May 23, 2025 • 40 mins
Animal cruelty exposed. This week, Animal Posse welcomes Veronica Belletto, a dedicated animal advocate and cruelty investigator. We delve into the difficult truths of animal neglect, abuse, and the brutal world of dog fighting. Learn the signs, understand the impact, and discover how to be a voice for the voiceless. A powerful and essential listen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dixie (00:02):
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Hi Veronica.
How are you?
Veronica (00:11):
Hi Dixie.
I'm great.
Thanks so much for calling.
Dixie (00:14):
You're welcome.
Thank you for joining me today.
So we could talk about the workyou do as an animal advocate.
I understand you work for severalorganizations, so tell me a
little bit about yourself andthe groups you volunteer with.
Veronica (00:28):
I try to lend my time to anybody I see reaching out on social media.
First off, that big easy animalrescue is one and chat that cat
and, animal rescue New Orleans.
This most recently I've been doingwork with investigative, work with
the Humane Society of Louisiana.
And that's been very rewardingand I feel like we're really
(00:51):
making a difference there.
And how did you get started in this?
Were you always into animals?
As a, when I was about 12, I've alwaysbeen into animals, and at age 12 I've
joined a program at the zoo, whichnow as an adult, I'm not a fan of
(01:11):
zoos, but at the time they took usto the SBCA as part of the training
program to be a junior zookeeper.
And at the SBCA, they showed usa film about what happens to.
Animals one, they're euthanizedand it was really jarring.
And ever since then I've been, triedto be an advocate and donate, know
(01:34):
and give time as much as possible.
Dixie (01:38):
Yeah.
I was actually a volunteerat the zoo as well.
Veronica (01:43):
Oh, you were?
Okay.
Yeah.
. I was in this junior zookeeper programand I did, I'll say to their credit, I
learned the training program was great.
I learned a lot.
But as I mentioned, nowI'm not such a fan of.
Any
enclosures?
Dixie (01:56):
Yeah.
When I was a junior in high school,we had to pick a volunteer program.
We had to go there for twoweeks, so that's what I ended
up doing I picked the zoo.
I went to the zoo and I ended upstaying there the whole summer, and
I went back the following summer.
I really enjoyed it.
But you're right.
Veronica (02:10):
That's funny.
I did the same thing really.
I went back yeah.
We might have even known each other.
Dixie (02:15):
Yeah.
I did mine 92 through 94
Veronica (02:17):
yes.
I think that's pretty close to me.
I enjoyed it as well.
I I got to work in the nocturnal exhibit.
Is it the type of thing you did?
Dixie (02:25):
Actually it was right before the release of Jurassic Park, so
they had the dinosaur exhibit.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, they put me indinosaur exhibit area.
And they had games that they wouldplay for all the kids coming.
I was tyrannosaurus whiteinstead of Vanna White.
That's a like, that's really cute.
(02:46):
And yeah, but they wouldbring out some animals.
I wasn't trained for the mammals,but they would bring out the insects.
And oh yeah.
It was funny because I was there for maybetwo days and they tell me, oh, you're
gonna be in charge of the roaches today.
And I'm terrified of cockroaches.
So I was like, oh my God,this is gonna be horrible.
(03:08):
I'm gonna quit.
But they brought out the hissing onesand then they brought out a giant one
and those they're totally different.
I wasn't scared of 'em at all.
They were actually both really cool.
But yeah.
That's funny.
How
Veronica (03:21):
big are, is a giant cockroach.
Dixie (03:22):
He was probably about like maybe eight inches.
He's big, but he looks nothinglike the ones that we have
coming out of the sewers here.
So it was like totally different.
And I actually held him and he wouldwalk around my hand and then I would
hold the little hissing ones too.
I think it was the Madagascarhissing cockroaches.
(03:43):
But yeah those were really cool too.
And I was fine with those, but if Isee one of the flying ones that come
into your house or one of the onescoming up by the sewers I freak out.
I still can't handle those.
Veronica (03:53):
Me too.
You're like the roach whisperer.
Dixie (03:58):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Could you share what drew you to thedifferent roles that you're doing cause
you said you work with three or fourdifferent groups and how that has changed
your overall perspective on animal welfare
. Veronica (04:16):
I didn't realize, I guess it was about three years ago, there
was a feral cat outside my apartmentthat needed help badly, could barely
walk, was dragging its back leg.
Its eyes were crusted shut.
It was deaf.
And so I started reachingout to all these groups.
I had already volunteered atthe time for Animal Rescue New
Orleans, but I, I just needed help.
(04:37):
What to do with this cat, how totrap it, what's the best way, and
reached out and really the only onethat got back to me was Trap Dat Cat
So I got involved with them, and helpingtrap and also to transport all the cats.
And it was, it's suchan amazing organization.
Nina Hemeter has, at any given time,40 cats on her front porch waiting to,
(04:59):
go get fixed and she's just tireless.
So watching her work and then realizing,just getting more and more, little
by little I started seeing just.
people don't realize thathow rampant animal abuse is.
And it's like when I got involved in onegroup, then I would see more and more
on social media and then that would openme up to another group that I joined
(05:23):
and then that would open me up to see.
It's horrific and I feel peoplehave been, society as a whole has
been so sheltered from it becauseit doesn't often get a lot of press.
And I started really.
Thinking to myself, I know that whatI'm good at, and what I'm not good at,
and I know that I'm good at writingand lobbying and tenacity, if you will.
(05:47):
So I started to write letters andproposals to the city council and
trying to, create an animal, task force.
That you can better,go out and investigate.
Abuse and neglect and also a registryI've been working on because I'm
really very frustrated that peoplecan abuse an animal and easily go
(06:11):
back out and adopt another one.
I just don't see any reasonwhy there's, there should
always already be one in place.
It seems very basic, to have a registrythat you can share between shelters and
rescue organizations across the country.
So I've been working on that and realizingthat's the, probably what I'm best at is
(06:32):
lobbying and advocating, at a state level.
But it's really just opened my eyes to,the irresponsibility of people these
days and the lack of accountability, thesurrenders and the rehoming have been so
normalized and it's really just pathetic.
There are reasons to rehome andsurrender if you cannot care for your
(06:55):
animal, if you have a dire circumstance.
But what I'm seeing isthis, just constant just.
I don't feel like I have time or I'mmoving and I need to rehome in two days
or I'm bringing to a shelter and I feelas though I, I get a lot of pushback
on social media because I'm very,
aggressive with these people andexplaining like, exactly, okay,
(07:17):
you're gonna drop it at a shelter.
Euthanize is a really pretty word for whatactually happens, so let me tell you, you
know what's going to happen to your pet?
And I get some pushback, but I feellike it's time is a society that we stop
normalizing and accepting this behavior.
Dixie (07:33):
I agree with you on that.
And I see it all the time too.
I do cat rescue.
And I find a lot of people don'treally understand what a rescue is for.
A rescue isn't for the people that arejust abandoning their responsibilities.
Like, if you're gonna move,you know you're gonna move, and
don't expect a rescue to take it.
(07:54):
That's not a dire circumstance,I guess maybe I'm looking at
things different too with.
How a rescue should actually be.
A rescue is gonna be for theanimals that are actually abandoned.
The animals that are like falling outof car engines on the street need help.
The sick animal that you seeon the corner that's neglected.
But I get calls too for people,oh, I'm moving tomorrow.
(08:19):
Can you take my animal?
You're a rescue.
Veronica (08:23):
And then they're angry if you don't have space, like you're
just, people just are not educated,they just think there's this utopia
at the rescue where there's just allthis space and money and time and
Dixie (08:36):
Right.
Veronica (08:36):
It's
just not reality.
Dixie (08:37):
Exactly.
And then what you're saying too about theregistry, I think that's a wonderful idea.
But a problem that I often seeis a lot of the rescues not
wanting to work with one another.
Veronica (08:49):
Yes.
So I see it too.
Dixie (08:50):
Yeah, they have that information there, but it's like for some reason
there's just a reluctance to share.
And that's in part why I wantedto start this podcast was to
help bring rescues together we'reall working for the same goal.
Veronica (09:03):
I think that's a great idea.
And I think that hopefully, eventually,they'll be pressured enough.
'cause I feel like that goes along withtransparency to be able to share with
other rescues and network with them.
And some of them do comeoff as elitist to me.
And, closed off.
And I think that's gotta change.
I think there's so many changes,we have to make, we, one foot
(09:24):
in front of the other turtleruns the race, we'll get there.
Dixie (09:27):
Yes, exactly.
So do you do active investigationswith the Humane Society of
Louisiana as a cruelty investigator.
Veronica (09:37):
Yes, and I attended a certification class just the
other day, and it was put onby Humane Society of Louisiana.
I was at in Livingston Parish,Sheriff's Office, and Humane World
for Animals, which was formally.
Humane Society of the UnitedStates, and it was so informative.
I enjoyed it so much.
(09:57):
I took a whole notebook of notes.
They went from, how tospot signs of neglect.
To how to make your report so thatit's, it will hold up in court.
And dog fighting is, I'm happy tosay I see a lot of it getting cracked
down on at this point, starting to,but the dog fighting portion of the
(10:19):
certification was very eyeopening andinteresting, and I wanna share as much.
Many of the tips as I learned, withpeople, because even just a citizen, a
neighbor could see one of these signsand potentially, out a dog fighting ring.
Dixie (10:39):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about that if you wouldn't
mind going over that with us.
Veronica (10:43):
Yeah.
Then, first off, like neglect, peoplealways, and I understand people, just
a citizen, in their neighborhood is.
Reluctant to call the policebecause they don't really know
if the dog's being neglected.
But some signs that they can lookfor would be, by Louisiana law.
Animals must cats and dogs must have asolidly built shelter if they're outdoors.
(11:05):
And that doesn't meanit's tarp or wire crate.
It has to be something solidly built.
That rain cannot get through, thatprotects them from the sun, protects
them from the colds and has soft beddingin it, and things people can look for.
For instance, if the dog looks alittle thin or if there's, they don't
(11:27):
see food and water bowls nearby.
If the dog, the animal has changed.
And also, spots.
This was interesting to me on theirbackside, on either side of the tail.
That gets worn down.
And it's definitely something that allneglected dogs have that characteristic
of the hair wears off and it's fromnot having a soft place to sit.
(11:52):
So over time, and they're also somewhatskinny, so there's no fat padding there.
So that's something people can look for.
And let's see something elseinteresting I thought was that.
For livestock horses, for instance, if,people should look for if there's hay
or grass or water buckets available,and if the tree bark is missing,
(12:16):
I thought this was interesting.
The horses already look skinnyand there's tree bark missing
from the bottom of the trees.
It's because they're starving andthey're peeling the bark off to survive.
Dixie (12:26):
I didn't know that.
Veronica (12:28):
I didn't either.
And I thought that was one of thesethings may not be cause for concern, but
several of these things absolutely are
Dixie (12:36):
right,
Veronica (12:36):
several of these things together.
And it's just if they seesomething, say something.
And a lot of people have thisattitude of nothing well they're
not gonna do anything about it.
And that angers me because theydefinitely won't if we don't speak up.
And if the more people that you know,instead of commenting on Facebook,
maybe email or call their districtattorney or their local sheriff's
(13:00):
office or their city council and demandchange, it takes as much time to do
that as it does to say, oh, the hopesomebody helps this poor animal, online.
That doesn't help the animal at all.
Your energy would better be better,much better utilized to send a message.
Dixie (13:20):
And I find a lot of people on social media do find that
they think that they're helpingby doing that, and they're not.
That's like one of my biggest petpeeves ever is that you're gonna
sit down and you're gonna commentsomething like, oh here's this.
Can you go help?
Veronica (13:38):
I hope someone helps them.
I'm like, you are someone.
Dixie (13:42):
And like you said, it could just be something as simple as that,
that if you see something that's wrong,then post it on social media, but
also try to do something about it too.
Veronica (13:53):
Absolutely.
And I'm grateful for peoplethat, bring awareness to it.
Like, oh, I saw this dog doingthis, I've seen hundreds of
comments when 90% of 'em are.
Lengthy enough it would take maybeless time to write just a little
quick email and it's just, they'resaying, oh, this is terrible.
I hope someone helps them.
And, put your money where your mouth is.
(14:14):
I'm getting tired of it, honestly.
'cause it's gonna take effort from allof us to make a difference because we put
ourselves in this position as, a wholeby being irresponsible with our pets.
So that we're overpopulatedand now it's an epidemic.
Dixie (14:29):
Yeah.
And then another issue with that,when people do those posts and
everybody is commenting on it,like you said, this is terrible.
If it's a situation that I mightactually be able to go help with.
It's hard for me to go through and lookto see if the situation has actually
been taken care of already, becauseyou gotta go through 30, 40 comments
Veronica (14:50):
you're so
right.
Dixie (14:52):
Yeah.
And there's none in there where somebodyactually has helped, or there might be
a comment in there where it looks likesomebody, did help, but they didn't help.
And so it just really doesmake things more difficult.
Veronica (15:05):
And I've noticed that too.
And I have to go to the top and I haveto hit like new comments, 'cause I don't
wanna drive, honestly, two hours , ifsomebody's, helped and I have to look
at, and try to siphon through them.
I think it brings moreawareness to the post.
I think the algorithm, I'm not reallysavvy ab I don't know much about that,
but at the same time, yes, absolutelypeople sometimes offer to help and
(15:27):
I think it gets lost in the fold,
Dixie (15:29):
absolutely.
So what were other signsof neglect from your class?
Veronica (15:35):
Basically, ribs showing and, animals should not have prominent ribs.
Animals that are taken care of and theyshouldn't have a spine that you can,
see from a distance or see up close.
They shouldn't, you shouldn'tbe able to see their bones.
Also, any dog, we learned thata lot of things about, there's.
(15:57):
Oftentimes like dog fighting,for instance, if people hear dogs
barking and they don't see themand they're hidden from sight.
We learned that, anytime that's happeningand you don't see, say you're a neighbor
and you don't see this dog ever get walkedor come out, but you can hear it barking.
Like that's something to be aware of.
And also, a lot of timespeople are hesitant to ask.
(16:21):
About their, if they see a pet,say, tied in a side yard, they're
hesitant to ask Hey, is that dog okay?
But you can always make somethingup like, oh, I was just checking.
I have a dog.
I wanted to see if maybe y'all wannado a play date or, I'm pretty bold.
Like I'll find my fence in themiddle of the night and just go look.
(16:43):
But I don't expect everybody to do that.
But yeah, neglect the food, the watervery little to no human interaction.
I just met a dog walker inone of the neighborhoods in
New Orleans, and she's great.
She seems to keep a really sharp eye out.
She said, oh, there's this dog.
It doesn't have anyaccess to food or water.
(17:04):
It's chained up.
It has very littleshelter I've never seen.
She, and I said, how wonderfulthat while you're walking your
dog, the dog's doing your job.
You're paying attention, to what andit turns out that she wouldn't end up
getting the little dog from the people.
So that was really a great story.
And I was, I couldn't believeshe's a wonderful person.
(17:24):
I was really, I said, if everybodywould do that on their walks,
Dixie (17:30):
Absolutely.
Veronica (17:32):
As far as like the neglect, obviously, dogs are in fighting are
neglected and we learned a lot about, whatto look for signs of dog fighting as well.
Dixie (17:44):
And what would those signs be?
Veronica (17:47):
One of the things that stuck in my mind that really stood
out is if you see a dog that's,possibly, maybe part pit bull.
Even with heavy chains, there's noreason for any animal, to be on a chain
that can tow up a 5,000 pound boat.
A heavy chain is, from what we learned,it's a sign for sure, and they do
(18:12):
that, so that the dogs are conditioned.
They build more muscle.
And honestly, anything that peoplethink, I know people think dog
fighting is horrific, but timesit by a million because the things
that we saw in this class were sobarbaric and these are the people that
do this are absolute monsters and.
(18:33):
Yeah, the people have no ideahow actually horrible it is.
And they do things like break the doga dog's front legs and throw it in the
pen, poke its eyes out so it's blindand throw it in the dog fight pen.
It is horrible.
And these are not peoplethat just dog fight.
These are people that rape andmurder and sell drugs to children.
(18:54):
I'm glad to see they'recracking down on it.
But one thing people can look for,especially in rural areas, is.
The dogs are barking, but they'repretty much hidden from sight.
This person has dogs, but you don'tsee them ever out in the open.
And if you can get a visual, another signis a dog with a heavy chain that's on
(19:14):
this circular or or worn down area of theground where it's just dirt because that
indicates that is the dog's whole life.
There's, just an area where the dogis existing is all worn down to dirt.
You pretty much know the dogdoesn't go anywhere else, ever.
That's his whole life.
(19:34):
And so that was another thing I found.
I found that very interesting.
I did not know that.
And then the scarring is something.
Didn't know.
What I learned is that blackhair on a dog, once they get a
wound, the hair grows back white.
Yeah, and you can see for themost part, scarring from a dog.
(19:57):
Fight's gonna be on the headand the front legs because
they're going into for the hill.
And the examples we saw were dogs,black dogs had these little white
kind of cuts all over, and it waswhite hair that had grown back because
they're, I guess it's their pigment.
The hair doesn't once thefollicle is damaged, it doesn't
(20:18):
grow back with the same pigment.
So I thought that was, I thoughtthat was pretty interesting.
I did not know that.
Dixie (20:26):
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
Veronica (20:30):
So it's just the dog fighting is definitely people that if you
think, oh, that could be dog fighting.
It probably is.
Because, and it's usually like Isaid, you don't see those dogs, you
see her barking, you know they'redogs, but you don't see them anywhere.
And it happens.
It's amazing.
It happens next door to perfectlynice, good citizens and they just don't
(20:52):
even realize it's happening next door.
And it, it is a billion dollar business.
Dixie (20:57):
So do you think it's that more people are just oblivious or
they just don't wanna accept thatit actually could be happening?
Veronica (21:06):
I think it's both.
And I also think that people have a hardtime with thinking that their judgment
was off, or people have a hard time.
being wrong if they'rewrong about something.
And I think that also people havea hard time with say there is
a dog fighter living next door.
That makes my neighborhoodin my home look like shit.
(21:29):
Excuse my language.
You know what I mean?
And I feel like they're hesitant inthat way as well because of how it
looks on, them and the neighborhood.
But I think people are justalso just not educated to.
how prevalent and how widespread
right dog
fighting has become.
Dixie (21:45):
And I think a lot of people don't trust their intuition.
If you think something is wrong, it'sbecause most likely something is wrong.
But I believe that goes back to thatwhole judgment thing, like you said,
because people don't wanna say somethingbecause, oh, what if I'm wrong?
But I find from my personalexperience, I like to follow my gut.
(22:06):
It, it usually doesn't fail me.
Veronica (22:07):
And
I agree, and I'm trying to get better inmy own personal life with that, because
my gut , it's never been wrong, but Istill, am working on trusting it because
it's, a scary thing because what ifyou're wrong or what if you make this
decision and it's comes back on you?
But really, the police are never going to.
be mad at you.
And people need to realizethat our elected officials
(22:29):
and our police work for us.
They're not the other way around.
Dixie (22:33):
When it comes to the fighting, is it more prevalent in rural areas,
city areas, or could it be both?
Veronica (22:41):
It can be both.
It is more prevalent in.
A lot of rural areas, but you can,there's few other houses well within site.
And then a lot of times in a cityenvironment, they'll have dogs,
not as many, but they'll have dogs.
And that's usually like a transporting,I didn't realize they transport dogs
across state lines constantly for fights.
(23:02):
So
oftentimes they'll go from arural area to like a holding home,
Dixie (23:06):
uhhuh,
Veronica (23:06):
sometimes often in a city area, and then they're taken from there across
state lines or to their next fight.
Dixie (23:14):
Yeah.
I know in a lot of the small ruralparishes in Louisiana don't even
have animal control, and some ofthem don't even have a shelter.
So that's why I was wondering,if it's more under the radar
if they do it in a rural area.
Veronica (23:28):
For sure.
And I think that, that brings me tolike, one of the training things in
a rural area that they use for dogsthat are being trained to fight up
is, they put either wildlife likea raccoon, but most often cats.
Or kittens and a little, okay.
They use them for dog fightingbait, and the dog will, let the
(23:49):
dog them chase the, they hang themfrom like a stick or a metal rod.
And once the dog has done enoughwork, they allow the dog to have the,
whatever they're baiting it with.
And I think people need to really.
Stop giving oh, it's all day long.
Free kittens.
Free, puppy free.
(24:09):
That's inviting a torturingsicko or a dog fighter.
You just can't do it.
And if you do it, you've got to,actually be proactive and check the vet
references and go to the home and askfor photos in the future because it's
just, it feeds the dog fighting industry,
to keep
doing this with the free animals.
Dixie (24:31):
You tell people though, but they don't wanna hear that.
There's situations where I've seenposts where they're giving away kittens
and I'll go in and monitor the post.
I cannot always take 'em in.
But if it looks like it's a diresituation and it looks like somebody
who may be doing fighting or somethinglike that, is commenting on that
post, I'll be like, Hey, I'm a rescue.
(24:51):
I'll take those kittens.
Veronica (24:53):
I love that you do that.
Yeah, I try to do that too.
If I say, I'm like, this personlooks dangerous, I'll take it.
Yeah.
I'll go,
Dixie (25:01):
I'll go look on the profiles and I hate to say that 'cause I
don't want people to go put theirprofiles private now, but yeah, no,
I'll go look and see and you can gothrough some of those photos and tell
Veronica (25:12):
just like I love that you do
that.
Dixie (25:13):
Yeah.
Just like I have some groups thatI run and I've had breeders try
to go push animals in my groupsfor rehoming, and I'm like, yeah,
this looks like a breeder to me.
So they end up gettingbanned from the group.
Veronica (25:25):
I love it.
So I do look at people's profilestoo, and if I see it, I'm like, please
don't give this person a kitten.
All they have is pictures of pit bulls.
And I hate to make that judgmentand I apologize to them.
If I've made it from, ifI'm wrong, then I apologize.
But if it saves one animal, I don't reallycare what people think of me or if I
(25:45):
hurt somebody's feelings, to be honest.
Dixie (25:47):
I understand that for sure.
Veronica (25:50):
I'm not worried with humans' feelings because they have a voice
and they're able to make choices.
All I care about is theanimals, quite frankly.
Dixie (25:58):
Yep, I understand that.
, When you see these signs, shouldyou be getting the authorities
involved, or who should you call?
Veronica (26:06):
They were clear with us that one, one of these signs, if it's something
like, the dog looks a little thin.
You have to use yourjudgment one of those times.
If the dog looks a little thin and it'sgot a tarp for a shelter or it's, the dog
looks a little thin and there's multipleother dogs on the property, or you can
(26:27):
hear multiple other dogs on the property.
Somebody that's a neighbor,let's say, who's in a rural area,
you can hear the dogs barking.
You never see them out in the open.
The neighbor is not very neighborly.
Mostly keeps to themselves.
Sometimes maybe has on a, anygiven night, multiple cars.
There you just, you see the signsand then you call the police.
(26:50):
You can call the non-emergencynumber or, 'cause a lot of people,
like you said, don't have animalcontrol or shelters to call.
So in that instance, they wouldcall the police because, and
like I said, dog fighting.
They're starting to crack down all over.
They're getting very angry about it.
Finally, and neglect I was happyto say that see multiple rural
(27:14):
sheriffs, sheriff's officesrepresented at the certification.
Lots of police from different parishesin Louisiana that don't have shelters.
So they had sent some of theirpolice officers to get training.
So I really believe it's startingto turn around and you just call the
(27:35):
police, just tell them what they saw.
It's called the HumaneSociety of Louisiana.
If you're not getting any reaction,because Jeff Dorson is amazing and
he's really, he's got connectionsall over the state and he's very
good at getting something done.
If he gets a complaint, he'll sendone of us to follow up with it.
(27:56):
There was recently a guy in Monroe.
He didn't have anyone to call as far asanimal control, so he called the Humane
Society of Louisiana, and it was aboutsome sheep that were in a field and it was
dirt field and one of a baby one was dead.
It had been starved to death.
And he said, I didn't really know.
I didn't really wanna getinvolved, that's just not right.
(28:18):
And he said, thank you guysso much for following up and.
Turns out, they were being starved.
Somebody had rented the land andjust disappeared and left these
animals just to starve to death.
Dixie (28:29):
Oh, wow.
Veronica (28:29):
And I
said, sir, we're sograteful when people call.
I said, thank you so much.
He said they were in a dirt field.
That was, that gentleman sign: a dirt field and then he said he (28:36):
undefined
came, he drove by again two weekslater and there was the dead baby
sheep in the middle of the field.
And he said, I just feel terrible.
I waited that long becauseobviously a dirt field doesn't
have any food for the animals.
He's like, I should have calleda long time ago right now.
Dixie (28:55):
Who taught the class
Veronica (28:57):
that was a trainer from the Humane World for Animals the
Humane Society of the United States.
She was great.
She's been an investigator for years,I believe, and then of course I went, I
love to like research, so I looked herup and I saw multiple YouTube videos.
She had actually been an animalcontrol officer and now was
(29:20):
a trainer in the program.
And she was reallyinformative and wonderful.
I just really she gave usdifferent cases to look at.
For instance, like one had I.
I think that, it's rampantwhere people move out of their
homes and leave their pets in anabandoned house to starve to death.
And she just really kept reiteratinghow important it is as investigators
(29:44):
to be thorough with our reports.
A dog was left to starveto death in a mobile home.
And she, that time they gotthere, the dog was liquified, but.
She said, we were so thorough.
We took video of absolutely everything,and they found the dog's teeth and
the, it's a horrible story, the teethand the walls, because the dog was so
(30:07):
panicked as it was starving to death.
And
the dog's nails were worn down tonubs from scratching to try to fight
its way out of the house as it wasstarving to death, which is the worst.
Most painful death.
And she said they were able to prosecutebecause of how thorough they were
and getting samples of the wood fromthe wall and then that matched the,
(30:29):
under the nails and they found like,
I said, his, the teeth and nail bitsin the wall and it was just horrible.
But she was trying to make thepoint that every little thing counts
when you are doing investigations.
Dixie (30:44):
I believe I've actually heard about that case too.
I don't know if I saw a video or somethingabout it, but that sounds very familiar.
Veronica (30:52):
I was openly crying.
I was like, okay, I thinkI'm gonna go to the bathroom.
Take a break.
It was tough, but like, it'shard to see and she said, I don't
like to show a lot of graphicvideos and these trainings, but.
Some of them I feel are necessary.
And I feel, I wish I couldshow the whole world.
I wish I could sit the whole world downand make them watch those kind of things.
'cause I think then maybesomething will click
(31:14):
right in their
brains.
Dixie (31:16):
And unfortunately that seems to be a thing when people move out, they
just will leave their pets inside.
Veronica (31:23):
Yeah.
It's just bizarre.
And I mean that I just feel likethe big thing, that will maybe stop
that is just, harsher penalties.
I feel like it definitelyshould be mandatory jail time.
These animals feel the sameemotions as human beings.
I don't understand why the jailtime is different for animal abuse.
Dixie (31:45):
Yeah.
And they just seem to just get likea slap on the wrist most of the time.
Veronica (31:49):
And then, I, the FBI themselves say that 81% of people
that abuse or neglect animals.
81% of them will go on to commit a crime.
Often the next crime is against a child.
And then it goes to domestic violence andthen it goes to bigger ones like murder.
And I just feel like why?
I'm nobody.
I'm not trained in any kinda legislation,but it seems to me like it's law 1 0
(32:14):
1 to cut the problem off at the knees.
Like why wouldn't they stop it?
Animal abuse with a harsherpenalty so that they can't go on
to commit crimes against people..
I just feel like that's themost simple way to have crime
go down in cities, period.
Cut the problem off at the kneesbefore it gets any worse, and I
don't get why that's not happening.
Dixie (32:36):
Yeah, I don't either because you always hear that statistic.
But then it's never taken seriously.
So I don't know.
Veronica (32:47):
I think too, if people, were more vocal about, It there's
a great page on Facebook.
. It's Citizens AgainstAnimal Abuse and Neglect.
It is awful.
I get all my news from there everymorning when I wake up on animal
abuse and the admin of that pageprovides a link that you can find
your legislator and it gives you theiremail, their contact email and stuff.
(33:10):
And I think it's very helpful 'causeI think the more noise that's made,
the more they're gonna pay attention.
So I really encourage, likeI said, people to contact.
Legislators and just one sentence, evenlike harsher sentences for animal abuse,
because whatever these people are loud,the most loud about is what's what
(33:30):
they're gonna put on their priority list.
Dixie (33:33):
The registry that you're working on, what are your plans with that?
And have you started puttingthis registry together yet?
Veronica (33:41):
Yes.
One of my weaknesses, isany kind of, administrative,
like spreadsheets and such.
So what I started doingis just collecting data.
I take screenshots and then record thenames of each person that's, convicted.
And then I went to charge.
And I'm starting it just in Louisiana.
But I'm hoping, that it's gonna be, Ihave a friend that says Rescue in Florida.
(34:07):
She's very involved.
So we're back and forth talking about,so it can be shared between states.
And so I've, now, I've got the data.
Basically all I need next is for it to bein the full right format, and a shareable
kind of website where people can log on.
And of course it has to be I'mjust still struggling with how
(34:28):
to make sure that it's not justsomebody claiming there was abuse.
You see what I'm saying?
Like, 'cause I don't wanna do itjust for people that are convicted
'cause so few get convicted,
right?
So that's where I'm struggling, it'sjust how do you make sure it's not,
somebody just being mad at someone else.
Oh hey, they abuse theirdog, put 'em on the registry.
(34:50):
That's something that I'm gonna lookto people that know a little more than
me about these things that hopefullyI can get some advice on, how to
prevent that and make it, a completelylegitimate and reliable source.
Dixie (35:05):
So what kind of support or collaboration do you think would
be the most helpful in bringingthese registry ideas to fruition?
Veronica (35:14):
I think, first to, just to get the registry created.
If there's anybody out there that'sgood with Excel spreadsheets and I'm
willing to put money into it and I haveto hire help, of course there's a limit
to that, and I I can't pay severalhundred dollars an hour to anybody,
but, I think just the basic format, thebasic skeleton of the actual website.
(35:37):
The format of how you would put in,the names of people and what city.
And I've gotten a lot of helpwith that from Chat, GPT.
But there's only so much he can do for me.
And then at once it's created I'm going tomarket it to rescues and animal shelters.
And then what I want is crimestoppers to step up and.
(36:00):
Take a more active role and people youcan call Crime Stoppers now to report
animal abuse, but I want them morevisible and more actively involved.
Lee County and Florida isdoing an incredible job.
They have an animal abuse taskforce, they have a registry.
Crime Stoppers is very visible.
They put up billboards and I'm tryingto model the program after them.
Dixie (36:26):
Okay.
Veronica (36:26):
It's a lot.
Dixie (36:27):
Yeah.
I didn't know anything about that.
. Veronica (36:29):
It's Lee County in Florida.
It's right around Sarasota, Florida.
And they have a whole animal cruelty task.
Force.
And their own page.
The sheriff started andthey've been really nice.
I said is I'm trying to dothe same thing and they were.
Said, email us.
So I did, and they've beenvery nice and helpful about it.
And so that's one state that Icould share the registry with.
Dixie (36:50):
So that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At least it's one step closer, right?
Veronica (36:53):
Yeah, I'll get there.
Dixie (36:56):
It's, it sounds like a wonderful idea
Veronica (36:59):
thank
you.
I, yeah, I think it's necessary,don't you think, would we need that?
Dixie (37:04):
Yeah.
I think it would be somethingthat would be needed.
I think it's a really good idea
Veronica (37:10):
because I just asked, how do we know that these people that also
people surrendering for no good reason.
They move to a new apartmentand they decide to get another
pet and they just can do it.
That's not right.
And , I just feel like there'sgotta be more accountability when
you surrender a pet for, 'causeyou don't have time, quote unquote.
You need to be doing morethan signing a paper and I've.
(37:31):
Called out the SPCA for that, and I said,you need to at least have them volunteer
a day, make them watch a film, have, somekind of educational awareness brought to
them when they surrender so that they justdon't think it's, and oh, no big deal.
Dixie (37:48):
And I believe there are cases when people need to surrender,
medical issues, things of that nature.
I understand that.
But like you said, for someof these things where it's
just like, oh, we're moving.
Let's go get rid of the dog.
Let's go surrender the dog.
Or, I'm having a baby.
Let's go get rid of the cat.
And I think that definitelyis a part of the problem.
(38:09):
I, I do wish people understood what wentinto it when they do surrender an animal.
And in a lot of the times it'snot so much with the dogs.
It does happen.
But like with adult cats, theygrieve themselves to death.
They'll stop eating.
Veronica (38:25):
I know it's horrible.
I love cats are, like theforefront of my heart.
I try to help as many aspossible and people just don't
understand how bonded cats get.
And there's been some little researchdone on cats so I can't even imagine.
I think probably 50 years from nowpeople are gonna find out the cats.
Are like these deeply feeling, highlyintellectual, beings that we have
(38:49):
discounted for so long, and they do.
They grieve, they stop eating, theystart having behavior issues using
the bathroom outside the litter box.
It's just very sad becausecats do not do well in new
environments, a lot of the time.
Dixie (39:05):
What message would you like to share with our listeners who are
passionate about helping animals?
Veronica (39:12):
I would say please get involved because the problem is
so overblown now that it's gonnatake a lot more than us in rescue.
To make a difference.
We need every single person who youknow, cares about animals or thinks that
it's sad when they see an animal abuse.
(39:32):
Write a letter, write an email,keep the same email, copy
and paste it if you need to.
I often put emails that I send onlineand on social media, and they can
copy and paste that or make a calland just say, I'd like to leave
a message for mayor so and okay.
What's the message?
We need stricter penaltiesfor animal abuse.
And I voted for him and Iexpect to see it happen.
(39:56):
It's very simple.
They work for us, put 'em to work.
We need help.
Dixie (40:02):
Definitely.
Thank you for sharing allthat information with me.
It was very informative.
Some things definitely that I didn't know.
So I'm so glad that you were ableto come on the show with me today.
Veronica (40:15):
Thank you Dixie.
I'm so excited that you have this show.
I love it.
I always listen to it.
Dixie (40:21):
Oh great.
Veronica (40:21):
So thank you so much for doing all this hard work because I
know it's not easy and thank you forbeing, bringing awareness, to people.
Dixie (40:27):
Sure.
If you know anybody else that wantsto be on the show, please let me know.
Veronica (40:31):
I will.
Thank you so much for having me.
Dixie (40:34):
Alright, you're welcome.
It was good talking to you.
And that's all the time wehave for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
(40:54):
explore the world of animal rescue.
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
people and rescues making adifference in the lives of animals.
Hi Veronica.
How are you?
Veronica (00:11):
Hi Dixie.
I'm great.
Thanks so much for calling.
Dixie (00:14):
You're welcome.
Thank you for joining me today.
So we could talk about the workyou do as an animal advocate.
I understand you work for severalorganizations, so tell me a
little bit about yourself andthe groups you volunteer with.
Veronica (00:28):
I try to lend my time to anybody I see reaching out on social media.
First off, that big easy animalrescue is one and chat that cat
and, animal rescue New Orleans.
This most recently I've been doingwork with investigative, work with
the Humane Society of Louisiana.
And that's been very rewardingand I feel like we're really
(00:51):
making a difference there.
And how did you get started in this?
Were you always into animals?
As a, when I was about 12, I've alwaysbeen into animals, and at age 12 I've
joined a program at the zoo, whichnow as an adult, I'm not a fan of
(01:11):
zoos, but at the time they took usto the SBCA as part of the training
program to be a junior zookeeper.
And at the SBCA, they showed usa film about what happens to.
Animals one, they're euthanizedand it was really jarring.
And ever since then I've been, triedto be an advocate and donate, know
(01:34):
and give time as much as possible.
Dixie (01:38):
Yeah.
I was actually a volunteerat the zoo as well.
Veronica (01:43):
Oh, you were?
Okay.
Yeah.
. I was in this junior zookeeper programand I did, I'll say to their credit, I
learned the training program was great.
I learned a lot.
But as I mentioned, nowI'm not such a fan of.
Any
enclosures?
Dixie (01:56):
Yeah.
When I was a junior in high school,we had to pick a volunteer program.
We had to go there for twoweeks, so that's what I ended
up doing I picked the zoo.
I went to the zoo and I ended upstaying there the whole summer, and
I went back the following summer.
I really enjoyed it.
But you're right.
Veronica (02:10):
That's funny.
I did the same thing really.
I went back yeah.
We might have even known each other.
Dixie (02:15):
Yeah.
I did mine 92 through 94
Veronica (02:17):
yes.
I think that's pretty close to me.
I enjoyed it as well.
I I got to work in the nocturnal exhibit.
Is it the type of thing you did?
Dixie (02:25):
Actually it was right before the release of Jurassic Park, so
they had the dinosaur exhibit.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, they put me indinosaur exhibit area.
And they had games that they wouldplay for all the kids coming.
I was tyrannosaurus whiteinstead of Vanna White.
That's a like, that's really cute.
(02:46):
And yeah, but they wouldbring out some animals.
I wasn't trained for the mammals,but they would bring out the insects.
And oh yeah.
It was funny because I was there for maybetwo days and they tell me, oh, you're
gonna be in charge of the roaches today.
And I'm terrified of cockroaches.
So I was like, oh my God,this is gonna be horrible.
(03:08):
I'm gonna quit.
But they brought out the hissing onesand then they brought out a giant one
and those they're totally different.
I wasn't scared of 'em at all.
They were actually both really cool.
But yeah.
That's funny.
How
Veronica (03:21):
big are, is a giant cockroach.
Dixie (03:22):
He was probably about like maybe eight inches.
He's big, but he looks nothinglike the ones that we have
coming out of the sewers here.
So it was like totally different.
And I actually held him and he wouldwalk around my hand and then I would
hold the little hissing ones too.
I think it was the Madagascarhissing cockroaches.
(03:43):
But yeah those were really cool too.
And I was fine with those, but if Isee one of the flying ones that come
into your house or one of the onescoming up by the sewers I freak out.
I still can't handle those.
Veronica (03:53):
Me too.
You're like the roach whisperer.
Dixie (03:58):
Yeah, I don't think so.
Could you share what drew you to thedifferent roles that you're doing cause
you said you work with three or fourdifferent groups and how that has changed
your overall perspective on animal welfare
. Veronica (04:16):
I didn't realize, I guess it was about three years ago, there
was a feral cat outside my apartmentthat needed help badly, could barely
walk, was dragging its back leg.
Its eyes were crusted shut.
It was deaf.
And so I started reachingout to all these groups.
I had already volunteered atthe time for Animal Rescue New
Orleans, but I, I just needed help.
(04:37):
What to do with this cat, how totrap it, what's the best way, and
reached out and really the only onethat got back to me was Trap Dat Cat
So I got involved with them, and helpingtrap and also to transport all the cats.
And it was, it's suchan amazing organization.
Nina Hemeter has, at any given time,40 cats on her front porch waiting to,
(04:59):
go get fixed and she's just tireless.
So watching her work and then realizing,just getting more and more, little
by little I started seeing just.
people don't realize thathow rampant animal abuse is.
And it's like when I got involved in onegroup, then I would see more and more
on social media and then that would openme up to another group that I joined
(05:23):
and then that would open me up to see.
It's horrific and I feel peoplehave been, society as a whole has
been so sheltered from it becauseit doesn't often get a lot of press.
And I started really.
Thinking to myself, I know that whatI'm good at, and what I'm not good at,
and I know that I'm good at writingand lobbying and tenacity, if you will.
(05:47):
So I started to write letters andproposals to the city council and
trying to, create an animal, task force.
That you can better,go out and investigate.
Abuse and neglect and also a registryI've been working on because I'm
really very frustrated that peoplecan abuse an animal and easily go
(06:11):
back out and adopt another one.
I just don't see any reasonwhy there's, there should
always already be one in place.
It seems very basic, to have a registrythat you can share between shelters and
rescue organizations across the country.
So I've been working on that and realizingthat's the, probably what I'm best at is
(06:32):
lobbying and advocating, at a state level.
But it's really just opened my eyes to,the irresponsibility of people these
days and the lack of accountability, thesurrenders and the rehoming have been so
normalized and it's really just pathetic.
There are reasons to rehome andsurrender if you cannot care for your
(06:55):
animal, if you have a dire circumstance.
But what I'm seeing isthis, just constant just.
I don't feel like I have time or I'mmoving and I need to rehome in two days
or I'm bringing to a shelter and I feelas though I, I get a lot of pushback
on social media because I'm very,
aggressive with these people andexplaining like, exactly, okay,
(07:17):
you're gonna drop it at a shelter.
Euthanize is a really pretty word for whatactually happens, so let me tell you, you
know what's going to happen to your pet?
And I get some pushback, but I feellike it's time is a society that we stop
normalizing and accepting this behavior.
Dixie (07:33):
I agree with you on that.
And I see it all the time too.
I do cat rescue.
And I find a lot of people don'treally understand what a rescue is for.
A rescue isn't for the people that arejust abandoning their responsibilities.
Like, if you're gonna move,you know you're gonna move, and
don't expect a rescue to take it.
(07:54):
That's not a dire circumstance,I guess maybe I'm looking at
things different too with.
How a rescue should actually be.
A rescue is gonna be for theanimals that are actually abandoned.
The animals that are like falling outof car engines on the street need help.
The sick animal that you seeon the corner that's neglected.
But I get calls too for people,oh, I'm moving tomorrow.
(08:19):
Can you take my animal?
You're a rescue.
Veronica (08:23):
And then they're angry if you don't have space, like you're
just, people just are not educated,they just think there's this utopia
at the rescue where there's just allthis space and money and time and
Dixie (08:36):
Right.
Veronica (08:36):
It's
just not reality.
Dixie (08:37):
Exactly.
And then what you're saying too about theregistry, I think that's a wonderful idea.
But a problem that I often seeis a lot of the rescues not
wanting to work with one another.
Veronica (08:49):
Yes.
So I see it too.
Dixie (08:50):
Yeah, they have that information there, but it's like for some reason
there's just a reluctance to share.
And that's in part why I wantedto start this podcast was to
help bring rescues together we'reall working for the same goal.
Veronica (09:03):
I think that's a great idea.
And I think that hopefully, eventually,they'll be pressured enough.
'cause I feel like that goes along withtransparency to be able to share with
other rescues and network with them.
And some of them do comeoff as elitist to me.
And, closed off.
And I think that's gotta change.
I think there's so many changes,we have to make, we, one foot
(09:24):
in front of the other turtleruns the race, we'll get there.
Dixie (09:27):
Yes, exactly.
So do you do active investigationswith the Humane Society of
Louisiana as a cruelty investigator.
Veronica (09:37):
Yes, and I attended a certification class just the
other day, and it was put onby Humane Society of Louisiana.
I was at in Livingston Parish,Sheriff's Office, and Humane World
for Animals, which was formally.
Humane Society of the UnitedStates, and it was so informative.
I enjoyed it so much.
(09:57):
I took a whole notebook of notes.
They went from, how tospot signs of neglect.
To how to make your report so thatit's, it will hold up in court.
And dog fighting is, I'm happy tosay I see a lot of it getting cracked
down on at this point, starting to,but the dog fighting portion of the
(10:19):
certification was very eyeopening andinteresting, and I wanna share as much.
Many of the tips as I learned, withpeople, because even just a citizen, a
neighbor could see one of these signsand potentially, out a dog fighting ring.
Dixie (10:39):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about that if you wouldn't
mind going over that with us.
Veronica (10:43):
Yeah.
Then, first off, like neglect, peoplealways, and I understand people, just
a citizen, in their neighborhood is.
Reluctant to call the policebecause they don't really know
if the dog's being neglected.
But some signs that they can lookfor would be, by Louisiana law.
Animals must cats and dogs must have asolidly built shelter if they're outdoors.
(11:05):
And that doesn't meanit's tarp or wire crate.
It has to be something solidly built.
That rain cannot get through, thatprotects them from the sun, protects
them from the colds and has soft beddingin it, and things people can look for.
For instance, if the dog looks alittle thin or if there's, they don't
(11:27):
see food and water bowls nearby.
If the dog, the animal has changed.
And also, spots.
This was interesting to me on theirbackside, on either side of the tail.
That gets worn down.
And it's definitely something that allneglected dogs have that characteristic
of the hair wears off and it's fromnot having a soft place to sit.
(11:52):
So over time, and they're also somewhatskinny, so there's no fat padding there.
So that's something people can look for.
And let's see something elseinteresting I thought was that.
For livestock horses, for instance, if,people should look for if there's hay
or grass or water buckets available,and if the tree bark is missing,
(12:16):
I thought this was interesting.
The horses already look skinnyand there's tree bark missing
from the bottom of the trees.
It's because they're starving andthey're peeling the bark off to survive.
Dixie (12:26):
I didn't know that.
Veronica (12:28):
I didn't either.
And I thought that was one of thesethings may not be cause for concern, but
several of these things absolutely are
Dixie (12:36):
right,
Veronica (12:36):
several of these things together.
And it's just if they seesomething, say something.
And a lot of people have thisattitude of nothing well they're
not gonna do anything about it.
And that angers me because theydefinitely won't if we don't speak up.
And if the more people that you know,instead of commenting on Facebook,
maybe email or call their districtattorney or their local sheriff's
(13:00):
office or their city council and demandchange, it takes as much time to do
that as it does to say, oh, the hopesomebody helps this poor animal, online.
That doesn't help the animal at all.
Your energy would better be better,much better utilized to send a message.
Dixie (13:20):
And I find a lot of people on social media do find that
they think that they're helpingby doing that, and they're not.
That's like one of my biggest petpeeves ever is that you're gonna
sit down and you're gonna commentsomething like, oh here's this.
Can you go help?
Veronica (13:38):
I hope someone helps them.
I'm like, you are someone.
Dixie (13:42):
And like you said, it could just be something as simple as that,
that if you see something that's wrong,then post it on social media, but
also try to do something about it too.
Veronica (13:53):
Absolutely.
And I'm grateful for peoplethat, bring awareness to it.
Like, oh, I saw this dog doingthis, I've seen hundreds of
comments when 90% of 'em are.
Lengthy enough it would take maybeless time to write just a little
quick email and it's just, they'resaying, oh, this is terrible.
I hope someone helps them.
And, put your money where your mouth is.
(14:14):
I'm getting tired of it, honestly.
'cause it's gonna take effort from allof us to make a difference because we put
ourselves in this position as, a wholeby being irresponsible with our pets.
So that we're overpopulatedand now it's an epidemic.
Dixie (14:29):
Yeah.
And then another issue with that,when people do those posts and
everybody is commenting on it,like you said, this is terrible.
If it's a situation that I mightactually be able to go help with.
It's hard for me to go through and lookto see if the situation has actually
been taken care of already, becauseyou gotta go through 30, 40 comments
Veronica (14:50):
you're so
right.
Dixie (14:52):
Yeah.
And there's none in there where somebodyactually has helped, or there might be
a comment in there where it looks likesomebody, did help, but they didn't help.
And so it just really doesmake things more difficult.
Veronica (15:05):
And I've noticed that too.
And I have to go to the top and I haveto hit like new comments, 'cause I don't
wanna drive, honestly, two hours , ifsomebody's, helped and I have to look
at, and try to siphon through them.
I think it brings moreawareness to the post.
I think the algorithm, I'm not reallysavvy ab I don't know much about that,
but at the same time, yes, absolutelypeople sometimes offer to help and
(15:27):
I think it gets lost in the fold,
Dixie (15:29):
absolutely.
So what were other signsof neglect from your class?
Veronica (15:35):
Basically, ribs showing and, animals should not have prominent ribs.
Animals that are taken care of and theyshouldn't have a spine that you can,
see from a distance or see up close.
They shouldn't, you shouldn'tbe able to see their bones.
Also, any dog, we learned thata lot of things about, there's.
(15:57):
Oftentimes like dog fighting,for instance, if people hear dogs
barking and they don't see themand they're hidden from sight.
We learned that, anytime that's happeningand you don't see, say you're a neighbor
and you don't see this dog ever get walkedor come out, but you can hear it barking.
Like that's something to be aware of.
And also, a lot of timespeople are hesitant to ask.
(16:21):
About their, if they see a pet,say, tied in a side yard, they're
hesitant to ask Hey, is that dog okay?
But you can always make somethingup like, oh, I was just checking.
I have a dog.
I wanted to see if maybe y'all wannado a play date or, I'm pretty bold.
Like I'll find my fence in themiddle of the night and just go look.
(16:43):
But I don't expect everybody to do that.
But yeah, neglect the food, the watervery little to no human interaction.
I just met a dog walker inone of the neighborhoods in
New Orleans, and she's great.
She seems to keep a really sharp eye out.
She said, oh, there's this dog.
It doesn't have anyaccess to food or water.
(17:04):
It's chained up.
It has very littleshelter I've never seen.
She, and I said, how wonderfulthat while you're walking your
dog, the dog's doing your job.
You're paying attention, to what andit turns out that she wouldn't end up
getting the little dog from the people.
So that was really a great story.
And I was, I couldn't believeshe's a wonderful person.
(17:24):
I was really, I said, if everybodywould do that on their walks,
Dixie (17:30):
Absolutely.
Veronica (17:32):
As far as like the neglect, obviously, dogs are in fighting are
neglected and we learned a lot about, whatto look for signs of dog fighting as well.
Dixie (17:44):
And what would those signs be?
Veronica (17:47):
One of the things that stuck in my mind that really stood
out is if you see a dog that's,possibly, maybe part pit bull.
Even with heavy chains, there's noreason for any animal, to be on a chain
that can tow up a 5,000 pound boat.
A heavy chain is, from what we learned,it's a sign for sure, and they do
(18:12):
that, so that the dogs are conditioned.
They build more muscle.
And honestly, anything that peoplethink, I know people think dog
fighting is horrific, but timesit by a million because the things
that we saw in this class were sobarbaric and these are the people that
do this are absolute monsters and.
(18:33):
Yeah, the people have no ideahow actually horrible it is.
And they do things like break the doga dog's front legs and throw it in the
pen, poke its eyes out so it's blindand throw it in the dog fight pen.
It is horrible.
And these are not peoplethat just dog fight.
These are people that rape andmurder and sell drugs to children.
(18:54):
I'm glad to see they'recracking down on it.
But one thing people can look for,especially in rural areas, is.
The dogs are barking, but they'repretty much hidden from sight.
This person has dogs, but you don'tsee them ever out in the open.
And if you can get a visual, another signis a dog with a heavy chain that's on
(19:14):
this circular or or worn down area of theground where it's just dirt because that
indicates that is the dog's whole life.
There's, just an area where the dogis existing is all worn down to dirt.
You pretty much know the dogdoesn't go anywhere else, ever.
That's his whole life.
(19:34):
And so that was another thing I found.
I found that very interesting.
I did not know that.
And then the scarring is something.
Didn't know.
What I learned is that blackhair on a dog, once they get a
wound, the hair grows back white.
Yeah, and you can see for themost part, scarring from a dog.
(19:57):
Fight's gonna be on the headand the front legs because
they're going into for the hill.
And the examples we saw were dogs,black dogs had these little white
kind of cuts all over, and it waswhite hair that had grown back because
they're, I guess it's their pigment.
The hair doesn't once thefollicle is damaged, it doesn't
(20:18):
grow back with the same pigment.
So I thought that was, I thoughtthat was pretty interesting.
I did not know that.
Dixie (20:26):
Yeah, I didn't know that either.
Veronica (20:30):
So it's just the dog fighting is definitely people that if you
think, oh, that could be dog fighting.
It probably is.
Because, and it's usually like Isaid, you don't see those dogs, you
see her barking, you know they'redogs, but you don't see them anywhere.
And it happens.
It's amazing.
It happens next door to perfectlynice, good citizens and they just don't
(20:52):
even realize it's happening next door.
And it, it is a billion dollar business.
Dixie (20:57):
So do you think it's that more people are just oblivious or
they just don't wanna accept thatit actually could be happening?
Veronica (21:06):
I think it's both.
And I also think that people have a hardtime with thinking that their judgment
was off, or people have a hard time.
being wrong if they'rewrong about something.
And I think that also people havea hard time with say there is
a dog fighter living next door.
That makes my neighborhoodin my home look like shit.
(21:29):
Excuse my language.
You know what I mean?
And I feel like they're hesitant inthat way as well because of how it
looks on, them and the neighborhood.
But I think people are justalso just not educated to.
how prevalent and how widespread
right dog
fighting has become.
Dixie (21:45):
And I think a lot of people don't trust their intuition.
If you think something is wrong, it'sbecause most likely something is wrong.
But I believe that goes back to thatwhole judgment thing, like you said,
because people don't wanna say somethingbecause, oh, what if I'm wrong?
But I find from my personalexperience, I like to follow my gut.
(22:06):
It, it usually doesn't fail me.
Veronica (22:07):
And
I agree, and I'm trying to get better inmy own personal life with that, because
my gut , it's never been wrong, but Istill, am working on trusting it because
it's, a scary thing because what ifyou're wrong or what if you make this
decision and it's comes back on you?
But really, the police are never going to.
be mad at you.
And people need to realizethat our elected officials
(22:29):
and our police work for us.
They're not the other way around.
Dixie (22:33):
When it comes to the fighting, is it more prevalent in rural areas,
city areas, or could it be both?
Veronica (22:41):
It can be both.
It is more prevalent in.
A lot of rural areas, but you can,there's few other houses well within site.
And then a lot of times in a cityenvironment, they'll have dogs,
not as many, but they'll have dogs.
And that's usually like a transporting,I didn't realize they transport dogs
across state lines constantly for fights.
(23:02):
So
oftentimes they'll go from arural area to like a holding home,
Dixie (23:06):
uhhuh,
Veronica (23:06):
sometimes often in a city area, and then they're taken from there across
state lines or to their next fight.
Dixie (23:14):
Yeah.
I know in a lot of the small ruralparishes in Louisiana don't even
have animal control, and some ofthem don't even have a shelter.
So that's why I was wondering,if it's more under the radar
if they do it in a rural area.
Veronica (23:28):
For sure.
And I think that, that brings me tolike, one of the training things in
a rural area that they use for dogsthat are being trained to fight up
is, they put either wildlife likea raccoon, but most often cats.
Or kittens and a little, okay.
They use them for dog fightingbait, and the dog will, let the
(23:49):
dog them chase the, they hang themfrom like a stick or a metal rod.
And once the dog has done enoughwork, they allow the dog to have the,
whatever they're baiting it with.
And I think people need to really.
Stop giving oh, it's all day long.
Free kittens.
Free, puppy free.
(24:09):
That's inviting a torturingsicko or a dog fighter.
You just can't do it.
And if you do it, you've got to,actually be proactive and check the vet
references and go to the home and askfor photos in the future because it's
just, it feeds the dog fighting industry,
to keep
doing this with the free animals.
Dixie (24:31):
You tell people though, but they don't wanna hear that.
There's situations where I've seenposts where they're giving away kittens
and I'll go in and monitor the post.
I cannot always take 'em in.
But if it looks like it's a diresituation and it looks like somebody
who may be doing fighting or somethinglike that, is commenting on that
post, I'll be like, Hey, I'm a rescue.
(24:51):
I'll take those kittens.
Veronica (24:53):
I love that you do that.
Yeah, I try to do that too.
If I say, I'm like, this personlooks dangerous, I'll take it.
Yeah.
I'll go,
Dixie (25:01):
I'll go look on the profiles and I hate to say that 'cause I
don't want people to go put theirprofiles private now, but yeah, no,
I'll go look and see and you can gothrough some of those photos and tell
Veronica (25:12):
just like I love that you do
that.
Dixie (25:13):
Yeah.
Just like I have some groups thatI run and I've had breeders try
to go push animals in my groupsfor rehoming, and I'm like, yeah,
this looks like a breeder to me.
So they end up gettingbanned from the group.
Veronica (25:25):
I love it.
So I do look at people's profilestoo, and if I see it, I'm like, please
don't give this person a kitten.
All they have is pictures of pit bulls.
And I hate to make that judgmentand I apologize to them.
If I've made it from, ifI'm wrong, then I apologize.
But if it saves one animal, I don't reallycare what people think of me or if I
(25:45):
hurt somebody's feelings, to be honest.
Dixie (25:47):
I understand that for sure.
Veronica (25:50):
I'm not worried with humans' feelings because they have a voice
and they're able to make choices.
All I care about is theanimals, quite frankly.
Dixie (25:58):
Yep, I understand that.
, When you see these signs, shouldyou be getting the authorities
involved, or who should you call?
Veronica (26:06):
They were clear with us that one, one of these signs, if it's something
like, the dog looks a little thin.
You have to use yourjudgment one of those times.
If the dog looks a little thin and it'sgot a tarp for a shelter or it's, the dog
looks a little thin and there's multipleother dogs on the property, or you can
(26:27):
hear multiple other dogs on the property.
Somebody that's a neighbor,let's say, who's in a rural area,
you can hear the dogs barking.
You never see them out in the open.
The neighbor is not very neighborly.
Mostly keeps to themselves.
Sometimes maybe has on a, anygiven night, multiple cars.
There you just, you see the signsand then you call the police.
(26:50):
You can call the non-emergencynumber or, 'cause a lot of people,
like you said, don't have animalcontrol or shelters to call.
So in that instance, they wouldcall the police because, and
like I said, dog fighting.
They're starting to crack down all over.
They're getting very angry about it.
Finally, and neglect I was happyto say that see multiple rural
(27:14):
sheriffs, sheriff's officesrepresented at the certification.
Lots of police from different parishesin Louisiana that don't have shelters.
So they had sent some of theirpolice officers to get training.
So I really believe it's startingto turn around and you just call the
(27:35):
police, just tell them what they saw.
It's called the HumaneSociety of Louisiana.
If you're not getting any reaction,because Jeff Dorson is amazing and
he's really, he's got connectionsall over the state and he's very
good at getting something done.
If he gets a complaint, he'll sendone of us to follow up with it.
(27:56):
There was recently a guy in Monroe.
He didn't have anyone to call as far asanimal control, so he called the Humane
Society of Louisiana, and it was aboutsome sheep that were in a field and it was
dirt field and one of a baby one was dead.
It had been starved to death.
And he said, I didn't really know.
I didn't really wanna getinvolved, that's just not right.
(28:18):
And he said, thank you guysso much for following up and.
Turns out, they were being starved.
Somebody had rented the land andjust disappeared and left these
animals just to starve to death.
Dixie (28:29):
Oh, wow.
Veronica (28:29):
And I
said, sir, we're sograteful when people call.
I said, thank you so much.
He said they were in a dirt field.
That was, that gentleman sign: a dirt field and then he said he (28:36):
undefined
came, he drove by again two weekslater and there was the dead baby
sheep in the middle of the field.
And he said, I just feel terrible.
I waited that long becauseobviously a dirt field doesn't
have any food for the animals.
He's like, I should have calleda long time ago right now.
Dixie (28:55):
Who taught the class
Veronica (28:57):
that was a trainer from the Humane World for Animals the
Humane Society of the United States.
She was great.
She's been an investigator for years,I believe, and then of course I went, I
love to like research, so I looked herup and I saw multiple YouTube videos.
She had actually been an animalcontrol officer and now was
(29:20):
a trainer in the program.
And she was reallyinformative and wonderful.
I just really she gave usdifferent cases to look at.
For instance, like one had I.
I think that, it's rampantwhere people move out of their
homes and leave their pets in anabandoned house to starve to death.
And she just really kept reiteratinghow important it is as investigators
(29:44):
to be thorough with our reports.
A dog was left to starveto death in a mobile home.
And she, that time they gotthere, the dog was liquified, but.
She said, we were so thorough.
We took video of absolutely everything,and they found the dog's teeth and
the, it's a horrible story, the teethand the walls, because the dog was so
(30:07):
panicked as it was starving to death.
And
the dog's nails were worn down tonubs from scratching to try to fight
its way out of the house as it wasstarving to death, which is the worst.
Most painful death.
And she said they were able to prosecutebecause of how thorough they were
and getting samples of the wood fromthe wall and then that matched the,
(30:29):
under the nails and they found like,
I said, his, the teeth and nail bitsin the wall and it was just horrible.
But she was trying to make thepoint that every little thing counts
when you are doing investigations.
Dixie (30:44):
I believe I've actually heard about that case too.
I don't know if I saw a video or somethingabout it, but that sounds very familiar.
Veronica (30:52):
I was openly crying.
I was like, okay, I thinkI'm gonna go to the bathroom.
Take a break.
It was tough, but like, it'shard to see and she said, I don't
like to show a lot of graphicvideos and these trainings, but.
Some of them I feel are necessary.
And I feel, I wish I couldshow the whole world.
I wish I could sit the whole world downand make them watch those kind of things.
'cause I think then maybesomething will click
(31:14):
right in their
brains.
Dixie (31:16):
And unfortunately that seems to be a thing when people move out, they
just will leave their pets inside.
Veronica (31:23):
Yeah.
It's just bizarre.
And I mean that I just feel likethe big thing, that will maybe stop
that is just, harsher penalties.
I feel like it definitelyshould be mandatory jail time.
These animals feel the sameemotions as human beings.
I don't understand why the jailtime is different for animal abuse.
Dixie (31:45):
Yeah.
And they just seem to just get likea slap on the wrist most of the time.
Veronica (31:49):
And then, I, the FBI themselves say that 81% of people
that abuse or neglect animals.
81% of them will go on to commit a crime.
Often the next crime is against a child.
And then it goes to domestic violence andthen it goes to bigger ones like murder.
And I just feel like why?
I'm nobody.
I'm not trained in any kinda legislation,but it seems to me like it's law 1 0
(32:14):
1 to cut the problem off at the knees.
Like why wouldn't they stop it?
Animal abuse with a harsherpenalty so that they can't go on
to commit crimes against people..
I just feel like that's themost simple way to have crime
go down in cities, period.
Cut the problem off at the kneesbefore it gets any worse, and I
don't get why that's not happening.
Dixie (32:36):
Yeah, I don't either because you always hear that statistic.
But then it's never taken seriously.
So I don't know.
Veronica (32:47):
I think too, if people, were more vocal about, It there's
a great page on Facebook.
. It's Citizens AgainstAnimal Abuse and Neglect.
It is awful.
I get all my news from there everymorning when I wake up on animal
abuse and the admin of that pageprovides a link that you can find
your legislator and it gives you theiremail, their contact email and stuff.
(33:10):
And I think it's very helpful 'causeI think the more noise that's made,
the more they're gonna pay attention.
So I really encourage, likeI said, people to contact.
Legislators and just one sentence, evenlike harsher sentences for animal abuse,
because whatever these people are loud,the most loud about is what's what
(33:30):
they're gonna put on their priority list.
Dixie (33:33):
The registry that you're working on, what are your plans with that?
And have you started puttingthis registry together yet?
Veronica (33:41):
Yes.
One of my weaknesses, isany kind of, administrative,
like spreadsheets and such.
So what I started doingis just collecting data.
I take screenshots and then record thenames of each person that's, convicted.
And then I went to charge.
And I'm starting it just in Louisiana.
But I'm hoping, that it's gonna be, Ihave a friend that says Rescue in Florida.
(34:07):
She's very involved.
So we're back and forth talking about,so it can be shared between states.
And so I've, now, I've got the data.
Basically all I need next is for it to bein the full right format, and a shareable
kind of website where people can log on.
And of course it has to be I'mjust still struggling with how
(34:28):
to make sure that it's not justsomebody claiming there was abuse.
You see what I'm saying?
Like, 'cause I don't wanna do itjust for people that are convicted
'cause so few get convicted,
right?
So that's where I'm struggling, it'sjust how do you make sure it's not,
somebody just being mad at someone else.
Oh hey, they abuse theirdog, put 'em on the registry.
(34:50):
That's something that I'm gonna lookto people that know a little more than
me about these things that hopefullyI can get some advice on, how to
prevent that and make it, a completelylegitimate and reliable source.
Dixie (35:05):
So what kind of support or collaboration do you think would
be the most helpful in bringingthese registry ideas to fruition?
Veronica (35:14):
I think, first to, just to get the registry created.
If there's anybody out there that'sgood with Excel spreadsheets and I'm
willing to put money into it and I haveto hire help, of course there's a limit
to that, and I I can't pay severalhundred dollars an hour to anybody,
but, I think just the basic format, thebasic skeleton of the actual website.
(35:37):
The format of how you would put in,the names of people and what city.
And I've gotten a lot of helpwith that from Chat, GPT.
But there's only so much he can do for me.
And then at once it's created I'm going tomarket it to rescues and animal shelters.
And then what I want is crimestoppers to step up and.
(36:00):
Take a more active role and people youcan call Crime Stoppers now to report
animal abuse, but I want them morevisible and more actively involved.
Lee County and Florida isdoing an incredible job.
They have an animal abuse taskforce, they have a registry.
Crime Stoppers is very visible.
They put up billboards and I'm tryingto model the program after them.
Dixie (36:26):
Okay.
Veronica (36:26):
It's a lot.
Dixie (36:27):
Yeah.
I didn't know anything about that.
. Veronica (36:29):
It's Lee County in Florida.
It's right around Sarasota, Florida.
And they have a whole animal cruelty task.
Force.
And their own page.
The sheriff started andthey've been really nice.
I said is I'm trying to dothe same thing and they were.
Said, email us.
So I did, and they've beenvery nice and helpful about it.
And so that's one state that Icould share the registry with.
Dixie (36:50):
So that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At least it's one step closer, right?
Veronica (36:53):
Yeah, I'll get there.
Dixie (36:56):
It's, it sounds like a wonderful idea
Veronica (36:59):
thank
you.
I, yeah, I think it's necessary,don't you think, would we need that?
Dixie (37:04):
Yeah.
I think it would be somethingthat would be needed.
I think it's a really good idea
Veronica (37:10):
because I just asked, how do we know that these people that also
people surrendering for no good reason.
They move to a new apartmentand they decide to get another
pet and they just can do it.
That's not right.
And , I just feel like there'sgotta be more accountability when
you surrender a pet for, 'causeyou don't have time, quote unquote.
You need to be doing morethan signing a paper and I've.
(37:31):
Called out the SPCA for that, and I said,you need to at least have them volunteer
a day, make them watch a film, have, somekind of educational awareness brought to
them when they surrender so that they justdon't think it's, and oh, no big deal.
Dixie (37:48):
And I believe there are cases when people need to surrender,
medical issues, things of that nature.
I understand that.
But like you said, for someof these things where it's
just like, oh, we're moving.
Let's go get rid of the dog.
Let's go surrender the dog.
Or, I'm having a baby.
Let's go get rid of the cat.
And I think that definitelyis a part of the problem.
(38:09):
I, I do wish people understood what wentinto it when they do surrender an animal.
And in a lot of the times it'snot so much with the dogs.
It does happen.
But like with adult cats, theygrieve themselves to death.
They'll stop eating.
Veronica (38:25):
I know it's horrible.
I love cats are, like theforefront of my heart.
I try to help as many aspossible and people just don't
understand how bonded cats get.
And there's been some little researchdone on cats so I can't even imagine.
I think probably 50 years from nowpeople are gonna find out the cats.
Are like these deeply feeling, highlyintellectual, beings that we have
(38:49):
discounted for so long, and they do.
They grieve, they stop eating, theystart having behavior issues using
the bathroom outside the litter box.
It's just very sad becausecats do not do well in new
environments, a lot of the time.
Dixie (39:05):
What message would you like to share with our listeners who are
passionate about helping animals?
Veronica (39:12):
I would say please get involved because the problem is
so overblown now that it's gonnatake a lot more than us in rescue.
To make a difference.
We need every single person who youknow, cares about animals or thinks that
it's sad when they see an animal abuse.
(39:32):
Write a letter, write an email,keep the same email, copy
and paste it if you need to.
I often put emails that I send onlineand on social media, and they can
copy and paste that or make a calland just say, I'd like to leave
a message for mayor so and okay.
What's the message?
We need stricter penaltiesfor animal abuse.
And I voted for him and Iexpect to see it happen.
(39:56):
It's very simple.
They work for us, put 'em to work.
We need help.
Dixie (40:02):
Definitely.
Thank you for sharing allthat information with me.
It was very informative.
Some things definitely that I didn't know.
So I'm so glad that you were ableto come on the show with me today.
Veronica (40:15):
Thank you Dixie.
I'm so excited that you have this show.
I love it.
I always listen to it.
Dixie (40:21):
Oh great.
Veronica (40:21):
So thank you so much for doing all this hard work because I
know it's not easy and thank you forbeing, bringing awareness, to people.
Dixie (40:27):
Sure.
If you know anybody else that wantsto be on the show, please let me know.
Veronica (40:31):
I will.
Thank you so much for having me.
Dixie (40:34):
Alright, you're welcome.
It was good talking to you.
And that's all the time wehave for today's episode.
If you are in animal rescue, or ifyou know someone that has a story that
should be told, please contact us.
We would love to haveyou or them on the show
. Thanks for listening, and pleasejoin us next week as we continue to
(40:54):
explore the world of animal rescue.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.