June 29, 2025 • 31 mins
Company: Upswept Creative
Guests: Sarah Giffrow
Year Started: 2011
Employees: 1-10
What if staying un-niched was your more niche than you think? In this episode, Sarah Giffrow of Upswept Creative shares why she chose variety over specialization, and how it’s helped her build a values-driven agency that aligns with who she is. From helping mission-focused clients to overcoming the challenge of marketing her own business, Sarah offers honest insights agency owners can relate to.
Key Takeaways
- How there are many forms to niching, including just being your authentic self
- How to align your marketing voice with your values (without turning off ideal clients)
- A practical way to carve out time for your agency’s own brand work
Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Ever feel like your agency is trying to help
everyone but struggling to helpitself?
Welcome to an agency storypodcast.
I'm your host Russell.
In this episode, we explore whathappens when you lead with
heart, serve with boundaries,and still struggle to find time
for your own voice.
I'm joined by Sarah Giffrow,founder of Upswept Creative, a
(01:01):
Portland based agency that'sjust as passionate about social
equity as they are about webdesign and digital storytelling.
From building websites innotepad to becoming a voice for
social impact and inclusivity inmarketing, Sarah's story is as
rich as it is real.
We dive into the unique tensionmany agency owners face doing
great work for others whileneglecting their own brand.
(01:22):
Along the way, Sarah shares howshe transformed a layoff into a
launchpad, why there's more toher niche than she gives herself
credit for, and what it means toput wealth in the hands of
compassionate people.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show everyone.
I have Sarah Giffrow withUpswept Creative with us here
today.
Thank you so much show on theshow today, Sarah.
Sarah (01:41):
Thank you for having me.
Russel (01:42):
Glad to have you.
It took us some rescheduling afew times to get here, kids and
life and, some things alongthose lines, but we're here.
Sarah (01:49):
We made it.
Russel (01:50):
We made it.
All is well that ends well.
If you don't mind, kick us offhere and tell us what Upswept
does and who you do it for?
Sarah (01:57):
We are focused on websites, social media and email
marketing.
We tend to work withservice-based businesses,
usually on the like small tomedium side, and also
non-profits.
There always seem to be a coupleof those in the mix.
Those are the main categories.
We aren't like super niched outand that's that's on purpose.
Russel (02:17):
I wanna go back in time a little bit and understand how
you got to where you're attoday.
But, what is the purpose behind,uh, intentionally not niching
down?
Sarah (02:25):
I think something that's always appealed to me, uh, in
this work is, is having, havingunique problems to solve.
I've never really wanted thework to feel like rote or
repetitive.
I want it to feel like a newjourney every time, because
ultimately, every client's gottheir own struggles that
they're, that they're goingthrough.
(02:45):
I like being able to dig into,why they do what they do and
what the roadblocks are, andfiguring out, okay, how, how can
I use my skillset to make theirlives easier and make these
goals more achievable?
Russel (02:58):
Obviously a lot of the market and talk today is moving
them more, more the direction ofmore focused positioning,
oftentimes in terms of thisparticular industry.
But I help a lot of folks dothat and I always just say,
look, there's many ways we cango about this thing.
Some routes make it easier, butsome routes really just need to
touch our creative soul or ourpassions and things like that.
There's no one way to go aboutthis and if it works for you and
(03:21):
is, is leading in the directionyou want to go, then rock on and
do it.
It sounds like you've been ableto do that.
Um, Let's see.
Let's go back and find out whatyoung Sarah, well, how, how she
came about in the world.
What were her goals, hopes anddreams?
What does she wanna do with herlife?
Sarah (03:35):
I think the answer to that question changed so many
times when, uh, when I was, uh,when I was growing up and going
through school and college andall of that.
Initially in my career I was allwebsites all the time.
That was my gateway drug to, tolike just the whole realm.
Russel (03:50):
I love that terminology.
Gateway drug.
I built websites as a gatewaydrug.
Sarah (03:55):
yeah.
You know, I mean, I was likestaying up and staying up late
in college and like, yeah, justhand coding HTML in like notepad
on a PC that I built myself.
It was very old school.
Um, I got into design throughthat and that's how I ended up
coming around to getting adegree in design, which, uh,
(04:16):
which yeah, after changing mymajor a few times.
I worked in websites for aneducational software company and
then an education focusednon-profit.
So, very much in the educationspace, but also in the nonprofit
space.
It was kind of cool to have, oneto have roots in that non in the
nonprofit space and get a lookat some of the challenges that
(04:37):
those organizations go through,particularly with funding.
But then also to be on thedesign side in, in a software
company.
I'd always been technicallyminded.
I think earlier in my career Iwas a little resistant to being
a developer, but I've embracedthat over time.
I, I like to say I'm anaccidental marketer these days
(04:58):
because the further you get intowebsites, the, the more you
gotta understand the, themarketing aspect of it.
Russel (05:04):
Isn't that the truth?
Sarah (05:05):
It's such an important piece to making it successful.
Russel (05:07):
So you went to a gateway drug as being the web tech side,
and then it sounds like you're,I don't know what's next after
gateway drug?
Your hardcore drug becamedesigned, but it sounds like you
really have that left brain,right brain thing going on as
you've developed and honed yourskillset.
Sarah (05:21):
Very much.
I went the left brain directionfor a short while.
Had a little photography sidehustle, but then, and that
connected me with, a lot of likelocal makers and yeah, more in
the small business realm.
And yeah, A lot of times Iwould, I would look those folks
up and look up their websitesand just be like, oh my gosh,
like, what they just showed meis not reflected at all in this
(05:41):
online space?
Russel (05:42):
You can't put my photos on your crappy website is what
I'm hearing you're saying underyour breath here.
But what a great intro.
Sarah (05:48):
I think that was really what, what made me want to go
out on my own and, and do my ownthing.
I just really wanted to be ableto use my skills to help the
people who were doing reallyincredible things, whether it's
through making or, or healingor, social justice work.
They're just incredible skillsets that I, I don't have, but
(06:10):
then I have skills that, thatcan support what they do.
I just wanna solve problems forpeople.
Russel (06:14):
That's all I want to do.
That's your real hardcore drugis solving problems for people.
I love that reference.
I'm curious, just kind of get anunderstanding of your, where
your risk tolerance falls,right?
Clearly you started, soundslike, go down an entrepreneurial
path with with photography andthen, uh, it seems like the
writing's on the wall and howthat really parlayed into your
official agency business.
Was that like a side hustle andthen eventually you're making
(06:35):
enough to make that leap?
Or did you just say one day I'm,I'm done with this corporate
mess and I'm just gonna startdoing my own things, and then
that beget your evolution paththat you already shared?
Sarah (06:45):
I think I was doing like the occasional project, like on
the side in a really small way.
There were some funding cuts,um, at the nonprofit as they
often are, um, and so and so,yeah, I got laid off.
Russel (06:57):
So goes the DOW, so goes the nonprofit.
Sarah (06:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got laid off and one of thenice things about Oregon is
that, um, when you're receivingunemployment benefits, they
have, um, they have like a smallbusiness assistance program.
Rather than being like, Iapplied for these jobs this
week, you can say, okay, I didthese things to develop my own
business.
That was actually a reallyhelpful tool is that I was able
(07:22):
to just put all my energytowards setting up my business.
Russel (07:26):
Okay.
I'm curious'cause I, I don'tknow that I've heard of a
program specifically like this.
Is it designed just to, hey,spend your time doing this so
you can still get unemploymentas long as you're working on,
working on a business?
Or are they actually giving youother tools, guidance and, and I
don't know if even funding orsomething like that to, to move
in that direction?
Sarah (07:43):
It's basically, you know, you, you work on your business
instead of, applying to otherjobs to, to receive your
unemployment benefits.
They at least an email with someother resources like Score and,
and a lot of those other smallbusiness resource center type of
things.
Russel (07:57):
All right.
I'm curious.
I know around here they havethe, the small business
development center.
I think it's, it's kind of afunction of SBA, I don't know if
it's tied to any unemploymentbenefits, but I'm, I'm just
curious how those programs workfor folks and, do what they're
intended to do.
I'm looking for a case study, Iguess maybe in that realm, but
sounds like at least a partialone in terms of the program
itself and, and what it helpsyour business do.
Sarah (08:18):
I was pretty committed to my vision of what I wanted to
do.
Even if that vision has changed,uh, pretty dramatically over the
years.
Russel (08:24):
As they're wont to do.
Sarah (08:25):
Oh yeah.
It worked out.
It was good to have the spaceto, to, yeah, to really think
through all of, all those earlypieces.
Instead of, you know, trying tolike cram it in after dinner on
a weeknight.
Russel (08:36):
Focus is key.
How'd you come up with the name?
Was it the same name as from theget go or what?
I love a good naming story.
Sarah (08:42):
It was just me when I started, so I was just like,
Sarah Giffrow Creative,whatever, and didn't, didn't
overthink that piece.
Then I was reminded of the factsthat people very frequently
spell or pronounce my last namewrong.
Russel (08:56):
I live this world too.
I know what you're feeling.
Sarah (08:58):
That was one factor, um, in terms of coming up with a
name.
And then also I, I came aroundto the idea that, you know, I
actually, I actually would liketo build out a team.
Some people love the solopreneurlife, but I like, I like having
some collaborators, so I wantedto give it a name.
I want it to be bigger than justmyself.
Upswept came out of the idea ofjust being really caught up in
(09:21):
the excitement of what you'redoing and what we're building
together.
That's pretty, pretty simplebut, but I liked that, I liked
that feeling.
Russel (09:30):
Love a good on point naming story as well.
Sometimes you just, you justnever know what, how a name came
up.
What year are we talking here?
What timeframe are we in?
Sarah (09:37):
I started on my own in 2011, so it was a good while
ago.
Russel (09:41):
Got some notches under the belt and some experience
there.
You mentioned earlier just thatthere was a, you know, your
vision and just what you tryingto achieve has changed a lot.
How do you just sum up what,what that, where you started to
where you're at today and, andthe key turning points in there?
Sarah (09:56):
Where I started, I mean part of, it was partly fueled by
the facts that, you know.
Once the unemployment benefit,the small business assistance
thing ran out, um, then, youknow, I would have to like
generate income.
I was definitely in that spaceof can probably do it.
If I don't know how to do ityet, I can probably figure it
out.
I feel like that's just one ofmy core beliefs.
(10:17):
I'm always like, oh, well, Idon't know how, I could probably
figure it out.
It was very just I will take thework that, that I, that pays,
that I'm capable of doing.
It was all over the place.
There are websites.
I still took photos for a while.
I designed logos, flyers.
it was just kind of all over themap.
You over time when you like arejust kind of taking whatever
(10:38):
comes through the door, you sortof figure out like what you
really want to be doing.
There are just certain, certaingigs you like a little better
than others.
The niching down for me was notso much about like a particular
industry as, as it was like,okay, I don't want to be
designing literally everythingin the world.
I just wanna bring it down towebsites, basically bring it
(10:59):
back to my roots.
Russel (11:00):
Which, I mean, is a form of niche, right?
To your point, it's a form ofniching.
I don't even know if there'sstereotypical niching or
whatever, but it's, it'sstarting to say no to certain
things, so you can say yes toother things.
I've always asked myself, I'mcurious, your, your thought on
this is, does everyone just needto go through that experience?
Because so many agencies do it,or they start out in their early
years and they're doingeverything for everybody and
(11:21):
they eventually whittle thatdown some more than others.
I always just ask myself is thatjust a natural order of things?
Just so we can figure out what'sbest or should we try to start
out at the gate with a lot morefocus?
Sarah (11:31):
I think it would probably be, easier at least emotionally
to have a really clear pictureof what your niche is gonna be
and what specifically you'regoing to do.
But yeah, I do feel like havinga certain amount of experience
to even determine what that is,is, is sort of necessary.
Sometimes the, the gig thatsounds really cool on the
(11:51):
outside, you get into it and youjust think like, oh my God, this
is a nightmare for, you know,one razor or another.
Maybe it's just pushing yourboundaries in a way that you
don't like, or, or maybe justmanaging particular types of
clients.
I used to do When I was inphotography, I would do events
and, and I pulled out of thatbecause,'cause yeah, it was just
(12:11):
such an incredible drain ofenergy.
I would just get home and Iwould just wanna lay down for
like a week.
Russel (12:18):
That's a good sign way to listen to that signal that
that may be, not be your, yourforte.
Sarah (12:23):
Some of those are definitely something that like
sounded really fun on theoutside, but then, but then,
yeah, like once I'd done it, oh,maybe, maybe this is not for me.
Russel (12:31):
We gotta try all the foods on the buffet.
I mean, this is, I don't know ifyou're a big buffet eater or,
this is how I approach a buffet.
I try everything and then I goin for what I really, really
want.
Maybe that's what an agencybusiness journey has to be, is
you gotta dabble in all thethings and then just like a
buffet, you get the, you end upwith the food, you know, you
like the best.
Sarah (12:48):
I'm definitely a sampler too.
That's, uh, how I end upovereating every Thanksgiving
because we do potluck withfriends and, you know, everybody
brings their A game and I'm justlike, I wanna try everything,
but I'm already so full.
Russel (13:01):
It's tough and, but it seems part and parcel.
so I, I think I'm gonna be incamp, um, you gotta, you gotta
experiment and see what fitsbest for your vision and just
explore.
I can already tell, a key themeto how you approach the world is
helping and giving back.
Was that something you were bornwith?
Is that a, been a learnedexperience for you?
Why is that so important to youand your approach in business?
Sarah (13:22):
I think that, you know, just that, that impulse to help
was, I feel like that's alwaysbeen there to some extent.
Taking care of folks, sometimesto my own detriment.
Although we've, I've also gottenbetter about that as I've gotten
older.
It's really dovetailed nicelywith a lot of the social justice
type of things that I've come tocare more about.
(13:43):
You know, as I've as I've justlearned more about how the world
works and built awareness aboutdifferent issues.
I'm involved with the, withroller derby, um, as, which is
one community which is, verywelcoming generally of, um,
queer and trans folks.
Russel (14:00):
Do you roller derby also or you just, or you just do work
with them?
Sarah (14:04):
I skated for, um, close to 10 years.
And now I'm a referee.
Russel (14:08):
Okay.
That stuff looks brutal.
I'm not gonna lie.
I've had my share of physicalcontact sports, but I don't know
that I'm cut out for, soespecially now I'm not cut out
for, roller derby.
Sorry for the segue, but that'sa very fascinating, uh, sport to
participate in.
Do you have all your arms andlimbs?
Sarah (14:24):
Yep, yep.
I managed to get through itwithout, uh, without any broken
bones.
I've actually never broken abone.
Russel (14:30):
Not even a broken bone.
You must have been the bone,bone breaker.
You must have been the one.
Sarah (14:34):
I hope not.
Nobody likes seeing that happen.
Russel (14:37):
I don't know how not everybody doesn't break a, I
mean, I haven't seen it in awhile, I guess, but I don't know
how every game that there's not10 bones broken.
Anyway, sorry, I, I got you offtrack.
You were explaining all the goodthings you were doing in the
world and I had to talk aboutbeing roller derbies.
Sarah (14:50):
I'm used to that.
I'm connected with, um, with thequeer community.
I'm involved with the, with, um,Oregon Pride of Business, which
is, uh, which is, yeah, veryLGBTQ plus focused small
business organization.
I'm also a woman in a techadjacent industry.
Cause I'm in doing websites, soI'm very aware of the issues
(15:11):
there.
I'm half Taiwanese, so a personof color.
There are a lot of these typesof issues that I, that are,
that, hit me close to home.
Hit me or the people I careabout close to home.
Russel (15:21):
That's great.
I think we had a similarapproach in our business.
Look, we, we're all techer,techies and nerdy nerds and all
that stuff, and you know, wecan't, we're not doctors, we
can't cure cancer,.
But when we're working on ahospital or just some do good
type organization, we have suchpower or empowerment, I guess
you could say to further greatcauses in the world.
So not to take that lightly, andif we can marry business and
(15:43):
making the world a better place,then I, I feel like that's,
that's winning in a nutshell.
Sarah (15:48):
I always appreciate just every opportunity we get to do
that.
Particularly with the nonprofitwork.
If I can like help someone boostthe signal for a clean water
issue.
The Columbia River is huge inour region.
Just such a resource in so manyways.
I've talked to someorganizations who, they've
literally like come in andthey're, um, and yeah, their,
(16:10):
their developments, uh, theirdevelopment consultant will come
in to a meeting with us andthey'll be like saying, yeah, so
this organization, we're they,we were talking with them about,
promoting their research.
And they're like, why don't wedo some radio ads?
He was like, told them like, Idon't think that's the space you
wanna be in anymore.
So yeah, there's, there's a lotof, There's a lot of folks who
(16:33):
are just doing really excellent,important work who just don't
know how to get the word out atall, or, or aren't able to get
the right information out to theright people.
And that's what I do basically.
Russel (16:44):
1972 called, uh, wants its radio ads back.
Again, points to how much wehave to be the experts in these
relationships, and a lot oftimes I talk about it in, you
know, in 2025, marketing is sucha complicated world, far more
complicated than it was even 10years ago, but go back 20, 25
years ago.
It's night and day.
Every day that goes by, it seemslike we have to be more and more
of the experts that guide ourclients through.
(17:06):
it Seems like you've taken thatapproach, not, not only just for
the clients themselves, but infor great causes.
Sarah (17:11):
And I think particularly with, with a lot of the being in
the social media space, um, asof recent has been, uh, pretty
interesting air quotes.
Just with a lot of the, theplatform changes at Meta the,
and the TikTok ban and yeah,people are scrambling and they
don't know what to do and are I,or just fully quitting
(17:31):
platforms.
I've been doing my best to be aresource in that regard and
think, okay, maybe before youdelete your account, if you're
just fully done with thisplatform, let's go through some
steps so you don't just abandonyour whole audience there.
Maybe let's take some of thosefolks with you.
Russel (17:48):
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
That makes total sense.
And something that it stuck outfrom, from a previous
conversation that, that stuckwith me is it sounds like this
is kind of all, underneathwhat's, uh, I think it's your
overarching goal, but you canshare otherwise of just putting
wealth in the hands ofcompassionate people.
If I were to just ask you,what's your fundamental
Sarah (18:06):
That's very much a thought that's in my mind,
particularly in more recentyears.
I've kind of gotten a bit moreradicalized.
It's actually a goal of mine forthis year to, to use our
platform our platform on socialand, and, uh, in the email
space.
Share some of the more like,more radical ideas, uh, that,
that we really care about, theissues that we really care
(18:27):
about, which.
I don't feel like we've everbeen super shy about it, but it
feels like a time to be, to belouder about it.
I feel like what I've alwaysenjoyed, working with
service-based clients too, isthat there's just, there's
always just that undercurrentof, of, that they want to use
what they know, that they wantto use their skillset to make
(18:49):
someone else's life better.
I feel like that's the throughline of everything where, maybe
a nonprofit is doing that on alarger scale, but maybe, a
therapist or, um, or a, um, ADEI consultants, you know,
they'll be doing that on like asmaller scale with like a
smaller team or even one to one.
I think I'm just trying to helppeople who wanna help other
people.
Russel (19:09):
Even that is a form of positioning, putting your,
putting a brand out there andthoughts and ideas and just
generally speaking, as long asthey're in the direction of
helping people, is a, is a greatthing.
And again, A form of positioningthat is a way other businesses
out there can think aboutpositioning.
Not always, just in the kind ofbinary sense of a industry, not
industry focus or a veryspecific service focus or not.
(19:30):
There are other ways to go aboutit, which, again, seems kind of
part and parcel to your journey.
Sarah (19:34):
And I think it is a way too of just like calling in the
kind of projects that you reallywant to be working on and the
people that you wanna be workingwith.
There have been times when I've,you know, I think I've been
approached about like marketing,like a weight loss product or
something like that.
And, and yeah, my, I'm more of abody positive human and I'm not
into the, like, toxic dietculture, and so, you know, from
(19:57):
an ethical standpoint, I, I didnot want that gig.
I think something that, It'ssomething that I recommends to,
to basically everyone I workwith or where know, if you feel
strongly about something, you,you don't necessarily need to
hide that or be shy about it,particularly as a small business
owner.
Part of what you're selling isyou know who you are and, and
(20:18):
your why.
I feel like if it matters enoughto you, it's, maybe it's worth
putting out there.
Russel (20:23):
I think in 2025, going back to that complicated world,
you've got to put the signalsout there to the folks that you
want to align with and workwith, because it's hard to find
otherwise.
It's the lighthouse toultimately find the right types
of projects.
That's a good segue.
Something that I think a lot ofagencies run into is taking the
time to focus on their ownvoice, to focus on their own,
call it marketing or justputting those ideas out there.
(20:45):
I hear it often in terms of thepainter's house is never
painted, cobbler's kid has noshoes, all those wonderful
analogies.
Where do you feel like Upsweptfits into that spectrum of
really, really great aboutfocusing on yourself and then
the opposite of?
Sarah (21:00):
It's definitely felt, definitely felt sort of cyclical
for me.
I've had my good periods and,and my not so good periods.
It was definitely difficult toget into that mindset, uh, uh,
early on.
Part of my working theory aboutwhy it is so hard to do these
things for yourself is that, Ifeel oftentimes when I'm working
with a client, I'm hearing whatthey have to say about their
(21:21):
work and why they do it.
I'm able to look at that and seethe things that are special
about it that, maybe they, theynever even thought about before.
I'm able to actually, look attheir blind spot and point at it
and be like, hey, we could workwith this.
But I can't see my own blindspots'cause it's my blind spots
so that I don't have the benefitof outside perspective working
(21:43):
for me.
It's also just a matter of time.
And, and I think everyentrepreneur like runs into that
where they, you know, there arethose things that you know you
should do for your business andthis whole struggle of like,
working in your business versus,versus working on it.
There's a point where you dohave to just like set some time
aside, block, block it out inyour calendar.
(22:04):
I actually did a really lovely,uh, quarterly planning party
with, uh, with Devin Lee, acouple times and yeah, and the
whole thing was just three hoursat the end of the prior quarter
where you would just, yeah,you'd map out these are the
things I wanna work on.
And then you would actually putit in your planning tool, put it
in your calendar.
You've got all of these layersof accountability.
That's kind of what you'relooking at doing is you gotta
(22:25):
carve out the space for it.
You can't just be throwing allof your energy at your clients
all the time.
Russel (22:30):
I mean in, in your particular case, curiosity,
'cause I, I think I hear verysimilar kind of obstacles and,
and kinda what you shared ofblind spots or maybe just not
knowing exactly where to putthat time, or time itself.
What is your bigger challenge,do you think, in that?
Sarah (22:43):
I was actually talking about this in a, in one of, a
Slack group I'm in the otherday.
Sometimes I will have an ideaand I just need it to be out
there immediately.
I'll like write up a whole emailor like set up a whole, um,
whole series of social mediaposts or something, and I'll be
like, all right, we're, we'reputting this out tomorrow
morning.
I know it probably drives myteam crazy sometimes because as
(23:06):
you know, ideally, you know, Iwould be able to do things in a
more planned out way so that wearen't having to adjust at the
last minute.
I feel like I tend to getinspired, like just, just late
enough where it's reallyunreasonable to like do it in
that timeframe, but I'm like, Ijust, I gotta do it.
I gotta do it.
Stepping back from that and, anddoing something that's more
(23:30):
mapped out and planned formyself, I think is a, is a
challenge that I bump upagainst.
Russel (23:35):
That's funny.
I think I had someone that wastalking about that similar in a
previous episode.
They tried to put themselveslike, hey, when I get hit with
the idea, just, just takeaction, right?
Otherwise it'll either forget itor it'll just go to the back
burner.
There is some value in that, butmaybe if we can just have a
floor of consistency, uh, aswell.
One of the things I feel like Isee a lot is that we don't
(23:56):
really give that consistency ora particular effort enough time,
and then if we start to not feellike things are working or we
don't really see the lineup tobeing successful, then it's easy
to dump back in kind of thedefault of what it sounds like
you shared of client work.
I know I'm getting paid fairthere.
I know there's a good outcomethere.
So let's, Let's go do thatinstead because I started down
(24:16):
this path over here and it just,just didn't seem to produce a
lot.
I feel like, if we go back tothe cobbler's kid example, if
the cobbler was certain thattheir shoes were very valuable,
that I think they would givethem to their kid first.
Or they would make the time tomake sure to make shoes for
their kid.
But maybe that's the gapsometimes is we're not exactly,
goes back to maybe the blindspot, we're not sure what to
(24:38):
work on most to even bemotivated to carve out the time
to focus on it.
Um, but I, I was just curious ifdoes, how does that, does that
apply to your own journey?
You can push back and say, well,no, I don't think that's it for
me.
Sarah (24:49):
Yeah.
Focus is definitely, I thinkthat's a pretty common struggle
too.
It certainly is for me.
I'm an ADHD human, so, which Ithink, you know, probably
contributed to the whole, yeah,sure.
I will do all of the work thatyou will throw at me like
earlier in my career.
My brain really likes to shiftgears, so knowing what to focus
(25:09):
on and, and also what my brainis willing to focus on in a
given moment.
Those two things can be a prettysnarly issue.
Russel (25:17):
I heard a great term with a client the other day that
they called Spicy Brain, thatthey had, they categorized
themselves.
I thought that was a prettyfunny, funny term.
But yeah, we have to, we have towork within the confines of
talents and abilities and, andnatural disposition.
I think a lot of times when Italk with folks, the first place
to start is there's probably acertain amount of things that
are on your list that youshouldn't be doing, so that it's
(25:38):
really, can we, can we get ridof some of that scar tissue
buildup in terms of how yourtime's being spent so we, we can
give some space to some of theseother things.
Then it's the hard work of, allright.
Take the time to come up with agood strategy that we, you can
get behind, versus just maybegoing after a specific task or
just a few things to do that mayor may not bear fruit.
And then that kind of leads thefall off effect.
(25:59):
But, but, uh, thank you forbeing so open about your, your
journey about painting your ownhouse.
Sarah (26:04):
Thank you.
Russel (26:05):
To wrap things up, what does, what does the future hold?
What's your 10 year plan, ifthis was a job interview?
Sarah (26:10):
Definitely, I mean, keep doing what we're doing.
Grow the team out a bit more.
We're looking at, ways to, uh,maybe shift more away from
individual services and so thatwe can look more holistically at
the different components oftheir online marketing.
What's happening on theirwebsite, what's happening on
(26:30):
their social, what's happeningwith their email, because that's
coming back to the what to evenfocus on thing.
You can throw all the money youwant at your social media, but
if people are getting to yourwebsite and being like what do I
even do?
How do I buy a thing from you?
All that energy you're dumpinginto social media isn't really
solving the problem.
I think finding new ways to, tolook for those, those little
holes and those unseen issuesthat they might not, uh, that
(26:52):
they might not be aware of.
That's where my brain is for thenext while.
Russel (26:55):
It sounds like a worthwhile cause and, and to the
point in 2025, it's hard to havea one trick pony marketing
strategy.
Even if we have a specializedservice, we have to think about
the entire ecosystem that'sinvolved in what it takes to
make a client successful intheir marketing.
Wonderful perspective.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to share that.
Last big question for you,Sarah.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Sarah (27:16):
I don't think it was something I saw myself doing
until I started doing it.
I think it was that photographyside hustle.
where, you know, like I was justtaking photos as for fun, um,
and then sort of looking aroundat like, you know, other local
photographers work and I cantake pictures as good as that.
Why don't I just, you know, seeif people will pay me for it?
(27:36):
But it was a why not sort ofthing.
Being willing to take thatchance on yourself, I think is
all you really, all you reallyneed.
And then, yeah, just thetenacity to navigate the journey
that comes after it.
Russel (27:47):
You gotta be born to jump outta the plane, but then
you gotta be made to, to get tothe ground safely.
Or sometimes you gotta getpushed outta the plane.
That's another way that I guessyou don't have to be born.
You can get pushed outta theairplane.
If people wanna know more aboutUpswept Creative and your
journey, where can they go?
Sarah (28:01):
We're at upsweptcreative.com.
At least for the moment, we'restill on Facebook and Instagram.
We're starting to dip our toeinto Bluesky.
We're on LinkedIn.
We've got a weekly email seriescalled Social Media Snack Break
where we dispense little snacksized, bits of info tactics
about social media for folks whoare running small businesses and
(28:24):
feeling overwhelmed about it.
That comes out every Tuesday.
Russel (28:27):
See that's a form of doing your own marketing.
Give yourself more credit than,where credits due.
You're painting your house.
Maybe not all the rooms, butyou're painting your house.
Wonderful journey.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share that from gateway drugs
to really just your focus onmaking the world a better place.
Can't go wrong with that.
Thank you so much for forsharing that all with us today.
Sarah (28:46):
Thank you so much for, for listening.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(29:08):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
It's become less of a thing, um, since COVID, but pre
(29:31):
COVID, we would do, we wouldhave our, uh, weekly team
meetings and, and there was aperiod of a good I think it was
a good year or so where where wedid the tour to Donut, as we
called it.
There are a lot of good donutplaces here in Portland, and
we're all very emotionallyinvested in snacks, so we would,
we tried different donut placesfor, every couple meetings.
Russel (29:54):
Every week you just went to a, a new donut shop for your
meeting?
Sarah (29:57):
Yeah.
Or, you know, I'd just go, gopick up like a half dozen and,
and we'd all cut out littlepieces and, and have a little
sampling taste testing.
Russel (30:06):
I love this.
I definitely am a big fan ofremote work, but there are
little nuggets like you know,were fun.
I think we did somethingsimilar.
We did new food Friday.
We had to go to a restaurantthat nobody, most people, I
guess you could say, hadn't beento before.
Just as a little fun way to justbreak, break some monotony.
Sarah (30:22):
Trying new food is, uh, always something I'm up to do.
Russel (30:26):
And probably better if it's a donut.
Sarah (30:27):
I definitely can't complain about that.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
Ever feel like your agency is trying to help
everyone but struggling to helpitself?
Welcome to an agency storypodcast.
I'm your host Russell.
In this episode, we explore whathappens when you lead with
heart, serve with boundaries,and still struggle to find time
for your own voice.
I'm joined by Sarah Giffrow,founder of Upswept Creative, a
(01:01):
Portland based agency that'sjust as passionate about social
equity as they are about webdesign and digital storytelling.
From building websites innotepad to becoming a voice for
social impact and inclusivity inmarketing, Sarah's story is as
rich as it is real.
We dive into the unique tensionmany agency owners face doing
great work for others whileneglecting their own brand.
(01:22):
Along the way, Sarah shares howshe transformed a layoff into a
launchpad, why there's more toher niche than she gives herself
credit for, and what it means toput wealth in the hands of
compassionate people.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show everyone.
I have Sarah Giffrow withUpswept Creative with us here
today.
Thank you so much show on theshow today, Sarah.
Sarah (01:41):
Thank you for having me.
Russel (01:42):
Glad to have you.
It took us some rescheduling afew times to get here, kids and
life and, some things alongthose lines, but we're here.
Sarah (01:49):
We made it.
Russel (01:50):
We made it.
All is well that ends well.
If you don't mind, kick us offhere and tell us what Upswept
does and who you do it for?
Sarah (01:57):
We are focused on websites, social media and email
marketing.
We tend to work withservice-based businesses,
usually on the like small tomedium side, and also
non-profits.
There always seem to be a coupleof those in the mix.
Those are the main categories.
We aren't like super niched outand that's that's on purpose.
Russel (02:17):
I wanna go back in time a little bit and understand how
you got to where you're attoday.
But, what is the purpose behind,uh, intentionally not niching
down?
Sarah (02:25):
I think something that's always appealed to me, uh, in
this work is, is having, havingunique problems to solve.
I've never really wanted thework to feel like rote or
repetitive.
I want it to feel like a newjourney every time, because
ultimately, every client's gottheir own struggles that
they're, that they're goingthrough.
(02:45):
I like being able to dig into,why they do what they do and
what the roadblocks are, andfiguring out, okay, how, how can
I use my skillset to make theirlives easier and make these
goals more achievable?
Russel (02:58):
Obviously a lot of the market and talk today is moving
them more, more the direction ofmore focused positioning,
oftentimes in terms of thisparticular industry.
But I help a lot of folks dothat and I always just say,
look, there's many ways we cango about this thing.
Some routes make it easier, butsome routes really just need to
touch our creative soul or ourpassions and things like that.
There's no one way to go aboutthis and if it works for you and
(03:21):
is, is leading in the directionyou want to go, then rock on and
do it.
It sounds like you've been ableto do that.
Um, Let's see.
Let's go back and find out whatyoung Sarah, well, how, how she
came about in the world.
What were her goals, hopes anddreams?
What does she wanna do with herlife?
Sarah (03:35):
I think the answer to that question changed so many
times when, uh, when I was, uh,when I was growing up and going
through school and college andall of that.
Initially in my career I was allwebsites all the time.
That was my gateway drug to, tolike just the whole realm.
Russel (03:50):
I love that terminology.
Gateway drug.
I built websites as a gatewaydrug.
Sarah (03:55):
yeah.
You know, I mean, I was likestaying up and staying up late
in college and like, yeah, justhand coding HTML in like notepad
on a PC that I built myself.
It was very old school.
Um, I got into design throughthat and that's how I ended up
coming around to getting adegree in design, which, uh,
(04:16):
which yeah, after changing mymajor a few times.
I worked in websites for aneducational software company and
then an education focusednon-profit.
So, very much in the educationspace, but also in the nonprofit
space.
It was kind of cool to have, oneto have roots in that non in the
nonprofit space and get a lookat some of the challenges that
(04:37):
those organizations go through,particularly with funding.
But then also to be on thedesign side in, in a software
company.
I'd always been technicallyminded.
I think earlier in my career Iwas a little resistant to being
a developer, but I've embracedthat over time.
I, I like to say I'm anaccidental marketer these days
(04:58):
because the further you get intowebsites, the, the more you
gotta understand the, themarketing aspect of it.
Russel (05:04):
Isn't that the truth?
Sarah (05:05):
It's such an important piece to making it successful.
Russel (05:07):
So you went to a gateway drug as being the web tech side,
and then it sounds like you're,I don't know what's next after
gateway drug?
Your hardcore drug becamedesigned, but it sounds like you
really have that left brain,right brain thing going on as
you've developed and honed yourskillset.
Sarah (05:21):
Very much.
I went the left brain directionfor a short while.
Had a little photography sidehustle, but then, and that
connected me with, a lot of likelocal makers and yeah, more in
the small business realm.
And yeah, A lot of times Iwould, I would look those folks
up and look up their websitesand just be like, oh my gosh,
like, what they just showed meis not reflected at all in this
(05:41):
online space?
Russel (05:42):
You can't put my photos on your crappy website is what
I'm hearing you're saying underyour breath here.
But what a great intro.
Sarah (05:48):
I think that was really what, what made me want to go
out on my own and, and do my ownthing.
I just really wanted to be ableto use my skills to help the
people who were doing reallyincredible things, whether it's
through making or, or healingor, social justice work.
They're just incredible skillsets that I, I don't have, but
(06:10):
then I have skills that, thatcan support what they do.
I just wanna solve problems forpeople.
Russel (06:14):
That's all I want to do.
That's your real hardcore drugis solving problems for people.
I love that reference.
I'm curious, just kind of get anunderstanding of your, where
your risk tolerance falls,right?
Clearly you started, soundslike, go down an entrepreneurial
path with with photography andthen, uh, it seems like the
writing's on the wall and howthat really parlayed into your
official agency business.
Was that like a side hustle andthen eventually you're making
(06:35):
enough to make that leap?
Or did you just say one day I'm,I'm done with this corporate
mess and I'm just gonna startdoing my own things, and then
that beget your evolution paththat you already shared?
Sarah (06:45):
I think I was doing like the occasional project, like on
the side in a really small way.
There were some funding cuts,um, at the nonprofit as they
often are, um, and so and so,yeah, I got laid off.
Russel (06:57):
So goes the DOW, so goes the nonprofit.
Sarah (06:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got laid off and one of thenice things about Oregon is
that, um, when you're receivingunemployment benefits, they
have, um, they have like a smallbusiness assistance program.
Rather than being like, Iapplied for these jobs this
week, you can say, okay, I didthese things to develop my own
business.
That was actually a reallyhelpful tool is that I was able
(07:22):
to just put all my energytowards setting up my business.
Russel (07:26):
Okay.
I'm curious'cause I, I don'tknow that I've heard of a
program specifically like this.
Is it designed just to, hey,spend your time doing this so
you can still get unemploymentas long as you're working on,
working on a business?
Or are they actually giving youother tools, guidance and, and I
don't know if even funding orsomething like that to, to move
in that direction?
Sarah (07:43):
It's basically, you know, you, you work on your business
instead of, applying to otherjobs to, to receive your
unemployment benefits.
They at least an email with someother resources like Score and,
and a lot of those other smallbusiness resource center type of
things.
Russel (07:57):
All right.
I'm curious.
I know around here they havethe, the small business
development center.
I think it's, it's kind of afunction of SBA, I don't know if
it's tied to any unemploymentbenefits, but I'm, I'm just
curious how those programs workfor folks and, do what they're
intended to do.
I'm looking for a case study, Iguess maybe in that realm, but
sounds like at least a partialone in terms of the program
itself and, and what it helpsyour business do.
Sarah (08:18):
I was pretty committed to my vision of what I wanted to
do.
Even if that vision has changed,uh, pretty dramatically over the
years.
Russel (08:24):
As they're wont to do.
Sarah (08:25):
Oh yeah.
It worked out.
It was good to have the spaceto, to, yeah, to really think
through all of, all those earlypieces.
Instead of, you know, trying tolike cram it in after dinner on
a weeknight.
Russel (08:36):
Focus is key.
How'd you come up with the name?
Was it the same name as from theget go or what?
I love a good naming story.
Sarah (08:42):
It was just me when I started, so I was just like,
Sarah Giffrow Creative,whatever, and didn't, didn't
overthink that piece.
Then I was reminded of the factsthat people very frequently
spell or pronounce my last namewrong.
Russel (08:56):
I live this world too.
I know what you're feeling.
Sarah (08:58):
That was one factor, um, in terms of coming up with a
name.
And then also I, I came aroundto the idea that, you know, I
actually, I actually would liketo build out a team.
Some people love the solopreneurlife, but I like, I like having
some collaborators, so I wantedto give it a name.
I want it to be bigger than justmyself.
Upswept came out of the idea ofjust being really caught up in
(09:21):
the excitement of what you'redoing and what we're building
together.
That's pretty, pretty simplebut, but I liked that, I liked
that feeling.
Russel (09:30):
Love a good on point naming story as well.
Sometimes you just, you justnever know what, how a name came
up.
What year are we talking here?
What timeframe are we in?
Sarah (09:37):
I started on my own in 2011, so it was a good while
ago.
Russel (09:41):
Got some notches under the belt and some experience
there.
You mentioned earlier just thatthere was a, you know, your
vision and just what you tryingto achieve has changed a lot.
How do you just sum up what,what that, where you started to
where you're at today and, andthe key turning points in there?
Sarah (09:56):
Where I started, I mean part of, it was partly fueled by
the facts that, you know.
Once the unemployment benefit,the small business assistance
thing ran out, um, then, youknow, I would have to like
generate income.
I was definitely in that spaceof can probably do it.
If I don't know how to do ityet, I can probably figure it
out.
I feel like that's just one ofmy core beliefs.
(10:17):
I'm always like, oh, well, Idon't know how, I could probably
figure it out.
It was very just I will take thework that, that I, that pays,
that I'm capable of doing.
It was all over the place.
There are websites.
I still took photos for a while.
I designed logos, flyers.
it was just kind of all over themap.
You over time when you like arejust kind of taking whatever
(10:38):
comes through the door, you sortof figure out like what you
really want to be doing.
There are just certain, certaingigs you like a little better
than others.
The niching down for me was notso much about like a particular
industry as, as it was like,okay, I don't want to be
designing literally everythingin the world.
I just wanna bring it down towebsites, basically bring it
(10:59):
back to my roots.
Russel (11:00):
Which, I mean, is a form of niche, right?
To your point, it's a form ofniching.
I don't even know if there'sstereotypical niching or
whatever, but it's, it'sstarting to say no to certain
things, so you can say yes toother things.
I've always asked myself, I'mcurious, your, your thought on
this is, does everyone just needto go through that experience?
Because so many agencies do it,or they start out in their early
years and they're doingeverything for everybody and
(11:21):
they eventually whittle thatdown some more than others.
I always just ask myself is thatjust a natural order of things?
Just so we can figure out what'sbest or should we try to start
out at the gate with a lot morefocus?
Sarah (11:31):
I think it would probably be, easier at least emotionally
to have a really clear pictureof what your niche is gonna be
and what specifically you'regoing to do.
But yeah, I do feel like havinga certain amount of experience
to even determine what that is,is, is sort of necessary.
Sometimes the, the gig thatsounds really cool on the
(11:51):
outside, you get into it and youjust think like, oh my God, this
is a nightmare for, you know,one razor or another.
Maybe it's just pushing yourboundaries in a way that you
don't like, or, or maybe justmanaging particular types of
clients.
I used to do When I was inphotography, I would do events
and, and I pulled out of thatbecause,'cause yeah, it was just
(12:11):
such an incredible drain ofenergy.
I would just get home and Iwould just wanna lay down for
like a week.
Russel (12:18):
That's a good sign way to listen to that signal that
that may be, not be your, yourforte.
Sarah (12:23):
Some of those are definitely something that like
sounded really fun on theoutside, but then, but then,
yeah, like once I'd done it, oh,maybe, maybe this is not for me.
Russel (12:31):
We gotta try all the foods on the buffet.
I mean, this is, I don't know ifyou're a big buffet eater or,
this is how I approach a buffet.
I try everything and then I goin for what I really, really
want.
Maybe that's what an agencybusiness journey has to be, is
you gotta dabble in all thethings and then just like a
buffet, you get the, you end upwith the food, you know, you
like the best.
Sarah (12:48):
I'm definitely a sampler too.
That's, uh, how I end upovereating every Thanksgiving
because we do potluck withfriends and, you know, everybody
brings their A game and I'm justlike, I wanna try everything,
but I'm already so full.
Russel (13:01):
It's tough and, but it seems part and parcel.
so I, I think I'm gonna be incamp, um, you gotta, you gotta
experiment and see what fitsbest for your vision and just
explore.
I can already tell, a key themeto how you approach the world is
helping and giving back.
Was that something you were bornwith?
Is that a, been a learnedexperience for you?
Why is that so important to youand your approach in business?
Sarah (13:22):
I think that, you know, just that, that impulse to help
was, I feel like that's alwaysbeen there to some extent.
Taking care of folks, sometimesto my own detriment.
Although we've, I've also gottenbetter about that as I've gotten
older.
It's really dovetailed nicelywith a lot of the social justice
type of things that I've come tocare more about.
(13:43):
You know, as I've as I've justlearned more about how the world
works and built awareness aboutdifferent issues.
I'm involved with the, withroller derby, um, as, which is
one community which is, verywelcoming generally of, um,
queer and trans folks.
Russel (14:00):
Do you roller derby also or you just, or you just do work
with them?
Sarah (14:04):
I skated for, um, close to 10 years.
And now I'm a referee.
Russel (14:08):
Okay.
That stuff looks brutal.
I'm not gonna lie.
I've had my share of physicalcontact sports, but I don't know
that I'm cut out for, soespecially now I'm not cut out
for, roller derby.
Sorry for the segue, but that'sa very fascinating, uh, sport to
participate in.
Do you have all your arms andlimbs?
Sarah (14:24):
Yep, yep.
I managed to get through itwithout, uh, without any broken
bones.
I've actually never broken abone.
Russel (14:30):
Not even a broken bone.
You must have been the bone,bone breaker.
You must have been the one.
Sarah (14:34):
I hope not.
Nobody likes seeing that happen.
Russel (14:37):
I don't know how not everybody doesn't break a, I
mean, I haven't seen it in awhile, I guess, but I don't know
how every game that there's not10 bones broken.
Anyway, sorry, I, I got you offtrack.
You were explaining all the goodthings you were doing in the
world and I had to talk aboutbeing roller derbies.
Sarah (14:50):
I'm used to that.
I'm connected with, um, with thequeer community.
I'm involved with the, with, um,Oregon Pride of Business, which
is, uh, which is, yeah, veryLGBTQ plus focused small
business organization.
I'm also a woman in a techadjacent industry.
Cause I'm in doing websites, soI'm very aware of the issues
(15:11):
there.
I'm half Taiwanese, so a personof color.
There are a lot of these typesof issues that I, that are,
that, hit me close to home.
Hit me or the people I careabout close to home.
Russel (15:21):
That's great.
I think we had a similarapproach in our business.
Look, we, we're all techer,techies and nerdy nerds and all
that stuff, and you know, wecan't, we're not doctors, we
can't cure cancer,.
But when we're working on ahospital or just some do good
type organization, we have suchpower or empowerment, I guess
you could say to further greatcauses in the world.
So not to take that lightly, andif we can marry business and
(15:43):
making the world a better place,then I, I feel like that's,
that's winning in a nutshell.
Sarah (15:48):
I always appreciate just every opportunity we get to do
that.
Particularly with the nonprofitwork.
If I can like help someone boostthe signal for a clean water
issue.
The Columbia River is huge inour region.
Just such a resource in so manyways.
I've talked to someorganizations who, they've
literally like come in andthey're, um, and yeah, their,
(16:10):
their developments, uh, theirdevelopment consultant will come
in to a meeting with us andthey'll be like saying, yeah, so
this organization, we're they,we were talking with them about,
promoting their research.
And they're like, why don't wedo some radio ads?
He was like, told them like, Idon't think that's the space you
wanna be in anymore.
So yeah, there's, there's a lotof, There's a lot of folks who
(16:33):
are just doing really excellent,important work who just don't
know how to get the word out atall, or, or aren't able to get
the right information out to theright people.
And that's what I do basically.
Russel (16:44):
1972 called, uh, wants its radio ads back.
Again, points to how much wehave to be the experts in these
relationships, and a lot oftimes I talk about it in, you
know, in 2025, marketing is sucha complicated world, far more
complicated than it was even 10years ago, but go back 20, 25
years ago.
It's night and day.
Every day that goes by, it seemslike we have to be more and more
of the experts that guide ourclients through.
(17:06):
it Seems like you've taken thatapproach, not, not only just for
the clients themselves, but infor great causes.
Sarah (17:11):
And I think particularly with, with a lot of the being in
the social media space, um, asof recent has been, uh, pretty
interesting air quotes.
Just with a lot of the, theplatform changes at Meta the,
and the TikTok ban and yeah,people are scrambling and they
don't know what to do and are I,or just fully quitting
(17:31):
platforms.
I've been doing my best to be aresource in that regard and
think, okay, maybe before youdelete your account, if you're
just fully done with thisplatform, let's go through some
steps so you don't just abandonyour whole audience there.
Maybe let's take some of thosefolks with you.
Russel (17:48):
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
That makes total sense.
And something that it stuck outfrom, from a previous
conversation that, that stuckwith me is it sounds like this
is kind of all, underneathwhat's, uh, I think it's your
overarching goal, but you canshare otherwise of just putting
wealth in the hands ofcompassionate people.
If I were to just ask you,what's your fundamental
Sarah (18:06):
That's very much a thought that's in my mind,
particularly in more recentyears.
I've kind of gotten a bit moreradicalized.
It's actually a goal of mine forthis year to, to use our
platform our platform on socialand, and, uh, in the email
space.
Share some of the more like,more radical ideas, uh, that,
that we really care about, theissues that we really care
(18:27):
about, which.
I don't feel like we've everbeen super shy about it, but it
feels like a time to be, to belouder about it.
I feel like what I've alwaysenjoyed, working with
service-based clients too, isthat there's just, there's
always just that undercurrentof, of, that they want to use
what they know, that they wantto use their skillset to make
(18:49):
someone else's life better.
I feel like that's the throughline of everything where, maybe
a nonprofit is doing that on alarger scale, but maybe, a
therapist or, um, or a, um, ADEI consultants, you know,
they'll be doing that on like asmaller scale with like a
smaller team or even one to one.
I think I'm just trying to helppeople who wanna help other
people.
Russel (19:09):
Even that is a form of positioning, putting your,
putting a brand out there andthoughts and ideas and just
generally speaking, as long asthey're in the direction of
helping people, is a, is a greatthing.
And again, A form of positioningthat is a way other businesses
out there can think aboutpositioning.
Not always, just in the kind ofbinary sense of a industry, not
industry focus or a veryspecific service focus or not.
(19:30):
There are other ways to go aboutit, which, again, seems kind of
part and parcel to your journey.
Sarah (19:34):
And I think it is a way too of just like calling in the
kind of projects that you reallywant to be working on and the
people that you wanna be workingwith.
There have been times when I've,you know, I think I've been
approached about like marketing,like a weight loss product or
something like that.
And, and yeah, my, I'm more of abody positive human and I'm not
into the, like, toxic dietculture, and so, you know, from
(19:57):
an ethical standpoint, I, I didnot want that gig.
I think something that, It'ssomething that I recommends to,
to basically everyone I workwith or where know, if you feel
strongly about something, you,you don't necessarily need to
hide that or be shy about it,particularly as a small business
owner.
Part of what you're selling isyou know who you are and, and
(20:18):
your why.
I feel like if it matters enoughto you, it's, maybe it's worth
putting out there.
Russel (20:23):
I think in 2025, going back to that complicated world,
you've got to put the signalsout there to the folks that you
want to align with and workwith, because it's hard to find
otherwise.
It's the lighthouse toultimately find the right types
of projects.
That's a good segue.
Something that I think a lot ofagencies run into is taking the
time to focus on their ownvoice, to focus on their own,
call it marketing or justputting those ideas out there.
(20:45):
I hear it often in terms of thepainter's house is never
painted, cobbler's kid has noshoes, all those wonderful
analogies.
Where do you feel like Upsweptfits into that spectrum of
really, really great aboutfocusing on yourself and then
the opposite of?
Sarah (21:00):
It's definitely felt, definitely felt sort of cyclical
for me.
I've had my good periods and,and my not so good periods.
It was definitely difficult toget into that mindset, uh, uh,
early on.
Part of my working theory aboutwhy it is so hard to do these
things for yourself is that, Ifeel oftentimes when I'm working
with a client, I'm hearing whatthey have to say about their
(21:21):
work and why they do it.
I'm able to look at that and seethe things that are special
about it that, maybe they, theynever even thought about before.
I'm able to actually, look attheir blind spot and point at it
and be like, hey, we could workwith this.
But I can't see my own blindspots'cause it's my blind spots
so that I don't have the benefitof outside perspective working
(21:43):
for me.
It's also just a matter of time.
And, and I think everyentrepreneur like runs into that
where they, you know, there arethose things that you know you
should do for your business andthis whole struggle of like,
working in your business versus,versus working on it.
There's a point where you dohave to just like set some time
aside, block, block it out inyour calendar.
(22:04):
I actually did a really lovely,uh, quarterly planning party
with, uh, with Devin Lee, acouple times and yeah, and the
whole thing was just three hoursat the end of the prior quarter
where you would just, yeah,you'd map out these are the
things I wanna work on.
And then you would actually putit in your planning tool, put it
in your calendar.
You've got all of these layersof accountability.
That's kind of what you'relooking at doing is you gotta
(22:25):
carve out the space for it.
You can't just be throwing allof your energy at your clients
all the time.
Russel (22:30):
I mean in, in your particular case, curiosity,
'cause I, I think I hear verysimilar kind of obstacles and,
and kinda what you shared ofblind spots or maybe just not
knowing exactly where to putthat time, or time itself.
What is your bigger challenge,do you think, in that?
Sarah (22:43):
I was actually talking about this in a, in one of, a
Slack group I'm in the otherday.
Sometimes I will have an ideaand I just need it to be out
there immediately.
I'll like write up a whole emailor like set up a whole, um,
whole series of social mediaposts or something, and I'll be
like, all right, we're, we'reputting this out tomorrow
morning.
I know it probably drives myteam crazy sometimes because as
(23:06):
you know, ideally, you know, Iwould be able to do things in a
more planned out way so that wearen't having to adjust at the
last minute.
I feel like I tend to getinspired, like just, just late
enough where it's reallyunreasonable to like do it in
that timeframe, but I'm like, Ijust, I gotta do it.
I gotta do it.
Stepping back from that and, anddoing something that's more
(23:30):
mapped out and planned formyself, I think is a, is a
challenge that I bump upagainst.
Russel (23:35):
That's funny.
I think I had someone that wastalking about that similar in a
previous episode.
They tried to put themselveslike, hey, when I get hit with
the idea, just, just takeaction, right?
Otherwise it'll either forget itor it'll just go to the back
burner.
There is some value in that, butmaybe if we can just have a
floor of consistency, uh, aswell.
One of the things I feel like Isee a lot is that we don't
(23:56):
really give that consistency ora particular effort enough time,
and then if we start to not feellike things are working or we
don't really see the lineup tobeing successful, then it's easy
to dump back in kind of thedefault of what it sounds like
you shared of client work.
I know I'm getting paid fairthere.
I know there's a good outcomethere.
So let's, Let's go do thatinstead because I started down
(24:16):
this path over here and it just,just didn't seem to produce a
lot.
I feel like, if we go back tothe cobbler's kid example, if
the cobbler was certain thattheir shoes were very valuable,
that I think they would givethem to their kid first.
Or they would make the time tomake sure to make shoes for
their kid.
But maybe that's the gapsometimes is we're not exactly,
goes back to maybe the blindspot, we're not sure what to
(24:38):
work on most to even bemotivated to carve out the time
to focus on it.
Um, but I, I was just curious ifdoes, how does that, does that
apply to your own journey?
You can push back and say, well,no, I don't think that's it for
me.
Sarah (24:49):
Yeah.
Focus is definitely, I thinkthat's a pretty common struggle
too.
It certainly is for me.
I'm an ADHD human, so, which Ithink, you know, probably
contributed to the whole, yeah,sure.
I will do all of the work thatyou will throw at me like
earlier in my career.
My brain really likes to shiftgears, so knowing what to focus
(25:09):
on and, and also what my brainis willing to focus on in a
given moment.
Those two things can be a prettysnarly issue.
Russel (25:17):
I heard a great term with a client the other day that
they called Spicy Brain, thatthey had, they categorized
themselves.
I thought that was a prettyfunny, funny term.
But yeah, we have to, we have towork within the confines of
talents and abilities and, andnatural disposition.
I think a lot of times when Italk with folks, the first place
to start is there's probably acertain amount of things that
are on your list that youshouldn't be doing, so that it's
(25:38):
really, can we, can we get ridof some of that scar tissue
buildup in terms of how yourtime's being spent so we, we can
give some space to some of theseother things.
Then it's the hard work of, allright.
Take the time to come up with agood strategy that we, you can
get behind, versus just maybegoing after a specific task or
just a few things to do that mayor may not bear fruit.
And then that kind of leads thefall off effect.
(25:59):
But, but, uh, thank you forbeing so open about your, your
journey about painting your ownhouse.
Sarah (26:04):
Thank you.
Russel (26:05):
To wrap things up, what does, what does the future hold?
What's your 10 year plan, ifthis was a job interview?
Sarah (26:10):
Definitely, I mean, keep doing what we're doing.
Grow the team out a bit more.
We're looking at, ways to, uh,maybe shift more away from
individual services and so thatwe can look more holistically at
the different components oftheir online marketing.
What's happening on theirwebsite, what's happening on
(26:30):
their social, what's happeningwith their email, because that's
coming back to the what to evenfocus on thing.
You can throw all the money youwant at your social media, but
if people are getting to yourwebsite and being like what do I
even do?
How do I buy a thing from you?
All that energy you're dumpinginto social media isn't really
solving the problem.
I think finding new ways to, tolook for those, those little
holes and those unseen issuesthat they might not, uh, that
(26:52):
they might not be aware of.
That's where my brain is for thenext while.
Russel (26:55):
It sounds like a worthwhile cause and, and to the
point in 2025, it's hard to havea one trick pony marketing
strategy.
Even if we have a specializedservice, we have to think about
the entire ecosystem that'sinvolved in what it takes to
make a client successful intheir marketing.
Wonderful perspective.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to share that.
Last big question for you,Sarah.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Sarah (27:16):
I don't think it was something I saw myself doing
until I started doing it.
I think it was that photographyside hustle.
where, you know, like I was justtaking photos as for fun, um,
and then sort of looking aroundat like, you know, other local
photographers work and I cantake pictures as good as that.
Why don't I just, you know, seeif people will pay me for it?
(27:36):
But it was a why not sort ofthing.
Being willing to take thatchance on yourself, I think is
all you really, all you reallyneed.
And then, yeah, just thetenacity to navigate the journey
that comes after it.
Russel (27:47):
You gotta be born to jump outta the plane, but then
you gotta be made to, to get tothe ground safely.
Or sometimes you gotta getpushed outta the plane.
That's another way that I guessyou don't have to be born.
You can get pushed outta theairplane.
If people wanna know more aboutUpswept Creative and your
journey, where can they go?
Sarah (28:01):
We're at upsweptcreative.com.
At least for the moment, we'restill on Facebook and Instagram.
We're starting to dip our toeinto Bluesky.
We're on LinkedIn.
We've got a weekly email seriescalled Social Media Snack Break
where we dispense little snacksized, bits of info tactics
about social media for folks whoare running small businesses and
(28:24):
feeling overwhelmed about it.
That comes out every Tuesday.
Russel (28:27):
See that's a form of doing your own marketing.
Give yourself more credit than,where credits due.
You're painting your house.
Maybe not all the rooms, butyou're painting your house.
Wonderful journey.
Appreciate you taking the timeto share that from gateway drugs
to really just your focus onmaking the world a better place.
Can't go wrong with that.
Thank you so much for forsharing that all with us today.
Sarah (28:46):
Thank you so much for, for listening.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(29:08):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
It's become less of a thing, um, since COVID, but pre
(29:31):
COVID, we would do, we wouldhave our, uh, weekly team
meetings and, and there was aperiod of a good I think it was
a good year or so where where wedid the tour to Donut, as we
called it.
There are a lot of good donutplaces here in Portland, and
we're all very emotionallyinvested in snacks, so we would,
we tried different donut placesfor, every couple meetings.
Russel (29:54):
Every week you just went to a, a new donut shop for your
meeting?
Sarah (29:57):
Yeah.
Or, you know, I'd just go, gopick up like a half dozen and,
and we'd all cut out littlepieces and, and have a little
sampling taste testing.
Russel (30:06):
I love this.
I definitely am a big fan ofremote work, but there are
little nuggets like you know,were fun.
I think we did somethingsimilar.
We did new food Friday.
We had to go to a restaurantthat nobody, most people, I
guess you could say, hadn't beento before.
Just as a little fun way to justbreak, break some monotony.
Sarah (30:22):
Trying new food is, uh, always something I'm up to do.
Russel (30:26):
And probably better if it's a donut.
Sarah (30:27):
I definitely can't complain about that.
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