In our journey through life, we all seek solace, peace, and understanding, but oftentimes we overlook a place we can find these. Today's enriching episode takes us on an exploration of the often-untapped sources of tranquility and wisdom found in nature and animals. We weave through my personal stories and those of our guest, healer, counselor, and mentor, Kari Lesick.
Kari reveals a fascinating world where humans and animals communicate, sharing her diverse experiences from bonding with orangutans and elephants in Southeast Asia to practicing various healing modalities like body talk and hakomi. She shares how she's found comfort in nature during turbulent times, emphasizing the importance of creating moments to connect with nature's elements either physically or intuitively. We also discuss the importance of grounding ourselves through sensory exploration, using our imagination to connect with nature, and the role of sensory experiences in coping with loss, particularly the loss of a beloved animal companion.
As you listen, remember to slow down. Be present. Look for ways to connect with the natural world in your daily life. Our hope is that this conversation inspires you to see the beauty and interconnectedness of all life forms.
For more information about Kari, visit her website at https://www.karilesick.com.
You can also find her on Instagram @karilesick.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Barbara (00:09):
Hi there and welcome.
You're listening to Animals andUs voices of a new paradigm.
Avantika (00:17):
My name is Avantika and I'm a researcher exploring
animal consciousness,environmental sustainability and
planetary health.
I want to help bring animalperspectives to the table and
transform our relationship withthe natural world, and I'm
Barbara.
Barbara (00:32):
I'm an animal communicator and retired
veterinarian.
My true passion is exploringthe hearts and souls of animals
and helping people come to amuch deeper understanding of who
the animals truly are at theircore.
Avantika (00:48):
This podcast is for anyone who loves animals and
nature and has an interest intheir own personal and spiritual
development.
We'll bring you powerfulconversations with fascinating
people about animal and nature,sentience, consciousness and
communication.
Barbara (01:05):
Thank you so much for joining us on this journey of
love, respect, understanding andcare for the fellow beings who
share our beautiful Mother Earthwith us.
Avantika (01:20):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Animals and
Us voices of a new paradigm.
I'm so excited to introduce youall to our guest for today and
a really dear friend of mine,carrie Lesick.
Carrie, I met her for the firsttime last year I can't believe
that it was just a year ago inKelowna, british Columbia, which
(01:42):
is in Western Canada.
Kelowna is a city nestled in avalley surrounded by mountains,
by the water, and I want tomention this because Carrie was
my guide and my mentor as Imoved into this beautiful place
and started to explore it, and Iknew immediately that Carrie
was so deeply connected to theland and all the beings that
(02:05):
inhabit it.
Carrie has this way of livingin deep connection,
communication and gratitude forall the species, whether it be
companion animals, the wildlife,the trees, the plants, the
water, the rocks, everythingthat surrounds us.
She's a person of many gifts,talents and passions who has a
(02:29):
fascinating history, so let'ssee if we can capture a little
snapshot of her background andthese various gifts.
Carrie works with humans andanimals on many different levels
, doing integrative healing,counseling and mentoring, while
balancing their physical,emotional, environmental and
(02:50):
spiritual needs.
She uses a number of differentmodalities, which I think we'll
hear more about today.
She's trained in body talk,hakomi.
She's also an interspeciescommunicator.
She has spent a lot of timewith dogs, and I think we'll
hear more about that today aswell.
She's also traveled quite a bitand has communicated with
(03:11):
orangutans and elephants inSoutheast Asia, and she spends
if there's one thing I can tellyou about her, she spends a lot
of time on the land as well,outside.
So the list of cool thingsabout her just goes on and on,
and we're excited to dive intosome of those today.
Barbara and I have both had thepleasure and honor of getting to
(03:32):
know you, carrie, over the pastyear or so, and I think it's
just one of those relationshipswhere we feel like we've known
each other forever.
My husband, too, has had thepleasure of getting to know you,
carrie, and I asked him thismorning to give me three words
to describe you.
So he said charismatic, lovingand spiritual, which I thought
(03:54):
was pretty bang on.
I was like, yeah, I 100% agree,carrie.
I feel like you're someone whohelps people tune into the
guidance that is there for themand available to them.
Every moment of the day, youshow us how life is, always
speaking to us and communicatingwith us through all sacred and
sentient beings, and we're sohappy that we could finally have
(04:17):
this conversation.
So thank you so much for beinghere and welcome.
Kari (04:22):
Thank you, avantika.
I also want to thank to Vinderfor his three words and Barbara,
it is always a delight to bewith the two of you.
There are very few people inthe world that when we get
together, we can go so manydifferent directions and so many
(04:45):
different beings, seen andunseen, can show up in our
conversations.
So, yeah, thank you for havingme here today.
I'm excited.
It's a long time in the workfor this to come together.
One thing I would like to dobefore I start is you know, I
(05:06):
met Avantika a year ago and wewere on the Silk Territory and
I'm grateful to the people ofthat nation and time and
memorial, the ceremonies and theways that they've honored and
held those lands in such highregard and the relationship with
(05:29):
the four legged in the plantkingdom.
And I also want to share todaythat I'm in a different location
, that I'm on Treaty SixTerritory, which is colonially
known as Edmonton.
I've had the immense gift ofthe past week of creating
(05:55):
relationship with the land,coming here and introducing
myself to the trees and thegrasses and slowing down to
really just connect with theroots of the nations that are
here the Cree and the Blackfootand Nakoda and the Denny and the
(06:18):
Mady people, also from Region 4.
I know that there are manyother nations that are here as
well, and I really am humbled bythe opportunity to connect with
, being seen and unseen here too.
Barbara (06:33):
Thank you, terri, that was so beautiful and I've loved
all of our conversations and I'mso inspired by you and your
connection with the land and theNative peoples.
I live in the US and you bothin Canada.
It makes me want to move toCanada, but it's been really,
(06:58):
really, really wonderful gettingto know you and we've had some
tremendous conversations and nowwe get to do it on the podcast.
So I'm very excited.
And, carrie, briefly, what isthe work you do?
What is your overridingintention or purpose or goal in
(07:21):
the work you do and what got youthere?
What's a little bit of yourpersonal story?
Kari (07:28):
That's a big question.
The overriding intention isthat your phrasing.
Is that your words?
Barbara (07:40):
Yeah, Just what calls you, what kind of work are you
actually doing and why?
I know it's a big question.
Kari (07:49):
It is a big question.
What calls me is beingconnected, feeling a sense of
connection, a sense of unity,and for many reasons, my 10,000
(08:10):
hours has been on the land andwith the land.
Some of that has been alone.
A lot of that has been with thedogs.
The dogs have been incrediblementors for me in understanding
communication and understandingrelationships and understanding
(08:32):
connection.
And the beautiful thing arounddogs is, you know, I think, when
we ask one another, how are youdoing today?
And oftentimes the answer thatyou're going to get is well, I'm
fine, even if we're not fine,we're just so conditioned and
programmed.
(08:52):
The dogs have always shown methe truth and they've always
mirrored, as people talk, what'sgoing on within their
relationships, theirrelationship to self, their
relationship to others.
So it really has been a studyof the journey into the heart,
(09:15):
into communication, into theways that communication gets
blocked or stuck.
You know, intuitivecommunication can be with all
form and all being.
So it can be with animals, itcan also trees and rocks and my
(09:39):
liver or my gallbladder, andthere's not really any
separation.
So sometimes, as people aregoing through their own
challenges and blockages andbarriers in life, part of that
intuitive communication is justslowing down and really being
(10:02):
able to connect into what partof the body is telling you or
wants to say.
So my passion is listening, iswatching and witnessing, is
being an advocate for beingsthat don't necessarily have an
(10:24):
equal voice at the table.
I think sometimes we makedecisions around animals or
plants or the land withoutconsulting those beings, and
also part of a big part of mypassion is with the human animal
and the ways that we struggleuniquely.
(10:48):
You know, we have thisconsciousness, this greater
being that we call the mind,which is often our greatest
hindrance, and so I really oneof my passions is taking people
and just being on the land withthem and allowing the laws of
(11:11):
nature, the elements, to bringtheir teachings and their
lessons.
The one thing I know for sure isthe one thing that I can trust
is the laws of nature or truth.
Some of the man-made laws, someof the laws that I make up, can
get me into a lot of trouble.
(11:31):
So the most aligned andbalanced, I feel, is when I'm on
the land and quiet and justlistening and watching the magic
show up.
I appreciate that when I'm onthe land with someone else, that
(11:56):
we get transported back into astate of childlike curiosity,
and so, with that awe andwonderment, there's often beings
or messengers that will show upin the most unexpected ways, at
(12:16):
the most unexpected times andsomehow, when we're in resonance
and together, our blinders comeoff.
And so what I mean by that is wecould walk the same trail and
be stuck in our own heads, orhave had something come up in
(12:38):
the morning that has us swirlingor angry, and we could walk by
that same eagle or deer orsymbol on a tree and not even
notice it.
So, when we can stop, pause andslow down and come into
resonance and the harmony withnature, now those messengers, as
(13:01):
they show up, they bring giftsfor us, they bring information,
pockets of information, theybring hope, they bring messages,
and the biggest thing that I'venoticed is they bring an
invitation back into self, backinto being embodied, back to
(13:25):
finding safety and trust withineach of us.
It's kind of a long and broadand detailed answer.
Barbara (13:42):
Perfect, it's perfect and it was beautiful, really
beautiful.
I think it's so important thatwe pay attention to these things
and that we communicate withnature and ourselves.
And that brings me to aquestion about what you're doing
now, which is Hakomi right.
Isn't that a system of tuninginto the body, mind, spirit?
Kari (14:08):
It really is.
So, hakomi, you're journeying,exploring into the body to look
at some of our core wounds ortraumas, the things that have
happened to us in life, andthere's ways those are living
(14:35):
within us and they hold us back.
They hold us back from living alife that we want to lead and I
really enjoy.
Hakomi is a lot like walkingout on the land with someone,
(14:56):
and how they're similar is weall have story and we start off
on this journey together wherein a Hakomi session, someone
steps sharing their story, thestory of how they're feeling,
things that have happened, andwithin that story, we get to
(15:18):
stop and pause for a minute andthen we get to notice, we get to
invite in the body and notice.
Where does that story live inthe body?
We notice it might be asensation of how it feels, or a
(15:41):
color or a shape or a story mayhave words to it.
And when we can really slowdown and witness what the body
is holding and we can get reallycurious about that and some of
(16:02):
these barriers, some of theseways that we carry limitations
into the world and we just holdback from having a vibrant life
where we can be consumed orafraid, somehow there's
(16:24):
something that shifts andchanges within us.
Part of the body starts toloosen off the ways that we've
been holding or guarding orarmoring or carrying ourselves.
If we can have someone takethat over with us and hold it
with us and we can relax into itfor a moment, there's really
(16:48):
important things that come out.
So it's really a journey ofbeing embodied and also sharing
and witnessing story.
Barbara (17:02):
I love that.
It sounds really wonderful.
And, speaking of story, you'vegot your own little story going
on and what I'm really curiousabout and excited about is that
you have traveled and you haveworked with orangutans and
(17:24):
taught why you were over in Asia.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that experience was
like?
What were you doing and why,and what was it like to be with
those orangutans in the wild?
Kari (17:44):
How long do we have?
Do we get to have a couplehours?
Barbara (17:47):
Yes, briefly briefly, karen.
Kari (17:53):
You know that part of my life was a very exciting time,
and it was a journey where Ifelt like I was in a Harry
Potter movie, where we would seethings and experience things
(18:14):
that you couldn't reallyquantify, that the human mind
couldn't make sense of, and itwas magical.
It was magical to be with theorangutan and I think the
journey of getting to theorangutan was one of stillness,
(18:43):
patience and also a tenacity.
I had an amazing mentor at thetime, a woman named Lucia Jacob,
and one of the things that Ilove about Lucia is she's larger
than life and the things thatthe average person would think
(19:05):
wasn't possible or wasn't doable, she would always be okay yes,
why not, let's do it.
And it was from a communicationthat she had.
We had one of the very firstworkshops that she had that we
were doing together as a group,called Linking Awareness, was in
(19:28):
the Singapore Zoo for thepractical day and there was an
orangutan there named Charlie,and when she had connected in
and the group of us was sittingaround observing the session he
was sharing about, you need togo find the woman that knows
(19:49):
about the orangutan and that shewas in Borneo, in Kelamantan,
and so to be able to go and findthis person.
And so we went on this journeyto meet and find someone named
Brute Geldikos.
And so the incredible part ofthis story was that Jane Goodall
(20:15):
, diane Fossey and BruteGeldikos all had their own
unique journeys with primatesand, to make a very long,
convoluted story short, it was abit of a treasure hunt.
(20:36):
There was a lot of time ofsitting and waiting and just
being patient, waiting for thedoor to open to meet Barute, and
so just in that act alone, Ithink it really taught the
(21:02):
importance of stillness, theimportance of rights of passage,
that sometimes all the time,it's really important to show up
when we're guided, even if itseems really crazy and we can't
(21:22):
understand why we're being toldto go sit at this place and wait
.
And so when we finally did meether, it opened up a multi-year
project of being able to look atanimal communication and to go
into the jungles and to justspend time with the orangutan.
(21:50):
One of the things I can share asa bit of a personal story was
the orangutan.
I had this experience one daywhen we were taking a group of
little juveniles out into thislittle playstation where they
(22:16):
got to just be in the jungle andexplore.
These little orangutans wouldcome like little kids and wrap
themselves around you.
We walked together out intothis area and I remember holding
one of the little orangutansand we were heart to heart and I
(22:41):
could just feel the heartbeatof this amazing being and
somehow, all of the years of myconditioning, my protection, my
guarding, the way I armored myown heart, it just fell away.
(23:07):
It fell away and it was a veryemotional moment for me Because
somehow in that moment there wasa safety of being witnessed by
another being other than humanthat could touch and see me to
(23:33):
the core of my humanness, thathad no expectations, that didn't
have me entombed in a frame ofwho they thought I was, that
somehow saw me in my wholeness,as I saw this being in their
(23:55):
wholeness and their light, andthe moment was magical.
It was a life-altering momentand some of the time that we
spent on the land and the jungleit was as if the orangutan were
(24:16):
just like come here.
I want to show you somethingand I remember one of the very
first pictures or the firstimages I took was of this
orangutan sitting on a boardwalkand it had its hand down on the
side of the boardwalk and theimage was just of the hand and
(24:41):
there was something so strongand powerful and gentle and I'll
often look at that imagebecause within the image is just
such, there's an energy thatyou can't even put into words,
that deeply and profoundlychanges you as you engage and
(25:07):
you dance with that image.
Something within yourself-structure, something within
my beingness, changed, and so Inoticed that the time in the
jungle, the time with theorangutan, really opened up my
(25:28):
heart, my capacity to love, mycapacity to be curious and
playful and probably one of themost important things is it
opened up my creativity.
It opened up a love affair.
It opened up a love affair withthe land.
(25:48):
It opened up a love affairwithin myself where I could take
the creativity of the feminineand put that into this love
affair in a way where it waspoetic, it was artistic, it was
(26:08):
dynamic and it allowed me toreally step into being a very
different person than who I wasseen to be in my family system
or in the third-dimensionalworld.
I think that one of thebeautiful things about animals
(26:37):
is that animals help push us outof having type A personalities
where we have structure andagendas and schedules and time
frames and if we can drop thatyou know the orangutan from a
practical perspective justbecause you're at a feeding
(26:58):
station waiting for them to comedoesn't mean that they're going
to show up.
And so there's this level ofpatience and beingness, and if
you could drop yourself weplayed a lot with, I played a
lot with if I could drop myselfinto that place of a still point
(27:19):
within, if I could connectwithin my own body and slow down
, if I could sit in my heart andsend out an invitation, would
(27:39):
they show up differently thanhow we're conditioned, as you
know quote unquote when we comein as tourists, where there's a
busyness and we walk in and anexpectation that they're going
to animals, are going toentertain, and they're going to
show up and be there, and soit's a very different energy
(28:01):
field, it's a differentconsciousness, it's a different
invitation.
And oftentimes, when we couldcome in either individually or
collectively and hold that space, then guess who would show up.
Does that answer put you aquestion?
Barbara (28:26):
Yes, I could feel it, carrie, it's like I was there
with you.
I got really emotional for awhile when you were with that
baby, with the orangutan, andyou know, I think something we
have in common is that deep loveof wild animals and wildlife
and nature.
And I've had experiences withwild animals.
(28:48):
The close personal ones havemostly been in captivity, but
still it's.
There's something so specialabout being with an animal like
that and somehow winning theirtrust and in sharing just that
(29:09):
wild, divine, natural essence ofwho we all are.
And you know what I'm curiousabout, as you talked about that,
it stimulated your creativityand I'm wondering how that
happened.
What's that about?
Kari (29:31):
You know, I that's a really great question and, as I
feel that question in my bodywhen you ask it would I keep
hearing rippling in thebackground Was the words love
affair, love affair, love affair.
And so when I think of humanrelationships and when I think
(29:57):
of beloved and when I think ofwhat is it like when we fall in
love with someone, another beingand a different part of us gets
to show up.
You know there's this euphoriaalmost, or that person that you
(30:18):
know, for a moment in time, wehave a snapshot in time where
that person that we dreamt ofbeing or these things that we
dreamt of in life seemedpossible in that newness of
relationship.
And I really feel like part ofit was the busyness of my life.
(30:39):
Once you come from the city andyou go into the jungle, you
know, barbara, what it's like tobe with the wild ones, or be on
the land when you slow down.
I think part of it was anactivation from being on the
land.
You know Indonesia is a countryof love, people that are some
(31:07):
of the most loving people andradiant loving energy is.
My experience has been inIndonesia and so I think that
there are places on the land onthis planet that also hold
different resonance, almostdifferent frequencies and
(31:28):
different downloads, and I feltpart of myself wake up, and so
it was as if somewhere in time,a memorial.
I had been on those landsbefore in another form and you
know, I make up a story thatperhaps there was something I
(31:49):
left behind or something thatwas left behind for me, and I
feel sometimes, when I'm reallycalled to journey to a place, I
get really curious about oh,where is the gift?
What have I come back toremember, what have I come back
to to pick up?
You know, what have I come backto collect?
(32:11):
And I really think that thattime of creativity it was coming
back to embody that, it wascoming back to, to have an
intimacy with the land, with theorangutan, with the jungle, and
open up that, that intimacywithin myself.
(32:31):
I know, with other people thatyou've had on the podcast that
perhaps you've talked aboutchakras and chakras and animals
and in humans.
I know that being on that landhad a big effect on some of
(32:54):
those, those energy centers inmy own body and activating that
energy.
I think, being in the junglealso, I dropped the bravado of
(33:14):
being an adult, and an adultthat knew things and I got back
to going, or I got to go backinto being a child again and
just being curious and playfuland so that you know allowed me
to walk through the swamp in mybare feet and feel the mud in my
(33:36):
toes, to watch some of thedifferent plants and you know
how they could catch a fly orcatch another insect.
There was just a real way ofigniting this childlike passion
about relating to the land andbeing alive.
(33:59):
So I think that there's a lotof complex answers around
creativity and what that wasabout, and some easy answers
around what it was about.
Barbara (34:19):
Thank you, and you know you just triggered something
for me.
First, I bet you the orangutanswere part of that playfulness
and creativity, because they,you know, when I've been around
them it's more in captivesituations, but the little ones,
oh my God, they're so playfuland adorable.
(34:39):
But also, you reminded me whenwe talked about creativity.
I hadn't really considered thisbefore, but because I've been
in some wild places with wildanimals and because I've had
personal relationships with somequote wild animals in captivity
, I think it's awakenedsomething in me too, that
(35:01):
creative spark, and I've beennoticing lately that I just all
I really want to do is write,and my writing is with the
animals, you know, connectingwith them, and I think it has
awakened more creativity in metoo, just those interactions.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
(35:24):
It's very, very, very wonderful.
And your experience, oh my God,I could listen all day and just
go there with you.
So thank you.
Kari (35:35):
Thanks, barbara.
You know I was thinking aboutyou this morning as I was
getting ready to come online andrecord with you today.
I was just sitting inmeditation and going back to a
time with the orangutan and alsothe elephants, and I was
thinking about you, barbara,when it came to the elephants
(35:56):
and I know that they are theelephant kingdom is a deep
passion and love of yours and Iwas thinking about you know a
couple of things about theelephants.
One was being drawn to, I wasinfatuated with their feet and
(36:18):
watching how their feet wouldmove and how such a grandiose
being could be so quiet and sogentle on the land.
And then the other thing thatwas intoxicating for me, being
around the elephants, is not thetrumpeting that they would do,
(36:39):
but that rumble of the sinuspassage.
And so when they would do that,there was something in me where
I would just close my eyes, andit was, I would just.
It was like ecstasy and I couldalmost feel my own cranial
bones and my own brain justmoving to that rumble.
(37:00):
And as I was hearing you talkabout your journey, barbara,
with creativity, I was like huh,I wonder if being around the
elephants, with that, thattransmission, that energy field
and just noticing within myselfhow I had that, how I felt that
(37:24):
in my own body.
If part of that energy shakesup the head and the places that
we hold really rigid and thethought patterns of how I think
or we think we should movethrough life, if somehow that
gets shaken up and that's alsopart of what opens the channel
(37:46):
to come into the heart and intothat, the womb of creativity,
and connecting the heart and thewomb of creativity, and I'd be
really curious you know for youhow that creativity has been
enhanced by your time around theelephants?
Barbara (38:07):
Wow, that's so interesting and I'm not going to
take up this whole podcasttalking about me and the
elephants.
But you know, to me when theelephants do that low rumble,
it's like a cat purring kind ofyou know.
They're just so calm andbeautiful and peaceful.
(38:27):
I don't know about it affectingmy head when I'm sitting in my
house writing to the elephants,but being in their presence is
and Avantika has been there withme too in Africa there's
something just so it'sindescribable.
When you're in the presence ofthose guys in their own natural
(38:51):
habitat, it's very, very, veryspecial.
So thank you for all that,carrie, and I'm going to turn it
over to Avantika.
Avantika (39:04):
Yeah, carrie, I was going to say I really hope one
day that you write a book,because listening to you speak
is like listening to poetry.
Honestly, you have a way oftransporting us with your words
and I really feel like you havea way of embodying what you are
speaking, you know, and by howyou speak it and what words you
(39:28):
choose.
So I just wanted to say thankyou for sharing that with us and
our audience and we can finallyshare your brilliance with our
audience as you talk about yourexperiences, and I want to talk
about, you know, something thatI went through this year.
(39:50):
It was a rough year for me, youknow, gone through some hard
times this year, earlier in theyear, and, carrie, as you know,
you had a really important roleto play in my journey and I
still think you do.
But during that time you werelike an anchor for me and I look
back and I feel reallyfortunate and I have the sense
(40:13):
of knowing that you know we hadto be physically together during
that time.
You helped me.
You helped to show me that Icould feel safe and comforted by
and held with love by the land,by the trees, by the water, by,
(40:34):
you know physically, comingwith me, taking me onto the land
and probably doing a lot of thework that you described at the
beginning, that you do withpeople, but I really felt like I
could take a deep breath andsurrender and really let go and
(40:57):
surrender to the laws of nature,which, as you said, represent
the truth.
So I just first of all, youknow, want to acknowledge that
and thank you for all that I canall the things that I can't
even put into words that you didto hold my hand and guide me
through that.
(41:18):
It was like a live experience ofwhat you.
But I want to ask you foranyone who's listening who might
be going through a really hardtime or in the future, if they
come across something in there,really in a place of struggle,
do you have any words for us onhow we can embody some of what
(41:44):
you've said and really turn tonature, turn to those laws of
nature, turn to the beings thatare around us, whether it be our
companion animals or beingoutside, or even connecting
intuitively with other beingsthat we're not physically
present with?
Do you have anything that youcould share with them about how
(42:09):
to gently navigate through atough time?
Kari (42:17):
Thank you for that question and before I give the
answer to that question, Ireally want to acknowledge your
vulnerability with even namingwhat you were going through or
the tough time that you werehaving, and what a gift it was
(42:43):
to just be on the land with youand just walk and just witness.
To answer your question.
In the struggles of life, in myjourney of life and some of the
moments I've had to meet, whatI've come to understand is just
(43:06):
because I think it doesn't meanit's real.
And oftentimes, when oursystems, when I get overwhelmed,
when my system gets overwhelmed, it's hard to be able to
differentiate between what'sreally happening and the stories
(43:31):
that I'm making up or what Ithink is happening.
And some of the greatestteachings I've had from some of
my mentors has always been totake those moments to the land.
So when we feel overwhelmed,when we feel like we may not
(43:54):
even be living in our bodies,that we can't touch hope and
there's this real sense ofdesperation and aloneness.
I know that if I go to thetrees and I sit at the base of a
tree and I lean back into thetree, that I can feel the trunk
(44:17):
in my spine touch and become one.
If I think about that tree, ifI was to sit and close my eyes,
I can understand that beneath meis earth, is a solidness of
earth, and there's also a rootsystem.
And if I could imagine it, it'sas if I'm being held by a root
(44:42):
system, that I'm finding my ownbackbone, that there's somehow
support within me, I'm touchingmy own support and that somehow
there's something you knowthere's this being, there's this
living being, this tree that isholding this very grounded
(45:06):
energy that goes from the earthup into the heavens, into the
cloud realm.
And that in that moment, if Ican just surrender and be there,
if I can put my fingers intothe soil of life, if I can feel
(45:28):
the texture of that soil, it'scoolness, it's dampness, that
somehow I remember that I too amalive.
In those moments there'ssomething that I think that we
(45:52):
remember about ourselves, orthere's something that awakens.
And then you know sometimeswhen, if we could just do that
one thing, whether it's a treein our backyard or whether we're
at our desk at an office and wejust draw a tree or we imagine
(46:13):
it, we close our eyes for aminute and just imagine there's
a way that that just invites usto pause for a minute, to just
to breathe, to not feel so alone.
And I feel right now.
(46:33):
We live in a time where life ishard Mentally, people are taxed
, there's a lot of anxiety anddepression and hopelessness.
And there's an excitement forme when we're together on the
(47:02):
land or when someone goes on theland about, we find life again,
we find connection, we findbreath.
And I realize that just as ourearth is made up of the elements
(47:23):
earth and air and fire andwater and space, so am I.
And when I can understand thatif I have a lot of wind in my
system or a lot of air the daysthat I'm talking a lot and not
(47:44):
in stillness, I understand thatthat does something to the
element of air in me, and sothen I can feel anxious or
overstimulated.
And so by being on the land andwith the elements of the land,
that somehow it has a way ofrecalibrating the elements
(48:10):
within me and bringing agrounding and a calmness.
Sometimes there's this euphoriaof almost being invincible on
the land because I come, youknow, we have this invitation to
come back into balance andalignment, and I think that's
(48:35):
one of the hard things aboutsedentary lifestyles being on
computers a lot sitting, a lotbeing inside a lot.
Is that we really?
We miss that calibration, wemiss that nourishment that the
(48:59):
land has to offer our systems.
Avantika (49:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
I imagine, too, that it'sprobably easy to be on the land,
and if we're really consumed bywhat's going on in our heads or
in our lives, you know to missthose opportunities to connect
and calibrate.
(49:25):
So you know, do you haveanything you could share with
folks who are listening, who arefeeling ready to slow down, who
want to connect more deeply,who want to feel inspired by the
magic and the wonderment of theplanet and from all that you've
(49:47):
learned from the animals andall that you've experienced
personally, any words of wisdomto share with people who are
ready to do that now?
Kari (50:08):
Simplicity, so does it need to be, you know, a 10K hike
with two or three hours out onthe land?
I mean that would be amazing.
Sometimes it's sitting in yourown home or your own office and
(50:28):
it's just touching some thingsthat are around you, things that
have different qualities ordifferent textures.
You know, perhaps it's pullingup an image on the computer of a
(50:50):
lion or a fish or an elephantand just really being with that
image for a moment.
I think when we're driving orwe're out on the land and we
notice something out of ourperipheral vision, whether it's
(51:14):
an animal that's there or it's atree, can we engage with that
being, whatever it is, with allof our senses.
You know I'll often say this topeople that I'm working with,
(51:37):
with their dogs that and it goesthe same for cats or any
animals that we share our spaceswith there's something really
profound about going on asensory experience with your
animals, the animals that sharespace with you, your animal
(51:59):
companions to you.
Know, what does their fur feellike?
You know, could you recreatethem in front of you so that if
you were at work and theyweren't in the same space as you
, could you close your eyes andstill feel their body and where
their ribs are.
Could you feel their furunderneath, you know?
(52:21):
Is their fur wiry?
Is it soft?
Is it long, is it short?
What's their musculature like?
You know.
Can you use your mind's eye tosee their build and what they
look like, you know?
Can you, in your imagination,pick up their little foot and
(52:41):
smell that you know littlepopcorn foot?
Can you smell that scent andthat essence?
You know, perhaps you've donesomething like giving them
tripes this morning thatsomething that has a real taste
palette or smell palette, whereyou can actually feel it,
(53:03):
activate the saliva in your ownmouth just from its smell.
And so there's this way ofbringing our senses in to again
create that aliveness, thisrealness.
And I believe that that is sucha simple thing that we can do,
(53:27):
and it can be so calming and sosoothing and so connecting and
so real.
And for those of us that don'thave animals at home but have
plants, we can go on the samejourney with a plant or a tree
in our yard.
So it's also being creativearound.
(53:49):
What are the things that makeyou feel connected?
For somebody else it might be abook.
Can you activate that book froma sensory perspective.
And if we could take a minuteout of our day when we're
feeling overwhelmed ordisconnected and just played
(54:12):
with that for a moment, if wecould connect to our animal
companions that way physically,where we had that much touch, so
that we could embody them, wecould bring them into our
sensory awareness, then thatdoes something, that that
(54:35):
changes us somewhere deep inside.
That changes us, it awakens usand it heals us.
Avantika (54:46):
Honestly, listening to you, what I feel like doing and
what immediately came to myimagination was going with our
cat into our backyard and likeexperiencing what she's
experiencing.
I don't know why, immediatelyin the beginning, when you were
describing this, I'm likethinking about Fiona on the
(55:08):
grass and like actually gettingdown there with her and asking
her like what are you looking at, what are you smelling?
And experiencing life?
You know to the best of myability, through her eyes and
through her senses, and howbeautiful and powerful of a
bonding experience that can beas well.
(55:28):
And I'm definitely, you know,these days I'm just so aware of
the fact that me getting time toactually touch my dogs and my
cat and is such a gift, you know, and it's so precious to be
able to do that with them andsmelling their paws like I love
(55:50):
doing that and just those quietmoments, you know, where we can
really just kind of like how youdescribed, you know, that
experience with the babyorangutan, like just being there
in that moment and feeling seenand feeling connected and
everything else just kind ofmelts away, like I see you, I
(56:13):
witnessed you and you see me,you witness me, and we can just
share this, this beautifulmoment together.
And you also mentioned you know,you know, for if we're in an
office or don't have accessNecessarily to get out on the
land or to be with animals, toeven, you know, pulling up a
(56:35):
picture of them, and that'sreally the beauty of this
intuitive connection that we canhave with other beings, and the
power of intention and and howbeautiful that can be with just
you know, like you said, if youcan't be physically with the
tree, how interesting of anexercise it would be to just
(56:58):
even draw the tree and imagineit and using all your senses to
imagine that you are awarethey're there with the tree.
So, yeah, you've given us somuch to think about and so much
to digest.
Our time has just flown by like.
I feel like, as always, wecould just sit here and keep
(57:21):
chatting and and listening toyou release.
Truly, such a gift carry yougive us every time we talk.
You give us a lot of things tothink about, you give us a lot
to feel inspired by and a lotyou, at least for me, you help
me realize that there's so muchmore I can explore in myself and
(57:47):
there's so much room for thatmagic to add light and joy and
excitement to my life, so I'malways learning new things from
you.
Thank you so much.
Kari (58:00):
You're very welcome.
I'm always learning new thingsfrom you as well, you know, I
think, one little piece thatI'll add on about why that
sensory experience it ties intowhat you were just saying about.
(58:23):
You know what if you can't bewith that animal or tree or in
that space?
One of the things I reallyappreciate about doing that
sensory exploration Is this youknow, one of my, my deep loves a
(58:48):
dog that had spent many yearswith me menu pastor leader this
year, because we spent so muchtime together and there's a
whole other story as to likethat's a whole other episode,
but one of the pieces that I canshare because I spent so much
(59:11):
sensory hands on time with herdoing exactly what we were just
talking about that now, eventhough she's not in a physical
body, I can recreate her infront of me, I can feel her, I
can see her, I can smell so manydifferent parts of her, I can
(59:36):
awaken her Through all of mysenses and have her be alive in
such different ways, and that'sa really important gift to bring
forward when we go through that, that loss.
(01:00:06):
Also, alongside of that, I knewthis morning, because of who
Barbara was, that she'd becurious about the wild ones and
what that experience was like.
One thing to have gone throughthat experience many years ago.
And it's a powerful exercisefor me to sit as the person that
(01:00:31):
I am now and close my eyes andremember.
Bring the jungle to life, bringthe orangutan to life, bring
the elephants through all of mysenses so that they can still
talk and share with me now and Ican continue to learn that I
can still be in connection.
(01:00:51):
That way, I'm never alone.
Barbara (01:00:56):
That's so sweet, carrie , and beautiful Everything
you've said.
Like Avantika said, it'smagical and it's poetic.
The way you speak is poetic.
It's like sitting at the footof a wise old soul who has so
(01:01:17):
much to share, so much wisdom.
So thank you for all you'veshared with us and you've given
all of us a lot to think aboutand to feel and to be inspired
by and to move forward with.
So thank you for for all you'veshared today.
Kari (01:01:39):
Thank you, barbara.
That means a lot coming fromyou.
Barbara (01:01:43):
I love you, carrie.
I love you too, barbara.
Kari (01:01:46):
I treasure our relationship.
Avantika (01:01:49):
I love you both.
Barbara (01:01:51):
I love you too.
Avantika (01:01:54):
I feel like I need to fit in here.
No, I love you both.
You know that this was solovely.
I'm so glad we got to do it and, like you said, carrie, there
are so many more conversationsto be had and to share.
We've just scratched thesurface.
So in the meantime, thoughbefore we, you know, can hear
(01:02:16):
you on the podcast again Couldyou tell our listeners where
they can find out more about youor where they can reach you?
Kari (01:02:25):
Yeah, thank you.
You can email me at k l e s I ck at gmailcom, or my website is
Carrie messickcom.
Avantika (01:02:41):
Perfect, and we'll make sure that we put those
links in the show descriptions.
Everyone can find you easilyand anything, before we wrap up,
carrie, that you would like toshare with us.
Kari (01:02:53):
I just like to say that, avantika, if it wasn't for you,
the three of us wouldn't besitting here.
You have a great way offollowing your intuition and
reaching out to people in a waythat other people wouldn't, and
(01:03:14):
building community and bringingpeople together.
So thank you for that.
Avantika (01:03:19):
The pleasure is all mine.
I'm very aware of all thebeautiful souls I get to be
around in this lifetime, so Ijust want to bring them all
together and to have all theseamazing conversations and bring
more people in.
So thank you.
Barbara (01:03:39):
I just want to second that, carrie, that Avantika is
an unbelievable networker andtechie person and friend and
just amazing.
And it's true I wouldn't knowyou, carrie, without Avantika.
What a gift.
So thank you both.
(01:03:59):
I love you both.
Avantika (01:04:02):
Thank you.
Yeah, I think we were justmeant to find each other.
I was just the mechanism and myheart was probably just the
compass.
So thank you both for being inmy life and thank you to all our
listeners who have tuned intothis episode, and we really hope
that the conversation has givenyou some food for thought.
(01:04:24):
We would love to hear yourfeedback, any questions you have
, any comments you have.
Please share them with us.
We love to hear from you.
And before we wrap up theepisode today, we would like to
end with a brief blessing, asalways, for the animals.
Barbara (01:04:41):
We'd like to end this podcast by taking just a moment
to be quiet and we give thanksand blessings to these amazing
animals that we share our liveswith.
They give us so much and askfor so little in return.
We hope that you can keep theanimals and all living beings in
(01:05:02):
your heart and in your mind asyou go about your day.
Thank you so much for beinghere with us today.
Hi there and welcome.
You're listening to Animals andUs voices of a new paradigm.
Avantika (00:17):
My name is Avantika and I'm a researcher exploring
animal consciousness,environmental sustainability and
planetary health.
I want to help bring animalperspectives to the table and
transform our relationship withthe natural world, and I'm
Barbara.
Barbara (00:32):
I'm an animal communicator and retired
veterinarian.
My true passion is exploringthe hearts and souls of animals
and helping people come to amuch deeper understanding of who
the animals truly are at theircore.
Avantika (00:48):
This podcast is for anyone who loves animals and
nature and has an interest intheir own personal and spiritual
development.
We'll bring you powerfulconversations with fascinating
people about animal and nature,sentience, consciousness and
communication.
Barbara (01:05):
Thank you so much for joining us on this journey of
love, respect, understanding andcare for the fellow beings who
share our beautiful Mother Earthwith us.
Avantika (01:20):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Animals and
Us voices of a new paradigm.
I'm so excited to introduce youall to our guest for today and
a really dear friend of mine,carrie Lesick.
Carrie, I met her for the firsttime last year I can't believe
that it was just a year ago inKelowna, british Columbia, which
(01:42):
is in Western Canada.
Kelowna is a city nestled in avalley surrounded by mountains,
by the water, and I want tomention this because Carrie was
my guide and my mentor as Imoved into this beautiful place
and started to explore it, and Iknew immediately that Carrie
was so deeply connected to theland and all the beings that
(02:05):
inhabit it.
Carrie has this way of livingin deep connection,
communication and gratitude forall the species, whether it be
companion animals, the wildlife,the trees, the plants, the
water, the rocks, everythingthat surrounds us.
She's a person of many gifts,talents and passions who has a
(02:29):
fascinating history, so let'ssee if we can capture a little
snapshot of her background andthese various gifts.
Carrie works with humans andanimals on many different levels
, doing integrative healing,counseling and mentoring, while
balancing their physical,emotional, environmental and
(02:50):
spiritual needs.
She uses a number of differentmodalities, which I think we'll
hear more about today.
She's trained in body talk,hakomi.
She's also an interspeciescommunicator.
She has spent a lot of timewith dogs, and I think we'll
hear more about that today aswell.
She's also traveled quite a bitand has communicated with
(03:11):
orangutans and elephants inSoutheast Asia, and she spends
if there's one thing I can tellyou about her, she spends a lot
of time on the land as well,outside.
So the list of cool thingsabout her just goes on and on,
and we're excited to dive intosome of those today.
Barbara and I have both had thepleasure and honor of getting to
(03:32):
know you, carrie, over the pastyear or so, and I think it's
just one of those relationshipswhere we feel like we've known
each other forever.
My husband, too, has had thepleasure of getting to know you,
carrie, and I asked him thismorning to give me three words
to describe you.
So he said charismatic, lovingand spiritual, which I thought
(03:54):
was pretty bang on.
I was like, yeah, I 100% agree,carrie.
I feel like you're someone whohelps people tune into the
guidance that is there for themand available to them.
Every moment of the day, youshow us how life is, always
speaking to us and communicatingwith us through all sacred and
sentient beings, and we're sohappy that we could finally have
(04:17):
this conversation.
So thank you so much for beinghere and welcome.
Kari (04:22):
Thank you, avantika.
I also want to thank to Vinderfor his three words and Barbara,
it is always a delight to bewith the two of you.
There are very few people inthe world that when we get
together, we can go so manydifferent directions and so many
(04:45):
different beings, seen andunseen, can show up in our
conversations.
So, yeah, thank you for havingme here today.
I'm excited.
It's a long time in the workfor this to come together.
One thing I would like to dobefore I start is you know, I
(05:06):
met Avantika a year ago and wewere on the Silk Territory and
I'm grateful to the people ofthat nation and time and
memorial, the ceremonies and theways that they've honored and
held those lands in such highregard and the relationship with
(05:29):
the four legged in the plantkingdom.
And I also want to share todaythat I'm in a different location
, that I'm on Treaty SixTerritory, which is colonially
known as Edmonton.
I've had the immense gift ofthe past week of creating
(05:55):
relationship with the land,coming here and introducing
myself to the trees and thegrasses and slowing down to
really just connect with theroots of the nations that are
here the Cree and the Blackfootand Nakoda and the Denny and the
(06:18):
Mady people, also from Region 4.
I know that there are manyother nations that are here as
well, and I really am humbled bythe opportunity to connect with
, being seen and unseen here too.
Barbara (06:33):
Thank you, terri, that was so beautiful and I've loved
all of our conversations and I'mso inspired by you and your
connection with the land and theNative peoples.
I live in the US and you bothin Canada.
It makes me want to move toCanada, but it's been really,
(06:58):
really, really wonderful gettingto know you and we've had some
tremendous conversations and nowwe get to do it on the podcast.
So I'm very excited.
And, carrie, briefly, what isthe work you do?
What is your overridingintention or purpose or goal in
(07:21):
the work you do and what got youthere?
What's a little bit of yourpersonal story?
Kari (07:28):
That's a big question.
The overriding intention isthat your phrasing.
Is that your words?
Barbara (07:40):
Yeah, Just what calls you, what kind of work are you
actually doing and why?
I know it's a big question.
Kari (07:49):
It is a big question.
What calls me is beingconnected, feeling a sense of
connection, a sense of unity,and for many reasons, my 10,000
(08:10):
hours has been on the land andwith the land.
Some of that has been alone.
A lot of that has been with thedogs.
The dogs have been incrediblementors for me in understanding
communication and understandingrelationships and understanding
(08:32):
connection.
And the beautiful thing arounddogs is, you know, I think, when
we ask one another, how are youdoing today?
And oftentimes the answer thatyou're going to get is well, I'm
fine, even if we're not fine,we're just so conditioned and
programmed.
(08:52):
The dogs have always shown methe truth and they've always
mirrored, as people talk, what'sgoing on within their
relationships, theirrelationship to self, their
relationship to others.
So it really has been a studyof the journey into the heart,
(09:15):
into communication, into theways that communication gets
blocked or stuck.
You know, intuitivecommunication can be with all
form and all being.
So it can be with animals, itcan also trees and rocks and my
(09:39):
liver or my gallbladder, andthere's not really any
separation.
So sometimes, as people aregoing through their own
challenges and blockages andbarriers in life, part of that
intuitive communication is justslowing down and really being
(10:02):
able to connect into what partof the body is telling you or
wants to say.
So my passion is listening, iswatching and witnessing, is
being an advocate for beingsthat don't necessarily have an
(10:24):
equal voice at the table.
I think sometimes we makedecisions around animals or
plants or the land withoutconsulting those beings, and
also part of a big part of mypassion is with the human animal
and the ways that we struggleuniquely.
(10:48):
You know, we have thisconsciousness, this greater
being that we call the mind,which is often our greatest
hindrance, and so I really oneof my passions is taking people
and just being on the land withthem and allowing the laws of
(11:11):
nature, the elements, to bringtheir teachings and their
lessons.
The one thing I know for sure isthe one thing that I can trust
is the laws of nature or truth.
Some of the man-made laws, someof the laws that I make up, can
get me into a lot of trouble.
(11:31):
So the most aligned andbalanced, I feel, is when I'm on
the land and quiet and justlistening and watching the magic
show up.
I appreciate that when I'm onthe land with someone else, that
(11:56):
we get transported back into astate of childlike curiosity,
and so, with that awe andwonderment, there's often beings
or messengers that will show upin the most unexpected ways, at
(12:16):
the most unexpected times andsomehow, when we're in resonance
and together, our blinders comeoff.
And so what I mean by that is wecould walk the same trail and
be stuck in our own heads, orhave had something come up in
(12:38):
the morning that has us swirlingor angry, and we could walk by
that same eagle or deer orsymbol on a tree and not even
notice it.
So, when we can stop, pause andslow down and come into
resonance and the harmony withnature, now those messengers, as
(13:01):
they show up, they bring giftsfor us, they bring information,
pockets of information, theybring hope, they bring messages,
and the biggest thing that I'venoticed is they bring an
invitation back into self, backinto being embodied, back to
(13:25):
finding safety and trust withineach of us.
It's kind of a long and broadand detailed answer.
Barbara (13:42):
Perfect, it's perfect and it was beautiful, really
beautiful.
I think it's so important thatwe pay attention to these things
and that we communicate withnature and ourselves.
And that brings me to aquestion about what you're doing
now, which is Hakomi right.
Isn't that a system of tuninginto the body, mind, spirit?
Kari (14:08):
It really is.
So, hakomi, you're journeying,exploring into the body to look
at some of our core wounds ortraumas, the things that have
happened to us in life, andthere's ways those are living
(14:35):
within us and they hold us back.
They hold us back from living alife that we want to lead and I
really enjoy.
Hakomi is a lot like walkingout on the land with someone,
(14:56):
and how they're similar is weall have story and we start off
on this journey together wherein a Hakomi session, someone
steps sharing their story, thestory of how they're feeling,
things that have happened, andwithin that story, we get to
(15:18):
stop and pause for a minute andthen we get to notice, we get to
invite in the body and notice.
Where does that story live inthe body?
We notice it might be asensation of how it feels, or a
(15:41):
color or a shape or a story mayhave words to it.
And when we can really slowdown and witness what the body
is holding and we can get reallycurious about that and some of
(16:02):
these barriers, some of theseways that we carry limitations
into the world and we just holdback from having a vibrant life
where we can be consumed orafraid, somehow there's
(16:24):
something that shifts andchanges within us.
Part of the body starts toloosen off the ways that we've
been holding or guarding orarmoring or carrying ourselves.
If we can have someone takethat over with us and hold it
with us and we can relax into itfor a moment, there's really
(16:48):
important things that come out.
So it's really a journey ofbeing embodied and also sharing
and witnessing story.
Barbara (17:02):
I love that.
It sounds really wonderful.
And, speaking of story, you'vegot your own little story going
on and what I'm really curiousabout and excited about is that
you have traveled and you haveworked with orangutans and
(17:24):
taught why you were over in Asia.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that experience was
like?
What were you doing and why,and what was it like to be with
those orangutans in the wild?
Kari (17:44):
How long do we have?
Do we get to have a couplehours?
Barbara (17:47):
Yes, briefly briefly, karen.
Kari (17:53):
You know that part of my life was a very exciting time,
and it was a journey where Ifelt like I was in a Harry
Potter movie, where we would seethings and experience things
(18:14):
that you couldn't reallyquantify, that the human mind
couldn't make sense of, and itwas magical.
It was magical to be with theorangutan and I think the
journey of getting to theorangutan was one of stillness,
(18:43):
patience and also a tenacity.
I had an amazing mentor at thetime, a woman named Lucia Jacob,
and one of the things that Ilove about Lucia is she's larger
than life and the things thatthe average person would think
(19:05):
wasn't possible or wasn't doable, she would always be okay yes,
why not, let's do it.
And it was from a communicationthat she had.
We had one of the very firstworkshops that she had that we
were doing together as a group,called Linking Awareness, was in
(19:28):
the Singapore Zoo for thepractical day and there was an
orangutan there named Charlie,and when she had connected in
and the group of us was sittingaround observing the session he
was sharing about, you need togo find the woman that knows
(19:49):
about the orangutan and that shewas in Borneo, in Kelamantan,
and so to be able to go and findthis person.
And so we went on this journeyto meet and find someone named
Brute Geldikos.
And so the incredible part ofthis story was that Jane Goodall
(20:15):
, diane Fossey and BruteGeldikos all had their own
unique journeys with primatesand, to make a very long,
convoluted story short, it was abit of a treasure hunt.
(20:36):
There was a lot of time ofsitting and waiting and just
being patient, waiting for thedoor to open to meet Barute, and
so just in that act alone, Ithink it really taught the
(21:02):
importance of stillness, theimportance of rights of passage,
that sometimes all the time,it's really important to show up
when we're guided, even if itseems really crazy and we can't
(21:22):
understand why we're being toldto go sit at this place and wait
.
And so when we finally did meether, it opened up a multi-year
project of being able to look atanimal communication and to go
into the jungles and to justspend time with the orangutan.
(21:50):
One of the things I can share asa bit of a personal story was
the orangutan.
I had this experience one daywhen we were taking a group of
little juveniles out into thislittle playstation where they
(22:16):
got to just be in the jungle andexplore.
These little orangutans wouldcome like little kids and wrap
themselves around you.
We walked together out intothis area and I remember holding
one of the little orangutansand we were heart to heart and I
(22:41):
could just feel the heartbeatof this amazing being and
somehow, all of the years of myconditioning, my protection, my
guarding, the way I armored myown heart, it just fell away.
(23:07):
It fell away and it was a veryemotional moment for me Because
somehow in that moment there wasa safety of being witnessed by
another being other than humanthat could touch and see me to
(23:33):
the core of my humanness, thathad no expectations, that didn't
have me entombed in a frame ofwho they thought I was, that
somehow saw me in my wholeness,as I saw this being in their
(23:55):
wholeness and their light, andthe moment was magical.
It was a life-altering momentand some of the time that we
spent on the land and the jungleit was as if the orangutan were
(24:16):
just like come here.
I want to show you somethingand I remember one of the very
first pictures or the firstimages I took was of this
orangutan sitting on a boardwalkand it had its hand down on the
side of the boardwalk and theimage was just of the hand and
(24:41):
there was something so strongand powerful and gentle and I'll
often look at that imagebecause within the image is just
such, there's an energy thatyou can't even put into words,
that deeply and profoundlychanges you as you engage and
(25:07):
you dance with that image.
Something within yourself-structure, something within
my beingness, changed, and so Inoticed that the time in the
jungle, the time with theorangutan, really opened up my
(25:28):
heart, my capacity to love, mycapacity to be curious and
playful and probably one of themost important things is it
opened up my creativity.
It opened up a love affair.
It opened up a love affair withthe land.
(25:48):
It opened up a love affairwithin myself where I could take
the creativity of the feminineand put that into this love
affair in a way where it waspoetic, it was artistic, it was
(26:08):
dynamic and it allowed me toreally step into being a very
different person than who I wasseen to be in my family system
or in the third-dimensionalworld.
I think that one of thebeautiful things about animals
(26:37):
is that animals help push us outof having type A personalities
where we have structure andagendas and schedules and time
frames and if we can drop thatyou know the orangutan from a
practical perspective justbecause you're at a feeding
(26:58):
station waiting for them to comedoesn't mean that they're going
to show up.
And so there's this level ofpatience and beingness, and if
you could drop yourself weplayed a lot with, I played a
lot with if I could drop myselfinto that place of a still point
(27:19):
within, if I could connectwithin my own body and slow down
, if I could sit in my heart andsend out an invitation, would
(27:39):
they show up differently thanhow we're conditioned, as you
know quote unquote when we comein as tourists, where there's a
busyness and we walk in and anexpectation that they're going
to animals, are going toentertain, and they're going to
show up and be there, and soit's a very different energy
(28:01):
field, it's a differentconsciousness, it's a different
invitation.
And oftentimes, when we couldcome in either individually or
collectively and hold that space, then guess who would show up.
Does that answer put you aquestion?
Barbara (28:26):
Yes, I could feel it, carrie, it's like I was there
with you.
I got really emotional for awhile when you were with that
baby, with the orangutan, andyou know, I think something we
have in common is that deep loveof wild animals and wildlife
and nature.
And I've had experiences withwild animals.
(28:48):
The close personal ones havemostly been in captivity, but
still it's.
There's something so specialabout being with an animal like
that and somehow winning theirtrust and in sharing just that
(29:09):
wild, divine, natural essence ofwho we all are.
And you know what I'm curiousabout, as you talked about that,
it stimulated your creativityand I'm wondering how that
happened.
What's that about?
Kari (29:31):
You know, I that's a really great question and, as I
feel that question in my bodywhen you ask it would I keep
hearing rippling in thebackground Was the words love
affair, love affair, love affair.
And so when I think of humanrelationships and when I think
(29:57):
of beloved and when I think ofwhat is it like when we fall in
love with someone, another beingand a different part of us gets
to show up.
You know there's this euphoriaalmost, or that person that you
(30:18):
know, for a moment in time, wehave a snapshot in time where
that person that we dreamt ofbeing or these things that we
dreamt of in life seemedpossible in that newness of
relationship.
And I really feel like part ofit was the busyness of my life.
(30:39):
Once you come from the city andyou go into the jungle, you
know, barbara, what it's like tobe with the wild ones, or be on
the land when you slow down.
I think part of it was anactivation from being on the
land.
You know Indonesia is a countryof love, people that are some
(31:07):
of the most loving people andradiant loving energy is.
My experience has been inIndonesia and so I think that
there are places on the land onthis planet that also hold
different resonance, almostdifferent frequencies and
(31:28):
different downloads, and I feltpart of myself wake up, and so
it was as if somewhere in time,a memorial.
I had been on those landsbefore in another form and you
know, I make up a story thatperhaps there was something I
(31:49):
left behind or something thatwas left behind for me, and I
feel sometimes, when I'm reallycalled to journey to a place, I
get really curious about oh,where is the gift?
What have I come back toremember, what have I come back
to to pick up?
You know, what have I come backto collect?
(32:11):
And I really think that thattime of creativity it was coming
back to embody that, it wascoming back to, to have an
intimacy with the land, with theorangutan, with the jungle, and
open up that, that intimacywithin myself.
(32:31):
I know, with other people thatyou've had on the podcast that
perhaps you've talked aboutchakras and chakras and animals
and in humans.
I know that being on that landhad a big effect on some of
(32:54):
those, those energy centers inmy own body and activating that
energy.
I think, being in the junglealso, I dropped the bravado of
(33:14):
being an adult, and an adultthat knew things and I got back
to going, or I got to go backinto being a child again and
just being curious and playfuland so that you know allowed me
to walk through the swamp in mybare feet and feel the mud in my
(33:36):
toes, to watch some of thedifferent plants and you know
how they could catch a fly orcatch another insect.
There was just a real way ofigniting this childlike passion
about relating to the land andbeing alive.
(33:59):
So I think that there's a lotof complex answers around
creativity and what that wasabout, and some easy answers
around what it was about.
Barbara (34:19):
Thank you, and you know you just triggered something
for me.
First, I bet you the orangutanswere part of that playfulness
and creativity, because they,you know, when I've been around
them it's more in captivesituations, but the little ones,
oh my God, they're so playfuland adorable.
(34:39):
But also, you reminded me whenwe talked about creativity.
I hadn't really considered thisbefore, but because I've been
in some wild places with wildanimals and because I've had
personal relationships with somequote wild animals in captivity
, I think it's awakenedsomething in me too, that
(35:01):
creative spark, and I've beennoticing lately that I just all
I really want to do is write,and my writing is with the
animals, you know, connectingwith them, and I think it has
awakened more creativity in metoo, just those interactions.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
(35:24):
It's very, very, very wonderful.
And your experience, oh my God,I could listen all day and just
go there with you.
So thank you.
Kari (35:35):
Thanks, barbara.
You know I was thinking aboutyou this morning as I was
getting ready to come online andrecord with you today.
I was just sitting inmeditation and going back to a
time with the orangutan and alsothe elephants, and I was
thinking about you, barbara,when it came to the elephants
(35:56):
and I know that they are theelephant kingdom is a deep
passion and love of yours and Iwas thinking about you know a
couple of things about theelephants.
One was being drawn to, I wasinfatuated with their feet and
(36:18):
watching how their feet wouldmove and how such a grandiose
being could be so quiet and sogentle on the land.
And then the other thing thatwas intoxicating for me, being
around the elephants, is not thetrumpeting that they would do,
(36:39):
but that rumble of the sinuspassage.
And so when they would do that,there was something in me where
I would just close my eyes, andit was, I would just.
It was like ecstasy and I couldalmost feel my own cranial
bones and my own brain justmoving to that rumble.
(37:00):
And as I was hearing you talkabout your journey, barbara,
with creativity, I was like huh,I wonder if being around the
elephants, with that, thattransmission, that energy field
and just noticing within myselfhow I had that, how I felt that
(37:24):
in my own body.
If part of that energy shakesup the head and the places that
we hold really rigid and thethought patterns of how I think
or we think we should movethrough life, if somehow that
gets shaken up and that's alsopart of what opens the channel
(37:46):
to come into the heart and intothat, the womb of creativity,
and connecting the heart and thewomb of creativity, and I'd be
really curious you know for youhow that creativity has been
enhanced by your time around theelephants?
Barbara (38:07):
Wow, that's so interesting and I'm not going to
take up this whole podcasttalking about me and the
elephants.
But you know, to me when theelephants do that low rumble,
it's like a cat purring kind ofyou know.
They're just so calm andbeautiful and peaceful.
(38:27):
I don't know about it affectingmy head when I'm sitting in my
house writing to the elephants,but being in their presence is
and Avantika has been there withme too in Africa there's
something just so it'sindescribable.
When you're in the presence ofthose guys in their own natural
(38:51):
habitat, it's very, very, veryspecial.
So thank you for all that,carrie, and I'm going to turn it
over to Avantika.
Avantika (39:04):
Yeah, carrie, I was going to say I really hope one
day that you write a book,because listening to you speak
is like listening to poetry.
Honestly, you have a way oftransporting us with your words
and I really feel like you havea way of embodying what you are
speaking, you know, and by howyou speak it and what words you
(39:28):
choose.
So I just wanted to say thankyou for sharing that with us and
our audience and we can finallyshare your brilliance with our
audience as you talk about yourexperiences, and I want to talk
about, you know, something thatI went through this year.
(39:50):
It was a rough year for me, youknow, gone through some hard
times this year, earlier in theyear, and, carrie, as you know,
you had a really important roleto play in my journey and I
still think you do.
But during that time you werelike an anchor for me and I look
back and I feel reallyfortunate and I have the sense
(40:13):
of knowing that you know we hadto be physically together during
that time.
You helped me.
You helped to show me that Icould feel safe and comforted by
and held with love by the land,by the trees, by the water, by,
(40:34):
you know physically, comingwith me, taking me onto the land
and probably doing a lot of thework that you described at the
beginning, that you do withpeople, but I really felt like I
could take a deep breath andsurrender and really let go and
(40:57):
surrender to the laws of nature,which, as you said, represent
the truth.
So I just first of all, youknow, want to acknowledge that
and thank you for all that I canall the things that I can't
even put into words that you didto hold my hand and guide me
through that.
(41:18):
It was like a live experience ofwhat you.
But I want to ask you foranyone who's listening who might
be going through a really hardtime or in the future, if they
come across something in there,really in a place of struggle,
do you have any words for us onhow we can embody some of what
(41:44):
you've said and really turn tonature, turn to those laws of
nature, turn to the beings thatare around us, whether it be our
companion animals or beingoutside, or even connecting
intuitively with other beingsthat we're not physically
present with?
Do you have anything that youcould share with them about how
(42:09):
to gently navigate through atough time?
Kari (42:17):
Thank you for that question and before I give the
answer to that question, Ireally want to acknowledge your
vulnerability with even namingwhat you were going through or
the tough time that you werehaving, and what a gift it was
(42:43):
to just be on the land with youand just walk and just witness.
To answer your question.
In the struggles of life, in myjourney of life and some of the
moments I've had to meet, whatI've come to understand is just
(43:06):
because I think it doesn't meanit's real.
And oftentimes, when oursystems, when I get overwhelmed,
when my system gets overwhelmed, it's hard to be able to
differentiate between what'sreally happening and the stories
(43:31):
that I'm making up or what Ithink is happening.
And some of the greatestteachings I've had from some of
my mentors has always been totake those moments to the land.
So when we feel overwhelmed,when we feel like we may not
(43:54):
even be living in our bodies,that we can't touch hope and
there's this real sense ofdesperation and aloneness.
I know that if I go to thetrees and I sit at the base of a
tree and I lean back into thetree, that I can feel the trunk
(44:17):
in my spine touch and become one.
If I think about that tree, ifI was to sit and close my eyes,
I can understand that beneath meis earth, is a solidness of
earth, and there's also a rootsystem.
And if I could imagine it, it'sas if I'm being held by a root
(44:42):
system, that I'm finding my ownbackbone, that there's somehow
support within me, I'm touchingmy own support and that somehow
there's something you knowthere's this being, there's this
living being, this tree that isholding this very grounded
(45:06):
energy that goes from the earthup into the heavens, into the
cloud realm.
And that in that moment, if Ican just surrender and be there,
if I can put my fingers intothe soil of life, if I can feel
(45:28):
the texture of that soil, it'scoolness, it's dampness, that
somehow I remember that I too amalive.
In those moments there'ssomething that I think that we
(45:52):
remember about ourselves, orthere's something that awakens.
And then you know sometimeswhen, if we could just do that
one thing, whether it's a treein our backyard or whether we're
at our desk at an office and wejust draw a tree or we imagine
(46:13):
it, we close our eyes for aminute and just imagine there's
a way that that just invites usto pause for a minute, to just
to breathe, to not feel so alone.
And I feel right now.
(46:33):
We live in a time where life ishard Mentally, people are taxed
, there's a lot of anxiety anddepression and hopelessness.
And there's an excitement forme when we're together on the
(47:02):
land or when someone goes on theland about, we find life again,
we find connection, we findbreath.
And I realize that just as ourearth is made up of the elements
(47:23):
earth and air and fire andwater and space, so am I.
And when I can understand thatif I have a lot of wind in my
system or a lot of air the daysthat I'm talking a lot and not
(47:44):
in stillness, I understand thatthat does something to the
element of air in me, and sothen I can feel anxious or
overstimulated.
And so by being on the land andwith the elements of the land,
that somehow it has a way ofrecalibrating the elements
(48:10):
within me and bringing agrounding and a calmness.
Sometimes there's this euphoriaof almost being invincible on
the land because I come, youknow, we have this invitation to
come back into balance andalignment, and I think that's
(48:35):
one of the hard things aboutsedentary lifestyles being on
computers a lot sitting, a lotbeing inside a lot.
Is that we really?
We miss that calibration, wemiss that nourishment that the
(48:59):
land has to offer our systems.
Avantika (49:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
I imagine, too, that it'sprobably easy to be on the land,
and if we're really consumed bywhat's going on in our heads or
in our lives, you know to missthose opportunities to connect
and calibrate.
(49:25):
So you know, do you haveanything you could share with
folks who are listening, who arefeeling ready to slow down, who
want to connect more deeply,who want to feel inspired by the
magic and the wonderment of theplanet and from all that you've
(49:47):
learned from the animals andall that you've experienced
personally, any words of wisdomto share with people who are
ready to do that now?
Kari (50:08):
Simplicity, so does it need to be, you know, a 10K hike
with two or three hours out onthe land?
I mean that would be amazing.
Sometimes it's sitting in yourown home or your own office and
(50:28):
it's just touching some thingsthat are around you, things that
have different qualities ordifferent textures.
You know, perhaps it's pullingup an image on the computer of a
(50:50):
lion or a fish or an elephantand just really being with that
image for a moment.
I think when we're driving orwe're out on the land and we
notice something out of ourperipheral vision, whether it's
(51:14):
an animal that's there or it's atree, can we engage with that
being, whatever it is, with allof our senses.
You know I'll often say this topeople that I'm working with,
(51:37):
with their dogs that and it goesthe same for cats or any
animals that we share our spaceswith there's something really
profound about going on asensory experience with your
animals, the animals that sharespace with you, your animal
(51:59):
companions to you.
Know, what does their fur feellike?
You know, could you recreatethem in front of you so that if
you were at work and theyweren't in the same space as you
, could you close your eyes andstill feel their body and where
their ribs are.
Could you feel their furunderneath, you know?
(52:21):
Is their fur wiry?
Is it soft?
Is it long, is it short?
What's their musculature like?
You know.
Can you use your mind's eye tosee their build and what they
look like, you know?
Can you, in your imagination,pick up their little foot and
(52:41):
smell that you know littlepopcorn foot?
Can you smell that scent andthat essence?
You know, perhaps you've donesomething like giving them
tripes this morning thatsomething that has a real taste
palette or smell palette, whereyou can actually feel it,
(53:03):
activate the saliva in your ownmouth just from its smell.
And so there's this way ofbringing our senses in to again
create that aliveness, thisrealness.
And I believe that that is sucha simple thing that we can do,
(53:27):
and it can be so calming and sosoothing and so connecting and
so real.
And for those of us that don'thave animals at home but have
plants, we can go on the samejourney with a plant or a tree
in our yard.
So it's also being creativearound.
(53:49):
What are the things that makeyou feel connected?
For somebody else it might be abook.
Can you activate that book froma sensory perspective.
And if we could take a minuteout of our day when we're
feeling overwhelmed ordisconnected and just played
(54:12):
with that for a moment, if wecould connect to our animal
companions that way physically,where we had that much touch, so
that we could embody them, wecould bring them into our
sensory awareness, then thatdoes something, that that
(54:35):
changes us somewhere deep inside.
That changes us, it awakens usand it heals us.
Avantika (54:46):
Honestly, listening to you, what I feel like doing and
what immediately came to myimagination was going with our
cat into our backyard and likeexperiencing what she's
experiencing.
I don't know why, immediatelyin the beginning, when you were
describing this, I'm likethinking about Fiona on the
(55:08):
grass and like actually gettingdown there with her and asking
her like what are you looking at, what are you smelling?
And experiencing life?
You know to the best of myability, through her eyes and
through her senses, and howbeautiful and powerful of a
bonding experience that can beas well.
(55:28):
And I'm definitely, you know,these days I'm just so aware of
the fact that me getting time toactually touch my dogs and my
cat and is such a gift, you know, and it's so precious to be
able to do that with them andsmelling their paws like I love
(55:50):
doing that and just those quietmoments, you know, where we can
really just kind of like how youdescribed, you know, that
experience with the babyorangutan, like just being there
in that moment and feeling seenand feeling connected and
everything else just kind ofmelts away, like I see you, I
(56:13):
witnessed you and you see me,you witness me, and we can just
share this, this beautifulmoment together.
And you also mentioned you know,you know, for if we're in an
office or don't have accessNecessarily to get out on the
land or to be with animals, toeven, you know, pulling up a
(56:35):
picture of them, and that'sreally the beauty of this
intuitive connection that we canhave with other beings, and the
power of intention and and howbeautiful that can be with just
you know, like you said, if youcan't be physically with the
tree, how interesting of anexercise it would be to just
(56:58):
even draw the tree and imagineit and using all your senses to
imagine that you are awarethey're there with the tree.
So, yeah, you've given us somuch to think about and so much
to digest.
Our time has just flown by like.
I feel like, as always, wecould just sit here and keep
(57:21):
chatting and and listening toyou release.
Truly, such a gift carry yougive us every time we talk.
You give us a lot of things tothink about, you give us a lot
to feel inspired by and a lotyou, at least for me, you help
me realize that there's so muchmore I can explore in myself and
(57:47):
there's so much room for thatmagic to add light and joy and
excitement to my life, so I'malways learning new things from
you.
Thank you so much.
Kari (58:00):
You're very welcome.
I'm always learning new thingsfrom you as well, you know, I
think, one little piece thatI'll add on about why that
sensory experience it ties intowhat you were just saying about.
(58:23):
You know what if you can't bewith that animal or tree or in
that space?
One of the things I reallyappreciate about doing that
sensory exploration Is this youknow, one of my, my deep loves a
(58:48):
dog that had spent many yearswith me menu pastor leader this
year, because we spent so muchtime together and there's a
whole other story as to likethat's a whole other episode,
but one of the pieces that I canshare because I spent so much
(59:11):
sensory hands on time with herdoing exactly what we were just
talking about that now, eventhough she's not in a physical
body, I can recreate her infront of me, I can feel her, I
can see her, I can smell so manydifferent parts of her, I can
(59:36):
awaken her Through all of mysenses and have her be alive in
such different ways, and that'sa really important gift to bring
forward when we go through that, that loss.
(01:00:06):
Also, alongside of that, I knewthis morning, because of who
Barbara was, that she'd becurious about the wild ones and
what that experience was like.
One thing to have gone throughthat experience many years ago.
And it's a powerful exercisefor me to sit as the person that
(01:00:31):
I am now and close my eyes andremember.
Bring the jungle to life, bringthe orangutan to life, bring
the elephants through all of mysenses so that they can still
talk and share with me now and Ican continue to learn that I
can still be in connection.
(01:00:51):
That way, I'm never alone.
Barbara (01:00:56):
That's so sweet, carrie , and beautiful Everything
you've said.
Like Avantika said, it'smagical and it's poetic.
The way you speak is poetic.
It's like sitting at the footof a wise old soul who has so
(01:01:17):
much to share, so much wisdom.
So thank you for all you'veshared with us and you've given
all of us a lot to think aboutand to feel and to be inspired
by and to move forward with.
So thank you for for all you'veshared today.
Kari (01:01:39):
Thank you, barbara.
That means a lot coming fromyou.
Barbara (01:01:43):
I love you, carrie.
I love you too, barbara.
Kari (01:01:46):
I treasure our relationship.
Avantika (01:01:49):
I love you both.
Barbara (01:01:51):
I love you too.
Avantika (01:01:54):
I feel like I need to fit in here.
No, I love you both.
You know that this was solovely.
I'm so glad we got to do it and, like you said, carrie, there
are so many more conversationsto be had and to share.
We've just scratched thesurface.
So in the meantime, thoughbefore we, you know, can hear
(01:02:16):
you on the podcast again Couldyou tell our listeners where
they can find out more about youor where they can reach you?
Kari (01:02:25):
Yeah, thank you.
You can email me at k l e s I ck at gmailcom, or my website is
Carrie messickcom.
Avantika (01:02:41):
Perfect, and we'll make sure that we put those
links in the show descriptions.
Everyone can find you easilyand anything, before we wrap up,
carrie, that you would like toshare with us.
Kari (01:02:53):
I just like to say that, avantika, if it wasn't for you,
the three of us wouldn't besitting here.
You have a great way offollowing your intuition and
reaching out to people in a waythat other people wouldn't, and
(01:03:14):
building community and bringingpeople together.
So thank you for that.
Avantika (01:03:19):
The pleasure is all mine.
I'm very aware of all thebeautiful souls I get to be
around in this lifetime, so Ijust want to bring them all
together and to have all theseamazing conversations and bring
more people in.
So thank you.
Barbara (01:03:39):
I just want to second that, carrie, that Avantika is
an unbelievable networker andtechie person and friend and
just amazing.
And it's true I wouldn't knowyou, carrie, without Avantika.
What a gift.
So thank you both.
(01:03:59):
I love you both.
Avantika (01:04:02):
Thank you.
Yeah, I think we were justmeant to find each other.
I was just the mechanism and myheart was probably just the
compass.
So thank you both for being inmy life and thank you to all our
listeners who have tuned intothis episode, and we really hope
that the conversation has givenyou some food for thought.
(01:04:24):
We would love to hear yourfeedback, any questions you have
, any comments you have.
Please share them with us.
We love to hear from you.
And before we wrap up theepisode today, we would like to
end with a brief blessing, asalways, for the animals.
Barbara (01:04:41):
We'd like to end this podcast by taking just a moment
to be quiet and we give thanksand blessings to these amazing
animals that we share our liveswith.
They give us so much and askfor so little in return.
We hope that you can keep theanimals and all living beings in
(01:05:02):
your heart and in your mind asyou go about your day.
Thank you so much for beinghere with us today.
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