August 12, 2025 • 45 mins
In the very 6th episode Luke and Amber discuss the great outdoors, camping and how much to prepare to brave the elements. The duo will argue about how much to prepare for embracing the return to nature. Please listen/watch, vote and share, follow and share!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
Hello and welcome to Arguing Ever After.
I'm Luke and this is my wife Amber, who amazes me to this
very day. Hello.
Together we are the Lord and Lady who lock horns.
The count and Countess of contention.
The Duke and Duchess of Disagreement.
And the king and queen of quarrels.
(00:35):
We have been together since we both had pagers and we used
payphones to call each other back.
We have argued about practicallyeverything and yet we are still
together and happy. In this entertainment only
podcast, we will bicker about all things big and small and the
audience gets the final say on who the winner is.
We don't claim to be relationship experts by any
(00:58):
means. We will debate lots of things,
many of which are frequently submitted by our listeners.
So if you have a topic you want us non professionals to battle
over before you try it at home, please share it with us at
arguingeverafter@gmail.com. Perhaps this completely
unscientific method of letting the masses decide on who the
(01:19):
winner is can settle your fight before you even have it.
And so here we are, at our very 6th episode.
Number six, I'm going to run outof fingers at some point.
I hope not. I mean, let's keep the 10 you
have. I'll try, but we'll have to use.
We have together. We can go up to like 20.
(01:40):
So. If we get to our 21st episode,
we'll have to bring out toes. We use symbols.
Oh, toes. We're not.
We're not. No, sorry, no toes for you.
No, not happening. I guess too far.
So this weekend we just got backfrom a trip up north and we go
up north, not regularly, but maybe a couple times a year.
(02:03):
We have family, her sister livesup there and up north, just so
you people know who maybe don't know us or live nearby in
Minnesota. We have an up north, which is
the northern half of the state and we border Canada.
So it's like mostly a giant forest at some point.
So that's where we go and we like it.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun to get away a little bit from the
(02:25):
cities for a lot of folks. I really do enjoy seeing my
sister and some wonderful friends that we have who live
again in practically Canada. So we we get to know it better
and better every time we go. And we had a really great trip
and we had some friends along too.
So it was, it was a wonderful time.
(02:46):
And it's just, it's always amazing how just getting away
just for a little bit can just, well, recharge you a little.
But then also, you know, travel is always, always its own thing.
So I don't know but. I love to travel.
I wish I could travel like all the time and just bring my life
(03:07):
and my house and my bed and my pets.
There's a lot of stuff I want tobring with.
This could be a problem. I really just want to, but what
is what is the word I'm looking for?
Where you magically are in one spot to another?
Teleport. Yes, I want to teleport.
Back to sci-fi again. Except for you're right though,
(03:29):
because you I don't think that there's so much stuff you have
to bring with that probably wouldn't work for for anything
really. So.
Unless we had a massive teleportation tonight, because
also I'd like to bring our friends sometimes.
Yeah, no offense. I want to bring you sometimes.
Well, so we were up north, whichis again what we call it.
(03:53):
It's we are north, but we're up north of our north and almost
Canada. And one of the reasons why
people go there is it's really beautiful and there's a lot of
outdoorsy things to do that thatisn't necessarily a reason why I
go up there. But this last time, for sure,
there was a lot of fun had by others.
(04:14):
The other thing we like to do when we're up north, you can do
it down South, you can do it anywhere.
But when we go up north, we liketo go off roading a little bit
and. We have a Jeep.
I, I kind of like the idea of being outside, but in a enclosed
space so that the bugs can't getto me and you can just kind of
(04:35):
drive through the woods. It's it's nice for sure.
See, and I don't mind if we put the top down on the Jeep, put a
little bug spray on and just hope we don't get eaten alive.
You have to put bug spray on andyou will still get bug bites
when you're. That's true when you're in
northern Minnesota, but. Mosquitoes are intense up north.
They are, and they're hungry. There's not that many people,
(04:57):
you know that's true. A few of the people though are
fans of our podcast, so shout out to our Up North listeners or
watchers however you're consuming.
That was great. All of you almost Canadians.
Almost Canadians good work, yes,and when we were up there, of
course, you know, we talked to acouple people about, hey, well,
we have this podcast and so you know, maybe we'll have some new
(05:19):
listeners from there as well. And I and I hope so, but there's
always a little bit of a contention between us as to what
we do when we're up there. You know, there's other, there's
a lot of cute little shops and things like that that I've never
been to that I would like to go to.
But it's, it's when we are in the day hours, it's about being
(05:44):
outside and not doing the stuff that we could do at home.
Are you talking about like the little kitschy stores?
I love kitschy stores. Those are my favorite kind of
stores. I love going into a store that
has something that you just won't find everywhere.
And we don't have a lot of that at all nearby.
It's a lot of, you know, a lot of stores that well, I love the
(06:08):
kitschy stores. While we were up there, I did
happen to go into Target. That was the only store I went
to, which is funny because even though, you know, we we drove
where we were going and I filledup with everything I thought I
needed, I still happened to haveto go to Target.
And it helped me out too, because one of the things that
(06:29):
when we go off roading, so up north in Minnesota, a lot of it
is and was iron ore mining territory, because there's iron
in the soil, it turns the soil bright orange.
So when you like, walk around upthere.
In some places, in some. Places like out in the woods, if
(06:52):
it's been very rainy and you're near 1 of the iron ore deposits,
the literally the mud is like unnaturally orange.
Like you see it and you're like,what's going on with this
radioactive Simpsons episode? Call back to one of our podcasts
anyway, like you have to get stuff that you're ready to sort
(07:15):
of ruin clothing wise. And I forgot my off roading
shoes, which are shoes that you know, like it's like your grass
cutting shoes. It's I bring those, but I forgot
mine. So part of the Target run was
Luke had to get some emergency very inexpensive shoes.
And shout out to Target for having some very inexpensive
shoe options for a guy that go walk around in the mud.
(07:36):
The other part of the Target runis that the world hates me,
nature hates me, and I forgot myallergy medication at home, so
there was no way I was going outinto the wild without having
that allergy medication. It would have been a very
miserable trip for, yeah, everyone, not just me.
So. Shout out to future potential
(07:58):
sponsor Target. Just want you guys.
Yeah, yeah, I really. Appreciate good work there and
if you ever need our help you just you hit us up.
Yeah, I appreciate you being there when I when I need you the
most when when the sinuses are all congested and you just know
that it's going to be miserable of that.
So, but just thinking about whenyou go even on a vacation or
(08:22):
something, all the things that you need to bring, you know, and
there are people who are choosing to do more than just
like, I mean, we stayed at a hotel.
There are people who go up northand they're camping.
And I mean at a hotel, at least they have your towels and they
have all these like they have a lot of the stuff that you need.
(08:44):
But when you're camping, like you have to carry all of that
stuff. So I, I'm definitely glad that
we don't go camping when we're up there because I, well, I
don't know how I would carry allthe things it.
Depends on the level of camping.There's also the new fad.
Maybe it's not new glamping where I don't even know really
(09:06):
what that means, but I feel likeit's you have, do you have like
an RV? Is it?
I don't know if that's a. Requirement, but it would be for
me or is it? Like you rent a tiny cabin that
has running. Why is that called glamping and
I don't know. We will.
Have some listeners who know what glamping is.
Please tell us in the comments because we literally don't know.
No, I have no idea. It's glamorous camping, yes,
which for you is a Does not compute I.
(09:28):
No situation. No, I don't.
There's no. Glamorous camping there's no.
Glamorous camping and you know, like just the amount of things
that you would need to make it glamorous.
I just I was before. Fergie like camping because she
is glamorous. She.
Is glamorous glamorous but beforehand before we started
(09:53):
talking this this episode has been in the discussion since
almost immediately because this camping is one of those things
that we live on different levelsof existence with I.
But before this episode, because, you know, I am the
researcher of the two of us, no one would have guessed it.
Yeah, but I was looking and there were a few things that I I
(10:17):
looked at. And one of the things I was
looking at was it was talking about 30 essential items for
camping. And I that sounds.
Like a lot, but it might be right, yeah.
That's a lot of things to remember.
Do you? Remember I forgot.
My, I forgot my allergy medication.
That's true. I take it every single day.
(10:38):
Yeah. And they're like you take it.
In the cities where we live, forpollen in the cities.
And then we went up into the forest, Yeah, where there's like
a lot more. There's a lot.
More of all the things that justmake make me not be able to
breathe. But like that one, like one
thing for me was that on. The list.
No. So there's. 31 essential items
(10:59):
well for. Me, there'd be a lot more than
31 because actually while I was looking at the list, most of the
items I was like, I would have never thought of ever bringing
anywhere. They just say a.
Pocket knife? I bet it did, no?
They had a all in one tool or something like that which had
lots of tools in it and but I don't know why I would need it.
(11:19):
And they also, the other thing Ithought was interesting is they
had like lighting and that that was an essential thing, like a
Lantern. No.
Like string lights and stuff. String lights, well, a.
String clip on I don't know thisis.
For glamping, no. Well, I have no idea 'cause I
have. We don't know what.
That is, I don't. I don't what else do you?
Remember, this is interesting. They had.
(11:41):
Thermal blankets thermal. Blanket.
Why would you just have a sleeping bag?
I don't. Know this is the world out there
in the woods is unknowing. The other thing I saw that they
had was well water. They had the thermal blanket and
a waterproof blanket and I don'tknow why they can't make a
(12:02):
thermal waterproof blanket and just solve both those problems,
do they think? You're camping in a lake.
Well, up north in the Boundary Waters, and it didn't say this
wasn't just for up north. This was just camping in general
anywhere and probably any place that you would go and, and there
(12:22):
was a tent and they had a hammock and and they had a
couple of items and I was like, that's pretty genius.
And I don't know if you'd need it necessarily for camping.
I object. To hammock.
I mean, I think it'd be nice, but I don't know that I'd call
it essential. What, do you guys just sit on a
rock all the time? Yeah.
Oh, that sounds pretty awful. OK.
Maybe I maybe I'm wrong I guess.They also did have like, you
(12:45):
know, a fire starter thing, which I don't, I don't know what
that thing's called, but a quickstart for Flintstick, Sure, a
Flintstick rub a little. Thing and it sparks in there.
Oh, it was. It was more sophisticated than
that. It was called like fire start a
lighter. No, no, not a lighter.
I don't know. I have no idea, 'cause again, I
(13:09):
when I go out into nature, I'm going to a hotel to go to
nature. It's a short.
Trip. Well, yeah.
Oh, it's short duration. No, I have no desire to do an
overnight outside. That's awful.
I I really don't. I don't like when there's a bug
in my house. Fair.
(13:30):
So I mean, when you're outside, there's bugs everywhere.
Well, Oh yeah, where isn't therebug I.
Mean, I guess technically that'strue.
We well, when we were off roading and we were in the woods
off roading and I don't know if anyone would I don't I consider
it in the woods. I don't know if you consider it
(13:51):
in the woods. I don't know if woods folks
would consider it in the woods. The.
Woods people. The woods people, I don't know
if they would, but it was woodsy, but there were bugs
everywhere. You can't be like, you roll down
the window, they're just in there.
There they are. Oh, those biting flies and all
sorts of just so many mosquitoes.
(14:11):
But they're just wanting to get wherever the human is and it's
you're outnumbered. A lot.
Massively outnumbered instead of, you know, like the one bug
in my house, you know, and the one bug in my house I would be
happy to like catch and set free.
And in general, I say, if you'reoutside, that's where you live
(14:34):
and I don't need to kill you. But I am, I am murderous when it
comes to mosquitoes for sure. I just like, that's the one
thing that I'm like, I have 0 sympathy for you.
You're trying to eat me and thatlittle.
Vampire. Aren't they like the?
Deadliest creature I think. Technically, yes, yeah.
They spread all sorts of awful diseases.
(14:55):
I they're, they're horrible, horrible.
And you know, the other thing too with being outside is, you
know, the weather's unpredictable, right?
Like you can plan, you know, months in advance cause a lot of
times you have to if you're going camping or something like
that, which I don't do, but you have to plan that.
(15:15):
And where we would be going in the up N Minnesota is like it,
it could be snowing, it could beraining, who knows.
When we were there, there was like some sort of pretty large
storm system that went through. We didn't necessarily hear, but
if we were out camping our tent would have gotten really wet.
(15:39):
That's true. But we got to stay nice and dry.
But I think there were like severe storms.
I have no idea really what happened 'cause I was in the
nice we did. Have fire alarms for no reason
we. Did that that happened at our
hotel but it wasn't. I would definitely prefer a fire
alarm to having a tent that is soaked in severe thunderstorm,
(16:03):
torrential rain type of type of scenario that they were talking
about which you could not plan for seven months in advance.
It's just weather be weather. I don't know.
I haven't done any research as you pointed out.
I don't know. I know that they make like
different types of like base, like stuff you put under your
(16:25):
tent, like there's always a tarp.
So maybe they make like hardcoretarp, like if you're going
during the rainy season or something.
We have campy friends we could ask them.
We do have our friends who camp and every once in a while they
are really curious and if we'll go with them.
And the answer from me is alwaysno, not happening.
(16:50):
If there's a hotel nearby, I will meet you wherever it is
that you are. But I like to sleep in a bed.
Beds are nice. I I.
Really like beds I like I like electricity a lot I like showers
oh that's the other thing one ofthe essential 30 items was a
(17:12):
portable hot shower and I I it was this is for.
Glamping. It looked like a a like a
freaking IV bag that it said it was heated by the sun.
Sun heated. By the sun I was.
Blocking ears. She was like.
This. Yeah, Yep.
Sorry, trying to get volts. Over here.
(17:33):
Heated by the solar. Heated.
This is for sure glamping. I've been camping a bunch of
times so far. Zero of the things you mentioned
are on the list. So you didn't have like one of
those cooler picnic table combos?
A what it looks. Like a really bad, it was a
(17:53):
cooler where you had like you, you moved some of the things and
it turned into a cooler. Table combo, yeah.
Yeah, I mean. OK so I've done different types
of camping. Admittedly all of this was when
I was younger, but. The world has changed,
certainly. I'm sure.
But like I've done some BoundaryWaters camping and like you have
(18:17):
to carry physically all of your gear and there's no car or
motorized boat available to get you to the places you're going
to go. So you have a canoe and you have
huge backpacks. So like you're not carrying a
cooler on your back or a picnic table or a solar powered shower
(18:41):
or like I said it. Looks like AIV bag OK.
I have done camping where we've brought like, you know,
inflatable air mattresses and coolers and stuff because
there's campsites that you can drive up to and then you walk a
little bit to the campsite itself.
Maybe that would fit some of these items.
But I've yet so far I'm like I think I'm old for 0 for however
(19:05):
many of the things you said on any camping thing that I've done
or been a part of. There was special toilet paper,
which really isn't toilet paper if you don't have a toilet.
Well, that's true. Then it's just, well, I guess I
was going to say bathroom tissue, no.
There's no back. Just butt wipes at that point,
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I thought that was
(19:27):
interesting. I would have never thought that
you need a special kind of toilet paper.
Yeah. There has to be no toilet.
There is no toilet. Biodegradable, compostable,
something like that. I mean if.
There's not even a toilet. Why not even?
A porta potty I. Oh and those are awful.
I hate porta potties. I'm pretty everyone.
Hates those. I know they're awful.
I mean every once in a while youmight find one that's like
(19:49):
fresh, never been used or or whatever, I don't know, freshly
cleaned or the beginning of a season.
But man, I just. I still would prefer that though
to no toilet. OK.
I would be the opposite. OK, well we then.
Again, we're different. We are.
We are built a little differently, but I would I am
(20:11):
and forever will be preferring some sort of toilet, which is
why I don't want to camp. One of the reasons I don't camp.
There's also don't like that youjust you've.
Been camping like how many timesthough?
Once. That was enough.
It was I. Didn't even know.
I probably knew that and forgot because it's like a traumatic
(20:31):
memory to think that you've onlyever been camping once and wrote
it on. I mean we.
Tented in the backyard, but not in my backyard.
We didn't have a tent, but I hada friend who had a tent and so
we would, I mean. Backyard camping still counts,
but it's not camping camping. So when I was a kid, my mom and
dad worked really hard to get meto go to a Girl Scout camp.
(20:56):
Oh. Like our our daughter who's a
Girl Scout girl. Scout camps, yes.
So that's what I did and and it was just wet, even though it
wasn't everything was damp. It was buggy where I was
camping. We did have cots and like the
cots had mice in them and all sorts of I mean, I don't know if
(21:18):
my cot did. Maybe it was a maybe it was a
myth, but I'm I'm pretty sure soyou don't.
Even know if it's true I. Think it's true 'cause you would
hear things moving in the middleof the night and that was.
Very normal. I don't.
Like that nature? Moves all 24 hours of the day.
I don't. I really don't want something
(21:39):
moving around me that is not trained.
OK, like. I we have a dog and a cat and
they are allowed to move around me.
They're allowed. To move but.
They also do not see my human body.
Like, OK, I get the animals whenyou're camping are really being
(21:59):
opportunistic. Like a bear wants your food and
they know that you've got curious.
A bear would be opportunist, so would a raccoon be
opportunistic? Yeah.
And my deer. A deer might be curious.
Oh. I would think a deer is
confused. They I don't, I have no idea if
they'd wanna hang out with you. But like our animals, they, they
(22:21):
know that we're gonna give them food.
And so we have a a mutual relationship there instead of
just I'm going to take from you and make sounds and and maybe I
really do like animals, but I don't wanna I don't want to have
animals that I don't know are there be there.
(22:42):
You know, that sounds not interesting and I don't want
something crawling by me. And we were.
What about? Cute little chipmunks, they're.
Cute during the day. OK, I.
Like to see animals during the day when I.
All of them at night should justgo to bed.
They. Should or like I wouldn't mind
(23:04):
watching them from a place whereI am in a.
Like the zoo? Yes and I time 0 would be nice,
but I just don't want them hanging out when I'm not
expecting I want to see them. I do really want to see them
just not at night. Raccoons are cute.
I love raccoons Bears are cute. Wolves, wolves are they look
(23:29):
like dogs. I've said that before and I'll
say it again. They're absolutely adorable.
You know it's. Not cute possums.
No. And I know that there are people
who really love possums and theydo really good things.
They eat ticks and they don't carry rabies, but they are a
little terrifying. We used to have possums at our
last house or a possum. I'm not actually sure how many
(23:53):
there were, but they really enjoyed being around.
It's they really enjoyed being around our yard.
And so we had to look at those things and they had the beady
red eyes and the long tail. I mean, they just like, yeah,
not my, not my deal, but I know that they serve an important
purpose. I wonder if they.
Visit campsites. Why wouldn't they?
(24:14):
They like they like people food.I have no.
Idea we. Had a possum at this house too
years ago and I did research to see how to not be a a good host
to possums and stuff and it wasn't in our house, he was in
our yard I guess. And so then I figured out what
you need to do to not have them move.
Them out. That is what you needed to do,
(24:35):
actually. Yeah, I assisted the.
Possum in moving out, yes. He he went very far away and
he's not come back. So but those are just like some
really good reasons. The other thing I don't I'm not
really into camping is the food thing, right.
You were talking about you, you have to bring the cooler or you
can't bring a cooler. Well, you.
(24:56):
Just have to bring stuff that, you know, like you're not
bringing like Michelin star meals with you.
You're, you know, canned, cannedgoods.
That's a, you know. Fine with canned goods.
Dried foods, dried fruit for instance, that's a good one to
bring. Camping, trail mix, stuff like
nuts and and I. Don't mind that, but I'm I don't
(25:20):
know what I'm going to want to eat in seven days or three or
however long you're camping for.And so for me like well even on
our trip like I grabbed 3 bags worth of groceries.
That's true. Because I want to ensure that I
have whatever it is that I'm needing at that time.
(25:41):
If it's sweet, if it's savory, if it's a little bit of both, if
it's juicy, like all sorts of those things.
And that would be, I mean, just bringing all of our stuff up to
the hotel seems like a lot of work.
And then you have to bring it toa campsite.
That's awful. And I, I was also 'cause I was
trying to do a little bit of research and one of the things I
(26:02):
was reading is there's like the 333 rule and the 444 rule and
the, there's all these number rules, but it's very confusing.
What's? What's what's the 333 and the
four four? It's like the.
Distance that your camp needs tobe from a trail at a minimum.
And I don't like remember if it was 300 yards, I have no 300
(26:27):
feet or three feet or what it was.
But then like it talked about building your camp into a
triangle and that that's proper.And I was like, this is so much
flipping work. But I feel like if you knew the
things, you would just know the things.
But how do you determine what's the right number to follow all
of these rules? Do you?
(26:48):
Remember the other Threes? No.
What about? The Fours, I think.
It was the same thing. They're just like now.
Now we're using. The number is that.
If you're building a square shape campsite.
No 'cause it was still only 3/4.OK, I feel.
Like if you and if you and I were to go camping, you haven't
done enough research and I will have expected that you know what
(27:10):
you're doing, but you haven't heard of any of the essential
items that they say that you must have to go camping, I mean.
If I was gonna go on a camping trip, I would certainly prepare,
but I also know that you're not coming with.
That's that's pretty true. You also don't know these rules.
I feel like there are people wholisten to camping that know all
(27:31):
of these rules. They've done the work, they're
prepared. It's not just go into the woods
and throw up a tent. That even sounds like more than
I'd want to do. I mean.
If you're at one of the campsites that's near to a
vehicle, even if you've, let's say you've hiked into the
campsite and it's even, I don't know, half a mile away, that's a
(27:53):
pretty far distance. But you could like pretty easily
within a, you know, shortish walk, get back to your vehicle
if you needed something or it wasn't an emergency.
The camping that I have in my brain, the most memorable that
I've done in my life is the one where literally we like went
into the woods so far that therewas no like no outside services.
(28:19):
The only hope for rescue you would have would be like a
helicopter. There's no cell phone service.
Go. Where the only hope for rescue
is a helicopter. Well, because.
You don't plan for death or dismemberment you, you're
supposed. To plan for those things I
don't. Think so.
I feel like you're supposed to be.
Prepared for camping. This is why people die when
(28:42):
camping, because they're not prepared.
The number one reason is exposure, but I'm it's not like,
you know, does. This mean that that level of
adventure camping falls into thecategory of Luke is a daredevil.
It does. That's hilarious.
I I. Don't know, 'cause I think when
(29:03):
your kid and your parents just take you places, you don't
necessarily think that it's dangerous, but it, it is.
It's, I mean, if you look at take a look at any of the
national parks numbers, it's pretty, I mean.
I mean, I've survived a NationalPark, I should get a bumper
sticker. I mean, I I've.
Survived camping in a National Park.
(29:25):
All right, there you go. Let's TM it and add a little
logo which we're working on and put it on there.
I just it. There's just so much that you
need to do that we're I. It doesn't sound to me like you
even you'd be a bad camping partner.
That's offensive. I'm not going camping everyone.
(29:45):
I've ever camped with has not told me that I was a bad camping
partner. When was the?
Last time I went camping. Few years ish ago with our kid
at Girl Scouts. Oh I mean I OK.
Also what's the point of gettingaway to just be with a bunch of
people too? I don't understand.
This Hey, you just offended likeall of the listeners.
(30:07):
Why would you want to go be withpeople like?
Everybody, it's like, oh, it's so great to get away from it
all, but then they're campsites and there's like hundreds of
people around and you're like, there's like hundreds.
Of people that they book. Out you.
Have been camping as you admitted one time.
And. Whatever happened was
(30:28):
impressionable enough for you tonever, ever want to do it again.
And I'm telling you as a person who is not even an experienced
camper, but certainly more experienced than you.
Like, there are not ever hundreds of people camping with
you. Unless you're going to one of
these like it's a music festivaland it's near the woods, so all
the people are going to bring a tent.
(30:50):
That's not what we're talking about.
Most. Campsites have campsites and
they're like numbered and they're like sub 2025, maybe 30
and that's like it. I don't understand what you just
said about the. The sites and they're like
spread out over a so if. There's 30 sites and you have a
family of five. There's 150, no?
(31:10):
No, but they spread them out. It's not like they're it's row
houses in San Francisco or something.
It's like each campsite is just far enough away from the other
that like, you might be able to see their campfire at night, but
you're not like hearing their conversations or watching them
cook their food or, you know, this is.
No different than if I go to a hotel where there's 150 people
(31:33):
and I see that they exist, but I'm not paying attention to
that. Actually a lot different I.
I don't know. I don't know.
I just, I really think that there's so much more to what
you're saying than just the and what people say about that whole
simplicity of being out there and the nature and all of that.
You can visit nature, 'cause I do this.
(31:54):
Yeah, you. Can and.
Leave. You can.
That's what I like to do. That's true.
The staying there overnight and it's just, it's so much work you
were talking about. You can go back to your car and
get something if you wanted, right?
If I went back to my car, I'm leaving.
You're gone. Why?
Would I have just walked three hours to get back to my car?
(32:14):
Just It's fine. I just go home.
Go home. Amber, you're not.
You don't need to be there. I really don't want to do that
at all. So.
So, Luke, let me ask you a question.
And now, the moment you've all been waiting for in this corner,
(32:35):
we have Amber claiming to weigh in at 135 lbs.
And today she brings a little side eye which she might need
today. In this corner we have Luke
claiming to weigh in at 185 lbs with beautiful, glorious red
(32:55):
beard. It's red.
And he is coming in today at 3 losses and two wins.
And he's gonna. Trying to catch up.
I I, you know, if you ever get into one of those fights for
you, like I know I might lose. This might be his, his leveling
(33:20):
playing field here. But really, the real thing is
Luke, let me ask you a question.Go ahead is.
Camping a vacation? Does camping count as a
vacation? Yeah, absolutely.
Not even a question. I mean, so we've discussed some
(33:41):
of the insurance and outs and potentially hilarious essential
items that you need to bring. But I think I mean like 1, by
definition of vacation, I think for most people is leaving your
normal life, not even necessarily that far away, but
geographically you go somewhere else and you do something else
(34:06):
for a short amount of time anywhere from who knows, a few
days to a week or or more. I mean, you know, some people
are able to take multi week longvacations.
And but more importantly than the specifics of it, I think
that camping has been and will continue to be a vacation for
(34:29):
most people. Maybe, I mean maybe even more
than like a vacation that you would consider a vacation
because in camping, you're not only getting away from the
normal stuff like work and school and typical obligations,
but you're leaving the quote trappings of modern life behind
(34:53):
intentionally. You're like saying, OK, I don't
want electricity and a roof overmy head and I and I don't want
running water and I don't want city lights.
I want to go far enough away so that I can pitch a tent in the
wood in the quiet of nature and at night fall asleep to the
(35:13):
sound of the trees swishing in the wind and the various life
outside that's scurrying about or buzzing through the air.
The call of an owl, for instance, is pretty cool to
hear. And then when you wake up and
you enjoy your day, you're goingto do it just the simplest way
you can, which is you're going to strap your boots on and go
(35:37):
for a hike. You're going to go find a nice
body of water somewhere you might maybe be camping where
there's a canoe or a kayak and you're going to, you know, have
a little water time or you're going to like intentionally plan
out other stuff people do while they're camping.
There's so many options. And you're going to enjoy the
(35:58):
other things that are normal about camping, like campfires.
Who doesn't make AI mean? Who doesn't like a nice wood
fire? And you know, you've got like a
little camp stove and you make your simple meal and there's not
a lot of fancy to it. You could bring a couple of
seasonings, but you're not you're not going to bring your
whole kitchen lamp, dude. And.
(36:22):
Your salt? Yeah.
And pepper, sure. And other stuff.
I mean, you can obviously bring more and I mean, I think for a
lot of people it is that it's getting away.
It's getting to a place where your cell phone doesn't work
anymore. And you know what you're going
to do at night after the the activity of the day has happened
(36:43):
and you're not yet quite at bedtime.
Maybe you have a like a little camp light Lantern and you read
a little book. Maybe you have a quiet
conversation with a loved one and you talk about life and the
future and you know you do that while you're encompassed in the
stars and, and it's just a, it'sa magical experience.
(37:06):
It really is. Magical experience.
So lutely. Magical experience.
I mean, I've been to the Magic Kingdom.
OK. That's a magical experience.
That's not camping. No, no.
But I mean, like, this does not sound like a vacation to me.
All of these things you're talking about sound like work,
(37:30):
like building a fire. I can build a fire at home too,
right? Like I don't have to go anywhere
to build a fire. You were talking about food.
And maybe if you carry with you salt and pepper and another
seasoning you, you cook your ownfood, which I do that every day,
right? Well, OK, I don't do it every
(37:53):
day, but I cook a lot. I cook a lot.
So, so the food thing that's that's not vacation.
When I'm on vacation, I, I have 0 desire to cook on vacation.
And then like The Walking, you can walk anywhere.
That's not. I mean I get what you're saying,
but the point of The Walking to a campsite is to get where
(38:16):
you're going to then put up yourhousing, right?
For me on a vacation, the housing already exists.
I don't have to build a house. It exists so I if I I would
think building a house is working, not vacation it's.
A. It's a little bit of work, yeah.
It's a. Lot of bit of work and again,
(38:37):
now camping with you, I don't know 'cause you have not, You do
not know the rules of camping according to what I've learned
about camping. So I don't know that you're even
going through as much as what you should be doing and like,
again, forgetting something, then what?
Then what? You know that it's just you
don't have whatever it is you need for, again, someone like
(39:01):
me, the allergy medication, likewhat am I going to do?
Just freaking wait. That sounds awful.
Well, all of the things you say that are the nice things about
camping, being in nature, all ofthose things, looking at the
stars, having a fire, you can doall of those things on a
vacation that doesn't involve camping.
(39:23):
So the work that is needed that that is required to do the
camping is where I'm saying it'snot a vacation.
It's a choice. People make the choice to go
camping, but you've wanted me togo camping with you before and I
have no desire to take any of myvery limited although better now
(39:45):
but limited PTO, to go work harder in the woods to have a
lower quality of life, uncomfortable bed, no
electricity, no shower, terriblefood, and whatever I can carry
on my back like. No it is not.
That is not a vacation. That sounds stressful.
(40:08):
And awful just so that you can sleep like you're just looking
for all your whole time is dealing with your essential
items, right? Like your food, shelter and
clothing, right? Like that's that's what you got
a vacation. They've already done all that
for you. You don't have to think about
those things. Maybe you should bring your own
clothes, but you can buy clothesif you're vacationing somewhere.
(40:31):
You definitely. Want to bring your own clothes
on any vacation? Yes, but.
You don't have to worry about, you know, it's you're probably.
Not going to be able to buy any if you're camping though, no.
You're in trouble. You're in trouble if you lose
your shirt. Now you're cold.
If you lose. Your shirt, if you dropped your,
if you dropped your hoodie, you know however many miles away and
(40:53):
you don't know where that is nowyou're cold.
I'm just saying camping is not aa vacation and I have 0 desire
to do it. That is clear in my case is that
camping does count as a vacation.
The last little bit that I just want to add just because let it
(41:15):
be always got 40. 5 minutes to talk about camping little.
Just a little. It's way cheaper.
That's another argument. No, because you.
Need the 30 essential items, they're not cheap.
I was looking at those items, they are not cheap.
You you're probably right, you do need other supplies and
things to go camping. Yes, and if.
(41:36):
You had to buy them every time. It would probably be expensive.
Maybe it would be as expensive as a hotel.
I don't actually know. Well, if I had to do a camping
or a staycation, I would easily 150 million percent choose a
staycation. But I.
Think. Those are my only two choices,
that being. Said I don't think a staycation
(41:57):
is a vacation. It's.
More as because like. You're staying where you are.
Yeah, but I feel like you got togo somewhere.
You're going to vacation well. Vacate.
It Yeah, I was going to say the root of the word, do an old
thing like my dad does, but we'll leave it alone.
Yeah, we'll. Let that happen.
Well, I don't know. OK, so the question has been
(42:17):
asked and the question has been answered.
Yeah. Now it's up to you folks.
Yeah, you're going to want to goto the Spotify polls if you'd
like. We've left them open a little
bit longer for folks because people have said they've wanted
to vote in there like to the official vote.
However, we do take any commentsand any I mean like when people
(42:41):
comment we on. Whatever social you're on, yeah.
We take that as official vote you send.
In an e-mail, whatever the that still counts we.
Still count that and. Unfortunately, I'm somehow
losing he's. Losing maybe?
This is the turn of the tide, this.
Could be I know a lot of a lot of friends that we have enjoy
(43:01):
camping and and the push that they always have to get me to go
is like you all would be miserable if I went so.
Miserable so. Not just me.
I mean, I would be miserable, but I would not and I would try
not to I feel like. You would be like one of those
cartoon strips in the Sunday paper from when we were kids
with like the person that got progressively worse through the
(43:23):
series of cartoons. If you ever can't.
Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I've seen this
cartoon, but I would be. It would be worse, and it would
be worse for everybody around me.
So to save everybody the anguish, I will officially hear
on the on the podcast, say I will pass on any camping
(43:43):
experience. I'll go outside with you all and
I will enjoy the wonderful things nearby, nearby the
camping places. But I will not be doing that
with you. So my answer is no, camping is
not a vacation. But you can vote on our podcast
through Spotify. I you actually can now find our
(44:07):
Spotify, our podcast on iHeartRadio, but it's not the
video, but you could watch it onSpotify and then listen to it on
iHeartRadio and see like, hey, how does it sound?
Is it any better or whatever? But share it, yes.
Download it download. It like.
It follow follow it, yes. Well, I hope you.
(44:30):
Like it too, I hope I mean. Yeah, yeah, it would be nice.
And then tune back in for sure. 100%, yeah.
To share it with everyone. If you thought of something
while listening or watching to this, or just in life in general
that you think we ought to argueabout, please send it in.
(44:52):
We love suggestions. We've already done one or two
podcasts that were someone else's idea, and you could send
them right to our e-mail, whichisarguingeverafter@gmail.com.
Yes, yes. And we thank you for tuning in
and we'll thank Quirky for giving us this wonderful theme
music. Heck.
Yeah, see y'all next time. Bye.
Hello and welcome to Arguing Ever After.
I'm Luke and this is my wife Amber, who amazes me to this
very day. Hello.
Together we are the Lord and Lady who lock horns.
The count and Countess of contention.
The Duke and Duchess of Disagreement.
And the king and queen of quarrels.
(00:35):
We have been together since we both had pagers and we used
payphones to call each other back.
We have argued about practicallyeverything and yet we are still
together and happy. In this entertainment only
podcast, we will bicker about all things big and small and the
audience gets the final say on who the winner is.
We don't claim to be relationship experts by any
(00:58):
means. We will debate lots of things,
many of which are frequently submitted by our listeners.
So if you have a topic you want us non professionals to battle
over before you try it at home, please share it with us at
arguingeverafter@gmail.com. Perhaps this completely
unscientific method of letting the masses decide on who the
(01:19):
winner is can settle your fight before you even have it.
And so here we are, at our very 6th episode.
Number six, I'm going to run outof fingers at some point.
I hope not. I mean, let's keep the 10 you
have. I'll try, but we'll have to use.
We have together. We can go up to like 20.
(01:40):
So. If we get to our 21st episode,
we'll have to bring out toes. We use symbols.
Oh, toes. We're not.
We're not. No, sorry, no toes for you.
No, not happening. I guess too far.
So this weekend we just got backfrom a trip up north and we go
up north, not regularly, but maybe a couple times a year.
(02:03):
We have family, her sister livesup there and up north, just so
you people know who maybe don't know us or live nearby in
Minnesota. We have an up north, which is
the northern half of the state and we border Canada.
So it's like mostly a giant forest at some point.
So that's where we go and we like it.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun to get away a little bit from the
(02:25):
cities for a lot of folks. I really do enjoy seeing my
sister and some wonderful friends that we have who live
again in practically Canada. So we we get to know it better
and better every time we go. And we had a really great trip
and we had some friends along too.
So it was, it was a wonderful time.
(02:46):
And it's just, it's always amazing how just getting away
just for a little bit can just, well, recharge you a little.
But then also, you know, travel is always, always its own thing.
So I don't know but. I love to travel.
I wish I could travel like all the time and just bring my life
(03:07):
and my house and my bed and my pets.
There's a lot of stuff I want tobring with.
This could be a problem. I really just want to, but what
is what is the word I'm looking for?
Where you magically are in one spot to another?
Teleport. Yes, I want to teleport.
Back to sci-fi again. Except for you're right though,
(03:29):
because you I don't think that there's so much stuff you have
to bring with that probably wouldn't work for for anything
really. So.
Unless we had a massive teleportation tonight, because
also I'd like to bring our friends sometimes.
Yeah, no offense. I want to bring you sometimes.
Well, so we were up north, whichis again what we call it.
(03:53):
It's we are north, but we're up north of our north and almost
Canada. And one of the reasons why
people go there is it's really beautiful and there's a lot of
outdoorsy things to do that thatisn't necessarily a reason why I
go up there. But this last time, for sure,
there was a lot of fun had by others.
(04:14):
The other thing we like to do when we're up north, you can do
it down South, you can do it anywhere.
But when we go up north, we liketo go off roading a little bit
and. We have a Jeep.
I, I kind of like the idea of being outside, but in a enclosed
space so that the bugs can't getto me and you can just kind of
(04:35):
drive through the woods. It's it's nice for sure.
See, and I don't mind if we put the top down on the Jeep, put a
little bug spray on and just hope we don't get eaten alive.
You have to put bug spray on andyou will still get bug bites
when you're. That's true when you're in
northern Minnesota, but. Mosquitoes are intense up north.
They are, and they're hungry. There's not that many people,
(04:57):
you know that's true. A few of the people though are
fans of our podcast, so shout out to our Up North listeners or
watchers however you're consuming.
That was great. All of you almost Canadians.
Almost Canadians good work, yes,and when we were up there, of
course, you know, we talked to acouple people about, hey, well,
we have this podcast and so you know, maybe we'll have some new
(05:19):
listeners from there as well. And I and I hope so, but there's
always a little bit of a contention between us as to what
we do when we're up there. You know, there's other, there's
a lot of cute little shops and things like that that I've never
been to that I would like to go to.
But it's, it's when we are in the day hours, it's about being
(05:44):
outside and not doing the stuff that we could do at home.
Are you talking about like the little kitschy stores?
I love kitschy stores. Those are my favorite kind of
stores. I love going into a store that
has something that you just won't find everywhere.
And we don't have a lot of that at all nearby.
It's a lot of, you know, a lot of stores that well, I love the
(06:08):
kitschy stores. While we were up there, I did
happen to go into Target. That was the only store I went
to, which is funny because even though, you know, we we drove
where we were going and I filledup with everything I thought I
needed, I still happened to haveto go to Target.
And it helped me out too, because one of the things that
(06:29):
when we go off roading, so up north in Minnesota, a lot of it
is and was iron ore mining territory, because there's iron
in the soil, it turns the soil bright orange.
So when you like, walk around upthere.
In some places, in some. Places like out in the woods, if
(06:52):
it's been very rainy and you're near 1 of the iron ore deposits,
the literally the mud is like unnaturally orange.
Like you see it and you're like,what's going on with this
radioactive Simpsons episode? Call back to one of our podcasts
anyway, like you have to get stuff that you're ready to sort
(07:15):
of ruin clothing wise. And I forgot my off roading
shoes, which are shoes that you know, like it's like your grass
cutting shoes. It's I bring those, but I forgot
mine. So part of the Target run was
Luke had to get some emergency very inexpensive shoes.
And shout out to Target for having some very inexpensive
shoe options for a guy that go walk around in the mud.
(07:36):
The other part of the Target runis that the world hates me,
nature hates me, and I forgot myallergy medication at home, so
there was no way I was going outinto the wild without having
that allergy medication. It would have been a very
miserable trip for, yeah, everyone, not just me.
So. Shout out to future potential
(07:58):
sponsor Target. Just want you guys.
Yeah, yeah, I really. Appreciate good work there and
if you ever need our help you just you hit us up.
Yeah, I appreciate you being there when I when I need you the
most when when the sinuses are all congested and you just know
that it's going to be miserable of that.
So, but just thinking about whenyou go even on a vacation or
(08:22):
something, all the things that you need to bring, you know, and
there are people who are choosing to do more than just
like, I mean, we stayed at a hotel.
There are people who go up northand they're camping.
And I mean at a hotel, at least they have your towels and they
have all these like they have a lot of the stuff that you need.
(08:44):
But when you're camping, like you have to carry all of that
stuff. So I, I'm definitely glad that
we don't go camping when we're up there because I, well, I
don't know how I would carry allthe things it.
Depends on the level of camping.There's also the new fad.
Maybe it's not new glamping where I don't even know really
(09:06):
what that means, but I feel likeit's you have, do you have like
an RV? Is it?
I don't know if that's a. Requirement, but it would be for
me or is it? Like you rent a tiny cabin that
has running. Why is that called glamping and
I don't know. We will.
Have some listeners who know what glamping is.
Please tell us in the comments because we literally don't know.
No, I have no idea. It's glamorous camping, yes,
which for you is a Does not compute I.
(09:28):
No situation. No, I don't.
There's no. Glamorous camping there's no.
Glamorous camping and you know, like just the amount of things
that you would need to make it glamorous.
I just I was before. Fergie like camping because she
is glamorous. She.
Is glamorous glamorous but beforehand before we started
(09:53):
talking this this episode has been in the discussion since
almost immediately because this camping is one of those things
that we live on different levelsof existence with I.
But before this episode, because, you know, I am the
researcher of the two of us, no one would have guessed it.
Yeah, but I was looking and there were a few things that I I
(10:17):
looked at. And one of the things I was
looking at was it was talking about 30 essential items for
camping. And I that sounds.
Like a lot, but it might be right, yeah.
That's a lot of things to remember.
Do you? Remember I forgot.
My, I forgot my allergy medication.
That's true. I take it every single day.
(10:38):
Yeah. And they're like you take it.
In the cities where we live, forpollen in the cities.
And then we went up into the forest, Yeah, where there's like
a lot more. There's a lot.
More of all the things that justmake make me not be able to
breathe. But like that one, like one
thing for me was that on. The list.
No. So there's. 31 essential items
(10:59):
well for. Me, there'd be a lot more than
31 because actually while I was looking at the list, most of the
items I was like, I would have never thought of ever bringing
anywhere. They just say a.
Pocket knife? I bet it did, no?
They had a all in one tool or something like that which had
lots of tools in it and but I don't know why I would need it.
(11:19):
And they also, the other thing Ithought was interesting is they
had like lighting and that that was an essential thing, like a
Lantern. No.
Like string lights and stuff. String lights, well, a.
String clip on I don't know thisis.
For glamping, no. Well, I have no idea 'cause I
have. We don't know what.
That is, I don't. I don't what else do you?
Remember, this is interesting. They had.
(11:41):
Thermal blankets thermal. Blanket.
Why would you just have a sleeping bag?
I don't. Know this is the world out there
in the woods is unknowing. The other thing I saw that they
had was well water. They had the thermal blanket and
a waterproof blanket and I don'tknow why they can't make a
(12:02):
thermal waterproof blanket and just solve both those problems,
do they think? You're camping in a lake.
Well, up north in the Boundary Waters, and it didn't say this
wasn't just for up north. This was just camping in general
anywhere and probably any place that you would go and, and there
(12:22):
was a tent and they had a hammock and and they had a
couple of items and I was like, that's pretty genius.
And I don't know if you'd need it necessarily for camping.
I object. To hammock.
I mean, I think it'd be nice, but I don't know that I'd call
it essential. What, do you guys just sit on a
rock all the time? Yeah.
Oh, that sounds pretty awful. OK.
Maybe I maybe I'm wrong I guess.They also did have like, you
(12:45):
know, a fire starter thing, which I don't, I don't know what
that thing's called, but a quickstart for Flintstick, Sure, a
Flintstick rub a little. Thing and it sparks in there.
Oh, it was. It was more sophisticated than
that. It was called like fire start a
lighter. No, no, not a lighter.
I don't know. I have no idea, 'cause again, I
(13:09):
when I go out into nature, I'm going to a hotel to go to
nature. It's a short.
Trip. Well, yeah.
Oh, it's short duration. No, I have no desire to do an
overnight outside. That's awful.
I I really don't. I don't like when there's a bug
in my house. Fair.
(13:30):
So I mean, when you're outside, there's bugs everywhere.
Well, Oh yeah, where isn't therebug I.
Mean, I guess technically that'strue.
We well, when we were off roading and we were in the woods
off roading and I don't know if anyone would I don't I consider
it in the woods. I don't know if you consider it
(13:51):
in the woods. I don't know if woods folks
would consider it in the woods. The.
Woods people. The woods people, I don't know
if they would, but it was woodsy, but there were bugs
everywhere. You can't be like, you roll down
the window, they're just in there.
There they are. Oh, those biting flies and all
sorts of just so many mosquitoes.
(14:11):
But they're just wanting to get wherever the human is and it's
you're outnumbered. A lot.
Massively outnumbered instead of, you know, like the one bug
in my house, you know, and the one bug in my house I would be
happy to like catch and set free.
And in general, I say, if you'reoutside, that's where you live
(14:34):
and I don't need to kill you. But I am, I am murderous when it
comes to mosquitoes for sure. I just like, that's the one
thing that I'm like, I have 0 sympathy for you.
You're trying to eat me and thatlittle.
Vampire. Aren't they like the?
Deadliest creature I think. Technically, yes, yeah.
They spread all sorts of awful diseases.
(14:55):
I they're, they're horrible, horrible.
And you know, the other thing too with being outside is, you
know, the weather's unpredictable, right?
Like you can plan, you know, months in advance cause a lot of
times you have to if you're going camping or something like
that, which I don't do, but you have to plan that.
(15:15):
And where we would be going in the up N Minnesota is like it,
it could be snowing, it could beraining, who knows.
When we were there, there was like some sort of pretty large
storm system that went through. We didn't necessarily hear, but
if we were out camping our tent would have gotten really wet.
(15:39):
That's true. But we got to stay nice and dry.
But I think there were like severe storms.
I have no idea really what happened 'cause I was in the
nice we did. Have fire alarms for no reason
we. Did that that happened at our
hotel but it wasn't. I would definitely prefer a fire
alarm to having a tent that is soaked in severe thunderstorm,
(16:03):
torrential rain type of type of scenario that they were talking
about which you could not plan for seven months in advance.
It's just weather be weather. I don't know.
I haven't done any research as you pointed out.
I don't know. I know that they make like
different types of like base, like stuff you put under your
(16:25):
tent, like there's always a tarp.
So maybe they make like hardcoretarp, like if you're going
during the rainy season or something.
We have campy friends we could ask them.
We do have our friends who camp and every once in a while they
are really curious and if we'll go with them.
And the answer from me is alwaysno, not happening.
(16:50):
If there's a hotel nearby, I will meet you wherever it is
that you are. But I like to sleep in a bed.
Beds are nice. I I.
Really like beds I like I like electricity a lot I like showers
oh that's the other thing one ofthe essential 30 items was a
(17:12):
portable hot shower and I I it was this is for.
Glamping. It looked like a a like a
freaking IV bag that it said it was heated by the sun.
Sun heated. By the sun I was.
Blocking ears. She was like.
This. Yeah, Yep.
Sorry, trying to get volts. Over here.
(17:33):
Heated by the solar. Heated.
This is for sure glamping. I've been camping a bunch of
times so far. Zero of the things you mentioned
are on the list. So you didn't have like one of
those cooler picnic table combos?
A what it looks. Like a really bad, it was a
(17:53):
cooler where you had like you, you moved some of the things and
it turned into a cooler. Table combo, yeah.
Yeah, I mean. OK so I've done different types
of camping. Admittedly all of this was when
I was younger, but. The world has changed,
certainly. I'm sure.
But like I've done some BoundaryWaters camping and like you have
(18:17):
to carry physically all of your gear and there's no car or
motorized boat available to get you to the places you're going
to go. So you have a canoe and you have
huge backpacks. So like you're not carrying a
cooler on your back or a picnic table or a solar powered shower
(18:41):
or like I said it. Looks like AIV bag OK.
I have done camping where we've brought like, you know,
inflatable air mattresses and coolers and stuff because
there's campsites that you can drive up to and then you walk a
little bit to the campsite itself.
Maybe that would fit some of these items.
But I've yet so far I'm like I think I'm old for 0 for however
(19:05):
many of the things you said on any camping thing that I've done
or been a part of. There was special toilet paper,
which really isn't toilet paper if you don't have a toilet.
Well, that's true. Then it's just, well, I guess I
was going to say bathroom tissue, no.
There's no back. Just butt wipes at that point,
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I thought that was
(19:27):
interesting. I would have never thought that
you need a special kind of toilet paper.
Yeah. There has to be no toilet.
There is no toilet. Biodegradable, compostable,
something like that. I mean if.
There's not even a toilet. Why not even?
A porta potty I. Oh and those are awful.
I hate porta potties. I'm pretty everyone.
Hates those. I know they're awful.
I mean every once in a while youmight find one that's like
(19:49):
fresh, never been used or or whatever, I don't know, freshly
cleaned or the beginning of a season.
But man, I just. I still would prefer that though
to no toilet. OK.
I would be the opposite. OK, well we then.
Again, we're different. We are.
We are built a little differently, but I would I am
(20:11):
and forever will be preferring some sort of toilet, which is
why I don't want to camp. One of the reasons I don't camp.
There's also don't like that youjust you've.
Been camping like how many timesthough?
Once. That was enough.
It was I. Didn't even know.
I probably knew that and forgot because it's like a traumatic
(20:31):
memory to think that you've onlyever been camping once and wrote
it on. I mean we.
Tented in the backyard, but not in my backyard.
We didn't have a tent, but I hada friend who had a tent and so
we would, I mean. Backyard camping still counts,
but it's not camping camping. So when I was a kid, my mom and
dad worked really hard to get meto go to a Girl Scout camp.
(20:56):
Oh. Like our our daughter who's a
Girl Scout girl. Scout camps, yes.
So that's what I did and and it was just wet, even though it
wasn't everything was damp. It was buggy where I was
camping. We did have cots and like the
cots had mice in them and all sorts of I mean, I don't know if
(21:18):
my cot did. Maybe it was a maybe it was a
myth, but I'm I'm pretty sure soyou don't.
Even know if it's true I. Think it's true 'cause you would
hear things moving in the middleof the night and that was.
Very normal. I don't.
Like that nature? Moves all 24 hours of the day.
I don't. I really don't want something
(21:39):
moving around me that is not trained.
OK, like. I we have a dog and a cat and
they are allowed to move around me.
They're allowed. To move but.
They also do not see my human body.
Like, OK, I get the animals whenyou're camping are really being
(21:59):
opportunistic. Like a bear wants your food and
they know that you've got curious.
A bear would be opportunist, so would a raccoon be
opportunistic? Yeah.
And my deer. A deer might be curious.
Oh. I would think a deer is
confused. They I don't, I have no idea if
they'd wanna hang out with you. But like our animals, they, they
(22:21):
know that we're gonna give them food.
And so we have a a mutual relationship there instead of
just I'm going to take from you and make sounds and and maybe I
really do like animals, but I don't wanna I don't want to have
animals that I don't know are there be there.
(22:42):
You know, that sounds not interesting and I don't want
something crawling by me. And we were.
What about? Cute little chipmunks, they're.
Cute during the day. OK, I.
Like to see animals during the day when I.
All of them at night should justgo to bed.
They. Should or like I wouldn't mind
(23:04):
watching them from a place whereI am in a.
Like the zoo? Yes and I time 0 would be nice,
but I just don't want them hanging out when I'm not
expecting I want to see them. I do really want to see them
just not at night. Raccoons are cute.
I love raccoons Bears are cute. Wolves, wolves are they look
(23:29):
like dogs. I've said that before and I'll
say it again. They're absolutely adorable.
You know it's. Not cute possums.
No. And I know that there are people
who really love possums and theydo really good things.
They eat ticks and they don't carry rabies, but they are a
little terrifying. We used to have possums at our
last house or a possum. I'm not actually sure how many
(23:53):
there were, but they really enjoyed being around.
It's they really enjoyed being around our yard.
And so we had to look at those things and they had the beady
red eyes and the long tail. I mean, they just like, yeah,
not my, not my deal, but I know that they serve an important
purpose. I wonder if they.
Visit campsites. Why wouldn't they?
(24:14):
They like they like people food.I have no.
Idea we. Had a possum at this house too
years ago and I did research to see how to not be a a good host
to possums and stuff and it wasn't in our house, he was in
our yard I guess. And so then I figured out what
you need to do to not have them move.
Them out. That is what you needed to do,
(24:35):
actually. Yeah, I assisted the.
Possum in moving out, yes. He he went very far away and
he's not come back. So but those are just like some
really good reasons. The other thing I don't I'm not
really into camping is the food thing, right.
You were talking about you, you have to bring the cooler or you
can't bring a cooler. Well, you.
(24:56):
Just have to bring stuff that, you know, like you're not
bringing like Michelin star meals with you.
You're, you know, canned, cannedgoods.
That's a, you know. Fine with canned goods.
Dried foods, dried fruit for instance, that's a good one to
bring. Camping, trail mix, stuff like
nuts and and I. Don't mind that, but I'm I don't
(25:20):
know what I'm going to want to eat in seven days or three or
however long you're camping for.And so for me like well even on
our trip like I grabbed 3 bags worth of groceries.
That's true. Because I want to ensure that I
have whatever it is that I'm needing at that time.
(25:41):
If it's sweet, if it's savory, if it's a little bit of both, if
it's juicy, like all sorts of those things.
And that would be, I mean, just bringing all of our stuff up to
the hotel seems like a lot of work.
And then you have to bring it toa campsite.
That's awful. And I, I was also 'cause I was
trying to do a little bit of research and one of the things I
(26:02):
was reading is there's like the 333 rule and the 444 rule and
the, there's all these number rules, but it's very confusing.
What's? What's what's the 333 and the
four four? It's like the.
Distance that your camp needs tobe from a trail at a minimum.
And I don't like remember if it was 300 yards, I have no 300
(26:27):
feet or three feet or what it was.
But then like it talked about building your camp into a
triangle and that that's proper.And I was like, this is so much
flipping work. But I feel like if you knew the
things, you would just know the things.
But how do you determine what's the right number to follow all
of these rules? Do you?
(26:48):
Remember the other Threes? No.
What about? The Fours, I think.
It was the same thing. They're just like now.
Now we're using. The number is that.
If you're building a square shape campsite.
No 'cause it was still only 3/4.OK, I feel.
Like if you and if you and I were to go camping, you haven't
done enough research and I will have expected that you know what
(27:10):
you're doing, but you haven't heard of any of the essential
items that they say that you must have to go camping, I mean.
If I was gonna go on a camping trip, I would certainly prepare,
but I also know that you're not coming with.
That's that's pretty true. You also don't know these rules.
I feel like there are people wholisten to camping that know all
(27:31):
of these rules. They've done the work, they're
prepared. It's not just go into the woods
and throw up a tent. That even sounds like more than
I'd want to do. I mean.
If you're at one of the campsites that's near to a
vehicle, even if you've, let's say you've hiked into the
campsite and it's even, I don't know, half a mile away, that's a
(27:53):
pretty far distance. But you could like pretty easily
within a, you know, shortish walk, get back to your vehicle
if you needed something or it wasn't an emergency.
The camping that I have in my brain, the most memorable that
I've done in my life is the one where literally we like went
into the woods so far that therewas no like no outside services.
(28:19):
The only hope for rescue you would have would be like a
helicopter. There's no cell phone service.
Go. Where the only hope for rescue
is a helicopter. Well, because.
You don't plan for death or dismemberment you, you're
supposed. To plan for those things I
don't. Think so.
I feel like you're supposed to be.
Prepared for camping. This is why people die when
(28:42):
camping, because they're not prepared.
The number one reason is exposure, but I'm it's not like,
you know, does. This mean that that level of
adventure camping falls into thecategory of Luke is a daredevil.
It does. That's hilarious.
I I. Don't know, 'cause I think when
(29:03):
your kid and your parents just take you places, you don't
necessarily think that it's dangerous, but it, it is.
It's, I mean, if you look at take a look at any of the
national parks numbers, it's pretty, I mean.
I mean, I've survived a NationalPark, I should get a bumper
sticker. I mean, I I've.
Survived camping in a National Park.
(29:25):
All right, there you go. Let's TM it and add a little
logo which we're working on and put it on there.
I just it. There's just so much that you
need to do that we're I. It doesn't sound to me like you
even you'd be a bad camping partner.
That's offensive. I'm not going camping everyone.
(29:45):
I've ever camped with has not told me that I was a bad camping
partner. When was the?
Last time I went camping. Few years ish ago with our kid
at Girl Scouts. Oh I mean I OK.
Also what's the point of gettingaway to just be with a bunch of
people too? I don't understand.
This Hey, you just offended likeall of the listeners.
(30:07):
Why would you want to go be withpeople like?
Everybody, it's like, oh, it's so great to get away from it
all, but then they're campsites and there's like hundreds of
people around and you're like, there's like hundreds.
Of people that they book. Out you.
Have been camping as you admitted one time.
And. Whatever happened was
(30:28):
impressionable enough for you tonever, ever want to do it again.
And I'm telling you as a person who is not even an experienced
camper, but certainly more experienced than you.
Like, there are not ever hundreds of people camping with
you. Unless you're going to one of
these like it's a music festivaland it's near the woods, so all
the people are going to bring a tent.
(30:50):
That's not what we're talking about.
Most. Campsites have campsites and
they're like numbered and they're like sub 2025, maybe 30
and that's like it. I don't understand what you just
said about the. The sites and they're like
spread out over a so if. There's 30 sites and you have a
family of five. There's 150, no?
(31:10):
No, but they spread them out. It's not like they're it's row
houses in San Francisco or something.
It's like each campsite is just far enough away from the other
that like, you might be able to see their campfire at night, but
you're not like hearing their conversations or watching them
cook their food or, you know, this is.
No different than if I go to a hotel where there's 150 people
(31:33):
and I see that they exist, but I'm not paying attention to
that. Actually a lot different I.
I don't know. I don't know.
I just, I really think that there's so much more to what
you're saying than just the and what people say about that whole
simplicity of being out there and the nature and all of that.
You can visit nature, 'cause I do this.
(31:54):
Yeah, you. Can and.
Leave. You can.
That's what I like to do. That's true.
The staying there overnight and it's just, it's so much work you
were talking about. You can go back to your car and
get something if you wanted, right?
If I went back to my car, I'm leaving.
You're gone. Why?
Would I have just walked three hours to get back to my car?
(32:14):
Just It's fine. I just go home.
Go home. Amber, you're not.
You don't need to be there. I really don't want to do that
at all. So.
So, Luke, let me ask you a question.
And now, the moment you've all been waiting for in this corner,
(32:35):
we have Amber claiming to weigh in at 135 lbs.
And today she brings a little side eye which she might need
today. In this corner we have Luke
claiming to weigh in at 185 lbs with beautiful, glorious red
(32:55):
beard. It's red.
And he is coming in today at 3 losses and two wins.
And he's gonna. Trying to catch up.
I I, you know, if you ever get into one of those fights for
you, like I know I might lose. This might be his, his leveling
(33:20):
playing field here. But really, the real thing is
Luke, let me ask you a question.Go ahead is.
Camping a vacation? Does camping count as a
vacation? Yeah, absolutely.
Not even a question. I mean, so we've discussed some
(33:41):
of the insurance and outs and potentially hilarious essential
items that you need to bring. But I think I mean like 1, by
definition of vacation, I think for most people is leaving your
normal life, not even necessarily that far away, but
geographically you go somewhere else and you do something else
(34:06):
for a short amount of time anywhere from who knows, a few
days to a week or or more. I mean, you know, some people
are able to take multi week longvacations.
And but more importantly than the specifics of it, I think
that camping has been and will continue to be a vacation for
(34:29):
most people. Maybe, I mean maybe even more
than like a vacation that you would consider a vacation
because in camping, you're not only getting away from the
normal stuff like work and school and typical obligations,
but you're leaving the quote trappings of modern life behind
(34:53):
intentionally. You're like saying, OK, I don't
want electricity and a roof overmy head and I and I don't want
running water and I don't want city lights.
I want to go far enough away so that I can pitch a tent in the
wood in the quiet of nature and at night fall asleep to the
(35:13):
sound of the trees swishing in the wind and the various life
outside that's scurrying about or buzzing through the air.
The call of an owl, for instance, is pretty cool to
hear. And then when you wake up and
you enjoy your day, you're goingto do it just the simplest way
you can, which is you're going to strap your boots on and go
(35:37):
for a hike. You're going to go find a nice
body of water somewhere you might maybe be camping where
there's a canoe or a kayak and you're going to, you know, have
a little water time or you're going to like intentionally plan
out other stuff people do while they're camping.
There's so many options. And you're going to enjoy the
(35:58):
other things that are normal about camping, like campfires.
Who doesn't make AI mean? Who doesn't like a nice wood
fire? And you know, you've got like a
little camp stove and you make your simple meal and there's not
a lot of fancy to it. You could bring a couple of
seasonings, but you're not you're not going to bring your
whole kitchen lamp, dude. And.
(36:22):
Your salt? Yeah.
And pepper, sure. And other stuff.
I mean, you can obviously bring more and I mean, I think for a
lot of people it is that it's getting away.
It's getting to a place where your cell phone doesn't work
anymore. And you know what you're going
to do at night after the the activity of the day has happened
(36:43):
and you're not yet quite at bedtime.
Maybe you have a like a little camp light Lantern and you read
a little book. Maybe you have a quiet
conversation with a loved one and you talk about life and the
future and you know you do that while you're encompassed in the
stars and, and it's just a, it'sa magical experience.
(37:06):
It really is. Magical experience.
So lutely. Magical experience.
I mean, I've been to the Magic Kingdom.
OK. That's a magical experience.
That's not camping. No, no.
But I mean, like, this does not sound like a vacation to me.
All of these things you're talking about sound like work,
(37:30):
like building a fire. I can build a fire at home too,
right? Like I don't have to go anywhere
to build a fire. You were talking about food.
And maybe if you carry with you salt and pepper and another
seasoning you, you cook your ownfood, which I do that every day,
right? Well, OK, I don't do it every
(37:53):
day, but I cook a lot. I cook a lot.
So, so the food thing that's that's not vacation.
When I'm on vacation, I, I have 0 desire to cook on vacation.
And then like The Walking, you can walk anywhere.
That's not. I mean I get what you're saying,
but the point of The Walking to a campsite is to get where
(38:16):
you're going to then put up yourhousing, right?
For me on a vacation, the housing already exists.
I don't have to build a house. It exists so I if I I would
think building a house is working, not vacation it's.
A. It's a little bit of work, yeah.
It's a. Lot of bit of work and again,
(38:37):
now camping with you, I don't know 'cause you have not, You do
not know the rules of camping according to what I've learned
about camping. So I don't know that you're even
going through as much as what you should be doing and like,
again, forgetting something, then what?
Then what? You know that it's just you
don't have whatever it is you need for, again, someone like
(39:01):
me, the allergy medication, likewhat am I going to do?
Just freaking wait. That sounds awful.
Well, all of the things you say that are the nice things about
camping, being in nature, all ofthose things, looking at the
stars, having a fire, you can doall of those things on a
vacation that doesn't involve camping.
(39:23):
So the work that is needed that that is required to do the
camping is where I'm saying it'snot a vacation.
It's a choice. People make the choice to go
camping, but you've wanted me togo camping with you before and I
have no desire to take any of myvery limited although better now
(39:45):
but limited PTO, to go work harder in the woods to have a
lower quality of life, uncomfortable bed, no
electricity, no shower, terriblefood, and whatever I can carry
on my back like. No it is not.
That is not a vacation. That sounds stressful.
(40:08):
And awful just so that you can sleep like you're just looking
for all your whole time is dealing with your essential
items, right? Like your food, shelter and
clothing, right? Like that's that's what you got
a vacation. They've already done all that
for you. You don't have to think about
those things. Maybe you should bring your own
clothes, but you can buy clothesif you're vacationing somewhere.
(40:31):
You definitely. Want to bring your own clothes
on any vacation? Yes, but.
You don't have to worry about, you know, it's you're probably.
Not going to be able to buy any if you're camping though, no.
You're in trouble. You're in trouble if you lose
your shirt. Now you're cold.
If you lose. Your shirt, if you dropped your,
if you dropped your hoodie, you know however many miles away and
(40:53):
you don't know where that is nowyou're cold.
I'm just saying camping is not aa vacation and I have 0 desire
to do it. That is clear in my case is that
camping does count as a vacation.
The last little bit that I just want to add just because let it
(41:15):
be always got 40. 5 minutes to talk about camping little.
Just a little. It's way cheaper.
That's another argument. No, because you.
Need the 30 essential items, they're not cheap.
I was looking at those items, they are not cheap.
You you're probably right, you do need other supplies and
things to go camping. Yes, and if.
(41:36):
You had to buy them every time. It would probably be expensive.
Maybe it would be as expensive as a hotel.
I don't actually know. Well, if I had to do a camping
or a staycation, I would easily 150 million percent choose a
staycation. But I.
Think. Those are my only two choices,
that being. Said I don't think a staycation
(41:57):
is a vacation. It's.
More as because like. You're staying where you are.
Yeah, but I feel like you got togo somewhere.
You're going to vacation well. Vacate.
It Yeah, I was going to say the root of the word, do an old
thing like my dad does, but we'll leave it alone.
Yeah, we'll. Let that happen.
Well, I don't know. OK, so the question has been
(42:17):
asked and the question has been answered.
Yeah. Now it's up to you folks.
Yeah, you're going to want to goto the Spotify polls if you'd
like. We've left them open a little
bit longer for folks because people have said they've wanted
to vote in there like to the official vote.
However, we do take any commentsand any I mean like when people
(42:41):
comment we on. Whatever social you're on, yeah.
We take that as official vote you send.
In an e-mail, whatever the that still counts we.
Still count that and. Unfortunately, I'm somehow
losing he's. Losing maybe?
This is the turn of the tide, this.
Could be I know a lot of a lot of friends that we have enjoy
(43:01):
camping and and the push that they always have to get me to go
is like you all would be miserable if I went so.
Miserable so. Not just me.
I mean, I would be miserable, but I would not and I would try
not to I feel like. You would be like one of those
cartoon strips in the Sunday paper from when we were kids
with like the person that got progressively worse through the
(43:23):
series of cartoons. If you ever can't.
Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I've seen this
cartoon, but I would be. It would be worse, and it would
be worse for everybody around me.
So to save everybody the anguish, I will officially hear
on the on the podcast, say I will pass on any camping
(43:43):
experience. I'll go outside with you all and
I will enjoy the wonderful things nearby, nearby the
camping places. But I will not be doing that
with you. So my answer is no, camping is
not a vacation. But you can vote on our podcast
through Spotify. I you actually can now find our
(44:07):
Spotify, our podcast on iHeartRadio, but it's not the
video, but you could watch it onSpotify and then listen to it on
iHeartRadio and see like, hey, how does it sound?
Is it any better or whatever? But share it, yes.
Download it download. It like.
It follow follow it, yes. Well, I hope you.
(44:30):
Like it too, I hope I mean. Yeah, yeah, it would be nice.
And then tune back in for sure. 100%, yeah.
To share it with everyone. If you thought of something
while listening or watching to this, or just in life in general
that you think we ought to argueabout, please send it in.
(44:52):
We love suggestions. We've already done one or two
podcasts that were someone else's idea, and you could send
them right to our e-mail, whichisarguingeverafter@gmail.com.
Yes, yes. And we thank you for tuning in
and we'll thank Quirky for giving us this wonderful theme
music. Heck.
Yeah, see y'all next time. Bye.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
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