May 26, 2025 • 36 mins
What if everything you thought you knew about grief was oversimplified? Therapist Taylor Strong challenges the notion that grief follows a neat, linear path through five stages, revealing instead the complex and deeply personal nature of loss.
"Grief is this really unique human experience that's specific to who we are and our relationship with the person," Taylor explains. Rather than a straightforward journey from denial to acceptance, grief often manifests as an unpredictable cycle of emotions that can shift dramatically within the same day. One moment might bring peace that a loved one is no longer suffering; the next might bring profound questioning about why they had to leave at all.
The physical manifestation of grief—what Taylor calls "somatic grief"—is equally complex. Some experience insomnia while others can't stop sleeping. Some feel emotions intensely while others experience numbness as their nervous system protects them from overwhelming pain. These varied responses aren't signs of grieving "incorrectly" but reflect the unique ways our bodies process profound loss.
Perhaps most illuminating is Taylor's insight into what grievers truly need versus what well-intended supporters often provide. Comments like "they're in a better place" or "they're no longer in pain," while meant to comfort, can actually create disconnection. What grievers need isn't solutions but presence—someone who can witness their pain without trying to fix it. As Taylor beautifully puts it: "I understand that this person is experiencing something complex and deep, and if I can just be here for them and hold space, that is a gift in itself."
Whether you're navigating your own grief journey or supporting someone through theirs, this conversation offers profound guidance on honoring the messy, non-linear process of living with loss while finding connection and meaning along the way.
Check out these links to learn more about Taylor Strong and Rise Therapy Center:
Link to Taylor: https://www.risetherapycenter.com/taylor
Link tonTaylor's Blog: https://www.risetherapycenter.com/blog/holding-space-for-grief-the-power-of-sitting-in-someones-pain
Find Taylor on Instagram: @taytalkstherapy
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to.
And Still we Rise.
I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have therapist
Taylor Strong.
Welcome, taylor.
Hello, thank you for having me.
Yes, thank you for joining us.
I would love to read a bioabout Taylor and just kind of
introduce you a little bit towho she is and the work that she
(00:23):
does before we get into ourtopic, if that's okay, all right
.
It is through her owntransformative life experiences
that Taylor made the decision toobtain her master's in social
work After graduating from theUniversity of Southern
California.
She cultivated her passion fortherapy through education and
application of all that shelearned.
(00:43):
The challenges she hasexperienced has given her a deep
sense of empathy and a strongdesire to help others navigate
their own struggles.
She's particularly drawn toworking with adult women, as she
understands firsthand howcomplex and multifaceted life
can be, balancing careers,relationships, personal growth
(01:03):
and everything in between.
Taylor believes that realhealing begins when individuals
can feel secure enough to bevulnerable, to explore their
emotions and to confrontwhatever is holding them back.
Yay, welcome, taylor.
Thank you so much.
I have the honor of workingalongside Taylor, so I've seen
firsthand just the amazing workshe does with her clients and
(01:25):
we're so happy to have her onthe podcast to talk about
something that a lot of peoplereally have a difficult time
talking about and I think as aculture, we have a difficult,
difficult time talking about andthat is grief.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know you work a lotspecifically with people in the
(01:49):
grief space.
You know whether it'sindividuals, you know they're
going through that themselvesand or you know family members
that are trying to supportothers through that process.
So, as complicated as grief is,how would you kind of describe
it and what are some of themisconceptions around grief?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think that's a great question and a great place
to start, because I think thatgrief is just one of these
really unique human experiencesthat we have and it's very, you
know, unique to who we are andour experience just with the
person.
And I do kind of want to saythat, like I think in this
(02:28):
podcast, like the grief thatwe're going to be mostly
focusing on today is the griefof like losing a loved one, but
I think it is important to notethat there's so many other
experiences that can creategrief right, like life
transitions, you know, loss of ajob, loss of a home these types
of things can all bring aboutthe feelings of grief.
(02:49):
But I think that mostly today,like, we're talking about losing
a loved one, right, andexperiencing that kind of grief,
um, but I just think it'simportant to touch on that as
well Um, I think that a hugemisconception, or something that
I think a lot of people think,is that we cycle through grief
(03:10):
in this linear progression,right, like we just go through,
and we move through these stagesreally neatly, like we have, I
think, it's denial, anger,bargaining, depression, and then
we have this like we reach thissort of like acceptance, right
and the fact of the matter is,is that, just like,
(03:31):
oversimplifies this intenselycomplex process, right?
So what we know is thateveryone's experience with grief
is so different, it's so unique.
It's unique to the person, it'sunique to the relationship that
they have with the deceased.
It is something that is goingto look different from person to
(03:53):
person and we just can't expectthat it's going to be the same
for everyone and we're going tobe able to just neatly move
through this process, right?
And I think that grief isreally unpredictable, right Like
?
And that can be reallyfrustrating for people who are
experiencing grief.
Because I think that one dayyou might be in this place where
(04:14):
you're like oh, you know, likeI, I understand, like I do feel,
like you know, like I'm, I'm,I'm having peace with the fact
that you know my loved ones nolonger in pain and no longer
suffering, right?
But then that very sameafternoon, you might be why did
this have to happen?
I miss them so much.
I'm like why can't they just behere?
(04:35):
Why did they have to get sickin the first place?
And people feel so bewilderedby this, right Like.
It's just so exhausting in somany ways to just cycle through
all of these emotions.
But I think that when we canallow people to understand that
we're not just going to be ableto start here and be in this and
(04:58):
then get over it, we sort ofintroduce the concept more of
moving forward into life ratherthan moving on and just
accepting the loss.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I agree, and I think that, like what you said,
is like grief is such thisunique human experiences,
because we just can't understandit fully.
You know, when we look at, whenwe look at from a therapeutic
perspective, being able to cometo terms with things, you know,
we go through this awareness andacceptance process and for
(05:32):
death specifically, it's likeit's so hard for us to wrap our
hands, our heads around likewhat is this and why did it
happen?
I mean, there's just not a tonof answers for us, and so it's.
It does get very messy, andthat's where you're saying, like
you find yourself in this verykind of like chaotic place of
like I felt great yesterday, whyam I feeling this way today?
(05:54):
And just being able to digestit in a linear way is just, it's
almost impossible.
So so tell us a little bit ofhow grief kind of shows up, like
you know how it shows upphysically, spiritually,
emotionally, like how do peoplekind of experience grief from
that perspective?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
so I think that that I also love this question too,
because I think that what we'retalking about too, with, like,
the physical manifestation ofgrief and otherwise known as
somatic grief, is so importantto talk about because I think
that a lot of times peopleexperience that and they think,
like there's something reallywrong with me, right, but like
(06:37):
it is very common to have lossof appetite, you know, sleep
disturbances, these kinds ofthings that happen when we're
experiencing like really intensegrief, like that will show up
for us.
We have to be really mindfuljust of you know, leaning into,
(06:57):
you know sort of, I guess, moreso tapping into our resources
when things like that arehappening, because those kinds
of things can really get away onyou, right, like, and it can be
really exhausting because youhave to think like some people.
For them it's like they justwant to sleep all the time they
they're feeling, and it's it'slike that with depression too.
(07:19):
Like it's either you are thesleep comes very easily and you
have a lot of it, or you're notable to sleep at all and you're
up thinking and your mind isgoing, and we know how important
sleep is for mental health whenyou are in the best way, but
you add on that component ofgrief, and it can be really
(07:41):
really difficult when you havethese physical symptoms as well,
and this somatic feelings andand our somatic grief that
you're feeling.
Yeah, I definitely think thatthat is a conversation that is
really important to have, too,with someone who's grieving is
how are you feeling physicallyRight?
It's not.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It's not the mental energy that's being expended all
the time, it's not the mentalenergy that's being expended all
the time, yeah, and I, and Ithink it.
What's interesting is like, justlike grief itself, even the
physical manifestation of thatcan be just varied and and
across the spectrum, based uponthe person.
I've had people come in, youknow, relatively soon after a
(08:21):
loss and they're like I,literally, I'm just numb, like I
can't, I can't access reallyanything, I can't access any
feelings, and I'm like, yeah,your nervous system is pretty
taxed right now, like it's kindof protecting you to kind of
slowly digest the, the traumaand the way that the nervous
system has the availability todo.
(08:42):
And so, you know, a lot oftimes people will be like I feel
like I should be like, you know, not getting out of bed, or I
feel like I should, you know, beanxious all the time, but I
actually don't access anything.
You know, right, yeah, again,it's like one of those you know
manifestations that if we couldonly say this is what you're
(09:03):
going to experience in this way,it would create such a support
for people, but it's sodifferent for every single
person, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, and I think, going back to what we were
talking about before, just aboutit being such a unique
experience right Cause you justlike the sleep example, but also
like what you're talking aboutis you might have people who you
know they're just feeling allthe feelings and they feel like
they're feeling too much, andthen you have someone who is not
able to feel at all.
Or you know you have people whodo want to just lay in bed and
(09:36):
they that's really all they canhandle at the time.
But then there's others who gointo this kind of hyper
productivity mode where it'slike they just want to do, do,
do, do, do you know, to kind ofpush down.
You know the feelings or feellike you know that's what makes
them feel better and we have tobe really aware of that again,
(09:56):
that it is unique to the grieverand who they are as a person,
and oftentimes you know that maychange, right, like that may
look different day to day aswell.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, and you know, before we started recording, we
actually said something we werekind of talking about how you
know grief.
You know, of course we, wephysically have the
manifestations, emotionally wego through like all the
different feelings.
You know we're, we're cyclingthrough that whole grief process
over and all over the place.
But spiritually, grief is a isa difficult thing to grapple
(10:32):
with as well.
What are some of your thoughtsabout that?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I have a couple of thoughts about this, but I
think that, yeah, I think thatspiritually it's okay.
I just want to tell people that, like you're going to have
questions, right.
I think that I talked to a lotof people who are grieving and
they kind of they want answers,right, like, like you had
mentioned before, we just wedon't really know right, like we
(10:58):
, we don't definitively know, wedon't have the answers and I
think that we want them.
I think that that makes us feellike we might feel better.
But I think that when you addin that spiritual component, it
can either be helpful for peopleor sometimes it can leave them
with more questions, and that'sokay too.
(11:20):
And that's where I think that,as someone who's supporting
someone with grieving, it's okayto say you know, it's okay to
not have the answers right, it'sokay that you're questioning
this right now.
It doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a bad
Christian or whatever it isthat's making you question these
things.
(11:41):
But I do think that that can becomplicated at times and I think
too, you know, I wanted tobring cultural competency into
the conversation.
I think that that's reallyimportant when we are supporting
people in grief to understandwhere they are spiritually and
(12:02):
what that means to them and Ithink that that does look so
different person to person, andfor us to be respectful and
aware that people have differentpractices and traditions and
it's going to be different independing on their culture,
right, and the thing is is, ifthat's not something that we
understand, it's something thatwe should ask and we should be
(12:26):
respectful to the griever thatif they're not in a place to
kind of give us that explanationbecause they may not be, that,
may not be something that theyhave the capacity for we ask
someone who is a loved one tothem, who maybe would be able to
give us that information, andwe come in this open way of
supporting them and meeting themwhere they are as who they are
(12:50):
and what their culture is, and Ithink that that is so important
and I know we're going to getinto later just like
well-meaning, you know yeah,that's actually where I was.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
My mind was already like, yeah, remembering some
situations and you know, I thinkthere's there.
This is such a dynamic conceptto think about.
Like, when you're looking atthis relationally, you have the
person grieving and then youhave these loved ones of that
person who genuinely arewell-meaning, but as a culture
(13:27):
we are highly uncomfortable withdeath and loss and people being
in a grieving state, like we'revery uncomfortable on how to
attune and attend and I thinksometimes that spirituality
component can be a little bit ofof that, that harm.
That can be done too, right?
(13:49):
Yeah, If we're coming in tobring the spirituality because
we're uncomfortable with their,with their discomfort, you know,
it can get a little, a littlemessy.
So what are some things thatpeople do Well meaning people
right Cause they genuinelythey're there in that space, but
they're probably highlyuncomfortable?
What are some things thatpeople do Well-meaning people
right Cause they genuinelythey're there in that space, but
they're probably highlyuncomfortable?
What are some of the thingsthat they may be doing in a very
(14:11):
well-meaning way but canactually be really not helpful
to somebody who's grieving?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, I think too to touch on something you just said
too, along those lines likethat, that is, us making an
assumption too that someoneholds the same belief that we
have, right, and I think we haveto be really, really careful
not to do that, especially inthese situations when we are
trying to attune and attend tosomeone in their grief and in
their experience, right.
(14:38):
So I think that you know, Ithink that people will say
things like they're in a betterplace now, right, and the
unfortunate thing is is they arewell-meaning, they are trying
to alleviate the pain of thegriever, they are trying to
(14:59):
connect with the griever andthey are trying to fix their
pain, Right, and this is anunfixable situation.
This isn't something that youknow.
And I've one of my, one of myclients made a comment just
unless somebody had a timemachine, right, and I'm like,
right, absolutely Like, unlesssomeone had a time machine, like
(15:21):
we can't change this, but againoperating on that assumption
that they hold the same beliefas you.
But then take it a step further.
I think that when we make acomment like that, we are
diminishing the pain a bit, in away of making the griever feel
(15:42):
disconnected from their grief,because they will start to
question themselves like, well,why can't I just accept that
they're in a better place?
Why do I have to feel so sadright now?
Why can't I get peace from thisstatement?
And then they're kind of inthis like internal sort of
conflict.
From this comment, right, andalthough it's well-meaning, it's
(16:08):
now kind of created this spacethat the griever feels
disillusioned, disconnected andhurting even more.
Right, and I think that anotherone that people like to say is
they're no longer in pain.
You know, that's true, that is100% true.
This person is no longer inpain, and I think that that is
(16:31):
one of these kind of tricky onesthat does feel like something
good to say.
But again, I think that that'slike one of these things where,
when someone is acutely grieving, especially, they're not in a
space to hear that, becausethey're thinking right, they're
not in pain.
But why did they even have to besick in the first place?
(16:53):
Why did they have to be gone?
It doesn't make me feel betterthat they're not.
Nothing makes me feel betterthat they're not here, because
that's all I really want, right?
Is?
I just want that their physicalpresence.
That's what I yearn for, that'swhat I'm experiencing right now
, and so I was also thinkingjust like on what is and isn't
(17:13):
helpful to say right.
And I think that some peoplehave the argument that saying
I'm sorry is not the right thingto say.
I personally feel that I'msorry is an okay thing to say
you are sorry, you are sorrythat this person lost their
loved one, but I think, kind ofpartnering it with something
(17:33):
such as I'm sorry, I see thatthis is so painful for you and
I'm here, I'm here for you,right.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's the key.
That's the key right there Ithink you just hit the nail on
the head.
Is everything else that youkind of use as examples was
almost a way to escape actuallyconnecting with a person that's
grieving.
It's almost like, hey, I wantto be here for you, but I really
want you to move to a place ofacceptance.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I want you to move through this so I'm not so
uncomfortable with this anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, and what you're saying on the other side of
like I'm sorry, I can see howpainful this is for you is
somebody actually connecting tothe griever to witness them.
You know, instead of thegriever feeling somewhat
isolated, witness them.
You know, instead of that, thegriever feeling somewhat
isolated and disconnect,disconnected in their pain and
with the shame of like, well,should I be feeling like this?
(18:28):
Am I, am I like a bummer?
Am I bringing down the vibe?
Like are people going to notwant to hang out with me?
And you know, when somebody isexperiencing something, really
what we all genuinely need is tobe witnessed in that, yeah,
it's a well-meaning.
People want to be in a spacewith you, but, goodness, to see
(18:49):
that pain and to witness thatpain, that can be really
uncomfortable for people.
So something just as as simplebut genuine as I'm sorry, I can
see you is so powerful, I think,for people when they're in that
place.
Yes, absolutely yeah.
What are your thoughts abouttimelines?
(19:09):
You know, because you knowpeople, I think, are fine,
understanding that grief can bea very intense experience, but
not everybody has the samecomfort with the timelines that
people may be in and their owngrief, and then timelines around
(19:30):
people being there to help,attune and attend to them in
that grief.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
No, I think that's interesting because I think that
people do put parameters on,like the timelines of how long
people are allowed to grieve, oryou know how long they're
allowed to do this or that afterthe loss of a loved one.
Right, like I can't, I can'tbelieve she's already doing that
, you know.
Like you know he's only been.
I can't believe she's datingagain.
(19:56):
He's only been gone for a year,right, been gone for a year.
Right, either side of that,yeah, right, and so it's just.
I think that is you know in, Iknow in the in the DSM, right,
so our diagnostic manual that weuse as social workers and LPCs,
so there is something calledprolonged grief and they used to
(20:18):
call it complicated grief and,and I believe it used to be only
six months and then theyextended it out to 12 months for
adults and I think it's sixmonths for minors.
But our children, but they saythat if you are experiencing
these like really intensesymptoms of grief, that we kind
(20:39):
of connect to that really acutephase of grief, such as like
when things just have transpiredand the physical symptoms, the
very emotional, all of thesethings are taking place, that if
it's taking place and this isjust like sort of the clinical
perspective, but if it's takingplace longer than a year and
(21:03):
those kinds of their perspectiveof timelines and what's
accepted and what's not, again,it's really going to depend on
(21:28):
the person, right?
And I've talked about this withmy clients too, just like the
way grief can look so different.
You know, I think in our life,like we have expectations right
Of like we, we understand, likewhat's normal and what's not, in
a sense of like we have ourparents and we have our
grandparents and we have oursiblings, you know, maybe or not
(21:53):
.
And then there's us, right, weknow our parents are roughly
however much older than we are.
We know our grandparents arehowever much older than we are.
We know our grandparents arehowever much older than we are,
right, so it is likely in ourtimeline of life that there will
be a time in our life that wewill live without our
grandparents, and that is justsomething that our brain
understands, that's something weinherently understand from.
(22:15):
You know, basically, once wekind of understand the concept
of death and the finality ofdeath and all of these things.
But I think that when we are ina situation where there is a
traumatic or unexpected deaththat takes place, that takes
place out of the naturalprogression of life and what
(22:36):
that timeline looks like.
That may take a lot longer forsomeone to cycle through grief
and there may be moreresurfacing that takes place in
in it.
You know, in versus a situationof if you have someone who
(22:57):
passed, who's lived a very longlife and has passed away
peacefully, that looks reallydifferently, right?
And then you also add on peoplewho have multiple losses, right
?
So we know that compoundedgrief is a thing, so you
experience one loss and youexperience another and it can
(23:19):
bring up feelings of theprevious grief and exacerbate
those symptoms, right?
So you know it's.
I do think that a lot of thesequestions do kind of circle back
to this answer of it is sounique to that person and their
experience and we have to becompassionate towards that that
(23:42):
they will go through their griefin the way that is unique to
them and there really is notimeline for that.
And you know, take the clinicalstuff out, that is just the
case.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So and I think you made a good point, like also how
that grief transpired, you know, and?
And what support system doesdoes someone really have in
order to process their grief?
You know, I, when I was in highschool, I lost my little sister
in a car accident, very tragic,very sudden.
We were only two years apart.
(24:19):
And you know, I didn't realizeit till years later, after I had
, you know, gone into therapy.
But at that time I couldn'tprocess my grief.
You know, my family wasgrieving, my parents were
grieving.
There wasn't reallyavailability for me to actually
grieve, you know, because therewas no support system.
And when I would be with myfriends, of course, like the
(24:41):
initial few weeks after theaccident, you know, they were
all there, they were, they weregrieving too.
But I remember, like coming,you know, talking to this poor
little boyfriend, you know,after about three months, and I
was still kind of trying toprocess it, and he was like
don't you think it's time tomove on?
And I remember being so shockedby that because I didn't even
(25:03):
feel like I had begun grieving.
And I think that that's alsosomething we can note that grief
can also be suppressed, andrepressed if it's not safe to
process your grief If you reallydon't have the support system,
the resources, the capacity.
And I think about a lot of youknow, children I've worked with
(25:24):
or adults who have had losses inchildhood and very complicated
after effects.
Sometimes they come to therapyand have not even begun to
process grief.
And so I think that's somethingto acknowledge is like not
everybody has the support systemand resources to do that work,
while meeting people are not.
(25:44):
Maybe they're not even there,you know, whether physically or
emotionally.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Right, Exactly they.
They may have people who arethere physically to support them
and do, but they are notemotionally available to support
that person in a way that theyneed at that time.
And that is huge right.
Because I think too, that kindof creates this cycle of feeling
uncomfortable in your grief andsort of trying to mask it.
(26:11):
And as we know, it doesn't justgo away, right, it goes
somewhere unless we kind ofprocess through it.
And even if we do, it continuesto come up, but when we repress
it and we're just not allowedthat space it can be really
damaging.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, it definitely can, and so I think that that
really resonates about howimportant it is to have
community or a support person orwhatnot.
So what suggestions or whatrecommendation would you make to
our listeners, to our viewers,whether they are somebody who's
going through the grievingprocess themselves or somebody
(26:54):
who is witnessing somebody goingthrough the grieving process
and just genuinely wants to showup in a way to support them,
whether through their words orsupport in other ways.
What would you recommend wouldbe the first steps to begin
processing and digestingsomething so complex, but in a
healthy way, right?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So I think that you know, like listening to this and
sort of like getting thisperspective is helpful, right
and um, I was able to write ablog that we published on our
website at rise, and that blogis specifically focused on
holding space and not jumping tofix the grief of the griever
(27:39):
right.
Like.
Viewing it from this lens ofthat, I understand that this
person that I am in connectionwith and in relationship with is
experiencing something that isvery complex and very deep, and
(27:59):
if I can just be here for themand hold space for them and
witness them and honor that painthat they're experiencing, that
is a gift in and of itself,which is, per our conversation
before, very hard to do.
Right, and you are allowed tofeel that in your body and say
(28:21):
this feels really uncomfortableto me.
My natural inclination is tofix right, like that's why, when
somebody passes away, youautomatically have three or four
lasagnas sitting on yourcounter, because I'm healing you
through my lasagna.
I don't know what to do, so I'mgoing to make food, right?
No, I, or I'm going to sendwhich, which are all really
(28:45):
wonderful, yes, absolutely yes,and.
I think that those things arewonderful too, but if this is
someone that you are inconnection with, who is like
really looking at you to be thissupportive person, I think that
letting yourself and allowingyourself to be that person who
just holds space for them,without trying to fix that, is
(29:10):
what is so needed for the personwho is grieving and all of
those other things, like youknow, like honoring the loved
one and you know, like maybecreating rituals and things like
that.
Those things can come right,but like they may not, just
understanding and appreciatingthat they may not be in the
space that they are there yetwhere they can sort of wrap
(29:34):
their mind around those thingsthat may not feel good to them,
and also being open and beingunderstanding to them just about
what their needs are and whothey are uniquely as an
individual.
I think that caring for someonewho's grieving is really
difficult, right, that's youpouring into someone who really
(30:01):
likely does not have thecapacity to give anything back.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So it's that sacrificial, like caring for
somebody when they can't carefor themselves.
Almost you know exactly and Ido.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I like to think too, just like I thought of this
example before, just like when,so like with little kids, like
when they're little, if they gooutside and they like skin their
knee right, it's like ournatural inclination just to like
scoop them up right and justsay, oh you.
So like with little kids, likewhen they're little, if they go
outside and they like skin theirknee right, it's like our
natural inclination just to likescoop them up Right and just
say, oh, you know how are youOkay, and let's take you inside,
let's fix it.
Let's like, let's clean off thewound.
(30:34):
Let's like put some ointment onit and a bandaid whether or not
that's supposed to do anymore,I don't know, but you know for
them.
And I think that's what we wantto be able to do with grief,
right and like we want that sobadly.
But you know that that justisn't how this type of situation
(30:56):
is is fixed, you know what Imean.
It's not just fixable, justlike that Right.
It's not just like it is awound, but it's not a wound that
we can tangibly fix right away.
And when we are caring forsomeone who is grieving, we have
to be, you know, aware of howwe are taking care of ourselves
(31:17):
right and we talked about thisbefore we started and really
encouraging someone to, you know, get the help that they need.
Right, because for some peoplethey may not be comfortable, you
know, going to therapy ortalking to someone and being
someone who feels safe for themto talk to that about, about
(31:38):
what it is that they might befearful of or what their
concerns are, or you know whatthat might look like and sort of
working that out with them,like if there's any barriers to
care there.
And I think that you know takinga temp check for yourself on
your own resources, because youknow we talked too about
compassion, fatigue andessentially what that is is like
(31:58):
you get to the point where youlack empathy, right, because you
are pouring, pouring, pouringfrom an empty cup and you are no
longer having the capacity to,you know, just continue to give.
So I think, before it gets tothat point because it can, um,
being in mental health, weunderstand that as well that you
(32:19):
are making sure your resourcesare online right, like you are
getting the support that youneed, you are sleeping well, you
are eating well and you arenourishing your body and giving
yourself what you need in orderto be the support to that person
.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, and I think, I think that's the other side of
the spectrum of whelming people,may you know, on one side they
might be somewhat dismissivebecause they're uncomfortable
with it and on the other side ofit they might be a little too
over-functioning and to thepoint of their own, you know,
burnout, or their own fatigue,because you know they're almost
(32:56):
not creating space for theperson grieving to go seek that
support in the places and spacesthat can be a container for
them.
And I know we talked about likepeer community and really going
to a deeply rooted, you knowgrief, focused therapist that
you know those are places thatcan really be the container for
(33:19):
somebody to process through this.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, and to feel safe, right, and we talked about
that shared experience and howimportant that can be.
And I know in my own experienceof grief, it wasn't until I met
other people who hadexperienced what I experienced,
and I'll never forget the firsttime I sat down in this group I
was like, wow, I feel seen andunderstood in a way that I have
(33:45):
been not even knowing that Iwanted until I got here and and
I just it's, it's, it's, therereally is something to being
like.
Yeah, I get it, I get it, I seeyou and I get how painful that
is.
And, although our experiencesare not exactly the same, we are
(34:06):
able to connect and understandeach other in a way that you
know others might not be able to, and and as human beings, we we
seek that kind of connectionand commonality anyway, right,
but in this very unique, intenseexperience it can be very, very
helpful.
So definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
And I think something you pointed out was you know
earlier was that oftentimes, ifwe're not in community that
hasn't had that same sharedexperience, sometimes our
identity becomes grief relatedright Like I know an experience
was like since none of myfriends had experienced that
before, there was almost likeyou know, she's the one who lost
her sister.
She's like, oh okay, that'sovershadowing like just wanting
(34:51):
to genuinely go out and meet newpeople and stuff.
So I think in those peercommunities you kind of get to
be yourself again.
Yeah.
You know, you get to beprocessing the grief.
Processing the grief versus aloved one who lost their person,
you know Right.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Absolutely no.
I think that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Well, this has been just a very, I think, beautiful
conversation and Taylor doesn'tknow this, but before we started
recording she told me that shesaw there was a cardinal outside
her window and we you knowthose of you that don't know
cardinals are kind of a symbolof our loved ones coming to kind
(35:34):
of comfort us and let us knowthat the veil between the here
and there is really not thatthick and, interestingly enough,
while we were recording, I havea window right over here to my
left and a cardinal fluttered upto the window twice.
So very interesting little playout in our conversation.
So we really appreciateeverybody listening, everybody
(35:59):
watching and those that are hereand those that are not.
Yes, absolutely Thank you, andI would love to put a link
Taylor to your blog so everybodylistening know that I'll be
putting her bio in thedescription.
There will also be kind of likea timeline of everything that
was talked about in this.
Any socials that Taylor wants toshare, where you can find her.
(36:22):
If you're looking to work witha therapist around this topic or
any of the other topics thatTaylor really is just extremely
proficient in, please click onthat and we'd be happy to set
you up with her, but we'll alsoput a link to her blog, because
it was really beautifullywritten and just a really great
example of how to be in thisspace with people.
(36:42):
So thanks again for joining,taylor.
It was so lovely to have you onhere.
I can't wait to have you on formany more.
All right, thank you everyonefor listening and we'll see you
next time.
Bye, bye.
Hello and welcome to.
And Still we Rise.
I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have therapist
Taylor Strong.
Welcome, taylor.
Hello, thank you for having me.
Yes, thank you for joining us.
I would love to read a bioabout Taylor and just kind of
introduce you a little bit towho she is and the work that she
(00:23):
does before we get into ourtopic, if that's okay, all right
.
It is through her owntransformative life experiences
that Taylor made the decision toobtain her master's in social
work After graduating from theUniversity of Southern
California.
She cultivated her passion fortherapy through education and
application of all that shelearned.
(00:43):
The challenges she hasexperienced has given her a deep
sense of empathy and a strongdesire to help others navigate
their own struggles.
She's particularly drawn toworking with adult women, as she
understands firsthand howcomplex and multifaceted life
can be, balancing careers,relationships, personal growth
(01:03):
and everything in between.
Taylor believes that realhealing begins when individuals
can feel secure enough to bevulnerable, to explore their
emotions and to confrontwhatever is holding them back.
Yay, welcome, taylor.
Thank you so much.
I have the honor of workingalongside Taylor, so I've seen
firsthand just the amazing workshe does with her clients and
(01:25):
we're so happy to have her onthe podcast to talk about
something that a lot of peoplereally have a difficult time
talking about and I think as aculture, we have a difficult,
difficult time talking about andthat is grief.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know you work a lotspecifically with people in the
(01:49):
grief space.
You know whether it'sindividuals, you know they're
going through that themselvesand or you know family members
that are trying to supportothers through that process.
So, as complicated as grief is,how would you kind of describe
it and what are some of themisconceptions around grief?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I think that's a great question and a great place
to start, because I think thatgrief is just one of these
really unique human experiencesthat we have and it's very, you
know, unique to who we are andour experience just with the
person.
And I do kind of want to saythat, like I think in this
(02:28):
podcast, like the grief thatwe're going to be mostly
focusing on today is the griefof like losing a loved one, but
I think it is important to notethat there's so many other
experiences that can creategrief right, like life
transitions, you know, loss of ajob, loss of a home these types
of things can all bring aboutthe feelings of grief.
(02:49):
But I think that mostly today,like, we're talking about losing
a loved one, right, andexperiencing that kind of grief,
um, but I just think it'simportant to touch on that as
well Um, I think that a hugemisconception, or something that
I think a lot of people think,is that we cycle through grief
(03:10):
in this linear progression,right, like we just go through,
and we move through these stagesreally neatly, like we have, I
think, it's denial, anger,bargaining, depression, and then
we have this like we reach thissort of like acceptance, right
and the fact of the matter is,is that, just like,
(03:31):
oversimplifies this intenselycomplex process, right?
So what we know is thateveryone's experience with grief
is so different, it's so unique.
It's unique to the person, it'sunique to the relationship that
they have with the deceased.
It is something that is goingto look different from person to
(03:53):
person and we just can't expectthat it's going to be the same
for everyone and we're going tobe able to just neatly move
through this process, right?
And I think that grief isreally unpredictable, right Like
?
And that can be reallyfrustrating for people who are
experiencing grief.
Because I think that one dayyou might be in this place where
(04:14):
you're like oh, you know, likeI, I understand, like I do feel,
like you know, like I'm, I'm,I'm having peace with the fact
that you know my loved ones nolonger in pain and no longer
suffering, right?
But then that very sameafternoon, you might be why did
this have to happen?
I miss them so much.
I'm like why can't they just behere?
(04:35):
Why did they have to get sickin the first place?
And people feel so bewilderedby this, right Like.
It's just so exhausting in somany ways to just cycle through
all of these emotions.
But I think that when we canallow people to understand that
we're not just going to be ableto start here and be in this and
(04:58):
then get over it, we sort ofintroduce the concept more of
moving forward into life ratherthan moving on and just
accepting the loss.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I agree, and I think that, like what you said,
is like grief is such thisunique human experiences,
because we just can't understandit fully.
You know, when we look at, whenwe look at from a therapeutic
perspective, being able to cometo terms with things, you know,
we go through this awareness andacceptance process and for
(05:32):
death specifically, it's likeit's so hard for us to wrap our
hands, our heads around likewhat is this and why did it
happen?
I mean, there's just not a tonof answers for us, and so it's.
It does get very messy, andthat's where you're saying, like
you find yourself in this verykind of like chaotic place of
like I felt great yesterday, whyam I feeling this way today?
(05:54):
And just being able to digestit in a linear way is just, it's
almost impossible.
So so tell us a little bit ofhow grief kind of shows up, like
you know how it shows upphysically, spiritually,
emotionally, like how do peoplekind of experience grief from
that perspective?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
so I think that that I also love this question too,
because I think that what we'retalking about too, with, like,
the physical manifestation ofgrief and otherwise known as
somatic grief, is so importantto talk about because I think
that a lot of times peopleexperience that and they think,
like there's something reallywrong with me, right, but like
(06:37):
it is very common to have lossof appetite, you know, sleep
disturbances, these kinds ofthings that happen when we're
experiencing like really intensegrief, like that will show up
for us.
We have to be really mindfuljust of you know, leaning into,
(06:57):
you know sort of, I guess, moreso tapping into our resources
when things like that arehappening, because those kinds
of things can really get away onyou, right, like, and it can be
really exhausting because youhave to think like some people.
For them it's like they justwant to sleep all the time they
they're feeling, and it's it'slike that with depression too.
(07:19):
Like it's either you are thesleep comes very easily and you
have a lot of it, or you're notable to sleep at all and you're
up thinking and your mind isgoing, and we know how important
sleep is for mental health whenyou are in the best way, but
you add on that component ofgrief, and it can be really
(07:41):
really difficult when you havethese physical symptoms as well,
and this somatic feelings andand our somatic grief that
you're feeling.
Yeah, I definitely think thatthat is a conversation that is
really important to have, too,with someone who's grieving is
how are you feeling physicallyRight?
It's not.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It's not the mental energy that's being expended all
the time, it's not the mentalenergy that's being expended all
the time, yeah, and I, and Ithink it.
What's interesting is like, justlike grief itself, even the
physical manifestation of thatcan be just varied and and
across the spectrum, based uponthe person.
I've had people come in, youknow, relatively soon after a
(08:21):
loss and they're like I,literally, I'm just numb, like I
can't, I can't access reallyanything, I can't access any
feelings, and I'm like, yeah,your nervous system is pretty
taxed right now, like it's kindof protecting you to kind of
slowly digest the, the traumaand the way that the nervous
system has the availability todo.
(08:42):
And so, you know, a lot oftimes people will be like I feel
like I should be like, you know, not getting out of bed, or I
feel like I should, you know, beanxious all the time, but I
actually don't access anything.
You know, right, yeah, again,it's like one of those you know
manifestations that if we couldonly say this is what you're
(09:03):
going to experience in this way,it would create such a support
for people, but it's sodifferent for every single
person, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, and I think, going back to what we were
talking about before, just aboutit being such a unique
experience right Cause you justlike the sleep example, but also
like what you're talking aboutis you might have people who you
know they're just feeling allthe feelings and they feel like
they're feeling too much, andthen you have someone who is not
able to feel at all.
Or you know you have people whodo want to just lay in bed and
(09:36):
they that's really all they canhandle at the time.
But then there's others who gointo this kind of hyper
productivity mode where it'slike they just want to do, do,
do, do, do you know, to kind ofpush down.
You know the feelings or feellike you know that's what makes
them feel better and we have tobe really aware of that again,
(09:56):
that it is unique to the grieverand who they are as a person,
and oftentimes you know that maychange, right, like that may
look different day to day aswell.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, and you know, before we started recording, we
actually said something we werekind of talking about how you
know grief.
You know, of course we, wephysically have the
manifestations, emotionally wego through like all the
different feelings.
You know we're, we're cyclingthrough that whole grief process
over and all over the place.
But spiritually, grief is a isa difficult thing to grapple
(10:32):
with as well.
What are some of your thoughtsabout that?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I have a couple of thoughts about this, but I
think that, yeah, I think thatspiritually it's okay.
I just want to tell people that, like you're going to have
questions, right.
I think that I talked to a lotof people who are grieving and
they kind of they want answers,right, like, like you had
mentioned before, we just wedon't really know right, like we
(10:58):
, we don't definitively know, wedon't have the answers and I
think that we want them.
I think that that makes us feellike we might feel better.
But I think that when you addin that spiritual component, it
can either be helpful for peopleor sometimes it can leave them
with more questions, and that'sokay too.
(11:20):
And that's where I think that,as someone who's supporting
someone with grieving, it's okayto say you know, it's okay to
not have the answers right, it'sokay that you're questioning
this right now.
It doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a bad
Christian or whatever it isthat's making you question these
things.
(11:41):
But I do think that that can becomplicated at times and I think
too, you know, I wanted tobring cultural competency into
the conversation.
I think that that's reallyimportant when we are supporting
people in grief to understandwhere they are spiritually and
(12:02):
what that means to them and Ithink that that does look so
different person to person, andfor us to be respectful and
aware that people have differentpractices and traditions and
it's going to be different independing on their culture,
right, and the thing is is, ifthat's not something that we
understand, it's something thatwe should ask and we should be
(12:26):
respectful to the griever thatif they're not in a place to
kind of give us that explanationbecause they may not be, that,
may not be something that theyhave the capacity for we ask
someone who is a loved one tothem, who maybe would be able to
give us that information, andwe come in this open way of
supporting them and meeting themwhere they are as who they are
(12:50):
and what their culture is, and Ithink that that is so important
and I know we're going to getinto later just like
well-meaning, you know yeah,that's actually where I was.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
My mind was already like, yeah, remembering some
situations and you know, I thinkthere's there.
This is such a dynamic conceptto think about.
Like, when you're looking atthis relationally, you have the
person grieving and then youhave these loved ones of that
person who genuinely arewell-meaning, but as a culture
(13:27):
we are highly uncomfortable withdeath and loss and people being
in a grieving state, like we'revery uncomfortable on how to
attune and attend and I thinksometimes that spirituality
component can be a little bit ofof that, that harm.
That can be done too, right?
(13:49):
Yeah, If we're coming in tobring the spirituality because
we're uncomfortable with their,with their discomfort, you know,
it can get a little, a littlemessy.
So what are some things thatpeople do Well meaning people
right Cause they genuinelythey're there in that space, but
they're probably highlyuncomfortable?
What are some things thatpeople do Well-meaning people
right Cause they genuinelythey're there in that space, but
they're probably highlyuncomfortable?
What are some of the thingsthat they may be doing in a very
(14:11):
well-meaning way but canactually be really not helpful
to somebody who's grieving?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, I think too to touch on something you just said
too, along those lines likethat, that is, us making an
assumption too that someoneholds the same belief that we
have, right, and I think we haveto be really, really careful
not to do that, especially inthese situations when we are
trying to attune and attend tosomeone in their grief and in
their experience, right.
(14:38):
So I think that you know, Ithink that people will say
things like they're in a betterplace now, right, and the
unfortunate thing is is they arewell-meaning, they are trying
to alleviate the pain of thegriever, they are trying to
(14:59):
connect with the griever andthey are trying to fix their
pain, Right, and this is anunfixable situation.
This isn't something that youknow.
And I've one of my, one of myclients made a comment just
unless somebody had a timemachine, right, and I'm like,
right, absolutely Like, unlesssomeone had a time machine, like
(15:21):
we can't change this, but againoperating on that assumption
that they hold the same beliefas you.
But then take it a step further.
I think that when we make acomment like that, we are
diminishing the pain a bit, in away of making the griever feel
(15:42):
disconnected from their grief,because they will start to
question themselves like, well,why can't I just accept that
they're in a better place?
Why do I have to feel so sadright now?
Why can't I get peace from thisstatement?
And then they're kind of inthis like internal sort of
conflict.
From this comment, right, andalthough it's well-meaning, it's
(16:08):
now kind of created this spacethat the griever feels
disillusioned, disconnected andhurting even more.
Right, and I think that anotherone that people like to say is
they're no longer in pain.
You know, that's true, that is100% true.
This person is no longer inpain, and I think that that is
(16:31):
one of these kind of tricky onesthat does feel like something
good to say.
But again, I think that that'slike one of these things where,
when someone is acutely grieving, especially, they're not in a
space to hear that, becausethey're thinking right, they're
not in pain.
But why did they even have to besick in the first place?
(16:53):
Why did they have to be gone?
It doesn't make me feel betterthat they're not.
Nothing makes me feel betterthat they're not here, because
that's all I really want, right?
Is?
I just want that their physicalpresence.
That's what I yearn for, that'swhat I'm experiencing right now
, and so I was also thinkingjust like on what is and isn't
(17:13):
helpful to say right.
And I think that some peoplehave the argument that saying
I'm sorry is not the right thingto say.
I personally feel that I'msorry is an okay thing to say
you are sorry, you are sorrythat this person lost their
loved one, but I think, kind ofpartnering it with something
(17:33):
such as I'm sorry, I see thatthis is so painful for you and
I'm here, I'm here for you,right.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's the key.
That's the key right there Ithink you just hit the nail on
the head.
Is everything else that youkind of use as examples was
almost a way to escape actuallyconnecting with a person that's
grieving.
It's almost like, hey, I wantto be here for you, but I really
want you to move to a place ofacceptance.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I want you to move through this so I'm not so
uncomfortable with this anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, and what you're saying on the other side of
like I'm sorry, I can see howpainful this is for you is
somebody actually connecting tothe griever to witness them.
You know, instead of thegriever feeling somewhat
isolated, witness them.
You know, instead of that, thegriever feeling somewhat
isolated and disconnect,disconnected in their pain and
with the shame of like, well,should I be feeling like this?
(18:28):
Am I, am I like a bummer?
Am I bringing down the vibe?
Like are people going to notwant to hang out with me?
And you know, when somebody isexperiencing something, really
what we all genuinely need is tobe witnessed in that, yeah,
it's a well-meaning.
People want to be in a spacewith you, but, goodness, to see
(18:49):
that pain and to witness thatpain, that can be really
uncomfortable for people.
So something just as as simplebut genuine as I'm sorry, I can
see you is so powerful, I think,for people when they're in that
place.
Yes, absolutely yeah.
What are your thoughts abouttimelines?
(19:09):
You know, because you knowpeople, I think, are fine,
understanding that grief can bea very intense experience, but
not everybody has the samecomfort with the timelines that
people may be in and their owngrief, and then timelines around
(19:30):
people being there to help,attune and attend to them in
that grief.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
No, I think that's interesting because I think that
people do put parameters on,like the timelines of how long
people are allowed to grieve, oryou know how long they're
allowed to do this or that afterthe loss of a loved one.
Right, like I can't, I can'tbelieve she's already doing that
, you know.
Like you know he's only been.
I can't believe she's datingagain.
(19:56):
He's only been gone for a year,right, been gone for a year.
Right, either side of that,yeah, right, and so it's just.
I think that is you know in, Iknow in the in the DSM, right,
so our diagnostic manual that weuse as social workers and LPCs,
so there is something calledprolonged grief and they used to
(20:18):
call it complicated grief and,and I believe it used to be only
six months and then theyextended it out to 12 months for
adults and I think it's sixmonths for minors.
But our children, but they saythat if you are experiencing
these like really intensesymptoms of grief, that we kind
(20:39):
of connect to that really acutephase of grief, such as like
when things just have transpiredand the physical symptoms, the
very emotional, all of thesethings are taking place, that if
it's taking place and this isjust like sort of the clinical
perspective, but if it's takingplace longer than a year and
(21:03):
those kinds of their perspectiveof timelines and what's
accepted and what's not, again,it's really going to depend on
(21:28):
the person, right?
And I've talked about this withmy clients too, just like the
way grief can look so different.
You know, I think in our life,like we have expectations right
Of like we, we understand, likewhat's normal and what's not, in
a sense of like we have ourparents and we have our
grandparents and we have oursiblings, you know, maybe or not
(21:53):
.
And then there's us, right, weknow our parents are roughly
however much older than we are.
We know our grandparents arehowever much older than we are.
We know our grandparents arehowever much older than we are,
right, so it is likely in ourtimeline of life that there will
be a time in our life that wewill live without our
grandparents, and that is justsomething that our brain
understands, that's something weinherently understand from.
(22:15):
You know, basically, once wekind of understand the concept
of death and the finality ofdeath and all of these things.
But I think that when we are ina situation where there is a
traumatic or unexpected deaththat takes place, that takes
place out of the naturalprogression of life and what
(22:36):
that timeline looks like.
That may take a lot longer forsomeone to cycle through grief
and there may be moreresurfacing that takes place in
in it.
You know, in versus a situationof if you have someone who
(22:57):
passed, who's lived a very longlife and has passed away
peacefully, that looks reallydifferently, right?
And then you also add on peoplewho have multiple losses, right
?
So we know that compoundedgrief is a thing, so you
experience one loss and youexperience another and it can
(23:19):
bring up feelings of theprevious grief and exacerbate
those symptoms, right?
So you know it's.
I do think that a lot of thesequestions do kind of circle back
to this answer of it is sounique to that person and their
experience and we have to becompassionate towards that that
(23:42):
they will go through their griefin the way that is unique to
them and there really is notimeline for that.
And you know, take the clinicalstuff out, that is just the
case.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So and I think you made a good point, like also how
that grief transpired, you know, and?
And what support system doesdoes someone really have in
order to process their grief?
You know, I, when I was in highschool, I lost my little sister
in a car accident, very tragic,very sudden.
We were only two years apart.
(24:19):
And you know, I didn't realizeit till years later, after I had
, you know, gone into therapy.
But at that time I couldn'tprocess my grief.
You know, my family wasgrieving, my parents were
grieving.
There wasn't reallyavailability for me to actually
grieve, you know, because therewas no support system.
And when I would be with myfriends, of course, like the
(24:41):
initial few weeks after theaccident, you know, they were
all there, they were, they weregrieving too.
But I remember, like coming,you know, talking to this poor
little boyfriend, you know,after about three months, and I
was still kind of trying toprocess it, and he was like
don't you think it's time tomove on?
And I remember being so shockedby that because I didn't even
(25:03):
feel like I had begun grieving.
And I think that that's alsosomething we can note that grief
can also be suppressed, andrepressed if it's not safe to
process your grief If you reallydon't have the support system,
the resources, the capacity.
And I think about a lot of youknow, children I've worked with
(25:24):
or adults who have had losses inchildhood and very complicated
after effects.
Sometimes they come to therapyand have not even begun to
process grief.
And so I think that's somethingto acknowledge is like not
everybody has the support systemand resources to do that work,
while meeting people are not.
(25:44):
Maybe they're not even there,you know, whether physically or
emotionally.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Right, Exactly they.
They may have people who arethere physically to support them
and do, but they are notemotionally available to support
that person in a way that theyneed at that time.
And that is huge right.
Because I think too, that kindof creates this cycle of feeling
uncomfortable in your grief andsort of trying to mask it.
(26:11):
And as we know, it doesn't justgo away, right, it goes
somewhere unless we kind ofprocess through it.
And even if we do, it continuesto come up, but when we repress
it and we're just not allowedthat space it can be really
damaging.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, it definitely can, and so I think that that
really resonates about howimportant it is to have
community or a support person orwhatnot.
So what suggestions or whatrecommendation would you make to
our listeners, to our viewers,whether they are somebody who's
going through the grievingprocess themselves or somebody
(26:54):
who is witnessing somebody goingthrough the grieving process
and just genuinely wants to showup in a way to support them,
whether through their words orsupport in other ways.
What would you recommend wouldbe the first steps to begin
processing and digestingsomething so complex, but in a
healthy way, right?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So I think that you know, like listening to this and
sort of like getting thisperspective is helpful, right
and um, I was able to write ablog that we published on our
website at rise, and that blogis specifically focused on
holding space and not jumping tofix the grief of the griever
(27:39):
right.
Like.
Viewing it from this lens ofthat, I understand that this
person that I am in connectionwith and in relationship with is
experiencing something that isvery complex and very deep, and
(27:59):
if I can just be here for themand hold space for them and
witness them and honor that painthat they're experiencing, that
is a gift in and of itself,which is, per our conversation
before, very hard to do.
Right, and you are allowed tofeel that in your body and say
(28:21):
this feels really uncomfortableto me.
My natural inclination is tofix right, like that's why, when
somebody passes away, youautomatically have three or four
lasagnas sitting on yourcounter, because I'm healing you
through my lasagna.
I don't know what to do, so I'mgoing to make food, right?
No, I, or I'm going to sendwhich, which are all really
(28:45):
wonderful, yes, absolutely yes,and.
I think that those things arewonderful too, but if this is
someone that you are inconnection with, who is like
really looking at you to be thissupportive person, I think that
letting yourself and allowingyourself to be that person who
just holds space for them,without trying to fix that, is
(29:10):
what is so needed for the personwho is grieving and all of
those other things, like youknow, like honoring the loved
one and you know, like maybecreating rituals and things like
that.
Those things can come right,but like they may not, just
understanding and appreciatingthat they may not be in the
space that they are there yetwhere they can sort of wrap
(29:34):
their mind around those thingsthat may not feel good to them,
and also being open and beingunderstanding to them just about
what their needs are and whothey are uniquely as an
individual.
I think that caring for someonewho's grieving is really
difficult, right, that's youpouring into someone who really
(30:01):
likely does not have thecapacity to give anything back.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So it's that sacrificial, like caring for
somebody when they can't carefor themselves.
Almost you know exactly and Ido.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I like to think too, just like I thought of this
example before, just like when,so like with little kids, like
when they're little, if they gooutside and they like skin their
knee right, it's like ournatural inclination just to like
scoop them up right and justsay, oh you.
So like with little kids, likewhen they're little, if they go
outside and they like skin theirknee right, it's like our
natural inclination just to likescoop them up Right and just
say, oh, you know how are youOkay, and let's take you inside,
let's fix it.
Let's like, let's clean off thewound.
(30:34):
Let's like put some ointment onit and a bandaid whether or not
that's supposed to do anymore,I don't know, but you know for
them.
And I think that's what we wantto be able to do with grief,
right and like we want that sobadly.
But you know that that justisn't how this type of situation
(30:56):
is is fixed, you know what Imean.
It's not just fixable, justlike that Right.
It's not just like it is awound, but it's not a wound that
we can tangibly fix right away.
And when we are caring forsomeone who is grieving, we have
to be, you know, aware of howwe are taking care of ourselves
(31:17):
right and we talked about thisbefore we started and really
encouraging someone to, you know, get the help that they need.
Right, because for some peoplethey may not be comfortable, you
know, going to therapy ortalking to someone and being
someone who feels safe for themto talk to that about, about
(31:38):
what it is that they might befearful of or what their
concerns are, or you know whatthat might look like and sort of
working that out with them,like if there's any barriers to
care there.
And I think that you know takinga temp check for yourself on
your own resources, because youknow we talked too about
compassion, fatigue andessentially what that is is like
(31:58):
you get to the point where youlack empathy, right, because you
are pouring, pouring, pouringfrom an empty cup and you are no
longer having the capacity to,you know, just continue to give.
So I think, before it gets tothat point because it can, um,
being in mental health, weunderstand that as well that you
(32:19):
are making sure your resourcesare online right, like you are
getting the support that youneed, you are sleeping well, you
are eating well and you arenourishing your body and giving
yourself what you need in orderto be the support to that person
.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, and I think, I think that's the other side of
the spectrum of whelming people,may you know, on one side they
might be somewhat dismissivebecause they're uncomfortable
with it and on the other side ofit they might be a little too
over-functioning and to thepoint of their own, you know,
burnout, or their own fatigue,because you know they're almost
(32:56):
not creating space for theperson grieving to go seek that
support in the places and spacesthat can be a container for
them.
And I know we talked about likepeer community and really going
to a deeply rooted, you knowgrief, focused therapist that
you know those are places thatcan really be the container for
(33:19):
somebody to process through this.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, and to feel safe, right, and we talked about
that shared experience and howimportant that can be.
And I know in my own experienceof grief, it wasn't until I met
other people who hadexperienced what I experienced,
and I'll never forget the firsttime I sat down in this group I
was like, wow, I feel seen andunderstood in a way that I have
(33:45):
been not even knowing that Iwanted until I got here and and
I just it's, it's, it's, therereally is something to being
like.
Yeah, I get it, I get it, I seeyou and I get how painful that
is.
And, although our experiencesare not exactly the same, we are
(34:06):
able to connect and understandeach other in a way that you
know others might not be able to, and and as human beings, we we
seek that kind of connectionand commonality anyway, right,
but in this very unique, intenseexperience it can be very, very
helpful.
So definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
And I think something you pointed out was you know
earlier was that oftentimes, ifwe're not in community that
hasn't had that same sharedexperience, sometimes our
identity becomes grief relatedright Like I know an experience
was like since none of myfriends had experienced that
before, there was almost likeyou know, she's the one who lost
her sister.
She's like, oh okay, that'sovershadowing like just wanting
(34:51):
to genuinely go out and meet newpeople and stuff.
So I think in those peercommunities you kind of get to
be yourself again.
Yeah.
You know, you get to beprocessing the grief.
Processing the grief versus aloved one who lost their person,
you know Right.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Absolutely no.
I think that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Well, this has been just a very, I think, beautiful
conversation and Taylor doesn'tknow this, but before we started
recording she told me that shesaw there was a cardinal outside
her window and we you knowthose of you that don't know
cardinals are kind of a symbolof our loved ones coming to kind
(35:34):
of comfort us and let us knowthat the veil between the here
and there is really not thatthick and, interestingly enough,
while we were recording, I havea window right over here to my
left and a cardinal fluttered upto the window twice.
So very interesting little playout in our conversation.
So we really appreciateeverybody listening, everybody
(35:59):
watching and those that are hereand those that are not.
Yes, absolutely Thank you, andI would love to put a link
Taylor to your blog so everybodylistening know that I'll be
putting her bio in thedescription.
There will also be kind of likea timeline of everything that
was talked about in this.
Any socials that Taylor wants toshare, where you can find her.
(36:22):
If you're looking to work witha therapist around this topic or
any of the other topics thatTaylor really is just extremely
proficient in, please click onthat and we'd be happy to set
you up with her, but we'll alsoput a link to her blog, because
it was really beautifullywritten and just a really great
example of how to be in thisspace with people.
(36:42):
So thanks again for joining,taylor.
It was so lovely to have you onhere.
I can't wait to have you on formany more.
All right, thank you everyonefor listening and we'll see you
next time.
Bye, bye.
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