May 30, 2025 • 44 mins
Losing a beloved pet is terrifying—but knowing what to do immediately can make all the difference. In this episode of Animal Posse, we sit down with Carmen Brothers of Professional Pet Trackers to explore the ins and outs of finding lost pets, using expert tracking methods, and avoiding common mistakes that delay recovery.
What You’ll Learn:
The first critical steps when a pet goes missing
How scent trails help locate lost animals
Real-life rescue stories from professional tracking cases
Whether you're a pet owner, animal rescuer, or just want to be prepared, this episode is a must-listen!
Learn more about Carmen’s work at Professional Pet Trackers
#LostPetHelp #FindMyPet #MissingPets #AnimalRescue #PetSafety #AnimalPossePodcast #RescueStories
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dixie (00:02):
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Today's guest is Carmen Brotherswith Professional Pet Trackers,
and we are gonna discuss lost Pets.
Hi, Carmen.
How are you?
Carmen (00:20):
I'm good, thank you.
Dixie (00:21):
I am excited to speak with you about Lost Pets.
That's a passion of mine.
Can you share your story behind thefounding of Professional Pet Trackers
and how you got started doing this?
Carmen (00:34):
Sure.
So I was volunteering with a rescue.
I.
Back in, it's been solong 20 10, 20 11 ish.
And they lost a dog.
And I got into the logistics of theflyers and the, don't call your dog
and everything that goes into loss ofbehavior and would a cover a lost dog?
And it just spiraled from there.
(00:56):
I became one of the two lost dogcoordinators for City Dogs Rescue
in Washington, DC and, obviously webought in a canine tracker and that
kind of thing, and it just grabbed meand I just started going from there.
I guess probably in 20 15, 2016 ish, I started running a
tracking dog volunteering witha nonprofit out of Baltimore.
(01:20):
Then come 2017, I was approached byNational Geographic to do a show like
a docuseries on tracking lost pets.
And the caveat was that I wouldhave to quit my normal full-time
job with, the stability and all thatgood stuff and benefits and whatnot.
Adults like to have and filmfull-time for roughly a year and
(01:41):
kind of see where that took me.
So I, I did and I never went back.
Dixie (01:47):
That's a very interesting story.
Carmen (01:49):
It's a little different.
Dixie (01:50):
It is.
Definitely.
When you were doing the Lost Pets withthe rescue, can you explain how that
was different between what you didthen and then what you're doing now?
Carmen (02:02):
So what I did then was essentially.
I guess almost delegate more, right?
Like I would come up with a flyerand figure out where to post flyers
and have volunteers, figure out whereto send volunteers to post flyers.
Flyering is still probably the number oneway to get pets home because even with a
canine tracker, you still need sightings.
To go to the next phase,which would be trapping.
(02:24):
And so I was, again, putting up, gettingflyers together, hanging 'em up to
volunteers and sending groups in differentplaces of DC to get flyers up to.
And then when we brought in a caninetracker who I had, gone online and
found, she was able to narrow downthat search areas dramatically.
And guide us more on the lostpet behavior side of things.
(02:44):
The whole lost pet circle and they tendto stay near water and, again, they're
most active between desk and dawn.
Just some things that normallypeople don't know unless
they've been through it before.
And so working with her and then havingseveral other lost dogs follow that while
I was still volunteering with City Dogs.
City Dogs Rescue in dc we would bringher back in and put all those actions
(03:06):
into place and use all the different,all the different systems we could.
To gather data per se, to figure outwhere, Maddie or whomever had gone.
And then once we had a sighting or we hada good area to put, a camera and a trap
at, we would go from there and do that.
And then essentiallylive trap your lost pet.
(03:26):
So that way we.
Bring them to us on their terms, right?
If they're in a place that theyfeel safe, I'd rather 'em stay there
in that place than have a bunch ofsearch parties or, even a tracking
dog come barely through that areaand unintentionally move your pet.
Dixie (03:42):
What are some of the most common misconceptions people
have about finding a lost pet?
Carmen (03:47):
And again I get where it comes from.
It's human instinct, right?
Your dog fluffy goes missing and you seeyour dog fluffy running down the road.
What are you gonna do?
You're out, there goes my dog, I'mgonna go chase my dog and call my dog
because at home, fluffy comes barelyinto your lap when you're running
around or when you're calling him.
But once a pet's been out for a littlewhile, they go into what they call
flight mode, meaning they no longerassociate you with sight or sound.
(04:10):
It's all about scent.
Everything to them is predatory, right?
So what works at home is no longera thing because they need to be able
to get close enough to mom or dador whomever to be able to smell them
for that switch to flip back andrealize, wait a minute, that's mom.
That's my person, and approach you.
But while they're out on theirown, again, everything's predatory.
(04:34):
And if you think about it, what dopredators do when they're stalking prey?
They're standing upright.
They're making direct eyecontact and moving towards you.
So those are the three things that wesay you absolutely do not want to do.
You wanna get down on the ground youwant, don't wanna make direct eye contact,
and you need to let them approach you.
And it's a waiting game.
I've seen it take five minutes.
(04:56):
I've also seen it take about seven hours.
Dixie (05:00):
Would that be the same with cats as it is with dogs?
Carmen (05:05):
Cats are a little different.
Cats are actually, catsare a little harder.
While they don't actually go as farthey tend to not, you don't get the
sightings called in that you wouldwith the German Shepherd because
cats are gonna stay, close to a houseor under bushes and slink around.
And then a lot of times people will seeyour cat and they even see the flyers.
(05:25):
They're gonna assume that it's anoutdoor cat or it's a feral cat
or community cat and what haveyou, and not necessarily call you.
So getting the sightings for cats is just,again, it's a whole process in itself.
And I find people, that call in sightingsfor lost cats are actually, trying, right?
But ideally they take a picturewhen they see the cat and text it
(05:47):
to the number on the flyer because.
No one knows their cat, like mom anddad, like there's, a tuxedo cat out
in Richmond and how many tuxedo catsdo you think there are in Richmond?
And so people will be like, oh,that's a black and white cat.
That must be, our missing cat.
And we have yet to get a picture.
But I can tell you the one area we'refocused on, there's probably about eight
tuxedo cats in that area that are notthe one and only we're looking for.
(06:11):
So without that picture orwithout a sent dog to verify, it's
significantly harder to determineif that's actually the missing pet.
Or is it just, the neighbor's catthat's out and about during the day?
Dixie (06:22):
I see that all the time.
I do run some lost pets groups,and if it's a tabby cat, oh, that's
the tabby cat that's missing.
And it's no.
Clearly it's a totallydifferent tabby cat.
Carmen (06:33):
Or sometimes we'll actually get the picture and we're looking for
like a black cat and we get a pictureof a Persian, and I'm like, huh.
Thanks for calling.
However, and again, gettingsightings on cats is a struggle.
The struggle is real.
And so the fact that they're actuallytaking the time to take the picture,
obviously I'm all about that.
Yay.
Thank you so much.
The fact it's the wrong cat andit's the totally wrong color.
(06:55):
Yay.
Okay.
But at least you got the picture,so you know, we're getting there.
It's a process.
Dixie (07:01):
Absolutely.
In your experience, what are themost crucial first steps a pet
owner should take immediately afterrealizing their pet is missing?
Carmen (07:12):
So if you're within the first, hour or two, right?
Again, no chasing.
I would say the first hour two, sure.
Call your dog like younormally would at home.
By no means am I saying get a megaphoneout there because I've seen people do
that and that's really never a good idea.
But ideally, you're gonna get somethingwith the owner scent out outside
to wherever you last saw your dog.
(07:32):
If you can get some kind of stinkyfood, whether it be hamburgers,
bacon, throw something in some liquidsmoke and get it to the wood liner or
whatnot, that would be great as well.
And then start working on a flyer.
I'd say within the first 24 hours.
Ideally, you have roughly anywherefrom a hundred to 150 flyers
posted throughout the area.
And then make sure you're, updating yoursocial media, whether that be next door.
(07:55):
I find that the Neighbors by Ring appis really useful, and a lot of people
don't think of that one because they'relike, oh, I don't have a ring product.
I can't post on there.
Actually, you don't need a ringproduct to create a ring account.
You just put the addressin and you can upload it to
their, animal activity section.
And that way we're utilizing thepeople in the neighborhood who
already have cameras out to let'ssee what they get on their camera.
(08:19):
Your dog could be running up and downthe street at three in the morning,
but no one's there to see 'em.
But the ring cameras won't pick it up.
Dixie (08:26):
Yeah, I didn't know that.
I thought you had to havea subscription in order to
Carmen (08:28):
A ring product.
Dixie (08:29):
Yeah.
Carmen (08:29):
No Ring product needed to create the account and, download
the app and just put it out there.
Dixie (08:34):
Yeah, that's some great advice.
As far as the scents, I alwayshear different things about.
Items that you should be puttingoutside because I've heard that
certain items that you put outsidecould be attracting wildlife that
might not be necessarily so good.
So is that true?
Carmen (08:53):
You're not gonna attract anything from 22 miles away.
Anything that is going to show up on yourcamera for the food, it's already there.
It's just we're probably notpaying such close attention to it.
So generally, again, the best way toattract your dog home is number one,
the owner scent paired with, bacon orso any, even if you don't have food,
just the liquid smoke in a spray bottleand kinda spray the area down so it
(09:17):
smells like the barbecue is gonna help.
And I strongly recommend a cameragoing on wherever you're trying
to get your dog to come back to.
Because if he comes backat two in the morning.
You're not there to see it.
You know the food's gonna begone, but we're gonna have
no idea what ate the food.
Was it Freddie the Fox,or was it, was it the dog?
(09:39):
So a camera is also a critical thing, andthese days they're not super expensive.
You can get a good cellulartrail camera on Amazon for $50.
Dixie (09:51):
Would you suggest more of a trail camera type thing
versus I guess one of the littleoutdoor products that you can get?
Carmen (09:58):
If you're at home, either works because you're gonna
hopefully have access to wifi.
But if you're like, for instance todayI was tracking a cat at the Virginia
Arboretum, which there's no wifi, soa trail camera that comes with its
own data plan is much more useful.
Sometimes People will
Put like flour down to try toget paw prints and what have you,
Dixie (10:19):
uhhuh.
Carmen (10:20):
But I found that the flour, it can be a quick go-to, but one little, wind
gust or too many foxes or or if you'relooking for a cat in particular, who's to
say how many cats you have in that area,
Dixie (10:30):
Anything else that you could use in addition to that or in place of that?
Carmen (10:35):
In place of the flour?
You could try some sand.
Which compacts down a little, right?
Better so that the random gust of wind isnot gonna necessarily screw that all up.
But again, a picture isworth a thousand words.
The cameras are really a kind of ideal,
The sand's really not even needed.
Because we're gonna get a picture.
Ideally, is it our cat?
You know the cat Rex we're looking for?
(10:55):
Or is it gonna be Ricky the raccoon?
We're gonna have a picture either way.
Dixie (11:00):
As far as placing the camera, should you be placing it out of the
door You think that they went out of?
Carmen (11:07):
It depends on where you're at.
If you're in New York City orsomething like that, it's gonna be
strategically, significantly harder.
To find a good place to put that camera.
But if you're, in Virginia, forinstance, about where I am, then if
your dog ran out the back door of thefront door and into the woods, I'd
place it more facing the wood line.
Dixie (11:25):
Now, what about the average time a it takes to find a lost pet?
Is there an average time?
Carmen (11:32):
It
depends on the pet and the terrain andthe circumstances, oddly enough, cats
can take a little longer than dogs do.
Just again, because you're notgetting the sightings as quickly as
you would be for the tabby cat asyou would be for the German Shepherd.
It depends on if, do they go missingfrom someplace other than home
or do they go missing from home?
Are they missing in a statepark or are they missing from,
(11:54):
the groomers type of thing.
I would say on average for a dog,anywhere from one to four weeks.
And for a cat, for an indoor onlycat, I would say one to three weeks.
As long as they're missing fromhome and haven't been displaced.
For instance, the cat I dotoday at the Arboretum, they're
(12:14):
what, 45 minutes from home.
He's an indoor only cat who'snow been displaced totally out
of his elements into the wild.
And the thing with this cat isthat number one, there's gonna be
nobody there to see them, right?
Because it's the arboretum.
So the odds of somebody seeing a catduring the day when they're walking
around or so to none, he's probablygonna be most active at night.
(12:34):
So we do have a couple camerasplaced, but we're also gonna be
competing with anything that Stanleyis going to catch on his own.
We're just hoping that my mackerel andsardines is way more attractive than, any
kind of birds or chipmunks or whateverhe may be finding to eat by himself.
Dixie (12:52):
For the lost cats, and let's say indoor only cats i'm in agreement
of course with the whole scent thing.
So I always tell people if it's anindoor only cat, chances are that
cat is very close by just hidingsomewhere in a really safe hiding spot.
And I always tell people to justcrack open their front door.
(13:14):
And I find like a lot of the timesat when they do that, they'll either
start seeing the cat or the cat evensometimes runs back in the house.
Carmen (13:22):
And I do the same thing.
And I've had it work a lot actually,even after a week or two, sometimes the
cat finds its way home and comes rightback into the window that it left from.
Dixie (13:33):
Yeah.
And I found that out by accident actually.
Like I always heard the thing aboutputting something on your porch,
say your shoes or dirty laundryso that they could smell it.
When my cat got out we just happened toopen the front door and when we opened
the front door, like within like maybefive minutes, he ran right back in.
Carmen (13:53):
Oh, that's perfect.
Dixie (13:54):
At that time, that's when I realized, oh leaving the front door open.
I think that's actually like a thing,because cat behavior is they go out there,
they find someplace to hide and they'rejust hiding, looking around, waiting.
I know people always say, go out there,shake the treat jars and stuff like that.
My experience with cats is
you just have to let 'em alone and let'em come to you opening the door, and
(14:16):
a lot of the times they run back in.
Carmen (14:19):
I agree.
And the thing with lost pets thata lot of people don't understand
for say, and again, 'cause itgoes against, human nature, right?
Once you start searching actively for alost pet, like literally beating bushes
and stuff like that, or if everybodygoes tromping through the woods and
that kind of thing, you actually run therisk of moving your pet and pushing your
(14:39):
pet out of that immediate area, right?
Because.
Again, they're somewhere that,where they feel safe and whatnot.
As soon as you invade that space,they are not taking the time to
realize, oh wait, that's mom.
They're just saying Uhoh.
Something's here.
Predator.
Predator, run.
And so they, they move.
And then once they associate thatarea with fear, they're actually
less likely to return to thatarea than they would have before.
Dixie (15:03):
That makes a lot of sense.
It really does.
Carmen (15:04):
And so a lot of times on the trapping side of things, when you'll
see trappers like, please don't chase,please don't chase, please don't chase.
And unfortunately, everybodythinks that they can go get the
dog or the cat or whatnot, andthey wanna play the hero card.
And literally it's like pulling teeth,trying to get people to stay away
and don't chase, just let the dog be.
But again, once you chase that dog.
All the trapping effortsstart from scratch again.
(15:26):
'cause now they've shifted areas, right?
So now we have to find the new areaand we have to, sometimes recondition
for the trapping portion of it.
And it just makes it somuch more challenging.
Dixie (15:35):
You did mention that it is harder to do cats because people will see a
cat outside and when they see the catoutside, they automatically assume it's
an outside cat or an inside outside cat.
So it's not lost.
And I see that a lot as well.
So are there any tips you can givepeople that if they see a cat,
which might indicate that cat isactually a lost cat, that may be an
(15:57):
indoor only cat or a displaced cat?
Carmen (16:00):
Hopefully
the goal would be for them tosee, oh look, lost cat flyer.
Oh, wait a minute, here'sa cat and lost cat flyer.
So it really drives that point home.
I would say that, if they see a cat takea picture of the cat because if they
don't know that cat the flyers might goup tomorrow or the following day, but
(16:20):
then they can say, oh, wait a minute.
I saw this cat here on,Thursday type of thing.
Or if they are, rescue people andwhat have you, they can obviously
go on Facebook and search kindof their local lost pet pages.
I realize a lot of people these days aresomewhat self-absorbed, so that's asking
a lot, which is why I say, maybe justtake a picture and see if the flyers
(16:40):
pop up in a day or two, type of thing.
Dixie (16:42):
Okay, great advice.
I,
Carmen (16:44):
the flyers are just a critical thing, right?
Because without the flyers even,even in like the Northern Virginia
area for instance, you'll see anoff leash dog who's just, people
let them roam type of thing.
So it could really be the neighbor's dog,but could it be a lost dog also maybe, and
you don't see the flyers or what have you.
And so it's, the flyers makeeverybody in that community aware.
And the flyers are likely themost tedious process of all.
(17:08):
And it's what I get the most pushbackon, is getting the flyers up to
the areas they need to be up at.
Having the, an effective flyer is alsosuper important sometimes, and some of,
these, social media platforms or whatever,will, just design a flyer for you.
Okay, great.
I don't need to know what Fluffy eatsevery night for dinner and what time he
eats and his favorite color and does hedo this and that, and blah, blah, blah.
(17:29):
All I need is Lost dog or lost cat.
Big picture.
Do not chase big phone number.
That's it.
I don't even want the name on there.
If somebody's walking around and they'relike out for their afternoon jog, right?
And you see all these flyers saying,lost dog, fluffy, what's your
gut instinct telling you to do?
Oh wait, that's a dog fluffy.
And you start calling for thedog, and that then scares the dog
(17:52):
and pushes the dog further away.
But if they don't know the name, whataction item do they have left to do?
Okay, great.
They'll take a picture and thatway they can text it to the number.
Dixie (18:02):
That's some good advice.
'cause I do see flyers too, that youactually have to stop and read 'em,
or it's it'll be so much wordingin a very tiny little photo of an
animal, and it's make that bigger.
Carmen (18:13):
And at that point,
again, who's actually gonna stop tonecessarily, other than then pet people or
rescue people, your average person who'scoming home from work or just picking kids
up from school or whatever, they're notstopping to take a picture of that flyer.
They don't even know is it, are theyadvertising a yard sale where they're
gonna have, stuffed pets for sale?
Who knows?
So if it's not super clear.
(18:34):
By the time I get there, I redid theflyer for them and then I'm so not
popular when I'm like, Hey, let's goreplace all of these type of thing.
I encourage people to get flyersup to the entrance and exits of
churches because that's a differentdemographic of people, right?
They're not on Facebook.
They're not on social media,and if they are out driving,
they might not be stopping andseeing what's on the stop sign.
(18:55):
They're just trying to get frompoint A to B, but they go to church.
Dixie (18:59):
Great advice.
When should people call in aprofessional pet tracker like you?
Carmen (19:05):
It probably depends, for instance, when people call me, if they've had a lot
of the sightings and they don't know whatto do or where to turn or how to get,
fluffy home, I'm relatively well networkedto whereas I can get them in touch with
a qualified trapper for their area.
I just got back from Maine.
I was in New Hampshire, Vermont, andthen New York on my way home to Virginia.
(19:27):
So I was gone like, what?
Nine days?
I'm not.
In one location for long enough toactually assist with the trapping.
I can, obviously, virtually consultand whatnot like the cats for instance.
I can walk people how totrap cats all day long.
But for the dogs, again, that's likea five, $600 very large trap that you
need to acquire and get out, and it justhelps to have somebody who's physically
(19:49):
there, boots on the ground because.
A dog can say, Nope, I don'twanna do the kennel trap.
I, and you have to switchit to a Missy trap.
I had one dog out in King George,Virginia for 500 and some odd days.
We tracked once we had that dogon camera almost every other night
until we started switching up traps.
'cause she wouldn't go into box trap.
We tried a Missy Trap.
We would build up panel by panel.
(20:10):
She had nothing to do with that.
So we actually had to havemy friend Kevin drive up from
North Carolina with a drop net.
Meaning we had to clear utilities andget the waterline cleared and all of
that good stuff and put that up andthen condition her to go under that.
And it took a while.
So again, it's, having a qualifiedtrapper in your area is a big plus,
(20:33):
or sometimes somebody who at least,you know, within an hour who can
drive and help you with equipment.
Even if I could, I drivea Toyota Highlander.
I had a four runner before I caneither bring tracking dogs or a trap.
And I can pretty much guarantee themajority of the time I'm called in
and actually physically go somewhere.
They're gonna want thetracking dogs and not the trap.
Dixie (20:54):
The net that you were talking about, does that just go up and then
just fall directly on top of the dog?
Is that how that works?
Carmen (21:01):
Yeah, it's like almost a soccer field size net.
Like a soccer, like a goal?
Type of net.
And it goes on top of these polesand it's released by magnets.
And it's, you have a live camerafrom different angles on the dog.
'cause you gotta be there quick.
Because you don't wantthe dog to hurt himself.
But yes, that's essentially what it is.
Now, some dogs won't enter, won't walkthrough thresholds no matter how big.
(21:22):
It's just a thing.
So when the Missy Trap won'twork, you're left huh, okay.
Now what?
And so then we typically go to a drop net.
Dixie (21:33):
That's interesting.
So can you tell us a littlebit about your tracking dogs?
Carmen (21:39):
Sure.
So I'm gonna say I have 3.5.
, The dog I started with magic.
She's a yellow lab and she'sliving her best life of
retirement with my mom right now.
She's probably 12 ish, I would say.
And I'll still take around tolike local cat stuff or just, like
a hide and seek type of thing.
She still loves the game, butshe has problems getting in and
outta the back of the truck.
(22:00):
It's harder on her hips and whatnot.
Then I have a German Shepherdnamed Rose who is six.
I have a, and this is whatkind of gets people every time.
I have a rat terrier named Trix,who is five, and she's phenomenal.
She's my heart surface girl.
She's, so she's 15 pounds.
So she's little.
She's good for the cats 'causeshe can get into places that,
(22:23):
my shepherd and my labs cannot.
And then my newest additionis Finley and he will be two
in July and he's a black lab.
Dixie (22:32):
How does that process work with using the tracking dogs?
Can you tell us how they goout and actually find the pets?
Carmen (22:40):
So it's important to remember that, again, I'm not
necessarily walking up on your dog.
And while it has happened, I'dsay I've had maybe, I don't
know, 12 to 15 since I started.
We call them walkup finds.
And at 12 to 15 I've probably hadseven to eight like captures from
being out on the track, if you will.
(23:01):
We take a scent item, whether that be abed, a blanket, harness a sweater, I've
used the dog's, toothbrush, whatever.
And then we literally,track your lost pet.
So with that said, we're methodicallychasing essentially, right?
So once my dogs start to giveme a proximity alert, depending
on where we're at and what'sgoing on, I generally pull back.
(23:23):
We were in Maine, where were we?
It was Corinth, Maine, about a week ago.
And it was actually with Finleyand I was partnering with a thermal
drone operator up there, which hasa lot of benefits to it as well.
Because we were tracking and I was justtelling the owner, Christie, I'm like,
you'll notice we're moving faster.
(23:43):
I was like, the sun's gettingstronger and stronger.
And then, Rob came over theradio and was like, Hey, I've got
Mavis 300 feet in front of you.
So again, that's amazinginformation to have, right?
So that way we were able toknow what we were walking
into before we walked into it.
So I had, I put Finley back up in the car.
We coached Christie on calming signals.
I gave her some rotisserie chickenin a bag, a slip lead, and sent her,
(24:07):
literally directed her while havingher on FaceTime and on the radio
with the drone as to where Mavis was.
She sat there probably, Idon't know, she probably 45
minutes to an hour in the rain.
Trying to use calmingsignals and what have you.
And Mavis moved, bolted right past her.
Didn't even take a second togive it a chance to smell.
Wait a minute, that's mom.
(24:28):
So as disheartening as that is to have herrun right past you, we, I mean there was
a lot of important things that day, right?
Like number one, Mavis mom goteyes on Mavis for the first time.
So there's a great big relief there.
'cause essentially that's proof of life.
And I can tell you all day longwe're getting sightings or whatever.
But until you actuallyput eyes on your dog.
It's harder to, it's harderfor that relief to sit in.
(24:50):
Secondly, now we know where we'retrapping and putting cameras up at.
And so after that we called itfor the tracking because we're
methodically chasing, right?
And I don't wanna continue tochase and scare her from the area.
So let's go to the trapping.
Let's get the cameras out in thetrap and see where we go with that.
And we have, maybe this might be alittle bit of a more challenging.
(25:11):
Trap, if you will.
She seems to have no desire to goin this box trap, no matter what
food I put in it, whether it's ham,beef, liver, tripe, barbecue, bacon,
she wants nothing to do with it.
So we're looking at probably havingto get a Missy trap up there for her.
So is she still out on the run then?
(25:31):
We get her on camera every night.
She's still in the same location.
She just has no desireto go in this box trap.
And it's one of the sixfoot extra large ones.
And so it's not a size thing.
I think it's just the beingcontained thing, right?
So now we're gonna startconditioning for a Missy.
I'm gonna a trap and startputting the kennel panels up and
making sure, we'll probably doit a little slower than typical.
(25:53):
We'll probably startwith the three panels.
And does she come back and eat still?
Okay.
Yes.
Great.
Let's do the next three.
Okay.
She's still there.
Awesome.
Let's finish it up and go from there.
Dixie (26:03):
I think there two is a misconception with the
tracking dogs, because I see.
People sometimes commenting, oh,I'm gonna get a tracking dog.
And I think that they think that,oh, they're gonna get a tracking dog.
Carmen (26:14):
I'm gonna walk
up and hand you your pet.
Dixie (26:15):
That's what I was gonna say.
There is a process to it.
So you get the tracking dog
Carmen (26:20):
oh yes.
Dixie (26:21):
You get the tracking dog.
You don't wanna chase the dog.
So then at that point you have to trap it.
Carmen (26:26):
Correct.
Now the drones are a relativelynew thing with lost pets, and it's
an amazing, it's amazing, right?
People have to understand that.
Let's say you have a newdog, new rescue dog, right?
And you've had the dog two hoursputting a drone up in the air.
While yes, you might get eyeson the dog, which is amazing.
Even like the calming signals willlikely not work at that point.
'cause this dog does not know you.
(26:47):
This dog came from, Texas andyou're in, you're in Massachusetts,
right?
There's nothing familiar.
So even having, the drone say,yes, here's the coordinates.
I'm gonna walk you in,and so forth and so on.
Could it work?
Okay, sure.
Is it likely to work, eh.
Maybe, if you've got a little bit ofbackground on the dog, was it an owner
surrender or was it out on the streetsof Texas by himself for, two years?
(27:08):
The dog who's been on the streetfor two years is gonna be much less
likely to trust anybody or anything.
I.
You're probably gonna wanna domore trapping than like a common
signals hand capture approach.
And I don't think people realize that, ifa drone goes up, yes, it can be immediate
gratification, which is remarkable.
And that's what everybody wants.
If the drone goes up and sees nothingyou're still left with nothing,
(27:30):
You don't have a direction of travel.
You have, nothing to go off of per se.
And that doesn't necessarily mean yourdog's not in that area of the drone
flew, but could your dog be under,something or hidden somehow in a way
that, that the thermal is not picking up?
Possibly.
But again, you're not gonna knowthat the thermal drones offer that
immediate gratification result, whereasa tracking dog odds are you're gonna
(27:55):
have to do a little bit of work.
It's gonna be the flyers and thefeeding stations, and it's gonna
be, there's, there needs to besome effort put forth by the owner,
It's not necessarily this quickturnaround type, one done, here's Carmen
great and I'm showing up with my leashor my carrier and my whatever, and
my harness, and let's go get my dog.
And I've shown up and had peoplethink that no matter how many times
you tell them or no many, how manytimes you reiterated it in any kind
(28:15):
of contract or anything, they stillhave that stuck in their mind.
I still try to break it down yes, couldthat happen And that would be amazing.
Is it likely not really.
Again, your dog's gonna sense me andmy dog coming into whatever little
bubble of safety they've created forthemselves way before we get eyes on 'em.
Dixie (28:36):
With a thermal drone , do you have to worry about picking up other
animals that might not be yours?
Carmen (28:42):
Of course, yes.
But ideally, at least the droneoperators I've worked with can
tell me, oh, is that a coyote?
Yes.
Is it a rabbit?
Yes, it does.
A squirrel also.
Yes.
We managed to get several porcupinesin a tree while we were in Maine.
So they can tell us if it's,our target animal or not.
And with it.
That also helps me and my dogs becauseI don't really wanna walk into the
(29:06):
coyote den, if there's a coyote 300feet to my right, I'd like to know
that before I walk a lot type of thing.
Dixie (29:12):
So something else that I see a lot of is people wanting to use the
thermal drones in like urban areas.
Do people use them or is that gonnabe like almost pointless because
you're gonna pick up so manyother dogs or so many other cats.
Carmen (29:28):
A thermal drone for a cat for starters is likely not the best bet
anyways because your cat's probably hidingunderneath a porch or a shed or something
along those lines to whereas a thermalslikely not going to pick it up anyways.
Could it maybe, but that's a hail Mary.
As far as the open areas go.
A lot of the more populated areas.
For instance, a lot of the areas rightaround DC or Chicago and a hundred
(29:50):
percent New York City are no fly zones.
So you're not gonna be able to geta thermal drone up there anyways.
Any kinda military base and whathave you, it's gonna be no fly zones
and you can apply for the exemptionto get a drone up, but that's gonna
also take you three to four days.
And there's no guarantee.
And so again, it's, the immediategratification sounds amazing.
When you hear it, and I also wouldlike to be like, sure, whatever.
(30:13):
Not a problem.
Come on.
1:00 AM whatever time youneed to be here, let's do it.
But people just need to take asecond and realize, okay, so if
I don't see my dog now, what?
Whereas at least if you're pairingthe tracking dog in the drone,
the tracking dog's still gonnagive you that direction of travel.
You're still gonna have an actionplan on which way the dog went
and where the dog will likely gonext based on lost pet behavior.
(30:34):
Ideally, and at least the way I workthings, is that once I get an area,
I actually go outside of that areaand create a perimeter of what I call
negatives or locations with no scent.
Just doubling down on the fact Ididn't miss a turn, and making sure
that the area I have is accurate.
Because again, at the end of theday, your dog can miss a turn.
, But all of my negatives I tell peopleare also probable positives, meaning
(30:57):
likely they passive travel, so youranimal's gonna continue to move.
Just 'cause he's not here right now doesnot mean he won't be here in two days.
And so it helps them understandthe process of where your dog's
gonna go next type of thing.
Dixie (31:14):
For people who aren't using the tracking dogs and
aren't using the thermal drones
Carmen (31:19):
FLYER FLYER FLYER
Dixie (31:21):
But as far
as distance because I willsee something where, people
are like, oh, my dog was lost.
In this general area, but dogs can justkeep running to get into another area.
The cats can hitch a ride or catscan get picked up and get dumped.
As far as travel goes, I guessfor a dog, for an animal that's
(31:44):
just gonna be running, how farcan a dog travel in one day?
Carmen (31:49):
So typically a dog will go three to five miles a day.
Ideally that's a circle or a triangle.
There's some kind of pattern and orshape to where they're going with
that said, if they get on powerlines, train tracks, creek beds, that
kind of thing, that can push themsignificantly further out, like almost
in a straight line, significantly faster.
(32:11):
I generally tell people if they havethe flyers up for that three to five
mile radius, let's, you know it's been48 hours with no sightings or anything,
let's go another three miles out.
Then if you wait another, 48 hours stillnothing, let's go another three miles
out because any of those things, it'slike a little doggy highway, right?
They can hop on those power linesand no one's gonna see them and they
(32:32):
can go straight for quite some time.
Maybe popping off here and there, orneighborhoods for like trash night
or something exciting like that.
But I had, I've had dogsgo 44 miles in 13 days.
On power lines.
I had now, given this wasn'tpower lines, but I did have an
Alaskan sled dog that had justretired, go 27 miles in four days.
(32:53):
But again, that's kinda whatthat dog was bred to do, right?
There was no denying thatit was gonna be a runner.
It just, again, knowing your dog'spersonality and the breed especially
also helps, obviously the Alaskan sleddogs are bred to, to run in significant
distances significantly quickly.
I find your huskies and yourshepherds can also be runners.
(33:14):
The whippets and greyhounds also runners.
I find that boxers tend to staycloser and or circle back at some
point in time, more so than someof the other breeds, oddly enough.
The smaller dogs, people like to discountthem thinking they're not gonna go
super far, but they're the spunky onesthat have that, have that energy and
they'll up and go in a heartbeat too.
Dixie (33:35):
Yeah, and I know people also tend to lose hope like after a week
or so and they tend to give up.
I always tell people one of the thingsthat you shouldn't do is give up hope.
I know by me there was a situationwhere somebody's cat got out
their carrier broke as they werebringing them into a vet clinic.
And it happened to be the vet clinic wascaddy corner to the back of my business.
(33:56):
So I put a trap out just hopingthat I might catch the cat.
I caught the cat, it took me threemonths, but I did catch the cat.
Carmen (34:06):
And that's not abnormal.
I am actually working on a casewhere that exact same thing happened.
And the Pennsylvania, New Yorkborder, and it's been, I think
we're going on six weeks now.
We had one sighting, which was accurate.
We are not, for some reason, peoplejust don't take the pictures that we
ask them to take, but that's okay.
I was up there, I think.
(34:26):
The week three to track and we got a goodtrack and I stopped back through there on
my way home from Maine and tracked again.
And the cat hasn't gone further.
The cat just went across the street andessentially is doing the same distance
just on the other side of the road.
Now we have new cameras inplace and that kind of thing.
But again, we hit, the one side we havehad was back at the vet point of loss.
(34:51):
But people get frustrated, like yousaid, and tend to give up too soon
because it's been a week, it's beentwo weeks and we've got nothing.
And especially with cats, I wouldnot discount that for anything.
I would leave those cameras out there for21 to 28 days 'cause they do circle back.
It can just take them a little longer.
Dixie (35:07):
And like you said, a camera's gonna be the only way that you're
gonna get the definitive proof too.
Another subject I'd like to touch ona little bit that I've seen lately is
scams where people will tell people
Carmen (35:20):
yes,
Dixie (35:21):
that they've found their pet and they'll say, Hey, text me.
And it can involve all kinds of differentthings actually, but can you explain some
of the scams you might be familiar with?
Carmen (35:32):
Sure.
It's a whole bunch of them becausepeople just get super creative.
I think it started offwith text me a Google Code.
That was like three years ago,four years I guess, when the
scams really started kicking in.
I haven't seen so many of those recently.
Now it's more first of all you havepeople impersonating legitimate
organizations, whether it be pet trackersor drone operators or what have you.
(35:54):
It's sad.
Everyone tags these fake pageson Facebook and you get these
desperate pet owners who don't.
Do the homework , they're sayingthey're a hundred percent guarantee
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And first of all, that shouldbe the first big red flag.
If I say I'm a hundred percentguaranteeing that I'm gonna find your
pet and hand 'em to you at the endof the day, there, there's no way.
We're dealing with a living thingthat has its own personality, right?
(36:16):
That's like me trying to say,a hundred percent I'm gonna be
able to do this with this person.
No questions asked, whatever.
There's just no way to predict that.
I've had people.
recently get spoof called, sowhen somebody calls their phone,
because again, you've got flyersup, you're on social media.
People already know the area your pet'slost in and they have your phone number so
they can just Google, let's say, I don'tknow, like Palm Beach, Florida, right?
(36:40):
What's the emergency vetclosest to Palm Beach, Florida?
They'll call you and yourcaller ID is going to show up
with, Palm Beach Emergency Vet.
So really you have no reason to thinkit's not Palm Beach Emergency Vet, right?
'cause that's what's comingup on your caller id.
And they're gonna call you at likemidnight 1:00 AM or whenever and say,
Hey, you know your dog was hit by a car.
I need your credit card number for $3,000.
(37:00):
We're going into surgery rightnow, or your dog's gonna die.
So number one, they're taking advantageof you at when you're most vulnerable.
What's missing?
Two, they're getting you whenyour guards down likely late at
night or early in the morning.
So you maybe you weresleeping, that kind of thing.
So you're not necessarilythinking straight 3.
They're calling from an organizationor business or vet or whatever
that you are familiar with.
(37:20):
That is close to you,and it's very probable.
Your dog could have been hit by acar and taken that you don't know.
And so , they're playing on allthose different emotions and they're
taking all those things and factoredinto the scam, and people will give
them $5,000 that way, and they getto the vet and, oh, wait a minute.
Nope, you don't have fluffy here huh.
I find that no vet, no animal control,nobody like that is necessarily gonna ask
(37:43):
you for money like that over the phone.
They're gonna say, Hey,fluffy was hit by a car.
We need you here.
Like right now.
No.
And if you are unsure, the bestthing you can do is hang up.
Google the organization and callthem back because if they were
spoof calling you, you're actuallygonna get the correct organization
when you call that number back.
People actually somewhat recently,and it was a group in Florida
(38:06):
that , got scammed on there and theyhad literally cloned my website.
So when you clicked on it had all thesame colors, all the same pictures, except
they've added on like a drone service.
And they added on a bunch of likecash app this or Venmo this and all
these different like payment, methods.
They changed the phone number, but theyweren't super duper thorough with it.
(38:28):
If you click on the link tothe National Geographic thing,
you still get the real me.
And at the bottom of some of the pages,they didn't take out the correct number.
So ideally someone catchesthat, but again, it looks
just like my normal website.
Like they did a remarkably good joband they just, copy and paste it.
some different pictures in there.
I've had people say that they work forprofessional pet checkers on Facebook
(38:51):
and try to scan people that way.
I had somebody call me fromNorman, Oklahoma asking me
why Dave hadn't arrived yet.
And I'm like okay,who's Dave for starters?
And apparently someone hadsaid they were calling for my
organization, their name was Dave.
They were coming out until theyfound their dog to Oklahoma.
And I think it was a total of $300.
And I was gonna show upwith my 31 tracking dogs.
Dixie (39:11):
Oh wow.
Carmen (39:11):
Several things there.
Number one, I'm based outta Virginiaand so if I'm coming to Norman,
Oklahoma for $300, then wow.
That's.
Remarkably kind of me andtwo, what am I tracking?
'cause I apparently, I havea tractor trailer of dogs.
So if I'm not putting up dogpoop or trainee or, like feeding,
like that's a lot of dogs.
It's unfortunate that they'vegotten so good at this, but
(39:31):
just you gotta do your homework.
Whether that be asking for a varietyof different references or, FaceTiming
with the person if you Google me, you'regonna come up with Carmen Brothers
and you're gonna see a picture of me.
You're gonna be able to see, again, theNational Geographic Show is a big one.
I can send you links to thatand I promised you I don't
have a scammer in nat geo.
So that way you can again verify you'retalking to the real person, right?
(39:53):
It's just people are so quick to click,pay whatever these days . Just, again,
I can just say, do your homework andif you think it's a scam or you think
it's too good to be true, it likely is.
Dixie (40:05):
They're very creative.
Carmen (40:06):
Just my website alone I don't even know how to report that or shut that down.
Because anybody can buy a domain nameand put anything they want on it.
What do I do with that at that point?
So at this point, I just literallyswitched up my entire website.
So at least it looks different.
Again, there's only so muchprevention and, trying to.
Make things separate yourselfper se, that you can do.
Dixie (40:28):
Yeah.
And I know like on the pages thatI admin for, we will see constantly
comments, oh, contact such and such pettrackers, we're gonna get your pet home.
Carmen (40:39):
Yeah.
All the things and thesedifferent ones, and it's just.
It's disgusting.
But it makes it harder forpeople to get legitimate help.
Dixie (40:46):
It does, right?
Absolutely.
' Carmen (40:48):
cause I'll get sent something I saw this, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
And so I'll, I've got like a jpeg with,lost Cat tips, lost dog tips, and then, my
number at the bottom of it, or I send 'emdirectly to my Facebook page or whatever.
But.
If you're seeing scam, scammer legitimate,scammer, scammer, it's, who knows, right?
It's almost impossible to know whoyou can trust and who you can't.
Dixie (41:09):
Yeah it's scary because, it is when people are the most vulnerable,
and they just wanna get their pets home
Carmen (41:14):
right?
Dixie (41:14):
What are some preventative measures pet owners can take to reduce the risk of
their pet getting lost in the first place?
Carmen (41:21):
I can't emphasize the microchipping enough, especially for cats.
The Tabby cats tend to look the same.
And if your cat's out for four to sixweeks, again the coat could be different
'cause their diet's been different.
It's just, a microchip is something that alot of people like, oh, I've got an indoor
cat, he's never gonna go out anywhere.
I don't need to do that.
Yeah maybe, yeah, please do.
(41:43):
Just in case.
'cause you never know andjust be smart about it, right?
If your dog doesn't have great recall,or even if your dog does have great
recall, a leash is a very cheap buy.
You can get 'em on Amazon super cheap, usethem, put identification on the collars
just, hey, it's out there all the time.
If you don't have a fence,keep your dog on a line.
(42:05):
If you know your dog is gonna chasethe deer, then maybe don't have
an invisible fence, but have arear fence and that kind of thing.
Just prevent, if it's a holiday you'replanning on having people over, so maybe,
put your dogs in the bedroom or something.
That way they're not stressed andthere's no risk of people leaving
doors open and that kind of stuff.
I would say for the petsitters in particular.
There's a couple different platformsout there, some better than the others.
(42:28):
However, it's great to have a personalrelationship with your pet sitter, right?
Don't just let you know Joe Schmo fromthat you booked online and I've never met
come walk Fluffy because we don't know.
Fluffy doesn't know that person.
And you don't want the pet sitter who'sgonna go, chase your pet for five blocks
if the leaf does drop type of thing.
And if nothing else, attempt tohave a good scent item for all
(42:51):
the pets in your house to makepeople like my lives much easier.
If you have nine cats and threeof 'em are indoor outdoor, and the
others are indoor only, and theyall share the same everything.
If I come out there and one's gonemissing, or two gone missing, one came
back, and so forth and so on, there isno way for me to say, okay, I'm a hundred
percent sure I'm tracking the correctcat if the scent items contaminated.
Dixie (43:14):
Before we end this call, is there anything else that you would like to add?
Carmen (43:19):
Just it can happen to anybody, and again, a lot of it has to do
with not the fact that it happened.
I find , people think they're gettingjudged for losing their dog or losing
their cat, and no one's judging.
It's more or less what you doto get your cat or dog home.
Dixie (43:34):
Absolutely.
And it can happen to anyone.
I know there are some people thatare careless and they do definitely
have those situations, but it couldbe, you think your door is shut and
your door accidentally pops open,
Carmen (43:48):
right?
Or the, the landscaper didn'tlock the gate or whatever.
It's my biggest pet peeve isseeing on like the Facebook pages.
My escape artist is at it again.
Okay, there's that.
Get a GPS collar, right?
The GPS collar is likely way cheaperthan I am or a thermal drone is.
Take that precaution if you knowthe Fluffy likes to run, do what
(44:08):
you can do, not make him run orkeep track of where he is at.
Dixie (44:13):
You said you had some resources for some tips.
Where can people find those?
Carmen (44:17):
So you can go to my website, which is professional pet trackers.com.
And there are resources,the page resources.
Dixie (44:26):
Great.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to speak with me today.
Carmen (44:31):
Of course.
Thank you.
Dixie (44:32):
All right.
Bye
And that's all the time wehave for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
explore the world of animal rescue.
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Today's guest is Carmen Brotherswith Professional Pet Trackers,
and we are gonna discuss lost Pets.
Hi, Carmen.
How are you?
Carmen (00:20):
I'm good, thank you.
Dixie (00:21):
I am excited to speak with you about Lost Pets.
That's a passion of mine.
Can you share your story behind thefounding of Professional Pet Trackers
and how you got started doing this?
Carmen (00:34):
Sure.
So I was volunteering with a rescue.
I.
Back in, it's been solong 20 10, 20 11 ish.
And they lost a dog.
And I got into the logistics of theflyers and the, don't call your dog
and everything that goes into loss ofbehavior and would a cover a lost dog?
And it just spiraled from there.
(00:56):
I became one of the two lost dogcoordinators for City Dogs Rescue
in Washington, DC and, obviously webought in a canine tracker and that
kind of thing, and it just grabbed meand I just started going from there.
I guess probably in 20 15, 2016 ish, I started running a
tracking dog volunteering witha nonprofit out of Baltimore.
(01:20):
Then come 2017, I was approached byNational Geographic to do a show like
a docuseries on tracking lost pets.
And the caveat was that I wouldhave to quit my normal full-time
job with, the stability and all thatgood stuff and benefits and whatnot.
Adults like to have and filmfull-time for roughly a year and
(01:41):
kind of see where that took me.
So I, I did and I never went back.
Dixie (01:47):
That's a very interesting story.
Carmen (01:49):
It's a little different.
Dixie (01:50):
It is.
Definitely.
When you were doing the Lost Pets withthe rescue, can you explain how that
was different between what you didthen and then what you're doing now?
Carmen (02:02):
So what I did then was essentially.
I guess almost delegate more, right?
Like I would come up with a flyerand figure out where to post flyers
and have volunteers, figure out whereto send volunteers to post flyers.
Flyering is still probably the number oneway to get pets home because even with a
canine tracker, you still need sightings.
To go to the next phase,which would be trapping.
(02:24):
And so I was, again, putting up, gettingflyers together, hanging 'em up to
volunteers and sending groups in differentplaces of DC to get flyers up to.
And then when we brought in a caninetracker who I had, gone online and
found, she was able to narrow downthat search areas dramatically.
And guide us more on the lostpet behavior side of things.
(02:44):
The whole lost pet circle and they tendto stay near water and, again, they're
most active between desk and dawn.
Just some things that normallypeople don't know unless
they've been through it before.
And so working with her and then havingseveral other lost dogs follow that while
I was still volunteering with City Dogs.
City Dogs Rescue in dc we would bringher back in and put all those actions
(03:06):
into place and use all the different,all the different systems we could.
To gather data per se, to figure outwhere, Maddie or whomever had gone.
And then once we had a sighting or we hada good area to put, a camera and a trap
at, we would go from there and do that.
And then essentiallylive trap your lost pet.
(03:26):
So that way we.
Bring them to us on their terms, right?
If they're in a place that theyfeel safe, I'd rather 'em stay there
in that place than have a bunch ofsearch parties or, even a tracking
dog come barely through that areaand unintentionally move your pet.
Dixie (03:42):
What are some of the most common misconceptions people
have about finding a lost pet?
Carmen (03:47):
And again I get where it comes from.
It's human instinct, right?
Your dog fluffy goes missing and you seeyour dog fluffy running down the road.
What are you gonna do?
You're out, there goes my dog, I'mgonna go chase my dog and call my dog
because at home, fluffy comes barelyinto your lap when you're running
around or when you're calling him.
But once a pet's been out for a littlewhile, they go into what they call
flight mode, meaning they no longerassociate you with sight or sound.
(04:10):
It's all about scent.
Everything to them is predatory, right?
So what works at home is no longera thing because they need to be able
to get close enough to mom or dador whomever to be able to smell them
for that switch to flip back andrealize, wait a minute, that's mom.
That's my person, and approach you.
But while they're out on theirown, again, everything's predatory.
(04:34):
And if you think about it, what dopredators do when they're stalking prey?
They're standing upright.
They're making direct eyecontact and moving towards you.
So those are the three things that wesay you absolutely do not want to do.
You wanna get down on the ground youwant, don't wanna make direct eye contact,
and you need to let them approach you.
And it's a waiting game.
I've seen it take five minutes.
(04:56):
I've also seen it take about seven hours.
Dixie (05:00):
Would that be the same with cats as it is with dogs?
Carmen (05:05):
Cats are a little different.
Cats are actually, catsare a little harder.
While they don't actually go as farthey tend to not, you don't get the
sightings called in that you wouldwith the German Shepherd because
cats are gonna stay, close to a houseor under bushes and slink around.
And then a lot of times people will seeyour cat and they even see the flyers.
(05:25):
They're gonna assume that it's anoutdoor cat or it's a feral cat
or community cat and what haveyou, and not necessarily call you.
So getting the sightings for cats is just,again, it's a whole process in itself.
And I find people, that call in sightingsfor lost cats are actually, trying, right?
But ideally they take a picturewhen they see the cat and text it
(05:47):
to the number on the flyer because.
No one knows their cat, like mom anddad, like there's, a tuxedo cat out
in Richmond and how many tuxedo catsdo you think there are in Richmond?
And so people will be like, oh,that's a black and white cat.
That must be, our missing cat.
And we have yet to get a picture.
But I can tell you the one area we'refocused on, there's probably about eight
tuxedo cats in that area that are notthe one and only we're looking for.
(06:11):
So without that picture orwithout a sent dog to verify, it's
significantly harder to determineif that's actually the missing pet.
Or is it just, the neighbor's catthat's out and about during the day?
Dixie (06:22):
I see that all the time.
I do run some lost pets groups,and if it's a tabby cat, oh, that's
the tabby cat that's missing.
And it's no.
Clearly it's a totallydifferent tabby cat.
Carmen (06:33):
Or sometimes we'll actually get the picture and we're looking for
like a black cat and we get a pictureof a Persian, and I'm like, huh.
Thanks for calling.
However, and again, gettingsightings on cats is a struggle.
The struggle is real.
And so the fact that they're actuallytaking the time to take the picture,
obviously I'm all about that.
Yay.
Thank you so much.
The fact it's the wrong cat andit's the totally wrong color.
(06:55):
Yay.
Okay.
But at least you got the picture,so you know, we're getting there.
It's a process.
Dixie (07:01):
Absolutely.
In your experience, what are themost crucial first steps a pet
owner should take immediately afterrealizing their pet is missing?
Carmen (07:12):
So if you're within the first, hour or two, right?
Again, no chasing.
I would say the first hour two, sure.
Call your dog like younormally would at home.
By no means am I saying get a megaphoneout there because I've seen people do
that and that's really never a good idea.
But ideally, you're gonna get somethingwith the owner scent out outside
to wherever you last saw your dog.
(07:32):
If you can get some kind of stinkyfood, whether it be hamburgers,
bacon, throw something in some liquidsmoke and get it to the wood liner or
whatnot, that would be great as well.
And then start working on a flyer.
I'd say within the first 24 hours.
Ideally, you have roughly anywherefrom a hundred to 150 flyers
posted throughout the area.
And then make sure you're, updating yoursocial media, whether that be next door.
(07:55):
I find that the Neighbors by Ring appis really useful, and a lot of people
don't think of that one because they'relike, oh, I don't have a ring product.
I can't post on there.
Actually, you don't need a ringproduct to create a ring account.
You just put the addressin and you can upload it to
their, animal activity section.
And that way we're utilizing thepeople in the neighborhood who
already have cameras out to let'ssee what they get on their camera.
(08:19):
Your dog could be running up and downthe street at three in the morning,
but no one's there to see 'em.
But the ring cameras won't pick it up.
Dixie (08:26):
Yeah, I didn't know that.
I thought you had to havea subscription in order to
Carmen (08:28):
A ring product.
Dixie (08:29):
Yeah.
Carmen (08:29):
No Ring product needed to create the account and, download
the app and just put it out there.
Dixie (08:34):
Yeah, that's some great advice.
As far as the scents, I alwayshear different things about.
Items that you should be puttingoutside because I've heard that
certain items that you put outsidecould be attracting wildlife that
might not be necessarily so good.
So is that true?
Carmen (08:53):
You're not gonna attract anything from 22 miles away.
Anything that is going to show up on yourcamera for the food, it's already there.
It's just we're probably notpaying such close attention to it.
So generally, again, the best way toattract your dog home is number one,
the owner scent paired with, bacon orso any, even if you don't have food,
just the liquid smoke in a spray bottleand kinda spray the area down so it
(09:17):
smells like the barbecue is gonna help.
And I strongly recommend a cameragoing on wherever you're trying
to get your dog to come back to.
Because if he comes backat two in the morning.
You're not there to see it.
You know the food's gonna begone, but we're gonna have
no idea what ate the food.
Was it Freddie the Fox,or was it, was it the dog?
(09:39):
So a camera is also a critical thing, andthese days they're not super expensive.
You can get a good cellulartrail camera on Amazon for $50.
Dixie (09:51):
Would you suggest more of a trail camera type thing
versus I guess one of the littleoutdoor products that you can get?
Carmen (09:58):
If you're at home, either works because you're gonna
hopefully have access to wifi.
But if you're like, for instance todayI was tracking a cat at the Virginia
Arboretum, which there's no wifi, soa trail camera that comes with its
own data plan is much more useful.
Sometimes People will
Put like flour down to try toget paw prints and what have you,
Dixie (10:19):
uhhuh.
Carmen (10:20):
But I found that the flour, it can be a quick go-to, but one little, wind
gust or too many foxes or or if you'relooking for a cat in particular, who's to
say how many cats you have in that area,
Dixie (10:30):
Anything else that you could use in addition to that or in place of that?
Carmen (10:35):
In place of the flour?
You could try some sand.
Which compacts down a little, right?
Better so that the random gust of wind isnot gonna necessarily screw that all up.
But again, a picture isworth a thousand words.
The cameras are really a kind of ideal,
The sand's really not even needed.
Because we're gonna get a picture.
Ideally, is it our cat?
You know the cat Rex we're looking for?
(10:55):
Or is it gonna be Ricky the raccoon?
We're gonna have a picture either way.
Dixie (11:00):
As far as placing the camera, should you be placing it out of the
door You think that they went out of?
Carmen (11:07):
It depends on where you're at.
If you're in New York City orsomething like that, it's gonna be
strategically, significantly harder.
To find a good place to put that camera.
But if you're, in Virginia, forinstance, about where I am, then if
your dog ran out the back door of thefront door and into the woods, I'd
place it more facing the wood line.
Dixie (11:25):
Now, what about the average time a it takes to find a lost pet?
Is there an average time?
Carmen (11:32):
It
depends on the pet and the terrain andthe circumstances, oddly enough, cats
can take a little longer than dogs do.
Just again, because you're notgetting the sightings as quickly as
you would be for the tabby cat asyou would be for the German Shepherd.
It depends on if, do they go missingfrom someplace other than home
or do they go missing from home?
Are they missing in a statepark or are they missing from,
(11:54):
the groomers type of thing.
I would say on average for a dog,anywhere from one to four weeks.
And for a cat, for an indoor onlycat, I would say one to three weeks.
As long as they're missing fromhome and haven't been displaced.
For instance, the cat I dotoday at the Arboretum, they're
(12:14):
what, 45 minutes from home.
He's an indoor only cat who'snow been displaced totally out
of his elements into the wild.
And the thing with this cat isthat number one, there's gonna be
nobody there to see them, right?
Because it's the arboretum.
So the odds of somebody seeing a catduring the day when they're walking
around or so to none, he's probablygonna be most active at night.
(12:34):
So we do have a couple camerasplaced, but we're also gonna be
competing with anything that Stanleyis going to catch on his own.
We're just hoping that my mackerel andsardines is way more attractive than, any
kind of birds or chipmunks or whateverhe may be finding to eat by himself.
Dixie (12:52):
For the lost cats, and let's say indoor only cats i'm in agreement
of course with the whole scent thing.
So I always tell people if it's anindoor only cat, chances are that
cat is very close by just hidingsomewhere in a really safe hiding spot.
And I always tell people to justcrack open their front door.
(13:14):
And I find like a lot of the timesat when they do that, they'll either
start seeing the cat or the cat evensometimes runs back in the house.
Carmen (13:22):
And I do the same thing.
And I've had it work a lot actually,even after a week or two, sometimes the
cat finds its way home and comes rightback into the window that it left from.
Dixie (13:33):
Yeah.
And I found that out by accident actually.
Like I always heard the thing aboutputting something on your porch,
say your shoes or dirty laundryso that they could smell it.
When my cat got out we just happened toopen the front door and when we opened
the front door, like within like maybefive minutes, he ran right back in.
Carmen (13:53):
Oh, that's perfect.
Dixie (13:54):
At that time, that's when I realized, oh leaving the front door open.
I think that's actually like a thing,because cat behavior is they go out there,
they find someplace to hide and they'rejust hiding, looking around, waiting.
I know people always say, go out there,shake the treat jars and stuff like that.
My experience with cats is
you just have to let 'em alone and let'em come to you opening the door, and
(14:16):
a lot of the times they run back in.
Carmen (14:19):
I agree.
And the thing with lost pets thata lot of people don't understand
for say, and again, 'cause itgoes against, human nature, right?
Once you start searching actively for alost pet, like literally beating bushes
and stuff like that, or if everybodygoes tromping through the woods and
that kind of thing, you actually run therisk of moving your pet and pushing your
(14:39):
pet out of that immediate area, right?
Because.
Again, they're somewhere that,where they feel safe and whatnot.
As soon as you invade that space,they are not taking the time to
realize, oh wait, that's mom.
They're just saying Uhoh.
Something's here.
Predator.
Predator, run.
And so they, they move.
And then once they associate thatarea with fear, they're actually
less likely to return to thatarea than they would have before.
Dixie (15:03):
That makes a lot of sense.
It really does.
Carmen (15:04):
And so a lot of times on the trapping side of things, when you'll
see trappers like, please don't chase,please don't chase, please don't chase.
And unfortunately, everybodythinks that they can go get the
dog or the cat or whatnot, andthey wanna play the hero card.
And literally it's like pulling teeth,trying to get people to stay away
and don't chase, just let the dog be.
But again, once you chase that dog.
All the trapping effortsstart from scratch again.
(15:26):
'cause now they've shifted areas, right?
So now we have to find the new areaand we have to, sometimes recondition
for the trapping portion of it.
And it just makes it somuch more challenging.
Dixie (15:35):
You did mention that it is harder to do cats because people will see a
cat outside and when they see the catoutside, they automatically assume it's
an outside cat or an inside outside cat.
So it's not lost.
And I see that a lot as well.
So are there any tips you can givepeople that if they see a cat,
which might indicate that cat isactually a lost cat, that may be an
(15:57):
indoor only cat or a displaced cat?
Carmen (16:00):
Hopefully
the goal would be for them tosee, oh look, lost cat flyer.
Oh, wait a minute, here'sa cat and lost cat flyer.
So it really drives that point home.
I would say that, if they see a cat takea picture of the cat because if they
don't know that cat the flyers might goup tomorrow or the following day, but
(16:20):
then they can say, oh, wait a minute.
I saw this cat here on,Thursday type of thing.
Or if they are, rescue people andwhat have you, they can obviously
go on Facebook and search kindof their local lost pet pages.
I realize a lot of people these days aresomewhat self-absorbed, so that's asking
a lot, which is why I say, maybe justtake a picture and see if the flyers
(16:40):
pop up in a day or two, type of thing.
Dixie (16:42):
Okay, great advice.
I,
Carmen (16:44):
the flyers are just a critical thing, right?
Because without the flyers even,even in like the Northern Virginia
area for instance, you'll see anoff leash dog who's just, people
let them roam type of thing.
So it could really be the neighbor's dog,but could it be a lost dog also maybe, and
you don't see the flyers or what have you.
And so it's, the flyers makeeverybody in that community aware.
And the flyers are likely themost tedious process of all.
(17:08):
And it's what I get the most pushbackon, is getting the flyers up to
the areas they need to be up at.
Having the, an effective flyer is alsosuper important sometimes, and some of,
these, social media platforms or whatever,will, just design a flyer for you.
Okay, great.
I don't need to know what Fluffy eatsevery night for dinner and what time he
eats and his favorite color and does hedo this and that, and blah, blah, blah.
(17:29):
All I need is Lost dog or lost cat.
Big picture.
Do not chase big phone number.
That's it.
I don't even want the name on there.
If somebody's walking around and they'relike out for their afternoon jog, right?
And you see all these flyers saying,lost dog, fluffy, what's your
gut instinct telling you to do?
Oh wait, that's a dog fluffy.
And you start calling for thedog, and that then scares the dog
(17:52):
and pushes the dog further away.
But if they don't know the name, whataction item do they have left to do?
Okay, great.
They'll take a picture and thatway they can text it to the number.
Dixie (18:02):
That's some good advice.
'cause I do see flyers too, that youactually have to stop and read 'em,
or it's it'll be so much wordingin a very tiny little photo of an
animal, and it's make that bigger.
Carmen (18:13):
And at that point,
again, who's actually gonna stop tonecessarily, other than then pet people or
rescue people, your average person who'scoming home from work or just picking kids
up from school or whatever, they're notstopping to take a picture of that flyer.
They don't even know is it, are theyadvertising a yard sale where they're
gonna have, stuffed pets for sale?
Who knows?
So if it's not super clear.
(18:34):
By the time I get there, I redid theflyer for them and then I'm so not
popular when I'm like, Hey, let's goreplace all of these type of thing.
I encourage people to get flyersup to the entrance and exits of
churches because that's a differentdemographic of people, right?
They're not on Facebook.
They're not on social media,and if they are out driving,
they might not be stopping andseeing what's on the stop sign.
(18:55):
They're just trying to get frompoint A to B, but they go to church.
Dixie (18:59):
Great advice.
When should people call in aprofessional pet tracker like you?
Carmen (19:05):
It probably depends, for instance, when people call me, if they've had a lot
of the sightings and they don't know whatto do or where to turn or how to get,
fluffy home, I'm relatively well networkedto whereas I can get them in touch with
a qualified trapper for their area.
I just got back from Maine.
I was in New Hampshire, Vermont, andthen New York on my way home to Virginia.
(19:27):
So I was gone like, what?
Nine days?
I'm not.
In one location for long enough toactually assist with the trapping.
I can, obviously, virtually consultand whatnot like the cats for instance.
I can walk people how totrap cats all day long.
But for the dogs, again, that's likea five, $600 very large trap that you
need to acquire and get out, and it justhelps to have somebody who's physically
(19:49):
there, boots on the ground because.
A dog can say, Nope, I don'twanna do the kennel trap.
I, and you have to switchit to a Missy trap.
I had one dog out in King George,Virginia for 500 and some odd days.
We tracked once we had that dogon camera almost every other night
until we started switching up traps.
'cause she wouldn't go into box trap.
We tried a Missy Trap.
We would build up panel by panel.
(20:10):
She had nothing to do with that.
So we actually had to havemy friend Kevin drive up from
North Carolina with a drop net.
Meaning we had to clear utilities andget the waterline cleared and all of
that good stuff and put that up andthen condition her to go under that.
And it took a while.
So again, it's, having a qualifiedtrapper in your area is a big plus,
(20:33):
or sometimes somebody who at least,you know, within an hour who can
drive and help you with equipment.
Even if I could, I drivea Toyota Highlander.
I had a four runner before I caneither bring tracking dogs or a trap.
And I can pretty much guarantee themajority of the time I'm called in
and actually physically go somewhere.
They're gonna want thetracking dogs and not the trap.
Dixie (20:54):
The net that you were talking about, does that just go up and then
just fall directly on top of the dog?
Is that how that works?
Carmen (21:01):
Yeah, it's like almost a soccer field size net.
Like a soccer, like a goal?
Type of net.
And it goes on top of these polesand it's released by magnets.
And it's, you have a live camerafrom different angles on the dog.
'cause you gotta be there quick.
Because you don't wantthe dog to hurt himself.
But yes, that's essentially what it is.
Now, some dogs won't enter, won't walkthrough thresholds no matter how big.
(21:22):
It's just a thing.
So when the Missy Trap won'twork, you're left huh, okay.
Now what?
And so then we typically go to a drop net.
Dixie (21:33):
That's interesting.
So can you tell us a littlebit about your tracking dogs?
Carmen (21:39):
Sure.
So I'm gonna say I have 3.5.
, The dog I started with magic.
She's a yellow lab and she'sliving her best life of
retirement with my mom right now.
She's probably 12 ish, I would say.
And I'll still take around tolike local cat stuff or just, like
a hide and seek type of thing.
She still loves the game, butshe has problems getting in and
outta the back of the truck.
(22:00):
It's harder on her hips and whatnot.
Then I have a German Shepherdnamed Rose who is six.
I have a, and this is whatkind of gets people every time.
I have a rat terrier named Trix,who is five, and she's phenomenal.
She's my heart surface girl.
She's, so she's 15 pounds.
So she's little.
She's good for the cats 'causeshe can get into places that,
(22:23):
my shepherd and my labs cannot.
And then my newest additionis Finley and he will be two
in July and he's a black lab.
Dixie (22:32):
How does that process work with using the tracking dogs?
Can you tell us how they goout and actually find the pets?
Carmen (22:40):
So it's important to remember that, again, I'm not
necessarily walking up on your dog.
And while it has happened, I'dsay I've had maybe, I don't
know, 12 to 15 since I started.
We call them walkup finds.
And at 12 to 15 I've probably hadseven to eight like captures from
being out on the track, if you will.
(23:01):
We take a scent item, whether that be abed, a blanket, harness a sweater, I've
used the dog's, toothbrush, whatever.
And then we literally,track your lost pet.
So with that said, we're methodicallychasing essentially, right?
So once my dogs start to giveme a proximity alert, depending
on where we're at and what'sgoing on, I generally pull back.
(23:23):
We were in Maine, where were we?
It was Corinth, Maine, about a week ago.
And it was actually with Finleyand I was partnering with a thermal
drone operator up there, which hasa lot of benefits to it as well.
Because we were tracking and I was justtelling the owner, Christie, I'm like,
you'll notice we're moving faster.
(23:43):
I was like, the sun's gettingstronger and stronger.
And then, Rob came over theradio and was like, Hey, I've got
Mavis 300 feet in front of you.
So again, that's amazinginformation to have, right?
So that way we were able toknow what we were walking
into before we walked into it.
So I had, I put Finley back up in the car.
We coached Christie on calming signals.
I gave her some rotisserie chickenin a bag, a slip lead, and sent her,
(24:07):
literally directed her while havingher on FaceTime and on the radio
with the drone as to where Mavis was.
She sat there probably, Idon't know, she probably 45
minutes to an hour in the rain.
Trying to use calmingsignals and what have you.
And Mavis moved, bolted right past her.
Didn't even take a second togive it a chance to smell.
Wait a minute, that's mom.
(24:28):
So as disheartening as that is to have herrun right past you, we, I mean there was
a lot of important things that day, right?
Like number one, Mavis mom goteyes on Mavis for the first time.
So there's a great big relief there.
'cause essentially that's proof of life.
And I can tell you all day longwe're getting sightings or whatever.
But until you actuallyput eyes on your dog.
It's harder to, it's harderfor that relief to sit in.
(24:50):
Secondly, now we know where we'retrapping and putting cameras up at.
And so after that we called itfor the tracking because we're
methodically chasing, right?
And I don't wanna continue tochase and scare her from the area.
So let's go to the trapping.
Let's get the cameras out in thetrap and see where we go with that.
And we have, maybe this might be alittle bit of a more challenging.
(25:11):
Trap, if you will.
She seems to have no desire to goin this box trap, no matter what
food I put in it, whether it's ham,beef, liver, tripe, barbecue, bacon,
she wants nothing to do with it.
So we're looking at probably havingto get a Missy trap up there for her.
So is she still out on the run then?
(25:31):
We get her on camera every night.
She's still in the same location.
She just has no desireto go in this box trap.
And it's one of the sixfoot extra large ones.
And so it's not a size thing.
I think it's just the beingcontained thing, right?
So now we're gonna startconditioning for a Missy.
I'm gonna a trap and startputting the kennel panels up and
making sure, we'll probably doit a little slower than typical.
(25:53):
We'll probably startwith the three panels.
And does she come back and eat still?
Okay.
Yes.
Great.
Let's do the next three.
Okay.
She's still there.
Awesome.
Let's finish it up and go from there.
Dixie (26:03):
I think there two is a misconception with the
tracking dogs, because I see.
People sometimes commenting, oh,I'm gonna get a tracking dog.
And I think that they think that,oh, they're gonna get a tracking dog.
Carmen (26:14):
I'm gonna walk
up and hand you your pet.
Dixie (26:15):
That's what I was gonna say.
There is a process to it.
So you get the tracking dog
Carmen (26:20):
oh yes.
Dixie (26:21):
You get the tracking dog.
You don't wanna chase the dog.
So then at that point you have to trap it.
Carmen (26:26):
Correct.
Now the drones are a relativelynew thing with lost pets, and it's
an amazing, it's amazing, right?
People have to understand that.
Let's say you have a newdog, new rescue dog, right?
And you've had the dog two hoursputting a drone up in the air.
While yes, you might get eyeson the dog, which is amazing.
Even like the calming signals willlikely not work at that point.
'cause this dog does not know you.
(26:47):
This dog came from, Texas andyou're in, you're in Massachusetts,
right?
There's nothing familiar.
So even having, the drone say,yes, here's the coordinates.
I'm gonna walk you in,and so forth and so on.
Could it work?
Okay, sure.
Is it likely to work, eh.
Maybe, if you've got a little bit ofbackground on the dog, was it an owner
surrender or was it out on the streetsof Texas by himself for, two years?
(27:08):
The dog who's been on the streetfor two years is gonna be much less
likely to trust anybody or anything.
I.
You're probably gonna wanna domore trapping than like a common
signals hand capture approach.
And I don't think people realize that, ifa drone goes up, yes, it can be immediate
gratification, which is remarkable.
And that's what everybody wants.
If the drone goes up and sees nothingyou're still left with nothing,
(27:30):
You don't have a direction of travel.
You have, nothing to go off of per se.
And that doesn't necessarily mean yourdog's not in that area of the drone
flew, but could your dog be under,something or hidden somehow in a way
that, that the thermal is not picking up?
Possibly.
But again, you're not gonna knowthat the thermal drones offer that
immediate gratification result, whereasa tracking dog odds are you're gonna
(27:55):
have to do a little bit of work.
It's gonna be the flyers and thefeeding stations, and it's gonna
be, there's, there needs to besome effort put forth by the owner,
It's not necessarily this quickturnaround type, one done, here's Carmen
great and I'm showing up with my leashor my carrier and my whatever, and
my harness, and let's go get my dog.
And I've shown up and had peoplethink that no matter how many times
you tell them or no many, how manytimes you reiterated it in any kind
(28:15):
of contract or anything, they stillhave that stuck in their mind.
I still try to break it down yes, couldthat happen And that would be amazing.
Is it likely not really.
Again, your dog's gonna sense me andmy dog coming into whatever little
bubble of safety they've created forthemselves way before we get eyes on 'em.
Dixie (28:36):
With a thermal drone , do you have to worry about picking up other
animals that might not be yours?
Carmen (28:42):
Of course, yes.
But ideally, at least the droneoperators I've worked with can
tell me, oh, is that a coyote?
Yes.
Is it a rabbit?
Yes, it does.
A squirrel also.
Yes.
We managed to get several porcupinesin a tree while we were in Maine.
So they can tell us if it's,our target animal or not.
And with it.
That also helps me and my dogs becauseI don't really wanna walk into the
(29:06):
coyote den, if there's a coyote 300feet to my right, I'd like to know
that before I walk a lot type of thing.
Dixie (29:12):
So something else that I see a lot of is people wanting to use the
thermal drones in like urban areas.
Do people use them or is that gonnabe like almost pointless because
you're gonna pick up so manyother dogs or so many other cats.
Carmen (29:28):
A thermal drone for a cat for starters is likely not the best bet
anyways because your cat's probably hidingunderneath a porch or a shed or something
along those lines to whereas a thermalslikely not going to pick it up anyways.
Could it maybe, but that's a hail Mary.
As far as the open areas go.
A lot of the more populated areas.
For instance, a lot of the areas rightaround DC or Chicago and a hundred
(29:50):
percent New York City are no fly zones.
So you're not gonna be able to geta thermal drone up there anyways.
Any kinda military base and whathave you, it's gonna be no fly zones
and you can apply for the exemptionto get a drone up, but that's gonna
also take you three to four days.
And there's no guarantee.
And so again, it's, the immediategratification sounds amazing.
When you hear it, and I also wouldlike to be like, sure, whatever.
(30:13):
Not a problem.
Come on.
1:00 AM whatever time youneed to be here, let's do it.
But people just need to take asecond and realize, okay, so if
I don't see my dog now, what?
Whereas at least if you're pairingthe tracking dog in the drone,
the tracking dog's still gonnagive you that direction of travel.
You're still gonna have an actionplan on which way the dog went
and where the dog will likely gonext based on lost pet behavior.
(30:34):
Ideally, and at least the way I workthings, is that once I get an area,
I actually go outside of that areaand create a perimeter of what I call
negatives or locations with no scent.
Just doubling down on the fact Ididn't miss a turn, and making sure
that the area I have is accurate.
Because again, at the end of theday, your dog can miss a turn.
, But all of my negatives I tell peopleare also probable positives, meaning
(30:57):
likely they passive travel, so youranimal's gonna continue to move.
Just 'cause he's not here right now doesnot mean he won't be here in two days.
And so it helps them understandthe process of where your dog's
gonna go next type of thing.
Dixie (31:14):
For people who aren't using the tracking dogs and
aren't using the thermal drones
Carmen (31:19):
FLYER FLYER FLYER
Dixie (31:21):
But as far
as distance because I willsee something where, people
are like, oh, my dog was lost.
In this general area, but dogs can justkeep running to get into another area.
The cats can hitch a ride or catscan get picked up and get dumped.
As far as travel goes, I guessfor a dog, for an animal that's
(31:44):
just gonna be running, how farcan a dog travel in one day?
Carmen (31:49):
So typically a dog will go three to five miles a day.
Ideally that's a circle or a triangle.
There's some kind of pattern and orshape to where they're going with
that said, if they get on powerlines, train tracks, creek beds, that
kind of thing, that can push themsignificantly further out, like almost
in a straight line, significantly faster.
(32:11):
I generally tell people if they havethe flyers up for that three to five
mile radius, let's, you know it's been48 hours with no sightings or anything,
let's go another three miles out.
Then if you wait another, 48 hours stillnothing, let's go another three miles
out because any of those things, it'slike a little doggy highway, right?
They can hop on those power linesand no one's gonna see them and they
(32:32):
can go straight for quite some time.
Maybe popping off here and there, orneighborhoods for like trash night
or something exciting like that.
But I had, I've had dogsgo 44 miles in 13 days.
On power lines.
I had now, given this wasn'tpower lines, but I did have an
Alaskan sled dog that had justretired, go 27 miles in four days.
(32:53):
But again, that's kinda whatthat dog was bred to do, right?
There was no denying thatit was gonna be a runner.
It just, again, knowing your dog'spersonality and the breed especially
also helps, obviously the Alaskan sleddogs are bred to, to run in significant
distances significantly quickly.
I find your huskies and yourshepherds can also be runners.
(33:14):
The whippets and greyhounds also runners.
I find that boxers tend to staycloser and or circle back at some
point in time, more so than someof the other breeds, oddly enough.
The smaller dogs, people like to discountthem thinking they're not gonna go
super far, but they're the spunky onesthat have that, have that energy and
they'll up and go in a heartbeat too.
Dixie (33:35):
Yeah, and I know people also tend to lose hope like after a week
or so and they tend to give up.
I always tell people one of the thingsthat you shouldn't do is give up hope.
I know by me there was a situationwhere somebody's cat got out
their carrier broke as they werebringing them into a vet clinic.
And it happened to be the vet clinic wascaddy corner to the back of my business.
(33:56):
So I put a trap out just hopingthat I might catch the cat.
I caught the cat, it took me threemonths, but I did catch the cat.
Carmen (34:06):
And that's not abnormal.
I am actually working on a casewhere that exact same thing happened.
And the Pennsylvania, New Yorkborder, and it's been, I think
we're going on six weeks now.
We had one sighting, which was accurate.
We are not, for some reason, peoplejust don't take the pictures that we
ask them to take, but that's okay.
I was up there, I think.
(34:26):
The week three to track and we got a goodtrack and I stopped back through there on
my way home from Maine and tracked again.
And the cat hasn't gone further.
The cat just went across the street andessentially is doing the same distance
just on the other side of the road.
Now we have new cameras inplace and that kind of thing.
But again, we hit, the one side we havehad was back at the vet point of loss.
(34:51):
But people get frustrated, like yousaid, and tend to give up too soon
because it's been a week, it's beentwo weeks and we've got nothing.
And especially with cats, I wouldnot discount that for anything.
I would leave those cameras out there for21 to 28 days 'cause they do circle back.
It can just take them a little longer.
Dixie (35:07):
And like you said, a camera's gonna be the only way that you're
gonna get the definitive proof too.
Another subject I'd like to touch ona little bit that I've seen lately is
scams where people will tell people
Carmen (35:20):
yes,
Dixie (35:21):
that they've found their pet and they'll say, Hey, text me.
And it can involve all kinds of differentthings actually, but can you explain some
of the scams you might be familiar with?
Carmen (35:32):
Sure.
It's a whole bunch of them becausepeople just get super creative.
I think it started offwith text me a Google Code.
That was like three years ago,four years I guess, when the
scams really started kicking in.
I haven't seen so many of those recently.
Now it's more first of all you havepeople impersonating legitimate
organizations, whether it be pet trackersor drone operators or what have you.
(35:54):
It's sad.
Everyone tags these fake pageson Facebook and you get these
desperate pet owners who don't.
Do the homework , they're sayingthey're a hundred percent guarantee
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And first of all, that shouldbe the first big red flag.
If I say I'm a hundred percentguaranteeing that I'm gonna find your
pet and hand 'em to you at the endof the day, there, there's no way.
We're dealing with a living thingthat has its own personality, right?
(36:16):
That's like me trying to say,a hundred percent I'm gonna be
able to do this with this person.
No questions asked, whatever.
There's just no way to predict that.
I've had people.
recently get spoof called, sowhen somebody calls their phone,
because again, you've got flyersup, you're on social media.
People already know the area your pet'slost in and they have your phone number so
they can just Google, let's say, I don'tknow, like Palm Beach, Florida, right?
(36:40):
What's the emergency vetclosest to Palm Beach, Florida?
They'll call you and yourcaller ID is going to show up
with, Palm Beach Emergency Vet.
So really you have no reason to thinkit's not Palm Beach Emergency Vet, right?
'cause that's what's comingup on your caller id.
And they're gonna call you at likemidnight 1:00 AM or whenever and say,
Hey, you know your dog was hit by a car.
I need your credit card number for $3,000.
(37:00):
We're going into surgery rightnow, or your dog's gonna die.
So number one, they're taking advantageof you at when you're most vulnerable.
What's missing?
Two, they're getting you whenyour guards down likely late at
night or early in the morning.
So you maybe you weresleeping, that kind of thing.
So you're not necessarilythinking straight 3.
They're calling from an organizationor business or vet or whatever
that you are familiar with.
(37:20):
That is close to you,and it's very probable.
Your dog could have been hit by acar and taken that you don't know.
And so , they're playing on allthose different emotions and they're
taking all those things and factoredinto the scam, and people will give
them $5,000 that way, and they getto the vet and, oh, wait a minute.
Nope, you don't have fluffy here huh.
I find that no vet, no animal control,nobody like that is necessarily gonna ask
(37:43):
you for money like that over the phone.
They're gonna say, Hey,fluffy was hit by a car.
We need you here.
Like right now.
No.
And if you are unsure, the bestthing you can do is hang up.
Google the organization and callthem back because if they were
spoof calling you, you're actuallygonna get the correct organization
when you call that number back.
People actually somewhat recently,and it was a group in Florida
(38:06):
that , got scammed on there and theyhad literally cloned my website.
So when you clicked on it had all thesame colors, all the same pictures, except
they've added on like a drone service.
And they added on a bunch of likecash app this or Venmo this and all
these different like payment, methods.
They changed the phone number, but theyweren't super duper thorough with it.
(38:28):
If you click on the link tothe National Geographic thing,
you still get the real me.
And at the bottom of some of the pages,they didn't take out the correct number.
So ideally someone catchesthat, but again, it looks
just like my normal website.
Like they did a remarkably good joband they just, copy and paste it.
some different pictures in there.
I've had people say that they work forprofessional pet checkers on Facebook
(38:51):
and try to scan people that way.
I had somebody call me fromNorman, Oklahoma asking me
why Dave hadn't arrived yet.
And I'm like okay,who's Dave for starters?
And apparently someone hadsaid they were calling for my
organization, their name was Dave.
They were coming out until theyfound their dog to Oklahoma.
And I think it was a total of $300.
And I was gonna show upwith my 31 tracking dogs.
Dixie (39:11):
Oh wow.
Carmen (39:11):
Several things there.
Number one, I'm based outta Virginiaand so if I'm coming to Norman,
Oklahoma for $300, then wow.
That's.
Remarkably kind of me andtwo, what am I tracking?
'cause I apparently, I havea tractor trailer of dogs.
So if I'm not putting up dogpoop or trainee or, like feeding,
like that's a lot of dogs.
It's unfortunate that they'vegotten so good at this, but
(39:31):
just you gotta do your homework.
Whether that be asking for a varietyof different references or, FaceTiming
with the person if you Google me, you'regonna come up with Carmen Brothers
and you're gonna see a picture of me.
You're gonna be able to see, again, theNational Geographic Show is a big one.
I can send you links to thatand I promised you I don't
have a scammer in nat geo.
So that way you can again verify you'retalking to the real person, right?
(39:53):
It's just people are so quick to click,pay whatever these days . Just, again,
I can just say, do your homework andif you think it's a scam or you think
it's too good to be true, it likely is.
Dixie (40:05):
They're very creative.
Carmen (40:06):
Just my website alone I don't even know how to report that or shut that down.
Because anybody can buy a domain nameand put anything they want on it.
What do I do with that at that point?
So at this point, I just literallyswitched up my entire website.
So at least it looks different.
Again, there's only so muchprevention and, trying to.
Make things separate yourselfper se, that you can do.
Dixie (40:28):
Yeah.
And I know like on the pages thatI admin for, we will see constantly
comments, oh, contact such and such pettrackers, we're gonna get your pet home.
Carmen (40:39):
Yeah.
All the things and thesedifferent ones, and it's just.
It's disgusting.
But it makes it harder forpeople to get legitimate help.
Dixie (40:46):
It does, right?
Absolutely.
' Carmen (40:48):
cause I'll get sent something I saw this, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
And so I'll, I've got like a jpeg with,lost Cat tips, lost dog tips, and then, my
number at the bottom of it, or I send 'emdirectly to my Facebook page or whatever.
But.
If you're seeing scam, scammer legitimate,scammer, scammer, it's, who knows, right?
It's almost impossible to know whoyou can trust and who you can't.
Dixie (41:09):
Yeah it's scary because, it is when people are the most vulnerable,
and they just wanna get their pets home
Carmen (41:14):
right?
Dixie (41:14):
What are some preventative measures pet owners can take to reduce the risk of
their pet getting lost in the first place?
Carmen (41:21):
I can't emphasize the microchipping enough, especially for cats.
The Tabby cats tend to look the same.
And if your cat's out for four to sixweeks, again the coat could be different
'cause their diet's been different.
It's just, a microchip is something that alot of people like, oh, I've got an indoor
cat, he's never gonna go out anywhere.
I don't need to do that.
Yeah maybe, yeah, please do.
(41:43):
Just in case.
'cause you never know andjust be smart about it, right?
If your dog doesn't have great recall,or even if your dog does have great
recall, a leash is a very cheap buy.
You can get 'em on Amazon super cheap, usethem, put identification on the collars
just, hey, it's out there all the time.
If you don't have a fence,keep your dog on a line.
(42:05):
If you know your dog is gonna chasethe deer, then maybe don't have
an invisible fence, but have arear fence and that kind of thing.
Just prevent, if it's a holiday you'replanning on having people over, so maybe,
put your dogs in the bedroom or something.
That way they're not stressed andthere's no risk of people leaving
doors open and that kind of stuff.
I would say for the petsitters in particular.
There's a couple different platformsout there, some better than the others.
(42:28):
However, it's great to have a personalrelationship with your pet sitter, right?
Don't just let you know Joe Schmo fromthat you booked online and I've never met
come walk Fluffy because we don't know.
Fluffy doesn't know that person.
And you don't want the pet sitter who'sgonna go, chase your pet for five blocks
if the leaf does drop type of thing.
And if nothing else, attempt tohave a good scent item for all
(42:51):
the pets in your house to makepeople like my lives much easier.
If you have nine cats and threeof 'em are indoor outdoor, and the
others are indoor only, and theyall share the same everything.
If I come out there and one's gonemissing, or two gone missing, one came
back, and so forth and so on, there isno way for me to say, okay, I'm a hundred
percent sure I'm tracking the correctcat if the scent items contaminated.
Dixie (43:14):
Before we end this call, is there anything else that you would like to add?
Carmen (43:19):
Just it can happen to anybody, and again, a lot of it has to do
with not the fact that it happened.
I find , people think they're gettingjudged for losing their dog or losing
their cat, and no one's judging.
It's more or less what you doto get your cat or dog home.
Dixie (43:34):
Absolutely.
And it can happen to anyone.
I know there are some people thatare careless and they do definitely
have those situations, but it couldbe, you think your door is shut and
your door accidentally pops open,
Carmen (43:48):
right?
Or the, the landscaper didn'tlock the gate or whatever.
It's my biggest pet peeve isseeing on like the Facebook pages.
My escape artist is at it again.
Okay, there's that.
Get a GPS collar, right?
The GPS collar is likely way cheaperthan I am or a thermal drone is.
Take that precaution if you knowthe Fluffy likes to run, do what
(44:08):
you can do, not make him run orkeep track of where he is at.
Dixie (44:13):
You said you had some resources for some tips.
Where can people find those?
Carmen (44:17):
So you can go to my website, which is professional pet trackers.com.
And there are resources,the page resources.
Dixie (44:26):
Great.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to speak with me today.
Carmen (44:31):
Of course.
Thank you.
Dixie (44:32):
All right.
Bye
And that's all the time wehave for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
explore the world of animal rescue.
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