June 13, 2025 • 44 mins
Join us for a crucial conversation with Rachel Goyette from the Jefferson SPCA as we delve into an often-misunderstood topic: spaying pregnant cats and dogs. In this eye-opening episode, Rachel shares vital information on how this procedure plays a significant role in combating pet overpopulation, reducing the strain on shelters, and ultimately creating a healthier community for our beloved animals. Learn about the benefits and impact of spaying pregnant pets, and discover how you can be a part of the solution.
#PetOverpopulation #SpayAndNeuter #JeffersonSPCA #AnimalWelfare #RescuePets #CommunityImpact #FurryFriends #ResponsiblePetOwnership
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dixie (00:02):
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
We are back with Rachelfrom the Jefferson, SPCA.
Everybody loved listeningto your shows before Rachel.
Rachel (00:15):
Thank you.
I hope they did.
I hope they felt my passion of how much Iwish that there was a shortage of animals.
Dixie (00:23):
Yeah.
Every rescue wishes fora shortage of animals.
Rachel (00:27):
I know.
I feel like this kitten season'shitting a little harder.
I feel like all rescues are feeling it.
I feel like the shelter'sfeeling it really bad.
I don't know.
I thought I went into thisand I had all the supplies.
'cause I know if you haveeverything and you're prepared,
usually it doesn't happen, right?
Knock on wood.
I haven't had panleuk, but there's acertain medicine you need and it's not
a medicine that our vet directly carries
Dixie (00:48):
Uhhuh.
Rachel (00:49):
And so I was like, I'm just gonna order it and let it sit in this cabinet.
And ever since I've had it.
I've never needed it.
Another rescues had to come run tome to borrow it, and I've had to give
that, and I ordered another one toreplace it, still sitting in the box.
So
Dixie (01:03):
that's
a good thing.
Rachel (01:05):
So I'm hoping that I thought if I had all the kittens supplies and
everything ready, I had clavamox andall the dewormers and everything that I
wouldn't get hit and they keep coming.
But I am sticking to my rule of I won'ttake kittens unless you have the mom too.
Singletons are different when theyfall out of cars and random, like
that's hard to say no because wedon't know where it came from.
(01:27):
Right.
But if someone's Hey, I have this litterof kids I found and I'm feeding 'em, and I
like take them in, I have to have the mom.
Dixie (01:35):
What do you do when they claim there is no mom around.
Rachel (01:40):
If there's a litter of kittens around and you say
there's no mom, I'll call bs.
Mama Cats tend to have their litteraway from where they normally feed.
We had the one with the lady that openedher laundry room right before Easter and
freaked out and found the kittens, andshe's I've never seen cats around here.
And that was because mama catstend to have 'em away from their
(02:01):
colonies because they wanna keep'em safe from the other adults.
So you can say the mom's notthere, but she put them there
on purpose to protect them.
I'll send a trapper out to go help andthat's what we did in that situation.
Or I dunno what to tell you.
You're not gonna get helpfrom me, I'll tell you that.
You have to keep looking for mom.
Cameras set a trap, figure it out.
(02:23):
Mama's around there somewhere,
Dixie (02:25):
right?
Yeah I'm the same way.
When they contact me and they wantme to take kittens, I'm sure I'll
take the kittens, but you gottago get that appointment first.
So far the ones that I have have beenreceptive, which is a good thing.
but you do get the ones that are like,oh, I'm on my third litter of kittens.
Rachel (02:42):
Like you don't understand.
But it was funny 'cause now thatyou say that we have Rebecca's
flyer for the TNR Academy.
It's taped on our wallinside Jefferson Feed.
And they had two EMS people that werewalking around, like through our cat
area, just like everybody comes in'cause it's like the petting zoo.
And they were reading her flyer andthey were like, wait four months.
(03:03):
Cats can get pregnant at four months.
And I guess, I would think like being aan EMT and a paramedic, they're educated
people, they're not, uneducated, but it'ssomething that they didn't even know.
I dunno.
I guess we just have to keep preachingit every day and every day until they
all realize, but they were just shockedand like they were just walking around
petting the cats and they were justdoing like hand sanitizer as they were
(03:25):
leaving and then just read that flyer,
Dixie (03:27):
I think that a lot of people, when they find that out, they, it's
something that they definitely didnot know because I think a lot of
vets that aren't doing the massivespay neuter or for the fix a feline.
They really don't wanna touch a catuntil they're like six months old.
And so I think people are under thattrain of thought that if the vet's
(03:49):
saying, okay, you can't come in to get itspayed or neutered until it's six months.
Then it can't get pregnantuntil it's six months.
And that's definitely not true.
So I do find, when I tell people that it'slike a shock and they're like, okay, let
me go get 'em all spayed and neutered.
Rachel (04:03):
I know the stigma with spay and neuter of dogs and like how some
vets wanna wait for large breedsand , I guess I can understand
that I'm not necessarily a vet.
I feel like in a shelter environmentwe can't stick to that rule
because you just don't know.
Like when you're adopting itout, you really don't know.
And then if you adopt 'em out andyou say, Hey, you have to pay this
spay neuter deposit and come backwhen they're seven, eight months old,
(04:23):
once like the growth plates change.
But what if they don't?
And what if like you're sobogged down that you can't go
find them or go after them.
Or what if they moved and you can't?
So like I feel like in a shelterenvironment, you just can't wait.
But
I know some people find dogs orfind puppies I should say, or get
'em free off Facebook or whatever.
And sometimes those vets push'em to wait, but I feel like.
(04:47):
Should you use your best judgment,
Dixie (04:49):
right
Rachel (04:49):
Like they did come seek you for health and for care for their animal,
but are you 110% positive, they'regonna come back and spay and neuter
it like when they're responsible?
Dixie (04:59):
Yeah.
Now I just saw something too, andit's one thing that I didn't know.
It was a graphic and it saidthat when a female cat goes into
heat, she will typically stayin heat until she's mated or
pregnant.
Rachel (05:14):
Oh.
Dixie (05:14):
So I didn't know that..
Now, of course, this isthe graphic that I saw.
I don't know how true it is, but
Rachel (05:21):
I feel like that makes sense because well, on the amount of kittens
that we have right now that we're dealingwith, but it's always hot in Louisiana,
Dixie (05:29):
right
Rachel (05:29):
So I feel like.
How would a male not find them?
If they can smell a female and heatup to three miles, I'm sure they're
gonna find it within a couple days.
Yeah.
I don't know, but I guess like in ashelter environment sometimes, like we
have, moms that we have with kittensthat like will hold them and let
'em nurse and like you can tell whenthey go into heat, but I don't know.
(05:52):
I guess we've never been told by ourvet that I know whenever they're in
heat and they fix 'em so say we hada mom Ellie, and when she got fixed,
like she had six kittens that we took.
We took all of them 'causewe wanna fix the mom.
And when she did get spayed, shewas in, heat and I expected that.
But I guess I wonder if thesymptoms were always there.
She was always likesassy, like she hated it.
Dixie (06:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (06:13):
But, that makes me think about my neighbor.
I had the one neighbor that did notget their cat fixed and they called me
and they're like, she's being so mean.
And she's probably about, five, sixmonths old and she's so sweet normally,
and she's so great with our kids, andall of a sudden she's just slapping them.
I was like she's probably inheat, sure enough, it's crazy.
They paid like $2,000 for thisragdoll cat, but they like asked
(06:36):
me to help get it fixed for free.
Yeah.
They're not my neighbors anymore.
Thank me.
Dixie (06:42):
So any specific topics you would like to talk about today?
Rachel (06:47):
I wanna talk about pregnant spays.
I think it's like a thing that alot of people don't know about.
There are some people that have somecontroversial feelings about it and
they feel like it's abortion and.
that's their right to believe that,but until you're like in our position
where you're being outnumbered andthere just simply aren't enough
(07:10):
homes, I mean that, that's gotta bethe same way for foster children.
There foster children in thesystem and there just aren't enough
good homes that can take them in.
So that's the same thing with animals.
If we aren't doing pregnantspays, which is where.
a veterinarian spays an animal, and thenthey also usually give like a little
bit of euthasol to each fetus to makesure that they humanely pass away.
(07:33):
It sucks, but one, you're making toomany animals, but two, like , you're
essentially breeding, in my opinion.
You're taking away homes for fiveother dogs or five other, cats
that are already born and waiting.
So you're just making theproblem worse than it already is.
And there's a lot of rescues.
Not a lot, I should say a handful, acouple that I know that were very into
(07:58):
the puppy craze, like they all wanted allthe puppies and one rescue had a volunteer
come by or come through Jefferson Feed.
And she was talking to me one day, 'causeI guess I had my Jefferson, SPCA shirt on
and we were just talking about rescue andhow long we've been doing it and such.
And I made a comment ofy'all have a lot of puppies.
And she said, yeah, that's my job.
(08:18):
She's I'm one of the volunteers thatlike, would drive all over Louisiana,
taking all the pregnant dogs.
So it's like the shelters knewto reach out to that rescue
because they wanted pregnant dogs.
And so she was driving all overgetting these mutts from whenever,
you don't know who the parentsare, you don't know anything.
All you know is they're pregnant.
(08:39):
And I think she said she'dfostered a couple times, but when
I said, I don't agree with that.
I'd have to do a pregnant spay.
And she's wait, dogsdidn't have an abortion.
I was like if you wanna call it that,I guess she's but wait, is there
like a morning after pill for it?
And I was like, oh Lord.
So I was just really shocked.
(08:59):
'cause she was like, Idon't wanna say she was old.
She was probably like maybe mid fifties.
Maybe she didn't haveto work, which is nice.
But I was just shocked thatshe never thought that like a
pregnant spay was an option.
And I didn't talk to thatrescue or anything like that.
It's their rescue, it's theirchoice how they want to do it.
Just in my opinion in Jefferson Parish youhave to have a breeder's permit to breed
(09:24):
more than one accidentally litter a year.
If you were going to other parishesoutside of Jefferson Parish, outside
of helping your own community toget all these pregnant dogs, and
you're bringing 'em back herebecause you know they're pregnant
and you're letting 'em give birth.
That's not an accident.
So I feel like they should be fine.
(09:44):
I think it's like a thousand dollars ifyou have more than one litter a year.
But there's a new dog that we have andthe Jefferson, SPCA, his name is Kobe,
although we wanna change his name toTigger 'cause he has the perfect bounce.
Like he is just boing boing boing.
And he's probably like an8-year-old rat terrier mix.
And Martha, our volunteer dog adoptioncoordinator, went to meet him last
(10:07):
week to pull him and mark him for us.
And they brought him to us Monday orTuesday this week, I can't remember.
And Martha texted me, she said,Hey I'm like, she's off today.
She's Hey, when you get a chance, canyou look at the medical record and see
when he needs heartworm prevention justto make sure I keep him on schedule.
And he came in January 10th of thisyear and he's a small rat terrier
(10:30):
and nothing's wrong with him.
So why is this 8-year-old, 15pound dog sitting in the shelter
for five months with no adoption?
That's just very weird.
That's very weird.
He's very sweet, loves people.
The boing thing is hilarious,but it just blew my mind.
'cause usually small dogslike fly out the shelter.
(10:52):
But is it because he's gotlike some gray on his face?
'cause he's eight years old 'causehe's not like super beautiful
'cause he is not a puppy.
But here you are breeding these,you find this rat terrier mom thing
that has puppies or is pregnant.
You let her have five puppies andthen you just took away home from him.
So I feel like, people havethat discussion or like, how
(11:12):
do I have so many old dogs?
Like old dogs are my heart.
Like I just, I love seniordogs, like old geriatric blind.
I just love all of it.
But I just think about the ones thatget passed over all the time because
everyone wants, oh, the puppy.
It's just so sad.
Like why does that puppy deserve love?
And all the excitement and this old dogdoesn't, I just, that breaks my heart.
(11:36):
Like I wish that we could teachpeople to get out of the hole.
Kittens are everything.
Puppies are everything.
When people come in screaming,oh my God, look at the kittens.
We do have cute kittens.
I'm fostering a litter right now.
They're pretty freaking cute.
I get it.
Like I, I don't want to foster, but I am.
'cause I wanna help my team, but Ijust wish we could change that whole
(11:56):
stigma of thinking that everything'sall about kittens and puppies.
Dixie (12:00):
And there's enough out there that people could just foster.
'cause I guess that aggravates metoo, is people who wanna adopt a puppy
or a kitten, and then they're like,oh, let me keep it for three months.
Oh yeah, he's not cute anymore.
Can you take him back?
Rachel (12:20):
Yep.
Dixie (12:20):
And that makes it more difficult.
It'd just be better off ifyou just fostered and there
is a shortage of fosters.
Rachel (12:27):
Yeah.
But it's very hard to fosterfail, I'd have to say.
Rebecca's our queen of foster failure.
Although I think Beth's trying to beather all of a sudden her husband's doing
like a new documentary series on YouTubeand he made this whole like thing about
how all the kittens they fostered andthe ones they foster failed on, and they
have this new one that like fell out ofa car engine that somebody found after
they left an event of ours on Saturday.
(12:48):
Like a singleton.
And he has a broken leg.
That's the worst part.
He's a four week oldkitten and he has a old Dr.
Wisdom said an old fracture.
What's an old fracture ona four week old kitten?
Dixie (13:01):
Right.
What happened that he got that
Rachel (13:03):
No telling.
So we're just letting him play.
He's healing.
He might have a bum leg with arthritis,but so far she thinks he's not, that he
hopefully won't be an expensive kitten.
But Beth's husband's already likeleaning towards maybe we need a six cat.
And I'm like, y'all arebecoming bad fosters.
Dixie (13:17):
It's
gonna be a tripod.
Oh yeah.
Rachel (13:19):
They're like, and they're normally good.
And she's even fostereda pair Nemo and Nigel.
I did, I don't remember if Nemo, Iknow Nemo lost a leg, but I don't
remember Nigel had something specialabout him, but she let them go.
The foster had to come to her house,like the adopter had to come to her
house and she had to fill everything out.
I processed the application, but shedid the adoption at her house and
she let them go, and I was shocked.
(13:40):
So she's really one of our good fosters.
She's not a foster failure.
But it is hard, but youhave to make that decision.
I have dogs, so I can't keep 'em becausenot all my dogs are cat friendly.
There's no way 15 dogsare all cat friendly.
But I wanna I've already startedpromoting 'em for adoption because
I want people to fall in love whilethey're cute and I could give it to you
as soon as it's two pounds and fixed.
But it just, it stinks.
Dixie (14:02):
Yeah.
That's what I try to pushthe pre adoptions to.
So at least that way, as soon as they'respayed or neutered, they go out the
door and then you can help some more.
Rachel (14:11):
Yeah, the puppies I feel like oftentimes at the shelter,
like if the accidents happenand they, they do give birth.
'Cause they they didn't spay the mombefore it happened, like how many times,
like it's very frequent that they'll findthat dog five and six months later stray.
So many people want puppies andthen once they, they grow up,
they don't want 'em anymore.
(14:32):
And you know that rescue that waswell known for it, if you looked at
their Petfinder, it was like all thesejuvenile dogs, like people passed
him over 'cause they weren't likereally what they were looking for.
'Cause they were all mutts.
Like you didn't know who the dad was,you didn't know where he came from.
And it just think if they didn't letthose dogs give birth in the first place,
(14:54):
there would not be fivejuvenile dogs thatpeople are, weren't super interested in.
Like they're probablythe sweetest dogs ever.
It's not that they don't deserve achance or a home, but you just created
a need for five more homes and youshouldn't have that's not rescue,
and I found that article, like I waslooking up on UC Davis's website.
(15:17):
Let me see if I can find it.
And I get like the whole feelingsabout it and you don't wanna have
to like spay a pregnant animal.
This one was like a question fromlike a shelter person, and she was
like a shelter manager and she said,like we're an open admission shelter.
We have periodically we findourselves into a situation where
we have a pregnant animal and someof our staff is just so against it.
What can I do to help themunderstand that we're overpopulated.
(15:41):
One of the veterinarians respondedthat lemme make this a little bigger
'cause my eyes are still blind.
So there's no fetal sufferingduring pregnant spay.
So while it's a fetus and while it's inutero, there's no pain, no suffering,
they're unconscious the entire time.
So nothing is gonna happen.
Nothing is gonna hurt that fetus.
If they're euthanizing it before birth.
(16:03):
So there's no pain to that fetus accordingto this veterinary thing from UC Davis.
I guess the other questionI couldn't find anything.
I was looking for some of it to find ifthere was something about the disconnect.
A lot of people will say that mom'sgonna miss her babies, or she's gonna
know and she's gonna be suffering.
But for the most part, like Ihaven't found like an official
source from a vet written.
(16:24):
Most vets are like, it's not like that.
They said usually as far as cats, if sheraises a litter of kittens, so she has
those five kittens that she's raising andthey're already like, walking, talking,
whatever, and she does get pregnant again.
She automatically goes to protectthe ones that are inside of her and
she no longer cares about the onesthat are outside and raised, like
there's no feelings at that point.
She's just protecting herselfand the new ones and she
(16:46):
doesn't care about the old ones.
So from my understanding is that theydon't have that emotional like connection.
If you take their babies and kittensit, like it's a human action.
It's a human emotion that weare like reflecting on them.
Dixie (17:00):
You mean when you take 'em in utero?
Rachel (17:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like they're gonna they'regonna know they had an abortion
and they're gonna miss him.
I don't think that,
Dixie (17:09):
Right now, see, I find it different when they actually do give birth, if you
take their babies, they go around verydistraught looking for their babies.
Rachel (17:19):
Yeah.
Dixie (17:21):
So don't take baby kittens unless you know the mama is not around.
If something happened to themama, then that's another story.
But
Rachel (17:28):
yeah,
Dixie (17:29):
Most of the time mama is around.
You can watch 'em.
And see if she returns.
And if she doesn't return for 10hours, then you have a problem.
But
Rachel (17:38):
shoot, you say 10 hours.
I say 48.
If she didn't feel like theplace that she picked was safe
enough, she might be looking foranother safe place to move 'em.
I say as long as they're notsitting in like a wet puddle.
Something that's dangerous or wide open.
I feel like they're okay.
Dixie (17:54):
Yeah.
Rachel (17:54):
Some people are like, the sun.
I'm like, I know, but kittensneed to be like, what?
130 degrees?
Dixie (17:58):
And I guess I'm saying that from a very like tiny perspective,
like a, week old newborns.
Rachel (18:05):
Yeah.
Dixie (18:05):
I'm a bottle feeder and a lot of people even say, Hey,
you gotta bottle feed thesenewborn kittens every two hours.
And I do.
But you gotta think when it's mama's milk,mama's not doing that every two hours.
Rachel (18:18):
No,
Dixie (18:18):
you'll
never see mama with thekittens for every two hours.
It's not like she walksaround with a stopwatch.
It's oh, it's two hours.
I gotta go back and be with the kittens,
Rachel (18:26):
I think, rabbits, I think you only have to do every 12 hours.
So I'm like, I could bottle feed somerabbits, but don't sign me up for that.
But yeah, like I think if they're alreadyborn, she's definitely looking for 'em.
But I don't think, even.
Say she got pregnant again.
I think like she wouldn't, so maybeif in a rescue situation, like I
did return three moms this week.
I swear I'm not a monster, butthe people that were feeding the
(18:47):
two adults, they wanted them back.
And the other one, shejust really hated us.
Dixie (18:50):
Yeah.
Rachel (18:51):
Like my caretakers, really were like attached and, I get that.
But she was just slapping us and she'dhad, like inconsistent stools for a month.
And we've thrown every dewormer, everyantibiotic, every topical dewormer.
Oral dewormer, everything.
It was just not getting better.
And I was like, I think it's just stress.
I think she does not want to be here.
She does not wanna be in a cage.
Who wants to be in a cage?
(19:12):
I don't, it's not like I wanna keepanimals in a cage, but she's very
unhappy in a cage compared to theother 60 cats we have in cages.
Like we take 'em out and theyplay and run and things like that.
'cause we have the twoplayrooms in our areas.
But she was just miserableand she just kept slapping me.
And her feeder was very safe.
They bring the cats inside at night.
(19:32):
They have a covered patiobetween the house and their shed.
They also have this huge giantshed and they're well cared for.
So like why that's one lessanimal I had to find a home for.
'cause I'm already like strugglingthinking about the 55 kittens
I need to find homes for.
Like that was a safeplace to put her back.
And they did.
They did take good, very good care of her.
(19:52):
She showed up actually that had never seenher before and she showed up and then got
in the routine with the other two catsand then gave birth in their dining room.
She was probably from somewhereelse and found a safe place to
have them and didn't realize it.
So they might not even see her, butshe's, back where she came from.
Ear tipped.
Dixie (20:07):
Yeah, no more babies for her.
Rachel (20:08):
Yeah.
So that's my rule.
If you want me to help you with kittensor a litter of kittens, I have to have
the mom like, I can't continue this cycle.
I.
The current litter ofkittens I have right now.
There was a trapper went out, Karen , andshe got the mom and she said Hey, can you
foster these kittens for a little while?
I'll take over.
And I was like, I'll take them permanentlyto foster 'cause I want you trapping.
(20:31):
And she also caught two other adultfemales from that same colony.
And they were both pregnant.
Dixie (20:36):
Yeah.
Rachel (20:37):
So they had pregnant spays and, the feeder was grateful.
She just didn't realizethat she could have had.
Three would've went to 18 that quickly.
And she said it was sad, but at thesame time, like trying to find homes
for 15 cats, she understood it.
So I think it just, we just need to talkabout it more, is the pregnant spay.
It's not like the fetuses don'tfeel it, I don't think there's
(20:58):
any pain or anything like that.
That maybe there's somediscomfort for the mom.
I don't think she really knows them yet.
'cause they're not born,it's a judgment call.
I think you have to look at the bigpicture as far as like the homes, like me
thinking about that Rat Terrier sittingin Jefferson Parish Animal shelter now
(21:19):
JPAWS since January 10th and everyonelooking him over 'cause , he's eight.
Not that cute.
And he's a small dog.
He is only 15 pounds, 16.25
or something.
And he got passed over becauseeverybody wants a puppy.
I think we just need to change thatstigma and learn as rescue, that pregnant
space are very important and that we needto get on board with them, and we need
(21:42):
to find homes for the animals that arealready here that we had no control over.
Dixie (21:46):
Yeah.
It's heartbreaking, but atthe same time it's the truth.
You're gonna have that many more.
I know my cousin had reached out tome a couple of months ago, and she
had a bunch of cats show up by her.
Most of 'em, luckily they were already.
TNR.
So she had a male.
We got the male done, and then it waslike, I guess a couple months after this,
(22:09):
she's they have two females over here.
And she's they're both really big.
She's I think they're pregnant.
And I was like, okay, I'll getyou the appointment right away.
And I'm like, I'll give you the traps.
Go ahead and catch 'em and get 'em in.
And she's but what if they're pregnant?
And I was like , if they're pregnant,they're gonna have four to five each.
(22:29):
So I'm like, do you want10 more cats around?
And so she took 'em in and it was, eachone of them, I believe, had five kittens,
. So that would've been, 10 extra cats.
And that's that many morethat you have to feed too.
Rachel (22:45):
Yeah.
Dixie (22:46):
Even if you planned on, neutering and spaying them too.
Still, that's 10 cats.
That's a lot.
Rachel (22:52):
And the weight, they get bigger and bigger.
Like feeding kittens kittenfood is more expensive and you
do go through a lot more of it.
So it can be just expensiveas feeding, 10 adults.
Dixie (23:00):
Oh definitely
Rachel (23:00):
but
I think there is there's a little bitof a disconnect or like an illness.
There is a feeder that we know ofand he discloses to us that where
he feeds, he takes the kittens home.
So he lives out of Jefferson Parish,so I don't have any control over him.
But I'm trying to figure out wherehe feeds in Jefferson Parish so I
can go over there and trap and likefigure out if it's public property or
(23:22):
private property so I can intervene.
Because I can't imagine likewhat's happening in his house,
like he's taking them all home.
'cause he is I just can't fix 'em andI can't have them abort the babies.
That's just so sad.
But he is taken him to his house andI don't think he's getting 'em fixed.
So I don't know how many he has.
I helped a couple not that longago, that had 42 in their house.
Dixie (23:42):
Oh wow.
Rachel (23:43):
Yeah.
And some of the adult femalesthey gave me were pregnant.
Dixie (23:46):
Oh wow.
Oh my gosh.
Rachel (23:47):
So he didn't know, but like he could touch most of 'em.
Like he put 'em in the traps.
I just brought the traps and I met 'emoutside of his house and I let him take
the traps in and place the cats in 'em.
And then it was just unreal.
And he said at first, it started atthis little colony that he fed by work
and oh, they had a litter of kittensand so he just took those four home.
And then just kept on going and oh, thatmom had another, so took those four home.
(24:08):
It just kept on going until the pointwhere he had 42 cats in his house,
unfixed, the colony, had his work unfixed,and it was about to get really bad.
Dixie (24:15):
Yeah.
I can't imagine the number that,that could have turned into.
Quickly,
Rachel (24:21):
imagine feeding 42 cats.
He was talking about how much catfood he goes through and then he is
keeping 'em inside because he doesn'twanna, that's the best way to keep
him safe is to keep him inside.
But like the amount of litter he wasgoing through, the amount of cat food
he was going through, like he said,we just they're making ends meet.
And all I could think about is like,how much more money could you have if
you didn't let that get out of hand?
Especially in Jefferson Parish,
Dixie (24:42):
right
Rachel (24:43):
I could make your spay neuter of your cat free.
That is not a problem.
Also you don't realize the, evenof diseases you're spreading by
not having the span neuter done.
Like having it repeatthe cycle over and over.
Like if they're unhealthy cats, if there'ssomething like parasites and stuff, you're
just spreading it and making it worse.
More cats there are like,they're more unhealthy.
, It's really hard to keep thatmany cats healthy and safe.
(25:06):
flea prevention, some.
Dewormers, all that.
It gets expensive, liketo think about that.
So you really have to clear your mindand think about what you're doing.
And while you think, spaying andneutering them, or doing a pregnant
spay is more harm than good, but youcould be doing like so much worse
to them that you can't afford thesituation you're got yourself into.
So now you're neglectingthe animals that you have.
(25:29):
You can't even give themlike the parasites, the flea
preventions, all that stuff.
. But you just have to thinkabout all the things, like you
have to think the big picture.
You can't think oh, I just don'twanna hurt these five cats right
now, or I don't wanna abort these.
You just have to keep thinking how much,like you said, the cost is gonna go up.
What's the kind of careyou're gonna provide for them?
Where are you gonna findall these good homes?
I adopted a cat to a person thatfound a litter of kittens and I
(25:53):
didn't wanna hurt her feelings,so I let her keep one kitten.
She messaged me two days ago thatshe hasn't seen her in a couple days.
I waived the adoption fee 'cause she's theone that found the kittens . And I said,
I had never found the mom that's on me.
I did leave knockers door knockerseverywhere and no one ever seen that mom.
I found like a dad I found a male catin the neighborhood and he had eartips.
(26:14):
I really don't know where she came from.
Like I rode around, I onlyfound one other person that
feeds in the whole neighborhoodand , they weren't feeding either.
The mom had 'em behind a house that wasbeing built, like it was a vacant house.
It was like brand new,like studs and everything.
And the mom had the babies there and, Imade her sign the contract that she was
adopting it from me and I highlighted outin our contract, you have to keep it in.
(26:37):
You have to keep it inside all the time.
Dixie (26:39):
And just even thinking about putting a tiny baby outside like that.
I'm for indoor only.
Of course.
But if you were gonna put oneoutside, why would you put a
tiny baby like that outside?
That's like throwing a 2-year-old outside.
Rachel (26:53):
Yeah.
She's about six months old now.
I actually still have oneor two of her litter mates.
'Cause now they're not tinykittens, so nobody wants them.
But it's just like I told her not to.
And then like where you live,like the coyotes are everywhere.
Yeah.
We got, word that close to a localrescue that we know that's in River
Ridge has seen coyotes while they'reout walking the dogs in daylight.
(27:13):
So they're out there, it's just not safe.
And it breaks my heart becauseI'll let her keep that one cat.
And now it's like I'mbeating myself up for it.
I don't doubt that she loves it.
I don't doubt that.
Dixie (27:24):
Right.
Rachel (27:25):
But like I said, keep it inside.
I couldn't because shewants to go outside.
Dixie (27:28):
I
hate that.
I can't stand that when people say that.
Okay.
Because it's like I have a feral,like we couldn't touch him.
He lives inside now.
Rachel (27:39):
Yeah.
Dixie (27:39):
And it's especially like when they're inside,
they don't need to go outside.
If you let 'em outside, of course they'regonna wanna go outside after that.
But you can keep 'em in.
Rachel (27:49):
Yeah.
Oh, you can get 'em the rightentertainment, the right things,
enrichment
Dixie (27:53):
Uhhuh
Rachel (27:53):
to keep them inside.
So you can build a catio.
I don't know about, I mean I guess'cause I'm a cat person, but the ads
for Catios are just rolling through myFacebook, like all the catio companies,
and I think there's some guy locally thatwants to get in that business and he's
offering to do it at cost of materials.
If someone will come, let himbuild a catio that's like a castle.
Just to have experiments and thenalso have the pictures or whatever.
Dixie (28:16):
I might have to take 'em up on that.
On my house
Rachel (28:19):
So there's, there's just so many things you can do.
I just, I feel likethere's a lot of tools.
The internet's there, people like justuse it, and they sell those catios that
are like already built on Amazon thatyou can put together and you just put
it like on the outside of a window.
And I don't wanna say they're morethan a couple hundred dollars.
Dixie (28:35):
Yeah.
Another thing that you can do, this issomething that I did with one of my cats.
He would go to the backdoor and he would meow.
So we had a stroller.
We would bring him in a stroller.
Yes, I walk cats.
. And it's totally normal.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But he wanted to go outside,so we bought him one of
the two story things thatyou put the kittens in.
It's like the big cage,
Rachel (28:55):
yeah.
That's kinda how our cages are.
Dixie (28:56):
Yeah.
So
We got one of those, it was a metal oneand we just took the bottom part out.
So instead of it being on like the littleplastic stand, it was right on the grass.
So we would go outside andwe would carry 'em out.
We'd stick 'em in that.
And he was happy as could be,just to sit in the grass for a
little bit and just be in that.
It's not like he hadto go run around a lot.
Then we would bring himinside and he was safe.
(29:18):
Nothing could get him.
'cause it's a metal cage.
Rachel (29:20):
Yeah.
There was actually a lady I trappedfor and she said her cat wanted
to go outside and so she had himin a dog crate in the front yard.
And we were trapping cats.
And , she's don't mind me, I'm justgiving my cat some outside time.
And I was like, Hey, you'redoing the right thing there.
She was like, I don't want 'emto catch any infection from
all these stray cats out here.
So I thought it was prettycute, but especially in a colony
It was like a whole block.
And she's like right in the middle.
(29:41):
There's probably 40 or 50 cats.
So she was doing the right thing.
So it didn't get hurt.
But there, there are allthese things that you can do.
But I just, there's too many homelessanimals and I come across feeders
they don't reach out like untilthey have the 42 and they're like,
okay, we can't afford this anymore.
We're living paycheck to paycheck.
And then they asked for helpbecause they didn't wanna do the
pregnant spays, but like you just.
(30:03):
We have to get over that stigma.
Like we have to just think about themass amount of numbers of that we're
dealing with and do you know 20 friendsthat wanna adopt a kitten right now?
Do you know 20 people that you trustoff the top of your head that you
would give them a kitten to raise
right now?
Dixie (30:20):
I do have a question to ask you.
When you said that you dorequire people give you the mom
for a spay to take in kittens.
And I agree with that, but.
If you don't take those kittens in,does it concern you that those kittens
might not necessarily be spayed orneutered if they don't have the mom,
.? Rachel (30:39):
No, because I just don't think they're trying hard enough.
There's not a mom somewhere.
Unless you gimme a picture of a hit bycar cat, then maybe I'll believe you.
I talked to the girl that like, we'retaking a litter of kittens tomorrow.
She has the mom and she's turned themom into an indoor cat so I'm sure
she was somebody's displaced kitten
She said, she hasn't seen like a lotof stray cats as far as is there a
(31:02):
dad because it takes two to tango.
Dixie (31:03):
Yeah.
Rachel (31:04):
So she said she would keep an eye out and we would talk about
it and she could ride around herneighborhood and figure out like where.
She gave me her address and I knowthat I've trapped in that neighborhood
before, so there probably is like anew cat that showed up and, it just
wasn't fixed and that's how it happened,
That's the great thing about ourtrap map one of our volunteers lives
close to their end, so she'll checkand, we'll have more eyes on it.
(31:25):
But if they're not willing, toput in the work to make sure the
problem doesn't happen again.
I just don't have any compassion for you.
Like you're not helping the problem.
And I had a situation where a Facebookthing happened and it turns out
Rebecca was helping them thankfully.
And I think Rebecca actually even triedto get the mom herself and she said
(31:45):
it was very hard to trap and, thosepeople were trying to bottle feed,
but they couldn't because of theirjobs, which I totally understand.
And they brought thekittens to the shelter.
And Michelle called me andshe said, what would you do?
I said, do you want my honest opinion?
And I said, if you're overwhelmedand every one of your staff members
(32:07):
that knows how to bottle feed hasa litter of kittens, how can you
ask them to bottle feed seven more?
That's a lot.
If you're supposed to be feeding himevery two hours, by the time you feed
everyone, you're back to two hours.
It's been two hours to feed all seventhat you're just awake all the time.
And you have no mom and nothing.
(32:27):
And there was some kind of confusionin the whole situation because I think
that day they took in like 21 kittens.
I know like over a 10 day period,they took in 177 kittens at J Paws.
So I made her a post of to help outhey, like you have two hours people
if you don't want us to euthanizethese cats call the shelter.
We need you to step up within two hours.
(32:48):
We'll supply you with allthe KMR you're gonna need.
Like the staff is overwhelmed.
There's too many kittens,there's not enough care.
You have to think about.
That was the other thing thatthe UC Davis thing mentioned.
It was talking about why you shouldreally be pro pregnant spay is
because there really is not enough.
(33:08):
For shelters, for municipalshelters to do neonatal care.
It's not fair.
Like you're making it worse.
So if you're gonna let that mom be bornand then what if the mom gets sick?
Or what if, she's so weak andthe parasites like, there's
just not enough care to provide,there's just not enough staff.
There's simply is not.
If you're taking 177 kittensin, in 10 days, like that's
(33:29):
just a lot to keep your eyes on.
With two or three people thatare assigned to like the cat
area, like that's just a lot.
You have to think about the big picture.
The Post had all those people step up.
So they came I think theysplit 'em up into two.
Two.
Dixie (33:41):
Yep.
Rachel (33:42):
And one, so like they had somebody to take 'em on.
But it's hard for every litter whenyou're taking in 20 to 30 kittens a day.
Some of 'em are neonatals it'svery hard to find fosters for them.
Dixie (33:53):
I saw that post and I actually commented on that post.
'cause I told people that Iwould be more than willing to
teach them how to bottle feed.
Rachel (34:00):
Right.
Dixie (34:00):
Bring me the kitten, I'll show you what to do.
You got any questions?
You can text me even, when afteryou take the kittens and I have
a bottle feeding class and fosterclass that I'm gonna do with Rebecca.
Rachel (34:12):
Yeah.
Dixie (34:13):
And we actually got people signed up from that post.
So there are people that aregonna come, they wanna learn how
to bottle feed from that post.
So I think we got five people signed up.
So at least that's a good thing.
Rachel (34:25):
I hope that they come.
I hope more people arewilling and they learn.
It, it does take patience.
I am not a bottle feeder.
I can tell you that right now.
, I'll do it all day duringthe day while I'm at work.
I'm your girl, butovernight, I need my sleep.
Dixie (34:37):
Well if you're feeding them consistently during the day,
you can get some sleep at night.
So what I'll do is I'll have ababy monitor where I can hear 'em.
'cause if they wake up,then I know they're hungry.
Rachel (34:48):
If they start crying.
Yeah.
Dixie (34:48):
So if they start crying, then I know I gotta go feed 'em.
But otherwise I'll push it tofour or five hours at night.
Now I'm talking about one week oldkittens, once they reach like that.
Two weeks you go six hours.
Rachel (34:58):
Yeah.
Dixie (34:59):
As long as they're eating good and they're not sick now, if
they're sick, it's another story.
I had sick kittens last week thatwere six week olds and I was getting
up every two hours to feed 'em.
Yeah.
'cause they wouldn't eat.
So
Rachel (35:10):
Yeah, we've had a couple I've had to put my big girl panties on.
I don't like needles.
Needles are not my thing.
But if the vet is not open andAmelie and Rebecca are looking
at me like, fix this kitten.
I'm gonna do whatever.
Watch my kitten lady videos.
And I'm like sucking it up and I'm doingit And like I gave two kittens last week
or week before last B12 injections andlike they're both fine now, but oh my
(35:31):
God, like to warm it up, make sure I doit in the fluids and everything like that.
And the kittens are surviving.
They're okay.
They're playing androughhousing so it just depends.
But it's just a lot.
It's hard.
Like I would really try towait for the mom if I could.
Because when you're putting 'em in thatshelter environment there are already too
many and it's just like the care and likethe diseases and all that stuff like that.
(35:52):
It's just you're putting 'em at risk.
So while you think you're doinga good thing, you're already
overburdening a struggling system yeah.
Like I feel like a phonecall would be better.
If you have them and it'slike, what the situation?
What can we do?
What are some other options?
Or can you courtesy post this?
And maybe we can have fosters comeforward so like we don't have to, put
them the shelter, that kind of thing.
(36:13):
Maybe there needs to belike an emergency plan
if there'd be a Jefferson Parish emergencyline of bottle feeders on standby.
In case that happens.
Dixie (36:21):
Yeah.
You don't have that manybottle feeders though.
That's the whole thing.
And that's what kind of aggravates mewhen people just pick up the kittens
and they don't wanna to listen.
When you tell 'em, wait andmake sure that mom's not there.
I mean their situations Yes.
Where mom might be killed.
And so then you have to take thosekittens, or like you said, it
could be like a really bad rainand they're in a really bad spot.
(36:43):
But for the most part, justleave them be because there's
not enough bottle feeders around.
Rachel (36:48):
And then I know there's always that situation like where,
the mom will also leave him ifshe knows something's wrong.
We've had some we had one tabhe's alive, but holy cow, he has
all the things wrong with him.
He's like a munchkin cat.
He's tiny.
He's got stomatitis.
Like he has everything.
Thank God we found the besthome for him and they actually
adopted four kittens from us.
But super awesome family.
They have that many kids.
(37:09):
But they're financiallyable to take care of it.
Like you're thinking aboutthat mom's always best.
And then when you're taking 'em awayfrom them, like sometimes you're
taking away what they need to thrivethe most, like they're more healthy
if they're with the mom overall,
Dixie (37:22):
Yeah, definitely.
Rachel (37:24):
But the people that are having like the thing about pregnant spays,
someone blocked me over it, but Ijust, until you're in our shoes every
day begging for people to adopt ananimal and they only want the cute
kitten or puppy, it just, it stinks.
Dixie (37:42):
Yeah.
Rachel (37:42):
Yeah.
I just, I feel bad for the underdogs.
I feel bad for the ones thatare already there alive.
Just waiting for a home patiently.
And I also feel like adults,you know what you're getting.
You don't know, like I had that friendthat bought a dog and she paid for
this awesome dog trainer and allthese things for this beautiful dog
and, got him neutered and everything.
(38:03):
And then suddenly the aggression isso bad and they're even unable to
rehome him he was aggressive to humans.
Not even two years old andshe had to euthanize him.
Dixie (38:13):
Yeah.
It's a sad situation.
Rachel (38:15):
Yeah.
So it'd been so much betterto find a rescue of that
breed that you're looking for.
I know golden retrievers, that's whateverybody wants and those are a diamond
in the rough, it's hard to find.
There are not many of those in rescue.
But there is a rescue ofthe breed that she wanted.
One of our friends Holly at Trampled Rosethat I'm trying to make her come on here.
She loves that breed too,so she has a lot of 'em.
(38:37):
So I'm like, you could have thisBombproof dog and Holly's like a dog
trainer and so she'll know all theirquirks, like they're an adult and that
family's very heartbroken right now.
They're thinking right nowthey don't want another dog.
They went through all that for almost twoyears and end result had to euthanize him.
But I feel like peopleshould get over that.
You gotta have a puppy'cause you have to raise 'em.
'cause if you raise 'em, likeyou'll know how they are.
(38:57):
Yeah.
Like you don't know that.
You don't know what you're gonna get.
And some people don't realizeanimals can be on mental health meds.
Like they can be born with mental healthissues and have damaged brain and all
these different things or you don't know.
Who was there in the beginning,what nutrients the mom or
wasn't getting or whatever.
So you really don't know.
So you're better off having anadult that's been in a rescue
(39:20):
and in a foster home and theyprobably work with a dog trainer.
And you just know kids,cats, dogs, you just know,
Dixie (39:28):
Right And rescues know their animals.
Rachel (39:31):
Yeah.
They can make a recommendation andsay, okay this one's good for you.
This is a good fit.
This is not a good fit.
I had a lady that contacted methis week that wanted lemon.
She's our lemon squeezy.
We posted her she's an all blackcat, of course Rebecca trapped her.
Rebecca the cat tribethat keeps on giving.
And she turned out to be super sweet,like she was very sick and we were
just gonna nebulize her in the trap acouple times that day and then put her
(39:53):
back like we gave her a convenia shot.
Go back to where you came from.
We don't need more animals to adopt out.
And then they fell in love with her.
And she's super sweet, loves toplay, wants to be your best friend,
follows you anywhere and everywhere.
But don't pick her up.
She does not wanna be picked up.
And so I had somebody that emailedme because they wanted to adopt a
black cat because they know thatthere's like a stigma behind them.
(40:16):
And so I loved her for that.
And she said she has a2-year-old and a 4-year-old.
. And that's hard for me 'cause Iknow as at two and four you wanna
pick up and you wanna hold your cat,
Dixie (40:25):
right.
Rachel (40:26):
I know that Lemon does not like to be picked up and held.
I know that for a fact.
She scratched my9-year-old niece this week.
She scratched me last week.
Like she does not wanna be picked up.
It's not her thing.
And so she said, will you please keepus in consideration, for the future?
And I said, absolutely.
If I come across a Bombproofcat, I'll let you know.
The term bombproof set her off.
(40:48):
She was like really offended . AndI was like that's just the term.
Like my friend has a dog with a2-year-old and she calls her dog
Bombproof and she would leave her kidsalone with the dog, no questions asked.
And it's just a term like,it wasn't like offensive.
It's just like there are someanimals that will let you hold them,
snuggle 'em, do whatever with 'em.
And they don't care.
They don't react.
And those are the best ones for kids.
(41:09):
And so if I came across anothercat that like was, didn't care what
I did to him, then I'd be like,Hey, this is your cat, because
it just goes with theflow with whatever you do.
That's what I meant.
And she got totally offended and I typedup a well thought out email, replied back
to her and I hadn't heard back from her.
So the term bombproof.
Offended her.
(41:30):
But we do have two new kittens thatjust came from foster home that were
with children and dogs and cats.
And so they're pretty great.
And one of 'em was thefoster mom's favorite.
And so I left the door open.
I said, you can definitely come meetthem and sit in the playroom with
them and have your kids play withthem and see how they react and like.
If you're okay with it, if they biteor scratch, if your kid does the wrong
(41:52):
thing, like then I'm okay with it.
, My husband grew up with a dog andit bit him in the eye and actually
has like a bump on his eyelidthat he cannot wear contacts now.
But it's funny, it's because hehas that little bump in his eye
and his mom's it was Tim's fault.
He shouldn't have touched him.
Like not every parentis gonna be that way.
And say like the animal has boundaries andyou pushed it and this is what happened.
And like my dog Duke, I usedhim to dog test him with
(42:14):
cats and dogs and everything.
Like he's great.
But when I first got him, he was a terror.
He scared me.
And I remember my mom brought himto me and she's I can't believe
you're gonna keep this dog.
He's like screaming and barking andcrying in the kennel the whole way here.
And he bit my niece in the face . And myniece Sophie was like, it was my fault.
Like I totally did it.
I shouldn't have touched himthe way that I did, the way I
approached him, it wasn't his fault.
And so like my sister was like, it's fine.
(42:36):
It was her friend's dog.
She's it's fine.
I don't care.
Like I'm sure like she saidshe did something wrong.
I'm listen to my daughter and,but that lady still freaked out.
She was like, I just don't knowthat I'll come across a mom that's
always like you or a child that'sit was my fault and I did it wrong.
And she's scared.
She was like, I'm gonna get sued.
We're in this nice neighborhood,and I just, I can't, I'm scared.
(42:56):
And so she asked me to take him and Ilove him, so I'm like, thanks to my dog.
It's a hard decision, but I thinkadopting an adult animal whenever you
I know a lot of people get puppiesthinking like you raise 'em with your
kids and it'll be different and theremight be some science behind that.
I don't know.
My 9-year-old niece comesover and I have 15 dogs.
There's only one I don't allowaround her and it's a chihuahua.
(43:18):
But all the other ones I allow.
But the funny thing is, if I'm at herhouse and I bring the Chihuahua to
her house, I'll allow her around it.
He's just a jerk in our house.
Like I know everything about him.
I'm like, Hey, don't touch him right here.
Hey, don't touch this.
Hey, whenever you approach him,do this or Hey, he's blind.
Let him like feel you out or smell youout so he can feel comfortable first.
So like I know what I have in myadult dog, so I just think that,
(43:42):
people should stop at the puppy andkitten stigma and go for the adult.
If you are sitting there waitingfor those puppies to be born all
the time, that should really be.
Aborted because we're alreadyin an overpopulated system.
You don't know what you're gonna get.
Yeah.
Like that puppy, like you don'tknow, like you don't know anything
about if, especially these muttsthat they're finding all over
(44:04):
that were accidental litters.
You don't know what you're getting.
You have no clue.
Yeah.
So you're better off adoptingadult and letting that pregnant
spay happen and saving one that'salready here, waiting for a home.
Stop contributing to the overpopulation.
'cause if you as a rescueare not supporting pregnant
spays, you're a breeder.
(44:26):
That's the way I feel.
Dixie (44:28):
Thank you for coming on the show today.
Rachel (44:30):
No problem.
I'll think about the nexttopic and I'll come back.
I love it.
Dixie (44:34):
Yep.
You're a favorite, so please come back.
Rachel (44:36):
Definitely.
Thanks for having me.
Dixie (44:40):
And that's all the time we have for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
explore the world of animal rescue.
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
We are back with Rachelfrom the Jefferson, SPCA.
Everybody loved listeningto your shows before Rachel.
Rachel (00:15):
Thank you.
I hope they did.
I hope they felt my passion of how much Iwish that there was a shortage of animals.
Dixie (00:23):
Yeah.
Every rescue wishes fora shortage of animals.
Rachel (00:27):
I know.
I feel like this kitten season'shitting a little harder.
I feel like all rescues are feeling it.
I feel like the shelter'sfeeling it really bad.
I don't know.
I thought I went into thisand I had all the supplies.
'cause I know if you haveeverything and you're prepared,
usually it doesn't happen, right?
Knock on wood.
I haven't had panleuk, but there's acertain medicine you need and it's not
a medicine that our vet directly carries
Dixie (00:48):
Uhhuh.
Rachel (00:49):
And so I was like, I'm just gonna order it and let it sit in this cabinet.
And ever since I've had it.
I've never needed it.
Another rescues had to come run tome to borrow it, and I've had to give
that, and I ordered another one toreplace it, still sitting in the box.
So
Dixie (01:03):
that's
a good thing.
Rachel (01:05):
So I'm hoping that I thought if I had all the kittens supplies and
everything ready, I had clavamox andall the dewormers and everything that I
wouldn't get hit and they keep coming.
But I am sticking to my rule of I won'ttake kittens unless you have the mom too.
Singletons are different when theyfall out of cars and random, like
that's hard to say no because wedon't know where it came from.
(01:27):
Right.
But if someone's Hey, I have this litterof kids I found and I'm feeding 'em, and I
like take them in, I have to have the mom.
Dixie (01:35):
What do you do when they claim there is no mom around.
Rachel (01:40):
If there's a litter of kittens around and you say
there's no mom, I'll call bs.
Mama Cats tend to have their litteraway from where they normally feed.
We had the one with the lady that openedher laundry room right before Easter and
freaked out and found the kittens, andshe's I've never seen cats around here.
And that was because mama catstend to have 'em away from their
(02:01):
colonies because they wanna keep'em safe from the other adults.
So you can say the mom's notthere, but she put them there
on purpose to protect them.
I'll send a trapper out to go help andthat's what we did in that situation.
Or I dunno what to tell you.
You're not gonna get helpfrom me, I'll tell you that.
You have to keep looking for mom.
Cameras set a trap, figure it out.
(02:23):
Mama's around there somewhere,
Dixie (02:25):
right?
Yeah I'm the same way.
When they contact me and they wantme to take kittens, I'm sure I'll
take the kittens, but you gottago get that appointment first.
So far the ones that I have have beenreceptive, which is a good thing.
but you do get the ones that are like,oh, I'm on my third litter of kittens.
Rachel (02:42):
Like you don't understand.
But it was funny 'cause now thatyou say that we have Rebecca's
flyer for the TNR Academy.
It's taped on our wallinside Jefferson Feed.
And they had two EMS people that werewalking around, like through our cat
area, just like everybody comes in'cause it's like the petting zoo.
And they were reading her flyer andthey were like, wait four months.
(03:03):
Cats can get pregnant at four months.
And I guess, I would think like being aan EMT and a paramedic, they're educated
people, they're not, uneducated, but it'ssomething that they didn't even know.
I dunno.
I guess we just have to keep preachingit every day and every day until they
all realize, but they were just shockedand like they were just walking around
petting the cats and they were justdoing like hand sanitizer as they were
(03:25):
leaving and then just read that flyer,
Dixie (03:27):
I think that a lot of people, when they find that out, they, it's
something that they definitely didnot know because I think a lot of
vets that aren't doing the massivespay neuter or for the fix a feline.
They really don't wanna touch a catuntil they're like six months old.
And so I think people are under thattrain of thought that if the vet's
(03:49):
saying, okay, you can't come in to get itspayed or neutered until it's six months.
Then it can't get pregnantuntil it's six months.
And that's definitely not true.
So I do find, when I tell people that it'slike a shock and they're like, okay, let
me go get 'em all spayed and neutered.
Rachel (04:03):
I know the stigma with spay and neuter of dogs and like how some
vets wanna wait for large breedsand , I guess I can understand
that I'm not necessarily a vet.
I feel like in a shelter environmentwe can't stick to that rule
because you just don't know.
Like when you're adopting itout, you really don't know.
And then if you adopt 'em out andyou say, Hey, you have to pay this
spay neuter deposit and come backwhen they're seven, eight months old,
(04:23):
once like the growth plates change.
But what if they don't?
And what if like you're sobogged down that you can't go
find them or go after them.
Or what if they moved and you can't?
So like I feel like in a shelterenvironment, you just can't wait.
But
I know some people find dogs orfind puppies I should say, or get
'em free off Facebook or whatever.
And sometimes those vets push'em to wait, but I feel like.
(04:47):
Should you use your best judgment,
Dixie (04:49):
right
Rachel (04:49):
Like they did come seek you for health and for care for their animal,
but are you 110% positive, they'regonna come back and spay and neuter
it like when they're responsible?
Dixie (04:59):
Yeah.
Now I just saw something too, andit's one thing that I didn't know.
It was a graphic and it saidthat when a female cat goes into
heat, she will typically stayin heat until she's mated or
pregnant.
Rachel (05:14):
Oh.
Dixie (05:14):
So I didn't know that..
Now, of course, this isthe graphic that I saw.
I don't know how true it is, but
Rachel (05:21):
I feel like that makes sense because well, on the amount of kittens
that we have right now that we're dealingwith, but it's always hot in Louisiana,
Dixie (05:29):
right
Rachel (05:29):
So I feel like.
How would a male not find them?
If they can smell a female and heatup to three miles, I'm sure they're
gonna find it within a couple days.
Yeah.
I don't know, but I guess like in ashelter environment sometimes, like we
have, moms that we have with kittensthat like will hold them and let
'em nurse and like you can tell whenthey go into heat, but I don't know.
(05:52):
I guess we've never been told by ourvet that I know whenever they're in
heat and they fix 'em so say we hada mom Ellie, and when she got fixed,
like she had six kittens that we took.
We took all of them 'causewe wanna fix the mom.
And when she did get spayed, shewas in, heat and I expected that.
But I guess I wonder if thesymptoms were always there.
She was always likesassy, like she hated it.
Dixie (06:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (06:13):
But, that makes me think about my neighbor.
I had the one neighbor that did notget their cat fixed and they called me
and they're like, she's being so mean.
And she's probably about, five, sixmonths old and she's so sweet normally,
and she's so great with our kids, andall of a sudden she's just slapping them.
I was like she's probably inheat, sure enough, it's crazy.
They paid like $2,000 for thisragdoll cat, but they like asked
(06:36):
me to help get it fixed for free.
Yeah.
They're not my neighbors anymore.
Thank me.
Dixie (06:42):
So any specific topics you would like to talk about today?
Rachel (06:47):
I wanna talk about pregnant spays.
I think it's like a thing that alot of people don't know about.
There are some people that have somecontroversial feelings about it and
they feel like it's abortion and.
that's their right to believe that,but until you're like in our position
where you're being outnumbered andthere just simply aren't enough
(07:10):
homes, I mean that, that's gotta bethe same way for foster children.
There foster children in thesystem and there just aren't enough
good homes that can take them in.
So that's the same thing with animals.
If we aren't doing pregnantspays, which is where.
a veterinarian spays an animal, and thenthey also usually give like a little
bit of euthasol to each fetus to makesure that they humanely pass away.
(07:33):
It sucks, but one, you're making toomany animals, but two, like , you're
essentially breeding, in my opinion.
You're taking away homes for fiveother dogs or five other, cats
that are already born and waiting.
So you're just making theproblem worse than it already is.
And there's a lot of rescues.
Not a lot, I should say a handful, acouple that I know that were very into
(07:58):
the puppy craze, like they all wanted allthe puppies and one rescue had a volunteer
come by or come through Jefferson Feed.
And she was talking to me one day, 'causeI guess I had my Jefferson, SPCA shirt on
and we were just talking about rescue andhow long we've been doing it and such.
And I made a comment ofy'all have a lot of puppies.
And she said, yeah, that's my job.
(08:18):
She's I'm one of the volunteers thatlike, would drive all over Louisiana,
taking all the pregnant dogs.
So it's like the shelters knewto reach out to that rescue
because they wanted pregnant dogs.
And so she was driving all overgetting these mutts from whenever,
you don't know who the parentsare, you don't know anything.
All you know is they're pregnant.
(08:39):
And I think she said she'dfostered a couple times, but when
I said, I don't agree with that.
I'd have to do a pregnant spay.
And she's wait, dogsdidn't have an abortion.
I was like if you wanna call it that,I guess she's but wait, is there
like a morning after pill for it?
And I was like, oh Lord.
So I was just really shocked.
(08:59):
'cause she was like, Idon't wanna say she was old.
She was probably like maybe mid fifties.
Maybe she didn't haveto work, which is nice.
But I was just shocked thatshe never thought that like a
pregnant spay was an option.
And I didn't talk to thatrescue or anything like that.
It's their rescue, it's theirchoice how they want to do it.
Just in my opinion in Jefferson Parish youhave to have a breeder's permit to breed
(09:24):
more than one accidentally litter a year.
If you were going to other parishesoutside of Jefferson Parish, outside
of helping your own community toget all these pregnant dogs, and
you're bringing 'em back herebecause you know they're pregnant
and you're letting 'em give birth.
That's not an accident.
So I feel like they should be fine.
(09:44):
I think it's like a thousand dollars ifyou have more than one litter a year.
But there's a new dog that we have andthe Jefferson, SPCA, his name is Kobe,
although we wanna change his name toTigger 'cause he has the perfect bounce.
Like he is just boing boing boing.
And he's probably like an8-year-old rat terrier mix.
And Martha, our volunteer dog adoptioncoordinator, went to meet him last
(10:07):
week to pull him and mark him for us.
And they brought him to us Monday orTuesday this week, I can't remember.
And Martha texted me, she said,Hey I'm like, she's off today.
She's Hey, when you get a chance, canyou look at the medical record and see
when he needs heartworm prevention justto make sure I keep him on schedule.
And he came in January 10th of thisyear and he's a small rat terrier
(10:30):
and nothing's wrong with him.
So why is this 8-year-old, 15pound dog sitting in the shelter
for five months with no adoption?
That's just very weird.
That's very weird.
He's very sweet, loves people.
The boing thing is hilarious,but it just blew my mind.
'cause usually small dogslike fly out the shelter.
(10:52):
But is it because he's gotlike some gray on his face?
'cause he's eight years old 'causehe's not like super beautiful
'cause he is not a puppy.
But here you are breeding these,you find this rat terrier mom thing
that has puppies or is pregnant.
You let her have five puppies andthen you just took away home from him.
So I feel like, people havethat discussion or like, how
(11:12):
do I have so many old dogs?
Like old dogs are my heart.
Like I just, I love seniordogs, like old geriatric blind.
I just love all of it.
But I just think about the ones thatget passed over all the time because
everyone wants, oh, the puppy.
It's just so sad.
Like why does that puppy deserve love?
And all the excitement and this old dogdoesn't, I just, that breaks my heart.
(11:36):
Like I wish that we could teachpeople to get out of the hole.
Kittens are everything.
Puppies are everything.
When people come in screaming,oh my God, look at the kittens.
We do have cute kittens.
I'm fostering a litter right now.
They're pretty freaking cute.
I get it.
Like I, I don't want to foster, but I am.
'cause I wanna help my team, but Ijust wish we could change that whole
(11:56):
stigma of thinking that everything'sall about kittens and puppies.
Dixie (12:00):
And there's enough out there that people could just foster.
'cause I guess that aggravates metoo, is people who wanna adopt a puppy
or a kitten, and then they're like,oh, let me keep it for three months.
Oh yeah, he's not cute anymore.
Can you take him back?
Rachel (12:20):
Yep.
Dixie (12:20):
And that makes it more difficult.
It'd just be better off ifyou just fostered and there
is a shortage of fosters.
Rachel (12:27):
Yeah.
But it's very hard to fosterfail, I'd have to say.
Rebecca's our queen of foster failure.
Although I think Beth's trying to beather all of a sudden her husband's doing
like a new documentary series on YouTubeand he made this whole like thing about
how all the kittens they fostered andthe ones they foster failed on, and they
have this new one that like fell out ofa car engine that somebody found after
they left an event of ours on Saturday.
(12:48):
Like a singleton.
And he has a broken leg.
That's the worst part.
He's a four week oldkitten and he has a old Dr.
Wisdom said an old fracture.
What's an old fracture ona four week old kitten?
Dixie (13:01):
Right.
What happened that he got that
Rachel (13:03):
No telling.
So we're just letting him play.
He's healing.
He might have a bum leg with arthritis,but so far she thinks he's not, that he
hopefully won't be an expensive kitten.
But Beth's husband's already likeleaning towards maybe we need a six cat.
And I'm like, y'all arebecoming bad fosters.
Dixie (13:17):
It's
gonna be a tripod.
Oh yeah.
Rachel (13:19):
They're like, and they're normally good.
And she's even fostereda pair Nemo and Nigel.
I did, I don't remember if Nemo, Iknow Nemo lost a leg, but I don't
remember Nigel had something specialabout him, but she let them go.
The foster had to come to her house,like the adopter had to come to her
house and she had to fill everything out.
I processed the application, but shedid the adoption at her house and
she let them go, and I was shocked.
(13:40):
So she's really one of our good fosters.
She's not a foster failure.
But it is hard, but youhave to make that decision.
I have dogs, so I can't keep 'em becausenot all my dogs are cat friendly.
There's no way 15 dogsare all cat friendly.
But I wanna I've already startedpromoting 'em for adoption because
I want people to fall in love whilethey're cute and I could give it to you
as soon as it's two pounds and fixed.
But it just, it stinks.
Dixie (14:02):
Yeah.
That's what I try to pushthe pre adoptions to.
So at least that way, as soon as they'respayed or neutered, they go out the
door and then you can help some more.
Rachel (14:11):
Yeah, the puppies I feel like oftentimes at the shelter,
like if the accidents happenand they, they do give birth.
'Cause they they didn't spay the mombefore it happened, like how many times,
like it's very frequent that they'll findthat dog five and six months later stray.
So many people want puppies andthen once they, they grow up,
they don't want 'em anymore.
(14:32):
And you know that rescue that waswell known for it, if you looked at
their Petfinder, it was like all thesejuvenile dogs, like people passed
him over 'cause they weren't likereally what they were looking for.
'Cause they were all mutts.
Like you didn't know who the dad was,you didn't know where he came from.
And it just think if they didn't letthose dogs give birth in the first place,
(14:54):
there would not be fivejuvenile dogs thatpeople are, weren't super interested in.
Like they're probablythe sweetest dogs ever.
It's not that they don't deserve achance or a home, but you just created
a need for five more homes and youshouldn't have that's not rescue,
and I found that article, like I waslooking up on UC Davis's website.
(15:17):
Let me see if I can find it.
And I get like the whole feelingsabout it and you don't wanna have
to like spay a pregnant animal.
This one was like a question fromlike a shelter person, and she was
like a shelter manager and she said,like we're an open admission shelter.
We have periodically we findourselves into a situation where
we have a pregnant animal and someof our staff is just so against it.
What can I do to help themunderstand that we're overpopulated.
(15:41):
One of the veterinarians respondedthat lemme make this a little bigger
'cause my eyes are still blind.
So there's no fetal sufferingduring pregnant spay.
So while it's a fetus and while it's inutero, there's no pain, no suffering,
they're unconscious the entire time.
So nothing is gonna happen.
Nothing is gonna hurt that fetus.
If they're euthanizing it before birth.
(16:03):
So there's no pain to that fetus accordingto this veterinary thing from UC Davis.
I guess the other questionI couldn't find anything.
I was looking for some of it to find ifthere was something about the disconnect.
A lot of people will say that mom'sgonna miss her babies, or she's gonna
know and she's gonna be suffering.
But for the most part, like Ihaven't found like an official
source from a vet written.
(16:24):
Most vets are like, it's not like that.
They said usually as far as cats, if sheraises a litter of kittens, so she has
those five kittens that she's raising andthey're already like, walking, talking,
whatever, and she does get pregnant again.
She automatically goes to protectthe ones that are inside of her and
she no longer cares about the onesthat are outside and raised, like
there's no feelings at that point.
She's just protecting herselfand the new ones and she
(16:46):
doesn't care about the old ones.
So from my understanding is that theydon't have that emotional like connection.
If you take their babies and kittensit, like it's a human action.
It's a human emotion that weare like reflecting on them.
Dixie (17:00):
You mean when you take 'em in utero?
Rachel (17:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like they're gonna they'regonna know they had an abortion
and they're gonna miss him.
I don't think that,
Dixie (17:09):
Right now, see, I find it different when they actually do give birth, if you
take their babies, they go around verydistraught looking for their babies.
Rachel (17:19):
Yeah.
Dixie (17:21):
So don't take baby kittens unless you know the mama is not around.
If something happened to themama, then that's another story.
But
Rachel (17:28):
yeah,
Dixie (17:29):
Most of the time mama is around.
You can watch 'em.
And see if she returns.
And if she doesn't return for 10hours, then you have a problem.
But
Rachel (17:38):
shoot, you say 10 hours.
I say 48.
If she didn't feel like theplace that she picked was safe
enough, she might be looking foranother safe place to move 'em.
I say as long as they're notsitting in like a wet puddle.
Something that's dangerous or wide open.
I feel like they're okay.
Dixie (17:54):
Yeah.
Rachel (17:54):
Some people are like, the sun.
I'm like, I know, but kittensneed to be like, what?
130 degrees?
Dixie (17:58):
And I guess I'm saying that from a very like tiny perspective,
like a, week old newborns.
Rachel (18:05):
Yeah.
Dixie (18:05):
I'm a bottle feeder and a lot of people even say, Hey,
you gotta bottle feed thesenewborn kittens every two hours.
And I do.
But you gotta think when it's mama's milk,mama's not doing that every two hours.
Rachel (18:18):
No,
Dixie (18:18):
you'll
never see mama with thekittens for every two hours.
It's not like she walksaround with a stopwatch.
It's oh, it's two hours.
I gotta go back and be with the kittens,
Rachel (18:26):
I think, rabbits, I think you only have to do every 12 hours.
So I'm like, I could bottle feed somerabbits, but don't sign me up for that.
But yeah, like I think if they're alreadyborn, she's definitely looking for 'em.
But I don't think, even.
Say she got pregnant again.
I think like she wouldn't, so maybeif in a rescue situation, like I
did return three moms this week.
I swear I'm not a monster, butthe people that were feeding the
(18:47):
two adults, they wanted them back.
And the other one, shejust really hated us.
Dixie (18:50):
Yeah.
Rachel (18:51):
Like my caretakers, really were like attached and, I get that.
But she was just slapping us and she'dhad, like inconsistent stools for a month.
And we've thrown every dewormer, everyantibiotic, every topical dewormer.
Oral dewormer, everything.
It was just not getting better.
And I was like, I think it's just stress.
I think she does not want to be here.
She does not wanna be in a cage.
Who wants to be in a cage?
(19:12):
I don't, it's not like I wanna keepanimals in a cage, but she's very
unhappy in a cage compared to theother 60 cats we have in cages.
Like we take 'em out and theyplay and run and things like that.
'cause we have the twoplayrooms in our areas.
But she was just miserableand she just kept slapping me.
And her feeder was very safe.
They bring the cats inside at night.
(19:32):
They have a covered patiobetween the house and their shed.
They also have this huge giantshed and they're well cared for.
So like why that's one lessanimal I had to find a home for.
'cause I'm already like strugglingthinking about the 55 kittens
I need to find homes for.
Like that was a safeplace to put her back.
And they did.
They did take good, very good care of her.
(19:52):
She showed up actually that had never seenher before and she showed up and then got
in the routine with the other two catsand then gave birth in their dining room.
She was probably from somewhereelse and found a safe place to
have them and didn't realize it.
So they might not even see her, butshe's, back where she came from.
Ear tipped.
Dixie (20:07):
Yeah, no more babies for her.
Rachel (20:08):
Yeah.
So that's my rule.
If you want me to help you with kittensor a litter of kittens, I have to have
the mom like, I can't continue this cycle.
I.
The current litter ofkittens I have right now.
There was a trapper went out, Karen , andshe got the mom and she said Hey, can you
foster these kittens for a little while?
I'll take over.
And I was like, I'll take them permanentlyto foster 'cause I want you trapping.
(20:31):
And she also caught two other adultfemales from that same colony.
And they were both pregnant.
Dixie (20:36):
Yeah.
Rachel (20:37):
So they had pregnant spays and, the feeder was grateful.
She just didn't realizethat she could have had.
Three would've went to 18 that quickly.
And she said it was sad, but at thesame time, like trying to find homes
for 15 cats, she understood it.
So I think it just, we just need to talkabout it more, is the pregnant spay.
It's not like the fetuses don'tfeel it, I don't think there's
(20:58):
any pain or anything like that.
That maybe there's somediscomfort for the mom.
I don't think she really knows them yet.
'cause they're not born,it's a judgment call.
I think you have to look at the bigpicture as far as like the homes, like me
thinking about that Rat Terrier sittingin Jefferson Parish Animal shelter now
(21:19):
JPAWS since January 10th and everyonelooking him over 'cause , he's eight.
Not that cute.
And he's a small dog.
He is only 15 pounds, 16.25
or something.
And he got passed over becauseeverybody wants a puppy.
I think we just need to change thatstigma and learn as rescue, that pregnant
space are very important and that we needto get on board with them, and we need
(21:42):
to find homes for the animals that arealready here that we had no control over.
Dixie (21:46):
Yeah.
It's heartbreaking, but atthe same time it's the truth.
You're gonna have that many more.
I know my cousin had reached out tome a couple of months ago, and she
had a bunch of cats show up by her.
Most of 'em, luckily they were already.
TNR.
So she had a male.
We got the male done, and then it waslike, I guess a couple months after this,
(22:09):
she's they have two females over here.
And she's they're both really big.
She's I think they're pregnant.
And I was like, okay, I'll getyou the appointment right away.
And I'm like, I'll give you the traps.
Go ahead and catch 'em and get 'em in.
And she's but what if they're pregnant?
And I was like , if they're pregnant,they're gonna have four to five each.
(22:29):
So I'm like, do you want10 more cats around?
And so she took 'em in and it was, eachone of them, I believe, had five kittens,
. So that would've been, 10 extra cats.
And that's that many morethat you have to feed too.
Rachel (22:45):
Yeah.
Dixie (22:46):
Even if you planned on, neutering and spaying them too.
Still, that's 10 cats.
That's a lot.
Rachel (22:52):
And the weight, they get bigger and bigger.
Like feeding kittens kittenfood is more expensive and you
do go through a lot more of it.
So it can be just expensiveas feeding, 10 adults.
Dixie (23:00):
Oh definitely
Rachel (23:00):
but
I think there is there's a little bitof a disconnect or like an illness.
There is a feeder that we know ofand he discloses to us that where
he feeds, he takes the kittens home.
So he lives out of Jefferson Parish,so I don't have any control over him.
But I'm trying to figure out wherehe feeds in Jefferson Parish so I
can go over there and trap and likefigure out if it's public property or
(23:22):
private property so I can intervene.
Because I can't imagine likewhat's happening in his house,
like he's taking them all home.
'cause he is I just can't fix 'em andI can't have them abort the babies.
That's just so sad.
But he is taken him to his house andI don't think he's getting 'em fixed.
So I don't know how many he has.
I helped a couple not that longago, that had 42 in their house.
Dixie (23:42):
Oh wow.
Rachel (23:43):
Yeah.
And some of the adult femalesthey gave me were pregnant.
Dixie (23:46):
Oh wow.
Oh my gosh.
Rachel (23:47):
So he didn't know, but like he could touch most of 'em.
Like he put 'em in the traps.
I just brought the traps and I met 'emoutside of his house and I let him take
the traps in and place the cats in 'em.
And then it was just unreal.
And he said at first, it started atthis little colony that he fed by work
and oh, they had a litter of kittensand so he just took those four home.
And then just kept on going and oh, thatmom had another, so took those four home.
(24:08):
It just kept on going until the pointwhere he had 42 cats in his house,
unfixed, the colony, had his work unfixed,and it was about to get really bad.
Dixie (24:15):
Yeah.
I can't imagine the number that,that could have turned into.
Quickly,
Rachel (24:21):
imagine feeding 42 cats.
He was talking about how much catfood he goes through and then he is
keeping 'em inside because he doesn'twanna, that's the best way to keep
him safe is to keep him inside.
But like the amount of litter he wasgoing through, the amount of cat food
he was going through, like he said,we just they're making ends meet.
And all I could think about is like,how much more money could you have if
you didn't let that get out of hand?
Especially in Jefferson Parish,
Dixie (24:42):
right
Rachel (24:43):
I could make your spay neuter of your cat free.
That is not a problem.
Also you don't realize the, evenof diseases you're spreading by
not having the span neuter done.
Like having it repeatthe cycle over and over.
Like if they're unhealthy cats, if there'ssomething like parasites and stuff, you're
just spreading it and making it worse.
More cats there are like,they're more unhealthy.
, It's really hard to keep thatmany cats healthy and safe.
(25:06):
flea prevention, some.
Dewormers, all that.
It gets expensive, liketo think about that.
So you really have to clear your mindand think about what you're doing.
And while you think, spaying andneutering them, or doing a pregnant
spay is more harm than good, but youcould be doing like so much worse
to them that you can't afford thesituation you're got yourself into.
So now you're neglectingthe animals that you have.
(25:29):
You can't even give themlike the parasites, the flea
preventions, all that stuff.
. But you just have to thinkabout all the things, like you
have to think the big picture.
You can't think oh, I just don'twanna hurt these five cats right
now, or I don't wanna abort these.
You just have to keep thinking how much,like you said, the cost is gonna go up.
What's the kind of careyou're gonna provide for them?
Where are you gonna findall these good homes?
I adopted a cat to a person thatfound a litter of kittens and I
(25:53):
didn't wanna hurt her feelings,so I let her keep one kitten.
She messaged me two days ago thatshe hasn't seen her in a couple days.
I waived the adoption fee 'cause she's theone that found the kittens . And I said,
I had never found the mom that's on me.
I did leave knockers door knockerseverywhere and no one ever seen that mom.
I found like a dad I found a male catin the neighborhood and he had eartips.
(26:14):
I really don't know where she came from.
Like I rode around, I onlyfound one other person that
feeds in the whole neighborhoodand , they weren't feeding either.
The mom had 'em behind a house that wasbeing built, like it was a vacant house.
It was like brand new,like studs and everything.
And the mom had the babies there and, Imade her sign the contract that she was
adopting it from me and I highlighted outin our contract, you have to keep it in.
(26:37):
You have to keep it inside all the time.
Dixie (26:39):
And just even thinking about putting a tiny baby outside like that.
I'm for indoor only.
Of course.
But if you were gonna put oneoutside, why would you put a
tiny baby like that outside?
That's like throwing a 2-year-old outside.
Rachel (26:53):
Yeah.
She's about six months old now.
I actually still have oneor two of her litter mates.
'Cause now they're not tinykittens, so nobody wants them.
But it's just like I told her not to.
And then like where you live,like the coyotes are everywhere.
Yeah.
We got, word that close to a localrescue that we know that's in River
Ridge has seen coyotes while they'reout walking the dogs in daylight.
(27:13):
So they're out there, it's just not safe.
And it breaks my heart becauseI'll let her keep that one cat.
And now it's like I'mbeating myself up for it.
I don't doubt that she loves it.
I don't doubt that.
Dixie (27:24):
Right.
Rachel (27:25):
But like I said, keep it inside.
I couldn't because shewants to go outside.
Dixie (27:28):
I
hate that.
I can't stand that when people say that.
Okay.
Because it's like I have a feral,like we couldn't touch him.
He lives inside now.
Rachel (27:39):
Yeah.
Dixie (27:39):
And it's especially like when they're inside,
they don't need to go outside.
If you let 'em outside, of course they'regonna wanna go outside after that.
But you can keep 'em in.
Rachel (27:49):
Yeah.
Oh, you can get 'em the rightentertainment, the right things,
enrichment
Dixie (27:53):
Uhhuh
Rachel (27:53):
to keep them inside.
So you can build a catio.
I don't know about, I mean I guess'cause I'm a cat person, but the ads
for Catios are just rolling through myFacebook, like all the catio companies,
and I think there's some guy locally thatwants to get in that business and he's
offering to do it at cost of materials.
If someone will come, let himbuild a catio that's like a castle.
Just to have experiments and thenalso have the pictures or whatever.
Dixie (28:16):
I might have to take 'em up on that.
On my house
Rachel (28:19):
So there's, there's just so many things you can do.
I just, I feel likethere's a lot of tools.
The internet's there, people like justuse it, and they sell those catios that
are like already built on Amazon thatyou can put together and you just put
it like on the outside of a window.
And I don't wanna say they're morethan a couple hundred dollars.
Dixie (28:35):
Yeah.
Another thing that you can do, this issomething that I did with one of my cats.
He would go to the backdoor and he would meow.
So we had a stroller.
We would bring him in a stroller.
Yes, I walk cats.
. And it's totally normal.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But he wanted to go outside,so we bought him one of
the two story things thatyou put the kittens in.
It's like the big cage,
Rachel (28:55):
yeah.
That's kinda how our cages are.
Dixie (28:56):
Yeah.
So
We got one of those, it was a metal oneand we just took the bottom part out.
So instead of it being on like the littleplastic stand, it was right on the grass.
So we would go outside andwe would carry 'em out.
We'd stick 'em in that.
And he was happy as could be,just to sit in the grass for a
little bit and just be in that.
It's not like he hadto go run around a lot.
Then we would bring himinside and he was safe.
(29:18):
Nothing could get him.
'cause it's a metal cage.
Rachel (29:20):
Yeah.
There was actually a lady I trappedfor and she said her cat wanted
to go outside and so she had himin a dog crate in the front yard.
And we were trapping cats.
And , she's don't mind me, I'm justgiving my cat some outside time.
And I was like, Hey, you'redoing the right thing there.
She was like, I don't want 'emto catch any infection from
all these stray cats out here.
So I thought it was prettycute, but especially in a colony
It was like a whole block.
And she's like right in the middle.
(29:41):
There's probably 40 or 50 cats.
So she was doing the right thing.
So it didn't get hurt.
But there, there are allthese things that you can do.
But I just, there's too many homelessanimals and I come across feeders
they don't reach out like untilthey have the 42 and they're like,
okay, we can't afford this anymore.
We're living paycheck to paycheck.
And then they asked for helpbecause they didn't wanna do the
pregnant spays, but like you just.
(30:03):
We have to get over that stigma.
Like we have to just think about themass amount of numbers of that we're
dealing with and do you know 20 friendsthat wanna adopt a kitten right now?
Do you know 20 people that you trustoff the top of your head that you
would give them a kitten to raise
right now?
Dixie (30:20):
I do have a question to ask you.
When you said that you dorequire people give you the mom
for a spay to take in kittens.
And I agree with that, but.
If you don't take those kittens in,does it concern you that those kittens
might not necessarily be spayed orneutered if they don't have the mom,
.? Rachel (30:39):
No, because I just don't think they're trying hard enough.
There's not a mom somewhere.
Unless you gimme a picture of a hit bycar cat, then maybe I'll believe you.
I talked to the girl that like, we'retaking a litter of kittens tomorrow.
She has the mom and she's turned themom into an indoor cat so I'm sure
she was somebody's displaced kitten
She said, she hasn't seen like a lotof stray cats as far as is there a
(31:02):
dad because it takes two to tango.
Dixie (31:03):
Yeah.
Rachel (31:04):
So she said she would keep an eye out and we would talk about
it and she could ride around herneighborhood and figure out like where.
She gave me her address and I knowthat I've trapped in that neighborhood
before, so there probably is like anew cat that showed up and, it just
wasn't fixed and that's how it happened,
That's the great thing about ourtrap map one of our volunteers lives
close to their end, so she'll checkand, we'll have more eyes on it.
(31:25):
But if they're not willing, toput in the work to make sure the
problem doesn't happen again.
I just don't have any compassion for you.
Like you're not helping the problem.
And I had a situation where a Facebookthing happened and it turns out
Rebecca was helping them thankfully.
And I think Rebecca actually even triedto get the mom herself and she said
(31:45):
it was very hard to trap and, thosepeople were trying to bottle feed,
but they couldn't because of theirjobs, which I totally understand.
And they brought thekittens to the shelter.
And Michelle called me andshe said, what would you do?
I said, do you want my honest opinion?
And I said, if you're overwhelmedand every one of your staff members
(32:07):
that knows how to bottle feed hasa litter of kittens, how can you
ask them to bottle feed seven more?
That's a lot.
If you're supposed to be feeding himevery two hours, by the time you feed
everyone, you're back to two hours.
It's been two hours to feed all seventhat you're just awake all the time.
And you have no mom and nothing.
(32:27):
And there was some kind of confusionin the whole situation because I think
that day they took in like 21 kittens.
I know like over a 10 day period,they took in 177 kittens at J Paws.
So I made her a post of to help outhey, like you have two hours people
if you don't want us to euthanizethese cats call the shelter.
We need you to step up within two hours.
(32:48):
We'll supply you with allthe KMR you're gonna need.
Like the staff is overwhelmed.
There's too many kittens,there's not enough care.
You have to think about.
That was the other thing thatthe UC Davis thing mentioned.
It was talking about why you shouldreally be pro pregnant spay is
because there really is not enough.
(33:08):
For shelters, for municipalshelters to do neonatal care.
It's not fair.
Like you're making it worse.
So if you're gonna let that mom be bornand then what if the mom gets sick?
Or what if, she's so weak andthe parasites like, there's
just not enough care to provide,there's just not enough staff.
There's simply is not.
If you're taking 177 kittensin, in 10 days, like that's
(33:29):
just a lot to keep your eyes on.
With two or three people thatare assigned to like the cat
area, like that's just a lot.
You have to think about the big picture.
The Post had all those people step up.
So they came I think theysplit 'em up into two.
Two.
Dixie (33:41):
Yep.
Rachel (33:42):
And one, so like they had somebody to take 'em on.
But it's hard for every litter whenyou're taking in 20 to 30 kittens a day.
Some of 'em are neonatals it'svery hard to find fosters for them.
Dixie (33:53):
I saw that post and I actually commented on that post.
'cause I told people that Iwould be more than willing to
teach them how to bottle feed.
Rachel (34:00):
Right.
Dixie (34:00):
Bring me the kitten, I'll show you what to do.
You got any questions?
You can text me even, when afteryou take the kittens and I have
a bottle feeding class and fosterclass that I'm gonna do with Rebecca.
Rachel (34:12):
Yeah.
Dixie (34:13):
And we actually got people signed up from that post.
So there are people that aregonna come, they wanna learn how
to bottle feed from that post.
So I think we got five people signed up.
So at least that's a good thing.
Rachel (34:25):
I hope that they come.
I hope more people arewilling and they learn.
It, it does take patience.
I am not a bottle feeder.
I can tell you that right now.
, I'll do it all day duringthe day while I'm at work.
I'm your girl, butovernight, I need my sleep.
Dixie (34:37):
Well if you're feeding them consistently during the day,
you can get some sleep at night.
So what I'll do is I'll have ababy monitor where I can hear 'em.
'cause if they wake up,then I know they're hungry.
Rachel (34:48):
If they start crying.
Yeah.
Dixie (34:48):
So if they start crying, then I know I gotta go feed 'em.
But otherwise I'll push it tofour or five hours at night.
Now I'm talking about one week oldkittens, once they reach like that.
Two weeks you go six hours.
Rachel (34:58):
Yeah.
Dixie (34:59):
As long as they're eating good and they're not sick now, if
they're sick, it's another story.
I had sick kittens last week thatwere six week olds and I was getting
up every two hours to feed 'em.
Yeah.
'cause they wouldn't eat.
So
Rachel (35:10):
Yeah, we've had a couple I've had to put my big girl panties on.
I don't like needles.
Needles are not my thing.
But if the vet is not open andAmelie and Rebecca are looking
at me like, fix this kitten.
I'm gonna do whatever.
Watch my kitten lady videos.
And I'm like sucking it up and I'm doingit And like I gave two kittens last week
or week before last B12 injections andlike they're both fine now, but oh my
(35:31):
God, like to warm it up, make sure I doit in the fluids and everything like that.
And the kittens are surviving.
They're okay.
They're playing androughhousing so it just depends.
But it's just a lot.
It's hard.
Like I would really try towait for the mom if I could.
Because when you're putting 'em in thatshelter environment there are already too
many and it's just like the care and likethe diseases and all that stuff like that.
(35:52):
It's just you're putting 'em at risk.
So while you think you're doinga good thing, you're already
overburdening a struggling system yeah.
Like I feel like a phonecall would be better.
If you have them and it'slike, what the situation?
What can we do?
What are some other options?
Or can you courtesy post this?
And maybe we can have fosters comeforward so like we don't have to, put
them the shelter, that kind of thing.
(36:13):
Maybe there needs to belike an emergency plan
if there'd be a Jefferson Parish emergencyline of bottle feeders on standby.
In case that happens.
Dixie (36:21):
Yeah.
You don't have that manybottle feeders though.
That's the whole thing.
And that's what kind of aggravates mewhen people just pick up the kittens
and they don't wanna to listen.
When you tell 'em, wait andmake sure that mom's not there.
I mean their situations Yes.
Where mom might be killed.
And so then you have to take thosekittens, or like you said, it
could be like a really bad rainand they're in a really bad spot.
(36:43):
But for the most part, justleave them be because there's
not enough bottle feeders around.
Rachel (36:48):
And then I know there's always that situation like where,
the mom will also leave him ifshe knows something's wrong.
We've had some we had one tabhe's alive, but holy cow, he has
all the things wrong with him.
He's like a munchkin cat.
He's tiny.
He's got stomatitis.
Like he has everything.
Thank God we found the besthome for him and they actually
adopted four kittens from us.
But super awesome family.
They have that many kids.
(37:09):
But they're financiallyable to take care of it.
Like you're thinking aboutthat mom's always best.
And then when you're taking 'em awayfrom them, like sometimes you're
taking away what they need to thrivethe most, like they're more healthy
if they're with the mom overall,
Dixie (37:22):
Yeah, definitely.
Rachel (37:24):
But the people that are having like the thing about pregnant spays,
someone blocked me over it, but Ijust, until you're in our shoes every
day begging for people to adopt ananimal and they only want the cute
kitten or puppy, it just, it stinks.
Dixie (37:42):
Yeah.
Rachel (37:42):
Yeah.
I just, I feel bad for the underdogs.
I feel bad for the ones thatare already there alive.
Just waiting for a home patiently.
And I also feel like adults,you know what you're getting.
You don't know, like I had that friendthat bought a dog and she paid for
this awesome dog trainer and allthese things for this beautiful dog
and, got him neutered and everything.
(38:03):
And then suddenly the aggression isso bad and they're even unable to
rehome him he was aggressive to humans.
Not even two years old andshe had to euthanize him.
Dixie (38:13):
Yeah.
It's a sad situation.
Rachel (38:15):
Yeah.
So it'd been so much betterto find a rescue of that
breed that you're looking for.
I know golden retrievers, that's whateverybody wants and those are a diamond
in the rough, it's hard to find.
There are not many of those in rescue.
But there is a rescue ofthe breed that she wanted.
One of our friends Holly at Trampled Rosethat I'm trying to make her come on here.
She loves that breed too,so she has a lot of 'em.
(38:37):
So I'm like, you could have thisBombproof dog and Holly's like a dog
trainer and so she'll know all theirquirks, like they're an adult and that
family's very heartbroken right now.
They're thinking right nowthey don't want another dog.
They went through all that for almost twoyears and end result had to euthanize him.
But I feel like peopleshould get over that.
You gotta have a puppy'cause you have to raise 'em.
'cause if you raise 'em, likeyou'll know how they are.
(38:57):
Yeah.
Like you don't know that.
You don't know what you're gonna get.
And some people don't realizeanimals can be on mental health meds.
Like they can be born with mental healthissues and have damaged brain and all
these different things or you don't know.
Who was there in the beginning,what nutrients the mom or
wasn't getting or whatever.
So you really don't know.
So you're better off having anadult that's been in a rescue
(39:20):
and in a foster home and theyprobably work with a dog trainer.
And you just know kids,cats, dogs, you just know,
Dixie (39:28):
Right And rescues know their animals.
Rachel (39:31):
Yeah.
They can make a recommendation andsay, okay this one's good for you.
This is a good fit.
This is not a good fit.
I had a lady that contacted methis week that wanted lemon.
She's our lemon squeezy.
We posted her she's an all blackcat, of course Rebecca trapped her.
Rebecca the cat tribethat keeps on giving.
And she turned out to be super sweet,like she was very sick and we were
just gonna nebulize her in the trap acouple times that day and then put her
(39:53):
back like we gave her a convenia shot.
Go back to where you came from.
We don't need more animals to adopt out.
And then they fell in love with her.
And she's super sweet, loves toplay, wants to be your best friend,
follows you anywhere and everywhere.
But don't pick her up.
She does not wanna be picked up.
And so I had somebody that emailedme because they wanted to adopt a
black cat because they know thatthere's like a stigma behind them.
(40:16):
And so I loved her for that.
And she said she has a2-year-old and a 4-year-old.
. And that's hard for me 'cause Iknow as at two and four you wanna
pick up and you wanna hold your cat,
Dixie (40:25):
right.
Rachel (40:26):
I know that Lemon does not like to be picked up and held.
I know that for a fact.
She scratched my9-year-old niece this week.
She scratched me last week.
Like she does not wanna be picked up.
It's not her thing.
And so she said, will you please keepus in consideration, for the future?
And I said, absolutely.
If I come across a Bombproofcat, I'll let you know.
The term bombproof set her off.
(40:48):
She was like really offended . AndI was like that's just the term.
Like my friend has a dog with a2-year-old and she calls her dog
Bombproof and she would leave her kidsalone with the dog, no questions asked.
And it's just a term like,it wasn't like offensive.
It's just like there are someanimals that will let you hold them,
snuggle 'em, do whatever with 'em.
And they don't care.
They don't react.
And those are the best ones for kids.
(41:09):
And so if I came across anothercat that like was, didn't care what
I did to him, then I'd be like,Hey, this is your cat, because
it just goes with theflow with whatever you do.
That's what I meant.
And she got totally offended and I typedup a well thought out email, replied back
to her and I hadn't heard back from her.
So the term bombproof.
Offended her.
(41:30):
But we do have two new kittens thatjust came from foster home that were
with children and dogs and cats.
And so they're pretty great.
And one of 'em was thefoster mom's favorite.
And so I left the door open.
I said, you can definitely come meetthem and sit in the playroom with
them and have your kids play withthem and see how they react and like.
If you're okay with it, if they biteor scratch, if your kid does the wrong
(41:52):
thing, like then I'm okay with it.
, My husband grew up with a dog andit bit him in the eye and actually
has like a bump on his eyelidthat he cannot wear contacts now.
But it's funny, it's because hehas that little bump in his eye
and his mom's it was Tim's fault.
He shouldn't have touched him.
Like not every parentis gonna be that way.
And say like the animal has boundaries andyou pushed it and this is what happened.
And like my dog Duke, I usedhim to dog test him with
(42:14):
cats and dogs and everything.
Like he's great.
But when I first got him, he was a terror.
He scared me.
And I remember my mom brought himto me and she's I can't believe
you're gonna keep this dog.
He's like screaming and barking andcrying in the kennel the whole way here.
And he bit my niece in the face . And myniece Sophie was like, it was my fault.
Like I totally did it.
I shouldn't have touched himthe way that I did, the way I
approached him, it wasn't his fault.
And so like my sister was like, it's fine.
(42:36):
It was her friend's dog.
She's it's fine.
I don't care.
Like I'm sure like she saidshe did something wrong.
I'm listen to my daughter and,but that lady still freaked out.
She was like, I just don't knowthat I'll come across a mom that's
always like you or a child that'sit was my fault and I did it wrong.
And she's scared.
She was like, I'm gonna get sued.
We're in this nice neighborhood,and I just, I can't, I'm scared.
(42:56):
And so she asked me to take him and Ilove him, so I'm like, thanks to my dog.
It's a hard decision, but I thinkadopting an adult animal whenever you
I know a lot of people get puppiesthinking like you raise 'em with your
kids and it'll be different and theremight be some science behind that.
I don't know.
My 9-year-old niece comesover and I have 15 dogs.
There's only one I don't allowaround her and it's a chihuahua.
(43:18):
But all the other ones I allow.
But the funny thing is, if I'm at herhouse and I bring the Chihuahua to
her house, I'll allow her around it.
He's just a jerk in our house.
Like I know everything about him.
I'm like, Hey, don't touch him right here.
Hey, don't touch this.
Hey, whenever you approach him,do this or Hey, he's blind.
Let him like feel you out or smell youout so he can feel comfortable first.
So like I know what I have in myadult dog, so I just think that,
(43:42):
people should stop at the puppy andkitten stigma and go for the adult.
If you are sitting there waitingfor those puppies to be born all
the time, that should really be.
Aborted because we're alreadyin an overpopulated system.
You don't know what you're gonna get.
Yeah.
Like that puppy, like you don'tknow, like you don't know anything
about if, especially these muttsthat they're finding all over
(44:04):
that were accidental litters.
You don't know what you're getting.
You have no clue.
Yeah.
So you're better off adoptingadult and letting that pregnant
spay happen and saving one that'salready here, waiting for a home.
Stop contributing to the overpopulation.
'cause if you as a rescueare not supporting pregnant
spays, you're a breeder.
(44:26):
That's the way I feel.
Dixie (44:28):
Thank you for coming on the show today.
Rachel (44:30):
No problem.
I'll think about the nexttopic and I'll come back.
I love it.
Dixie (44:34):
Yep.
You're a favorite, so please come back.
Rachel (44:36):
Definitely.
Thanks for having me.
Dixie (44:40):
And that's all the time we have for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
explore the world of animal rescue.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com