Episode Transcript
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Evan Troxel (00:11):
Podcast.
It's great to see you.
Israel Peña (00:12):
Oh, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Evan Troxel (00:15):
So Cormac is not in
on this yet, but I thought it would
be fun to do We're going to talkabout architecture, believe it or
Cormac Phalen (00:21):
Ooh.
Evan Troxel (00:22):
And the reason that
Israel is on the show, Israel
and I, we used to work together.
Israel is at the firmthat I used to be at.
And he's, how long haveyou been there now, Israel?
I
Israel Peña (00:32):
Just over 22 years.
Evan Troxel (00:35):
geez, I was going to say, I
know it's been a long time, but, but okay.
More than half of that time has beennot, not entirely, but been spent on
The project that we're going to talk
Israel Peña (00:48):
Yes.
Yes.
More than half of my HMC careerhas been on this project.
Cormac Phalen (00:55):
Interesting.
Evan Troxel (00:56):
And, and, okay.
So
Cormac Phalen (00:58):
having a
conversation similar to that.
Evan Troxel (01:00):
I would love Cormac for
you to pull out your crystal ball.
Right now.
Okay you kind of know, you know,what kind of projects HMC does.
I would
love you to guess what kindof project Israel has been
working on for since 2011, since
Cormac Phalen (01:18):
since 2011.
Okay.
Is it, could I do some 20 questions hereto kind of like zero in on it a bit?
Evan Troxel (01:27):
Okay,
first I want you to justgo cold, cold guess and
then you can play 20 questions.
So let's just see if you can, you know,
Cormac Phalen (01:35):
Cold guess.
I
mean, I would love to say somethingas, ridiculous as an elementary school.
And,
Evan Troxel (01:48):
And, and by the way, look at,
I'm pulling out the ArcaSpeak mug here.
This, this podcast Israel has been goingon slightly longer than your project,
Israel Peña (01:56):
Oh, wow.
Evan Troxel (01:59):
just barely.
Cormac Phalen (02:00):
yeah, yeah, so
I, I can commiserate
Evan Troxel (02:04):
noises?
Why are you making those noises?
Cormac Phalen (02:06):
because sadly
I, I, I can, I can feel the
pain that the smile is hiding.
Mm,
Israel Peña (02:17):
Oh,
which,
Evan Troxel (02:18):
of architecture right here.
Israel Peña (02:19):
which
I think it was one of your,one of your recent podcasts.
You talked about those projects thatare just so exhausting and tiring and
stressful, but at the end of it, yourealized, how incredible of a project
it was and how much you miss it.
So I was listening to one ofyour podcasts and that just was
incredibly relevant to this one.
Cormac Phalen (02:41):
we were trying to
explain to one of our newer hires about
a project that we're working on rightnow, and I was actually corrected.
The project started in 2015and we're I think 2015.
Yeah, 2015.
(03:02):
And it will finish up athird quarter of 2026.
So not as long as yours, but itis one of those, like long process
and they're like, how do youstay sane on a project like that?
So let me ask you, how do youstay sane on a project like that?
Israel Peña (03:20):
Well, for me, running.
Honestly,
Cormac Phalen (03:22):
Running from the project.
Israel Peña (03:24):
yeah,
running for the project.
That is one of, one of the things thatI'm very passionate about is running.
My fitness health and fitness hasalways been a Big part of my life.
You know, I've done over 28 marathons, two
full Ironmans, half a dozenor more, half Ironmans.
And, you know, you name it, I've done it.
And really after a stressfulday of work I go and I run.
(03:47):
And even at work, when I workedat, when I was, this is before
pre pandemic and before Beverly,before I, Spent more time off site.
I would actually spend my lunchat HMC running, we had a gym
there and that's what I did.
I just, I ran.
That was my therapy and that's the onlyway that I could get through some of
(04:09):
those, those incredibly difficult days.
But it was definitely my fitness.
Cormac Phalen (04:14):
I
Evan Troxel (04:15):
Yeah, great answer.
And I'm glad you brought up the IronMan thing and the marathon thing because
that's an incredible accomplishment.
If you had to guess, like, I don'twant to ask how many miles you've run.
I don't know if you know that, but
how many pairs of shoes have you gone
Israel Peña (04:30):
Oh
my gosh, I go through, I gothrough, you know, the, every
pair of shoes is 200 miles.
And I can easily, I can get200 miles during peak training.
Um, You know, every threemonths, two to three months, I'm
constantly going through shoes.
And that's one of the, that's one of thereasons I do it is to prevent injury.
(04:53):
I know that I have a lot of friendsthat just, they don't want to spend
the money because they're not cheap.
So they're they just, untilthey're falling apart, that's
when they get rid of them.
But as soon as I feel anything,whether it's a little, something
in my knee, something in mylower back something in my calf.
It's like, okay, time to throwout those shoes and get a new
pair.
So, um, but yeah I gothrough a lot of shoes.
Cormac Phalen (05:18):
have a friend who was
in architecture and wasn't, didn't seem
as passionate about it as, we, clearlyare, at least just in the fact that,
like, it was always kind of like wearinghim down and he was a runner, he was
a cross country runner and everythingelse and, ran in college and then ended
(05:41):
up quitting it and becoming an eliterunner where, Now he's, ranked, in
his age group in now forties and like,in the top, whatever, like 20 and, he
just, he always, yes, I should continueto keep running, but I've, I'm running
from like, ice cream trucks and thingslike that but he's, he he's that's
(06:02):
one of his things is he used, he goesthrough shoes, like nobody's business.
I mean, he's always posting.
It's just like, welcome the new pair.
It's just like welcoming a new baby.
It's like welcoming the new pair.
And it's, it literally is probablylike, one every two months at best.
not more.
Israel Peña (06:17):
and those runners,
elite runners are not wearing
those shoes are expensive.
Those are, those arereally expensive shoes.
I, I, I.
won't
spend that unless I'm doing a, arace where I'm trying to qualify for
something, but I'm not there anymore.
That was back 10 years ago.
Cormac Phalen (06:34):
I watched him on just
a local 10K and he and the front
runners, they sprinted the entire 10K.
I'm like, how do you maintain thatlevel of intensity for that long?
And it's just it just dumbfounded me.
Okay.
Israel Peña (06:57):
that I ever ran, um,
was actually my fastest was Ojai.
But I don't count that as my fastest,even though I had the better time.
Best, I, That I'm most proudof is the LA Marathon because
it is a challenging course.
It isn't flat.
They kind of advert, they market it asa downhill run, but it really isn't.
(07:20):
There are so many hills and so manyclimbs that it's really challenging,
but that's 1 of my best times.
And it was my, my, my time was 306.
So my miles were about 706, 707 pace,
which, I mean, I was just,Incredibly excited to get that.
I was really hoping to try toget a sub three hour marathon,
(07:41):
but I just, I never got there.
It's just, it's a whole different level.
Cormac Phalen (07:46):
Just the fact that
you can say, you ran a marathon in
general, but as many as you have andthe, Ironman and the half, marathons
and half, Ironman and stuff like that.
That's, it was funny that I was justhaving this conversation about, somebody
saying, you, you do a lot of things,you teach, you podcast, you do this.
(08:07):
And then, you have the full timejob and you just like, yeah, you
all the training that you're doing.
Yeah.
You just put me to shame there.
Yeah.
You just bested me.
Israel Peña (08:17):
Yeah.
What's interesting about the mileage,although I don't know how many miles I've
I've run overall, I easily hit 2000 a yearUm, but that was, that was a while ago.
But the last couple years, specificallybecause of this Beverly Hills project
I spent a lot of time in BeverlyHills and I actually was living in
(08:39):
Beverly Hills, most of the week becauseI, I was required to be on site.
And so I spent.
There are more miles on my feet than therewere on my vehicle in the last couple
of years, in the last two, three years.
So, you know, Garmintracks everything, right?
I track all my mileage, mywalking, my running, and then,
(09:03):
the odometer on my truck.
I put in more miles on my Garminthan I did in my my vehicle.
Evan Troxel (09:11):
That's crazy.
Israel Peña (09:11):
Yeah, that's pretty insane.
Evan Troxel (09:13):
So, so speaking
of marathons, right?
Like that's what this,
that's what, look at that segue.
Cormac Phalen (09:18):
mouth.
I was going to, that's how,that was my segue, dang it.
Hmm.
Evan Troxel (09:25):
mean, and the demands of
a project that goes on for this long.
And maybe you can just give kindof an overview of this project.
Project.
I will preempt that and say Ilooked back through some of my
old design files because I was onthe team that pursued this client
and we, and it was, like, like you'vealready alluded to Beverly Hills.
(09:47):
So it's a, it's the school districtin Beverly Hills for K 12 and this,
I believe this was a K 8, wasn't it?
They have quite a few K8sand the whole district had to
be modernized at some point.
And so we were, we didn'tknow what we were going after.
Everybody was going after somethingwho was in the pool, basically
to be in the pool of architects.
And I looked at the dates on the filesand it was January of 2011 that we
(10:11):
presented to the school district, whichthen precipitated the project that
Israel's going to tell us about now.
So jump in.
Israel Peña (10:22):
So the project did
start off as a K 8, but during,
actually after DSA approval, it the,district went through an educational
reconfiguration and it became a K 5.
So it did become an elementary school.
So it didn't start off as one, butit became one after DSA approval.
But it's essentially 118, 000square feet of, of buildings.
(10:45):
It's five building unitsthat are all connected.
So it's almost like one massive building.
And, with part of the component being amajor historic rehabilitation, uh, seismic
retrofit, and as well as a modernization.
So there was multiple things goingon at the same time, and each one
could have been a standalone it's abeautiful 1927 Revival at least the
(11:12):
historic components are Spanish Revivalbuilding designed by Austin, Ashley,
and Hudson beautiful, gorgeous, ornatefacade with the belfry and beautiful
stone facades Terracotta tile.
I mean, it was, it'sjust a stunning building.
So 3 of the buildings are registeredas, are identified as historic buildings
(11:32):
and 2 were built in the 60s and arenot but but they're all interconnected,
but we pretty much, as part of themodernization we have touched every
square inch of that building, everysquare inch of the exterior, every
interior, and including The entireexterior, every surface has been touched.
(11:52):
There there's really nothingthat we didn't touch as part of
this modernization, but it didn'tstart off as that, you know,
when, when Evan first worked onit, I mean, it was just, the budget
was only 22 million back then.
And the major concern back then wasthe seismic retrofit portion of it
that was really, that's what triggeredthe modernization and as, as well as
(12:13):
aging infrastructure, just the systemswere just very antiquated and old.
And also the reality that theyreally hadn't done any major
improvements to the interior ofthose classrooms in, in a long time.
And they were in dire need,but we had to do a lot.
With 22 million and itjust wasn't working.
It just, it just
(12:35):
wasn't enough money, get all of that
Cormac Phalen (12:37):
I love how states
or even like local jurisdictionslove to stretch that, you know,
that dollar as far as you can go.
And, when it's faced with the realityof, they're asking for, the 10
pounds of program that, you know, andfit it into that five pounds, bag.
And you're just like,it's just not working.
(12:58):
It's just, you're, you're not able toget all of it in there, but yet, then at
the end of the day, when the budget comesby and they're like, Hmm, so yeah, what
are we going to get cut off of this one?
Evan Troxel (13:08):
Yeah.
Cormac Phalen (13:08):
sounds like you went the,
you know,
Evan Troxel (13:11):
Well,
that's how it started.
That was
definitely the conversationthat was going on back then.
And I think just to kind of setthe stage of where we started.
It was like all hands on deck, full team,on site, with la okay, remember, 2011.
Laptops, and Revit,
Israel Peña (13:27):
early Revit,
Evan Troxel (13:28):
Revit 2010 or tw 2009,
where all the buttons went down the side.
There wasn't even a ribbon yet.
And actually did an asbuilt model of the campus.
with, I don't know, five or six or tenpeople, and really crawling through
every nook and cranny and exploring.
I mean, it was very Atlas Obscura, Cormac.
(13:49):
There, if you go up into the belltower, it was filled with graffiti
on the inside and everybody hadtagged it and signed their name, like
the students had all snuck up therewhenever they could and signed their
name as like part of the school, right?
And, um, There was just a lot ofreally cool little things to find
out about this place as you kind
of, as we explored through it, but alsomodeled it so that we could do the kind
(14:12):
of feasibility study that was reallyneeded that hadn't, because nobody
truly knew what existed there, right?
They didn't know the true stateof what everything was in.
Um, I remember even like crawling throughthe attic of the auditorium, right?
Like up into like the performingarts kind of room space and
crawling through this trust space.
(14:33):
And just, it was just insanelykind of haunted feeling up there.
It was just, it really had not been.
Not much had been done in,quite a very long time.
So, I mean, that just kind of givesyou a little bit of the picture of
where we started with this project.
And then we ultimately kind ofjust established a, what we thought
(14:54):
was going to be the feasibility,like what was going to happen.
And we presented that, I thinkin like October of that year.
And.
And nobody foresaw this projecttaking 13 years to complete.
Nobody, but at the same time, nobody knewwhere it was going because clearly kind
of the scope and the budget were not welldefined, but also you could tell they were
(15:16):
going to be at odds for quite a while.
Cormac Phalen (15:18):
So I've worked on
projects that sound almost identical
in the fact that they've got historiccomponents, you've got addition,
later additions that aren't reallypart of like the contributing factor
to the historic fabric, but arethings that you need to do, either a
modernization or revitalization to.
(15:38):
And
then Selective Editionsand things like that.
And, and they, and those projects,I will definitely say, take a while.
And, one that I had that was, conformed.
I
had to conform to the Department ofInterior historic standards because it was
in downtown historic Annapolis, Maryland,
(16:00):
Which is the state capitol.
it it took seven, it was aseven year project, and This
is kind of a loaded questionbecause I sort of know the answer,
but I'm also kind of curious,
Israel Peña (16:12):
the answer
Cormac Phalen (16:13):
13 years?
Israel Peña (16:14):
I'm also kind of curious.
Why did you Politics andbutch No, honestly, it,
Cormac Phalen (16:21):
sort of knew that that
was good where you were going, but
Israel Peña (16:24):
know,
again, it was very difficult forthe board to go back to their
current To the community and say,we need another bond and we need
more money to really do this right.
And the board was divided, some of themknew what needed to be done and others
just, they didn't, they didn't want togo back and try to issue another bond.
(16:45):
The, so it was challengingbecause of that.
And so.
You know, we did, they did increasethe budget throughout the years.
So it went from 22 million, then itwent up to 42 million, then up to 50,
50 plus, but it still wasn't enough.
One of the things that was happeningwas, one of the, one of our, One
(17:08):
of the other campuses startedthe whole modernization process.
It was Horace Mann.
It was one of the other K 8s.
That was kind of like the guinea pig.
They were, they were,they started off first.
Evan Troxel (17:18):
was the first
Israel Peña (17:18):
That was
Evan Troxel (17:19):
one that we did the design
kind of like a that was part of the
presentation was showing the design forthat campus and what we would do there.
So I can totally see why they did that onefirst, because everybody kind of knew it.
And that one had a headstart.
Israel Peña (17:30):
So they started
construction and then.
Of course, with 100 year oldbuildings, as soon as you
start demolition, what happens?
You find things,
unforeseen conditions,you've, yeah, exactly.
And that's what they werediscovering is all these issues.
And the program manager at thattime was really trying to stick to
(17:50):
the budget as much as they could.
And so they were really workinghard to stay within budget, even
though things kept coming up andthey just had to spend more money.
And at the end of the project did whatthey could, and then they realized
we really should have spent the moneyto do all these other things, because
then those other things became issues.
(18:12):
Like, for
example, the roof.
they, there are certain parts,I'm not exactly sure, but it had
something to do with the roofing.
They had a major rain event, and allof a sudden the roofs were leaking,
and all the work they'd done on theinteriors was starting to get damaged.
So, um,
I think that really Opened up the eyesof the board and other individuals
that it's like, we, if we're goingto do this, we got to do it right.
(18:35):
But, Again, there were a lot of otherpolitics involved and, I mean, the,
just the change in leadership on the.
On the district side, constant andso it was hard to get everybody on
board and get everybody up to speed.
And then finally, in 2000, I wantto say 2000, was it 2018 or 2000.
(18:58):
2017, 2018, a new program managercame in and really just said, if
you guys want to do this right,this is what you have to do, and
this is the money you need to spend.
And that's when thingsreally started going.
And
that's, that's, that's what that'swhere we were able to finally get into
construction and try to get this done.
Evan Troxel (19:19):
How
long was that school closeddown during this process?
Israel Peña (19:23):
Oh, I
believe they closed down.
I might be off by a year.
So in 2000.
18, was it 2018 or 2017 was the lastyear that students were in that building.
And so, you know, almost 7, yeah, almost
7 with no students, 67 yearsthat students weren't there.
(19:46):
Originally, the original planwas to have a phased program.
And so, interim housing was everywhere,and it just, when we think about
what we had to go through withoutstudents on campus, would have
just been absolutely impossible.
There's just no waythat would have worked.
But one of the things that, that,that was happening in the district
was they do, they are experiencingdeclining enrollment, and so one of
(20:11):
the campuses was, Almost vacant, sothey were able to take all the El Rodeo
students and take them over to HawthorneElementary, which is down the road.
And and again, with the restructuringgoing from K 8 to K 5, they now had
some some better efficiencies withnot duplication of so much staff
and needing different campuses.
(20:31):
So, it helped consolidatesome of the programs they had.
So, it helped that process.
being able to shift all thestudents from El Rodeo onto
another campus because of that.
So it did help.
Cormac Phalen (20:43):
How, what was the
size of the student body there?
Israel Peña (20:47):
So at El Rodeo at that
time, it was about between 7 and 800.
Cormac Phalen (20:52):
Okay, you said it
was hundred thousand square feet?
Israel Peña (20:54):
It's 118, 000
square feet of building.
Yeah, Yeah.
Cormac Phalen (20:59):
Yeah, I can,
I'm just, I've worked through,
numerous like phase while occupied
Just the nightmare, of going throughall of that in the multiple different
like phasing plans and life safetyplans that you have to do to, get that
project to work is kind of insane.
But a lot of times.
(21:21):
For schools that big and with a largestudent population, that you almost have
to convince them you've got to get thekids out of there and, do something else.
Cause it, it just becomes unruly.
Israel Peña (21:35):
And it was,
and it's a small site.
It's 12 acres, less than 6 12 acres.
So it's a really tight site.
So even with the constructioncrews, was tight.
I mean, there was very
little room to, lay down areas andall the trailers that people needed
and our construction trailers as well.
We ended up getting moved around from,from place to place just because we
(21:56):
needed, okay, now we need to, we'removing into this phase, get out, move on,
move on to the other side of the campus.
And eventually we ended up occupyingpart of the administration building
towards the tail end of it.
Evan Troxel (22:09):
So when the school
actually shut down fully when
then did construction begin?
So was there a gap therebefore construction started
or did it start right then?
Israel Peña (22:19):
Well, I, I, I believe there
was a little bit of a gap because we were
going through DSA approval, but in 2019 iswhen we officially kicked off So, I think
we had, so, no, I think students werethere up until the 2018, 2019 school year,
and then in 2019, it shut down and thenwe started construction in that August.
(22:42):
So, let
Evan Troxel (22:43):
and, and if I can't remember
when, like the actual design phase, like
not, let's not call it like conceptualdesign, even part of this conversation.
Like what, when did schematic design?
Start like year wise, like just, I'mjust kind of tracking this 2011 to 2018.
That's a seven year design phase.
(23:04):
Right.
I mean, and there was all kinds ofroller coaster going on during that
time with the politics and withthe money and with all this stuff,
but like, how long was it actually?
in SD, DDC, you know, like
actually in, in
the model.
Cormac Phalen (23:21):
And before you answer
that, so I want to add on how many
design, redesign, re redesign,
and things like that happen becauseI can, I can see, because I've lived
those kind of like, oh, it's taken
you to how long to design it And
it usually is the design, redesign,re redesign, the, you know how
(23:43):
it's like when you look at thosefiles, it's just like final
final point two, final, point,you know, like final, final,
Evan Troxel (23:50):
final.
Really?
No, really this time.
Yeah.
Cormac Phalen (23:53):
so, sorry.
Israel Peña (23:54):
So fine, so the
date that I, that's like right in
front of me, it's final schematicdesign package was June of 2014.
So June of 2014 was when the the final
Evan Troxel (24:09):
they approved
Israel Peña (24:10):
when they
approved the schematic
Evan Troxel (24:11):
then it actually went into
Israel Peña (24:13):
DD.
Cormac Phalen (24:14):
So, let me ask you,
the final approved schematic design,
what did that, was that what was,
made it
Evan Troxel (24:25):
they did.
Cormac Phalen (24:25):
basically,
you know, your bid set?
I figured, yeah.
Israel Peña (24:31):
No.
So what happened was that after theschematic design was put together, Was
approved, then the discussion startedcoming in from the district side that the
interim district facilities director atthat time wanted to explore the seismic
mitigation program through DSA, the SMPR
program.
And so, you know, that was an opportunityto go after additional funding.
(24:55):
Because there were, there was theseismic retrofit component, then they
thought, well, let's pursue those funds.
And so there was a shift.
So we shifted gears at that point.
And then we really started to look atthe project from a seismic perspective
and looking at all the requirementsfor the, this procedure through DSA.
And so that started, thatreally triggered even more.
(25:18):
Changes, because all, going into amandatory seismic retrofit, there
were very specific things that youneeded to do to the building, right?
And each one of thoseimpacted the historic parts of
the building.
And so that budget just, that's when itreally started increasing, because now
you were following this mandatory program.
(25:40):
And and so that, that reallychanged the project completely.
Oh,
Evan Troxel (25:49):
the Process and just kind
of thinking about all the materials
that we just continue to provideuntil schematic designs were actually
approved.
I mean, it was volumes and volumesand volumes of work, right?
And the reason I'm kind of, it's,It's crazy that it took this long.
And then you've talked about politicsand we talked about all the design
(26:09):
changes and we've talked about, onceyou kind of crack the walls open,
it's like, oh, there's stuff in there.
There's all these things.
And I think that it's justimportant to kind of keep in mind.
And you've mentioned DSA.
I think a lot of our listeners probablydon't even know what DSA is, right?
Might be good to define what DSAis and kind of explain how it
works in California with schools.
But yeah.
There's just a lot of moving parts here.
(26:30):
And I don't think anybody goes to schoolthinking that any of this is part of
quote unquote architecture, right?
Like, architecture is justdesigning buildings, right?
And I bring it up as, like,all these moving parts because,
like, you're actually involvedand you've been involved.
personally involved in a lot of thatfor so long as the project manager
(26:51):
of the project and just being theorchestrator of everything that has
to happen internally with the internaldesign team, but also externally with
all these other pieces to the puzzle.
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(28:39):
And now back to the conversation.
Israel Peña (28:42):
DSA was very challenging.
So, for those people, for those of youthat don't know what DSA is, it's the
division of the state architect, andit's the state agency that all school
projects and community college districtsgo through for plan approval for schools.
And, so we went through.
We initially submitted intoDSA in 2015, no, 2016, early
(29:05):
2016 was our first submittal.
And we were going in as aseismic mitigation project.
And so we were following thatprocess which has, which is
different from a regular submittal.
There's like these veryspecific phases that you have to
follow and you submit a phase.
You you submit your project, you geta concurrence or acceptance letter
(29:28):
from DSA, and then you move on tothe next phase, and then you keep
doing that until you actually get towhat is the typical, traditional DSA
submittal at for any school project.
So you have to go through allthese phases before you go
into the actual DSA submittal.
Um, and then after that,then you go through OPSC for
the funding portion of it.
(29:49):
So we started off that way.
And we submitted, and we were goingthrough the plan review process,
and, you have your access, you haveyour structural life, your structural
reviewer and your fire life safety.
So you have your 3 disciplines.
And so we're going through theprocess you wait for comments, you
get the comments back, like everyplan check and you pick them up.
Well, What happened for this projectwas there was a change in the structural
(30:14):
reviewer, so the structural re so thestructural reviewer that reviewed all
the, in the previous initial phasesor tiers of the s and p program.
You know, the one that says, Iagree with your direction, I agree
with your approach, move forward.
That reviewer.
Was changed to somebodycompletely different.
(30:35):
And so again, we've already gone throughthis process and we've gotten concurrence
letters from the state saying, like,yeah, we're in agreement in your approach.
Go.
We've submitted the project.
We've designed the entire project andit goes to a new reviewer and this
reviewer comes back and says, Time out.
I disagree.
(30:55):
I don't agree with this.
So we literally had to pull back andredesign our structural systems because
the, because this reviewer didn't agreewith the original concurrence from DSA.
So we almost had, I mean, for themost part, a lot of the modernization
components and some of the historic partsthat we did were stayed the same, but
(31:16):
structurally, there were a lot of changes.
So we had to go back.
and start over again.
So that was our second submittal.
So now we're going through thisgoing right getting our waiting for
comments for this next round andwe're dealing with our reviewers and
we had some of those most challengingreviewers that you could get at DSA.
Then this is taking so long thatnow this funding component that
(31:37):
was out there through the state wasdisappearing and we were seeing those
dollars just dwindle and we werethe district was just wanting this.
process to go quicker because youhad to get in line for this money.
And then we
realized, Yeah.
we realized, oh, we'renot going to get it.
So, so we need to pull out.
(31:59):
So,
Cormac Phalen (32:00):
Yeah.
And when projects take that long, you sortof are like you get kicked to the side.
You're just like, you got to goback to the line and, get there
with your plate out and say,
Evan Troxel (32:12):
You got to be
done, done You got tobe done to get in line.
Cormac Phalen (32:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Israel Peña (32:18):
so, so we had to pull
out and go, okay, if there is no more
funding to go through this mandatoryseismic program, why are we going to
spend all this money to do this whenwe're not going to get anything back?
So we had to basicallypull it back and start.
Again, structurally and say, okay, we'renot doing it as a mandatory program.
(32:38):
We're not doing it as a voluntary.
And what does that mean?
So, so that was our third resubmittal.
And so that was our 3rd submission and,we finally got it through DSA approval.
And then after DSA approval, the districtmade the educational program change from a
K 8 to a K 5, so once we got DSA approved.
(33:01):
It's almost like wehad to start over again
Cormac Phalen (33:04):
Yeah,
Israel Peña (33:04):
and this, and they increased
there was a lot of a lot more scope
that was introduced into the project.
So there were 4 major revisions once westarted the whole DSA approval process.
Cormac Phalen (33:15):
so let me ask you
this because the length of the
design process, not just the 13years of the overall project, but
the design process took so long.
How many times,
this was, prior to submitting for permitand how many times did the building
(33:35):
building codes change that you had to,Either, potentially redo everything.
Israel Peña (33:41):
We actually
were really lucky on that.
We started off under the 2013 CBC,and we remained as the 2013 CBC.
it
didn't, it did.
DSA did not did not make us
Evan Troxel (33:56):
They didn't
Israel Peña (33:57):
didn't require us to
go to the current code.
Evan Troxel (33:59):
That's
Cormac Phalen (33:59):
Interesting.
Israel Peña (34:00):
But I mean, I will say
that there were a lot of things that
we did that met current code anyway,
but, but, but still it was, it wasapproved under the 2013 CBC, even
though it was DSA approved in 2019.
Evan Troxel (34:13):
Wow.
Cormac Phalen (34:14):
I've been caught a
couple of times in the transition
between codes and they're like, well,you haven't submit for permit yet.
So guess what?
We've now adopted, IBC 2015.
And so, you've got to do that one now.
You're like, and then you dothe whole assessment of like,
all right, what has changed?
What is applicable still?
And, and then go through thatwhole process, which I know you
(34:35):
know what I'm talking about.
Evan Troxel (34:39):
I have, I have at
least three more topics that
I still want to get to here.
So,
Cormac Phalen (34:43):
I have one.
Evan Troxel (34:44):
and I'm sure you do.
So, so you go first.
I, and I'm going to try tokeep this moving so that this
isn't a four hour podcast.
But there's a lot
to talk about still.
Cormac Phalen (34:53):
so one of the things in,
I've experienced this, so I'm just kind
of curious about what you've experienced.
The historic building,you started opening it up.
What kind of fun skeletons did you find?
Because, I'd love to trade warstories about like, Ooh, what's
inside your bag of tricks?
Israel Peña (35:12):
the, the immediate one
was the, as soon as the plaster came
off those walls and some of thosewalls, the hollow clay tile, it
Cormac Phalen (35:21):
Yes.
Yeah.
Israel Peña (35:22):
And, you know,
Evan Troxel (35:24):
seismic tile.
That's called seismic tile.
It's like, it's great.
It's a fantastic building material.
Cormac Phalen (35:31):
We, we had Terracotta
hollow clay, Terracotta tiles
as the, one of the load bearing.
And so they moved, all of the lockers out,and this was in one of the 1930 editions.
And so they moved all of the lockersout of the way, and they had all of
this, glazed tile down the corridorthat, they started to peel away.
(35:54):
Well, they peeled away a little bit, andI'm talking about like 70 or 80 linear
feet of the, of all of this glazed tile.
Came off, but what it did was it tookthe, like, if you got the block, it took
half of the fit of the block with it.
And so essentially when it, whenthe set 70 linear feet fell,
(36:19):
it, you had half a block for 70linear feet of a bearing wall.
You're like, good luck with that.
Israel Peña (36:27):
much there Was.
And now looking back at the asbuilts or the record drawings that
we had, again, they were really weak.
I mean, they were just,I mean, very limited.
Now we understand Why thosewalls look like they didn't plan?
Because at first, therewas really wasn't a legend.
And so we really didn't understandwhat we were looking at, other
than, well, it looks like a concretewall, cast in place concrete.
(36:49):
Okay.
But as soon as the the plastercame off and we saw that
they were hollow clay tiles.
Now that now we understood, oh, thatactually was a little different.
It, that's where all the hollow clay
tile was.
And so we basically had to removeevery square inch of hollow
clay tile and replace it withmetal stud framing everywhere.
So a lot of the walls that we didn'tthink we were going to have to
(37:10):
rebuild, we had to rebuild throughoutthe interior of those buildings.
We are
Cormac Phalen (37:15):
unforeseen conditions
of, existing buildings when you're
trying to do a renovation, andespecially when it gets into historic,
it's just amazing how, where a lotof your money in the budget goes.
Those, yeah.
Israel Peña (37:32):
We spent a lot of energy in
the auditorium, a lot of time and energy.
Evan, if you're ever down here, man,I, you need to see this auditorium.
It's just, it's beautiful.
It's gorgeous.
It's stunning.
Evan Troxel (37:43):
It's absolutely
incredible with that lowering,
Israel Peña (37:46):
that line shaft.
Uh, uh, it's just, it's so awesome.
It's really, Honestly, it's user friendly.
I was, I learned how touse it and I was able to.
So in the video that we didfor the, for that project, that
was me navigating that and, you
know, bringing it up, takingit down, changing the lights.
It was pretty amazing.
Um, but in that auditorium, because of thehistoric component, one of the character
(38:10):
defining features of the auditoriumwas actually the floor slope, right?
So,
and it wasn't accessible, or partsof it weren't accessible, but per
DSA, we had to make it accessible.
So we were really being strategic asto how much of that floor slope we
impacted by putting in a little bitof a ramp to just make it compliant.
(38:32):
And so we spent so much energy designingthis thing and making and trying to
preserve as much of that, that, that.
That original floor slope.
So then they start arelooking underneath the slab.
They were, we were doing some We wereunderneath the stage and we were running
some utilities underneath it and wewere able to crawl under, under it.
(38:53):
And we saw that it wasn't being supported.
So it was supposed to be a slab ongreat condition, and our structural
engineer and I were under there, orseveral of us were under there, and she,
she basically said this can't happen.
And so we literally had to, we endedup Demoing that for the entire floor,
(39:13):
redesigning it report it and put theproper, because even the supports
that slab had, they weren't there.
There are some that weren'teven attached and it just is.
It was pretty.
And this is during construction,and we had to hurry up and,
you know, we were trying to meetour schedule, and in the midst of
it, we had to basically redesignit and re pour the whole thing.
(39:36):
And so all that effort that we spenttrying to preserve as much of that
character defining floor slab, it justwe had to re demo it and start over
Evan Troxel (39:46):
Oh my
Israel Peña (39:46):
Yeah, it was, yeah, so,
and that, you know, that happened
a lot throughout the building.
Evan Troxel (39:53):
you, you
talked about that space
and I'm curious, like, what And maybethat space is the answer, but like, what
are you most proud of with this project?
Is it, is it just the, try not to think,think of the whole thing in total.
I know this is like an incrediblefeat of architecture to have done this
whole thing and to touch everything.
There's some piece of it though,that really stands out to you.
Israel Peña (40:14):
That ceiling in the
auditorium and the dome, the dome the dome
is the one that kept me up at night a lot.
It's how do you document that and knowingthat whole thing needs to come down
and you need to rebuild it and makeit look exactly like it was before.
How do you do it?
I mean, we were trying
Evan Troxel (40:34):
paint a picture of what that
dome looks like so people can kind of get
a picture in their brain because I if youSay dome it's like you could mean like
some giant like hundred foot dome or youcould mean what you're actually gonna say
Israel Peña (40:45):
it's I wish I could
show you better pictures but it's.
I can't even, I honestly, I don't evenknow the dimensions of the diameter of
the the dome, but it's this beautifuldome that sits on top of this belfry.
It's this octagonal tower.
And so we have this domethat's just covered in tile.
And it has these eight segments of veryspecific geometry and colors of tile that
(41:11):
needed to be that needed to be replicated.
So, how do you, we, so that, the reasonthat dome had to come down is because
the interior, the structure that wassupporting it was resting and falling
apart, and we were trying to figureout, is there any way to encapsulate it?
So it can stop, the two, so it doesn'tfall apart and we don't have any
more It doesn't deteriorate and juststructurally, our structural engineer is
(41:36):
like, no, that, that has to come down.
So, because of that, everything on topof it had to come down because there
wasn't any way to actually supportthe plaster above it, and all the tile
that was on top of it, plus the cupolathat was sitting on top of the dome.
And so trying to figure out whatthe actual construction was.
(41:57):
And what that thickness of that assemblywas that rested on that octagon and just
getting the right, um, radius for thecurvature of the dome and just all those
things in just the number of tiles, thesize of tiles, the spacing of the tile.
It's just like, how do you do it?
(42:17):
Like, how do you actually do it?
So, one of the things that we had wasearly on during the non destructive
testing portion of the investigations thatwe were doing, the district hired this
company called GB Geotechnical USA, Inc.
And so they did a lot of, they did alot of non destructive testing for us.
They did they did orthophotography, theydid a scanning they did thermal imaging.
(42:41):
I, they did a lot of like alot of cool things that I've
never done before in my life.
And now it's, I can saythat, that I've done it.
But one of the things that they didis they scanned the entire tower and
just to from a historic perspective,in case something happened, right?
If there was this major earthquakeand it all collapsed, at least we
have record of what that was, notthat we were going to build off of
(43:03):
it, but at least you have that record.
So, one of the things that we wereable to do is we were able to take
that model, and I don't rememberthe file format that they gave us.
It was a little bit odd because we hada difficult time bringing it into Revit,
but we were able to bring it into Revit.
We were able to kind of figure out whatthe outer radius of the dome was, and
(43:26):
we found that it wasn't, it wasn't just,center, here's your center point, and it
just goes from the center and it goes out.
No, actually, the radius was, theywere, kind of crisscross like this.
And so it was really weird.
And so when we were doing thedrawings, it just looked wrong.
It's just like, this isn't right, but,taking the scan and bringing in and
(43:47):
overlaying it with our Revit model andour, even just doing like 2d sections,
I mean, that's, that's the radius.
And that was our centerpoint that it was telling us.
But then when we added the, when we addedthe cupola on top of it, it made sense.
It really did look just like the original.
Dome, but without it,it just looked wrong.
(44:07):
It just didn't look likethat perfect spherical shape.
And I always
Cormac Phalen (44:12):
So you were talking
about like in, I know from experience
that, a lot of times when you're doing
historic buildings, from thetwenties on back, That the.
the existing drawings aren't reallyreliable or non existent or whatever.
And I always found kind of excitementin a way in almost trying to play
(44:39):
detective, play sleuth and figureout how things go together when you
don't have all of that information.
And especially if you're doing nondestructive testing and surveying.
because, you really don't knowsome of the things that are,
you know, hiding
behind the walls when you'regoing through that whole process.
And, just kind of curious from,like, what are some of the fun
(45:01):
things that like you were doing tokind of almost learn how things were
done back then so that you cando them now in modern ways.
Israel Peña (45:13):
So, the support at the dome,
that was one of the things that we were
unsure how it actually was supported.
One of the, one of the thingsthat was missing is this, the
infamous detail sheet number eight.
So, this
was the detail this was, this was thedetail sheet that was for all, for the
dome and specifically for the stone.
(45:35):
That was the challenging part istrying to figure out, well, how is
this all being supported and anchored?
And.
Now, for the dome, we did have anopportunity to climb into it and kind
of see what was happening, but a lotof it was covered in plaster, so you
couldn't actually see the connection.
And so, again, as part of the thedemolition and the removal of some
(45:59):
of the plaster, it revealed that thedetails that were there didn't really
apply, and some of the connectionsthat were there actually didn't exist.
So, Even though that octagon that wasthere that was, that should have remained
in place, once we removed that dome off ofit that whole octagon was also impacted.
(46:21):
So all that support base alsohad to be removed and taken off
just because, It needed the domein order to keep it in place.
So then we had to go back and redesignour structure and figure out how to
extend our steel to go all the way downto the actual cast in place concrete
(46:41):
portion of the substrate of the tower.
and then go outward and try tofigure out, okay, what can we do?
Because we can't go beyondthis radius of the dome, right?
And we have to work with the limitationof the steel that we already have on the
inside and the substrate of the tower.
So it's like filling in that gap.
It's like, okay, howare we going to do it?
(47:03):
We only have this much room.
And so that was pretty fascinatingtrying to figure that out.
And my team did.
did a lot of of modeling, actually alot of modeling in in Rhino to try to
figure out what all those componentsneeded to be and the thickness.
So that was a pretty cool exercisethat we were, dependent on
technology to be able to do that
Evan Troxel (47:24):
I'm interested from
like a professional standpoint now,
like focusing on how you grew as anarchitect throughout this project.
So, 13 years, like you weren'tthe same at the end that you
were at the beginning, right?
So, maybe pick a couple thingsto talk about for your own
professional growth that happened.
Maybe because of this project, butthroughout this project, obviously you
(47:46):
experienced a lot and you had to dealwith a lot of balls in the air at the
same time and like changing of theguard as it were on the district side.
And you stayed constant throughthis whole thing, right?
So, I mean, professionally, howdid this project impact you?
Israel Peña (48:02):
That I'm loyal to a fault.
Evan Troxel (48:06):
It's rare
that, that you, that
that a project manager wouldstay on this, on a project that
entire time that is that long.
Israel Peña (48:13):
I wasn't actually supposed
to be doing the CA, but the program
manager at that time felt stronglythat, okay, if there's been one person
that's been consistent throughoutthis entire project, it's been Israel.
Israel knows this project.
Evan Troxel (48:31):
You knew too
Israel Peña (48:32):
I knew
Cormac Phalen (48:32):
you know
where everything is
buried.
Evan Troxel (48:34):
ha.
ha.
Israel Peña (48:35):
and, um, you know, we
had a meeting initially before we
started construction, and we hadidentified who our site construction
administrator was going to be.
And it was a, one ofour best senior CA guys.
And, I was like, okaythis is gonna be great.
And the district said, no, Isaid we do not want this person.
(48:55):
The person that needs to be out here andneeds to be out here full time is Israel.
That was rough because I said tothem, hey, this isn't what I do.
I'm not a CA guy.
Can I do it?
Yeah, I've done it before on otherprojects, but that's not my expertise.
But they really pushedfor me to be out there.
And I ended up being out there.
(49:16):
And so one of the things thatI really had to learn was to
trust that I knew what I knew.
you know, because I alwayssecond guess myself.
And I think we all do.
We always second guess ourselves.
Um,
and so it's like, am Idoing the right thing?
Is, am I, am I going to screw this up?
You know, that's but I did realize thata lot of, that I didn't know a lot.
(49:36):
I had to give myselfmore credit than that.
I was willing to give myself.
So I definitely walked away with a littlebit more confidence than I had before.
Cormac Phalen (49:45):
Well, that with a
project like this, the complexity
of a project like this, there aresome things that you are taking some
assumptions when you're working on them.
And
especially when you're.
NCA, and you're, now it's, proof, provingthat those assumptions are right.
(50:06):
You're probably sitting there sometimeslike, fingers crossed, kind of like,
please be right, please be right,please be right, kind of thing.
Cause I mean, those are some really,projects like this, I wish people,
could at least experience once in theircareer, something like this, because
(50:27):
to be quite honest with you, youcan learn so much from these complex
projects that, you're looking at theway things were done historically, that
you've seen the process of like, allthese different construction methods
throughout
the process, Then you're applyingyour, your construction techniques
(50:50):
and everything else and all of themeshing together of all of these
different, basically everything thatyou've learned and even, it would
Sound like you're saying Israel islike things that you didn't even
know you knew and now you know them,
You
know, it's just the complex
projects like these, you know thesehistoric, revitalization renovations
(51:12):
modernizations with additions andthings like that It literally runs
the gamut of almost every typeof project that you could ever
do all wrapped up in one package
Israel Peña (51:23):
I mean, just
any project that you go into
construction it's challenging, right?
But then add,
just add the historic component, and thenhaving to go back to all the preservation
briefs for this one specific thing.
It's like, okay, okay, railing.
I need to make this accessible.
What am I able to do to still becompliant within historic code?
Right?
And then it's so, but, thankfully,we were partnered with historic
(51:46):
resources group, who was our,who is our historic architect.
And they were just, they were incredible.
I was constant communication with them.
They'd come out to the site, they'dlook at things, and it was just
a very collaborative experience.
But going back to the experience ofdoing CA, so 1 of the things that
we had the ability to do is so I didhave an additional CA support with me.
(52:09):
Out there.
And I also brought out twoyoung architects all the time.
I made sure they
came out at least once a week andspent time and they just, it took them
away from doing design work and doingproduction work in the office, but
they are such better architects for it.
(52:30):
just because of, of experiencing all thecrazy unforeseen conditions and the, Oh my
gosh, now we have to redesign this and doit over again because of whatever reason.
And they're just
such better architects for it.
And so I was very grateful that, that allfour of us were able to do what we, that
we had that experience with El Rodeo.
Cormac Phalen (52:52):
Yeah, honestly, I don't
know of any better educational tool than
CA because of the fact that, you've drawnit and now you've got to see it through
Israel Peña (53:06):
Bet it
Cormac Phalen (53:06):
And really understand.
It's just like, Hey, you rememberthat line that you drew there?
Guess what?
There it is right there.
And then in really understandingthat, and Then they go back and they
understand and are more likely totake more care, more, concentration
to say, Okay, am I doing this right?
Am I going to get the final output theway that I'm thinking it's going to be?
(53:30):
And yeah.
Evan Troxel (53:32):
The amount
of problem solving that happens during theCA process on any project Is incredible.
A project like this has probablygot to be to the power of 10, right?
Because you are dealing with so manyvarying existing conditions and having to
blend in with the historic preservationaspect of it and There's so many
different constraints that you're havingto deal with, so I imagine that was
(53:55):
probably an incredible development timefor your team to face those challenges
on a daily basis, basically, and haveto respond as quickly as possible.
Israel Peña (54:04):
Oh, absolutely.
I, again, it was incredibly stressful.
But now being off of the project,I'm I feel a little empty.
You know, it's like, what, what's next?
You know,
Cormac Phalen (54:19):
so let me ask you this.
So there was times when it wasstressful times when you probably were
bitter, it was like rough and angry.
And you're like, man, Ican't wait till this is done.
Just get
Evan Troxel (54:31):
How do I get off
Cormac Phalen (54:32):
get away from it.
It's just like, and then, and now thatit's done, and then there's this sense of,
relief, release, you take this step back.
And.
You know, sometimes we
have these kind of like love haterelationships with our projects,
but, where are you at in that stage?
I mean, are you feeling
empty?
Yeah,
Israel Peña (54:53):
go back.
You know, no, it's,
Evan Troxel (54:57):
Stockholm
Israel Peña (54:57):
Yeah,
it's,
it's, it's just been such a big part ofmy life that it's you know, good and bad.
I had in 2018, 2019 I had thisweird issue that just, We don't
know exactly what happened.
I think it's was based off a stressthat my, my auto, my immune system
(55:18):
started attacking my optic nerve.
So it
My vision.
So I have, I'm technicallyvisually impaired now.
And so it's really changed.
My life has changed.
Quite a bit since then, which isone of the reasons that I was living
out in Beverly Hills and had a placeto stay at during the week because
(55:40):
I couldn't drive because I, I have, Ihave driving restrictions and I have all
these restrictions because of my vision.
And so it.
It was, it impacted me a lot.
And again, I think ithappened because of stress.
And thankfully because of my fitness,it wasn't a heart attack, but, uh, but
(56:00):
it just, it, it just happened to be,it just happened to attack my eyes.
But it But again I still the experiencehas just been absolutely incredible.
It's been life changing.
It's giving me some confidence thatthat I didn't have because I, I'm,
I have issues with self confidence.
I've always had that
and, uh, But I know that I'm very capableof doing something pretty amazing.
(56:23):
Just looking at, what weaccomplished at it at this campus.
I
Evan Troxel (56:29):
I have a topic that
I think goes into like, overtime.
Because I think, Cormac, youwould get a kick out of this.
So, I feel, I, do you haveanything else that you want to
ask Israel about this project?
Because, like, what you justsaid there, Israel, was like,
This really poetic moment,
it was just
like, it was like, the answer to morestress is to actually embed you further
(56:50):
in the project, but you miss it.
Like it actually is thisthing you're so proud of.
It's absolutely an incredible story.
Israel Peña (56:57):
What, one of the, I just
wanted to say that one of the lines
that I said that I come came up within the interview and the video was
that, you know, as architects wereadvocates for our districts, for our
clients, for our staff and the students.
And I found myself for this particularproject that I really became an advocate
for the building because I felt thatso many people didn't understand
(57:18):
the significance of what that was.
this cultural resource is, um, and isfor that community of Beverly Hills.
And and thankfully, we were ableto preserve as much as we could.
And the community really did appreciatewhat we did from that perspective.
And so I, I feel an attachmentto the building and, um,
(57:38):
yeah, very special place Yeah.
Yeah.
Cormac Phalen (57:41):
I was, so I was in the
office yesterday and I was talking
to, a bunch of senior folks and theywere the only ones left in the office.
And I'm like, why are you still here?
It's just like, well, we got to getthis done and all this other stuff.
And I'm like,
In fact, I was havinga conversation back in
the
Chicago AIA convention with, oneof your fellow colleagues at HMC.
(58:05):
And we were, we were kind of lamentingabout just like the, young kids and, their
dedication and all of this other stuff.
And we were, kind of talking more aboutjust, the fact that maybe we have it
wrong, that maybe, our overworkingand all of that other stuff is kind
of the wrong way of doing things.
But, And so I said, it's justlike, it's that, you know,
that abusive relationship.
This is what I said yesterday.
(58:26):
I was like, it was that abusiverelationship where we, we love and we love
and we love, and it just doesn't love usback the way that we want to be loved.
And they were like, yes, exactly that, youknow, and it was just like, yeah, I mean,
you
loved a little too much where it was
almost
about to take you out.
Israel Peña (58:44):
too long.
Evan Troxel (58:45):
It's a therapy session right
Israel Peña (58:46):
So, let's
Cormac Phalen (58:47):
Yeah.
Israel Peña (58:48):
started.
Evan Troxel (58:50):
All right, so let's shift
gears into overtime and let's not talk
about architecture anymore for a minutebecause I want you to explain your
backdrop and kind of what this part
Israel Peña (58:58):
Oh.
Okay, let me do this first.
Hold on a second.
You'll love this part.
Evan Troxel (59:07):
I knew there was
going to be special lighting.
Cormac Phalen (59:08):
Nice.
Evan Troxel (59:10):
So you YouTube listeners
because it's a very visual, it's
a visual spectacle, I dare say.
Cormac Phalen (59:18):
is
definitely the spectacle.
Evan Troxel (59:19):
So explain what's behind you
and then explain this part of your life.
That's absolutely incredible.
Israel Peña (59:24):
so right now we're
sitting in my home office studio
slash exercise room, but because it'safter Halloween, um, I've actually.
covered everything behindme because it's a disaster.
So our house is a total mess right now.
So basically for two monthsstarting, and usually we start in
(59:45):
after Labor Day weekend is whenwe start setting up for Halloween.
So my partner and I arehuge Halloween fans.
And not that we're intothe gory, scary things.
We're just very creative individuals.
I call us the perfect A& E team.
I'm the architecture, I'm the design,I'm the structure, and my partner is
(01:00:07):
the mechanical, the electrical, theplumbing, the audio visual, the lighting.
That's him.
And so we're like this perfectcombination of just putting something.
Really amazing.
So we're big fans of Disney.
And and, so I'm actually anightmare before Christmas fan.
And so we've been,
Cormac Phalen (01:00:26):
noticed the
Israel Peña (01:00:27):
you didn't notice the mug.
Cormac Phalen (01:00:28):
I'm a
big Tim Burton fan.
big big Tim Burton fan.
Israel Peña (01:00:33):
so we started decorating for.
For Halloween and Christmas when wefirst moved down from the Central Coast,
and so we were doing Nightmare BeforeChristmas, and we were doing that, um,
for several years, and my partnerwas kind of getting tired of it.
So, when we moved into our home, the homethat we're in now he wanted to, he said,
Hey, can we take a break from Nightmareand, Do Pirates of the Caribbean,
(01:00:55):
because he's a big fan of pirates.
And so I said, I joked, I kind of joked,but it was actually telling the truth.
I said, well, I'm willing tochange if I can build a ship.
If I can build a pirate ship, then I'm in.
And he goes, okay.
So it started off with half of apirate ship and a treasure room
and a little bit of decking.
(01:01:16):
And And it was, again, it waspretty spectacular for just a
small Halloween display, right?
But then we started noticing as trickpeople were coming, people were kind
of excited about what we were doing.
We were having some trafficflow issues because of all the
people coming to the door and coming back.
Evan Troxel (01:01:33):
I've driven by this, I've
driven by this, like it's incredible.
And I want you to send me some pictures,Israel, so that I can put them in the
video here so people can actually see
Israel Peña (01:01:41):
So I'm actually working on
a new video because the last video that
I did was in 2022, which is a good one.
And it's a 12 minute video, butit's only because I'm trying
to capture all the detail.
So, but it's a full on walkthrough ofDisneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean.
And again, we tried to replicateit as closely as we could.
But it's pretty fantastic.
(01:02:02):
And I call it an immersive experiencebecause when you come through
this, you can't help, but escapeand revert back to that time that
you rode the ride.
children and adults.
Old, older individuals, they,everyone just absolutely loves it.
(01:02:22):
And you always hear the stories.
It's like, oh, my gosh, I remember whenI was, oh, this is my favorite ride.
And but we literally have convertedour, our entire yard our garage, our
entire courtyard, and it's a veryimmersive walkthrough experience.
And then we've, again, we've triedto take all the main scenes from the
ride and tried to replicate them.
(01:02:43):
And and it's all been done justhim and I, for the most part we
are the creative force behind it.
And,
Cormac Phalen (01:02:50):
So does
it stay up all year?
Do you take it down?
Israel Peña (01:02:54):
Now, so
Cormac Phalen (01:02:56):
pirates
Evan Troxel (01:02:56):
a couple
of bins in the garage.
It's just, just a little bit ofstuff that you put away once a year.
Israel Peña (01:03:01):
no, it's
so this is this, I've my partner actually,because now he's retired, he disappeared
to go visit his parents for a week.
And so, we should be takingthings down and putting them away.
But it takes us sometimes it eventakes us 3, 4 months to put everything
away just because it's so much.
And it's just and we're exhausted.
We're just tired, but it's.
(01:03:22):
individuals.
my biggest thing with this isthat we love sharing information.
sharing with the kids that come and seeit, um, and explaining that everything
you're looking at was handmade.
And because the first question we usuallyget from kids is, where did you buy this?
Oh, Where did you buy this Oh,did you get this from Disney?
(01:03:44):
Oh, do you work for Disney?
No, no, no, no, no.
We, we've made everything.
Um, and I've actually been,
I haven't put anything together yet,but we do a lot of time lapse videos,
and I've been doing time lapse capturesof everything from my sketching, to
the CAD work, to the SketchUp modeling,to the doing the mock up, to producing
(01:04:07):
this thing, and to the final product.
So, and.
In the future, I really do hope tohave this video as people, because
people actually wait in line tosee this when we're when it's
Halloween season, just like Disneyland,so that they have something so they can
see the process and they can realize,like, Oh, my gosh, they literally did
everything, just like this sign back here.
(01:04:28):
I, I took a photo.
We had a photo of the actualsign at the entrance of the ride.
And I went into CAD and I tracedevery letter just because, it
had to be exactly like Disney.
I built the letters in two pieces andmodeled them in SketchUp, 3D printed them.
And it's one of my favorite piecesand I do a lot of 3D printing and
(01:04:50):
it's just been, it's just, it makes,it's just, it's so, so much fun.
I just got
Evan Troxel (01:04:54):
How long have
you had that 3D printer now?
It hasn't been that long, has it?
Like five years, maybe?
Israel Peña (01:04:59):
Yeah, it's just
been, it's just been a few years.
I have the Ultimaker 2 Plus and thenI recently acquired the the S5, but
it's just been, actually, the S5 hasjust been a pain in the, a pain in
my butt because I just can't, I keephaving issues with the printhead,
but that 2 Plus, that Ultimaker 2
has Just It just keeps going.
(01:05:20):
It's a
workhorse.
I love it.
And the only reason I got the S5 isbecause I wanted the bigger build plate.
Um, and, but so, yeah it'sjust, it's a lot of fun.
Evan Troxel (01:05:30):
Give people an
idea of 3D printing, though.
So, like, you're talking aboutthe sign and letters and stuff,
but you have a lot more kind of
Israel Peña (01:05:38):
So, I also, So there's the
plaque, there's this entry, there's a
dedication plaque at the At the entranceof the ride, right as you're walking
into in Anaheim at the Pirates whenyou're walking in and it kind of splits
off and goes upward, at the little waterfountain, there's this plaque that's
dedicated to the original Imagineers.
So I kind of created my own and I3D printed again, all the letters,
(01:06:03):
but so I did it most, I try toreplicate it like the actual sign,
but then I dedicated it to us, to
myself, and, We call ourselves Piratesfor a Cause we've been raising we, we
actually have a team with the AmericanCancer Society, really, for Life of
Corona, and we've been raising fundsfor the American Cancer Society for,
through this display, for the last 2002.
(01:06:25):
10, 10, 2010.
So it's, we do this for charity,but so that plaque, I 3d printed,
there's a skull that I 3d printed.
There's the, some of the details onthis, on the mermaids that I 3d printed.
Actually I love this piece.
So this is,
Cormac Phalen (01:06:46):
Yeah.
Cool.
Israel Peña (01:06:47):
so I 3d printed this,
Well, at least the, the base for this.
And, so the scarab and this portion inhere is all 3D printed, and then it's just
covered in Swarovski crystals and whatnot.
it's it's it's a beautiful
piece.
I, I, again, you cansee, I love the detail.
I love working with these details.
(01:07:08):
But but yeah, there's just there's alot of things that that we've, a lot
of little things that I've printed.
Evan Troxel (01:07:13):
And then you have actors,
like, be parts of the display, so
that you actually have kind of likethis live stage thing going, so that
when people go through these differentspaces, they're experiencing characters.
It's very cool.
Israel Peña (01:07:27):
It's,
uh,
Evan Troxel (01:07:28):
of the show.
I gotta put a shout out to Brett.
Brett, friend of the show.
Israel Peña (01:07:32):
yes,
Evan Troxel (01:07:32):
He was a
huge part of that for so
Israel Peña (01:07:34):
Brett used to be our Davy
Jones, he used to dress up as Davy Jones.
He was amazing.
But when he had Owen their first child,you know, he couldn't participate anymore.
So then my brother tookover as Davy Jones.
So my brother is Davy Jones.
One of my nephews was Maccas.
One of the part of the crew ofDavey Jones's ship, but he has
(01:07:56):
also kind of outgrown that.
So now we've brought in his successor, mynephew, who's who's now the young Maccas
and then myself I'm the auctioneer withthe, the wench next to me Davey Jones.
And I, you know, I give out the candyand, but it's, it's a whole family affair.
I mean, it's, it's,
it's a, it's a huge crew.
(01:08:16):
We even do like in thebackground, my sister and my
nieces making homemade beignets.
So.
On Halloween night, we actuallyset up under our tree, we set up
the Blue Bayou, and so we havereservations for VIPs, and so those
people come into the Blue Bayou and areserved hot cocoa and coffee with freshly
(01:08:37):
made beignets, And every year peopleare like, how do I get on the list?
How do I, how, how, how can Iget a reservation for next year?
It's so,
Evan Troxel (01:08:46):
donation to
Israel Peña (01:08:47):
yeah.
Absolutely.
So it's,
it's just, It's just become acommunity thing and just fun.
It's a lot of work.
It's a tremendous amount of work, but
Evan Troxel (01:08:56):
And how many nights
do you do the performances?
Israel Peña (01:08:58):
We only, we actually
only do it, we open the two Saturdays
before and just Halloween night
Evan Troxel (01:09:04):
Okay.
Israel Peña (01:09:05):
because we all the,
Like the speakers, the iPods,
the characters, anything thatisn't nailed down and permanent.
We actually take it down and put it away.
So set up during, each nightwe'll take anywhere from.
Depending on the night couldbe 1 to 2 hours to set up and
(01:09:25):
then we take it down at night.
And so that's why wedon't do it every night.
It's just it's tremendous
amount of work and it takesa lot of people To man it.
But my family's amazing.
They all live, you know, withina, so many miles from here.
So they're, Just as much apart of it as my partner and I.
And so it's a huge, it's a huge thing.
Evan Troxel (01:09:45):
So cool.
So cool.
Israel Peña (01:09:46):
But next year next
year is Nightmare Before Christmas.
Evan Troxel (01:09:50):
Oh, okay.
I was going to ask, like,when does it switch?
Like, because if he got tired ofit and then you move to this, when
does, when do you get tired ofthis and move to something else?
Israel Peña (01:09:59):
So we, so we take a break.
Yeah, so we take a break everyfour to five years and, you know,
it just depends but because I amturning 50 in 2025, I determined
that's when we're doing Nightmare.
So next
Halloween will beNightmare before Christmas.
Evan Troxel (01:10:15):
And what do you
do with all this stuff?
What do you do with allthis stuff that, like,
Israel Peña (01:10:20):
You
know,
Evan Troxel (01:10:21):
number one, you
got to put it somewhere when
you're not doing this, but nowyou're actually switching it up.
And then,
and now what?
Israel Peña (01:10:26):
So, this is the
part that really, really kind of
sucks that my partner retired.
So, my partner worked in a warehouseand the owners, the original owners
of the company knew us and thatwe were doing this for charity.
And so they said, you need to just,
just,
put everything on a palette andjust store everything here for free.
(01:10:47):
And so that's one of the reasons why I hadto be strategic about how I design pieces.
So I had to design everything to basicallybreak down and fit on a 48 inch palette.
So that's kind of the, the geometry.
I had everything had to fit within apalette and it can only be so high.
So that's that was, those are myconstraints when designing pieces and but.
(01:11:09):
Most of it was stored for freeat this warehouse because we
were doing it for charity.
But now that he retired,we lost our free storage.
And so we, We did we've had a storageunit and that's where we had our
nightmare stuff, which it's not as bigas Pirates, but now that Pirates had
to be removed from the warehouse, wehad to get a bigger storage unit and
(01:11:32):
it's really hurting the pocketbook,
you know,
it's really expensive.
So, I don't know how much longerwe'll be able to maintain doing this.
Um, and again, we're alsogetting older and it's a lot of.
Work.
It's a lot of hard work forjust a couple individuals to do.
I will say my brother, majorshout out to my brother.
(01:11:54):
He actually took off a week of vacationthis year just to help us set up.
So, between the 3 of us,
and without him, I mean,he was just, He's vital.
So that's, I mean, that's howmuch of a commitment this is.
And, that's, it's pretty hardcore.
So we'll see.
We're all getting older.
It's getting harder to build someof these things and it just takes
(01:12:16):
up a lot of time and resources, butwe're still passionate about it.
We love it and it's goingtowards a good cause.
So we'll continue to doit as long as we can.
Evan Troxel (01:12:26):
Such a cool, such a
cool, like out of normal day to day
architecture stuff that you guys are
doing.
It's absolutely incredible.
Well, I'm glad you got to tellthat part of what we're doing.
What, I mean that, that has nothingto do with that project, and at the
same time, like, this is probably a,
like a piece of your sanity, right?
Israel Peña (01:12:45):
No, well, I was, when
I was in school, I did do a year of
set design and I was working witha professor there at, in San Luis
Obispo, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo,and he reached out to me and he said,
Israel, You need to go into set design.
What are you doing in architecture?
And
at that point, yeah, and you know,this was before my fifth year,
(01:13:07):
going into my fifth year thesis.
And I just said, you know what?
I just don't want to start over again.
I'm just almost donewith architecture school.
I just need to get out.
But he was trying to encourageme to get my MFA because he just
saw that I loved, doing this.
And so a part of me wishes that Ihad gone into set design, but, not
really, just working in Hollywood would
Cormac Phalen (01:13:27):
In a way,
you, in a way you still are
Israel Peña (01:13:29):
But I am,
but I, exactly, that'swhy, that's what I'm doing.
I am able to do it.
So,
Evan Troxel (01:13:35):
And you don't
Cormac Phalen (01:13:35):
Well, I'm
not even talking about that.
I'm talking aboutarchitecture is set design in
Israel Peña (01:13:39):
true.
That is true.
That is true.
Evan Troxel (01:13:42):
Yeah.
Very cool.
Well, thank you so much for spendingthe time with us and telling
these stories because, it's coolto kind of have this real life.
Like people have been listening to usbabble on for a long time, but to have
somebody who is like living in thetrenches on one project that went for
13 years is just absolutely incredible.
(01:14:04):
Such an amazing achievement tosee it through that whole way.
And And not, not walk away from it atsome point because, I mean, that happens
all the time in architecture, right?
So, cool.
Thank you so much for doing thatand coming on here to share that.
Israel Peña (01:14:19):
No, this was a lot of fun.
I appreciate you invitingme to be on here.
It's been, it's been a lot of fun.
Evan Troxel (01:14:32):
And visiting
the auditorium at El Rodeo.
Definitely.
Israel Peña (01:14:40):
It'll be easier to get to
my house than getting into Beverly Hills.
It's just Beverly Hills drivinginto there is just a challenge.
Evan Troxel (01:14:47):
True.
True.
Yeah.
I moved out of Southern California.
I have no current desire to go visit,but I would go visit for this for sure.
Israel Peña (01:14:56):
Yeah, you should, you should.
It's a lot of fun.
And, and we've been very lucky andfortunate that The Designing Futures
Foundation, which is the foundationthrough HMC Architects has actually been
supporting us the last several years.
And so it's, it's, it's becomesuch, it's become a bigger thing
every, you know, every year.
And it's just a lot of people, um,are just incredibly supportive.
(01:15:18):
So we're going to, we're,we're very grateful for that,
that support.
Evan Troxel (01:15:22):
Nice.
Well, thanks man.
Great to see you.
Israel Peña (01:15:26):
Likewise.
Thank you.