For some inspiring summer listening we are re-sharing some of our favorite episodes on the power of science and chemistry. This is a special musical episode with Nuno Maulide, a brilliant chemist AND award winning pianist. Enjoy this discussion about the link between music and science, and his beautiful performance of Bach, Mozart, Chopin and more. And stay tuned for our next season featuring our customers and partners starting in September!
**This episode was first released in January 2024.
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Did you know that there’s a strong connection between music and science? Ilham speaks with award winning chemist and pianist Nuno Maulide about the science behind the classical music of the greatest composers. He talks about the musical talent of brilliant scientists such as Albert Einstein and Max Planck, what scientists and business leaders can learn from music, and beautifully plays pieces by Bach, Mozart, Schubert, Chopin, Rachmaninoff and Debussy. Listen and be inspired!
Nuno Maulide is a professor and head of the Institute for Organic Chemistry at the University of Vienna. Nuno studied piano and chemistry in his hometown in Lisbon and then went on to earn his PhD at the University of Louvain in Belgium. He has studied at universities in Louvain-la-Neuve, Paris and at Stanford University, and started his independent work as a Group leader at Germany's Max Planck Institute for Carbon Research. He has received numerous prestigious awards in both chemistry and music throughout his career.
For additional details about the podcast, show notes, and access to resources mentioned during the show, please visit https://www.syensqo.com/en/podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Ilham Kadri (00:02):
Hello everyone, for some inspiring summer listening.
We are re-sharing some of ourfavorite episodes on the power
of Science and Chemistry.
This is a special musicalepisode with Nun Normal Lead, a
brilliant chemist, andaward-winning pianist.
I hope you enjoy this discussionabout the link between music and
(00:27):
science and his beautifulperformance of back Mosa,
choppa, and more.
Stay tuned for our next seasonfeaturing our customers and
partners starting in September.
today, I'm so thrilled to berecording this podcast here in
Brussels with Nuno Molid.
(00:50):
Nuno is what we would call aprofessor and head of the
Institute for Organic Chemistryat the University of Vienna.
And...
He is an award winning pianist.
Nuno studied piano and chemistryin his hometown in Lisbon.
(01:13):
And then he went on to earn hisPhD at the University of
Louvain, here in Belgium.
He has studied at universitiesin Louvain la Neuve, in Paris,
if I remember well it wasPolytechnique.
Stanford University for hispostdoc and started his
independent work as a groupleader at Germany's Max Planck
(01:36):
Institute for Carbon Research.
And it's no surprise that he hasreceived numerous prestigious
awards in both chemistry Andmusic throughout his career.
I can't wait to hear what he hasto say about the fundamental
connections between science,chemistry, and music.
(02:01):
Nuno, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Nuno Maulide (02:05):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Ilham Kadri (02:06):
I'm so delighted.
I'd like to begin by saying howappropriate it is that we are
recording this podcast here atthe Maison Ernest Solvay.
which in fact was the home ofour founder.
And as you may know, uh, Nuno,and I think we have the picture
of Ernest just behind you.
Ernest invited the greatest.
scientific minds of his time,including Albert Einstein, uh,
(02:29):
Marie Curie, one of my rolemodels to his physics and
chemistry conferences here inBrussels.
One picture over there.
It's, it started in 1911, right?
The first, uh, you know,conference called the Conference
of the Brilliant Minds.
And the second one just next toit, in 1927, is the most
intelligent picture in thehistory of humanity.
Nuno Maulide (02:49):
So many Nobel laureates.
Ilham Kadri (02:51):
Absolutely.
So many Nobel laureates.
Nuno Maulide (02:54):
In a single photo.
Ilham Kadri (02:55):
Yeah.
Including one to come as part ofthis gathering.
And it looks like they inventedquantum physics and so many
other sciences.
But of course, Einstein was alsoan accomplished violinist.
And the story is that he broughthis violin.
Which he named Lina with himeverywhere he went and often
performed in people's houses.
(03:15):
So he might have been here.
Exactly, Nuno.
With the violin.
Exactly, with the violin.
Uh, and probably he brought itin Belgium, he brought it in
Brussels, he brought it in thishouse, in this very room because
we know he, he dined in thisroom.
But he was not the only musicianwho came to the conferences.
I learned that Max Planck wasalso an accomplished pianist,
(03:36):
and we know he and Einsteinoften played together.
And by the way, we are proudthat at the 1911 Sorbet
Conference, the very firstdiscussion by international
scientists on Planck's quantumtheory was held.
And of course, Mozart and Bachwere favorite composers of both
Einstein and Planck.
And many say that's becausethese composers have a very
(03:57):
clear and solid form to theirmusic that has parallels with
what Einstein wanted to achievein his theories, for instance.
So, I've heard, Nuno, you talk abit before about how Bach could
be considered the hiddenscientist.
Can you explain to our audiencewhat you mean by that?
And why you think thesebrilliant scientists would have
(04:20):
loved his music so much?
Nuno Maulide (04:23):
So, Bach, of course, is my favorite composer.
I think he's a giant, the giant,in the history of music.
And I find him to be a hiddenscientist because his music
is...
It's incredibly structured whenyou look over under the surface,
but then when you listen to thefinal product, it's just very
touching and very emotional.
(04:44):
And it's beautiful to noticehow, how the structure is built
because he sometimes builds hismusic in layers.
For example, one of my favoritepieces, uh, Jesus bleibet meine
Freude.
is a construction, a beautifulstructural construction made in
layers.
The first layer was somethingthat he needed to use because he
had to compose all the religiousmusic for the religious service
(05:06):
in Leipzig.
So you have to imagine, everySunday, Bach had to write
between one and two hours ofmusic, new music, to be
performed during the religiousservice.
And so some of those pieces hehad to write so that people a
normal commoner that would go tochurch, could also stand up and
sing.
And so he took those melodiesthat were already popular,
(05:26):
because of course every versionof the Bible had some melodies.
And one of those melodies, Jesusbleibet meine Freude, Jesus, joy
of man's desiring, is like
Music (05:35):
this.
We have to
Nuno Maulide (05:49):
put ourselves in this mindset, 1700 something,
pretty much every second personin Germany could sing this by
heart.
Jesus bleibet meine Freude.
And so he thought, I have to usethis so that people can stand up
and think, and he wouldharmonize it,
Music (06:07):
right?
Quite beautiful.
Nuno Maulide (06:24):
Would have been enough for most composers to
say, okay, done, check mark,next, next piece.
Ilham Kadri (06:27):
I have a second layer, it's enough.
Nuno Maulide (06:29):
But he wanted to put a third layer to avoid that
it sounds a little bit, uh, slowand dull and, uh.
And the second layer hecomposed.
Was, um, what we now know.
Music (06:56):
It's beautiful
Nuno Maulide (06:56):
to think that this was just composed as a feeling
for a very big melody.
And now it's the one that wehave on our mobile phones.
Absolutely.
That's what we know.
That's what everybody knows,right?
And the other one that everybodyknew, now it's almost unknown.
And the two of them matchbeautifully.
(10:15):
I find this not only highlightsto us how Bach composed and this
is a beautiful piece and you canlisten to the piece and you can
be impressed and your heart willfeel something and you have an
emotion and then you analyze itand you see this almost
mathematical preparation of howthings turn.
And I think that's for sure whatfascinated scientists like
Einstein to see how somethingcan be aesthetically pleasing
(10:39):
and still mathematically.
and geometrically designed to
Ilham Kadri (10:43):
perfection.
So this is where music andscience, get together.
And that's fantastic.
And thank you.
It talks to our soul, uh, it'sextremely touching our hearts
while the minds and theingenuity is there.
So I'm curious to hear moreabout your own journey, you
know, uh, how, you know, you gotto music and science.
(11:04):
I think I know.
a bit of it, but our audiencewill be interested, um, because
I know that music has been partof your life since you were very
young and chemistry came a bitlater, if I remember well, but
first, can you tell us about howyou were introduced to music and
what's made you fall in lovewith that?
Nuno Maulide (11:21):
So I had the fortune, the good fortune of
being in primary school in oneof the few schools in Lisbon
where someone in the governmentdecided to implement a pilot
program.
Wow.
Where they would take, uh,teachers from a music school and
detach them for two or threehours a week to teach us, kids
(11:42):
in the primary school,
Ilham Kadri (11:43):
so now tell us how does someone who has devoted his
entire early life to music cometo find chemistry?
Was it another love of yours orwas it just by default?
What made you switch your focus?
At the beginning.
It had been
Nuno Maulide (11:57):
my target.
Even though I knew I wanted tostudy music, I still wanted to
at least get admitted touniversity into something
normal.
And when I failed the twomedicines, I was then really
weak because it takes a weekuntil it actually gets published
in a place where you can go andsee your name and see which
degree you entered.
I was one week wondering.
What did I put in place numberthree?
Because I was not even surewhether it had been chemistry,
(12:19):
or mathematics, or computerscience.
For the same price I could todaybe a computer scientist, maybe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Successful or unsuccessful.
And so we had to go, I said manytimes to my father, I think it's
mathematics, I'm not sure.
We had to go to this place wherethe things are published, and
then see Numomi the chemistry.
Okay, it was chemistry that youput in third place.
And then I went to theuniversity, and I said, I want
to register for chemistry, and Iwant to immediately cancel my
(12:41):
registration, because what I'mgoing to do...
is I'm going to study music.
Okay.
So I went into the universityfor music, the concert pianist's
degree.
Yeah.
I did one year of that, Irealized, oh my god, this is
nothing for me.
Really?
And why is that?
Because there is one thing abouthaving a hobby, Yeah.
which you love, Yeah.
and which you do an hour a day.
(13:02):
Yeah.
You wish you could do two hoursor three hours, Yeah.
but you never can because it'sjust a hobby.
Absolutely.
And then suddenly there isnothing else and just the hobby.
Eight
Ilham Kadri (13:10):
hours or ten hours, twelve hours
Nuno Maulide (13:13):
a day, right?
And suddenly the pleasure andthe passion.
Americans always say be carefulwhat you wish for, right?
I think this was a good lessonfor me, be careful what you wish
for.
I'm happy I did it becauseotherwise I might have lived all
my life in regret.
That's
Ilham Kadri (13:25):
it, so you tried
Nuno Maulide (13:26):
it.
I tried it, I jumped into it, Iknew it was not what I wanted.
I was bored to tears when I hadto spend ten hours in front of a
piano.
I was like, no, I cannot do thisfor 40 years or 50 years.
In a row.
So I decided, okay, I will justbe a depressed, normal person.
I will just go to university,take whatever degree, get
whatever job from nine to five.
(13:48):
And that will be my life.
Beautiful
Ilham Kadri (13:50):
story.
We'll come back later tochemistry for me as well.
Chemistry came very late.
So I'd like to go back Nuno toEinstein and Planck for a minute
and now turn to their deep lovefor Mozart's, right?
What are the parallels you seewith science and Mozart's works?
that would have attracted thesescientists.
Nuno Maulide (14:09):
I find that a very interesting, uh, thing to
consider because Mozart, for histime, was really ahead.
of what we imagine people in the70s,
Ilham Kadri (14:19):
80s.
He was a genius, right?
He was a
Nuno Maulide (14:22):
genius, but he also had a life that is very
much similar to the life of, Idon't know, Beyoncé or Justin
Bieber today.
Because he traveled extensively,especially as a young prodigy
child.
His father, of course, took himand paraded him in every single
Ilham Kadri (14:37):
country.
That's true, including inVienna, right?
Including in Vienna.
Where you live now.
Exactly.
Nuno Maulide (14:41):
That was the shortest trip, right?
From Salzburg to he went toParis, he went to London, he
went to Berlin, he went toeverywhere.
And he also spoke many, manylanguages fluently.
He spoke Italian, he spokeFrench, he spoke English, apart
from his native German.
And so I think, and you have tosay that nowadays that's
probably not so impressive, butback then every travel was
(15:03):
fraught with a lot of danger.
Yeah.
If you think about it, traveling200 kilometers, first of all
took days, second of all wasextremely dangerous because you
could be attacked and ambushedon the way.
They were, the Mozarts were veryoften sick.
And people would have thendeadly diseases just because you
are somewhere else, you contracta virus and then you die.
And for example, JohannSebastian Bach returned once
(15:24):
from a trip to find out that hiswife had died.
So, with all this danger, Ithink Mozart's life is really a
miracle.
With all these dangers oftraveling all over Europe, going
even across to the ponds, UK,speaking all these languages,
this was really a unique, uh,personality.
And I think it made him a verycosmopolitan.
(15:45):
And you can, you can see thisin, in almost all of his music,
which very much sounds like,like sonatas, like, like operas.
Yeah.
It's, you, you have very calm
Music (15:56):
moments.
And then suddenly someoneshouts.
And then someone runs.
And then you have something verysuspicious.
And then you have very romanticmoments.
(16:23):
And then someone very nervous.
So it's,
Nuno Maulide (16:27):
every single piece of Mozart has these constant
changes in dramatic nature, indramatic color, and also
constant changes in mood, whichI think reflect his absorption.
Of what was the English style ofmusic?
What was the German style ofmusic?
What was the Italian style ofmusic?
And I think he incorporates allthat.
Ilham Kadri (16:45):
Interesting.
So he was a global citizen?
He was a global citizen
Nuno Maulide (16:48):
in the 18th century.
Amazing.
Wow.
Wow.
And I guess
Ilham Kadri (16:51):
I'm, because it's like describing our emotions,
huh?
We can, as human being, we cango through from one second to
Nuno Maulide (16:56):
the other.
We can jump, we can do all ofthis in an hour.
Ilham Kadri (16:59):
So fabulous.
So after all of this, I thinkthere is no better person than
you to ask about the strongconnection between science and
music and art.
How do you see this connectionin your own life as both a
scientist and musician?
I know you told us, you know,yeah, it started with music.
I tried it one year.
I knew that's a hobby, not a,you know, a business for me or
(17:20):
day to day job.
And then you move to chemistryalmost by serendipity.
But, but how you can, today youare making concerts, you know,
you
Nuno Maulide (17:30):
are.
And you have to think which areaof chemistry did I choose?
Yeah, exactly.
To be entirely or chemistry.
I am biased of course, but to beentirely honest, is there any
area of chemistry which is moreaesthetic and more, uh, artistic
in its presentation of its toolsYeah.
Than organic chemistry.
(17:51):
Right.
We.
Do not communicate with much interms of words, we write and we
draw structures.
The way each person drawsstructure is very personal.
Absolutely.
You can almost, I mean, I couldrecognize each one of my PhD
students if I just see how theywrite.
Wow.
Because everybody writes anddraws structure.
So it's very personal.
It's very individualistic.
(18:11):
At the same time.
It is such a artistic dimensionfor some very complicated
molecules that we try to make inour group.
Make total synthesis of somecomplex natural products.
For some of those, the way youdraw it might make the molecule
appear more complex or lesscomplex.
And whenever molecules have manyrings fused to each other, There
are really, you can see it fromone perspective, from another
(18:34):
perspective, from the top, fromthe bottom.
We, I usually recommend to mystudents, draw your molecules
from as many differentperspectives as possible,
because sometimes you draw itand suddenly it becomes obvious
to you how you should make it inthe lab.
Whereas if you drew it the otherway, it's like, this is very
challenging, very difficult.
So we incorporate a lot ofartistic and aesthetic elements
(18:54):
in what we do.
in the lab, in what I do in, in,in my, in my activity.
And I think whenever I play thepiano at home, not only does it
help me relax, because you knowit better than me.
Our lives can be a little bitstressful, especially when you
are in management positions.
But it also helps me sometimesinterpret and view things in a
(19:15):
different way.
Sometimes I'm thinking of acomplicated molecule, and then
there is a music piece that justfits what that molecule
represents to me, and sometimesvice versa.
Sometimes I'm playing a piece.
And I have a sudden thought of,hmm, what would happen if we
mixed this with this?
It has happened.
So inspiration
Ilham Kadri (19:33):
and insights comes both sides.
Both sides.
Wow.
I think you're going to attractmore organic chemistry students
to this podcast.
Now as an expert in organicchemistry You are probably very
in tune with science in thenatural world And this is very
close to our hearts as we'vebeen launching recently the
renewable material and biotechplatform We're making bio
shampoo using Guar plants comingfrom Rajasthan, etc.
(19:57):
But i've also heard you talkbefore about the strong
connection.
Some composers have with natureand the ways in which nature or
science emulates nature.
Can you elaborate on that?
Nuno Maulide (20:09):
Yes, so I think certain composers, such as, for
example, Schubert, really, um,Schubert, as we know, lived in
Vienna, very close to where myfaculty is located, where my
office is at the Faculty ofChemistry at the Währinger
Straße.
And Schubert really was veryfond of taking long walks
through the woods.
And he wrote a lot of pieces.
(20:29):
which he called impromptus, orimpromptu, improvisations, which
I feel, and people know throughhistory, through studies, that
were connected to these longwalks he would take in the
Viennese woods.
And one of those pieces heactually wrote in a very strange
key signature, which is actuallyG flat.
(20:50):
And G flat major, I would say,is well known among all of us
pianists as being a pain in theneck.
Because it's entirely on theblack keys.
It's very tricky.
And when you, when you thinkabout this, you will understand
why the publisher of Schubert,when this piece was ready to be
published, immediately went toSchubert and told Schubert, I'm
going to publish this in Gmajor.
(21:12):
Because then it will be mostlyon the wide keys.
And we want to sell this.
We don't want this to be seen bythe people and say, I'm not
going to buy it because there'sno way I can play it, it's all
in the black keys.
Wow.
And Schubert told him, no, Iwrote it in G flat major because
I want it in G flat major.
And if you hear the two, Yeah.
You don't need to have a degreein music.
(21:34):
Listen to the beginning in
Music (21:35):
G major.
Nuno Maulide (21:52):
I'm not going to change anything else.
There is no trick here.
There is no, no magic.
I'm not, I'm not DavidCopperfield.
I'm just going to play exactlythe same thing in G flat major.
Listen to the difference.
Music (22:21):
You don't need a
Nuno Maulide (22:21):
degree to see that this is naturally very luminous.
It's very happy.
Music (22:27):
And
Nuno Maulide (22:30):
just sounds.
Mistic.
Yeah.
Introvert.
Yeah.
And this is why Schubert wroteit in this key, because he told
his editor, I'm sorry, youcannot publish this in G Major.
He did anyway.
Yeah.
But you cannot publish this in GMajor because it won't sound the
same.
Yeah.
And I want a very misticatmosphere when he wants shining
lights.
He
Music (22:48):
does two
Nuno Maulide (23:02):
different color.
Yeah.
And so I find that this piece,for example, is a beautiful
example of how science.
And nature come together becauseof course, nowadays we can study
and there was a published paper,a paper published in science
which demonstrates that thevibration of each different note
(23:22):
in the piano elicits a differentpattern.
Yeah.
No matter with which measuringobject you do it.
You could even just have a pieceof metal round.
Put some sand on it.
And as you play different notes,the vibration will lead the
grains of sand to spontaneouslyorganize in completely different
patterns, depending on whetheryou play this, or this, or this,
(23:44):
or this.
And that is science telling us,yeah, what you hear as a
difference has a scientificbasis.
Absolutely.
Would you like me to play thewhole piece for you?
Yeah,
Music (23:53):
please.
Then let's go.
(28:59):
Thank
Ilham Kadri (28:59):
you very much.
So you talked about the woodsand how walking through the
woods can be inspiring.
What's about the elements?
I think one of my favoritechemical is water.
I didn't.
Yeah, I missed potable waterwhen I was a kid in Morocco.
So I raised, you know, I grew upin Morocco.
You know, just, uh, with thescarcity of water at home.
So I always wanted to work inthe water industry, which I did
(29:21):
in water purification.
So water has been always, youknow, by the ways, the most
scarce natural resource onearth.
We talk a lot about climate,obviously.
There is a sense of urgency, butthere is a sense potable
Nuno Maulide (29:35):
water.
Some of the biggest geopoliticalconflicts in the future will
probably be about...
Come from...
Ilham Kadri (29:40):
The water, right?
So what's about water in music?
Nuno Maulide (29:44):
Actually, that inspires me to think about
another example, which is aChopin etude.
And Chopin, we all know, themaster of
Music (29:52):
melodies, right?
Yeah.
All his
Nuno Maulide (30:05):
pieces have a very clear defined melody, and a very
clear defining accompanyingpart.
And then this etude he wrote,and the melody is just...
It's
Music (30:15):
boring.
It's just full of repeatednotes.
Look at this.
Two, three, four, five, six,seven.
Terrible melody.
And
Nuno Maulide (30:26):
the accompanying
Music (30:27):
part, which we
Nuno Maulide (30:32):
just heard was something beautiful on that note
tune, like full
Music (30:36):
of emotion.
Here it's just.
And then you put
Nuno Maulide (30:43):
everything together, with a little bit of
these pedals here, down here,which help to muddle things a
little bit, and it suddenlysounds as if water was coming
out of the piano.
So, I would like to inspire yourinner child, that had no potable
water, to listen to this andimagine that this piano suddenly
becomes a fountain from whichwater springs.
Let's try.
(31:03):
Let's try.
And all of you at home, try thesame thing.
Ilham Kadri (33:05):
Thank you, Nuno.
You have given me back all theclean water I missed when I was
a girl.
So, thank you.
This is beautiful.
Indeed, I could, you know, beimmersed in water.
In the beauty of water.
So, Chopin, uh, you know, mightbe one of my favorite composers.
Now, as you know, this podcastis about the power of the end, A
(33:26):
and D.
And this episode perfectlybrings, uh, art and science
together.
And I always say that.
Businesses can learn so muchfrom art.
And before you, we got an artistin painting, in, you know, we
got even a cook, a chef cook, aPhD in cooking, which is also an
(33:47):
art.
And when you were playing justnow, I was wondering what do you
think scientists learn frommusic and what can musicians
learn from science?
And on a broader level, what canbusinesses in general learn from
art and music?
Nuno Maulide (34:00):
That is a very interesting question.
So I think...
Scientists and artists both needinnovation and creativity.
This is clear, right?
You need to go where nobody hasgone before.
And that's also what artists doall the time.
But I feel there is a veryinteresting idea for businesses
to learn from art and music.
Because, for example, music andart is permanently focused on
(34:21):
eliciting emotion.
Yeah, I think businesses couldlearn.
I think the current world is theworld of moments, right?
People live in the moment andthen forget and I think what
businesses probably would bevery well advised is to create
emotional connections to thecustomer in the products that
they make in the experiencesthat they elicit So that there
is a, because I think that alsois in the business's advantage
(34:45):
to do so.
I feel so that every artist thatcomposes something has probably
the desire of somehow becomingimmortal, right?
All these people wrote thesepieces in the hope that They
will die and the music willstay.
Will last.
I speak of Bach in the present,I speak of Chopin and Schubert
in the present tense, becausethey died but the music is still
(35:07):
there with us.
And that means that they createdsomething very individual and
very theirs, very their own.
And I think also in businesses,these messages are messages that
very nicely resonate with artand with music.
Because, yeah, once you empowerpeople in a company, in a
(35:29):
business to be unique, tocelebrate their diversity, to
celebrate what makes usdifferent from one another, you
are also somehow cultivating alittle bit of an artistic vein.
Ilham Kadri (35:39):
I love it this way.
And I think you do this when Ialways compare it to a
cathedral, right?
Each of us as a leader, we bringa little stone to the edifice,
right?
With the hope that there is alegacy and there is
universality.
And what you are saying is thatthose artists and those
brilliant musicians, and theywere all.
(36:00):
Universal piece of music, yeteach musician, like you as
pianist, you bring your own soulto it, your own stamp,
Nuno Maulide (36:08):
right?
And this is beautiful, thebeautiful aspect of classical
music is that every interpreterrecreates.
What was written hundreds ofyears ago in his or her own way.
Ilham Kadri (36:20):
So Nuno, is there anything a scientist can grab
from a piece of music?
Nuno Maulide (36:27):
Hmm, now that you mention that, I do, I do like to
think that some pieces of musichave very clear patterns.
Yeah.
And I think the ability to dopattern recognition is probably
what most characterizes.
That's what we like to do.
That's what we like to do.
We hope we aren't going to betaken over by artificial
intelligence and algorithms indoing so.
But there is a piece byRachmaninoff, a prelude in G
(36:49):
sharp major, in which the righthand keeps playing this pattern,
and this pattern appears overand over and over, and gets
superposed or underposed by abeautiful, very, very long...
And I feel there is a lot ofpattern recognition that we
(37:10):
scientists could take from thisprelude.
Let me play it for you, andlet's see how many patterns you
can recognize.
Ilham Kadri (39:58):
So how many patterns, I stopped counting
after four,
Music (40:01):
five, whatever.
How many?
There were quite a few.
Yeah.
A lot.
Ilham Kadri (40:06):
Because I, I kept looking at your right hand, you
know, where it goes and theleft, I'm not a musician, it's
changing all the
Music (40:14):
time.
Nuno Maulide (40:14):
And then the left, this beautiful melody that was
changing all the time, it wasalmost like
Ilham Kadri (40:18):
floating.
It's beautiful.
Thank you, Nuno.
Thank you.
So that's about, you know, themusic cheer emotional power,
which is actually often seen asthe opposite of the rational and
the scientific.
Is that true, Nuno?
Is that in opposition, beingemotional and rational?
Music (40:36):
Um,
Nuno Maulide (40:37):
so I would say there is a lot of emotionality.
In
Music (40:40):
science
Nuno Maulide (40:41):
as well.
Yes, we have all seen many, manyexamples.
I feel, after all, science ismade by humans.
Absolutely.
And we are not robots, we arenot machines.
We, we do cultivate this, thissheer fountain of emotions,
which we are.
And nowhere does that appear tome more than in a piece by
(41:04):
Debussy, Claire de Lune.
Ah.
Which is a pure, what theAmericans would call a
tearjerker, because it's just,it's a piece designed to make
all of us cry.
Yeah.
And to take us and transport usin a trip where you see a
painting that is being paintedwith broad strokes.
Yeah.
And the broad strokes are these,these notes that just fly and
(41:25):
float, right?
Yeah.
This just stays there.
Even though I lifted my handsfrom the piano, the sound is
still going and it's stillchanging.
And, and the notes are goinginto your homes, into your
hearts.
And these are the broad strokesthat he uses to paint a pink, a
painting of.
A dark night with a beautifulmoon, which is probably as
(41:45):
powerful as the lights we havehere on studio because it
illuminates everything.
Music (43:16):
No, no,
Ilham Kadri (46:31):
I can't think of a more beautiful note to finish
this brilliant and musicaldiscussion.
Although I don't want it to end,right?
I can stay here and I'm going tofly and just get into one of
your concerts.
Thank you so much.
No, no, you have, um, frankly,you are gifted.
You have an immense talent.
You are not only a brilliantmusician, but an accomplished
(46:53):
science and the perfect exampleof the power of the end.
And thank you so much for thismoving performance.
I think it's going to inspireour employees around the world,
their families, but also ourpodcasters to showcase again
that the end is the future.
And it's OK to be a musician anda scientist and the bonds, the
(47:14):
human bonds.
Can be an organic chemistry, butcan also come from beautiful
music.
Thank you for your insights, forsharing your talents with us.
Um, and yeah, again, this homeis shining today.
I think the soul of our founderand his wife Adele are probably
somewhere there saying you did agood job in bringing this
(47:35):
talented musician in our house.
Thank you, Nuno.
Nuno Maulide (47:38):
Thank you very much.
Hello everyone, for some inspiring summer listening.
We are re-sharing some of ourfavorite episodes on the power
of Science and Chemistry.
This is a special musicalepisode with Nun Normal Lead, a
brilliant chemist, andaward-winning pianist.
I hope you enjoy this discussionabout the link between music and
(00:27):
science and his beautifulperformance of back Mosa,
choppa, and more.
Stay tuned for our next seasonfeaturing our customers and
partners starting in September.
today, I'm so thrilled to berecording this podcast here in
Brussels with Nuno Molid.
(00:50):
Nuno is what we would call aprofessor and head of the
Institute for Organic Chemistryat the University of Vienna.
And...
He is an award winning pianist.
Nuno studied piano and chemistryin his hometown in Lisbon.
(01:13):
And then he went on to earn hisPhD at the University of
Louvain, here in Belgium.
He has studied at universitiesin Louvain la Neuve, in Paris,
if I remember well it wasPolytechnique.
Stanford University for hispostdoc and started his
independent work as a groupleader at Germany's Max Planck
(01:36):
Institute for Carbon Research.
And it's no surprise that he hasreceived numerous prestigious
awards in both chemistry Andmusic throughout his career.
I can't wait to hear what he hasto say about the fundamental
connections between science,chemistry, and music.
(02:01):
Nuno, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Nuno Maulide (02:05):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Ilham Kadri (02:06):
I'm so delighted.
I'd like to begin by saying howappropriate it is that we are
recording this podcast here atthe Maison Ernest Solvay.
which in fact was the home ofour founder.
And as you may know, uh, Nuno,and I think we have the picture
of Ernest just behind you.
Ernest invited the greatest.
scientific minds of his time,including Albert Einstein, uh,
(02:29):
Marie Curie, one of my rolemodels to his physics and
chemistry conferences here inBrussels.
One picture over there.
It's, it started in 1911, right?
The first, uh, you know,conference called the Conference
of the Brilliant Minds.
And the second one just next toit, in 1927, is the most
intelligent picture in thehistory of humanity.
Nuno Maulide (02:49):
So many Nobel laureates.
Ilham Kadri (02:51):
Absolutely.
So many Nobel laureates.
Nuno Maulide (02:54):
In a single photo.
Ilham Kadri (02:55):
Yeah.
Including one to come as part ofthis gathering.
And it looks like they inventedquantum physics and so many
other sciences.
But of course, Einstein was alsoan accomplished violinist.
And the story is that he broughthis violin.
Which he named Lina with himeverywhere he went and often
performed in people's houses.
(03:15):
So he might have been here.
Exactly, Nuno.
With the violin.
Exactly, with the violin.
Uh, and probably he brought itin Belgium, he brought it in
Brussels, he brought it in thishouse, in this very room because
we know he, he dined in thisroom.
But he was not the only musicianwho came to the conferences.
I learned that Max Planck wasalso an accomplished pianist,
(03:36):
and we know he and Einsteinoften played together.
And by the way, we are proudthat at the 1911 Sorbet
Conference, the very firstdiscussion by international
scientists on Planck's quantumtheory was held.
And of course, Mozart and Bachwere favorite composers of both
Einstein and Planck.
And many say that's becausethese composers have a very
(03:57):
clear and solid form to theirmusic that has parallels with
what Einstein wanted to achievein his theories, for instance.
So, I've heard, Nuno, you talk abit before about how Bach could
be considered the hiddenscientist.
Can you explain to our audiencewhat you mean by that?
And why you think thesebrilliant scientists would have
(04:20):
loved his music so much?
Nuno Maulide (04:23):
So, Bach, of course, is my favorite composer.
I think he's a giant, the giant,in the history of music.
And I find him to be a hiddenscientist because his music
is...
It's incredibly structured whenyou look over under the surface,
but then when you listen to thefinal product, it's just very
touching and very emotional.
(04:44):
And it's beautiful to noticehow, how the structure is built
because he sometimes builds hismusic in layers.
For example, one of my favoritepieces, uh, Jesus bleibet meine
Freude.
is a construction, a beautifulstructural construction made in
layers.
The first layer was somethingthat he needed to use because he
had to compose all the religiousmusic for the religious service
(05:06):
in Leipzig.
So you have to imagine, everySunday, Bach had to write
between one and two hours ofmusic, new music, to be
performed during the religiousservice.
And so some of those pieces hehad to write so that people a
normal commoner that would go tochurch, could also stand up and
sing.
And so he took those melodiesthat were already popular,
(05:26):
because of course every versionof the Bible had some melodies.
And one of those melodies, Jesusbleibet meine Freude, Jesus, joy
of man's desiring, is like
Music (05:35):
this.
We have to
Nuno Maulide (05:49):
put ourselves in this mindset, 1700 something,
pretty much every second personin Germany could sing this by
heart.
Jesus bleibet meine Freude.
And so he thought, I have to usethis so that people can stand up
and think, and he wouldharmonize it,
Music (06:07):
right?
Quite beautiful.
Nuno Maulide (06:24):
Would have been enough for most composers to
say, okay, done, check mark,next, next piece.
Ilham Kadri (06:27):
I have a second layer, it's enough.
Nuno Maulide (06:29):
But he wanted to put a third layer to avoid that
it sounds a little bit, uh, slowand dull and, uh.
And the second layer hecomposed.
Was, um, what we now know.
Music (06:56):
It's beautiful
Nuno Maulide (06:56):
to think that this was just composed as a feeling
for a very big melody.
And now it's the one that wehave on our mobile phones.
Absolutely.
That's what we know.
That's what everybody knows,right?
And the other one that everybodyknew, now it's almost unknown.
And the two of them matchbeautifully.
(10:15):
I find this not only highlightsto us how Bach composed and this
is a beautiful piece and you canlisten to the piece and you can
be impressed and your heart willfeel something and you have an
emotion and then you analyze itand you see this almost
mathematical preparation of howthings turn.
And I think that's for sure whatfascinated scientists like
Einstein to see how somethingcan be aesthetically pleasing
(10:39):
and still mathematically.
and geometrically designed to
Ilham Kadri (10:43):
perfection.
So this is where music andscience, get together.
And that's fantastic.
And thank you.
It talks to our soul, uh, it'sextremely touching our hearts
while the minds and theingenuity is there.
So I'm curious to hear moreabout your own journey, you
know, uh, how, you know, you gotto music and science.
(11:04):
I think I know.
a bit of it, but our audiencewill be interested, um, because
I know that music has been partof your life since you were very
young and chemistry came a bitlater, if I remember well, but
first, can you tell us about howyou were introduced to music and
what's made you fall in lovewith that?
Nuno Maulide (11:21):
So I had the fortune, the good fortune of
being in primary school in oneof the few schools in Lisbon
where someone in the governmentdecided to implement a pilot
program.
Wow.
Where they would take, uh,teachers from a music school and
detach them for two or threehours a week to teach us, kids
(11:42):
in the primary school,
Ilham Kadri (11:43):
so now tell us how does someone who has devoted his
entire early life to music cometo find chemistry?
Was it another love of yours orwas it just by default?
What made you switch your focus?
At the beginning.
It had been
Nuno Maulide (11:57):
my target.
Even though I knew I wanted tostudy music, I still wanted to
at least get admitted touniversity into something
normal.
And when I failed the twomedicines, I was then really
weak because it takes a weekuntil it actually gets published
in a place where you can go andsee your name and see which
degree you entered.
I was one week wondering.
What did I put in place numberthree?
Because I was not even surewhether it had been chemistry,
(12:19):
or mathematics, or computerscience.
For the same price I could todaybe a computer scientist, maybe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Successful or unsuccessful.
And so we had to go, I said manytimes to my father, I think it's
mathematics, I'm not sure.
We had to go to this place wherethe things are published, and
then see Numomi the chemistry.
Okay, it was chemistry that youput in third place.
And then I went to theuniversity, and I said, I want
to register for chemistry, and Iwant to immediately cancel my
(12:41):
registration, because what I'mgoing to do...
is I'm going to study music.
Okay.
So I went into the universityfor music, the concert pianist's
degree.
Yeah.
I did one year of that, Irealized, oh my god, this is
nothing for me.
Really?
And why is that?
Because there is one thing abouthaving a hobby, Yeah.
which you love, Yeah.
and which you do an hour a day.
(13:02):
Yeah.
You wish you could do two hoursor three hours, Yeah.
but you never can because it'sjust a hobby.
Absolutely.
And then suddenly there isnothing else and just the hobby.
Eight
Ilham Kadri (13:10):
hours or ten hours, twelve hours
Nuno Maulide (13:13):
a day, right?
And suddenly the pleasure andthe passion.
Americans always say be carefulwhat you wish for, right?
I think this was a good lessonfor me, be careful what you wish
for.
I'm happy I did it becauseotherwise I might have lived all
my life in regret.
That's
Ilham Kadri (13:25):
it, so you tried
Nuno Maulide (13:26):
it.
I tried it, I jumped into it, Iknew it was not what I wanted.
I was bored to tears when I hadto spend ten hours in front of a
piano.
I was like, no, I cannot do thisfor 40 years or 50 years.
In a row.
So I decided, okay, I will justbe a depressed, normal person.
I will just go to university,take whatever degree, get
whatever job from nine to five.
(13:48):
And that will be my life.
Beautiful
Ilham Kadri (13:50):
story.
We'll come back later tochemistry for me as well.
Chemistry came very late.
So I'd like to go back Nuno toEinstein and Planck for a minute
and now turn to their deep lovefor Mozart's, right?
What are the parallels you seewith science and Mozart's works?
that would have attracted thesescientists.
Nuno Maulide (14:09):
I find that a very interesting, uh, thing to
consider because Mozart, for histime, was really ahead.
of what we imagine people in the70s,
Ilham Kadri (14:19):
80s.
He was a genius, right?
He was a
Nuno Maulide (14:22):
genius, but he also had a life that is very
much similar to the life of, Idon't know, Beyoncé or Justin
Bieber today.
Because he traveled extensively,especially as a young prodigy
child.
His father, of course, took himand paraded him in every single
Ilham Kadri (14:37):
country.
That's true, including inVienna, right?
Including in Vienna.
Where you live now.
Exactly.
Nuno Maulide (14:41):
That was the shortest trip, right?
From Salzburg to he went toParis, he went to London, he
went to Berlin, he went toeverywhere.
And he also spoke many, manylanguages fluently.
He spoke Italian, he spokeFrench, he spoke English, apart
from his native German.
And so I think, and you have tosay that nowadays that's
probably not so impressive, butback then every travel was
(15:03):
fraught with a lot of danger.
Yeah.
If you think about it, traveling200 kilometers, first of all
took days, second of all wasextremely dangerous because you
could be attacked and ambushedon the way.
They were, the Mozarts were veryoften sick.
And people would have thendeadly diseases just because you
are somewhere else, you contracta virus and then you die.
And for example, JohannSebastian Bach returned once
(15:24):
from a trip to find out that hiswife had died.
So, with all this danger, Ithink Mozart's life is really a
miracle.
With all these dangers oftraveling all over Europe, going
even across to the ponds, UK,speaking all these languages,
this was really a unique, uh,personality.
And I think it made him a verycosmopolitan.
(15:45):
And you can, you can see thisin, in almost all of his music,
which very much sounds like,like sonatas, like, like operas.
Yeah.
It's, you, you have very calm
Music (15:56):
moments.
And then suddenly someoneshouts.
And then someone runs.
And then you have something verysuspicious.
And then you have very romanticmoments.
(16:23):
And then someone very nervous.
So it's,
Nuno Maulide (16:27):
every single piece of Mozart has these constant
changes in dramatic nature, indramatic color, and also
constant changes in mood, whichI think reflect his absorption.
Of what was the English style ofmusic?
What was the German style ofmusic?
What was the Italian style ofmusic?
And I think he incorporates allthat.
Ilham Kadri (16:45):
Interesting.
So he was a global citizen?
He was a global citizen
Nuno Maulide (16:48):
in the 18th century.
Amazing.
Wow.
Wow.
And I guess
Ilham Kadri (16:51):
I'm, because it's like describing our emotions,
huh?
We can, as human being, we cango through from one second to
Nuno Maulide (16:56):
the other.
We can jump, we can do all ofthis in an hour.
Ilham Kadri (16:59):
So fabulous.
So after all of this, I thinkthere is no better person than
you to ask about the strongconnection between science and
music and art.
How do you see this connectionin your own life as both a
scientist and musician?
I know you told us, you know,yeah, it started with music.
I tried it one year.
I knew that's a hobby, not a,you know, a business for me or
(17:20):
day to day job.
And then you move to chemistryalmost by serendipity.
But, but how you can, today youare making concerts, you know,
you
Nuno Maulide (17:30):
are.
And you have to think which areaof chemistry did I choose?
Yeah, exactly.
To be entirely or chemistry.
I am biased of course, but to beentirely honest, is there any
area of chemistry which is moreaesthetic and more, uh, artistic
in its presentation of its toolsYeah.
Than organic chemistry.
(17:51):
Right.
We.
Do not communicate with much interms of words, we write and we
draw structures.
The way each person drawsstructure is very personal.
Absolutely.
You can almost, I mean, I couldrecognize each one of my PhD
students if I just see how theywrite.
Wow.
Because everybody writes anddraws structure.
So it's very personal.
It's very individualistic.
(18:11):
At the same time.
It is such a artistic dimensionfor some very complicated
molecules that we try to make inour group.
Make total synthesis of somecomplex natural products.
For some of those, the way youdraw it might make the molecule
appear more complex or lesscomplex.
And whenever molecules have manyrings fused to each other, There
are really, you can see it fromone perspective, from another
(18:34):
perspective, from the top, fromthe bottom.
We, I usually recommend to mystudents, draw your molecules
from as many differentperspectives as possible,
because sometimes you draw itand suddenly it becomes obvious
to you how you should make it inthe lab.
Whereas if you drew it the otherway, it's like, this is very
challenging, very difficult.
So we incorporate a lot ofartistic and aesthetic elements
(18:54):
in what we do.
in the lab, in what I do in, in,in my, in my activity.
And I think whenever I play thepiano at home, not only does it
help me relax, because you knowit better than me.
Our lives can be a little bitstressful, especially when you
are in management positions.
But it also helps me sometimesinterpret and view things in a
(19:15):
different way.
Sometimes I'm thinking of acomplicated molecule, and then
there is a music piece that justfits what that molecule
represents to me, and sometimesvice versa.
Sometimes I'm playing a piece.
And I have a sudden thought of,hmm, what would happen if we
mixed this with this?
It has happened.
So inspiration
Ilham Kadri (19:33):
and insights comes both sides.
Both sides.
Wow.
I think you're going to attractmore organic chemistry students
to this podcast.
Now as an expert in organicchemistry You are probably very
in tune with science in thenatural world And this is very
close to our hearts as we'vebeen launching recently the
renewable material and biotechplatform We're making bio
shampoo using Guar plants comingfrom Rajasthan, etc.
(19:57):
But i've also heard you talkbefore about the strong
connection.
Some composers have with natureand the ways in which nature or
science emulates nature.
Can you elaborate on that?
Nuno Maulide (20:09):
Yes, so I think certain composers, such as, for
example, Schubert, really, um,Schubert, as we know, lived in
Vienna, very close to where myfaculty is located, where my
office is at the Faculty ofChemistry at the Währinger
Straße.
And Schubert really was veryfond of taking long walks
through the woods.
And he wrote a lot of pieces.
(20:29):
which he called impromptus, orimpromptu, improvisations, which
I feel, and people know throughhistory, through studies, that
were connected to these longwalks he would take in the
Viennese woods.
And one of those pieces heactually wrote in a very strange
key signature, which is actuallyG flat.
(20:50):
And G flat major, I would say,is well known among all of us
pianists as being a pain in theneck.
Because it's entirely on theblack keys.
It's very tricky.
And when you, when you thinkabout this, you will understand
why the publisher of Schubert,when this piece was ready to be
published, immediately went toSchubert and told Schubert, I'm
going to publish this in Gmajor.
(21:12):
Because then it will be mostlyon the wide keys.
And we want to sell this.
We don't want this to be seen bythe people and say, I'm not
going to buy it because there'sno way I can play it, it's all
in the black keys.
Wow.
And Schubert told him, no, Iwrote it in G flat major because
I want it in G flat major.
And if you hear the two, Yeah.
You don't need to have a degreein music.
(21:34):
Listen to the beginning in
Music (21:35):
G major.
Nuno Maulide (21:52):
I'm not going to change anything else.
There is no trick here.
There is no, no magic.
I'm not, I'm not DavidCopperfield.
I'm just going to play exactlythe same thing in G flat major.
Listen to the difference.
Music (22:21):
You don't need a
Nuno Maulide (22:21):
degree to see that this is naturally very luminous.
It's very happy.
Music (22:27):
And
Nuno Maulide (22:30):
just sounds.
Mistic.
Yeah.
Introvert.
Yeah.
And this is why Schubert wroteit in this key, because he told
his editor, I'm sorry, youcannot publish this in G Major.
He did anyway.
Yeah.
But you cannot publish this in GMajor because it won't sound the
same.
Yeah.
And I want a very misticatmosphere when he wants shining
lights.
He
Music (22:48):
does two
Nuno Maulide (23:02):
different color.
Yeah.
And so I find that this piece,for example, is a beautiful
example of how science.
And nature come together becauseof course, nowadays we can study
and there was a published paper,a paper published in science
which demonstrates that thevibration of each different note
(23:22):
in the piano elicits a differentpattern.
Yeah.
No matter with which measuringobject you do it.
You could even just have a pieceof metal round.
Put some sand on it.
And as you play different notes,the vibration will lead the
grains of sand to spontaneouslyorganize in completely different
patterns, depending on whetheryou play this, or this, or this,
(23:44):
or this.
And that is science telling us,yeah, what you hear as a
difference has a scientificbasis.
Absolutely.
Would you like me to play thewhole piece for you?
Yeah,
Music (23:53):
please.
Then let's go.
(28:59):
Thank
Ilham Kadri (28:59):
you very much.
So you talked about the woodsand how walking through the
woods can be inspiring.
What's about the elements?
I think one of my favoritechemical is water.
I didn't.
Yeah, I missed potable waterwhen I was a kid in Morocco.
So I raised, you know, I grew upin Morocco.
You know, just, uh, with thescarcity of water at home.
So I always wanted to work inthe water industry, which I did
(29:21):
in water purification.
So water has been always, youknow, by the ways, the most
scarce natural resource onearth.
We talk a lot about climate,obviously.
There is a sense of urgency, butthere is a sense potable
Nuno Maulide (29:35):
water.
Some of the biggest geopoliticalconflicts in the future will
probably be about...
Come from...
Ilham Kadri (29:40):
The water, right?
So what's about water in music?
Nuno Maulide (29:44):
Actually, that inspires me to think about
another example, which is aChopin etude.
And Chopin, we all know, themaster of
Music (29:52):
melodies, right?
Yeah.
All his
Nuno Maulide (30:05):
pieces have a very clear defined melody, and a very
clear defining accompanyingpart.
And then this etude he wrote,and the melody is just...
It's
Music (30:15):
boring.
It's just full of repeatednotes.
Look at this.
Two, three, four, five, six,seven.
Terrible melody.
And
Nuno Maulide (30:26):
the accompanying
Music (30:27):
part, which we
Nuno Maulide (30:32):
just heard was something beautiful on that note
tune, like full
Music (30:36):
of emotion.
Here it's just.
And then you put
Nuno Maulide (30:43):
everything together, with a little bit of
these pedals here, down here,which help to muddle things a
little bit, and it suddenlysounds as if water was coming
out of the piano.
So, I would like to inspire yourinner child, that had no potable
water, to listen to this andimagine that this piano suddenly
becomes a fountain from whichwater springs.
Let's try.
(31:03):
Let's try.
And all of you at home, try thesame thing.
Ilham Kadri (33:05):
Thank you, Nuno.
You have given me back all theclean water I missed when I was
a girl.
So, thank you.
This is beautiful.
Indeed, I could, you know, beimmersed in water.
In the beauty of water.
So, Chopin, uh, you know, mightbe one of my favorite composers.
Now, as you know, this podcastis about the power of the end, A
(33:26):
and D.
And this episode perfectlybrings, uh, art and science
together.
And I always say that.
Businesses can learn so muchfrom art.
And before you, we got an artistin painting, in, you know, we
got even a cook, a chef cook, aPhD in cooking, which is also an
(33:47):
art.
And when you were playing justnow, I was wondering what do you
think scientists learn frommusic and what can musicians
learn from science?
And on a broader level, what canbusinesses in general learn from
art and music?
Nuno Maulide (34:00):
That is a very interesting question.
So I think...
Scientists and artists both needinnovation and creativity.
This is clear, right?
You need to go where nobody hasgone before.
And that's also what artists doall the time.
But I feel there is a veryinteresting idea for businesses
to learn from art and music.
Because, for example, music andart is permanently focused on
(34:21):
eliciting emotion.
Yeah, I think businesses couldlearn.
I think the current world is theworld of moments, right?
People live in the moment andthen forget and I think what
businesses probably would bevery well advised is to create
emotional connections to thecustomer in the products that
they make in the experiencesthat they elicit So that there
is a, because I think that alsois in the business's advantage
(34:45):
to do so.
I feel so that every artist thatcomposes something has probably
the desire of somehow becomingimmortal, right?
All these people wrote thesepieces in the hope that They
will die and the music willstay.
Will last.
I speak of Bach in the present,I speak of Chopin and Schubert
in the present tense, becausethey died but the music is still
(35:07):
there with us.
And that means that they createdsomething very individual and
very theirs, very their own.
And I think also in businesses,these messages are messages that
very nicely resonate with artand with music.
Because, yeah, once you empowerpeople in a company, in a
(35:29):
business to be unique, tocelebrate their diversity, to
celebrate what makes usdifferent from one another, you
are also somehow cultivating alittle bit of an artistic vein.
Ilham Kadri (35:39):
I love it this way.
And I think you do this when Ialways compare it to a
cathedral, right?
Each of us as a leader, we bringa little stone to the edifice,
right?
With the hope that there is alegacy and there is
universality.
And what you are saying is thatthose artists and those
brilliant musicians, and theywere all.
(36:00):
Universal piece of music, yeteach musician, like you as
pianist, you bring your own soulto it, your own stamp,
Nuno Maulide (36:08):
right?
And this is beautiful, thebeautiful aspect of classical
music is that every interpreterrecreates.
What was written hundreds ofyears ago in his or her own way.
Ilham Kadri (36:20):
So Nuno, is there anything a scientist can grab
from a piece of music?
Nuno Maulide (36:27):
Hmm, now that you mention that, I do, I do like to
think that some pieces of musichave very clear patterns.
Yeah.
And I think the ability to dopattern recognition is probably
what most characterizes.
That's what we like to do.
That's what we like to do.
We hope we aren't going to betaken over by artificial
intelligence and algorithms indoing so.
But there is a piece byRachmaninoff, a prelude in G
(36:49):
sharp major, in which the righthand keeps playing this pattern,
and this pattern appears overand over and over, and gets
superposed or underposed by abeautiful, very, very long...
And I feel there is a lot ofpattern recognition that we
(37:10):
scientists could take from thisprelude.
Let me play it for you, andlet's see how many patterns you
can recognize.
Ilham Kadri (39:58):
So how many patterns, I stopped counting
after four,
Music (40:01):
five, whatever.
How many?
There were quite a few.
Yeah.
A lot.
Ilham Kadri (40:06):
Because I, I kept looking at your right hand, you
know, where it goes and theleft, I'm not a musician, it's
changing all the
Music (40:14):
time.
Nuno Maulide (40:14):
And then the left, this beautiful melody that was
changing all the time, it wasalmost like
Ilham Kadri (40:18):
floating.
It's beautiful.
Thank you, Nuno.
Thank you.
So that's about, you know, themusic cheer emotional power,
which is actually often seen asthe opposite of the rational and
the scientific.
Is that true, Nuno?
Is that in opposition, beingemotional and rational?
Music (40:36):
Um,
Nuno Maulide (40:37):
so I would say there is a lot of emotionality.
In
Music (40:40):
science
Nuno Maulide (40:41):
as well.
Yes, we have all seen many, manyexamples.
I feel, after all, science ismade by humans.
Absolutely.
And we are not robots, we arenot machines.
We, we do cultivate this, thissheer fountain of emotions,
which we are.
And nowhere does that appear tome more than in a piece by
(41:04):
Debussy, Claire de Lune.
Ah.
Which is a pure, what theAmericans would call a
tearjerker, because it's just,it's a piece designed to make
all of us cry.
Yeah.
And to take us and transport usin a trip where you see a
painting that is being paintedwith broad strokes.
Yeah.
And the broad strokes are these,these notes that just fly and
(41:25):
float, right?
Yeah.
This just stays there.
Even though I lifted my handsfrom the piano, the sound is
still going and it's stillchanging.
And, and the notes are goinginto your homes, into your
hearts.
And these are the broad strokesthat he uses to paint a pink, a
painting of.
A dark night with a beautifulmoon, which is probably as
(41:45):
powerful as the lights we havehere on studio because it
illuminates everything.
Music (43:16):
No, no,
Ilham Kadri (46:31):
I can't think of a more beautiful note to finish
this brilliant and musicaldiscussion.
Although I don't want it to end,right?
I can stay here and I'm going tofly and just get into one of
your concerts.
Thank you so much.
No, no, you have, um, frankly,you are gifted.
You have an immense talent.
You are not only a brilliantmusician, but an accomplished
(46:53):
science and the perfect exampleof the power of the end.
And thank you so much for thismoving performance.
I think it's going to inspireour employees around the world,
their families, but also ourpodcasters to showcase again
that the end is the future.
And it's OK to be a musician anda scientist and the bonds, the
(47:14):
human bonds.
Can be an organic chemistry, butcan also come from beautiful
music.
Thank you for your insights, forsharing your talents with us.
Um, and yeah, again, this homeis shining today.
I think the soul of our founderand his wife Adele are probably
somewhere there saying you did agood job in bringing this
(47:35):
talented musician in our house.
Thank you, Nuno.
Nuno Maulide (47:38):
Thank you very much.
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