October 5, 2025 • 43 mins
Company: Norbella
Guest: Stephanie Noris
Year Started: 2009
Employees: 1-10
Running an agency means solving problems every day, but what if one lesson could make most of them easier? In this episode, Stephanie Norris of Norbella shares how mastering tough conversations, focusing on people, and tackling root challenges have shaped her 16-year journey in business.
Key Takeaways
- Why learning to have difficult conversations solves more problems than any process or tool
- The pursuit of happy people and great work
- How focusing on team growth and culture leads to stronger client results
- Why chasing shortcuts often backfires
Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Russel (00:01):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn Business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Stephanie Norris withNorbella with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Stephanie.
Stephanie (00:39):
Thank you, Russell.
I'm very happy to be here.
Russel (00:41):
Happy to have you.
And kick us off right outta thegate.
What does Norbella do and who doyou do it for?
Stephanie (00:48):
Norbella is a full service media agency and we are
in Boston and we work with avariety of clients.
I would say that we're industry,um, agnostic and channel
agnostic as a media agency, butwe do attend to get a lot of
business in the B2B tech space,CPGA bit in retail and quite a
(01:11):
bit in pharma healthcare.
Russel (01:14):
Beautiful.
And Boston.
I have never been to Boston, butfor our fans out there that may
find Boston one kind of a lowkey underground thing that's
like, you gotta do this.
If you go to Boston,
Stephanie (01:25):
I would say if you're.
Sports fan, sports fan, you'vegotta go to a game.
Because we're a huge sportstown.
Um, the restaurant scene hasmoved along nicely.
So even though I work in Boston,I live in Rhode Island much of
the time, and Providence hasalways sort of been the nemesis
in the restaurant scene toBoston.
But Boston's come a long way.
(01:45):
Um, and there's a ton of historyin Boston, so there's lots to do
on the touristy front.
Um, it's a great city.
Russel (01:52):
I've heard this.
I'm a history major myself, soI'm a little disappointed in
myself that I haven't actuallybeen to, um, yeah.
City with such great history inour country.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well, I didn't know there's thislittle rivalry between Boston
and Providence, but good toknow.
We'll have to for some folks outthere.
Yes.
That can.
Make their comparisons.
Stephanie (02:12):
Definitely, if you make your way to Boston, um,
Providence is only an hour away,so you should hit Providence.
Russel (02:17):
Wow.
See, look at this.
Learning geography and historyall the same.
Very cool.
Great start.
Well, I want to hear all thethings you're doing in the
agency soon enough, but beforewe get there, I want to hear how
young Steph came up in theworld.
What was she doing with herlife?
Who did she wanna be when shegrew up?
What did that look like?
Stephanie (02:38):
I don't think that I knew as a young child, I would
say that I was, uh, the blacklamb of my family.
I was, uh, one of four and I wasthe mischievous one for certain.
So I was always looking for anadventure and, uh.
You know, I think from an earlyage got a travel bug, um, where
(02:59):
I got to go, you know, on afirst international trip in high
school.
And from there it was, oh, Ineed to move to New York City.
You know, I need to do this, dothat after college.
And so I think was alwaysseeking something a little bit
different and bigger for myself.
But making my way into theadvertising world, I had a
(03:19):
semester abroad in London andactually part of the curriculum
was seeing about 50 plays overthe course of a semester.
Oh my.
Even though I was in a businessprogram and really not knowing
what the direction was gonna be,but when that happened, I said,
you know, I need to go to NewYork.
I need to, um.
Live in a city that's got lotsof culture and art and maybe
(03:42):
somehow I could bring mybusiness studies to the art
world in some way.
And I ended up actually meetingan agency owner on an Amtrak on
my way to New York for my firstinterview, and he said, come see
my agency.
I'm gonna give you a tour andI'm gonna make you fall in love
with advertising.
Russel (03:59):
Wow.
Yeah.
That's, that's fairly like aprolific moment here, I feel
like, of, uh, on your way to aninterview and, um, and yet
we're, we're setting the coursein, in a different direction
here.
Stephanie (04:10):
Yeah.
So, um, he let me.
Shadow for a day at his agencyand I quickly started to pivot
the direction that I wanted totake.
And um, when I saved up for asummer and moved to New York
without a job, I quickly startedjust looking at agency jobs, not
knowing exactly how I was gonnafall into the world, but ended
(04:32):
up being an admin for a coupleof media guys at Saatchi and
Saatchi.
And they taught me everythingthey knew.
And that was sort of whatpropelled.
My career on the media side of,of the advertising world.
Russel (04:47):
Okay.
I mean, we're already setting apath here, you know, seem, no,
not shy to adventure.
Really appreciate the hustle andbustle and kind of gotta be
where the happening's going on.
So when did the spark comeabout?
Was it younger or later?
You know, we'll eventually setus on this idea of that you
wanted to start your ownbusiness or have your own
agency.
Stephanie (05:06):
Yeah, that part was interesting.
So I was a heads down justworking really hard, uh, media.
In New York.
I wouldn't say expert.
I mean it was my younger years,but learned a really, you know,
strong work ethic in New York.
And after a few years, ended upmoving back closer to home in
Boston and, um.
You know, during the recessionin two, back in 2009, we were
(05:31):
seeing a lot of agenciesstruggle and one of the agency I
was working at was a little bitsmaller and they were starting
to struggle and one of thepeople that I had brought on who
was pretty senior, he was like,I'm just gonna go off on my own.
We were watching our team beprofitable and the rest of the
agency was suffering.
And we just started talkingabout, Hey, do we, do we think
(05:54):
about doing this togetherpotentially?
And, uh, that was what we endedup doing.
I mean, they were havinglayoffs.
It was a really difficult timeand it was a difficult decision
to make, but at the same time,we were seeing there was an
opportunity within our space, inour lane in advertising.
And so.
We spent a weekend doing abusiness plan, a SWOT analysis,
(06:15):
and realizing there was anopportunity there.
Lots of, uh, small to midsizecreative agencies without media
capabilities.
And so that was how we started.
Russel (06:25):
A bit like a business built over a weekend or was it
actually basically,
Stephanie (06:29):
basically then it was just how do go owners and figure
out how separate ourselves, butbe available.
Russel (06:40):
Okay.
Okay.
So you really started off with akind of a white labeled first
approach.
Stephanie (06:44):
Exactly.
Yep.
Russel (06:45):
Okay, okay.
Um, very cool.
Not dissimilar.
I think our business was kindastarted in the same manner of,
it was a Friday idea and Mondaywe were, uh, figuring out how we
could go to businesses and sellwebsites.
So sometimes I think the bestintentions are happen when
they're just spur of the moment.
Stephanie (07:04):
Yeah.
And I guess the only, um,clarifying point that I guess I
should make is I had somerelationships with a couple of
our clients that were media onlyclients, and I had great
relationships with them.
I think I was concerned that Iwould be leaving them in the
dust.
So, you know, took them todinner and they said, well,
we're still gonna need media.
Uh, we're still gonna need help.
So let's talk about how we coulddo this diplomatically and
(07:29):
follow you, um, on your venture.
And so that.
Need starting a business mucheasier knowing that we're gonna
have paying clients the gate.
Russel (07:37):
We all need a little bit of that comfort for them rather
than going straight from zero.
Uh, lucky for me too, at thetime when I started mine, I was
not employed, so it was likenothing to lose.
I definitely encounter folksthat run the gamut from they
need to walk their income.
So it's, they're almost not asingle gap from switching from
the corporate world to startingtheir business to, yeah, people
(07:57):
that just jump off the cliff andthey'll figure it out later and
then obviously everything inbetween.
But what do you remember aboutthe early days?
Like what were you thinking,what were you feeling?
Stephanie (08:06):
There was a lot of excitement.
The way that it ended uphappening is there ended up
being four of us that were amedia department within this
agency, and so.
Pulling the four of us out ofthe agency, and again, did it
all diplomatically.
We found creative ways so thatit didn't actually hurt the
other agency all that much.
(08:26):
And so the relationship stayedvery positive there.
But I was on a war path to justfigure out how I could learn as
much as possible.
I had never run my own company.
Um, I started reaching out toother agency owners, small
agency owners in Boston andtaking them to dinner and just
saying.
Tell me everything you didwrong.
(08:47):
Tell me, tell me where youscrewed up.
Um, tell me what not to do.
And, um, they told me to calmdown and, uh, they were a great
support system and they were sogenerous in their knowledge.
So that was happening, but thenat the same time, it was, you
know, networking with thoseagencies.
And there's a ton of excitementaround having this autonomy.
(09:11):
How do things and to just anenvironment that.
Russel (09:17):
You sound like a very outgoing person.
Just the, the idea of goingaround and interviewing and I
mean, that's smart.
Um, for sure.
Would you say that's indicativeof your personality or is that
more driven by the adrenaline ofrunning a business?
Stephanie (09:31):
Um, I would say I'm an extrovert.
I definitely get energy frompeople.
I have times where I need totake a break.
But yes, I would say that it'sindicative of who I am.
I'm pretty social.
Russel (09:42):
What was the partnership like aspect?
I mean, I know a lot of folkslike it because if you've got
someone to collaborate with, andthen sometimes, right, it, it
can be difficult as you'retrying to set a vision and
establish a path and you've gota, two brains are a little
harder to do that.
And one, how do you describeyour partnership in the early
days?
Stephanie (09:59):
Yeah, so, um, we are no longer partners, but we ended
amicably.
I would say in the early days,yes, there was some give and
take I would say, on everythingthat we wanted to do.
I was the minority owner becauseI had the relationships, um,
with the clients that were gonnabe coming over for one, but also
it was sort of decided that Iwas gonna be the networker
(10:22):
because of how.
You know, operate and deal withpeople, um, as well as some of
the established relationshipsthat I had in the market that I
thought would be beneficial tothe business.
And we both came to an agreementon that.
I would say that, uh.
It was very comforting to havesomebody else in it with you.
I would say all four of us, eventhough the other two weren't
(10:43):
partners, it was just nice tonot be doing it alone.
Um, I would say that anytimethere was something concerning,
we shared in that and anytimesomething was great and
exciting, we shared in that.
And so not just being a solooperator made it a lot easier.
Russel (11:00):
I can totally see that.
How long did the partnershiplast, or when did that
eventually, uh, dissipate?
Stephanie (11:05):
That was probably only three or four years in.
Okay.
And we're coming up on 16 yearsand we're still good friends to
this day.
I think that we started growingrapidly for small agency.
We were hiring regularly and Idon't think he was as
comfortable because again, and Ithink I mentioned this early on,
his goal at first was to go offon his own, but he was
(11:27):
envisioning more of a freelancemodel.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that I was in growthmode, but also had a flame under
my butt.
Like, if I'm not out therehelping us grow, we could be
dying, you know?
And I'm now responsible for.
Number of employees and thatmotivated me to continue staying
out there.
And I think, you know, we sortof came to an agreement that he
(11:49):
wanted something different.
He was getting married and wasmoving out west, but.
Early on it was great.
And again, we're good friendsand our separation was very
amicable.
Russel (11:59):
Always glad to hear a good amicable partnership, goes
separate ways or if, if it's notworking out.
But it sounds like, you know, Ithink one of the most important
things, it seems like when Italk with folks that are in
partnerships is just havingthose open conversations about
what does each side want and howthe business can or can't.
Provide that for each of thepartners in the business and be
(12:21):
willing to take those, thoseleaps or that having those tough
conversations when it's notmapping out.
It sounds like you were able tohave those and that's why you're
still friends and able to talkabout it in, in the way you are
today.
Stephanie (12:33):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, and as much as I do thatit's beyond a full-time job, you
know, and that's not foreverybody.
It's not for every, owning abusiness, running a business is
not for everybody.
It's you have your days andnights where you're up all night
and making really difficultdecisions.
And I think at the end of theday, it ended up being a
(12:53):
lifestyle decision.
So
Russel (12:55):
yeah.
And at what point, and maybe ithas or hasn't happened yet, did
you get to where you're like,you know what?
I think I've got this thingfigured out or a little bit past
that anxiety stage and into, Ithink this whole thing is gonna
be all right.
Stephanie (13:11):
Ooh, that's a good question.
Um, I feel like it's always alittle bit of a rollercoaster
rides, you know?
Um,
Russel (13:19):
for sure.
Stephanie (13:19):
Yeah.
But I think that.
You, well, I'm gonna answer thequestion two different ways.
I hit a point where I think justthrough experience and having
been on the ride for a while,you get used to those valleys
and climbing those hills and theexcitement.
So.
(13:40):
Eventually the emotional side ofit, teeters off of it.
And I think too, that I did hita point where I probably had
made a decent amount of moneyand I just said, I'm, I'm
comfortable.
This is not a lifestyle thing.
I don't think I'm gonna evergonna have to work for somebody
else.
You know?
So that when you hit that pointtoo, that just gives you some
comfort where you're sort oflike, okay, I've done, well, you
(14:01):
know.
I know I'm okay, you know, somaybe my ego will be bruised,
but at the end of the day, I'mgonna be able to afford my home
and my mortgage and feeding mychildren inevitably.
Russel (14:14):
Yeah,
Stephanie (14:14):
definitely.
So,
Russel (14:15):
okay.
Which breeds some othercuriosities on my end.
When you look back at your ownjourney, and it sounds like
you've interacted with andtalked with a lot of agency
owners.
You're basically describing aplace that not a lot of folks
get to or are not there yet,what do you think your secret
sauce was that, you know,allowed you to be successful to
get to that point?
Stephanie (14:34):
Um, I think a lot of it was grit, hard work, and I
look at success different ways.
I think that, you know, learninghow to manage and lead was
something that I succeeded inover time.
I wasn't perfect at it early onbecause I was a stress case
early on.
Success in, in.
Reputation and knowing that, youknow, there are a lot of people
(14:57):
out there in the market that hadgood things to say about us.
And when that starts coming backto you, it's so fulfilling and
it gives you a new sense ofconfidence that you know, you
can kind of keep marchingforward and continuing to try to
grow and evolve and challengeyourself and challenge your
team.
If that answers the question acouple of ways.
Russel (15:16):
No secret to the secret or no, right or wrong to the
secret sauce.
Okay.
No secret to the secret sauce.
Um, you know, and, and I thinkthat is an often key indicator
is for folks, and I don't knowwhere the chip is always, but
when the focus is a lot more onproviding just exceptional
results, and even if thebusiness is a little chaotic and
(15:38):
a little stressful around theperipheral, then I think some
folks are able to kind of putthat aside because job number
one is.
Doing massive success for theclients.
And if you can start to workthrough that and figure that
out, then it seems like it, ittends to work out well for
agencies on the backside.
Stephanie (15:55):
I think there were years where I was actually more
focused on the success of ourteam because I think that when I
didn't focus on the numbers myhusband used to say to me.
You don't even know yourfinancial.
Russel (16:08):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (16:08):
Because I was so focused on our team being the
best they could be and beinghappy because when those two
things happened, it just flowedinto how we were working with
our clients.
And so I just think that bothare equally important because I
see a lot of environments, I seea lot of agencies that are quote
unquote successful, but youknow, they've got a track record
(16:30):
of burning people out or nottreating people well.
And so.
You wanna be able to bring thetwo together.
And I think that I learned thoselessons over the years.
I don't think I was perfect atany of it.
I think we're always good atdoing good service, but um, you
know, you gotta work on theinternal stuff too.
Russel (16:47):
Yeah, for sure.
The theme there, I'm, I'mhearing you say, is happy people
do great work.
A big believer in that itself,especially in the creative
strategic space.
We, we need our people to be, wefire in all cylinders to do the
best work.
And I mean, as you shared, it'snot something that can happen
overnight.
It's not an easy process tolearn.
(17:08):
Is there anything you can thinkback of that, you know, really
helped you facilitate or reallycreate that environment of happy
people?
Stephanie (17:16):
Yeah, I think, um.
We had little task forces and westill do, but we were always
trying to get creative about howto come together and have fun
for one.
But I think too, just showingpeople that we were investing in
them, whether it was how we wereteaching them or exposing them
through conferences or whateverit might be, they felt that
(17:39):
investment and they, I thinkthey were appreciative of it.
And I'm not gonna say for 16years, we always had happy
people.
That was not the case.
You know, we learned somelessons along the way, but I
think that we've done a lot,even from a benefit perspective,
um, as well.
And just making sure that we'regiving people the flexibility.
Post COVID obviously flipped alot of companies on their heads
(18:02):
and how they work, and so.
I had to get over my old schoolmentality of, you know, we have
to get back to the office.
And I let that go and I was moreabout, are we doing good work?
Are people happy?
And that continued to happen.
And so I've, I've got us to apoint where people are coming
in, we're encouraging them acouple of days a week, and.
(18:24):
You know, there are days thatpeople just can't come in for
whatever reason, for personalreason.
We're okay with it.
We do a lot of things likecollege tuition reimbursement
and unlimited vacation.
Just lots of things that allowpeople flexibility or help them
in their lives, and I think thatultimately that's what people
appreciate too.
Russel (18:42):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'm, as you're sharingthis, I, I'm just pictured in
this head of, maybe one of themore important things,
especially once you get someteam members within your agency
is, is this teeter-totter of,are we doing good work and are
people happy?
And if we can keep thatbalanced, um, generally things
should be running pretty smooth,but no different than maybe you
(19:02):
said some agencies out therethat might tip the scale to.
Pushing for the work side, butit pushes the happy people out
of balance.
Or, uh, I've seen environmentswhere the people are probably a
little too happy and takingtheir eye off the ball of the
work.
So that is just a constanttension that we're trying to
balance here in the, in theagency space.
Stephanie (19:20):
Yeah, I do, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Russel (19:24):
I mean, obviously, you know, You talk about learning
and nobody gets this thingperfect.
It's just too complicated of abusiness to be in, when,
especially when we bring in thefactor of all things people.
Where do you feel like.
You just as an individual, as aperson, where did you get your
knowledge from?
Was it just on the job or werethere resources out there that
you found more extremely helpfulor things you participated in?
(19:46):
Where were you helping guideyour own professional and
personal development as you'regrowing your agency?
I.
Stephanie (19:51):
Um, well, so through in the earlier years, I was
still focused on media andobviously my job changed and
evolved, I would say everycouple of years where I took on
responsibility shifted and itcontinues to, actually this year
I'm spending differently than Ihave in the past.
Um, so early on.
I would say that again, it wastalking to other agencies,
(20:12):
learning how to collaborate withthem.
It was a different way ofworking than what I had before
where I had always been in fullservice agencies, but then as a
leader and a manager.
I leaned in a lot to yes,conversations with people.
Thinking back on what I enjoyedor didn't enjoy with my previous
managers, as well as reading alot.
(20:33):
Um, I don't do it as much as Iused to, but business books,
leadership books, managementbooks.
Harvard Business Reviewarticles.
Oh yes.
Russel (20:44):
Get old Harvard Business.
Yeah,
Stephanie (20:45):
those are good.
Quick five, 10 minute reads, andyou can share them with people.
And so we would do a lot ofthings too, like we started
doing, and we still do themprobably only about once a year
now, but we do executiveoffsites where we learn and
share from each other, and wereally dig in on how the
company's doing and how we'reworking together.
And we all learn from that.
(21:06):
When you have that much timewith people, you are really
gonna be able to see into thedetails of what's going on at
your company.
And so we continue to make surewe're spending the appropriate
amount of time talking about notjust what's happening in the day
to day, but the bigger picture.
Russel (21:21):
What's your favorite, like if you had to think of
like, Hey, this, this bookreally shaped my thoughts on
business or as a leader.
What's that book for you?
Hmm.
Stephanie (21:30):
Um, there's a few one that I'm thinking of because I
just mentioned the offsites.
Um, it, it's kind of hokey.
It's called the FiveDysfunctions of a Team.
Russel (21:43):
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Stephanie (21:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good one.
And it, I feel like it reallytaught us how to communicate and
hold each other accountable andlots of other things.
So we all read it and would havediscussions around it.
And then, starting with Why bySimon Sinek is Oh yes.
Is definitely one, um, daring tolead by Brene Brown are probably
the ones that pop into my head.
(22:05):
And then, like I said, again,those HBR.
Are always invaluable.
Um.
So I don't do it as much.
Oh, there was a book by, um, theCEO of Zappos when Zappos was a
really big deal back in the day.
Russel (22:19):
Oh.
Uh, guide to Happiness orsomething.
Yeah.
Delivering Happiness.
Delivering Happiness.
Stephanie (22:22):
That was a great one.
Yeah.
Yes.
Um, for both internal andexternal and customer service
and all of that.
That was another one that Ithink I bought.
So I would buy these books forthe agency, you know,
encouraging people to read, notholding them to it.
But, um, anything I was excitedabout there, I would always
share with everyone.
Russel (22:39):
All great books.
I haven't read The Daring toLead by Brene Brown, but, uh, I
hear so much about her and seeso much of her other content.
I feel like I need to get thatone on the list.
Stephanie (22:48):
Yeah, she's great.
She's great.
Russel (22:50):
I love five dysfunctions of a team.
I mean, it proves that not allbooks have to be drawn out and
heavily research driven, right?
It can be just a little fable, Ithink is how it refers to itself
of some stories about someimportant concepts in business.
And, it just speaks to us at amore simpler level, but doesn't
lessen the impact by any means.
Stephanie (23:08):
Absolutely.
Like I said, it's a little hokeyin the Fable format, but, uh, so
you can giggle through it, butat the same time, big lessons to
be learned.
Russel (23:17):
Yeah, I'm curious your thought, I mean, right.
You hear it so much in theworld, right?
You know that a lot of, youknow, successful people say how
important reading is.
Um, and I, I never quite knowmyself.
Is that a causality or acorrelation?
Right?
You know, do people that tend toread a lot, do they do something
else that actually gives themmore successful traits?
(23:39):
Or is it the actual knowledgegained and learned from reading?
What are your thoughts there?
Stephanie (23:46):
I think it's probably the knowledge gained from
learning.
I, you know, it definitelythrough that reading with each
book or each article, it wouldopen my eyes to something and it
would allow me to at least testsomething out.
The way that I'm managing orcommunicating, you know, I would
say I don't have a lot ofsuperpowers, but one of my
(24:06):
superpowers that I learned, andI actually love coaching people,
is on difficult conversations.
I can have any difficult, I canhave a difficult conversation
with virtually anybody, and it'snot an easy thing.
It's like flexing a muscle.
You have to work that muscle andlearn how to gain the confidence
to get your points across andcommunicate, and that was
definitely something that Ilearned.
(24:27):
Through reading and testing andtrying and practicing, and have
I mastered it?
Not necessarily, but I feelpretty confident in that area.
Russel (24:38):
Oh, now, now, now this is getting into some juicy stuff
from what I'm concerned.
Um, just because the idea of, Iread and, uh, I guess rest of
the world might not think thisis juicy, but I really love
simple solutions or solutionsthat solve a lot of other
problems.
So something just like that,like you're saying, like if I
can just learn to have.
Difficult conversations and getgood at that.
(25:00):
How many problems does thatsolve?
All right.
That solves teams problems.
That solves problems withclients, that that solves sales
problems, solves marriage
Stephanie (25:07):
problems.
It's about, you know, too, yeah,it's about good communication
and direct honest communicationand learning how to sandwich the
tough stuff with softer stuff sothat people receive the message
well.
You know, I don't know if Iwould call it an art, but it's
something that needs to bepracticed and thought through
(25:27):
for
Russel (25:27):
sure.
I would absolutely call it, Iwould call it an art.
I think it's an an art form and,and to the point it covers every
facet of life really.
Even if you get your fast foodorder messed up at McDonald's,
it helps you navigate thatsituation.
Stephanie (25:41):
Right?
Yeah.
Russel (25:43):
Yeah.
We took a similar approach and Iguess a somewhat similar
concept.
Um, so we were sitting aroundone day.
And the designers were, youknow, designers in an agency
always seemed to struggle withthis idea of how they get
feedback and what they have todo with it and how they
interpret it.
So our designers were wanting tocreate this really intricate, I
(26:03):
would say, feedback process sothat they could corral this of
feedback we were getting and,and took a step back and looked
and said, I think we're goingtoo far with this.
What if we just got good at theart of feedback.
We wouldn't have to create allthis process and infrastructure
around it.
And so we went down that pathand we actually really adopted,
I dunno if you've read RadicalCandor, um, but we adopted that.
(26:25):
Kind of framework and processand started doing a lot of
training, reading anddiscussions around that, and as
to be a foundational layer tosolve a lot of things in our
business.
Stephanie (26:35):
I am familiar with radical candor, and it's
actually one of the things thatwe talked about a lot.
I know you're saying Reddit, butwasn't there also a video on it?
I don't remember.
Oh,
Russel (26:44):
I'm sure there is.
I, yeah.
I feel like everybody makes thatthere's like a 10 minute, um,
overview video.
Not different than the Power ofWhy by Simon Sinek that tell
folks if you don't wanna readthe book, go watch the 10 minute
talk at least.
Stephanie (26:55):
Yeah.
Um, it was a bunch of yearsback, but it was definitely
something that we talked about.
And I agree with you and youknow, it's funny too, not to
stereotype, but with differenttypes of roles.
Creatives.
They're known for not takingfeedback well, because it's
their art, it's their craft.
It's coming from their passion.
You know?
It's not like a lot of what wedeal with, which is maybe
(27:16):
numbers, so we could critiquebased on facts in some cases.
Obviously when we're talkingmanagement, we're talking about
something completely different.
But I would say that that musthave been tricky for you, trying
to navigate feedback to creativeminded people.
Um, from my experience there,they take it pretty personally.
Russel (27:35):
Yeah.
And this notion, right, and Iget this side of it's the part
of, you know, for us in webdevelopment, but it's the most
visual part.
So it's the most.
Attribute that everyone doesfeel like they can speak to and
comment to.
So they probably do tend to getmore feedback than nobody's
commenting necessarily on thebackend code as much or anything
along those lines.
I think what really to the pointof what you're saying just as
(27:58):
much is, is important in the artof giving good feedback at the
art of receiving feedback.
Well, and one of the big thingsthat we focused on was that
feedback is never.
Statements.
It is always a collaboration anda conversation.
So you might hear a thing andrather than react to the
statement, right, it's your alsoyour job to interpret what you
(28:18):
heard and or, and repeat thatback to the person and either or
reframe or ask some questionsaround what they're hearing,
right?
Not just, not just assume thatthe feedback is what the
feedback is, but again, yeah,make the process more
collaborative.
So I just think that thatthought process and going down
that path and just learningdifferent ways we can do that.
Never got perfect, as you'vesaid before, but, uh, certainly
(28:40):
helped people along that path.
Stephanie (28:42):
Yeah, I love that.
And, uh, again, it comes down togood communication.
And the other thing I would sayis one thing I had to learn over
the years was how to respond andnot react.
Russel (28:52):
Um mm.
Mm-hmm.
Because
Stephanie (28:54):
I definitely, I can be fiery and I've grown a lot in
that way, but I, that wasdefinitely one of my flaws early
on.
Was overreacting probably,rather than taking a deep breath
and responding.
Russel (29:08):
Yeah.
Well I have no doubt that comeswith some life maturity.
You know, again, I do think thisis a business that if we are
doing great work, people areputting themselves out there and
it certainly creates more of anenvironment where we're gonna
have some feelings and somereactions.
But I think that is alsoimportant to create great work,
is to push the boundaries.
You gotta, as you shared, bewilling to have some hard
(29:29):
conversations.
Right.
Stephanie (29:31):
Exactly.
Russel (29:32):
Well that was a path.
Didn't know we'd go down, butthat was a pretty fun part of
the conversation.
Something you shared earlierthat I think is a pretty
critical, I want you say,components in the agency owner's
journey is getting a grasp onfinances.
And I can't remember where yousaid you got to in that part of
your journey, but at some pointthat's a obstacle that has to be
(29:54):
overcome or at least tackled.
Have you tackled that?
And what did that look like foryou?
Stephanie (29:59):
I've tackled it from a high level perspective.
I'm very fortunate in that whenwe started the agency, I had a
friend of a friend as apart-time CFO, and with media,
there's so much processed from abilling perspective that we
ultimately ended up needingsomeone full-time because we're
processing hundreds of bills amonth.
(30:21):
Um, and then.
He just is a great guy that hadtons of business acumen and has
worn many different hats workingfor small companies, not
agencies in the past.
So that was new for him, but heunderstood technology, he
understood it stuff.
He understood HR stuff.
So he had worn many hats beforeand that was very beneficial.
(30:41):
So it was an easy decision tobring him on.
So he led the way.
My husband definitely was alwayspoking his nose and things back
in the day, and so I know enoughto be dangerous now, but it's
not something that I stillobsess over.
It's something that I keep aneye on and I know where we
always are without.
(31:02):
Digging deeply into the numbersand analyzing the numbers weekly
or monthly.
Russel (31:07):
Okay.
And that makes sense.
I mean, I guess, right.
Just by the nature of the typeof agency you are, you had to
have an in-house financialguidance in some capacity almost
from the get go, which I think alot of other agencies in other
realms, when they start out,they, don't have a lot of
transactions, invoicing, orexpenses that are otherwise.
And so there isn't that need.
But that sounds like that was.
(31:28):
Serendipitously beneficial partof just having that resource and
guidance almost from the get go.
Stephanie (31:33):
Yeah, very, very lucky to have him.
He's, I consider him a righthand man in business.
There isn't much that I don'trun by him, and he understands
our industry really, really wellnow.
So he's an asset.
Russel (31:46):
So yeah, find somebody that knows numbers really,
really well, that they can helpyou along that journey or yeah,
guide you through that process.
Well, such a great conversationso far.
I'm just curious in how you'relooking at the future of the
agency.
What is the next, I think yousaid 16 years.
What does the next 16 years looklike?
How, how do you fit into thatpicture?
Stephanie (32:09):
I don't think it's gonna be 16 years.
I'm 54.
I've been doing this a longtime, so I'm loving where we
are.
We we're a well-oiled machine.
My job now is most.
How do we get word out thereabout us?
How do we forge newpartnerships, networking,
conferences, and poking my headin with clients.
(32:29):
But my team is so great aboutkeeping our clients happy.
So aside from me doing thesemini, I don't even wanna call
them report cards, butcheck-ins.
I'm not involved in the day today.
The one thing that we're.
Obsessing over a bit right nowis everything ai, like everybody
else is.
So we're making sure that we'rekeeping an eye on everything
(32:51):
that's emerging when it comes toadvertising and media, how we
can be using the tools,assessing the tools.
Anything new that's coming out,it's gonna be interesting
because I think a lot of thingswill shake out, but how is it
ultimately going to help us dobetter work for our clients?
I don't wanna just look at it asan efficiency tool.
(33:12):
I want us to be able to getsmarter from it.
And so that's an area that we'refocused on a lot I shared with
you, which is going to be, Idon't know when this is gonna be
published, but.
One of my very senior peoplethat has been with me for a long
time is gonna be leaving at theend of the summer.
With that brings opportunity,um, for other people.
(33:33):
So I've got some folks that areamazing, a couple that I'm
elevating that will becontributing to filling his
shoes.
So it's not a role that I feellike we need to replace.
Instead, it's openingopportunities for other people
as a smaller agency.
That is one challenge sometimesis sort of like, how are people
(33:54):
gonna grow?
Where are they gonna go?
Russel (33:56):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (33:56):
In some cases, as you know, it requires people leaving
and so it's that departure.
But that is one thing that I'mfocused on now is how are we
covering all of our tracksthere?
How are we making sure the workis being distributed the right
way?
How are we making sure thatwe're checking all of the boxes
and that nothing is being missedand that we're only gonna be
better coming out of thischange?
So.
(34:17):
That's kind of all of the shortterm stuff.
As far as the long term goes.
You know, I, I wanna be a littlebit better known in other
markets.
I'd like to continue forgingnew, uh, relationships and
partnerships.
So again, as I said, that's oneof the things that I'm doing is
just getting out there andmeeting a lot of people, um,
(34:37):
which is something I love to do.
So it certainly isn't anything Ican complain about.
I've been doing it the last sixmonths.
I'm ready for a little vacay,but I'll be ready to get back to
it again in the fall.
Um, and.
How long will I be at it?
It's difficult to say.
I've got a couple girls incollege.
Um, I'm starting to think aboutwhat might be next for me, and
(34:59):
so I don't know if I will mapout in the next few years a
successor situation or anacquisition or something, but
it's something that I need tothink about and keep an open
mind to.
I've been doing this a long timeand I wanna see what's next for
me too down the road.
So, entertaining lots ofdifferent things.
Russel (35:19):
Yeah.
I mean, clearly you're kind ofin a.
I don't think I'd say the wordat a crossroads here, but you're
at a, you're at a precipice inthe business where it sounds
like you're doing the thingsthat really cater to your
strengths and talents, and thebusiness doesn't need you in the
day-to-day grind, and in aperfect place to just kind of
ask yourself, really start tofill in those gaps of maybe what
the future looks like.
But we don't have to know thistomorrow.
(35:41):
It can certainly be an expert orpath, but I just wanna say
congratulations to be whereyou're at in this.
Imagine it's.
I don't even know the words isjust, uh, very comforting.
I guess we'll just go back tothe word comforting.
Stephanie (35:55):
Yeah.
That, and there's a lot ofreflection, especially when you
have a change, like what we'regoing through now.
It's, I don't wanna say it feelslike the end of an era, but
having some of the originals.
Leave feels different for me.
It's an emotional thing that I'mgoing through for sure.
You know?
Yeah.
And it sort of forces you tothink about what's next for you
too, when somebody else ismoving on.
(36:18):
So,
Russel (36:18):
yeah, that is true.
And it's a season,
Stephanie (36:21):
yeah.
Russel (36:21):
Not an era, but a, a season season.
Stephanie (36:24):
I like, I like that.
Russel (36:25):
I always did, appreciate that.
It's devastating.
It sometimes felt when a longtime team member was leaving.
It's, it's exactly what you saidof it was also neat to see the
people step up and that.
Right.
You know, sometimes a verysenior person cast a bigger
shadow.
People just rely on them to docertain things and then you see
where other people can Yeah.
(36:46):
Step up and bloom and, andthat's a fun thing to watch as
well.
Stephanie (36:49):
Oh, definitely.
As much as it's bittersweet,there's a little bit of sadness
there.
People are jazzed about what'snext for them.
They're psyched, you know, tohave opportunities to lead.
They're psyched to haveopportunities, to have more
responsibility.
And I feel like it, um,actually, you know, re-energizes
the agency.
Russel (37:10):
A new, new opportunity for innovation and as you were
sharing there earlier, AI andYeah, certainly the hot topic
and all things agency now.
Yeah.
Um, but we and my wife werehaving conversation other night
over wine and the debate was,does AI make us smarter?
Does it make us more stupid?
And I think both, well, I mean,right.
It's, I think it's my personaltake.
(37:31):
You can share what you think is,is exactly what smart people are
using to make themselves smarterand people that.
I won't say aren't smart, butpeople that aren't using it in
that way probably are using itas almost a handicap or a crutch
in a unhealthy way, I guess youcould say.
Stephanie (37:46):
Yeah.
And I don't wanna call thosepeople out as being lazy, but
yeah, there's a lot to belearned there.
It's in a really exciting time.
It's a little scary at times,you know, there's some
uncertainty that comes with it,but there's also opportunity
that comes with it.
Russel (38:05):
I tend to be in the camp.
It's another evolutionary tool,not necessarily different than
the website internet.
And once everything settles downabout it, we'll adapt to it and
we'll figure out how to best useit or not.
Best use it to, uh, just like wehave you done with the internet.
Well.
Thank you so much for being sotransparent in your story.
I'll ask you one last bigquestion, are entrepreneurs born
(38:27):
or are they made?
Stephanie (38:30):
Oh, I think, can I say both?
Can I say both and explain why
Russel (38:33):
this one, this one time?
No, uh, most people say
Stephanie (38:36):
both.
Um, you know, I think the skillsof an entrepreneur.
Some of it is born.
Like I said, I've always lookedat myself as a little more
adventurous and a risk taker.
I don't know that everybody hasthat in them.
I'm a little competitive, I'm alittle resilient and I think
(38:57):
that some of those things you'rejust.
Born with potentially.
But some things have to belearned like, and I would say
there's a gray area withleadership, right?
Like I admitted I might have hadsome of that in me innately, but
I also needed to learn some ofit.
You know, networking isn'tsomething I don't think that you
are.
Born to network and it's, Idon't think that that's
(39:17):
necessarily innate.
Maybe it is a little bit, but Ithink it's a little bit of a
skill too.
Problem solving, things likethat.
There's some things have to belearned and practiced and those
muscles that you flex and somethings you're probably born with
and made to do, so.
Russel (39:32):
Great answer.
Thanks.
Love it.
I'm gonna just sum that up tosay, you can have some raw
traits here and there, butultimately, if you're gonna make
good use of them, that they'vegotta be polished, you've gotta
add onto them, you've gottalearn, and then ultimately, who
cares if they're born or made atthat point,
Stephanie (39:48):
right?
Yeah, I like that.
That was a much more concise wayto say what I said.
Russel (39:52):
Hey, 50% of my job is just summarizing what folks say
and, repeating it back to them.
So there is a trait I've had topolish in my realm.
Well,
Stephanie (40:00):
you're good at it.
You're good.
Russel (40:02):
Well, thank you.
Alright, well if you wanna knowmore about Nor Bella, where can
they go?
Stephanie (40:07):
You can go to nobel.com, which is
N-O-R-B-E-L-L-A, do com.
The other place I would look tofind sort of what's going on,
real time.
We're posting pretty frequentlyon LinkedIn about what we've got
going on, where I am, where I'mtraveling or, or things going on
at the agency.
Russel (40:25):
Alright, well if I'm not following you already, I'll have
to make sure I'm payingattention to all those travels.
But once again, thank you somuch Steph, for sharing so many
wonderful parts of your journeyso far and really just walking
away with the power of learningand bringing on new skills and,
and all these subar I would saywhen you're thinking about, uh,
everything you have to learn andknow and, and just making that a
(40:46):
continuous journey and reallyappreciate you taking the time
to share all your wonderfulinsights with us today.
Stephanie (40:51):
Thanks so much.
I really enjoyed theconversation.
Russel (40:54):
Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Stephanie (41:16):
I used to write goofy poems and send them out to the
agency.
If something happened, I wouldwrite a poem about it.
Like I had this girl that wasreally mad that somebody drank
her milk, and so I wrote a poemthat started whole milk.
1%, 2%.
(41:37):
Something, whatever.
But anyway, I don't know thatI'm giving the story justice,
but I used to take funny littlethings that happened in the
agency, write poems about themand send them off.
Russel (41:48):
That's amazing.
That is so cool.
Um, I mean, how did you evencome up with the idea for that?
Stephanie (41:56):
I think just maybe when there's a frustrating
situation or a funny situation,like just trying to bring it
back to humor and not take itall so seriously to give people
a giggle, you know?
I don't know.
Russel (42:09):
Yes.
I need a copy of one of thesepoems.
I
Stephanie (42:12):
will.
I will send you one.
I will send you one.
I absolutely will.
Russel (42:17):
That'll be great.
Gotta dig it
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn Business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Stephanie Norris withNorbella with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Stephanie.
Stephanie (00:39):
Thank you, Russell.
I'm very happy to be here.
Russel (00:41):
Happy to have you.
And kick us off right outta thegate.
What does Norbella do and who doyou do it for?
Stephanie (00:48):
Norbella is a full service media agency and we are
in Boston and we work with avariety of clients.
I would say that we're industry,um, agnostic and channel
agnostic as a media agency, butwe do attend to get a lot of
business in the B2B tech space,CPGA bit in retail and quite a
(01:11):
bit in pharma healthcare.
Russel (01:14):
Beautiful.
And Boston.
I have never been to Boston, butfor our fans out there that may
find Boston one kind of a lowkey underground thing that's
like, you gotta do this.
If you go to Boston,
Stephanie (01:25):
I would say if you're.
Sports fan, sports fan, you'vegotta go to a game.
Because we're a huge sportstown.
Um, the restaurant scene hasmoved along nicely.
So even though I work in Boston,I live in Rhode Island much of
the time, and Providence hasalways sort of been the nemesis
in the restaurant scene toBoston.
But Boston's come a long way.
(01:45):
Um, and there's a ton of historyin Boston, so there's lots to do
on the touristy front.
Um, it's a great city.
Russel (01:52):
I've heard this.
I'm a history major myself, soI'm a little disappointed in
myself that I haven't actuallybeen to, um, yeah.
City with such great history inour country.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well, I didn't know there's thislittle rivalry between Boston
and Providence, but good toknow.
We'll have to for some folks outthere.
Yes.
That can.
Make their comparisons.
Stephanie (02:12):
Definitely, if you make your way to Boston, um,
Providence is only an hour away,so you should hit Providence.
Russel (02:17):
Wow.
See, look at this.
Learning geography and historyall the same.
Very cool.
Great start.
Well, I want to hear all thethings you're doing in the
agency soon enough, but beforewe get there, I want to hear how
young Steph came up in theworld.
What was she doing with herlife?
Who did she wanna be when shegrew up?
What did that look like?
Stephanie (02:38):
I don't think that I knew as a young child, I would
say that I was, uh, the blacklamb of my family.
I was, uh, one of four and I wasthe mischievous one for certain.
So I was always looking for anadventure and, uh.
You know, I think from an earlyage got a travel bug, um, where
(02:59):
I got to go, you know, on afirst international trip in high
school.
And from there it was, oh, Ineed to move to New York City.
You know, I need to do this, dothat after college.
And so I think was alwaysseeking something a little bit
different and bigger for myself.
But making my way into theadvertising world, I had a
(03:19):
semester abroad in London andactually part of the curriculum
was seeing about 50 plays overthe course of a semester.
Oh my.
Even though I was in a businessprogram and really not knowing
what the direction was gonna be,but when that happened, I said,
you know, I need to go to NewYork.
I need to, um.
Live in a city that's got lotsof culture and art and maybe
(03:42):
somehow I could bring mybusiness studies to the art
world in some way.
And I ended up actually meetingan agency owner on an Amtrak on
my way to New York for my firstinterview, and he said, come see
my agency.
I'm gonna give you a tour andI'm gonna make you fall in love
with advertising.
Russel (03:59):
Wow.
Yeah.
That's, that's fairly like aprolific moment here, I feel
like, of, uh, on your way to aninterview and, um, and yet
we're, we're setting the coursein, in a different direction
here.
Stephanie (04:10):
Yeah.
So, um, he let me.
Shadow for a day at his agencyand I quickly started to pivot
the direction that I wanted totake.
And um, when I saved up for asummer and moved to New York
without a job, I quickly startedjust looking at agency jobs, not
knowing exactly how I was gonnafall into the world, but ended
(04:32):
up being an admin for a coupleof media guys at Saatchi and
Saatchi.
And they taught me everythingthey knew.
And that was sort of whatpropelled.
My career on the media side of,of the advertising world.
Russel (04:47):
Okay.
I mean, we're already setting apath here, you know, seem, no,
not shy to adventure.
Really appreciate the hustle andbustle and kind of gotta be
where the happening's going on.
So when did the spark comeabout?
Was it younger or later?
You know, we'll eventually setus on this idea of that you
wanted to start your ownbusiness or have your own
agency.
Stephanie (05:06):
Yeah, that part was interesting.
So I was a heads down justworking really hard, uh, media.
In New York.
I wouldn't say expert.
I mean it was my younger years,but learned a really, you know,
strong work ethic in New York.
And after a few years, ended upmoving back closer to home in
Boston and, um.
You know, during the recessionin two, back in 2009, we were
(05:31):
seeing a lot of agenciesstruggle and one of the agency I
was working at was a little bitsmaller and they were starting
to struggle and one of thepeople that I had brought on who
was pretty senior, he was like,I'm just gonna go off on my own.
We were watching our team beprofitable and the rest of the
agency was suffering.
And we just started talkingabout, Hey, do we, do we think
(05:54):
about doing this togetherpotentially?
And, uh, that was what we endedup doing.
I mean, they were havinglayoffs.
It was a really difficult timeand it was a difficult decision
to make, but at the same time,we were seeing there was an
opportunity within our space, inour lane in advertising.
And so.
We spent a weekend doing abusiness plan, a SWOT analysis,
(06:15):
and realizing there was anopportunity there.
Lots of, uh, small to midsizecreative agencies without media
capabilities.
And so that was how we started.
Russel (06:25):
A bit like a business built over a weekend or was it
actually basically,
Stephanie (06:29):
basically then it was just how do go owners and figure
out how separate ourselves, butbe available.
Russel (06:40):
Okay.
Okay.
So you really started off with akind of a white labeled first
approach.
Stephanie (06:44):
Exactly.
Yep.
Russel (06:45):
Okay, okay.
Um, very cool.
Not dissimilar.
I think our business was kindastarted in the same manner of,
it was a Friday idea and Mondaywe were, uh, figuring out how we
could go to businesses and sellwebsites.
So sometimes I think the bestintentions are happen when
they're just spur of the moment.
Stephanie (07:04):
Yeah.
And I guess the only, um,clarifying point that I guess I
should make is I had somerelationships with a couple of
our clients that were media onlyclients, and I had great
relationships with them.
I think I was concerned that Iwould be leaving them in the
dust.
So, you know, took them todinner and they said, well,
we're still gonna need media.
Uh, we're still gonna need help.
So let's talk about how we coulddo this diplomatically and
(07:29):
follow you, um, on your venture.
And so that.
Need starting a business mucheasier knowing that we're gonna
have paying clients the gate.
Russel (07:37):
We all need a little bit of that comfort for them rather
than going straight from zero.
Uh, lucky for me too, at thetime when I started mine, I was
not employed, so it was likenothing to lose.
I definitely encounter folksthat run the gamut from they
need to walk their income.
So it's, they're almost not asingle gap from switching from
the corporate world to startingtheir business to, yeah, people
(07:57):
that just jump off the cliff andthey'll figure it out later and
then obviously everything inbetween.
But what do you remember aboutthe early days?
Like what were you thinking,what were you feeling?
Stephanie (08:06):
There was a lot of excitement.
The way that it ended uphappening is there ended up
being four of us that were amedia department within this
agency, and so.
Pulling the four of us out ofthe agency, and again, did it
all diplomatically.
We found creative ways so thatit didn't actually hurt the
other agency all that much.
(08:26):
And so the relationship stayedvery positive there.
But I was on a war path to justfigure out how I could learn as
much as possible.
I had never run my own company.
Um, I started reaching out toother agency owners, small
agency owners in Boston andtaking them to dinner and just
saying.
Tell me everything you didwrong.
(08:47):
Tell me, tell me where youscrewed up.
Um, tell me what not to do.
And, um, they told me to calmdown and, uh, they were a great
support system and they were sogenerous in their knowledge.
So that was happening, but thenat the same time, it was, you
know, networking with thoseagencies.
And there's a ton of excitementaround having this autonomy.
(09:11):
How do things and to just anenvironment that.
Russel (09:17):
You sound like a very outgoing person.
Just the, the idea of goingaround and interviewing and I
mean, that's smart.
Um, for sure.
Would you say that's indicativeof your personality or is that
more driven by the adrenaline ofrunning a business?
Stephanie (09:31):
Um, I would say I'm an extrovert.
I definitely get energy frompeople.
I have times where I need totake a break.
But yes, I would say that it'sindicative of who I am.
I'm pretty social.
Russel (09:42):
What was the partnership like aspect?
I mean, I know a lot of folkslike it because if you've got
someone to collaborate with, andthen sometimes, right, it, it
can be difficult as you'retrying to set a vision and
establish a path and you've gota, two brains are a little
harder to do that.
And one, how do you describeyour partnership in the early
days?
Stephanie (09:59):
Yeah, so, um, we are no longer partners, but we ended
amicably.
I would say in the early days,yes, there was some give and
take I would say, on everythingthat we wanted to do.
I was the minority owner becauseI had the relationships, um,
with the clients that were gonnabe coming over for one, but also
it was sort of decided that Iwas gonna be the networker
(10:22):
because of how.
You know, operate and deal withpeople, um, as well as some of
the established relationshipsthat I had in the market that I
thought would be beneficial tothe business.
And we both came to an agreementon that.
I would say that, uh.
It was very comforting to havesomebody else in it with you.
I would say all four of us, eventhough the other two weren't
(10:43):
partners, it was just nice tonot be doing it alone.
Um, I would say that anytimethere was something concerning,
we shared in that and anytimesomething was great and
exciting, we shared in that.
And so not just being a solooperator made it a lot easier.
Russel (11:00):
I can totally see that.
How long did the partnershiplast, or when did that
eventually, uh, dissipate?
Stephanie (11:05):
That was probably only three or four years in.
Okay.
And we're coming up on 16 yearsand we're still good friends to
this day.
I think that we started growingrapidly for small agency.
We were hiring regularly and Idon't think he was as
comfortable because again, and Ithink I mentioned this early on,
his goal at first was to go offon his own, but he was
(11:27):
envisioning more of a freelancemodel.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that I was in growthmode, but also had a flame under
my butt.
Like, if I'm not out therehelping us grow, we could be
dying, you know?
And I'm now responsible for.
Number of employees and thatmotivated me to continue staying
out there.
And I think, you know, we sortof came to an agreement that he
(11:49):
wanted something different.
He was getting married and wasmoving out west, but.
Early on it was great.
And again, we're good friendsand our separation was very
amicable.
Russel (11:59):
Always glad to hear a good amicable partnership, goes
separate ways or if, if it's notworking out.
But it sounds like, you know, Ithink one of the most important
things, it seems like when Italk with folks that are in
partnerships is just havingthose open conversations about
what does each side want and howthe business can or can't.
Provide that for each of thepartners in the business and be
(12:21):
willing to take those, thoseleaps or that having those tough
conversations when it's notmapping out.
It sounds like you were able tohave those and that's why you're
still friends and able to talkabout it in, in the way you are
today.
Stephanie (12:33):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, and as much as I do thatit's beyond a full-time job, you
know, and that's not foreverybody.
It's not for every, owning abusiness, running a business is
not for everybody.
It's you have your days andnights where you're up all night
and making really difficultdecisions.
And I think at the end of theday, it ended up being a
(12:53):
lifestyle decision.
So
Russel (12:55):
yeah.
And at what point, and maybe ithas or hasn't happened yet, did
you get to where you're like,you know what?
I think I've got this thingfigured out or a little bit past
that anxiety stage and into, Ithink this whole thing is gonna
be all right.
Stephanie (13:11):
Ooh, that's a good question.
Um, I feel like it's always alittle bit of a rollercoaster
rides, you know?
Um,
Russel (13:19):
for sure.
Stephanie (13:19):
Yeah.
But I think that.
You, well, I'm gonna answer thequestion two different ways.
I hit a point where I think justthrough experience and having
been on the ride for a while,you get used to those valleys
and climbing those hills and theexcitement.
So.
(13:40):
Eventually the emotional side ofit, teeters off of it.
And I think too, that I did hita point where I probably had
made a decent amount of moneyand I just said, I'm, I'm
comfortable.
This is not a lifestyle thing.
I don't think I'm gonna evergonna have to work for somebody
else.
You know?
So that when you hit that pointtoo, that just gives you some
comfort where you're sort oflike, okay, I've done, well, you
(14:01):
know.
I know I'm okay, you know, somaybe my ego will be bruised,
but at the end of the day, I'mgonna be able to afford my home
and my mortgage and feeding mychildren inevitably.
Russel (14:14):
Yeah,
Stephanie (14:14):
definitely.
So,
Russel (14:15):
okay.
Which breeds some othercuriosities on my end.
When you look back at your ownjourney, and it sounds like
you've interacted with andtalked with a lot of agency
owners.
You're basically describing aplace that not a lot of folks
get to or are not there yet,what do you think your secret
sauce was that, you know,allowed you to be successful to
get to that point?
Stephanie (14:34):
Um, I think a lot of it was grit, hard work, and I
look at success different ways.
I think that, you know, learninghow to manage and lead was
something that I succeeded inover time.
I wasn't perfect at it early onbecause I was a stress case
early on.
Success in, in.
Reputation and knowing that, youknow, there are a lot of people
(14:57):
out there in the market that hadgood things to say about us.
And when that starts coming backto you, it's so fulfilling and
it gives you a new sense ofconfidence that you know, you
can kind of keep marchingforward and continuing to try to
grow and evolve and challengeyourself and challenge your
team.
If that answers the question acouple of ways.
Russel (15:16):
No secret to the secret or no, right or wrong to the
secret sauce.
Okay.
No secret to the secret sauce.
Um, you know, and, and I thinkthat is an often key indicator
is for folks, and I don't knowwhere the chip is always, but
when the focus is a lot more onproviding just exceptional
results, and even if thebusiness is a little chaotic and
(15:38):
a little stressful around theperipheral, then I think some
folks are able to kind of putthat aside because job number
one is.
Doing massive success for theclients.
And if you can start to workthrough that and figure that
out, then it seems like it, ittends to work out well for
agencies on the backside.
Stephanie (15:55):
I think there were years where I was actually more
focused on the success of ourteam because I think that when I
didn't focus on the numbers myhusband used to say to me.
You don't even know yourfinancial.
Russel (16:08):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (16:08):
Because I was so focused on our team being the
best they could be and beinghappy because when those two
things happened, it just flowedinto how we were working with
our clients.
And so I just think that bothare equally important because I
see a lot of environments, I seea lot of agencies that are quote
unquote successful, but youknow, they've got a track record
(16:30):
of burning people out or nottreating people well.
And so.
You wanna be able to bring thetwo together.
And I think that I learned thoselessons over the years.
I don't think I was perfect atany of it.
I think we're always good atdoing good service, but um, you
know, you gotta work on theinternal stuff too.
Russel (16:47):
Yeah, for sure.
The theme there, I'm, I'mhearing you say, is happy people
do great work.
A big believer in that itself,especially in the creative
strategic space.
We, we need our people to be, wefire in all cylinders to do the
best work.
And I mean, as you shared, it'snot something that can happen
overnight.
It's not an easy process tolearn.
(17:08):
Is there anything you can thinkback of that, you know, really
helped you facilitate or reallycreate that environment of happy
people?
Stephanie (17:16):
Yeah, I think, um.
We had little task forces and westill do, but we were always
trying to get creative about howto come together and have fun
for one.
But I think too, just showingpeople that we were investing in
them, whether it was how we wereteaching them or exposing them
through conferences or whateverit might be, they felt that
(17:39):
investment and they, I thinkthey were appreciative of it.
And I'm not gonna say for 16years, we always had happy
people.
That was not the case.
You know, we learned somelessons along the way, but I
think that we've done a lot,even from a benefit perspective,
um, as well.
And just making sure that we'regiving people the flexibility.
Post COVID obviously flipped alot of companies on their heads
(18:02):
and how they work, and so.
I had to get over my old schoolmentality of, you know, we have
to get back to the office.
And I let that go and I was moreabout, are we doing good work?
Are people happy?
And that continued to happen.
And so I've, I've got us to apoint where people are coming
in, we're encouraging them acouple of days a week, and.
(18:24):
You know, there are days thatpeople just can't come in for
whatever reason, for personalreason.
We're okay with it.
We do a lot of things likecollege tuition reimbursement
and unlimited vacation.
Just lots of things that allowpeople flexibility or help them
in their lives, and I think thatultimately that's what people
appreciate too.
Russel (18:42):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'm, as you're sharingthis, I, I'm just pictured in
this head of, maybe one of themore important things,
especially once you get someteam members within your agency
is, is this teeter-totter of,are we doing good work and are
people happy?
And if we can keep thatbalanced, um, generally things
should be running pretty smooth,but no different than maybe you
(19:02):
said some agencies out therethat might tip the scale to.
Pushing for the work side, butit pushes the happy people out
of balance.
Or, uh, I've seen environmentswhere the people are probably a
little too happy and takingtheir eye off the ball of the
work.
So that is just a constanttension that we're trying to
balance here in the, in theagency space.
Stephanie (19:20):
Yeah, I do, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Russel (19:24):
I mean, obviously, you know, You talk about learning
and nobody gets this thingperfect.
It's just too complicated of abusiness to be in, when,
especially when we bring in thefactor of all things people.
Where do you feel like.
You just as an individual, as aperson, where did you get your
knowledge from?
Was it just on the job or werethere resources out there that
you found more extremely helpfulor things you participated in?
(19:46):
Where were you helping guideyour own professional and
personal development as you'regrowing your agency?
I.
Stephanie (19:51):
Um, well, so through in the earlier years, I was
still focused on media andobviously my job changed and
evolved, I would say everycouple of years where I took on
responsibility shifted and itcontinues to, actually this year
I'm spending differently than Ihave in the past.
Um, so early on.
I would say that again, it wastalking to other agencies,
(20:12):
learning how to collaborate withthem.
It was a different way ofworking than what I had before
where I had always been in fullservice agencies, but then as a
leader and a manager.
I leaned in a lot to yes,conversations with people.
Thinking back on what I enjoyedor didn't enjoy with my previous
managers, as well as reading alot.
(20:33):
Um, I don't do it as much as Iused to, but business books,
leadership books, managementbooks.
Harvard Business Reviewarticles.
Oh yes.
Russel (20:44):
Get old Harvard Business.
Yeah,
Stephanie (20:45):
those are good.
Quick five, 10 minute reads, andyou can share them with people.
And so we would do a lot ofthings too, like we started
doing, and we still do themprobably only about once a year
now, but we do executiveoffsites where we learn and
share from each other, and wereally dig in on how the
company's doing and how we'reworking together.
And we all learn from that.
(21:06):
When you have that much timewith people, you are really
gonna be able to see into thedetails of what's going on at
your company.
And so we continue to make surewe're spending the appropriate
amount of time talking about notjust what's happening in the day
to day, but the bigger picture.
Russel (21:21):
What's your favorite, like if you had to think of
like, Hey, this, this bookreally shaped my thoughts on
business or as a leader.
What's that book for you?
Hmm.
Stephanie (21:30):
Um, there's a few one that I'm thinking of because I
just mentioned the offsites.
Um, it, it's kind of hokey.
It's called the FiveDysfunctions of a Team.
Russel (21:43):
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Stephanie (21:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good one.
And it, I feel like it reallytaught us how to communicate and
hold each other accountable andlots of other things.
So we all read it and would havediscussions around it.
And then, starting with Why bySimon Sinek is Oh yes.
Is definitely one, um, daring tolead by Brene Brown are probably
the ones that pop into my head.
(22:05):
And then, like I said, again,those HBR.
Are always invaluable.
Um.
So I don't do it as much.
Oh, there was a book by, um, theCEO of Zappos when Zappos was a
really big deal back in the day.
Russel (22:19):
Oh.
Uh, guide to Happiness orsomething.
Yeah.
Delivering Happiness.
Delivering Happiness.
Stephanie (22:22):
That was a great one.
Yeah.
Yes.
Um, for both internal andexternal and customer service
and all of that.
That was another one that Ithink I bought.
So I would buy these books forthe agency, you know,
encouraging people to read, notholding them to it.
But, um, anything I was excitedabout there, I would always
share with everyone.
Russel (22:39):
All great books.
I haven't read The Daring toLead by Brene Brown, but, uh, I
hear so much about her and seeso much of her other content.
I feel like I need to get thatone on the list.
Stephanie (22:48):
Yeah, she's great.
She's great.
Russel (22:50):
I love five dysfunctions of a team.
I mean, it proves that not allbooks have to be drawn out and
heavily research driven, right?
It can be just a little fable, Ithink is how it refers to itself
of some stories about someimportant concepts in business.
And, it just speaks to us at amore simpler level, but doesn't
lessen the impact by any means.
Stephanie (23:08):
Absolutely.
Like I said, it's a little hokeyin the Fable format, but, uh, so
you can giggle through it, butat the same time, big lessons to
be learned.
Russel (23:17):
Yeah, I'm curious your thought, I mean, right.
You hear it so much in theworld, right?
You know that a lot of, youknow, successful people say how
important reading is.
Um, and I, I never quite knowmyself.
Is that a causality or acorrelation?
Right?
You know, do people that tend toread a lot, do they do something
else that actually gives themmore successful traits?
(23:39):
Or is it the actual knowledgegained and learned from reading?
What are your thoughts there?
Stephanie (23:46):
I think it's probably the knowledge gained from
learning.
I, you know, it definitelythrough that reading with each
book or each article, it wouldopen my eyes to something and it
would allow me to at least testsomething out.
The way that I'm managing orcommunicating, you know, I would
say I don't have a lot ofsuperpowers, but one of my
(24:06):
superpowers that I learned, andI actually love coaching people,
is on difficult conversations.
I can have any difficult, I canhave a difficult conversation
with virtually anybody, and it'snot an easy thing.
It's like flexing a muscle.
You have to work that muscle andlearn how to gain the confidence
to get your points across andcommunicate, and that was
definitely something that Ilearned.
(24:27):
Through reading and testing andtrying and practicing, and have
I mastered it?
Not necessarily, but I feelpretty confident in that area.
Russel (24:38):
Oh, now, now, now this is getting into some juicy stuff
from what I'm concerned.
Um, just because the idea of, Iread and, uh, I guess rest of
the world might not think thisis juicy, but I really love
simple solutions or solutionsthat solve a lot of other
problems.
So something just like that,like you're saying, like if I
can just learn to have.
Difficult conversations and getgood at that.
(25:00):
How many problems does thatsolve?
All right.
That solves teams problems.
That solves problems withclients, that that solves sales
problems, solves marriage
Stephanie (25:07):
problems.
It's about, you know, too, yeah,it's about good communication
and direct honest communicationand learning how to sandwich the
tough stuff with softer stuff sothat people receive the message
well.
You know, I don't know if Iwould call it an art, but it's
something that needs to bepracticed and thought through
(25:27):
for
Russel (25:27):
sure.
I would absolutely call it, Iwould call it an art.
I think it's an an art form and,and to the point it covers every
facet of life really.
Even if you get your fast foodorder messed up at McDonald's,
it helps you navigate thatsituation.
Stephanie (25:41):
Right?
Yeah.
Russel (25:43):
Yeah.
We took a similar approach and Iguess a somewhat similar
concept.
Um, so we were sitting aroundone day.
And the designers were, youknow, designers in an agency
always seemed to struggle withthis idea of how they get
feedback and what they have todo with it and how they
interpret it.
So our designers were wanting tocreate this really intricate, I
(26:03):
would say, feedback process sothat they could corral this of
feedback we were getting and,and took a step back and looked
and said, I think we're goingtoo far with this.
What if we just got good at theart of feedback.
We wouldn't have to create allthis process and infrastructure
around it.
And so we went down that pathand we actually really adopted,
I dunno if you've read RadicalCandor, um, but we adopted that.
(26:25):
Kind of framework and processand started doing a lot of
training, reading anddiscussions around that, and as
to be a foundational layer tosolve a lot of things in our
business.
Stephanie (26:35):
I am familiar with radical candor, and it's
actually one of the things thatwe talked about a lot.
I know you're saying Reddit, butwasn't there also a video on it?
I don't remember.
Oh,
Russel (26:44):
I'm sure there is.
I, yeah.
I feel like everybody makes thatthere's like a 10 minute, um,
overview video.
Not different than the Power ofWhy by Simon Sinek that tell
folks if you don't wanna readthe book, go watch the 10 minute
talk at least.
Stephanie (26:55):
Yeah.
Um, it was a bunch of yearsback, but it was definitely
something that we talked about.
And I agree with you and youknow, it's funny too, not to
stereotype, but with differenttypes of roles.
Creatives.
They're known for not takingfeedback well, because it's
their art, it's their craft.
It's coming from their passion.
You know?
It's not like a lot of what wedeal with, which is maybe
(27:16):
numbers, so we could critiquebased on facts in some cases.
Obviously when we're talkingmanagement, we're talking about
something completely different.
But I would say that that musthave been tricky for you, trying
to navigate feedback to creativeminded people.
Um, from my experience there,they take it pretty personally.
Russel (27:35):
Yeah.
And this notion, right, and Iget this side of it's the part
of, you know, for us in webdevelopment, but it's the most
visual part.
So it's the most.
Attribute that everyone doesfeel like they can speak to and
comment to.
So they probably do tend to getmore feedback than nobody's
commenting necessarily on thebackend code as much or anything
along those lines.
I think what really to the pointof what you're saying just as
(27:58):
much is, is important in the artof giving good feedback at the
art of receiving feedback.
Well, and one of the big thingsthat we focused on was that
feedback is never.
Statements.
It is always a collaboration anda conversation.
So you might hear a thing andrather than react to the
statement, right, it's your alsoyour job to interpret what you
(28:18):
heard and or, and repeat thatback to the person and either or
reframe or ask some questionsaround what they're hearing,
right?
Not just, not just assume thatthe feedback is what the
feedback is, but again, yeah,make the process more
collaborative.
So I just think that thatthought process and going down
that path and just learningdifferent ways we can do that.
Never got perfect, as you'vesaid before, but, uh, certainly
(28:40):
helped people along that path.
Stephanie (28:42):
Yeah, I love that.
And, uh, again, it comes down togood communication.
And the other thing I would sayis one thing I had to learn over
the years was how to respond andnot react.
Russel (28:52):
Um mm.
Mm-hmm.
Because
Stephanie (28:54):
I definitely, I can be fiery and I've grown a lot in
that way, but I, that wasdefinitely one of my flaws early
on.
Was overreacting probably,rather than taking a deep breath
and responding.
Russel (29:08):
Yeah.
Well I have no doubt that comeswith some life maturity.
You know, again, I do think thisis a business that if we are
doing great work, people areputting themselves out there and
it certainly creates more of anenvironment where we're gonna
have some feelings and somereactions.
But I think that is alsoimportant to create great work,
is to push the boundaries.
You gotta, as you shared, bewilling to have some hard
(29:29):
conversations.
Right.
Stephanie (29:31):
Exactly.
Russel (29:32):
Well that was a path.
Didn't know we'd go down, butthat was a pretty fun part of
the conversation.
Something you shared earlierthat I think is a pretty
critical, I want you say,components in the agency owner's
journey is getting a grasp onfinances.
And I can't remember where yousaid you got to in that part of
your journey, but at some pointthat's a obstacle that has to be
(29:54):
overcome or at least tackled.
Have you tackled that?
And what did that look like foryou?
Stephanie (29:59):
I've tackled it from a high level perspective.
I'm very fortunate in that whenwe started the agency, I had a
friend of a friend as apart-time CFO, and with media,
there's so much processed from abilling perspective that we
ultimately ended up needingsomeone full-time because we're
processing hundreds of bills amonth.
(30:21):
Um, and then.
He just is a great guy that hadtons of business acumen and has
worn many different hats workingfor small companies, not
agencies in the past.
So that was new for him, but heunderstood technology, he
understood it stuff.
He understood HR stuff.
So he had worn many hats beforeand that was very beneficial.
(30:41):
So it was an easy decision tobring him on.
So he led the way.
My husband definitely was alwayspoking his nose and things back
in the day, and so I know enoughto be dangerous now, but it's
not something that I stillobsess over.
It's something that I keep aneye on and I know where we
always are without.
(31:02):
Digging deeply into the numbersand analyzing the numbers weekly
or monthly.
Russel (31:07):
Okay.
And that makes sense.
I mean, I guess, right.
Just by the nature of the typeof agency you are, you had to
have an in-house financialguidance in some capacity almost
from the get go, which I think alot of other agencies in other
realms, when they start out,they, don't have a lot of
transactions, invoicing, orexpenses that are otherwise.
And so there isn't that need.
But that sounds like that was.
(31:28):
Serendipitously beneficial partof just having that resource and
guidance almost from the get go.
Stephanie (31:33):
Yeah, very, very lucky to have him.
He's, I consider him a righthand man in business.
There isn't much that I don'trun by him, and he understands
our industry really, really wellnow.
So he's an asset.
Russel (31:46):
So yeah, find somebody that knows numbers really,
really well, that they can helpyou along that journey or yeah,
guide you through that process.
Well, such a great conversationso far.
I'm just curious in how you'relooking at the future of the
agency.
What is the next, I think yousaid 16 years.
What does the next 16 years looklike?
How, how do you fit into thatpicture?
Stephanie (32:09):
I don't think it's gonna be 16 years.
I'm 54.
I've been doing this a longtime, so I'm loving where we
are.
We we're a well-oiled machine.
My job now is most.
How do we get word out thereabout us?
How do we forge newpartnerships, networking,
conferences, and poking my headin with clients.
(32:29):
But my team is so great aboutkeeping our clients happy.
So aside from me doing thesemini, I don't even wanna call
them report cards, butcheck-ins.
I'm not involved in the day today.
The one thing that we're.
Obsessing over a bit right nowis everything ai, like everybody
else is.
So we're making sure that we'rekeeping an eye on everything
(32:51):
that's emerging when it comes toadvertising and media, how we
can be using the tools,assessing the tools.
Anything new that's coming out,it's gonna be interesting
because I think a lot of thingswill shake out, but how is it
ultimately going to help us dobetter work for our clients?
I don't wanna just look at it asan efficiency tool.
(33:12):
I want us to be able to getsmarter from it.
And so that's an area that we'refocused on a lot I shared with
you, which is going to be, Idon't know when this is gonna be
published, but.
One of my very senior peoplethat has been with me for a long
time is gonna be leaving at theend of the summer.
With that brings opportunity,um, for other people.
(33:33):
So I've got some folks that areamazing, a couple that I'm
elevating that will becontributing to filling his
shoes.
So it's not a role that I feellike we need to replace.
Instead, it's openingopportunities for other people
as a smaller agency.
That is one challenge sometimesis sort of like, how are people
(33:54):
gonna grow?
Where are they gonna go?
Russel (33:56):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (33:56):
In some cases, as you know, it requires people leaving
and so it's that departure.
But that is one thing that I'mfocused on now is how are we
covering all of our tracksthere?
How are we making sure the workis being distributed the right
way?
How are we making sure thatwe're checking all of the boxes
and that nothing is being missedand that we're only gonna be
better coming out of thischange?
So.
(34:17):
That's kind of all of the shortterm stuff.
As far as the long term goes.
You know, I, I wanna be a littlebit better known in other
markets.
I'd like to continue forgingnew, uh, relationships and
partnerships.
So again, as I said, that's oneof the things that I'm doing is
just getting out there andmeeting a lot of people, um,
(34:37):
which is something I love to do.
So it certainly isn't anything Ican complain about.
I've been doing it the last sixmonths.
I'm ready for a little vacay,but I'll be ready to get back to
it again in the fall.
Um, and.
How long will I be at it?
It's difficult to say.
I've got a couple girls incollege.
Um, I'm starting to think aboutwhat might be next for me, and
(34:59):
so I don't know if I will mapout in the next few years a
successor situation or anacquisition or something, but
it's something that I need tothink about and keep an open
mind to.
I've been doing this a long timeand I wanna see what's next for
me too down the road.
So, entertaining lots ofdifferent things.
Russel (35:19):
Yeah.
I mean, clearly you're kind ofin a.
I don't think I'd say the wordat a crossroads here, but you're
at a, you're at a precipice inthe business where it sounds
like you're doing the thingsthat really cater to your
strengths and talents, and thebusiness doesn't need you in the
day-to-day grind, and in aperfect place to just kind of
ask yourself, really start tofill in those gaps of maybe what
the future looks like.
But we don't have to know thistomorrow.
(35:41):
It can certainly be an expert orpath, but I just wanna say
congratulations to be whereyou're at in this.
Imagine it's.
I don't even know the words isjust, uh, very comforting.
I guess we'll just go back tothe word comforting.
Stephanie (35:55):
Yeah.
That, and there's a lot ofreflection, especially when you
have a change, like what we'regoing through now.
It's, I don't wanna say it feelslike the end of an era, but
having some of the originals.
Leave feels different for me.
It's an emotional thing that I'mgoing through for sure.
You know?
Yeah.
And it sort of forces you tothink about what's next for you
too, when somebody else ismoving on.
(36:18):
So,
Russel (36:18):
yeah, that is true.
And it's a season,
Stephanie (36:21):
yeah.
Russel (36:21):
Not an era, but a, a season season.
Stephanie (36:24):
I like, I like that.
Russel (36:25):
I always did, appreciate that.
It's devastating.
It sometimes felt when a longtime team member was leaving.
It's, it's exactly what you saidof it was also neat to see the
people step up and that.
Right.
You know, sometimes a verysenior person cast a bigger
shadow.
People just rely on them to docertain things and then you see
where other people can Yeah.
(36:46):
Step up and bloom and, andthat's a fun thing to watch as
well.
Stephanie (36:49):
Oh, definitely.
As much as it's bittersweet,there's a little bit of sadness
there.
People are jazzed about what'snext for them.
They're psyched, you know, tohave opportunities to lead.
They're psyched to haveopportunities, to have more
responsibility.
And I feel like it, um,actually, you know, re-energizes
the agency.
Russel (37:10):
A new, new opportunity for innovation and as you were
sharing there earlier, AI andYeah, certainly the hot topic
and all things agency now.
Yeah.
Um, but we and my wife werehaving conversation other night
over wine and the debate was,does AI make us smarter?
Does it make us more stupid?
And I think both, well, I mean,right.
It's, I think it's my personaltake.
(37:31):
You can share what you think is,is exactly what smart people are
using to make themselves smarterand people that.
I won't say aren't smart, butpeople that aren't using it in
that way probably are using itas almost a handicap or a crutch
in a unhealthy way, I guess youcould say.
Stephanie (37:46):
Yeah.
And I don't wanna call thosepeople out as being lazy, but
yeah, there's a lot to belearned there.
It's in a really exciting time.
It's a little scary at times,you know, there's some
uncertainty that comes with it,but there's also opportunity
that comes with it.
Russel (38:05):
I tend to be in the camp.
It's another evolutionary tool,not necessarily different than
the website internet.
And once everything settles downabout it, we'll adapt to it and
we'll figure out how to best useit or not.
Best use it to, uh, just like wehave you done with the internet.
Well.
Thank you so much for being sotransparent in your story.
I'll ask you one last bigquestion, are entrepreneurs born
(38:27):
or are they made?
Stephanie (38:30):
Oh, I think, can I say both?
Can I say both and explain why
Russel (38:33):
this one, this one time?
No, uh, most people say
Stephanie (38:36):
both.
Um, you know, I think the skillsof an entrepreneur.
Some of it is born.
Like I said, I've always lookedat myself as a little more
adventurous and a risk taker.
I don't know that everybody hasthat in them.
I'm a little competitive, I'm alittle resilient and I think
(38:57):
that some of those things you'rejust.
Born with potentially.
But some things have to belearned like, and I would say
there's a gray area withleadership, right?
Like I admitted I might have hadsome of that in me innately, but
I also needed to learn some ofit.
You know, networking isn'tsomething I don't think that you
are.
Born to network and it's, Idon't think that that's
(39:17):
necessarily innate.
Maybe it is a little bit, but Ithink it's a little bit of a
skill too.
Problem solving, things likethat.
There's some things have to belearned and practiced and those
muscles that you flex and somethings you're probably born with
and made to do, so.
Russel (39:32):
Great answer.
Thanks.
Love it.
I'm gonna just sum that up tosay, you can have some raw
traits here and there, butultimately, if you're gonna make
good use of them, that they'vegotta be polished, you've gotta
add onto them, you've gottalearn, and then ultimately, who
cares if they're born or made atthat point,
Stephanie (39:48):
right?
Yeah, I like that.
That was a much more concise wayto say what I said.
Russel (39:52):
Hey, 50% of my job is just summarizing what folks say
and, repeating it back to them.
So there is a trait I've had topolish in my realm.
Well,
Stephanie (40:00):
you're good at it.
You're good.
Russel (40:02):
Well, thank you.
Alright, well if you wanna knowmore about Nor Bella, where can
they go?
Stephanie (40:07):
You can go to nobel.com, which is
N-O-R-B-E-L-L-A, do com.
The other place I would look tofind sort of what's going on,
real time.
We're posting pretty frequentlyon LinkedIn about what we've got
going on, where I am, where I'mtraveling or, or things going on
at the agency.
Russel (40:25):
Alright, well if I'm not following you already, I'll have
to make sure I'm payingattention to all those travels.
But once again, thank you somuch Steph, for sharing so many
wonderful parts of your journeyso far and really just walking
away with the power of learningand bringing on new skills and,
and all these subar I would saywhen you're thinking about, uh,
everything you have to learn andknow and, and just making that a
(40:46):
continuous journey and reallyappreciate you taking the time
to share all your wonderfulinsights with us today.
Stephanie (40:51):
Thanks so much.
I really enjoyed theconversation.
Russel (40:54):
Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Stephanie (41:16):
I used to write goofy poems and send them out to the
agency.
If something happened, I wouldwrite a poem about it.
Like I had this girl that wasreally mad that somebody drank
her milk, and so I wrote a poemthat started whole milk.
1%, 2%.
(41:37):
Something, whatever.
But anyway, I don't know thatI'm giving the story justice,
but I used to take funny littlethings that happened in the
agency, write poems about themand send them off.
Russel (41:48):
That's amazing.
That is so cool.
Um, I mean, how did you evencome up with the idea for that?
Stephanie (41:56):
I think just maybe when there's a frustrating
situation or a funny situation,like just trying to bring it
back to humor and not take itall so seriously to give people
a giggle, you know?
I don't know.
Russel (42:09):
Yes.
I need a copy of one of thesepoems.
I
Stephanie (42:12):
will.
I will send you one.
I will send you one.
I absolutely will.
Russel (42:17):
That'll be great.
Gotta dig it
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