June 1, 2025 • 32 mins
Company: Twelve Legs Marketing
Guests: Ralitsa Carter
Year Started: 2018
Employees: 11-25
What do ice cream, spreadsheets, and an Emmy have in common? In this episode, Ralitsa Carter, Co-Founder of Twelve Legs Marketing, shares how financial discipline, intentional growth, and creativity built her agency from the ground up. If you're an agency owner chasing sustainable success, this episode is your speed.
Key Takeaways
- The financial rule they follow every month (and reward with ice cream)
- Why slow, intentional growth beat chasing fast scale
- How a passion project became an Emmy-winning mini-doc
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What do monthly finance reviews, a conservative budget,
and ice cream have in common?
They are the not so secretingredients behind building an
Emmy winning agency.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast.
I'm your host Russel.
On today's episode, I'm joinedby Raltisa Carter, co-founder of
12 Legs Marketing, a digitalmarketing and video production
(01:02):
agency based out of ColoradoSprings.
Releases shares how financialdiscipline, a love for
storytelling and a global teamstructure, have allowed her and
her partner to grow sustainablyeven during unpredictable times.
We also talk about the momenttheir passion project turned
into an Emmy win, the lessonsthey've learned about leading
(01:22):
with purpose, and yes, why icecream is part of their monthly
business ritual.
You will walk away with a freshperspective on growth that
doesn't require burnout ormassive risk, and how staying
grounded in your values can beyour agency's greatest
competitive advantage.
So grab a scoop and enjoy thestory.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Ralitsa Carter withTwelve Legs Marketing with us
(01:45):
here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today Ralitsa.
Ralitsa (01:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to talk to you.
Russel (01:50):
The pleasure is all mine.
Real quick, actually, you knowwhat, Before we get into all
this agency stuff, we were justchatting.
You're in the Colorado area.
We are chatting about skiing andthe holiday break and all that.
Are you a skier?
Do you love the snow?
How do you like living inColorado?
Ralitsa (02:06):
I love Colorado.
I love living in Colorado.
I do love the snow.
Not a fan of the bitter cold butcomes with the territory.
I used to be a skier.
I'm now a snowboarder, but I'mkind of thinking whether I
should switch back to skiing, sotime will show.
Russel (02:18):
All right.
That's the real battle in theworld of skiing is skiers versus
snowboarders.
Where do you sit on that?
Are you like the mediator in anyof those conversations?
What does that look like?
Ralitsa (02:26):
I tend to be the mediator in many conversations.
I've been scrutinized for somany years.
We're switching from skiing tosnowboarding and how much
snowboarders, you know, scrapethe snow off of the, the, the
tracks and all that.
But my main reason for switchingwas really the comfort of the
shoes, to be fairly honest withyou.
Russel (02:43):
Oh, right.
Oh, I feel that.
I feel that in my soul.
Ralitsa (02:46):
Yep.
Anyway, I am, I am contemplatingswitching back.
We'll see how it goes.
It's getting harder and harderwith age.
Take those falls on my behind.
Russel (02:55):
I think that's, that's my hesitation to do snowboarding
for, for a hot minute.
My son's a snowboarder and I'm askier.
We traded at the end of one dayand just kind of down at the, at
the bunny hill side of things,and I think I lasted about two
minutes trying to snowboard,fell in some awkward position
and was like, you know what?
I, I don't know if my body couldsurvive learning this, so we'll
stick to skiing, but the wholeboots thing, man.
I would pay a very large sum ofmoney for someone to invent very
(03:18):
comfortable ski boots.
Ralitsa (03:19):
I am surprised that nobody has to be fairly honest,
but hey, maybe a a, anopportunity there for business.
Russel (03:25):
We need like the military to really wanna invest
in ski.
But it seems like so many greatinventions come out of the, the
military world of when they go,wanna spend a bunch of money on
something.
If there's any generals outthere listening, maybe they can,
um, maybe they can make this apriority in, in the budget, but,
alright.
That was a fun conversation.
Let's skip back to Twelve LegsMarketing.
What do you do and who do you doit for?
Ralitsa (03:46):
At Twelve Links Marketing, we, we strive to map
or, or match rather, creativitywith strategy.
We specialize in videoproduction and digital
marketing.
We have a portfolio of a varietyof clients, to be fairly honest
with you.
From the start of the, you know,initiation of the agency, we've
developed a portfolio that's notnecessarily in one niche.
(04:06):
Over the last six, seven years,we actually developed a
dedicated team to the rentalindustry.
And when I say rental, thatincludes heavy equipment, tools,
party and events.
I can dive further in if you'dlike.
Russel (04:16):
Yeah, no, we'll go way deeper into that.
But, uh, I love that.
Very cool space and I don'tthink you dropped it, but, and
we will get to this later aswell.
You didn't say Emmy awardwinning, uh, any, anywhere in
there.
You're just being humble?
Ralitsa (04:29):
I am being humble.
Yes.
We have an award-winning videodepartment.
We won our first Emmy after sixor seven nominations before
that, just a year and a halfago.
And We're super proud of it andactually I can, I can show it to
you right here, boo yaa.
Russel (04:42):
Oh, oh, look at this.
I have never seen a genuine Emmybefore.
This is a real first.
This is a show first.
This is a Russel first.
That is beautiful.
Thank you for that.
That is awesome.
Congratulations.
And, and I mean, Just getting anEmmy and then you said six or
seven nominations.
That is incredible unto itself.
All right, well, we're gonnahave to figure out all the
secret sauce that that's allowedyou to be able to do that.
(05:04):
But before we do that, I wannahear about young Ralitsa and
what was she trying to do withher life?
Who did she wanna be when shegrew up?
Go back to like kindergarten.
I don't know.
Something a way, way back, along time ago.
Ralitsa (05:16):
Kindergarten probably wouldn't be very telling of who
I want it to be, but, um, I've,um, so I've lived on three
continents, traveled a lot, beenvery fortunate to have an
extremely supportive parents,family in general, when it came
to my, to choosing myprofession.
Initially I was preparing to bean architect because I love
mathematics and I love drawing.
But then I absolutely byaccident met somebody who was
(05:38):
getting ready to apply foranimation school.
That kind of piqued my interest.
I found a world in which youcould draw and create life and
be behind the scenes, behind thecamera,'cause I don't like to be
in front of the camera too much,so I pursued my education and
career originally in graphicdesign and animation.
I worked in that field for a fewyears, started my own studio,
and very quickly came to realizethat in art school they don't
(06:01):
teach you much business skills.
Trying to run my own animationstudio was an interesting
experience.
Russel (06:07):
Is that why there's so many starving artists out there
is because they're just notteaching any, any business
programs in art school?
Ralitsa (06:13):
You know what, there, it, it could be, and gosh, don't
quote me.
It very possibly could be whenyou create art, you really
create with your heart and everypiece is your baby.
It's very hard to sell yourselfin a professional manner.
So yes, it's possible thatbusiness skills lacking in art
school, have something to dowith that.
But anyway, fast forward jumpedup on from Europe to the US to
(06:34):
do my master's degree.
I was super fortunate to strikea job with an awesome agency
outta LA.
Had great mentors, worked onfantastic accounts, and that's
really what got me started inthe digital space.
It was a serendipitous alignmentof events.
Russel (06:48):
Wow.
All right.
We're gonna come back to that,but you said you lived on three
continents.
Where have you lived and, and,and give us the goods or where,
where, where should we besuggesting people to visit or
even live?
Ralitsa (06:58):
That's very subjective.
Where should you visit?
I'm originally from Bulgaria,Eastern Europe.
In Europe, I've lived inBulgaria, Germany, Italy, and
the UK.
And then, uh, with my parents, Iactually had the great
opportunity to live in Pakistan,in Asia.
I've traveled throughout Asiaquite a bit as well.
Pakistan has a very bad rep inthe media.
I have very warm feelings.
(07:19):
We met great people and we stillstay in touch with a lot of the
people we met and knew there.
I'd recommend if you're braveand you're open-minded to
possibly visit.
But uh, yeah, so Asia, Europe,and now the US.
Russel (07:32):
What's your favorite spot?
And you, you don't have to saythe US.
What's been your favorite sofar?
Were you saying Pakistan?
Was it Pakistan?
Ralitsa (07:37):
My favorite.
No, no, I wouldn't say it wasPak, Pakistan is definitely an
experience.
I love the food, definitely anexperience.
If I could pick, and it's abattle between two places, if I
could pick where to live, onewould be the Caribbean.
I just love the warm waters andwhite sand beaches, and the
other one would be Italy.
I am a big, big fan of Italy.
Russel (07:55):
Trying to get my wife and kids to move to Italy and
it's just not going well.
On the dream bucket list.
Ralitsa (08:00):
Oh, well.
Can you start with a shorterperiod of time, a couple of
months?
Russel (08:03):
Not wrong.
And at that point, I would justbe like, kidnapping, be like, by
the way, kids, I already soldour house at home and, um, you
know, there's nothing to go backto.
So guess what?
We're living in Italy.
That's not a bad idea.
Thank you for that.
We'll work on that.
Well then, how many languages doyou speak?
I gotta know this too.
Ralitsa (08:18):
Oh yeah.
Fluently, I only speak twolanguages, Bulgarian and
English.
I speak a little bit of German.
I studied Italian.
But yeah, fluently is just thosetwo.
In my family, my sister took thelanguage strength.
She's the one who mastered quitea few languages.
I'm kind of the ordinary mortal.
Russel (08:33):
All right.
Can you say, welcome to AnAgency Story podcast in
Bulgarian?
Ralitsa (08:37):
Story, uh, Agency Story Podcast.
Let me do this again.
Dobre doshli v An Agency StoryPodcast
Russel (08:44):
Love that.
And I can only assume it'scorrect because I know zero
words in Bulgarian.
Ralitsa (08:48):
I promise.
Russel (08:48):
I trust you.
I don't wanna anger any otherBulgarian listeners we have
here.
All right.
Well, let's circle back to theagency life.
You've had a wonderful career,traveled all over the place, and
sounds like it primed you andsounds like you even had some of
your own things going on, butall prime to tell us how the
origins of Twelve Legs cameabout.
Ralitsa (09:06):
The origins of Twelve Links Marketing came about
really from realizing betweenmyself and Jason that we came to
a point where we both hadcorporate jobs.
We were doing great, fantasticemployers, great opportunities,
but on both sides, him andtelevision me, um, on the
marketing side of things, we sawopportunities to do things
better and ultimately to make aninvestment of our own and
(09:28):
ourselves.
It was not an easy decision tomake because for anybody who has
started a business and kind ofjumped from being a full-time
employee with all the benefitsthat come with that to running
your own thing, you know, therisks are not small and the
adjustments you need to make arenot small either.
But it really came out from bothof us being passionate for each
of our realm of work.
Seeing an opportunity to pairour strengths and, um, just
(09:52):
being in a situation where wecould afford to start a
business, see how it goes.
So far, knock on wood, it's beenthe right choice for us.
Russel (09:59):
You got an Emmy, so, um, it seems to be,
Ralitsa (10:02):
We got it.
Oh my gosh, yes, we did.
Russel (10:04):
Yes.
Good decision.
As I understand it, you guys,you know, I mean yes, talked to
so many folks and that, thatwhole risk piece.
Some folks wanna walk right upto the door before they'd make
that leap.
Some just say, screw it.
I'm jumping in it.
But as I understand it, you guyskind of staggered your leaving
the corporate world a littlebit.
What was that like?
And I, I believe you were thesecond one to jump on board, so
(10:25):
did you have some jealousythere?
Just tell us kind of how that,how that transition worked out
for you guys.
Ralitsa (10:29):
Great question.
So yes, Jason was the first one.
He officially started TwelveLegs Marketing.
He was the first to dive into itright away.
The transition itself, so forfull transparency, uh, apart
from business partners, we'realso partners in life.
We're a married couple, so itcame down to, you know, running
the numbers and making sure thatwe could afford that change of
(10:50):
pace.
Jason started the business onthe video production side of
things and um, he's just supertalented.
I really have nothing more tosay.
He's very good at networking,started developing a portfolio
of video clients, startedsmaller initially and then grew
that portfolio.
For about a year and a couple ofmonths, he was full-time in
Twelve Legs Marketing.
I was developing some of ourdigital portfolio on the side,
(11:12):
uh, while keeping my corporatejob.
I'm not saying that people whoare fully employed should have
side gigs.
That's, I think, what a lot ofpeople do, so as long as the two
don't influence negatively eachother, you're good.
But yeah, was there jealousy?
Yes.
There was at times jealousy.
I have to admit, I'm human.
It was really the last fewmonths, which were extremely,
uh, challenging for me just froma personal standpoint because I
(11:35):
had to stay focused on mycorporate job because that was
my full-time employer, whileknowing that the transition was
coming and I was truly excitedabout it.
I just wanted to give my wholeheart to Twelve Legs Marketing
and, and yeah, it, it workedout.
Russel (11:49):
Yes.
Clearly.
so When you were like looking, Imean, did you guys have a
certain threshold?
You're like, okay, when we gethere, or, or even just set a
date, hey, by this date, youknow, kind of far off just to
give yourself a goalpost, or howdid you really know what, when
that time was gonna be right foryou to actually make that
transition?
Ralitsa (12:05):
That's also a great question.
I am a lot more prone toanalyzing every little detail.
Jason is a little bit faster tomake decisions and just take
risks.
It was really about crunchingdown the numbers, making sure
that we knew what our bareminimum expenses were.
And once we were able to bringthat from the business, was the
(12:25):
time that we could afford for meto join full-time as well.
'Cause we knew that if we couldcover our foundational needs,
then it was only upwards andonwards from there.
So it was numbers.
Russel (12:35):
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
Now what happens a lot, right,and there's just all that
excitement and that rigor thatit takes, like, all right, can I
actually pull this offfinancially?
And then I will say, some folksout there like to, like, to
forget this whole numbers part.
Did any of that work help youjust as you were running and
growing the business and evenmaybe kind of past the early
stage of just that attention todetail when it, as it relates to
(12:56):
numbers?
Ralitsa (12:57):
Yes, absolutely, yes.
The way we manage our personalportfolio, financial portfolio
and our business financialportfolio is with a lot of
discipline.
It's really easy to get excitedand just start overspending.
Especially as a new business,you have so many needs.
You need software, you needemployees, you need processes,
you need somebody to consult youon how to do things.
You need marketing dollars,right?
(13:18):
It's so easy to start justspend, overspending, um, not
thinking through, well, whathappens if you run into a tough
situation.
So truly the way we'vestructured, our, you know, from
a financial standpoint, TwelveLegs Marketing is we always have
a threshold of three months tocover all of our expenses for
the business.
And then each year we put aside,aim to put aside about 30% into
(13:38):
that fund and then keep 30% forinvestments.
Could have we grown faster if wespent more money?
Yes.
But that would've increased ourrisks tremendously as well.
So we've always taken a slightlymore conservative approach and I
think it's just, um, uh, hadbenefits for us.
We've never taken a loan for thebusiness.
It's been good.
Russel (13:56):
Are you using, I mean, some folks, you know, that
sounds similar, maybe notexactly like a profit first
framework or where did you getthis savvy of just how to
approach your, your, the, thefinancial aspects of your
business?
Ralitsa (14:06):
This is gonna sound very childish, but from my mom
and dad, honestly.
In Europe, uh, especially at thetime when I was growing up,
everything was cash based.
You either had the cash in yourhand and you could spend it, or
guess what?
You couldn't spend it.
I think that financialdiscipline came on from a very
early age.
And, you know, I observed how myparents managed the books for
(14:26):
the family and that transitionedinto my way of thinking and
methodology.
I'm just very grateful'causeJason has been very open to
those type of recommendations,'cause in the US it's a little
bit of a different approach towhere credit is used a lot more.
Which again, can have a lot ofpositives and I'm not fully
against it as long as you do itsmartly.
It just came from my childhoodand where I grew up.
Russel (14:46):
I know for sure, I mean, I, I think credit card and just
the digital banking systemperiod, right, has caused us to
spend more.
I remember the days, I'm, I'mold enough that I had to balance
a checkbook when I got my firstaccount.
And so if I spend, I, I knewthat I, you know, right, you
couldn't go over back then therewasn't really even a lot of
overdraft type situations backthen for, uh, for a young
student account.
(15:07):
You just had to be prudent intracking and watch your dollars
and then now you don't.
I mean, you should, but youdon't.
Ralitsa (15:13):
Absolutely.
It's all about instantgratification and, and the
system makes it available.
Russel (15:17):
All right.
Then last question on thatfront, I mean, like, any tools
you use out there or anythingthat, that just helps make that
process easier for you?
Or is it just good old fashionedExcel and, and, uh, and grit?
Ralitsa (15:28):
The good old fashioned Excel is definitely part our
daily lives.
Not going to make that up.
For the business, we haveQuickBooks.
We make sure that we review ourexpense reports on a monthly
basis.
We if, you know, make sure thatif there's opportunities to
optimize expenses, we're onthose.
It also allows us to make surethat we're not, you know, for
example, paying for licenses wedon't use.
(15:49):
Uh, staying on top of our profitloss reports.
Really just having grit insticking to reviewing your
numbers, which can be verytedious and boring, boring on a
monthly basis, but it helps.
Russel (15:58):
Any way to make that fun?
Do like a wine night or youjust, you just grin and bear it
and say it's numbers time,let's, uh, let's get this done?
Ralitsa (16:05):
We go out for ice cream.
We really do, yes sir.
Russel (16:09):
Okay.
There you go.
See this, this is what I love,right?
This is not weird if it workskind of stuff like, you know, we
gotta find our incentiveshowever we can to do some of
these things that, yeah, aren'texciting, aren't sexy.
But they're so important.
One of the very common threadsof so many agencies I talk to
that kind of get past thestruggle phase and call it the
success phase, is that theyunderstood their numbers and
they took the time to spend withtheir numbers at, at not just a
(16:32):
cursory level.
What did we bring in and whatdid we put out, but what are the
details behind that?
How do we make meaningfuldecisions from looking at that
number?
I love that detail of do it andgo get ice cream after or
whatever your, your vice is ofchoice.
That's beautiful.
Wonderful insights there on thefinancial front.
Now I've gotta understand moreabout how, how does one win an
Emmy?
Tell us just a little bit aboutthe process.
(16:53):
Like how do you find out?
What was it like?
Did you get to do an acceptancespeech on the stage?
Come on, tell, give us thesedetails.
Ralitsa (16:59):
The show itself, the award show is, is really
emotional and it's, it's veryexciting.
It's a red carpet event, um,it's a black tie and whatever,
fancy dress for the, for thegirls, right?
We have more options than theboys usually.
The way you find out is you, soyou apply for an Emmy award
amongst everybody else withinyour region, and you receive a
formal letter from the Emmystelling you, hey, you've been
(17:22):
nominated and then you attendthis glamorous event.
Then you, you keep fingers,toes, legs crossed, everything,
everything, everything untilyour category comes.
They present everybody who'sbeen nominated in the category
and they announce the winner.
Obviously there's a moment ofhold on.
Did I hear this correct?
Did they really say, uh, youwalk up to the stage, you
receive your award?
The show goes pretty fast paced,so you know, you don't do a
(17:44):
speech on the stage, but to befairly honest, it's just enough
to hear your name announced andto grab the shiny awards that's
waiting for you, and thenobviously celebrate the night
away with your team.
Russel (17:55):
Very fair.
What did you win it for?
What was the project?
Ralitsa (17:57):
The project was actually with a local artist,
um, in Colorado Springs.
She actually started her artsbusiness in Santa Fe, New
Mexico, moved to ColoradoSprings a few years ago.
She has this extremelyinteresting condition, uh, where
when she hears music, she seesdifferent shapes in front of
her.
That's what she paints.
(18:18):
The piece that we produced is a,is a feature, it's, it's a mini
documentary, uh, called I PaintMusic, and it basically
showcases her art.
It was tied to, um, actually anexhibition she had coming up.
The timing of everything workedout very well.
That was it.
Again, Jason is super talented,so of course there was
cinematography that happenedbehind the scenes.
There was post-production thathappened afterwards.
(18:39):
But I would say the key isfinding the stories that stand
out, that not your everydaystories, and then being able to
tell the story itself in astrong enough way to either
revoke an emotion or make astatement.
And that's what he was able toput on the screen.
Russel (18:54):
Wow.
So was this like a clientproject or just like a passion
uh, project on the side you guysdid?
Ralitsa (18:59):
A little bit of both.
We do work with a lot of artistsin our community.
Actually, during Covid, westarted a series, um, Elevated
By Art, and the whole idea was,uh, so during the pandemic, one
of the mostly impacted from abusiness standpoint group were
artists across the board, notjust in Colorado Springs.
We wanted to just driveawareness of how art helps us
(19:20):
overcome difficult situations.
In that specific case, wefeatured a lot of artists and
what they were doing throughoutour community to just bring the
spirits up during a very toughtime when we were not allowed to
be normal, right?
Or be out and about social.
From there, we continued stayinginvolved in the arts community
and telling stories.
That's why I'm saying it is apassion project to a certain
extent.
(19:40):
But Karen Mosbacher, the artistwith whom we produced I Paint
Music, uh, also is a client ofthe agency.
It's a mixed relationship there.
Russel (19:48):
I gotcha.
Hey, there's nothing wrong withwin-win situations, right?
Passion projects turned clientprojects turned Emmys.
If we can make multifaceted winsin this business, then we're
doing pretty well for ourselves.
Where does one stream this?
I gotta go watch this now I'm,I'm very just fascinated by the
concept itself.
Ralitsa (20:03):
Our YouTube channel is probably the easiest way to find
it.
Twelve Legs Marketing, uh, allspelled out.
We have a playlist withaward-winning videos, so it's
towards the top, if I'm notmistaken.
And then our website as well, ofcourse has it too.
Russel (20:15):
Okay.
I paint music.
Is that what it's called?
Ralitsa (20:17):
Yes.
Yep.
Russel (20:18):
All right.
I'm gonna wait checking this outafterwards.
Very fascinating.
I mean, what, What motivatesyou?
I mean, Going back to that kindof passion side of, you know,
saying during Covid.
I imagine like a lot ofbusiness, especially early on,
you probably have your ownstruggles and, and things you're
worried about.
What motivated you to take onthat passion project as you
shared?
Ralitsa (20:35):
You know what we, both Jason and I, throughout our
careers, we've always been invery dynamic environments where
we meet a lot of people on adaily basis, and everyone we
meet seems to have aninteresting story to tell.
You just need to dig it out.
In this specific situation,again, it was very sad.
It was very depressing.
It was very stressful.
Yes, COVID had a lot ofchallenges for us as a business
(20:58):
as well, but we were literallyjust every day trying to find
the positives in the wholesituation and what are we
learning from it and how is itmaking us adjust to overcome
something that nobody expectedwould happen.
Both of us enjoy art.
We buy art for our home.
We produce art.
Video and photography is a formof art as well.
It was kind of a no brainertrying to stay positive.
(21:19):
How do we stay positive?
What keeps us out of this funkof the situation?
Oh, well, art does and all ofits forms.
Cause art is painting, art ismusic, art is cooking.
Art is anything that reallybrings joy to your heart.
That's really where it startedfrom.
And again, just being involvedwith the arts community, we just
knew of stories of people whoare doing cool things.
(21:39):
We're like, well, how aboutsince we have time in our hands,
we just start telling storiesAnd it worked out.
Russel (21:43):
I've already got a title for this, so give, give back and
eat ice cream.
Find ways to get past some ofthe struggling, uh, parts of
business, but really speaks to,right, obviously, COVID was an
unprecedented time, but youknow, you got really two choices
when you're, when you'restruggling, your business,
whether it's COVID or just, justsome of the day-to-day struggles
of, to, to focus and lament onthe struggles or to just be
(22:04):
positive, look for ways to help,look for ways to give back.
Even in this very great exampleyou shared, right, just how that
can and will come back to you ifwe can just keep our heads up
and, and focus on doing goodthings.
Awesome.
Wonderful.
what else is interesting aboutyour agency?
I bet we're not even on the, thecusp of all the cool things
you've done.
Ralitsa (22:22):
You know what, any business is who it is, what it
is, thanks to its team and groupof people who support the
mission every single day.
One of the things that came outof that unprecedented time that
we just spoke about, uh, wasthat we had to pivot and change.
And just like many othercompanies, our team became
hybrid.
We still have people who arebased in Colorado Springs.
(22:43):
We have our physical officewhere we love to go to every
day.
I personally need an officespace to work out of.
I cannot work from home all thetime.
But we were able to develop aninternational team.
We have a small office inBarcelona, Spain, Europe makes
sense.
We love Barcelona, so hey, whynot?
Russel (22:59):
Why not?
Ralitsa (23:00):
Then we have a couple of other employees, uh, from
Eastern Europe full-time.
We have one person in thePhilippines.
We have one person in Canada andquite a few in the US so we,
we're able to develop thismulticultural team, which it's
great, you know, greatprofessionals.
We work together very well everyday.
We achieve great, thi greatthings, but we also have that
component of being able to justshare exciting, cool things from
(23:23):
around the globe that youwouldn't have access to on a
daily basis unless you work witha global team.
That's a cool aspect of who weare.
It's work.
Work is work.
Love what we do.
We're proud of our project.
Russel (23:35):
We gotta love what we do.
I think that's an importantconcept there.
How have you managed, I mean, Byhaving, you know, I imagine all
kinds of disparity just in timezones alone.
Have you found a way to makeyour work more asynchronous?
How do you navigate just the,this, yeah, this the time
difference alone by having sucha global, diverse team.
Ralitsa (23:52):
Flexibility on everybody's part is, is big in
this whole picture.
Actually that's probably beenone of the more challenging
things for us, is finding theright team members who can
support this type of work?
When I say flexibility, uh, weaim to have at least three hours
overlap between everybody everysingle day, which is when we
gather, whether as, as a groupas a whole, or in many groups,
(24:14):
work on projects, communicate.
And then apart from the humanaspect of being able to stay
flexible, professional, andreally accountable, because,
yeah, while I'm asleep, I'mexpecting the work is getting
done by the team.
Also having very well definedprocesses in place.
I would be lying if I said thatour processes are perfect.
There's always room forimprovement, and we always run
(24:35):
into things which are like, oh,we didn't think of that.
Let's adjust it.
Let's tweak it.
Let's improve it.
Between the human factor,finding the right group of
people to surround yourselfwith, and then really
establishing the processes sothere's clarity of who's doing
what and how it's being done.
That's truly how we've been ableto create this team.
Russel (24:51):
And ice cream.
Ralitsa (24:52):
Ice cream.
Ice cream is always great.
Russel (24:53):
Team, ice cream.
I imagine they've got someunique flavors, uh, of ice cream
where some of your folks work.
Ralitsa (24:58):
Oh gosh.
Especially in Asia.
Yes.
Russel (25:01):
What do, do you know of one?
I actually have a, an agency Iwork with, she just got back on
a trip.
I think she went to like,Thailand and, and maybe a
couple, oh, maybe Vietnam.
Maybe Laos, I can't rememberexactly.
She was posting every day.
She was being extremelyadventurous in her eating and
she was posting some things.
I was just like commenting like,oh my gosh.
Wow.
She said she didn't even postthe crazy stuff and I was like,
(25:22):
I thought I saw the crazy stuff.
Ralitsa (25:24):
I admire people who can be that adventurous when it
comes to food.
Maybe earlier on in life Iwould've been more, but now not
so much.
Ice cream flavors, I, I cannotcomment on, but I know that
breakfast, for example, is verydifferent in Asia and what they
eat for breakfast is verydifferent.
I constantly ask people, whatare you having today?
What are you eating today?
Tell me what are you seeingtoday?
Send me a photo.
Russel (25:44):
I love that.
Embrace the differences of, ofthe different cultures.
I can see that would make a veryfun and vibrant environment.
When you think about the futureof Twelve Legs, what does that
look like?
What are your goals, hopes anddreams?
Ralitsa (25:56):
For the near future, I, I don't mean to be talking
about, you know, topics that canbe, again, scrutinized and
easily kind of argued with, butI personally believe that we
live in a little bit of avolatile economy right now.
Our short-term goals would bejust to maintain.
If we can maintain, maybe grow alittle bit, we'd be happy.
(26:16):
That's the short term.
If we can grow a lot, awesome.
We'll take it, don't get mewrong.
But the goal is, don't lose whatyou've established.
If you can build on it a littlebit, wonderful.
That will be a win.
Long-term goals, we'd love toposition the team to further
grow, so we'd probably want togrow the team a little bit more.
We're at 15 right now, probably20 is where we would like to cap
(26:37):
it, at least from today'sstandpoint.
Enable the team to be a littlebit more autonomous.
Right now, Jason and I are stillvery involved with the business
on a daily basis, and I'm surethat a lot of people who run a
small business can relate tothat.
Just being able to empower andenable our people to do more and
just feel that ownership of, I'mnot just an employee, I do more
(26:59):
than that.
I actually have an impact beyondmy check-in and checkout every
day.
That is it in a conservativenutshell.
I'm a pretty conservativeperson.
Russel (27:07):
As you share, and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's obviously worked reallywell for you and you've created
a lot of stability for, foryour, your yourselves and your
family.
We can all admit regardless ofwhat side of the spectrum we
might be on of that we are ininteresting times, um,
economically and, and in allsorts of ways.
So sometimes, yeah, it, it'ssmart to just embrace what might
be the road ahead, albeituncertain.
(27:29):
Rather than, you know, hope isnot a plan.
Hope is not a strategy as folkslike to say, oh, endless growth
when, when the environment mightnot be right for that.
Ain't nothing wrong with that atall.
In fact, it's uh, it's probablya lot smarter approach, um, by
all means.
I love to hear it.
Ralitsa (27:43):
Thank you for not completely scrutinizing me.
Russel (27:46):
No, if you heard any scrutinizing there, no
scrutinizing at all.
I think it's truly, I do trulymean that.
I think it's smart business.
I think probably even going backto American culture a little bit
in general, like it, it probablyover glorifies growth.
Ultimately where, where I trackwith people is, look, this whole
business thing needs to createthe life you want.
And if it's not going down thatpath and then we're doing
(28:07):
something wrong, we need to takea take a step back and, and
reassess and say, how do I makethis thing create the life I
want?
What is comfortable and rightfor me and my family, or whoever
you wanna bring into that fold.
But, um, that is the name ofthis game.
Ralitsa (28:19):
Such a great point.
And truly, I honestly believethat that's why some people
decide to start a business oftheir own in pursuit of that,
right?
And other, others decide thebetter route is to stay as an
employee.
And there's nothing wrong witheither case.
It's what you just said.
As long as you're happy and youlove what you do on a daily
basis, not every day, you maynot love every day of it, but
when you draw the line, as longas you're happy, then, then it's
(28:40):
worth it, whatever that may be.
Russel (28:42):
Yeah.
We're not gonna love every dayand quite, and point of fact if
weeks, if we expect to, right,it's what are, what are they?
Is it like expectations of theenemy of happiness or something
like that.
We're setting ourselves up forfailure, but, um, so true.
What a great perspective.
Wonderful stuff.
Thank you for sharing so manywonderful parts of your journey.
My last question for you is areentrepreneurs born or are they
(29:02):
made?
Ralitsa (29:02):
Oh, what a great question.
Oh gosh.
I think it depends on thecontext that you're coming from.
I believe that as human beings,we all carry in our hearts.
The desire for being independentand being an entrepreneur means
that you are independent, youare calling the shots, you're
making the decisions, and you'realso, um, responsible for all
(29:23):
the outcomes, whatever those maybe.
Russel (29:25):
Ain't that the truth?
Ralitsa (29:26):
I think the context of all of us, one way or another,
predetermines somehow theoverall perception of, yes, I
can or want to be anentrepreneur versus not.
Cultural differences or culturalcontexts, uh, family context,
just opportunities along theway.
You either need to be a big risktaker to jump into this, or you
(29:47):
need to really be smart for aperiod of time.
How you position yourself to beable to take the leap?
And in our situation, we werejust very disciplined for a
period of time to be able totake the leap.
Both Jason's family and myfamily, um, have entrepreneurs.
Both of our dads ran their ownsmall businesses, so that's what
we grew up with.
And it looked cool.
Russel (30:06):
There you go.
It's in the blood.
And here you are.
Wonderful answer.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout Twelve Legs, I think you
might have shared a little bitearlier, but we'll replug it.
Where can they go?
Ralits (30:16):
Twelvelegsmarketing.com, all spelled out, uh, is our
website.
We're also on Facebook, YouTube.
Those are the two main socialmedia channels.
LinkedIn as well, actually.
My bad.
Our website is probably a greatstarting point.
Russel (30:27):
And check out that documentary.
I forgot to ask also, what doesTwelve Legs mean?
Ralitsa (30:32):
Started with two humans and two dogs, a total of twelve.
Russel (30:36):
That is twelve legs.
All right.
There you go.
Simple.
Love it.
All right, well, wonderfulstuff, Ralitsa, thank you so
much for taking the time outtayour day to share the, all the
parts of your journey.
Learned so many lessons.
We talked about ice cream andthe just embracing diversity and
having a diverse culture andteam and prepare for the unknown
and conservative is a goodthing.
(30:57):
Just so many wonderful nuggetsyou shared.
Really appreciate you taking thetime to do that.
Ralitsa (31:00):
Thank you Russel.
It's been a true pleasure tomeet you, to talk to you, to
learn from you'cause I'velearned quite a bit from our
discussions as well.
I look forward to our pathscrossing again at some point in
the future.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
(31:20):
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
(31:41):
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
I was working in corporate America at the time,
developing a campaign for one ofthe products that we were
selling.
The whole premise was get yourducks in a row, um, with
training, consulting, so serioustopic, but trying to put a light
spin on it with rubber ducks andall that jazz.
(32:03):
I was emailing my boss at thetime, giving him a report on
where we stand with all thepreparation and the subject
line.
I typed very quickly and I didnot double check it.
That's why I overanalyze anddouble and triple check
everything because instead ofget your ducks in a row, I had
to switch the U with an I in theword ducks.
And he was very cool.
His response was, maybe youwanna spell check things before
(32:25):
you send out communication.
And, um, that has stuck with me.
People give me a hard time, giveme a hard time around that, um,
quite a bit.
Double check your words.
Russel (32:34):
You're probably not the first person that's done
something along those lines,but, you know, just, I mean, to
the point, you could havemisspelled a lot of other words
in that, um, in that sentenceand wouldn't have been a cool
story like this.
But you, you happen tomisspelled the right word with
the right letter.
And now we have a story.
Ralitsa (32:49):
There you go.
Russel (32:50):
All right, lesson learned.
Some lessons come funnier andharder than others.
Ralitsa (32:53):
Indeed.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What do monthly finance reviews, a conservative budget,
and ice cream have in common?
They are the not so secretingredients behind building an
Emmy winning agency.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast.
I'm your host Russel.
On today's episode, I'm joinedby Raltisa Carter, co-founder of
12 Legs Marketing, a digitalmarketing and video production
(01:02):
agency based out of ColoradoSprings.
Releases shares how financialdiscipline, a love for
storytelling and a global teamstructure, have allowed her and
her partner to grow sustainablyeven during unpredictable times.
We also talk about the momenttheir passion project turned
into an Emmy win, the lessonsthey've learned about leading
(01:22):
with purpose, and yes, why icecream is part of their monthly
business ritual.
You will walk away with a freshperspective on growth that
doesn't require burnout ormassive risk, and how staying
grounded in your values can beyour agency's greatest
competitive advantage.
So grab a scoop and enjoy thestory.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Ralitsa Carter withTwelve Legs Marketing with us
(01:45):
here today.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today Ralitsa.
Ralitsa (01:48):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to talk to you.
Russel (01:50):
The pleasure is all mine.
Real quick, actually, you knowwhat, Before we get into all
this agency stuff, we were justchatting.
You're in the Colorado area.
We are chatting about skiing andthe holiday break and all that.
Are you a skier?
Do you love the snow?
How do you like living inColorado?
Ralitsa (02:06):
I love Colorado.
I love living in Colorado.
I do love the snow.
Not a fan of the bitter cold butcomes with the territory.
I used to be a skier.
I'm now a snowboarder, but I'mkind of thinking whether I
should switch back to skiing, sotime will show.
Russel (02:18):
All right.
That's the real battle in theworld of skiing is skiers versus
snowboarders.
Where do you sit on that?
Are you like the mediator in anyof those conversations?
What does that look like?
Ralitsa (02:26):
I tend to be the mediator in many conversations.
I've been scrutinized for somany years.
We're switching from skiing tosnowboarding and how much
snowboarders, you know, scrapethe snow off of the, the, the
tracks and all that.
But my main reason for switchingwas really the comfort of the
shoes, to be fairly honest withyou.
Russel (02:43):
Oh, right.
Oh, I feel that.
I feel that in my soul.
Ralitsa (02:46):
Yep.
Anyway, I am, I am contemplatingswitching back.
We'll see how it goes.
It's getting harder and harderwith age.
Take those falls on my behind.
Russel (02:55):
I think that's, that's my hesitation to do snowboarding
for, for a hot minute.
My son's a snowboarder and I'm askier.
We traded at the end of one dayand just kind of down at the, at
the bunny hill side of things,and I think I lasted about two
minutes trying to snowboard,fell in some awkward position
and was like, you know what?
I, I don't know if my body couldsurvive learning this, so we'll
stick to skiing, but the wholeboots thing, man.
I would pay a very large sum ofmoney for someone to invent very
(03:18):
comfortable ski boots.
Ralitsa (03:19):
I am surprised that nobody has to be fairly honest,
but hey, maybe a a, anopportunity there for business.
Russel (03:25):
We need like the military to really wanna invest
in ski.
But it seems like so many greatinventions come out of the, the
military world of when they go,wanna spend a bunch of money on
something.
If there's any generals outthere listening, maybe they can,
um, maybe they can make this apriority in, in the budget, but,
alright.
That was a fun conversation.
Let's skip back to Twelve LegsMarketing.
What do you do and who do you doit for?
Ralitsa (03:46):
At Twelve Links Marketing, we, we strive to map
or, or match rather, creativitywith strategy.
We specialize in videoproduction and digital
marketing.
We have a portfolio of a varietyof clients, to be fairly honest
with you.
From the start of the, you know,initiation of the agency, we've
developed a portfolio that's notnecessarily in one niche.
(04:06):
Over the last six, seven years,we actually developed a
dedicated team to the rentalindustry.
And when I say rental, thatincludes heavy equipment, tools,
party and events.
I can dive further in if you'dlike.
Russel (04:16):
Yeah, no, we'll go way deeper into that.
But, uh, I love that.
Very cool space and I don'tthink you dropped it, but, and
we will get to this later aswell.
You didn't say Emmy awardwinning, uh, any, anywhere in
there.
You're just being humble?
Ralitsa (04:29):
I am being humble.
Yes.
We have an award-winning videodepartment.
We won our first Emmy after sixor seven nominations before
that, just a year and a halfago.
And We're super proud of it andactually I can, I can show it to
you right here, boo yaa.
Russel (04:42):
Oh, oh, look at this.
I have never seen a genuine Emmybefore.
This is a real first.
This is a show first.
This is a Russel first.
That is beautiful.
Thank you for that.
That is awesome.
Congratulations.
And, and I mean, Just getting anEmmy and then you said six or
seven nominations.
That is incredible unto itself.
All right, well, we're gonnahave to figure out all the
secret sauce that that's allowedyou to be able to do that.
(05:04):
But before we do that, I wannahear about young Ralitsa and
what was she trying to do withher life?
Who did she wanna be when shegrew up?
Go back to like kindergarten.
I don't know.
Something a way, way back, along time ago.
Ralitsa (05:16):
Kindergarten probably wouldn't be very telling of who
I want it to be, but, um, I've,um, so I've lived on three
continents, traveled a lot, beenvery fortunate to have an
extremely supportive parents,family in general, when it came
to my, to choosing myprofession.
Initially I was preparing to bean architect because I love
mathematics and I love drawing.
But then I absolutely byaccident met somebody who was
(05:38):
getting ready to apply foranimation school.
That kind of piqued my interest.
I found a world in which youcould draw and create life and
be behind the scenes, behind thecamera,'cause I don't like to be
in front of the camera too much,so I pursued my education and
career originally in graphicdesign and animation.
I worked in that field for a fewyears, started my own studio,
and very quickly came to realizethat in art school they don't
(06:01):
teach you much business skills.
Trying to run my own animationstudio was an interesting
experience.
Russel (06:07):
Is that why there's so many starving artists out there
is because they're just notteaching any, any business
programs in art school?
Ralitsa (06:13):
You know what, there, it, it could be, and gosh, don't
quote me.
It very possibly could be whenyou create art, you really
create with your heart and everypiece is your baby.
It's very hard to sell yourselfin a professional manner.
So yes, it's possible thatbusiness skills lacking in art
school, have something to dowith that.
But anyway, fast forward jumpedup on from Europe to the US to
(06:34):
do my master's degree.
I was super fortunate to strikea job with an awesome agency
outta LA.
Had great mentors, worked onfantastic accounts, and that's
really what got me started inthe digital space.
It was a serendipitous alignmentof events.
Russel (06:48):
Wow.
All right.
We're gonna come back to that,but you said you lived on three
continents.
Where have you lived and, and,and give us the goods or where,
where, where should we besuggesting people to visit or
even live?
Ralitsa (06:58):
That's very subjective.
Where should you visit?
I'm originally from Bulgaria,Eastern Europe.
In Europe, I've lived inBulgaria, Germany, Italy, and
the UK.
And then, uh, with my parents, Iactually had the great
opportunity to live in Pakistan,in Asia.
I've traveled throughout Asiaquite a bit as well.
Pakistan has a very bad rep inthe media.
I have very warm feelings.
(07:19):
We met great people and we stillstay in touch with a lot of the
people we met and knew there.
I'd recommend if you're braveand you're open-minded to
possibly visit.
But uh, yeah, so Asia, Europe,and now the US.
Russel (07:32):
What's your favorite spot?
And you, you don't have to saythe US.
What's been your favorite sofar?
Were you saying Pakistan?
Was it Pakistan?
Ralitsa (07:37):
My favorite.
No, no, I wouldn't say it wasPak, Pakistan is definitely an
experience.
I love the food, definitely anexperience.
If I could pick, and it's abattle between two places, if I
could pick where to live, onewould be the Caribbean.
I just love the warm waters andwhite sand beaches, and the
other one would be Italy.
I am a big, big fan of Italy.
Russel (07:55):
Trying to get my wife and kids to move to Italy and
it's just not going well.
On the dream bucket list.
Ralitsa (08:00):
Oh, well.
Can you start with a shorterperiod of time, a couple of
months?
Russel (08:03):
Not wrong.
And at that point, I would justbe like, kidnapping, be like, by
the way, kids, I already soldour house at home and, um, you
know, there's nothing to go backto.
So guess what?
We're living in Italy.
That's not a bad idea.
Thank you for that.
We'll work on that.
Well then, how many languages doyou speak?
I gotta know this too.
Ralitsa (08:18):
Oh yeah.
Fluently, I only speak twolanguages, Bulgarian and
English.
I speak a little bit of German.
I studied Italian.
But yeah, fluently is just thosetwo.
In my family, my sister took thelanguage strength.
She's the one who mastered quitea few languages.
I'm kind of the ordinary mortal.
Russel (08:33):
All right.
Can you say, welcome to AnAgency Story podcast in
Bulgarian?
Ralitsa (08:37):
Story, uh, Agency Story Podcast.
Let me do this again.
Dobre doshli v An Agency StoryPodcast
Russel (08:44):
Love that.
And I can only assume it'scorrect because I know zero
words in Bulgarian.
Ralitsa (08:48):
I promise.
Russel (08:48):
I trust you.
I don't wanna anger any otherBulgarian listeners we have
here.
All right.
Well, let's circle back to theagency life.
You've had a wonderful career,traveled all over the place, and
sounds like it primed you andsounds like you even had some of
your own things going on, butall prime to tell us how the
origins of Twelve Legs cameabout.
Ralitsa (09:06):
The origins of Twelve Links Marketing came about
really from realizing betweenmyself and Jason that we came to
a point where we both hadcorporate jobs.
We were doing great, fantasticemployers, great opportunities,
but on both sides, him andtelevision me, um, on the
marketing side of things, we sawopportunities to do things
better and ultimately to make aninvestment of our own and
(09:28):
ourselves.
It was not an easy decision tomake because for anybody who has
started a business and kind ofjumped from being a full-time
employee with all the benefitsthat come with that to running
your own thing, you know, therisks are not small and the
adjustments you need to make arenot small either.
But it really came out from bothof us being passionate for each
of our realm of work.
Seeing an opportunity to pairour strengths and, um, just
(09:52):
being in a situation where wecould afford to start a
business, see how it goes.
So far, knock on wood, it's beenthe right choice for us.
Russel (09:59):
You got an Emmy, so, um, it seems to be,
Ralitsa (10:02):
We got it.
Oh my gosh, yes, we did.
Russel (10:04):
Yes.
Good decision.
As I understand it, you guys,you know, I mean yes, talked to
so many folks and that, thatwhole risk piece.
Some folks wanna walk right upto the door before they'd make
that leap.
Some just say, screw it.
I'm jumping in it.
But as I understand it, you guyskind of staggered your leaving
the corporate world a littlebit.
What was that like?
And I, I believe you were thesecond one to jump on board, so
(10:25):
did you have some jealousythere?
Just tell us kind of how that,how that transition worked out
for you guys.
Ralitsa (10:29):
Great question.
So yes, Jason was the first one.
He officially started TwelveLegs Marketing.
He was the first to dive into itright away.
The transition itself, so forfull transparency, uh, apart
from business partners, we'realso partners in life.
We're a married couple, so itcame down to, you know, running
the numbers and making sure thatwe could afford that change of
(10:50):
pace.
Jason started the business onthe video production side of
things and um, he's just supertalented.
I really have nothing more tosay.
He's very good at networking,started developing a portfolio
of video clients, startedsmaller initially and then grew
that portfolio.
For about a year and a couple ofmonths, he was full-time in
Twelve Legs Marketing.
I was developing some of ourdigital portfolio on the side,
(11:12):
uh, while keeping my corporatejob.
I'm not saying that people whoare fully employed should have
side gigs.
That's, I think, what a lot ofpeople do, so as long as the two
don't influence negatively eachother, you're good.
But yeah, was there jealousy?
Yes.
There was at times jealousy.
I have to admit, I'm human.
It was really the last fewmonths, which were extremely,
uh, challenging for me just froma personal standpoint because I
(11:35):
had to stay focused on mycorporate job because that was
my full-time employer, whileknowing that the transition was
coming and I was truly excitedabout it.
I just wanted to give my wholeheart to Twelve Legs Marketing
and, and yeah, it, it workedout.
Russel (11:49):
Yes.
Clearly.
so When you were like looking, Imean, did you guys have a
certain threshold?
You're like, okay, when we gethere, or, or even just set a
date, hey, by this date, youknow, kind of far off just to
give yourself a goalpost, or howdid you really know what, when
that time was gonna be right foryou to actually make that
transition?
Ralitsa (12:05):
That's also a great question.
I am a lot more prone toanalyzing every little detail.
Jason is a little bit faster tomake decisions and just take
risks.
It was really about crunchingdown the numbers, making sure
that we knew what our bareminimum expenses were.
And once we were able to bringthat from the business, was the
(12:25):
time that we could afford for meto join full-time as well.
'Cause we knew that if we couldcover our foundational needs,
then it was only upwards andonwards from there.
So it was numbers.
Russel (12:35):
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
Now what happens a lot, right,and there's just all that
excitement and that rigor thatit takes, like, all right, can I
actually pull this offfinancially?
And then I will say, some folksout there like to, like, to
forget this whole numbers part.
Did any of that work help youjust as you were running and
growing the business and evenmaybe kind of past the early
stage of just that attention todetail when it, as it relates to
(12:56):
numbers?
Ralitsa (12:57):
Yes, absolutely, yes.
The way we manage our personalportfolio, financial portfolio
and our business financialportfolio is with a lot of
discipline.
It's really easy to get excitedand just start overspending.
Especially as a new business,you have so many needs.
You need software, you needemployees, you need processes,
you need somebody to consult youon how to do things.
You need marketing dollars,right?
(13:18):
It's so easy to start justspend, overspending, um, not
thinking through, well, whathappens if you run into a tough
situation.
So truly the way we'vestructured, our, you know, from
a financial standpoint, TwelveLegs Marketing is we always have
a threshold of three months tocover all of our expenses for
the business.
And then each year we put aside,aim to put aside about 30% into
(13:38):
that fund and then keep 30% forinvestments.
Could have we grown faster if wespent more money?
Yes.
But that would've increased ourrisks tremendously as well.
So we've always taken a slightlymore conservative approach and I
think it's just, um, uh, hadbenefits for us.
We've never taken a loan for thebusiness.
It's been good.
Russel (13:56):
Are you using, I mean, some folks, you know, that
sounds similar, maybe notexactly like a profit first
framework or where did you getthis savvy of just how to
approach your, your, the, thefinancial aspects of your
business?
Ralitsa (14:06):
This is gonna sound very childish, but from my mom
and dad, honestly.
In Europe, uh, especially at thetime when I was growing up,
everything was cash based.
You either had the cash in yourhand and you could spend it, or
guess what?
You couldn't spend it.
I think that financialdiscipline came on from a very
early age.
And, you know, I observed how myparents managed the books for
(14:26):
the family and that transitionedinto my way of thinking and
methodology.
I'm just very grateful'causeJason has been very open to
those type of recommendations,'cause in the US it's a little
bit of a different approach towhere credit is used a lot more.
Which again, can have a lot ofpositives and I'm not fully
against it as long as you do itsmartly.
It just came from my childhoodand where I grew up.
Russel (14:46):
I know for sure, I mean, I, I think credit card and just
the digital banking systemperiod, right, has caused us to
spend more.
I remember the days, I'm, I'mold enough that I had to balance
a checkbook when I got my firstaccount.
And so if I spend, I, I knewthat I, you know, right, you
couldn't go over back then therewasn't really even a lot of
overdraft type situations backthen for, uh, for a young
student account.
(15:07):
You just had to be prudent intracking and watch your dollars
and then now you don't.
I mean, you should, but youdon't.
Ralitsa (15:13):
Absolutely.
It's all about instantgratification and, and the
system makes it available.
Russel (15:17):
All right.
Then last question on thatfront, I mean, like, any tools
you use out there or anythingthat, that just helps make that
process easier for you?
Or is it just good old fashionedExcel and, and, uh, and grit?
Ralitsa (15:28):
The good old fashioned Excel is definitely part our
daily lives.
Not going to make that up.
For the business, we haveQuickBooks.
We make sure that we review ourexpense reports on a monthly
basis.
We if, you know, make sure thatif there's opportunities to
optimize expenses, we're onthose.
It also allows us to make surethat we're not, you know, for
example, paying for licenses wedon't use.
(15:49):
Uh, staying on top of our profitloss reports.
Really just having grit insticking to reviewing your
numbers, which can be verytedious and boring, boring on a
monthly basis, but it helps.
Russel (15:58):
Any way to make that fun?
Do like a wine night or youjust, you just grin and bear it
and say it's numbers time,let's, uh, let's get this done?
Ralitsa (16:05):
We go out for ice cream.
We really do, yes sir.
Russel (16:09):
Okay.
There you go.
See this, this is what I love,right?
This is not weird if it workskind of stuff like, you know, we
gotta find our incentiveshowever we can to do some of
these things that, yeah, aren'texciting, aren't sexy.
But they're so important.
One of the very common threadsof so many agencies I talk to
that kind of get past thestruggle phase and call it the
success phase, is that theyunderstood their numbers and
they took the time to spend withtheir numbers at, at not just a
(16:32):
cursory level.
What did we bring in and whatdid we put out, but what are the
details behind that?
How do we make meaningfuldecisions from looking at that
number?
I love that detail of do it andgo get ice cream after or
whatever your, your vice is ofchoice.
That's beautiful.
Wonderful insights there on thefinancial front.
Now I've gotta understand moreabout how, how does one win an
Emmy?
Tell us just a little bit aboutthe process.
(16:53):
Like how do you find out?
What was it like?
Did you get to do an acceptancespeech on the stage?
Come on, tell, give us thesedetails.
Ralitsa (16:59):
The show itself, the award show is, is really
emotional and it's, it's veryexciting.
It's a red carpet event, um,it's a black tie and whatever,
fancy dress for the, for thegirls, right?
We have more options than theboys usually.
The way you find out is you, soyou apply for an Emmy award
amongst everybody else withinyour region, and you receive a
formal letter from the Emmystelling you, hey, you've been
(17:22):
nominated and then you attendthis glamorous event.
Then you, you keep fingers,toes, legs crossed, everything,
everything, everything untilyour category comes.
They present everybody who'sbeen nominated in the category
and they announce the winner.
Obviously there's a moment ofhold on.
Did I hear this correct?
Did they really say, uh, youwalk up to the stage, you
receive your award?
The show goes pretty fast paced,so you know, you don't do a
(17:44):
speech on the stage, but to befairly honest, it's just enough
to hear your name announced andto grab the shiny awards that's
waiting for you, and thenobviously celebrate the night
away with your team.
Russel (17:55):
Very fair.
What did you win it for?
What was the project?
Ralitsa (17:57):
The project was actually with a local artist,
um, in Colorado Springs.
She actually started her artsbusiness in Santa Fe, New
Mexico, moved to ColoradoSprings a few years ago.
She has this extremelyinteresting condition, uh, where
when she hears music, she seesdifferent shapes in front of
her.
That's what she paints.
(18:18):
The piece that we produced is a,is a feature, it's, it's a mini
documentary, uh, called I PaintMusic, and it basically
showcases her art.
It was tied to, um, actually anexhibition she had coming up.
The timing of everything workedout very well.
That was it.
Again, Jason is super talented,so of course there was
cinematography that happenedbehind the scenes.
There was post-production thathappened afterwards.
(18:39):
But I would say the key isfinding the stories that stand
out, that not your everydaystories, and then being able to
tell the story itself in astrong enough way to either
revoke an emotion or make astatement.
And that's what he was able toput on the screen.
Russel (18:54):
Wow.
So was this like a clientproject or just like a passion
uh, project on the side you guysdid?
Ralitsa (18:59):
A little bit of both.
We do work with a lot of artistsin our community.
Actually, during Covid, westarted a series, um, Elevated
By Art, and the whole idea was,uh, so during the pandemic, one
of the mostly impacted from abusiness standpoint group were
artists across the board, notjust in Colorado Springs.
We wanted to just driveawareness of how art helps us
(19:20):
overcome difficult situations.
In that specific case, wefeatured a lot of artists and
what they were doing throughoutour community to just bring the
spirits up during a very toughtime when we were not allowed to
be normal, right?
Or be out and about social.
From there, we continued stayinginvolved in the arts community
and telling stories.
That's why I'm saying it is apassion project to a certain
extent.
(19:40):
But Karen Mosbacher, the artistwith whom we produced I Paint
Music, uh, also is a client ofthe agency.
It's a mixed relationship there.
Russel (19:48):
I gotcha.
Hey, there's nothing wrong withwin-win situations, right?
Passion projects turned clientprojects turned Emmys.
If we can make multifaceted winsin this business, then we're
doing pretty well for ourselves.
Where does one stream this?
I gotta go watch this now I'm,I'm very just fascinated by the
concept itself.
Ralitsa (20:03):
Our YouTube channel is probably the easiest way to find
it.
Twelve Legs Marketing, uh, allspelled out.
We have a playlist withaward-winning videos, so it's
towards the top, if I'm notmistaken.
And then our website as well, ofcourse has it too.
Russel (20:15):
Okay.
I paint music.
Is that what it's called?
Ralitsa (20:17):
Yes.
Yep.
Russel (20:18):
All right.
I'm gonna wait checking this outafterwards.
Very fascinating.
I mean, what, What motivatesyou?
I mean, Going back to that kindof passion side of, you know,
saying during Covid.
I imagine like a lot ofbusiness, especially early on,
you probably have your ownstruggles and, and things you're
worried about.
What motivated you to take onthat passion project as you
shared?
Ralitsa (20:35):
You know what we, both Jason and I, throughout our
careers, we've always been invery dynamic environments where
we meet a lot of people on adaily basis, and everyone we
meet seems to have aninteresting story to tell.
You just need to dig it out.
In this specific situation,again, it was very sad.
It was very depressing.
It was very stressful.
Yes, COVID had a lot ofchallenges for us as a business
(20:58):
as well, but we were literallyjust every day trying to find
the positives in the wholesituation and what are we
learning from it and how is itmaking us adjust to overcome
something that nobody expectedwould happen.
Both of us enjoy art.
We buy art for our home.
We produce art.
Video and photography is a formof art as well.
It was kind of a no brainertrying to stay positive.
(21:19):
How do we stay positive?
What keeps us out of this funkof the situation?
Oh, well, art does and all ofits forms.
Cause art is painting, art ismusic, art is cooking.
Art is anything that reallybrings joy to your heart.
That's really where it startedfrom.
And again, just being involvedwith the arts community, we just
knew of stories of people whoare doing cool things.
(21:39):
We're like, well, how aboutsince we have time in our hands,
we just start telling storiesAnd it worked out.
Russel (21:43):
I've already got a title for this, so give, give back and
eat ice cream.
Find ways to get past some ofthe struggling, uh, parts of
business, but really speaks to,right, obviously, COVID was an
unprecedented time, but youknow, you got really two choices
when you're, when you'restruggling, your business,
whether it's COVID or just, justsome of the day-to-day struggles
of, to, to focus and lament onthe struggles or to just be
(22:04):
positive, look for ways to help,look for ways to give back.
Even in this very great exampleyou shared, right, just how that
can and will come back to you ifwe can just keep our heads up
and, and focus on doing goodthings.
Awesome.
Wonderful.
what else is interesting aboutyour agency?
I bet we're not even on the, thecusp of all the cool things
you've done.
Ralitsa (22:22):
You know what, any business is who it is, what it
is, thanks to its team and groupof people who support the
mission every single day.
One of the things that came outof that unprecedented time that
we just spoke about, uh, wasthat we had to pivot and change.
And just like many othercompanies, our team became
hybrid.
We still have people who arebased in Colorado Springs.
(22:43):
We have our physical officewhere we love to go to every
day.
I personally need an officespace to work out of.
I cannot work from home all thetime.
But we were able to develop aninternational team.
We have a small office inBarcelona, Spain, Europe makes
sense.
We love Barcelona, so hey, whynot?
Russel (22:59):
Why not?
Ralitsa (23:00):
Then we have a couple of other employees, uh, from
Eastern Europe full-time.
We have one person in thePhilippines.
We have one person in Canada andquite a few in the US so we,
we're able to develop thismulticultural team, which it's
great, you know, greatprofessionals.
We work together very well everyday.
We achieve great, thi greatthings, but we also have that
component of being able to justshare exciting, cool things from
(23:23):
around the globe that youwouldn't have access to on a
daily basis unless you work witha global team.
That's a cool aspect of who weare.
It's work.
Work is work.
Love what we do.
We're proud of our project.
Russel (23:35):
We gotta love what we do.
I think that's an importantconcept there.
How have you managed, I mean, Byhaving, you know, I imagine all
kinds of disparity just in timezones alone.
Have you found a way to makeyour work more asynchronous?
How do you navigate just the,this, yeah, this the time
difference alone by having sucha global, diverse team.
Ralitsa (23:52):
Flexibility on everybody's part is, is big in
this whole picture.
Actually that's probably beenone of the more challenging
things for us, is finding theright team members who can
support this type of work?
When I say flexibility, uh, weaim to have at least three hours
overlap between everybody everysingle day, which is when we
gather, whether as, as a groupas a whole, or in many groups,
(24:14):
work on projects, communicate.
And then apart from the humanaspect of being able to stay
flexible, professional, andreally accountable, because,
yeah, while I'm asleep, I'mexpecting the work is getting
done by the team.
Also having very well definedprocesses in place.
I would be lying if I said thatour processes are perfect.
There's always room forimprovement, and we always run
(24:35):
into things which are like, oh,we didn't think of that.
Let's adjust it.
Let's tweak it.
Let's improve it.
Between the human factor,finding the right group of
people to surround yourselfwith, and then really
establishing the processes sothere's clarity of who's doing
what and how it's being done.
That's truly how we've been ableto create this team.
Russel (24:51):
And ice cream.
Ralitsa (24:52):
Ice cream.
Ice cream is always great.
Russel (24:53):
Team, ice cream.
I imagine they've got someunique flavors, uh, of ice cream
where some of your folks work.
Ralitsa (24:58):
Oh gosh.
Especially in Asia.
Yes.
Russel (25:01):
What do, do you know of one?
I actually have a, an agency Iwork with, she just got back on
a trip.
I think she went to like,Thailand and, and maybe a
couple, oh, maybe Vietnam.
Maybe Laos, I can't rememberexactly.
She was posting every day.
She was being extremelyadventurous in her eating and
she was posting some things.
I was just like commenting like,oh my gosh.
Wow.
She said she didn't even postthe crazy stuff and I was like,
(25:22):
I thought I saw the crazy stuff.
Ralitsa (25:24):
I admire people who can be that adventurous when it
comes to food.
Maybe earlier on in life Iwould've been more, but now not
so much.
Ice cream flavors, I, I cannotcomment on, but I know that
breakfast, for example, is verydifferent in Asia and what they
eat for breakfast is verydifferent.
I constantly ask people, whatare you having today?
What are you eating today?
Tell me what are you seeingtoday?
Send me a photo.
Russel (25:44):
I love that.
Embrace the differences of, ofthe different cultures.
I can see that would make a veryfun and vibrant environment.
When you think about the futureof Twelve Legs, what does that
look like?
What are your goals, hopes anddreams?
Ralitsa (25:56):
For the near future, I, I don't mean to be talking
about, you know, topics that canbe, again, scrutinized and
easily kind of argued with, butI personally believe that we
live in a little bit of avolatile economy right now.
Our short-term goals would bejust to maintain.
If we can maintain, maybe grow alittle bit, we'd be happy.
(26:16):
That's the short term.
If we can grow a lot, awesome.
We'll take it, don't get mewrong.
But the goal is, don't lose whatyou've established.
If you can build on it a littlebit, wonderful.
That will be a win.
Long-term goals, we'd love toposition the team to further
grow, so we'd probably want togrow the team a little bit more.
We're at 15 right now, probably20 is where we would like to cap
(26:37):
it, at least from today'sstandpoint.
Enable the team to be a littlebit more autonomous.
Right now, Jason and I are stillvery involved with the business
on a daily basis, and I'm surethat a lot of people who run a
small business can relate tothat.
Just being able to empower andenable our people to do more and
just feel that ownership of, I'mnot just an employee, I do more
(26:59):
than that.
I actually have an impact beyondmy check-in and checkout every
day.
That is it in a conservativenutshell.
I'm a pretty conservativeperson.
Russel (27:07):
As you share, and there's nothing wrong with that.
It's obviously worked reallywell for you and you've created
a lot of stability for, foryour, your yourselves and your
family.
We can all admit regardless ofwhat side of the spectrum we
might be on of that we are ininteresting times, um,
economically and, and in allsorts of ways.
So sometimes, yeah, it, it'ssmart to just embrace what might
be the road ahead, albeituncertain.
(27:29):
Rather than, you know, hope isnot a plan.
Hope is not a strategy as folkslike to say, oh, endless growth
when, when the environment mightnot be right for that.
Ain't nothing wrong with that atall.
In fact, it's uh, it's probablya lot smarter approach, um, by
all means.
I love to hear it.
Ralitsa (27:43):
Thank you for not completely scrutinizing me.
Russel (27:46):
No, if you heard any scrutinizing there, no
scrutinizing at all.
I think it's truly, I do trulymean that.
I think it's smart business.
I think probably even going backto American culture a little bit
in general, like it, it probablyover glorifies growth.
Ultimately where, where I trackwith people is, look, this whole
business thing needs to createthe life you want.
And if it's not going down thatpath and then we're doing
(28:07):
something wrong, we need to takea take a step back and, and
reassess and say, how do I makethis thing create the life I
want?
What is comfortable and rightfor me and my family, or whoever
you wanna bring into that fold.
But, um, that is the name ofthis game.
Ralitsa (28:19):
Such a great point.
And truly, I honestly believethat that's why some people
decide to start a business oftheir own in pursuit of that,
right?
And other, others decide thebetter route is to stay as an
employee.
And there's nothing wrong witheither case.
It's what you just said.
As long as you're happy and youlove what you do on a daily
basis, not every day, you maynot love every day of it, but
when you draw the line, as longas you're happy, then, then it's
(28:40):
worth it, whatever that may be.
Russel (28:42):
Yeah.
We're not gonna love every dayand quite, and point of fact if
weeks, if we expect to, right,it's what are, what are they?
Is it like expectations of theenemy of happiness or something
like that.
We're setting ourselves up forfailure, but, um, so true.
What a great perspective.
Wonderful stuff.
Thank you for sharing so manywonderful parts of your journey.
My last question for you is areentrepreneurs born or are they
(29:02):
made?
Ralitsa (29:02):
Oh, what a great question.
Oh gosh.
I think it depends on thecontext that you're coming from.
I believe that as human beings,we all carry in our hearts.
The desire for being independentand being an entrepreneur means
that you are independent, youare calling the shots, you're
making the decisions, and you'realso, um, responsible for all
(29:23):
the outcomes, whatever those maybe.
Russel (29:25):
Ain't that the truth?
Ralitsa (29:26):
I think the context of all of us, one way or another,
predetermines somehow theoverall perception of, yes, I
can or want to be anentrepreneur versus not.
Cultural differences or culturalcontexts, uh, family context,
just opportunities along theway.
You either need to be a big risktaker to jump into this, or you
(29:47):
need to really be smart for aperiod of time.
How you position yourself to beable to take the leap?
And in our situation, we werejust very disciplined for a
period of time to be able totake the leap.
Both Jason's family and myfamily, um, have entrepreneurs.
Both of our dads ran their ownsmall businesses, so that's what
we grew up with.
And it looked cool.
Russel (30:06):
There you go.
It's in the blood.
And here you are.
Wonderful answer.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout Twelve Legs, I think you
might have shared a little bitearlier, but we'll replug it.
Where can they go?
Ralits (30:16):
Twelvelegsmarketing.com, all spelled out, uh, is our
website.
We're also on Facebook, YouTube.
Those are the two main socialmedia channels.
LinkedIn as well, actually.
My bad.
Our website is probably a greatstarting point.
Russel (30:27):
And check out that documentary.
I forgot to ask also, what doesTwelve Legs mean?
Ralitsa (30:32):
Started with two humans and two dogs, a total of twelve.
Russel (30:36):
That is twelve legs.
All right.
There you go.
Simple.
Love it.
All right, well, wonderfulstuff, Ralitsa, thank you so
much for taking the time outtayour day to share the, all the
parts of your journey.
Learned so many lessons.
We talked about ice cream andthe just embracing diversity and
having a diverse culture andteam and prepare for the unknown
and conservative is a goodthing.
(30:57):
Just so many wonderful nuggetsyou shared.
Really appreciate you taking thetime to do that.
Ralitsa (31:00):
Thank you Russel.
It's been a true pleasure tomeet you, to talk to you, to
learn from you'cause I'velearned quite a bit from our
discussions as well.
I look forward to our pathscrossing again at some point in
the future.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
(31:20):
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
(31:41):
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
I was working in corporate America at the time,
developing a campaign for one ofthe products that we were
selling.
The whole premise was get yourducks in a row, um, with
training, consulting, so serioustopic, but trying to put a light
spin on it with rubber ducks andall that jazz.
(32:03):
I was emailing my boss at thetime, giving him a report on
where we stand with all thepreparation and the subject
line.
I typed very quickly and I didnot double check it.
That's why I overanalyze anddouble and triple check
everything because instead ofget your ducks in a row, I had
to switch the U with an I in theword ducks.
And he was very cool.
His response was, maybe youwanna spell check things before
(32:25):
you send out communication.
And, um, that has stuck with me.
People give me a hard time, giveme a hard time around that, um,
quite a bit.
Double check your words.
Russel (32:34):
You're probably not the first person that's done
something along those lines,but, you know, just, I mean, to
the point, you could havemisspelled a lot of other words
in that, um, in that sentenceand wouldn't have been a cool
story like this.
But you, you happen tomisspelled the right word with
the right letter.
And now we have a story.
Ralitsa (32:49):
There you go.
Russel (32:50):
All right, lesson learned.
Some lessons come funnier andharder than others.
Ralitsa (32:53):
Indeed.
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.