Converting Access Challenged Nations Distinct Cultures Part 1 ... English

Navigating cultural barriers is the most significant challenge in effective evangelism, more critical than language barriers which can be overcome with technology.

• Individualist Western cultures and collective immigrant cultures operate with fundamentally different values systems
• Apostolic churches already function more collectivistically than secular Western culture, giving us a unique advantage in reaching immigrants
• Approximately one in six people in North America comes from a collective cultural background
• Time perception differs dramatically between cultures - relationship focus vs task focus
• Hierarchical respect structures must be understood when evangelizing collective cultures
• Patronage relationships can be sanctified for kingdom purposes when approaching immigrant communities
• Global migration represents a strategic opportunity to reach access-challenged nations through their emigrants
• Hospitality is not just fellowship but specifically means "love of strangers" and is biblically commanded
• Cultural offenses often occur unintentionally, with neither party aware of the disconnect
• Collective cultures process through shame rather than guilt, requiring different gospel approaches

If you're interested in connecting with Dr. Azar's ministry or accessing multicultural ministry resources, find him through Facebook or the website links provided.

We love to hear from our listeners! Thank you!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's in the name of Jesus.
Hallelujah, yanda la boshata.
Hallelujah, mighty God.
Yanda la boshata, la la ba sakai.
Yanda la boshata In the name ofthe Lord.
In the name of the Lord,hallelujah, yanda la boshata.

(00:23):
Yanda la boshata.
Yanda la boshata.
In the name of the Lord,hallelujah.
Thank you Jesus.
Thank you Jesus.
Hallelujah, set before us opendoors that no man can shut.

(01:01):
Hallelujah, empower, equip yourpeople globally, god,
accelerate and multiply in timeRevival globally, god.
Hallelujah, mighty God In thename of Jesus.
In the name of Jesus,hallelujah, hallelujah, mighty

(01:27):
God.
Hallelujah Well.
Praise the Lord, everybody, andwelcome to our inaugural
session of Apostolic MentoringSpecial Edition English only.
And we are so, so excited aboutthis new venture and the way

(01:52):
that we are going to approachand attack and execute some new
programming to help peoplearound the world to become what
God wants them to become and todo what God is speaking to them
to do in their unique areas.
And today is such a coolinaugural episode.

(02:16):
It is focusing on reallymulticultural ministry, it's
focusing on access-challengednations, it's focused on winning
those who maybe are outside ofthe norm in our communities, and
this is so cool.

(02:36):
But before we even get intothat, I do want to take a few
moments and say how excited weare to have Dr Azar and Sister
Azar with us on ApostolicMentoring.
I have had the privilege toknow these amazing, truly
amazing, outstanding people ofGod for a lengthy period of time

(03:01):
, but I didn't know how amazingthey were, I just thought they
were like normal level amazing.
And then I got to be with themboots on the ground in New
Albany, indiana, louisville,kentucky, at the Win your World
meeting and, oh my goodness,when Brother and Sister Azar got

(03:27):
in a ministry setting and justactivated and began to do what
God has called them to do inthese last days, it was like
they were on a whole other levelof apostolic ministry.
And Dr Azar wound up teachingthis session during Win your

(03:50):
World.
That was probably one of themost articulate, anointed, deep,
revelatory lessons on winningunique cultures in our community
during the Win your Worldtraining and I sat literally on
the edge of my seat.

(04:11):
Not only did I feel like Ididn't get enough, but I felt
like it was one of the mostamazing sessions on evangelism
that I'd ever experienced in mylife and I kept telling
everybody, everywhere I've been,I've been telling everybody you

(04:32):
have got to hear, dr and SisterAzar, you've got to have their
ministries.
They're going to change yourchurch, they're going to change
your city, they're going tochange your nation.
Really, what we need is Dr Azarand sisters Azar to go with us
on the crusade.
Um, that would like be like.
All of you know what I want forChristmas If we believed, you

(04:54):
know, in Santa.
I'm not saying he's real, notreal.
I certainly don't want to messup anybody on Facebook or any
children on Facebook, but if Ihad a Christmas list, my number
one Christmas list would be airconditioning in my house.
But second to that would be Drand Sister Azar going on a
global harvest crusade anywherein the world to impart and equip

(05:20):
team members and the nationalchurches for this multicultural
access challenge ministry thatis fast upon us as we're dealing
with this mass migration andwe're dealing with mass
immigration in every nationaround the world.
To have the tools that Dr andSister Azar have in their belt

(05:41):
and to put them in ours tomultiply the kingdom effort
would be just amazing.
So everybody, start praying formy Christmas list.
Ac is number one.
I'm 45 days without AC, so prayfor AC is number one.
Number two is the Azars on aglobal harvest crusade.
But having said all of that, Ilove these great people of God.

(06:03):
These are just truly, trulyoutstanding leaders.
I want to give a little bit ofbackground on them for just a
minute and then I'm just goingto turn it over and let them
loose.
But they were.
Dr Azar was born in Jordan,immigrated with his wife and two

(06:26):
children to the US in 2007 formedical education, and currently
he is the associate professorof radiology at the University
of Michigan.
He was licensed with the UnitedPentecostal Church
International in 2018, servingas the director of Middle
Eastern Evangelism underMulticultural Ministries and the

(06:49):
director of Culture Program andMarhaba Center in Detroit Metro
, equipping and trainingapostolics to evangelize the
Middle Eastern communities inNorth America and Eurasia and
North Africa and accesschallenge nations Beast mode.
That is a cool bio, dr andSister Azar.

(07:12):
We love you.
Sister Azar, we just want tohear your voice.
I know next month we get tohear from you.
She's going to be our nextspecial edition guest and that's
going to be so cool.
But, sister Azar, we love youvery much.
We'd love you to greet theApostolic Mentoring community
and all those on Facebook andYouTube, and then I'll turn it
over to your precious husband.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Greet you in the name of Jesus and I'm so excited to
be with you.
One thing Brother Robinette didnot mention that he prayed me
through the Holy Ghost many,many years ago, Excited to work
for our great God and withpeople that are willing and
putting everything that theyhave to help and save people
like us.
I'll leave it to Shadi.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Bless you, sister Azar, sincerely.
You're an amazing woman of Godand you and your husband are
just a tremendous partnership offaith.
You, just what you do and howyou serve in the kingdom, is
exemplary and it's excellent,and we honor you and esteem you

(08:16):
highly, dr Azar.
Love you, sir Humbled greatlythat you accepted to be on this
episode, and we love your family.
Thank you for your, yourministry.
Please take your liberty andI'll decrease our screens and
you can have absolute accesspraise god and thank you so much
, brother robinette, for thiskind invitation.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
We are so honored to be part of the apostolic
mentoring.
We've been part of this umministry for a while, me and my
wife, but we are so honored tobe on this special edition and I
really appreciate the chance toshare resources with millions
and with a lot of people who arehaving the same burden, same

(08:57):
message that we want them to beequipped so they can connect
with people all over the world.
So they can connect with peopleall over the world, although
our focus with the multiculturalministry is on North America.
But we also provide resourcesfor our missionaries I see my
good friend here, brother Cedra,and also we connect with all
the missionaries in the MiddleEast and we work actively with

(09:20):
them.
I didn't see the harvest as oneunit.
Really, with the currentcommunication and travel
opportunities, we cannot talkabout certain country.
Everything is connected um.
I call my father almost everyday in jordan and I see him and
talk to him and I can share withhim things about the church and
what we do and what god isdoing.

(09:40):
So the connectivity has givenus an opportunity that we can
actually reach people and we'regoing to be reaching millions,
because I believe the internetis now similar to the roman
world at the time when thegospel came to the world and
spread all over.
So we have an opportunity thatwe should not really ignore.

(10:01):
What I'm going to be attemptingtoday is to focus on reaching
people from different culturesbecause, really, the language
barrier is getting smaller andsmaller with the new
technologies between GoogleTranslate, ai, printed material,
global tracks.
We have been focusing on thelanguage barrier for a long time

(10:23):
and, of course, we have thetheological barrier that I
believe the power of God canovercome.
Today, we're going to focus onthe cultural barrier.
I want to give this shortexample to just stir your
interest into this.
If I come to your house and youcater food in the United States
here, let's say from arestaurant you like and then we

(10:46):
come to your house and say, hey,in the United States, here,
let's say from a restaurant youlike and then we come to your
house and say, hey, we're goingto sit and have a great meal
together.
I honor you, let's feed thekids, and then we sit and have a
great meal and you can eatwhatever you like, you can scoop
whatever you want, and I say toyou, as a Middle Eastern person
, I would be offended threetimes One, that you did not
think I'm worth your time tocook for me.

(11:07):
The second is, by breakinghierarchical respect structure,
that you feed the kids beforethe adults and you don't want to
honor me by scooping for me.
You want me to do this formyself.
So, with our best intentions,our best attempts to connect
with people, to build friendship, so we can witness and reach
them with the gospel, we canalso, at the same time, offend

(11:30):
them unintentionally, and theywould leave our house with a
smile on their face, but we willnever know why we don't connect
with them anymore.
And this is the challenge thatwe have is that the culture is
something that cannot uh, itcannot be given to people on a
paper.
You absorb your culture as youlive in it and it's something

(11:51):
that you take it in the first 10years of your life, naturally,
by osmosis almost, and you getto know the behaviors that is
acceptable by your, by yourcommunity, or not acceptable.
And with that challenge is thatif I am going to give you the
gospel and you have rejected meor I offended you, you're

(12:12):
probably not going to receivewhat I'm bringing to you.
And, of course, the big examplethat we have in the bible in
the person of paul, where he hesaid I, I will be all things to
all men so I can win some.
And you can see how we changehis approach between ministering
and ministering in Athens andMars Hill.

(12:33):
So we have a lot of examples inthe Bible that encourages us,
as believers, to actually takeour Great Commission to people.
But it is putting theresponsibility on us to figure
out these cultural barriers andcross them so we can deliver the
gospel.
And I would like to share myslides with you because I'm

(12:55):
going to go through a few ofthem and I hope they will be
helpful.
So this is the beginning of ourum process here.
If, if you, I want to have agreat commission.
I was commissioned by god toreach the world.
Uh, the great commission saysall ethnicities, which means you

(13:17):
know that carries all culturesor races or languages.
Um, and if you want to disciplepeople from all nations and you
want to connect with them, thisrequires you to build some sort
of a relationship.
The reaching of the under reach,unreached people, groups all
over the world, I believe haskeys on North America on the

(13:41):
side, because the United Stateshave probably a person from
every country in this world andsome places, as you know, we
have 30 active challenge nationsthat we cannot go to, but they
have family members in the USand Canada who are able to go
there given the languageknowledge and they have the

(14:03):
culture knowledge and they havealso the passports to go there.
So imagine how we can reachpeople from all cultures in
North America and sending themas missionaries to the whole
world, especially places that wecannot go to.
If you look at this quick map,you see this is again 2023 and

(14:23):
these numbers are not countingundocumented or illegal
immigrants.
So we're talking asapproximately 85 million people
in total that live in thiscountry that have a different
foreign language other thanenglish in their home, which
means that these people areactually learning a different

(14:45):
culture at their household,although they can blend in with
the American culture when theygo to work or go to school, but
in their household they have adifferent culture.
Now, as an American, if youwant to reach them and you're
not completely understanding thecultural sensitivities that can
offend them, you would neverknow what you've done wrong.

(15:08):
And with these people, with 330million.
I'm talking about one out ofsix, one out of seven people
that we're trying to reach isfrom a different culture.
This is a map that shows wherepeople are spread, that
immigrated to the united statesand I think you can agree with
me that it's all over the mapand there are sector bigger

(15:31):
circles that shows where theconcentrations are and if you
look at, these circles areactually the metro cities that
we're trying to reach.
These are the areas that theupc is trying to put forward and
reach these multiple cultureson your soil and in Canadian
soil.
So this map will probably shockyou, because it really shows

(15:55):
the second most common languageper state throughout the United
States and you would probably besurprised to see some of these
languages listed on the map.
Swahili is one of the languagesthat you can see in Tennessee.
You can see Arabic in three orfour states as the second most

(16:17):
common language.
You can see Korean, vietnamese,russian, french even, and
Northeast.
So every language carries withit a different culture, for sure
, and we want to reach everysoul, at least in our
neighborhood, but I do believethat the impact is going to be
global.

(16:38):
But we have a huge interest in agroup of people who come in
from these blue countries,interest in a group of people
who come in from these bluecountries.
These blue countries actuallyrepresent countries that are
what we call collective, whichare so different in cultural
values and cultural perspectivethan the United States, and how
can we bridge that gap?

(16:58):
This is a very challengingthing and I'm going to focus on
it today, because most of thesecountries that you just saw the
map they come in from kin-basedculture, which means that all
the relationships between thefamily members and the hierarchy
of the community is all basedon blood ties, on marriage
connections, adoption based ontribal communities.

(17:21):
How they communicate andconnect and how they govern
themselves is all based on thathierarchy and based on that
collective mentality, and thisis what we call intensive
relationship.
It takes the nested structureof an extended family lineage
and hierarchy and becomes theframework of all the behaviors

(17:43):
throughout their life, and thisis a significantly different
thing.
I'll give you a simple example.
Walmart is a big organization,but it's not based on kinship.
It's a charter town with alegal document that gathers
different people together.
This is all governed by lawsand by agreement and not by

(18:06):
blood ties, but this is not whatthe rest of the world is doing,
and I believe there is researchthat shows up in the last 10
years from psychology andsociology that I think it makes
a little sense here.
I don't want to share it withyou because it will impact
evangelism.
One of the things the CatholicChurch did in the seventh

(18:28):
century that has significantconsequences on the European
continent is a prohibited cousinmarriage and that of course
weakened the kin-based networksthat we talked about in these
countries and that reducedtribalism and reduced
clannishness and it forcedindividuals to seek spouses

(18:50):
outside of their immediatecommunity and that fostered
social ties with strangers andpromoted trust and cooperation
between beyond the family unit.
And then the church said wedon't want cousin marriage
because it's incest, and theyextended that even to many

(19:11):
cousins, up to six in some years.
These expanded taboos compelledindividuals to form social and
economic ties outside of theirimmediate kinship group, and
then they also banned polygamousmarriage.
They say you cannot have morethan one wife.
And with that this shifted andsupported the development of a

(19:33):
nuclear household, as this isjust me and my wife and my kids.
That's the household, and alsoreduced male-to-male competition
and social hierarchies that aretied to that.
Now it also eliminated arrangedmarriage, which means everybody
get to decide who to marry.
That means that everybody hasan individualist perspective for

(19:59):
marriage and life and thatmeans less bound to familial
obligations and more focus onpersonal goals and relationships
.
So these things have changedEurope over centuries.
And then we have another majorshift.
Martin Luther comes in withSola Scriptura in the 16th

(20:21):
century and the level ofeducation in every culture went
up.
Usually you run around 5% to 6%, 10% max educated people, I
would say, who know how to readand write in any culture, in any
place in the world.
But in Europe it went up tosignificant degrees after the

(20:41):
1800s and 1700s and that reallyfostered the Industrial
Revolution and that fosteredsignificant improvement in the
standards of living,collaboration between different
countries.
So this map shows you thecountries that were exposed to
medieval church, catholic churchteachings, right, the, the blue

(21:04):
countries, the eastern greencountries, eastern churches, um
have absolutely left.
But overall, if you look at theopposite map, if you look
between these two like these,the blue color is almost the
opposite of the red color.
These are the kinship-basedcountries where it's focused

(21:30):
consistently on the collectivevalues.
But most of the immigrants thatwe're getting in North America
are actually from thesecountries.
So if I look at the AmericanChristian, the apostolic, the
Canadian apostolic, who wants toreach people from other
cultures, you look at him andsay you are Western, you are

(21:57):
technically educated, you areindustrialized, you are rich and
democratic.
So in reality that makes you alittle weird compared to the
rest of the world.
And again it's in a good way,but you are different than the

(22:17):
rest of the world.
And again it's in a good way,but you are different than the
rest of the map.
So the people that you'retrying to reach think and behave
and process differently andtheir psychology is completely
different.
Joseph Heinrich is theprofessor and his group have
suggested this acronym.
It's not mine, but I would liketo say that it really makes

(22:39):
sense to me because I moved tothis country as an immigrant and
I grew up in these collectivecultures and these non-weird
cultures and it was a challengefor me to build these
connections, even in the UnitedStates.
So I would like you to kind ofsee here that that barrier, the
cultural barrier, is real.

(22:59):
Why?
Because you as a person wouldhave certain attributes that you
do not share with the peopleyou're trying to reach.
You are an individualist in yourthinking.
You view the world throughyourself, putting premium on
individual rights and basingsuccess on personal
accomplishment.

(23:20):
You believe in moral principles, that honesty is a good thing,
believe it or not not, everyculture believes that.
You believe cheating is bad.
In other cultures, loyalty isto one's family often takes
precedence over such principle.
The weird people in NorthAmerica are much less likely to

(23:41):
lie to protect a family memberor a friend.
If they broke the law In othercountries, they don't even think
twice about it.
They would lie to protect thefamily.
You're also nonconformist in asense.
In a sense much greaterwillingness to resist peer
pressure and to ignore theopinions of elders.
Obedience is not a vitalquality to instill in children.

(24:04):
You want people to think andnot necessarily be a conformist.
Now, I'm not talking aboutapostolics in church, I'm
talking about Americans andCanadians in general.
And also, you think analyticallyas opposed to holistically.
I think holistically.
You think analytical thinking.
That involves focusing onindividuals and their properties
at the expense of relationshipsand backgrounds.

(24:27):
For example, if a person A isyelling at person B, an
analytical thinker might inferthat person A is an angry person
, while me, I think about it ina holistic thinker, I worry
about the relationship betweenperson A and person B, so I see
incidents and I see things in adifferent way.

(24:48):
You're also more trusting ofstrangers, which the
inclinations to trust strangersor cooperating with anonymous
others is a big factor and biginfluence on evangelism.
Because your group of people,the weird people tend to focus
on people's intentions andbeliefs and desires and judging

(25:11):
them morally instead ofemphasizing on their actions
morally instead of emphasizingon their actions.
But the non-weird societies,the penalties for premeditated
murders and accidental killingswere the same, while in many
weird societies in the west theycome, they came to depend on
the killer's mental status, ontheir intentions and on their

(25:31):
beliefs.
So the way you process thingsand you may analyze everything
is completely different.
Now these ideas and theseprinciples will translate into
behaviors, and the culture isactually a set of unwritten
norms of conduct that guide yourbehavior and which can say what
is right and what is wrong.

(25:52):
So I walk into your house.
You tell me hey, you can openthe fridge and grab some juice
if you.
I tell you, no, I can't do that.
In my culture this is offensive.
So it's a behavior that isdecided by the community what's
right and what's wrong.
Now, why am I saying this?
Because when you go and witnessto somebody, when I build a
relationship with someone, youthink that you ate their food

(26:15):
and you talk with them and youknow their holidays and you like
their dress or you know howthey dress.
You think that you know theculture.
But really the culture is muchdeeper than that.
There's a communication style,rules, courtesy and manners,
modesty, friendship, the conceptof fairness what fair with the
concept of time?

(26:35):
Uh, what is?
What is the class?
What is the family?
What is a?
What does the age mean to getolder or younger?
And how you treat, how youthink about death and sin, or
through marriage and parenting?
There's so much depth into thisthat can actually create a
bigger barrier to witness topeople than we do expect,

(26:56):
actually create a bigger barrierto witness to people than we do
expect.
So I want you to see yourself onthe blue here, where you're an
individualist that you think foryourself.
You prioritize your needs overthe others of the community.
It emphasizes self-reliance,independence and personal
achievement.
But somebody who come in frommy culture, collective culture

(27:18):
that I'm from birth onward, I'ma part of a cohesive family that
could be my clan or family thatprotect me throughout my life.
In exchange of loyalty andservice.
I have commitment to the groupI have to fulfill.
So people are supposed to beloyal until the day they die,

(27:40):
and the group itself is normallylarger and people take
responsibility for the otherpeople's well-being in the same
group.
So I'm here to tell you thatthe biggest barrier, I believe,
for evangelism is culture, notlanguage, and we're going to try
to break some of these barrierstoday.

(28:03):
Let's talk quickly about themajor thing in this map.
People who come in from theWestern Europe and North America
and Australia are individuals.
They were influenced heavily bythe Catholic Church laws and
they are, in their thinking, alittle weird compared to all the
immigrants who come into thiscountry.
So let's talk about that majordifference.

(28:24):
I believe an individualist is aperson who lives his or her own
life as they see fit, and theindividual may act on their
judgment and pursue their ownrules.
And the individual may act ontheir judgment and pursue their
own rules.
For me, a collective, the ideathat individual's life belongs
to their community and I am partof a larger group and I value

(28:47):
and follow the goals and therules of my own group.
I marry who they think is bestfor me and I go to school to
study what's better for theirfamily and the community.
Now I want to share with youthis here as the Bible was

(29:08):
written by collectivecommunities in a collective
culture, and we are apostolicsand we follow the Bible as close
as we can.
I believe that we move, asapostolics, closer to the
collective culture than the restof the population.
So because we are just readingfrom the same text that was
written for this group of people, and that means our values are
conservative, like they are, wefocus on the family and the

(29:30):
church becomes our family.
So we have a clan.
Technically, we call theapostolic the oneness apostolic
group.
We connect with them whereverwe go.
We feel obligated to help them.
So you technically live inchurch in a collective community
with a different set of valuesthan the surrounding community.
And you will find there's somuch closeness between

(29:50):
apostolics and the rest of theimmigrant population, between
apostolics and the rest of theimmigrant population.
And I can tell you, based onthe statistics we have, the UPCI
is mainly growing, in the lastfive years at least, mostly with
growth in immigrant populationsadded to the church, which

(30:11):
means that we have a hugeadvantage in the harvest because
our collective mindset,biblically, is coming.
We're living it by hospitality,by fellowship, by supporting
each other, by donating to ourneeds.
So we are a big family in NorthAmerica One million people clan
, and this is not a bad thing.

(30:31):
People can make their owndecisions, have their own ideas,
but we agree on basic valuesthat we live by.
So we have a higher opportunityto reach the immigrant
population in north america andwe have an advantage when we
travel to go to other countriesthat we actually connect easier
with people from these culturesbecause we are biblically based

(30:53):
and the Bible is close to thecommunity.
Now, if you live in the UnitedStates, you know that people are
trying to be unique in the waythey look.
They're trying to be alsofocused on nuclear family, just
mom, dad and the kids.
We also try to be independent,live on our own, not really

(31:16):
needing other people for any ofour needs.
We need to be autonomous.
You have your own, you growyour own food, you do your own
thing.
This is a thing in the UnitedStates and Canada.
We are very this culture isvery independent and that has a
bunch of challenges forevangelism and we have to
understand it so we can overcomeit.

(31:37):
Let me start with the advantagesof an individualist culture.
First thing is you respectother people, uniqueness, so you
are celebrating diversity ofother cultures.
You don't mind if people lookdifferent, spoke different.
You don't mind it, um.
And you also focus on personaldevelopment, not necessarily go
with what your family did in thepast.

(31:58):
You want to study theology.
You want to become a Christian.
You want to do whatever youwant to do.
You're free to do that.
There's no penalty for you todo that, and you can pursue a
change in denomination withoutmuch pressure from the group.
Also, you're an entrepreneur.
You can start your own business.

(32:18):
You can support, supportmissionaries.
You can really help the church.
You can spend your money theway you want, right, and you can
marry the woman or the man thatgod have given you direction to
.
So you have these advantages.
The disadvantages that we havewith this culture is there's
less hospitality, lesshospitality and there's so much

(32:41):
focus on privacy to the degreethat we're not opening our lives
to live and disciple others.
The other thing is we have somuch respect to other people's
privacy that when you see animmigrant, you are shy to
actually ask them about theirfamily, their community and how
they got here, what challengesthey're going through, out of

(33:02):
respect, but they interpret thisas lack of interest.
So this is one of the majorbarriers between individualist
and collective culture that Ihave seen here manifested.
People would smile in your facewelcome you.
That I have seen heremanifested People would smile in
your face, welcome you.
No one is asking me about myfamily, about my challenges at
night when I have no one aroundme.
Nobody's asking aboutimmigration status.

(33:25):
Nobody's asking if I need helpgoing to the airport, because
they're respectful of my privacy.
So this is one of the downsidesof an individualist culture
People wait for somebody to askthem for help.
Nobody's offering me help thatI'm used to in my community, the
collective.
They tell me how are you goingto the airport?

(33:46):
Do you have enough weightairport?
Do you have?
Did you pick up?
You know gifts for your peoplegoing to?
Do you need help with that?
We ask each other in thecollective culture because we
care and we want to show that wecare.
I know the individualistculture cares, but they for

(34:07):
perspective, privacy.
They don't start with thesediscussions.
So there are also some sideeffects to individualist culture
.
There's more isolation,probably more depression, more
anxiety.
It is less happening, much lessin the collective culture.
But when people leave theirfamilies back home and they move
to united states they feel solonely because there is almost

(34:31):
psychological dependence onhaving a big family and having
the support all the time.
Then they come into the US andthey come to your church and say
, hey, nice to meet, you,enjoyed your time with you,
we'll see you next Sunday.
And I was like what aboutMonday?
Can we meet on Tuesday?
Can I come and visit you onWednesday?
I mean, we don't do this in theUS and this is a big gap in

(34:54):
building relationship and indiscipleship.
They feel isolated when theycome here and we have an
opportunity as a collective, asan individualist culture here,
but apostolic, that we followbiblical training, biblical
request to say you need to behospitable.
A man of god, a woman of Godneed to have hospitality, and

(35:17):
hospitality means philozenos,love and friending a stranger.
We do very well with fellowship, but we don't do good enough in
hospitality, and hospitality isa command.
It's also not just to showhospitality to each other.
It's mentioned many times inthe Bible and I think we're
going to focus on that in thenext session.
Other, it's mentioned manytimes in the bible and I think

(35:38):
we're going to focus on that inthe next session.
On the other hand, if you lookat the culture of the people who
immigrate here, all the peopleyou go overseas to connect with
you have to understand that forthem, they are designed to serve
each other.
They are a relationship comesfirst.
They're exclusionists.
They see you as a stranger.

(35:58):
They think about we, they thinkabout I.
But they also value socialharmony.
They want to keep arelationship with their family
members because they are theones who support them, who help
them, who take them to thedoctor, who check on them, who
take them to the airport All ofthese needs.
They move you.
They're the babysitter, they'reroadside assistants, they're

(36:20):
everything to you.
You cannot break the socialharmony, otherwise you will pay
a big price.
So the central theme in thecollective culture is
preservation and advancement ofthe group as defined by its
members.
You don't determine that.
It is something that is set foryou.

(36:40):
Ok, so now you need to maintainthese relationships.
You end up having to lie andhaving white lies everywhere and
trying to beat around the bushwhen there is an issue and and
that creates a lot of culture ofgossipinging, a culture of

(37:05):
white lies all the time.
Now, when I this is an egyptianfamily in an evening like you
think this is thanksgivingdinner.
No, this is a regular evening.
This is, this is the mostimmediate family group.
They're just snacking, eating,talking.
This is how they spend theirevenings and you have siblings,
grandparents, aunts and uncles,in-laws.
Everybody is in the same.
Why?
Because they move and theybelieve that they are a group,
they're one unit, they take careof each other and they support

(37:28):
each other.
Now, psychological attachmentand fear of rejection play an
important role in theevangelistic effort that we do,
because if you want to getsomebody out of this group and
you tell them, hey, I see youonce a week, see you on Sunday,
and they're going to convert andbe shunned by their whole
family and lose all this support, this is going to be a huge

(37:51):
price to be paid and we have tounderstand this and the group
actually intentionally make itharder.
Because what if that door isopen to others to leave the
group?
Can we risk losing the entirefamily, to break down and become
weak and become smaller number?
There's strength in number.
So everybody or anybody in thispicture who decides to change

(38:15):
denomination or change faith,they will be pressed hard and
shamed, so others will not eventry to do that.
They want to make an exampleout of you.
So we have to understand thisthat when we reach collective
people, there is significantprice and there is also
psychological dependence.

(38:35):
There's significant price andthere's also psychological
dependence and we need to stepup and say are we able to
actually become their family andcommit to help them and support
them as they had?
Because the level of supportthey had is something.
If we cannot match this, thenwe're going to get them out of
there and they're going toshrivel and die Because they
cannot survive life withoutconnection.

(39:00):
Now I do believe that our churchmembers and our life groups and
connect groups, whatever youcall them, we're pushing into
this as a whole denomination,maybe as a whole fellowship, but
this is really essential if wewant to win people from other
cultures, to have these smallgroups and to have people come
and attend these, because thesetup in church that we have

(39:22):
does not allow to buildrelationships during service and
it would not allow us to openup deep conversations and
challenges of their life andwhat do they need.
So it is a must that we wouldhave to reach such a harvest,
and I think the stuff that wehave overseas starts with home
churches, the small groups, andI think this is actually aligned

(39:44):
with the culture, because youwant to create a community to
support each other.
Now you understand, also, inthese cultures, there are
generations who live together inthe same place, in the same
house, and that brings anotherset of challenges.
We teach people hey, cleavewith your wife and leave your

(40:05):
mother and father and andrespect them and honor them.
But there should be some sortof a boundary.
But these cultures don't haveboundaries.
So you'll have to deal withthese issues when you witness to
them and and they're going totell you and I, I can't, I have
a family gathering on sunday,every sunday with me, I can't
come to church.
What are you going to tell them?

(40:26):
I, he said, if I stop going andseeing my family, uh, then they
think I've left them and thatwould be determined and I would
be, you know, uh, ostracized.
And you also, at the same time,you want them to stay connected
to their family, so you canreach them, so you want to
exercise wisdom.
How are you going to handle thesituation?
You want them to be in thefamily because they're going to

(40:48):
be the voice of God in thatgroup.
You cannot be there.
You're not accepted.
Yet they are.
They're already in there.
Are you trying to pull them out, or are you trying to get them
converted as well?
So the wisdom that we need toexercise here is that we need to
be.
If these people are open and bediscipled outside of the church

(41:08):
, then we need to do that.
Attending a church service wouldbe, for a lot of people from
other cultures, a luxury, and ifwe only focus on bringing them
to the building, we will bemissing a lot of these
opportunities that we give thechurch to them.
And by taking the church tothem we actually get the gospel

(41:29):
to their community, because assoon as they come to church
let's say you have a Muslimfriend that came to church his
family knew about this thenthey're going to cut him off.
Then you're going to lose theopportunity to reach the gospel
with that group.
He was the only access to themthat is trusted and willing to
do it.
So we have to think about thisin a different way and approach

(41:53):
it.
Now.
Let me give you some advantagesof this collective culture.
Although from birth onward Ihave supported my family which
was amazing.
Just I had a wedding peopleflew from the Middle East North
Dakota, alabama, oklahoma,florida, everywhere to support
us and they offered.
They get support and help andwork and money.

(42:13):
It's a great support.
They are usually conservative.
They shame the bad behavior intheir community because every
one of the family membersrepresent them.
They share resources.
They're very hospitable.
They support the young, thelittle kids and the older people
.
They respect the elders.

(42:35):
But we have disadvantages inthis collective culture when it
comes to evangelism.
It is very hard to become partof that group.
They are afraid of strangers.
They don't have any privacy.
You can't sneak the Bible tosomebody and expect them to stay
in the room.
They're ignorant.
For him, changing your faith ordenomination will cost you

(42:58):
dearly.
And there's so much hierarchy.
There's a lot of corruption,there's a lot of gossip, there's
less value of women andteenagers and there's a lot of
tribalism.
There's a lot of backbiting andgossiping.
Okay, so there are so manydisadvantages in these cultures,
but they also have goodadvantages and I believe that we

(43:20):
need to be wise when we reachout to people that we can use
them in areas that are strong,like hospitality, you know,
supporting other people,sacrificial giving, all of these
things that do very well withit.
I don't want to endorse anyculture over the other.
I do believe everyone works forthe people, but I would like to

(43:44):
go through a few majordifferences that would help you.
When you evangelize people,let's focus on hierarchy,
because in the United States,when they see collective people
dealing with their kids and thecertain hierarchy, they might
seem oppressive.
But when they see you beinglike called by your first name,

(44:09):
by somebody younger than you,they they think this is
disrespectful.
So understanding this isessential because when you want
to do ministry and you'rereaching to people, you have to
understand that a family has astructure and you come in as,
let's say, children bus ministry.
The kids are in the bottom ofthe hierarchy.
They don't break anything.

(44:30):
You want to greet people,invite people to events.
You need to go to the elders,to the older people, to the
grandparents.
You want their blessings andeverything.
An uncle can tell his nephew Idon't want you to go to that
Sunday school thing because Idon't like them, and he has the
same power as a parent.
So you'll deal with the wholepackage and that package has

(44:56):
hierarchy and that hierarchywould reflect on how you're
going to do your childrenministry and how effective it's
going to be, because if youreally look at the children
ministry and the status of kidsin these, there's not really
strong enough people not goingto follow their kids to school,
to church or to Sunday school.

(45:17):
It's usually the opposite.
You need to invest your timeand effort in the leaders of the
.
It's usually the opposite.
You need to invest your timeand effort in the leaders of the
household rather than thechildren.
The other thing is you need touse your hierarchy as a pastor,
because if you come in as a manof God, a licensed minister,
have a position in your church.
You need to lead yourconversations with that, because

(45:37):
they are a hierarchical culture.
You do not want to be saying,hey, I'm just so and so I pastor
this church.
You need to present yourself inan, in a formal way, and that
will give you a lot of clout, alot of points in that connection
, and that will give you accessto their life in a better way.
You might think, oh, they might.

(45:58):
If he's muslim, maybe he won'tlike it that I'm a pastor.
No, they would respect youbecause you're a man of God and
the hierarchical structure thatyou are a pastor.
You get respect right off thebat, right away.
So use that.
Present yourself in aprofessional way.
It will always be better thangoing casual.
Now, if you are teaching, ifyou're a teacher in the church

(46:21):
or something like that, you haveto also use that authority.
Although we try in the Americanculture to be equal, we feel
that this is disrespectful.
I did not want my kids to calltheir teacher by their first
name.
What about what if my dad walkshome and my son is calling his
grandfather with his first name?

(46:42):
It's very disrespectful.
We want to keep the hierarchy.
We understand in the apostolicchurch that we do have apostolic
authority, apostolic respect toelders, and I think we do very
well with that.
This saying in Arabic here hesaid who taught me a letter?
I will be a servant for himforever.
So there's so much respect toteachers.

(47:05):
So I tell people if you're in ateaching ministry, you travel,
you go overseas, allow them torespect you, because this is how
they know to do it.
Don't disrupt that structureand try to be humble and sit
with everybody else and becasual with everybody else.
They don't know how to handlethat.
They get confused.
They want you to be in thestatus that they give you, and

(47:28):
this is a good thing.
Now, the problem with hierarchyis that they have so much
respect to you as a pastor.
They're not going to tell youwhen they have a problem, so
they're going to go around theproblem and try to avoid it.
Say, oh, pastor, they're notgonna tell you when they have a
problem, so they're gonna goaround the problem and try to
avoid it.
So, oh, pastor, everything'sfine, everything's fine, and
they're not gonna tell youwhat's happened.
They're probably gonna tellsomeone else, so they would tell

(47:51):
you, so you would know whathappens indirectly, and this is
what we call gossiping.
American culture is more directin communication and this is
easier to do.
But the other cultures, topreserve the relationship, to
avoid confrontation, to avoidbreaking harmony, they go around
the problem and they don't godirectly, and that can be very

(48:13):
frustrating if you do ministrywith them or you're trying to
reach them, and this is achallenge.
They do not want to be directand tackle the issue right away.
They want to sleep on it,ignore it and hopefully it will
fix itself.
The other thing is thesecultures, the collective
cultures.
They're not focused on the task, they're focused on the event.

(48:36):
You invited me to come to churchor to your house.
I'm excited about that.
I'm not thinking about thelesson I'm going to learn.
I'm looking forward to what thesermon would be.
I'm focusing on therelationship and with that you
might feel like people arecoming late to the event.
For you it's inconsiderate.

(48:57):
But if you're telling peoplehey, you came late, you should
have come on time.
We have a Bible study 7, 8, andyou just showed up at 8 o'clock
, that's going to sound veryunkind to them because they're
focused.
I want to come and visit you.
I'm making a cake and I'mgetting my best clothes on and
I'm thinking about the time offellowship we're going to have
together, not about the task athand.

(49:20):
So if you look at the way peoplebehave and look at time, it's
flexible.
Time is not precise.
If it's a 7 o'clock event, Ican come in 7.30, 8, 8.30, not a
huge deal.
But you also always have togive them a benefit of the doubt
and assume that what delayedthem is not them being lazy, it

(49:43):
is something else, probably theweather, probably sickness, gps
issues.
I always call people whenthey're late hey, did you find
the house okay?
Do you need me to send theaddress?
Are, are you okay?
And they say, oh yeah, yeah, weon our way.
We just stopped to pick up somedessert for you guys.
So it's always good, but don'tshow up like, hey, what were you

(50:07):
doing?
You made us all wait.
So if you have a Bible study andyou want to start on time, but
you're reaching people fromother cultures, if you start the
Bible study without them, theywould feel unimportant and
undesired and they will beoffended.
They will come, but probablynot going to come again.
You have to be very wise inaccommodating that.

(50:27):
Now you could say, well, theyhave to adjust to our system and
we have to live in the UnitedStates.
I agree with you, but that'snot required for people to be
saved.
That is not required for peopleto be discipled to show up on
time.
We need to adjust our schedule.
Maybe invite them earlier sothey give them time to be late.
Maybe tell them that I have acommitment today.

(50:48):
Specifically, I would love tofinish at this certain time over
.
Communicate, be kind, but you donot want to lose your harvest
just to for the principle ofkeeping time.
A lot of cultures believe timebelongs to God, not to us.
And if my uncle asked me totake him to the hospital before
the event the Bible study I feelmore obligated to my family

(51:11):
than to the Bible study.
You don't get offended and feellike they're not serious about
learning about the Bible.
They are, but they have alsoobligations with their families.
And then we talked abouthonesty and harmony.
A lot of people in the UnitedStates, they have direct
communication.
I say what I mean, I mean whatI say and these things are

(51:33):
important.
But in other cultures, as Isaid before, to preserve the
relationship, we have to go andbeat around the bush a little
bit.
So you invite them to church,say, hey, my friend, I want you
to come to church this Sunday, Iwant you to be my guest.
I would love to come to church,pastor, I have my cousin
visiting from out of town.
I'm going to take him to themuseum.

(51:53):
So he didn't say yes, he didn'tsay no.
But you should have readbetween the lines that he said
no, they know.
But you should have readbetween the lines that he said
no, I'm not coming because Ihave family obligations and I
cannot miss with that.
I I have a commitment to myextended family.
So you have to give them gracefor this because otherwise, uh,
every time they're going to bedisappointing the pastor,
they're going to feel ashamedand and pull away and not show

(52:16):
up again.
So, um, there's also levels ofcommunication.
I want to focus on thisreasoning aspect.
When you teach them Bible study, you have to know that the
United States teach youinductive reasoning, while most
of the world goes to deductivereasoning.
So inductive reasoning, it's aform of logical reasoning where

(52:41):
you focus on the example firstand then you go to
generalization.
You go to application and thenyou go to generalization With
that in other countries.
I want to know the principle.
What is the principle behindthis?
I need to know.
It's logically thinking, firstof give me the principle and

(53:02):
then you give me the application.
And this is the example I liketo give.
If you want to, we are told inthe United States, share your
testimony, it will be impactful.
But this is an applicationfirst process.
You say I received the HolyGhost.
It's in the Bible, bible.
Everybody should do this.
You started from application toprinciple, but a lot of people

(53:23):
think differently.
I want the principle first.
You're born with a sinfulnature.
You need a new nature.
The bible teach about it andguess what?
I had that experience.
So you have to start with aprinciple first.
And also you talk aboutdichotomous thinking and
holistic thinking.
That is helpful for pastors whominister with people from other

(53:45):
cultures, because we do judgeon the event.
But for me, I look at the wholehistoric process and I also
like to learn in a different waythan other people.
I like memorization andparables and videos and play a
church and all that.
This sticks to my mind betterFor you as an American, you

(54:08):
learn how to do word study andyou do how to do a sentence
diagram and charts andeverything.
So the movie, the Jesus moviehas won so many people all over
the world and that really helpsthem because it's more holistic.
It's more an example to do it.
So incorporate more of that inyour ministry.
It'll be very helpful.

(54:30):
The other thing I want to touchon is being a patron for your
community.
It might be corrupt, but reallybeing a patron, you become, as
an American, a source ofconnections and resources, not
necessarily financial, but itcould be.
It could be also access to care, access to resources, by

(54:50):
teaching English as a secondlanguage, by training people how
to drive a car, by helpingpeople move, doing all these
things.
So all of these things areactually biblical principles
that we have in Lydia and theShunammite woman in the Old
Testament is an example of apatron to the man of God.
And Lydia had the same thing.

(55:12):
But you know, when you are apatron in their life, you can
provide them with things thatthey need in return to sanctify
the relationship.
You're not using it to your ownbenefit.
You're asking them to come tochurch, you're asking them to
work to connect a Bible study.
So you, technically, are usingthis to their salvation rather

(55:32):
than to your own financial gain,which can be, of course,
corrupt.
So patronage can be sanctifiedand used for the kingdom of God
and for hospitality's sake.
We're going to talk more aboutit in the second session, but I
want to say that people buildtrust based on relationship in
these cultures, in thecollective cultures, while in

(55:55):
the United States, if I docertain tasks well, you trust me
, and I think this is where thedifference is.
I want to trust somebody.
I need to sit with him at adinner table, coffee table, for
hours and hours to build thattrust.
So every time you're spendingtime with people, you are
actually building trust and thisis something that you should be

(56:16):
investing in.
Spending time with people.
It's not a waste of time.
It is essential Because if youlook at the groups of people in
the US, you spend time buildingtrust with one or two people to
try to, you know, get them toconnect with God, but in reality
, in the collective culture,they have so many families it's
hard to get time with them andif that's the issue, you are

(56:40):
trying really to break into thatgroup and connect with more
people.
So you need to spend more time.
Probably you're going to spendhours to get into one person,
sorry, years to connect with oneperson, but eventually they
will connect you with the wholegroup of people and that group
of people would be the harvestthat you're seeking.

(57:00):
People and that group of peoplewould be the harvest that
you're seeking.
And finally, we are thecollective.
People are shame-based.
They feel ashamed when you sinrather than guilty, and for that
you need to use the rightlanguage to present to them if
they are actually.
If I sin in my culture, I feelashamed from going to God.
You're going to tell me thatJesus took your shame on the

(57:22):
cross, that he reconciled youwith the family of God because
he paid that price on the cross,and that language would speak
to me like, let's say, thecaribbean, where they're scared
of the you know spirits orspells or magic.
You'd say that god will giveyou the power to overcome all of

(57:44):
these challenges, all of thesethings that come against you.
So we have to use the rightlanguage in the bible, based on
the culture we're trying toreach, that will give us the
ability to speak to their heartsdirectly, not just to their
minds.
And it's all biblical, it's allin the bible and it's all
legitimate, and you can seethese.

(58:05):
There's many examples in thebible for that.
So, um, I hope we covered basicthings and um, I'm excited that
next session we will talk evendeeper about more precise things
that can be helpful to reachthe people from other cultures
and to reach actually peoplefrom different faiths.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Man, dr Azhar.
That is so amazing.
That is just so much powerfulinformation.
I wish that I told you duringthe Win your World Conference.
I wish I had known all of that10 years ago, you know, when we
started seeing this Muslimmigration into Austria, germany,

(58:56):
liechtenstein, switzerland, andwe were just grasping at straws
of how to get into thosecommunities, how to minister to
them.
There was such a distinctionbetween our cultures, even more
so the European culture, youknow, was so drastically

(59:16):
different than this migratoryculture, and we were grasping at
straws and thankfully God gaveus wisdom.
Thankfully, god, let us stumbleupon things.
Thankfully we learned along theway.
But as I was listening to thistoday, I thought to myself and I
know you shouldn't do this, butI did think to myself I wonder

(59:40):
how many more souls we couldhave won in that year of great
victory if we had not been soignorant of the cultural,
collective cultural things thatwere so different from our
individualist mentality andculture.
It seemed like sometimes weunintentionally offended people.

(01:00:03):
Sometimes we, with a rightmotive and a right spirit, you
know we were pursuing, you know,evangelism, but we were doing
it in a way that was literallyworking against us and yet we
couldn't figure out.
What's the key?
What am I doing wrong?
And here it is cultural and notlinguistic, here it is

(01:00:27):
collective and notindividualistic.
And so, dr Azar, this isabsolutely incredible.
I can't even wait for part twowith Sister Azar on August 13th
Everybody, august 13th.
That is our next, our very nextspecial edition episode of

(01:00:47):
Apostolic Mentoring with SisterAzar, and that is going to be
the part two of this episode,where we get a little more
practical and begin to put toolsin our hands for continuing to
reach this amazing culturaldiversity, not just in North
America but all around the world.
The cultural diversityinteresting point of information

(01:01:22):
.
Years ago, people were kind ofbeing critics of the diverse
cultural revival that we werehaving in Vienna, austria, and I
remember somebody saidsomething to me that was just
really asinine, just a crazystatement, brother Azar.
But they said your revival isirrelevant because it's not

(01:01:45):
indigenous.
And so they were challengingthe validity of the harvest in
Austria, you know, we had 150,you know Muslims that were
baptized in Jesus' name in a12-month period of time and 101
of them I think it was that werefilled with the gift of the
Holy Ghost.
And all of a sudden we had thiscollective community of over

(01:02:08):
100 Muslims in our church everySunday and yet they were
creating a collective and evendeeper collective culture within
our body.
That was amazing and I rememberpeople began to criticize this
revival and they were saying itwas irrelevant, it was not a
real revival because it wasnon-Indigenous, and that it was

(01:02:31):
unrecognized by God because itwas not indigenous, and just
crazy things.
The statements that were made,the criticism that was brought
against our church in Vienna,austria, because of this amazing
God revival that we can't eventake the credit for.
Obviously, god gives theincrease.
Nobody gets to take the creditfor his revival, gives the

(01:02:56):
increase, nobody gets to takethe credit for his revival.
But I remember doing someresearch in Vienna, austria, and
this was years ago.
This would have been what fiveor six years ago, and the
research was amazing.
It said that 48% of the capitalcities in europe, uh, as a
whole, were were non-indigenous,they were immigrant populated.

(01:03:19):
I mean almost 50 percent ofcapital cities of millions of
people was a migrant population.
And the report I read, um, alsosaid that within 10 to 15 years
, because of births, because ofthe intermarriages, because of
the cultural diversity, becauseof the growing immigration in

(01:03:42):
our capital cities.
It was saying the majority ofour capital cities would be
immigrant population or secondgeneration immigrant population
that maybe were you know,intermarried or what have you,
and you know.
Immediately I felt like the Lordspoke to me and said this is

(01:04:04):
not an irrelevant revival.
These are people that do nothear my voice, that think that
this immigrant revival is anirrelevant revival.
In these last days God spoke tome and said I am strategically
migrating these cultures that wemay not have access to in their

(01:04:25):
homeland.
I'm strategically migratingthem to communities where the
apostolic church can minister tothem and reach them and share
the gospel with them.
And not all of them are goingto stay in our communities.
Not all of them are going to begranted immigration status.
Not all of them are going toget to stay.
Some of them are going toreceive the gospel.

(01:04:47):
They're going to find anapostolic collective culture
that's attractive to them andthat has a gospel that is
attractive to them, and they'regoing to wind up carrying it
back to their homelands and homenations and home cities and
places.
We cannot go.
God has strategically deployed amigration, a multicultural,

(01:05:09):
multi-ethnic, multi-lingualmulti.
He's migrated them into ourcommunities for mass evangelism,
and so I'm so grateful for you,dr Azar.
I'm so grateful for the visionthat God has given you.
I'm thankful for the ministrythat God has given you in these
last days and how timely it is.

(01:05:30):
With the strategy of God movingpeople all around the world,
god puts a man of God like youin our hands, where you can help
to educate us, inform us andmake us better evangelists.
In these last days, I honor you, dr Azar.
Thank you for being with us.
It has been our great, greathonor.
Would you like to say goodbyeto everybody or greet everybody

(01:05:53):
one more time before we sign off?

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Speaking to what you said before, if we are not
involved in the multiculturalharvest, we are going to be
missing out, because this is thenew, this is the real harvest,
because all our cities are verydiverse, all Europe is very
diverse and, as you said, ifwe're going to just wait for

(01:06:22):
them just our culture, to walkinto the doors or receiving a
flyer and walk in, I think wehave been.
We will be waiting for a longtime.
The culture barrier is sopainful.
If I walk into any one of youand invite you to an event for a
Filipino group, are you goingto go without knowing anyone?
It's unlikely.
So I do believe that ourharvest is ready.
We need to adjust to it.

(01:06:44):
We need to be ready and I dobelieve that God is giving us
the grace, he's giving us theorganizational understanding
that we need to work togetherbetween multicultural ministry,
global missions, nam.
Everybody needs to worktogether so we can actually make
this happen.

(01:07:04):
The center that we are startingto minister to immigrants in
Detroit Metro, marhaba Center.
On the board of that center isa representative of NAM, detroit
Metro District, global Missionsand MCM.
We're working together in onegroup to sit our young people,

(01:07:25):
our apostolic and non-MuslimMuslims that we cannot go to.
We've got 30,000 Yemeni peoplein Detroit Metro but nobody can
go to Yemen they can go to.
We've got 30,000 Yemeni peoplein Detroit Metro but nobody can
go to Yemen.
They can go to Yemen.
So we have to start thinkingkingdom and I know you think
kingdom all the time and I dobelieve that we have one earth,

(01:07:46):
one global mission, one globalchurch, and if we're not
open-minded, we're still lookinggeography we're going to be
missing out on a great revival.
I'm so thankful for thisopportunity.
I wish anybody had a question.
Please find me through Facebookor through the links Brother

(01:08:07):
Robinette is going to put inwith the website, but my
ministry is to equip you toreach your harvest.
I'm here to serve you.
I'm thankful for theopportunity to share this and
there are so much resourcesthrough multicultural ministries
that are available to everyminister here that we are glad
to support you in your ministry.

(01:08:29):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Thank you, dr Azhar.
I was thinking, you know I lovekingdom verbiage, you know, and
as you were talking just nowand you were mentioning what God
is doing in Detroit and youbegan to talk about, you know,
we've got MCM, we've got youthministries, we've got global
missions, we've got NAM, we'vegot all these.

(01:08:52):
You know I love the partnershipof faith and, interestingly, as
you were talking today, it justjumped in my spirit and please
correct me if I'm wrong, but asyou were just talking and you
were revealing and teachingabout the individualist
mentality and the collectivementality, I would say please

(01:09:14):
correct me if I'm wrong, but Iwould say that the kingdom
culture is much more alignedwith the collective culture than
it is with the individualistculture.
Because when you look at theway that Jesus worked and you
look at the way that theyoperated, they operated in the
partnership of faith and theyyou had two by two and they,

(01:09:37):
they would go city to city andthey would.
They would work with theirgiftings in harmony and they
would work in their ministriesin harmony and they would.
They would sit down with peopleand break bread with people and
house to house with people, andand they did this daily.
The Bible said daily, house tohouse people.
And they did this daily.
The Bible said daily, house tohouse.
This is much more.

(01:09:57):
I see the Western culture andI'm Western.
Listen, don't be offended at me.
I am Western by birth, but I amthe partnership of faith and
kingdom by new birth and so, um.
So I do see the dangers of myown natural birth that creep up

(01:10:17):
every once in a while If I'm notcareful.
My individualist mentality, mythat, that that kind of
anti-collective ministry thingpops up every once in a while
because of my natural birth.
But it is absolutely inopposition to my spiritual birth
.
My spiritual birth is acollective kingdom.

(01:10:38):
My spiritual birth is apartnership kingdom.
My spiritual birth is a unitykingdom.
And I was thinking, you know,when we had that Muslim revival
in Austria, you know, we wereignorant of all of these
incredible points that you havemade.
But in ignorance, and maybe byspirit leading, but not by

(01:11:01):
information education, wethought okay, well, these
immigrants are in our community,they don't have money.
We knew that the nation ofAustria was basically giving
them 300 euro a month, providingthem housing and food, but they
could not work.
They had a five-year hiatus onunemployment, which was really

(01:11:22):
contributing to a lot of crimein the city.
Because they needed to dothings illegally to put food on
their tables, like you said,they had to blur the lines in
order to take care that theirloyalty was to the family.
So we would take our church tothe refugee camps in Austria and

(01:11:43):
go door to door, giving themgroceries, giving them baskets,
asking if there was what theywere going through.
Do you have anything we canpray for you?
We know that you're goingthrough a lot.
This transition is a lot.
You're dealing with challengesthat we can't even understand.
Can we pray for you?
And what I found, dr Azar, waswhen we went to these refugee

(01:12:06):
communities, nobody resisted us,nobody rejected us and nobody
turned us away.
When they would open the door,like you said, they would invite
us in.
But then somebody would goknock every family member's door
and all of a sudden we weresurrounded by 50 people in a
living room and and we had onlyknocked one door.

(01:12:27):
We knocked one door andeverybody came and um, and and
we would say, can we pray foryou?
And they'd say, yes, but youpray for grandma and grandpa and
you pray for the sons and thedaughters, and we would have to
go through the whole hierarchyfirst, then we prayed for the
children, then we prayed and itwas the most.
It was an incredible kingdomeducation.

(01:12:50):
But because we made time forthem, I remember one of the
Muslim families saying to us.
They said everybody else isafraid of us, everybody else
rejects us, but you show up andyou are here for us.
And we came as often as wepossibly could to those refugee

(01:13:11):
communities.
Our face became recognizable,our ministry became something
that was attractive to them.
Because we were there, becausewe cared, because we made
ourselves available, because wehad a patronage type of ministry
that we didn't even.
I didn't even know what till.
You said the word patronage, Idon't think I even knew what it
was.
So that's like one month oldI'm educated on patronage, but

(01:13:36):
we were doing it organically,just because we thought, man,
these people are going through alot.
And, dr Azar, people floodedour church, flooded our church
because we loved, we were there,we took time, we didn't rush,
we made ourselves available.

(01:13:57):
It didn't make sense on paper,it didn't make sense to our
individualist mentality andculture, but it seemed like it
was opening a door that no mancould shut.
So do you want to comment tothat, dr Azar, or am I just
running my mouth?

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
No, you're absolutely right and I encourage people to
give services to people aroundthem that they need it, because
the love and faith are thingsthat are inside of your heart
nobody can see.
But they were able to see thelove of God through your action.
And I know we have a philosophyhere in the US you don't want
to bring people for things.
I understand that.

(01:14:34):
But for immigrant andcollective communities you have
to understand that first, theyare lacking family if they're in
the US or Canada as immigrantsand they need that support.
And you can sanctify thatrelationship, the asymmetrical
relationship between you andthem, the patronage.
It's not friendship necessarily.

(01:14:54):
You are providing somethingthey cannot have and they cannot
thank you.
So hold what you need.
It gives them an opportunity toreciprocate, to keep that
relationship, by telling themhey, come to my church, let's
meet for Bible study.
These things will open a doordefinitely.
I think the Lord has guided youin that process.
I do believe this is a biblicalprinciple and I gave a couple

(01:15:18):
of examples.
I think it's underutilized umto to do patronage in north
america.
I also have to understand a lotof elephants have come south
america or africa.
They're used to churchessupporting them, not them
supporting the church.
So you also have to understandthey would like to come to
church and be benefactors, butthey have a way to give back.

(01:15:40):
They can paint the church, theycan clean the church, they can
protect the church, they canbring people to the church.
So it's not always we thinkthat you need to be a member and
you need to pay tithes and allthat.
They can contribute in otherways, that we need to allow them
to do that and that wouldenrich the church.
When we came to our church inAnn Arbor we were the second
nationality.

(01:16:00):
Now we have 22.
The collective people in everychurch will take care of the
collective people coming in.
I have a Chinese man came toour church and I said tell me
how we can reach the Chinese.
He said Americans cannot reachthe Chinese.
I said come on, bro, work withme.
He said you know who invited mehome in your church.
You, the Jordanian, thomas, theNigerian, joel, the Mexican.

(01:16:25):
These are the people whoinvited me home and that's why I
thought I can come and stay inthe church.
So if we reach collectives inour community, they will have
the collective culture and theywill embrace and become family
with other immigrants, and thisis how your ministry propagates
itself.
You don't have to do I almost.

(01:16:45):
We teach about hospitality forAmerican individualists, but
it's hard for them to do, but Idon't have to teach our Mexican,
our Honduran, our Albanian, ourNigerian.
They do it already.
Naturally, they're excited todo it.
So I think what they're missingon is we need to start with a

(01:17:08):
few and they will help eachother and create that culture,
and I do believe hospitality andfellowship are biblical.
They're needed and we, as anindividualist culture, lack
these things, and I think aharvest that is multicultural
can help us reach into thesecommunities and propagate our
message, even not just locally.

(01:17:28):
We propagate the gospelinternationally because when
they go home we started a churchin Torreon, mexico, from Ann
Arbor, because of the family ofpeople who come back.
We have a daughter worth nowofficially, and this is
something that should happeneasily because of the amount of
immigrants that we have in oursoil, in our neighborhoods Huge

(01:17:50):
potential.
I believe the UPC will tap intothis very soon, amen thank you,
dr czar.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Wow guys, I could like my brain.
I could run for hours talkingwith dr czar, but I certainly
want to be respectful ofeverybody's time.
But I I do want to say whatAzar just said about you know,
the giving nature of thisculture is so true.

(01:18:18):
I remember I literally I've gota movie theater running through
my mind right now of how manytimes that 10, 15, 20 Muslim
brethren would just show up atthe church on any Monday or
Tuesday, Wednesday, knock on thedoor and say, Pastor, what can

(01:18:39):
we do, what kind of work couldwe get done to help the church?
And they would stay in thechurch all day and sit in my
office.
They'd sit in my office inbetween working and we'd talk
for hours and we'd order pizzaand eat together and then they'd
get up and go paint 18 morewalls or something.

(01:18:59):
And you know it was so amazing.
They were so excited just to bea part of a collective
community that cared, and theypoured themselves in and loved
us as much as we loved them, andthey poured themselves in and
loved us as much as we lovedthem.
And even to this day I get textmessages from these brethren and

(01:19:21):
from these families who are nowspread all over the world and
still serving God in othercollective communities, and I'm
just thankful for what God isdoing through this multicultural
ministry, Dr and Sister Azar,and their passion for the
kingdom of God globally.
Pastor Ogie, would you mind ifI was just to spotlight you and

(01:19:43):
maybe you could just close usout in prayer.
Pray over our churches, nations, our leadership.
I'm going to spotlight you here.
Elder Pastor Ogie is a greatman of God from Wisconsin,
Pastor's a great church thereand just a wonderful, wonderful
man of God.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
He's going to pray for us today and then we'll wrap
this up, Brother Ogie, yes, sirLord Jesus, we love you and we
thank you so very much for allthat you're doing here in these
last days.
God, you're truly pouring outyour spirit on all flesh, god,
collectivist cultures,individualistic cultures, god,
and I'm praying that you wouldhelp us to reach those that are

(01:20:22):
like us, those that are not likeus, help us to understand
others and to reach the lost, inevery country of the world,
every continent of this world.
God, I am asking you to help usin these last days to reach
every soul that's hungry, everysoul that's thirsty for what we
have to offer, what you have tooffer God.
Out of their belly flowingrivers of living water, god, the

(01:20:45):
people of this world.
They need what you have tooffer, god, and we need to reach
them, and so I thank you forthis man of God today and what
he's imparted to us.
I pray that this would cause usto think throughout this week of
things that we can do in orderto reach people in our
communities, in the countries ofthis world and in the places

(01:21:05):
where you've planted us, god.
Let this just be a beginning inour mind of how we might be
able to further reach those thatwe're trying to communicate to
that we're trying to bless inthese communities, god, across
this world.
God, let it be something thatjust isn't what we heard here
right now, but something that wetake with us, god, and ruminate

(01:21:27):
on throughout this week, andthat we would try, god, to
implement strategies, and thatyou would give us divine wisdom
and ability to reach people inour communities, where you've
planted us, everywhere that weare.
God.
We thank you for what you'redoing.
We're believing you for a greatharvest, lord, like we have
never seen the likes of beforeGod, and we're asking you for

(01:21:49):
your help and divine wisdom inreaching the lost where you've
planted us.
In Jesus' name, Amen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Thank you, pastor Ogie, thank you, dr Azar.
Sister Azar, I'm going tospotlight you real quick.
I want everybody to see yourwonderful face.
This is Sister Azar, greatwoman of God.
She's going to be with usAugust 13th, 1 pm Eastern time,
for our second ApostolicMentoring Special Edition on

(01:22:15):
Multicultural Evangelism andwinning of those very distinct
Access Challenge Nation culturesaround our communities.
And so, sister Azar, we loveyou, can't wait to August 13th.
It's going to be beast mode.
Thank you for being with ustoday.
God bless you all.
We'll catch you on our nextepisode of Mentoring Session.

(01:22:39):
God bless you.
God bless you.