October 22, 2025 • 19 mins
And Another Thing with Dave, by Dave Smith
MK Ultra and Operation Midnight Climax
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
All right, all right. Thanks for tuning in to another
episode of and another thing with Dave.
This episode we are going to be delving into Operation Midnight
Climax. It's a sub operation underneath
the umbrella of Operation MK Ultra which was the CI as mind
(00:31):
control experiment program. Their ultimate goal was to
create a Manchurian candidate tobasically erase people's minds
and be able to recreate memoriesright?
With the goal of creating like the perfect soldier or a
(00:54):
Manchurian Candidate, which is maybe somebody that you could
brainwash to go do an assassination or something that
would not remember the assassination afterwards, right?
So these are the admitted goals of some of the people involved
in the Operation MK Ultra. A lot of the records were
(01:16):
destroyed, but fortunately some were preserved and leaked.
But anyway, we're going into thesubcategory of Operation
Midnight Climax, which took place in San Francisco and in
New York. In San Francisco, the CIA rented
(01:37):
out a mansion and hired sex workers to dose unsuspecting
Johns with LSD. And then they filmed them
through one way mirrors and observed and recorded their
behavior. And, you know, of course, with
(01:59):
no consent or without these people's knowledge or consent.
So pretty hideous experiments. So here we're I'm going to be
reading an article from history.com.
This is the CIA's appalling human experiments with mind
control, and this kind of goes through a little bit of both,
(02:22):
gives a little background on thewhole story.
On April 10th, 1953, Allen Dulles, the newly appointed
director of the CIA, delivered aspeech to a gathering of
Princeton alumni. Though the event was mundane,
global tensions were running high.
The Korean War was coming to an end, and earlier that week the
(02:45):
New York Times had published a startling story asserting that
the American PO WS returning to from the country may have been
converted by communist brainwashers.
Some GIS were confessing to war crimes like carrying out germ
warfare against the Communists, a charge the US categorically
(03:08):
denied. Others were reportedly so
brainwashed that they had refused to return to the United
States at all. As if that weren't enough, the
US was weeks away from secretly sponsoring the overthrow of a
democratically elected in Iran. That was in 1953, oddly enough.
(03:28):
And here we are, full circle, trying to mess with Iran again.
And then it says. Watch full episode of America's
Book of Secrets online now. Dulles had just become the first
civilian director of an agency growing more powerful by the
day, and the speech provided an earlier glimpse into the
(03:51):
priorities for the CIA. In the past few years, we have
become accustomed to hearing much about the battle for men's
minds, the war of ideologies, hetold the attendees.
I wonder, however, whether we clearly perceive the magnitude
of the problem, whether we realize how sinister the battle
(04:13):
for men's minds has become in Soviet hands, he continued.
We might call it, in its new form, brain warfare.
Dulles proceeded to describe theSoviet brain perversion
technique as effective. Quote UN quote, Soviet brain
perversion technique as effective but abhorrent and
(04:36):
nefarious. He gestured to the American
prisoners of war returning from Korea, Shells of the men they
once were, parroting the communist propaganda they heard
cycled for weeks on end. He expressed fears and
uncertainty. Were they using chemical agents,
hypnosis, something else entirely?
(04:59):
We in the West, the CIA directorconceded, are somewhat
handicapped in brain warfare. This sort of non consensual
experiment, even on one's enemies, was an anti ethical,
was anti ethical to American values, Dulles insisted.
As well as anti ethical to what should be human values.
(05:24):
Fear of brainwashing and a brandnew breed of quote UN quote
brain warfare terrified and fascinated the American public
throughout the 1950s, spurred byboth the words of the CIA and
the stories of quote UN quote brainwashed GIS returning from
China, Korea, and the Soviet Union.
(05:46):
Newspaper headlines like new evils seen in brainwashing and
Brainwashing versus Western psychiatry offered sensational
accounts of new mind control techniques and technologies that
no man could fully resist. The paranoia began to to drift
into American culture, with books like The Manchurian
(06:09):
Candidate and The Naked Lunch playing on themes of unhinged
scientists and vast political conspiracies.
The idea of brainwashing also provided many Americans with a
compelling, almost comforting explanation for communism's
swift, swift rise. That Soviets used the tools of
(06:31):
brainwashing not just on enemy combatants, but on their own
people. Why else would so many countries
be embracing such an obviously backward ideology?
Funny to ponder that one, isn't it?
American freedom of the mind versus Soviet mind control
(06:52):
became a dividing line as stark as the Iron Curtain.
Isn't and isn't that wild? American freedom of the mind
versus Soviet mind control. But we're going to achieve
American freedom of the mind by mind control.
Wow. So now we're getting into MK
(07:17):
Ultra. Three days after his speech
decrying Soviet tactics, Dulles approved the beginning of MK
Ultra, a top secret CIA program for covert use of biological and
chemical materials. American values made for good
rhetoric, but Dulles had far grander plans for the agency's
(07:37):
Cold War agenda. MK Ultra's mind control
experiments generally centered around behavior modification via
electric shock therapy, hypnosis, polygraphs, radiation,
and a variety of drugs, toxins and chemicals.
These experiments relied on a range of test subjects who
(07:59):
freely volunteered, some who volunteered under coercion, and
some who had absolutely no idea they were involved in a sweeping
defense research program. From mentally impaired boys at a
state school to American soldiers to sexual psychopaths
at a state hospital, MK Ultra's program often preyed on the most
(08:21):
vulnerable members of society. The CIA considered Pioneers
prisoners. Excuse me?
The CIA considered prisoners especially good subjects as they
were willing to give consent in exchange for extra recreation
time or commuted sentences. Whitey Bulger, a former
(08:44):
organized crime boss, wrote of his experience as an inmate test
subject in MK Ultra. 8 Convicts in a panic and Paranoid state,
Bulger said of the 1957 tests atthe Atlanta Penitentiary where
he was serving time. Total loss of appetite.
Hallucinating the room would change shape.
(09:06):
Hours of paranoia and feeling violent.
We were experienced. We experienced horrible periods
of living, nightmares and even blood coming out of the walls.
Guys turning into skeletons in front of me.
I saw a camera change into the head of a dog.
I felt like I was going insane. Bulger claimed he had been
(09:30):
injected with LSD. Lethargic acid, diethyl
diethylamide, or acid had becomeone of the CI as key interests
for its brain warfare program, as the agency theorized it could
be useful in interrogations. In the late 1940's, the CIA
(09:52):
received reports that the SovietUnion had engaged in intensive
efforts to produce LSD and that the Soviets had attempted to
purchase the world's supply of the chemical.
One CIA officer described the agency as literally terrified of
the Soviets LSD program, largelybecause of the lack of knowledge
(10:12):
about the drug in the United States.
This was one material that we that we have, that we had what?
This is one material that we hadever been able to locate, that
really had potentially. This was the one material that
(10:36):
we had ever been able to locate that really had potentially
fantastic possibilities if used wrongly.
The offer. The officer testified.
Easy for me to say, huh? With the advent of MK Ultra, the
government's interest in LSD shifted from a defensive to an
(10:58):
offensive orientation. Agency officials noted that LSD
could be potentially useful in gaining control of bodies,
whether they were willing or not.
The CIA envisioned applications that ranged from removing people
from Europe in the case of Soviet attack, to enabling
(11:18):
assassinations of enemy leaders.On November 18th, 1953, a group
of 10 scientists met at a cabin located deep in the Forest of
Maryland. After extended discussions, the
participants agreed that to truly understand the value of
the drug, an unwitting experiment would be desirable.
(11:44):
The CIA remained keenly aware ofhow the public would react to
any discovery of MK Ultra. Even if they believe these
programs to be essential to the national security, they must
remain a tightly guarded secret.How would the CIA possibly
explain dosing unassuming Americans with LSD?
(12:07):
Precautions must be taken not only to protect the operations
from exposure to enemy forces, but also to conceal these
activities from the American public in general, wrote the
CIA's Inspector General in 1957.The knowledge that the agency is
engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have
(12:30):
serious repercussions and political and diplomatic
circles, and would be detrimental to the
accomplishment of its mission. You think?
You think if the people knew half of what the CIA did, they
would flip? OK, now we're getting into
Operation Midnight Climax, whichis our focus this evening.
(13:04):
Operation Midnight Climax the CIas initial experiments with LSD
were Philly fairly simple, if shockingly unethical.
The agency generally dosed single targets, finding
volunteers when they could, sometimes slipping the drug into
drinks of fellow fellow CIA employees.
(13:26):
Over time, these LSD experimentsgrew increasingly elaborate.
Perhaps the most notorious of these was Project Operation
Midnight Climax in 1955 on 225 Chestnut St. in San Francisco.
(13:47):
The CIA was devoting substantialattention to decorating a
bedroom. George White oversaw the
interior renovations. Not much of A decorator, White
had a storied career in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics.
When the CIA moved into drug experiments, bringing White on
(14:10):
board became a top priority. Being hung up on pictures of
French can can dancers and flowers.
He draped lush red bedroom curtains over the windows,
framed a series of Tilos lyric posters with black silk mats,
(14:32):
blah, blah, blah. They're describing how he
decorated this bedroom. White then hired a Berkeley
engineering student who installed speakers.
OK, so we're going to, I'm goingto play a couple clips of a
video that's going to explain all this here.
So now that I've given a little history there, let me play a
(14:55):
couple clips. Let's see here, stop there,
screen here. So now we're going to learn a
little bit more about Mr. White here.
(15:17):
Yikes. White enlisted undercover sex
workers to entice unwitting clients back to the house here
and into the bedroom where they were dosed with LSD.
And this is a clip from Bay AreaBabylon on YouTube visiting the
Operation Midnight Climax House.Taking on the ride of their
life, all while White was mere feet away.
(15:40):
Taking close notes. And in exchange for their
participation, the sex workers received modest and he was also
Is he taking notes on everythingthat came out of your mouth for
long. You're shuffled out of the house
and told to sleep off the head high and forget the entire night
ever happened. It was all just a bad dream.
(16:02):
And here's another clip. Now the safe house here across
the street at 225 Chestnut. It shut down operations in 1965.
Now, in the spring of that year,some high UPS in the government
stumbled upon some classified documents and information
regarding MK Ultra's knack for what.
Do we got going on there? No, no, no, no, Here we go.
(16:55):
So there it is. There's another perspective to
George White. And yet here is another
perspective. So there it is.
(17:43):
Mind blow, right? Unbelievable.
So I'm almost speechless, right?Like that's it, That's that's
that's your that's your Operation midnight climax and
(18:07):
it's it's a mind blow that the government would go to that
lengths. I mean, that's so dirty to be
slipping people drugs to try to wipe their mind, try to try to
make them insane and then erase their memory.
(18:30):
Just so there's a book that cameout recently called Chaos by Tom
O'Neill, and he draws a connection to some people that
were part of this MK Ultra experiment.
So in this, what I just went through, they talked about
(18:53):
Whitey Bulger, but in Tom O'Neill's book Chaos, he goes
into detail about how Charles Manson was involved in Operation
MK Ultra. Also, Ted Kaczynski, the
Unabomber, was involved in Operation MK Ultra.
(19:14):
So anyway, I guess that's a wrapfor this episode.
I appreciate you tuning into another episode of And Another
Thing with Dave, Dark History. If you're digging on what I'm
doing, picking up what I'm putting down, please do spread
it around. All right, peace out.
(19:36):
Catch you next time.
All right, all right. Thanks for tuning in to another
episode of and another thing with Dave.
This episode we are going to be delving into Operation Midnight
Climax. It's a sub operation underneath
the umbrella of Operation MK Ultra which was the CI as mind
(00:31):
control experiment program. Their ultimate goal was to
create a Manchurian candidate tobasically erase people's minds
and be able to recreate memoriesright?
With the goal of creating like the perfect soldier or a
(00:54):
Manchurian Candidate, which is maybe somebody that you could
brainwash to go do an assassination or something that
would not remember the assassination afterwards, right?
So these are the admitted goals of some of the people involved
in the Operation MK Ultra. A lot of the records were
(01:16):
destroyed, but fortunately some were preserved and leaked.
But anyway, we're going into thesubcategory of Operation
Midnight Climax, which took place in San Francisco and in
New York. In San Francisco, the CIA rented
(01:37):
out a mansion and hired sex workers to dose unsuspecting
Johns with LSD. And then they filmed them
through one way mirrors and observed and recorded their
behavior. And, you know, of course, with
(01:59):
no consent or without these people's knowledge or consent.
So pretty hideous experiments. So here we're I'm going to be
reading an article from history.com.
This is the CIA's appalling human experiments with mind
control, and this kind of goes through a little bit of both,
(02:22):
gives a little background on thewhole story.
On April 10th, 1953, Allen Dulles, the newly appointed
director of the CIA, delivered aspeech to a gathering of
Princeton alumni. Though the event was mundane,
global tensions were running high.
The Korean War was coming to an end, and earlier that week the
(02:45):
New York Times had published a startling story asserting that
the American PO WS returning to from the country may have been
converted by communist brainwashers.
Some GIS were confessing to war crimes like carrying out germ
warfare against the Communists, a charge the US categorically
(03:08):
denied. Others were reportedly so
brainwashed that they had refused to return to the United
States at all. As if that weren't enough, the
US was weeks away from secretly sponsoring the overthrow of a
democratically elected in Iran. That was in 1953, oddly enough.
(03:28):
And here we are, full circle, trying to mess with Iran again.
And then it says. Watch full episode of America's
Book of Secrets online now. Dulles had just become the first
civilian director of an agency growing more powerful by the
day, and the speech provided an earlier glimpse into the
(03:51):
priorities for the CIA. In the past few years, we have
become accustomed to hearing much about the battle for men's
minds, the war of ideologies, hetold the attendees.
I wonder, however, whether we clearly perceive the magnitude
of the problem, whether we realize how sinister the battle
(04:13):
for men's minds has become in Soviet hands, he continued.
We might call it, in its new form, brain warfare.
Dulles proceeded to describe theSoviet brain perversion
technique as effective. Quote UN quote, Soviet brain
perversion technique as effective but abhorrent and
(04:36):
nefarious. He gestured to the American
prisoners of war returning from Korea, Shells of the men they
once were, parroting the communist propaganda they heard
cycled for weeks on end. He expressed fears and
uncertainty. Were they using chemical agents,
hypnosis, something else entirely?
(04:59):
We in the West, the CIA directorconceded, are somewhat
handicapped in brain warfare. This sort of non consensual
experiment, even on one's enemies, was an anti ethical,
was anti ethical to American values, Dulles insisted.
As well as anti ethical to what should be human values.
(05:24):
Fear of brainwashing and a brandnew breed of quote UN quote
brain warfare terrified and fascinated the American public
throughout the 1950s, spurred byboth the words of the CIA and
the stories of quote UN quote brainwashed GIS returning from
China, Korea, and the Soviet Union.
(05:46):
Newspaper headlines like new evils seen in brainwashing and
Brainwashing versus Western psychiatry offered sensational
accounts of new mind control techniques and technologies that
no man could fully resist. The paranoia began to to drift
into American culture, with books like The Manchurian
(06:09):
Candidate and The Naked Lunch playing on themes of unhinged
scientists and vast political conspiracies.
The idea of brainwashing also provided many Americans with a
compelling, almost comforting explanation for communism's
swift, swift rise. That Soviets used the tools of
(06:31):
brainwashing not just on enemy combatants, but on their own
people. Why else would so many countries
be embracing such an obviously backward ideology?
Funny to ponder that one, isn't it?
American freedom of the mind versus Soviet mind control
(06:52):
became a dividing line as stark as the Iron Curtain.
Isn't and isn't that wild? American freedom of the mind
versus Soviet mind control. But we're going to achieve
American freedom of the mind by mind control.
Wow. So now we're getting into MK
(07:17):
Ultra. Three days after his speech
decrying Soviet tactics, Dulles approved the beginning of MK
Ultra, a top secret CIA program for covert use of biological and
chemical materials. American values made for good
rhetoric, but Dulles had far grander plans for the agency's
(07:37):
Cold War agenda. MK Ultra's mind control
experiments generally centered around behavior modification via
electric shock therapy, hypnosis, polygraphs, radiation,
and a variety of drugs, toxins and chemicals.
These experiments relied on a range of test subjects who
(07:59):
freely volunteered, some who volunteered under coercion, and
some who had absolutely no idea they were involved in a sweeping
defense research program. From mentally impaired boys at a
state school to American soldiers to sexual psychopaths
at a state hospital, MK Ultra's program often preyed on the most
(08:21):
vulnerable members of society. The CIA considered Pioneers
prisoners. Excuse me?
The CIA considered prisoners especially good subjects as they
were willing to give consent in exchange for extra recreation
time or commuted sentences. Whitey Bulger, a former
(08:44):
organized crime boss, wrote of his experience as an inmate test
subject in MK Ultra. 8 Convicts in a panic and Paranoid state,
Bulger said of the 1957 tests atthe Atlanta Penitentiary where
he was serving time. Total loss of appetite.
Hallucinating the room would change shape.
(09:06):
Hours of paranoia and feeling violent.
We were experienced. We experienced horrible periods
of living, nightmares and even blood coming out of the walls.
Guys turning into skeletons in front of me.
I saw a camera change into the head of a dog.
I felt like I was going insane. Bulger claimed he had been
(09:30):
injected with LSD. Lethargic acid, diethyl
diethylamide, or acid had becomeone of the CI as key interests
for its brain warfare program, as the agency theorized it could
be useful in interrogations. In the late 1940's, the CIA
(09:52):
received reports that the SovietUnion had engaged in intensive
efforts to produce LSD and that the Soviets had attempted to
purchase the world's supply of the chemical.
One CIA officer described the agency as literally terrified of
the Soviets LSD program, largelybecause of the lack of knowledge
(10:12):
about the drug in the United States.
This was one material that we that we have, that we had what?
This is one material that we hadever been able to locate, that
really had potentially. This was the one material that
(10:36):
we had ever been able to locate that really had potentially
fantastic possibilities if used wrongly.
The offer. The officer testified.
Easy for me to say, huh? With the advent of MK Ultra, the
government's interest in LSD shifted from a defensive to an
(10:58):
offensive orientation. Agency officials noted that LSD
could be potentially useful in gaining control of bodies,
whether they were willing or not.
The CIA envisioned applications that ranged from removing people
from Europe in the case of Soviet attack, to enabling
(11:18):
assassinations of enemy leaders.On November 18th, 1953, a group
of 10 scientists met at a cabin located deep in the Forest of
Maryland. After extended discussions, the
participants agreed that to truly understand the value of
the drug, an unwitting experiment would be desirable.
(11:44):
The CIA remained keenly aware ofhow the public would react to
any discovery of MK Ultra. Even if they believe these
programs to be essential to the national security, they must
remain a tightly guarded secret.How would the CIA possibly
explain dosing unassuming Americans with LSD?
(12:07):
Precautions must be taken not only to protect the operations
from exposure to enemy forces, but also to conceal these
activities from the American public in general, wrote the
CIA's Inspector General in 1957.The knowledge that the agency is
engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have
(12:30):
serious repercussions and political and diplomatic
circles, and would be detrimental to the
accomplishment of its mission. You think?
You think if the people knew half of what the CIA did, they
would flip? OK, now we're getting into
Operation Midnight Climax, whichis our focus this evening.
(13:04):
Operation Midnight Climax the CIas initial experiments with LSD
were Philly fairly simple, if shockingly unethical.
The agency generally dosed single targets, finding
volunteers when they could, sometimes slipping the drug into
drinks of fellow fellow CIA employees.
(13:26):
Over time, these LSD experimentsgrew increasingly elaborate.
Perhaps the most notorious of these was Project Operation
Midnight Climax in 1955 on 225 Chestnut St. in San Francisco.
(13:47):
The CIA was devoting substantialattention to decorating a
bedroom. George White oversaw the
interior renovations. Not much of A decorator, White
had a storied career in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics.
When the CIA moved into drug experiments, bringing White on
(14:10):
board became a top priority. Being hung up on pictures of
French can can dancers and flowers.
He draped lush red bedroom curtains over the windows,
framed a series of Tilos lyric posters with black silk mats,
(14:32):
blah, blah, blah. They're describing how he
decorated this bedroom. White then hired a Berkeley
engineering student who installed speakers.
OK, so we're going to, I'm goingto play a couple clips of a
video that's going to explain all this here.
So now that I've given a little history there, let me play a
(14:55):
couple clips. Let's see here, stop there,
screen here. So now we're going to learn a
little bit more about Mr. White here.
(15:17):
Yikes. White enlisted undercover sex
workers to entice unwitting clients back to the house here
and into the bedroom where they were dosed with LSD.
And this is a clip from Bay AreaBabylon on YouTube visiting the
Operation Midnight Climax House.Taking on the ride of their
life, all while White was mere feet away.
(15:40):
Taking close notes. And in exchange for their
participation, the sex workers received modest and he was also
Is he taking notes on everythingthat came out of your mouth for
long. You're shuffled out of the house
and told to sleep off the head high and forget the entire night
ever happened. It was all just a bad dream.
(16:02):
And here's another clip. Now the safe house here across
the street at 225 Chestnut. It shut down operations in 1965.
Now, in the spring of that year,some high UPS in the government
stumbled upon some classified documents and information
regarding MK Ultra's knack for what.
Do we got going on there? No, no, no, no, Here we go.
(16:55):
So there it is. There's another perspective to
George White. And yet here is another
perspective. So there it is.
(17:43):
Mind blow, right? Unbelievable.
So I'm almost speechless, right?Like that's it, That's that's
that's your that's your Operation midnight climax and
(18:07):
it's it's a mind blow that the government would go to that
lengths. I mean, that's so dirty to be
slipping people drugs to try to wipe their mind, try to try to
make them insane and then erase their memory.
(18:30):
Just so there's a book that cameout recently called Chaos by Tom
O'Neill, and he draws a connection to some people that
were part of this MK Ultra experiment.
So in this, what I just went through, they talked about
(18:53):
Whitey Bulger, but in Tom O'Neill's book Chaos, he goes
into detail about how Charles Manson was involved in Operation
MK Ultra. Also, Ted Kaczynski, the
Unabomber, was involved in Operation MK Ultra.
(19:14):
So anyway, I guess that's a wrapfor this episode.
I appreciate you tuning into another episode of And Another
Thing with Dave, Dark History. If you're digging on what I'm
doing, picking up what I'm putting down, please do spread
it around. All right, peace out.
(19:36):
Catch you next time.
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