November 4, 2023 • 42 mins
In Episode 50, Michael and Julian talk about
1. St Louis. Julian has never visited the gateway to the West, but fortunately, Michael has.
2. The American Beard. Two clean-shaven guys talk about why American men are more likely to be bearded than their British counterparts. Lots of data, including that the majority of American women like a beard on a man.
Other Show Notes
Learn more about how America's culture developed in Julian Bishop's High, Wide, and Handsome.
Learn more about America's future in Julian's second book, Are We There Yet?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Moran (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to an American Journey,
a podcast about exploring thediverse and complex landscape of
America. My name is MichaelMoran. And together with my co
host, Julian Bishop, we will beembarking on a journey across
this great country to uncoverthe stories and experiences that
(00:36):
make America so unique. As toBritish journalists, Julian, I
always been fascinated byAmerica's rich history, its
cultural diversity, and itsenduring influence on the world.
And in this podcast, we aim todelve deeper into these topics
(00:58):
by talking to people from allwalks of life, for farmers in
the heartland, to techentrepreneurs in Silicon Valley,
for musicians in New Orleans, toactivists fighting for social
justice in New York. Through ourconversations, we hope to gain a
deeper understanding of thechallenges and opportunities
(01:20):
facing America today. And toshed light on the untold
stories, and perspectives thatoften go on heard. So join us on
this journey, as we explore themany facets of America and
discover the incredible peopleand stories that make this
country so
Julian Bishop (01:40):
extraordinary.
That's a different intro fromnormal microwaves that that is
Michael Moran (01:45):
Julian, because you've been playing with AI. And
that's what AI tells us AmericanJourney is now I was happy to go
along with it. But first of all,I don't believe I'm a
journalist. And secondly, someof the things that suggests we
shouldn't be doing out in thepodcast. But going forward, we
will endeavor to follow AI aslead and create the podcast
(02:07):
along the way they see it.
Julian Bishop (02:09):
I've been hearing all about how AI is gonna take
away and it's gonna get rid ofall of these low added value
jobs. So I thought I put yourrole into AI and civic could do
it better.
Michael Moran (02:22):
Well, I think usually what you're under
threat, Julian, because you'rethe journalist. Actually, it
could write at least what I do.
You know, if people face it, andI'm pretty certain that's not
going to be replaced just yet.
But that's your your redundant?
Julian Bishop (02:37):
Yeah, well, I have a feeling that some you do
a better job than AI currently.
So your job is safe for anotherfew episodes there, Michael.
That's good. So what are wetalking about this week, then?
Usually you you mentioned that?
Michael Moran (02:51):
Two things today, Julian? We're going to go to St.
Louis. And then we're going totalk about facial hair.
Julian Bishop (02:58):
Yes, the American beard.
Michael Moran (03:00):
It makes a beard.
Julian Bishop (03:01):
I've not been to St. Louis. So I guess I ought to
start it off and say, Should Igo Michael? Or why should I go?
Michael Moran (03:10):
First of all, are you going to St. Louis, or St.
Louis? Because I'm a bit. What'sthe word puzzle? Because I did a
bit of research as always. Andindeed, you know, when you can
go and go to Google, and itgives you pronunciations of
people's names or places.
Julian Bishop (03:29):
Oh, I never thought you took advantage of
that facility. Michael. Well,
Michael Moran (03:34):
suffice advice, and it was very clear St. Louis.
But of course, that can't beright. Because the film No,
because no, because the placewas named after Louie the Lloyds
was not it was it was Yeah. Wedon't call it King Louis the
way. Lewis assume King? I don'tthink so. Although he was when
he was American. That's what hewould be called. St. Louis. And
(03:57):
should you go? I'm going to sayyes.
Julian Bishop (04:01):
Is that it for the section? Are you going to
elaborate?
Michael Moran (04:04):
I will. I'm going to elaborate on. I've been there
but it was a stopover. So we'retalking about sort of overnight
and a day before move and was ittwo nights moving on? And I'm
gonna give a big shout out tothe Four Seasons Hotel. Because
the Four Seasons Hotel wasreally great. And you have a
great view.
Julian Bishop (04:22):
Did they have an ensuite bathroom?
Michael Moran (04:24):
They certainly did. Julian What are you think
we wouldn't have ensuitebathrooms? Have you
Julian Bishop (04:29):
remember that you found the one in Denver to ask
them whether they have anensuite bathroom after if you're
you're Yellowstone stroke,Yosemite stroke, all the other
national park experience?
Michael Moran (04:39):
Well, you're talking about the romantic
package. We didn't have theromantic magic. Yeah, but so
what's more as a fantastic viewof what is the one big reason
why people go to gateway to thewest gateway to the west. The
arch in itself, actually, Ithink it's worth going just to
see the arch. It's a little bitlike I suppose if you go to
(05:01):
London, you go and see theMillennium wheel or you go to
Paris, the Eiffel Tower, theartist is somewhat of a
spectacular feature.
Julian Bishop (05:12):
And can you do anything on the arch, you can go
a
Michael Moran (05:15):
bit, but actually, it's now what,
probably two or three yearssince we went, but actually the
exhibition in the area beforeyou go up, I could always make
everything managed, because asI'm going to say, it's a very
confined space. So you go up, Ithink in no more than, like four
(05:35):
pods of four sort of mechanicalthing that sort of takes you up
to the top of the arch. And thenit's a very restricted view,
like you're looking through. Soa pane of glass, but if you're
claustrophobic it's definitelynot the place to do things to
do. But the exhibition beside isreally interesting, because
because obviously, was built inwhat 60s Refinishing 65. And
(05:58):
since then, they they sort oftake you through all the famous
people or things that havehappened since then. So it's not
just about the art, there's asense of American history with
it don't quite like,
Julian Bishop (06:10):
Okay, I didn't really know what to make of it.
I've seen the image, obviously,multiple times, but I didn't
know whether it was, you know,one of those things, which is
worth saying, or, or something,which was some kind of a
gimmick, but sounds like youenjoyed seeing the arch.
Michael Moran (06:26):
Yeah, I mean, it is gimmick, but But I mean, my
understanding is it was exceptrepresent St. Louis, which was
the gateway to the west. SoNewpoint knows better
immediately. And this other timewhen the lands of the West was
being open, and that you youhave all these sort of newsreel
of, of people with wagons racingto get their land. And
(06:46):
understand St. Louis was thestarting point for that
Julian Bishop (06:49):
was and we'll come on to that a little bit
later. We'll talk about Lewisand Clark a little bit. Okay.
Michael Moran (06:54):
And we talked about Thomas Jefferson, because
it wasn't it is sort of idea orI certainly
Julian Bishop (06:59):
was Yeah, in fact, I think what we should do
is we should do a specificpodcast on Lewis and Clark,
because it's actually brilliantstory. Yeah. But I will do a
whole session on them becausethe story is so good. Apart from
the arch. What else is there todo in St. Louis, then Michael?
Michael Moran (07:15):
Well, you obviously go to the baseball
ground. And I didn't I did thosebefore for the Cardinals. What's
interesting about the baseball,they have a they have a stand,
which is outside of the stadiumacross the road with from which
you can watch the game. Soobviously, you can see the game
inside the stadium. But if youcross the road, they've got this
sort of shop and then they builtstands on top of the shop so you
(07:38):
can see the game
Julian Bishop (07:39):
outside. The gutter. Similar thing at Wrigley
Field in Chicago, the stadium isin a very residential area. And
then on top of the apartmentblocks outside the stadium,
they've got various differentvantage points for those for
those apartment blocks.
Michael Moran (07:55):
So So you should do that. Two things I didn't do
which I wish you had. It's got agood botanical gardens. And wait
for it. Wait for Julian. Youknew it was coming. He got a
train station like a trainstation, but no trains. Julian,
can you believe that?
Julian Bishop (08:13):
Oh, that's my ideal type of train station.
Michael Moran (08:15):
In fact, an oil open in 1894. It was the largest
train station in the world.
Right. And they had 32 tracksgoing into it. Oh, wow. But
sadly, I don't think St. Louisis well known in the UK, but I'd
appreciate it. It had both thewelfare. And it's at the
Olympics there. Did you know
Julian Bishop (08:36):
that's right.
Yeah. It was the first OlympicGames held outside the outside
of Europe. So 90 No for thoseOlympic Games. And it was also
the year of of the welfare,which we talked about welfare,
some previous podcasts and ithad the welfare which attracted
I think 20 million visitors.
Yeah. It's really quitesomething for, you know, for
(08:59):
that time and you know, thetransport links. Despite its 30
tracks, the the transport linkswouldn't have been great about
at that time.
Michael Moran (09:07):
Well, they were taking 100,000 people a day,
apparently. And obviously withthe birth of airlines and the
demise of the railways. Itclosed in 1978. In fact, there
is an Amtrak station, butapparently, it's nowhere near as
impressive as what is now it's ahotel. Wait for it, and
(09:27):
aquarium. And it hosts the St.
Louis we'll. So consequently,how have the mighty fallen from
the large? Well, is he in theworld to an aquarium.
Julian Bishop (09:39):
It is one of these cities whose population
has dramatically fallen over thelast few decades. 1/5 of all the
houses in St. Louis are lyingempty. So you know, I think it
is a city which had a betterpast than its current. Maybe it
has a better future ahead of it,but I think it has a long
(10:02):
alongside many other US cities,it has experienced some decline
Michael Moran (10:07):
and sanding with decline goes. Violence, I think
it's something like number 14 inthe world, most dangerous cities
when it comes to murders. Imean, I have to say, only
finding that outretrospectively, my impression
of it was a quite gooey GreenCity. I mean, very nice,
pleasant. So the bits we saw ofit in the center was really
(10:30):
nice. I thought it was, I think
Julian Bishop (10:32):
it's some of the suburbs where they've had, you
know, some of these issues, andthey've had, I think, you know,
some of those sort of BlackLives Matters, things started in
that in, in some of the suburbsin St. Louis, it does have some
issues that it needs to resolve,we go back to Lewis and Clark.
That is where the Lewis andClark exhibition expedition
(10:53):
began. And that's where theystarted to make their journey to
show that you could navigate tothe West of the country, to the
Pacific Ocean, via the greatrivers of the West. It's
actually a great story. So let'sdo that in a couple of episodes
time, so that we can tell thatstory falling
Michael Moran (11:13):
in we talked about the great rivers, it's the
confluence of the Mississippi,and the Missouri and it so
Julian Bishop (11:19):
and is did they use the Missouri and the
Mississippi? Is that Is that abig feature of St. Louis?
Michael Moran (11:26):
I don't know.
They clearly did. But I thinkwhen you went there, did you? I
have no recollection of itwhatsoever. I never worked.
Unlike in other places. Forexample, when like Savannah, you
can see the ships going up anddown. I have no recollection of
it.
Julian Bishop (11:40):
No, I mean, there Memphis was kind of the same,
you could see that theMississippi went through it, but
it wasn't entirely obvious. Whatelse did you find that? Did you
have a seventh up?
Michael Moran (11:50):
Well, you got to see the only thing I think it's
the other major claim to fame?
Of course. Is it so theBudweiser isn't it? It is yes.
So now it's
Julian Bishop (11:59):
just been much in the news in America over the
last few months,
Michael Moran (12:03):
and is the company and so what why is he
been in the news, Julian.
Julian Bishop (12:08):
So bad visor is kind of one of these beers,
which is quite a traditionalbeer. I think. I think at one
point, maybe it still is his wasAmerica's most popular beer. But
it's got a slightly old image.
And they hired a new marketingperson to rejuvenate the brand
somewhat. And she selected transperson to promote the beer. You
(12:30):
know, they say there's no suchthing as bad publicity, they
certainly didn't do well. Inthis case, there appears to have
been some very bad publicitybecause this person meets really
cool have more of a pastiche ofa woman, it's I you know, it's
just very, very odd. The waythat she tries to promote the
(12:53):
beer in a feminine way that I'venever seen from from any woman
before. So there's been aconcerted boycott from people
who, who oppose that way ofmarketing. The Vice President
for Marketing has been removed.
And they are desperatelybackpedaling. Trying to get back
(13:16):
some of the customers, themillions of customers that they
have lost over the last coupleof months.
Michael Moran (13:23):
Didn't know that Julian
Julian Bishop (13:25):
probably doesn't affect the company that much
because they own 10s of otherbrands, and presumably some of
the people who've moved fromfrom Budweiser to another Busch
brand. So it may not affect themthat much. But it appears to
have affected the amount ofBudweiser that they're selling.
And indeed, when you go into theshops you see crates and crates
(13:49):
of unsold Budweiser, oh, gosh,so um, but seven up was also
invented in St. Louis. Was it?
Michael Moran (13:57):
Is it part of the stable of the the Budweiser
company or is it No,
Julian Bishop (14:02):
I think seven up I don't know who's seven up his
own. Don't buy it. Maybe it'sowned by Pepsi because I think
sprites owned by coke. So andsports, you went to a Cardinals
game?
Michael Moran (14:13):
We didn't go to the Cardinals game, but we went
to the shop. Surprise, surprisebecause Joe wanted to buy a
baseball. And that's we lookedat the ground.
Julian Bishop (14:21):
I'm trying to think was there an NFL side when
you went to St. Louis?
Michael Moran (14:26):
I think that was yes. I think there was yes. The
Rams Yes, yes. When they moved,but sadly, Julian we're not
talking about the Rams.
Julian Bishop (14:35):
Ah,
Michael Moran (14:37):
I don't know how you could be so unsympathetic to
my knee
Julian Bishop (14:40):
right? I'd say sorry,
Michael Moran (14:42):
did Toki Facebook leaks I didn't look.
Julian Bishop (14:45):
Now we didn't finish personally we finished
fourth from bottom butunfortunately the bottom four
were relegated to the six Leagueof British football so the
season did not end well for usby actually many victories in
the last few games. If it wastoo little too late, and what
was your Darby County? What wasthere?
Michael Moran (15:07):
All they need to do on the last day was avoid
defeat all that.
Julian Bishop (15:12):
And how much did you lose by this
Michael Moran (15:15):
terrible refereeing decision Julian did
cost US price at half halftime,the Curtis Davis has sent have
managed clumsily to stumble overtheir center forward which to
give him a penalty which Ithought he went down very, you
know, easily but okay, I canlive with that referee, then
compounded matters, despitehaving to place between him and
(15:39):
the golden is you know, therules are, you know, you have to
be clean through a sent him off.
So consequently, we pay theremainder of the second of with
only 10 Min. And we're unable toretrieve it despite having the
majority of the play, and mostof the opportunities. And then
to make matters worse, had welost Peterborough at last, but
no people went to one two nil.
(16:01):
And we therefore failed to getin the playoffs on gold
difference.
Julian Bishop (16:07):
Were you there?
No.
Michael Moran (16:09):
It was a Sheffield Wednesday.
Julian Bishop (16:10):
Well, that's a shame. Julian Yes. Well, you
know, that's always next year.
Michael Moran (16:20):
So let's go back to St. Louis, shall we? Because
yeah, they
Julian Bishop (16:22):
used to have an NFL team. Right. And then it
moved cities. Oh,
Michael Moran (16:29):
not soccer, football. Yeah. America. Okay.
Yes, there is a problem withmaking sports, isn't it? You
know, a franchise model?
Julian Bishop (16:36):
Well, you know, if you support a side, and they
move cities, do you really wantto support them?
Michael Moran (16:43):
And I think the population is about 300,000.
Would that be enough to for anNFL team? I know. There's some
smaller places, but
Julian Bishop (16:52):
some smaller ones. I mean, obviously, St.
Louis used to be a lot muchbigger. Yeah. And I think the
population, the city and thenthere's the the metro area. I
think the metro area populationis much bigger, but it should
really be the metro area shouldbe big enough to support a
football team
Michael Moran (17:11):
thought he could make more money or she could
make more money and took theteam elsewhere. You know where
they went?
Julian Bishop (17:16):
La I think, Oh, that's my case. And they've got
a hockey team. The Blues, Ithink from this year, they've
got a soccer team, the St. LouisCity soccer team, so there's
some sport to do. If you go toSt. Louis, are you a fan of the
Ringo Starr song misery lovescompany?
Michael Moran (17:36):
No, don't even know of it.
Julian Bishop (17:40):
Well, Ringo Starr did a song wrote a song about
his love for St. Louis.
Michael Moran (17:45):
Okay. So did he meet Judy Garland? Julie.
Julian Bishop (17:50):
He may have done.
But
Michael Moran (17:53):
she meeting somebody in St. Louis.
Julian Bishop (17:56):
That's right now have you seen that movie?
Michael Moran (17:58):
I've seen clips of it. I'm saying cream. The
clips of the
Julian Bishop (18:01):
that's a much beloved moving, but I think the
song goes meet me in St. Louis.
Louis St. Louis St. Louis. St.
Louis. Yes. See? So it's allvery confusing.
Michael Moran (18:11):
When I go back to the French kings. It was Louis
the 14th. So it is it was Louisthe ninth It was named after.
Not Louis.
Julian Bishop (18:21):
That's not Lewis says then. What's Lewis says?
Louis cows Louis says it's theFrench
Michael Moran (18:30):
Juliet with your French accent.
Julian Bishop (18:34):
So what other movies some have been set in St.
Louis? So Michael?
Michael Moran (18:38):
Oh, now you obviously know this student.
Come on. Tell me I do not knowwhat my
Julian Bishop (18:41):
favorite is Escape from New York. Okay.
Yeah, but that was filmed in St.
Louis. It was always escapedfrom New York. That's right.
Well, they obviously couldn'tafford New York. So they filmed
in St. Louis. instead.
Michael Moran (18:56):
I did the arch feedreader because that will be
a bit of a giveaway. A bit
Julian Bishop (18:59):
of a giveaway. I don't know. Can't remember. It's
Kurt Russell, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah. Double film, planes,trains and automobiles. That's a
slightly better film.
Michael Moran (19:09):
We like that one.
We like the one that youactually know that a National
Julian Bishop (19:12):
Lampoon's Vacation goes to see the archer
Yes, yes.
Michael Moran (19:15):
Are you right as seen that one? George
Julian Bishop (19:18):
Clooney in up in the air? I think He's based in
St. Louis.
Michael Moran (19:23):
I think he instilled in you right. That's
it, isn't it?
Julian Bishop (19:27):
You watch that one great professional
interview?
Michael Moran (19:30):
I did. Yes, I did. And actually, he got
sacked. And it was he realizedthat it wasn't, I think, wasn't
he taken over by some sort of AIwasn't a was that even though
we've made the link back to whatwe started really gone full
circle.
Julian Bishop (19:48):
So I mean, I can't obviously give St. Louis a
mark because I've not beenthere. So what Mark would you
give it from your couple ofdays? Yeah, well, I
Michael Moran (19:57):
think it's a seven or eight you know, is it
Eight No
Julian Bishop (20:00):
no, not at a five.
Michael Moran (20:04):
Oh, Julius over dandy fall in 404. See the arch
is,
Julian Bishop (20:12):
is good. I will make a point to go there. I am
planning to go there because Ido want to see the Cardinals by
baseball there. But so that'sgood. Okay. Well, that's a good
recommendation, Michael. Let'smove on to the American beard.
Michael Moran (20:28):
Now you're gonna have to, I was talking about
facial hair, but you name ugly,very specific. When you say an
American beard. define that forGod. What is an American beard?
Well, it's
Julian Bishop (20:38):
just slightly better than facial hair. And in
fact, why did you choose thesubject?
Michael Moran (20:44):
Just thought it was a good idea to talk about
see, see. See, I'm going to sayI think American men do facial
rather well. And I'm alsothinking it's pretty much a sign
of manliness, we actuallylistening to the last episode, I
suspect the real problem withBudweiser was having a trans
person drinking stuff wassomewhat doesn't go with the
(21:09):
manly image of men drinkingBudweiser.
Julian Bishop (21:13):
That's what they were trying to change, to try
and make it slightly morerelevant to a young, more
youthful drinking audience. Butyeah, I mean, your rights, the
advisor is, you know, it's verymale listen to yeah, there it
is,
Michael Moran (21:27):
in American culture, I'm going to put out a
hypothesis that the greater thefacial hair, the greater the
masculinity that goes with it.
So you think about your sort of,I think goes back to sort of
backwards, but isn't it and so,people really shave but he, you
know, if you see a lot ofAmericans with facial hair, and
I will say this sort of, youknow, this partly not shame,
it's not really facial hair, butyou can tell that you haven't
(21:49):
shaved. So you've got the sortof nine o'clock show, though.
That's always very, very cool,isn't it? You know, very trend
right. Now, right now,
Julian Bishop (21:57):
I think you're, I think you're sort of right. And
I did, I worked hard to findsome data on comparing facial
hair in Britain with facial hairin America. And I do have some
data. Mike, I'm looking forwardto this, Julius. But before we
do the data, perhaps we shouldgo through the history of facial
hair in America.
Michael Moran (22:15):
Only if you insist, Julian, I'm worried
about audience what I was goingto say if we were talking about
facial hair across history inAmerica gone. You heard
Julian Bishop (22:25):
I'm keeping them listening because they want to
know what the statistics are.
But to do that, they got tolisten to all this other junk
about history. Okay. How many ofthe founding fathers had beards
or mustaches, then Michael, allof them. People disagree on how
many Founding Fathers therewere. But you know, let's say
there were 100 or so how many ofthem have
Michael Moran (22:44):
said Julian?
Julian cannot be the case? No,
Julian Bishop (22:48):
apparently. So, zero had either beards or
mustaches. beards were very muchdisapproved of in the 18th
century. The Puritans didn'tlike beards. They love the wig.
But beards they didn't like. Andit wasn't really until the mid
19th century, which was reallythe golden age of, of the
(23:10):
American beard of facial hair inAmerica, that facial hair
started to sort of becomefashionable. And the 1861
British Medical Journal, Michaelproduced an article which
concluded that the US economylost 36 million days per year
from men shaving, oh, andsuggested that actually, they
(23:32):
would be a lot more productiveif everyone had a beard.
Michael Moran (23:35):
And was the rise then in beard growth at that
time, do you believe?
Julian Bishop (23:40):
Well, I think it's sort of happens around, you
know, a period of decades in themiddle of that 19th century.
Now, who was the first presidentto have a beard?
Michael Moran (23:50):
Well, I would have to guess, or they will
Lincoln, but I'm sure thatwasn't Lincoln.
Julian Bishop (23:53):
Well, it was Lincoln. The interesting feature
about Lincoln was that he didn'thave a beard when he was
elected. He grew one after hewas elected. And he was accused
by his political opponents ofputting on airs.
Michael Moran (24:12):
Well, I couldn't believe that because I think
maybe in the 1860s, or whatever.
Yeah, I think sort of having abeard was also associated with
being scholarly or sort ofintellectual. Yeah. Right. So So
I mean, so despite your evidencearound increasing productivity,
I think there was a sort of amovement around if you wanted to
(24:33):
seem clever, grow a bit.
Julian Bishop (24:37):
Right. So that's interesting. We're going to come
on to that, then we'll just holdthat thought. We'll come on to
that because I have some dataabout what people think about
people with beards. And it'd beinteresting to get your
perspective between Lincoln andWilson. Every president except
for Johnson and McKinley andMcKinley was only president for
40 days or something. Almost allof that was when he was in a
(25:01):
coma. All presidents during thattime had facial hair. Yeah. So
it's interesting Lincoln startedthis trend and then, so beards
were not at all very popular.
And then they were very popular,then they didn't really regain
popularity until the hippies ofthe 60s. Okay, so you wanted the
data. So in Britain, 58% ofBritish people, British men,
(25:23):
British adult men have no beard.
Okay. And that compares and thatsort of record high I think for,
for Britain for people withbeards, so they're quite popular
in Britain at the moment aswell. And in America, that
figure is 40%. So 60% ofAmericans have some source of
(25:44):
beard 33% 1/3 of Americans havea big full beard, and 27% have,
you know, something like agoatee? Or you know, very heavy
stubble or something. The datasupports your statement that
more Americans have beards andBritish people.
Michael Moran (26:02):
It's good to know, Julian, good to know. Are
you going down the path to whatpeople think of beards or where
they're going to be it?
Julian Bishop (26:07):
What is your perception of somebody with a
beard than
Michael Moran (26:10):
I thought the easy answer question, because
I'm gonna set the sort ofcontext, isn't it? So? I
personally don't like me it
Julian Bishop (26:19):
should say to the listeners, that neither of us
are bearded.
Michael Moran (26:23):
No, data could grow one. But if I could,
Unknown (26:26):
yeah, so have you ever had a beard
Michael Moran (26:30):
never always shaved everyday. So one of my
sort of hangups about them is Ithink they're relatively untidy,
above beards and tidy. Andcertainly, if you're eating is a
great problem of the collectionof food debris, basic, so I
don't like that. Then the secondone is, which are much more
popular now. It's not really abeard, but this sort of unshaven
(26:51):
look like a two or three days,one group of individuals, you
have a certain age, and you'restarting to go gray, and it
comes through great, but it'snot a good look, in my view is
not mean. And, and also I'mthinking well, you know, again,
where you really ain't got timeto shave, you know, we are we've
seen about your, your parents,so you can see I've got a number
(27:15):
hangups about this, having saidthat, you know, I think it's
gonna be we can count them off,if they're smart. So if they're
in between, they're notlusciously grown, and they're
not sort of two days stubble inbetween. If you look after a
beard and it's properly shavedand cared for etc, it can look
good on certain men, I wouldsuggest,
Julian Bishop (27:37):
can I just say that you are incredibly
representative of what peoplethink about it. But on the
negative side as somebody whoreally shaves once a week,
because he's lazy is great comethrough or you know, I'm a
little bit offended as well,
Michael Moran (27:55):
but that was spot on.
Julian Bishop (27:58):
late because I am lazy, I've got better things to
do with my time then. Than takea razor and that's any more
money.
Michael Moran (28:08):
So we go down to personal hygiene so so but I'm
assuming do shower everydaybecause there's a problem with
if you come back to shave. Doyou bother to shower? And yeah,
I shower every day? Yes, yeah.
And so so I'm maybe I'm jumpingto the wrong conclusion when I
see people with the nine o'clockshadow, but you know, have they
bothered to wash their day? Your
Julian Bishop (28:30):
thoughts about beards, actually to really
accord with what many peoplethink in particular HR people
90% of HR people, Michael,believe that clean shaven, this
gives a much better impression.
Beards are often associated withpoverty, homelessness, illness,
laziness, untidiness, andunhygenic. Those, the negative
(28:53):
and and I do have a data pointManchester Metropolitan
University. Are you aware ofthis? Or gusta academic
institution?
Michael Moran (29:05):
It used to be called Manchester barley. Yes.
Julian Bishop (29:07):
Yeah, so they did some research on beds. And they
used all sorts of cotton buds,swamps and stuff to measure what
was in people's beards. And theyfound that 47% of beards contain
fecal matter.
Michael Moran (29:23):
Oh, Julian Julian. I'm not even sure I
wasn't know that.
Julian Bishop (29:28):
Yes. And they believe that is because it's
related to the other statisticthat 60% of men don't wash their
hands after going to thebathroom.
Michael Moran (29:42):
I'm almost now regretting putting this topic on
the table. Ever knows what AAAwill make of that, Julian.
Julian Bishop (29:48):
But I have good news for our bearded listeners.
Michael Moran (29:52):
I hope so. Julie after that last stat what?
Julian Bishop (29:54):
Yeah, because most women like a man with a
beard, 60s. 3% of women thinkthat or adult women think that
men look more attractive with abeard. And that is because it
conveys for them confidence anddominance. And now there is a
sizable minority that doesn'tlike a beard, but the majority
(30:16):
of women, they like a beard on aman now, they prefer the neatly
trimmed and clean beard that youreferred to earlier on rather
than the mountain man.
Michael Moran (30:27):
All the stubble, presumably. Well, I
Julian Bishop (30:29):
don't know. I don't know about stubble. I
think that stubble might bequite attractive to many women,
but I think they what they don'tparticularly like in general, is
that sort of mountain man beard.
Michael Moran (30:39):
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if the stats would be so
high it then hear the researchfrom Manchester Polytechnic?
Julian Bishop (30:46):
Had they heard that research? They may be?
Yeah, my bed but you know, it'sManchester poly. What do they
know?
Michael Moran (30:55):
So if any listeners who have been to
polio, I'm in favor of bothtechniques. So don't let Julian
yesterday went to a red brickUniversity don't blow off
Julian Bishop (31:05):
my first book. I mentioned daughter number ones
first day at school. When shewent on to the school bus at the
age of 12. I think she was andthen was someone in her year in
her grades. Who a boy who had abig full bushy beard.
Michael Moran (31:21):
Gosh, no, I didn't know that. Yeah.
Julian Bishop (31:27):
Well, I think she was really taken aback. But she
was very distraught by the factthat was this. This man who was
in the same grade as her who hada big bushy grip, beard sales,
people are often advised to beclean shaven, because they hold
the view that clean shavenpeople are more trustworthy.
Michael Moran (31:47):
Yeah, psychology, because you're trying to hide
something Islam? Yes. I thinkthat it's around beards and
people. Yeah, we have. And itjust gave me a chance to make
the reference to anotherinteresting psychological fact,
to do with American presidents,Julian, you know, sort of, you
know, how we literally look upto tall people that we Yes, we
think we have, thereforeauthority, because we look up to
(32:09):
them. average IQ of Americans,average Americans, five foot
nine. How would you? How wouldyou act of American presidents
six foot wall? Yeah. So beingtall would seem to be an
advantage when it comes to apolitician for conveying
authority. And I suspect todaymay think about them. When was
(32:30):
the last American president thathad a beard? Because I think
today, not having having a beardwould hold you back as a
politician?
Julian Bishop (32:39):
Yes, I'm trying to think whether anyone after
Wilson had one. I can't think ofone. I think it's I think it's a
good 100 years. There is anadage in American politics that
when there are two presidentialcandidates, Americans will vote
for the candidate who's notwho's not bold. He's not bold.
(32:59):
If there are. Yeah, and if thereare two bold candidates, they'll
vote for the one with the mosthair.
Michael Moran (33:03):
Okay, but bold, bold. Yeah. I'm gonna say
there's a correlation betweenboldness and having a beard.
Yeah, it's a lot a lot of men.
Yeah. When when going bald as tocompensate then have a bit
lately.
Julian Bishop (33:16):
Yeah, today?
Yeah, I think so maybe. So. Sosalespeople, Publix the
supermarket, they recentlychanged their policy. So for
decades, they had a policy thatnone of their staff members
could have a beard. And they'verecently changed that. So you
now may be served by somebodywith a beard that when you go to
(33:37):
your local supermarket, youdidn't mind a beard, but you
didn't like stubble? Is thatright? Yeah. That is also the
position of the UK Police. Yes.
Are you aware of that? So theyhave a policy that you are
allowed to have a beard as apolice officer, but you're not
allowed to have stubble? I don'tknow how you develop a beard if
(34:00):
you're not going to have stubblefirst.
Michael Moran (34:01):
Take two weeks holy, presumably. I mean, and it
was right in thinking at somestage that the force of the Navy
traditionally always could havebeards. Yeah, and I think not so
long ago things like the RAF andthe army Weren't you weren't
allowed them unless on religiousgrounds or something?
Julian Bishop (34:17):
That's right. And that's certainly the US military
position. Yeah. So the USmilitary unless you are Sikh or
Muslim or something like that,then you are not allowed a beard
and they give you some guffabout needing to get your, your
chemical mask on, you know, yourchemical protection mask on or
(34:38):
something like that. But in theNavy, they have the opposite
issues that you have, if youhave a beard. You have to get
your permission from yourcommanding officer, if you're
going to shave that beard off inthe Navy goulash. So, but you
know, I've seen a lot of moviesabout American special forces
and they all seem to havebeards. So I'm guessing if
(34:58):
you're in one of these sorts ofspecial groups and you're
working in, you know, the beardloving Afghanistan that
Michael Moran (35:08):
the Taliban, I think it's probably difficult
not to have a beard, to behonest, if you want to mix in
Julian Bishop (35:13):
any other features of beards that you want
to draw people's attention to.
Michael Moran (35:18):
I think I've covered most of my sort of
prejudice of beards already,Julian.
Julian Bishop (35:25):
And would you describe yourself as pagana
phobic?
Michael Moran (35:29):
Assuming that's filled with beards? Nope.
Julian Bishop (35:31):
Apparently 12% of Americans are put on a phobic
right. And that's particularlyFelix women. And there's a
specific form of pagana phobiacalled Santa phobia.
Michael Moran (35:43):
Ah, fear of Santa Claus. Yes. And they're all
mistakes down the path of yourfield. Clouds are not clouds,
isn't it?
Julian Bishop (35:51):
I don't like clowns. Like I'm not fearful of
them. I just fine. Don't liethem. No, but yeah, there are
people who are 12% of Americansare gonna phobic. And of course
in America, there is never anyissue of getting somebody to
play Santa. Because there are somany people with real bushy
(36:12):
Santa beards. Yes. never anissue at Christmas. Holiday
Party time.
Michael Moran (36:16):
But what do the rest of the year because you
don't see me wandering aroundthe streets a lot. Do you? All
dancers? Yeah, you don't know.
Yeah, we
Julian Bishop (36:24):
did folk right.
Well, you know, this load ofbearded people where I live is a
road. A lot of young people havebeards. But now I did find some
very interesting to say six onwhat American men would do to
get a better beard. Did you findthis when you're in your own
search? No God, but God. 40% ofpeople said that they would
(36:45):
spend time in jail to get abetter beard. 38% of people said
they would stand in line at theDMV, which is the driver
services for a whole day, and itusually takes a whole day we're
not in Florida. But elsewhere.
(37:05):
Most Americans will do anythingother than go to stand in line
at the driver services. 38% ofAmericans said they'd be willing
to spend a day in line at theDMV to get a better beard. And
22% said they will give up sexfor the for the year.
Michael Moran (37:20):
JD I'm assuming this wasn't done by Manchester
Polytechnic, who was doing thisresearch?
Julian Bishop (37:26):
To know I don't know. It's probably something of
a similar ilk
Michael Moran (37:30):
sample probably should have dead people.
Julian Bishop (37:33):
Well, yes. Who knows? You know, so yeah. So
National Hockey League playoffs?
Are you familiar with them,Michael?
Michael Moran (37:42):
I think so. But go on with the what's the
connection to beards?
Julian Bishop (37:46):
There's a tradition in the men's NHL
playoffs, that if you are aplayer involved in the playoff,
you will not shave until yourteam has been eliminated from
the playoff. So you see in thefinal of the Stanley Cup, you
will see everyone is you know,massively hirsute and they're,
you know, beards. Absolutelyeveryone. Which is a nice thing.
(38:11):
So what would what would you doif you if you grew a beard, then
Michael Moran (38:15):
she doubled shave it off. She wouldn't like it.
Now going back to the eyes,okay. So I need to check that
step because I am my visualWayne Gretzky old in the Stanley
Cup. Didn't have him with thebeard.
Julian Bishop (38:30):
Oh, it's a it's a well known thing that they don't
shave. As the competition goeson. These beards get wilder and
wilder. So and of course noteveryone can grow a beard. No,
that's true. Yeah. So Americans.
Yeah, I think we've we'veconcluded that Americans do are
more likely to be beard thantheir European brethren. Maybe
not than their Afghani brethren,and that most American women
(38:52):
find a bed attractive.
Michael Moran (38:56):
I mean, slightly Illa T's Julie with your
research on this one. Because wethe sample surveys of this was
you know, oh, it's beenresearched multiple times. The
only things that didn't
Julian Bishop (39:08):
63%
Michael Moran (39:09):
Yeah, like to
Julian Bishop (39:10):
bed with only 20 something saying no, thank you.
I never would like a beard. Imean, they wouldn't like a beard
themselves, or they wouldn'tlike a beard in there, man. I
think a lot of it does come downto your perceptions of what a
beard brings to a man yeah, ifyou do believe that men look
better looking with a beard andyou do believe that they're more
(39:32):
confident and more dominant andyou like that. Then you can see
why women might prefer their youknow, their man, you know to be
beard or slightly beard. Yeah.
If your take on beards is thatit's a sign of homelessness and
laziness and untidiness andhygienic. Then, I guess you take
a different view.
Michael Moran (39:53):
Yeah. The research points to great
popularity in the States asopposed to the UK. I'm
fascinated that you say Withresearch on beds well don't you
Julian Bishop (40:15):
by the way, that was episode 50. Oh, I should
have made a big thing about it.
Michael Moran (40:20):
Okay. All right.
I'll be in New York by nexttime.
Julian Bishop (40:23):
So New York is episode 49. Oh, you're
Michael Moran (40:26):
not doing that.
Well, yeah. Yeah, but
Julian Bishop (40:28):
you have to do that one. Next. Yeah. Before I
publish St. Louis.
Michael Moran (40:32):
So sure, like, yeah, okay, so good. So, Julian,
one thing that AI can't do, itcan't tell us how many episodes
we've had so far. Amazingly, itforgot to mention that this
episode was episode number 50.
The Big Five Oh, Julian.
Julian Bishop (40:51):
So the big five Oh, Michael does remind me that
you had a milestone birthdayrecently.
Michael Moran (40:57):
I did Julian very recently recently as Monday and
it was the big seven Oh, he doesmake you think Julian the big
seven oh,
Julian Bishop (41:05):
what does it make you
Michael Moran (41:06):
think it makes me how lucky I've been Julian to
get yes you know I mean,threescore and 10 Julian not to
be underestimated. Sure
Julian Bishop (41:15):
lots of snare Yes, please
Michael Moran (41:16):
go dead. So I'm now living the dream monta
everyday living
Julian Bishop (41:21):
on borrowed time now.
Michael Moran (41:22):
I prefer living on the dream Julian the boat
diver ugly. Yeah.
Julian Bishop (41:26):
Okay, so you go for it. What is it? Pancho
Villa?
Michael Moran (41:30):
One of my favorite things. In fact, that's
a topic if you do American popmusic anthems Julian will
because I look see we say that
Julian Bishop (41:41):
so well. Well, congratulations on your
milestone birthday. Thank you.
Sorry, I couldn't be that.
Michael Moran (41:46):
Yeah. Well, you will be for the cricket in June.
Is that correct?
Julian Bishop (41:50):
That's right.
Although I think this episode isgoing to be released after the
cricket.
Michael Moran (41:55):
Okay, so we will mention that then. Now as
always, Julian it's goodbye forme and it's it's goodbye from
him
Unknown (42:07):
got my crazy?
lazy way right
Hello, and welcome to an American Journey,
a podcast about exploring thediverse and complex landscape of
America. My name is MichaelMoran. And together with my co
host, Julian Bishop, we will beembarking on a journey across
this great country to uncoverthe stories and experiences that
(00:36):
make America so unique. As toBritish journalists, Julian, I
always been fascinated byAmerica's rich history, its
cultural diversity, and itsenduring influence on the world.
And in this podcast, we aim todelve deeper into these topics
(00:58):
by talking to people from allwalks of life, for farmers in
the heartland, to techentrepreneurs in Silicon Valley,
for musicians in New Orleans, toactivists fighting for social
justice in New York. Through ourconversations, we hope to gain a
deeper understanding of thechallenges and opportunities
(01:20):
facing America today. And toshed light on the untold
stories, and perspectives thatoften go on heard. So join us on
this journey, as we explore themany facets of America and
discover the incredible peopleand stories that make this
country so
Julian Bishop (01:40):
extraordinary.
That's a different intro fromnormal microwaves that that is
Michael Moran (01:45):
Julian, because you've been playing with AI. And
that's what AI tells us AmericanJourney is now I was happy to go
along with it. But first of all,I don't believe I'm a
journalist. And secondly, someof the things that suggests we
shouldn't be doing out in thepodcast. But going forward, we
will endeavor to follow AI aslead and create the podcast
(02:07):
along the way they see it.
Julian Bishop (02:09):
I've been hearing all about how AI is gonna take
away and it's gonna get rid ofall of these low added value
jobs. So I thought I put yourrole into AI and civic could do
it better.
Michael Moran (02:22):
Well, I think usually what you're under
threat, Julian, because you'rethe journalist. Actually, it
could write at least what I do.
You know, if people face it, andI'm pretty certain that's not
going to be replaced just yet.
But that's your your redundant?
Julian Bishop (02:37):
Yeah, well, I have a feeling that some you do
a better job than AI currently.
So your job is safe for anotherfew episodes there, Michael.
That's good. So what are wetalking about this week, then?
Usually you you mentioned that?
Michael Moran (02:51):
Two things today, Julian? We're going to go to St.
Louis. And then we're going totalk about facial hair.
Julian Bishop (02:58):
Yes, the American beard.
Michael Moran (03:00):
It makes a beard.
Julian Bishop (03:01):
I've not been to St. Louis. So I guess I ought to
start it off and say, Should Igo Michael? Or why should I go?
Michael Moran (03:10):
First of all, are you going to St. Louis, or St.
Louis? Because I'm a bit. What'sthe word puzzle? Because I did a
bit of research as always. Andindeed, you know, when you can
go and go to Google, and itgives you pronunciations of
people's names or places.
Julian Bishop (03:29):
Oh, I never thought you took advantage of
that facility. Michael. Well,
Michael Moran (03:34):
suffice advice, and it was very clear St. Louis.
But of course, that can't beright. Because the film No,
because no, because the placewas named after Louie the Lloyds
was not it was it was Yeah. Wedon't call it King Louis the
way. Lewis assume King? I don'tthink so. Although he was when
he was American. That's what hewould be called. St. Louis. And
(03:57):
should you go? I'm going to sayyes.
Julian Bishop (04:01):
Is that it for the section? Are you going to
elaborate?
Michael Moran (04:04):
I will. I'm going to elaborate on. I've been there
but it was a stopover. So we'retalking about sort of overnight
and a day before move and was ittwo nights moving on? And I'm
gonna give a big shout out tothe Four Seasons Hotel. Because
the Four Seasons Hotel wasreally great. And you have a
great view.
Julian Bishop (04:22):
Did they have an ensuite bathroom?
Michael Moran (04:24):
They certainly did. Julian What are you think
we wouldn't have ensuitebathrooms? Have you
Julian Bishop (04:29):
remember that you found the one in Denver to ask
them whether they have anensuite bathroom after if you're
you're Yellowstone stroke,Yosemite stroke, all the other
national park experience?
Michael Moran (04:39):
Well, you're talking about the romantic
package. We didn't have theromantic magic. Yeah, but so
what's more as a fantastic viewof what is the one big reason
why people go to gateway to thewest gateway to the west. The
arch in itself, actually, Ithink it's worth going just to
see the arch. It's a little bitlike I suppose if you go to
(05:01):
London, you go and see theMillennium wheel or you go to
Paris, the Eiffel Tower, theartist is somewhat of a
spectacular feature.
Julian Bishop (05:12):
And can you do anything on the arch, you can go
a
Michael Moran (05:15):
bit, but actually, it's now what,
probably two or three yearssince we went, but actually the
exhibition in the area beforeyou go up, I could always make
everything managed, because asI'm going to say, it's a very
confined space. So you go up, Ithink in no more than, like four
(05:35):
pods of four sort of mechanicalthing that sort of takes you up
to the top of the arch. And thenit's a very restricted view,
like you're looking through. Soa pane of glass, but if you're
claustrophobic it's definitelynot the place to do things to
do. But the exhibition beside isreally interesting, because
because obviously, was built inwhat 60s Refinishing 65. And
(05:58):
since then, they they sort oftake you through all the famous
people or things that havehappened since then. So it's not
just about the art, there's asense of American history with
it don't quite like,
Julian Bishop (06:10):
Okay, I didn't really know what to make of it.
I've seen the image, obviously,multiple times, but I didn't
know whether it was, you know,one of those things, which is
worth saying, or, or something,which was some kind of a
gimmick, but sounds like youenjoyed seeing the arch.
Michael Moran (06:26):
Yeah, I mean, it is gimmick, but But I mean, my
understanding is it was exceptrepresent St. Louis, which was
the gateway to the west. SoNewpoint knows better
immediately. And this other timewhen the lands of the West was
being open, and that you youhave all these sort of newsreel
of, of people with wagons racingto get their land. And
(06:46):
understand St. Louis was thestarting point for that
Julian Bishop (06:49):
was and we'll come on to that a little bit
later. We'll talk about Lewisand Clark a little bit. Okay.
Michael Moran (06:54):
And we talked about Thomas Jefferson, because
it wasn't it is sort of idea orI certainly
Julian Bishop (06:59):
was Yeah, in fact, I think what we should do
is we should do a specificpodcast on Lewis and Clark,
because it's actually brilliantstory. Yeah. But I will do a
whole session on them becausethe story is so good. Apart from
the arch. What else is there todo in St. Louis, then Michael?
Michael Moran (07:15):
Well, you obviously go to the baseball
ground. And I didn't I did thosebefore for the Cardinals. What's
interesting about the baseball,they have a they have a stand,
which is outside of the stadiumacross the road with from which
you can watch the game. Soobviously, you can see the game
inside the stadium. But if youcross the road, they've got this
sort of shop and then they builtstands on top of the shop so you
(07:38):
can see the game
Julian Bishop (07:39):
outside. The gutter. Similar thing at Wrigley
Field in Chicago, the stadium isin a very residential area. And
then on top of the apartmentblocks outside the stadium,
they've got various differentvantage points for those for
those apartment blocks.
Michael Moran (07:55):
So So you should do that. Two things I didn't do
which I wish you had. It's got agood botanical gardens. And wait
for it. Wait for Julian. Youknew it was coming. He got a
train station like a trainstation, but no trains. Julian,
can you believe that?
Julian Bishop (08:13):
Oh, that's my ideal type of train station.
Michael Moran (08:15):
In fact, an oil open in 1894. It was the largest
train station in the world.
Right. And they had 32 tracksgoing into it. Oh, wow. But
sadly, I don't think St. Louisis well known in the UK, but I'd
appreciate it. It had both thewelfare. And it's at the
Olympics there. Did you know
Julian Bishop (08:36):
that's right.
Yeah. It was the first OlympicGames held outside the outside
of Europe. So 90 No for thoseOlympic Games. And it was also
the year of of the welfare,which we talked about welfare,
some previous podcasts and ithad the welfare which attracted
I think 20 million visitors.
Yeah. It's really quitesomething for, you know, for
(08:59):
that time and you know, thetransport links. Despite its 30
tracks, the the transport linkswouldn't have been great about
at that time.
Michael Moran (09:07):
Well, they were taking 100,000 people a day,
apparently. And obviously withthe birth of airlines and the
demise of the railways. Itclosed in 1978. In fact, there
is an Amtrak station, butapparently, it's nowhere near as
impressive as what is now it's ahotel. Wait for it, and
(09:27):
aquarium. And it hosts the St.
Louis we'll. So consequently,how have the mighty fallen from
the large? Well, is he in theworld to an aquarium.
Julian Bishop (09:39):
It is one of these cities whose population
has dramatically fallen over thelast few decades. 1/5 of all the
houses in St. Louis are lyingempty. So you know, I think it
is a city which had a betterpast than its current. Maybe it
has a better future ahead of it,but I think it has a long
(10:02):
alongside many other US cities,it has experienced some decline
Michael Moran (10:07):
and sanding with decline goes. Violence, I think
it's something like number 14 inthe world, most dangerous cities
when it comes to murders. Imean, I have to say, only
finding that outretrospectively, my impression
of it was a quite gooey GreenCity. I mean, very nice,
pleasant. So the bits we saw ofit in the center was really
(10:30):
nice. I thought it was, I think
Julian Bishop (10:32):
it's some of the suburbs where they've had, you
know, some of these issues, andthey've had, I think, you know,
some of those sort of BlackLives Matters, things started in
that in, in some of the suburbsin St. Louis, it does have some
issues that it needs to resolve,we go back to Lewis and Clark.
That is where the Lewis andClark exhibition expedition
(10:53):
began. And that's where theystarted to make their journey to
show that you could navigate tothe West of the country, to the
Pacific Ocean, via the greatrivers of the West. It's
actually a great story. So let'sdo that in a couple of episodes
time, so that we can tell thatstory falling
Michael Moran (11:13):
in we talked about the great rivers, it's the
confluence of the Mississippi,and the Missouri and it so
Julian Bishop (11:19):
and is did they use the Missouri and the
Mississippi? Is that Is that abig feature of St. Louis?
Michael Moran (11:26):
I don't know.
They clearly did. But I thinkwhen you went there, did you? I
have no recollection of itwhatsoever. I never worked.
Unlike in other places. Forexample, when like Savannah, you
can see the ships going up anddown. I have no recollection of
it.
Julian Bishop (11:40):
No, I mean, there Memphis was kind of the same,
you could see that theMississippi went through it, but
it wasn't entirely obvious. Whatelse did you find that? Did you
have a seventh up?
Michael Moran (11:50):
Well, you got to see the only thing I think it's
the other major claim to fame?
Of course. Is it so theBudweiser isn't it? It is yes.
So now it's
Julian Bishop (11:59):
just been much in the news in America over the
last few months,
Michael Moran (12:03):
and is the company and so what why is he
been in the news, Julian.
Julian Bishop (12:08):
So bad visor is kind of one of these beers,
which is quite a traditionalbeer. I think. I think at one
point, maybe it still is his wasAmerica's most popular beer. But
it's got a slightly old image.
And they hired a new marketingperson to rejuvenate the brand
somewhat. And she selected transperson to promote the beer. You
(12:30):
know, they say there's no suchthing as bad publicity, they
certainly didn't do well. Inthis case, there appears to have
been some very bad publicitybecause this person meets really
cool have more of a pastiche ofa woman, it's I you know, it's
just very, very odd. The waythat she tries to promote the
(12:53):
beer in a feminine way that I'venever seen from from any woman
before. So there's been aconcerted boycott from people
who, who oppose that way ofmarketing. The Vice President
for Marketing has been removed.
And they are desperatelybackpedaling. Trying to get back
(13:16):
some of the customers, themillions of customers that they
have lost over the last coupleof months.
Michael Moran (13:23):
Didn't know that Julian
Julian Bishop (13:25):
probably doesn't affect the company that much
because they own 10s of otherbrands, and presumably some of
the people who've moved fromfrom Budweiser to another Busch
brand. So it may not affect themthat much. But it appears to
have affected the amount ofBudweiser that they're selling.
And indeed, when you go into theshops you see crates and crates
(13:49):
of unsold Budweiser, oh, gosh,so um, but seven up was also
invented in St. Louis. Was it?
Michael Moran (13:57):
Is it part of the stable of the the Budweiser
company or is it No,
Julian Bishop (14:02):
I think seven up I don't know who's seven up his
own. Don't buy it. Maybe it'sowned by Pepsi because I think
sprites owned by coke. So andsports, you went to a Cardinals
game?
Michael Moran (14:13):
We didn't go to the Cardinals game, but we went
to the shop. Surprise, surprisebecause Joe wanted to buy a
baseball. And that's we lookedat the ground.
Julian Bishop (14:21):
I'm trying to think was there an NFL side when
you went to St. Louis?
Michael Moran (14:26):
I think that was yes. I think there was yes. The
Rams Yes, yes. When they moved,but sadly, Julian we're not
talking about the Rams.
Julian Bishop (14:35):
Ah,
Michael Moran (14:37):
I don't know how you could be so unsympathetic to
my knee
Julian Bishop (14:40):
right? I'd say sorry,
Michael Moran (14:42):
did Toki Facebook leaks I didn't look.
Julian Bishop (14:45):
Now we didn't finish personally we finished
fourth from bottom butunfortunately the bottom four
were relegated to the six Leagueof British football so the
season did not end well for usby actually many victories in
the last few games. If it wastoo little too late, and what
was your Darby County? What wasthere?
Michael Moran (15:07):
All they need to do on the last day was avoid
defeat all that.
Julian Bishop (15:12):
And how much did you lose by this
Michael Moran (15:15):
terrible refereeing decision Julian did
cost US price at half halftime,the Curtis Davis has sent have
managed clumsily to stumble overtheir center forward which to
give him a penalty which Ithought he went down very, you
know, easily but okay, I canlive with that referee, then
compounded matters, despitehaving to place between him and
(15:39):
the golden is you know, therules are, you know, you have to
be clean through a sent him off.
So consequently, we pay theremainder of the second of with
only 10 Min. And we're unable toretrieve it despite having the
majority of the play, and mostof the opportunities. And then
to make matters worse, had welost Peterborough at last, but
no people went to one two nil.
(16:01):
And we therefore failed to getin the playoffs on gold
difference.
Julian Bishop (16:07):
Were you there?
No.
Michael Moran (16:09):
It was a Sheffield Wednesday.
Julian Bishop (16:10):
Well, that's a shame. Julian Yes. Well, you
know, that's always next year.
Michael Moran (16:20):
So let's go back to St. Louis, shall we? Because
yeah, they
Julian Bishop (16:22):
used to have an NFL team. Right. And then it
moved cities. Oh,
Michael Moran (16:29):
not soccer, football. Yeah. America. Okay.
Yes, there is a problem withmaking sports, isn't it? You
know, a franchise model?
Julian Bishop (16:36):
Well, you know, if you support a side, and they
move cities, do you really wantto support them?
Michael Moran (16:43):
And I think the population is about 300,000.
Would that be enough to for anNFL team? I know. There's some
smaller places, but
Julian Bishop (16:52):
some smaller ones. I mean, obviously, St.
Louis used to be a lot muchbigger. Yeah. And I think the
population, the city and thenthere's the the metro area. I
think the metro area populationis much bigger, but it should
really be the metro area shouldbe big enough to support a
football team
Michael Moran (17:11):
thought he could make more money or she could
make more money and took theteam elsewhere. You know where
they went?
Julian Bishop (17:16):
La I think, Oh, that's my case. And they've got
a hockey team. The Blues, Ithink from this year, they've
got a soccer team, the St. LouisCity soccer team, so there's
some sport to do. If you go toSt. Louis, are you a fan of the
Ringo Starr song misery lovescompany?
Michael Moran (17:36):
No, don't even know of it.
Julian Bishop (17:40):
Well, Ringo Starr did a song wrote a song about
his love for St. Louis.
Michael Moran (17:45):
Okay. So did he meet Judy Garland? Julie.
Julian Bishop (17:50):
He may have done.
But
Michael Moran (17:53):
she meeting somebody in St. Louis.
Julian Bishop (17:56):
That's right now have you seen that movie?
Michael Moran (17:58):
I've seen clips of it. I'm saying cream. The
clips of the
Julian Bishop (18:01):
that's a much beloved moving, but I think the
song goes meet me in St. Louis.
Louis St. Louis St. Louis. St.
Louis. Yes. See? So it's allvery confusing.
Michael Moran (18:11):
When I go back to the French kings. It was Louis
the 14th. So it is it was Louisthe ninth It was named after.
Not Louis.
Julian Bishop (18:21):
That's not Lewis says then. What's Lewis says?
Louis cows Louis says it's theFrench
Michael Moran (18:30):
Juliet with your French accent.
Julian Bishop (18:34):
So what other movies some have been set in St.
Louis? So Michael?
Michael Moran (18:38):
Oh, now you obviously know this student.
Come on. Tell me I do not knowwhat my
Julian Bishop (18:41):
favorite is Escape from New York. Okay.
Yeah, but that was filmed in St.
Louis. It was always escapedfrom New York. That's right.
Well, they obviously couldn'tafford New York. So they filmed
in St. Louis. instead.
Michael Moran (18:56):
I did the arch feedreader because that will be
a bit of a giveaway. A bit
Julian Bishop (18:59):
of a giveaway. I don't know. Can't remember. It's
Kurt Russell, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah. Double film, planes,trains and automobiles. That's a
slightly better film.
Michael Moran (19:09):
We like that one.
We like the one that youactually know that a National
Julian Bishop (19:12):
Lampoon's Vacation goes to see the archer
Yes, yes.
Michael Moran (19:15):
Are you right as seen that one? George
Julian Bishop (19:18):
Clooney in up in the air? I think He's based in
St. Louis.
Michael Moran (19:23):
I think he instilled in you right. That's
it, isn't it?
Julian Bishop (19:27):
You watch that one great professional
interview?
Michael Moran (19:30):
I did. Yes, I did. And actually, he got
sacked. And it was he realizedthat it wasn't, I think, wasn't
he taken over by some sort of AIwasn't a was that even though
we've made the link back to whatwe started really gone full
circle.
Julian Bishop (19:48):
So I mean, I can't obviously give St. Louis a
mark because I've not beenthere. So what Mark would you
give it from your couple ofdays? Yeah, well, I
Michael Moran (19:57):
think it's a seven or eight you know, is it
Eight No
Julian Bishop (20:00):
no, not at a five.
Michael Moran (20:04):
Oh, Julius over dandy fall in 404. See the arch
is,
Julian Bishop (20:12):
is good. I will make a point to go there. I am
planning to go there because Ido want to see the Cardinals by
baseball there. But so that'sgood. Okay. Well, that's a good
recommendation, Michael. Let'smove on to the American beard.
Michael Moran (20:28):
Now you're gonna have to, I was talking about
facial hair, but you name ugly,very specific. When you say an
American beard. define that forGod. What is an American beard?
Well, it's
Julian Bishop (20:38):
just slightly better than facial hair. And in
fact, why did you choose thesubject?
Michael Moran (20:44):
Just thought it was a good idea to talk about
see, see. See, I'm going to sayI think American men do facial
rather well. And I'm alsothinking it's pretty much a sign
of manliness, we actuallylistening to the last episode, I
suspect the real problem withBudweiser was having a trans
person drinking stuff wassomewhat doesn't go with the
(21:09):
manly image of men drinkingBudweiser.
Julian Bishop (21:13):
That's what they were trying to change, to try
and make it slightly morerelevant to a young, more
youthful drinking audience. Butyeah, I mean, your rights, the
advisor is, you know, it's verymale listen to yeah, there it
is,
Michael Moran (21:27):
in American culture, I'm going to put out a
hypothesis that the greater thefacial hair, the greater the
masculinity that goes with it.
So you think about your sort of,I think goes back to sort of
backwards, but isn't it and so,people really shave but he, you
know, if you see a lot ofAmericans with facial hair, and
I will say this sort of, youknow, this partly not shame,
it's not really facial hair, butyou can tell that you haven't
(21:49):
shaved. So you've got the sortof nine o'clock show, though.
That's always very, very cool,isn't it? You know, very trend
right. Now, right now,
Julian Bishop (21:57):
I think you're, I think you're sort of right. And
I did, I worked hard to findsome data on comparing facial
hair in Britain with facial hairin America. And I do have some
data. Mike, I'm looking forwardto this, Julius. But before we
do the data, perhaps we shouldgo through the history of facial
hair in America.
Michael Moran (22:15):
Only if you insist, Julian, I'm worried
about audience what I was goingto say if we were talking about
facial hair across history inAmerica gone. You heard
Julian Bishop (22:25):
I'm keeping them listening because they want to
know what the statistics are.
But to do that, they got tolisten to all this other junk
about history. Okay. How many ofthe founding fathers had beards
or mustaches, then Michael, allof them. People disagree on how
many Founding Fathers therewere. But you know, let's say
there were 100 or so how many ofthem have
Michael Moran (22:44):
said Julian?
Julian cannot be the case? No,
Julian Bishop (22:48):
apparently. So, zero had either beards or
mustaches. beards were very muchdisapproved of in the 18th
century. The Puritans didn'tlike beards. They love the wig.
But beards they didn't like. Andit wasn't really until the mid
19th century, which was reallythe golden age of, of the
(23:10):
American beard of facial hair inAmerica, that facial hair
started to sort of becomefashionable. And the 1861
British Medical Journal, Michaelproduced an article which
concluded that the US economylost 36 million days per year
from men shaving, oh, andsuggested that actually, they
(23:32):
would be a lot more productiveif everyone had a beard.
Michael Moran (23:35):
And was the rise then in beard growth at that
time, do you believe?
Julian Bishop (23:40):
Well, I think it's sort of happens around, you
know, a period of decades in themiddle of that 19th century.
Now, who was the first presidentto have a beard?
Michael Moran (23:50):
Well, I would have to guess, or they will
Lincoln, but I'm sure thatwasn't Lincoln.
Julian Bishop (23:53):
Well, it was Lincoln. The interesting feature
about Lincoln was that he didn'thave a beard when he was
elected. He grew one after hewas elected. And he was accused
by his political opponents ofputting on airs.
Michael Moran (24:12):
Well, I couldn't believe that because I think
maybe in the 1860s, or whatever.
Yeah, I think sort of having abeard was also associated with
being scholarly or sort ofintellectual. Yeah. Right. So So
I mean, so despite your evidencearound increasing productivity,
I think there was a sort of amovement around if you wanted to
(24:33):
seem clever, grow a bit.
Julian Bishop (24:37):
Right. So that's interesting. We're going to come
on to that, then we'll just holdthat thought. We'll come on to
that because I have some dataabout what people think about
people with beards. And it'd beinteresting to get your
perspective between Lincoln andWilson. Every president except
for Johnson and McKinley andMcKinley was only president for
40 days or something. Almost allof that was when he was in a
(25:01):
coma. All presidents during thattime had facial hair. Yeah. So
it's interesting Lincoln startedthis trend and then, so beards
were not at all very popular.
And then they were very popular,then they didn't really regain
popularity until the hippies ofthe 60s. Okay, so you wanted the
data. So in Britain, 58% ofBritish people, British men,
(25:23):
British adult men have no beard.
Okay. And that compares and thatsort of record high I think for,
for Britain for people withbeards, so they're quite popular
in Britain at the moment aswell. And in America, that
figure is 40%. So 60% ofAmericans have some source of
(25:44):
beard 33% 1/3 of Americans havea big full beard, and 27% have,
you know, something like agoatee? Or you know, very heavy
stubble or something. The datasupports your statement that
more Americans have beards andBritish people.
Michael Moran (26:02):
It's good to know, Julian, good to know. Are
you going down the path to whatpeople think of beards or where
they're going to be it?
Julian Bishop (26:07):
What is your perception of somebody with a
beard than
Michael Moran (26:10):
I thought the easy answer question, because
I'm gonna set the sort ofcontext, isn't it? So? I
personally don't like me it
Julian Bishop (26:19):
should say to the listeners, that neither of us
are bearded.
Michael Moran (26:23):
No, data could grow one. But if I could,
Unknown (26:26):
yeah, so have you ever had a beard
Michael Moran (26:30):
never always shaved everyday. So one of my
sort of hangups about them is Ithink they're relatively untidy,
above beards and tidy. Andcertainly, if you're eating is a
great problem of the collectionof food debris, basic, so I
don't like that. Then the secondone is, which are much more
popular now. It's not really abeard, but this sort of unshaven
(26:51):
look like a two or three days,one group of individuals, you
have a certain age, and you'restarting to go gray, and it
comes through great, but it'snot a good look, in my view is
not mean. And, and also I'mthinking well, you know, again,
where you really ain't got timeto shave, you know, we are we've
seen about your, your parents,so you can see I've got a number
(27:15):
hangups about this, having saidthat, you know, I think it's
gonna be we can count them off,if they're smart. So if they're
in between, they're notlusciously grown, and they're
not sort of two days stubble inbetween. If you look after a
beard and it's properly shavedand cared for etc, it can look
good on certain men, I wouldsuggest,
Julian Bishop (27:37):
can I just say that you are incredibly
representative of what peoplethink about it. But on the
negative side as somebody whoreally shaves once a week,
because he's lazy is great comethrough or you know, I'm a
little bit offended as well,
Michael Moran (27:55):
but that was spot on.
Julian Bishop (27:58):
late because I am lazy, I've got better things to
do with my time then. Than takea razor and that's any more
money.
Michael Moran (28:08):
So we go down to personal hygiene so so but I'm
assuming do shower everydaybecause there's a problem with
if you come back to shave. Doyou bother to shower? And yeah,
I shower every day? Yes, yeah.
And so so I'm maybe I'm jumpingto the wrong conclusion when I
see people with the nine o'clockshadow, but you know, have they
bothered to wash their day? Your
Julian Bishop (28:30):
thoughts about beards, actually to really
accord with what many peoplethink in particular HR people
90% of HR people, Michael,believe that clean shaven, this
gives a much better impression.
Beards are often associated withpoverty, homelessness, illness,
laziness, untidiness, andunhygenic. Those, the negative
(28:53):
and and I do have a data pointManchester Metropolitan
University. Are you aware ofthis? Or gusta academic
institution?
Michael Moran (29:05):
It used to be called Manchester barley. Yes.
Julian Bishop (29:07):
Yeah, so they did some research on beds. And they
used all sorts of cotton buds,swamps and stuff to measure what
was in people's beards. And theyfound that 47% of beards contain
fecal matter.
Michael Moran (29:23):
Oh, Julian Julian. I'm not even sure I
wasn't know that.
Julian Bishop (29:28):
Yes. And they believe that is because it's
related to the other statisticthat 60% of men don't wash their
hands after going to thebathroom.
Michael Moran (29:42):
I'm almost now regretting putting this topic on
the table. Ever knows what AAAwill make of that, Julian.
Julian Bishop (29:48):
But I have good news for our bearded listeners.
Michael Moran (29:52):
I hope so. Julie after that last stat what?
Julian Bishop (29:54):
Yeah, because most women like a man with a
beard, 60s. 3% of women thinkthat or adult women think that
men look more attractive with abeard. And that is because it
conveys for them confidence anddominance. And now there is a
sizable minority that doesn'tlike a beard, but the majority
(30:16):
of women, they like a beard on aman now, they prefer the neatly
trimmed and clean beard that youreferred to earlier on rather
than the mountain man.
Michael Moran (30:27):
All the stubble, presumably. Well, I
Julian Bishop (30:29):
don't know. I don't know about stubble. I
think that stubble might bequite attractive to many women,
but I think they what they don'tparticularly like in general, is
that sort of mountain man beard.
Michael Moran (30:39):
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if the stats would be so
high it then hear the researchfrom Manchester Polytechnic?
Julian Bishop (30:46):
Had they heard that research? They may be?
Yeah, my bed but you know, it'sManchester poly. What do they
know?
Michael Moran (30:55):
So if any listeners who have been to
polio, I'm in favor of bothtechniques. So don't let Julian
yesterday went to a red brickUniversity don't blow off
Julian Bishop (31:05):
my first book. I mentioned daughter number ones
first day at school. When shewent on to the school bus at the
age of 12. I think she was andthen was someone in her year in
her grades. Who a boy who had abig full bushy beard.
Michael Moran (31:21):
Gosh, no, I didn't know that. Yeah.
Julian Bishop (31:27):
Well, I think she was really taken aback. But she
was very distraught by the factthat was this. This man who was
in the same grade as her who hada big bushy grip, beard sales,
people are often advised to beclean shaven, because they hold
the view that clean shavenpeople are more trustworthy.
Michael Moran (31:47):
Yeah, psychology, because you're trying to hide
something Islam? Yes. I thinkthat it's around beards and
people. Yeah, we have. And itjust gave me a chance to make
the reference to anotherinteresting psychological fact,
to do with American presidents,Julian, you know, sort of, you
know, how we literally look upto tall people that we Yes, we
think we have, thereforeauthority, because we look up to
(32:09):
them. average IQ of Americans,average Americans, five foot
nine. How would you? How wouldyou act of American presidents
six foot wall? Yeah. So beingtall would seem to be an
advantage when it comes to apolitician for conveying
authority. And I suspect todaymay think about them. When was
(32:30):
the last American president thathad a beard? Because I think
today, not having having a beardwould hold you back as a
politician?
Julian Bishop (32:39):
Yes, I'm trying to think whether anyone after
Wilson had one. I can't think ofone. I think it's I think it's a
good 100 years. There is anadage in American politics that
when there are two presidentialcandidates, Americans will vote
for the candidate who's notwho's not bold. He's not bold.
(32:59):
If there are. Yeah, and if thereare two bold candidates, they'll
vote for the one with the mosthair.
Michael Moran (33:03):
Okay, but bold, bold. Yeah. I'm gonna say
there's a correlation betweenboldness and having a beard.
Yeah, it's a lot a lot of men.
Yeah. When when going bald as tocompensate then have a bit
lately.
Julian Bishop (33:16):
Yeah, today?
Yeah, I think so maybe. So. Sosalespeople, Publix the
supermarket, they recentlychanged their policy. So for
decades, they had a policy thatnone of their staff members
could have a beard. And they'verecently changed that. So you
now may be served by somebodywith a beard that when you go to
(33:37):
your local supermarket, youdidn't mind a beard, but you
didn't like stubble? Is thatright? Yeah. That is also the
position of the UK Police. Yes.
Are you aware of that? So theyhave a policy that you are
allowed to have a beard as apolice officer, but you're not
allowed to have stubble? I don'tknow how you develop a beard if
(34:00):
you're not going to have stubblefirst.
Michael Moran (34:01):
Take two weeks holy, presumably. I mean, and it
was right in thinking at somestage that the force of the Navy
traditionally always could havebeards. Yeah, and I think not so
long ago things like the RAF andthe army Weren't you weren't
allowed them unless on religiousgrounds or something?
Julian Bishop (34:17):
That's right. And that's certainly the US military
position. Yeah. So the USmilitary unless you are Sikh or
Muslim or something like that,then you are not allowed a beard
and they give you some guffabout needing to get your, your
chemical mask on, you know, yourchemical protection mask on or
(34:38):
something like that. But in theNavy, they have the opposite
issues that you have, if youhave a beard. You have to get
your permission from yourcommanding officer, if you're
going to shave that beard off inthe Navy goulash. So, but you
know, I've seen a lot of moviesabout American special forces
and they all seem to havebeards. So I'm guessing if
(34:58):
you're in one of these sorts ofspecial groups and you're
working in, you know, the beardloving Afghanistan that
Michael Moran (35:08):
the Taliban, I think it's probably difficult
not to have a beard, to behonest, if you want to mix in
Julian Bishop (35:13):
any other features of beards that you want
to draw people's attention to.
Michael Moran (35:18):
I think I've covered most of my sort of
prejudice of beards already,Julian.
Julian Bishop (35:25):
And would you describe yourself as pagana
phobic?
Michael Moran (35:29):
Assuming that's filled with beards? Nope.
Julian Bishop (35:31):
Apparently 12% of Americans are put on a phobic
right. And that's particularlyFelix women. And there's a
specific form of pagana phobiacalled Santa phobia.
Michael Moran (35:43):
Ah, fear of Santa Claus. Yes. And they're all
mistakes down the path of yourfield. Clouds are not clouds,
isn't it?
Julian Bishop (35:51):
I don't like clowns. Like I'm not fearful of
them. I just fine. Don't liethem. No, but yeah, there are
people who are 12% of Americansare gonna phobic. And of course
in America, there is never anyissue of getting somebody to
play Santa. Because there are somany people with real bushy
(36:12):
Santa beards. Yes. never anissue at Christmas. Holiday
Party time.
Michael Moran (36:16):
But what do the rest of the year because you
don't see me wandering aroundthe streets a lot. Do you? All
dancers? Yeah, you don't know.
Yeah, we
Julian Bishop (36:24):
did folk right.
Well, you know, this load ofbearded people where I live is a
road. A lot of young people havebeards. But now I did find some
very interesting to say six onwhat American men would do to
get a better beard. Did you findthis when you're in your own
search? No God, but God. 40% ofpeople said that they would
(36:45):
spend time in jail to get abetter beard. 38% of people said
they would stand in line at theDMV, which is the driver
services for a whole day, and itusually takes a whole day we're
not in Florida. But elsewhere.
(37:05):
Most Americans will do anythingother than go to stand in line
at the driver services. 38% ofAmericans said they'd be willing
to spend a day in line at theDMV to get a better beard. And
22% said they will give up sexfor the for the year.
Michael Moran (37:20):
JD I'm assuming this wasn't done by Manchester
Polytechnic, who was doing thisresearch?
Julian Bishop (37:26):
To know I don't know. It's probably something of
a similar ilk
Michael Moran (37:30):
sample probably should have dead people.
Julian Bishop (37:33):
Well, yes. Who knows? You know, so yeah. So
National Hockey League playoffs?
Are you familiar with them,Michael?
Michael Moran (37:42):
I think so. But go on with the what's the
connection to beards?
Julian Bishop (37:46):
There's a tradition in the men's NHL
playoffs, that if you are aplayer involved in the playoff,
you will not shave until yourteam has been eliminated from
the playoff. So you see in thefinal of the Stanley Cup, you
will see everyone is you know,massively hirsute and they're,
you know, beards. Absolutelyeveryone. Which is a nice thing.
(38:11):
So what would what would you doif you if you grew a beard, then
Michael Moran (38:15):
she doubled shave it off. She wouldn't like it.
Now going back to the eyes,okay. So I need to check that
step because I am my visualWayne Gretzky old in the Stanley
Cup. Didn't have him with thebeard.
Julian Bishop (38:30):
Oh, it's a it's a well known thing that they don't
shave. As the competition goeson. These beards get wilder and
wilder. So and of course noteveryone can grow a beard. No,
that's true. Yeah. So Americans.
Yeah, I think we've we'veconcluded that Americans do are
more likely to be beard thantheir European brethren. Maybe
not than their Afghani brethren,and that most American women
(38:52):
find a bed attractive.
Michael Moran (38:56):
I mean, slightly Illa T's Julie with your
research on this one. Because wethe sample surveys of this was
you know, oh, it's beenresearched multiple times. The
only things that didn't
Julian Bishop (39:08):
63%
Michael Moran (39:09):
Yeah, like to
Julian Bishop (39:10):
bed with only 20 something saying no, thank you.
I never would like a beard. Imean, they wouldn't like a beard
themselves, or they wouldn'tlike a beard in there, man. I
think a lot of it does come downto your perceptions of what a
beard brings to a man yeah, ifyou do believe that men look
better looking with a beard andyou do believe that they're more
(39:32):
confident and more dominant andyou like that. Then you can see
why women might prefer their youknow, their man, you know to be
beard or slightly beard. Yeah.
If your take on beards is thatit's a sign of homelessness and
laziness and untidiness andhygienic. Then, I guess you take
a different view.
Michael Moran (39:53):
Yeah. The research points to great
popularity in the States asopposed to the UK. I'm
fascinated that you say Withresearch on beds well don't you
Julian Bishop (40:15):
by the way, that was episode 50. Oh, I should
have made a big thing about it.
Michael Moran (40:20):
Okay. All right.
I'll be in New York by nexttime.
Julian Bishop (40:23):
So New York is episode 49. Oh, you're
Michael Moran (40:26):
not doing that.
Well, yeah. Yeah, but
Julian Bishop (40:28):
you have to do that one. Next. Yeah. Before I
publish St. Louis.
Michael Moran (40:32):
So sure, like, yeah, okay, so good. So, Julian,
one thing that AI can't do, itcan't tell us how many episodes
we've had so far. Amazingly, itforgot to mention that this
episode was episode number 50.
The Big Five Oh, Julian.
Julian Bishop (40:51):
So the big five Oh, Michael does remind me that
you had a milestone birthdayrecently.
Michael Moran (40:57):
I did Julian very recently recently as Monday and
it was the big seven Oh, he doesmake you think Julian the big
seven oh,
Julian Bishop (41:05):
what does it make you
Michael Moran (41:06):
think it makes me how lucky I've been Julian to
get yes you know I mean,threescore and 10 Julian not to
be underestimated. Sure
Julian Bishop (41:15):
lots of snare Yes, please
Michael Moran (41:16):
go dead. So I'm now living the dream monta
everyday living
Julian Bishop (41:21):
on borrowed time now.
Michael Moran (41:22):
I prefer living on the dream Julian the boat
diver ugly. Yeah.
Julian Bishop (41:26):
Okay, so you go for it. What is it? Pancho
Villa?
Michael Moran (41:30):
One of my favorite things. In fact, that's
a topic if you do American popmusic anthems Julian will
because I look see we say that
Julian Bishop (41:41):
so well. Well, congratulations on your
milestone birthday. Thank you.
Sorry, I couldn't be that.
Michael Moran (41:46):
Yeah. Well, you will be for the cricket in June.
Is that correct?
Julian Bishop (41:50):
That's right.
Although I think this episode isgoing to be released after the
cricket.
Michael Moran (41:55):
Okay, so we will mention that then. Now as
always, Julian it's goodbye forme and it's it's goodbye from
him
Unknown (42:07):
got my crazy?
lazy way right
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