May 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Company: Musimack Marketing
Guests: Stacey McCormack
Year Started: 2013
Employees: 1-10
The Ballad of the Reluctant Owner
What if the path to entrepreneurship wasn’t planned, but pushed?
In this episode, Stacey McCormack, founder of Musimack Marketing, shares how a layoff, a government grant, and a deep desire to help others led her from corporate life to agency ownership. If you’ve ever felt uncertain about your journey, Stacey’s story will remind you that reluctance doesn’t mean you're not ready.
Key Takeaways
- Why reluctance might be a sign you’re on the right path
- The underrated power of staying in your lane when working within a partnership
- How AI is reshaping content creation without replacing the human touch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What if an entrepreneur story didn't start with
ambition, but with resistance.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast.
I'm your host Russel.
In this episode, we meet StaceyMcCormack, founder of Musimack
Marketing, who never planned torun a business until the
universe had other ideas.
From getting laid off after 20years in traditional media to
becoming an agency owner, prettymuch by accident, Stacey shares
(01:04):
how fear, grit, and a surprisegovernment grant turned
reluctance into a full fledgedagency.
You'll hear how she and herhusband navigate the
complexities of theirrelationship and business, why
reluctance can sometimes be thebest foundation for leadership,
and how clarity and adaptabilitykeeps them ahead in a fast
changing landscape.
If you've ever felt uncertainabout your path or needed
(01:25):
permission to start messy, thisis the story for you.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Stacey McCormack withMusimack Marketing with us here
today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Stacey.
Stacey (01:36):
Thanks Russel.
Russel (01:37):
As I hear it, you're coming from the great city and
state of Portland, Oregon.
Let's get a hot pro tip foranyone coming to Portland ever
best place to eat, where should,where do they have to go if
they're coming to Portland?
Stacey (01:48):
Oh gosh.
I like to take visitors to thePortland City Grill.
It's up on the 30th floor of abig high rise downtown, and
they've got an amazing view, a360 degree view of the city, all
of our, our, uh, rivers that,that we're known for.
We're known for the WillametteRiver, I guess The Bridges is
what I should say.
We're known for all of ourbridges that cross the
(02:10):
Willamette River, which divideour city.
But the, the view from thePortland City Grill is, uh,
pretty unbeatable.
Russel (02:17):
All right.
We're already getting pro tips,um, just a few seconds in today.
I don't know if every city,'cause Dallas has a similar
thing.
They call it Reunion Tower andit's a big ball on top of a big
tower and, and it's got the, Ithink, I think it rotates.
I've actually never been.
I don't know, does every cityhave this?
Call in, or write.
Send me an email, folks.
Tell me if your city does ordoes not have a major city.
You don't have to do every smalltown, but if, uh, if you've got
(02:38):
this big 360 tower situation.
Let's get to Musimack Marketing.
I want to get back into some ofyour background.
Before there, just kick us off,what does Musimack Marketing do
and who you do it for?
Stacey (02:48):
Sure.
We're a full service digitalmarketing agency.
We do everything from websitedesign and development, uh,
social media marketing, SEOstrategy, and digital
advertising would be our fourcore pillars.
We primarily work with, uh,small to medium businesses.
Typically business is up toabout a hundred employees,
(03:10):
somewhere in that range.
We're expanding all the time, sowe're really excited to be
working with larger businesses,uh, more high profile
businesses.
We continue to grow, so been funfor us.
Russel (03:22):
It's really cool to drive down the highway and see
the billboards and or signs ofthe businesses you work on.
I want to hear more about allthat amazing work, but let's
talk about young Stacey.
What were her goals, hopes anddreams?
Where was she headed with herlife?
Take us back as far as would beexciting.
Stacey (03:38):
Sure.
I guess going back to highschool, I had decided that I was
gonna work in radio and that wasgoing to be my career.
I was going to be an on-airpersonality and I was gonna do
the whole radio thing.
You start in a small market andyou continue to grow into bigger
and larger markets.
Russel (03:54):
I'm just curious, like why was that exciting for you?
Was there a moment or somethinglike that or what, what was the
appeal for that?
Stacey (04:00):
That goes back to just being a really big fan of music
and I wanted to figure out a waythat I could be somehow at least
tangent, tangentially related tothe music industry.
I'm not a performer.
I love to sing, but I don'tclaim any talent.
I don't play any instruments.
I don't write music, but I am abig fan of music and to me, that
(04:22):
was a reasonable path to beconnected to the music industry.
When I went to college, I workedat the college radio station.
I was in the communicationsprogram at Oregon State and, uh,
got a job at a, a commercialradio station off campus.
I thought that would be mycareer.
(04:42):
And I, and I enjoyed it and Iwas really grateful for that
experience.
Worked full-time at a radiostation while I was going to
school full-time, and it was aperfect situation.
Never really felt like I had areal job.
It was really fun to go to workevery day.
Russel (04:55):
That's the best kind of job to have, right?
Stacey (04:57):
It really was fantastic.
I'm so grateful for that time,but at, at some point I
realized, okay, so I'm gettingclose to graduating, getting my
degree and there's probably moreto life than just being a radio
dj.
As much fun as it, as, as itwas.
From there I started looking atother opportunities, and when I
(05:18):
graduated I had the opportunityto move to Nashville and work on
Music Row and work on promotingartists.
We were a publicity agency andso we were promoting artists.
Russel (05:30):
Any cool artists you can name drop here?
Stacey (05:32):
Honestly nobody that you've ever heard of.
That was part of the struggle.
Russel (05:36):
Okay.
That can be telling.
Stacey (05:37):
Moving on from there, I ended up moving back home to the
Portland area and, um, ended upin radio and, uh, but not on the
air.
I'd been on the air throughcollege, but this time around I
was in the sales department, theadvertising department and
working with local businessesabout their marketing and
(05:58):
helping them to be morestrategic, really dialing down
their target audience, figuringout what's gonna be their core
message, how to create impact,how to be more competitive.
All those things.
I stayed in traditional mediafor about 20 years.
Started in, in radioadvertising, moved into cable
TV, moved into broadcast TV,eventually landing at our
(06:20):
regional newspaper here, theOregonian.
All along the way, consistentlyworking with local businesses,
and that's really all I've everdone in, in some capacity.
So About 11 years ago, got laidoff from the newspaper.
Big shocker.
Russel (06:37):
I mean, was this,'cause I, if I think about it, I know
the news has had struggles for along time, but you know, the 10,
15 years ago is when the newsreally started to have its
struggles.
I'm guessing that was thewriting on the wall and you were
the early victim of that.
Stacey (06:49):
We had many, many rounds of layoffs.
I was just, happened to be partof one of the rounds of layoffs.
About a hundred people got laidoff the same day I did.
At that point I thought, okay,so I've done everything I can do
in traditional media.
I know how to work with clients.
I know a lot about marketing andadvertising, so it just was a
(07:09):
reasonable transition to headout on my own.
I just thought, okay, theworld's moving digital.
It's time to move on from thetraditional media and really
think about digital marketingand, and what's that gonna mean
for local clients.
I'd had some exposure to it inmy media career leading up to
that point.
I think the, the places I'd beendidn't put enough emphasis on
(07:32):
online and what that was gonnamean to their business.
Really took the focus of, of howdo I start helping people in a,
in a more digital type of aplatform in a more modern way.
That was really exciting to mebecause with digital marketing
there, there's a few differentbenefits from where I had been
previously.
With digital marketing you can,you can really help people at
(07:54):
all different price points interms of their advertising
budget.
Even 20 years ago in radio, ifyou didn't have at least$3,000 a
month to invest, we reallycouldn't help you and we'd send
you on your way.
That's not true with digitalmarketing.
There's so much you can do atall price points and to actually
really help people.
The other thing that I was soexcited about is that everything
(08:18):
is tracked in such detail thatyou know exactly where every
penny of your marketinginvestment is going.
And that was never true in radioand TV and newspaper.
The whole sales pitch isbasically, trust me, and we're
gonna hope for the best withyour advertising investment.
Where with digital marketing,Google ads, Facebook ads, I can
(08:39):
tell you exactly how many peoplesaw your ad, how many
conversions you made, what wasyour return on investment.
Very detailed metrics to supportwhat we are doing, what we're
recommending, what, why we'remaking this strategy for you.
That was an exciting time for methat this whole new world opened
up in digital marketing based onwhere I'd come from.
Russel (09:02):
Night and day worlds there.
As you're kind of alluding toand as we're ending 2024, early
2025, that this whole, yeah.
Trust me, it will work, uh,isn't, isn't the sell that it
maybe used to be.
I'm curious, I gotta almostthink it's, this has gotta be
climbing up there as one of themore prominent reasons someone
actually jumps off and starts anagency, of getting laid off as
(09:23):
being the catalyst for, forsomeone going and doing their
own thing.
With that thought in mind, Imean, did you ever think you
were gonna end up in owning yourown business someday, or was it
just getting kicked off theboat?
Stacey (09:32):
Absolutely not.
I was the most reluctantbusiness owner ever.
It's a weird thing, and I saythat the universe kind of pushed
me in this direction to be anentrepreneur, to be a CEO.
I never dreamed, uh, anything.
I would sit next to people in,in my corporate office, yeah,
I'm gonna save up my money andstart my own business one day.
(09:55):
I had always been a salariedemployee.
I just wanted that security.
That's all I ever asked for inlife, and, and to be on my own
and to never know exactly wherethe next penny's gonna come
from.
That was hard.
That was the hardest part ofthat transition.
Russel (10:09):
A lot of people will say here too, that like.
you know, look, I just don'twanna ever be in that position
again, that someone can takethat security away from me.
But, you know, and obviously,and just hearing how you're
talking about it, right?
You had a very futuristicapproach in, in kind of leaving
this old world behind and cominginto the world of digital
marketing.
Why was your core decision like,no, I'm, I'm gonna go do this on
my own?
Stacey (10:28):
I feel like I came into this kicking and screaming.
When I first got laid off, ittook me several months to figure
out, am I applying for a newjob?
Am I gonna go out on my own?
Things just started happeningaround me that I just couldn't
ignore.
At one point I, I, having beenon unemployment and you get
(10:49):
listed on these rosters and thenyou get invited to do different
things and somehow I, I stilldon't fully understand how it
happened.
I got selected for a grant from,it was through the Oregon
Unemployment Department fromhaving been laid off, and they'd
reached out to me and basicallysaid, we think you're a
(11:09):
candidate, a good candidate tostart your own business.
We know you've been looking forjobs, um, but we think, and, and
you haven't been very successfulin getting a new job, but we do
think that you are a goodcandidate to start your own
business for the background thatyou have and, and your skillset.
At first I was kinda like, whatare you even talking about?
Russel (11:29):
Hold on.
Now this is really curiousstuff.
Is this just something they'resending out to a lot of people
or, or are they actually doing aprocess of somehow, weeding
people out?
Stacey (11:37):
That's a really good question and I don't fully know
the answer to that.
All I know is before I barelyeven had a chance to think about
it, I got selected for a grant.
I don't believe it existsanymore, but it was this very
special grant that they said,okay, so we want you to focus on
(11:57):
building your own business, andthis grant is going to pay your
mortgage for a year while youstart to build your business.
At first, I was like, is thisreally true?
What in the heck is happeninghere?
Russel (12:11):
What scam is this?
Stacey (12:12):
But it was, it was legit.
That was a really big deal.
I just thought, okay, theuniverse is trying to tell me
something here.
That's pretty big.
And additional things like thatjust kept happening.
Eventually it was like, okay, I,I guess we're doing this.
Russel (12:26):
I've heard the term reluctant owner before, but you,
you might take the cake, right?
Stacey (12:30):
I'll wear that crown.
Russel (12:32):
Kicking and screaming, and here you are.
But I'm glad you eventuallylistened to the signs and
signals.
And then I wanted, I'm verycurious, right, in this path of
everything you were leavingbehind this old world and I'm
going to this world of digital.
I mean, Do you consider yourselfa futurist or just why was that
so really just ideas solidifiedin your mind and important as
(12:53):
you branched out?
Stacey (12:53):
It just comes back to how can I most effectively help
people and how can I help peopleat all different budget levels?
How can I educate people aboutthis new, modern digital world
that we're entering in forparticularly these clients who
all they've ever known is to buynewspaper ads and radio ads, and
(13:15):
this whole digital world isscary so how do I make that less
scary for people?
Make people understand this isthe way of the future, but all
the benefits like we just talkedabout earlier, of why it's so
important to think about movinginto the digital world and what
that's gonna mean for theirbusiness and keeping them moving
(13:35):
forward with the times.
Russel (13:37):
I love it when I hear a, an amazing fundamental because I
really think success in businesscomes back to the fundamentals.
Can we get the fundamentalsright?
And this question that youasked, how can I help people?
If you're wanting to grow yourbusiness or if you're wanting to
probably succeed, that's thefirst question to ask.
It's not, how do I get moresales?
How can I better help people?
And build and create somethingthat, that gives that.
(13:57):
I can see why asking yourselfthat question created all these
other signs for you as you were,in, in the early phase of your
business.
When you think about, right, Imean, clearly you said 11 years
ago, I think is when you saidyou started your business.
The world's catching up tounderstanding digital.
It's getting all the morecomplicated and crazy, but at
the same time, right, I rememberin the early days of having our
agency, it's like, you need awebsite, sir.
(14:18):
This website is this thing andright., We're way past that.
Everybody knows what a websiteis.
So how has that thought processevolved?
What is the next future or evento extent of how you can answer
that question of how do you helppeople?
Stacey (14:29):
I think soon we're gonna be having more and more
conversations of how do we useAI effectively, how do we use
that strategically in a waythat's not, ooh, we're gonna
copy and paste a blog for youout of AI?
That's not happening, but thereare really strategic ways to use
it and we're still exploringsome of those ways, but I think
(14:53):
there's going to be a lot of newways that we can really start to
learn how to use AI in ameaningful way, that's gonna
make it more efficient and morecost efficient for us to be able
to help more people and, andmore affordably.
I think that's exciting for our,our clients.
Take blogs for example.
We've always been in thebusiness of writing blogs for
(15:15):
our clients and we've had tohire writers that would write
these original blogs, and that'sexpensive for us to hire people
to do that.
Now we still, of course, havewriters on staff, but AI can
help give us really greatoutlines, let's say.
We're not gonna ask ChatGPT towrite the blog, but we can have
(15:35):
them write a really strong,clear, thorough outline, for
example, and that can reallyspeed up the process for us.
Instead of someone maybespending three or four hours on
an original blog, maybe they cancrank out something really well
done in an hour, let's say.
That's a cost savings then tothe client.
There was a lot of transitionsin marketing 11 years ago, and
(15:58):
now we're starting a whole newwave of new transitions and just
holding on for the ride.
But yeah, trying to appreciateall the changes that are going
on, not be afraid of them butembrace them, is a big part of
it.
Russel (16:09):
AI is certainly the hot topic of agencies today and all
the same question.
How do we, How do we keep ourstrength and strategy in the
human element of this, but alsohow do we leverage this as a
tool for efficiency andkick-starting, if you will.
I'm curious, because I'm not outin the world selling agency
services anymore.
What is the general consumerclient coming to the table with?
Are they expecting AIincorporated into the work
(16:32):
that's being done?
Are they asking a lot of toughquestions about this?
What does that look like fromthe, the prospect?
Stacey (16:37):
They're not yet, honestly.
Nobody's really asked me, areyou just going to use AI to
write my content?
It's interesting that you askedthat because it really hasn't
been a conversation.
I think some, a little bit ofwhat's happening is clients will
come and say, I've got mycontent already for you.
Let's start building the websiteand I'm usually like, okay, hold
(16:58):
on.
Take a deep breath.
Let's take a look and see whatyou've got.
A lot of times it's just comestraight from ChatGPT, and I'm
just like, okay, let us, let'swork through that.
This is great as an outline, asthe bones and the skeleton of,
of what you're trying toaccomplish here.
Let us work with that and makeit sound like an actual human
wrote it.
In some ways, yes, we have someclients that are a little bit
(17:21):
over excited about AI, but it'sinteresting times.
Russel (17:25):
For as smart as it is a dumb tool too.
Just in case anybody hasn'tfigured this out on their own
yet.
It gets stuff wrong all thetime, by the way.
It is funny.
Even in a marketing sense, I wascollaborating with someone on
how do we leverage some AI to,to write some page titles and
stuff?
It would spit out page titles,but then they'd be like, 300 and
400 characters long.
I was like, hey, ChatGPT, don'tyou think this is long?
Oh yeah, it is this long.
(17:45):
Let me condense this down.
If you didn't know right, youwould think, well, that's my
page title.
I'm gonna throw that in there.
Silly ChatGPT.
Stacey (17:52):
And that's a skill too that, that we're learning.
How do you write those prompts?
How do you write reallyeffective prompts for ChatGPT so
that it can generate the rightanswers?
You said, with page titles,okay, I need you to write me a
page title that's about thismany characters or this many
words, it's gonna be six words,whatever it is.
Be very specific.
(18:13):
I need an elevator pitch that is750 characters that's gonna fit
on my Google business profile,that kind of thing.
Russel (18:20):
Maybe that's the when, when folks are gonna come say
this, right?
It should be cheaper'causeyou're using AI.
Well, we can give these storiesof like, let me tell you all the
times AI is wrong and why westill need a lot of human
oversight.
This is again, another tool toleverage efficiency, but the,
the world of strategy's gottenall the more harder so that's
where we're gonna put our effortanyway.
Stacey (18:38):
I will say that the one area where, where AI has been
actually really legitimatelyhelpful is in coding websites.
We build in WordPress and so wedon't have to do a lot of coding
day to day, but when we do,because if we have some really
complex functionality that we'retrying to accomplish, it has
been really good to speed upour, our coding for our
(19:00):
developers.
That's been huge.
That's actually been really hugefor us.
Russel (19:04):
I use it for Excel a lot.
It's like, all right, I knowwhat I want to create.
Can you give me the templateformula for this pivot table in
Excel and with these variables?
Not that I couldn't figure outand sit on down and figure it on
my own, but yeah, it just, justmakes it go faster and less,
less holes in the wall from myhead getting beat into it.
But, uh, I heard recently thatyou've got to, or may, maybe not
recently even at this point,but, uh, you brought your
(19:25):
husband into the business.
What was that process like?
Was that a goal?
Did he come kicking andscreaming?
Give us the details on that.
Stacey (19:31):
Yeah, so about, well, okay, so we, we had actually met
in radio, in the corporatemarket, marketing department.
We both come from very strongmarketing backgrounds and that's
something that I think reallysets us apart from your typical
web design agency is that theowners come from marketing, and
(19:54):
I think it's that marketingstrategy that really sets us
apart.
You could be a great webdeveloper and you're the best
coder in the world, but if youdon't truly understand marketing
strategy and SEO, getting themessaging right, understanding
usability, there's, there's awhole lot that goes into
building a strong and effectivewebsite.
(20:14):
We have both come from marketingand my side of the marketing was
more towards the messaging,getting, getting those headlines
right.
Being able to speak to thattarget audience in just the
right way.
His background was moretechnical.
He's got a long background inweb design, in graphic design.
(20:35):
so very complimentary skills towhat I do.
I was about four years into thebusiness, I was primarily doing
social media.
I'd never been a well, webdeveloper myself, um, but as I
was working with clients ontheir social media and their,
their online presence, theywould ask, oh, hey, can you
build me a website?
(20:55):
I thought, well.
I can't, but David can on hisfree time, on evenings and
weekends when he is not at hisregular day job.
Eventually it just got to thepoint where he's like, I can't
have two jobs anymore, and so itjust made sense.
It was very organic.
It's not something that wereally ever planned out.
I think there was a part of himthat secretly was always trying
(21:18):
to figure out a way of how hecould join the company.
It just happened that it, I justended up really needing him.
He brought this whole otherelement to the business, this
whole new skillset.
Between the two of us, um, Ithink we really, I, we're a
force of nature based on ourcomplimentary skills and being
able to bring all of the mostimportant key elements to a
(21:40):
project.
Again, all the while, throughthe lens of marketing, because
not all web developers aremarketers.
Russel (21:48):
Isn't that right?
I think I've talked about this alot with folks maybe on the show
before of, right, marketing'sgotten so more complicated.
Just be an expert at marketingis, is probably, or you need a
PhD to have that these days thatwe have got all these mediums
and mechanisms and tools that,um, no wonder we're so niche
because it's just so hard to begood at all of'em.
I could see this one plus oneequals three, you know, approach
(22:09):
in bringing your husband intobeing able to help folks.
What's it been like?
And maybe not on the clientside, but, uh, how has that been
in your relationship and how doyou guys navigate that part of
things?
Stacey (22:18):
Good days and bad days.
Ultimately at the end of the dayit's been a good thing and we
both, I think what, what reallykeeps us going and always
looking forward is we recognizethat we each need each other in
this business for it tofunction.
I absolutely depend on him forhis talents, and he absolutely
depends on me for mine.
(22:40):
Mine is the messaging, thecontent strategy and sales.
I am the sales director and sothat's, that's a big part of it
that he wants no part of.
Even on the tough days, at theend of the day, we really
appreciate and acknowledge whatthe other one brings to the
table.
Sure we're gonna havedisagreements and not always,
(23:01):
um, come up with the sameanswers to every situation.
But, um, ultimately we respecteach other's, um, opinions and
actually, one thing I learnedfrom another, some colleagues of
ours that are another husbandand wife agency, and how they
really figured out, you know,what's my lane?
What are the things that I'm incharge of?
(23:22):
And I think we've done a reallygood job of that.
Like in sales, for example.
Ultimately I will decide ourpricing.
Now that doesn't mean I won'thave a discussion with him and
talk through, okay, we're gonnado this great big new project
that we've never done before.
You're gonna have to estimate onthe production side what that's
going to entail, like how manyhours, what kinds of other
(23:43):
expenses might be involved.
I'm gonna need some feedbackbefore I determine our final
pricing.
But ultimately, at the end ofthe day, I, I decide the pricing
and, and he's totally fine withthat.
Then likewise, when it comes tothe more technical side of
things, any sort of softwarethat we're buying, anything, uh,
technical equipment, anythinglike that, I defer to him.
(24:04):
I'm like, you know what?
That's all you, you, you figureit out.
Do what you think is best.
We've tried really hard to, toset things up that way where,
okay, this is your lane.
You get to make that finaldecision.
It gets a little bit tricky,things like hiring and firing,
because those are, are, thoseare 50/50 and we do those
together.
So far we've, we've mostly beenon the same page, but every once
(24:26):
in a while there's those fewsituations that come up that
don't really fall in either ofour lanes and we just have to
figure it out.
But yeah, ultimately it's, it'sworked out well for us.
Russel (24:37):
Good.
Well, that's always good tohear.
It seems like one of thosethings it can strengthen or it
can go the other direction.
Glad to hear you're on the, onthe positive side.
I love that, you know, stayingin your lane and right, that can
be whether, whether you'remarried to your business partner
or not, just how important it isto really be specific and
intentional about what the laneis.
When you come together and whenyou've, when you have your own
(24:57):
kind of autonomy and, uh,authority or however you wanna
look at that.
But having that communicationand really, uh, coming to terms
on what that looks like, I cansee where that has been
effective.
I'm always curious, do you havelike a, it's not, it's not weird
if it works like, any hacks thatlike you've just had to put on
place like, we will not talkabout business at the dinner
table or just anything likethat, that's also made this work
for you guys?
Stacey (25:17):
No, I, as, as much as we would like to say that we try to
leave work at the office, we'venever been able to, to
accomplish that.
As far as like the secret sauceof how it works, um, I mean,
other than, yeah, other thanstay in your lane.
I'm not sure that I have the,the magical answer for that.
Russel (25:35):
Yeah, I was just looking for like the little hack or
whatever, it sounds like you'vejust made it work through a
great relationship,transparency, communication.
and, When you think about thefuture, what are you, what are
you trying to create?
Whatcha trying to build here?
Stacey (25:47):
Continue to grow with innovation and technology, and
that is just changing all thetime in terms of the specific
types of website builders.
We build in WordPress, butthere's all sorts of different
builders that you can, uh, usewith that.
We're constantly trying out newbuilders.
(26:08):
We're big fans of the BricksBuilder right now in WordPress.
We're constantly having to learnnew builders and because they're
just better and they're morecustomizable and they run
quicker for the end user.
They have better security.
They, uh, just have betterflexibility in what we're able
(26:28):
to do.
Really staying on top of whatare some new options for us?
What are some new ways that wecan embrace technology and be
more efficient with what we do?
Just constantly learning all thetime.
It's like just when we get usedto, uh, we had used the Avada
builder for a long time inWordPress, and we loved it, and
we thought it was the greatestthing.
(26:49):
Well, we've had to evolve and itwas the best at the time.
But we've had several otherbuilders since then.
At the moment, Bricks is, seemsto be one of the top end
solutions and we're all stilllearning it and we're all
teaching each other.
Oh, I just learned this today.
Oh, I just learned this.
There's been a lot of that.
Just embracing technology,trying to be more efficient in
(27:13):
everything that we do is a bigfocus for us.
Russel (27:15):
Especially con, our conversation earlier, AI tools
are just moving a mile a minuteand, and it's like every day
there's a new leader in, inwhat's the best language
processing tool, and then we getall these other kinda sub genres
of AI, so that alone couldprobably be a full-time job of
just keeping up what's latestand greatest with AI by itself.
What is your favorite AI toolright now?
Stacey (27:35):
We use ChatGPT, and so I know my husband's a really big
fan of Claude that he's justdiscovered particularly for
development, so he's, he'spretty excited about that one.
He's really liking it for codingand development and it's helped
him be able to create somereally complex e-commerce
(27:55):
solutions that we're workingthrough.
We've actually got a couple ofwebsites right now with, we call
'em Build a Bear, um, which is atype of, it's just sort of our
internal name that we've givenit, which means it's very, uh,
very complex e-commerce.
So if someone's buying thisproduct, there's a lot of
contingencies.
First you choose your color, sothen based on your color, now
(28:17):
you have these options.
Okay, so after that, now youhave these options and it's,
it's very complex.
Russel (28:24):
Awesome.
I'm not a developer, but I'lltake his word for it.
Last big question for you then,Stacey.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Stacey (28:30):
I can only speak for myself, and I'll say that I was
made, if not forced into it.
Russel (28:36):
I would agree with that.
Maybe that needs to be a thirdoption when I ask this question,
are entrepreneurs born, made, orforced?
Stacey (28:42):
I think it's different for everybody.
I do believe there are peoplethat are born to be
entrepreneurs.
I don't think that was me.
I've had to grow into the role,but very happy how it's, how
it's ended up.
Russel (28:53):
If people wanna know more about Musimack Marketing,
where can they go?
Stacey (28:56):
Helpmeshineonline.com.
Russel (28:59):
Oh, okay.
Unexpected URL there.
Dropping that little nugget.
That is easy.
Helpmeshineonline.com.
Thank you so much, Stacey, fortaking the time to share your
journey today.
The highs and lows, the, thetips to making it all work with
your husband, how we use thiscrazy thing like AI technology.
So many wonderful nuggets tomunch on, and again, really
appreciate you taking the timeto share it.
Stacey (29:19):
Thanks Russel.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(29:39):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
One thing that happened to us very early on, and I'm
(30:02):
trying to think back if we evenactually had a sales contract at
that time, and maybe that wasthe impetus to even get that
going.
We had a client who, he was a,he was a young guy trying to
start this new business.
He hadn't really thought throughhis business very well.
He was a referral and so I, Itrusted that, that he was legit.
He had us build a website forhim and he had a drone business,
(30:27):
and this is when drones werestill pretty darn new.
A lot of people didn't reallyfully know what they were and
why you would need them, so hewas doing like drone video kinds
of projects was, was hisbusiness.
It should have been a red flagto us as he was explaining that
he had spent like his whole lifesavings buying this$1,500 drone.
(30:48):
And anyway, What ended uphappening was we built this
website and he loved it.
He was super happy with it.
As we were getting ready tocollect the final payment right
before we launched, he's like,yeah, you know, I decided I'm
just not gonna do this businessanymore.
I am like, okay.
Obviously we can't launch thesite, um, without, you know, the
(31:11):
final payment.
He's like, oh yeah, yeah, that'sfine.
Just don't launch the site.
He didn't make the finalpayment.
I think what happened wassomething happened to his drone,
it crashed, or it needed a newpart, or it needed, or he lost
it, or who knows what.
I think something happened tothat drone and he couldn't
afford to replace it, is my bestassumption.
That he didn't, you know, thinkall that through.
(31:31):
We built this whole website thatwe didn't get to collect the
final payment on.
I think we did have some kind ofan agreement, probably not the,
the level of contracts that wehave now.
I think we had something inplace, but he didn't have any
money.
It wouldn't have made, like, howare we gonna go after this guy?
We just had to eat it and let itgo.
But that was like a realeye-opener.
What in the world just happenedhere?
Russel (31:51):
All contracts, all need for contracts and, and probably
even rules in the world.
It makes me think of, I was inAir Force, air traffic control,
and pretty much half the thingsI had to say as an air traffic
controller was because somebodyhad made a mistake prior to
that.
To this point, little fun factin the world of air traffic
control, when you're telling aplane to land, you have to say
check wheels down.
You can imagine why that is nowa rule in, uh, air traffic
(32:13):
control language, um, to remindan airplane pilot to check that
their wheels are down, um,because a plane is in fact
landed.
Anyway, we can only live andlearn.
That's all that to say.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What if an entrepreneur story didn't start with
ambition, but with resistance.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast.
I'm your host Russel.
In this episode, we meet StaceyMcCormack, founder of Musimack
Marketing, who never planned torun a business until the
universe had other ideas.
From getting laid off after 20years in traditional media to
becoming an agency owner, prettymuch by accident, Stacey shares
(01:04):
how fear, grit, and a surprisegovernment grant turned
reluctance into a full fledgedagency.
You'll hear how she and herhusband navigate the
complexities of theirrelationship and business, why
reluctance can sometimes be thebest foundation for leadership,
and how clarity and adaptabilitykeeps them ahead in a fast
changing landscape.
If you've ever felt uncertainabout your path or needed
(01:25):
permission to start messy, thisis the story for you.
Enjoy the story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Stacey McCormack withMusimack Marketing with us here
today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today, Stacey.
Stacey (01:36):
Thanks Russel.
Russel (01:37):
As I hear it, you're coming from the great city and
state of Portland, Oregon.
Let's get a hot pro tip foranyone coming to Portland ever
best place to eat, where should,where do they have to go if
they're coming to Portland?
Stacey (01:48):
Oh gosh.
I like to take visitors to thePortland City Grill.
It's up on the 30th floor of abig high rise downtown, and
they've got an amazing view, a360 degree view of the city, all
of our, our, uh, rivers that,that we're known for.
We're known for the WillametteRiver, I guess The Bridges is
what I should say.
We're known for all of ourbridges that cross the
(02:10):
Willamette River, which divideour city.
But the, the view from thePortland City Grill is, uh,
pretty unbeatable.
Russel (02:17):
All right.
We're already getting pro tips,um, just a few seconds in today.
I don't know if every city,'cause Dallas has a similar
thing.
They call it Reunion Tower andit's a big ball on top of a big
tower and, and it's got the, Ithink, I think it rotates.
I've actually never been.
I don't know, does every cityhave this?
Call in, or write.
Send me an email, folks.
Tell me if your city does ordoes not have a major city.
You don't have to do every smalltown, but if, uh, if you've got
(02:38):
this big 360 tower situation.
Let's get to Musimack Marketing.
I want to get back into some ofyour background.
Before there, just kick us off,what does Musimack Marketing do
and who you do it for?
Stacey (02:48):
Sure.
We're a full service digitalmarketing agency.
We do everything from websitedesign and development, uh,
social media marketing, SEOstrategy, and digital
advertising would be our fourcore pillars.
We primarily work with, uh,small to medium businesses.
Typically business is up toabout a hundred employees,
(03:10):
somewhere in that range.
We're expanding all the time, sowe're really excited to be
working with larger businesses,uh, more high profile
businesses.
We continue to grow, so been funfor us.
Russel (03:22):
It's really cool to drive down the highway and see
the billboards and or signs ofthe businesses you work on.
I want to hear more about allthat amazing work, but let's
talk about young Stacey.
What were her goals, hopes anddreams?
Where was she headed with herlife?
Take us back as far as would beexciting.
Stacey (03:38):
Sure.
I guess going back to highschool, I had decided that I was
gonna work in radio and that wasgoing to be my career.
I was going to be an on-airpersonality and I was gonna do
the whole radio thing.
You start in a small market andyou continue to grow into bigger
and larger markets.
Russel (03:54):
I'm just curious, like why was that exciting for you?
Was there a moment or somethinglike that or what, what was the
appeal for that?
Stacey (04:00):
That goes back to just being a really big fan of music
and I wanted to figure out a waythat I could be somehow at least
tangent, tangentially related tothe music industry.
I'm not a performer.
I love to sing, but I don'tclaim any talent.
I don't play any instruments.
I don't write music, but I am abig fan of music and to me, that
(04:22):
was a reasonable path to beconnected to the music industry.
When I went to college, I workedat the college radio station.
I was in the communicationsprogram at Oregon State and, uh,
got a job at a, a commercialradio station off campus.
I thought that would be mycareer.
(04:42):
And I, and I enjoyed it and Iwas really grateful for that
experience.
Worked full-time at a radiostation while I was going to
school full-time, and it was aperfect situation.
Never really felt like I had areal job.
It was really fun to go to workevery day.
Russel (04:55):
That's the best kind of job to have, right?
Stacey (04:57):
It really was fantastic.
I'm so grateful for that time,but at, at some point I
realized, okay, so I'm gettingclose to graduating, getting my
degree and there's probably moreto life than just being a radio
dj.
As much fun as it, as, as itwas.
From there I started looking atother opportunities, and when I
(05:18):
graduated I had the opportunityto move to Nashville and work on
Music Row and work on promotingartists.
We were a publicity agency andso we were promoting artists.
Russel (05:30):
Any cool artists you can name drop here?
Stacey (05:32):
Honestly nobody that you've ever heard of.
That was part of the struggle.
Russel (05:36):
Okay.
That can be telling.
Stacey (05:37):
Moving on from there, I ended up moving back home to the
Portland area and, um, ended upin radio and, uh, but not on the
air.
I'd been on the air throughcollege, but this time around I
was in the sales department, theadvertising department and
working with local businessesabout their marketing and
(05:58):
helping them to be morestrategic, really dialing down
their target audience, figuringout what's gonna be their core
message, how to create impact,how to be more competitive.
All those things.
I stayed in traditional mediafor about 20 years.
Started in, in radioadvertising, moved into cable
TV, moved into broadcast TV,eventually landing at our
(06:20):
regional newspaper here, theOregonian.
All along the way, consistentlyworking with local businesses,
and that's really all I've everdone in, in some capacity.
So About 11 years ago, got laidoff from the newspaper.
Big shocker.
Russel (06:37):
I mean, was this,'cause I, if I think about it, I know
the news has had struggles for along time, but you know, the 10,
15 years ago is when the newsreally started to have its
struggles.
I'm guessing that was thewriting on the wall and you were
the early victim of that.
Stacey (06:49):
We had many, many rounds of layoffs.
I was just, happened to be partof one of the rounds of layoffs.
About a hundred people got laidoff the same day I did.
At that point I thought, okay,so I've done everything I can do
in traditional media.
I know how to work with clients.
I know a lot about marketing andadvertising, so it just was a
(07:09):
reasonable transition to headout on my own.
I just thought, okay, theworld's moving digital.
It's time to move on from thetraditional media and really
think about digital marketingand, and what's that gonna mean
for local clients.
I'd had some exposure to it inmy media career leading up to
that point.
I think the, the places I'd beendidn't put enough emphasis on
(07:32):
online and what that was gonnamean to their business.
Really took the focus of, of howdo I start helping people in a,
in a more digital type of aplatform in a more modern way.
That was really exciting to mebecause with digital marketing
there, there's a few differentbenefits from where I had been
previously.
With digital marketing you can,you can really help people at
(07:54):
all different price points interms of their advertising
budget.
Even 20 years ago in radio, ifyou didn't have at least$3,000 a
month to invest, we reallycouldn't help you and we'd send
you on your way.
That's not true with digitalmarketing.
There's so much you can do atall price points and to actually
really help people.
The other thing that I was soexcited about is that everything
(08:18):
is tracked in such detail thatyou know exactly where every
penny of your marketinginvestment is going.
And that was never true in radioand TV and newspaper.
The whole sales pitch isbasically, trust me, and we're
gonna hope for the best withyour advertising investment.
Where with digital marketing,Google ads, Facebook ads, I can
(08:39):
tell you exactly how many peoplesaw your ad, how many
conversions you made, what wasyour return on investment.
Very detailed metrics to supportwhat we are doing, what we're
recommending, what, why we'remaking this strategy for you.
That was an exciting time for methat this whole new world opened
up in digital marketing based onwhere I'd come from.
Russel (09:02):
Night and day worlds there.
As you're kind of alluding toand as we're ending 2024, early
2025, that this whole, yeah.
Trust me, it will work, uh,isn't, isn't the sell that it
maybe used to be.
I'm curious, I gotta almostthink it's, this has gotta be
climbing up there as one of themore prominent reasons someone
actually jumps off and starts anagency, of getting laid off as
(09:23):
being the catalyst for, forsomeone going and doing their
own thing.
With that thought in mind, Imean, did you ever think you
were gonna end up in owning yourown business someday, or was it
just getting kicked off theboat?
Stacey (09:32):
Absolutely not.
I was the most reluctantbusiness owner ever.
It's a weird thing, and I saythat the universe kind of pushed
me in this direction to be anentrepreneur, to be a CEO.
I never dreamed, uh, anything.
I would sit next to people in,in my corporate office, yeah,
I'm gonna save up my money andstart my own business one day.
(09:55):
I had always been a salariedemployee.
I just wanted that security.
That's all I ever asked for inlife, and, and to be on my own
and to never know exactly wherethe next penny's gonna come
from.
That was hard.
That was the hardest part ofthat transition.
Russel (10:09):
A lot of people will say here too, that like.
you know, look, I just don'twanna ever be in that position
again, that someone can takethat security away from me.
But, you know, and obviously,and just hearing how you're
talking about it, right?
You had a very futuristicapproach in, in kind of leaving
this old world behind and cominginto the world of digital
marketing.
Why was your core decision like,no, I'm, I'm gonna go do this on
my own?
Stacey (10:28):
I feel like I came into this kicking and screaming.
When I first got laid off, ittook me several months to figure
out, am I applying for a newjob?
Am I gonna go out on my own?
Things just started happeningaround me that I just couldn't
ignore.
At one point I, I, having beenon unemployment and you get
(10:49):
listed on these rosters and thenyou get invited to do different
things and somehow I, I stilldon't fully understand how it
happened.
I got selected for a grant from,it was through the Oregon
Unemployment Department fromhaving been laid off, and they'd
reached out to me and basicallysaid, we think you're a
(11:09):
candidate, a good candidate tostart your own business.
We know you've been looking forjobs, um, but we think, and, and
you haven't been very successfulin getting a new job, but we do
think that you are a goodcandidate to start your own
business for the background thatyou have and, and your skillset.
At first I was kinda like, whatare you even talking about?
Russel (11:29):
Hold on.
Now this is really curiousstuff.
Is this just something they'resending out to a lot of people
or, or are they actually doing aprocess of somehow, weeding
people out?
Stacey (11:37):
That's a really good question and I don't fully know
the answer to that.
All I know is before I barelyeven had a chance to think about
it, I got selected for a grant.
I don't believe it existsanymore, but it was this very
special grant that they said,okay, so we want you to focus on
(11:57):
building your own business, andthis grant is going to pay your
mortgage for a year while youstart to build your business.
At first, I was like, is thisreally true?
What in the heck is happeninghere?
Russel (12:11):
What scam is this?
Stacey (12:12):
But it was, it was legit.
That was a really big deal.
I just thought, okay, theuniverse is trying to tell me
something here.
That's pretty big.
And additional things like thatjust kept happening.
Eventually it was like, okay, I,I guess we're doing this.
Russel (12:26):
I've heard the term reluctant owner before, but you,
you might take the cake, right?
Stacey (12:30):
I'll wear that crown.
Russel (12:32):
Kicking and screaming, and here you are.
But I'm glad you eventuallylistened to the signs and
signals.
And then I wanted, I'm verycurious, right, in this path of
everything you were leavingbehind this old world and I'm
going to this world of digital.
I mean, Do you consider yourselfa futurist or just why was that
so really just ideas solidifiedin your mind and important as
(12:53):
you branched out?
Stacey (12:53):
It just comes back to how can I most effectively help
people and how can I help peopleat all different budget levels?
How can I educate people aboutthis new, modern digital world
that we're entering in forparticularly these clients who
all they've ever known is to buynewspaper ads and radio ads, and
(13:15):
this whole digital world isscary so how do I make that less
scary for people?
Make people understand this isthe way of the future, but all
the benefits like we just talkedabout earlier, of why it's so
important to think about movinginto the digital world and what
that's gonna mean for theirbusiness and keeping them moving
(13:35):
forward with the times.
Russel (13:37):
I love it when I hear a, an amazing fundamental because I
really think success in businesscomes back to the fundamentals.
Can we get the fundamentalsright?
And this question that youasked, how can I help people?
If you're wanting to grow yourbusiness or if you're wanting to
probably succeed, that's thefirst question to ask.
It's not, how do I get moresales?
How can I better help people?
And build and create somethingthat, that gives that.
(13:57):
I can see why asking yourselfthat question created all these
other signs for you as you were,in, in the early phase of your
business.
When you think about, right, Imean, clearly you said 11 years
ago, I think is when you saidyou started your business.
The world's catching up tounderstanding digital.
It's getting all the morecomplicated and crazy, but at
the same time, right, I rememberin the early days of having our
agency, it's like, you need awebsite, sir.
(14:18):
This website is this thing andright., We're way past that.
Everybody knows what a websiteis.
So how has that thought processevolved?
What is the next future or evento extent of how you can answer
that question of how do you helppeople?
Stacey (14:29):
I think soon we're gonna be having more and more
conversations of how do we useAI effectively, how do we use
that strategically in a waythat's not, ooh, we're gonna
copy and paste a blog for youout of AI?
That's not happening, but thereare really strategic ways to use
it and we're still exploringsome of those ways, but I think
(14:53):
there's going to be a lot of newways that we can really start to
learn how to use AI in ameaningful way, that's gonna
make it more efficient and morecost efficient for us to be able
to help more people and, andmore affordably.
I think that's exciting for our,our clients.
Take blogs for example.
We've always been in thebusiness of writing blogs for
(15:15):
our clients and we've had tohire writers that would write
these original blogs, and that'sexpensive for us to hire people
to do that.
Now we still, of course, havewriters on staff, but AI can
help give us really greatoutlines, let's say.
We're not gonna ask ChatGPT towrite the blog, but we can have
(15:35):
them write a really strong,clear, thorough outline, for
example, and that can reallyspeed up the process for us.
Instead of someone maybespending three or four hours on
an original blog, maybe they cancrank out something really well
done in an hour, let's say.
That's a cost savings then tothe client.
There was a lot of transitionsin marketing 11 years ago, and
(15:58):
now we're starting a whole newwave of new transitions and just
holding on for the ride.
But yeah, trying to appreciateall the changes that are going
on, not be afraid of them butembrace them, is a big part of
it.
Russel (16:09):
AI is certainly the hot topic of agencies today and all
the same question.
How do we, How do we keep ourstrength and strategy in the
human element of this, but alsohow do we leverage this as a
tool for efficiency andkick-starting, if you will.
I'm curious, because I'm not outin the world selling agency
services anymore.
What is the general consumerclient coming to the table with?
Are they expecting AIincorporated into the work
(16:32):
that's being done?
Are they asking a lot of toughquestions about this?
What does that look like fromthe, the prospect?
Stacey (16:37):
They're not yet, honestly.
Nobody's really asked me, areyou just going to use AI to
write my content?
It's interesting that you askedthat because it really hasn't
been a conversation.
I think some, a little bit ofwhat's happening is clients will
come and say, I've got mycontent already for you.
Let's start building the websiteand I'm usually like, okay, hold
(16:58):
on.
Take a deep breath.
Let's take a look and see whatyou've got.
A lot of times it's just comestraight from ChatGPT, and I'm
just like, okay, let us, let'swork through that.
This is great as an outline, asthe bones and the skeleton of,
of what you're trying toaccomplish here.
Let us work with that and makeit sound like an actual human
wrote it.
In some ways, yes, we have someclients that are a little bit
(17:21):
over excited about AI, but it'sinteresting times.
Russel (17:25):
For as smart as it is a dumb tool too.
Just in case anybody hasn'tfigured this out on their own
yet.
It gets stuff wrong all thetime, by the way.
It is funny.
Even in a marketing sense, I wascollaborating with someone on
how do we leverage some AI to,to write some page titles and
stuff?
It would spit out page titles,but then they'd be like, 300 and
400 characters long.
I was like, hey, ChatGPT, don'tyou think this is long?
Oh yeah, it is this long.
(17:45):
Let me condense this down.
If you didn't know right, youwould think, well, that's my
page title.
I'm gonna throw that in there.
Silly ChatGPT.
Stacey (17:52):
And that's a skill too that, that we're learning.
How do you write those prompts?
How do you write reallyeffective prompts for ChatGPT so
that it can generate the rightanswers?
You said, with page titles,okay, I need you to write me a
page title that's about thismany characters or this many
words, it's gonna be six words,whatever it is.
Be very specific.
(18:13):
I need an elevator pitch that is750 characters that's gonna fit
on my Google business profile,that kind of thing.
Russel (18:20):
Maybe that's the when, when folks are gonna come say
this, right?
It should be cheaper'causeyou're using AI.
Well, we can give these storiesof like, let me tell you all the
times AI is wrong and why westill need a lot of human
oversight.
This is again, another tool toleverage efficiency, but the,
the world of strategy's gottenall the more harder so that's
where we're gonna put our effortanyway.
Stacey (18:38):
I will say that the one area where, where AI has been
actually really legitimatelyhelpful is in coding websites.
We build in WordPress and so wedon't have to do a lot of coding
day to day, but when we do,because if we have some really
complex functionality that we'retrying to accomplish, it has
been really good to speed upour, our coding for our
(19:00):
developers.
That's been huge.
That's actually been really hugefor us.
Russel (19:04):
I use it for Excel a lot.
It's like, all right, I knowwhat I want to create.
Can you give me the templateformula for this pivot table in
Excel and with these variables?
Not that I couldn't figure outand sit on down and figure it on
my own, but yeah, it just, justmakes it go faster and less,
less holes in the wall from myhead getting beat into it.
But, uh, I heard recently thatyou've got to, or may, maybe not
recently even at this point,but, uh, you brought your
(19:25):
husband into the business.
What was that process like?
Was that a goal?
Did he come kicking andscreaming?
Give us the details on that.
Stacey (19:31):
Yeah, so about, well, okay, so we, we had actually met
in radio, in the corporatemarket, marketing department.
We both come from very strongmarketing backgrounds and that's
something that I think reallysets us apart from your typical
web design agency is that theowners come from marketing, and
(19:54):
I think it's that marketingstrategy that really sets us
apart.
You could be a great webdeveloper and you're the best
coder in the world, but if youdon't truly understand marketing
strategy and SEO, getting themessaging right, understanding
usability, there's, there's awhole lot that goes into
building a strong and effectivewebsite.
(20:14):
We have both come from marketingand my side of the marketing was
more towards the messaging,getting, getting those headlines
right.
Being able to speak to thattarget audience in just the
right way.
His background was moretechnical.
He's got a long background inweb design, in graphic design.
(20:35):
so very complimentary skills towhat I do.
I was about four years into thebusiness, I was primarily doing
social media.
I'd never been a well, webdeveloper myself, um, but as I
was working with clients ontheir social media and their,
their online presence, theywould ask, oh, hey, can you
build me a website?
(20:55):
I thought, well.
I can't, but David can on hisfree time, on evenings and
weekends when he is not at hisregular day job.
Eventually it just got to thepoint where he's like, I can't
have two jobs anymore, and so itjust made sense.
It was very organic.
It's not something that wereally ever planned out.
I think there was a part of himthat secretly was always trying
(21:18):
to figure out a way of how hecould join the company.
It just happened that it, I justended up really needing him.
He brought this whole otherelement to the business, this
whole new skillset.
Between the two of us, um, Ithink we really, I, we're a
force of nature based on ourcomplimentary skills and being
able to bring all of the mostimportant key elements to a
(21:40):
project.
Again, all the while, throughthe lens of marketing, because
not all web developers aremarketers.
Russel (21:48):
Isn't that right?
I think I've talked about this alot with folks maybe on the show
before of, right, marketing'sgotten so more complicated.
Just be an expert at marketingis, is probably, or you need a
PhD to have that these days thatwe have got all these mediums
and mechanisms and tools that,um, no wonder we're so niche
because it's just so hard to begood at all of'em.
I could see this one plus oneequals three, you know, approach
(22:09):
in bringing your husband intobeing able to help folks.
What's it been like?
And maybe not on the clientside, but, uh, how has that been
in your relationship and how doyou guys navigate that part of
things?
Stacey (22:18):
Good days and bad days.
Ultimately at the end of the dayit's been a good thing and we
both, I think what, what reallykeeps us going and always
looking forward is we recognizethat we each need each other in
this business for it tofunction.
I absolutely depend on him forhis talents, and he absolutely
depends on me for mine.
(22:40):
Mine is the messaging, thecontent strategy and sales.
I am the sales director and sothat's, that's a big part of it
that he wants no part of.
Even on the tough days, at theend of the day, we really
appreciate and acknowledge whatthe other one brings to the
table.
Sure we're gonna havedisagreements and not always,
(23:01):
um, come up with the sameanswers to every situation.
But, um, ultimately we respecteach other's, um, opinions and
actually, one thing I learnedfrom another, some colleagues of
ours that are another husbandand wife agency, and how they
really figured out, you know,what's my lane?
What are the things that I'm incharge of?
(23:22):
And I think we've done a reallygood job of that.
Like in sales, for example.
Ultimately I will decide ourpricing.
Now that doesn't mean I won'thave a discussion with him and
talk through, okay, we're gonnado this great big new project
that we've never done before.
You're gonna have to estimate onthe production side what that's
going to entail, like how manyhours, what kinds of other
(23:43):
expenses might be involved.
I'm gonna need some feedbackbefore I determine our final
pricing.
But ultimately, at the end ofthe day, I, I decide the pricing
and, and he's totally fine withthat.
Then likewise, when it comes tothe more technical side of
things, any sort of softwarethat we're buying, anything, uh,
technical equipment, anythinglike that, I defer to him.
(24:04):
I'm like, you know what?
That's all you, you, you figureit out.
Do what you think is best.
We've tried really hard to, toset things up that way where,
okay, this is your lane.
You get to make that finaldecision.
It gets a little bit tricky,things like hiring and firing,
because those are, are, thoseare 50/50 and we do those
together.
So far we've, we've mostly beenon the same page, but every once
(24:26):
in a while there's those fewsituations that come up that
don't really fall in either ofour lanes and we just have to
figure it out.
But yeah, ultimately it's, it'sworked out well for us.
Russel (24:37):
Good.
Well, that's always good tohear.
It seems like one of thosethings it can strengthen or it
can go the other direction.
Glad to hear you're on the, onthe positive side.
I love that, you know, stayingin your lane and right, that can
be whether, whether you'remarried to your business partner
or not, just how important it isto really be specific and
intentional about what the laneis.
When you come together and whenyou've, when you have your own
(24:57):
kind of autonomy and, uh,authority or however you wanna
look at that.
But having that communicationand really, uh, coming to terms
on what that looks like, I cansee where that has been
effective.
I'm always curious, do you havelike a, it's not, it's not weird
if it works like, any hacks thatlike you've just had to put on
place like, we will not talkabout business at the dinner
table or just anything likethat, that's also made this work
for you guys?
Stacey (25:17):
No, I, as, as much as we would like to say that we try to
leave work at the office, we'venever been able to, to
accomplish that.
As far as like the secret sauceof how it works, um, I mean,
other than, yeah, other thanstay in your lane.
I'm not sure that I have the,the magical answer for that.
Russel (25:35):
Yeah, I was just looking for like the little hack or
whatever, it sounds like you'vejust made it work through a
great relationship,transparency, communication.
and, When you think about thefuture, what are you, what are
you trying to create?
Whatcha trying to build here?
Stacey (25:47):
Continue to grow with innovation and technology, and
that is just changing all thetime in terms of the specific
types of website builders.
We build in WordPress, butthere's all sorts of different
builders that you can, uh, usewith that.
We're constantly trying out newbuilders.
(26:08):
We're big fans of the BricksBuilder right now in WordPress.
We're constantly having to learnnew builders and because they're
just better and they're morecustomizable and they run
quicker for the end user.
They have better security.
They, uh, just have betterflexibility in what we're able
(26:28):
to do.
Really staying on top of whatare some new options for us?
What are some new ways that wecan embrace technology and be
more efficient with what we do?
Just constantly learning all thetime.
It's like just when we get usedto, uh, we had used the Avada
builder for a long time inWordPress, and we loved it, and
we thought it was the greatestthing.
(26:49):
Well, we've had to evolve and itwas the best at the time.
But we've had several otherbuilders since then.
At the moment, Bricks is, seemsto be one of the top end
solutions and we're all stilllearning it and we're all
teaching each other.
Oh, I just learned this today.
Oh, I just learned this.
There's been a lot of that.
Just embracing technology,trying to be more efficient in
(27:13):
everything that we do is a bigfocus for us.
Russel (27:15):
Especially con, our conversation earlier, AI tools
are just moving a mile a minuteand, and it's like every day
there's a new leader in, inwhat's the best language
processing tool, and then we getall these other kinda sub genres
of AI, so that alone couldprobably be a full-time job of
just keeping up what's latestand greatest with AI by itself.
What is your favorite AI toolright now?
Stacey (27:35):
We use ChatGPT, and so I know my husband's a really big
fan of Claude that he's justdiscovered particularly for
development, so he's, he'spretty excited about that one.
He's really liking it for codingand development and it's helped
him be able to create somereally complex e-commerce
(27:55):
solutions that we're workingthrough.
We've actually got a couple ofwebsites right now with, we call
'em Build a Bear, um, which is atype of, it's just sort of our
internal name that we've givenit, which means it's very, uh,
very complex e-commerce.
So if someone's buying thisproduct, there's a lot of
contingencies.
First you choose your color, sothen based on your color, now
(28:17):
you have these options.
Okay, so after that, now youhave these options and it's,
it's very complex.
Russel (28:24):
Awesome.
I'm not a developer, but I'lltake his word for it.
Last big question for you then,Stacey.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Stacey (28:30):
I can only speak for myself, and I'll say that I was
made, if not forced into it.
Russel (28:36):
I would agree with that.
Maybe that needs to be a thirdoption when I ask this question,
are entrepreneurs born, made, orforced?
Stacey (28:42):
I think it's different for everybody.
I do believe there are peoplethat are born to be
entrepreneurs.
I don't think that was me.
I've had to grow into the role,but very happy how it's, how
it's ended up.
Russel (28:53):
If people wanna know more about Musimack Marketing,
where can they go?
Stacey (28:56):
Helpmeshineonline.com.
Russel (28:59):
Oh, okay.
Unexpected URL there.
Dropping that little nugget.
That is easy.
Helpmeshineonline.com.
Thank you so much, Stacey, fortaking the time to share your
journey today.
The highs and lows, the, thetips to making it all work with
your husband, how we use thiscrazy thing like AI technology.
So many wonderful nuggets tomunch on, and again, really
appreciate you taking the timeto share it.
Stacey (29:19):
Thanks Russel.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(29:39):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
One thing that happened to us very early on, and I'm
(30:02):
trying to think back if we evenactually had a sales contract at
that time, and maybe that wasthe impetus to even get that
going.
We had a client who, he was a,he was a young guy trying to
start this new business.
He hadn't really thought throughhis business very well.
He was a referral and so I, Itrusted that, that he was legit.
He had us build a website forhim and he had a drone business,
(30:27):
and this is when drones werestill pretty darn new.
A lot of people didn't reallyfully know what they were and
why you would need them, so hewas doing like drone video kinds
of projects was, was hisbusiness.
It should have been a red flagto us as he was explaining that
he had spent like his whole lifesavings buying this$1,500 drone.
(30:48):
And anyway, What ended uphappening was we built this
website and he loved it.
He was super happy with it.
As we were getting ready tocollect the final payment right
before we launched, he's like,yeah, you know, I decided I'm
just not gonna do this businessanymore.
I am like, okay.
Obviously we can't launch thesite, um, without, you know, the
(31:11):
final payment.
He's like, oh yeah, yeah, that'sfine.
Just don't launch the site.
He didn't make the finalpayment.
I think what happened wassomething happened to his drone,
it crashed, or it needed a newpart, or it needed, or he lost
it, or who knows what.
I think something happened tothat drone and he couldn't
afford to replace it, is my bestassumption.
That he didn't, you know, thinkall that through.
(31:31):
We built this whole website thatwe didn't get to collect the
final payment on.
I think we did have some kind ofan agreement, probably not the,
the level of contracts that wehave now.
I think we had something inplace, but he didn't have any
money.
It wouldn't have made, like, howare we gonna go after this guy?
We just had to eat it and let itgo.
But that was like a realeye-opener.
What in the world just happenedhere?
Russel (31:51):
All contracts, all need for contracts and, and probably
even rules in the world.
It makes me think of, I was inAir Force, air traffic control,
and pretty much half the thingsI had to say as an air traffic
controller was because somebodyhad made a mistake prior to
that.
To this point, little fun factin the world of air traffic
control, when you're telling aplane to land, you have to say
check wheels down.
You can imagine why that is nowa rule in, uh, air traffic
(32:13):
control language, um, to remindan airplane pilot to check that
their wheels are down, um,because a plane is in fact
landed.
Anyway, we can only live andlearn.
That's all that to say.
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