October 21, 2025 • 33 mins
According to Erica Nemser, the CEO of Ardent, “Hard things are hard, but not impossible.” Meet the entrepreneur who is making carbon capture for the “hard to abate” industries a reality!
As Erica says, if everyone in these industries could snap on Ardent’s membrane carbon capture solution, “that’s a third of global emissions of CO₂. We would reach all of our goals almost immediately.” In this episode, Ilham and Erica have a fascinating discussion about falling in love with the customers' problems, celebrating failure as part of the journey, and even what track driving and entrepreneurship have in common!
Erica Nemser is the CEO of Ardent, an advanced membrane technology start-up headquartered in the USA. Ardent provides separation solutions for some of the world's toughest industrial chemistry challenges, including carbon capture and storage.
At Syensqo we are proud to partner with Ardent, combining Syensqo's world-class materials science with Ardent's innovative membrane carbon capture solutions.
Timestamps
- 1:30 - Love of science, chemistry and entrepreneurship
- 2:52- The switch to carbon capture economy and Ardent’s role in it
- 6:12 - The impact of carbon capture on climate change and the economy
- 7:37 - Journey of starting Ardent
- 11:15 - Small companies as a disruptive force
- 14:54 - Inspiration from the “absence of materials”
- 19:44 - The power of AND
- 22:29 - Ardently working for solutions
- 24:13 - All about people
- 26:43 - Recipe for success
- 30:11 - What track driving and entrepreneurship have in common
For additional details about the podcast, show notes, and access to resources mentioned during the show, please visit https://www.syensqo.com/en/podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ilham Kadri (00:00):
Today, I'm so happy to be speaking with Erica Naer
today.
Uh, let me do it.
Too many two days Today I'm sohappy to be speaking with Erica
Emser.
Erica is the CEO of Ardent, anadvance membrane technology
(00:20):
startup headquartered in the usArdent provides separation
solutions for some of theworld's toughest industrial
chemistry challenges, includingcarbon capture and storage.
And at Science Co, we are proudto partner with ardent combining
world class material sciencefrom Science Co with Ardent's
(00:43):
innovative membrane carboncapture solutions.
And I'm really interested tohear what she has to say about
the future of carbon capture,her leadership lessons and so
much more.
Erica, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Erica Nemser (01:01):
Thank you very much.
I'm excited to be here andlooking forward to the
conversation.
Ilham Kadri (01:06):
definitely and I always, uh, like Erica to ask my
guests where it all began.
So I'll start by asking you,where does your love of science,
chemistry and we share that andentrepreneurship come from?
Did it start when you were very,very young or later?
Tell us more.
Erica Nemser (01:24):
Sure it definitely started, um, when I was very,
very young though I don't knowat the time if I appreciated how
much.
So I can definitely remembergoing to school my first day of
kindergarten, like so many kids,and I was excited about learning
and being able to a little bitshare what I already knew.
I knew my letters.
(01:45):
Um, and I could, I could read alittle bit.
I knew addition and subtractiona little bit, and I knew that
carbon had four bonds.
Um, because my father was achemical engineer and I was
shocked to learn that actuallychemistry did not appear on the
kindergarten curriculum.
Um, and it was, it was mostlyreading and math.
(02:07):
Um, but, so that was sort ofwhat kicked it off and, and
started a through line inappreciation of.
For me, math and science.
And then ultimately I became,um, an economist by training
before, before leading intobusiness.
But I definitely had also the,the stints as an, uh, a kid
entrepreneur doing all thethings that kid entrepreneurs
(02:28):
do, so,
Ilham Kadri (02:30):
I love it, so, so chemistry back in the
kindergarten classroom, I loveit because, yeah, chemistry is
fun.
So, um, and, and, you know, andlater on, so let's go ahead and
delate into the issue of carboncapture because this is what's,
uh, you are the one, what's yourcompany specializing in?
And the technology is crucialfor fighting climate change.
(02:52):
I.
So tell us what are you doing?
You know?
Exactly.
I know it's incredibly importantof course, because carbon cap
capture and storage hasgenerally been too expensive to
scale, like any new technology.
But ardent may be able to changethat and leapfrog that
challenge.
And I know you already havepilots for your carbon capture
(03:13):
technology in several location.
Can you tell our listeners, um.
How is the switch to a carboncapture economy going and how is
Ardent going to play a biggerrole?
Erica Nemser (03:26):
Absolutely.
So I would say if we step backand say what's the nature of the
challenge that our customers arelooking at, they, we look at the
hard to abate sectors in theindustrial space.
So that space broadly isresponsible for about a third of
CO2 emissions.
So it's very big and it's hardto abate because it doesn't have
(03:47):
an easy solution that we see on.
In other sectors.
So for example, intransportation, we can all buy
electric vehicles.
Those are commercial now.
And that's the, that's theabatement approach for that, for
transportation industry and inpower generation.
We all see that wind and solarare now commercial solutions.
(04:08):
If you look at the industrialspace, which is a space that's
responsible for making most ofthe energy and most of the
materials we use today, whetherit's things like steel and
cement.
Or it's the small components inyour, um.
In your smartphone.
Those industries need a way toreduce those CO2 emissions, and
(04:30):
for most of them, they havelarge factories and installation
and need to reduce the CO2 fromthat existing infrastructure.
And so carbon capture is theeasiest, most practical way for
them to reduce their CO2footprint and move to.
(04:50):
Um, this sort of energytransition in a post emissions
world, which we can all see.
The challenge has been there'snot an easy solution
technologically to do that orreally economically and business
wise.
So if you step back and thinkof, um.
Of customers, particularly thosewith big infrastructure, it's
(05:11):
not just about finding somethingthat technically works.
It needs to physically fit intheir plant, needs to be small
enough, easy enough to use, notcomplicated, not have chemical
emissions people want, you know,they just want to snap on.
Into their existinginfrastructure.
And that's what membranesrepresent, a new solution that's
not energy intensive, that'seasy to use, um, that's
(05:35):
practical for thoseapplications.
And so we do have a great set ofpartners and we have a great set
of customers who've trialed thistechnology in different
industries in a steel, um,plant, in a kiln process, as
well as in a refinery.
And all those are actually inEurope.
Ilham Kadri (05:55):
Yeah, and you mentioned it, the importance for
such solution for the heart toabate, specifically in the
European region you justmentioned, which has.
You know, uh, carbon neutralitygoals, right?
And many of us, like Science Co.
We believe we can reach carbonneutrality by 2040, so 10 years
earlier than the eu.
Uh, but we need solutionsindeed, and we need plug and
(06:18):
play, you know, in our.
In our plant, in ourmanufacturing plant.
So you talks about simplicity.
Um, e easy, you know, to, to,to, to get it into your facility
small enough, um, and indeedaffordability.
So, um, I.
So, as I mentioned earlier,science Co is, is a partner and
(06:40):
Science Co ventures actually,which is our venture capital
fund, invest in Ardent becauseit creates membrane solutions
that could help decarbonize, uh,the hard to abate sector.
Indeed.
Um, and, and I mean, if all theheavy industrial sector were
able to deploy these carboncaptured technologies, what
(07:00):
impact would that have onclimate's?
Uh, change Erica.
Erica Nemser (07:05):
So if everyone could snap on today, this
solution that's a third ofglobal emissions of CO2.
So we would reach.
All of our goals almostimmediately in that sector.
Right?
So it would be, um, dramatic interms of reducing today's
emissions.
It's not a small, um,contribution.
(07:26):
It's not a small challenge, butit also means it's a, um, real
opportunity to make change.
We are not looking at taking onsomething small.
We're looking at taking onsomething that has tremendous
meaningful impact.
And to your point, we could hitthose 2040 goals tomorrow,
Ilham Kadri (07:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if you have critical mass,it also will weigh in into the
cost.
Right.
And affordability.
And I heard that your companyobviously was actually started
by your father.
And it began as a research lab.
Uh, and you told us how, youknow, from father to daughter,
(08:06):
you, you get probably some, uh,uh, positive infection and, uh,
you know, wisdom to why notchemistry.
Uh, but you, Erica, youtransform it into a profitable
company producing concretesolutions.
In other words, you, you took 30years of experience in this
special technology.
And added the startup mentalityto its right.
(08:27):
Can you tell us about thisjourney and how you did that?
Erica Nemser (08:33):
Absolutely.
So it's definitely been ajourney and the team at Ardent
is an amazing team of scientistsand engineers, and they were,
when I, when I came and joined,and my background is, I went
from, um.
School to management consulting,and then I came to Arden.
(08:55):
So when I joined, it really wasaround the question of, wow,
this is game changingtechnology, right?
It can have a huge impact ontough chemical separations,
which are in some cases veryenergy intensive, and there are
many, many use cases for this.
Carbon capture is one, butthat's an enormous market.
(09:16):
That would be, that's buildingpotentially a multi-billion
dollar company.
And so I came with the sort ofskillset and approach of how do
you take technology that has thepotential to do that and
actually deliver that realitybecause it's very different than
when I came to the company, um,had initial sales in other
(09:37):
markets and was selling.
Um, you know, a large number ofunits, but not at the scale of
carbon capture.
And so that thinking is reallyabout how do you bring focus,
how do you make decisionsaround?
Um, which technologies weregonna move forward and which
platforms and which were not.
(09:58):
Um, so for example, when I came,the company had 30 different
programs they were working onfor 30 different application
areas, and there really was athinking that many scientists
have in many places, which is,they're like lottery tickets.
The more you have, the morelikely you are to win.
Right, but they're not exogenousevents like the lottery, that if
(10:20):
you hold more tickets, you'remore likely to win.
Actually, your fate is in yourown hands.
You have to make the winyourself.
So it really is about focusingon one or two that you're gonna
try to deliver into the market.
So we focused around carboncapture and this technology
platform, and we built.
Um, from that, an amazing teambecause many people tell me that
(10:43):
I'm running a technology companyand I, I answer yes, but really
I'm running.
A people company because thetechnology doesn't do itself,
the people do.
And so, um, really building thatgreat team and building a set of
partnerships because as a smallcompany we have a lot of
strengths, like being able tohave focus on one question and
things like that.
(11:03):
But we can't do everythingourselves.
And so being successful atventure scale enterprise, so
something that is going toaddress trillion dollar markets
with billion dollar solutions isreally about having the right
partners that if you wanna gofast, go by yourself, but if you
wanna go far, go with others.
And the science co relationshipis entirely emblematic of that.
Ilham Kadri (11:25):
Uh, thank you Erica, and, and it's amazing.
I mean, we'll, we'll come backto the people side at the end
of, of the show, but I, I reallylove what you are saying.
I think it's gonna resonate withour science co explorers.
We call our self explorers, notanymore employees or colleagues,
uh, because, you know, I promotealso in the company focus.
(11:45):
Focus.
Right.
And move on.
Because with focus you canachieve, you can fail earlier,
hopefully you can, you know, dowhat it takes and then move on.
Rather than doing, trying to domany too many things and not
delivering.
And I've heard you say that'soften, uh, large companies are
looked.
To as the innovators, but thatsmall companies can also be a
(12:08):
disruptive force.
I, I can only agree with this.
C Can you elaborate for ourlisteners on that and what do
startups and small companiesneed to do really to be ahead in
innovation and maybe support,uh, partners like our ourselves.
We are mid-size cap and maybeeven bigger companies in the
(12:28):
chemical industry.
Because you say this, we cannotdo it alone.
Erica Nemser (12:33):
Absolutely.
So I'd say obviously bigcompanies have been the
innovative force for a long timeand they bring a lot of
strengths to the table, thebreadth of skills, the breadth
of knowledge, manufacturing, um,capabilities.
There's a ton there.
So you could look at that as asmall company and say, I could
never compete with that.
Um, but I'm a big believer in,in.
In competitive advantage andwhere is that relative
(12:56):
advantage?
So when you look at a smallcompany, you know, we are
smaller, we are very nimble.
So decision making at Arden and,and in many small companies, you
know, we can decide over thecourse of an afternoon in a
room.
And that makes it reallyapplicable to spaces where
you're trying to innovate, notjust the technology, but if you
look at carbon capture, thedevelopment of a market.
(13:18):
So being able to understand thatand react quickly is important.
And that's something that's justeasy, easier to do with a
smaller group of people often.
And so that's, that's somethingthat that small companies have
and that level of focus.
We frankly don't have a massivelegacy in the market of existing
products that we have to deliveron a quarterly basis.
(13:42):
To financial markets.
Now, in general, one thinks ofthat as a strength, but you can
also think of it as you know,that's asking a large company to
do two different things at once.
Manage that level of existingproducts and protecting those
products going forward.
Um, and innovating in parallel.
And so for a small company, weonly have the one half, right?
(14:04):
And you could look at that as adisadvantage, but we can look at
that as, you know, how can weuse that level of focus to do
something with our small, nimbleteam?
And that's always been, I thinkthe, the real value that we're
bringing to the equation.
And then say, we are gonnapartner on these other things.
We are never gonna be, um.
(14:25):
The first in class in domainswhere other people already have
those, those uh, experiences.
We are not going to become thefirst in class EPC firm right
next year, but we can partnerwith one.
We need to be first in class inour technology innovation.
So when you kind of unlock someof these traditional paradigms,
(14:46):
you do find new solutions thatenable us to go further faster.
Ilham Kadri (14:51):
And I love it.
So, uh, you, you, you talkedabout, you know, the focus, uh,
finding your sweet spots goingafter it.
I think you developed a pilotscale today.
What is it, Erica?
A ton of CO2 per per day, right?
Erica Nemser (15:07):
We're not quite at a ton per day.
We're still at in the, in thekilos, but the tongue per day is
the next, the next horizon.
Ilham Kadri (15:14):
Is the next goal.
But there are multiple fieldtries as end customers.
Right.
You are doing In Austria?
In Austria, I know for SteveSimmons application.
So, and you talks about thepower of partnerships.
So obviously I know the sciencecore one, but what are you
looking for?
Are you looking for.
Financing.
(15:35):
Are you looking for de-risking?
Are you looking for customersuse case, a blend of it?
How do you approachpartnerships?
Erica Nemser (15:43):
I would say all of the above, and the way we look
at it is to look at where we arenow and where we need to to get
everyone looks at.
We need to be capturing CO2 atmassive scale and can look at.
What is the, as you mentioned,what's the 2040 target and what
does that world look like?
We focus also in addition tothat, to saying, well, what's
(16:04):
the transition path?
Right?
You're going from oneequilibrium to another, so what
is the path that takes us thereand what are the things that we
need to do that.
And do we need to do thosethings or can we partner?
So it is all of the above.
For example, you know, ismanufacturing gonna happen
in-house or can we work with apartner to do that?
(16:24):
And if we have to do some of thepilot, um, uh, manufacturing
early, how does it transition tolater?
So the answer for today may bedifferent than the answer for
long term on some of these,because, you know, we might have
to develop our own customersinitially.
To prove to the world that wecan do it, but ultimately we'll
have partners to be able to dothat, so we just look across the
(16:44):
entire answer.
And say, what are the thingsthat we need and who has those
capabilities and those domains,and how do we partner And, and a
partnership is not, um, it's notlike opening a door.
You don't have one, and then youdo and you walk through.
It really is about building thatover time and experimenting.
I.
With, with an organization on,what is it like to partner with
(17:06):
them?
What is their culture like?
What, how does it fit withintheir strategic vision?
Is there vision that this isgonna be something big or more
contained?
And so even within the notion ofwe need customer partners, we
need manufacturing partners, weneed engineering.
Um.
And procurement partners to beable to deliver this quickly and
(17:26):
well for customers.
Um, it really is about buildingthose relationships and letting
them grow and bloom over timebecause it's the same for the
big organization.
They're taking a bet on a smallorganization.
Their question is always, well,how good is the science?
How good is the team?
And are you guys gonna still behere in two years?
So we have to prove ourselvestoo, right?
(17:46):
It's not, not just other peopleproving, proving themselves to
us.
Ilham Kadri (17:50):
It's, it's amazing.
You're so inspiring and I cannotagree more.
And, and, you know, uh, Iwatched your Ted talk, uh,
Erica, and I really liked whatyou said about, um, I remember
the absence of materials, uh,creating the inspiration for
you, for all of us to create newthings.
And I couldn't agree more.
Uh, and, and in a way thatinspires us too at Science Co to
(18:12):
create lighter materials toreplace steel, for example.
So when we talk aboutcompetition with my, our
explorers, I said, you know,it's not our peers or people who
are doing the same of, or moreof the same.
Actually, I.
It is what you can replace inanother type of material.
So you create these new spaces,either with new materials, new
(18:33):
application, um, uh, you know,so give us maybe an example of
how the absence of materialsinspired you.
Erica Nemser (18:42):
Absolutely.
Um, I would say there are two,two big domains that we think of
in the, in the absence ofmaterials.
There's, as you mentioned,there's a better solution to a
problem that exists now.
I would say we compete againstthe absence of a solution.
I.
Often, which is that there isn'ta way to do something now so
(19:02):
people aren't out hunting for,oh, can you just make this 10%
cheaper or 15% faster?
They might not even be huntingat all because they don't
recognize that that solusolution, and the one we all
know from our daily lives is ifyou rewound to our parents and
asked them 30 years ago, howmuch are you looking for a
(19:23):
smartphone?
They would all say, what's asmartphone?
And I'm not looking for one.
Right.
And, and yet here we are livingin this world where they're
ubiquitous.
And so one of the things that welooked at with, with our
membranes is their separationmembranes, as you mentioned.
Um, and one of the places itstarted was, um, really
(19:43):
addressing something that's doneby distillation right now in the
chemicals industry.
And so for folks in theindustry, obviously they
recognize how, how prominentdistillation is for folks not in
the industry.
It's one of the big workhorsesof doing separation.
It's not always about.
Making the materials we want,it's often about separating
those materials into the puritythat, that we can use.
(20:06):
And the big technology that'soften used for that is
distillation.
So y'all may know distillationfrom alcohol and, and distilling
alcohol.
It is very energy intensive.
It, it requires massiveinfrastructure and so it only
gets used in places that canafford a giant.
A giant, uh, distillationcolumn.
(20:26):
And just to give you, toquantify that, there's one
separation in the chemicalsindustry, ethylene separation
that's responsible for about,um, 5% of energy consumption
globally.
You could run Singapore on theamount of energy that this
separation uses, right?
It's not small.
And so we looked at that andsaid, okay, but there's a bunch
of things that are gettingwasted right now.
(20:48):
Product that is getting wasted,energy that's getting wasted,
you know, emissions that aregetting created.
Because there's no.
Um, not just lower cost, easierway to do that separation with
something like membranes ratherthan boiling things, right?
But there's all the things thatare not getting served and we,
(21:08):
we tackle those in plants, whichis how do we use membranes which
do scale down our lower energy,are easy to use and do bolt on
to do stuff that you can't evenimagine doing.
So all of a sudden we can lowerthe CI score across an entire
plant and increase itsproductivity.
You know, carbon captures justthe next step in that whole
(21:29):
process.
Ilham Kadri (21:30):
Yeah, no, it's music to my ears and to all the
audience, especially thechemists in the audience and the
science co explorers because I,I mean, I, I used to say if you
can reuse, the waste is notwaste anymore.
Uh, and, and the opportunity forus.
Uh, as, as, uh, as a scientist,as business people, is to
(21:53):
eliminate that waste or recycleit.
And, and you are on the heart ofit.
And I just love it because, youknow, wh when I joined the
chemical industry 30 years agoand it has been one of the best
rights in my life in thisindustry, um, I was shocked back
in 2019 moving to Europe fromthe US and hearing that.
(22:14):
Chemistry is, is is a problem.
Right.
Um, and, and I think you wouldagree that chemistry is part of
the solution, right?
And, and innovation material.
Innovation, finding, as yousaid, solutions to problems or
the, the unmet needs.
And sometimes we don't know,even it's your iPhone story or
you know, the smartphone story,right?
(22:36):
Nobody imagined it's, it'll be,there will be more than one in
our handbags today.
Erica Nemser (22:41):
Mm-hmm.
Ilham Kadri (22:42):
Erica, uh, the, this podcast is about the power
of the end, A and d, and how wecan make companies both
sustainable and profitable.
And you are, frankly one of thebest, you know, um, yeah.
Example, uh, because yourcompany is literally creating
solutions through chemistry thatcan give us more sustainable
(23:04):
future profitably.
So as a sustainable businessleader yourself, what advice.
Would you give to, uh, to ouraudience listeners, to other
young leaders who want to make adifference in the world?
Erica Nemser (23:19):
I would say absolutely bring that passion
and desire to make a differenceand your skills, technical
skills, whether it's scientific,technical skills, marketing,
technical skills, whatever itis, bring that to the challenge.
I.
But I would definitely agreewith the, and, and to think
about it in, in that case,around profitability and
(23:41):
solutions, the, and really isthe customer.
We need to deliver solutions toproblems that customers have,
and we need to fall in love withtheir problems and not just fall
in love with our technology.
So I love membranes.
I think they're cool.
My team loves membranes.
(24:02):
They think they're cool.
Customers actually, like theythink membranes are interesting,
but really they want a solutionand they don't care if it's
membranes or fairy dust, right?
And so our job is to reallythink about what makes the
membranes wonderful to thembecause it solves their problem.
Is there problem?
They need something that's easyto use.
(24:23):
They need something that'ssmall.
They need something that fits inthe plant right here.
They need something that's notgonna make.
The operators have a hassle.
And so we need to solve thatproblem that the technology is
just the start.
It's the, it opens the door, butwhat customers really need is a
(24:43):
solution to that heartache andproblem that they have, whatever
that is.
Right.
And for us, we see those.
You know, you brought upreusing.
Like we had a customer who cameto us and said, look, we just
wanna use less solvent.
Because we, we think we shouldbe recycling it.
Do you have a membrane that can,you know, dehydrate it while
we're using it so we can driveour reaction and just do it
(25:06):
without dumping solvent out?
And we said yes we can.
Right?
But it's falling in love withthat problem and not saying, I
have a membrane with these kindsof characteristics.
And I think that's what's gonnaget us there.
Because we can't, you know,finger wag at customers and tell
them you should do this and youshould do that.
At the end of the day, we needto recognize that they have
(25:26):
business imperatives, they havemany other imperatives, and we
have to address them at thatlevel.
Ilham Kadri (25:31):
I love it.
I used to say to our, uh,innovators and researchers, um,
don't fall in love with yourtechnologies.
Right?
Be agnostic to technology.
Bring the solution, but I'mgonna steal it for you.
Uh, from you is the fall in lovewith the problem, right?
And be obsessed by that.
I just love it and I reallyadmire.
(25:53):
Your determination and yourbelief that ntic is impossible.
And I've heard you say that hardthings are hard, but not
impossible, and that mindsetsare key and this is what it's
all about.
And carbon capture capture isone of those things that, that
has been hard, but as you areproviding, uh, is not
impossible.
And in fact, with the rightsolutions, with the right
(26:14):
chemistry, with the right, um,you know, advancements and
progress in sciences.
It, it can even be costeffective.
Uh, I heard, I mean, I know thatyou recently changed the name of
your company to Ardent, right?
Which is, you know, a beautifulEnglish word, but it's the same
in French, for example.
(26:34):
I really like this name as itbrings to mind people who are
never giving up and ardentlylooking for solution, does, how
did you find this name and doesthe name have any special
meaning for you?
Erica Nemser (26:48):
Um, it does have special meaning around exactly
what you mentioned, which is weare committed to being part of
the energy transition anddelivering things to customers,
but that is not going to betrivial, right?
It's going to requirecommitment, endurance, grit.
(27:09):
That's all in by, by Ardent thatwe need to be ardent, right?
That it's, it's not gonna comeeasy, but it will come.
And so that's the spirit.
Ilham Kadri (27:19):
Yeah.
This is amazing.
Congratulations for the name andthe branding.
Um, be before, uh, you know, I,I, I close with the people side
and the culture side.
Uh, I mean, we're sitting here.
This is, uh, April 11th, 2025,and the whole world.
Is in convulsion and changing.
And that's where I'm not gonnaask a question about tariffs at
(27:41):
all, uh, Erica, but you know, Imean, we, we are seeing the,
the, the us you know, leavingthe Paris Accord, China
targeting 2060 carbon neutralityEurope, not knowing how to.
The how, not the what.
They're still, you know, goingafter the 2050 but goal.
(28:02):
But you know, the, how has beena bit a challenge in the past
few years, specifically for thechemical industry with a lot of
red tapes and et cetera.
Uh, and you are at the heart ofthis sustainability and
profitability.
How does this impact yourvision?
How does this impact yourcompany, your people?
Erica Nemser (28:23):
So I would say, I mean.
People are people.
So we are all impacted by thesame things that impacts
everyone else every day.
Right?
And um, there's definitely atheme there that everyone at
Ardent is there to make adifference.
And so we're impacted by thelarger.
(28:48):
Changes out in the ecosystemthat make that look harder or
farther away.
I would also say that the, it'sa committed group of people who
truly believe that we can make adifference, and so it's combined
with a, well, let's put ourheads down and get on with it.
(29:09):
It, right?
Because we are going to have tobe the, the people that deliver
this and the world will see, andhow do we find a way through it.
So I think that spirit is reallycrucial.
You can look at any problem,people can look at any problem
and say, here's all the reasonsit's hard, or it's not gonna
work.
This, this, this, this.
(29:30):
There's a reason it hasn't beensolved and there's a reason it's
been done this way forever.
And we could just put our headsin the sand and avoid it.
Or we can look at a problem andsay, but what if we looked at it
this way?
And what if we tackled it thisway and what if?
And that belief that it'sfundamentally solvable opens up
(29:51):
the aperture to a lot ofcreativity, and it's combining
that creativity without, let'scall it fool heartiness.
Like here is how, like you'rebound by thermodynamics at the
end of the day, right?
Like, so there's only so muchyou're gonna open the aperture,
but.
But opening the aperture reallyhelps.
And we, you know, this week,last week and probably next
week, we're looking at, well,where's the market gonna go and
(30:13):
where are the people that wannabe customers now?
And how do we fall in love withthat problem and where do we
deliver that?
And as I always say, pivot onpaper before you pivot out in
the real world.
And, and that's what we'respending our time doing is
thinking about.
You know, there's a market anduses and people are sequestering
CO2 right now.
(30:33):
So it's not that it doesn'texist, it's out there.
We can work with them, we candeliver that right now, and we
will do that this week.
Next week, in the followingweek, we just shipped an
additional carbon capture rigand had it, um, commissioned
last week.
So like it's still happening.
Ilham Kadri (30:50):
yeah, yeah.
And it's.
Erica Nemser (30:54):
Mm-hmm.
Ilham Kadri (30:55):
of us that this is happening.
Um, and whatever happens, right?
Uh, it's important that science,technology and building a
business case because you, youare just not making innovation
and IP and putting them in thefridge.
This is really appliedinnovation, right, which go,
comes to our manufacturingplants and which can help us to
(31:17):
decarbonize efficiently, well.
You know, uh, conclude thisconversation with the people
side.
I know this is, uh, uh, in, inthe, in, in the core and the,
and the hearts of, of yourcompany.
And, and if your leadership, um,and also know how you have built
a company culture around peopleand you call Ardents a people
(31:38):
company.
How did you build that culture,uh, and how does it affect.
Um, the determination, themotivation, maybe the
creativity, um, of your teamsand tell maybe our audience, you
know, I mean, you have afascinating resume out there
from an economics, a formerMcKinsey leader.
Uh, I mean, and you came toArdent, uh, and turn it from a
(32:02):
research lab to a commerciallydriven, and we heard you now
saying, be obsessed by thesolution.
Go and find it.
Nothing is impossible.
So how did you build thisculture that, did you have a
vision of it or is it somethingyou co-construct?
Give us your recipe of success.
Erica Nemser (32:21):
Sure.
I, I am happy to share thoughts.
Um, I firmly believe success issomewhere you visit, not
somewhere you live.
Right.
And so we also have, part of ourculture is recognizing and, and
celebrating failure because it'spart of the journey.
And if you think you're gonna besuccessful every minute, you're
gonna be disappointed.
(32:41):
Um, but it is taking things likethat, like success and really
breaking it down.
And saying, well, what attributeis really important to us?
And we wrote them down, what arethe attributes that are
important to us culturally?
Ownership, creativity.
Right.
And we made a list of thoseattributes and we said, well,
(33:03):
how are, which ones do we havenow?
Because I came to Ardent and ithad a really good culture
around, you know, creativity,professionalism, innovation, um,
scientific rigor isn't, and alot of those in collaboration
we're an incrediblycollaborative group, um, with
not a lot of politics.
And so.
We basically said we're gonna doa from these, which are great
(33:26):
building blocks to that plus,right?
Here's the culture we wannabuild and what are we gonna have
to do to get there as aleadership team, as individuals
in our recruiting, in ourmessaging.
In our day-to-day activities andrecognize that it's a process,
it's a years long process.
Um, and we've tried to reflectthat in everything we do in my
(33:48):
all hands meetings, in the way Iwork with teams, in the
opportunities that I give, um,leaders in the way that our
leaders work with the folks ontheir team.
Um, and, and it's really a joyto see people succeeding and
leading.
Right.
Our leadership team is made upof people in their twenties,
(34:09):
thirties, forties, fifties, andsixties.
Right.
And we work really welltogether.
And so, and they embody allthose characteristics.
So it's, it's great, but it's aprocess and it has to be
deliberate and embedded.
I would say, if there's twopieces of success, it's not,
we're gonna do all this work andthen culture's gonna be, its
other little category.
(34:29):
It's how is the culture embeddedin every meeting.
Right, and the way that we, waythat we work.
Ilham Kadri (34:35):
Yeah.
And it takes time and each of usright, to contribute to that
culture.
I'm sure our science school, uh,and, uh, you know, from so
times, uh, and even after thedemerger.
We, we exactly did the processyou, you mentioned, to create
that common, common purpose.
Um, and I know you are purposeled, you know, uh, uh, a leader
(34:57):
and a transformer.
So I can continue thisconversation for longer.
But one last question, Erica.
I know that you, your workprobably takes a lot of your
time.
Um, as you are passionate and,uh, you know, really getting
into something bigger, but whatdo you do?
What do you enjoy doing when youare not at the office?
Erica Nemser (35:18):
When I am not at the office, um, one of my
hobbies that I really enjoy is Iam a track driver and an
instructor and coach for trackdriving.
And so I find that, um, it's,it's thrilling and enjoyable and
wonderful and there are a ton ofparallels to obviously the work
(35:38):
world.
So it's.
Like what?
Um, so the same thing in problemsolving, right?
If you wanna drive fast at thetrek, you know, when people
start out, they think of it as,okay, I just have to get around
the corners.
And then I can, um, sort of putmy foot to the floor and go fast
on the straight.
And that definitely works.
But if you wanna be really fast,you need to get around the
(36:00):
corners fast.
And that's a, that's a problemsolving challenge.
You are limited by your owncapabilities as a driver.
And there's three things, thecapabilities as a driver and the
mechanics of your car.
And in modern cars, the um.
The computer in the car, but youcan use those as tools and it's
the same thing.
(36:20):
Um, when I was starting to driveand I would be following a car
in and I'd be like, I can't keepup with that car.
I'm, I, but I am not gonna losethat car in the corner.
And, and I could sit there andbemoan, but my car is heavier
and my power to weight ratio andblah, blah, blah.
But I, if you come at that andsay, well, what do I have?
Well, I got four wheel drive andif I can just put my car into a
(36:43):
four wheel slide, I'm gonna takethat.
And you solve the problem thatyou have in front of you using
the resources that you have, andit's the same.
And um, and it's a lot likework.
Another one, which is driving onthe track is you've got two
brains.
You've got the brain that'ssaying, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no.
Slow down.
And you've got the brain thatknows physics.
(37:05):
That says, oh no, we, we haveplenty of grip, we have plenty
of downforce and we're gonnamake it, and you've gotta manage
those.
And it's the same at, it's thesame at at work.
Ilham Kadri (37:16):
Amazing.
Amazing.
You're so special.
Uh, the only per truck driver.
I welcome to the show.
There may be, there may be more.
Go Co coming in.
Well, thank you so much for thisamazing conversation, Erica.
Uh, you're such a, a role modelfor, for all of us as we seek to
make our businesses.
(37:37):
Sustainable and profitable.
Um, uh, and and powered byculture.
And people.
And people.
And people, right?
And the mindsets you taught usabout disruption.
About being obsessed by thesolutions, uh, and love the
solutions, not yourtechnologies.
I loved it.
I will, I will steal it fromyou.
Erica Nemser (37:56):
It is.
Ilham Kadri (37:56):
and no.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I steal from the best and, andleadership, or you've inspired
us.
You inspired me and I'm sureeveryone who is listening.
Thank you very much, Erica.
Erica Nemser (38:07):
Thank you.
You are an inspiration andeverything you're doing with
Science Co is an inspiration.
I can absolutely give thatcompliment right back to you and
thank you so much for having me.
Ilham Kadri (38:17):
Thank you my dear.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Erica Nemser (38:20):
Bye-bye.
Ilham Kadri (38:23):
Well today I was thrilled to welcome Erica and
emer to the show.
Uh, obviously we heard abouttechnologies addressing climate
change like carbon capture, butmore than that we heard about,
um, the culture of her company,how she's, you know, focusing
her team to focus in order todeliver more the power of
(38:46):
partnership to de-risk and gofaster.
'cause we cannot do it alone.
We heard, uh, her determination,her vision, her perseverance to
actually deliver.
A, a solution to a problem.
And actually she stayed fully inlove with the solution.
Don't fall in love with theproblem, uh, with the
(39:07):
technology, fall in love withthe, with the solution, and then
turn her company into profitablecompany.
Uh, and I loved what she saidabout success is something you
visit, you do not live in.
So, um, and, and, and that's DNAof the startup, which is
becoming a leader.
Carbon capturing the world.
(39:29):
It just an amazing showcasethat, you know, with the right
culture, with the right mantraand, and set of attributes,
ownership, creativity,collaboration, you, you can make
things happen And, you know, um,an amazing brain.
An amazing heart, very special.
(39:50):
And indeed the only first.
The only and the first truckdrivers are welcomed into the
show.
Today, I'm so happy to be speaking with Erica Naer
today.
Uh, let me do it.
Too many two days Today I'm sohappy to be speaking with Erica
Emser.
Erica is the CEO of Ardent, anadvance membrane technology
(00:20):
startup headquartered in the usArdent provides separation
solutions for some of theworld's toughest industrial
chemistry challenges, includingcarbon capture and storage.
And at Science Co, we are proudto partner with ardent combining
world class material sciencefrom Science Co with Ardent's
(00:43):
innovative membrane carboncapture solutions.
And I'm really interested tohear what she has to say about
the future of carbon capture,her leadership lessons and so
much more.
Erica, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Erica Nemser (01:01):
Thank you very much.
I'm excited to be here andlooking forward to the
conversation.
Ilham Kadri (01:06):
definitely and I always, uh, like Erica to ask my
guests where it all began.
So I'll start by asking you,where does your love of science,
chemistry and we share that andentrepreneurship come from?
Did it start when you were very,very young or later?
Tell us more.
Erica Nemser (01:24):
Sure it definitely started, um, when I was very,
very young though I don't knowat the time if I appreciated how
much.
So I can definitely remembergoing to school my first day of
kindergarten, like so many kids,and I was excited about learning
and being able to a little bitshare what I already knew.
I knew my letters.
(01:45):
Um, and I could, I could read alittle bit.
I knew addition and subtractiona little bit, and I knew that
carbon had four bonds.
Um, because my father was achemical engineer and I was
shocked to learn that actuallychemistry did not appear on the
kindergarten curriculum.
Um, and it was, it was mostlyreading and math.
(02:07):
Um, but, so that was sort ofwhat kicked it off and, and
started a through line inappreciation of.
For me, math and science.
And then ultimately I became,um, an economist by training
before, before leading intobusiness.
But I definitely had also the,the stints as an, uh, a kid
entrepreneur doing all thethings that kid entrepreneurs
(02:28):
do, so,
Ilham Kadri (02:30):
I love it, so, so chemistry back in the
kindergarten classroom, I loveit because, yeah, chemistry is
fun.
So, um, and, and, you know, andlater on, so let's go ahead and
delate into the issue of carboncapture because this is what's,
uh, you are the one, what's yourcompany specializing in?
And the technology is crucialfor fighting climate change.
(02:52):
I.
So tell us what are you doing?
You know?
Exactly.
I know it's incredibly importantof course, because carbon cap
capture and storage hasgenerally been too expensive to
scale, like any new technology.
But ardent may be able to changethat and leapfrog that
challenge.
And I know you already havepilots for your carbon capture
(03:13):
technology in several location.
Can you tell our listeners, um.
How is the switch to a carboncapture economy going and how is
Ardent going to play a biggerrole?
Erica Nemser (03:26):
Absolutely.
So I would say if we step backand say what's the nature of the
challenge that our customers arelooking at, they, we look at the
hard to abate sectors in theindustrial space.
So that space broadly isresponsible for about a third of
CO2 emissions.
So it's very big and it's hardto abate because it doesn't have
(03:47):
an easy solution that we see on.
In other sectors.
So for example, intransportation, we can all buy
electric vehicles.
Those are commercial now.
And that's the, that's theabatement approach for that, for
transportation industry and inpower generation.
We all see that wind and solarare now commercial solutions.
(04:08):
If you look at the industrialspace, which is a space that's
responsible for making most ofthe energy and most of the
materials we use today, whetherit's things like steel and
cement.
Or it's the small components inyour, um.
In your smartphone.
Those industries need a way toreduce those CO2 emissions, and
(04:30):
for most of them, they havelarge factories and installation
and need to reduce the CO2 fromthat existing infrastructure.
And so carbon capture is theeasiest, most practical way for
them to reduce their CO2footprint and move to.
(04:50):
Um, this sort of energytransition in a post emissions
world, which we can all see.
The challenge has been there'snot an easy solution
technologically to do that orreally economically and business
wise.
So if you step back and thinkof, um.
Of customers, particularly thosewith big infrastructure, it's
(05:11):
not just about finding somethingthat technically works.
It needs to physically fit intheir plant, needs to be small
enough, easy enough to use, notcomplicated, not have chemical
emissions people want, you know,they just want to snap on.
Into their existinginfrastructure.
And that's what membranesrepresent, a new solution that's
not energy intensive, that'seasy to use, um, that's
(05:35):
practical for thoseapplications.
And so we do have a great set ofpartners and we have a great set
of customers who've trialed thistechnology in different
industries in a steel, um,plant, in a kiln process, as
well as in a refinery.
And all those are actually inEurope.
Ilham Kadri (05:55):
Yeah, and you mentioned it, the importance for
such solution for the heart toabate, specifically in the
European region you justmentioned, which has.
You know, uh, carbon neutralitygoals, right?
And many of us, like Science Co.
We believe we can reach carbonneutrality by 2040, so 10 years
earlier than the eu.
Uh, but we need solutionsindeed, and we need plug and
(06:18):
play, you know, in our.
In our plant, in ourmanufacturing plant.
So you talks about simplicity.
Um, e easy, you know, to, to,to, to get it into your facility
small enough, um, and indeedaffordability.
So, um, I.
So, as I mentioned earlier,science Co is, is a partner and
(06:40):
Science Co ventures actually,which is our venture capital
fund, invest in Ardent becauseit creates membrane solutions
that could help decarbonize, uh,the hard to abate sector.
Indeed.
Um, and, and I mean, if all theheavy industrial sector were
able to deploy these carboncaptured technologies, what
(07:00):
impact would that have onclimate's?
Uh, change Erica.
Erica Nemser (07:05):
So if everyone could snap on today, this
solution that's a third ofglobal emissions of CO2.
So we would reach.
All of our goals almostimmediately in that sector.
Right?
So it would be, um, dramatic interms of reducing today's
emissions.
It's not a small, um,contribution.
(07:26):
It's not a small challenge, butit also means it's a, um, real
opportunity to make change.
We are not looking at taking onsomething small.
We're looking at taking onsomething that has tremendous
meaningful impact.
And to your point, we could hitthose 2040 goals tomorrow,
Ilham Kadri (07:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if you have critical mass,it also will weigh in into the
cost.
Right.
And affordability.
And I heard that your companyobviously was actually started
by your father.
And it began as a research lab.
Uh, and you told us how, youknow, from father to daughter,
(08:06):
you, you get probably some, uh,uh, positive infection and, uh,
you know, wisdom to why notchemistry.
Uh, but you, Erica, youtransform it into a profitable
company producing concretesolutions.
In other words, you, you took 30years of experience in this
special technology.
And added the startup mentalityto its right.
(08:27):
Can you tell us about thisjourney and how you did that?
Erica Nemser (08:33):
Absolutely.
So it's definitely been ajourney and the team at Ardent
is an amazing team of scientistsand engineers, and they were,
when I, when I came and joined,and my background is, I went
from, um.
School to management consulting,and then I came to Arden.
(08:55):
So when I joined, it really wasaround the question of, wow,
this is game changingtechnology, right?
It can have a huge impact ontough chemical separations,
which are in some cases veryenergy intensive, and there are
many, many use cases for this.
Carbon capture is one, butthat's an enormous market.
(09:16):
That would be, that's buildingpotentially a multi-billion
dollar company.
And so I came with the sort ofskillset and approach of how do
you take technology that has thepotential to do that and
actually deliver that realitybecause it's very different than
when I came to the company, um,had initial sales in other
(09:37):
markets and was selling.
Um, you know, a large number ofunits, but not at the scale of
carbon capture.
And so that thinking is reallyabout how do you bring focus,
how do you make decisionsaround?
Um, which technologies weregonna move forward and which
platforms and which were not.
(09:58):
Um, so for example, when I came,the company had 30 different
programs they were working onfor 30 different application
areas, and there really was athinking that many scientists
have in many places, which is,they're like lottery tickets.
The more you have, the morelikely you are to win.
Right, but they're not exogenousevents like the lottery, that if
(10:20):
you hold more tickets, you'remore likely to win.
Actually, your fate is in yourown hands.
You have to make the winyourself.
So it really is about focusingon one or two that you're gonna
try to deliver into the market.
So we focused around carboncapture and this technology
platform, and we built.
Um, from that, an amazing teambecause many people tell me that
(10:43):
I'm running a technology companyand I, I answer yes, but really
I'm running.
A people company because thetechnology doesn't do itself,
the people do.
And so, um, really building thatgreat team and building a set of
partnerships because as a smallcompany we have a lot of
strengths, like being able tohave focus on one question and
things like that.
(11:03):
But we can't do everythingourselves.
And so being successful atventure scale enterprise, so
something that is going toaddress trillion dollar markets
with billion dollar solutions isreally about having the right
partners that if you wanna gofast, go by yourself, but if you
wanna go far, go with others.
And the science co relationshipis entirely emblematic of that.
Ilham Kadri (11:25):
Uh, thank you Erica, and, and it's amazing.
I mean, we'll, we'll come backto the people side at the end
of, of the show, but I, I reallylove what you are saying.
I think it's gonna resonate withour science co explorers.
We call our self explorers, notanymore employees or colleagues,
uh, because, you know, I promotealso in the company focus.
(11:45):
Focus.
Right.
And move on.
Because with focus you canachieve, you can fail earlier,
hopefully you can, you know, dowhat it takes and then move on.
Rather than doing, trying to domany too many things and not
delivering.
And I've heard you say that'soften, uh, large companies are
looked.
To as the innovators, but thatsmall companies can also be a
(12:08):
disruptive force.
I, I can only agree with this.
C Can you elaborate for ourlisteners on that and what do
startups and small companiesneed to do really to be ahead in
innovation and maybe support,uh, partners like our ourselves.
We are mid-size cap and maybeeven bigger companies in the
(12:28):
chemical industry.
Because you say this, we cannotdo it alone.
Erica Nemser (12:33):
Absolutely.
So I'd say obviously bigcompanies have been the
innovative force for a long timeand they bring a lot of
strengths to the table, thebreadth of skills, the breadth
of knowledge, manufacturing, um,capabilities.
There's a ton there.
So you could look at that as asmall company and say, I could
never compete with that.
Um, but I'm a big believer in,in.
In competitive advantage andwhere is that relative
(12:56):
advantage?
So when you look at a smallcompany, you know, we are
smaller, we are very nimble.
So decision making at Arden and,and in many small companies, you
know, we can decide over thecourse of an afternoon in a
room.
And that makes it reallyapplicable to spaces where
you're trying to innovate, notjust the technology, but if you
look at carbon capture, thedevelopment of a market.
(13:18):
So being able to understand thatand react quickly is important.
And that's something that's justeasy, easier to do with a
smaller group of people often.
And so that's, that's somethingthat that small companies have
and that level of focus.
We frankly don't have a massivelegacy in the market of existing
products that we have to deliveron a quarterly basis.
(13:42):
To financial markets.
Now, in general, one thinks ofthat as a strength, but you can
also think of it as you know,that's asking a large company to
do two different things at once.
Manage that level of existingproducts and protecting those
products going forward.
Um, and innovating in parallel.
And so for a small company, weonly have the one half, right?
(14:04):
And you could look at that as adisadvantage, but we can look at
that as, you know, how can weuse that level of focus to do
something with our small, nimbleteam?
And that's always been, I thinkthe, the real value that we're
bringing to the equation.
And then say, we are gonnapartner on these other things.
We are never gonna be, um.
(14:25):
The first in class in domainswhere other people already have
those, those uh, experiences.
We are not going to become thefirst in class EPC firm right
next year, but we can partnerwith one.
We need to be first in class inour technology innovation.
So when you kind of unlock someof these traditional paradigms,
(14:46):
you do find new solutions thatenable us to go further faster.
Ilham Kadri (14:51):
And I love it.
So, uh, you, you, you talkedabout, you know, the focus, uh,
finding your sweet spots goingafter it.
I think you developed a pilotscale today.
What is it, Erica?
A ton of CO2 per per day, right?
Erica Nemser (15:07):
We're not quite at a ton per day.
We're still at in the, in thekilos, but the tongue per day is
the next, the next horizon.
Ilham Kadri (15:14):
Is the next goal.
But there are multiple fieldtries as end customers.
Right.
You are doing In Austria?
In Austria, I know for SteveSimmons application.
So, and you talks about thepower of partnerships.
So obviously I know the sciencecore one, but what are you
looking for?
Are you looking for.
Financing.
(15:35):
Are you looking for de-risking?
Are you looking for customersuse case, a blend of it?
How do you approachpartnerships?
Erica Nemser (15:43):
I would say all of the above, and the way we look
at it is to look at where we arenow and where we need to to get
everyone looks at.
We need to be capturing CO2 atmassive scale and can look at.
What is the, as you mentioned,what's the 2040 target and what
does that world look like?
We focus also in addition tothat, to saying, well, what's
(16:04):
the transition path?
Right?
You're going from oneequilibrium to another, so what
is the path that takes us thereand what are the things that we
need to do that.
And do we need to do thosethings or can we partner?
So it is all of the above.
For example, you know, ismanufacturing gonna happen
in-house or can we work with apartner to do that?
(16:24):
And if we have to do some of thepilot, um, uh, manufacturing
early, how does it transition tolater?
So the answer for today may bedifferent than the answer for
long term on some of these,because, you know, we might have
to develop our own customersinitially.
To prove to the world that wecan do it, but ultimately we'll
have partners to be able to dothat, so we just look across the
(16:44):
entire answer.
And say, what are the thingsthat we need and who has those
capabilities and those domains,and how do we partner And, and a
partnership is not, um, it's notlike opening a door.
You don't have one, and then youdo and you walk through.
It really is about building thatover time and experimenting.
I.
With, with an organization on,what is it like to partner with
(17:06):
them?
What is their culture like?
What, how does it fit withintheir strategic vision?
Is there vision that this isgonna be something big or more
contained?
And so even within the notion ofwe need customer partners, we
need manufacturing partners, weneed engineering.
Um.
And procurement partners to beable to deliver this quickly and
(17:26):
well for customers.
Um, it really is about buildingthose relationships and letting
them grow and bloom over timebecause it's the same for the
big organization.
They're taking a bet on a smallorganization.
Their question is always, well,how good is the science?
How good is the team?
And are you guys gonna still behere in two years?
So we have to prove ourselvestoo, right?
(17:46):
It's not, not just other peopleproving, proving themselves to
us.
Ilham Kadri (17:50):
It's, it's amazing.
You're so inspiring and I cannotagree more.
And, and, you know, uh, Iwatched your Ted talk, uh,
Erica, and I really liked whatyou said about, um, I remember
the absence of materials, uh,creating the inspiration for
you, for all of us to create newthings.
And I couldn't agree more.
Uh, and, and in a way thatinspires us too at Science Co to
(18:12):
create lighter materials toreplace steel, for example.
So when we talk aboutcompetition with my, our
explorers, I said, you know,it's not our peers or people who
are doing the same of, or moreof the same.
Actually, I.
It is what you can replace inanother type of material.
So you create these new spaces,either with new materials, new
(18:33):
application, um, uh, you know,so give us maybe an example of
how the absence of materialsinspired you.
Erica Nemser (18:42):
Absolutely.
Um, I would say there are two,two big domains that we think of
in the, in the absence ofmaterials.
There's, as you mentioned,there's a better solution to a
problem that exists now.
I would say we compete againstthe absence of a solution.
I.
Often, which is that there isn'ta way to do something now so
(19:02):
people aren't out hunting for,oh, can you just make this 10%
cheaper or 15% faster?
They might not even be huntingat all because they don't
recognize that that solusolution, and the one we all
know from our daily lives is ifyou rewound to our parents and
asked them 30 years ago, howmuch are you looking for a
(19:23):
smartphone?
They would all say, what's asmartphone?
And I'm not looking for one.
Right.
And, and yet here we are livingin this world where they're
ubiquitous.
And so one of the things that welooked at with, with our
membranes is their separationmembranes, as you mentioned.
Um, and one of the places itstarted was, um, really
(19:43):
addressing something that's doneby distillation right now in the
chemicals industry.
And so for folks in theindustry, obviously they
recognize how, how prominentdistillation is for folks not in
the industry.
It's one of the big workhorsesof doing separation.
It's not always about.
Making the materials we want,it's often about separating
those materials into the puritythat, that we can use.
(20:06):
And the big technology that'soften used for that is
distillation.
So y'all may know distillationfrom alcohol and, and distilling
alcohol.
It is very energy intensive.
It, it requires massiveinfrastructure and so it only
gets used in places that canafford a giant.
A giant, uh, distillationcolumn.
(20:26):
And just to give you, toquantify that, there's one
separation in the chemicalsindustry, ethylene separation
that's responsible for about,um, 5% of energy consumption
globally.
You could run Singapore on theamount of energy that this
separation uses, right?
It's not small.
And so we looked at that andsaid, okay, but there's a bunch
of things that are gettingwasted right now.
(20:48):
Product that is getting wasted,energy that's getting wasted,
you know, emissions that aregetting created.
Because there's no.
Um, not just lower cost, easierway to do that separation with
something like membranes ratherthan boiling things, right?
But there's all the things thatare not getting served and we,
(21:08):
we tackle those in plants, whichis how do we use membranes which
do scale down our lower energy,are easy to use and do bolt on
to do stuff that you can't evenimagine doing.
So all of a sudden we can lowerthe CI score across an entire
plant and increase itsproductivity.
You know, carbon captures justthe next step in that whole
(21:29):
process.
Ilham Kadri (21:30):
Yeah, no, it's music to my ears and to all the
audience, especially thechemists in the audience and the
science co explorers because I,I mean, I, I used to say if you
can reuse, the waste is notwaste anymore.
Uh, and, and the opportunity forus.
Uh, as, as, uh, as a scientist,as business people, is to
(21:53):
eliminate that waste or recycleit.
And, and you are on the heart ofit.
And I just love it because, youknow, wh when I joined the
chemical industry 30 years agoand it has been one of the best
rights in my life in thisindustry, um, I was shocked back
in 2019 moving to Europe fromthe US and hearing that.
(22:14):
Chemistry is, is is a problem.
Right.
Um, and, and I think you wouldagree that chemistry is part of
the solution, right?
And, and innovation material.
Innovation, finding, as yousaid, solutions to problems or
the, the unmet needs.
And sometimes we don't know,even it's your iPhone story or
you know, the smartphone story,right?
(22:36):
Nobody imagined it's, it'll be,there will be more than one in
our handbags today.
Erica Nemser (22:41):
Mm-hmm.
Ilham Kadri (22:42):
Erica, uh, the, this podcast is about the power
of the end, A and d, and how wecan make companies both
sustainable and profitable.
And you are, frankly one of thebest, you know, um, yeah.
Example, uh, because yourcompany is literally creating
solutions through chemistry thatcan give us more sustainable
(23:04):
future profitably.
So as a sustainable businessleader yourself, what advice.
Would you give to, uh, to ouraudience listeners, to other
young leaders who want to make adifference in the world?
Erica Nemser (23:19):
I would say absolutely bring that passion
and desire to make a differenceand your skills, technical
skills, whether it's scientific,technical skills, marketing,
technical skills, whatever itis, bring that to the challenge.
I.
But I would definitely agreewith the, and, and to think
about it in, in that case,around profitability and
(23:41):
solutions, the, and really isthe customer.
We need to deliver solutions toproblems that customers have,
and we need to fall in love withtheir problems and not just fall
in love with our technology.
So I love membranes.
I think they're cool.
My team loves membranes.
(24:02):
They think they're cool.
Customers actually, like theythink membranes are interesting,
but really they want a solutionand they don't care if it's
membranes or fairy dust, right?
And so our job is to reallythink about what makes the
membranes wonderful to thembecause it solves their problem.
Is there problem?
They need something that's easyto use.
(24:23):
They need something that'ssmall.
They need something that fits inthe plant right here.
They need something that's notgonna make.
The operators have a hassle.
And so we need to solve thatproblem that the technology is
just the start.
It's the, it opens the door, butwhat customers really need is a
(24:43):
solution to that heartache andproblem that they have, whatever
that is.
Right.
And for us, we see those.
You know, you brought upreusing.
Like we had a customer who cameto us and said, look, we just
wanna use less solvent.
Because we, we think we shouldbe recycling it.
Do you have a membrane that can,you know, dehydrate it while
we're using it so we can driveour reaction and just do it
(25:06):
without dumping solvent out?
And we said yes we can.
Right?
But it's falling in love withthat problem and not saying, I
have a membrane with these kindsof characteristics.
And I think that's what's gonnaget us there.
Because we can't, you know,finger wag at customers and tell
them you should do this and youshould do that.
At the end of the day, we needto recognize that they have
(25:26):
business imperatives, they havemany other imperatives, and we
have to address them at thatlevel.
Ilham Kadri (25:31):
I love it.
I used to say to our, uh,innovators and researchers, um,
don't fall in love with yourtechnologies.
Right?
Be agnostic to technology.
Bring the solution, but I'mgonna steal it for you.
Uh, from you is the fall in lovewith the problem, right?
And be obsessed by that.
I just love it and I reallyadmire.
(25:53):
Your determination and yourbelief that ntic is impossible.
And I've heard you say that hardthings are hard, but not
impossible, and that mindsetsare key and this is what it's
all about.
And carbon capture capture isone of those things that, that
has been hard, but as you areproviding, uh, is not
impossible.
And in fact, with the rightsolutions, with the right
(26:14):
chemistry, with the right, um,you know, advancements and
progress in sciences.
It, it can even be costeffective.
Uh, I heard, I mean, I know thatyou recently changed the name of
your company to Ardent, right?
Which is, you know, a beautifulEnglish word, but it's the same
in French, for example.
(26:34):
I really like this name as itbrings to mind people who are
never giving up and ardentlylooking for solution, does, how
did you find this name and doesthe name have any special
meaning for you?
Erica Nemser (26:48):
Um, it does have special meaning around exactly
what you mentioned, which is weare committed to being part of
the energy transition anddelivering things to customers,
but that is not going to betrivial, right?
It's going to requirecommitment, endurance, grit.
(27:09):
That's all in by, by Ardent thatwe need to be ardent, right?
That it's, it's not gonna comeeasy, but it will come.
And so that's the spirit.
Ilham Kadri (27:19):
Yeah.
This is amazing.
Congratulations for the name andthe branding.
Um, be before, uh, you know, I,I, I close with the people side
and the culture side.
Uh, I mean, we're sitting here.
This is, uh, April 11th, 2025,and the whole world.
Is in convulsion and changing.
And that's where I'm not gonnaask a question about tariffs at
(27:41):
all, uh, Erica, but you know, Imean, we, we are seeing the,
the, the us you know, leavingthe Paris Accord, China
targeting 2060 carbon neutralityEurope, not knowing how to.
The how, not the what.
They're still, you know, goingafter the 2050 but goal.
(28:02):
But you know, the, how has beena bit a challenge in the past
few years, specifically for thechemical industry with a lot of
red tapes and et cetera.
Uh, and you are at the heart ofthis sustainability and
profitability.
How does this impact yourvision?
How does this impact yourcompany, your people?
Erica Nemser (28:23):
So I would say, I mean.
People are people.
So we are all impacted by thesame things that impacts
everyone else every day.
Right?
And um, there's definitely atheme there that everyone at
Ardent is there to make adifference.
And so we're impacted by thelarger.
(28:48):
Changes out in the ecosystemthat make that look harder or
farther away.
I would also say that the, it'sa committed group of people who
truly believe that we can make adifference, and so it's combined
with a, well, let's put ourheads down and get on with it.
(29:09):
It, right?
Because we are going to have tobe the, the people that deliver
this and the world will see, andhow do we find a way through it.
So I think that spirit is reallycrucial.
You can look at any problem,people can look at any problem
and say, here's all the reasonsit's hard, or it's not gonna
work.
This, this, this, this.
(29:30):
There's a reason it hasn't beensolved and there's a reason it's
been done this way forever.
And we could just put our headsin the sand and avoid it.
Or we can look at a problem andsay, but what if we looked at it
this way?
And what if we tackled it thisway and what if?
And that belief that it'sfundamentally solvable opens up
(29:51):
the aperture to a lot ofcreativity, and it's combining
that creativity without, let'scall it fool heartiness.
Like here is how, like you'rebound by thermodynamics at the
end of the day, right?
Like, so there's only so muchyou're gonna open the aperture,
but.
But opening the aperture reallyhelps.
And we, you know, this week,last week and probably next
week, we're looking at, well,where's the market gonna go and
(30:13):
where are the people that wannabe customers now?
And how do we fall in love withthat problem and where do we
deliver that?
And as I always say, pivot onpaper before you pivot out in
the real world.
And, and that's what we'respending our time doing is
thinking about.
You know, there's a market anduses and people are sequestering
CO2 right now.
(30:33):
So it's not that it doesn'texist, it's out there.
We can work with them, we candeliver that right now, and we
will do that this week.
Next week, in the followingweek, we just shipped an
additional carbon capture rigand had it, um, commissioned
last week.
So like it's still happening.
Ilham Kadri (30:50):
yeah, yeah.
And it's.
Erica Nemser (30:54):
Mm-hmm.
Ilham Kadri (30:55):
of us that this is happening.
Um, and whatever happens, right?
Uh, it's important that science,technology and building a
business case because you, youare just not making innovation
and IP and putting them in thefridge.
This is really appliedinnovation, right, which go,
comes to our manufacturingplants and which can help us to
(31:17):
decarbonize efficiently, well.
You know, uh, conclude thisconversation with the people
side.
I know this is, uh, uh, in, inthe, in, in the core and the,
and the hearts of, of yourcompany.
And, and if your leadership, um,and also know how you have built
a company culture around peopleand you call Ardents a people
(31:38):
company.
How did you build that culture,uh, and how does it affect.
Um, the determination, themotivation, maybe the
creativity, um, of your teamsand tell maybe our audience, you
know, I mean, you have afascinating resume out there
from an economics, a formerMcKinsey leader.
Uh, I mean, and you came toArdent, uh, and turn it from a
(32:02):
research lab to a commerciallydriven, and we heard you now
saying, be obsessed by thesolution.
Go and find it.
Nothing is impossible.
So how did you build thisculture that, did you have a
vision of it or is it somethingyou co-construct?
Give us your recipe of success.
Erica Nemser (32:21):
Sure.
I, I am happy to share thoughts.
Um, I firmly believe success issomewhere you visit, not
somewhere you live.
Right.
And so we also have, part of ourculture is recognizing and, and
celebrating failure because it'spart of the journey.
And if you think you're gonna besuccessful every minute, you're
gonna be disappointed.
(32:41):
Um, but it is taking things likethat, like success and really
breaking it down.
And saying, well, what attributeis really important to us?
And we wrote them down, what arethe attributes that are
important to us culturally?
Ownership, creativity.
Right.
And we made a list of thoseattributes and we said, well,
(33:03):
how are, which ones do we havenow?
Because I came to Ardent and ithad a really good culture
around, you know, creativity,professionalism, innovation, um,
scientific rigor isn't, and alot of those in collaboration
we're an incrediblycollaborative group, um, with
not a lot of politics.
And so.
We basically said we're gonna doa from these, which are great
(33:26):
building blocks to that plus,right?
Here's the culture we wannabuild and what are we gonna have
to do to get there as aleadership team, as individuals
in our recruiting, in ourmessaging.
In our day-to-day activities andrecognize that it's a process,
it's a years long process.
Um, and we've tried to reflectthat in everything we do in my
(33:48):
all hands meetings, in the way Iwork with teams, in the
opportunities that I give, um,leaders in the way that our
leaders work with the folks ontheir team.
Um, and, and it's really a joyto see people succeeding and
leading.
Right.
Our leadership team is made upof people in their twenties,
(34:09):
thirties, forties, fifties, andsixties.
Right.
And we work really welltogether.
And so, and they embody allthose characteristics.
So it's, it's great, but it's aprocess and it has to be
deliberate and embedded.
I would say, if there's twopieces of success, it's not,
we're gonna do all this work andthen culture's gonna be, its
other little category.
(34:29):
It's how is the culture embeddedin every meeting.
Right, and the way that we, waythat we work.
Ilham Kadri (34:35):
Yeah.
And it takes time and each of usright, to contribute to that
culture.
I'm sure our science school, uh,and, uh, you know, from so
times, uh, and even after thedemerger.
We, we exactly did the processyou, you mentioned, to create
that common, common purpose.
Um, and I know you are purposeled, you know, uh, uh, a leader
(34:57):
and a transformer.
So I can continue thisconversation for longer.
But one last question, Erica.
I know that you, your workprobably takes a lot of your
time.
Um, as you are passionate and,uh, you know, really getting
into something bigger, but whatdo you do?
What do you enjoy doing when youare not at the office?
Erica Nemser (35:18):
When I am not at the office, um, one of my
hobbies that I really enjoy is Iam a track driver and an
instructor and coach for trackdriving.
And so I find that, um, it's,it's thrilling and enjoyable and
wonderful and there are a ton ofparallels to obviously the work
(35:38):
world.
So it's.
Like what?
Um, so the same thing in problemsolving, right?
If you wanna drive fast at thetrek, you know, when people
start out, they think of it as,okay, I just have to get around
the corners.
And then I can, um, sort of putmy foot to the floor and go fast
on the straight.
And that definitely works.
But if you wanna be really fast,you need to get around the
(36:00):
corners fast.
And that's a, that's a problemsolving challenge.
You are limited by your owncapabilities as a driver.
And there's three things, thecapabilities as a driver and the
mechanics of your car.
And in modern cars, the um.
The computer in the car, but youcan use those as tools and it's
the same thing.
(36:20):
Um, when I was starting to driveand I would be following a car
in and I'd be like, I can't keepup with that car.
I'm, I, but I am not gonna losethat car in the corner.
And, and I could sit there andbemoan, but my car is heavier
and my power to weight ratio andblah, blah, blah.
But I, if you come at that andsay, well, what do I have?
Well, I got four wheel drive andif I can just put my car into a
(36:43):
four wheel slide, I'm gonna takethat.
And you solve the problem thatyou have in front of you using
the resources that you have, andit's the same.
And um, and it's a lot likework.
Another one, which is driving onthe track is you've got two
brains.
You've got the brain that'ssaying, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no.
Slow down.
And you've got the brain thatknows physics.
(37:05):
That says, oh no, we, we haveplenty of grip, we have plenty
of downforce and we're gonnamake it, and you've gotta manage
those.
And it's the same at, it's thesame at at work.
Ilham Kadri (37:16):
Amazing.
Amazing.
You're so special.
Uh, the only per truck driver.
I welcome to the show.
There may be, there may be more.
Go Co coming in.
Well, thank you so much for thisamazing conversation, Erica.
Uh, you're such a, a role modelfor, for all of us as we seek to
make our businesses.
(37:37):
Sustainable and profitable.
Um, uh, and and powered byculture.
And people.
And people.
And people, right?
And the mindsets you taught usabout disruption.
About being obsessed by thesolutions, uh, and love the
solutions, not yourtechnologies.
I loved it.
I will, I will steal it fromyou.
Erica Nemser (37:56):
It is.
Ilham Kadri (37:56):
and no.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I steal from the best and, andleadership, or you've inspired
us.
You inspired me and I'm sureeveryone who is listening.
Thank you very much, Erica.
Erica Nemser (38:07):
Thank you.
You are an inspiration andeverything you're doing with
Science Co is an inspiration.
I can absolutely give thatcompliment right back to you and
thank you so much for having me.
Ilham Kadri (38:17):
Thank you my dear.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Erica Nemser (38:20):
Bye-bye.
Ilham Kadri (38:23):
Well today I was thrilled to welcome Erica and
emer to the show.
Uh, obviously we heard abouttechnologies addressing climate
change like carbon capture, butmore than that we heard about,
um, the culture of her company,how she's, you know, focusing
her team to focus in order todeliver more the power of
(38:46):
partnership to de-risk and gofaster.
'cause we cannot do it alone.
We heard, uh, her determination,her vision, her perseverance to
actually deliver.
A, a solution to a problem.
And actually she stayed fully inlove with the solution.
Don't fall in love with theproblem, uh, with the
(39:07):
technology, fall in love withthe, with the solution, and then
turn her company into profitablecompany.
Uh, and I loved what she saidabout success is something you
visit, you do not live in.
So, um, and, and, and that's DNAof the startup, which is
becoming a leader.
Carbon capturing the world.
(39:29):
It just an amazing showcasethat, you know, with the right
culture, with the right mantraand, and set of attributes,
ownership, creativity,collaboration, you, you can make
things happen And, you know, um,an amazing brain.
An amazing heart, very special.
(39:50):
And indeed the only first.
The only and the first truckdrivers are welcomed into the
show.
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