September 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Dixie welcomes Ashley Gardenier, founder of Southern Paws Inc., for a powerful conversation about the deepening animal welfare crisis in the South. Ashley shares how a trip to Louisiana nearly 11 years ago opened her eyes to the stark differences in pet culture and shelter conditions compared to the North—where dogs are often treated as family, not just property. From overwhelmed shelters and high euthanasia rates to pandemic-era behavioral issues and economic hardship, Ashley explains why rescues are stretched to the breaking point. She also highlights how Southern Paws Inc. is responding with disaster relief, spay/neuter programs, and a new training center to help families keep their pets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dixie (00:02):
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Joining us today is Ashley Gardenier,an animal rescuer and dog trainer.
Welcome, Ashley.
Thank you for coming on the show.
Ashley (00:18):
You're welcome.
Dixie (00:19):
I'm excited to talk about your dog training and also your
animal rescue, Southern Paws Inc.
Ashley (00:28):
Yeah.
I'm super stoked.
, It's really great to be here.
. Where do you wanna start?
Dixie (00:32):
I wanna get into how dog training can help to keep dogs in homes,
but before we get into that, I wouldlike to know a little bit more about you.
If you could tell me a little bit aboutyour background, how you came to start
Southern Paws Inc, and also Oh, okay.
How you got involved in dog training.
Ashley (00:53):
Okay.
So, let's see.
I am almost 40 and . I started SouthernPaws, we're about to hit 11 years.
I have been in animal rescuenow going on 13 years.
And honestly it started I had gotten intovolunteering with a wildlife organization
(01:14):
and they had these connections toan organization in Louisiana called
the Humane Society of Louisiana.
And since Katrina, and they hadbeen trying to help them get lower
preventatives, like lower costpreventatives and helping them pay for
(01:34):
heart worm treatments and stuff like this.
And , the Humane Society had actually.
Come through and had nominatedus for thank yous pretty much
like , an achievement award, right?
And a thank you.
They were honoring us at this gala andI think I was like 25, 26 at the time.
And the owner of the organizationwas like, do you wanna go
(01:54):
to New Orleans for a week?
And I was like yes I do.
25, 26 me was like yes.
Put me in the car, let's go.
And that was how I got my first glimpseof dog rescue and things like, that
was my first transport I ever did.
And when I was down there I reallygot to see like firsthand what people
were experiencing in rescue in theSouth and just how different it was.
(02:18):
Like, it was just a big culture shock.
So.
After that I came home and Ijust couldn't sleep at night.
I was having a really hard time and I justreally felt like I needed to do something.
And at the time they werereally struggling with dogs that
needed heart worm treatments.
And I connected back with my mentor.
She actually has since passed away.
Her name is Johnna.
And I said to her like, Hey, Ihave this idea, like what if we
(02:40):
started this sponsorship program?
And that's how the heartwormsponsorship program was born.
And we ended up treating like 80 dogsin the course of three or four months.
And then that kind of snowballed becausethey had this hoarding case that they
had worked and Johnna needed somebodyto come down and help with transport.
And it was something I had always beenlike, oh yeah, I'll help with that.
(03:01):
That sounds cool.
And I ended up going down anddid my first transport and
then it just snowballed, right?
Johnna was telling me a lot about justhow northern organizations at the time,
and this is going back 12 years now.
Were really taking advantage of thesouthern organizations where they were
getting all of these animals like fullyvetted and like ready to be adopted.
(03:25):
The southern organizations that werereally in these like very rural like
poverty stricken areas that didn'thave the type of money that we had
up here were like putting everythingthey had into these transports.
They were able to run them like onceor twice a year, and they'd come up,
they'd give them these jobs, and thenthe rescues up here would turn around and
(03:48):
adopt 'em out for three, $400 a piece.
And I said they were trying to getlike this transport program up and
running, and I said, all right, wellwhat if we adopted a couple of dogs
off the truck to pay for the trip?
Could then, could you like do more?
And they were like, yeah.
So that's how it got started.
And after I would say like a year and ahalf, I really was just like, I had no
(04:10):
time and I was running out of money and Iwas like I really gotta do something here.
So I went to them and I said, listen,hey, like I either have to start taking a
paycheck or I have to get like a real job.
And they said, okay, wellwhat about, a commission?
And I was like, okay, fine.
And I got my first paycheckand I deposited in the bank
and opened up Southern Paws.
(04:30):
And now our organization, it'sa very small organization,
but it has this massive reach.
We have all kinds of different programs.
One of our main focuses ishelping to support our sister
organizations that we work with.
We do still work withHumane Side of Louisiana.
One of the board members there has alsostarted Mississippi Animal Project, which
has been our primary rescue for years.
(04:52):
But we've worked with otherrescues in Mississippi, Louisiana.
We've started spay and neuterprograms that give back to
the community down there.
We started disaster relief throughthe 2016 floods in Louisiana, in
Livingston and our partners downthere in assisting them, that's how
our disaster relief program was born.
And, it just snowballed.
(05:12):
We have our facility uphere, which is not a shelter.
We're a rescue based organization.
But we have our facilityspecifically for transport holds.
So when dogs come up, theystay with us for 24, 48 hours.
I make sure they've madeit through transport.
Okay.
They get groomed, they get medicated.
They get looked at by vet techsand staff members and making sure
(05:33):
that they came through everything.
Okay.
If anybody needs to go to the vet,they go to the vet, we do quite a
bit of pre-adoption, which meansthey're preselected before they even
come to the state of New Jersey.
And then we also have now transitionedwith the animal welfare crisis.
We've really started to transition intomore foster based stuff and working like
(05:54):
I would say the big theme for the lasttwo years has just been like adaptability.
And that's where.
The Northern Spay andneuter program was born.
We have Spay it Forward and thenwe also have the training center
now that we opened in September.
I figured that after all of thistime working with dogs, I mean
I've seen all of the things, right?
(06:15):
I have two trained therapy dogs thatI went through training with myself.
I've worked with pretty much everybehavioral case in the rescue.
I have a great support system whenit comes to a training network
of people that I really trust andwhose opinions I valued so highly.
And I had just seen like a lot of things.
And I had worked inthrough disaster relief.
(06:35):
I had also worked in differentshelters, I've also worked in the field
and had to work with dogs that wereterrified, in dangerous situations.
And I just figured Hey, Ihave this whole situation.
We had always said we wanted to havea training center, I just felt that
training was just so important aboutkeeping dogs in their homes and when
(06:56):
I didn't expect the upstairs of mybuilding to become available so quickly.
So like the timeline was very fast.
I was like, oh, well, yeah,I guess we're gonna do this.
And luckily during COVID I had this kindof dream that I wanted to branch out and
do more and like eventually have somesort of eventually have some sort of like
(07:17):
a property where I could do training andwe could have training and we could have
rescue and we could have adoptions and wecould have boarding, and all these things.
So during COVID we call it thepuppy boom, everybody was adopting.
I was smart enough to at leastput money away for that purpose.
And when the time presenteditself, I was like it's too good
of an opportunity to pass up.
(07:39):
Let's do it.
I'll get my training certification sothat I can at least say, I finally have
a piece of paper that says I can do whatI've been doing for the last, 12 years.
But now I have a piece of paper that saysso, and it was really cool 'cause it gave
me the opportunity to really understandthe like the evolution of dog training
as well as a lot of the principals, butyou don't necessarily know the principals
(08:00):
or like how they come about and like thepsychology of dogs and that kind of thing.
So I know it sounds long, but it'sactually like a quick snapshot.
It's just we do so much that, evenwhen you had reached out to me,
you were like, well what do you do?
And I was like, well, we doa little bit of everything.
Anytime we see a need, we tryto fill it and go from there.
Dixie (08:20):
That is a lot, but it gives us a lot to talk about, so that's good.
One thing that I wanna talk about, 'causeI hear about it, but I'm from the south.
I've been in animal rescue here forever.
What we have going on here is a normalthing for me because this is the
only place that I have ever lived.
I am used to multiple kitten seasons.
(08:41):
Like I understand that.
Oh yeah.
We have nonstop kitten seasons here andother areas are fortunate enough not
to, but explain what you mean by theculture shock in animal rescue here.
Ashley (08:53):
Well, so Dixie, where are you guys?
Dixie (08:57):
I'm in Louisiana, in New Orleans.
Ashley (08:58):
Okay.
Dixie (08:59):
Yeah.
And Oh, okay,
Ashley (09:00):
okay.
Yeah,
Dixie (09:01):
yeah.
I'm familiar with Humane Societyof Louisiana, so, I know, you
know a lot of people there.
Ashley (09:06):
We still work with them and we still do a lot of work with Livingston.
Dog people of Livingston ParishLanelle, who runs the fix.
The big clinics there.
I don't know if you knowabout that in Livingston.
Dixie (09:16):
No, I did not.
Ashley (09:18):
Anyway, yeah, this is like totally off topic, but yes.
I love Louisiana.
I feel like there's a part of methat just is always home there.
I don't know if you've ever felt that,like when you go outta state and you
have that one state, you just fall inlove so much with, and you always feel
like a part of you is always out there.
That's my Louisiana, newOrleans is my favorite city
but yeah, and I will say we'reseeing a little bit more of it now
(09:39):
because of the animal welfare crisisthat's been going on in the us.
But when I first started, first of all,we don't have dogs that are outside.
Like we, nobody has outsidedogs in Northern New Jersey,
New York, like tri-state area.
They don't like, if people's dogs areoutside, they get the police called.
Animal control gets called.
(09:59):
It's just not a thing.
We do have cats that like, Iknow like my neighbor's got a
cat that's an indoor outdoor cat.
And we do have feral cats.
We do have issues in this areaspecifically with like cats in general.
Like we do have a prettysolid kitten season.
There's actually a rescue Iwork with that's 20 minutes
from me 'cause we don't do cats.
And they've really done an amazing jobfocusing on spay and neuter and they're
(10:21):
finally starting to see some results,but they've been doing it for 10 years.
It's crazy but everybodyhere is a house pet.
That's the first thing.
We also all have fenced in yards,or we keep our dogs on leashes.
Nobody's animals really run wild.
And again, if you see a loosedog, like you call like the police
department or animal control, andyou're like, Hey, there's a dog,
(10:43):
and I think that to me was huge.
I remember driving around downthe road the first time I was in
either Louisiana or Mississippi.
And I was with Johnna my mentor andI'm driving their brand new transport
van, and I'm giggling because itwas just such a funny experience.
But I'm driving and there's a dog thatgoes darting into the middle of the
highway and I immediately slammed onthe brakes, pull over, and she looks
(11:08):
at me and she's what are you doing?
I was like, I gotta go get that dog.
There's a loose dog in Jersey,like we see a loose dog.
I got a leash in the car.
We got treats.
Like the whole neighborhoodis trying to get it.
Like we have dog trappers specificallyup here to find people's loose dogs.
And I just remember her looking at meand be like, you can't go take that dog.
(11:29):
And I was like, what do you mean?
She was like that's somebody's dog.
I was like, that's not somebody's dog.
It's running in the middle of the highway.
I almost just ran it over and she'slike, Ashley, you can't go take that dog.
So, that was really big.
I remember going to the the property thefirst time and there were like 80 dogs
on the property that all had heartworm.
And this was like the first time I hadever even heard of heartworm, aside
(11:52):
from the fact that oh, hey, we give ourdog a pill once a month to prevent it.
But I don't think any anybody,90% of us up here, really have,
unless you're in rescue and you'refamiliar with it because of rescue.
The average person hasno idea what that is.
So it was also my first time with that.
And I remember looking at oneof the members of the team and
(12:14):
being like, well, what's the deal?
And she was like, oh.
She's you see that row of dogs back there?
Yeah, they all have heartworm.
And I was like, okay.
What does that mean?
And they were like, well,we gotta get 'em treated.
And I was like, well, what happensif you don't get 'em treated?
And she's oh, they die.
And I was like, I'm sorry, what?
No.
She was like, yeah.
She was like, we're gonna treat them,but we have to get the money to do it.
(12:35):
At this point, we're just tryingto keep 'em comfortable until we
can get enough money to treat them.
And I was just like, I just rememberlike my mouth being on the floor and just
being like, that doesn't happen here.
That would never happen here.
Like never, there's just never aworld that we would live in the
Northeast where like the populationwouldn't rally of humans wouldn't,
(12:57):
rally together and help these dogs.
It was just baffling to me.
So those are the things, that we see,under that I saw that, understanding the
overpopulation problem, I was somebody whowas always like, not really understanding
of the shelter system, right?
I remember saying to Johnna well,why can't the shelter just take them?
And her trying to explain to me, openintake shelters and how they have a
(13:19):
commitment to the public that they haveto take things in, and how that ultimately
leads to the overpopulation issue,which leads to the high euthanization
rates, which again, up here, oureuthanization rates are not anywhere
near what they are down by you guys.
So, yeah, so I guess that's, thoseare some of the things that, we, I
(13:41):
really saw firsthand on that firstexperience that made me be like, somebody
needs to do something about this.
And then I was like, oh,I guess I miss somebody.
Dixie (13:52):
Yeah.
It is crazy how it is herebecause, I will say too the way
people look at spay neuter here.
It isn't like an educational thing.
It isn't an economical thing.
I know plenty professionals that don'tbelieve in spay neuter or just don't even
know about spay neuter, which to me it'sabsurd because, every animal that we've
had has always been spayed or neutered.
(14:13):
But here, I don't know what it is,there's plenty of people that can
afford to get it done that don't getit done, and there's plenty intelligent
people that still don't get it done.
So I don't really understand, howyou can even reach people more here
to get 'em on board with doing it.
Ashley (14:30):
So our biggest issue here is definitely the financial portion of it.
Like I'm about to blowyour mind right now.
An average spay and neuter in where,in Bergen County, New Jersey is going
to run you anywhere from 800 to $2,300.
Dixie (14:48):
Wow.
Ashley (14:51):
Yeah.
So we run a low cost spay and neuterprogram and our low cost, which
really is not really that low cost.
It's way better than that.
But our low cost program runsyou 250-450 I think it is.
So.
And that's considered low cost here.
So that's one of those needs in ourcommunity that we've been trying
(15:14):
to really give, like break intoand try and provide a solution for.
And it started actuallyin Louisiana during COVID.
I was really just feeling frustrated thatthe population numbers were, everybody's
getting adopted, we were moving everybodyout, but the numbers weren't dropping.
And I said, we have these financesrolling in from adoption fees and like
(15:38):
donors, we had big donors back then that,we weren't in the same like financial
crisis that we're in now, but we hada lot, we had a lot more money then.
And I said, it would be really cool ifwe could develop a program to give back.
To the communities that we'vebeen working with, for so long.
And Mississippi AnimalProject had a voucher program.
(16:01):
Humane Society, Louisiana had asmall voucher program and it was
actually another rescue in Louisiana.
Walking in the Sun, MindyDefender, I think is her last name.
She actually, and I were talking onenight just girl chat, like gossiping
and like whatever, and complainingabout, being an animal rescue.
And she had said something about thisone neighborhood and I said to her,
(16:26):
I'll tell you what, if , you can getsome people to donate spay neuter to
that area up to 10, I will match them.
She was like, really?
And I was like, yeah.
And we started this reallycool, spay neuter task force.
There ended up being like 13 differentorganizations that all jumped on the
bandwagon in the middle of COVID.
(16:48):
And we did t-shirt fundraisers, we did allthis stuff and we ended up spay neutering,
like 60 animals just through, theywould find people that would match them.
We would find people that would match us.
Like we ended up all doing, 60 animals.
We had, Tito's gotinvolved, vodka for dog.
People love them.
They donated money to the taskforce, like we were able to do,
(17:10):
I think it was like 60 dogs.
I think we did when all was saidand done, which I guess doesn't
seem like a lot, but really it was.
If you look at the numbers of theprocreation numbers, but up here we
don't really, everybody up here wantsto spay and neuter their animals.
It's very bizarre here.
If we get an app and there's an animalin the home that's not spayed and neuter,
(17:31):
we're like, okay, is it a medical issue?
There are areas, there are pocketsof areas in and around where
we are, where it's less common.
And those areas are definitely areas wherethe socioeconomical they're poorer areas.
I'm trying to say this a different way tomake it sound nicer, but that's the truth.
(17:53):
It's the
poorer areas up here thatwe do see more of it.
Another program we haveis we do shelter revamps.
I'm a hazmat technician.
So I'll go in and from a diseasecontrol standpoint, go in and try to
get a shelter that's super sick, tryto implement protocols and deep clean
and show everybody the appropriateways to clean and what to do.
(18:14):
And we actually had a shelter rightby us and they hired me for three
months to do a contract there.
And there is one area and likethey're still struggling with it.
Every single thing that comes outtathat area in New York, it's right
over the border into New York.
Everything that comes outta thatarea is not spayed or neutered.
There's another area that'sabout a half hour from us.
(18:37):
Anything that comes outta thatarea is not spay and neutered.
And there are definitely areasthat are like less wealthy.
I don't know if that has anything todo with it, but I do think that it's
more common in the poorer communities.
And I do think thereneeds to be more outreach.
I think there needs to be more education.
I think that there needs to be more spayand neuter, and I think that there are
(18:59):
people in these areas that would wantto do it, but at the end of the day,
they can either feed their childrenor get their dog spay and neutered.
What would you choose?
Dixie (19:06):
I don't see that here because , the parish that I'm in, we have very low
cost, like spay neuter or cats options.
Ashley (19:14):
Yeah.
Dixie (19:14):
We have free spay neuter for feral cats, and there's specific
breeds of dogs that are very low cost.
And then there's other lowcost programs for dogs.
Some of the low cost ones, I'mgonna say are probably like $60.
I do cat rescue, so I couldbe a little bit off on that.
But the crazy thing, like specificallytoo with the cats is we have it
(19:35):
in this parish where it is free.
If you have a feral catin the trap, it is free.
And we still struggle here withtrying to get people to get them in
to go get 'em spayed and neutered.
Ashley (19:47):
I'm so jealous.
Dixie (19:48):
Yeah, so jealous.
It's crazy.
So, like I said here, it's not quitewhat I would say, an economical thing
because I know people that can well affordto just go to a regular vet and get it
done and they just won't go get it done.
And then like I said, with thefree programs, it's still hard
to get people to go get it done.
Ashley (20:09):
That's wild.
Yeah, that's wild.
We don't have that up hereand I think that's different.
That's a big differencebetween north and south.
But I also think that's a lot of whythe population up here is so much
less than the population down south.
Like our overpopulation is stillprobably only a quarter of what yours is.
We're seeing a lot more now because wehad so many animals come up during COVID
(20:35):
that like a lot, I would say nine out 10dogs that are ending up in the shelters
right now up here are from the South.
I do have some issues with theseorganizations that have no fallback plan
that are located out of state and theycome up and they do these like adoptions
with random people in the northern statesand then they like leave and go home.
And if it doesn't work out, thedog has nowhere to go because
(20:58):
there's no like northern partner.
So that's something thatI don't really love.
We see a lot of that up here.
We also are seeing a lot of, like thepuppy mills that are now bringing vehicles
full of puppies that are sick and brokenand, just these poor puppies and dogs
and they're just passing them out up herelike they're selling them for $1,800.
(21:20):
You go to a gas station andyou collect all of these dogs,
and they're not real rescues.
They're dogs.
That definitely came fromreally bad breeding situations.
Backyard breeders puppymills, you name it.
And animal control is trying to cut downon them, but they're not located here.
So it's like, how do you cut downon that when they're not here?
(21:42):
They drop the dogs andthen they like leave.
Dixie (21:45):
Right.
Ashley (21:46):
So that's another thing that we're now seeing that's
becoming a big overpopulationcausing our area to overpopulate.
We're not seeing the overpopulation,I don't think for necessarily the
same reasons so much as you guysare like, yeah, we still have
the I don't want, we have the BSsurrenders and the this and the that.
Like we still have a lot of that.
(22:06):
But I would say our overpopulation is nowbecoming more of a problem here because
of dogs coming outta the south now.
I don't think that we shouldn'thelp dogs from the south.
I think that we should justbe responsible about it.
I still get a lot of my dogs from thesouth and I love helping, being able
to help out wherever we can, wheneverwe can for whatever we need to.
(22:28):
But that's something else that like,I would say is a big difference.
Our overpopulation rates andour euthanasia rates here.
Are very low compared to the south.
And that's what one of the bigthings that I constantly tell people.
'cause everybody's well, whydon't you help dogs here?
And I'm like, I do help dogs here.
But when our euthanasia rates startto match the ones in Louisiana, Texas
(22:53):
Oklahoma, Mississippi, when Kentucky,West Virginia, when we start to reach
those levels, then you can talk tome about not pulling outta the south.
But we haven't reached that.
We are very lucky and I reallythink that spay and neuter and
neuter has a big impact on that.
Dixie (23:09):
Yeah.
You're fortunate that that many peopleare pro spay neuter where you are.
With all these dogs coming in, likeyou said, from these backyard breeders
and puppy mills, and as well as thesetransports coming up from the south,
does that affect your adoptions?
Ashley (23:29):
Yes and no.
So when I say this, theseare not responsible rescuers
that I'm talking about.
Like I know a lot of responsiblerescuers who do transports
up north like every week.
I've been doing this for a long time.
That's been like our mainsource of getting dogs.
So I wanna be very clear thatI'm not talking about responsible
rescuers who are doing transportto the Northeast with receiving
(23:49):
partners and, that kind of thing.
I think that there is definitely a needfor puppies that we don't typically have
a lot of puppies here that are available.
I hate to say this 'cause it makes itsound like it's a t-shirt store, but
it is a business at the end of the daywhen it comes to the nonprofit and the
rescue, there is a supply and demand.
And my thought process is, if.
(24:13):
We don't have a lot of puppiesand we need puppies and you guys
need to move puppies, that works.
Little fru dogs do a lot better here.
Like they go faster.
So yes.
If there's not a lot of them locally,then yeah, I think that getting them
from the south is definitely beneficial.
The problem I have is withorganizations that are brokers
(24:34):
ultimately that are posing as rescues.
Some of them didn'teven get their 5 0 1 C3.
But there's a couple of them that,like we know of that animal control has
been trying desperately to cut down.
And they go and they either breed 'emin the backyard, they know backyard
breeders that they're getting them from,they're going to puppy mill auctions.
That's a big one.
(24:55):
And they're ultimately brokers,like they're puppy store brokers.
That's what they are.
And then they pose as rescuesand they bring 'em up, here.
Then, so in that regard, yes, becauseif I can go as, as a adopter, right?
And I can go pay $1,500 andsomebody is telling me this dog
(25:16):
is quote unquote rescued, why?
And I can get a purebreed, multi poo from them.
Why am I gonna come to Southern Pawsand get like a little hound, pity puppy,
Dixie (25:29):
right?
Ashley (25:29):
So that's where we see the issue.
The other issue is when these dogs getup here, whether they're from rescues,
they're either from rescues who don'tnecessarily have a fallback plan for
them up here, we will see a lot oforganizations from the south come up.
There's not like a receiving rescue.
And that's what I mean by responsible.
(25:51):
Like they're just doing randomadoptions and they don't have a rescue
that they're partnering with, sothat if that adoption doesn't work
out, the dog has somewhere to go.
So is that influencing us here?
Yeah, it definitely is becausenow that dog doesn't work
out, the rescue is in Texas.
There's no way to getthe dog back to Texas.
(26:11):
So now the dog ends up in a shelter hereand takes away our space that we have for
our local animals that need a place to go.
Dixie (26:22):
How are surrenders since you did bring that subject up on people
that might adopt a dog from these peoplethat are just randomly driving it up and
decide they don't want the dog anymore.
How are your adoption returns in general?
Because I knew here it seemsto be, at a high right now.
Ashley (26:39):
Knock on wood, my return rate is still less than like 3%.
But I am also a psychopathwhen it comes to my adopters.
Like I am very picky to the pointwhere the, probably the biggest
complaint is that I scare everybody.
And at the end of the day, ifthey're still interested in the
dog, then maybe they can have it.
(27:01):
I am a jerk like thatand I pride myself on it.
Like I am a very real person.
I tell everybody all the time, I'mlike, you are really nice and my job is
to find a good, perfect match for you.
But at the end of the day, myresponsibility my priority is not you.
My priority is this dog.
So it's really nice that you'vehad a hundred dogs and you've never
had to do training, and all of themhave been circus pets and they're
(27:23):
fantastic and blah, blah blah.
But I have a really specific criteria forthe things that you're gonna need to do
with any of my dogs for the first year.
And if you're not gonna do them,i'm sure you're a great home, but
you can't have one of my dogs.
So my return rate is still less than 3%.
However, our foster program is likeoverwhelmed, so overwhelmed from trying
(27:47):
to help out with local surrenders,helping out our local shelters.
Last week I pulled two dogs fromour local Rockland shelter, one of
which is a diabetic like disaster.
He's the best and I love him.
His name is Remy, and he is completelyemaciated and was like a diabetic mess.
He finally made it through hisfirst night without wetting
(28:07):
his diaper, which was huge.
And he's finally stabilizingon his insulin after a week.
Then I have two dogs right nowthat I'm desperately trying
to pull out animal control.
I pulled one a couple weeks ago from them.
I tried to get my adultdogs locally from them.
We are just so overwhelmed everywhere.
The other day, it was like beforeone o'clock, I had six calls from
(28:28):
people trying to surrender dogs.
And they're not my dogs, so I can't saythe returns are bad in my organization.
But I can say that surrenders are so bad.
Like , today I got a call fromsomebody in Pennsylvania, not
even locally in Pennsylvania.
He somehow heard about me from somebodyand heard about my organization,
and he has two deaf and blind whiteboxers that he would like to rehome.
Dixie (28:53):
Why?
Ashley (28:54):
I didn't even call him back.
Every
day is like this.
I could read you, I have visual voicemail.
I could literally read you everysingle one in my inbox for like
my voicemail inbox for the lastfour days is just surrender
requests after surrender requests.
It's disgusting.
Yeah.
And it is the animal welfare crisis thatwe are all in right now during COVID.
(29:14):
I have theories on this, like the animalwelfare crisis to me during COVID.
And I remember one night sitting here, itwas like midnight and I was on the phone,
like gossiping with Jess, my one partner.
And we said this was gonna happen.
She was like, this is coming.
And it's gonna be bad.
And to be honest, that's why I stockpiledmoney because I knew that this was
(29:37):
gonna come and I'm so grateful that Idid because we wouldn't have survived
this last two years without themoney that we put away during COVID.
We had the puppy boom during COVID, andduring the puppy boom, everybody's big
concern was like, what's gonna happenwhen everybody goes back to work?
That's, at least in my area,like that was a big thing.
Everybody's getting these dogs and what'sgonna happen when they go back to work?
(29:58):
90% of these returns are not, at leastthe ones that like, or I shouldn't
say returns, I should say surrenders.
Everybody that's calling me wantingto return surrender their dog.
It's not because of their workschedule, surprisingly enough.
Like it's because they'rebehaviorally awful.
Because, they'reultimately COVID children.
(30:20):
Okay.
They were never properly worked with,they were never properly socialized.
And now , they have aggression issues,they have they have anxiety disorders.
You name it, they've got it andthat's why they wanna return the dog.
We are seeing a lot of people thatcan't afford to keep their dogs.
Our economy right now is trash.
People are having to downsize.
They're having to move.
(30:40):
When you move the place you're moving to.
Personally I'm currently lookingfor rentals right now for myself.
I have three dogs where and I've beenlooking now for three months now.
Luckily, I'm okay where I am.
Like I could stay here foreverif I wanted to, but at the end of
the day, I can't find a rental.
So I'm like, okay, so now what do you do?
(31:00):
Now you're losing your home,so what are you gonna do?
Or you really have no money, youcan barely afford to feed your kids.
How are you gonna feed your dog?
So we're dealing with that.
That's a big portion of the rescue crisis.
Yes.
Do we have the people that arelike, oh, I just feel like I
don't have enough time for my dog.
Yeah, we do.
I feel like they're few and farbetween than the other ones.
(31:22):
The other thing that's contributingis during COVID, everybody
that wanted a dog got one.
So our adoption pool right now isso small because everybody got one.
So these are either the kids thatare now coming up that were, in high
school during COVID that are likeearly twenties, that kind of thing.
They're now looking to adopt.
(31:43):
So we have that population.
We also have the people thatwant a second dog, right?
Like most of my adopters are actuallyreturning adopters for their second pup.
So that's another element.
And this is probably notsomething I should say to the
public, but I'm gonna say it.
We live in a generation wherenobody is accountable for anything.
(32:04):
Everything is everybody else'sproblem and people are lazy.
Nobody wants to put thetime, the effort, the money.
Or anything when they can dumpthe dog off somewhere else.
And that's the culture we live in.
I say all the time, the only waywe're getting out of this animal
welfare crisis, like everybody's gota band together, now the population
(32:26):
has to start helping themselves.
And that's actually wherethe training center was born.
'cause I was like, all right, we gottastart doing something to help the people
that are actually willing to put thetime and the energy into doing it.
So that's what led into training.
And everybody that calls meand all of these calls, I say
to them like, can you foster?
Everybody wants me to help.
Can you help this dog?
Can you help this dog?
Can you help this dog?
(32:46):
But nobody wants to foster the dog.
Nobody wants to help us pay for the dog.
Nobody wants to buy food for the dog.
Where are we supposed to put them?
Dixie (32:55):
We see that here too.
I know from my personal experiencewe have a lot of the people here that
are, oh, I don't have time anymore.
For a dog it's a little bitdifferent than it is for a cat.
A cat is absolutely fineif you go to work all day.
In fact, your cat probably is getout the house and leave me alone.
I just like to tolerate you when you comehome 'cause that's just how cats are.
(33:17):
But here it's like a lot of people arelike, well, I just don't have time.
So they're reaching out to rescuesand what aggravates me about it is
a lot of these people don't realizewhat a rescue is actually for.
A rescue is not for you gettingout of your responsibility.
A rescue is there for the dire situations.
And those things thatjust come up unexpectedly.
(33:40):
Like something like ahospitalization, a death in the
family or something like that.
But it's not for people.
That are just like, I wannajust get rid of my dog or my cat
today 'cause I don't have time.
Ashley (33:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we see that.
And in that moment, have you seen thatmeme that's like circling, that says
something about your dog would muchrather lay on their couch all day in
the air conditioning like, than be,in a shelter or something like that.
Have you seen that meme?
That's how I feel about that.
And I say that to people and I, everybodythat calls me that I do talk to that
(34:13):
doesn't like just get our voicemail.
'cause at this point I've stoppedcalling them back because I don't
have the mental capacity to bepolite anymore to sometimes.
So if I do happen to answer and they dosay it, I explain it to them and I say,
Hey, listen, you are trying to rehomeyour animal in the absolute worst time.
Let me tell you about theanimal welfare crisis.
(34:35):
And I educate them and I'm like,honestly, the best thing you can do for
this dog right now is go find a trainer.
Train your dog.
Okay, get a dog walker.
Go to doggy daycare.
Or, I hate to say it, but sittingat home in the air conditioning is
a lot better than being in a shelterand then being euthanized for space.
Dixie (34:57):
We've reached all the time that we have for today's episode, so we're
gonna cut the conversation short,but I will be back next week with the
conclusion of the conversation that Ihad with Ashley and we're gonna get in
more into talking about the dog training.
So I hope you can join us nextweek . If you are enjoying our show,
please consider leaving us a donation.
(35:18):
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Animal posse Hear the call We standtogether Big and small Rescue tales We’ve
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Song by Suno.ai
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Joining us today is Ashley Gardenier,an animal rescuer and dog trainer.
Welcome, Ashley.
Thank you for coming on the show.
Ashley (00:18):
You're welcome.
Dixie (00:19):
I'm excited to talk about your dog training and also your
animal rescue, Southern Paws Inc.
Ashley (00:28):
Yeah.
I'm super stoked.
, It's really great to be here.
. Where do you wanna start?
Dixie (00:32):
I wanna get into how dog training can help to keep dogs in homes,
but before we get into that, I wouldlike to know a little bit more about you.
If you could tell me a little bit aboutyour background, how you came to start
Southern Paws Inc, and also Oh, okay.
How you got involved in dog training.
Ashley (00:53):
Okay.
So, let's see.
I am almost 40 and . I started SouthernPaws, we're about to hit 11 years.
I have been in animal rescuenow going on 13 years.
And honestly it started I had gotten intovolunteering with a wildlife organization
(01:14):
and they had these connections toan organization in Louisiana called
the Humane Society of Louisiana.
And since Katrina, and they hadbeen trying to help them get lower
preventatives, like lower costpreventatives and helping them pay for
(01:34):
heart worm treatments and stuff like this.
And , the Humane Society had actually.
Come through and had nominatedus for thank yous pretty much
like , an achievement award, right?
And a thank you.
They were honoring us at this gala andI think I was like 25, 26 at the time.
And the owner of the organizationwas like, do you wanna go
(01:54):
to New Orleans for a week?
And I was like yes I do.
25, 26 me was like yes.
Put me in the car, let's go.
And that was how I got my first glimpseof dog rescue and things like, that
was my first transport I ever did.
And when I was down there I reallygot to see like firsthand what people
were experiencing in rescue in theSouth and just how different it was.
(02:18):
Like, it was just a big culture shock.
So.
After that I came home and Ijust couldn't sleep at night.
I was having a really hard time and I justreally felt like I needed to do something.
And at the time they werereally struggling with dogs that
needed heart worm treatments.
And I connected back with my mentor.
She actually has since passed away.
Her name is Johnna.
And I said to her like, Hey, Ihave this idea, like what if we
(02:40):
started this sponsorship program?
And that's how the heartwormsponsorship program was born.
And we ended up treating like 80 dogsin the course of three or four months.
And then that kind of snowballed becausethey had this hoarding case that they
had worked and Johnna needed somebodyto come down and help with transport.
And it was something I had always beenlike, oh yeah, I'll help with that.
(03:01):
That sounds cool.
And I ended up going down anddid my first transport and
then it just snowballed, right?
Johnna was telling me a lot about justhow northern organizations at the time,
and this is going back 12 years now.
Were really taking advantage of thesouthern organizations where they were
getting all of these animals like fullyvetted and like ready to be adopted.
(03:25):
The southern organizations that werereally in these like very rural like
poverty stricken areas that didn'thave the type of money that we had
up here were like putting everythingthey had into these transports.
They were able to run them like onceor twice a year, and they'd come up,
they'd give them these jobs, and thenthe rescues up here would turn around and
(03:48):
adopt 'em out for three, $400 a piece.
And I said they were trying to getlike this transport program up and
running, and I said, all right, wellwhat if we adopted a couple of dogs
off the truck to pay for the trip?
Could then, could you like do more?
And they were like, yeah.
So that's how it got started.
And after I would say like a year and ahalf, I really was just like, I had no
(04:10):
time and I was running out of money and Iwas like I really gotta do something here.
So I went to them and I said, listen,hey, like I either have to start taking a
paycheck or I have to get like a real job.
And they said, okay, wellwhat about, a commission?
And I was like, okay, fine.
And I got my first paycheckand I deposited in the bank
and opened up Southern Paws.
(04:30):
And now our organization, it'sa very small organization,
but it has this massive reach.
We have all kinds of different programs.
One of our main focuses ishelping to support our sister
organizations that we work with.
We do still work withHumane Side of Louisiana.
One of the board members there has alsostarted Mississippi Animal Project, which
has been our primary rescue for years.
(04:52):
But we've worked with otherrescues in Mississippi, Louisiana.
We've started spay and neuterprograms that give back to
the community down there.
We started disaster relief throughthe 2016 floods in Louisiana, in
Livingston and our partners downthere in assisting them, that's how
our disaster relief program was born.
And, it just snowballed.
(05:12):
We have our facility uphere, which is not a shelter.
We're a rescue based organization.
But we have our facilityspecifically for transport holds.
So when dogs come up, theystay with us for 24, 48 hours.
I make sure they've madeit through transport.
Okay.
They get groomed, they get medicated.
They get looked at by vet techsand staff members and making sure
(05:33):
that they came through everything.
Okay.
If anybody needs to go to the vet,they go to the vet, we do quite a
bit of pre-adoption, which meansthey're preselected before they even
come to the state of New Jersey.
And then we also have now transitionedwith the animal welfare crisis.
We've really started to transition intomore foster based stuff and working like
(05:54):
I would say the big theme for the lasttwo years has just been like adaptability.
And that's where.
The Northern Spay andneuter program was born.
We have Spay it Forward and thenwe also have the training center
now that we opened in September.
I figured that after all of thistime working with dogs, I mean
I've seen all of the things, right?
(06:15):
I have two trained therapy dogs thatI went through training with myself.
I've worked with pretty much everybehavioral case in the rescue.
I have a great support system whenit comes to a training network
of people that I really trust andwhose opinions I valued so highly.
And I had just seen like a lot of things.
And I had worked inthrough disaster relief.
(06:35):
I had also worked in differentshelters, I've also worked in the field
and had to work with dogs that wereterrified, in dangerous situations.
And I just figured Hey, Ihave this whole situation.
We had always said we wanted to havea training center, I just felt that
training was just so important aboutkeeping dogs in their homes and when
(06:56):
I didn't expect the upstairs of mybuilding to become available so quickly.
So like the timeline was very fast.
I was like, oh, well, yeah,I guess we're gonna do this.
And luckily during COVID I had this kindof dream that I wanted to branch out and
do more and like eventually have somesort of eventually have some sort of like
(07:17):
a property where I could do training andwe could have training and we could have
rescue and we could have adoptions and wecould have boarding, and all these things.
So during COVID we call it thepuppy boom, everybody was adopting.
I was smart enough to at leastput money away for that purpose.
And when the time presenteditself, I was like it's too good
of an opportunity to pass up.
(07:39):
Let's do it.
I'll get my training certification sothat I can at least say, I finally have
a piece of paper that says I can do whatI've been doing for the last, 12 years.
But now I have a piece of paper that saysso, and it was really cool 'cause it gave
me the opportunity to really understandthe like the evolution of dog training
as well as a lot of the principals, butyou don't necessarily know the principals
(08:00):
or like how they come about and like thepsychology of dogs and that kind of thing.
So I know it sounds long, but it'sactually like a quick snapshot.
It's just we do so much that, evenwhen you had reached out to me,
you were like, well what do you do?
And I was like, well, we doa little bit of everything.
Anytime we see a need, we tryto fill it and go from there.
Dixie (08:20):
That is a lot, but it gives us a lot to talk about, so that's good.
One thing that I wanna talk about, 'causeI hear about it, but I'm from the south.
I've been in animal rescue here forever.
What we have going on here is a normalthing for me because this is the
only place that I have ever lived.
I am used to multiple kitten seasons.
(08:41):
Like I understand that.
Oh yeah.
We have nonstop kitten seasons here andother areas are fortunate enough not
to, but explain what you mean by theculture shock in animal rescue here.
Ashley (08:53):
Well, so Dixie, where are you guys?
Dixie (08:57):
I'm in Louisiana, in New Orleans.
Ashley (08:58):
Okay.
Dixie (08:59):
Yeah.
And Oh, okay,
Ashley (09:00):
okay.
Yeah,
Dixie (09:01):
yeah.
I'm familiar with Humane Societyof Louisiana, so, I know, you
know a lot of people there.
Ashley (09:06):
We still work with them and we still do a lot of work with Livingston.
Dog people of Livingston ParishLanelle, who runs the fix.
The big clinics there.
I don't know if you knowabout that in Livingston.
Dixie (09:16):
No, I did not.
Ashley (09:18):
Anyway, yeah, this is like totally off topic, but yes.
I love Louisiana.
I feel like there's a part of methat just is always home there.
I don't know if you've ever felt that,like when you go outta state and you
have that one state, you just fall inlove so much with, and you always feel
like a part of you is always out there.
That's my Louisiana, newOrleans is my favorite city
but yeah, and I will say we'reseeing a little bit more of it now
(09:39):
because of the animal welfare crisisthat's been going on in the us.
But when I first started, first of all,we don't have dogs that are outside.
Like we, nobody has outsidedogs in Northern New Jersey,
New York, like tri-state area.
They don't like, if people's dogs areoutside, they get the police called.
Animal control gets called.
(09:59):
It's just not a thing.
We do have cats that like, Iknow like my neighbor's got a
cat that's an indoor outdoor cat.
And we do have feral cats.
We do have issues in this areaspecifically with like cats in general.
Like we do have a prettysolid kitten season.
There's actually a rescue Iwork with that's 20 minutes
from me 'cause we don't do cats.
And they've really done an amazing jobfocusing on spay and neuter and they're
(10:21):
finally starting to see some results,but they've been doing it for 10 years.
It's crazy but everybodyhere is a house pet.
That's the first thing.
We also all have fenced in yards,or we keep our dogs on leashes.
Nobody's animals really run wild.
And again, if you see a loosedog, like you call like the police
department or animal control, andyou're like, Hey, there's a dog,
(10:43):
and I think that to me was huge.
I remember driving around downthe road the first time I was in
either Louisiana or Mississippi.
And I was with Johnna my mentor andI'm driving their brand new transport
van, and I'm giggling because itwas just such a funny experience.
But I'm driving and there's a dog thatgoes darting into the middle of the
highway and I immediately slammed onthe brakes, pull over, and she looks
(11:08):
at me and she's what are you doing?
I was like, I gotta go get that dog.
There's a loose dog in Jersey,like we see a loose dog.
I got a leash in the car.
We got treats.
Like the whole neighborhoodis trying to get it.
Like we have dog trappers specificallyup here to find people's loose dogs.
And I just remember her looking at meand be like, you can't go take that dog.
(11:29):
And I was like, what do you mean?
She was like that's somebody's dog.
I was like, that's not somebody's dog.
It's running in the middle of the highway.
I almost just ran it over and she'slike, Ashley, you can't go take that dog.
So, that was really big.
I remember going to the the property thefirst time and there were like 80 dogs
on the property that all had heartworm.
And this was like the first time I hadever even heard of heartworm, aside
(11:52):
from the fact that oh, hey, we give ourdog a pill once a month to prevent it.
But I don't think any anybody,90% of us up here, really have,
unless you're in rescue and you'refamiliar with it because of rescue.
The average person hasno idea what that is.
So it was also my first time with that.
And I remember looking at oneof the members of the team and
(12:14):
being like, well, what's the deal?
And she was like, oh.
She's you see that row of dogs back there?
Yeah, they all have heartworm.
And I was like, okay.
What does that mean?
And they were like, well,we gotta get 'em treated.
And I was like, well, what happensif you don't get 'em treated?
And she's oh, they die.
And I was like, I'm sorry, what?
No.
She was like, yeah.
She was like, we're gonna treat them,but we have to get the money to do it.
(12:35):
At this point, we're just tryingto keep 'em comfortable until we
can get enough money to treat them.
And I was just like, I just rememberlike my mouth being on the floor and just
being like, that doesn't happen here.
That would never happen here.
Like never, there's just never aworld that we would live in the
Northeast where like the populationwouldn't rally of humans wouldn't,
(12:57):
rally together and help these dogs.
It was just baffling to me.
So those are the things, that we see,under that I saw that, understanding the
overpopulation problem, I was somebody whowas always like, not really understanding
of the shelter system, right?
I remember saying to Johnna well,why can't the shelter just take them?
And her trying to explain to me, openintake shelters and how they have a
(13:19):
commitment to the public that they haveto take things in, and how that ultimately
leads to the overpopulation issue,which leads to the high euthanization
rates, which again, up here, oureuthanization rates are not anywhere
near what they are down by you guys.
So, yeah, so I guess that's, thoseare some of the things that, we, I
(13:41):
really saw firsthand on that firstexperience that made me be like, somebody
needs to do something about this.
And then I was like, oh,I guess I miss somebody.
Dixie (13:52):
Yeah.
It is crazy how it is herebecause, I will say too the way
people look at spay neuter here.
It isn't like an educational thing.
It isn't an economical thing.
I know plenty professionals that don'tbelieve in spay neuter or just don't even
know about spay neuter, which to me it'sabsurd because, every animal that we've
had has always been spayed or neutered.
(14:13):
But here, I don't know what it is,there's plenty of people that can
afford to get it done that don't getit done, and there's plenty intelligent
people that still don't get it done.
So I don't really understand, howyou can even reach people more here
to get 'em on board with doing it.
Ashley (14:30):
So our biggest issue here is definitely the financial portion of it.
Like I'm about to blowyour mind right now.
An average spay and neuter in where,in Bergen County, New Jersey is going
to run you anywhere from 800 to $2,300.
Dixie (14:48):
Wow.
Ashley (14:51):
Yeah.
So we run a low cost spay and neuterprogram and our low cost, which
really is not really that low cost.
It's way better than that.
But our low cost program runsyou 250-450 I think it is.
So.
And that's considered low cost here.
So that's one of those needs in ourcommunity that we've been trying
(15:14):
to really give, like break intoand try and provide a solution for.
And it started actuallyin Louisiana during COVID.
I was really just feeling frustrated thatthe population numbers were, everybody's
getting adopted, we were moving everybodyout, but the numbers weren't dropping.
And I said, we have these financesrolling in from adoption fees and like
(15:38):
donors, we had big donors back then that,we weren't in the same like financial
crisis that we're in now, but we hada lot, we had a lot more money then.
And I said, it would be really cool ifwe could develop a program to give back.
To the communities that we'vebeen working with, for so long.
And Mississippi AnimalProject had a voucher program.
(16:01):
Humane Society, Louisiana had asmall voucher program and it was
actually another rescue in Louisiana.
Walking in the Sun, MindyDefender, I think is her last name.
She actually, and I were talking onenight just girl chat, like gossiping
and like whatever, and complainingabout, being an animal rescue.
And she had said something about thisone neighborhood and I said to her,
(16:26):
I'll tell you what, if , you can getsome people to donate spay neuter to
that area up to 10, I will match them.
She was like, really?
And I was like, yeah.
And we started this reallycool, spay neuter task force.
There ended up being like 13 differentorganizations that all jumped on the
bandwagon in the middle of COVID.
(16:48):
And we did t-shirt fundraisers, we did allthis stuff and we ended up spay neutering,
like 60 animals just through, theywould find people that would match them.
We would find people that would match us.
Like we ended up all doing, 60 animals.
We had, Tito's gotinvolved, vodka for dog.
People love them.
They donated money to the taskforce, like we were able to do,
(17:10):
I think it was like 60 dogs.
I think we did when all was saidand done, which I guess doesn't
seem like a lot, but really it was.
If you look at the numbers of theprocreation numbers, but up here we
don't really, everybody up here wantsto spay and neuter their animals.
It's very bizarre here.
If we get an app and there's an animalin the home that's not spayed and neuter,
(17:31):
we're like, okay, is it a medical issue?
There are areas, there are pocketsof areas in and around where
we are, where it's less common.
And those areas are definitely areas wherethe socioeconomical they're poorer areas.
I'm trying to say this a different way tomake it sound nicer, but that's the truth.
(17:53):
It's the
poorer areas up here thatwe do see more of it.
Another program we haveis we do shelter revamps.
I'm a hazmat technician.
So I'll go in and from a diseasecontrol standpoint, go in and try to
get a shelter that's super sick, tryto implement protocols and deep clean
and show everybody the appropriateways to clean and what to do.
(18:14):
And we actually had a shelter rightby us and they hired me for three
months to do a contract there.
And there is one area and likethey're still struggling with it.
Every single thing that comes outtathat area in New York, it's right
over the border into New York.
Everything that comes outta thatarea is not spayed or neutered.
There's another area that'sabout a half hour from us.
(18:37):
Anything that comes outta thatarea is not spay and neutered.
And there are definitely areasthat are like less wealthy.
I don't know if that has anything todo with it, but I do think that it's
more common in the poorer communities.
And I do think thereneeds to be more outreach.
I think there needs to be more education.
I think that there needs to be more spayand neuter, and I think that there are
(18:59):
people in these areas that would wantto do it, but at the end of the day,
they can either feed their childrenor get their dog spay and neutered.
What would you choose?
Dixie (19:06):
I don't see that here because , the parish that I'm in, we have very low
cost, like spay neuter or cats options.
Ashley (19:14):
Yeah.
Dixie (19:14):
We have free spay neuter for feral cats, and there's specific
breeds of dogs that are very low cost.
And then there's other lowcost programs for dogs.
Some of the low cost ones, I'mgonna say are probably like $60.
I do cat rescue, so I couldbe a little bit off on that.
But the crazy thing, like specificallytoo with the cats is we have it
(19:35):
in this parish where it is free.
If you have a feral catin the trap, it is free.
And we still struggle here withtrying to get people to get them in
to go get 'em spayed and neutered.
Ashley (19:47):
I'm so jealous.
Dixie (19:48):
Yeah, so jealous.
It's crazy.
So, like I said here, it's not quitewhat I would say, an economical thing
because I know people that can well affordto just go to a regular vet and get it
done and they just won't go get it done.
And then like I said, with thefree programs, it's still hard
to get people to go get it done.
Ashley (20:09):
That's wild.
Yeah, that's wild.
We don't have that up hereand I think that's different.
That's a big differencebetween north and south.
But I also think that's a lot of whythe population up here is so much
less than the population down south.
Like our overpopulation is stillprobably only a quarter of what yours is.
We're seeing a lot more now because wehad so many animals come up during COVID
(20:35):
that like a lot, I would say nine out 10dogs that are ending up in the shelters
right now up here are from the South.
I do have some issues with theseorganizations that have no fallback plan
that are located out of state and theycome up and they do these like adoptions
with random people in the northern statesand then they like leave and go home.
And if it doesn't work out, thedog has nowhere to go because
(20:58):
there's no like northern partner.
So that's something thatI don't really love.
We see a lot of that up here.
We also are seeing a lot of, like thepuppy mills that are now bringing vehicles
full of puppies that are sick and brokenand, just these poor puppies and dogs
and they're just passing them out up herelike they're selling them for $1,800.
(21:20):
You go to a gas station andyou collect all of these dogs,
and they're not real rescues.
They're dogs.
That definitely came fromreally bad breeding situations.
Backyard breeders puppymills, you name it.
And animal control is trying to cut downon them, but they're not located here.
So it's like, how do you cut downon that when they're not here?
(21:42):
They drop the dogs andthen they like leave.
Dixie (21:45):
Right.
Ashley (21:46):
So that's another thing that we're now seeing that's
becoming a big overpopulationcausing our area to overpopulate.
We're not seeing the overpopulation,I don't think for necessarily the
same reasons so much as you guysare like, yeah, we still have
the I don't want, we have the BSsurrenders and the this and the that.
Like we still have a lot of that.
(22:06):
But I would say our overpopulation is nowbecoming more of a problem here because
of dogs coming outta the south now.
I don't think that we shouldn'thelp dogs from the south.
I think that we should justbe responsible about it.
I still get a lot of my dogs from thesouth and I love helping, being able
to help out wherever we can, wheneverwe can for whatever we need to.
(22:28):
But that's something else that like,I would say is a big difference.
Our overpopulation rates andour euthanasia rates here.
Are very low compared to the south.
And that's what one of the bigthings that I constantly tell people.
'cause everybody's well, whydon't you help dogs here?
And I'm like, I do help dogs here.
But when our euthanasia rates startto match the ones in Louisiana, Texas
(22:53):
Oklahoma, Mississippi, when Kentucky,West Virginia, when we start to reach
those levels, then you can talk tome about not pulling outta the south.
But we haven't reached that.
We are very lucky and I reallythink that spay and neuter and
neuter has a big impact on that.
Dixie (23:09):
Yeah.
You're fortunate that that many peopleare pro spay neuter where you are.
With all these dogs coming in, likeyou said, from these backyard breeders
and puppy mills, and as well as thesetransports coming up from the south,
does that affect your adoptions?
Ashley (23:29):
Yes and no.
So when I say this, theseare not responsible rescuers
that I'm talking about.
Like I know a lot of responsiblerescuers who do transports
up north like every week.
I've been doing this for a long time.
That's been like our mainsource of getting dogs.
So I wanna be very clear thatI'm not talking about responsible
rescuers who are doing transportto the Northeast with receiving
(23:49):
partners and, that kind of thing.
I think that there is definitely a needfor puppies that we don't typically have
a lot of puppies here that are available.
I hate to say this 'cause it makes itsound like it's a t-shirt store, but
it is a business at the end of the daywhen it comes to the nonprofit and the
rescue, there is a supply and demand.
And my thought process is, if.
(24:13):
We don't have a lot of puppiesand we need puppies and you guys
need to move puppies, that works.
Little fru dogs do a lot better here.
Like they go faster.
So yes.
If there's not a lot of them locally,then yeah, I think that getting them
from the south is definitely beneficial.
The problem I have is withorganizations that are brokers
(24:34):
ultimately that are posing as rescues.
Some of them didn'teven get their 5 0 1 C3.
But there's a couple of them that,like we know of that animal control has
been trying desperately to cut down.
And they go and they either breed 'emin the backyard, they know backyard
breeders that they're getting them from,they're going to puppy mill auctions.
That's a big one.
(24:55):
And they're ultimately brokers,like they're puppy store brokers.
That's what they are.
And then they pose as rescuesand they bring 'em up, here.
Then, so in that regard, yes, becauseif I can go as, as a adopter, right?
And I can go pay $1,500 andsomebody is telling me this dog
(25:16):
is quote unquote rescued, why?
And I can get a purebreed, multi poo from them.
Why am I gonna come to Southern Pawsand get like a little hound, pity puppy,
Dixie (25:29):
right?
Ashley (25:29):
So that's where we see the issue.
The other issue is when these dogs getup here, whether they're from rescues,
they're either from rescues who don'tnecessarily have a fallback plan for
them up here, we will see a lot oforganizations from the south come up.
There's not like a receiving rescue.
And that's what I mean by responsible.
(25:51):
Like they're just doing randomadoptions and they don't have a rescue
that they're partnering with, sothat if that adoption doesn't work
out, the dog has somewhere to go.
So is that influencing us here?
Yeah, it definitely is becausenow that dog doesn't work
out, the rescue is in Texas.
There's no way to getthe dog back to Texas.
(26:11):
So now the dog ends up in a shelter hereand takes away our space that we have for
our local animals that need a place to go.
Dixie (26:22):
How are surrenders since you did bring that subject up on people
that might adopt a dog from these peoplethat are just randomly driving it up and
decide they don't want the dog anymore.
How are your adoption returns in general?
Because I knew here it seemsto be, at a high right now.
Ashley (26:39):
Knock on wood, my return rate is still less than like 3%.
But I am also a psychopathwhen it comes to my adopters.
Like I am very picky to the pointwhere the, probably the biggest
complaint is that I scare everybody.
And at the end of the day, ifthey're still interested in the
dog, then maybe they can have it.
(27:01):
I am a jerk like thatand I pride myself on it.
Like I am a very real person.
I tell everybody all the time, I'mlike, you are really nice and my job is
to find a good, perfect match for you.
But at the end of the day, myresponsibility my priority is not you.
My priority is this dog.
So it's really nice that you'vehad a hundred dogs and you've never
had to do training, and all of themhave been circus pets and they're
(27:23):
fantastic and blah, blah blah.
But I have a really specific criteria forthe things that you're gonna need to do
with any of my dogs for the first year.
And if you're not gonna do them,i'm sure you're a great home, but
you can't have one of my dogs.
So my return rate is still less than 3%.
However, our foster program is likeoverwhelmed, so overwhelmed from trying
(27:47):
to help out with local surrenders,helping out our local shelters.
Last week I pulled two dogs fromour local Rockland shelter, one of
which is a diabetic like disaster.
He's the best and I love him.
His name is Remy, and he is completelyemaciated and was like a diabetic mess.
He finally made it through hisfirst night without wetting
(28:07):
his diaper, which was huge.
And he's finally stabilizingon his insulin after a week.
Then I have two dogs right nowthat I'm desperately trying
to pull out animal control.
I pulled one a couple weeks ago from them.
I tried to get my adultdogs locally from them.
We are just so overwhelmed everywhere.
The other day, it was like beforeone o'clock, I had six calls from
(28:28):
people trying to surrender dogs.
And they're not my dogs, so I can't saythe returns are bad in my organization.
But I can say that surrenders are so bad.
Like , today I got a call fromsomebody in Pennsylvania, not
even locally in Pennsylvania.
He somehow heard about me from somebodyand heard about my organization,
and he has two deaf and blind whiteboxers that he would like to rehome.
Dixie (28:53):
Why?
Ashley (28:54):
I didn't even call him back.
Every
day is like this.
I could read you, I have visual voicemail.
I could literally read you everysingle one in my inbox for like
my voicemail inbox for the lastfour days is just surrender
requests after surrender requests.
It's disgusting.
Yeah.
And it is the animal welfare crisis thatwe are all in right now during COVID.
(29:14):
I have theories on this, like the animalwelfare crisis to me during COVID.
And I remember one night sitting here, itwas like midnight and I was on the phone,
like gossiping with Jess, my one partner.
And we said this was gonna happen.
She was like, this is coming.
And it's gonna be bad.
And to be honest, that's why I stockpiledmoney because I knew that this was
(29:37):
gonna come and I'm so grateful that Idid because we wouldn't have survived
this last two years without themoney that we put away during COVID.
We had the puppy boom during COVID, andduring the puppy boom, everybody's big
concern was like, what's gonna happenwhen everybody goes back to work?
That's, at least in my area,like that was a big thing.
Everybody's getting these dogs and what'sgonna happen when they go back to work?
(29:58):
90% of these returns are not, at leastthe ones that like, or I shouldn't
say returns, I should say surrenders.
Everybody that's calling me wantingto return surrender their dog.
It's not because of their workschedule, surprisingly enough.
Like it's because they'rebehaviorally awful.
Because, they'reultimately COVID children.
(30:20):
Okay.
They were never properly worked with,they were never properly socialized.
And now , they have aggression issues,they have they have anxiety disorders.
You name it, they've got it andthat's why they wanna return the dog.
We are seeing a lot of people thatcan't afford to keep their dogs.
Our economy right now is trash.
People are having to downsize.
They're having to move.
(30:40):
When you move the place you're moving to.
Personally I'm currently lookingfor rentals right now for myself.
I have three dogs where and I've beenlooking now for three months now.
Luckily, I'm okay where I am.
Like I could stay here foreverif I wanted to, but at the end of
the day, I can't find a rental.
So I'm like, okay, so now what do you do?
(31:00):
Now you're losing your home,so what are you gonna do?
Or you really have no money, youcan barely afford to feed your kids.
How are you gonna feed your dog?
So we're dealing with that.
That's a big portion of the rescue crisis.
Yes.
Do we have the people that arelike, oh, I just feel like I
don't have enough time for my dog.
Yeah, we do.
I feel like they're few and farbetween than the other ones.
(31:22):
The other thing that's contributingis during COVID, everybody
that wanted a dog got one.
So our adoption pool right now isso small because everybody got one.
So these are either the kids thatare now coming up that were, in high
school during COVID that are likeearly twenties, that kind of thing.
They're now looking to adopt.
(31:43):
So we have that population.
We also have the people thatwant a second dog, right?
Like most of my adopters are actuallyreturning adopters for their second pup.
So that's another element.
And this is probably notsomething I should say to the
public, but I'm gonna say it.
We live in a generation wherenobody is accountable for anything.
(32:04):
Everything is everybody else'sproblem and people are lazy.
Nobody wants to put thetime, the effort, the money.
Or anything when they can dumpthe dog off somewhere else.
And that's the culture we live in.
I say all the time, the only waywe're getting out of this animal
welfare crisis, like everybody's gota band together, now the population
(32:26):
has to start helping themselves.
And that's actually wherethe training center was born.
'cause I was like, all right, we gottastart doing something to help the people
that are actually willing to put thetime and the energy into doing it.
So that's what led into training.
And everybody that calls meand all of these calls, I say
to them like, can you foster?
Everybody wants me to help.
Can you help this dog?
Can you help this dog?
Can you help this dog?
(32:46):
But nobody wants to foster the dog.
Nobody wants to help us pay for the dog.
Nobody wants to buy food for the dog.
Where are we supposed to put them?
Dixie (32:55):
We see that here too.
I know from my personal experiencewe have a lot of the people here that
are, oh, I don't have time anymore.
For a dog it's a little bitdifferent than it is for a cat.
A cat is absolutely fineif you go to work all day.
In fact, your cat probably is getout the house and leave me alone.
I just like to tolerate you when you comehome 'cause that's just how cats are.
(33:17):
But here it's like a lot of people arelike, well, I just don't have time.
So they're reaching out to rescuesand what aggravates me about it is
a lot of these people don't realizewhat a rescue is actually for.
A rescue is not for you gettingout of your responsibility.
A rescue is there for the dire situations.
And those things thatjust come up unexpectedly.
(33:40):
Like something like ahospitalization, a death in the
family or something like that.
But it's not for people.
That are just like, I wannajust get rid of my dog or my cat
today 'cause I don't have time.
Ashley (33:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we see that.
And in that moment, have you seen thatmeme that's like circling, that says
something about your dog would muchrather lay on their couch all day in
the air conditioning like, than be,in a shelter or something like that.
Have you seen that meme?
That's how I feel about that.
And I say that to people and I, everybodythat calls me that I do talk to that
(34:13):
doesn't like just get our voicemail.
'cause at this point I've stoppedcalling them back because I don't
have the mental capacity to bepolite anymore to sometimes.
So if I do happen to answer and they dosay it, I explain it to them and I say,
Hey, listen, you are trying to rehomeyour animal in the absolute worst time.
Let me tell you about theanimal welfare crisis.
(34:35):
And I educate them and I'm like,honestly, the best thing you can do for
this dog right now is go find a trainer.
Train your dog.
Okay, get a dog walker.
Go to doggy daycare.
Or, I hate to say it, but sittingat home in the air conditioning is
a lot better than being in a shelterand then being euthanized for space.
Dixie (34:57):
We've reached all the time that we have for today's episode, so we're
gonna cut the conversation short,but I will be back next week with the
conclusion of the conversation that Ihad with Ashley and we're gonna get in
more into talking about the dog training.
So I hope you can join us nextweek . If you are enjoying our show,
please consider leaving us a donation.
(35:18):
A hundred percent goes to our animals.
Paws in
the night Claws in thefight Whiskers twitch and
(35:40):
tails
take flight
They’re calling in Stories to spinFrom the wild to the heart within
Broken wings and hopeful springsWe’re the voices for these things
animal posse hear the call.
(36:02):
We stand together.
Big and small Rescue tales We’vegot it all Animal posse Saving
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The vet’s got tips The rescuer’sgrit The foster homes where love
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Hear the call
We stand together Big
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and small Rescue tales We’ve gotit all Animal posse Saving them all
Every caller tells a tale, everyhowl a whispered wail, we rise up.
We never
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fail.
This
is
the
bond
The holy grail
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Animal posse Hear the call We standtogether Big and small Rescue tales We’ve
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