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May 19, 2025 39 mins

In this episode of Archispeak, we’re joined by Jessica Orlando, Vice President and President-Elect of the AIA Pasadena Foothill chapter, to explore how architects are stepping up in the aftermath of the recent Altadena and Palisades wildfires in Southern California. Jessica shares how the AIA’s volunteer-led “Ask an Architect” initiative is connecting displaced residents with licensed professionals to help guide them through the overwhelming process of rebuilding—many for the first time.

We discuss the powerful role architects can play in disaster response, the challenges of balancing speed with resilience in permitting and design, and the implications of relaxed regulations in the name of urgency. Jessica also walks us through what’s happening on the ground, including policy shifts, modular and prefab strategies, bulk material purchasing efforts, and the surprising silver linings some homeowners are finding in being able to reimagine what “home” means.

This conversation highlights the profession’s unique ability to lead with empathy, share knowledge, and organize in the face of crisis—and why this moment is an opportunity for all of us to do better, together.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Evan Troxel (00:09):
Welcome back to the Archispeak podcast.
This week Cormac is becoming a theme.
We're having more and more guests on the

Cormac Phalen (00:15):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (00:16):
It's,

Cormac Phalen (00:16):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (00:17):
of weird but we have Jessica Orlando and you are like,
you're gonna give us your title andeverything, but you're at Perkins
and Will in Southern California, butyou're also really involved in the
local AIA Pasadena Foothill chapter.
And we're gonna be talking about therecent fire devastation that happened in
the Altadena area of Southern California.
And there, there wasalso the Palisades fire.

(00:38):
There's a lot I think of informationthat the AIA to share for people who are.
Being forced to rebuild, butthen all architects who are
helping make that happen.
How maybe architects can get more involvedin what's going on and maybe what some
of the policy changes have been becauseof state of emergency that it's been in.
And so I would love it if you would giveus kind of a, a quick overview of where

(01:02):
you're coming from and, and what you'vebeen seeing for the last few months.

Jessica Orlando (01:07):
Thanks so much for having me.
As you mentioned, I'm with theAI Pasadena Foothill chapter.
This year I'm the VicePresident, president-elect.
And unfortunately, our presidentactually was directly impacted
and lost his home in the fire.
And that's part of the reason whyI felt it was necessary for me to
really step in and kind of takeownership of our wildfire response.
And so here I am managing a couplehundred volunteers and various initiatives

(01:31):
that we've, that we've implementedover the last three months or so.
It's been absolutely a privilege workingwith all the folks that we have on board.
And we have a, we have a lot goingon, so, I think first and foremost.
The Ask An Architect program hasgotten a lot of really great coverage
and I think it's really where we'vebeen able to make the most impact.
We've actually, as of today, we'vematched about 210 community members

(01:52):
with licensed California architects.
And the purpose of that programis really to just give guidance
and information to folks who aretrying to navigate this process.
Uh, you know, it's reallyjust overwhelming, you
know, for so many people.
You know, thousands of homes were lost.
In Altadena and, and evenbeyond that in the Palisades.
And most of these people have neverhad the opportunity to work with an

(02:14):
architect or have been confronted withthe reality of having to build anything.
And so really what we're here to do isto provide this free service to help
provide just that, that guidance, butalso that confidence so that folks.
Can feel more comfortablewith how they, they make their
decisions and how to move forward.
So we know that not everyonewill be able to stay and rebuild.
You know, we are, we're helpingfolks navigate questions

(02:36):
about insurance you know,

Evan Troxel (02:37):
Hmm.

Jessica Orlando (02:37):
questions.
We're just giving them as manyresources as we can to help
make those critical decisions.
And then once they do decide torebuild connecting them with reputable
professionals that they can workwith, whether they're architects or
contractors or other design professionals.
So, we're seeing that that's reallybeen just a critical connector you
know, trying to bring, bring allof the information to the people so

(03:00):
that they, they know how best to moveforward in their particular situation.
that's been a huge focus for us.
Another focus has been about educatingthe public about the rebuilding process.
And so we've done multiple in-personevents as well as virtual webinars.
Really just trying to shareinformation about what the
process of rebuilding looks like.
Who are all the players that areinvolved how they can engage with

(03:22):
that, bring information to the table.
We actually just had a really greatwebinar in partnership with LA County
Public Works this past Saturday about howto engage with the design professionals.
So what to bring to the table, what toexpect but also what you should get from
your design professional and what withyour design team so that you know, we
really wanna avoid folks getting takenadvantage of in this situation as well.

(03:43):
So just providing them, thatkind of empowerment and education
as they move forward with,with, the rebuilding process.
So those are really two of thebiggest things we focused on.
You did mention changes in policy as well.
So we are also focused on kind ofadvocacy efforts and connecting
with our local government officials.
Just trying to stay apprisedof everything that's changing.
It's a, it's a veryquickly changing landscape.

(04:06):
And I can talk a little bit more aboutsome of those specific changes too.
But but yeah, there's, there'sa lot going on and we know that.
There continue, there continues to beyou know, many, many things going on as
well that we're trying to stay on top of.
So, so those are kinda the big, bigareas that we focused on so far.

Cormac Phalen (04:22):
So let me ask you, how has the public's reception of
all of this outreach and supportfrom the architecture community been.

Jessica Orlando (04:33):
I think we've gotten great feedback
from both sides of the table.
So we have, right now we have about150 volunteer architects who we are
matching with community members.
I think for them you may have seensome of the, the directories or lists.
That came out right after thefires of architects saying, Hey,
we wanna help, there's, we wanna dosomething to support our community.

(04:53):
This has been a tangible wayfor them to contribute directly.
And they're working directly witha community member one-on-one.
So I think it's rewardingfor architects because.
You know, so many of us just wantedto help in some way, you know,
provide that expertise where we can.
and then on the flip side, we'rehearing very positive things
from the community as well.
I think so many of them, as I mentioned,are just, they're overwhelmed.

(05:16):
They don't feel

Cormac Phalen (05:17):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (05:17):
anyone who's advocating for

Evan Troxel (05:19):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (05:21):
They're getting a lot of folks coming to them

Cormac Phalen (05:23):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (05:23):
make money, you know?
So I think for us to be a nonprofitorganization that is really there
to be an unbiased resource, I think.
It's, it's refreshing for them and it,and it just gives them a lot of confidence
that they're getting accurate information.
So, so I think on both ends,it's been very positive.

Cormac Phalen (05:41):
Great.

Evan Troxel (05:41):
you kind of paint a picture of what the process has been
like and, and maybe it even, I don'tknow if you guys have done any research
into other locations in California.
Like, been the Paradise Fire, SantaRosa, there's been obviously California.
This is a plague of, of being inCalifornia in, in some respects.
But it's like, there's obviouslylessons learned as this has

(06:04):
happened over the years.
What have you been able tokind of apply to this situation
from those previous situations?
As far as what you're able to thentranslate to the homeowners as far
as what to expect when it comes timeto make that decision to rebuild and
what's possible and things like that?

Jessica Orlando (06:22):
Absolutely.
So one of the first things we did actuallyright after the, we started mobilizing
was we organized a session with AIA Maui,

Evan Troxel (06:30):
Oh yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (06:31):
the Laina fires.
And we had a, a great session.
It's recorded and on our YouTubechannel just talking about where
they were, you know, about two,two plus years after the fact.
I think one of the biggest lessons orjust, you know, pieces of information
that we could share just amongst our owncommunity, but also with the public is,
is the time that it takes to rebuild.
I think that just being realistic aboutthe expectation is really important.

(06:54):
Just so that they, going in eyesopen, kind of knowing, knowing what's
gonna happen is really important.
I think one of the challenges is that.
This, this, these fires hita major metropolitan area.
We luckily we are connectedwith AIA California, which
is our umbrella organization.
You know, there are 21 AIAchapters in California.
And so they have resources andpeople that we can connect with.

(07:17):
And so we've talked with a lotof them about like you said, the
Woolsey fire you know, the Palisadeor the, sorry, the Paradise Fire.
So we've gotten some of those lessonslearned, but this situation is.
So different because the, thecontext is so different, so much
of an or, the urban area burned asopposed to a much more rural context.
So, so I think as much as we canlearn from kind of the process

(07:40):
and the, the implementation thathappened after those fires, it's
still fundamentally very differenttoo, just because of the context.
So, so we're trying to learn as much aswe can, but also understand that things
like changing permit processes are, is.
Very different in a place like LACounty versus, you know, a small
locality in Northern California,

Evan Troxel (07:58):
So when it comes to like those kind of permit process changes,
can you just talk a little bit aboutwhat happened at right after the fire
and what, what the goals were with that?
And then maybe you can speak toward the,at least the short term reality of that,
whether it's been positive or negative.

Jessica Orlando (08:16):
Yeah.
So I think that there's been.
You know, we are living in a housingcrisis here in Southern California, right?
So there's this immediate pressure forhousing, and then we just lost, you know,
tens of thousands of, of homes, right?
So, so it's basicallythis pressure cooker.
And I, and I think partially becauseof that, there's been this immense
focus on just how do we rebuild back

Evan Troxel (08:37):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (08:37):
as possible, because we need these housing units to be online.
And people, we don't want people to leave.
Right.
You know, there are people who,they're now sitting on this property
that they can't, they can't occupy.
How do we prevent them fromgoing to Arizona or going to
another state or another city?
You know?
So, so I think that the, the first couplemonths really have been focused on how
do we just remove barriers to rebuilding?

(09:01):
And I'll speak for myself.
I don't wanna speak for necessarily ourchapter, the organization, but I think
some of the, the, the regulations thatwere rolled back were a little concerning.
You know, things like sustainabilityrequirements you know, for like photo
Volta panels and things like that.
We understand that there are costsand, you know, timelines that are
associated with those, but but.
This situation is facilitatedby climate change, right?

(09:23):
So we don't necessarily wannagive up on those things that, are
trying to combat the issue that'screating, you know, this problem.
So there are things like that that I,you know, are a little challenging.
But then on the flip side, in termsof permit streamlining, you know,
we're now just starting to see somechanges that are occurring within the
city of LA and the county of LA totry and just acknowledge that the.

(09:44):
Previous processes that took monthsand months to approve, set of
drawings for building, you know,that's not gonna work, right?
We have to get creative and we have tochange the way we've been doing things.
And so I think we're, we're headedin the right direction to try
to try and get there and makesure that we meet the demand.
I.

Cormac Phalen (10:01):
So.
You, you had started to touch on, theconcerns you had about, the fast tracking
of the permitting and things like that.
And so forgive the naive question from theeast coaster here, but are they looking
at ways of also potentially like modifyingthe building codes, making more resilient
housing and things like that, that.
Are either adding to or kind oflike slowing down any of that

(10:24):
process, or is it just kind oflike everything's flooding at once?

Jessica Orlando (10:30):
I, I think right now it's all just about speed, just trying
to, trying to make it happen faster.
And I, and that is a concern forour community, I think, which
is that we're gonna go back and.
Rebuilding in theseplaces that just burned,

Cormac Phalen (10:42):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (10:43):
don't necessarily want to create the same problem

Cormac Phalen (10:46):
Right.

Jessica Orlando (10:47):
had.
So, you know, we wanna alsoadvocate for smart rebuilding as
well, not just fast rebuilding.
And so I think, I think that'sdefinitely part of the conversation
we're trying to have now.

Evan Troxel (10:57):
Yeah, I was, I was just gonna add in, like you, we
all saw the pictures of like theone house that didn't burn, right.
And, and there was allthese analyses going on of,

Jessica Orlando (11:06):
Mm-hmm.

Evan Troxel (11:06):
and, but I mean, this, the,

Cormac Phalen (11:07):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (11:08):
about building smart, right?
Like it's, it's materials, it's, it's,it's separation, it's defensible space.
It's,

Cormac Phalen (11:15):
yeah.

Evan Troxel (11:15):
things.
And to your point, like a lot oftimes, like putting yourself in the
shoes of the homeowner, they want to.
Get back what they just lost.
And so there's this huge

Cormac Phalen (11:26):
right,

Evan Troxel (11:27):
put on the design professionals and the permitting agencies.
And I'm sure the permittingagencies are like, yeah,
whatever makes our lives easier.
'cause they all of a sudden it's anoverwhelming amount of work to just
say, well, let's just build what we

Cormac Phalen (11:38):
right.

Evan Troxel (11:39):
Let's just build the exact same thing

Jessica Orlando (11:40):
Right.

Evan Troxel (11:42):
There's one, there's like the aesthetic part of it, right?
Which is just like the feeling ofhome for these people who, like
you said, didn't have to, they,they were probably never gonna have
to deal with an architect, right?
Or, or a builder.

Cormac Phalen (11:53):
All right.

Evan Troxel (11:54):
so they're in this situation of like, I just want what I lost.
Like that's the thing I want.
And, and so there's that pressure, butat the same time it's like, well, you,
we also all saw what happened because of.
Old, you know,

Cormac Phalen (12:07):
Right.

Evan Troxel (12:08):
techniques and, you know, exposed attic vent and like all of
these things that have, you know, emberscatch under the, the eaves or in the
gutters or like, whatever the things are.
And, and you know, timberframe construction, right?
So, light, light frame wood construction.
So it's like what the, we sawthis with the paradise fires too.
It's like the, the same thing.
It's like, well, let's just go backin and build the exact same thing.

(12:32):
And, and it seems likethere's such a huge incentive.
To e even if you could it looking acertain way, but replacing that with a
material that is way more fire resistantwould just be a super easy win there.
But it is there.
Are there any requirements on anythinglike that being put into place for

(12:52):
these fast track kind of permit, youknow, permit approvals to build again?

Jessica Orlando (12:58):
Right now the, the only requirements that kind of go
above and beyond code minimum arein the high fire severity zones.
So Cal Fire, you know, they issue plansthat kind of dictate where these zones
exist and they just reissued plansat the end of March after the fires
that considered what happened withboth the Palisades and the Eaton fire.

(13:19):
I think we were all a little surprisedthat they actually not expand as far as

Evan Troxel (13:24):
Mm.

Jessica Orlando (13:24):
might given the current events.
I think that was a little surprising,but, the, the, the upside is
that this can drive cost, right?
That's always the downside isthat to go above code minimum, you

Evan Troxel (13:36):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (13:36):
to invest more,

Evan Troxel (13:38):
Right.

Jessica Orlando (13:38):
in, in

Cormac Phalen (13:39):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (13:40):
I think though, because of the concerns of the community about.
happening again at a future date.
I think we're just actually hearing moreorganic interest from community members.
You know, so they're just saying,okay, we're gonna go build back, but
we, I wanna make sure that it's gonnabe something that is more resilient.
And so just that voluntary action,I think is really powerful because

(14:04):
people are more aware of it now.
And so we're definitely encouraging that.
Um, you know, we partnered withthe U-S-G-B-C California on
their Resilient Rebuilding Guide.
they definitely took most ofthe effort on that with aip.
And it's a really fantastic resource,so we're pointing people to that.
And it's just, I think for us,we're, again, it's a lot of
it is about education, right?
So how can we just share thatinformation and make sure that people

(14:26):
are aware that there are relativelysimple and they, they do cost
something, but the overall cost is not.
Really onerous.
And so we think it's worthwhilefor them to consider.
So we're, we're definitely tryingto kind of share that message.

Evan Troxel (14:39):
I, I'm curious from like a homeowner's point of view then,
is when they're coming in to talkto architects, can you talk about
what some of the, the, again, kindof reframing it as like, I just want
back what I just lost kind of a thing.
But there's potential, I thinkbecause things have changed, right?
Since their homes were originally built

Cormac Phalen (14:58):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (14:59):
for the most part.
Right.
Of course there are some that werejust, actually, I have an architect
friend who lost his house inPasadena or Altadena, that, that it
was like two, maybe two years old.
Like it was literally brand new, right?
So like what I'm talking aboutmaybe doesn't apply to, to his
family's home, but others who,who were built a long time ago.

(15:20):
Can you talk about what some of thechanges have been that, that people
may not know about, so that when theycome and do talk to an architect, what
are the kinds of things that architectsare telling them are that they can,
that they can do to their property?

Jessica Orlando (15:33):
For sure.
Yeah.
Well, and, and this is partialpart of what I tell architects
too, who are very concerned aboutjust going back and rebuilding.
Is that, you know, many of thestructures that burned were

Evan Troxel (15:44):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (15:44):
years old.
Right.
They were, you know, therewere no building codes for
some of those structures thatburned, that they were sold.
And the other thing to keep in mindtoo is that just the, because of the
age of the neighborhoods there wasjust a lot of vegetative fuel as well.
You know, a lot of, a lot of brush, alot of, plants right up against houses.
So, so I mean, part of, we knowthat part of the management

(16:06):
is just about landscape too.
So I think that's animportant thing to consider.
But there are relatively easy orcost-effective ways to manage you.
You mentioned a few of them already, whichis just checking your, your your events.
Checking what your roof ismade out of, making sure it's
a class, a fireproof material.
You know, we actually had some friendswho they did not lose their home.
They had a new, they had a relativelynew roof on their home, and and they

(16:28):
think that's part of the reason why theirhouse didn't burn was they had no events.
They had no gutters.
And they had a relatively new roof.
So, you know, there are certain thingsthat we know that if you focus on
those elements that, you know, itcan give you much more confidence
about the resilience of your home.
So, so, you know, we, we hopewe can at least solve that
message a little, a little

Evan Troxel (16:47):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (16:47):
you know, just to give people that information, so.

Cormac Phalen (16:50):
And so architects are I know you've said this, but I mean,
architects are basically sittingdown with them and like educating
them and walking them through.
I mean, the same thing as, I'm, I'ma registered Florida architect and
when we have hurricanes and thingslike that, we gotta go through the
same process of, it's just like,well, you can't build what you have.
Or what you had, but you, you can,and, and then just educating them

(17:13):
on like, components in clad andwhat the, what it means with the
new codes and things like that.
And, and it, it, it always feels likewe're the bearer of bad news, that
it's gonna slow it down or it's gonnadrive up cost or things like that.
But, it's, it's.
Being able to deliver the hard newsin a softer way to kind of at least

(17:33):
inform them that you know what you'regoing to get is going to be better.
It is going to be, you know.

Jessica Orlando (17:40):
Absolutely.
And I, and I think one thing that'sbeen very positive for us is that
amidst this tra tragedy, right?
I mean this is absolutely a tragedy.
Are still people who are seeingthe silver lining, which is.
I never would've gotten toenvision a new home for myself.
And I get to go through thatprocess and work with someone and
think about what that could be.

(18:01):
You know, and, and so they, theyare seeing it as an opportunity,
which, I mean, it's very fulfillingfor us as architects to see, that
you're coming out of this immenselydifficult situation, you know?
And then we can help guidethose people through a process
that is aspirational still.

Cormac Phalen (18:17):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (18:17):
so, you know, I, I do.
Hope we can also focus on that, youknow, that for the folks who are staying
in rebuilding, that they, they do getthis opportunity and while they might
not get exactly what they had, you know,to your point, Evan, I mean, you know,
wanting, wanting that sense of homeand that sense of place I think is, you
know, kinda the natural inclination.
But, but also that the flipside of it is that you do get.
To, to rethink what, what home is to you,what, what that means to you, and create

Evan Troxel (18:42):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (18:43):
So, so we are kind of trying to sell that message as well,
which is that we are here to, to, tobe your partner in that aspirational
process, and that we're here to facilitate

Evan Troxel (18:54):
think one of the, the big messages that, and I don't, people don't
think about this unless they maybe haveto, or maybe they're told, but it's like
you, you bought a place and then youfit your life into that place, right?
And, and this is now an

Cormac Phalen (19:06):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (19:06):
to say, now we're gonna make the life the, the place fit our life.
And that could be a very different.
A very different thing, and that'swhat architects are so good at.
So can you give us an idea of

Cormac Phalen (19:17):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (19:18):
are, kind of like ballpark, because I mean, Altadena
is an unincorporated area.
Is that correct?
I.
that's why you're talking abouthaving to deal with the county of LA
for all of the permitting I've doneLA County projects, not, not simple.
The the whole

Jessica Orlando (19:35):
Yep.

Evan Troxel (19:36):
lots of agency approvals,

Jessica Orlando (19:38):
a

Evan Troxel (19:38):
a little bit complex to navigate.
And so assuming like extra time kindof gets built into that because of that
complexity, but can you kind of talkabout what the timelines generally are
for approvals, but also building, likewhat are you just seeing right now?
Like if you were justto, to give us an idea.

Jessica Orlando (19:58):
For sure.
So we're, I, I, I will

Evan Troxel (20:00):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (20:01):
early days.
So the first, the first set ofplans just got approved this week.
So the first

Evan Troxel (20:06):
my gosh.

Jessica Orlando (20:06):
this week.

Evan Troxel (20:07):
Wow.

Jessica Orlando (20:07):
so it's still, yeah, it's still pretty early.
But one thing that is.
An incredible commitment that we arewaiting to see how it plays out is
that the county has committed to a twoweek review period for every plan check
submittal a one week turnaround time forback check submittals, which is if you've,
if you have done work in the county beforethe fires, it was usually six to eight

Evan Troxel (20:30):
I was gonna say, how did they do that then?
Where did that time go?
How did they cut that much out of it?
I don't understand how they did that.

Jessica Orlando (20:39):
Yeah, so part of what's happening is that they are,
they are creating two separate streams.
So everything else that'shappening in LA County keeps.
Going on its normal pathway.
But anything that's in the rebuildzones will be entered into a

Evan Troxel (20:52):
Hmm.

Jessica Orlando (20:52):
queue.
And so then that queue is obviouslydifferently resourced than
everything else that's happening.
So, they're, they're just, they've said,we're gonna prioritize this and throw all
of our resources, in, into that queue.
So.

Cormac Phalen (21:06):
Are they hiring like more reviewers?
I mean, any time.
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (21:11):
that.
Yeah.
So we we, we are all

Evan Troxel (21:14):
Ai.

Jessica Orlando (21:15):
to see just how the implementation goes.
Well, so this is

Cormac Phalen (21:18):
Well.

Evan Troxel (21:18):
Okay.

Jessica Orlando (21:19):
that is being talked about right now.
A big one that is happening.
So the city of LA actually justlast week, they introduced a pilot
program for self-certification.
So that would allow a licensed architectand or structural engineer to essentially
plan check their own drawings.
there are obviously a lot ofconsiderations around how that

(21:40):
might work and how long it will taketo implement a program like that.
But the county of LA is alsoplanning to introduce a motion
this coming week for the same.
So, they, you know, they are looking forcreative solutions to, how to expedite
the plan check process which I thinkwe all as professionals appreciate.

Cormac Phalen (21:56):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (21:56):
we are just you know, the proof is gonna be in
the pudding a little bit and we'regonna see, how it goes as time

Evan Troxel (22:01):
But that just totally makes sense too, right?
In a situation like this whereyou're a licensed professional and
you have insurance, you have like,

Cormac Phalen (22:11):
It

Evan Troxel (22:11):
are in place for a reason and people like you're,

Cormac Phalen (22:14):
right.

Evan Troxel (22:14):
only your reputation, your business, there's so
many things tied to this.
Being done well and being done right,that it's not like people are gonna

Cormac Phalen (22:22):
Oh yeah.

Evan Troxel (22:23):
Right?
Like the professionals are gonna step up.

Jessica Orlando (22:25):
Mm-hmm.
Right.

Cormac Phalen (22:26):
I mean, they, they would be risking their license and
of course, obviously, they're goingto do it right because they, this
is their, their life, so, yeah.

Jessica Orlando (22:36):
I think the, the biggest challenge that
I'm aware of is, is insurance.
So most premiums will go, likelygo up if folks are self certifying

Evan Troxel (22:46):
Oh wow.

Cormac Phalen (22:47):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (22:48):
liability.
So that

Evan Troxel (22:49):
Is there really additional liability?
I mean, I mean, I get it like on papermaybe, but in reality, like building

Cormac Phalen (22:57):
Well.

Evan Troxel (22:58):
licensed, right?
Like, I get it that it's an extraset of, like red tape that you have
to go through, and then thereforeI'm using air quotes, right?
Like, like there's.
More.
Yeah.
There's another step there of, of likechecks and balances, but at the same
time, like that seems to me like thatshould be a conversation that is had with

(23:18):
the agencies and with the professionalsand not just something that's
dictated through insurance companies.
Right.

Jessica Orlando (23:25):
Mm-hmm.

Cormac Phalen (23:28):
So, so many things to think about and talk about on that one.

Evan Troxel (23:31):
Right.

Jessica Orlando (23:32):
Yeah.
That's a whole other,

Evan Troxel (23:33):
That's a ball of

Cormac Phalen (23:34):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (23:34):
Yeah.

Cormac Phalen (23:35):
S.

Jessica Orlando (23:35):
Yeah.

Cormac Phalen (23:36):
let me, let me ask.
'cause now, you know, obviously just inthe current climate that we are living
in we have clients that are, their workis either slowing down or, you know.
Possibly going on hold because of,skyrocketing material costs or, skyrocket

(23:56):
or the lack of availability of materials.
How is the rebuild dealing withand facing that challenge as well?
I.

Jessica Orlando (24:07):
It's is a huge concern.
And I think one of the most interestingthings that we're starting to see
is that groups are, coalitionsto do things like bulk buying.

Cormac Phalen (24:18):
Okay.

Jessica Orlando (24:18):
If they kind of have a higher purchasing power coming together
as a block or as a neighborhood orunder one kind of development group
then they can, they a have a littlemore priority as opposed to a single

Evan Troxel (24:29):
Hmm.

Jessica Orlando (24:29):
homeowner.
But they can get

Evan Troxel (24:31):
Hmm.

Jessica Orlando (24:32):
For things, you know, if they're bulk buying rather than,
again, as, you know, kinda a single plot,just, trying to build a single home.
So, we're seeing somecreative ideas around that.
But the, I think one bigconcern is around labor as

Cormac Phalen (24:44):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (24:44):
you know, just the labor market here.
You know, I'm sure that we're gonna see aninflux of folks coming here to work here.
But of course that's gonna put morepressure on our housing market as well.
You know, so we

Cormac Phalen (24:54):
All right.

Jessica Orlando (24:54):
some of the existing problems that are already going on.

Cormac Phalen (24:57):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (24:57):
there's a lot of talk about prefabrication or modular as well.
And we, we've been talking with a fewfabricators who are actively building
factories in the LA area right now

Cormac Phalen (25:09):
Okay.

Jessica Orlando (25:10):
and meet the demand that's coming up.
Some folks are looking at optionslike, okay, if there's a modular
a DU that I can install on my

Evan Troxel (25:18):
And live in it.

Jessica Orlando (25:18):
I can get it

Evan Troxel (25:19):
Hmm.

Jessica Orlando (25:20):
months, live

Cormac Phalen (25:20):
Right.

Jessica Orlando (25:21):
go back and rebuild a primary structure.
You're now allowed todo that in LA County.
They allow the.
A DU to come before the primary structure.
So, there, there are some positivethings like that that, just through
innovation and new partnerships,new typologies, that I think are
gonna meet some of those needs.
But but I think at a certain point, right,tariffs on lumber, tariffs on aluminum,
those things are just gonna be, become a

Evan Troxel (25:42):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (25:43):
So.

Cormac Phalen (25:43):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (25:44):
I, I'm curious, I thought I heard something, so correct me
if I'm wrong, about building backsquare footage than what was lost
without any kind of additional fees.
I don't know if you Yeah,if you could explain that.

Jessica Orlando (25:58):
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
So, so both the city of LA andcounty of LA have provisions that
they call a, like for like, with

Evan Troxel (26:07):
Okay.
I.

Jessica Orlando (26:09):
they both allow an expansion kind of within that 10%.
But you, so essentiallythe baseline that's set is.
Through government documents, sothrough county assessor records,
through permit or plan check records.
So that sets your baseline and then youcan add 10% square footage on top of that.
The city of LA and the county ofLA are slightly different in terms
of how they define bulk or height.

(26:30):
LA County is a little morerestrictive than City of LA right now.
But then on the flip side county of LA hasallowed for provision, especially because
they've had, they have so many smallerhomes where they say you can add the 10%.
Or 200 square feet.
So any home that was less than 2000square feet, they can just claim the

Evan Troxel (26:48):
Okay.

Jessica Orlando (26:48):
square feet.
So, so there's a lot ofnuance to it, but, but yes.
But essentially there's some wiggleroom within the, like, the, like for
like rebuild that will not triggeradditional review or additional fees or

Evan Troxel (26:59):
does that then play into property taxes as well?
That just a quick, Okay.

Jessica Orlando (27:04):
It does.
Yeah.
So the way that the property taxesare working is that any additional
square footage that is built over whatyou are currently assessed at that
will get updated at the new tax base.
But everything, so if you had a1200 square foot home, for example,
and you build back a 1400 squarefoot home, only that extra 200
square feet will get assessed at.

(27:25):
The

Evan Troxel (27:25):
Okay.

Jessica Orlando (27:25):
space, everything else will stay at the tech space that

Evan Troxel (27:28):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (27:29):
at.

Cormac Phalen (27:31):
So, let me ask this.
'cause it seems interestinglycounterintuitive, you know, you, some of
the problems that were, they had, Evan,you were talking about this was, the
building separations and things like that.
So now you know you're allowedto build, you know, 10% more

Jessica Orlando (27:50):
Mm-hmm.

Cormac Phalen (27:51):
without, triggering a review.
What is, does, I mean, how.
How is that helping?
I'm trying to figure out how tophrase this without just, I dunno.
Help me out.
Help me.

Jessica Orlando (28:05):
I get where you're going

Cormac Phalen (28:06):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (28:06):
is, which is that I think we acknowledge that much of the
catastrophe was fueled by the fact thathomes were very close together, that they

Cormac Phalen (28:15):
Yes.
Thank you.

Jessica Orlando (28:15):
compliant with, with modern setbacks and things like that.
And unfortunately, yeah, the, those.
will remain.
So, essentially where yourhome was previously, you can
build it back where it was.
If you, if you're going to dosomething like add an A DU,

Cormac Phalen (28:31):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (28:31):
an A DU before, the A DU will have to comply
with modern setbacks, right?
So if there's anything you'readding or changing, you're
gonna have to comply with it.
But, but

Cormac Phalen (28:40):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (28:40):
the, like, for, like rebuild allows you to, to
rebuild your home substantially

Evan Troxel (28:45):
Wild.

Jessica Orlando (28:45):
yeah.

Cormac Phalen (28:46):
and I, I guess that's why I was a little flabbergasted when
I was trying to ask that question.
'cause I was like, something'snot mentally computing here.
That, you're able tobasically build life or like,

Jessica Orlando (28:55):
Mm-hmm.

Cormac Phalen (28:56):
Potentially increase by 10%.

Jessica Orlando (28:58):
Right.

Cormac Phalen (28:58):
yet there's still the problem with the way that
things are zoned, the setbacks andthings like that, that you know
are automatically somewhat kind of.
Putting you right back inthe same situation you were.
Yes.
You are building, with bettermaterials, you know, with the fire
resistant, materials and such, butthere's still, there's just so much.

(29:19):
Exactly.
Exactly.

Jessica Orlando (29:22):
Yep.
No, and I think we would agree.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think this isone of those areas where.
Trying to facilitatethe rebuilding process.
They don't wanna

Cormac Phalen (29:31):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (29:31):
that can of worms.
Right.
Because

Cormac Phalen (29:33):
right.
Right.

Jessica Orlando (29:34):
is that there are lots in Altadena especially, that are so
narrow that if you were to you know,

Cormac Phalen (29:40):
Uh uh.

Jessica Orlando (29:41):
modern setbacks, you

Cormac Phalen (29:43):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (29:43):
like, you couldn't build a home on it.
There's, there are

Cormac Phalen (29:45):
Mm, mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (29:46):
feet wide, like you couldn't meet

Cormac Phalen (29:48):
Right.

Jessica Orlando (29:48):
planning code.
So

Cormac Phalen (29:52):
Go ahead, Evan.
You were.

Evan Troxel (29:52):
I, I have a question kind of about the architectural community.
So is there, you're providing resourcesto architects through the chapter
there, and there's gotta be some kindof dialogue happening, it sounds like,
to get everybody up to date so thatthe right information's going out to
homeowners when they're being met with.
Being, paired up with an architect,but also then, then, then it's like,

(30:15):
okay, take the ball and run with it.
And you, I mean, you've gotta havethe right information going out so
that we're not running in circles.
But I'm also curious, likeafter that, are, are architects
getting together and are they.
Talking shop with each otherbecause man, there's way more
work than there's architects.
I'm, I would imagine, todo, to do the work, right?

(30:36):
And so this isn't gonna be a situationthat we see in so many firms today
where it's like, everything's a secret.
Everything's in, everything's,everything's a differentiator for us.
And, you know, all it'sour intellectual property.
It, it seems to me likethis is a huge opportunity.
come together as an industry or aprofession, however you wanna say

(30:58):
that, so that the information isbeing shared between professionals
as well, who are providing theseservices and making recommendations.
I'm just curious if that,if you see that happening.
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (31:10):
Yeah.
It's very informal right now,but it is definitely happening.
There's actually a slack thatwas formed that was kind of just
LA architects for rebuilding.
I think it's kinda slowed downa little bit more recently,
but especially in the first.
Two months or so after the fires.
It was just a huge repositoryof everyone dumping all the

Evan Troxel (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (31:30):
in one place.
that's, that has actually startedto be approximated a little bit
within our ask an architect group.
So, as I mentioned, we've got about 150architects from all over California.
The only requirement we haveis that they're licensed
in the state of California.
We actually have one person who'sin Nevada and one person who's in.
state, I can't remember.
But just as long as they holda license in California they

(31:51):
can participate in the program.
And we have just a Microsoft Teamschat where we are constantly updating
each other on all, all of the thing,the new motions that the county
is introducing new legislation atthe state level that's coming out.
You know, new interpretations thatwe're getting from the one stop
shop on certain code requirements.
So, so I think it happens informallyright now, which is really great.
And part of it is justbecause the speed is so.

(32:12):
Quick.
But I, I would hope that as we continueto move forward, we're seeing the
pace of that change kind of slow down.
I would hope that we canformalize that a little better.
You know, make sure that we're takingall of these changes that are happening
and getting those out to not only ourmembership, but to the community at large.
One of the events we're planning rightnow actually is, it's a kinda a legally
focused program for architects aboutall of the changes that have happened.

(32:36):
So, starting with offering pro bonoservices, just, you know, what to be
aware of the pitfalls to watch out for,making sure that they have access to
contracts, you know, to use if they'regonna provide pro bono services.
Then looking at thingslike self-certification.
You know, what kind of insurance areyou gonna need to have, what kind of
liability protection do you need to have?
You know, so trying to consider.
In this changing landscape and whenyou're working with a client that

(32:57):
you, client that you've never reallyhad the chance to work with before,
you know who's in this situation.
Just all of the legalramifications of that.
So, we're, we're trying to start to digestthose topics into, programs that we can
then push out to the public as well.
So, so I think it's a little bit of both.
There's some of that informal, kindof just dynamic discussion happening.
And then also how can weactually, that and get it into

Evan Troxel (33:19):
Seems like a great thing for, for the chapter or at least, and maybe
the California, the state chapter, right?
Because this is going, this isgoing to apply to other locations.
It just, it's in inevitable, butalso like there's no organizing
body that seems to wanna.
this kind of a thing, and it seemslike it's such a huge opportunity for
our profession to take advantage of.

(33:41):
I mean, obviously it's a tragedy,but also like that seems to be
the only way anything gets done.
Like things get updated.
It seems like it's a great placeor a great time for that to happen.
And, and so obviously there's, like yousaid, the first set of permits just got.
Approved.
And so there's gonna be more phases,there's gonna be new things learned all

(34:02):
along, all of those different phases.
And there's gotta be a way,

Jessica Orlando (34:06):
Right.

Evan Troxel (34:06):
said, like at least you have a Slack or a teams
like to, to help get that out.
But different people at different levelsof technological, yeah, like what they're
willing to check in on, like you said,like the, it's kind of tapering off as
far as like the participation in thosethings, but because nobody needs like
another thing to do, I get it, but at,at the same time, it's like there's,

(34:26):
there needs to be some kind of platform.
That, that makes this, I mean, that we,this is what the internet's for, like
that, that is literally what it's for isdisseminating this kind of information
and, and pulling it all together.
So I would hope that, that that'shappening and, and, and, and maybe
if there aren't architects who.
Who are dealing with clients inthe rebuild effort and all of that

(34:48):
kind of stuff specifically, butstill want to participate in this.
Maybe that's an opportunity liketo bring to our profession that way
to come and, and help organize andget people all on the same page.
So, because like some of this informationis gonna have an expiration date, right?
And, and so it is like, okay,that doesn't apply anymore.
What does apply?
And, and keeping everybody up todate seems like it's a huge job.

(35:11):
Like no doubt about it, right?

Cormac Phalen (35:14):
Hm.

Jessica Orlando (35:15):
Yeah, we've essentially just kind of created our, our own brain

Evan Troxel (35:18):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (35:19):
right now through our volunteers.
You know, everyone's just kind of keeping

Evan Troxel (35:21):
Yep.

Jessica Orlando (35:22):
ground and Yeah.
You know, we're just kind ofdocumenting it all together.
And yeah, I mean, to your point,the way that we we're handling it
now is we have a set of trainingdocuments for our volunteers.
So we, we have folks who everytwo to three weeks are updating.
Those documents regularly, inputtingall the new information and then it
gets pushed out to our volunteers,so, so I mean, we are kind of doing
that, but it's just again, sort of

Evan Troxel (35:42):
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (35:43):
level,

Evan Troxel (35:44):
I, I mean, and so may I, I'm just gonna throw it out there.
Like, like if you're listening to thisand you can't, you're not there and you're
not a California architect and you're not,but you're still interested in helping.
I think there are otheropportunities to help.
And so I would hope that they would,you would reach out to Jessica and,
and ask, but I mean, like, we need aWikipedia for architects for this, right?
And we need an office hours forarchitects for this, where it's like

(36:06):
people come together and, and swap.
latest information and the solutionsand the, the real world things that
are happening so that everybody has theopportunity to, to, to stay up, stay
up to date, but be on the same pagenot be dealing with old information.
So anyway, that, that's my soap box.
I would hope that wecould pull that together.

Jessica Orlando (36:28):
good one.
Yeah.
Well, and I will say at the nationallevel, AIA is working on they,
they're creating sort of morecollated resilience resources.
So I know that they, we've kind of beeninterfacing with them on, you know,
all the things that we've collected.
'cause they're, you know, there area million things out there right now
which is great, but also overwhelming.
And so they are trying to create, a morecurated and accessible set of materials

(36:53):
that is a web in a web-based tool.
So they are working on something to

Evan Troxel (36:57):
Nice.

Jessica Orlando (36:58):
right now.
But that is meant to be more broad,

Evan Troxel (37:02):
It's national,

Jessica Orlando (37:03):
you're

Evan Troxel (37:03):
right?

Jessica Orlando (37:03):
hurricane, if you're des Yeah.
You know, so, so at that level it's,kind of trying to provide a set of
resources at that 30,000 foot view.
But but I definitely agree withyou on the, you know, kind of more.
Crisis specific resources, right.
Because yeah, we're talking with the folksin Colorado who went through wildfires
and folks in Northern California, the

Evan Troxel (37:22):
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Orlando (37:22):
you know, 'cause we, we all are dealing with the same things,
you know, and various timescales.
So, so if we had a repositorythat was just about managing
wildfires, you know, that'd be

Evan Troxel (37:31):
It, it would be kind of a thinkless job, but at the same
time, like, so, so, so valuable.
So valuable.
Yeah.

Jessica Orlando (37:38):
Mm-hmm.
For sure.

Evan Troxel (37:39):
Well, I feel like we've, we've touched on almost everything.
Is there anything else that you wantto get the word out about to the
architects in Southern California andbeyond that would be useful for them?
Like, where can they goto, to find out more?
Where can they go to connect with you?
Or if there's any other topicsthat you think are useful?

Jessica Orlando (37:58):
Our, so our website is the best place to go.
We have both kind of a, an architectfocus page and a homeowner focus page.
So depending on who you are, we've gotresources focused for both of those.
Our email is wildfire support@aiapf.org.
So if you email that email, it'llgo to me and our, our executive
director, and we'll make sure itgets routed where it needs to go.

(38:19):
And if, and that's same goesif you wanna volunteer with us.
You know, I mentioned a lot of ourinitiatives, but we've also got
a bunch of other things going on.
And even just supporting all ofthese initiatives, like who creates
the graphics and the flyers and, whohelps us to, get it out on social
media and all of those other things.
So really, if you have any skillsetset and interest, we're looking
for help and we'd love to have you.

Evan Troxel (38:38):
Nice.
Alright, well thank you so much andwe'll put links to those two web pages.
Put that email address in ourshow notes for this so that people
don't have to remember that.
Or, you know, you just pull upthe, pull up the show notes and
you can click on those linksand get to those things quickly.
Good luck.
This is a huge, huge, huge

Cormac Phalen (38:56):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (38:57):
And thank you so much for coming on the

Cormac Phalen (38:58):
Yeah.

Evan Troxel (38:59):
to share what's going on and, and the latest information.
Appreciate it.

Jessica Orlando (39:03):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much

Cormac Phalen (39:04):
Thanks.
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