with clients early in the
evening.
It's more of like a happy, happyhour, cocktail hour, so it's
like four to seven, and thenafterwards it's the team, you
know, just bonding and, uh, goodtime.
Back in the day, we, we used togo pretty late into the night
and it was a good time.
We're all agencies, weunderstand.
Since I feel like with the nextgeneration coming up, we're,
(33:15):
we're a little bit well behaved,but, but one time we had the
party, and at the time I had ababy, and so I was coming in
early and, and ending early.
So I would come in at 6:30, 7:00AM and leave.
So The next day, because I had ababy, I went to bed early, other
people didn't.
I showed up at the office at6:30 in the morning and it was
still dark.
And I noticed that the alarmdidn't go off.
(33:36):
I thought, that's kind of weird.
Someone must have forgotten.
All the doors were locked, soeverything was secure.
It was good.
I'm sitting at my desk and I'mgetting to work and I hear an, a
phone alarm go off and I'm like,ugh, someone left their phone
here.
So I go over to where I hear thephone alarm and our intern at
the time didn't make it homeand, uh, was sleeping under the
desk.
I got to be the one to wake himup and, and help him find his
(33:59):
ride home.
That was kind of a story thatwent, went down in history'cause
um, that was the first time Ihad ever seen that, you know, in
my experiences with our parties.
So That was kinda of funny butalso really alarming, to be
honest, because it was so earlyin the morning and I thought I
was by myself in this bigoffice.
And then, you know, there wassomebody, you know, taking a
snooze 20 feet from me.
Russel (34:17):
For the young folks, are you living your best life if you
haven't slept under your deskafter a company office party?
I just don't know.
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